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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Disgusted on May 27, 2007, 05:50:42 PM

Title: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: Disgusted on May 27, 2007, 05:50:42 PM
Other than the Olympia and the Arnold Classic for obvious reasons I think that the rest of the pro shows should have no prize money. Now, before everyone gets their panties in a bunch here are my thoughts. First I am not 100% sure that this is the best thing to do just some food for thought.

About 90% of the guys who enter these shows not only realize that they are not going to make the top 5, but also know that they are spending a sizable amount of income to be there. The are not entering these shows for the money. Most are doing it to qualify and the rest are doing it because they love what they do. Most pay their way and are not sponsored. Almost always the top guys who win are the sponsored guys anyway so even though they are making some money they are also looking to qualify first and are making a good income already.

The next thing to consider would be who would enter these shows if there was no money. Like I stated already there are plenty of guy who need to qualify so there would be no lack of competitors. Most of the top guys won't be there anyway since they have already qualified at the Olympia and AC. I think that instead of handing out prize money the promotors should pay for a certain amount of the expenses. Maybe hotel and food and plane tickets if possible for all of the competitors.


Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: G o a t b o y on May 27, 2007, 05:53:46 PM
Just because King has no chance of ever winning any prize money...    ;D
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: HERACLES on May 27, 2007, 05:54:43 PM
Pro bodybuilding will die out soon, when guys realize its not worth risking their health and spending $$$ for "supplements" for no proze money, and no salary as most "pros" get... The promoters are ripping them all off...Heck I laughed when I saw the corny cheesey cheap plaques they were giving out to the amateurs at the Keystone (Mr Lehigh Valley)...only the overall class winner got some nice trophy..all the top 5 winners got some corny cheap looking plaque...
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: Disgusted on May 27, 2007, 05:54:53 PM
Just because King has no chance of ever winning any prize money...    ;D

I swear to God I knew you were gonna say that.  ;D
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: G o a t b o y on May 27, 2007, 05:55:51 PM
I swear to God I knew you were gonna say that.  ;D


At least I'm predictable!  ;D
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: The Squadfather on May 27, 2007, 05:58:13 PM
I swear to God I knew you were gonna say that.  ;D
just don't ask him for a picture though Jim, he's in a VERY sensitive job and he can't risk anyone knowing who he is but he's 225 pounds at 1 percent bodyfat and moves huge weights and also runs 10 miles a day but you'll have to trust him on that. ;D
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: Disgusted on May 27, 2007, 06:00:52 PM
just don't ask him for a picture though Jim, he's in a VERY sensitive job and he can't risk anyone knowing who he is but he's 225 pounds at 1 percent bodyfat and moves huge weights and also runs 10 miles a day but you'll have to trust him on that. ;D

He sent me this pic of him as a baby so I guess we still don't realy know what he looks like as an adult.  ;D
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: texasbubba on May 27, 2007, 06:06:52 PM
Just because King has no chance of ever winning any prize money...    ;D

That was a good one Goat! 
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: Disgusted on May 27, 2007, 06:08:25 PM
That was a good one Goat! 

I don't think that he was trying to impress you Sean.
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: The Squadfather on May 27, 2007, 06:09:37 PM
hahahahahahaha, that picture always cracks me up. ;D
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: texasbubba on May 27, 2007, 06:10:13 PM
I don't think that he was trying to impress you Sean.

Nice to see you can cut and paste.  Should you be compensated for your fine work?
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: texasbubba on May 27, 2007, 06:10:49 PM
hahahahahahaha, that picture always cracks me up. ;D

That is a great picture of War-Pony. ::)
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: Disgusted on May 27, 2007, 06:10:58 PM
Nice to see you can cut and paste.  Should you be compensated for your fine work?

