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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Mixed Martial Arts (MMA/UFC) => Topic started by: realkarateblackbelt on January 11, 2007, 10:30:33 PM
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There are quite a few karate fighters competing in the highest levels of martial arts. Some you might not be aware of:
Bas Rutten - 2nd degree TKD, 4th degree Kyokushin, UFC champion, King of Pancrase
Andy Hug - Kyokushinkai, K-1 champion (now deceased)
Georges St. Pierre - kyokushinkai, UFC champion
Semmy Schilt - Wado-Ryo Karate, K-1 champion
Jerome Lebanner - Kyokushin Karate
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Old hat....
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Several cMMA fighters have karate as part of their background, but ALL of them had to seriously expand their skills or get killed...
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Andy Hug is the man, or should i say was the man..... Someone should post some videos of his fights...
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This is my favorite Hug highlight, pretty sad at the end though. Get a glimpse of the respect the guy had, however.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2278829415239643675&q=andy+hug
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Cool clip.
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Cool clip.
One of the best clips I have seen in a while.... I give it a 10 BF good job posting this one buddy.
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Again Karatie is for demos not real fighting!
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Walk into a full-contact karate dojo and tell the instuctor he doesn't know how to fight. You've never encountered a legitimate black belt in Gojo-ryu, Kyokushin, or Shurin-ryu. They go through many real fights - meaning no gloves whatsover before attaining that. It takes 6 years of brutal training. I'm sure Andy Hug, doesn't know how to fight. You're a know nothing. Ask Bas Rutten about Karate. Or GSP. Full-contact Karate is the greatest standup fighting. It's been proven in K-1 and the UFC.
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Again Karatie is for demos not real fighting!
Tell Andy Hug that. If he was around today I'm sure he would gladly break your collar bone with an axe kick.
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Tell Andy Hug that. If he was around today I'm sure he would gladly break your collar bone with an axe kick.
Exactly.
Or walk into any full-contact dojo and tell the guys they don't know how to fight.
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Many of them started with karate at an early age, but once they grow up and realize whats effective and what's not they quickly switch to boxing,thai/kickboxing or grappling...
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Exactly.
Or walk into any full-contact dojo and tell the guys they don't know how to fight.
It's not about know or not know how to fight - it's about effectiveness!
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Kyokushinkai is tough, no doubt. but without allowing punches to the face in competition (and possibly even sparring?) it's limited and in my eyes doesn't qualify as an efficent art. However, it's an excellent background if one would mix it with something else, or start training something else completely.
There's some things that would make it BETTER than most other arts being the use of bareknuckle and, in some variations like Enshin allowing throws etc.
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Full contact karate is proven as the best in K-1 standup fighting. Bas Rutten didn't dabble in karate, he's a fourth degree blackbelt in Kyokushin. They don't just hand those out, you have to earn it through brutal training and bareknuckle fighting. That's why he was so good with those kidney punches in his old fights. They used to allow head punches in Kyokushin kumite, but they stopped it because of serious injuries. They don't use gloves because it changes the way you block, and it's not realistic outside of sports combat. Karate isn't what you see in the movies, or what Bruce Lee says(who NEVER fought any legitimate karate fighter, and had trouble beating a Gung Fu man). It's very practicle. All the kicks in Muay Thai are used plus many more, and a variety of hand strikes, including the jab. It's a complete fighting style, proven time and time to be the best in standup.
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A complete fighting style that doesn't allow punching to the head? Yeah right. And it's nowhere near the best in standup. As for Bas, he's more a thai boxer than anything else, with a record of 14-1 with 14 KO's.
The greatest in K-1 has a thai/kick boxing background, not karate.
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A complete fighting style that doesn't allow punching to the head? Yeah right. And it's nowhere near the best in standup. As for Bas, he's more a thai boxer than anything else, with a record of 14-1 with 14 KO's.
The greatest in K-1 has a thai/kick boxing background, not karate.
Amen. Well said. Both Roufus' change in style from Karate based to Muay Thai may tell people something.
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They punch to the head, just not in kumite. To many injuries. It doesn't make since to fight bareknuckle with headpunches if there's no money in it.
Bas isn't Muay Thai primarily. He's 4th dan and his standup is kyokushin. You don't buy this, you must complete 4 - 6 years of training at least. You seem to think Karate is some flashy stuff where they hold their legs out and do a bunch of spin kicks. It's the opposite. It's very practicle and linear. Semmy, Hug, and Lebanner are/were the top guys in K-1 and they are karate practicioners, not thai fighters. The main difference between karate and kickboxing is the fact that karate has all the hand of foot strikes of kickboxing, plus many more. And they practice bareknuckle without gloves.
