Samir or Dorian

[Humble Narcissist]

Dorian all the way. He brought class with mass into the Game. Pictures on the internet are misleading. Proof is who was actually there and saw these guys.

The pic of Samir is closer up than the pic of Dorian. Samir would look like a flea next to Dorian. Samir did look awesome in '83.

[BEEFYHEAVYWEIGHT]

Samir by a thousand miles. Samir in this shot has the greatest back in bodybuilding history. Dorian always looked like his neck and traps were pushing his head forward and hunched. End of discussion.

[Notomorrow]

Why don't they hire Per Bernal or other great bodybuilding photographer to light these Olympias now? The lighting is always fucked. The reason a lot of 80s shots look so good is that(often for budgetary reasons) the lighting would not have a lot of what is called "fill light". Fill light gets rid of any and all differences between light and dark, thus contrast. This is why many physique photographers shoot in black and white, it is high contrast. But with all the fill light, it washes out tons of detail in the physiques. It's great for most sports to see clearly, but for bodybuilding you need a proper balance of light and dark. Even with the backdrops, it has to be colors that will contrast properly with physiques. Not jet black nor all the fucking distracting visual bells and whistles going off at this last O. So tired of hearing people say if you weren't there, you really didn't even see the show as you miss everything in photos and videos. Then don't charge for a fucking livestream or light the show properly.

[Humble Narcissist]

Why don't they hire Per Bernal or other great bodybuilding photographer to light these Olympias now? The lighting is always fucked. The reason a lot of 80s shots look so good is that(often for budgetary reasons) the lighting would not have a lot of what is called "fill light". Fill light gets rid of any and all differences between light and dark, thus contrast. This is why many physique photographers shoot in black and white, it is high contrast. But with all the fill light, it washes out tons of detail in the physiques. It's great for most sports to see clearly, but for bodybuilding you need a proper balance of light and dark. Even with the backdrops, it has to be colors that will contrast properly with physiques. Not jet black nor all the fucking distracting visual bells and whistles going off at this last O. So tired of hearing people say if you weren't there, you really didn't even see the show as you miss everything in photos and videos. Then don't charge for a fucking livestream or light the show properly.

They have to show the supplement companies sponsoring the show in the background.

[joswift]

I'm glad you included Samir here.

I understand the difficulty in assessing physiques and controlling for height disparities...it is difficult. Also, era-adjusting is difficult.

I don't think there should ever be a list of greatest backs that excludes Samir.

I think Samir beats Dorian on every basis, except overall mass, and density - that grainy conditioning that Dorian had.

This thread also reminds me of the 1983 Mr. Olympia. I don't think any [or at least - many] had Bertil Fox beating Samir Bannout...but I think it was a robbery that Bertil was out of the top 3.

I think Bertil should have been 3rd for sure.

Here was the top 5:

1st - Samir Bannout [deserving winner]
2nd - Mohamed Makkawy
3rd - Lee Haney
4th - Frank Zane
5th - Bertil Fox

Is it wrong for me to think Bertil should have been 2nd?

Back to Samir - I think we also need to consider that Samir was 189-lb in that photo. I don't think Samir competed over 210 [correct me if I'm wrong].

Dorian was closer to 259-lb there. So I think considering the 70-lb weight advantage, Samir is more than holding his own.

It makes me wonder how Samir would look, had he competed in the "chemical area", starting about ten years after his prime.

Tom Platz said that Samir was the most gifted bodybuilder going in to the 1988 Mr. Olympia. That's a big compliment, given the lineup, which includes Lee Haney, Rich Gaspari, and many other greats.

I'm probably biased here though - Samir once complimented my physique. To get a compliment like that from a former Mr. Olympia, and easily one of the most aesthetic Mr. Olympia winners ever. That was one of the greatest compliments I've ever received in my life. I was literally taken aback by his compliment, just given his status in bodybuilding history. Maybe he just wanted me to buy his supplements. 

I saw Samir just prior to that Masters contest they had [I think in 2011]. Samir said that he made some mistakes dialing in - and I can tell you from how he looked about a month or so before the contest, that he was not just making excuses. He looked great.

I know Samir trained hard as a bodybuilder, but I sometimes wonder how great it must be to have genetics like that. I guarantee a person with Samir's genetics can train once a week, and look better than 90% of men who are fully dedicated to training and nutrition.

yes, he was watery and soft, it was the crowd that made him think he deserved better.

[Stephano]

Samir by a thousand miles. Samir in this shot has the greatest back in bodybuilding history. Dorian always looked like his neck and traps were pushing his head forward and hunched. End of discussion.

Samir is brutally owning Dorian ITT.

More symmetrical, better arms, better structure, better balance, and even better muscular definition.  (Dorian has that extra-dry condition, but his back doesn't pop like Samir's in those photos.) 