Bro, that really isn't all that funny.  :-\
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: Hunter86 on May 27, 2007, 06:13:27 PM
just don't ask him for a picture though Jim, he's in a VERY sensitive job and he can't risk anyone knowing who he is but he's 225 pounds at 1 percent bodyfat and moves huge weights and also runs 10 miles a day but you'll have to trust him on that. ;D

as oppose to you of course, a 260 lbs piece of shit who sits on his ass eating potatoe chips all day
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: War-Horse on May 27, 2007, 06:14:56 PM
Hmm.   good idea disgusted.     somethings gotta happen soon.
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: Disgusted on May 27, 2007, 06:18:24 PM
Hmm.   good idea disgusted.     somethings gotta happen soon.

It wouldn't be the worst of ideas to take away the prize money and throw it back at all the competitors. Being a "pro" bodybuilder is not about the money. Hell, even some amateurs get sponsored over some of the pros and make way more money.
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: texasbubba on May 27, 2007, 06:19:54 PM
It wouldn't be the worst of ideas to take away the prize money and throw it back at all the competitors. Being a "pro" bodybuilder is not about the money. Hell, even some amateurs get sponsored over some of the pros and make way more money.

Isn't this what the PDI is doing?
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: Disgusted on May 27, 2007, 06:20:38 PM
Isn't this what the PDI is doing?

Not sure I know what you mean.
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: Chick on May 27, 2007, 06:24:07 PM
Other than the Olympia and the Arnold Classic for obvious reasons I think that the rest of the pro shows should have no prize money. Now, before everyone gets their panties in a bunch here are my thoughts. First I am not 100% sure that this is the best thing to do just some food for thought.

About 90% of the guys who enter these shows not only realize that they are not going to make the top 5, but also know that they are spending a sizable amount of income to be there. The are not entering these shows for the money. Most are doing it to qualify and the rest are doing it because they love what they do. Most pay their way and are not sponsored. Almost always the top guys who win are the sponsored guys anyway so even though they are making some money they are also looking to qualify first and are making a good income already.

The next thing to consider would be who would enter these shows if there was no money. Like I stated already there are plenty of guy who need to qualify so there would be no lack of competitors. Most of the top guys won't be there anyway since they have already qualified at the Olympia and AC. I think that instead of handing out prize money the promotors should pay for a certain amount of the expenses. Maybe hotel and food and plane tickets if possible for all of the competitors.




Not quite sure i'm following your logic, Jim....what would be the point of taking the money away?
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: texasbubba on May 27, 2007, 06:25:00 PM
Not sure I know what you mean.

PDI not paying prize money to compete.
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: Disgusted on May 27, 2007, 06:30:00 PM
PDI not paying prize money to compete.

I wasn't aware the PDI didn't pay out prize money.
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: G o a t b o y on May 27, 2007, 06:33:09 PM
Not quite sure i'm following your logic, Jim....what would be the point of taking the money away?

The money would be sent to the IFBB to be put towards a fund to make the "Athlete's Rep" a paid position.  ::)
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: Disgusted on May 27, 2007, 06:42:49 PM
Not quite sure i'm following your logic, Jim....what would be the point of taking the money away?

Like I said I am not saying that this is the greatest of ideas, but one reason would be to redistribute the money to all of the competitors so that they can at least get their expenses paid. It would not kill the top 5 guys as far as not getting any "prize" money. Like I said, 99% of the time the top 5 guys are the sponsored guys anyway who are making good money. The top 5 would still be getting their expenses paid too.

You have said before that you are not only working on getting the prize money higher for shows, but also to get the low placing guys to get something too. I think this was mainly for the Olympia. My way would get all the guys to at least get their expenses paid and it wouldn't cost anyone any more money, just a way of redistributing it. This would apply to all the shows excluding the Olympia and AC.
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: Chick on May 27, 2007, 06:44:19 PM
The money would be sent to the IFBB to be put towards a fund to make the "Athlete's Rep" a paid position.  ::)

Well, I don't see where......huh? well...just hold on there a minute, maybe Jim's on to something...! ;D
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: Chick on May 27, 2007, 06:48:31 PM
Like I said I am not saying that this is the greatest of ideas, but one reason would be to redistribute the money to all of the competitors so that they can at least get their expenses paid. It would not kill the top 5 guys as far as not getting any "prize" money. Like I said, 99% of the time the top 5 guys are the sponsored guys anyway who are making good money. The top 5 would still be getting their expenses paid too.

