...so this SpyGate thing..

[body88]

youre certinly entitled to your opinion..

but these statements are true..sorry
The Pats got busted for cheating
The pats got busted for violating a league rule, it happens all the time. They admitted and payed for the mistake. Belichick admitted he misinterpreted the rule at the start of all this, and never used any tapes for use during a game ( a loophole in the rule). Matt Walsh confirmed this, and Belichick was shown to be telling the truth all along. The commissioner of the NFL said taping gave teams little to no advantage, so the same guy you are basing your argument on, refuted the severity of the action! Yet you ignore this, because you are immature and won't concede any facts that may hurt your argument.
The Pats wouldn't have taped for those years if it didn't give them an advantage
Of course they would, Belichick has been known to be obsessed with winning, and thats why he won coach of the year AGAIN this year. I think they guy would invest time in farting down wind of opponenents if it could help them in the slightest. I woulden't want anyone else coaching my team. Belichick has been coming up with brilliant defensive schemes since he won the Giants two sb's against a much better offensive team.
The Pats and Bill will always be linked to Spy Gate. 
So what? Who still talks about the niners and the broncos cheating the cap? You didn't even know that happened,lol. A team is going to do something far worse than this one day, and when the NFL has it's Mitchell report, the entire sport will change. Shit, the pats went 16-0 with no tapes, they never taped anything during any of there sb wins, and they set tons of record this year with no tapes. Spygate is only being obsessed over by people like you.I can always cite the sb's and 2008 season. Its crystal clear no taping took place during these milestone years.Are the Broncos and Niners linked to cheating the cap to win sb's? Did you even know about that, lol? Pats fans are happy with there coach, and they will contend for years, no one cares what the rest fo the country thinks. If you dont like em, knock em off.
ESPN does not have an agenda against the Pats.
I've been over this a hundred times, and cited examples, it's not my fault you are thick skulled.

"how ya like them facts!"
What facts?

Exactly, ignore everything I presented, and resort to a childish reply. You lost the argument son, and you don't deal in facts. If we didn't already know you had no idea what you where talking about after my last post, we know you don't know.  Let me post it again, and you wont be able to refute it with actual facts, just insults and accusations. Bro, I don't care what you think, when the pats are in the playoffs next year contending for a title AGAIN, we will all be to busy watching football to care what you think! Belichick won coach of the year during all this nonsense, and the pats set records left and right, the only people who care about spygate are people like you. Lets take another look at the post that exposed you. Take a stab at refuting it with some facts, although aside from your times article, I don't think you know to much about the case




Let me know when you are going to respond to my post above, and come at me with some actual facts - ( not OPINIONS you pass of as facts . Again, the fact that you said " Fans of the Pats who take what Bill said as gospel and cant see him as a man who was caught and trying to save his legacy reminds me of a peacock with its head in the sand ignoring the truth. but hey fan is not short for fanatic for nothing right. ", proves you have no idea what you are talking about. Atheist, Bill Belichick said he misinterpreted the rule he broke. Belichick said this since day one. Matt Walsh then came out and said the patriots never used any of the tapes during any games - validating every single word Belichick said from the start. Bro, your above post is just flat out false, just like most of the things you claim in regards to this topic.


Belichick said he misinterpreted the rule he broke, and Matt Walsh confirmed this. Bill said this from day one, apologized and took his punishment.

The rule Belichick broke, doesn't say you cannot use signals for scouting use later on.

Roger Goodel said that the reason other teams did not tape signals, was because the impact was minimal. he also said the pats gained NO competitive advantage from the jets tape.

Belichick employs every single advantage he can get - ( no matter how tiny), and thats why he is one of the best coaches ever. The guy said he effed up with the definition of a rule, which was validated by the guy who called him out. Shit, it's right in front of your eyes, nothing more.

Bill parcels, Jimmy Johnson and Art Rooney Jr are just a few of the MANY actual NFL people who said this was not a big deal, and was being blown out of proportion.

Stealing signs is not illegal or cheating

ESPN is STILL talking about this, even after it's pretty obvious this thing should have been over when the pats where punished. Spygate two was proven a lie, and the media outlet pushing the possibility of it the hardest was ESPN. Sal pal Antonio was one of the most critical, and vocal people in the media regarding the rams accusations. Numerous times he hinted to the pats being punished. The story was proven to be 100 percent fiction.

Matt Walsh was proven to have some serious holes in his NY times story, by the JETS current qb coach.


The pats never taped a sb opponent or walk though


The pats went 16 - 0 with no camera - The best NFL season ever.


Matt Walsh Illegally taped conversaton with Scott Pioli, lied on his resume and planted blender blades in his college buddy's girlfriends bed. He was also extremely upset over being fired for poor job performance.


Tell me which one is a lie, with actual proof. Every single think I said can be backed up with proof, not claims from a newspaper article ( which where proven to be iffy at best by the jets current qb coach).

[ATHEIST]

youre certinly entitled to your opinion..

but these statements are true..sorry

The Pats got busted for cheating
The Pats wouldnt have taped for those years if it didnt give them an advantage
The Pats and Bill will always be linked to Spy Gate.

ESPN does not have an agenda against the Pats.

 "how ya like them facts!"

BOD your reading comprehension needs some work. in your post reply you basically agreed to all my statements but the last one regarding espn.
you keep referring to the SB walk through tape which i have never accused them of doing. when the news came out, i doubted it and never accused them of doing it. yet you keep using it to support your argument. i think i asked you six times previously to find a post of mine in which i accused the Pats of taping the SB walk through.

another thing, could you please stop altering my posts. if your going to reply to a post of mine and want to use my quotes, do it in your account and not mine. i thought we went through this already. posting in my post implies that i wrote what you typed.

Atheist, Bill Belichick said he misinterpreted the rule he broke. Belichick said this since day one.

Belichick said he misinterpreted the rule he broke, and Matt Walsh confirmed this. Bill said this from day one, apologized and took his punishment.

yes his "misinterpretation" of the rule he broke was against nfl policy and he was punished. you even agree by using the term yourself "broke the rule". which coincides with my first statement that they cheated. you can call it a "misinterpretation" if you like but its still illegal. that was my point. your inability to see this only exemplifies your incapability to be objective.

The rule Belichick broke, doesn't say you cannot use signals for scouting use later on.

youre correct. but thats not what he was punished for. he was punished for taping signals. this statement by yourself doesnt support your argument being that its not relative to the purpose or punishment of the issue. you are using examples of what the tapes could be used for which isnt the subject. the fact is that he taped signals which is illegal. the intent in which he used them is not the issue, its secondary at most. get it? i ask you to please respond to this...

Roger Goodel said that the reason other teams did not tape signals, was because the impact was minimal.

you use this to support your argument which is fine however you also admit that it was advantageous by saying this..

Belichick employs every single advantage he can get - ( no matter how tiny), and thats why he is one of the best coaches ever.

first you admit that other teams dont tape signals which is exactly what the pats got busted for in other words the pats were the only ones doing it according to roger. (im using what roger said in your statement above)
you also admit that taping the signs was somewhat advantageous being that Bill uses every advantage he can get. so we can conclude that the taping of the tapes gave the pats an advantage, which is what my stance was all along. supporting my statement that the pats would not have done what they did had it not given them an upper hand. in conclusion, taping signals was advantageous and also illegal. do you disagree? please respond.

Bill parcels, Jimmy Johnson and Art Rooney Jr are just a few of the MANY actual NFL people who said this was not a big deal, and was being blown out of proportion.

you say few of the many..can you provide the names of the "many"? and what they said, just curious. more importantly the fact that bill, jimmy and art said it was blown out of proportion dose not mean it was not advantageous to bellichick right? i mean you already admitted that it was somewhat advantageous to bellichick.  whether parcells, jimmy and art feel its blown out of proportion is subjective to them. what we do know is that it was important enough to belichick to continue to do so for as long as he did it after he was warned to stop.  do you disagree? if you do please respond.

Stealing signs is not illegal or cheating

Bod you are EXACTLY correct! but, did the pats get punished for stealing signs. yes or no?
no they did not. they got punished for taping signs. thats the issue. pretty black and white there. why do you say stealing signs is not illegal or cheating? thats obvious. its also just as obvious that thats exactly not what they got punished for. please respond.

ESPN is STILL talking about this, even after it's pretty obvious this thing should have been over when the pats where punished. Spygate two was proven a lie, and the media outlet pushing the possibility of it the hardest was ESPN. Sal pal Antonio was one of the most critical, and vocal people in the media regarding the rams accusations. Numerous times he hinted to the pats being punished. The story was proven to be 100 percent fiction.

probably because (my opinion) the pats have won a few championships. like i previously stated, if any other champions like the bulls teams, the packers, or the colts did the same thing the pats did espn would be all over that also. had it been the pacers, texans, or chiefs it wouldnt be as important. "heavy lies the crown" meaning if your on top, standards are different and thats expected.
if youre so upset with the way espn handles its business, you dont have to watch them correct? but somehow i think you will continue to tune in 

Matt Walsh was proven to have some serious holes in his NY times story, by the JETS current qb coach.

no one said he was a boy scout. i mean he is golf pro now for petes sake. all i did was post a quote he said to the ny times. supporting my statement that the pats wouldnt have taped all those times if it wasnt advantageous. forrest from the trees my friend.

