Death for Craig and life for Kelly?

[phyxsius]

I would long for both becoming someone else's bitch for life

[onlyme]

Does anyone know if Melissa was dead prior to the car being put on fire.  Or was she just knocked out.  Very imporatant cause if she was still alive when the car was burning then it is premeditated.  I would think the gagged her so she couldn't scream and if that is why then she mst have been alove while the car was burning.  Also has it been established where she was killed and how they got her in the trunk without anyone or any cameras seeing them.  In Vegas all major hotels and casinos have camera all over the parking lots.  They caught a guy who murdered someone at the Silverton with the cameras in the parking lot. No matter what I think they both did this together.  They both definitley had motives.  I don't think there is any doubt that they did this but to what extent each one participated is the big question.   I wonder if Pinnacle is sending him supplements in jail.

[pumpster]

The warrant stated that on Dec. 17, Titus told a business associate "I'm guilty" and said he intended to go to Boston where a bodybuilder friend would help him liquidate his assets so he could flee to a country with no extradition treaty with the United States.

Titus is charged with murder and arson and Ryan is charged as an accessory to those crimes after the fact. Both will return to court Jan. 12.

http://www2.townonline.com/canton/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=399604&format=&page=1

[24KT]

Does anyone know if Melissa was dead prior to the car being put on fire.  Or was she just knocked out.  Very imporatant cause if she was still alive when the car was burning then it is premeditated.  I would think the gagged her so she couldn't scream and if that is why then she mst have been alove while the car was burning.  Also has it been established where she was killed and how they got her in the trunk without anyone or any cameras seeing them.  In Vegas all major hotels and casinos have camera all over the parking lots.  They caught a guy who murdered someone at the Silverton with the cameras in the parking lot. No matter what I think they both did this together.  They both definitley had motives.  I don't think there is any doubt that they did this but to what extent each one participated is the big question.   I wonder if Pinnacle is sending him supplements in jail.

Keith, I hate to say it, ...but that would be my first thought. If she was found bound, tied & gagged in the trunk, it seems pretty logical that she was alive when she went in there. They said the cause of death was asphyxiation. It's quite possible the smoke from the burning vehicle prevented any oxygen from getting into her lungs. And if her face was completely wrapped in duct tape, that too would have hindered her ability to breathe.

[bigdumbbell]

Does anyone know if Melissa was dead prior to the car being put on fire.  Or was she just knocked out.  Very imporatant cause if she was still alive when the car was burning then it is premeditated.  I would think the gagged her so she couldn't scream and if that is why then she mst have been alove while the car was burning.  Also has it been established where she was killed and how they got her in the trunk without anyone or any cameras seeing them.  In Vegas all major hotels and casinos have camera all over the parking lots.  They caught a guy who murdered someone at the Silverton with the cameras in the parking lot. No matter what I think they both did this together.  They both definitley had motives.  I don't think there is any doubt that they did this but to what extent each one participated is the big question.   I wonder if Pinnacle is sending him supplements in jail.

agree, to what extent each one participated 'is' the case.

[RJW1966]

The warrant stated that on Dec. 17, Titus told a business associate "I'm guilty" and said he intended to go to Boston where a bodybuilder friend would help him liquidate his assets so he could flee to a country with no extradition treaty with the United States.

Wow, how could anyone be so dumb as to admit to ANYONE, family or friend, of committing a murder. I don't care how much a "friend" someone is, when you are sitting across from the FBI and being asked questions about a murder you TELL the TRUTH to get yourself as far away from being in anyway remotely connected. Ain't no one got your back on this type a deal.

[240 is Back]

If you REALLY wanted to punish someone- there would be no death worse than being burned alive.

Perhaps this played into Craig's mind... he wanted the girl to suffer beyond belief?

If so, I can see why they want the death penalty. This case may have taken a sicker turn than expected... 

[bigdumbbell]

oh my god  240 burned alive ?
 
are you suggesting the reason there are no scratches or
blood evidence because she was simply assaulted and encased with duct tape while alive and pitched into the truck and burned alive ?

YES OR NO ?

[NubianMuscle]

oh my god  240 burned alive ?

Read the December 23, 2005 Las Vegas Review-Journal article again.

According to the coroner's report, an autopsy revealed that Melissa James died from asphyxiation.

The statement by Phil Hernon's source that Titus "taped her whole head in duct tape" would tend to support that finding. If the source is correct, Melissa would have been dead long before Titus torched the car.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2005/Dec-23-Fri-2005/news/5034653.html

[bigdumbbell]

he sure taped her mouth shut

[LurkerNoMore]

But is just someone stealing from you a bad enough reason to actually commit murder?  Think about it.

The theory that she was OD'd is much more believable.  That she OD'd and Craig/Kelly paniced knowing that news like that would bring heat on them with possible police trouble and sponsorship loss and quite possibly they were high too and not thinking and were simply trying to make the problem disappear.