You have said before that you are not only working on getting the prize money higher for shows, but also to get the low placing guys to get something too. I think this was mainly for the Olympia. My way would get all the guys to at least get their expenses paid and it wouldn't cost anyone any more money, just a way of redistributing it. This would apply to all the shows excluding the Olympia and AC.

Gotcha...I see your premise, but it wouldn't work for obvious reasons. I've got a few ideas of my own I've been working on, unfortunately, I cant really get into the details...

BUT...I think there are various ways to increase the earning power of athletes...one way is to try and have a "best entertainer" award, or a "best poser" award, or even the old "bodypart" prizes...some of the promoters have already been starting to do this....we (BB.com) have also had a "people's choice" winner for the fans to decide for themselves...
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: The Squadfather on May 27, 2007, 06:49:50 PM
the problem is there is no advertising$$$$ in bodybuilding the way there is for other sports and that's where the real money comes from.
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: Disgusted on May 27, 2007, 06:55:44 PM
Gotcha...I see your premise, but it wouldn't work for obvious reasons. I've got a few ideas of my own I've been working on, unfortunately, I cant really get into the details...

BUT...I think there are various ways to increase the earning power of athletes...one way is to try and have a "best entertainer" award, or a "best poser" award, or even the old "bodypart" prizes...some of the promoters have already been starting to do this....we (BB.com) have also had a "people's choice" winner for the fans to decide for themselves...

Not sure why you don't think it would work but, until the day comes that bodybuilding is hugely popular it is an unfortunate fact the we have to figure out ways to make it more lucrative for guys to compete.

One thing that kinda bothered me was the Colorado show last year. No, I am NOT picking on Sean. They gave away a hummer I think correct? Maybe leased it whatever. How does doing something like this benefit the guys who are competing and spending thousands to do so? Hell, if the promotors wanted to make more money selling tickets then forget about having a bodybuilding show, which seems secondary anyway and just sell tickets to the general public for the Hummer.
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: Matt C on May 27, 2007, 07:01:13 PM
We get our market value in life.

I suspect that for the lower level shows, the market value may in fact be $0.  I don't think it would stop anyone from competing if there was no prize money.

If I was a promoter and could take the risk, I would give it a try and see how it works.  If it did (and I think it would), it would eliminate the need for prize money at these shows and allow the promoters to use that money more efficiently elsewhere.  Capitalism = 1, bodybuilders = 0
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: Bigger Business on May 27, 2007, 07:01:26 PM
but also know that they are spending a sizable amount of income to be there.

Most Bodybuilders live beyond their means for no apparent reason. however most of them don't really have a 'life' either so they don't incur expenses like those of us who prefer a more social lifestyle. they don't really go anywhere but have to turn up in a Mercedes or an Escalade to train. its important to be passionate about things in your life...but its more important to be passionate about life :)

prize money stays...these cats need all the help they can get
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: Luv2Hurt on May 27, 2007, 07:08:48 PM
Most Bodybuilders live beyond their means for no apparent reason. however most of them don't really have a 'life' either so they don't incur expenses like those of us who prefer a more social lifestyle. they don't really go anywhere but have to turn up in a Mercedes or an Escalade to train. its important to be passionate about things in your life...but its more important to be passionate about life :)

prize money stays...these cats need all the help they can get


That may be how they enjoy their lives, everyone is different in that reguard.
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: Disgusted on May 27, 2007, 07:19:05 PM
Most Bodybuilders live beyond their means for no apparent reason. however most of them don't really have a 'life' either so they don't incur expenses like those of us who prefer a more social lifestyle. they don't really go anywhere but have to turn up in a Mercedes or an Escalade to train. its important to be passionate about things in your life...but its more important to be passionate about life :)