The pats never taped a sb opponent or walk though

did i ever say they did? please find where i did. from the get go i wanted to wait for the final conclusion. also espn never said they did either the only news outlet to do so was the boston post. thats why the boston post was the only one to issue an apology.

The pats went 16 - 0 with no camera - The best NFL season ever.

thats not the best nfl season ever. they lost the super bowl. im sure any team would rather go 9-7 and win the SB. but they were a damn good team and yes w/out taping.

Matt Walsh Illegally taped conversaton with Scott Pioli, lied on his resume and planted blender blades in his college buddy's girlfriends bed. He was also extremely upset over being fired for poor job performance.

ok and bill belichick got busted for cheating or as you would rather say "misinterpreting" the rule.. whats your point? matts character doesnt discount what bill was punished for does it? matt could have ten DUI's and spygate would still have happened.

feel free to respond if you wish. if you do so though again please dont post in under my name. also stop saying i dont respond to your posts, the last time i did you erased it. accidentally yes but i did, and you erased it. so forgive me if im hesitant to have the same thing happen. if youre going to quote me, please do so   
in the appropriate manner, this will avid the same mistake.

lastly, congratulation and good luck in the finals, im pulling for the Celtics.

[body88]

Athiest, I have not "altered" any of your posts. I explained to you what happened with that weeks ago. Again, your claims of me altering your posts, or insinuating I am editing what you say is not accurate. I have not touched any of your posts in this thread. Stick to the topic, and stop ignoring parts of my posts. Thats called cherry picking.


That said, I will be happy to answer your post, AFTER you take the time to answer the question I posed to you - ( that you have been ignoring for this entire thread).

You said : "Fans of the Pats who take what Bill said as gospel and cant see him as a man who was caught and trying to save his legacy reminds me of a peacock with its head in the sand ignoring the truth. but hey fan is not short for fanatic for nothing right." .

Bill Belichick stated that he misinterpreted the rule he broke, and he was sorry for doing it. Belichick stated, that since the rule says you cannot use tapes of signals DURING a game, he was under the impression that you could use those tapes for scouting purposes later - ( like NFL teams do with other methods of logging signals). It was a mistake Belichick made, and he payed the price. Belichick was scoffed at for this claim, and called a lier by all those who opposed the patriots. Matt Walsh comes out, is found to have nothing new regarding this case, and backs up everything Bill claimed when this whole thing went down. Walsh states that the patriots never did any taping during any sb's, and they never used any of the tapes during any games. Well, seems to me that Belichick is the only one who was without a doubt telling the truth. Walsh has had many holes put in his stories by several coaches who worked with him. Explain to me how taking Belichicks word as gospel is a bad thing? Every single statement Belichick made was backed up by the man who called him out. Atheist, it's clear to me that you have not followed this case. Painting this case with a broad brush to prove your points is laughable, the case if much more complex than your one liners of "facts" you posted.

I never refuted that what the pats did was wrong. I have said this whole thing has been blown wayyy out of proportion. I have the stance that Belichick and co made a mistake trying to get every edge they could - ( not matter how small), and this whole thing is driven by hatred for Belichick, and jealousy over the pats constantly winning. I say this offense is not a big deal, because the commissioner of the NFL, several prominant coaches, and many players have flat out said taping signals gives you a very limited advantage. Having played the game, I would agree. Not to mention, stealing signals is perfectly legal. If the patriots had used those tapes DURING games, then you might have a point, but they didn't and that is the whole premise of the rule! These claims that the pats have some secret formula cooked up to tape signals, and Belichick is only a good coach due to video taping are laughable. The man won two titles for the giants long ago, was proven to have never taped a thing in the playoffs or for a sb, and led him team to the only undefeated regular NFL season in history last year. This cheaters moniker, and taint is only important to people like you, and when the pats lay the wood to your team next year, you will have a reason to explain away your teams lack of performance. Just call the pats cheaters!

Here is an example of a typical Athiest argument.

Athiest : The pats never would have taped if it didn't give them a big competative advantage. People who believe Belichick have their heads in the sand - (paraphrasing)..

Body : The head of the NFL, several former NFL coaches, team owners and the patriots have stated that taping signals has little to no value. Matt Walsh also confirmed Belichicks misinterpretation of the rules, and confirmed his explanation and apology for making a mistake..

I deal in facts, and testimony from people directly involved in this case, you deal with your OPINION. The fact is Belichick is being taken to the woodshed, because he is NOT a likable guy, and the patriots have won so much over the last 8 years. This whole thing has been taken far and beyond what it should have, and it's more about cutting a guy down, than actual love for the game. If that where the case all these same "critics" would be leading the charge to clean up the NFL, yet only the PATS are the target for all this venom. Goodel doles out a harsh punishment, and all the haters talk about how serious this charge is, Goodel then states that taping gives teams a minimal advantage, Belichick is PROVEN to have been telling the truth all along, and everyone screams cover up. I love this stuff, just gives the patriots fuel to win as much as they can. Watch out for them in 2008, the already good defense, has been improved greatly. They will be better than last year, mark it down.

[ATHEIST]

Athiest, I have not "altered" any of your posts. I explained to you what happened with that weeks ago. Again, your claims of me altering your posts, or insinuating I am editing what you say is not accurate. I have not touched any of your posts in this thread. Stick to the topic, and stop ignoring parts of my posts. Thats called cherry picking.


That said, I will be happy to answer your post, AFTER you take the time to answer the question I posed to you - ( that you have been ignoring for this entire thread).

i asked you not to alter my posts in that you are posting under my handle. take this for example..

Posted by: body88
Insert Quote
Quote from: ATHEIST on May 30, 2008, 05:01:39 PM

youre certinly entitled to your opinion..

but these statements are true..sorry
The Pats got busted for cheating
The pats got busted for violating a league rule, it happens all the time. They admitted and payed for the mistake. Belichick admitted he misinterpreted the rule at the start of all this, and never used any tapes for use during a game ( a loophole in the rule). Matt Walsh confirmed this, and Belichick was shown to be telling the truth all along. The commissioner of the NFL said taping gave teams little to no advantage, so the same guy you are basing your argument on, refuted the severity of the action! Yet you ignore this, because you are immature and won't concede any facts that may hurt your argument.
The Pats wouldn't have taped for those years if it didn't give them an advantage
Of course they would, Belichick has been known to be obsessed with winning, and thats why he won coach of the year AGAIN this year. I think they guy would invest time in farting down wind of opponenents if it could help them in the slightest. I woulden't want anyone else coaching my team. Belichick has been coming up with brilliant defensive schemes since he won the Giants two sb's against a much better offensive team.
The Pats and Bill will always be linked to Spy Gate. 
So what? Who still talks about the niners and the broncos cheating the cap? You didn't even know that happened,lol. A team is going to do something far worse than this one day, and when the NFL has it's Mitchell report, the entire sport will change. Shit, the pats went 16-0 with no tapes, they never taped anything during any of there sb wins, and they set tons of record this year with no tapes. Spygate is only being obsessed over by people like you.I can always cite the sb's and 2008 season. Its crystal clear no taping took place during these milestone years.Are the Broncos and Niners linked to cheating the cap to win sb's? Did you even know about that, lol? Pats fans are happy with there coach, and they will contend for years, no one cares what the rest fo the country thinks. If you dont like em, knock em off.
ESPN does not have an agenda against the Pats.
I've been over this a hundred times, and cited examples, it's not my fault you are thick skulled.

"how ya like them facts!"
What facts?

stop posting under my handle. this was not my original post, you added to it regardless. additions to my original post, under my handle made by you is an alteration of my posts. what dont you get? are you going to now say you "misinterpreted" what i was saying? oh how original..

 

That said, I will be happy to answer your post, AFTER you take the time to answer the question I posed to you - ( that you have been ignoring for this entire thread).

Bod i responded to all of your questions per your quotes and it was erased accidentally by you. in my previous post from yesterday i did the same thing. you have never responded to any of my statements what so ever. im not about to continually answer all your questions w/out you doing the same. its about time you started practicing what you preach.

and seriously stop with your silly "conspiracy theory/ agenda" against the Pats you sound ridiculous.

[body88]

i asked you not to alter my posts in that you are posting under my handle. take this for example..

