Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Nutrition, Products & Supplements Info => Topic started by: Lugar on April 23, 2007, 07:11:00 AM
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I'd love to know some experiences with cytogainer, myoplex packets, Up your Mass, and Muscle Milk LIGHT......anyone use them? Gains? Lean? Dry?
I'm worried about the sodium content #1, and the ingredients #2...along with results...
Would just oats and whey be the BEST alternative for a shake pw IF YOU couldn't get a meal in for 1.5-2.5 hours?
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I'd love to know some experiences with cytogainer, myoplex packets, Up your Mass, and Muscle Milk LIGHT......anyone use them? Gains? Lean? Dry?
I'm worried about the sodium content #1, and the ingredients #2...along with results...
Would just oats and whey be the BEST alternative for a shake pw IF YOU couldn't get a meal in for 1.5-2.5 hours?
Usually, my post-workout shake consists of a third or fourth serving of whatever protein supplement I've been using all day.
When I was using weight-gainers, that post-workout shake was a third serving of either Mega Mass 2000 or N-Large2. Over the past couple of years, I've used RTDs (Isopure, ABB's Pure Pro or Blue Thunder).
However, over the last several months, my post-workout shake has consisted of the following:
- Two scoops of CELL-TECH Hardcore (For some reason, the big jugs only come in Fruit Punch).
- Two scoops of Anator P-70 (Orange Cooler, not Berry Blast; that tastes almost as bad as powdered GAKIC did).
- Two scoops Whey Protein (ON Classic Whey or ON 100% Whey Gold Standard).
It works well for me. But, in the grand scheme of things, getting some type of protein shake in your system within 30-45 minutes after training helps a great deal, when it comes to recovery. I didn't use pure whey all the time, when I was younger, because I couldn't afford it (as evident by my use of Mega Mass). In fact, when I switched gainers, I initially started using the original N-Large, the protein base of which was milk and egg. When Prolab changed its formula to N-Large2 10 years ago, the protein was switched to whey.
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Why are you worried about the sodium content?
Go to somewhere like www.trueprotein.com or www.proteinfactory.com & just create your own formula. That's what I usually do. Mine pretty much always look like the following:
60% Carbs (Rice & Maltodex)
40% Protein (Whey isolate & maybe a little bit of egg white)
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Went to buy my cyto and spoke with the dude working at the nut. store. Tall kid, thin, etc. Played dumb and asked him his opinion "Cyto is by far my favorite!" How were your gains? Good, although you will alway gain chub using a mass shake, no matter what you do (as he grabs a roll from his waste).....well, what flavor? Always vanialla, I tried choc mint (which i bought over the net, not hear yet) and he said it was waaayyy too strong, had to mix it with vanilla......now that sounds good! But, i made no purchase......maybe this weekend if mine doesnt come in today.....thoughts?
I had to laugh!
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get yourself some BCAA from MRM and take 5 grams before and after you train and some creatine with grape juice afterwards and then eat solid food 10-15 minutes later, no need for a whey protein shake, total waste.
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no need for a whey protein shake, total waste.
I understand your point & I've tried it several ways (i.e. shake, BCAA's, solid food) but I haven't noticed a difference. But then again that's just me & I personally like to have a shake because it's easier.
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get yourself some BCAA from MRM and take 5 grams before and after you train and some creatine with grape juice afterwards and then eat solid food 10-15 minutes later, no need for a whey protein shake, total waste.
I;ve been sipping on bcaas while I train for the past month now, more for recovery....working well.
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YEE HAW!!! Got my cytogainer and muscle milk in the mail today.....tomorrow starts day 1....now I'm pumped!
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I understand your point & I've tried it several ways (i.e. shake, BCAA's, solid food) but I haven't noticed a difference. But then again that's just me & I personally like to have a shake because it's easier.
yeah it's no big deal, whey protein is just food anyway, i just like to eat solid food soon after i train and i love the BCAA product from MRM, the great thing about it is that you can take it with meals if you want to and it doesn't interfere with digestion at all.
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yeah it's no big deal, whey protein is just food anyway, i just like to eat solid food soon after i train and i love the BCAA product from MRM, the great thing about it is that you can take it with meals if you want to and it doesn't interfere with digestion at all.
Agree. This one good product.
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i've been reading about how its good to have dextrose and maltodextrin in the post workout shake.
its supposed to bump insulin and is very quickly absorbed.
BCAA is sorta the same thing i think.
im hoping to see some good concoctions here. I'm looking to join a gym and need to get my diet in proper order.
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how bout my cyto? good product?
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how bout my cyto? good product?
ive used the cytogainer before and was happy with the product. taste was good and mixes easily in a shaker.
it has a good amount of maltodextrin. when i used it did add some dextrose powder to the mix.
you could also mix in about 8ounces of grape juice.
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How were your gains from cyto? Lean? Don't really want the excess water retention or fat gain if there IS anything associated with it.....then I'd be better off with just oats and whey.....but I just bought a tub, you would reccommend?
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- Two scoops of CELL-TECH Hardcore (For some reason, the big jugs only come in Fruit Punch).
- Two scoops of Anator P-70 (Orange Cooler, not Berry Blast; that tastes almost as bad as powdered GAKIC did).
- Two scoops Whey Protein (ON Classic Whey or ON 100% Whey Gold Standard).
Quick question (not a knock) but how much does all that cost per serving?
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Who knows.....I am interested in results....look it up.
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Who knows.....I am interested in results....look it up.
1. Question directed at MCway
2. If you were interested in results you would actually be getting somewhere instead of posting the same babbling questions on every board, you've even infiltrated the G & O board.
