Author Topic: The F.B.I. Has Raided 🇺🇸Trump’s🇺🇸Home  (Read 80133 times)

Primemuscle

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Re: The F.B.I. Has Raided 🇺🇸Trump’s🇺🇸Home
« Reply #625 on: September 07, 2022, 01:37:25 PM »
You are missing the point.  You cannot talk about classification and de-classification when it comes to the POTUS without talking about his broad and unilateral discretion to declassify anything at any time.  He doesn't have to keep declassified documents in a SCIF or any kind of filing cabinet.  He doesn't have to make a list.  It doesn't matter if his aids remember anything, although Kash Patel does remember.  But it doesn't matter if none of his aids remember, because he doesn't have to tell them anything.

You might want to read the Presidential Records Act of 1978 which was amended in 2014.
https://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/1978-act.html

What is the definition of records under the Presidential and Federal Records Act Amendments of 2014?
(2) The term “Presidential records” means documentary materials, or any reasonably. segregable portion thereof, created or received by the President, his the President's immediate. staff, or a unit or individual of the Executive Office of the President whose function is to advise. Dec 11, 2014

8. Could Trump have declassified the removed documents?
Presidents do have ultimate decision-making power over the classification of documents, and Trump could theoretically have declassified any records he removed from the White House. Indeed, former Trump National Security Council member Kash Patel has claimed Trump did just that before leaving office. There is no set procedure for presidential declassification, meaning that could be the basis for a defense if a case proceeds against Trump. But even if Trump was found to have declassified documents, he could still potentially be prosecuted for removing or destroying them. And Richard Painter, chief White House ethics lawyer under President George W. Bush, points out that declassification of documents for an improper purpose could be a crime in itself. “If he declassified documents in order to remove them and destroy them, he’s destroying evidence, and that’s obstruction of justice or obstruction of Congress,” Painter said.

https://www.congress.gov/93/statute/STATUTE-88/STATUTE-88-Pg1695-2.pdf

Questions and answers about automatic declassification;
https://www.justice.gov/archives/open/declassification/declassification-faq#:~:text=EQUATE%20AUTOMATIC%20DISCLOSURE%3F-,No.,disclosure%20of%20records%20or%20information.

Public Records Act:

"Every president, when they leave office, those records that have been created by the president and his staff are presidential records that go to the National Archives," Baron said. "The owner is the American people."

The PRA thus makes clear that only the United States (and not former President Trump) owns and is authorized to possess and control the presidential documents.

The PRA gives a former president certain rights to access and limit access to the documents in the possession of the United States, but it rules out the possibility of a former president possessing presidential records after his presidential term.

This includes all presidential material, whether it's routine, unclassified notes or top-secret national security documents.


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Re: The F.B.I. Has Raided 🇺🇸Trump’s🇺🇸Home
« Reply #626 on: September 07, 2022, 05:50:04 PM »
You might want to read the Presidential Records Act of 1978 which was amended in 2014.
https://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/1978-act.html

What is the definition of records under the Presidential and Federal Records Act Amendments of 2014?
(2) The term “Presidential records” means documentary materials, or any reasonably. segregable portion thereof, created or received by the President, his the President's immediate. staff, or a unit or individual of the Executive Office of the President whose function is to advise. Dec 11, 2014

8. Could Trump have declassified the removed documents?
Presidents do have ultimate decision-making power over the classification of documents, and Trump could theoretically have declassified any records he removed from the White House. Indeed, former Trump National Security Council member Kash Patel has claimed Trump did just that before leaving office. There is no set procedure for presidential declassification, meaning that could be the basis for a defense if a case proceeds against Trump. But even if Trump was found to have declassified documents, he could still potentially be prosecuted for removing or destroying them. And Richard Painter, chief White House ethics lawyer under President George W. Bush, points out that declassification of documents for an improper purpose could be a crime in itself. “If he declassified documents in order to remove them and destroy them, he’s destroying evidence, and that’s obstruction of justice or obstruction of Congress,” Painter said.

https://www.congress.gov/93/statute/STATUTE-88/STATUTE-88-Pg1695-2.pdf

Questions and answers about automatic declassification;
https://www.justice.gov/archives/open/declassification/declassification-faq#:~:text=EQUATE%20AUTOMATIC%20DISCLOSURE%3F-,No.,disclosure%20of%20records%20or%20information.

