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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: figgs on January 31, 2007, 05:16:02 PM
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I'm going through hell trying to regain my lost strength due to that fucking asshole Menzter's HIT program. I was benching today and I was embarassed to be seen with the weight I was using. And the gains aren't blowing back up. I have to work my ass off to get them back up. It's as if I'm starting all over again.
I'm discouraged, but I'm hungry for results! I'm starving for strength!!
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I'm going through hell trying to regain my lost strength due to that fucking asshole Menzter's HIT program. I was benching today and I was embarassed to be seen with the weight I was using. And the gains aren't blowing back up. I have to work my ass off to get them back up. It's as if I'm starting all over again.
I'm discouraged, but I'm hungry for results! I'm starving for strength!!
volume speaks volumes.. BTW, I thought you and Mike were cool?
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What you put into it you will get in return. Training less than one hour a day for bodybuilding is not adecate. All champions are built from hardwork!
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What you put into it you will get in return. Training less than one hour a day for bodybuilding is not adecate. All champions are built from hardwork!
hey champion.. hows things? hows the billy challenge? BTW, I am no longer posting on MD. :D
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hey champion.. hows things? hows the billy challenge? BTW, I am no longer posting on MD. :D
Hey bro, I was banned from MD so... that is behind me know.
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Hey bro, I was banned from MD so... that is behind me know.
Banned me too.. getbig is a lot better. :D
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Banned me too.. getbig is a lot better. :D
Damn right!
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Let me offer a guess to Figgs about his recent training: Might you be overworking your CNS and need more day's completely off from training? You hit The Wall, now take a nap under The Wall with a couple of days off. Than try the workout again with a lighter weight and higher reps so you can ramp up again. Good Luck.
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I'm going through hell trying to regain my lost strength due to that fucking asshole Menzter's HIT program. I was benching today and I was embarassed to be seen with the weight I was using. And the gains aren't blowing back up. I have to work my ass off to get them back up. It's as if I'm starting all over again.
I'm discouraged, but I'm hungry for results! I'm starving for strength!!
A mild shift in direction... :o ??? :-\
WTF happened to...
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=105394.0
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Progressove, periodic training is where it is at bro!! 8) I've been preachin that from day one. Mentzer was an old fvck who mixed philosohphical bullshit with training science, a mix known as psuedo-science.
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Let me also add that, with your work ethic and motivation, I don't think its gonna be hard or long task for you to regain your strength, given the correct training methods and proper diet.
Keep training hard!
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volume speaks volumes.. BTW, I thought you and Mike were cool?
Nah, Mike is an asshole.
What you put into it you will get in return. Training less than one hour a day for bodybuilding is not adecate. All champions are built from hardwork!
It took me this long to finally agree with you!
Let me offer a guess to Figgs about his recent training: Might you be overworking your CNS and need more day's completely off from training? You hit The Wall, now take a nap under The Wall with a couple of days off. Than try the workout again with a lighter weight and higher reps so you can ramp up again. Good Luck.
Thanks for the advice. But I took a whole week off after my last HIT workout. And I'm forced to use those lighter weights. :'(
A mild shift in direction... :o ??? :-\
WTF happened to...
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=105394.0
hahaha That's an embarassment. Where is Mentzer buried? I'd like to piss on his grave.
Progressove, periodic training is where it is at bro!! 8) I've been preachin that from day one. Mentzer was an old fvck who mixed philosohphical bullshit with training science, a mix known as psuedo-science.
Let me also add that, with your work ethic and motivation, I don't think its gonna be hard or long task for you to regain your strength, given the correct training methods and proper diet.
Keep training hard!
Thanks for the kind words, man! Very motivating! I'm back on what program both you and I would agree is what works! And it is goooood to be back!!
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It took me this long to finally agree with you!
Don't worry figgs now that you know what works best you will have more drive then ever to succeed.
Now that I look back I should have never stopped doing my routine from 4 years ago! Sure I gained a bit of mass from experimenting with different programs but if i had stayed with that program I would have much better right now.
That's life for you. You live and learn.
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I give Figgs credit for trying HIT to the max. the way it's supposed to be done. Not that common. It was worth it to find out. That intensity will easily translate to great workouts on a more conventional program.
I'd like to know what happened exactly to lead to such severe negative conclusions. Obviously it and other programs work for some.
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Hey bro, I was banned from MD so... that is behind me know.
