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HIT to volume

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oldtimer1:
Anyone make the switch from HIT to volume?  There is no real definition of HIT so I will call it low sets to failure. Something like one to a max of 3 sets per exercise.  I've been training forever and I'm definitely in the low set camp. The reason I bring it up is that I'm thinking about doing something different.

I've been noticing a lot of in shape guys using moderate weights with a short rest between sets. Making a light weight heavy so to speak. It seems the sets go like this. Four to six sets an exercise. The first sets are no where near exhaustion but the final set is. So five sets of an exercise might look like this. Set one is ten reps. Set two is ten reps. Set three the fatigue is building and ten is near exhaustion. Set four is ten but it's getting really hard. Set five failure comes at 8 reps.

The owner of my gym bought it up with me. He said I train really hard but he said getting a pump is part of the training and I'm training like I'm a power lifter.

Rmj11:
That's one way. Another way to do volume is to ramp/pyramid up the sets to 1-2 hard sets. That's  how a lot of bodybuilders train or used to train such as Eddie Robinson, Lou Ferrigno, Bertil Fox, Arnold, Coleman, Yates (in his early years) etc.

So say you do barbell curls for 4 sets of 8-10 reps. The first set is easy(ish) with a weight do 10 good reps with. This is a warm up. The next set you add weight (10-20 pounds depending on oneís strength) and do another 10 reps but it starts to get a bit hard when you get 8 reps but manage 10. This is more like a prep set. The next set go up in weight again and which is  hard to get 10, you have to try to get at least 8 reps. For the last set stick with that weight and try to get another 8 reps at least. So itís a warm up set, followed by a prep set then 2 hard work sets. Your rest periods will be longer due to the increase in weight and effort in the last 2-3 sets but your getting the same effect if you did it with the same weight on all sets with shorter rest periods. If that makes sense.

Example

Bench press set 1 10 reps warm up weight
Set 2 10 reps prep set
Set 3 8-10 reps to failure or 1-2 reps shy of failure
Set 4 8-10 reps to failure

Rest periods would be 1-2 mins.

Another way is to do 4 sets of 8-12 reps in a straight set fashion but may have to drop the weight. Boyer Coe did this training. Basically you use a weight that will get you to 10-12 reps, rest, then do the next set but because of the fatigue you may only get 8-10 then for the next 2 sets drop the weight down and try to get 10-12 reps followed by 8-10 on the last set.

Example

Set 1 10 reps
Set 2 8 reps
Drop the weight down by 10% or so
Set 3 10 reps
Set 4 8 reps

Rest periods are at 60 seconds.

oldtimer1:
Thanks for your input. My normal method of operation is a very non taxing warm up set followed by two sets to near failure. This week since I'm short on time I'm going to do one non taxing warm up set if necessary then one set to failure. It's actually a brutal way to train. It does fuck with your mind as you are ending the set at complete exhaustion. Not a fun way to train.  Big exercises like the leg press or squats might get more than one warm up. Some minor body parts might just get one true set to failure with no warm up.

Since I'm so brain washed with Arthur Jones and Mentzer in my younger days I have trained with low sets to failure for many decades. When ever on very rare occasions I use volume I feel like I'm just going for the pump and not training for strength. I remember reading from a former training partner of Danny Padilla that he liked 5 sets of 12 using the same weight for each exercise. The first few sets weren't that hard but at the end they sure was has he rested little between sets. I remember I tried it with chest. I was going to start with the common bench press with 5 sets of 12. The weight was so light I was embarrassed at my for lack of a better term muscular endurance. I ran out of gas quick. I did this in my home gym so no one could see the light weights I had to use to get through it. When I did the 5 sets of 12 for 20 sets with my arms they were pumped more than they were in decades. HIT doesn't lend itself to a big pump in the context of volume training.