Public Records Act:

"Every president, when they leave office, those records that have been created by the president and his staff are presidential records that go to the National Archives," Baron said. "The owner is the American people."

The PRA thus makes clear that only the United States (and not former President Trump) owns and is authorized to possess and control the presidential documents.

The PRA gives a former president certain rights to access and limit access to the documents in the possession of the United States, but it rules out the possibility of a former president possessing presidential records after his presidential term.

This includes all presidential material, whether it's routine, unclassified notes or top-secret national security documents.
In red is what Dos has been saying this whole time, glad your source agrees with him. Looks like another TDS induced witch hunt. ::)
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

Dos Equis

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Re: The F.B.I. Has Raided 🇺🇸Trump’s🇺🇸Home
« Reply #627 on: September 07, 2022, 07:25:27 PM »
In red is what Dos has been saying this whole time, glad your source agrees with him. Looks like another TDS induced witch hunt. ::)

Yep.  Thank you.

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Re: The F.B.I. Has Raided 🇺🇸Trump’s🇺🇸Home
« Reply #628 on: September 07, 2022, 07:57:18 PM »
You might want to read the Presidential Records Act of 1978 which was amended in 2014.
https://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/1978-act.html

What is the definition of records under the Presidential and Federal Records Act Amendments of 2014?
(2) The term “Presidential records” means documentary materials, or any reasonably. segregable portion thereof, created or received by the President, his the President's immediate. staff, or a unit or individual of the Executive Office of the President whose function is to advise. Dec 11, 2014

8. Could Trump have declassified the removed documents?
Presidents do have ultimate decision-making power over the classification of documents, and Trump could theoretically have declassified any records he removed from the White House. Indeed, former Trump National Security Council member Kash Patel has claimed Trump did just that before leaving office. There is no set procedure for presidential declassification, meaning that could be the basis for a defense if a case proceeds against Trump. But even if Trump was found to have declassified documents, he could still potentially be prosecuted for removing or destroying them. And Richard Painter, chief White House ethics lawyer under President George W. Bush, points out that declassification of documents for an improper purpose could be a crime in itself. “If he declassified documents in order to remove them and destroy them, he’s destroying evidence, and that’s obstruction of justice or obstruction of Congress,” Painter said.

https://www.congress.gov/93/statute/STATUTE-88/STATUTE-88-Pg1695-2.pdf

Questions and answers about automatic declassification;
https://www.justice.gov/archives/open/declassification/declassification-faq#:~:text=EQUATE%20AUTOMATIC%20DISCLOSURE%3F-,No.,disclosure%20of%20records%20or%20information.

Public Records Act:

"Every president, when they leave office, those records that have been created by the president and his staff are presidential records that go to the National Archives," Baron said. "The owner is the American people."

The PRA thus makes clear that only the United States (and not former President Trump) owns and is authorized to possess and control the presidential documents.

The PRA gives a former president certain rights to access and limit access to the documents in the possession of the United States, but it rules out the possibility of a former president possessing presidential records after his presidential term.

This includes all presidential material, whether it's routine, unclassified notes or top-secret national security documents.