Was just a phase you were going through was it? ;D
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Um dude... why do you care how strong you are? I don't care if I can't bench 215 as long as I look like I can lift 500 pounds.
Why the obsession with the "weight"... just inquiring.
If I could get big pressing 25s... I'd damn sure do that... itwould hurt a whole lot less.
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All his method does is pump lactid acid into the muscle. I felt alot in the gym, but nothing the days after. It was like i had not worked out. no soreness or anything.
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bro im sorry to hear u have such negative feelings now. I dont train the mentzer way as u know, but i still feel he was a visionery that opened the door to other training possibilities other than high volume.
I would like it in the future if u tried something like iv been doing. You know i use pretty much all compounds and dont use negative or static failure.
I think ud like it with ur training intensity!
davie
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Strength is abstract, muscles are real...your muscles cant see how much wieght you move, you dont even need weights to tire the muscles......think about it
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Strength is abstract, muscles are real...your muscles cant see how much wieght you move, you dont even need weights to tire the muscles......think about it
You look like a warmed over sack of shit. Please don't give training advice.
Hope this helps.
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I'm going through hell trying to regain my lost strength due to that fucking asshole Menzter's HIT program. I was benching today and I was embarassed to be seen with the weight I was using. And the gains aren't blowing back up. I have to work my ass off to get them back up. It's as if I'm starting all over again.
I'm discouraged, but I'm hungry for results! I'm starving for strength!!
you should have gotten the picture when i was making fun of you for pressing 40 pound db's for shoulders and leg pressing 3 plates per side, that's pathetic weight.
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It's not Mentzer's fault. (I read years ago, from the first time he started to lift seriously, he progressed on what ever program he was doing, along with Ray...the chosen few ) It may have been, for Figg's, a leap of blind faith. In a way that can be a good thing, seeing what works or does not, for them. At least Figg's had the courage to give it his all and try something very different. And man enough to admit the shortcomings of that style of training, for him,anyway. Good Luck.
JaeJonna: Strength is abstract, muscles are real? Should not that be the other way around?
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I liked how HIT made me feel afterwards but it doesn't help you to move any amount of weight for a set rep range. You're usually only moving that first weight x amount of times and then just a couple reps each drop after that. I say fuck it and just go with what feels good.
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Strength is abstract, muscles are real...your muscles cant see how much wieght you move, you dont even need weights to tire the muscles......think about it
There's some truth there. Adding resistance is one but not the only way to improve.
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No offense bro.......but the routine you did was so far from Mentzer;;s HIIT protocol that it was sickening.......I would duggest buying his books, read and research here's a few examples of his routine that should have been put into place......
Workout 2 (sequal to chest/shoulder/tri routine).
BACK:
DeadLifts: First warm-up with a weight light enough to do 20reps but also enough to apply some pressure to the muscle you're about to stress.
1 Work set with your maximum weight for 6-10 reps from the floor.
FORM IS EVERYTHING.
Ex: I warmup with 225 x 10reps
Workset was with 405 x 10reps
Straight arm cable pulldowns -
Preexhaust with 1 set 6-10reps to failure.
No rest and straight to Widegrip Pulldowns -
Postive/negative/static
1st set - positive failure 6-10reps, use a spot with forced reps
1min rest
2nd set -increase weight - negative failure for 6-10 reps until you can no longer do another rep!
1min rest
Static hold - increase weight - 1rep and hold at contraction (spot should help you get weight in position) hold for up to 12 seconds if you can hold for more then up the weight.
Over to Seated Rows:
2 work sets to failure with strict form and a 3second negative.
TRAPS:
DB Shrugs -
Warmup
2sets to failure 6-10reps HEAVY with proper form and a 2second contraction at the top.
Behind the back Shrugs - 2sets 6-10reps.
BICEPS:
BB curls: 2sets to failure Heavy weight proper form no arching or bouncing.
Spider curls - Positive/Neg/Static
Post - 6-10reps one arm at a time, make it hurt.
Negative - 6-10 keep your spotter close and go until utter failure, arm should feel like it's going to explode
Static - hold until your face turns blue and a slow negative.
Done, now go eat and rest.
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Don't worry figgs now that you know what works best you will have more drive then ever to succeed.
Now that I look back I should have never stopped doing my routine from 4 years ago! Sure I gained a bit of mass from experimenting with different programs but if i had stayed with that program I would have much better right now.
That's life for you. You live and learn.
Thanks bro. My motivation is on fire!!
