A test of Getbigger's knowledge of the resistance curve: Single dumbbell lateral

[King Shizzo]

It doesn`t develop hypertrophy if you are attempting to stay at a certain bodyweight and you don`t ingest enough calories and protein.

If it does,it`s gonna take a long time to develop.

Nutrition = 75 % of bodybuilding.

But what is your definition of bodybuilding? Take enough test and tren, and you can almost eat whatever you want. Do you honestly think that all pro bodybuilders eat clean? Even coming close to a contest?

Steroids let you eat almost anything you want. A few weeks out, you might limit yourself a tad.

A few days out, you cut water a bit. Then you cut carbs, then you add in the diuretic, then you cut the water even more. Then between the prejudjing, you load up on carbs, and try not to die before the night show.

[Humble Narcissist]

But what is your definition of bodybuilding? Take enough test and tren, and you can almost eat whatever you want. Do you honestly think that all pro bodybuilders eat clean? Even coming close to a contest?

Steroids let you eat almost anything you want. A few weeks out, you might limit yourself a tad.

A few days out, you cut water a bit. Then you cut carbs, then you add in the diuretic, then you cut the water even more. Then between the prejudjing, you load up on carbs, and try not to die before the night show.

You just eliminated the need for pre contest programs right there.

[IroNat]

Why don't Olympic lifters and powerlifters do 8-12 rep sets?

Because they don't build limit strength.  But you know this.

For a Mensa member Bhank sure is dumb.

Singles can develop great strength and power.  Oly lifters commonly do sets of 2 reps.

[wes]

But what is your definition of bodybuilding? Take enough test and tren, and you can almost eat whatever you want. Do you honestly think that all pro bodybuilders eat clean? Even coming close to a contest?

Steroids let you eat almost anything you want. A few weeks out, you might limit yourself a tad.

A few days out, you cut water a bit. Then you cut carbs, then you add in the diuretic, then you cut the water even more. Then between the prejudjing, you load up on carbs, and try not to die before the night show.

I agree for the most part but what`s that got to do with what I posted ?

[King Shizzo]

I agree for the most part but what`s that got to do with what I posted ?

Because I don't think nutrition is 75%, on any level of bodybuilding (not counting natural)
In my opinion, I think you were cheating yourself, Wes. You probably could have enjoyed some good food, and even kept more size, if you upped the dosage.

But they won't tell you that.

[wes]

Because I don't think nutrition is 75%, on any level of bodybuilding (not counting natural)
In my opinion, I think you were cheating yourself, Wes. You probably could have enjoyed some good food, and even kept more size, if you upped the dosage.

But they won't tell you that.

You may be right but I didn`t want to rely solely on drug use.

Also some pros stay lean when on GH and can eat almost anything but you can bet most pros also eat tons of egg whites,fish,and chicken.

[Humble Narcissist]

Because they don't build limit strength.  But you know this.

For a Mensa member Bhank sure is dumb.

Singles can develop great strength and power.  Oly lifters commonly do sets of 2 reps.

MENSA must have dropped their standards.

[IroNat]

MENSA must have dropped their standards.

I feel bad about calling Bhank dumb.

Sorry, Bhank.

[pellius]

I try not to use any leverage or momentum the idea is to isolate. Powerlifters will arch their back up to make the chest closer to the bar widen their grip to narrow the distance the arms extend then bounce the weight 4 inches off their sternum using their legs and back and call it a bench press record. That is horseshit bodybuilderss do high neck presses to the chest and squeeze their pecs completely different movement

Again in my opinion developing strength means adding muscle not using big weights. Weights are merely tools not the goal

Said in another way, a Powerlifter/Olympic Lifter tries to find and develop a way or technique to make the lift as easy as possible to move as much weight as possible. A bber tries to perform and exercise in a way to make it as hard as possible to put maximum stress on the muscle. The weight, the resistance is just a means to an end. For Powerlifters/Olympic Lifters moving the maximum amount of weight is the end.

An obvious example is the barbell curl. You can use a relatively large amount of weight by just blasting it up. You probably could use maybe half that weight if you minimize any body swing and rely on just pure bicep contraction. Which one will put more stress on the bicep?

[pellius]

Why don't Olympic lifters and powerlifters do 8-12 rep sets?

Sure they do. They also do isolation exercises. Where did you get the notion that all they did is the Snatch and the Clean and Jerk all day?

But really, it's irrelevant to the point being made. Olympic lifting is not about pure muscular strength. There is a lot of technique and strategy involved.

[pellius]

But what is your definition of bodybuilding? Take enough test and tren, and you can almost eat whatever you want. Do you honestly think that all pro bodybuilders eat clean? Even coming close to a contest?

Steroids let you eat almost anything you want. A few weeks out, you might limit yourself a tad.

A few days out, you cut water a bit. Then you cut carbs, then you add in the diuretic, then you cut the water even more. Then between the prejudjing, you load up on carbs, and try not to die before the night show.

No matter what you do or take, if you are in a huge caloric surplus you will get fat. Just look at the majority of heavyweight strength athletes.

Kind of comical you giving advice on how to peak for a show.