Strange you Manage To Highlight so much
Yet Miss This Part

There is no set procedure for presidential declassification

Mere Oversight Perhaps.   ::)


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Re: The F.B.I. Has Raided 🇺🇸Trump’s🇺🇸Home
« Reply #629 on: September 08, 2022, 02:33:44 AM »

Strange you Manage To Highlight so much
Yet Miss This Part

There is no set procedure for presidential declassification

Mere Oversight Perhaps.   ::)


TDS in Full Flight
:D

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Re: The F.B.I. Has Raided 🇺🇸Trump’s🇺🇸Home
« Reply #630 on: September 08, 2022, 03:56:58 AM »
You are missing the point.  You cannot talk about classification and de-classification when it comes to the POTUS without talking about his broad and unilateral discretion to declassify anything at any time.  He doesn't have to keep declassified documents in a SCIF or any kind of filing cabinet.  He doesn't have to make a list.  It doesn't matter if his aids remember anything, although Kash Patel does remember.  But it doesn't matter if none of his aids remember, because he doesn't have to tell them anything.

There has to be evidence that the material was declassified.  There. Is. None.

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Re: The F.B.I. Has Raided 🇺🇸Trump’s🇺🇸Home
« Reply #631 on: September 08, 2022, 02:34:49 PM »
There has to be evidence that the material was declassified.  There. Is. None.

The only evidence required is Trump saying he declassified.  He said it. That's evidence.  Nothing else is required.

Dos Equis

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Re: The F.B.I. Has Raided 🇺🇸Trump’s🇺🇸Home
« Reply #632 on: September 08, 2022, 03:41:55 PM »
DOJ appeals special master ruling in Trump documents probe
BY REBECCA BEITSCH - 09/08/22
https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/3634802-doj-appeals-special-master-ruling-in-trump-documents-probe/

Primemuscle

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Re: The F.B.I. Has Raided 🇺🇸Trump’s🇺🇸Home
« Reply #633 on: September 08, 2022, 03:56:10 PM »
In red is what Dos has been saying this whole time, glad your source agrees with him. Looks like another TDS induced witch hunt. ::)

Well the Presidential Records Act is a good source of information. One that Attorneys will use to argue their case. Unfortunately, for Trump there are other issues with taking and holding these documents whether classified or not.

Presidential Records Act of 1978 which was amended in 2014.
https://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/1978-act.html

What is the definition of records under the Presidential and Federal Records Act Amendments of 2014?
(2) The term “Presidential records” means documentary materials, or any reasonably. segregable portion thereof, created or received by the President, his the President's immediate. staff, or a unit or individual of the Executive Office of the President whose function is to advise. Dec 11, 2014

8. Could Trump have declassified the removed documents?
Presidents do have ultimate decision-making power over the classification of documents, and Trump could theoretically have declassified any records he removed from the White House. Indeed, former Trump National Security Council member Kash Patel has claimed Trump did just that before leaving office. There is no set procedure for presidential declassification, meaning that could be the basis for a defense if a case proceeds against Trump. But even if Trump was found to have declassified documents, he could still potentially be prosecuted for removing or destroying them. And Richard Painter, chief White House ethics lawyer under President George W. Bush, points out that declassification of documents for an improper purpose could be a crime in itself. “If he declassified documents in order to remove them and destroy them, he’s destroying evidence, and that’s obstruction of justice or obstruction of Congress,” Painter said.


 

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Re: The F.B.I. Has Raided 🇺🇸Trump’s🇺🇸Home
« Reply #634 on: September 08, 2022, 04:44:45 PM »
Well the Presidential Records Act is a good source of information. One that Attorneys will use to argue their case. Unfortunately, for Trump there are other issues with taking and holding these documents whether classified or not.

Presidential Records Act of 1978 which was amended in 2014.
https://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/1978-act.html

What is the definition of records under the Presidential and Federal Records Act Amendments of 2014?
(2) The term “Presidential records” means documentary materials, or any reasonably. segregable portion thereof, created or received by the President, his the President's immediate. staff, or a unit or individual of the Executive Office of the President whose function is to advise. Dec 11, 2014

8. Could Trump have declassified the removed documents?
Presidents do have ultimate decision-making power over the classification of documents, and Trump could theoretically have declassified any records he removed from the White House. Indeed, former Trump National Security Council member Kash Patel has claimed Trump did just that before leaving office. There is no set procedure for presidential declassification, meaning that could be the basis for a defense if a case proceeds against Trump. But even if Trump was found to have declassified documents, he could still potentially be prosecuted for removing or destroying them. And Richard Painter, chief White House ethics lawyer under President George W. Bush, points out that declassification of documents for an improper purpose could be a crime in itself. “If he declassified documents in order to remove them and destroy them, he’s destroying evidence, and that’s obstruction of justice or obstruction of Congress,” Painter said.