I give Figgs credit for trying HIT to the max. the way it's supposed to be done. Not that common. It was worth it to find out. That intensity will easily translate to great workouts on a more conventional program.
I'd like to know what happened exactly to lead to such severe negative conclusions. Obviously it and other programs work for some.
I have no idea how exactly it may have happened. :-\
Um dude... why do you care how strong you are? I don't care if I can't bench 215 as long as I look like I can lift 500 pounds.
Why the obsession with the "weight"... just inquiring.
If I could get big pressing 25s... I'd damn sure do that... itwould hurt a whole lot less.
It's all about the lifting experience. Pushing around big weights is only half the fun of being a bodybuilder.
bro im sorry to hear u have such negative feelings now. I dont train the mentzer way as u know, but i still feel he was a visionery that opened the door to other training possibilities other than high volume.
I would like it in the future if u tried something like iv been doing. You know i use pretty much all compounds and dont use negative or static failure.
I think ud like it with ur training intensity!
davie
Yeah, I'll agree. I don't think Mentzer entirely wasted his time on constructing his routine. He did open people's minds. But he's still an asshole.
I'm glad your routine worked so well! I have to wonder if I'd experience the same results!
you should have gotten the picture when i was making fun of you for pressing 40 pound db's for shoulders and leg pressing 3 plates per side, that's pathetic weight.
You're right. That was pathetic. But I learned.
It's not Mentzer's fault. (I read years ago, from the first time he started to lift seriously, he progressed on what ever program he was doing, along with Ray...the chosen few ) It may have been, for Figg's, a leap of blind faith. In a way that can be a good thing, seeing what works or does not, for them. At least Figg's had the courage to give it his all and try something very different. And man enough to admit the shortcomings of that style of training, for him,anyway. Good Luck.
JaeJonna: Strength is abstract, muscles are real? Should not that be the other way around?
Thanks for the post. I actually didn't know that about Mentzer. He talked about his training like high volume was grossly counterproductive.
I liked how HIT made me feel afterwards but it doesn't help you to move any amount of weight for a set rep range. You're usually only moving that first weight x amount of times and then just a couple reps each drop after that. I say f**k it and just go with what feels good.
Yeah, when you complete an HIT workout you can't believe you exposed yourself to that kind of training intensity. And it's a great feeling. Always such a feeling of pride. But also, there's very little muscle soreness.
My chest is sore as a bitch today. I missed that.
No offense bro.......but the routine you did was so far from Mentzer;;s HIIT protocol that it was sickening.......I would duggest buying his books, read and research here's a few examples of his routine that should have been put into place......
Workout 2 (sequal to chest/shoulder/tri routine).
BACK:
DeadLifts: First warm-up with a weight light enough to do 20reps but also enough to apply some pressure to the muscle you're about to stress.
1 Work set with your maximum weight for 6-10 reps from the floor.
FORM IS EVERYTHING.
Ex: I warmup with 225 x 10reps
Workset was with 405 x 10reps
Straight arm cable pulldowns -
Preexhaust with 1 set 6-10reps to failure.
No rest and straight to Widegrip Pulldowns -
Postive/negative/static
1st set - positive failure 6-10reps, use a spot with forced reps
1min rest
2nd set -increase weight - negative failure for 6-10 reps until you can no longer do another rep!
1min rest
Static hold - increase weight - 1rep and hold at contraction (spot should help you get weight in position) hold for up to 12 seconds if you can hold for more then up the weight.
Over to Seated Rows:
2 work sets to failure with strict form and a 3second negative.
TRAPS:
DB Shrugs -
Warmup
2sets to failure 6-10reps HEAVY with proper form and a 2second contraction at the top.
Behind the back Shrugs - 2sets 6-10reps.
BICEPS:
BB curls: 2sets to failure Heavy weight proper form no arching or bouncing.
Spider curls - Positive/Neg/Static
Post - 6-10reps one arm at a time, make it hurt.
Negative - 6-10 keep your spotter close and go until utter failure, arm should feel like it's going to explode
Static - hold until your face turns blue and a slow negative.
Done, now go eat and rest.
lol I followed his routine exactly as it was laid out. I downloaded Mentzer's HIT video and followed that exact routine as well.
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hahahahah Figgs. But I bet you have more intensity than anyone else on this site!!!!!!!!! What's it like struggling to bench 185? hahahahahaha!
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Figgs no offense but to be that much of an HIT zealot with detailed training posts, followed almost immediately by hate for it and an attack on Mentzer without an equally detailed explanation of how you got from one extreme to another makes you look very, very unstable. :'(
Go ahead, enlighten us..your experience only helps providing some insights.