3. Good luck
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How were your gains from cyto? Lean? Don't really want the excess water retention or fat gain if there IS anything associated with it.....then I'd be better off with just oats and whey.....but I just bought a tub, you would reccommend?
go with the cyto not the oats ....your body needs those fast acting carbs pwo.
i usually go with a 2:1 carb to protein shake.... 100g of maltodextrin/dextrose and 50g of whey isolate or hydrolized whey.
i think the cyto is about 75g malto per serving.
oats would be a better choice as a pre workout meal.
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lean gains bro? water retention? fat? bloat? should I start with two scoops?
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lean gains bro? water retention? fat? bloat? should I start with two scoops?
You're supposed to be bulking. Why in the hell are you worried about water retention & gaining a little fat?
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Quick question (not a knock) but how much does all that cost per serving?
Haven't crunched the numbers. I'd guess that it's somewhere between $5 and $7 per serving.
I got the Anator and CELL-TECH Hardcore, a couple of months ago, when GNC had the "Buy one; get one 50% off" promotion. That, plus my Gold Card, let me get those items at a fairly good price.
The two bottles of Anator cost about $90 (after all the discounts).
The two jugs of CELL-TECH Hardcore were also about $90; also two months' worth (if I load the first week with each jug; if I don't, the jugs last a bit longer).
As for the protein powder, A 5-lb. jug of ON Classic Whey will run about $24; The 100% Whey Gold Standard is around $30; but, I can occasionally get a 5-lb jug for $20.
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Haven't crunched the numbers. I'd guess that it's somewhere between $5 and $7 per serving.
I got the Anator and CELL-TECH Hardcore, a couple of months ago, when GNC had the "Buy one; get one 50% off" promotion. That, plus my Gold Card, let me get those items at a fairly good price.
The two bottles of Anator cost about $90 (after all the discounts).
The two jugs of CELL-TECH Hardcore were also about $90; also two months' worth (if I load the first week with each jug; if I don't, the jugs last a bit longer).
As for the protein powder, A 5-lb. jug of ON Classic Whey will run about $24; The 100% Whey Gold Standard is around $30; but, I can occasionally get a 5-lb jug for $20.
Fair enough...
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get yourself some BCAA from MRM and take 5 grams before and after you train and some creatine with grape juice afterwards and then eat solid food 10-15 minutes later, no need for a whey protein shake, total waste.
come on sqaud, there are a plethora of studies showing that a whey/carb shake post-workout most-definitely is beneficial. Having a solid post-workout meal is required, but a post-workout shake is just iciing on the cake.
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Haven't crunched the numbers. I'd guess that it's somewhere between $5 and $7 per serving.
I got the Anator and CELL-TECH Hardcore, a couple of months ago, when GNC had the "Buy one; get one 50% off" promotion. That, plus my Gold Card, let me get those items at a fairly good price.
The two bottles of Anator cost about $90 (after all the discounts).
The two jugs of CELL-TECH Hardcore were also about $90; also two months' worth (if I load the first week with each jug; if I don't, the jugs last a bit longer).
As for the protein powder, A 5-lb. jug of ON Classic Whey will run about $24; The 100% Whey Gold Standard is around $30; but, I can occasionally get a 5-lb jug for $20.
$5-7 bucks a day? that seems like such a waste of money. what's wrong with creatine monohydrate and some dextrose powder?
i'll admit i buy some overpriced stuff when it's 70-80% marked down and worth it to me, but i couldn't imagine spending 5 bucks a day on a postworkout shake......
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what is wrong with cyto??
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what is wrong with cyto??
nothing is really wrong with cyto...
but if you are concerened about price it would be more cost effective to just buy some whey then add you own malto/dextrose, creatine, ect.
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nothing is really wrong with cyto...
but if you are concerened about price it would be more cost effective to just buy some whey then add you own malto/dextrose, creatine, ect.
Agree. It takes me but 30 secs to put mine together.
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come on sqaud, there are a plethora of studies showing that a whey/carb shake post-workout most-definitely is beneficial. Having a solid post-workout meal is required, but a post-workout shake is just iciing on the cake.
i agree dude i just do it a little bit differently than you, instead of the whey shake i use some BCAA's and a tablespoon of creatine with some grape juice then i eat a solid meal 15 minutes later, in fact i take the solid meal with me in my truck.
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$5-7 bucks a day? that seems like such a waste of money. what's wrong with creatine monohydrate and some dextrose powder?
i'll admit i buy some overpriced stuff when it's 70-80% marked down and worth it to me, but i couldn't imagine spending 5 bucks a day on a postworkout shake......
That's not really spend on "postworkout" shake, per se As I said before, my post-workout shake is the third or fourth serving of the protein supplement I've been using all day.
In this case, it's whey protein powder (ON Classic Whey), replacing a weight-gainer. I've been using CELL-TECH for over two years; so that's not really a new thing. In the past, I would just take CELL-TECH and consume the whey about 20 minutes later.
The only addition to this routine is Anator-P70. And, for convenience's sake, I just mix all three together.
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So money aside, Cyto is top notch for lean gains? Cutting or bulking?
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So money aside, Cyto is top notch for lean gains? Cutting or bulking?
I don't know. I've never used the stuff.
My point was that whatever protein supplement you currently favor could be (and likely should be) used as a post-workout shake. Ten years ago, I took three 10-oz. (mixed with water) servings of Mega Mass 2000 per day, with the third serving of the day as my post-workout shake. When I switched to N-Large (later N-Large2), serving #3 of that brand became my potion, after hitting the weights.
Now, it's protein powder, mixed with CELL-TECH (and most recently, Anator P-70).