 

So when do you think they’ll raid Clinton and Obama’s homes? Better yet, what do you think would be found if they did a legit vetting of the Clinton’s, Obama’s and Biden’s the same way they did with Trump?

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Re: The F.B.I. Has Raided 🇺🇸Trump’s🇺🇸Home
« Reply #635 on: September 08, 2022, 04:59:39 PM »
Well the Presidential Records Act is a good source of information. One that Attorneys will use to argue their case. Unfortunately, for Trump there are other issues with taking and holding these documents whether classified or not.

Presidential Records Act of 1978 which was amended in 2014.
https://www.archives.gov/presidential-libraries/laws/1978-act.html

What is the definition of records under the Presidential and Federal Records Act Amendments of 2014?
(2) The term “Presidential records” means documentary materials, or any reasonably. segregable portion thereof, created or received by the President, his the President's immediate. staff, or a unit or individual of the Executive Office of the President whose function is to advise. Dec 11, 2014

8. Could Trump have declassified the removed documents?
Presidents do have ultimate decision-making power over the classification of documents, and Trump could theoretically have declassified any records he removed from the White House. Indeed, former Trump National Security Council member Kash Patel has claimed Trump did just that before leaving office. There is no set procedure for presidential declassification, meaning that could be the basis for a defense if a case proceeds against Trump. But even if Trump was found to have declassified documents, he could still potentially be prosecuted for removing or destroying them. And Richard Painter, chief White House ethics lawyer under President George W. Bush, points out that declassification of documents for an improper purpose could be a crime in itself. “If he declassified documents in order to remove them and destroy them, he’s destroying evidence, and that’s obstruction of justice or obstruction of Congress,” Painter said.


 
There's a few big "ifs" that need to be proven in that drivel of a paragraph there.
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

Primemuscle

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Re: The F.B.I. Has Raided 🇺🇸Trump’s🇺🇸Home
« Reply #636 on: September 08, 2022, 05:29:07 PM »
So when do you think they’ll raid Clinton and Obama’s homes? Better yet, what do you think would be found if they did a legit vetting of the Clinton’s, Obama’s and Biden’s the same way they did with Trump?

Unfortunately for Trump, if or when the feds served search warrants and/or did a 'legit vetting' on those three folks 'the same way they did with Trump' regardless of what was found it would not provide Trump a defense or affect his case. I'm a bit surprised you admitted here that the feds did a legitimate vetting of Trump. I imagined you think his was illegitimate.

Do you think a 'but, but they did it too' defense would get very far? I tried that tactic years ago when I was stopped for speeding and I told the Highway Patrol that everyone else was going the same speed as me, I was still ticketed - and I also had to pay the fine.  :)

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Re: The F.B.I. Has Raided 🇺🇸Trump’s🇺🇸Home
« Reply #637 on: September 08, 2022, 05:40:18 PM »
Unfortunately for Trump, if or when the feds served search warrants and/or did a 'legit vetting' on those three folks 'the same way they did with Trump' regardless of what was found it would not provide Trump a defense or affect his case. I'm a bit surprised you admitted here that the feds did a legitimate vetting of Trump. I imagined you think his was illegitimate.

