Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: nastyn on March 27, 2007, 08:14:37 AM
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Who should have won the Olympia in 1991...Yates or Haney? I think Yates, he looked ridiculous, I think he might have put some fear into Haney at the competition considering Yates won one of the judging rounds....give ur opinions...
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I really think it was 16 years ago and long over.
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Overall.I also voted for Yates. But I didnt like pecs of yates. Comparing with haneys pecs,they were narrow and thin.
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any pics ??
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Haney. I liked Yates chest better, but that was it.
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:)
(http://www.athlete.ru/fotos/profi/dorian/dorian_yates_197_vs_lee_3.jpg)
(http://www.athlete.ru/fotos/profi/dorian/dorian_yates_196_vs_lee_2.jpg)
(http://www.athlete.ru/fotos/profi/dorian/dorian_yates_038.jpg)
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It could have gone either way. If Yates had won, I don't think anyone would have argued, including Lee.
I personally think Yates should have won conisdering he won the muscularity round despite being 11lbs lighter than Haney....that tells you a lot about his conditioning.
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Both Dorian and Lee look incredible in those shots.
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yates. everything from the pecs down on him was better. Abs, thighs, hamstrings, calfs..he was harder. Arms were about even, shoulders could have gone either way the only thing Lee beat him on was chest thickness and maybe back, yates crushed him on everything else...well maybe not crushed him but you get the point.
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:o
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::)
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Both has girlie arms.. who cares :P
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Haney. I liked Yates chest better, but that was it.
please explain... ?? ??? how on earth could someone argue that yates had a better chest then haney...
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Girlie arms??
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/haney/lh297.jpg)
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:o
that pic is incredible. Crushes everyone at the 06 olympia.
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Lee Haney won...hands down. Yates looked great. But Lee was in his best condition EVER that year. And I can say that being a HUGE Yates fan.
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please explain... ?? ??? how on earth could someone argue that yates had a better chest then haney...
Haney had a bigger chest, no disputing that. But his chest starts to sag at the bottom, whereas Dorian's flows well from the upper to lower pecs without the sag. It looks like his lower pecs are overdeveloped compared to his upper
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i was there and it was that close. if yates maybe had a posing coach (remember he was still a noob kinda and facing the man) it could have helped as far as presentation. yates had haney on conditioning no doubt.
could really have gone either way with no one complaining.
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The only thing Lee beat Dorian on was chest and Lee knew it. Right before the 2nd place winner was announced Lee was flexing only his chest as hard as he could to show it off.
Dorian beat Lee on:
Arms (bigger)
Conditioning
Back (Dorian's lower back blew Lee's away)
Calves (Lee had great claves for a black man though)
Shoulders (thicker and rounder)
It's hard to say who had the better quads. I think they're tied in this department.
Dorian's posing routine was also much better than Lee's. Here it is...
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1g4er_dorian-yates-1991-olympia (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1g4er_dorian-yates-1991-olympia)
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Also, think about how much of a shock this Olympia had to have been.
Some unknown comes out of nowhere and looks like he's going to beat the unbeatable Lee Haney!
It's pretty incredible to me.
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Haney had a bigger chest, no disputing that. But his chest starts to sag at the bottom, whereas Dorian's flows well from the upper to lower pecs without the sag. It looks like his lower pecs are overdeveloped compared to his upper
Just wanted to add one more thing.
Dorian was a master at making his physique flow. He really was a true body sculptor. His proportions were perfect early on in his career.
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Also, while not a Shawn Ray or Melvin Anthony. I thought his posing was great. It worked for his Body. Don't forget it was his first "O "
There are guys on the Olympia stage now that have been posing at the O for many years and they totally suck. Dorians style was perfectly suited for his type of physique and personality.
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I wasn't a bodybuilding fan back then, but I wish the phyiques still looked like this!
One word can sum up these physiques. QUALITY!
