What A Weird Pope You Have There

[mac33]

So, with that said


Will only Christians and Jews be "saved"?


What about Pastafarians, Satanists, Asatro-practicioners (Old Norse), Hellenic Polytheists, Taoists, Hinduists, Buddhists et al?

Best of answers, probably not. You can not say: "I do not know you" or "I deny you exist", to God and then expect to be with Him in His kingdom for eternity.

Jesus himself said many times he is the only way to the Father and that many will be denied entry to his kingdom.

That is the problem nowadays, few priests and bishops want to speak about the truth or better said, are permitted.

The core of catholic faith and rest of christianity is your personal relationship with God, it starts and ends there.

While you are walking in flesh and blood you have time to accept Him and repent, after that it is game over.

[Kwon]

Best of answers, probably not. You can not say: "I do not know you" or "I deny you exist", to God and then expect to be with Him in his kingdom for eternity.

Jesus himself said many times he is the only way to the Father and that many will be denied entry to his kingdom.

That is the problem nowadays, few priests and bishops want to speak about the truth or better said, are permitted.

The core of catholic faith and rest of christianity is your personal relationship with God, it starts and ends there.

While you are walking in flesh and blood you have time to accept Him and repent, after that it is game over.

But some of them do believe in a God, just in another form, take Odin for example.

Say for example Odin is God and Thor, Tyr, Baldur and the rest are just other names of the Archangels Michael, Gabriel et al

[mac33]

First commandment says it all, there is no half truth, only the Truth.

To convert means something for a reason, if I say it otherwise I am at blame for anyone who deters from Him, if I painted a pretty picture of all inclusive deal with my words.

There is Gods Mercy and Divine judgement and the latter you don`t want to get a deal of...

[hardgainerj]

He is the new covenant, you are right in that but that does not reduce the importance of Jews as the chosen people, even if they fall short in the relation to their true Messiah.

the Jews did fall short even though they witnessed Jesus prediction of their temple

The jew is now just like the gentile one either accept Jesus as the Christ or one does not

I speculate that the reason  some churches hold this liberal view despite the Bible is considered progressive in its  course, churches like the evangical, non-denominational, etc hold this doctrine as a desingenious attempt to convert the Jewish people into Christians though these same denominations believe the chosen people will meet hellfire if they don't change their attitudes during jesus's second round

[Kwon]

I can accept Jesus as the Christ as long as Falcon will be playing Contraband Wilson at the Pearly Gates.

[mac33]

You sure about that? 

[Kwon]

You sure about that? 

Best song ever performed! Could listen to that Angelic voice for ages!


Everyone's morningalarm should be this beautiful (and powerful, soulful) song!

Can watch Marty do some boxing here too

[SOMEPARTS]

[Van_Bilderass]

The view of collective guilt that is transmittable from generation to generation is farthest you can go from Christ.

Fallen state is the default of all humans and salvation is possible through Christ alone, whether you are a Jew or not.

I'm just trying to understand this relation of Jews to Christians in Catholicism. It seems to me Jews are blessed in a way even while holding very anti-Christian views. Unlike followers of other religions. I read that before the second council Jews were viewed as sort of cursed to "wander alone" but after they could still be blessed even while holding on to their traditional faith. But the Babylonian Talmud says Christ is boiling in a vat of excrement for all eternity. This book apparently the Catholic Church worked hard to preserve over the centuries.

Observing the Jewish community it seems to me they, as a group, hold Catholicism in particular in extreme contempt.
They completely lost their shit when they heard that Mel Gibson was doing the Christ movie. They condemned the movie in no uncertain terms as antisemitic even before it was released. Do you think Mel made it as an antisemitic statement, was it unfaithful to scripture?

I know collective guilt was a feature in the OT at least. Subsequent generations would pay for the sins of the forefathers. The bible passage the Jews had a major problem with in Mel's movie was this:

"So when Pilate saw that he was gaining nothing, but rather that a riot was beginning, he took water and washed his hands before the crowd, saying "I am innocent of this man’s blood; see to it yourselves." And all the people answered, "His blood be on us and on our children!""

Regarding Jewish hate towards Catholicism, this classic quote from a pornographer comes to mind:

[IroNat]

Goldstein's probably relished recruiting Catholic girls for his porn.

However, lots of Jewish girls do porn too.