Andy Hug(full-contact karate) vs. Cro Cop:
&NR
Kyokushin Karate vs. Wing chun Gung Fu:
Midori Kenji 5th World Champion Kyokushin Karate:
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Bas Rutten interview in Grappling march 2002:
Q: How has your personal fighting style developed over the years?
Bas Rutten:
When I started taekwondo and kyokushin, I already felt that there was more. Even though kyokushin is very tough, there was no hitting to the head. So after six months or so I also started to train in Thai boxing.
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This is a mute point! Obviously the moves most devastating in combat is tai boxing I would never be remotely afraid to fight a karate expert. If some ones been in TB for a year or more they start getting really scary.
And yes karate is linear which makes the moves easy to redirect ;) again no clinch game no ground game no proper punches etc... I could go on all day lol
Trust me I've been that route and found (By getting put in the hospital) that karate just ain't practical anymore it's one notch above TKD for crist sake.
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In defense of Andy Hug, that guy was a Karate prodigy and would probably have been an amazing fighter no matter what art he specialized in.
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This is a mute point! Obviously the moves most devastating in combat is tai boxing I would never be remotely afraid to fight a karate expert. If some ones been in TB for a year or more they start getting really scary.
And yes karate is linear which makes the moves easy to redirect ;) again no clinch game no ground game no proper punches etc... I could go on all day lol
Trust me I've been that route and found (By getting put in the hospital) that karate just ain't practical anymore it's one notch above TKD for crist sake.
I'm talking about standup fighting idiot.
You said you wouldn't be afraid, yet earlier you already lied and claimed you fought and easily defeated a 4th degree blackbelt. You sound very confident, so why don't you go to an old-school Japanese style Kyokushin dojo with your video camera and invite the blackbelts to a fight. I'm sure you wouldn't do that because you're and airmchair fighter.
Many Kyokushin guys compete in sporting events like k-1 because they want to win money and fame, the karate tournaments themselves are just about personal glory. They don't use gloves because it's more realistic than hitting a bag or blocking with bulky gloves. Nathan knows nothing about the style, because they teach all the moves in Muay Thai, and go further than that. The thing is, because it's such a complete standup style it takes a long time to master, but the payoff is greater in the end if you stick to it. Kickboxing focuses on the most effective strikes in sport fighting, karate focuses on these and also the effective moves in streetfighting. Andy Hug knocked the crap out of Mirko because he had a greater aresenal of weapons to use on him. The number of legitimate blackbelts is few, because many people take karate for 2 years only attaining a green belt ranking and tell people their karate blackbelts, misrepresenting the style. Bas is a legitimate Blackbelt as is Hug, TKD is watered down and soft now.
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I'm talking about standup fighting idiot.
You said you wouldn't be afraid, yet earlier you already lied and claimed you fought and easily defeated a 4th degree blackbelt. You sound very confident, so why don't you go to an old-school Japanese style Kyokushin dojo with your video camera and invite the blackbelts to a fight. I'm sure you wouldn't do that because you're and airmchair fighter.
Many Kyokushin guys compete in sporting events like k-1 because they want to win money and fame, the karate tournaments themselves are just about personal glory. They don't use gloves because it's more realistic than hitting a bag or blocking with bulky gloves. Nathan knows nothing about the style, because they teach all the moves in Muay Thai, and go further than that. The thing is, because it's such a complete standup style it takes a long time to master, but the payoff is greater in the end if you stick to it. Kickboxing focuses on the most effective strikes in sport fighting, karate focuses on these and also the effective moves in streetfighting. Andy Hug knocked the crap out of Mirko because he had a greater aresenal of weapons to use on him. The number of legitimate blackbelts is few, because many people take karate for 2 years only attaining a green belt ranking and tell people their karate blackbelts, misrepresenting the style. Bas is a legitimate Blackbelt as is Hug, TKD is watered down and soft now.
Isn't Mirko a Kyoshukin guy? Hug was just better than Mirko. Under MT rules, no one has consistently beaten a Thai unless they themselves practiced MT. Deadliest ringsport, PERIOD.
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I don't think he is.
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Crocop evolved a lot since then. And even when - he lost to decision to Andy after 5 rounds. As for Andy, he's more the exception to the rule, he's not a typical karate guy. And down the road he would pick moves from other styles, incorporate punching in sparring etc.
Why karate would be great for self defense is beyond me. It's got nothing on boxing for example.
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I got a buddy who trains in Kajukembo, and because Chuck used to train in Kajukembo, he says that Kajukembo is the best system. Even when he watches the fights and sees that Chuck doesn't use ANY Kajukembo in the cage (okay he does use the thumbs), he is insistent that everything that Chuck does is PURE Kajukembo. (As if Kajukembo was a pure traditional art to begin with)
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I wasn't aware they don't punch in karate.