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So money aside, Cyto is top notch for lean gains? Cutting or bulking?
you should go see this guy named jack. he's got these magic beans. i'm sure they're the answer to all your quick fix problems. ::)
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my current post workout shake includes...
350 ml skim milk
pint of blueberries
fistfull of spinache
2 scoops of whey powder
how good or bad is that?
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my current post workout shake includes...
350 ml skim milk
pint of blueberries
fistfull of spinache
2 scoops of whey powder
how good or bad is that?
Don't hijack Lugar's thread, he's on medication and can become very irritable.
And your shake sounds delicious and very calorie-tastic.
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my current post workout shake includes...
350 ml skim milk
pint of blueberries
fistfull of spinache
2 scoops of whey powder
how good or bad is that?
Good!? It's like a retard was rummaging through the kitchen and threw stuff in a blender. Are you serious?
/well, the spinach, anyway
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I know it's a better product than Nlarge which has more fat and more sigar.......I just want to know what type of gains were made, and if they were clean? Watery? Should I just start with 2 scoops
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I know it's a better product than Nlarge which has more fat and more sigar.......I just want to know what type of gains were made, and if they were clean? Watery? Should I just start with 2 scoops
"clean" gains
"watery" gains
Where the fuck do you get these terms?
I'll make it simple Lugar so you never ask this question again: When you gain, you gain muscle and fat. How much of each and in what proportion has very little to do with the 5 postworkout shakes you will be taking a week as opposed to the 10 hours spent in the gym and 30 meals you should be eating that week, that's what you should focus on.
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Mike makes a good point. Muscle gain generally comes with some fat gain. The following is also almost always true: Fat loss generally includes some muscle loss.
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I know it's a better product than Nlarge which has more fat and more sigar.......I just want to know what type of gains were made, and if they were clean? Watery? Should I just start with 2 scoops
^ i agree with that also... lugar i dont really understand why you are so concerned about the possiblility of gaining a little bodyfat or holding too much water....i mean i could see if you were a few weeks out from a show but you have said you are trying to pack on some muscle.
as for the cyto, i think you have a good product...i dont remember the exact numbers but i think 2 scoops would give you around 25g or whey and 40g malto...you could start with 2 to get used to the product than work you way up to the recommended 4.
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lol, yeah I was serious.
I'm a bit bewlidered with all this nutrition stuff. That post workout shake is more of a meal replacement I suppose. It's all healthy ingredients so i figured I was doing ok.
I'm trying ot put together a good nutritional routine so that when I join a gym I can maximize myself. I'm just an ordinary joe who wants to be healthy and fit.
Good!? It's like a retard was rummaging through the kitchen and threw stuff in a blender. Are you serious?
/well, the spinach, anyway
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When i say bloated and watery, I'm not saying that I am afraid to gain a little fat, but I'd much rather it come from my 1-2 cheat days a week, than my pw formula where I could use dext and whey and/or quick oats and stay dry......see what I'm saying, i want to take it (bought 2 bottles, havent cracked the seal 0 it's been a week......) but I want it to be IDEAL! If nothing else, pw nutrition is very important....
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lol, yeah I was serious.
I'm a bit bewlidered with all this nutrition stuff. That post workout shake is more of a meal replacement I suppose. It's all healthy ingredients so i figured I was doing ok.
I'm trying ot put together a good nutritional routine so that when I join a gym I can maximize myself. I'm just an ordinary joe who wants to be healthy and fit.
LOL. I was just fcuking with ya. What you need are quick-acting carbs and protein; some bcaa's and, maybe some glutamine if you feel that it works. What you don't want immediately after is stuff like spinach that takes a long time to process/breakdown. Leave that for a proper meal 45 mins/1 hr after your workout.
/sorry for the retard comment, you hoser. ;)
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Make a blend with waxy maize, dextrose, whey, BCAAs and creatine. You could buy them bulk and figure out a flavor scheme that you like or get it made on a custome site.
Lately I've been drinking 4 scoops (1 1/3 serving) of Torrent postworkout. From a taste + value + formula perspective it is tough to beat, but obviously I'm biased. Peace, G
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When i say bloated and watery, I'm not saying that I am afraid to gain a little fat, but I'd much rather it come from my 1-2 cheat days a week, than my pw formula where I could use dext and whey and/or quick oats and stay dry......see what I'm saying, i want to take it (bought 2 bottles, havent cracked the seal 0 it's been a week......) but I want it to be IDEAL! If nothing else, pw nutrition is very important....
yes but you are not going to gain fat as a result of your pwo shake... your body needs those simple carbs after training not oats... unwanted fat gains may come as a result of how the rest of your diet looks ... just use the cyto or your own whey, dextrose/malto ... like u just said, pwo nutrition is very important.
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why did u nix cyto??
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why did u nix cyto??
well i was using it because im friends with the owner of one of the gyms i go to and he gave it to me to try out.
i did like it and think its a good pwo shake.
like i said earlier its just more cost effective to purchase the whey from a place like protein factory then mix in your own malto,dextrose,ect.
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Hey guys. This is the shake I've been blending post workout, just wondering if it is covering all my bases or not. Any feedback would be great :).
1 cup milk
1 scoop fast absorbing Protein Powder ( i have a few i choose from)
5g of glutamine
1 teaspoon of flaxseed oil
1 banana
1 multivitamin tablet
I normally have it about 15-20min after my workout then about an hour or so after that i have some tuna or chicken breast. Any suggestions etc?
Cheers in advance :)
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multivit is not necessary, also lose the flaxseed. You need carbs.
