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Getbig Female Info Boards => Womens Physique, Bodybuilding, Wellness and Training => Topic started by: Luv2Hurt on August 05, 2007, 12:39:33 PM
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If there is one body part that will improve your shape and proportions most it probally would be delts. Nice well developed delts will bring out that X shape that we all want. So don't be afraid to try and get these huge, especially the ladies.
I think the 2 best movements for delts are the seated DB overhead press and the one arm side lateral raise. These 2 movements will put the size on in the right places! Heavy is what I like for my presses and the side lats usually a more moderate weight for 10-15 reps not swinging. Bad part about the DB presses is, when the weights get high it is hard to get the DB's into position. Sometimes heavy DB can be almost dangerous as the potential for injury is high from just getting into position with the DB.
Will also do presses to the front seated in the smith machine and sometimes superset those with side lateral raises. Some of the shoulder press machines are OK. Not too fond of the Hammer Strength one though, hurts my shoulder joints. I usually do just one pressing movement. Best but most risky for me is the DB press.
I always thought and read that your front delts get plenty of work from other pressing moves you do like incline BB press. But in my experience if you can target your chest well when training it, you can also do a good job of keeping your front delt out of it. So I never really trained them hard and it was a mistake, they needed that training to grow and be big. DB, BB and cable front raises are the exercises I use here. If any of you guys know a cool front delt exercises then lets hear em :)
Rear delts are machine and cables usually, sometimes DB for me. Gotta have the big rear delts to look thick from the side so they should be hit mercilessly. Must not go too heavy so you can squeeze these baby's for all they are worth, try and stay smooth and keep tension on them through the whole movement. I like to try a heavy set or 2 and drop down just burning those delts up. There is a Hammer rowing machine or Free Motion that does a high row and I will use this for rear delts too, keep your elbows high and pull with the rear delts. Its nice cause you can pile some weight on there.
Overall I will do at least 5-6 working sets on the presses, 5-6 side raises and 4 sets each for front, rear. Traps get about 8 sets.
Traps will be various shrugs on, machine, cable, DB. I will see some people put TONS of weight on for these and if you look at their traps there is little size. This is the funniest exercise to try and show off on, it is so easy and such a short ROM that anyone can do it. I like 300-400lbs max here for the sets i try and grow on. Or i will sometimes just squeeze them with 55lb DBs.
Well just glanced at the calander and my upcoming show is 12 weeks out. This is gonna be fun 8) except giving up my avacodo chesse burgers is gonna suck :'( And i will have to cut back from a jar of peaunut butter a day to one every 3-4 days....total BS! :D
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Thank you so much for starting this thread...I LOVE to train my shoulders. They are probably my favorite body part to train...I love the pump you can get on your shoulders, and they burn like crazy!!
Ironically, I think that they are one of my weakest, and definitely an area where I need further development. I want to put more CAP on my shoulders, to get a better X shape, just like you are talking about.
The other thing that bothers me about my shoulder workout is that as much as I like doing it, it has gotten rather stale.
There are SO many variations of exercises for shoulders, yet I always seem to fall back on the same shoulder routine time and time again. I need to add some new exercises, and I really need to focus on developing the front and the cap.
Here's my basic shoulder workout. I am looking for any suggestions!
I almost always use free weights for my shoulder workouts, and I have run into the same trouble with the Hammer Strength press machine (too much strain on my joints).
Three sets of everything...Four sets of the first exercise, including a lighter, high rep warmup set.
---Dumbell presses heavy! (these are definitely hard with big weight...I always use a spotter to help me get them into position.)
---Dumbell lateral raises - I usually go heavier and bent arm for a few sets, and then lighter and straight arm for a few sets. These always BURN, but for some reason, I never feel like this exercise is actually helping me put mass on my shoulders. That could just be my imagination, but it's one of those exercises that I have been doing for years, and I always seem to use the same amount of weight. I may have gone up 5 pounds or so over the last 5-7 years, but it doesn't seem like I am growing much or getting that much stronger.
---Dumbell front raises - I do these about every other shoulder workout. I stopped doing them as much because I never felt like they were helping me grow my shoulders (this seems to be a recurring problem for me! ;D).
Sometimes I use a weighted body bar (like 15-18 pounds) for this exercise, standing with my back pressed up against a wall to prevent any swinging.
---Upright rows - with the E-Z curl bar. I love this exercise!
---Reverse pec deck - I like this machine in reverse for the rear delt. Sometimes I will do cables instead, but I really like the pec deck.
---About every other workout, I add three sets of dumbell shrugs to the end to hit my traps.
I don't work my traps very much, as I tend to think that very large traps on a FBB reduces the femininity of the "package" a bit. But I DO hit them, I just usually only do specific trap exercises every other workout.
Sometimes, I will add some trap work into my back workout as well by using the super wide grip pull on seated cable rows.
There is also a Hammer Strength low row machine that hits the traps pretty hard.
So my questions are...
HOW the HELL do you grow your shoulders? Seriously! Why do mine always burn like crazy but never grow much?
Why does the amount of weight I use for shoulder exercises not change very much over time? (with the exception of heavy DB presses, which I have gotten pretty strong on...)
Am I hitting all elements with the workout above? And how can I vary my shoulder workout?
:)
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Yeah I love that pump where you can't even support your own arms :'( They just ache!!
Well it sounds like you have answered your own question, if your routine is stale then its time for a change. Even just switching the order of the same exercises around will make a big difference. Do you do any barbell presses rip? Maybe in the smith machine? Are you going down far enough in your DB presses?