Karate uses: Jab, straight punch, back fist, spinning backfist, all elbow strikes, palm strikes, throat strikes, thigh kicks, roundhouse, front kick, back round kick, back kick, side kick, headbutt, knees, and more.
In sport fighting, the most common moves used are jab, straight, roundhouse, knee, and thigh kicks. These moves are tought and performed the same way in karate and kickboxing both. It's been that way forever. Karate is more street though, because they go beyond that and train bareknuckle. It just takes longer to learn because it's a more comprehensive standup style. It worked for Filho, Semmy, Hug, Lebanner, and Bas though in sport fighting.
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I'm talking about standup fighting idiot.
You said you wouldn't be afraid, yet earlier you already lied and claimed you fought and easily defeated a 4th degree blackbelt. You sound very confident, so why don't you go to an old-school Japanese style Kyokushin dojo with your video camera and invite the blackbelts to a fight. I'm sure you wouldn't do that because you're and airmchair fighter.
Many Kyokushin guys compete in sporting events like k-1 because they want to win money and fame, the karate tournaments themselves are just about personal glory. They don't use gloves because it's more realistic than hitting a bag or blocking with bulky gloves. Nathan knows nothing about the style, because they teach all the moves in Muay Thai, and go further than that. The thing is, because it's such a complete standup style it takes a long time to master, but the payoff is greater in the end if you stick to it. Kickboxing focuses on the most effective strikes in sport fighting, karate focuses on these and also the effective moves in streetfighting. Andy Hug knocked the crap out of Mirko because he had a greater aresenal of weapons to use on him. The number of legitimate blackbelts is few, because many people take karate for 2 years only attaining a green belt ranking and tell people their karate blackbelts, misrepresenting the style. Bas is a legitimate Blackbelt as is Hug, TKD is watered down and soft now.
I never lied dude lol I was off the street no fighting exprience at all and punched out a 4th degree, although I've always had heavy hands. and it wasent hard folks just a punch to the chest cavity. after that most ppl quit the class cause this was on my 3rd day lol but just cause im telling u the truth and not what u want to hear you call me a lier, oh well what can ya do ???
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Talk to almost any MMA fighter and the guys they love to beat on are
1. Bodybuilders(muscle guys)
2. karate guys
in no particular order...
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Yeah, actually I do talk and train with mma guys dipshit. Most of them train weights too. And we don't go around beating on bodybuilders and karate guys. You go around with your buddies and beat up all the bodybuilders and karate guys in gis roaming the streets huh? Total bullshit post.
But like I said, you could always go to the kyokushin dojo with your video camera and beat up on the instructors since you're so very confident. Be sure to say "I'm Wombat from getbig." But you wouldn't dare do that.
Or you could ask Bas how tuff Kyokushin is, or GSP, or Andy Hug, or Lebanner, or Semmy, any other of the numerous fighters that use karate and beat up Kickboxers the same way Hug knocked Mirko Cro Cop silly with kicks he didn't even see coming.
Also, Fedor crosstrains in karate.
Why do you put muscle guys in parenthesis?
lol
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Talk to almost any MMA fighter and the guys they love to beat on are
1. Bodybuilders(muscle guys)
2. karate guys
in no particular order...
Wombat is right about the self righteous bodybuilders. People will get out of line and line up next to one of these guys when they come to BJJ class. Short game with explosive moves that gasses and taps furiously.
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I'll go to a dojo and fight ppl they wont fight me tho not the ones around here at least lol they say shit about liabillitys etc... But I've beat several karate ppl over the years the holes in the system are quite obvious. I don't even know why this is all up for debate, it a no brainer! And the punches in karate blow compared to boxing so do the blocks putting one hand dwn every time to boot lol all i can say is see ya! and just cause you can do demo's and punch carved out bricks in half and shin kick sawed bats dont make u a good fighter. Not to mention karate ppl join my gym all the time and they always get handled fast ushally by someone 1/2 thier size, then there like holy I need to learn how to fight again. Karate has a few good moves dont get me wrong but the style has lots of flaws, and shure you can fix those flaws then it's not karate any more it's mma ;)
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Yeah, actually I do talk and train with mma guys dipshit. Most of them train weights too. And we don't go around beating on bodybuilders and karate guys. You go around with your buddies and beat up all the bodybuilders and karate guys in gis roaming the streets huh? Total bullshit post.