Posted by: body88
Insert Quote
Quote from: ATHEIST on May 30, 2008, 05:01:39 PM

youre certinly entitled to your opinion..

but these statements are true..sorry
The Pats got busted for cheating
The pats got busted for violating a league rule, it happens all the time. They admitted and payed for the mistake. Belichick admitted he misinterpreted the rule at the start of all this, and never used any tapes for use during a game ( a loophole in the rule). Matt Walsh confirmed this, and Belichick was shown to be telling the truth all along. The commissioner of the NFL said taping gave teams little to no advantage, so the same guy you are basing your argument on, refuted the severity of the action! Yet you ignore this, because you are immature and won't concede any facts that may hurt your argument.
The Pats wouldn't have taped for those years if it didn't give them an advantage
Of course they would, Belichick has been known to be obsessed with winning, and thats why he won coach of the year AGAIN this year. I think they guy would invest time in farting down wind of opponenents if it could help them in the slightest. I woulden't want anyone else coaching my team. Belichick has been coming up with brilliant defensive schemes since he won the Giants two sb's against a much better offensive team.
The Pats and Bill will always be linked to Spy Gate. 
So what? Who still talks about the niners and the broncos cheating the cap? You didn't even know that happened,lol. A team is going to do something far worse than this one day, and when the NFL has it's Mitchell report, the entire sport will change. Shit, the pats went 16-0 with no tapes, they never taped anything during any of there sb wins, and they set tons of record this year with no tapes. Spygate is only being obsessed over by people like you.I can always cite the sb's and 2008 season. Its crystal clear no taping took place during these milestone years.Are the Broncos and Niners linked to cheating the cap to win sb's? Did you even know about that, lol? Pats fans are happy with there coach, and they will contend for years, no one cares what the rest fo the country thinks. If you dont like em, knock em off.
ESPN does not have an agenda against the Pats.
I've been over this a hundred times, and cited examples, it's not my fault you are thick skulled.

"how ya like them facts!"
What facts?

stop posting under my handle. this was not my original post, you added to it regardless. additions to my original post, under my handle made by you is an alteration of my posts. what dont you get? are you going to now say you "misinterpreted" what i was saying? oh how original..

 
Bod i responded to all of your questions per your quotes and it was erased accidentally by you. in my previous post from yesterday i did the same thing. you have never responded to any of my statements what so ever. im not about to continually answer all your questions w/out you doing the same. its about time you started practicing what you preach.

and seriously stop with your silly "conspiracy theory/ agenda" against the Pats you sound ridiculous.

Er, I qouted your post, and added my rebuttal in MY post. I never added anything to your original post, only to MINE after it was qouted. If you look above at your original post, you will see there is no additions to the post You made, only in my QUOTED post. Your original post is still there, and last edited by YOU. Thats what happens when you hit qoute, instead of modify! I see you are still yapping about issues without checking the facts 

Haha, I see you continue to sidestep the post in question, you lose. You refuse to answer any of the tough questions. you read a times article, pased of your opinion as fact, knew little to nothing about the case, and it showed when you tried to argue me. Again, your opinions are not fact. WHy don't you just answer? Here try again...

You said : "Fans of the Pats who take what Bill said as gospel and cant see him as a man who was caught and trying to save his legacy reminds me of a peacock with its head in the sand ignoring the truth. but hey fan is not short for fanatic for nothing right." .

Bill Belichick stated that he misinterpreted the rule he broke, and he was sorry for doing it. Belichick stated, that since the rule says you cannot use tapes of signals DURING a game, he was under the impression that you could use those tapes for scouting purposes later - ( like NFL teams do with other methods of logging signals). It was a mistake Belichick made, and he payed the price. Belichick was scoffed at for this claim, and called a lier by all those who opposed the patriots. Matt Walsh comes out, is found to have nothing new regarding this case, and backs up everything Bill claimed when this whole thing went down. Walsh states that the patriots never did any taping during any sb's, and they never used any of the tapes during any games. Well, seems to me that Belichick is the only one who was without a doubt telling the truth. Walsh has had many holes put in his stories by several coaches who worked with him. Explain to me how taking Belichicks word as gospel is a bad thing? Every single statement Belichick made was backed up by the man who called him out. Atheist, it's clear to me that you have not followed this case. Painting this case with a broad brush to prove your points is laughable, the case if much more complex than your one liners of "facts" you posted.

[ATHEIST]

Bod your desperation at this point is very amusing  . like i said before i responded to your questions twice, once it was erased by you. then i did the same thing yesterday. you still have yet to answer any of mine. and for whatever reason you cant seem to understand that adding to my post under my handle is an adjustment. my original post did not include your rebuttal which i highlighted in green. cant believe i have to explain this to you seriously.

Quote from: ATHEIST on May 30, 2008, 05:01:39 PM   **notice here it says Quote from Atheist** 

youre certinly entitled to your opinion..

but these statements are true..sorry                     **you made your rebuttal(green) in my post, under my handle hence my original post was altered**
The Pats got busted for cheating               
The pats got busted for violating a league rule, it happens all the time. They admitted and payed for the mistake. Belichick admitted he misinterpreted the rule at the start of all this, and never used any tapes for use during a game ( a loophole in the rule). Matt Walsh confirmed this, and Belichick was shown to be telling the truth all along. The commissioner of the NFL said taping gave teams little to no advantage, so the same guy you are basing your argument on, refuted the severity of the action! Yet you ignore this, because you are immature and won't concede any facts that may hurt your argument.
The Pats wouldn't have taped for those years if it didn't give them an advantage
Of course they would, Belichick has been known to be obsessed with winning, and thats why he won coach of the year AGAIN this year. I think they guy would invest time in farting down wind of opponenents if it could help them in the slightest. I woulden't want anyone else coaching my team. Belichick has been coming up with brilliant defensive schemes since he won the Giants two sb's against a much better offensive team.
The Pats and Bill will always be linked to Spy Gate. 
So what? Who still talks about the niners and the broncos cheating the cap? You didn't even know that happened,lol. A team is going to do something far worse than this one day, and when the NFL has it's Mitchell report, the entire sport will change. Shit, the pats went 16-0 with no tapes, they never taped anything during any of there sb wins, and they set tons of record this year with no tapes. Spygate is only being obsessed over by people like you.I can always cite the sb's and 2008 season. Its crystal clear no taping took place during these milestone years.Are the Broncos and Niners linked to cheating the cap to win sb's? Did you even know about that, lol? Pats fans are happy with there coach, and they will contend for years, no one cares what the rest fo the country thinks. If you dont like em, knock em off.
ESPN does not have an agenda against the Pats.
I've been over this a hundred times, and cited examples, it's not my fault you are thick skulled.

"how ya like them facts!"
What facts?

i can understand now if youre unable to respond to any of my statements, it quite apparent now that you'll be content with side steps and dances. funny how you want me to answer your questions when i already have twice. once it was erased by you, the second time was yesterday. and you fail to respond to any of mine at all, sounds like youre a sore loser. your argument is transparent, might i suggest you take your head out of the sand and join the rest of us?

[body88]

Bod your desperation at this point is very amusing  . like i said before i responded to your questions twice, once it was erased by you. then i did the same thing yesterday. you still have yet to answer any of mine. and for whatever reason you cant seem to understand that adding to my post under my handle is an adjustment. my original post did not include your rebuttal which i highlighted in green. cant believe i have to explain this to you seriously.

Quote from: ATHEIST on May 30, 2008, 05:01:39 PM   **notice here it says Quote from Atheist** 

youre certinly entitled to your opinion..

but these statements are true..sorry                     **you made your rebuttal(green) in my post, under my handle hence my original post was altered**
The Pats got busted for cheating               
The pats got busted for violating a league rule, it happens all the time. They admitted and payed for the mistake. Belichick admitted he misinterpreted the rule at the start of all this, and never used any tapes for use during a game ( a loophole in the rule). Matt Walsh confirmed this, and Belichick was shown to be telling the truth all along. The commissioner of the NFL said taping gave teams little to no advantage, so the same guy you are basing your argument on, refuted the severity of the action! Yet you ignore this, because you are immature and won't concede any facts that may hurt your argument.
The Pats wouldn't have taped for those years if it didn't give them an advantage
Of course they would, Belichick has been known to be obsessed with winning, and thats why he won coach of the year AGAIN this year. I think they guy would invest time in farting down wind of opponenents if it could help them in the slightest. I woulden't want anyone else coaching my team. Belichick has been coming up with brilliant defensive schemes since he won the Giants two sb's against a much better offensive team.
The Pats and Bill will always be linked to Spy Gate. 
So what? Who still talks about the niners and the broncos cheating the cap? You didn't even know that happened,lol. A team is going to do something far worse than this one day, and when the NFL has it's Mitchell report, the entire sport will change. Shit, the pats went 16-0 with no tapes, they never taped anything during any of there sb wins, and they set tons of record this year with no tapes. Spygate is only being obsessed over by people like you.I can always cite the sb's and 2008 season. Its crystal clear no taping took place during these milestone years.Are the Broncos and Niners linked to cheating the cap to win sb's? Did you even know about that, lol? Pats fans are happy with there coach, and they will contend for years, no one cares what the rest fo the country thinks. If you dont like em, knock em off.
ESPN does not have an agenda against the Pats.
I've been over this a hundred times, and cited examples, it's not my fault you are thick skulled.

"how ya like them facts!"
What facts?

i can understand now if youre unable to respond to any of my statements, it quite apparent now that you'll be content with side steps and dances. funny how you want me to answer your questions when i already have twice. once it was erased by you, the second time was yesterday. and you fail to respond to any of mine at all, sounds like youre a sore loser. your argument is transparent, might i suggest you take your head out of the sand and join the rest of us?

