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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Purge_WTF on March 23, 2007, 04:08:00 PM
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Are our lives or liberty or rights or freedoms or property or even our beliefs guaranteed the right to exist by a piece of paper or words?
- No.
Let me discuss a fundamental fact that too many of us are consciously unaware of -->
The ONLY thing that guarantees anything you THINK you have rights to in this world is:
Force or the threat of force by someone or some group,
- in defense against anyone/group that would try to take it away from you.
The force can violent or nonviolent, but must be a force capable of inflicting significant enough harm or threat of harm to succeed over the adversary.
This is a fact that has always been, and always will be, a fact as long as humans exist on this planet.
Does the Constitution in and of itself guarantee your rights and freedoms?
Does God guarantee your rights and freedoms?
Is the property you own guaranteed by your deed alone?
Is the vehicle you own guaranteed by the title you hold in your hand?
Does anyone's words or writing guarantee anything you hold dear- your life, your property, your right to your children, your liberty, anything?
- No.
There is only one fact of life that guarantees ANYTHING that you think you have 'right' to.
The ONLY thing that guarantees anything you THINK you have rights to in this world is force or the threat of force by someone or some group in protection of that...
... from those that would try to take it away from you.
Force/violence or threat of force/violence can be by individuals, or by groups. Military, police, militias, gangs, individuals. The only requirement is the ability to use force or the threat of its use against uncooperative adversaries.
For example, the 'rights and freedoms' of our Constitution are ONLY guaranteed by those that would fight for it with violence/force or threat of violence/force- the military and police primarily at this point, but other groups and individuals as well. The Constitution is only as good as those who have agreed upon it and are willing to fight, with violence or threat of violence, or force or threat of force, for it. But if our government "went bad" and the Constitution was declared no longer in effect, it could simply happen at that point. If some group with enough power to reenforce it with force/violence or threat of force/violence acted in order to protect it and was successful, our Constitution would survive. Would the military and law enforcement do that, or would they support the new government and its decisions? Would the people have to act deliberately and coordinated in some manner, violent or nonviolent? Only God knows. That is just one example out of a million.
The examples include everything that you THINK you have rights to, including your life, your liberty, your property, your children, etc.
Your property is only as much yours as that which is backed by your willingness to fight for it, or by those willing to fight for it on your behalf, with force/violence or threat of force/violence, from those that would try to take it away.
Your life is only as much yours as that which is backed by your willingness to fight for it, or by those willing to fight for it on your behalf, with force/violence or threat of force/violence, from those that would try to take it away.
Your liberty is only as much yours as that which is backed by your willingness to fight for it, or by those willing to fight for it on your behalf, with force/violence or threat of force/violence, from those that would try to take it away.
Even your own conscious mind and freedom to think freely is only as much yours as that which is backed by your willingness to fight for it, or by those willing to fight for it on your behalf, with force/violence or threat of force/violence, from those that would try to take it away.
EVERYTHING you believe you possess is only guaranteed by violence/force or threat of violence/force against those who would take it away, by yourself, or by others acting on your behalf.
This is a fundamental fact that you must understand. This is a fundamental fact that very few understand.
Nothing about 'the world as you know it' can be taken for granted. DO NOT take the rights/freedoms/things/possessions you have and believe in for granted, or as an absolute truth that cannot be taken away, or as any inalienable things. Way too many Americans are doing this at this time.
NOTHING is ours unless we or someone else is willing and able to fight for it with violent and/or forceful action.
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Two years ago, 2 armed guys entered my brother's pharmacy with the intent to kill him and the other pharmacist and take a pallet of oxycodon out the back door.
He saw the masks and guns, and he drew his own weapon and fired first. The first guy was hit in the gut and spun around, and his partner decided not to enter the fray and ran at the door so hard he fractured his wrist and cracked the window as he hit it on the way out. My brother didn't fire at their backs.
It was an "inside job" - the scumbag girl who worked there set it up then called in sick that night. She confessed the plan and later testified against her man for a plea.
My brother would be dead today if they had banned guns. The two robbers wouldn't have turned their weapons in. No way. But my law-abiding brother would have been required to. Private ownership of guns saved his life that day.