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/BBingDungeon/mr%20olympia%201991/4.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/BBingDungeon/mr%20olympia%201991/3.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/BBingDungeon/mr%20olympia%201991/1.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/attachments/bodybuilding-pictures/4392d1152554698-mr-olympia-91mrolympia17.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/attachments/bodybuilding-pictures/4419d1152555335-mr-olympia-91mrolympia46.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/attachments/bodybuilding-pictures/4432d1152555696-mr-olympia-091o13.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/attachments/bodybuilding-pictures/4375d1152554306-mr-olympia-6459.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/attachments/bodybuilding-pictures/4376d1152554306-mr-olympia-11-11.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/attachments/bodybuilding-pictures/4377d1152554306-mr-olympia-91mrolympia02.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/attachments/bodybuilding-pictures/4378d1152554314-mr-olympia-91mrolympia03.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/attachments/bodybuilding-pictures/4380d1152554435-mr-olympia-91mrolympia04.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/attachments/bodybuilding-pictures/4387d1152554536-mr-olympia-91mrolympia11.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/attachments/bodybuilding-pictures/4388d1152554604-mr-olympia-91mrolympia13.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/attachments/bodybuilding-pictures/4389d1152554604-mr-olympia-91mrolympia14.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/attachments/bodybuilding-pictures/4390d1152554604-mr-olympia-91mrolympia15.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/attachments/bodybuilding-pictures/4391d1152554615-mr-olympia-91mrolympia16.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/attachments/bodybuilding-pictures/4436d1152556045-mr-olympia-7854.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/attachments/bodybuilding-pictures/4444d1152556272-mr-olympia-26786984.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/attachments/bodybuilding-pictures/4456d1152556673-mr-olympia-34342440.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/attachments/bodybuilding-pictures/4458d1152556673-mr-olympia-34342462.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/attachments/bodybuilding-pictures/4459d1152556692-mr-olympia-index00.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/attachments/bodybuilding-pictures/4461d1152556751-mr-olympia-dy120.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/attachments/bodybuilding-pictures/4465d1152556852-mr-olympia-haneyvsyates223.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuildingdungeon.com/forums/attachments/bodybuilding-pictures/4466d1152556852-mr-olympia-index99.jpg)
(Photos Courtesy Bodybuilding Dungeon)
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:o
INCREDIBLE WOW!!
I haven't seen most pics on this thread but WOW that is a true champion right there!
Correct that two great champions. Hey Vince Taylor is pretty damn good.
Diezel is also a champ!
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=137415.0;attach=153974;image)
(http://www.athlete.ru/fotos/profi/dorian/dorian_yates_197_vs_lee_3.jpg)
Lights out as far as I'm concerned. Lee was the deserved champion. Dorian was still two full years away from his peak. I think Lee would have won had he come back in '92 as well.
SERGIO!!!!
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=137415.0;attach=153974;image)
(http://www.athlete.ru/fotos/profi/dorian/dorian_yates_197_vs_lee_3.jpg)
Lights out as far as I'm concerned. Lee was the deserved champion. Dorian was still two full years away from his peak. I think Lee would have won had he come back in '92 as well.
SERGIO!!!!
That lateral shot shows that Haney had the thicker chest, but Dorian had the better arms, shoulders, and midsection.
Despite Dorian's better conditioning Lee had much more detail in his muscle probably due to his age. Dorian was only 29 and hadn't achieved the muscle maturity Lee had.
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That was probably the best 1, 2 finish in Olympia history. An 8-time Mr. O in first and a soon to be 6-time Mr. O in second. It would have been nice to see Lee vs. Dorian in '92 & '93 as well.
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Haney had a bigger chest, no disputing that. But his chest starts to sag at the bottom, whereas Dorian's flows well from the upper to lower pecs without the sag. It looks like his lower pecs are overdeveloped compared to his upper
I think you are mistaking his long muscle bellys and low insertion points for sagging. That was the beauty of Haney's physique. Small hips, small waist, wide shoulders, low inserting lats and pecs, and HUMONGOUS traps. One of the best TORSOs ever. Lacked arms, and legs. But Torso was top notch.
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Girlie arms??
Oh sure you can always find the occasional angle where the arms actually fit with the oversized torso.
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That was probably the best 1, 2 finish in Olympia history. An 8-time Mr. O in first and a soon to be 6-time Mr. O in second. It would have been nice to see Lee vs. Dorian in '92 & '93 as well.
No comparison with '72. '98 & '99 the two top guys were also better-in terms of physiques not all this stuff about 8-time this or that.
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I think you are mistaking his long muscle bellys and low insertion points for sagging. That was the beauty of Haney's physique. Small hips, small waist, wide shoulders, low inserting lats and pecs, and HUMONGOUS traps. One of the best TORSOs ever. Lacked arms, and legs. But Torso was top notch.
You nailed it-one third of the physique (torso) was great, the rest underwhelming.
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You nailed it-one third of the physique (torso) was great, the rest underwhelming.
He had okay for the times legs, good triceps, terrible biceps, good forearms. His hamstrings were actually good, but lacked quad sweep/detail, had the hugest ass, but no cross striations, and low insertion, but not overwhelming calves.
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Haney had a bigger chest, no disputing that. But his chest starts to sag at the bottom, whereas Dorian's flows well from the upper to lower pecs without the sag. It looks like his lower pecs are overdeveloped compared to his upper
but sagging when relaxed is just an artifact of having a superbly huge and developed chest.
dorian's was far underdeveloped in comparison to Haney's, and to the rest of his torso.