I have never gone too heavy in lateral raises and don't feel you need to. 10-12 reps and I like to do them most one arm at a time. Cable laterals are good too. I try to move the weight thinking about my elbow as the point im pushing from. If there is one thing i have learned in the last few years that is keep my mind on muscles and my muscles on my mind ;D LOL But its true there have been times fail on rep 9 of a halfass set. Then I think about and get pissed cause I know I was not pushing hard enough so the next set I get in the zone and slam out 12 reps with more weight!! Your mind is very strong. I usually have a minimum amount of reps I want to hit and just dont stop till I get them.
Front raises don't seem to do much for me either, although the cable front raises sure does pump em up :)
Your routine looks solid maybe another pressing movement?? Some workouts you could do DB presses and BB presses in the same work out to shock em. Or start with laterals one time and press last, keeping it fresh 8)
I haven't decided on upright rows. I used to do them when I first started training, but in many years have not done them. They hurt my shoulder, elbow and wrist now a days :(.....hey wait a minute "what does not hurt?" LOL Although they might be a good front delt move for me.
I agree I never was crazy about overpowering traps on a guy or a girl. But remember the traps are very visible in your back poses and they go down your back further than most people think! Think about them popping out in your rear double bicep :-*
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Yeah I love that pump where you can't even support your own arms :'( They just ache!!
Well it sounds like you have answered your own question, if your routine is stale then its time for a change. Even just switching the order of the same exercises around will make a big difference. Do you do any barbell presses rip? Maybe in the smith machine? Are you going down far enough in your DB presses?
I have never gone too heavy in lateral raises and don't feel you need to. 10-12 reps and I like to do them most one arm at a time. Cable laterals are good too. I try to move the weight thinking about my elbow as the point im pushing from. If there is one thing i have learned in the last few years that is keep my mind on muscles and my muscles on my mind ;D LOL But its true there have been times fail on rep 9 of a halfass set. Then I think about and get pissed cause I know I was not pushing hard enough so the next set I get in the zone and slam out 12 reps with more weight!! Your mind is very strong. I usually have a minimum amount of reps I want to hit and just dont stop till I get them.
Front raises don't seem to do much for me either, although the cable front raises sure does pump em up :)
Your routine looks solid maybe another pressing movement?? Some workouts you could do DB presses and BB presses in the same work out to shock em. Or start with laterals one time and press last, keeping it fresh 8)
I haven't decided on upright rows. I used to do them when I first started training, but in many years have not done them. They hurt my shoulder, elbow and wrist now a days :(.....hey wait a minute "what does not hurt?" LOL Although they might be a good front delt move for me.
I agree I never was crazy about overpowering traps on a guy or a girl. But remember the traps are very visible in your back poses and they go down your back further than most people think! Think about them popping out in your rear double bicep :-*
Mind/muscle control is an important element of training. Blockhead and I were actually discussing this issue when we got together in Chicago for some training.
Re. the upright rows, my husband has the same problem with wrists and elbows. We find that doing them with the EZ curl bar is a little better on the joints, as the wrist position is more comfortable b/c your hands are angled instead of straight. Another way to do these with less stress on the joints is with cables and the rope....the hand position is a little different than with a bar or dumbells.
I hardly ever barbell press because I am kinda scared of hurting myself with this exercise...I use dumbells, and I go down to about my ears with them. I think the barbell hits the front of the shoulder more than dumbells, which is not necessarily a bad thing.
I should probably get into the habit of alternating dumbells and barbells in my routine, or like you said, do both. I think that I will try to reverse the routine and hit presses last, just to shake things up a bit.
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Rip, if you are concerned about doing a barbell press, why not try the Smith machine? I recently began incorporating a behind the head shoulder press on the Smith machine (don't think i would try this one with a free bar), and have definitely seen some improvements in my shoulder size....and thats on a contest prep diet. Other than that, I pretty much stick to some combination of all the above mentioned exercises. My shoulders tend to get very lean, but I am still trying to work on improving the "cap" appearance, so anyone out there with suggestions would be appreciated :)
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Rip, if you are concerned about doing a barbell press, why not try the Smith machine? I recently began incorporating a behind the head shoulder press on the Smith machine (don't think i would try this one with a free bar), and have definitely seen some improvements in my shoulder size....and thats on a contest prep diet. Other than that, I pretty much stick to some combination of all the above mentioned exercises. My shoulders tend to get very lean, but I am still trying to work on improving the "cap" appearance, so anyone out there with suggestions would be appreciated :)
Thanks, I'll definitely work on the Smith machine for some variety.
I have always stayed away from behind the head shoulder presses, even on the Smith, as I have been warned about injury....although I am sure the risk is much lower when using the Smith.
Why do you go behind the head instead of in front? Can you tell a difference in terms of the part of your shoulder it works?
I've used the Smith before in front, and I notice that it hits the fronts of the shoulders (and perhaps some chest) pretty hard...does behind the head hit your rear delt more?
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I agree I never was crazy about overpowering traps on a guy or a girl. But remember the traps are very visible in your back poses and they go down your back further than most people think! Think about them popping out in your rear double bicep :-*
;D
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Mind/muscle control is an important element of training. Blockhead and I were actually discussing this issue when we got together in Chicago for some training.
Re. the upright rows, my husband has the same problem with wrists and elbows. We find that doing them with the EZ curl bar is a little better on the joints, as the wrist position is more comfortable b/c your hands are angled instead of straight. Another way to do these with less stress on the joints is with cables and the rope....the hand position is a little different than with a bar or dumbells.
I hardly ever barbell press because I am kinda scared of hurting myself with this exercise...I use dumbells, and I go down to about my ears with them. I think the barbell hits the front of the shoulder more than dumbells, which is not necessarily a bad thing.
I should probably get into the habit of alternating dumbells and barbells in my routine, or like you said, do both. I think that I will try to reverse the routine and hit presses last, just to shake things up a bit.