Wow, let me explain this to you again. Adding a rebuttel in MY post is not modifying your original post, it's QOUTING you original post and adding my rebuttel under it in MY post. I did not change a single word of your original post. No matter how much you want to make it seem like I am editing the words of YOUR post, anyone with a brain can look above, and see that is not the case. I merley QOUTED your post, and added my repsponse within the qoute under your statements. Christ, you mirror the jackels acking the Patriots over things that just dont exist. When I made the mistake of editing YOUR post a few weeks back, I hit MODIFY instead of qoute, and was writing in your post when I thought was writing in my QOUTED post. As you can see above, I added my rebuttal in MY quoted post, and your original post was never touched. No matter how much you deflect from the topic, you have been proven to base your arguments on opinion, and have little to no knowledge of the facts of this case.  You have not answered the main question I posed to you, and you couldn't if you tried. I have answered all you opinions with fact, and you answer those answers with more opinions. Athiest, your basing your entire argument on a uncoroberated newpaper article, and the opinions of a few ESPN talking heads, your argument is based on opinion.



You said : "Fans of the Pats who take what Bill said as gospel and cant see him as a man who was caught and trying to save his legacy reminds me of a peacock with its head in the sand ignoring the truth. but hey fan is not short for fanatic for nothing right." .

Bill Belichick stated that he misinterpreted the rule he broke, and he was sorry for doing it. Belichick stated, that since the rule says you cannot use tapes of signals DURING a game, he was under the impression that you could use those tapes for scouting purposes later - ( like NFL teams do with other methods of logging signals). It was a mistake Belichick made, and he payed the price. Belichick was scoffed at for this claim, and called a lier by all those who opposed the patriots. Matt Walsh comes out, is found to have nothing new regarding this case, and backs up everything Bill claimed when this whole thing went down. Walsh states that the patriots never did any taping during any sb's, and they never used any of the tapes during any games. Well, seems to me that Belichick is the only one who was without a doubt telling the truth. Walsh has had many holes put in his stories by several coaches who worked with him. Explain to me how taking Belichicks word as gospel is a bad thing? Every single statement Belichick made was backed up by the man who called him out.

[ATHEIST]

As you can see above, I added my rebuttal in MY quoted post, and your original post was never touched.

Uh youre wrong here.
Bod i think you need to get some help on this, or have someone check your work for you. you quoted my post in your response, however your rebuttel was made in my post thats why your rebuttal is in the same purple box as my post  . thats why it said;
"Quote from: ATHEIST on May 30, 2008, 05:01:39 PM"
and not quote from Bod when you referenced my post. Take a look at other posts made by Mods in other boards to see how its done correctly.

I have answered all you opinions with fact, and you answer those answers with more opinions.

prove this. youre wrong again, at least your consistant.. you have never responded to anything i have asked you to. Currently i have answered all your questions/statements twice #1 you erased and #2 on May 30. in both cases i answered every question/comment individually. still waiting for your responses i requested, hasnt happened once yet. youre getting schooled and i find it so amusing. 

Explain to me how taking Belichicks word as gospel is a bad thing? 

how its a bad thing? um because he was punished for cheating over a period of time or as you would conveniently say "misinterpreting" the rules haha 

 and the fact that you would believe taking Belichicks word as gospel is not a bad thing proves how nonobjective you are which is what i also have been saying all along, but who didnt know that already. thanks for helping me make a point 
 

[body88]

Uh youre wrong here.
Bod i think you need to get some help on this, or have someone check your work for you. you quoted my post in your response, however your rebuttel was made in my post thats why your rebuttal is in the same purple box as my post  . thats why it said;
"Quote from: ATHEIST on May 30, 2008, 05:01:39 PM"
and not quote from Bod when you referenced my post. Take a look at other posts made by Mods in other boards to see how its done correctly.
prove this. youre wrong again, at least your consistant.. you have never responded to anything i have asked you to. Currently i have answered all your questions/statements twice #1 you erased and #2 on May 30. in both cases i answered every question/comment individually. still waiting for your responses i requested, hasnt happened once yet. youre getting schooled and i find it so amusing. 
how its a bad thing? um because he was punished for cheating over a period of time or as you would conveniently say "misinterpreting" the rules haha 

 and the fact that you would believe taking Belichicks word as gospel is not a bad thing proves how nonobjective you are which is what i also have been saying all along, but who didnt know that already. thanks for helping me make a point 
 

Actually, you told me to stop posting under your handle. Posting under your handle would involve me logging in under your name, and posting. Secondly I never touched your original post. I merely quoted it, and then typed my answers under your original "facts" in MY Post. Nothing was changed, nothing was modified - in regards to what you typed in your original post. Again, I merely added my rebuttel under your statements in my QOUTED reply. If you think this is a rule violation, I suggest you PM Ron, and let him know about it so he can check it out. It's a tired point, just pm Ron and he will take care of it for you if he thinks there is a problem.

Atheist, your argument is so broad it's laughable. Parts of this thread where erased on the 30th, because it turned into a pointless clusterfuck- ( over an honest mistake). You whining and crying, and a bunch of useless slop from both sides. From now on, if you have some kind of issue with the way I mod the board,  pm Ron. He will let me know if he think there is a problem.

And finally, the best part of your post. I posed the question of trusting what Belichick said over the course of this case. Belichick stated at the start of spygate that he misinterpreted the rule he broke, and he never used any tapes during any games. He was under the impressinon that if you used tapes for scouting use in the future, it was a tactic that was acceptable. All NFL teams log signals, it was the method the pats used that got them in how water. The rule states you cannot tape signals for use during a game. Bill was called a lier, and the media ripped him a new one. THEN, your boy - ( who you base your entire argument from ) told the NFL in his interview that the pats never used any tapes during any games, validating what Bill said when this all this crap started. Secondly, when the rams rumors started, Belichick released a statement that said he had never taped any walk throughs of any practises over his career. Again, people scoffed at his statement and called the man a lier. Matt Walsh then tells the world there is no walk through tape, and the incident never happened. Please show me where Belichick was caught lying? He admitted to breaking a rule, apologized, and was validated in his claim of misinterpreting the rule by Matt Walsh himself. That's different than what you are claiming.

You said : "Fans of the Pats who take what Bill said as gospel and cant see him as a man who was caught and trying to save his legacy reminds me of a peacock with its head in the sand ignoring the truth. but hey fan is not short for fanatic for nothing right."

As I showed above, Belichick told the truth according to the NFL and Matt Walsh, he broke a rule, but he never lied about it. Please don't sidestep this question, and answer it directly. I just showed why your "he was caught cheating argument" does not hold up, in regards to what Belichick has said about this whole case from the start.

I never said I was totally objective. I said this case was blown out of proportion - ( as did the gm of your team, Bill Parcels).. I am a huge pat's fan, but I am no less objective than you, A bitter dolphins fan sick of being in the cellar of the division, and passing off your opinions as fact. You never cite anything directly from the case. Thanks for proving my point All of this is a moot point anyway, Belichick won coach of the year last year, the only people who take spygate seriously are people like you. I had beef with your original post, because you posted a bunch of hersay and claimed it was fact. Anyone who knows the case - ( not you ), knows the times article is questionable at best, due to the testimony of the Jets current qb coach. BTW, Parcells wears two rings because of Bill Belichick, looks like you have another cheater running the Dolphins. Haha, the GM of  YOUR football team has stated several times that spygate was an overblown circus act. Looks like the guy who is running your team has no clue what he is talking about 

People like to throw stones, and try to cut the pats down - But when push comes to shove, they know who will bring it on Sunday.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story;jsessionid=852CB2D7FCFAA11581579FB69B4F0679?id=09000d5d808a0063&template=with-video&confirm=true

[ATHEIST]

Actually, you told me to stop posting under your handle. Posting under your handle would involve me logging in under your name, and posting. Secondly I never touched your original post. I merely quoted it, and then typed my answers under your original "facts" in MY Post. Nothing was changed, nothing was modified - in regards to what you typed in your original post. Again, I merely added my rebuttel under your statements in my QOUTED reply. If you think this is a rule violation, I suggest you PM Ron, and let him know about it so he can check it out. It's a tired point, just pm Ron and he will take care of it for you if he thinks there is a problem.

Yes it is a tired point. i only suggest that you take a look at how other mods use quotes from other members correctly.

[ATHEIST]

Atheist, your argument is so broad it's laughable. Parts of this thread where erased on the 30th, because it turned into a pointless clusterfuck- ( over an honest mistake). You whining and crying, and a bunch of useless slop from both sides. From now on, if you have some kind of issue with the way I mod the board,  pm Ron. He will let me know if he think there is a problem.

actually my point was to highlight the fact that i directly answered all your questions on two occations. the first time it was erased by you, the second time was on the 5/31. not sure how many individual questions i have anwered in total, all i know is that everytime i do you have no response..in-ter-est-ing.

[body88]

actually my point was to highlight the fact that i directly answered all your questions on two occations. the first time it was erased by you, the second time was on the 5/31. not sure how many individual questions i have anwered in total, all i know is that everytime i do you have no response..in-ter-est-ing.

Way to ingnore the end of my post, AGAIN. In-ter-esting. Unless you are blind, you can see my responses to your OPINIONS, just read the thead. Answer the last part of my post.

[ATHEIST]

Way to ingnore the end of my post, AGAIN. In-ter-esting.

way to jump to conclusions genious , im currently at the office working, responding to the rest of your rhetoric between clients. keep your skirt on.

[body88]

way to jump to conclusions genious , im currently at the office working, responding to the rest of your rhetoric between clients. keep your skirt on.