prize money stays...these cats need all the help they can get


You are missing my point bro. The top guys are making on average 70,000 a year and that is NOT from prize money and remember that they are the ones getting the prize money on top of sponsership. The "cats" that you should be talking about are the ones who are spending large amounts of money and never getting anything in return.
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: The Squadfather on May 27, 2007, 07:20:38 PM
You are missing my point bro. The top guys are making on average 70,000 a year and that is NOT from prize money and remember that they are the ones getting the prize money on top of sponsership. The "cats" that you should be talking about are the ones who are spending large amounts of money and never getting anything in return.
i thought Ronnie claimed he was making millions from BSN. ::)
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: Disgusted on May 27, 2007, 07:32:41 PM
i thought Ronnie claimed he was making millions from BSN. ::)

Yep, along with Paul Dillet.  ;D
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: The Squadfather on May 27, 2007, 07:35:27 PM
Yep, along with Paul Dillet.  ;D
hahahahaha, it was 4.2 wih paul and if you don't believe him he'll flip you off in MD in front of his neighbors Escalades.
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: Matt C on May 27, 2007, 07:45:15 PM
hahahahaha, it was 4.2 wih paul and if you don't believe him he'll flip you off in MD in front of his neighbors Escalades.

Bob claimed 4.3 million with bodybuilding.com on mayhem but I think he was joking about it, but you couldn't really tell from his post lol.  He said he was going to pay for somebody's lunch given that he just got the contract and was rolling in the money at the moment.  Somebody asked Bob what he was doing for bodybuilding.com to earn so much, and I expected him to come in and say he was joking (Re: Paul's claim), and wasn't actually making that, but when he realized people actually believe him, I think he intentionally didn't reply lol.

A google search revealed this:


http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=277678 (http://www.jdoqocy.com/click-1881271-10409943?url=http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=277678)
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: benchthis on May 28, 2007, 12:39:01 AM
bob sucks  >:(
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: Bigger Business on May 28, 2007, 02:05:54 AM
You are missing my point bro. The top guys are making on average 70,000 a year and that is NOT from prize money and remember that they are the ones getting the prize money on top of sponsership. The "cats" that you should be talking about are the ones who are spending large amounts of money and never getting anything in return.

I understand your point but you seem to have missed mine. These guys and gals are living beyond their means...its all good and well to invest in your passion be it a business or whatever but if its a sinking ship you gotta bail. bodybuilding is their business...if its bad its time to find something else...most of these folk don't know when to quit.

untill you're making a living from something it is just a hobby.
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: 1Fast400 on May 28, 2007, 04:10:48 PM
If pro shows are going to work, the IFBB has to quit charging so much for the "rights" to do it.  The IFBB is making enough money in other area's, they shouldn't rip promoters off as well.  The whole things is a family rigged nightmare.
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: The.Giant on May 28, 2007, 04:34:20 PM
It's pretty obvious that the best way to get more money to the competitors is to eliminate competition boundaries.

The pro's should be able to compete in any federation they want. Competition between businesses results in a better product.

This won't happen though, because it's bad for the Weiders and their monopoly.
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: Matt C on May 28, 2007, 04:35:28 PM
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=277678 (http://www.jdoqocy.com/click-1881271-10409943?url=http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=277678)

How many years is Bob's contract for?
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: 1Fast400 on May 28, 2007, 08:59:35 PM
I don't think people realize if you want to host a complete show, with the minimum prize purse, you're looking at 70,000 dollars.  There is a reason small pro shows have npc shows attached.  NPC shows are the ONLY way to make money.  NPC shows bring 2-3 family members per athlete.  On the pro level, nobody comes to watch pro bb'ers (unless it's the arnold/O). 

So you have 70k in "sanction" fee's and prize purse.  Other random expenses: lighting, stage, dressing rooms, hotel rooms for judges, various food expenses along with a list of other things. 