Yes I have not done the barbell press in years, except on the smith cause i agree the risk of hurting yourself on these is too high, smith machine while not as good as free weights IMO is safer and will let you push against some big weights. I still incline press with BB for chest half the time but will use the smith on occasion for safety. One thing is for sure the smith machine is a machine and is not as hard as free weights, but still there is a place for it in your rotation. If used right this machine can overload your muscles. But if you always use it...you will suffer.
;D
Love the pic of the rear dbl bicep ;D is that you Ripitup? loving the whole thing head to.... ;) My, my...
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Yes I have not done the barbell press in years, except on the smith cause i agree the risk of hurting yourself on these is too high, smith machine while not as good as free weights IMO is safer and will let you push against some big weights. I still incline press with BB for chest half the time but will use the smith on occasion for safety. One thing is for sure the smith machine is a machine and is not as hard as free weights, but still there is a place for it in your rotation. If used right this machine can overload your muscles. But if you always use it...you will suffer.
Love the pic of the rear dbl bicep ;D is that you Ripitup? loving the whole thing head to.... ;) My, my...
Yep, that was me, right after Junior Nats. :)
So I did a shoulder workout yesterday. Due to my slacking for the last month, I hadn't done a shoulder workout in at least a couple of weeks. And my numbers are still down from my offseason numbers last year. But here's what I did:
Dumbell Presses - 25 x 20 warmup, 45 x 11, 45 x 9, 50 x 7
Dumbell Lateral Raises - straight arms, 12 pounds, 4 sets. Two were supersets with 5 pound dumbells on the rears.
Front Raises - two supersets, 12 pound dumbell alternating, 15 pound bodybar with back against the wall
Upright Rows - 2 sets Ez bar plus 30 for 15, 2 sets ez bar plus 35 for 12
Shrugs - 3 sets with 45 pound plates
Reverse Pec deck - 3 sets
I feel like my weight should be up on most of the exercises, esp the fronts and sides. I've been using that weight forever it seems.
But I am sore!! :P
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Yep, that was me, right after Junior Nats. :)
So I did a shoulder workout yesterday. Due to my slacking for the last month, I hadn't done a shoulder workout in at least a couple of weeks. And my numbers are still down from my offseason numbers last year. But here's what I did:
Dumbell Presses - 25 x 20 warmup, 45 x 11, 45 x 9, 50 x 7
Dumbell Lateral Raises - straight arms, 12 pounds, 4 sets. Two were supersets with 5 pound dumbells on the rears.
Front Raises - two supersets, 12 pound dumbell alternating, 15 pound bodybar with back against the wall
Upright Rows - 2 sets Ez bar plus 30 for 15, 2 sets ez bar plus 35 for 12
Shrugs - 3 sets with 45 pound plates
Reverse Pec deck - 3 sets
I feel like my weight should be up on most of the exercises, esp the fronts and sides. I've been using that weight forever it seems.
But I am sore!! :P
I think you CAN use more weight on those exercises, if you want to. Say goodbye to the comfort zone :D
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I have pretty flexible shoulders, so I really have no issue with going behind the neck. When I trained shoulders with my boyfriend and he tried them, his range of motion was much more limited than mine mostly due to his muscle size and lack of flexibility. I think if you take some time to warm up and start out light with the exercise to make sure everything feels ok, you should be fine. I felt that when I was doing regular barbell press, I was hitting only the front portion of the shoulder and some chest, which is ok, but not really where i need the work (and I do a lot of incline pressing for chest which hits this area as well). Going behind the head (to me ) just feels like it works more of the whole shoulder...front, top and back. It may just be me, as everyone reacts differently to different exercises, but I have found it to be more effective than other variations of the press.
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I think you CAN use more weight on those exercises, if you want to. Say goodbye to the comfort zone :D
I think you are right. I used 12's instead of 15's b/c I was supersetting, but STILL...I need to get those numbers up!
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I think you are right. I used 12's instead of 15's b/c I was supersetting, but STILL...I need to get those numbers up!
That a girl!! Thats what i wanna hear :D
You don't always superset do you? and if you do alternate in days where you do straight sets and think about moving more weight on those days.
Another thing for you Rip, you very obviously have been doing the right things....just look at ya! :) Im just throwing some ideas out there and maybe giving a little push here and there ;)
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That a girl!! Thats what i wanna hear :D
You don't always superset do you? and if you do alternate in days where you do straight sets and think about moving more weight on those days.
Another thing for you Rip, you very obviously have been doing the right things....just look at ya! :) Im just throwing some ideas out there and maybe giving a little push here and there ;)
I NEED the push, especially right now during my slack season...thank you! :-*
I have gotten into the habit of doing a lot of supersets since my contest prep. I haven't really gotten into my off-season yet, so I am definitely in that comfort zone you mentioned right now.
My offseason will officially start in early October...my plan is to try to get my numbers up a little before my off-season without gaining any more weight, and then really hit it hard this off-season - with fewer supersets and MUCH heavier weight!
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gotta leave those db's alone for presses and hit the barbell, it's the only way, shoulder pressing your bodyweight seated for reps should be a goal.
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If I may make a suggestion. Both barbell and dumbell presses put tremendous vertical pressure on the vertebrae. By doing them on a slightly inclined bench you can decompose some of that pressure and save your back.
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If I may make a suggestion. Both barbell and dumbell presses put tremendous vertical pressure on the vertebrae. By doing them on a slightly inclined bench you can decompose some of that pressure and save your back.
Good tip! That is how i do them both, on a fullsize bench with the back on the first hole back from 90 degrees.
gotta leave those db's alone for presses and hit the barbell, it's the only way, shoulder pressing your bodyweight seated for reps should be a goal.