[pellius]

Let's see if I can clear this up. This only makes sense if you believe that taxing the muscle as much as possible will stimulate an adaptive response.
Pushing yourself and squeezing as much out of the muscle as possible. And this isn't just about maximizing intensity.

When you do a one-rep max, say it's a 405  bench press, and no matter how hard you push you simply cannot get another rep. Here you have a set of maximal intensity but did you really tax your muscles to it's limit? There is the concept call "inroads", i.e., how "deep" you get into the muscle.
Sure you cannot generate another 400+ lbs of force to get that extra rep but you sure have a lot more in you. You could easily generate another 350 lbs of force, and after that another 300 lbs (these numbers are arbitrary just to make a point). If you are like Milos and his forced reps and drop sets he wants to get to a point where you can barely move the bar.

Remember, a muscle fiber contracts in a all or nothing way. It doesn't contract more or less depending upon the load. It's all or nothing and it will recruit only the fibers necessary to move the resistance and as that fiber exhaust itself other fibers will be recruited to replace it When you contract a muscle until it simply cannot contract any more then you have made the maximum amount of inroads. All available fibers have been exhausted.

Obviously you don't have to train until all muscle contraction is impossible but the "deeper" you go the more stress you have put on the muscle in the hopes of developing an adaptive response. As long as you are doing something that you can already do, something already easy, you are not giving your body anything to adapt to.

[bhank]

But what is your definition of bodybuilding? Take enough test and tren, and you can almost eat whatever you want. Do you honestly think that all pro bodybuilders eat clean? Even coming close to a contest?

Steroids let you eat almost anything you want. A few weeks out, you might limit yourself a tad.

A few days out, you cut water a bit. Then you cut carbs, then you add in the diuretic, then you cut the water even more. Then between the prejudjing, you load up on carbs, and try not to die before the night show.

Let me ask you Shizzo how do you know these things? Because you have read them somewhere? By all means start taking everything you may find the results are not the magic pill you expect.

[Humble Narcissist]

Let's see if I can clear this up. This only makes sense if you believe that taxing the muscle as much as possible will stimulate an adaptive response.
Pushing yourself and squeezing as much out of the muscle as possible. And this isn't just about maximizing intensity.

When you do a one-rep max, say it's a 405  bench press, and no matter how hard you push you simply cannot get another rep. Here you have a set of maximal intensity but did you really tax your muscles to it's limit? There is the concept call "inroads", i.e., how "deep" you get into the muscle.
Sure you cannot generate another 400+ lbs of force to get that extra rep but you sure have a lot more in you. You could easily generate another 350 lbs of force, and after that another 300 lbs (these numbers are arbitrary just to make a point). If you are like Milos and his forced reps and drop sets he wants to get to a point where you can barely move the bar.

Remember, a muscle fiber contracts in a all or nothing way. It doesn't contract more or less depending upon the load. It's all or nothing and it will recruit only the fibers necessary to move the resistance and as that fiber exhaust itself other fibers will be recruited to replace it When you contract a muscle until it simply cannot contract any more then you have made the maximum amount of inroads. All available fibers have been exhausted.

Obviously you don't have to train until all muscle contraction is impossible but the "deeper" you go the more stress you have put on the muscle in the hopes of developing an adaptive response. As long as you are doing something that you can already do, something already easy, you are not giving your body anything to adapt to.

You are using Arthur Jones' definition of intensity and that is false.  Intensity is actually the % of 1 rep max.

[IroNat]

You are using Arthur Jones' definition of intensity and that is false.  Intensity is actually the % of 1 rep max.

Oh boy, here we go.  Fasten seat belts...

[pellius]

You are using Arthur Jones' definition of intensity and that is false.  Intensity is actually the % of 1 rep max.

No, it's not. If you do 75% of your one-rep max does that mean you are training with 75% intensity?

[Humble Narcissist]

No, it's not. If you do 75% of your one-rep max does that mean you are training with 75% intensity?

https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/defining-intensity-in-the-weight-room-science-of-iron.htm

[pellius]

https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/defining-intensity-in-the-weight-room-science-of-iron.htm

And who exactly is Kasey Esser and why should we listen to him? People define things on the net any way they want. If you think that maximum intensity is someone completing a one-rep max as oppose to someone pushing until he drops to the ground or his muscles can no longer contract regardless of the resistance or load is fine with me. I remember trying to run as fast as I could on the Sand Dune hill (Coach and others will know what I'm talking about) until I literally collapsed on the ground. It's like I was paralyzed and couldn't move on my own volition.

If you believe doing one rep max puts the greatest stress on the muscle to stimulate an adaptive response have at it. But the fact of the matter is that it doesn't and no one, including you, does one rep max as the most optimal way towards muscle hypertrophy.

To paraphrase your previous comment, "That is Kasey Esser's definition of intensity and that is false."

[Walter Sobchak]

No, it's not. If you do 75% of your one-rep max does that mean you are training with 75% intensity?

You’re looking at this intensity issue from strictly a poundage perspective and I’m not sure that is correct.

If you do 6 sets of 1 rep with a weight that is 75% of your 1RM and each rep has a 15 minute break in between, that isn’t very intense.