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He had okay for the times legs, good triceps, terrible biceps, good forearms. His hamstrings were actually good, but lacked quad sweep/detail, had the hugest ass, but no cross striations, and low insertion, but not overwhelming calves.
Long story short, great torso & nothing else to match it.
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He had okay for the times legs, good triceps, terrible biceps, good forearms. His hamstrings were actually good, but lacked quad sweep/detail, had the hugest ass, but no cross striations, and low insertion, but not overwhelming calves.
His quads didn't have detail?
His legs have as much detail as Ronnie's. Half the size though...
(http://www.eskimo.com/~erics/Olympia2k2/image064.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/BBingDungeon/mr%20olympia%201991/1.jpg)
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It could have gone either way. If Yates had won, I don't think anyone would have argued, including Lee.
I personally think Yates should have won conisdering he won the muscularity round despite being 11lbs lighter than Haney....that tells you a lot about his conditioning.
Yates wasn't 11 lbs. lighter than Haney. They both were around 240.
ESPN had Haney at 241 and Yates at 239.
A website I linked the last time someone brought this up had them both at 245.
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Lee....Clearly the most genetic gifted MR. O
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Lee....Clearly the most genetic gifted MR. O
Not even in the top 5 most genetically gifted, considering the imbalances. IF his limbs had been comparable to the torso, he'd have been one of the best winners.
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Hammer, where you there. I was there and within twenty rows of the stage. Haney absolutely slaughtered Yates. Haney had far prettier muscle bellies, was larger and his taper was amazing. His waist absolutely made Yates look pregnant. Yates was a damn fine runner-up but that is all. In fact, Yates of 1991 was amazingly similar to Yates 1992. Haney would have whooped him then. Now, Yates of 1993 was a beast. He got a hold of some really good stuff. He was 256 pounds of iron. There, Yates would have won but only on size; his taper was slowly going south. Regardless, those early pics of Yates and Haney show how much better they are than Cutler. Ronnie in 1998/1999 and 2003 would have crushed any version of either, however. Oops, isn't there a small thread around here about that matter....sorry.
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=137415.0;attach=153974;image) :o
WOW. If Haney showed up at the Olympia in 2006 looking like that, I'd give him the title right there. Just shows how there's been no progress since 1991.
Of course, if he looked like that, he'd place 7th today since the judges really know what they're doing. ::)
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Yes, Yates weighed 239 in 1991 and 242 in 1992. As for Haney, I do know that he came in lighter that year (around 240). In 1987, Haney competed at 259 pounds (his heaviest competition bodyweight). It seemed pretty even for Yates and Haney in 1991.
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91 was haney's all time best conditioning and leg seperation was his best ,he seemed to know this was the end and finished off as a winner.yate's knew he needed a back after been beaten by benaziza in 90NOC and haney in 91 O.
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Yates had the better back.
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Not even close, Haney destroyed Yates. Haney was thicker, more symmetrical and had a better waist to shoulder taper. If you saw it live or even on video it was clear Haney was way better than Yates.
i was there, haney was not the clear winner. he lost the muscularity round. that counts for alot.
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i was there, haney was not the clear winner. he lost the muscularity round. that counts for alot.
If Yates had won, I don't think you would have argued.....hell, even the video commentator said Yates is "like Haney with bigger legs and back"
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Hammer, where you there. I was there and within twenty rows of the stage. Haney absolutely slaughtered Yates. Haney had far prettier muscle bellies, was larger and his taper was amazing. His waist absolutely made Yates look pregnant. Yates was a damn fine runner-up but that is all. In fact, Yates of 1991 was amazingly similar to Yates 1992. Haney would have whooped him then. Now, Yates of 1993 was a beast. He got a hold of some really good stuff. He was 256 pounds of iron. There, Yates would have won but only on size; his taper was slowly going south. Regardless, those early pics of Yates and Haney show how much better they are than Cutler. Ronnie in 1998/1999 and 2003 would have crushed any version of either, however. Oops, isn't there a small thread around here about that matter....sorry.
I knew you would give your 50 cents on this one...
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Haney defeated Dorian due to better symmetry. By that, I mean that Haney had the better structure and proportionality. Lee clearly won the symmetry round due to his wasp-waist and wide clavicles. I have said time and time again that Haney is an underrated bodybuilder. He is, arguably, the only bodybuilder who could do a vacuum pose at 250 lbs and had no muscle missing.
