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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: BayGBM on April 14, 2007, 11:16:09 AM
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Newspaper headlines consistently remind us of the failures coming out of Iraq. But, if wars always produce losers, it is also true that most wars have their fair share of winners, too. So, four years into the fighting, what institutions, countries, ideas, or individuals are better off because of the war? Who, in essence, are Iraq’s winners?
1. Iran
After nearly 25 years of wrestling with Saddam Hussein, Iran’s Shiite rulers have the war to thank for their newfound power.
The new Iraq was supposed to be a model for the Middle East and a threat to Iran’s theocracy. Instead, Iran has emerged as the biggest winner of the United States’ war. There is little stability or democracy in Iraq to impress Iranians. Conjuring more fear than hope, the war did nothing to loosen the grip of clerical rule over the country. Iranians rejoiced in the fall of Saddam, who fought an eight-year war against their country that killed hundreds of thousands of people, many by chemical weapons. For Iran, the war in Iraq turned out to be a strategic windfall, uprooting Baathism and pacifying a nemesis that had been a thorn in its side for much of the 20th century. Iraq’s new Shiite—and in good measure, Kurdish—masters enjoy friendly ties with Iran. It was no coincidence that Iran was the first of Iraq’s neighbors to recognize its new government and to encourage Iraqis to participate in the political process introduced by the United States.
In the political vacuum that followed Saddam’s fall, Iranian influence quickly spread into southern Iraq on the back of commercial connections—driven by a growing volume of trade and a massive flow of Iranian pilgrims into shrine cities of Iraq—and burgeoning intelligence and political ties. Iran’s influence quickly extended to every level of Iraq’s bureaucracy, Shiite clerical and tribal establishments, and security and political apparatuses. The war turned a large part of Iraq into an Iranian sphere of influence, and equally important, paved the way for Iranian hegemony in the Persian Gulf. With the Iraqi Army gone, there is no military bulwark in the Persian Gulf to contain Iran’s expansionist ambitions.
Iraq also changed the context for U.S.-Iran relations. The Bush administration, having named Iran as part of an “Axis of Evil,” categorically ruled out dealing with it—even after the two countries successfully collaborated over the fate of Afghanistan after the fall of the Taliban in 2001. Regime change in Tehran was Washington’s mantra in 2002. Yet, since the war in Iraq began four years ago, Washington has balked at seriously engaging Iran—despite the impasse over the nuclear issue, Iran’s support for Hezbollah and Hamas, and virulent attacks against Israel. Instead, the United States has decided that the path to regional stability lies in confrontation and rolling back Iran’s regional influence. However, growing anti-Americanism in the Arab world, combined with the expanding U.S. military commitment to Iraq, will make it difficult for Washington to contain Iran easily. In short, Iraq has strengthened Iran and weakened the United States.
Still, Iran’s gains are matched by new challenges. Tehran may no longer have much to fear from those who rule Baghdad, but the chaos brewing within Iraq’s borders makes Iranian rulers nervous. A failed Iraq—or worse, a warring Iraq infested with radical ideologies and ruled by violent militias—threatens Iran’s stability. Kurdish autonomy or independence could disturb Iran’s own delicate Kurdish situation. Arab capitals are abuzz with talk of the Iranian threat, raising the specter of an anti-Iranian regional alignment. The war in Iraq has turned Iran into the bugbear of the region. But that is ultimately a price Iran is willing to pay for winning in Iraq.
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2. Moqtada al-Sadr
3. Al Qaeda
4. Samuel Huntington
5. China
6. Arab Dictators
7. The Price of Oil
8. The United Nations
9. Old Europe
10. Israel
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2. Moqtada al-Sadr
3. China
4. Samuel Huntington
5. China
6. Arab Dictators
7. The Price of Oil
8. The United Nations
9. Old Europe
10. Israel
Gee Bay, ...I don't see the USA anywhere on your list. ???
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Gee Bay, ...I don't see the USA anywhere on your list. ???
and his opinion is all that matters in the world....
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Gee Bay, ...I don't see the USA anywhere on your list. ???
The list was compiled by the editors of Foreign Policy magazine. This subject is their current cover story.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=220
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The list was compiled by the editors of Foreign Policy magazine. This subject is their current cover story.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=220
oh my bad...since they can see the future ask them what #s to play at the roulette table tonight
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The list was compiled by the editors of Foreign Policy magazine. This subject is their current cover story.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=220
Does that mean that the editors of Forign Policy magazine don't think the USA is even among the top 10 winners in the war in Iraq? Interesting.... hmmmm.
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Does that mean that the editors of Forign Policy magazine don't think the USA is even among the top 10 winners in the war in Iraq? Interesting.... hmmmm.
So today you guys are taking everyword that these editors say as gospel, funny..if they had an opinion different than yours you would have been calling them idiots. I respect their opinion but, you guys act like they posted facts or something
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Bin Laden #1. His mission accomplished.
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I was reading FP in the library yesterday. If you get it at your library this article on "Iraq's Sticker Price" is worth a read.
Iraq's Sticker Price
The White House estimated that the Iraq war would cost $50 billion. Today, it’s closing in on 10 times that amount. And those are just the costs we know about...
By Gordon Adams
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Certainly not us. I'm paying $2.80 a gallon for gas, and that's 87, the lowest grade of gas.
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Rich White people will win, just as they planned.
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Certainly not us. I'm paying $2.80 a gallon for gas, and that's 87, the lowest grade of gas.
it went to $3.07 here in Vegas today, glad I'm only here a short time
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Bin Laden #1. His mission accomplished.
bin laden died in late 2001/early 2002 in Egypt.