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Figgs no offense but to be that much of an HIT zealot with detailed training posts, followed almost immediately by hate for it and an attack on Mentzer without an equally detailed explanation of how you got from one extreme to another makes you look very, very unstable. :'(
Go ahead, enlighten us..your experience only helps providing some insights.
It DID make me bigger!! But at the cost of strength! Sure, some people like tu_holmes wouldn't mind that, but I train for strength as well as size.
While on HIT, my training partner and I couldn't wait to return to our old routines to check out our new strength levels. But we were shocked when we found our lifts had gone down!
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It DID make me bigger!! But at the cost of strength! Sure, some people like tu_holmes wouldn't mind that, but I train for strength as well as size.
While on HIT, my training partner and I couldn't wait to return to our old routines to check out our new strength levels. But we were shocked when we found our lifts had gone down!
I don't know how you can be that critical if it made you bigger! And why didn't you mention the benefit earlier? Strength is fine but this site's called getbig. ;) BTW as far as having "lost" strength i highly doubt it, at most you probably only need a few workouts to aclimate your system back to the type of lifting done before.
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I don't know how you can be that critical if it made you bigger! And why didn't you mention the benefit earlier? Strength is fine but this site's called getbig. ;) BTW as far as having "lost" strength i highly doubt it, at most you probably only need a few workouts to aclimate your system back to the type of lifting done before.
I sure hope you're right cuz my bench is down more than 20 pounds.
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i told you figgs..hit is shit. it takes hard work with frequent training to get volume...volume4volume
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i told you figgs..hit is shit. it takes hard work with frequent training to get volume...volume4volume
These "i told you so" types are sooo predictable & boring. Basically they post only to say that there's one way-there's, when it's untrue. There are various ways to gain muscle, including HIT as Figgs just verified.
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im just confused about all of this, because i think if figgs got BIGGER then the hit program WORKED!!!! if his goals was to get big WHILE getting stronger, then probably hit was not the option, but i think you should get happy after getting bigger on this trainning.... ???
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These "i told you so" types are sooo predictable & boring. Basically they post only to say that there's one way-there's, when it's untrue. There are various ways to gain muscle, including HIT as Figgs just verified.
im aware that it was a "I told you so post" but HIT is bullshit so it wasnt a surprise that it didnt work for figgs.
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im aware that it was a "I told you so post" but HIT is bullshit so it wasnt a surprise that it didnt work for figgs.
It can't be BS if he says he grew from it.
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It can't be BS if he says he grew from it.
Exactly
davie
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I sure hope you're right cuz my bench is down more than 20 pounds.
Figgs? You're apparently a young guy. If I read correctly, you trained "HIT" style for only a couple of months. If it only cost you a setback of 8 weeks and 20lbs on your bench, to discover you weren't gonna accomplish your goals, then count it a valuable lesson for a very small price...in the long run.
To his credit, Mentzer's style did it's job...FOR MENTZER! He obviously benefitted physically from his training, and then he did what I think most of us envy...he made a good living from selling/ teaching such concepts, virtually unopposed!
Part of discovering what works, FOR YOU, is finding out what doesn't work, FOR YOU, and it sounds like you're a step closer to understanding yourself. That's progress, that IMO, you owe, in part, to Mentzer.
Intensity and Volume are as similar and yet as opposite as the Right hand is from the Left. It is, again, IMO, that when the two meet in the proper ratio for the INDIVIDUAL'S goals, that success will be found.
You seem to have a dramatic form of writing, and a charasmatic personality. Don't pollute yourself, as some, by hating on a true pioneer of bodybuilding, just because his way turned out to not be your way.
Best of luck!
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Figgs? You're apparently a young guy. If I read correctly, you trained "HIT" style for only a couple of months. If it only cost you a setback of 8 weeks and 20lbs on your bench, to discover you weren't gonna accomplish your goals, then count it a valuable lesson for a very small price...in the long run.
To his credit, Mentzer's style did it's job...FOR MENTZER! He obviously benefitted physically from his training, and then he did what I think most of us envy...he made a good living from selling/ teaching such concepts, virtually unopposed!
Part of discovering what works, FOR YOU, is finding out what doesn't work, FOR YOU, and it sounds like you're a step closer to understanding yourself. That's progress, that IMO, you owe, in part, to Mentzer.