As far as muscularity, I think it was much closer than the judges ruled. It's obvious that Haney's delts and pecs were thicker than Dorian's, and while they had equivalent backs in terms of size, Haney's was more separated. The only bodypart, I think, that Dorian soundly defeated Haney was in legs, both quads and calves. Here is what Dorian had to say about his confrontation with Haney:
"At the time, I feel that Lee's posing and presentation were much better than mine. Physically, his pecs were thicker and his back probably better. It's a shame that he retired, because I would ahve loved a re-match." Interview to Bill Dobbins, FLEX, 1997.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Hammer, where you there. I was there and within twenty rows of the stage. Haney absolutely slaughtered Yates. Haney had far prettier muscle bellies, was larger and his taper was amazing. His waist absolutely made Yates look pregnant. Yates was a damn fine runner-up but that is all. In fact, Yates of 1991 was amazingly similar to Yates 1992. Haney would have whooped him then. Now, Yates of 1993 was a beast. He got a hold of some really good stuff. He was 256 pounds of iron. There, Yates would have won but only on size; his taper was slowly going south. Regardless, those early pics of Yates and Haney show how much better they are than Cutler. Ronnie in 1998/1999 and 2003 would have crushed any version of either, however. Oops, isn't there a small thread around here about that matter....sorry.
agreed!
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Haney defeated Dorian due to better symmetry. By that, I mean that Haney had the better structure and proportionality. Lee clearly won the symmetry round due to his wasp-waist and wide clavicles. I have said time and time again that Haney is an underrated bodybuilder. He is, arguably, the only bodybuilder who could do a vacuum pose at 250 lbs and had no muscle missing.
As far as muscularity, I think it was much closer than the judges ruled. It's obvious that Haney's delts and pecs were thicker than Dorian's, and while they had equivalent backs in terms of size, Haney's was more separated. The only bodypart, I think, that Dorian soundly defeated Haney was in legs, both quads and calves. Here is what Dorian had to say about his confrontation with Haney:
"At the time, I feel that Lee's posing and presentation were much better than mine. Physically, his pecs were thicker and his back probably better. It's a shame that he retired, because I would ahve loved a re-match." Interview to Bill Dobbins, FLEX, 1997.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Mostly agree but while Dorian's calves and hams were better than Haney's, his quads were not. Dorian's quads lacked detail/striations and weren't wuite big enough for his upper body and calves. Haney's quads were striated, had a little more sweep than Dorian's and didn't lag as much behind his body. So they both had pros/cons about their legs.
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Blah, blah, blah ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Bottom line: they were very comparable. Who was better is personal taste. Top-notch tier-B Olympians. Both far too flawed to be in the same sentence with Coleman, Schwarzenegger & Oliva. Let alone being any better than guys who would've beaten them in fair contests, like Wheeler, Dillet, Levrone, Nasser, etc.
Hope this helps
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but sagging when relaxed is just an artifact of having a superbly huge and developed chest.
dorian's was far underdeveloped in comparison to Haney's, and to the rest of his torso.
dorian said in his first book that haney was the winner.
however, yates did win the muscularity round.
something that never happend in 8 years to haney.
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Blah, blah, blah ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Bottom line: they were very comparable. Who was better is personal taste. Top-notch tier-B Olympians. Both far too flawed to be in the same sentence with Coleman, Schwarzenegger & Oliva. Let alone being any better than guys who would've beaten them in fair contests, like Wheeler, Dillet, Levrone, Nasser, etc.
Hope this helps
Lee Haney was not any tire-B, you retard. He won eight Olympias, five of those with straight-firsts scores. No other bodybuilder carried 250 lbs with as much quality as Haney. He could do a vacuum pose at that weight, and his serratus separations were second to none. Not only that, he set the standards for deltoid width-to-waist-ratio. I personally think he should have lost in 1990 to Benfatto, but the bottom line is that is that Lee was on another level when it came to pectoralis, latissimus and deltoid development, and although he wasn't as symmetrical as Benfatto in terms of muscular proportionality and structure, he was still able to hold his own in two of the three angles of the symmetry round - from the sides and back -, and won convincingly five o the seven mandatories in the symmetry round, with the other two being debateable - Benfatto had a smaller hips, which helped him in the abs-and-thighs, besides having better abdominal and serratus separations, and was also more complete in the side triceps shot. As for shape, Benfatto had smaller joints and rounder muscle bellies, but Haney had a more dramatic clavicle-to-waist ratio, thus matching him for aesthetics.