Jump to conclusion? I would think with your current stance on spygate you would know a thing or two about that. Just as the GM of your beloved sports team stated several times on the National stage, spygate was an overblown event, with little to no importance. I agree with the Dolphins GM Bill Parcels, the man running your football team. I look forward to your response based on opinion, and not fact.


I used my lunch break today to answer your opinions, shit, I should have posted about my large turkey sub on wheat. I fully expect for you to base your response on some unproven article, that was shown to be shady by direct testimony from several people involved. Anyway, I am glued to my seat awaiting your response

[Fury]

Once a cheater, always a cheater. Bill Bellicheat strikes me as the type of guy who would steal a kid's lollipop if it would get him an extra yard on a play!

[ATHEIST]

 

And finally, the best part of your post. I posed the question of trusting what Belichick said over the course of this case. Belichick stated at the start of spygate that he misinterpreted the rule he broke, and he never used any tapes during any games. He was under the impressinon that if you used tapes for scouting use in the future, it was a tactic that was acceptable. All NFL teams log signals, it was the method the pats used that got them in how water. The rule states you cannot tape signals for use during a game. Bill was called a lier, and the media ripped him a new one. THEN, your boy - ( who you base your entire argument from ) told the NFL in his interview that the pats never used any tapes during any games, validating what Bill said when this all this crap started.

your simple rhetoric is too easy my friend and quite frankly speaks volumes about you. you keep saying that Bill never used tapes during the games, but what was he actually punished for? he was punished for taping signals, not for using tapes in during the game, i never said he used tapes during the game. show me where i said that please, you cant . stick to the facts.
 nice attempt to try and bend the truth and what i was actually saying..
and yes all teams log signals, but do all teams tape signals? no. just the Pats and they were punished for it. my point all along. stick to the facts
 thirdly you saying that my entire argument is based on Matt Walsh is also in correct. i dont even need him or what he said to prove my point. again Bod your reading comprehension needs work. go back and read my direct responses to all your questions on the 5/31 and you will see this for yourself.

Secondly, when the rams rumors started, Belichick released a statement that said he had never taped any walk throughs of any practises over his career. Again, people scoffed at his statement and called the man a lier.

another example of your inability to read and comprehend. where did i ever say there was a SB walk through tape. from the get go i doubted the existence of a tape . i have asked you NUMEROUS times to show me where i said there was a tape and you never have. PLEASE SHOW ME. again you cant. stick to the facts
 secondly you say "people scoffed" at the notion that there was not a SB tape. who exactly? what "numerous" people? do you have names? no you dont, thats why you are being so vague as to who the exact people where and what they said regarding the SB tapes.you are assuming they did.  the only media reporting of a SB tape was the Boston new paper. so what people?

You said : "Fans of the Pats who take what Bill said as gospel and cant see him as a man who was caught and trying to save his legacy reminds me of a peacock with its head in the sand ignoring the truth. but hey fan is not short for fanatic for nothing right."
As I showed above, Belichick told the truth according to the NFL and Matt Walsh, he broke a rule, but he never lied about it.

brother, taking what Bill says as gospel is retarded, you dont know him from a can of paint. you are showing your immature ignorance and putting it in lights. you can believe he didnt lie about what his intentions were for those tapes, but thats just speculation on your part taken from a guy whose word you ALREADY ADMITTED to take as gospel who was punished harshly by the Roger G, and you cant see the conflict of interest here?? hilarious.

As I showed above, Belichick told the truth according to the NFL and Matt Walsh, he broke a rule, but he never lied about it. Please don't sidestep this question, and answer it directly. I just showed why your "he was caught cheating argument" does not hold up, in regards to what Belichick has said about this whole case from the start.

So are you saying Bill didnt get caught cheating? you are sticking to your "misinterpretation" of the rules. my quote "he got caught cheating" holds up in that he was fined for the violation by the league.  again you have blinders on and it impares your ability to be rational. admitting that you are not objective on this matter is the first step, now we can work on you being logical  

I never said I was totally objective. I said this case was blown out of proportion - ( as did the gm of your team, Bill Parcels).. I am a huge pat's fan, but I am no less objective than you, A bitter dolphins fan sick of being in the cellar of the division, and passing off your opinions as fact.

again you over estimate my fan-hood to the dolphins, i am much more of a casual fan since the introduction of free agency. however, if the phins had taped signals i would be just as critical of them you can be sure of it. i certainly would call it cheating, i would except the fact and not make excuses.  nothing the Phins can do would control my emotions and make me "bitter" sorry again. i am too busy with life to become obsessed with a team anymore, i wish i wasnt. but i have more important priorities.

I had beef with your original post, because you posted a bunch of hersay and claimed it was fact. Anyone who knows the case - ( not you ), knows the times article is questionable at best,

you keep referring to the times article, i dont even need the article to prove my points. the culmination of my statements/facts are good enough. if the ny times didnt even exist, my stance would still be the same, and them being cheaters isnt even the gist of it. i find it amazing that you would be so intent on seeing things through blinders after admitting that you arent objective,thats the definition of ignorance.

BTW, Parcells wears two rings because of Bill Belichick,

a perfect example of your ignorance stating an opinion as fact. Prove to me that Parcells has two rings BECAUSE of Belichick. You cant, you can only speculate.
shooting fish in a barrel.

Haha, the GM of  YOUR football team has stated several times that spygate was an overblown circus act. Looks like the guy who is running your team has no clue what he is talking about 

on soooo? the fact that Parcells has an opinion has nothing to do with the fact that the Pats got busted for cheating now does it? He could say the Pats did nothing wrong, but the end result is the same. i dont get your correlation, those are two seperate things completely. your statement sounds like a 7th grader's response.


STILL waiting for a response to my statements..hasnt happened yet.

People like to throw stones, and try to cut the pats down - But when push comes to shove, they know who will bring it on Sunday.

yes this is very true. the Pats always bring it on sundays, thats why i enjoy watching them esp against the Jets. the fact that they hate each other makes it so entertaining.

[body88]

your simple rhetoric is too easy my friend and quite frankly speaks volumes about you. you keep saying that Bill never used tapes during the games, but what was he actually punished for? he was punished for taping signals, not for using tapes in during the game, i never said he used tapes during the game. show me where i said that please, you cant . stick to the facts.
 nice attempt to try and bend the truth and what i was actually saying..
and yes all teams log signals, but do all teams tape signals? no. just the Pats and they were punished for it. my point all along. stick to the facts
 thirdly you saying that my entire argument is based on Matt Walsh is also in correct. i dont even need him or what he said to prove my point. again Bod your reading comprehension needs work. go back and read my direct responses to all your questions on the 5/31 and you will see this for yourself.

You said : "Fans of the Pats who take what Bill said as gospel and cant see him as a man who was caught and trying to save his legacy reminds me of a peacock with its head in the sand ignoring the truth. but hey fan is not short for fanatic for nothing right."

Again you sidestep this question. Matt Walsh Confirmed everything Belichick has ever stated about this issue, and none of it was a lie. Belichick is the ONLY one who has been proven to have told the truth over the course of this entire issue. Your statement is uneducated, and incorrect.

I love how you totally ignored what I was saying in the last part of the post, AGAIN. Bill was punished for using an ILLEGAL video machine to log signals. My point was, that the RULE says you cannot tape signals for use DURING a game. Bill stated he misinterpreted the rule he broke, and he apologized for it. This notion of this complicated cheating plan is laughable. The pats lost 4 of the games they taped. Secondly, Arlen Spector said the Jets also taped signals, and one of their video guys was doing it NEXT to Walsh. Also, Jimmy Johnson said he taped signals over his entire career.You wouldn't know that because you don't know anything about this case aside from what you see on espn every few days.

nother example of your inability to read and comprehend. where did i ever say there was a SB walk through tape. from the get go i doubted the existence of a tape . i have asked you NUMEROUS times to show me where i said there was a tape and you never have. PLEASE SHOW ME. again you cant. stick to the facts
 secondly you say "people scoffed" at the notion that there was not a SB tape. who exactly? what "numerous" people? do you have names? no you don't, thats why you are being so vague as to who the exact people where and what they said regarding the SB tapes.you are assuming they did.  the only media reporting of a SB tape was the Boston new paper. so what people?

I made the sb point as part of another point, to prove that Belichick was TELLING THE TRUTH since day one about this entire mess. You might need to work on your comprehension, because you said anyone who takes belichicks word has their head in the sand. Oh wait, he said he never taped any walk through, and he was validated AGAIN in that claim. Atheist, you don't follow this case. Gregg Esterbrook, Sal Pal Antonio, The times, The Herald, Mark Sclereth, Steve Young, PFT and Bill Plaski are just a FEW of the many prominent media people slamming Belichick over the supposed rams tape.