Now you show me a small show that is going to make enough profit to cover 80k worth of expenses?
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: Wombat on May 28, 2007, 11:13:38 PM
You are missing my point bro. The top guys are making on average 70,000 a year and that is NOT from prize money and remember that they are the ones getting the prize money on top of sponsership. The "cats" that you should be talking about are the ones who are spending large amounts of money and never getting anything in return.

then why take the money away?  Just split it up more evenly...Instead of the winner getting 20Gs, drop it to 10 and give more down the line...

The focus needs to be on the judging...These shows need to be judged the way we all know they could be...And their should be atleast two weight classes...
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: Matt C on May 29, 2007, 04:21:48 AM
As in any proper business model, supply must equal demand in order for it to be a progressive one.  Pros need to get their market value, whether that be $0 or $100,000.  I suspect it would be closer to $0.

As for WHY no one wants to go to bodybuilding shows, it used to annoy the hell out of me when TA would make comments as to why bodybuilding doesn't sell and try to analyze the situation.  This is simple: NO ONE WANTS TO SEE MUSCULAR MEN ON STAGE POSING AND FLEXING.  IT'S BORING AS SHIT.  Even to a person like myself who is about as much of a fan of bodybuilding as you can get.  It just isn't exciting.  I'm making sure this is emphasized because hopefully it isn't questioned again.

I would never travel to a bodybuilding show unless it is attached to a huge expo for networking purposes.  I think promoters would be best to target fans in the same city the show is being held at so that the net costs of attending the show equal the net benefit gained from attendance.  I don't think that is possible for most fans who are not from the same city, barring the top three expos - the Olympia, Arnold, and Fit Expo (at the Ironman).  Tim Fogarty brought up the benefits of targeting to the same city when he talked about the Ironman increasing attendance.
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: whitewidow on May 31, 2007, 01:56:31 AM
Other than the Olympia and the Arnold Classic for obvious reasons I think that the rest of the pro shows should have no prize money. Now, before everyone gets their panties in a bunch here are my thoughts. First I am not 100% sure that this is the best thing to do just some food for thought.

About 90% of the guys who enter these shows not only realize that they are not going to make the top 5, but also know that they are spending a sizable amount of income to be there. The are not entering these shows for the money. Most are doing it to qualify and the rest are doing it because they love what they do. Most pay their way and are not sponsored. Almost always the top guys who win are the sponsored guys anyway so even though they are making some money they are also looking to qualify first and are making a good income already.

The next thing to consider would be who would enter these shows if there was no money. Like I stated already there are plenty of guy who need to qualify so there would be no lack of competitors. Most of the top guys won't be there anyway since they have already qualified at the Olympia and AC. I think that instead of handing out prize money the promotors should pay for a certain amount of the expenses. Maybe hotel and food and plane tickets if possible for all of the competitors.




I think this is a really bad idea.
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: Matt C on May 31, 2007, 01:58:09 AM
I think this is a really bad idea.

Care to elaborate?
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: whitewidow on May 31, 2007, 02:07:58 AM
Care to elaborate?

It makes no sense. hes basically saying lets degrade these guys even further. if you dont have a good sponsor then maybe you should reconsider your career or the show your doing otherwise plan on it coming out of your own pocket. I remember kamali saying right around the time he turned pro that he refused to step on stage again without a sponsor backing him as he was sick of paying for the prep. athletes need to toughen up or find a new line of work. if your good people will pay!
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: 1Fast400 on May 31, 2007, 07:29:34 AM
If someone got into bodybuilding expecting to make a lot of money from stepping on stage, their just stupid. 
Title: Re: No prize money for pro shows?
Post by: Matt C on May 31, 2007, 02:11:17 PM
If someone got into bodybuilding expecting to make a lot of money from stepping on stage, their just stupid. 

What is the market value for bodybuilders in contest?  I would assume certainly no more than the total 20K prize purse given at the lower level shows.