If I do 6 reps of a weight that is 75% of my 1RM and it takes me 15 seconds, I’m working more intensely.

So if Work is measured as Force multiplied by Distance, then Intensity would have to be Work divided by Time.

[Thin Lizzy]

Intensity is a vague term. If you want to get more specific I believe muscle fiber recruitment percentage would be a better metric. As you move up in poundages you recruit more type 2s resulting in greater muscle contractions creating more micro tears and producing more fatigue metabolites.

The end result being an increase in power but a decrease in duration and a longer recovery time.

[wes]

I think more TUT would be needed than can be achieved doing only 1-6 reps and the weight will be so heavy on the lower rep sets that you have to concentrate more on form........ and establishing a mind/muscle connection is damn near impossible doing only a  double on the bench as an example.....besides that using the low reps and maximum poundages works ligaments and tendons harder than muscle tissue IMO.....plus you don`t get as good a pump and whether you think that`s important (I DO) or not, who doesn`t like to feel a nice tight pump in their arms or chest for an example....I know I do.

[pellius]

You’re looking at this intensity issue from strictly a poundage perspective and I’m not sure that is correct.

If you do 6 sets of 1 rep with a weight that is 75% of your 1RM and each rep has a 15 minute break in between, that isn’t very intense.

If I do 6 reps of a weight that is 75% of my 1RM and it takes me 15 seconds, I’m working more intensely.

So if Work is measured as Force multiplied by Distance, then Intensity would have to be Work divided by Time.

Actually, it is Humble that is defining intensity that way. I disagree with it. The amount of force being generated is not always an example of maximum intensity of effort. In fact, they are often inversely proportional to each other.

[pellius]

Intensity is a vague term. If you want to get more specific I believe muscle fiber recruitment percentage would be a better metric. As you move up in poundages you recruit more type 2s resulting in greater muscle contractions creating more micro tears and producing more fatigue metabolites.

The end result being an increase in power but a decrease in duration and a longer recovery time.

Actually, you are correct. It is somewhat vague and subjective. Realistically we cannot measure the percentage of fiber recruitment. And people recruit a percentage of their total muscle fibers quite differently. That's why you have a person without much muscle development being just as strong or even stronger (in the sense of moving weight) as someone bigger and more muscular as they are able to recruit a higher percentage of their muscle fibers. But no matter how great the resistance, no one can contract 100% of their muscle at a given time. The CNS won't allow it and you would have no muscle endurance. It's been speculated that there are situations so urgent and desperate that the CNS overrides these limitations, such as when you hear stories of a mother lifting the side of a car to save her child.

[pellius]

I think more TUT would be needed than can be achieved doing only 1-6 reps and the weight will be so heavy on the lower rep sets that you have to concentrate more on form........ and establishing a mind/muscle connection is damn near impossible doing only a  double on the bench as an example.....besides that using the low reps and maximum poundages works ligaments and tendons harder than muscle tissue IMO.....plus you don`t get as good a pump and whether you think that`s important (I DO) or not, who doesn`t like to feel a nice tight pump in their arms or chest for an example....I know I do.

Yes, that is what I was talking about when referring to the concept of "inroads" and how "deep" you work the given muscle. When you do your one-rep max of, say, 405 on the bench, you are performing with maximum momentary exertion, i.e., you can't generate any more force by definition. But no one believes that you have worked the muscle to exhaustion. You have a lot left in you. You can easily push, say 375 lbs, and after that, 355 lbs, and so on with each addition rep "digging deeper" into the targeted muscle or muscle group. As I mentioned previously when you look at Milos' training protocol with his forced reps and drop sets, he pushes himself and his clients to a state where any additional muscular contraction is impossible. There was a video where he was straining with 5 lb laterals and if you just walked into the gym seeing that you would be puzzled. But you missed the part where he started at 50 lbs and work his way down with no rest.

There was a video where Milos was training a client doing legs. It was almost painful to watch. The amount of effort, and, yes, the intensity he squeezed out of his client was almost painful to watch. No disrespect to, IMO, the best Mr. Olympia covering every era, Dorian Yates, who was known for his intensity, but this session was much more intense than Dorian's leg day in his Blood and Guts video. When Dorian says that he KNEW, he worked harder than anybody else because it is impossible for a person to work harder to change his mind if he saw this poor soul being tortured by Milos.

[Humble Narcissist]

Actually, you are correct. It is somewhat vague and subjective. Realistically we cannot measure the percentage of fiber recruitment. And people recruit a percentage of their total muscle fibers quite differently. That's why you have a person without much muscle development being just as strong or even stronger (in the sense of moving weight) as someone bigger and more muscular as they are able to recruit a higher percentage of their muscle fibers. But no matter how great the resistance, no one can contract 100% of their muscle at a given time. The CNS won't allow it and you would have no muscle endurance. It's been speculated that there are situations so urgent and desperate that the CNS overrides these limitations, such as when you hear stories of a mother lifting the side of a car to save her child.

There is nothing vague or subjective about intensity at all.  Your definition of intensity is "hard" so that's why it seems vague and subjective.  There is an actual definition of intensity in sports science.