I'd like to experiment in the future with volume. I think in the end a trainer should use both heavy and muscular endurance pump training at different cycles.  I just feel I would lose strength quickly using many sets and the moderate weights I would be forced to use. In some cases light the bench reference volume the weight used by me would be an embarrassment. Then again I heard from a guy watching Tom Platz in his prime training for a show he was using 135lbs for his bench sets after doing many sets of flies. I'm no strong man but at the end of back and chest when I'm really shot I do deadlifts at the end of the workout when I'm prefatiqued. I do something like 315lbs for 2 sets of 4. If I was doing Danny's volume training I bet the weight would be 225lbs or a lot less to get that 5 sets of 12 in.

IroNat:
For nattys. realistically, once you get close to your natural muscular limit that is as far as you will gain.

You can still get stronger maximally by training your nervous system using heavy, low reps.

So it doesn't matter how you train if your goal is muscular size as long as you train your muscle groups with reasonable intensity 2-3 times a week.

You can get fatter of course if you eat a lot and some of the weight gain will be muscle but it will mostly be fat.

Rmj11:

--- Quote from: oldtimer1 on June 17, 2019, 10:04:07 AM ---Thanks for your input. My normal method of operation is a very non taxing warm up set followed by two sets to near failure. This week since I'm short on time I'm going to do one non taxing warm up set if necessary then one set to failure. It's actually a brutal way to train. It does fuck with your mind as you are ending the set at complete exhaustion. Not a fun way to train.  Big exercises like the leg press or squats might get more than one warm up. Some minor body parts might just get one true set to failure with no warm up.

Since I'm so brain washed with Arthur Jones and Mentzer in my younger days I have trained with low sets to failure for many decades. When ever on very rare occasions I use volume I feel like I'm just going for the pump and not training for strength. I remember reading from a former training partner of Danny Padilla that he liked 5 sets of 12 using the same weight for each exercise. The first few sets weren't that hard but at the end they sure was has he rested little between sets. I remember I tried it with chest. I was going to start with the common bench press with 5 sets of 12. The weight was so light I was embarrassed at my for lack of a better term muscular endurance. I ran out of gas quick. I did this in my home gym so no one could see the light weights I had to use to get through it. When I did the 5 sets of 12 for 20 sets with my arms they were pumped more than they were in decades. HIT doesn't lend itself to a big pump in the context of volume training.

I'd like to experiment in the future with volume. I think in the end a trainer should use both heavy and muscular endurance pump training at different cycles.  I just feel I would lose strength quickly using many sets and the moderate weights I would be forced to use. In some cases light the bench reference volume the weight used by me would be an embarrassment. Then again I heard from a guy watching Tom Platz in his prime training for a show he was using 135lbs for his bench sets after doing many sets of flies. I'm no strong man but at the end of back and chest when I'm really shot I do deadlifts at the end of the workout when I'm prefatiqued. I do something like 315lbs for 2 sets of 4. If I was doing Danny's volume training I bet the weight would be 225lbs or a lot less to get that 5 sets of 12 in.



--- End quote ---

I was the same. When I began training I would take every work set to failure. My chest routine back then was bench press and incline flys, 3 sets each to failure. It worked but after a while I began to feel burn out. But anything you do works when you first start out. Every time Iíve gone back to lower volume, high intensity training I would burn out after 2-3 weeks and my gains would regress. I think Hit is okay for very short periods but long term, conventional training is best overall. High intensity training depletes your hormones, cns fatigue, lose of strength and appetite if used most of the time.

Padillaís way of training is good. You donít have to do 5 sets of 12. I have the book 3 more reps which has dannyís Routine in there. Itís interesting to note that in the off-season, Danny only trained 3 days a week.

Mon chest and back
Weds Shoulders and arms
Fri legs

Abs were trained 2 x a week.

He also did a heavier weight scheme such as 5x8 instead of 5x12. That may be more useful for you. 5x12 was used in contest preparation but for mass and strength, it was 5x8. Use a weight where 12 reps is your max but stop at 8 reps on the first few sets. You last set or 2 should be hard to get 8 reps, you may only get 5-6 reps. Or you could do one exercise in Hit fashion like bench press then do the other chest exercises with the 5x8 or 5x12 scheme. Getting stuck with one way of training will quickly lead to plateaus. Just some ideas you can try out. There is no best way to train despite what people like jones and Mentzer claimed.

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