Haney was not lacking in structure. This is a given. Look at him and you'll observe that the legh of his legs are in proportion to his torso, and that his clavicle-to-hips ratio was one of the best ever. Fantastic! And as great as his skeletal structure goes, Lee Haney didn't lack a single muscle. Observe, as an example, the place where his vastus lateralis and medialis heads insert, and you'll see that the isertion points are close to his knees. This is also true when it comes to the back: his latissimus, teres major and minor as well as the infra-spinatus all insert way down the tendom, with his latissimus inserting close to his kidneys. Lee Haney's incredible structure as well as long muscle bellies allowed him to a be a big competitor who also was able to compete with the smaller guys in the symmetry round.
So Lee Haney is symmetrical both from a skeletal as well as muscular point of view, but the real question is: How did these advantages work for him i the symmetry and muscularity rounds of all the bodybuilding contests he took part of? Well, Haney was at a disadvantage from the sides in terms of symmetry to a great extent, because the few muscle that he was lacking in were mostly visible from this angle. When standing relaxed from the sides in the relaxed round, Lee Haney's incredible serratus separations was down played because his calves were small, and his vastus lareralis was out of proportion with his very thick pectoralis major muscle, thus resulting in a poor view as far as symmetry is concerned. Regardless, he lacked the faults that are so common among recent bodybuilders, such as a distended midsection, and he had classically separated intercostals and serratus. Notwithstading his ew flaws, he was able to match his competitors in the relaxed side shot. Now, from the back, the first thing that caught your attention about Lee Haney was his incredible taper, the result of his genetically narrow hips and wide cobra lats. His competitors might have had smaller waists, but Haney had the better taper overral, so he wins the back angle of the symmetry round covincingly. The one angle I thik Lee Haney had problems was from the front. The reasons for this are several-fold: his clavicles, although very wide, were not able to give him an advantage in taper due to his hips which, although narrow, were not so narrow as that of guys like Ray and Benfatto; his abdominal separations didn't shine as much as that o the smaller guys, and his quadriceps, although the most massive omong that os his competitors, had defective separations between vastus lateralis, medialis and sartorius when compared to the ultra-shredded ones of the smaller guys. Regardless, Lee Haney wins the symmetry round overral, due to him being better in two of the three angles of the round - the sides and back. And regardless, the symmetry round is only 50% of the judging, and Lee Haney was as good as any at this round, although usually not the best overral.
Moving on the the mandatories, you understand that Lee Haney wins five of the seven convincingly because his few symmetrical liabilities were mostly visible from the sides, and his sheer volume was obvious, and he was able to present them with great separations even when he was of, due to his incredible genetics for separations. from the front, he only would be challenged in the abs-and-thighs, because this mandatory is all about separations between the four quadriceps heads and abdomen and serratus, and while Lee Haney was more massively developed when it came to quads, he was lacking in separation overral when compared to the smaller guys. Besides the abs-and-thigh, the only other mandatory that Haney could lose would be the side triceps, due to his poor outer triceps head, small calves and a disbalance between pectorialis and vastus medialis. Regardlles, he won the front lat spread covincingly due to his advantage in latissimus width and taper, the front double biceps because, although his biceps were lacking in peak - and only in peak -, they were huge and Lee Haney had the advantage in quadriceps and pectoralis development. He won the side chest for the simple reason that his pectoralis were thicker, not to mentio that he had, like Arnold, an incredible upper pec development, giving his pecs an incredible shape. His weakness here was the same as the one he had in the side triceps: the calves. Now, This was not a problem for Lee Haney, because, while in the side triceps shot his weak calves were complimented by equally weak triceps, this is not the case in the side chest, where the relatively sub-par calves of Lee Haney are the only real liability that he has; it is unlikely that this, by itsel, would be enough to make him lose the pose considering his massive advantages in muscularity. The real lat spread is where Lee Haney was really dominant, except for his relatively poor calves. He possessed incredible symmetry due to his taper, and his latissimus was on it's ow league, both in terms of width and thickness. The back double biceps was another pose where Lee Haney dominated, although not to the same extent that on the reart lat spread. This pose again emphasizes separations and not width and thickness, and Haey was not as separated as the other smaller guys. Yet, he wo the pose overral.