PWO, you only need fast carbs, and a lot of it and fast protein. Whey + glutamine is good.
then have a full meal an hour after that, you can have the flaxseed besides that.
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Thanks Donkey, so is the Banana not enough? I can throw in a couple of home made Protein cookies that i make with the shake to up the carbs! I will have the Flaxseed and Multi later on then. Thanks again mate :).
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Thanks Donkey, so is the Banana not enough? I can throw in a couple of home made Protein cookies that i make with the shake to up the carbs! I will have the Flaxseed and Multi later on then. Thanks again mate :).
banana only has fructose sugar, that will not cause an insulin spike. switch to dextrose or maltose.
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Ahhh Ok i am going to do some more reading to find other things i can throw in the shake or add to my cookie mix to fill that gap, thanks again :).
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I've been using 50g dextrose (from a brew-your-own-beer shop) with "Cell Swell Matrix" ::) and 6g whey (musashi) pwo, then a meal 30-45 mins later. Don't know if it's best, but that's what I'm doin' at the moment. :-\
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I've been using 50g dextrose (from a brew-your-own-beer shop)
Thats an interesting idea, cheers 8).
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Staminade at Woolies is dextrose too, if you want the flavoured kind. It's wicked expensive by comparison tho mate. :)
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do you need protein immediately postworkout, or just simple carbs?
I'm talking about right after the gym, not the postworkout meal.
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http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~jjhulmi/Manninen71.pdf
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do you need protein immediately postworkout, or just simple carbs?
I'm talking about right after the gym, not the postworkout meal.
Yes. Not a megadose of protein (e.g. 50g), less than 20g protein and double that with equal parts dextrose and maltodextrin. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
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Thats an interesting idea, cheers 8).
honour go to a home brewery place like he said. that stuff is dirt cheap there. are you taking creatine?
i use 3-5 grams of creatine
40-50 grams of dextrose
and 1 scoop of whey isolate
it seems to work pretty good.
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honour go to a home brewery place like he said. that stuff is dirt cheap there. are you taking creatine?
i use 3-5 grams of creatine
40-50 grams of dextrose
and 1 scoop of whey isolate
it seems to work pretty good.
No I'm not taking any creatine at the moment, the last time i had it i just didn't really feel it, perhaps i wasn't having enough or taking it correctly though :-[.
So by the sounds of it I should I be looking at about 40g of dextrose powder. No home brewery places around where i live that i know of but I'm going to head out tomorrow and have a good look.
I feel like i have been putting on quite a bit of muscle over the last month or so, ( I'll throw a comparason pic up in another month or so) and have been busting a nut in the gym. I'm just really concerned I may be short changing myself post workout as i tend to be incredibly hungry till i have a full meal like an hour or so later.
I've been doing a bit of reading to get up to speed on this stuff, thanks again for the advice guys :).
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No I'm not taking any creatine at the moment, the last time i had it i just didn't really feel it, perhaps i wasn't having enough or taking it correctly though :-[.
So by the sounds of it I should I be looking at about 40g of dextrose powder. No home brewery places around where i live that i know of but I'm going to head out tomorrow and have a good look.
I feel like i have been putting on quite a bit of muscle over the last month or so, ( I'll throw a comparason pic up in another month or so) and have been busting a nut in the gym. I'm just really concerned I may be short changing myself post workout as i tend to be incredibly hungry till i have a full meal like an hour or so later.
I've been doing a bit of reading to get up to speed on this stuff, thanks again for the advice guys :).
Dextrose is also corn sugar. Maybe easier to find under that moniker.
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honour go to a home brewery place like he said. that stuff is dirt cheap there.
I got a bag with 55 lbs of dextrose for approx $40 a few weeks ago.
And Europe is generally a little more expensive than USA.
That bag should last me a year or so. ;D
-Hedge
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I got a bag with 55 lbs of dextrose for approx $40 a few weeks ago.
Ironically, Hedge had to get one of his "weightlifter" friends to carry it to the car for him. ;D
I buy 'em in 1 kilo bags, a couple at a time. Too many bugs 'n such in Aus. They might call it "brewing sugar" too.
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do you need protein immediately postworkout, or just simple carbs?
I'm talking about right after the gym, not the postworkout meal.
Whey and Pure Vitargo within 15 min. of lifting.
Eat protein and carb meal an hour after the shake.
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So by the sounds of it I should I be looking at about 40g of dextrose powder. No home brewery places around where i live that i know of but I'm going to head out tomorrow and have a good look.
Turns out they sell it in Woolworths too, next to the home brew stuff (you're in Aus, I think?)
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Turns out they sell it in Woolworths too, next to the home brew stuff (you're in Aus, I think?)
Yeah in Melbourne mate. Found some today at K-mart, missus told me she remembered they had home brewery stuff there and she was right :). Thanks for all the help here guys it's much appreciated. Good to have somewhere that i can ask my rookie questions ;D.
Cheers again all :).
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currently 50 g dextrose
20 g maltodex
5 g creatine
5 g bcaas (probably overkill)
40 g on whey
gonna drop the malo/ dex and try some waxy maize next week.
I usually start sipping my shake about 20 mins before i'm done. I finish it on the way home and then eat a solid meal 30-45 minutes later.
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70g WMS
40g high grade hydrolyzed whey protein
5g leucine
5g creatine mono
my mix from tp.com , best for pre during post workout
________________________ ________________________ ________________________ _______________
TRUEPROTEIN.COM 5% DISCOUNT CODE > MOU110
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70g WMS
40g high grade hydrolyzed whey protein
5g leucine
5g creatine mono
my mix from tp.com , best for pre during post workout
________________________ ________________________ ________________________ _______________
TRUEPROTEIN.COM 5% DISCOUNT CODE > MOU110
My post workout mix from tp is the following:
25% BCAA's
25% WMS
50% Dextrose
So far I'm not too impressed with the WMS - leaves a funny after taste but it does mix well.