So are you saying Bill didn't get caught cheating? you are sticking to your "misinterpretation" of the rules. my quote "he got caught cheating" holds up in that he was fined for the violation by the league.  again you have blinders on and it impares your ability to be rational. admitting that you are not objective on this matter is the first step, now we can work on you being logical 

False, I have stated Bill made a mistake, and he screwed up with a rule. Matt Walsh confirmed this, and he was punished. My stance is this whole issue is overblown, and taping signals has been proven to have little to no value. The head of the NFL said it, and several prominant NFL people - ( who I have listed agreed). Yet you keep ignoring this fact. Athiest, these people know the NFL, and they are the ones talking about how this whole thing was overblown. Mediots, and fans of rival teams are the ones making a huge stink. My beef is with the yahoos who make this out to be more than it is.

again you over estimate my fan-hood to the dolphins, i am much more of a casual fan since the introduction of free agency. however, if the phins had taped signals i would be just as critical of them you can be sure of it. i certainly would call it cheating, i would except the fact and not make excuses.  nothing the Phins can do would control my emotions and make me "bitter" sorry again. i am too busy with life to become obsessed with a team anymore, i wish i wasnt. but i have more important priorities.

Wow you are so mature and balanced 

you keep referring to the times article, i dont even need the article to prove my points. the culmination of my statements/facts are good enough. if the ny times didnt even exist, my stance would still be the same, and them being cheaters isnt even the gist of it. i find it amazing that you would be so intent on seeing things through blinders after admitting that you arent objective,thats the definition of ignorance.

You do need the times to support your opinions, and admiting I am a bit biased is not ignorant, it's the truth. You for example, refuse to admit your agenda - which is the mark of a coward. No objective fan would refer to Bill as "Belicheat" - (as you did). Thats like me calling someone a  lazy fatass, and claiming to be unbiased on the issue of obesity in America. Grind that axe!

a perfect example of your ignorance stating an opinion as fact. Prove to me that Parcells has two rings BECAUSE of Belichick. You cant, you can only speculate.
shooting fish in a barrel.

This is the best part of your post. Proof you know little to nothing about football. Belichicks defensive plans where the MAIN reason the Giants won their two early sb's. Couple that with the fact that Parcels has done NOTHING since Bill left his side, and you have the answer. I can't believe you don't know about Belichicks famous defensive plan that shut down Thurman thomas, Jim Kelly and the Bills prolific offense. Anyone who knows anything about the NFL knows that belichicks defensive plan won that game. Using the Giants/Bills sb an as example, you tell me why Parcels does not have a ring because of Belichick. Parcels is not an x and o's coach, he is a great talent evaluator and motivator, Belichicks defenses won Parcels a TON of games. Belichick is the one who pushed Parcels to draft Lawrence Taylor! The only thing your shooting is your foot.

on soooo? the fact that Parcells has an opinion has nothing to do with the fact that the Pats got busted for cheating now does it? He could say the Pats did nothing wrong, but the end result is the same. i dont get your correlation, those are two seperate things completely. your statement sounds like a 7th grader's response.

You always asking for example of who said things, and I would think the gm of your football team, and one of the greatest coaches to ever live would be a good person to cite in regards to the severity of this issue

yes this is very true. the Pats always bring it on sundays, thats why i enjoy watching them esp against the Jets. the fact that they hate each other makes it so entertaining.

Bullshit

[ATHEIST]

You said : "Fans of the Pats who take what Bill said as gospel and cant see him as a man who was caught and trying to save his legacy reminds me of a peacock with its head in the sand ignoring the truth. but hey fan is not short for fanatic for nothing right."
Again you sidestep this question. Matt Walsh Confirmed everything Belichick has ever stated about this issue, and none of it was a lie. Belichick is the ONLY one who has been proven to have told the truth over the course of this entire issue. Your statement is uneducated, and incorrect.

um first of all genious, read this paragraph you wrote. THERE IS NO QUESTION TO ANSWER. 
further more and more importantly, you are clouding the facts. Matt did nothing but confirm what Belichick DID NOT DO that however is not the issue nor is it affirmation that Bill did not tape signals, which is what he was punished for. Its already established that Bill did not use tapes DURING the game, it was never an issue, so Matt attesting to that has no revelance on the issue you and i are debating. Matt confirming that Bill did not use tapes during games is only stating the obvious being that that is not what he was punished for.  you are trying to cloud the issue, Bill was never accused of taping DURING games this has been established, so matt saying he didnt has no revelance, nice try. they are both admitting to something Bill didnt do.
and also i like how you claim that mulitple people accuse Matt of having more than questionable character and try to dismiss his legitimacy talking about what he did in college, this and that, but yet you take his word and use him as the corner stone when it comes in handy make up your mind already. cant have it both ways...you gonna reply to this?? doubt it.

I love how you totally ignored what I was saying in the last part of the post, AGAIN. Bill was punished for using an ILLEGAL video machine to log signals. My point was, that the RULE says you cannot tape signals for use DURING a game.

i love how you ignore the point. Bill wasnt punished for using the tape during the game, obviously he didnt. he was punished for taping signals..YES HE DIDNT USE TAPES DURING THE GAME, I NEVER SAID HE DID.

Bill stated he misinterpreted the rule he broke, and he apologized for it. This notion of this complicated cheating plan is laughable. The pats lost 4 of the games they taped. Secondly, Arlen Spector said the Jets also taped signals, and one of their video guys was doing it NEXT to Walsh. Also, Jimmy Johnson said he taped signals over his entire career.

You keep using "misinterpreted" the rules however you previously stated:

body88
Moderator
Getbig V
Posts: 9843
 Re: Should the Patriots give back their SB rings?
« Reply #139 on: September 13, 2007, 08:35:10 PM » Quote 
 Beli tried to expose a loophole and got nabbed. he got greedy.
Make up your mind, he couldnt have "misinterpreted" AND purposely tried to "expose" a loop hole. "exposing" cant be done while being "misinterpreted" again nice attempt and nice try..he knew what he was doing, you admitted it.

i'll finish this up when i get back. hopefully this wont be erased accicentally

[body88]

um first of all genious, read this paragraph you wrote. THERE IS NO QUESTION TO ANSWER. 
further more and more importantly, you are clouding the facts. Matt did nothing but confirm what Belichick DID NOT DO that however is not the issue nor is it affirmation that Bill did not tape signals, which is what he was punished for. Its already established that Bill did not use tapes DURING the game, it was never an issue, so Matt attesting to that has no revelance on the issue you and i are debating. Matt confirming that Bill did not use tapes during games is only stating the obvious being that that is not what he was punished for.  you are trying to cloud the issue, Bill was never accused of taping DURING games this has been established, so matt saying he didnt has no revelance, nice try. they are both admitting to something Bill didnt do.
and also i like how you claim that mulitple people accuse Matt of having more than questionable character and try to dismiss his legitimacy talking about what he did in college, this and that, but yet you take his word and use him as the corner stone when it comes in handy make up your mind already. cant have it both ways...you gonna reply to this?? doubt it.
i love how you ignore the point. Bill wasnt punished for using the tape during the game, obviously he didnt. he was punished for taping signals..YES HE DIDNT USE TAPES DURING THE GAME, I NEVER SAID HE DID.
You keep using "misinterpreted" the rules however you previously stated:

body88
Moderator
Getbig V
Posts: 9843
 Re: Should the Patriots give back their SB rings?
« Reply #139 on: September 13, 2007, 08:35:10 PM » Quote 
 Beli tried to expose a loophole and got nabbed. he got greedy.
Make up your mind, he couldnt have "misinterpreted" AND purposely tried to "expose" a loop hole. "exposing" cant be done while being "misinterpreted" again nice attempt and nice try..he knew what he was doing, you admitted it.

i'll finish this up when i get back. hopefully this wont be erased accicentally

Haha, Athiest your cheap shots about posts being erased shows the weakness in your pathetic argument!

[ATHEIST]

Haha, Athiest your cheap shots about posts being erased shows the weakness in your pathetic argument!

sure it does  nice to see you can check the boards, but not respond to my posts like usual..please dont try and change the subject.

[ATHEIST]

i just wanted to repost this along with the rest of my response so you dont ignore it like the rest.

You said : "Fans of the Pats who take what Bill said as gospel and cant see him as a man who was caught and trying to save his legacy reminds me of a peacock with its head in the sand ignoring the truth. but hey fan is not short for fanatic for nothing right."
Again you sidestep this question. Matt Walsh Confirmed everything Belichick has ever stated about this issue, and none of it was a lie. Belichick is the ONLY one who has been proven to have told the truth over the course of this entire issue. Your statement is uneducated, and incorrect.

um first of all genious, read this paragraph you wrote. THERE IS NO QUESTION TO ANSWER. 
further more and more importantly, you are clouding the facts. Matt did nothing but confirm what Belichick DID NOT DO that however is not the issue nor is it affirmation that Bill did not tape signals, which is what he was punished for. Its already established that Bill did not use tapes DURING the game, it was never an issue, so Matt attesting to that has no revelance on the issue you and i are debating. Matt confirming that Bill did not use tapes during games is only stating the obvious being that that is not what he was punished for.  you are trying to cloud the issue, Bill was never accused of taping DURING games this has been established, so matt saying he didnt has no revelance, nice try. they are both admitting to something Bill didnt do.
and also i like how you claim that mulitple people accuse Matt of having more than questionable character and try to dismiss his legitimacy talking about what he did in college, this and that, but yet you take his word and use him as the corner stone when it comes in handy  make up your mind already. cant have it both ways...you gonna reply to this?? doubt it.