Intensity and Volume are as similar and yet as opposite as the Right hand is from the Left. It is, again, IMO, that when the two meet in the proper ratio for the INDIVIDUAL'S goals, that success will be found.
You seem to have a dramatic form of writing, and a charasmatic personality. Don't pollute yourself, as some, by hating on a true pioneer of bodybuilding, just because his way turned out to not be your way.
Best of luck!
Damn fine post right there!
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Damn fine post right there!
Thanks, bro! I'm just a guy who's been around this "iron addiction" long enough to see it from many perspectives.
I've put my time in the gym. I've sweat, puked, and bled enough to qualify myself as having an opinion and being able to substantiate my position.
I've kicked sand and have eaten crow. I've learned, (often the hard way) that how you treat others is, indeed most often how you'll be treated....eventually!
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Figgs? You're apparently a young guy. If I read correctly, you trained "HIT" style for only a couple of months. If it only cost you a setback of 8 weeks and 20lbs on your bench, to discover you weren't gonna accomplish your goals, then count it a valuable lesson for a very small price...in the long run.
To his credit, Mentzer's style did it's job...FOR MENTZER! He obviously benefitted physically from his training, and then he did what I think most of us envy...he made a good living from selling/ teaching such concepts, virtually unopposed!
Part of discovering what works, FOR YOU, is finding out what doesn't work, FOR YOU, and it sounds like you're a step closer to understanding yourself. That's progress, that IMO, you owe, in part, to Mentzer.
Intensity and Volume are as similar and yet as opposite as the Right hand is from the Left. It is, again, IMO, that when the two meet in the proper ratio for the INDIVIDUAL'S goals, that success will be found.
You seem to have a dramatic form of writing, and a charasmatic personality. Don't pollute yourself, as some, by hating on a true pioneer of bodybuilding, just because his way turned out to not be your way.
Best of luck!
Your post has really had an effect on me. You're absolutely right. I went too far and let my initial reaction take control. There's no reason to go and piss on Mentzer's grave. lol that's fucked up!
Mentzer was an inspiration on me in other ways as well, and I can't forget that any longer than I temporarily have. I loved his writing and admired his intelligence and charisma. I can't forget that.
I did develop a greater knowledge on my own body because of this. Sure, high-intensity does work for me, but not Mentzer's exact routine. It's how I include high-intensity techniques into my traditional volume training which is what seems to work. And now I'm experimenting with gymnastics and how it effects my upper body strength. Again, I'm taking a risk since it may not work but as far as I can tell thus far, it works!
As you can tell, strength is a definite priority of mine. And the mistake I made was assuming that's the same for others. I did get bigger, and when I look in the mirror I thank Mentzer for that, but now it's a struggle to get my strength back. And that strength, I crave!!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! :)
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Figgs? You're apparently a young guy. If I read correctly, you trained "HIT" style for only a couple of months. If it only cost you a setback of 8 weeks and 20lbs on your bench, to discover you weren't gonna accomplish your goals, then count it a valuable lesson for a very small price...in the long run.
To his credit, Mentzer's style did it's job...FOR MENTZER! He obviously benefitted physically from his training, and then he did what I think most of us envy...he made a good living from selling/ teaching such concepts, virtually unopposed!
Part of discovering what works, FOR YOU, is finding out what doesn't work, FOR YOU, and it sounds like you're a step closer to understanding yourself. That's progress, that IMO, you owe, in part, to Mentzer.
Intensity and Volume are as similar and yet as opposite as the Right hand is from the Left. It is, again, IMO, that when the two meet in the proper ratio for the INDIVIDUAL'S goals, that success will be found.
You seem to have a dramatic form of writing, and a charasmatic personality. Don't pollute yourself, as some, by hating on a true pioneer of bodybuilding, just because his way turned out to not be your way.
Best of luck!
Awesome post mate!!
Curious, as i guess uv been through many programs etc, what have u concluded works FOR YOU??
Im glad ur time in this sport has made u a better person, well done bro!!
davie
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Figgs? You're apparently a young guy. If I read correctly, you trained "HIT" style for only a couple of months. If it only cost you a setback of 8 weeks and 20lbs on your bench, to discover you weren't gonna accomplish your goals, then count it a valuable lesson for a very small price...in the long run.
To his credit, Mentzer's style did it's job...FOR MENTZER! He obviously benefitted physically from his training, and then he did what I think most of us envy...he made a good living from selling/ teaching such concepts, virtually unopposed!