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My post workout mix from tp is the following:
25% BCAA's
25% WMS
50% Dextrose
So far I'm not too impressed with the WMS - leaves a funny after taste but it does mix well.
I read on sarcev site that is no good to mix WMS and dextrose or maltodextrine
and amount you take after workout of you combination is ?
________________________ ________________________ ________________________ _______________
TRUEPROTEIN.COM 5% DISCOUNT CODE > MOU110
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I read on sarcev site that is no good to mix WMS and dextrose or maltodextrine
and amount you take after workout of you combination is ?
________________________ ________________________ ________________________ _______________
TRUEPROTEIN.COM 5% DISCOUNT CODE > MOU110
Half a cup PWO. I just tried it to experiment & don't think I'll be trying it again.
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I read on sarcev site that is no good to mix WMS and dextrose or maltodextrine
Why?
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Why?
Rim-What'z WMS?
PWO drink? 40gr of extra whey in 1/2 a MRP + a yogurt, banana if it grabs you. BCAA if the wallets fat.
Nothing wrong w/ up to 90gr total of fast protine drank asap.
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Why?
read this thread
http://milossarcev.com/board/index.php?topic=6849.0
________________________ ________________________ ________________________ _______________
TRUEPROTEIN.COM 5% DISCOUNT CODE > MOU110
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Rim-What'z WMS?
PWO drink? 40gr of extra whey in 1/2 a MRP + a yogurt, banana if it grabs you. BCAA if the wallets fat.
Nothing wrong w/ up to 90gr total of fast protine drank asap.
Waxy Maize Starch = WMS
________________________ ________________________ ________________________ _______________
TRUEPROTEIN.COM 5% DISCOUNT CODE > MOU110
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read this thread
http://milossarcev.com/board/index.php?topic=6849.0
________________________ ________________________ ________________________ _______________
TRUEPROTEIN.COM 5% DISCOUNT CODE > MOU110
I I would but it says the topic is off limits. Thanks anyway.
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I I would but it says the topic is off limits. Thanks anyway.
here it is :
It has been standard practice for many years for serious athletes to consume a high-carbohydrate meal following intense exercise. As time has gone on, this post-exercise meal has been scrutinized and analyzed to make sure that the correct type of carbohydrates are eaten to maximize the replacement of glycogen lost during exercise.
Following exercise-induced depletion of glycogen stores, levels of the enzyme glycogen synthetase, become elevated. This very important metabolic enzyme enables the body to replace lost muscle and liver glycogen. Typical rates of glycogen re-synthesis after short term, high-intensity exercise (i.e. weightlifting) are much higher than glycogen re-synthesis rates following prolonged, lower intensity exercise. This is largely due to the fact that fast twitch muscle fibers, which are the predominantly used during short term, high intensity, exercise; have a higher level of glycogen synthetase activity than slow-twitch fibers. (4) What this means is that the body has a greater need (and a greater ability) to restore depleted glycogen stores following short term, high intensity training.
Studies show that delaying the ingestion of a carbohydrate supplement post-exercise results in a reduced rate of muscle glycogen storage. (3) Because of this fact, it’s common to ingest a sugary carbohydrate source following exercise. The Glycemic Index (GI) gives a number to carbohydrates based on how quickly they enter the blood stream. The higher the GI, the quicker it will enter the bloodstream and raise insulin levels. The highest GI food is glucose, with a score of 100. One particular form of glucose (D-glucose, aka Dextrose) quickly became the post-workout carbohydrate of choice based on the speed with which it enters the bloodstream and raises insulin levels. It’s important to understand that not all sugars are created equal. For example, fructose (or fruit sugar) rapidly restores liver glycogen levels at the expense of muscle glycogen stores. The bottom line is that it’s important to ingest quick-acting carbohydrates to begin the repair and rebuilding process.
What if there was a way to improve this practice?
Recently, a new player has emerged in the post-workout carbohydrate war: High molecular weight carbohydrates. High molecular weight carbohydrates (HMW) have shown great promise in providing a wide range of post-workout benefits.
The words most often thrown around when talking about HMW carbohydrates are “gastric emptying” and “osmolality.” These terms essentially go hand in hand with each other. Osmolality, often confused with osmolarity, affects the transport of water and other solutes over the cell membranes. (10) Osmolality is related to the specific osmolality of the blood, which is 280-303 mOsm/kg in humans. A solute that has the same osmolality of blood is said to be isotonic while a solute that has a lower osmolality than blood is hypotonic. The more hypotonic a solution is, the quicker it passes through the stomach into the small intestine where the bulk of nutrient uptake occurs. (11) A very low osmolality means the solution will get to your muscles with great speed and efficiency.
The higher the molecular weight of a carbohydrate, the lower its osmolality. The lower the molecular weight of a carbohydrate, the higher its osmolality. So, a carbohydrate’s molecular weight varies inversely to its osmolality. Knowing this, you can begin to appreciate the difference between HMW carbohydrates and dextrose. The molecular weight of the typical HMW carbohydrate that is marketed today has a molecular weight of 500,000-700,000; whereas, the molecular weight of dextrose is approximately 180. (11) This statistic helps quantify the difference between the two carbohydrate sources. The osmolality of a this particular HMW carbohydrate is 11 mOsm/kg in a 5% solution, which is considerably lower than the osmolality of blood at 300 mOsm/kg. With an osmolality that low, the HMW carbohydrate is extremely hypotonic, and we know that the more hypotonic a solution is, the quicker it passes through the stomach into the small intestine.(11) This means that in the world of carbohydrates, the HMW carbohydrate is a Ferrari Enzo, and dextrose is your mother’s Buick Skylark.