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it went to $3.07 here in Vegas today, glad I'm only here a short time
you all are big babies! :)
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Rich White people will win, just as they planned.
Don't forget those jews.. Not trying to be racist here, but it's the fucking truth.
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you all are big babies! :)
:o
And I was complaining about paying $2.80 a gallon.
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Don't forget those jews.. Not trying to be racist here, but it's the fucking truth.
wait, so you can say that..point out a "truth" about Jews but if I say a crime is more likely to be committed by a black (which I can back up with stats) I am a racist? I am losing count of the hyprocrisy on here
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wait, so you can say that..point out a "truth" about Jews but if I say a crime is more likely to be committed by a black (which I can back up with stats) I am a racist? I am losing count of the hyprocrisy on here
I don't have a problem with what you said. What I do have a problem with is you trying to run away from what you said by blaming "libs." I've insulted blacks, hispanics, jews and other ethnic groups on these forums and I've been honest about it.
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Certainly not us. I'm paying $2.80 a gallon for gas, and that's 87, the lowest grade of gas.
You know, ...there's a way to save yourself 7 - 14% or possibly more on your fuel costs.
That's like gassing up at a station selling gas at $2.40 while everyone else is charging $2.80.
Would you purposely intentionally choose $2.80 gas over $2.40 gas? ...cause that what you're doing without using the MPG-CAP (http://jme.mpgproduct.com/default.aspx?cid=50962). The sad part is, you're already paying for the MPG-CAP in the cost of your fuel.
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bin laden died in late 2001/early 2002 in Egypt.
naturally you can prove that...I mean you wouldn't post something that isn't backed with facts..well aside from all of your 9/11 posts
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You know, ...there's a way to save yourself 7 - 14% or possibly more on your fuel costs.
That's like gassing up at a station selling gas at $2.40 while everyone else is charging $2.80.
Would you purposely intentionally choose $2.80 gas over $2.40 gas? ...cause that what you're doing without using the MPG-CAP (http://jme.mpgproduct.com/default.aspx?cid=50962). The sad part is, you're already paying for the MPG-CAP in the cost of your fuel.
Oh geez. Sorry Jag, I'm not buying.
And I'm not really sure the Politics board is the place for you to be marketing whatever scam product you're trying to unload on potential suckers customers.
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Oh geez. Sorry Jag, I'm not buying.
And I'm not really sure the Politics board is the place for you to be marketing whatever scam product you're trying to unload on potential suckers customers.
Cardio,
You brought up the price of your gas, ...it simply follows that I'm gonna mention how you can save 7 - 14%
If you want to continue to overpay at the pump, ...by all means you're free to do so, ...but don't slander me or my product by calling it a scam, ...especially when you know nothing about it.
ps - The only suckers are those who continue to overpay for fuel. 8)
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Explain this product. I say this not as a buyer but as someone who has heard about how you operate on this site.
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Cardio,
You brought up the price of your gas, ...it simply follows that I'm gonna mention how you can save 7 - 14%
If you want to continue to overpay at the pump, ...by all means you're free to do so, ...but don't slander me or my product by calling it a scam, ...especially when you know nothing about it.
ps - The only suckers are those who continue to overpay for fuel. 8)
Jag,
Sorry if you think I slandered your product but you might want to read a few of the studies out there stating just that. I just spent 5 minutes reading what came up when I typed MPG Caps into Google. And quite a few VERY reputable sources have called your product just what I called it.
And I'll state my first point again, I don't think the Politics board is the place for you to troll for potential suckers customers.
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Jag,
Sorry if you think I slandered your product but you might want to read a few of the studies out there stating just that. I just spent 5 minutes reading what came up when I typed MPG Caps into Google. And quite a few VERY reputable sources have called your product just what I called it.
And I'll state my first point again, I don't think the Politics board is the place for you to troll for potential suckers customers.
Guilt by association perhaps and painting with too wide a brush.
I guess it also depends on what you consider to be a reputable source. Many govs around the world do not consider the US gov or the US military to be a very credible source, and have required tests to be conducted in their own countries. I guess the word of your government is no longer accepted around the world like it once used to be.
You're entitled to your opinions and prejudices about my product... that's fine.
You'll just continue to overpay for fuel, {shrug} ...if you're fine with that, so am I
I'm not the troll here cardio, ...it was a natural progression that YOU opened the door to.
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Guilt by association perhaps and painting with too wide a brush.
I guess it also depends on what you consider to be a reputable source. Many govs around the world do not consider the US gov or the US military to be a very credible source, and have required tests to be conducted in their own countries. I guess the word of your government is no longer accepted around the world like it once used to be.
You're entitled to your opinions and prejudices about my product... that's fine.
You'll just continue to overpay for fuel, {shrug} ...if you're fine with that, so am I
I'm not the troll here cardio, ...it was a natural progression that YOU opened the door to.
I was referring to AAA and I'm not really sure there's any grounds to question AAA's reputation.
This is a politics board and in the context of a political conversation I commented on what I pay for gas. That doesn't open the door for you to try and make a sale.
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I was referring to AAA and I'm not really sure there's any grounds to question AAA's reputation.
I don't question AAA's reputation, ...only their methodology for testing the product.
Something that requires it to be fully dissolved, and used for 4 tankfuls or at least 80 gallons worth of fuel consumption before you can expect to start seeing any results should not be categorized as a bogus product when undissolved and barely 2 gallons of fuel has been consumed.
This is a politics board and in the context of a political conversation I commented on what I pay for gas. That doesn't open the door for you to try and make a sale.
I wasn't trying to make a sale, simply informing you of something that would have a positive effect on the cost of your fuel.