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I'm totally in favor of owning and bearing firearms. (although, i don't own any firearms) Yes, guns kill. But it's just like pot and hookers, whether you outlaw them or not they will still be there at least if they are legal you can regulate them to a certain extent by registration and taxation.
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I'm not sure who here you're talking to? Is there anyone on this board who is anti-gun? Even Jag isn't. In the entire time I've been posting here, I don't remember reading an anti-gun post? Anyone?
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I'm totally in favor of owning and bearing firearms. (although, i don't own any firearms) Yes, guns kill. But it's just like pot and hookers, whether you outlaw them or not they will still be there at least if they are legal you can regulate them to a certain extent by registration and taxation.
Here's the catch.
Ideally, a nation without guns would be safer. however, with ANY nation who attempts to go from 200+ milllion to zero guns is going to go thru a very tough transitional period.
Think about it. most people will begrudgingly turn them in. But criminals? No way. They already break bigger laws. Why would they follow the small law which will make them lose their income?
There will be a 100+ year period where only the bad guys have guns. And it'll SUCK to live thru that. After that time, most of the guns will be worn out, found, buried or forgotten. But if you live in that time, you will suffer and live a less safe life.
I've carried mine every day for 9 years and will carry til the day i die. It's a tool like anything else, one that reduces the probability me or my loved ones will suffer from violent crime. I've been in fistfights and struggles and other tense situations, but since the situation never warranted it, i have never used my weapon. And just so ya know, I have a concealed permit. If my weapon ever shows, I go to jail for a year. pretty good motivation to keep is quiet. And only my close family even knows I choose to carry.
An armed society is a polite society.
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I'm not sure who here you're talking to? Is there anyone on this board who is anti-gun? Even Jag isn't.
we're trying to sniff out the punks :)
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we're trying to sniff out the punks :)
If we try real hard, I bet we can dig up one anti-gun person here, maybe Ribo? I don't know where he stands?
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An armed society is a polite society.
your getting back on the right track ;)
don't f' it up :-X
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240 beat me to the Heinlein quote, I see belatedly. So let me quote Eric S. Raymond instead...
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The Founding Fathers of the United States believed, and wrote, that the bearing of arms was essential to the character and dignity of a free people.... The Founders had been successful armed revolutionaries. Every one of them had had repeated confrontation with life-or-death choices, in grave knowledge of the consequences of failure. They desired that the people of their infant nation should always cultivate that kind of ethical maturity, the keen sense of individual moral responsibility that they had personally learned from using lethal force in defense of their liberty.
Accordingly, firearms were prohibited only to those intended to be kept powerless and infantilized. American gun prohibitions have their origins in racist legislation designed to disarm slaves and black freedmen. The wording of that legislation repays study; it was designed not merely to deny blacks the political power of arms but to prevent them from aspiring to the dignity of free men.
http://www.catb.org/~esr/guns/gun-ethics.html
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Holy shit! :o I can't believe that all of the pinko commies on here have the same viewpoint on this subject that I do! I feel like I just entered the twilight zone.
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Two years ago, 2 armed guys entered my brother's pharmacy with the intent to kill him and the other pharmacist and take a pallet of oxycodon out the back door.
He saw the masks and guns, and he drew his own weapon and fired first. The first guy was hit in the gut and spun around, and his partner decided not to enter the fray and ran at the door so hard he fractured his wrist and cracked the window as he hit it on the way out. My brother didn't fire at their backs.
It was an "inside job" - the scumbag girl who worked there set it up then called in sick that night. She confessed the plan and later testified against her man for a plea.
My brother would be dead today if they had banned guns. The two robbers wouldn't have turned their weapons in. No way. But my law-abiding brother would have been required to. Private ownership of guns saved his life that day.
Countries with restrictive gun policies have lower crime rates.
-Hedge
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Holy shit! :o I can't believe that all of the pinko commies on here have the same viewpoint on this subject that I do! I feel like I just entered the twilight zone.
I've never wasted time on getbig with any second ammendment issues simply because I don't ever remember seeing one person to take up the issue with. There are no anti gun members that I know of ;) I've never seen a rant on guns here or in general.
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I have lots of firearms., handguns, shotguns, rifles. Fucking enforce the laws on the books. Throw criminals who commit violent crimes in jail forever. Don't try and ban firearms. Thats just plain stupid.