Part of discovering what works, FOR YOU, is finding out what doesn't work, FOR YOU, and it sounds like you're a step closer to understanding yourself. That's progress, that IMO, you owe, in part, to Mentzer.
Intensity and Volume are as similar and yet as opposite as the Right hand is from the Left. It is, again, IMO, that when the two meet in the proper ratio for the INDIVIDUAL'S goals, that success will be found.
You seem to have a dramatic form of writing, and a charasmatic personality. Don't pollute yourself, as some, by hating on a true pioneer of bodybuilding, just because his way turned out to not be your way.
Best of luck!
Much as i said in earlier posts, and PM'd Figgs asking for and still waiting for an answer. Anyone who was so good in detailing his HIT training just recently should also let us know why there's been such an inexplicable shift, which is what i said to him.
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Much as i said in earlier posts, and PM'd Figgs asking for and still waiting for an answer. Anyone who was so good in detailing his HIT training just recently should also let us know why there's been such an inexplicable shift, which is what i said to him.
The shift occured when I returned to my old routine and finally discovered my decreases in strength.
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Did Mentzer even use HIT during his BBing career?
I was on Robby Robinson's website, and someone asked a question on the message board about HIT, and Robby said that as far as he observed, Mentzer trained using volume, the same way that everyone else did back in the day.
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Well if you didnt bench during your hit period its only logical that your bench has gone down, that's called 'cns efficiency' or better 'defficiency' in this case, your cns has to relearn the movement so to speak
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Well if you didnt bench during your hit period its only logical that your bench has gone down, that's called 'cns efficiency' or better 'defficiency' in this case, your cns has to relearn the movement so to speak
Exactly; translated it means Figgs freaked over 20 friggin lb., which makes no sense. Listen to the Charles Glass interview and you'll hear him say that too many are obsessed with numbers.
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Exactly; translated it means Figgs freaked over 20 friggin lb., which makes no sense. Listen to the Charles Glass interview and you'll hear him say that too many are obsessed with numbers.
It doesn't take much weight to make a muscle grow but Mentzer's system is flawed for a champion bodybuilder. For normal people it is ok because they are lazy and don't expect much.
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The shift occured when I returned to my old routine and finally discovered my decreases in strength.
it's why I went back. I did HIT for 6 weeks as suggested and went back to see the "renewed increases" and discovered the only thing that increased was the amount of effort it took to get back to where I was. It is a badass style, don't get my wrong. I've never been in so much pain in my life when I was training as I was when I was on HIT. I learned from it and don't plan on using it again unless I'm just in teh mood for a little bit of pace change.
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Exactly; translated it means Figgs freaked over 20 friggin lb., which makes no sense. Listen to the Charles Glass interview and you'll hear him say that too many are obsessed with numbers.
It's not just bench press that went down. Everything except calves went down. Calves actually went up!! THAT'S an accomplishment because my calves are my greatest genetic struggle.
I just finished my shoulder/bi workout. My military press is down 4 reps and my BB curl is down 20 pounds. You think I'm just freaking out? My biceps strength hasn't budged! I'm weaker than I was a year ago and my muscle memory isn't doing shit for me. Freaking out? haha this is fucking bullshit.
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It's not just bench press that went down. Everything except calves went down. Calves actually went up!! THAT'S an accomplishment because my calves are my greatest genetic struggle.
I just finished my shoulder/bi workout. My military press is down 4 reps and my BB curl is down 20 pounds. You think I'm just freaking out? My biceps strength hasn't budged! I'm weaker than I was a year ago and my muscle memory isn't doing shit for me. Freaking out? haha this is fucking bullshit.
Your whole approach is bizarre. You don't go from being that much of a HIT zealot to a hater that quickly without wack perspectives. It's not just the amount of weight lifted that matters in the context of a different protocol.
Disappointing that you of all people would be open to something new then over-react just because of one aspect, this obsession with weight. There are all sorts of effective programs that don't focus just on the amount lifted yet you've freaked over it.
Then you don't even bother to throw in much elaboration keeping everything in until prodded further. This after mounds of data generated during the short-lived HIT zealotry. Strange.
If on one hand you say you made gains but lost only 20 lb. on a lift, who the f*** cares?
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Progressove, periodic training is where it is at bro!! 8) I've been preachin that from day one. Mentzer was an old fvck who mixed philosohphical bullshit with training science, a mix known as psuedo-science.
Preach on brother Love!!!
Amen to that!!