I don't know, but it will really be interesting when all the facts come out.

[pumpster]

It would have looked a lot better for them if they'd arranged for her to OD. Because the body wasn't totally burned, in part because of the tape around her, they were able to determine that she died from strangulation.

[G o a t b o y]

The theory that she was OD'd is much more believable.  That she OD'd and Craig/Kelly paniced knowing that news like that would bring heat on them with possible police trouble and sponsorship loss and quite possibly they were high too and not thinking and were simply trying to make the problem disappear.

That's what I thought when the rumors first surfaced, but that scenario really doesn't seem to fit the facts at this point.

[Ozark]

"  Craig panicked because the damage was already done and he would be going to prison. He broke up a few vials of Nubain, poured it in her mouth, stckk gauze in her mouth, taped her whole head in duct tape, then put gauze on the tape to help it burn faster. "


Maybe the " gauze" (mentioned above) that was put on top of the duct tape,  eventually slid down, and was the white fabric that was found around her neck, that was mentioned in the report ?

[G o a t b o y]

Hey 240!

We've got a job for you...

Break in to the Clark County DA's office, make copies of the case files on Titus and Ryan, and post them up on your website.

That's the only real way the true facts will come to light prior to the trial.

[LurkerNoMore]

Hey 240!

We've got a job for you...

Break in to the Clark County DA's office, make copies of the case files on Titus and Ryan, and post them up on your website.

That's the only real way the true facts will come to light prior to the trial.

His site hits would go off the charts then.

[marsunit]

At @ 3:30am, Gross met them at Wall-Mart (on tape), followed CT and KR to a gas station(On tape) filled up the can, drove to the desert and Craig lit the car on fire. There are phone records proving these facts.

(first time poster, long time on/off guest)

Puts a whole new light on Gross' involvement. Initial reports of merely handing over a gas can in the desert to Titus and driving him back wouldn't necessarily mean he knew about a murder. A lot easier to prove accessory being seen at Wallmart loading stuff in the back seat of the Jag."er..again, why won't this stuff fit in the trunk?" I smell a plea bargain not surprisingly.

Also, painkillers for the victim? just gets stranger all the time

[bigdumbbell]

"  Craig panicked because the damage was already done and he would be going to prison. He broke up a few vials of Nubain, poured it in her mouth, stckk gauze in her mouth, taped her whole head in duct tape, then put gauze on the tape to help it burn faster. "


Maybe the " gauze" (mentioned above) that was put on top of the duct tape,  eventually slid down, and was the white fabric that was found around her neck, that was mentioned in the report ?

 

something was ligated around her neck/throat could have been gauze slippage

[240 is Back]

I smell a plea bargain not surprisingly.

Word is, it's already done... 

[Tre]

If she was found bound, tied & gagged in the trunk, it seems pretty logical that she was alive when she went in there. They said the cause of death was asphyxiation. It's quite possible the smoke from the burning vehicle prevented any oxygen from getting into her lungs. And if her face was completely wrapped in duct tape, that too would have hindered her ability to breathe.

1) Logic has almost *nothing* to do with this case

2) Asphyxiation could've been caused by any number of things - it's entirely possible that was dead for quite some time before allegedly being tied up

[onlyme]

What I don't understand is why burn an already dead body.....in your own Jaguar.   There are a million other ways easier and less noticeable than burning your car with the body in the back.  Jeez, they could have put her in a big sack or something rented a boat at Lake Mead and casually throw her in the water with a bunch of weights tied to her.  She would have sunk to the bottom and who knows how long it would be ebfore anyone would discover her if at all.  Just very stupid from the beginning.  Defintiely judgement calls from a deranged drug addict(s).

[G o a t b o y]

Word is, it's already done... 

Which one of them got the plea?

[Tre]

What I don't understand is why burn an already dead body.....in your own Jaguar.   There are a million other ways easier and less noticeable than burning your car with the body in the back.  Jeez, they could have put her in a big sack or something rented a boat at Lake Mead and casually throw her in the water with a bunch of weights tied to her.  She would have sunk to the bottom and who knows how long it would be ebfore anyone would discover her if at all.  Just very stupid from the beginning.  Defintiely judgement calls from a deranged drug addict(s).

They were eager to cover up whatever it was that led to the young woman's death.  Whether it was choking on her own vomit due to a drug OD, erotic asphyxia gone too far, or a fight that ended with one person dead, it most likely happened in Craig & Kelly's home and at that point, they came up with a ridiculous plan to make it *look* as though she had been 'murdered' someplace else. 

In risk vs reward vs penalty after the death, they took a very stupid risk and there will be a price to pay.

[240 is Back]

Which one of them got the plea?

Gross.

[G o a t b o y]

Gross.

That's old news.

If he was not involved in this until the "body disposal" phase, then he would have no first-hand knowledge of the actual murder and who did it and the circumstances surrounding it.