Do you think a 'but, but they did it too' defense would get very far? I tried that tactic years ago when I was stopped for speeding and I told the Highway Patrol that everyone else was going the same speed as me, I was still ticketed - and I also had to pay the fine.  :)

And you actually believe this? Maybe I should replace vetting with investigations

Primemuscle

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Re: The F.B.I. Has Raided 🇺🇸Trump’s🇺🇸Home
« Reply #638 on: September 08, 2022, 06:29:06 PM »
And you actually believe this? Maybe I should replace vetting with investigations

Actually believe what?

I simply answered your question. Replacing the word vetting with investigations changes nothing because they have the same meaning. Vetting is the process of thoroughly investigating something or someone.
 

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Re: The F.B.I. Has Raided Trump’sHome
« Reply #639 on: September 08, 2022, 07:06:09 PM »
"Vetting" is no more than a word when reason and  proof are lacking in said process.  Trust me on this.  Or...NOT.

Those among us who are little more than an Asstrich will say, "But Scott!  You've got a room temp IQ, what could I possibly learn from you?"  Answer -  The Truth. 

But you really do not need me to show you the way, open your eyes to the truth of their lies.  And therein lies the problem.   Being an Asstrich means you've got your head so far up your own ass you can't see anything but shit.

"But Trump is a meanie!  Waaaaah!"  So then, you prefer indentured servitude to being Energy Independent, taking home more of your hard earned money, having criminals put in jail and kept there because Mr. Trump is "mean"?

Nubainian, puhleeeeeeeeeeze!

I suggest you move to Russia or some islime-ic pigsty.  The former will lock you up and the latter will feed you a constant diet of head-cheese.   

I am correct because what I say is truth and not because it is I saying it.  Move to an islime-ic kuntry. I hope Oak does and that he dies there from semen overload.  Fuckin' liar that he is.

Anyone that disagrees with the truth and prefers this regime over Mr. Trump's presidency is a cuck of the worst order.

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Re: The F.B.I. Has Raided 🇺🇸Trump’s🇺🇸Home
« Reply #640 on: September 08, 2022, 07:25:34 PM »
The only evidence required is Trump saying he declassified.  He said it. That's evidence.  Nothing else is required.

There is more to the process. Declassified docs are stamped to show it.

Former Spy Assesses Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Documents


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Re: The F.B.I. Has Raided 🇺🇸Trump’s🇺🇸Home
« Reply #641 on: September 08, 2022, 07:46:04 PM »
There is more to the process. Declassified docs are stamped to show it.

Former Spy Assesses Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Documents



No there isn't when it comes to the POTUS.  This "former spy" never once mentioned the president's authority to declassify anything.  That alone discredits him. 

And if he is saying classified markings are always removed, he is lying.  Does not always happen.  He is talking about what typically happens with everyone other than the POTUS. 

The whole cloak and dagger car conversation is a joke. 

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Re: The F.B.I. Has Raided 🇺🇸Trump’s🇺🇸Home
« Reply #642 on: September 09, 2022, 06:50:31 AM »
Prime is obsessed with Trump. Prime “hates” him (really he wishes with a desperation that he had Trumps life) - because Trump is a successful man whose kids love him and don’t fear for their kids because of any pedo tendencies. Trump may or may not be a good husband, but as far as I know he hasn’t abandoned his wife to suffer because he didn’t have time to be bored by sitting and comforting her when their were filthy bathroom floors he could kneel on and suck whatever came through the hole in the stall. Trump is a brilliant businessman regardless of what you think of him - not a janitor (although it’s a fact that pedos get turned on by the smell of juvenile toilets)

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Re: The F.B.I. Has Raided 🇺🇸Trump’s🇺🇸Home
« Reply #643 on: September 09, 2022, 11:14:54 AM »
how will anybody else in now and in the future know which documents have been declassified by Mr trump?

Only it's not just Donald is it ?
The same applies to every other President , You seem to of Overlooked
That simple Fact.  ::)

Primemuscle

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Re: The F.B.I. Has Raided Trump’sHome
« Reply #644 on: September 09, 2022, 12:09:20 PM »
"Vetting" is no more than a word when reason and  proof are lacking in said process.  Trust me on this.  Or...NOT.