Now, Lee Haney wo so many cotests due to his overral superiority in terms of muscularity and symmetry, both in terms of structure as well as muscular proportionality, but what really made him stand out was his presentation. By that, I don't mean posing; that is only part of it. Presentation emcompasses several different aspects that come together to determine the utltimate quality of a physique: posing, tanning, proper shaving, selecting the right song and the right routine, and also even things that oridinarily dont come into play, such as GI health - a helthy GI makes one's skin more lustrous, thus giving the competotors a healthier, more conditioned look. Lee Haney was always right on target on contest day, and everything in his physique was precisely tunned to make his shine. For instance, when posing he would tilt his back and contract his neck up and down. This brought up the trpaezius and teres tie-inseparations while doing the back double biceps, which is usually not seen. About six weeks befor the contst, Lee Haney started to do Yoga breathing exercises, so that he could force his sternum out while simulatenously contracting the muscles of the abdominal cavity, thus bringing out the coveted vacuum pose. Lee Haney also took a shot of intavenous vasodilator right befre the contest, so as to cause expansion of the capillaries and brig out the most vascularity. All of this added up to the presentation. he musics were had usually heroid themes, such as Mozart's 9nth Symphony. He would cotract his muscles very quickly and then he would make a abrup strop, thus transmitting a general idea of power and dominance. This is in cotrast to bodybuilder like Lee Labrada, who always preferred ballads and erudit music, which suited more his classical physique, and transmitted an idea of contemplation and beauty.
This all added up with Lee Haney's conditioning, which was usually the best onstage besides that of Rich Gaspari - and Labrada at the 1988 Olympia, which was one of the best coditionings ever wittnessed onstage. Lee Haney pioneered the concepts of carb-loading and Sodium depletion for increasing intra-muscular water stores while simultaneously depleting water sub-cutaneously. He would eat no more than 50 grams of complex carbs a day for the last two weeks beore the contest and then, three days out, he would increase his intake to 1000 grams a day, while simultaneously he would stop drinking water and would ingest no Sodium at all, thus forcing out all the water from beneath his ski to inside his muscles, to be stored together with the carbs as glycogen. This all resulted in a physique characterized by incredibly full muscles, with great separations and dryness. Even to this day, this is the best way to dry out without diuretics. Besides, Lee Haney was blessed with incredible genetics or separations, so he would be shredded even when retaining water. So, Lee Haney presented the most muscular and symmetrical - both in terms of skeletal as well as muscular proportionality - physique of his era to it's best, and he would be very separated even when off. Game over. Lee Haney: great champion and arguably the greatest Mr.Olympia ever in terms of actual physique.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Lee Haney was not any tire-B, you retard. He won eight Olympias, five of those with straight-firsts scores. No other bodybuilder carried 250 lbs with as much quality as Haney. He could do a vacuum pose at that weight, and his serratus separations were second to none. Not only that, he set the standards for deltoid width-to-waist-ratio. I personally think he should have lost in 1990 to Benfatto, but the bottom line is that is that Lee was on another level when it came to pectoralis, latissimus and deltoid development, and although he wasn't as symmetrical as Benfatto in terms of muscular proportionality and structure, he was still able to hold his own in two of the three angles of the symmetry round - from the sides and back -, and won convincingly five o the seven mandatories in the symmetry round, with the other two being debateable - Benfatto had a smaller hips, which helped him in the abs-and-thighs, besides having better abdominal and serratus separations, and was also more complete in the side triceps shot. As for shape, Benfatto had smaller joints and rounder muscle bellies, but Haney had a more dramatic clavicle-to-waist ratio, thus matching him for aesthetics.
Haney was not lacking in structure. This is a given. Look at him and you'll observe that the legh of his legs are in proportion to his torso, and that his clavicle-to-hips ratio was one of the best ever. Fantastic! And as great as his skeletal structure goes, Lee Haney didn't lack a single muscle. Observe, as an example, the place where his vastus lateralis and medialis heads insert, and you'll see that the isertion points are close to his knees. This is also true when it comes to the back: his latissimus, teres major and minor as well as the infra-spinatus all insert way down the tendom, with his latissimus inserting close to his kidneys. Lee Haney's incredible structure as well as long muscle bellies allowed him to a be a big competitor who also was able to compete with the smaller guys in the symmetry round.
So Lee Haney is symmetrical both from a skeletal as well as muscular point of view, but the real question is: How did these advantages work for him i the symmetry and muscularity rounds of all the bodybuilding contests he took part of? Well, Haney was at a disadvantage from the sides in terms of symmetry to a great extent, because the few muscle that he was lacking in were mostly visible from this angle. When standing relaxed from the sides in the relaxed round, Lee Haney's incredible serratus separations was down played because his calves were small, and his vastus lareralis was out of proportion with his very thick pectoralis major muscle, thus resulting in a poor view as far as symmetry is concerned. Regardless, he lacked the faults that are so common among recent bodybuilders, such as a distended midsection, and he had classically separated intercostals and serratus. Notwithstading his ew flaws, he was able to match his competitors in the relaxed side shot. Now, from the back, the first thing that caught your attention about Lee Haney was his incredible taper, the result of his genetically narrow hips and wide cobra lats. His competitors might have had smaller waists, but Haney had the better taper overral, so he wins the back angle of the symmetry round covincingly. The one angle I thik Lee Haney had problems was from the front. The reasons for this are several-fold: his clavicles, although very wide, were not able to give him an advantage in taper due to his hips which, although narrow, were not so narrow as that of guys like Ray and Benfatto; his abdominal separations didn't shine as much as that o the smaller guys, and his quadriceps, although the most massive omong that os his competitors, had defective separations between vastus lateralis, medialis and sartorius when compared to the ultra-shredded ones of the smaller guys. Regardless, Lee Haney wins the symmetry round overral, due to him being better in two of the three angles of the round - the sides and back. And regardless, the symmetry round is only 50% of the judging, and Lee Haney was as good as any at this round, although usually not the best overral.