The current words of wisdom I keep in the back of my head are: "Sometimes you got to go light to be able to go heavy".
-Hedge
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I don't understand how you think a dramatic decrease in almost every single lift isn't a big deal. I'm bigger, yes, but I don't want my muscles to be an illusion. I want to be strong! Why wouldn't I want to be? I go to the gym everyday with the hope of seeing each lift I do increase. And now workout after workout I learn of new DECREASES. AND then I learn that I have to struggle to regain my strength as if I'm starting all over again!
I understand some some training protocols don't put much emphasis on strength. Most of which don't produce an actual decrease in strength. HIT is probably the only bullshit routine to do that.
I made this thread to let out some steam. So what? My reaction is so sudden because I couldn't have learned about my strength decreases until after I finished HIT. And when I learned about that my new opinion was created. How sudden that opinion was created is irrelevant. What is relevant is that I have to start all over again with my training. Back to where I was months ago.
And I don't think I deserve having my mental health questioned over this. That's not fair. All I did was create this thread to let out some steam. This wasn't an extension of my HIT log. It was already explained in one of the concluding posts of my log that the routine made both my training partner and I bigger and weaker. That's all there is to know. Now it's time to hit the gym harder than ever to get back to where I was before because all I want to do now is exceed myself.
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I don't understand how you think a dramatic decrease in almost every single lift isn't a big deal. I'm bigger, yes, but I don't want my muscles to be an illusion. I want to be strong! Why wouldn't I want to be? I go to the gym everyday with the hope of seeing each lift I do increase. And now workout after workout I learn of new DECREASES. AND then I learn that I have to struggle to regain my strength as if I'm starting all over again!
I understand some some training protocols don't put much emphasis on strength. Most of which don't produce an actual decrease in strength. HIT is probably the only bullshit routine to do that.
I made this thread to let out some steam. So what? My reaction is so sudden because I couldn't have learned about my strength decreases until after I finished HIT. And when I learned about that my new opinion was created. How sudden that opinion was created is irrelevant. What is relevant is that I have to start all over again with my training. Back to where I was months ago.
And I don't think I deserve having my mental health questioned over this. That's not fair. All I did was create this thread to let out some steam. This wasn't an extension of my HIT log. It was already explained in one of the concluding posts of my log that the routine made both my training partner and I bigger and weaker. That's all there is to know. Now it's time to hit the gym harder than ever to get back to where I was before because all I want to do now is exceed myself.
Figgs you gotta clarify your objectives when starting any program.. Mentzer style training is never a solution for strength gains.. period.
If you're a bodybuilder, strength is a byproduct not THE goal when training.
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I consider myself a bodybuilder but like I said, when I go to the gym I'm looking for increases in strength. That's a huge priority. Isn't it the same for most others who lift weights?
Mentzer wrote in his book that strength should be expected to make major increases. I figured he meant that those 15 lb. side laterals and 60 pound BB curls were to increase at a rapid rate. :-\
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I consider myself a bodybuilder but like I said, when I go to the gym I'm looking for increases in strength. That's a huge priority. Isn't it the same for most others who lift weights?
Mentzer wrote in his book that strength should be expected to make major increases. I figured he meant that those 15 lb. side laterals and 60 pound BB curls were to increase at a rapid rate. :-\
Not really.
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I don't understand how you think a dramatic decrease in almost every single lift isn't a big deal. I'm bigger, yes, but I don't want my muscles to be an illusion. I want to be strong! Why wouldn't I want to be? I go to the gym everyday with the hope of seeing each lift I do increase. And now workout after workout I learn of new DECREASES. AND then I learn that I have to struggle to regain my strength as if I'm starting all over again!
I understand some some training protocols don't put much emphasis on strength. Most of which don't produce an actual decrease in strength. HIT is probably the only bullshit routine to do that.
I made this thread to let out some steam. So what? My reaction is so sudden because I couldn't have learned about my strength decreases until after I finished HIT. And when I learned about that my new opinion was created. How sudden that opinion was created is irrelevant. What is relevant is that I have to start all over again with my training. Back to where I was months ago.
And I don't think I deserve having my mental health questioned over this. That's not fair. All I did was create this thread to let out some steam. This wasn't an extension of my HIT log. It was already explained in one of the concluding posts of my log that the routine made both my training partner and I bigger and weaker. That's all there is to know. Now it's time to hit the gym harder than ever to get back to where I was before because all I want to do now is exceed myself.