In fact, one popular HMW carbohydrate drink has been shown to pass through the stomach 80% faster than dextrose, allowing restoration of glycogen 70% faster than any other carbohydrate. (13)
How would you like to like to start rebuilding muscle 70% sooner than you already are after a workout?
One particular study showed that the mean glycogen synthesis rate was significantly higher for a HMW carbohydrate drink compared to a glucose drink for 2 whole hours after ingestion. The scientists in the study concluded that “the osmolality of the carbohydrate drink may influence the rate of re-synthesis of glycogen in muscle after its depletion by exercise.”(6) In essence, the scientists are saying that HMW carbohydrate will get to your muscles significantly faster than whatever carbohydrate you’re currently using.”
Another study that observed glycogen synthesis rates in rats following starvation showed that HMW glycogen was initially synthesized at a faster rate than low molecular weight glycogen. (Cool However, blood sugar and insulin levels were not statistically different between the HMW carbohydrate and the glucose solution. What this means is that espite being a complex carbohydrate, the HMW carbohydrate still raised insulin levels to about the same level as dextrose. We’re dealing with a complex carbohydrate that powers through the stomach, causing no bloating, and reaches the blood stream as fast as dextrose; yet, it restores glycogen 70% faster.
Does it sound too good to be true? It gets better.
The osmolality of HMW carbohydrates can potentially speed up the rate of glycogen synthesis post-workout, as well as increase the uptake of whatever vital nutrients are added to the HMW carbohydrate drink. That’s right, all the “stuff” you’ve been ingesting after your workout, in the hopes of getting it to the muscle as quickly as possible, can be sucked up right along with the HMW carbohydrate, faster than ever before. The only problem is that amino-based nutrients such as whey protein, amino acids, and creatine all have a much lower molecular weight than the HMW carbohydrate; therefore, when adding other nutrients into the drink mix, you must consider the effect they will have on the total molecular weight of the solution. In theory, too much protein, creatine, and other nutrients will reduce the effectiveness—specifically the speed--of the HMW drink.
For this very reason, it’s my belief that added amino-based nutrients should be kept to a minimum during ingestion of a HMW carbohydrate drink. My post workout recommendation for a 200 lb bodybuilder would be 75g of a HMW carbohydrate mixed with 5g creatine, 8g L-leucine, and 5-10g of BCAA’s.
This meal should be followed, approximately 15-30 minutes later, with a meal containing protein and complex carbohydrates; preferably a fast-digesting liquid protein such as a whey isolate, and some complex carbohydrates.
If you understand the composition of muscle, you’ll learn that there’s much more to it than just contractile tissue. Don’t forget the water, stored glycogen, minerals, blood vessels, and capillaries. By employing HMW carbohydrate powders, carbohydrate reserves can be quickly replenished, along with water and any other cell volumizing nutrients you consume along with it. Remember, faster glycogen restoration decreases catabolism and increases the rate of protein synthesis. And as an additional cosmetic benefit, the extra glycogen and water will create full, round-bellied, muscles that will be the envy of all your bodybuilding friends!
My concern with adding the whey protein is how the molecular weight of the protein is going to effect the molecular weight of whole shake.
Aminos are going to have a lower molecular weight than the HMW carb. And the main benefit of the HMW carb is it's molecular weight, and the osmolality that comes with that.
One benefit of hte low osmolality, is that it will "pull" the added nutrients through the gut, into the small intestine for quicker absorption. But, I don't know if there is a limit to how much can be added to the mix.
In my own experiences on monitoring blood glucose, and sensation of "stomach fullness," I've found that when I go over about 33% of the total calories of the drink being from sources other than the HMW carb, I don't feel my stomach empty as quickly, and there seems to be a slower rise in blood glucose. So, this makes me feel that the mix isn't passing through the stomach as quickly.
I don't know if this is true, and future studies may prove it to be false, but it's something I've thought about.
Another concern is that the % of ingredient per solution has a role in osmolality. A 5% solution of a HMW carb has an osmolality of about 11.....which compared to blood at around 280-300 is VERY low, and VERY good for rapid utilization. But, as the solution changes to a higher %, the osmolality increases.
This change in osmolality is MUCH smaller with the HMW carb than other high GI carbs, but it is still there. And when you add ingredients to a solution, you increase the % fo the solution. So, you would have to continue adding an increased amount of water to keep the osmolality the same.
This is one of the reasons it's beneficial to add plenty of water to the HMW carb.
I prefer waxy maize from trueprotein.com
When they were coming out with their WM product, they tried many different products. I don't know exactly how many they went through, but I personally experimented with W11, W13, and other numbers lower. I think they tried as many as 20 different versions.
Some worked okay, some worked very well, but were unpalatable. They finally agreed on the current product as it worked the best, and the taste is pretty good, especially when mixed with crystal light.
I never like telling someone that their protocol is wrong, as we all have to find what works best for us.
My problem with the Endura, is I remember seeing an osmolality rating on it in the high 200's, I believe. I think it may even be near 300. With Blood having an osmolality of 300, that means the Endura has no real concentration gradient to pass through the stomach. This means it has the potential to spend extra time there, pulling water with it, also into the stomach, which could cause bloating.
You may or may not be experiencing this. But, that is how I would find fault with that product.
Maltodextrin is a fine product, and was used for many years, with great success.