Moving on the the mandatories, you understand that Lee Haney wins five of the seven convincingly because his few symmetrical liabilities were mostly visible from the sides, and his sheer volume was obvious, and he was able to present them with great separations even when he was of, due to his incredible genetics for separations. from the front, he only would be challenged in the abs-and-thighs, because this mandatory is all about separations between the four quadriceps heads and abdomen and serratus, and while Lee Haney was more massively developed when it came to quads, he was lacking in separation overral when compared to the smaller guys. Besides the abs-and-thigh, the only other mandatory that Haney could lose would be the side triceps, due to his poor outer triceps head, small calves and a disbalance between pectorialis and vastus medialis. Regardlles, he won the front lat spread covincingly due to his advantage in latissimus width and taper, the front double biceps because, although his biceps were lacking in peak - and only in peak -, they were huge and Lee Haney had the advantage in quadriceps and pectoralis development. He won the side chest for the simple reason that his pectoralis were thicker, not to mentio that he had, like Arnold, an incredible upper pec development, giving his pecs an incredible shape. His weakness here was the same as the one he had in the side triceps: the calves. Now, This was not a problem for Lee Haney, because, while in the side triceps shot his weak calves were complimented by equally weak triceps, this is not the case in the side chest, where the relatively sub-par calves of Lee Haney are the only real liability that he has; it is unlikely that this, by itsel, would be enough to make him lose the pose considering his massive advantages in muscularity. The real lat spread is where Lee Haney was really dominant, except for his relatively poor calves. He possessed incredible symmetry due to his taper, and his latissimus was on it's ow league, both in terms of width and thickness. The back double biceps was another pose where Lee Haney dominated, although not to the same extent that on the reart lat spread. This pose again emphasizes separations and not width and thickness, and Haey was not as separated as the other smaller guys. Yet, he wo the pose overral.
Now, Lee Haney wo so many cotests due to his overral superiority in terms of muscularity and symmetry, both in terms of structure as well as muscular proportionality, but what really made him stand out was his presentation. By that, I don't mean posing; that is only part of it. Presentation emcompasses several different aspects that come together to determine the utltimate quality of a physique: posing, tanning, proper shaving, selecting the right song and the right routine, and also even things that oridinarily dont come into play, such as GI health - a helthy GI makes one's skin more lustrous, thus giving the competotors a healthier, more conditioned look. Lee Haney was always right on target on contest day, and everything in his physique was precisely tunned to make his shine. For instance, when posing he would tilt his back and contract his neck up and down. This brought up the trpaezius and teres tie-inseparations while doing the back double biceps, which is usually not seen. About six weeks befor the contst, Lee Haney started to do Yoga breathing exercises, so that he could force his sternum out while simulatenously contracting the muscles of the abdominal cavity, thus bringing out the coveted vacuum pose. Lee Haney also took a shot of intavenous vasodilator right befre the contest, so as to cause expansion of the capillaries and brig out the most vascularity. All of this added up to the presentation. he musics were had usually heroid themes, such as Mozart's 9nth Symphony. He would cotract his muscles very quickly and then he would make a abrup strop, thus transmitting a general idea of power and dominance. This is in cotrast to bodybuilder like Lee Labrada, who always preferred ballads and erudit music, which suited more his classical physique, and transmitted an idea of contemplation and beauty.