[BB]

Penn from "Penn and Teller" paid for Goldstein's care, etc.... for a few years before he died. I will say, having seen Goldstein in public a couple of times, he was exactly like his imagine in real life, tremendously cranky, but very funny.

[Humble Narcissist]

Goldstein's probably relished recruiting Catholic girls for his porn.

However, lots of Jewish girls do porn too.

He also relished inter racial porn.

[The Scott]

Judaism and Catholicism share a ridiculous "love" for ceremonial foo foo.  Trust me on this.

As for Jews and porn?  A pervert is a pervert regardless of the faith they have chosen not to obey. 

[IroNat]

I'm just trying to understand this relation of Jews to Christians in Catholicism. It seems to me Jews are blessed in a way even while holding very anti-Christian views. Unlike followers of other religions. I read that before the second council Jews were viewed as sort of cursed to "wander alone" but after they could still be blessed even while holding on to their traditional faith. But the Babylonian Talmud says Christ is boiling in a vat of excrement for all eternity. This book apparently the Catholic Church worked hard to preserve over the centuries.

Observing the Jewish community it seems to me they, as a group, hold Catholicism in particular in extreme contempt.
They completely lost their shit when they heard that Mel Gibson was doing the Christ movie. They condemned the movie in no uncertain terms as antisemitic even before it was released. Do you think Mel made it as an antisemitic statement, was it unfaithful to scripture?

I know collective guilt was a feature in the OT at least. Subsequent generations would pay for the sins of the forefathers. The bible passage the Jews had a major problem with in Mel's movie was this:

"So when Pilate saw that he was gaining nothing, but rather that a riot was beginning, he took water and washed his hands before the crowd, saying "I am innocent of this man’s blood; see to it yourselves." And all the people answered, "His blood be on us and on our children!""

Regarding Jewish hate towards Catholicism, this classic quote from a pornographer comes to mind:

The Jews really made a bonehead move when they asked for Jesus crucifixion.  They wish they could take that one back.  How about a do-over?  A Mulligan?

The thing is, Jesus crucifixion was pre-ordained by God.  It had to happen to save man.  Fate. 

God, the master of the universe, He who knows all, allows his only Son to be cruelly tortured and killed to save man, who he created, from original sin: the eating of the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge by Adam and Eve.

So, from that standpoint, the Jews were only fulfilling God's will.  They had no choice...because the omnipotent God loves man so much he lets his only Son be tortured and killed...because the omnipotent God makes a creature called Man and gives him free will to screw up, which since He's omnipotent and all knowing, knew would happen, but He made this creature anyway, and his Son gets killed which He knew would happen, but he did it anyway which is kind of illogical, but He's God so he does whatever He wants, thank you very much.

Sorry for the run-on sentence.

Now, if you really believe that makes any sense I have a bridge to sell you.  Well, He did let the Jews suffer in Egypt all those years so what can you expect from Him/Her (PC in effect).

And you thought Scientology was nuts, which it is, along with Mormonism, which also believes in Space Aliens and some guy finding gold plates in a hill in western NY but nobody ever saw them except him, etc. and an ancient civilization just like the Old Testament except living in America... Right.  Hmm...nowadays Space Aliens seems likely.

Now as to Jesus, he was a great guy and the world would be a better place if we all followed his teachings, which even the original Christian religion, the Catholics, only rarely do, because Man is a creature of weakness.

[Van_Bilderass]

Now as to Jesus, he was a great guy and the world would be a better place if we all followed his teachings, which even the original Christian religion, the Catholics, only rarely do, because Man is a creature of weakness.

My view is that Jesus' words in the bible are relatively brief. Man built this huge edifice around it and since Jesus refused to answer questions since, on what he really meant by this or that proclamation, man has fought over scripture ever since. My rational brain says the whole thing is completely absurd, and to construct a faith on this requires just that, faith*, not logic. That was part of my questions to Pellius, how much of Christianity requires revealed knowledge as opposed to rational thinking. I mean lots of Christians talk about this sort of white light moment where the truth is revealed to you, often after prayer.

* Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
 -Hebrews, 11:1

That's why debating religion, to me, seems to require a whole new language. Debating it logically does not seem to work, which ironically is what I'm doing here lol.

[IroNat]

My view is that Jesus' words in the bible are relatively brief. Man built this huge edifice around it and since Jesus refused to answer questions since, on what he really meant by this or that proclamation, man has fought over scripture ever since. My rational brain says the whole thing is completely absurd, and to construct a faith on this requires just that, faith, not logic. That was part of my questions to Pellius, how much of Christianity requires revealed knowledge as opposed to rational thinking. I mean lots of Christians talk about this sort of white light moment where the truth is revealed to you, often after prayer.