But like I said, you could always go to the kyokushin dojo with your video camera and beat up on the instructors since you're so very confident. Be sure to say "I'm Wombat from getbig." But you wouldn't dare do that.
Or you could ask Bas how tuff Kyokushin is, or GSP, or Andy Hug, or Lebanner, or Semmy, any other of the numerous fighters that use karate and beat up Kickboxers the same way Hug knocked Mirko Cro Cop silly with kicks he didn't even see coming.
Also, Fedor crosstrains in karate.
Why do you put muscle guys in parenthesis?
lol
Im not an MMA guy their Realteabagrinser...I'm just regergatating what i've have heard many MMA fighters say in print and on TV...
Dude your so fuking insecure its a joke...The reason you started this post explains exactly to anyone with a three digit I.Q. just how insecure you are about Karate itself...
Get over yourself...Karate is a thing of the past and you know it...
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I'll go to a dojo and fight ppl they wont fight me tho not the ones around here at least lol they say shit about liabillitys etc... But I've beat several karate ppl over the years the holes in the system are quite obvious. I don't even know why this is all up for debate, it a no brainer! And the punches in karate blow compared to boxing so do the blocks putting one hand dwn every time to boot lol all i can say is see ya! and just cause you can do demo's and punch carved out bricks in half and shin kick sawed bats dont make u a good fighter. Not to mention karate ppl join my gym all the time and they always get handled fast ushally by someone 1/2 thier size, then there like holy I need to learn how to fight again. Karate has a few good moves dont get me wrong but the style has lots of flaws, and shure you can fix those flaws then it's not karate any more it's mma ;)
exactly...You can take a decent college wrestler and teach him some ground in pound for 1 fucking day and he will own just about any first degree blackbelt with no real fighting experience...All across the country, you are gonna see this Karate places fold left and right...And its all because of mma..And dipshits like realcockguzzer will turn into old bitter men trying to convience anyone who will listen to his B.S. just how much better Karate is...
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Yeah, actually I do talk and train with mma guys dipshit. Most of them train weights too. And we don't go around beating on bodybuilders and karate guys. You go around with your buddies and beat up all the bodybuilders and karate guys in gis roaming the streets huh? Total bullshit post.
But like I said, you could always go to the kyokushin dojo with your video camera and beat up on the instructors since you're so very confident. Be sure to say "I'm Wombat from getbig." But you wouldn't dare do that.
Or you could ask Bas how tuff Kyokushin is, or GSP, or Andy Hug, or Lebanner, or Semmy, any other of the numerous fighters that use karate and beat up Kickboxers the same way Hug knocked Mirko Cro Cop silly with kicks he didn't even see coming.
Also, Fedor crosstrains in karate.
Why do you put muscle guys in parenthesis?
lol
reread my post and tell me where i said anything about roaming the streets beating up on B.B or karate guys your insecure fck...Do society a favor and go make a noose out of that cable wire running from your computer and just end it..
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Proof you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. That's one type of punch out of many taught in karate. We jab too. I've used that type of punch from the hip in two fights with people on the street and knocked them out. Quicker than wild roundhouse swings and more powerful - straight and to the point like a front kick. Dropped someone like a sack of potatos.
You keep bringing up wrestling, and there is no denying it's good to be trained on the ground, but I've said many times I'm talking about the effectiveness as a standup style. I'll continue to watch as karate fighters dominate K-1 and real MMA stars continue to train in full-contact karate. hahaha.
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If u can take some one with a punch from the hip then they are not a smart fighter, since at that point both sides of ur head are wide open. after u swat that little linear punch down u just tee off on the head with left and right hooks, then elbows then clinch then knees, get the under hook pick em up then slam em on the concrete then GNP them till they don't move. If they open with a kick grab leg throw(idealy into a brick wall or tree) GNP
but in my experience, most don't last the first shots to the head (before the elbows)
As a stand up style??? Just use boxing thats all u need to beat karate!
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A full-contact karate guy will beat a boxer always because they never expect a kick to the gut.
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A full-contact karate guy will beat a boxer always because they never expect a kick to the gut.
Or a front snap to the knee to hyper extend that bitch or bust it..... And you cant box on the ground with a broken knee...
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karate sucks.
kids do it but as they grow older, they realize the truth.
i remember in high school the "black belt" always got his ass kiced during fights.
sure, would a karate 'master' kick someone's ass who doestn know how to fight - of course.
put that karate expert against even a decent mma fighter he'll loose extremely fast.
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A full contact karate fighter will beat any kickboxer or boxer in no-holds barred standup most of the time. I'm not talking about taekwondo, I'm talking about Shurin-Ryu and Kyokushin. Andy Hug knocked the shit out of Mirko Cro Cop.