Hey man... no need to get uncalm... If you wanna be strong, you wanna be strong... I personally would rather "LOOK" strong... I don't really have to be strong... it just isn't a priority... I wanna look good... that's about it.
Good luck with whatever you're going for.
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Hey, this is news to me guys! I don't quite understand it, however. LOL but thanks for educating me and good luck.
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I don't understand how you think a dramatic decrease in almost every single lift isn't a big deal. I'm bigger, yes, but I don't want my muscles to be an illusion. I want to be strong! Why wouldn't I want to be? I go to the gym everyday with the hope of seeing each lift I do increase. And now workout after workout I learn of new DECREASES. AND then I learn that I have to struggle to regain my strength as if I'm starting all over again!
I understand some some training protocols don't put much emphasis on strength. Most of which don't produce an actual decrease in strength. HIT is probably the only bullshit routine to do that.
I made this thread to let out some steam. So what? My reaction is so sudden because I couldn't have learned about my strength decreases until after I finished HIT. And when I learned about that my new opinion was created. How sudden that opinion was created is irrelevant. What is relevant is that I have to start all over again with my training. Back to where I was months ago.
And I don't think I deserve having my mental health questioned over this. That's not fair. All I did was create this thread to let out some steam. This wasn't an extension of my HIT log. It was already explained in one of the concluding posts of my log that the routine made both my training partner and I bigger and weaker. That's all there is to know. Now it's time to hit the gym harder than ever to get back to where I was before because all I want to do now is exceed myself.
What's the number one priority of your training, strength or mass?
Let me also add that even for those who train for strength, a couple of years targeted at gaining mass is beneficial, but obviously not with the high rep training and no rest between sets of Mentzer.
-Hedge
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What's the number one priority of your training, strength or mass?
Let me also add that even for those who train for strength, a couple of years targeted at gaining mass is beneficial, but obviously not with the high rep training and no rest between sets of Mentzer.
-Hedge
I'd say both are equal priorities. I go to the gym to get stronger and I wait for the results.
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strength is antiquated.
you're probably using less weight because you're using stricter form or feeling the weight more instead of merely getting it from point a to point b.
with super slow training you were probably on the path to using your mind muscle connection and getting superior results with greater intensity.
just start jerking the weights with more speed and your 'strength' will go back up in no time. ::)
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The other thing that bothered me and I believe figgs was that even when you did this workout and as intense as it was..i was left with the feeling I didnt work hard enough or LONG enough for it to be effective but trusted that it would be. :-\
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Following the loss at the 1980 Mr. Olympia, Mentzer reportedly ran into numerous problems. In the late 1970's Mike is was reported to have begun using amphetamines, claiming he only took them as an ergogenic aid to help facilitate a hectic lifestyle. Mentzer left his position at Weider Publications shortly after his loss at the Mr. Olympia contest, and suffered financially as a result. He did land a job in 1985 as editor of the newly launched Workout Magazine, however when that failed and that same year his father died, Mentzer reportedly suffered a mental breakdown. According to Peter McGough, editor-in-chief of FLEX Magazine, stories began to surface of Menzter exhibiting some very erratic behaviour. Stories of him running naked through the streets, directing traffic, telling prophecies about the end of the world, being arrested by the police numerous times and even waiting for aliens to land were all published in magazines at one point or another. Popular bodybuilding writer Dan Duchaine even suggested that Menzter was drinking his own urine at the time. Mike denied this in a 2001 interview with Iron Man magazine. Nonetheless, according to McGough some of these stories are true.[1] Menzter was also regularly institutionalized between 1985 up until 1990, when he finally kicked his amphetamine habit. Drug free, Mike returned to training bodybuilders and writing for Ironman Magazine, and spent much of the 1990s regaining his stature in the bodybuilding industry.
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strength is antiquated.
you're probably using less weight because you're using stricter form or feeling the weight more instead of merely getting it from point a to point b.
with super slow training you were probably on the path to using your mind muscle connection and getting superior results with greater intensity.
just start jerking the weights with more speed and your 'strength' will go back up in no time. ::)
Yup; form misleads on gauging strength.
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there are tons of different methods of training and there is usually some good results to back it them up...on that note, out of all the different training methods to I think HIT is the one that has the most science backing it up, if you know anything about the science of how a muscle is built and the things that it requires to hypertrophy then you will believe HIT is a great way to train, like i said this does not mean that its for everyone and yes people can get huge doing many other things but you should look more into the basic HIT not Mentzers programs...