This all added up with Lee Haney's conditioning, which was usually the best onstage besides that of Rich Gaspari - and Labrada at the 1988 Olympia, which was one of the best coditionings ever wittnessed onstage. Lee Haney pioneered the concepts of carb-loading and Sodium depletion for increasing intra-muscular water stores while simultaneously depleting water sub-cutaneously. He would eat no more than 50 grams of complex carbs a day for the last two weeks beore the contest and then, three days out, he would increase his intake to 1000 grams a day, while simultaneously he would stop drinking water and would ingest no Sodium at all, thus forcing out all the water from beneath his ski to inside his muscles, to be stored together with the carbs as glycogen. This all resulted in a physique characterized by incredibly full muscles, with great separations and dryness. Even to this day, this is the best way to dry out without diuretics. Besides, Lee Haney was blessed with incredible genetics or separations, so he would be shredded even when retaining water. So, Lee Haney presented the most muscular and symmetrical - both in terms of skeletal as well as muscular proportionality - physique of his era to it's best, and he would be very separated even when off. Game over. Lee Haney: great champion and arguably the greatest Mr.Olympia ever in terms of actual physique.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
I counted 6 paragraphs. One more and it would have been to much. :-\
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dorian said in his first book that haney was the winner.
however, yates did win the muscularity round.
something that never happend in 8 years to haney.
yes, and the reason that never happened was that Haney's main competition throughout his entire reign was Rich Gaspari and Lee Labrada, both much much smaller than Haney.
Had Mike Christian had legs, Haney might have had more trouble with him than he did.
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yes, and the reason that never happened was that Haney's main competition throughout his entire reign was Rich Gaspari and Lee Labrada, both much much smaller than Haney.
Had Mike Christian had legs, Haney might have had more trouble with him than he did.
Or Strydom had a back and could pose for his life ;D
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Blah, blah, blah ZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Bottom line: they were very comparable. Who was better is personal taste. Top-notch tier-B Olympians. Both far too flawed to be in the same sentence with Coleman, Schwarzenegger & Oliva. Let alone being any better than guys who would've beaten them in fair contests, like Wheeler, Dillet, Levrone, Nasser, etc.
Hope this helps
ok ::) arnold had no legs, coleman no calves and shit mid section. and haney got 8 o's before anyone and should still be regarded the greatest. stop the name calling bullshit. anyone that won the o is the man. there is no tiers.
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I knew you would give your 50 cents on this one... ::)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Sucky, don't sweat me on this. I was there and you know Haney is my fav bodybuilder. I admit that I am a little biased, but come on. Haney looked miles better than Dorian that year. Dorian may have the graininess, but his muscle bellies could not hold a candle to Haney. I am not getting into the Coleman vs Yates crap again; that thread has been kicked around and beaten up for over a thousand pages. I admit that in 1993 Yates would have won. In 1993 Yates had arguably one of the top three physiques ever. Was he better than Haney or Coleman or Ahnold...that is subjective. However, in 1991 he was a newcomer who still did not have the quality to beat an eight time Mr. Olympia. I know we disagree on points but why the sarcasm. Whether you agree with me or Hulkster or ND is your business; this is a thread where people can call it like they see them. Don't get so testy about subjective matter that means very little in the bigger picture of our screwed up world. ;)
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yes, and the reason that never happened was that Haney's main competition throughout his entire reign was Rich Gaspari and Lee Labrada, both much much smaller than Haney.
Had Mike Christian had legs, Haney might have had more trouble with him than he did.
even if MC had legs, haney was still much bigger and better. esp. from the back.
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There was something that took place in 1991 that people felt was a HUGE mistake made by Lee Haney. He left Weider and signed with Twin Lab in the spring of 1991.
Big contracts were flying around for the first time in bodybuilding history. The WBF signed 13 athletes and The Weiders were trying to get Lou Ferrigno to compete at the 1991 Olympia to bring back the attention to the IFBB (didnt happen until 1992).
Despite leaving Weider, Lee did win the 1991 Olympia and he desreved it. But is was VERY close.
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Girlie arms??
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/haney/lh297.jpg)
EXACTLY my thoughts. It just goes to show how jaded and twisted some of us have become. When a 20" super muscular set of arms can be called "girlie" you KNOW a mofo has skewed judgement. >:(
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There was something that took place in 1991 that people felt was a HUGE mistake made by Lee Haney. He left Weider and signed with Twin Lab in the spring of 1991.
Big contracts were flying around for the first time in bodybuilding history. The WBF signed 13 athletes and The Weiders were trying to get Lou Ferrigno to compete at the 1991 Olympia to bring back the attention to the IFBB (didnt happen until 1992).
Despite leaving Weider, Lee did win the 1991 Olympia and he desreved it. But is was VERY close.
If I'm not mistaken, Haney jumped from Weider to Twinlab in 1990. Between that and the drug-testing, some thought Haney would lose his crown that year. But, "The Awesome One" held on to the title.
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I love Doz... but Haney was the champ!
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AMAZING!
There's not a single picture from a similar angle where Jay or Ronnie (post 1998) look that good.
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/haney/lh297.jpg)