I don't know the osmolality of that, but I believe that Dextrose has an osmolality of 180, which is pretty high, and one of the reasons people often complaing of bloating with dextrose, especially combined with creatine.
Maltodextin is essentially bonds of dextrose (I think around 5-20 bonds in length?) bound by weak hydrogen bonds. So, I would imagine the osmolality of malto is similar to dextrose.
Also, something to remember is that with a GI as high as dextrose or maltodextin, you can actually get an insulin spike too early when using creatine. As the nutrients won't pass through the gut very quickly, the dextrose that does pass through, and is absorbed can cause an insulin spike before the creatine has reached the point of absorption, which isn't want we want.
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TRUEPROTEIN.COM 5% DISCOUNT CODE > MOU110
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here it is :
It has been standard practice for many years for serious athletes to consume a high-carbohydrate meal following intense exercise. As time has gone on, this post-exercise meal has been scrutinized and analyzed to make sure that the correct type of carbohydrates are eaten to maximize the replacement of glycogen lost during exercise.
Following exercise-induced depletion of glycogen stores, levels of the enzyme glycogen synthetase, become elevated. This very important metabolic enzyme enables the body to replace lost muscle and liver glycogen. Typical rates of glycogen re-synthesis after short term, high-intensity exercise (i.e. weightlifting) are much higher than glycogen re-synthesis rates following prolonged, lower intensity exercise. This is largely due to the fact that fast twitch muscle fibers, which are the predominantly used during short term, high intensity, exercise; have a higher level of glycogen synthetase activity than slow-twitch fibers. (4) What this means is that the body has a greater need (and a greater ability) to restore depleted glycogen stores following short term, high intensity training.
Studies show that delaying the ingestion of a carbohydrate supplement post-exercise results in a reduced rate of muscle glycogen storage. (3) Because of this fact, it’s common to ingest a sugary carbohydrate source following exercise. The Glycemic Index (GI) gives a number to carbohydrates based on how quickly they enter the blood stream. The higher the GI, the quicker it will enter the bloodstream and raise insulin levels. The highest GI food is glucose, with a score of 100. One particular form of glucose (D-glucose, aka Dextrose) quickly became the post-workout carbohydrate of choice based on the speed with which it enters the bloodstream and raises insulin levels. It’s important to understand that not all sugars are created equal. For example, fructose (or fruit sugar) rapidly restores liver glycogen levels at the expense of muscle glycogen stores. The bottom line is that it’s important to ingest quick-acting carbohydrates to begin the repair and rebuilding process.
What if there was a way to improve this practice?
Recently, a new player has emerged in the post-workout carbohydrate war: High molecular weight carbohydrates. High molecular weight carbohydrates (HMW) have shown great promise in providing a wide range of post-workout benefits.
The words most often thrown around when talking about HMW carbohydrates are “gastric emptying” and “osmolality.” These terms essentially go hand in hand with each other. Osmolality, often confused with osmolarity, affects the transport of water and other solutes over the cell membranes. (10) Osmolality is related to the specific osmolality of the blood, which is 280-303 mOsm/kg in humans. A solute that has the same osmolality of blood is said to be isotonic while a solute that has a lower osmolality than blood is hypotonic. The more hypotonic a solution is, the quicker it passes through the stomach into the small intestine where the bulk of nutrient uptake occurs. (11) A very low osmolality means the solution will get to your muscles with great speed and efficiency.
The higher the molecular weight of a carbohydrate, the lower its osmolality. The lower the molecular weight of a carbohydrate, the higher its osmolality. So, a carbohydrate’s molecular weight varies inversely to its osmolality. Knowing this, you can begin to appreciate the difference between HMW carbohydrates and dextrose. The molecular weight of the typical HMW carbohydrate that is marketed today has a molecular weight of 500,000-700,000; whereas, the molecular weight of dextrose is approximately 180. (11) This statistic helps quantify the difference between the two carbohydrate sources. The osmolality of a this particular HMW carbohydrate is 11 mOsm/kg in a 5% solution, which is considerably lower than the osmolality of blood at 300 mOsm/kg. With an osmolality that low, the HMW carbohydrate is extremely hypotonic, and we know that the more hypotonic a solution is, the quicker it passes through the stomach into the small intestine.(11) This means that in the world of carbohydrates, the HMW carbohydrate is a Ferrari Enzo, and dextrose is your mother’s Buick Skylark.
In fact, one popular HMW carbohydrate drink has been shown to pass through the stomach 80% faster than dextrose, allowing restoration of glycogen 70% faster than any other carbohydrate. (13)
How would you like to like to start rebuilding muscle 70% sooner than you already are after a workout?
One particular study showed that the mean glycogen synthesis rate was significantly higher for a HMW carbohydrate drink compared to a glucose drink for 2 whole hours after ingestion. The scientists in the study concluded that “the osmolality of the carbohydrate drink may influence the rate of re-synthesis of glycogen in muscle after its depletion by exercise.”(6) In essence, the scientists are saying that HMW carbohydrate will get to your muscles significantly faster than whatever carbohydrate you’re currently using.”
Another study that observed glycogen synthesis rates in rats following starvation showed that HMW glycogen was initially synthesized at a faster rate than low molecular weight glycogen. (Cool However, blood sugar and insulin levels were not statistically different between the HMW carbohydrate and the glucose solution. What this means is that espite being a complex carbohydrate, the HMW carbohydrate still raised insulin levels to about the same level as dextrose. We’re dealing with a complex carbohydrate that powers through the stomach, causing no bloating, and reaches the blood stream as fast as dextrose; yet, it restores glycogen 70% faster.