I love how you totally ignored what I was saying in the last part of the post, AGAIN. Bill was punished for using an ILLEGAL video machine to log signals. My point was, that the RULE says you cannot tape signals for use DURING a game.

i love how you ignore the point. Bill wasnt punished for using the tape during the game, obviously he didnt. he was punished for taping signals..YES HE DIDNT USE TAPES DURING THE GAME, I NEVER SAID HE DID.

Bill stated he misinterpreted the rule he broke, and he apologized for it. This notion of this complicated cheating plan is laughable.

You keep using "misinterpreted" the rules however you previously stated:

body88
Moderator
Getbig V
Posts: 9843
 Re: Should the Patriots give back their SB rings?
« Reply #139 on: September 13, 2007, 08:35:10 PM » Quote 
Beli tried to expose a loophole and got nabbed. he got greedy.[/color]
Make up your mind, he couldnt have "misinterpreted" AND purposely tried to "expose" a loop hole like you said. "exposing" cant be done while being "misinterpreted" again nice attempt and nice try..Bill  knew what he was doing, you admitted it yourself. stop contradicting yourself.

I made the sb point as part of another point, to prove that Belichick was TELLING THE TRUTH since day one about this entire mess. Oh wait, he said he never taped any walk through, and he was validated AGAIN in that claim. Atheist, you don't follow this case. Gregg Esterbrook, Sal Pal Antonio, The times, The Herald, Mark Sclereth, Steve Young, PFT and Bill Plaski are just a FEW of the many prominent media people slamming Belichick over the supposed rams tape.

you used the sb tape to back up your theory that he was telling the truth, i say again no one but the boston paper claimed there was a sb tape thats why they were the ONLY one to offer an appology. the boys at espn never claimed there was a sb tape, they only reported that the boston paper claimed there was one and there was no confirmation at the time. i asked you before and i'll ask you again find me where espn claimed they have a source that informed them there was a sb tape. if espn reported it, they would have appologized just like the boston paper..find it.
p.s there is no conspiracy.

My stance is this whole issue is overblown, and taping signals has been proven to have little to no value. The head of the NFL said it, and several prominant NFL people - ( who I have listed agreed). Yet you keep ignoring this fact. Athiest, these people know the NFL, and they are the ones talking about how this whole thing was overblown.

PROVEN to have little to no value? then why tape for all that time? 
PROVEN to have little to no value? then why such the harsh penalty?
PROVEN to have little to no value? then why did Jimmy Johnson do it all those years?
yes it was sooo invaluble...obviously.. again i just prove youre wrong. why did jimmy do it then?

Wow you are so mature and balanced 

you will be to when you move out of your parents house..

You do need the times to support your opinions, and admiting I am a bit biased is not ignorant, it's the truth. You for example, refuse to admit your agenda - which is the mark of a coward. No objective fan would refer to Bill as "Belicheat" - (as you did). Thats like me calling someone a  lazy fatass, and claiming to be unbiased on the issue of obesity in America. Grind that axe!

think so? take the times out and my stance is still more than revelant. go ahead..
"belicheat" was used to manipulate you, which obviously it did. +1  sorry i hurt your feelings

This is the best part of your post. Proof you know little to nothing about football. Belichicks defensive plans where the MAIN reason the Giants won their two early sb's. Couple that with the fact that Parcels has done NOTHING since Bill left his side
 
You always asking for example of who said things, and I would think the gm of your football team, and one of the greatest coaches to ever live would be a good person to cite in regards to the severity of this issue
Bullshit

again you contradict yourself, Parcells has done "NOTHING" since Belichick left his side? everyteam he has coached he turned around, go tell anyone who knows anything about football that Parcells has done "NOTHING" since Belichick left and they'll laugh you out of the room.
regarding the contradiction, you say Parcells has done "NOTHING" since Belichick left, that was almost 20 years ago or so..but in the same post you say Parcells is one of the greratest ever? again he cant accomplish "NOTHING" since Belichick left and be one of the greatest ever to live.. make up your mind.
you must like the taste of your foot...

This is the best part of your post. Proof you know little to nothing about football. Belichicks defensive plans where the MAIN reason the Giants won their two early sb's. Couple that with the fact that Parcels has done NOTHING since Bill left his side, and you have the answer.

a perfect example of you stating your opinion as fact. brother.

Bod youre hilarious

[body88]

sure it does  nice to see you can check the boards, but not respond to my posts like usual..please dont try and change the subject.

Yes, I was going to answer all your nonsense before I went to watch the Celtics in the FINALS. Haha, kinda busy drinking and having a good time. I'll answer your posts when I get a little time. You hurl cheap shots, because your argument is weak. If I have learned one thing about you, it's that you dont know much about pro football

[ATHEIST]

Yes, I was going to answer all your nonsense before I went to watch the Celtics in the FINALS. Haha, kinda busy drinking and having a good time. I'll answer your posts when I get a little time. You hurl cheap shots, because your argument is weak. If I have learned one thing about you, it's that you dont know much about pro football

no worries, enjoy the win, it was a good game.

 oh and you make assumptions to support your opinions because you think you know a lot about football. you mistake my facts as cheap shots because you have no respones..makes sense. certainly hope you wont ignore my posts and respond.
most importantly though Bod enjoy your weekend.

[body88]

um first of all genious, read this paragraph you wrote. THERE IS NO QUESTION TO ANSWER. 
further more and more importantly, you are clouding the facts. Matt did nothing but confirm what Belichick DID NOT DO that however is not the issue nor is it affirmation that Bill did not tape signals, which is what he was punished for. Its already established that Bill did not use tapes DURING the game, it was never an issue, so Matt attesting to that has no revelance on the issue you and i are debating. Matt confirming that Bill did not use tapes during games is only stating the obvious being that that is not what he was punished for.  you are trying to cloud the issue, Bill was never accused of taping DURING games this has been established, so matt saying he didnt has no revelance, nice try. they are both admitting to something Bill didnt do.
and also i like how you claim that mulitple people accuse Matt of having more than questionable character and try to dismiss his legitimacy talking about what he did in college, this and that, but yet you take his word and use him as the corner stone when it comes in handy  make up your mind already. cant have it both ways...you gonna reply to this?? doubt it.

I'm not clouding anything, you said anyone who took Belichicks word as gospel had their head in the sand, but it has been proven that Belichick was the only one telling the truth every time he opened his mouth, and made a statement about the case, making your statement untrue, and false... You think your so clever with your Walsh point, but your not. Roger Goodel stated that Belichick never used any tapes during any games. Ha ha, so we have the head of the NFL confirming what Belichick claimed back in the day, as well as your boy Walsh. I called WALSH'S story into question regarding certain parts - (most of all have to do with the sb aspect of this case, which you claimed to not care about long ago). Walsh made himself seem more important than he was, and he lied on his resume. The guy is a scumbag, but I don't think it's unreasonable to cite him over something the head of the NFL also stated. Further more, you make me laugh at your lack of knowledge when it comes to this case. Belichick using tapes during games was a HUGE question, and a main focus of this case. You honestly didn't know this? We didn't know how the tapes where used until a few weeks back. Btw, I'm not the one calling Walsh into question, certain NFL personnel he worked with are, and it's over the rams sb aspect of this case. Just to give you a little insight on the legal part of this case, many of the lies Walsh is telling might be formulated to save his skin, but he is forced by law, to tell the truth about things that directly implicate the pats in regards to taping. So he would have to tell the truth about the pats using tapes in games - ( because those tapes exist, and he stole them), but could lie about instances that he says happened, that cannot be proven to not have occured - to help his poor image.

i love how you ignore the point. Bill wasn't punished for using the tape during the game, obviously he didnt. he was punished for taping signals..YES HE DIDNT USE TAPES DURING THE GAME, I NEVER SAID HE DID.

Bill was punished for taping signals from an illegal part of the field, taping signals is not illegal from certain areas in the stadium. One of the main points of this case was using film during games, you didn't say this, because you didn't know it. Most critics were upset over the possibility of the pats using tapes during games to sync up signals, which is laughable. It could never be done in 12 min.

You keep using "misinterpreted" the rules however you previously stated:

body88
Moderator
Getbig V
Posts: 9843
 Re: Should the Patriots give back their SB rings?
« Reply #139 on: September 13, 2007, 08:35:10 PM » Quote 
Beli tried to expose a loophole and got nabbed. he got greedy.[/color]
Make up your mind, he couldn't have "misinterpreted" AND purposely tried to "expose" a loop hole like you said. "exposing" cant be done while being "misinterpreted" again nice attempt and nice try..Bill  knew what he was doing, you admitted it yourself. stop contradicting yourself.

Ha ha, your not clever Atheist. The facts of the case had not come out at that point, and I was stating why I felt Belichick might have violated the rule. At that point I had no proof to say that belichick actually misinterpreted the rules - ( even though I believed him) so I stated why I thought he did what he did. Now I can cite Roger Goodel and Matt Walsh as sources validating what Belichick said. This was a case that was constantly evolving and changing do to false reports and OPINIONS stated by the media. Btw, exposing a loophole in a rule under the impression that you cannot get into trouble for it is a missenterpatation.