[Royalty]

Samir is brutally owning Dorian ITT.

More symmetrical, better arms, better structure, better balance, and even better muscular definition.  (Dorian has that extra-dry condition, but his back doesn't pop like Samir's in those photos.)

Dorian would’ve overpowered him. Just as he did at the 1992 Olympia. Samir allowed people to overpower him.

I actually think that Mike Quinn may have had a better back than Samir.

But either way, Samir could not stand next to Yates.

[Taffin]

Dorian would’ve overpowered him. Just as he did at the 1992 Olympia. Samir allowed people to overpower him.

I actually think that Mike Quinn may have had a better back than Samir.

But either way, Samir could not stand next to Yates.

Hmmm - interesting viewpoint.  I certainly remember Quinn having good width and low lats.  Maybe someone has a better picture than this?

[BB]

Samir. His lower and mid back especially, are what's putting him a good bit ahead to my eye. He was fantastic in back and twisting poses.

[Humble Narcissist]

Dorian would’ve overpowered him. Just as he did at the 1992 Olympia. Samir allowed people to overpower him.

I actually think that Mike Quinn may have had a better back than Samir.

But either way, Samir could not stand next to Yates.

Depends on the contest. Quinn looked great in some contests and untrained in others.

[Titus Pullo]

Depends on the contest. Quinn looked great in some contests and untrained in others.

I thought it was hilarious when he tried to blame Pasquale (sp?) for showing up fucking FAT at a WBF show...the 1992 rendig, I believe? 

He was always nuts.  People endlessly rag on Mentzer for his amphetamine-induced craziness, but Quinn and some of those 80s guys were just as bad with their cocaine.

[Never1AShow]

Yates by miles. Samir was about 5'7" and 190lbs when he won the Olympia.  Yates was 5'10" 267 on stage hard and ripped. Samir would disappear standing next to Dorian in a back pose. Having said that Samir has one of the best backs of all time.

One story I remember Samir telling. He saw Mentzer and Viator both fail to deadlift 585lbs during a back workout. Samir walked over and not only lifted it but did some reps.

Isn't Samir a big bullshitter though?

[pamith]

Yates by miles. Samir was about 5'7" and 190lbs when he won the Olympia.  Yates was 5'10" 267 on stage hard and ripped. Samir would disappear standing next to Dorian in a back pose. Having said that Samir has one of the best backs of all time.

One story I remember Samir telling. He saw Mentzer and Viator both fail to deadlift 585lbs during a back workout. Samir walked over and not only lifted it but did some reps.

Brutal if true

[Humble Narcissist]

I thought it was hilarious when he tried to blame Pasquale (sp?) for showing up fucking FAT at a WBF show...the 1992 rendig, I believe? 

He was always nuts.  People endlessly rag on Mentzer for his amphetamine-induced craziness, but Quinn and some of those 80s guys were just as bad with their cocaine.

Yes, he was blaming the Anabolic Diet when it was really his lack of dieting and no steroids that made him look like shit. Di Pasquale's diet worked really well if you did it.

[pamith]

Dorian had the best back ever, no one comes close, not even Ronnie

[Stephano]

Dorian had the best back ever, no one comes close, not even Ronnie

The back double bicep is also about the... you know... biceps.  (And delts, etc.)  Dorian didn't have those.  His biceps were as flat as pancakes, and small.

Also, Samir's back looks better in all of the pics posted in this thread.

[strgth]

I hope this is a joke. Thickest and driest back ever VS .. a nobody? Ok

[wes]

I hope this is a joke. Thickest and driest back ever VS .. a nobody? Ok

[Pet shop boys]

samir , no question



WoooSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Humble Narcissist]

I hope this is a joke. Thickest and driest back ever VS .. a nobody? Ok

Samir won an Olympia. Not quite a nobody.

[pamith]

My back is thick too like Dorian

[robcguns]

I’d say that lighting make a huge difference in those pics.

[Taffin]

I’d say that lighting make a huge difference in those pics.

Couldn't agree more Rob - it's a shame there isn't some kind of international standard rig that places had to use... the lighting at this years Olympia is a case in point - I'm not entirely convinced that people were 'off' by as much as people thought - due to the lighting layout and busy backgrounds

I mean - remember this shot?

[Royalty]

This pic from 1991 shows the structural advantage that Yates had over Samir.

[Never1AShow]

Couldn't agree more Rob - it's a shame there isn't some kind of international standard rig that places had to use... the lighting at this years Olympia is a case in point - I'm not entirely convinced that people were 'off' by as much as people thought - due to the lighting layout and busy backgrounds

I mean - remember this shot?

Can someone find a Las Vegas kitchen to hold the O in this year?