Those among us who are little more than an Asstrich will say, "But Scott!  You've got a room temp IQ, what could I possibly learn from you?"  Answer -  The Truth. 

But you really do not need me to show you the way, open your eyes to the truth of their lies.  And therein lies the problem.   Being an Asstrich means you've got your head so far up your own ass you can't see anything but shit.

"But Trump is a meanie!  Waaaaah!"  So then, you prefer indentured servitude to being Energy Independent, taking home more of your hard earned money, having criminals put in jail and kept there because Mr. Trump is "mean"?

Nubainian, puhleeeeeeeeeeze!

I suggest you move to Russia or some islime-ic pigsty.  The former will lock you up and the latter will feed you a constant diet of head-cheese.   

I am correct because what I say is truth and not because it is I saying it.  Move to an islime-ic kuntry. I hope Oak does and that he dies there from semen overload.  Fuckin' liar that he is.

Anyone that disagrees with the truth and prefers this regime over Mr. Trump's presidency is a cuck of the worst order.

“There is not one truth. There is only what happened, based on how you perceived it.” More than ever, perception is reality. The truth is variable, and in many cases, tends to be different for everyone.

Truth is entirely different; it may include fact, but it can also include belief. Oftentimes, people will accept things as true because they fall closer to their comfort zones, are assimilated easily into their comfort zones, or reflect their preconceived notions of reality.

Primemuscle

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Re: The F.B.I. Has Raided 🇺🇸Trump’s🇺🇸Home
« Reply #645 on: September 09, 2022, 12:29:03 PM »
Only it's not just Donald is it ?
The same applies to every other President , You seem to of Overlooked
That simple Fact.  ::)

Why do you suppose Trump's attorney's have not mentioned Trump's claim that all of the documents were declassified or asserted any claim of executive privilege in their court filing to have a special master review them?

Interesting that a lot of folks posting on Getbig continue to talk/argue about Trump having declassified all the documents prior to removing them from the Whitehouse.

Could it be that it is one thing to lie to the public and quite another to lie in court? 

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Re: The F.B.I. Has Raided 🇺🇸Trump’s🇺🇸Home
« Reply #646 on: September 09, 2022, 12:35:39 PM »
Only it's not just Donald is it ?
The same applies to every other President , You seem to of Overlooked
That simple Fact.  ::)

you are right - it does apply to every president so the question is even more pertinent and still looks for an answer
c

Primemuscle

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Re: The F.B.I. Has Raided 🇺🇸Trump’s🇺🇸Home
« Reply #647 on: September 09, 2022, 12:37:35 PM »

Strange you Manage To Highlight so much
Yet Miss This Part

There is no set procedure for presidential declassification

Mere Oversight Perhaps.   ::)


TDS in Full Flight

Not an oversight at all. Why would I argue for the other side? Besides, at this point whether the documents are declassified or not does not seem to be the issue. Otherwise, why did his attorneys neglect to mention the documents classification status or executive privilege in their court filings for a special master. Could it be this cannot be proved one way or the other?   

Primemuscle

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Re: The F.B.I. Has Raided 🇺🇸Trump’s🇺🇸Home
« Reply #648 on: September 09, 2022, 12:42:18 PM »
The only evidence required is Trump saying he declassified.  He said it. That's evidence.  Nothing else is required.

So the fact that his attorneys neglected to mention this to the court, is an oversight. If so, he should hire new attorneys to represent him.

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Re: The F.B.I. Has Raided 🇺🇸Trump’s🇺🇸Home
« Reply #649 on: September 09, 2022, 01:39:07 PM »
The only evidence required is Trump saying he declassified.  He said it. That's evidence.  Nothing else is required.

How do you know he said it?  Given the history of habitual lying he has no credibility. 

On that same note he can’t claim he said with no evidence otherwise.  Saying it NOW is a bit late in the game.