PROVEN to have little to no value? then why tape for all that time? 
PROVEN to have little to no value? then why such the harsh penalty?
PROVEN to have little to no value? then why did Jimmy Johnson do it all those years?
yes it was sooo invaluble...obviously.. again i just prove youre wrong. why did jimmy do it then

We have gone over this a million times. The head of the NFL and several other high profile football minds have ALL STATED TAPING HAS LITTLE TO NO VALUE. You may not agree, but those are the facts : )
I have no idea why Jimmy did it. I know he has stated a million times that it has little to no effect on a game.
Atheist, buddy, your not proving me wrong... I just told you that the head of the NFL, Parcels, Johnson and MANY others have stated that taping had very little value. Your question is that, a question. I don't know the answer to it. All I know that is many of the greatest football minds have stated that taping is not a big deal. I guess you are saying that Bill Parcels, Rogor Goodel, Jimmy Johnson, Art Rooney Junior and Jim Mora are lying, ha ha, ok! I answer your questions with testamonial from credibal NFL minds - ( that proves you wrong), and you just keep asking. In a real argument I win.

you will be to when you move out of your parents house..

Actually, I moved to my second home- ( in a nice section of Boston) not to long ago. Insulting me in that way, lets me know for a fact you still live with your parents : ) If not, prove it.

hink so? take the times out and my stance is still more than revelant. go ahead..
"belicheat" was used to manipulate you, which obviously it did. +1   sorry i hurt your feelings

Yes I do. Your full of shit, and you showed how nonobjective you really are when you called him Belicheat. You ob have an axe to grind, to bad you don't know much about the case!

again you contradict yourself, Parcells has done "NOTHING" since Belichick left his side? everyteam he has coached he turned around, go tell anyone who knows anything about football that Parcells has done "NOTHING" since Belichick left and they'll laugh you out of the room.
regarding the contradiction, you say Parcells has done "NOTHING" since Belichick left, that was almost 20 years ago or so..but in the same post you say Parcells is one of the greratest ever? again he cant accomplish "NOTHING" since Belichick left and be one of the greatest ever to live..   make up your mind.
you must like the taste of your foot...

Oh brother, your lack of football knowledge is shocking. First off, Belichick left Parcels when Parcels left the pats in 2000, ha ha. The only one who would get laughed at in a legit football conversation would be you, for not knowing that fact! You had no idea about that one huh? Secondly, we where on the topic of CHAMPIONSHIPS, and how many of those has Parcels won in the last ten years? Bill has done nothing since Belichick left his side, and thats not a knock on Parcels skill set. Parcels is one of the greatest motivators and talent evaluates to ever coach the game, that has nothing to do with rings. However, Belichick is the man who was behind those defenses that won him so many games. Saying Bill has done nothing without Belichick does not Tarnish his talent evaluating skills and motivating ability, it proves my point of the importance Belichick played in getting Parcels his wins - which we were arguing.

a perfect example of you stating your opinion as fact. brother.

Bod youre hilarious

Not really, as shown above you know jack shit about football, and if you actually watch the Giants - Bills sb, you will see why Belichicks unorthodox defensive plan won them that game. I wanted to let you save yourself, but now it's to late. The defensive plan Bill used to defeat the Bills is on display at the the freaking pro football hall of fame, lol. It's not my opinion brother, it's a fact. Why would they put the defensive plan on display at the football hall of fame, if it was not the key to the win? Not to mention, if you knew anything about football history, you would know how good that Bills team was on O. Below, is a qoute from wikopedia regarding the gameplan, haha. The only halarious thing about this convo, is the fact that you really don't know much about the sport you are spouting off about.

His defensive game plan from the New York Giants' 20-19 upset of the Buffalo Bills in Super Bowl XXV is now in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, as is his defensive game plan from the Patriots' 20-17 win over the St. Louis Rams in Super Bowl XXXVI.

[ATHEIST]

I'm not clouding anything, you said anyone who took Belichicks word as gospel had their head in the sand, but it has been proven that Belichick was the only one telling the truth every time he opened his mouth, and made a statement about the case, making your statement untrue, and false, You think your so clever with your Walsh point, but your not. Roger Goodel stated that Belichick never used any tapes during any games.

Again, Belichick claiming he didnt do something he actually didnt do while Roger agrees  doesnt prove your point. you are stating the obvious, this is backed up by the fact that Roger didnt punish Belichick for taping during the games. He was punished for taping signals. you keep using the fact that Belichick admitted to not doing something to make your point. it an attempt on your part to cloud the acutal facts. Beilichick could also claim he didnt use the tapes as coasters for which Roger could agree, and you'll say "see he was telling the truth the enitre time!! told you and Roger agreed with him!!" nice try.

Further more, you make me laugh at your lack of knowledge when it comes to this case. Belichick using tapes during games was a HUGE question, and a main focus of this case. You honestly didn't know this? We didn't know how the tapes where used until a few weeks back.

using the tapes DURING games was never an issue, its obvious that taping during the game and making adjustments at the half is next to impossible . the focus was breaking signals for use in future games thats what people were concerned about. thats what was the issue and what guys like Young, Simms and Fouts mentioned. your using the "tapes used DURING the game" argument only becuse Belichick didnt do it and thats your bread and butter, apparently..
and "a few weeks back" ? Goodel said they used the tapes to tape signals months ago and thats what they were punished for months ago.

One of the main points of this case was using film during games, you didn't say this, because you didn't know it. Most critics were upset over the possibility of the pats using tapes during games to sync up signals, which is laughable. It could never be done in 12 min.

no it wasnt. the use of film was never as big an issue as you thought it was due to the fact that yes, it cant really be done during the half. people didnt claim it was used during the game, they were concerned about the tapes being used at a later date.  it was a bigger deal to you becuase you used it to as evidence to support your theory.

Ha ha, your not clever Atheist. The facts of the case had not come out at that point, and I was stating why I felt Belichick might have violated the rule. At that point I had no proof to say that belichick actually misinterpreted the rules - ( even though I believed him) so I stated why I thought he did what he did. Now I can cite Roger Goodel and Matt Walsh as sources validating what Belichick said. This was a case that was constantly evolving and changing do to false reports and OPINIONS stated by the media. Btw, exposing a loophole in a rule under the impression that you cannot get into trouble for it is a missenterpatation.

yes at that point you couldnt say he "missinterpreted" the rule because you didnt know. now that we know the facts and Belichcik was found guilty of cheating you now change your song and dance to "he missinterpreted the rules" the fact that you admit to not being objective, yet you admit to taking Belichicks word as gospel is another contradiction my friend and where it gets you in trouble.

We have gone over this a million times. The head of the NFL and several other high profile football minds have ALL STATED TAPING HAS LITTLE TO NO VALUE. You may not agree, but those are the facts : )
I have no idea why Jimmy did it. I know he has stated a million times that it has little to no effect on a game.
Atheist, buddy, your not proving me wrong... I just told you that the head of the NFL, Parcels, Johnson and MANY others have stated that taping had very little value. Your question is that, a question. I don't know the answer to it. All I know that is many of the greatest football minds have stated that taping is not a big deal. I guess you are saying that Bill Parcels, Rogor Goodel, Jimmy Johnson, Art Rooney Junior and Jim Mora are lying, ha ha, ok! I answer your questions with testamonial from credibal NFL minds - ( that proves you wrong), and you just keep asking. In a real argument I win.

stop avoiding the point. you stated that the tapes have little to no value, yet you also say many coaches have done it themselves over their careers. my question to YOU is why would they do it if it was not beneficial? think for yourself! what you cant make a conclusion on your own? if it was of little to no value it wouldnt have been done.

Beach Bum
Getbig V

Posts: 14091


    Re: ...so this SpyGate thing..
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2008, 01:01:32 PM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They wouldn't have done it if it didn't give them some kind of advantage  

get your head out of the sand. and this is a real debate and youre losing.

Actually, I moved to my second home- ( in a nice section of Boston) not to long ago. Insulting me in that way, lets me know for a fact you still live with your parents : ) If not, prove it.

you really need to grow up, that was the weakest attempt at reverse psychology ever, you need practice.

Oh brother, your lack of football knowledge is shocking. First off, Belichick left Parcels when Parcels left the pats in 2000, ha ha. The only one who would get laughed at in a legit football conversation would be you, for not knowing that fact!

umm no i have a life. and my point still stands.

Secondly, we where on the topic of CHAMPIONSHIPS, and how many of those has Parcels won in the last ten years? Bill has done nothing since Belichick left his side, and thats not a knock on Parcels skill set. Parcels is one of the greatest motivators and talent evaluates to ever coach the game, that has nothing to do with rings. However, Belichick is the man who was behind those defenses that won him so many games. Saying Bill has done nothing without Belichick does not Tarnish his talent evaluating skills and motivating ability, it proves my point of the importance Belichick played in getting Parcels his wins - which we were arguing.

how many championships has Belichick won with out Romeo or Charlie? so according to your logic now Belichick is not great? you cant have it both ways. And saying Parcells has done nothing since Belichick left would get you laughed out of the room. this is completely your opinion and NOT taken as a fact. and dont try and spin this, said Parcells has done nothing since Belichick left. youre wrong. what has belichick done with out charlie and romeo? no spin please.

bod i can smell your despiration from here  the funny thing is that im a work doing this while getting paid and its friday evening where youre at but youre at home on an internet board hhmmm. its called a life and i highly suggest you get one.