The DB's are still the best IMO, but agree the BB must also be used at times. You can push more weight with the BB. Sounds like Ripitup is getting pretty close to her BW on the DB presses. I would like to see her handling 60lb DB overhead press and 20 lb side laterals in the near future.
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The problem with the barbells is that unless you use the Smith Machine (which I don't love), all of the set-ups use a bench set at a 90 degree angle. I guess I'd be better off using the Smith with a slight incline on the bench.
I haven't done BB presses in quite a while (like several months), but the last time I did, I think I did 105 pretty comfortably for sets (30 on each side). I'll have to see if I can get up to my body weight. That would require 45's on each side, which would be pretty damn impressive. I can bench press significantly more than my body weight, so I should be able to get my shoulder presses up there.
I think that I was dumbell pressing the 55's at least, maybe the 60's, last year for heavy sets during my off-season last year. Unfortunately, to get up to body weight during the off-season, I'd need to be pressing the 65's or maybe even the 70's. :-\
It's not out of the question...I like to go HEAVY when I am feeling strong...so I will keep you posted on my numbers this off-season. I'd love to throw the 65's or 70's around...it intimidates the guys in the gym when I go for the big weights. ;D
When I am not slacking off, I do use the 20's for lateral raises with BENT arms, but I can hardly do the 15's for sets when I do straight arms.
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that's good weight on shoulders Rip, for sure, what i do is slide an adjustable bench into the power rack and then set the bench at about an 80-85 degree incline and do the presses off the pin in the rack, i agree with you on the standard shoulder press bench you see in most gyms, they're too straight up and down plus i hate how you have to reach up and back to take the bar off, very awkward.
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The problem with the barbells is that unless you use the Smith Machine (which I don't love), all of the set-ups use a bench set at a 90 degree angle. I guess I'd be better off using the Smith with a slight incline on the bench.
I haven't done BB presses in quite a while (like several months), but the last time I did, I think I did 105 pretty comfortably for sets (30 on each side). I'll have to see if I can get up to my body weight. That would require 45's on each side, which would be pretty damn impressive. I can bench press significantly more than my body weight, so I should be able to get my shoulder presses up there.
I think that I was dumbell pressing the 55's at least, maybe the 60's, last year for heavy sets during my off-season last year. Unfortunately, to get up to body weight during the off-season, I'd need to be pressing the 65's or maybe even the 70's. :-\
It's not out of the question...I like to go HEAVY when I am feeling strong...so I will keep you posted on my numbers this off-season. I'd love to throw the 65's or 70's around...it intimidates the guys in the gym when I go for the big weights. ;D
When I am not slacking off, I do use the 20's for lateral raises with BENT arms, but I can hardly do the 15's for sets when I do straight arms.
You are strong as im sure you body weight is probally around 120? Yeah nothing cooler than when a woman comes in and pushes some big weights around, I love it when I see them use more than lots of the guys ;D That's the coolest.
I dont know what it is about you guys but its very appealing to me....oh thats right I know what it is :)
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that's good weight on shoulders Rip, for sure, what i do is slide an adjustable bench into the power rack and then set the bench at about an 80-85 degree incline and do the presses off the pin in the rack, i agree with you on the standard shoulder press bench you see in most gyms, they're too straight up and down plus i hate how you have to reach up and back to take the bar off, very awkward.
Yeah I would definitely use a spotter for any barbell work I do. You could really hurt your rotator cuff reaching back like that.
I use a spotter for my dumbell presses anyway. I injured my back real bad a few years ago, and the final straw that sent me to the hospital was trying to heave up the heavy dumbells from my knees on incline presses.
You are strong as im sure you body weight is probally around 120? Yeah nothing cooler than when a woman comes in and pushes some big weights around, I love it when I see them use more than lots of the guys ;D That's the coolest.
I dont know what it is about you guys but its very appealing to me....oh thats right I know what it is :)
ERRrrrmmmmm yeah....120 sounds good to me!! ;)
I peaked last off-season at 143... ;D...I'm not there yet now, though, and I am kind of hoping not to get that big this year unless it's ALL quality size, but I doubt it. I am definitely closer to 130 than 120 right now for sure, but I haven't stepped on a scale in about a month, and I have no plans to in the immediate future.
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Yeah I would definitely use a spotter for any barbell work I do. You could really hurt your rotator cuff reaching back like that.
I use a spotter for my dumbell presses anyway. I injured my back real bad a few years ago, and the final straw that sent me to the hospital was trying to heave up the heavy dumbells from my knees on incline presses.
ERRrrrmmmmm yeah....120 sounds good to me!! ;)
I peaked last off-season at 143... ;D...I'm not there yet now, though, and I am kind of hoping not to get that big this year unless it's ALL quality size, but I doubt it. I am definitely closer to 130 than 120 right now for sure, but I haven't stepped on a scale in about a month, and I have no plans to in the immediate future.
When i first started training i used to do the BB presses in the power rack like squad says, even used to go behind the head then :-\ Currently I use the smith machine for them mainly cause it is safer. I usually train alone so the smith comes in real handy. Whats nice about it is it gives you the confidence to use big weights and just concentrate on pushing with the delts as much as you can. its nice cause it frees your mind to just think about the muscle being worked.
Thats so true about kicking up the big DB's and thats the point I was making when I said the potential for injury on that excersise is high. I have totaly injured my back before kicking up heavy DB's for the shoulder press. I have only seen them once but they make hooks that wrap around a bar that will hold the DB's in a starting position for you, so you dont have to kick them up, but you still gotta place the DB's into the hooks which can be a feat in itself when the bells start to get big. You can use the hooks for chest also.
http://www.fitstep.com/fitness-equipment-reviews/equipment-reviews/power-hooks-review.htm
Gonna go train shoulders this morning and am looking forward to that!!