Right, any tough question is answered with "You have to have faith".

>

Q: "But, why would God let his only Son, who he loved, be cruelly tortured...it makes no sense."

A: "You have to have faith.  God knows what He's doing".

[Kwon]

Wouldn't mind being taken care of by Penn Gillette during my twilight years.


He apparently paid for his flat!

[Humble Narcissist]

Right, any tough question is answered with "You have to have faith".

>

Q: "But, why would God let his only Son who he loved, be cruelly tortured...it makes no sense."

A: "You have to have faith.  God knows what He's doing".

His only son was actually himself in the flesh.  The Trinity and all.

[Megalodon]

I'm just trying to understand this relation of Jews to Christians in Catholicism. It seems to me Jews are blessed in a way even while holding very anti-Christian views. Unlike followers of other religions. I read that before the second council Jews were viewed as sort of cursed to "wander alone" but after they could still be blessed even while holding on to their traditional faith. But the Babylonian Talmud says Christ is boiling in a vat of excrement for all eternity. This book apparently the Catholic Church worked hard to preserve over the centuries.

Observing the Jewish community it seems to me they, as a group, hold Catholicism in particular in extreme contempt.
They completely lost their shit when they heard that Mel Gibson was doing the Christ movie. They condemned the movie in no uncertain terms as antisemitic even before it was released. Do you think Mel made it as an antisemitic statement, was it unfaithful to scripture?

I know collective guilt was a feature in the OT at least. Subsequent generations would pay for the sins of the forefathers. The bible passage the Jews had a major problem with in Mel's movie was this:

"So when Pilate saw that he was gaining nothing, but rather that a riot was beginning, he took water and washed his hands before the crowd, saying "I am innocent of this man’s blood; see to it yourselves." And all the people answered, "His blood be on us and on our children!""

Regarding Jewish hate towards Catholicism, this classic quote from a pornographer comes to mind:

Good points. Most Christians think the difference between Jewish and Christian beliefs is that the Jews believe in the Old Testament and the Christians believe in the New Testament.

For those that haven't looked into it, the Torah is the first 5 books of Moses which are Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

The Tanakh aka the Miqra would be the equivalent of the Old Testament, which includes the Torah within it.

Then, there's the Talmud which usually means the Babylonian Talmud(Tzoah Rotachat is related to the Jesus reference) but there's also the Jerusalem Talmud.

Also, the Kabbalah, Zohar, Lurianic Kabbalah, Gematria.....

Plus, there were messianic movements like Sabbateanism and to a lesser degree Frankism, among others.

On the Christian side, the Scofield Bible aka Scofield Reference Bible or Scofield Study Bible has more recently influenced a lot of evangelical Christians towards Zionism.

Scofield's research and publishing was funded by Samuel Gompers, Fiorello LaGuardia, Abraham Straus, Bernard Baruch and Jacob Schiff who were all Jewish.

Also, the modern neo-conservative movement(former Trotsky-ite Irving Kristol started) has equated the support and defense of Israel with American patriotism. There has also been an effective effort having Christians use the term Judeo-Christianity. There is also a Jewish movement(obviously not all Jews) to eventually have Christians(and all non-Jews) denounce their own religions and follow 7 Noahide laws(out of the 600+ which Jews are to follow).

[hardgainerj]

His only son was actually himself in the flesh.  The Trinity and all.

and he still couldn't convince the jews

[Humble Narcissist]

and he still couldn't convince the jews

He told them their father was the devil.  John 8:44-45 KJV

[hardgainerj]

I'm just trying to understand this relation of Jews to Christians in Catholicism. It seems to me Jews are blessed in a way even while holding very anti-Christian views.

it's probably an apology for the inquisition and it's association with the Nazi party

The vatican has gone as far to remove the name jehovah from bible, hymns etc just to appease the jews

[Kwon]

His only son was actually himself in the flesh.  The Trinity and all.

Still think Lucifer looked better than Jesus

[IroNat]

His only son was actually himself in the flesh.  The Trinity and all.

Right.  That makes total sense now.

You gotta have faith.

[mac33]

Right.  That makes total sense now.

You gotta have faith.

Yes, you are right, strange thing this faith, right?