Does it sound too good to be true? It gets better.
The osmolality of HMW carbohydrates can potentially speed up the rate of glycogen synthesis post-workout, as well as increase the uptake of whatever vital nutrients are added to the HMW carbohydrate drink. That’s right, all the “stuff” you’ve been ingesting after your workout, in the hopes of getting it to the muscle as quickly as possible, can be sucked up right along with the HMW carbohydrate, faster than ever before. The only problem is that amino-based nutrients such as whey protein, amino acids, and creatine all have a much lower molecular weight than the HMW carbohydrate; therefore, when adding other nutrients into the drink mix, you must consider the effect they will have on the total molecular weight of the solution. In theory, too much protein, creatine, and other nutrients will reduce the effectiveness—specifically the speed--of the HMW drink.
For this very reason, it’s my belief that added amino-based nutrients should be kept to a minimum during ingestion of a HMW carbohydrate drink. My post workout recommendation for a 200 lb bodybuilder would be 75g of a HMW carbohydrate mixed with 5g creatine, 8g L-leucine, and 5-10g of BCAA’s.
This meal should be followed, approximately 15-30 minutes later, with a meal containing protein and complex carbohydrates; preferably a fast-digesting liquid protein such as a whey isolate, and some complex carbohydrates.
If you understand the composition of muscle, you’ll learn that there’s much more to it than just contractile tissue. Don’t forget the water, stored glycogen, minerals, blood vessels, and capillaries. By employing HMW carbohydrate powders, carbohydrate reserves can be quickly replenished, along with water and any other cell volumizing nutrients you consume along with it. Remember, faster glycogen restoration decreases catabolism and increases the rate of protein synthesis. And as an additional cosmetic benefit, the extra glycogen and water will create full, round-bellied, muscles that will be the envy of all your bodybuilding friends!
My concern with adding the whey protein is how the molecular weight of the protein is going to effect the molecular weight of whole shake.
Aminos are going to have a lower molecular weight than the HMW carb. And the main benefit of the HMW carb is it's molecular weight, and the osmolality that comes with that.
One benefit of hte low osmolality, is that it will "pull" the added nutrients through the gut, into the small intestine for quicker absorption. But, I don't know if there is a limit to how much can be added to the mix.
In my own experiences on monitoring blood glucose, and sensation of "stomach fullness," I've found that when I go over about 33% of the total calories of the drink being from sources other than the HMW carb, I don't feel my stomach empty as quickly, and there seems to be a slower rise in blood glucose. So, this makes me feel that the mix isn't passing through the stomach as quickly.
I don't know if this is true, and future studies may prove it to be false, but it's something I've thought about.
Another concern is that the % of ingredient per solution has a role in osmolality. A 5% solution of a HMW carb has an osmolality of about 11.....which compared to blood at around 280-300 is VERY low, and VERY good for rapid utilization. But, as the solution changes to a higher %, the osmolality increases.
This change in osmolality is MUCH smaller with the HMW carb than other high GI carbs, but it is still there. And when you add ingredients to a solution, you increase the % fo the solution. So, you would have to continue adding an increased amount of water to keep the osmolality the same.
This is one of the reasons it's beneficial to add plenty of water to the HMW carb.
I prefer waxy maize from trueprotein.com
When they were coming out with their WM product, they tried many different products. I don't know exactly how many they went through, but I personally experimented with W11, W13, and other numbers lower. I think they tried as many as 20 different versions.
Some worked okay, some worked very well, but were unpalatable. They finally agreed on the current product as it worked the best, and the taste is pretty good, especially when mixed with crystal light.
I never like telling someone that their protocol is wrong, as we all have to find what works best for us.
My problem with the Endura, is I remember seeing an osmolality rating on it in the high 200's, I believe. I think it may even be near 300. With Blood having an osmolality of 300, that means the Endura has no real concentration gradient to pass through the stomach. This means it has the potential to spend extra time there, pulling water with it, also into the stomach, which could cause bloating.
You may or may not be experiencing this. But, that is how I would find fault with that product.
Maltodextrin is a fine product, and was used for many years, with great success.
I don't know the osmolality of that, but I believe that Dextrose has an osmolality of 180, which is pretty high, and one of the reasons people often complaing of bloating with dextrose, especially combined with creatine.
Maltodextin is essentially bonds of dextrose (I think around 5-20 bonds in length?) bound by weak hydrogen bonds. So, I would imagine the osmolality of malto is similar to dextrose.
Also, something to remember is that with a GI as high as dextrose or maltodextin, you can actually get an insulin spike too early when using creatine. As the nutrients won't pass through the gut very quickly, the dextrose that does pass through, and is absorbed can cause an insulin spike before the creatine has reached the point of absorption, which isn't want we want.
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TRUEPROTEIN.COM 5% DISCOUNT CODE > MOU110
Many thanks. I'm printing it out to read at work. I basically tried it because I liked the HRS from proteinfactory.
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what is HRS ?
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TRUEPROTEIN.COM 5% DISCOUNT CODE > MOU110
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what is HRS ?
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TRUEPROTEIN.COM 5% DISCOUNT CODE > MOU110
Here's the link to it:
http://proteinfactory.com/shop/product.php?productid=219&cat=2&page=1
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Here's the link to it:
http://proteinfactory.com/shop/product.php?productid=219&cat=2&page=1
I think that WMS is better option
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TRUEPROTEIN.COM 5% DISCOUNT CODE > MOU110
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I think that WMS is better option
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TRUEPROTEIN.COM 5% DISCOUNT CODE > MOU110
Maybe. But I'm always willing to experiment.