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When i first started training i used to do the BB presses in the power rack like squad says, even used to go behind the head then :-\ Currently I use the smith machine for them mainly cause it is safer. I usually train alone so the smith comes in real handy. Whats nice about it is it gives you the confidence to use big weights and just concentrate on pushing with the delts as much as you can. its nice cause it frees your mind to just think about the muscle being worked.
Thats so true about kicking up the big DB's and thats the point I was making when I said the potential for injury on that excersise is high. I have totaly injured my back before kicking up heavy DB's for the shoulder press. I have only seen them once but they make hooks that wrap around a bar that will hold the DB's in a starting position for you, so you dont have to kick them up, but you still gotta place the DB's into the hooks which can be a feat in itself when the bells start to get big. You can use the hooks for chest also.
http://www.fitstep.com/fitness-equipment-reviews/equipment-reviews/power-hooks-review.htm
Gonna go train shoulders this morning and am looking forward to that!!
Those hooks look pretty damn cool.
OK, I am getting re-motivated now (thanks for the push ;)), and I'm gonna hit the shoulders HARD this week. I just did a leg workout that should cripple me for at least a couple of days, so I am ready to step it up with shoulders too. I'll letcha know what my numbers look like. 8)
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Those hooks look pretty damn cool.
OK, I am getting re-motivated now (thanks for the push ;)), and I'm gonna hit the shoulders HARD this week. I just did a leg workout that should cripple me for at least a couple of days, so I am ready to step it up with shoulders too. I'll letcha know what my numbers look like. 8)
Your welcome ripitupbaaaby :) Look forward to hearing how things go!
I pushed them hard myself heavy smith presses 6 sets, one arm DB side laterals up to 35lbs 5 sets, reverse pec deck 5 sets, front raises with barbel seated on declice bech 4 sets, high rear delt rows free motion 3 sets. Traps 8 sets shrugs machine and DB
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I pushed them hard myself heavy smith presses 6 sets, one arm DB side laterals up to 35lbs 5 sets, reverse pec deck 5 sets, front raises with barbel seated on declice bech 4 sets, high rear delt rows free motion 3 sets. Traps 8 sets shrugs machine and DB
Sweet. 8)
A couple of questions:
(1.) If I am going to go heavy on the lateral raises, like sets of 8-10, would I be better of going bent arm with 20 or maybe even 25 pounds, or straight arm with 12 or maybe 15 pounds? Do you think there is much difference between bent and straight arm raises?
(2.) When are we going to see more pics of your delts and traps? ;D
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Sweet. 8)
A couple of questions:
(1.) Do you think there is much difference between bent and straight arm raises?
The main difference is the lever arm. With straight arm raises, the lever arm is your arm; with bent arms, it's the diagonal from your delt to the weight. In the latter the lever arm will be shorter and therefore you're in a position of better leverage, allowing you to use more weight.
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Sweet. 8)
A couple of questions:
(1.) If I am going to go heavy on the lateral raises, like sets of 8-10, would I be better of going bent arm with 20 or maybe even 25 pounds, or straight arm with 12 or maybe 15 pounds? Do you think there is much difference between bent and straight arm raises?
(2.) When are we going to see more pics of your delts and traps? ;D
I have always went with a pretty straight arm when i do lateral raises, although there is a slight bend in my arm. I always bring the bells down to the sides of my leg and pull up from there too. I have seldom done the bent arm type raise, except a couple machines put my arms in that position and they seem OK for a change of pace. but overall I will always do Db or cable raises with a pretty straight arm and work in the 10-12 range. Some people say tip the front of the DB down and i dont know if that matters much, i keep them pretty level now.
Charles Glass in an article I read from him said if you are having trouble making gains with the front down type raise, try them with the front up instead. I tried it and it felt a little different, might try it for a change from time to time.
I would do the straight arm type with a small bend if i was you and the 15lbs are the normal weight now with the 20's being the prefered choice ;D
Pics of little ole me? ;D I will have to start getting some done soon. Its funny people have been telling me Im still tight at this BW, but i dont feel it yet myself. The show im doing in October is shaping up to be a tough one, so Luv will be bringing it!! And we will need plenty of pics ;D
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The main difference is the lever arm. With straight arm raises, the lever arm is your arm; with bent arms, it's the diagonal from your delt to the weight. In the latter the lever arm will be shorter and therefore you're in a position of better leverage, allowing you to use more weight.
Do you think there is any difference in terms of which part of the shoulder it hits? (i.e., is there one that is better than the other to really hit the side of the shoulder?)
I have always went with a pretty straight arm when i do lateral raises, although there is a slight bend in my arm. I always bring the bells down to the sides of my leg and pull up from there too. I have seldom done the bent arm type raise, except a couple machines put my arms in that position and they seem OK for a change of pace. but overall I will always do Db or cable raises with a pretty straight arm and work in the 10-12 range. Some people say tip the front of the DB down and i dont know if that matters much, i keep them pretty level now.
Charles Glass in an article I read from him said if you are having trouble making gains with the front down type raise, try them with the front up instead. I tried it and it felt a little different, might try it for a change from time to time.
I would do the straight arm type with a small bend if i was you and the 15lbs are the normal weight now with the 20's being the prefered choice ;D
Pics of little ole me? ;D I will have to start getting some done soon. Its funny people have been telling me Im still tight at this BW, but i dont feel it yet myself. The show im doing in October is shaping up to be a tough one, so Luv will be bringing it!! And we will need plenty of pics ;D
My trainer showed me a variation on the lateral raises that Tony Freeman showed her. You turn your elbows upwards so that your arms are sort of like a scarecrow, and you basically do the raises with your elbows leading. Does that make sense? It seems to hit more of the rear delt and trap than the side and/or front.