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I have lots of firearms., handguns, shotguns, rifles. Fucking enforce the laws on the books. Throw criminals who commit violent crimes in jail forever. Don't try and ban firearms. Thats just plain stupid.
I agree, this is the message we should all send Giuliani :)
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I have lots of firearms., handguns, shotguns, rifles. Fucking enforce the laws on the books. Throw criminals who commit violent crimes in jail forever. Don't try and ban firearms. Thats just plain stupid.
I agree as well..plenty of good laws..enforce them.
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Are you saying that Rudy isn't gun friendly, Berserker?
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It's so easy to get guns these days. You can purchase a handgun in the city for like 600 because the animals that sell them buy from virginia where they're cheap. Stricter gun laws = good, but banning guns would not work at all as there are plenty of responsible people who shoot for pleasure.
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exactly, enforce the rules they got now. get caught with an illegal gun and go to jail. theres no possible way to collect all the guns in america, what are you gonna do go house to house? then people will begin hidding them. there will always be guns. shit, you can make a gun if you got the right tools.
like chris rock said. they shouldnt ban guns, just make every bullet cost 5,000 dollars. "holy shit, they put 50,000 dollars worth of bullets in his ass, he musta done something"
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Are you saying that Rudy isn't gun friendly, Berserker?
So I've heard mentioned a time or two or a whole shit load of times :)
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Holy shit! :o I can't believe that all of the pinko commies on here have the same viewpoint on this subject that I do! I feel like I just entered the twilight zone.
Who exactly was that directed at?
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It's so easy to get guns these days. You can purchase a handgun in the city for like 600 because the animals that sell them buy from virginia where they're cheap. Stricter gun laws = good, but banning guns would not work at all as there are plenty of responsible people who shoot for pleasure.
That's the one thing I miss about Virginia... I don't mind waiting 7 days for a new gun.
Oh, and if it's a USED gun, you can pick one up at a gun show instantly.
You can get guns in California though... Gun stores everywhere... Anyone who wants to get rid of guns can take their asses elsewhere because in the USA guns secure freedom for EVERYONE.
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Two years ago, 2 armed guys entered my brother's pharmacy with the intent to kill him and the other pharmacist and take a pallet of oxycodon out the back door.
He saw the masks and guns, and he drew his own weapon and fired first. The first guy was hit in the gut and spun around, and his partner decided not to enter the fray and ran at the door so hard he fractured his wrist and cracked the window as he hit it on the way out. My brother didn't fire at their backs.
It was an "inside job" - the scumbag girl who worked there set it up then called in sick that night. She confessed the plan and later testified against her man for a plea.
My brother would be dead today if they had banned guns. The two robbers wouldn't have turned their weapons in. No way. But my law-abiding brother would have been required to. Private ownership of guns saved his life that day.
Hell hath frozen over; I wholeheartedly agree with you.
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Anyone who wants to get rid of guns can take their asses elsewhere because in the USA guns secure freedom for EVERYONE.
Yes!
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Hell hath frozen over; I wholeheartedly agree with you.
(http://240fm.com/gb/cheers.gif)
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Who exactly was that directed at?
you Purge, OzmO, Berserker, Camel Jockey
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you Purge, OzmO, Berserker, Camel Jockey
I'm a Conservative, which would help to explain why I posted this thread to begin with. Some of the other guys you listed lean to the right too.
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you Purge, OzmO, Berserker, Camel Jockey
I am a libertarian.
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I'm a Conservative, which would help to explain why I posted this thread to begin with. Some of the other guys you listed lean to the right too.
I thought I have seen you post very liberal stuff on here. Aren't you the Purge that I argued with over on muscle mayhem? No, those guys lean left. I should have added Ribo. He is the farthest left on here.
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I thought I have seen you post very liberal stuff on here. Aren't you the Purge that I argued with over on muscle mayhem? No, those guys lean left. I should have added Ribo. He is the farthest left on here.
To be fair, I was a left-leaner while I was posting over at that heterosexually-challeneged website, but I've since changed many of my viewpoints. Some have stayed the same, though--I still can't stand Republicans. :)
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Dudes, I'm totally left... Call me a liberal if ya' wanna.
I make Obama look like Goldwater.
;)