I will try them with a relatively straight arm and as much weight as I can do in the 10-12 rep range, and I'll letcha know what the numbers look like.
Bring it baby!! You looked tight already in the last round of pics you posted.....if things are only improving since then, then you are well on your way. OH, and you're right, the more pics, the better. 8)
You KNOW that the ladies here will be inspired by your pics, and we can give you some good feedback and support, so feel free to post them as often as possible. ;D
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"Charles Glass in an article I read from him said if you are having trouble making gains with the front down type raise, try them with the front up instead. I tried it and it felt a little different, might try it for a change from time to time."
Can you explain this a little further? The way I'm reading it is when doing lateral raises, instead of doing the thumb down/pouring a pitcher type arm position, do more of a thumb up, palms facing forward position? It seems like an interesting concept, so I just wanted to make sure I was reading that correctly and wasn't way off. I'm always looking for new ways to improve my shoulders...will try anything, lol.
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My trainer showed me a variation on the lateral raises that Tony Freeman showed her. You turn your elbows upwards so that your arms are sort of like a scarecrow, and you basically do the raises with your elbows leading. Does that make sense? It seems to hit more of the rear delt and trap than the side and/or front.
I will try them with a relatively straight arm and as much weight as I can do in the 10-12 rep range, and I'll letcha know what the numbers look like.
Bring it baby!! You looked tight already in the last round of pics you posted.....if things are only improving since then, then you are well on your way. OH, and you're right, the more pics, the better. 8)
You KNOW that the ladies here will be inspired by your pics, and we can give you some good feedback and support, so feel free to post them as often as possible. ;D
Cool ripitup, that move your trainer showed you sounds good for rear delts, some times I will do rear raises laying face down on an incline bench and they are hard to do that way...no fun! So they must be good then LOL :P
I was pretty tight in those shots that was about 2 months ago, so things got a little worse since then LOL :D But im really only about 15-20 lbs out from my competition weight now. I kept my weight down after I competed last march 31 like just about 5 lbs or so from comp weight. Which was good and bad, I looked good but it was hard on my system and then I got sick for about a week, got dehydrated and did not really eat for a few days. I think it was just my bodies way of saying "hey slow down!"
Thank you also for the push :-*
"Charles Glass in an article I read from him said if you are having trouble making gains with the front down type raise, try them with the front up instead. I tried it and it felt a little different, might try it for a change from time to time."
Can you explain this a little further? The way I'm reading it is when doing lateral raises, instead of doing the thumb down/pouring a pitcher type arm position, do more of a thumb up, palms facing forward position? It seems like an interesting concept, so I just wanted to make sure I was reading that correctly and wasn't way off. I'm always looking for new ways to improve my shoulders...will try anything, lol.
Yes tigereyes that is how I understood it. I did try it and got a good pump from them.
Heres one that I kind of like of me ;D
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Do you think there is any difference in terms of which part of the shoulder it hits? (i.e., is there one that is better than the other to really hit the side of the shoulder?)
Yeah, I think straight arms would hit the lower part of the side delt (the insertion in the middle of your upper arm), because that part of the muscle is closest to the weight. Bent arms hit the part of the muscle near your clavicle, for the same reason.
Lookin' good Luv2hurt
Since were showing pics, here's me at age 40 w/ Janeane Garafalo. She's about your (Rip) height.
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Sweet pics. Looking REALLY good Luv2Hurt. 8)
You're within a good weight range, it should be a piece of cake for you to become stage ready (hahaha I know it NEVER is)...and your shoulders look really good BTW.
Hopefully you took the down time your body needed to get you mentally and physically ready for this prep! I'm looking forward to seeing how you progress.
Thin Lizzy, is that really Janine G? For some reason it doesn't look like her to me.
LOVE the pics, guys! :-*
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how's your back training coming Rip?
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how's your back training coming Rip?
The back training thread is definitely coming soon...that's the other area where I need to focus some attention during this off-season, for sure!
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Sweet pics. Looking REALLY good Luv2Hurt. 8)
Thin Lizzy, is that really Janine G? For some reason it doesn't look like her to me.
That's her. She looks unusually happy in that pic. My tender touch has that affect on women ;D
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Yeah, I think straight arms would hit the lower part of the side delt (the insertion in the middle of your upper arm), because that part of the muscle is closest to the weight. Bent arms hit the part of the muscle near your clavicle, for the same reason.
Lookin' good Luv2hurt
Since were showing pics, here's me at age 40 w/ Janeane Garafalo. She's about your (Rip) height.
Thanks TL and yes Janeane looks very happy and cute as a button :)
Sweet pics. Looking REALLY good Luv2Hurt. 8)
You're within a good weight range, it should be a piece of cake for you to become stage ready (hahaha I know it NEVER is)...and your shoulders look really good BTW.
Hopefully you took the down time your body needed to get you mentally and physically ready for this prep! I'm looking forward to seeing how you progress.
Thin Lizzy, is that really Janine G? For some reason it doesn't look like her to me.
LOVE the pics, guys! :-*
Thanks ripitup! :-* I think I allowed myself enough food and rest to peak again. 10 weeks out right now 15-17 pounds to lose should be about 190-195 for the show, Im 5'7" 8) Hows the delt training going for you right now? I have been getting incredible pumps from the side lats lately ;D
The back training thread is definitely coming soon...that's the other area where I need to focus some attention during this off-season, for sure!
Man thats a good one too. For me this is one of the first areas where I lose size when I diet. Have always trained back very basic and heavy, probally too heavy cause Im not getting the results I want :-\ One routine I did when starting out was just wide grip pull ups and BB bent over rows, 6 work sets each.
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Thanks TL and yes Janeane looks very happy and cute as a button :)
Thanks ripitup! :-* I think I allowed myself enough food and rest to peak again. 10 weeks out right now 15-17 pounds to lose should be about 190-195 for the show, Im 5'7" 8) Hows the delt training going for you right now? I have been getting incredible pumps from the side lats lately ;D
Man thats a good one too. For me this is one of the first areas where I lose size when I diet. Have always trained back very basic and heavy, probally too heavy cause Im not getting the results I want :-\ One routine I did when starting out was just wide grip pull ups and BB bent over rows, 6 work sets each.
WELL...............I have been slacking big time...I havent made it to the gym yet this week. :-\
I did cardio three times in the morning this week just so that I don't feel like a total TOAD, but I am feeling pretty guilty about my recent slackness. I keep telling myself that I deserve it, but enough is enough. I AM still sore from my leg workout last Sunday, which is the last time I was at the gym LOL.
Back ON IT next week, and I should be rested enough to move some heavy weight around. I'll letcha know what the shoulder workout looks like.
Back Training thread is coming next week! I need more upper back thickness!!
Keep up the good work Luv...I have been training vicariously through you. ;D
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Keep up the good work Luv...I have been training vicariously through you. ;D
;D ;D
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I did shoulders tonight, and definitely stepped out of the comfort zone a little.
I am still feeling weak relative to last year's off-season, but I am also still slacking in terms of consistency.
presses 25x20, 50x6, 50x6, 50x5
bent laterals 4 sets 25x8-ish
front raises 4 sets 15x10
Then I did a little machine work. Short and sweet. Heavier than I have in a long time. I should be sore.
I'll be pressing 60s later this year, no problem. 8)
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I'll be pressing 60s later this year, no problem. 8)
Without a doubt!
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I did shoulders tonight, and definitely stepped out of the comfort zone a little.
I am still feeling weak relative to last year's off-season, but I am also still slacking in terms of consistency.
presses 25x20, 50x6, 50x6, 50x5
bent laterals 4 sets 25x8-ish
front raises 4 sets 15x10
Then I did a little machine work. Short and sweet. Heavier than I have in a long time. I should be sore.
I'll be pressing 60s later this year, no problem. 8)
Just for the record, I am surprised at how sore I am! :'(
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I did a TOTALLY different shoulder/trap workout tonight.
(1) After a couple of warmup sets, I did Smith Machine Shoulder Presses. I have not done these for AGES, and the last time I did, I was dieting, so I was using relatively light weight. I did not go behind the neck cuz I am scared to lol. I used a straight bench though, no incline whatsoever, just because it was what was there.
I did one set with 30 pounds each side (60 total on the bar) for 8 reps. Then three sets with 35 pounds on each side (70 total on the bar) for 5, 5, and 4 reps.
Is that good weight? I have no idea.
This guy at the gym walked past me and said "going light tonight huh?" but I couldn't tell if he was joking or not. :-\
All I know is that it was hard as hell!
(2) Hammer Strength super LOW ROW - this is a row but it is sooo low that it hits mostly traps. Three sets of however many (I can't recall) with 45 on each side.
(3) Nautilus Lateral Raise machine - Bent Arm. Three sets set at 50 pounds. I don't like this machine btw. :P
(4) Nautilus Reverse Pec Deck - for rear delts. Three sets set at 50 pounds first set (15) and 65 pounds for the last two (10).
(5) Shrugs - Two sets of dumbell shrugs using 45 and 55 pounds.
Then I decided to go for it with the barbell shrugs.
I did one set 135 x 10 and two sets 155 x 7 or 8.
I finished off with two light sets on the Nautilus shoulder press to burn the shit out of my shoulders.
:)
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I personally do more volume,
do u do front raises? I do those with a bar, and go for the burn lol. I think u have a workout outlined there,
I would have to see images of the machines to see what they are.
I have an old nautilous lateral raise machine in gym, I use that and dumnbell. I do the arnold style raises, for laterals, and bring the dunmbells all the way up, so they touvh at the top.
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I personally do more volume,
do u do front raises? I do those with a bar, and go for the burn lol. I think u have a workout outlined there,
I would have to see images of the machines to see what they are.
I have an old nautilous lateral raise machine in gym, I use that and dumnbell. I do the arnold style raises, for laterals, and bring the dunmbells all the way up, so they touvh at the top.
Most of the time I do front raises but I know I need to go heavier. This was a totally different workout than I usually do. I almost never do those exercises with the exception of the reverse pec deck and the shrugs.
What do you mean that you do more volume? More exercises, more sets, more supersets?
:)
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Most of the time I do front raises but I know I need to go heavier. This was a totally different workout than I usually do. I almost never do those exercises with the exception of the reverse pec deck and the shrugs.
What do you mean that you do more volume? More exercises, more sets, more supersets?
:)
I just like to train lol, I think, a lot of people, esp in my gym thiunk I do too much, but i try to as much as I can, personally.
What you outlined looks about right to me.
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I did a TOTALLY different shoulder/trap workout tonight.
(1) After a couple of warmup sets, I did Smith Machine Shoulder Presses. I have not done these for AGES, and the last time I did, I was dieting, so I was using relatively light weight. I did not go behind the neck cuz I am scared to lol. I used a straight bench though, no incline whatsoever, just because it was what was there.
I did one set with 30 pounds each side (60 total on the bar) for 8 reps. Then three sets with 35 pounds on each side (70 total on the bar) for 5, 5, and 4 reps.
Is that good weight? I have no idea.
This guy at the gym walked past me and said "going light tonight huh?" but I couldn't tell if he was joking or not. :-\
All I know is that it was hard as hell!
(2) Hammer Strength super LOW ROW - this is a row but it is sooo low that it hits mostly traps. Three sets of however many (I can't recall) with 45 on each side.
(3) Nautilus Lateral Raise machine - Bent Arm. Three sets set at 50 pounds. I don't like this machine btw. :P
(4) Nautilus Reverse Pec Deck - for rear delts. Three sets set at 50 pounds first set (15) and 65 pounds for the last two (10).
(5) Shrugs - Two sets of dumbell shrugs using 45 and 55 pounds.
Then I decided to go for it with the barbell shrugs.
I did one set 135 x 10 and two sets 155 x 7 or 8.
I finished off with two light sets on the Nautilus shoulder press to burn the shit out of my shoulders.
:)
Well thats good you got on the bar presses :) The only thing is I would for sure use is a bench with a full back rest, like Thin Lizzy said in an earlier post it helps take pressure off your spine. I bet you will be able to get 45s on each side for 8-10 this winter! Thats what we are shooting for 8) Those weights sound great without a back rest, man if its hard and you pushed like you did than thats what it should be. Im sure the guy was joking with you because I never see women use that much weight on those either, so it was a compliment.
I do have to say that my first impression was the same as DavidPaul's the volume seemed a little low as in sets, good volume of pressing sets though IMO. Some people respond well to less volume and your delts rock so......... :)
I think the best part is you switched it up and did different stuff. I would if I was you alternate between smith presses and DB presses in your work outs, meaning one week do smith the next week DB. I like to do this once and a while and you have to try it. Set up your smith machine and do a set, have DB's waiting right in front of you (and if they are not at least 15lbs then Im gonna come spank you ;)) after the presses grab the DB's and do 12 lateral raises or as many as you can. This will fry those delts I like to do 5 work sets like this. DO NOT GIVE UP ON THE SMITH FRONT PRESSES keep them in there. They will help you at your bench meets too :)
I have not seen those Nautilus machines in years. The first gym I joined had them and some were awesome!! The leg extension is the best I ever used! That shoulder press is pretty good too. I also liked the nautilus preacher curl and triceps ext.
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Well thats good you got on the bar presses :) The only thing is I would for sure use is a bench with a full back rest, like Thin Lizzy said in an earlier post it helps take pressure off your spine. I bet you will be able to get 45s on each side for 8-10 this winter! Thats what we are shooting for 8) Those weights sound great without a back rest, man if its hard and you pushed like you did than thats what it should be. Im sure the guy was joking with you because I never see women use that much weight on those either, so it was a compliment.
I do have to say that my first impression was the same as DavidPaul's the volume seemed a little low as in sets, good volume of pressing sets though IMO. Some people respond well to less volume and your delts rock so......... :)
I think the best part is you switched it up and did different stuff. I would if I was you alternate between smith presses and DB presses in your work outs, meaning one week do smith the next week DB. I like to do this once and a while and you have to try it. Set up your smith machine and do a set, have DB's waiting right in front of you (and if they are not at least 15lbs then Im gonna come spank you ;)) after the presses grab the DB's and do 12 lateral raises or as many as you can. This will fry those delts I like to do 5 work sets like this. DO NOT GIVE UP ON THE SMITH FRONT PRESSES keep them in there. They will help you at your bench meets too :)
I have not seen those Nautilus machines in years. The first gym I joined had them and some were awesome!! The leg extension is the best I ever used! That shoulder press is pretty good too. I also liked the nautilus preacher curl and triceps ext.
I'll definitely alternate between the two and try to use a bench with a taller back and slight incline next time. And I'll do the supersets with the lateral raises, although you made me unsure about whether I want to use more than 15 pounds... ;)
However, I am doing some research re. training for maximizing my benchpress, and IF I decide to give it a try this winter, I will be changing my workout routine a lot, including doing very little shoulder work at all. We'll see...it's a big change, and I want to make sure I can do it without compromising my bb goals. I'm prolly gonna do the bench meet regardless of whether or not I train specifically for it, though.
:)
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although you made me unsure about whether I want to use more than 15 pounds... ;)
Awwhhh Ripitup............. :)
However, I am doing some research re. training for maximizing my benchpress, and IF I decide to give it a try this winter, I will be changing my workout routine a lot, including doing very little shoulder work at all. We'll see...it's a big change, and I want to make sure I can do it without compromising my bb goals. I'm prolly gonna do the bench meet regardless of whether or not I train specifically for it, though.
:)
That probally is very true, the PLs I know do very little shoulder work, but have seen them do some. I guess the point I was making is the strength and power you build on that movement will transfer into more strength on the bench down the road 8)
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That probally is very true, the PLs I know do very little shoulder work, but have seen them do some. I guess the point I was making is the strength and power you build on that movement will transfer into more strength on the bench down the road 8)
Indeed!
I am learning that training for benching is quite different if you really go for it...two chest workouts a week, and maybe like 1 or 2 shoulder exercises on a day inbetween. Definitely still do laterals and something for rear delts. No extra tricep work either, and lots of rest. I think that the shoulder work is reduced to avoid over-exhausting the muscles and potentially injuring yourself.
I'm still scoping it out and trying to figure out how to best structure my workouts if I go this way. I am not going to do much of anything different in terms of my overall workout routine until probably October. In the meantime, I am just going to focus on heavy lifting and getting my strength back up everywhere. 8)
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every good PL'er i've ever known blasted the living shit out of shoulders.
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Awwhhh Ripitup............. :)
That probally is very true, the PLs I know do very little shoulder work, but have seen them do some. I guess the point I was making is the strength and power you build on that movement will transfer into more strength on the bench down the road 8)
The powerlifters I have seen, did little to none shoulder work.
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The powerlifters I have seen, did little to none shoulder work.
I just posted my proposed PL routine on the PL board. Not much shoulder work in there, as per Hedgehog's advice. I will continue to do some lateral and rear delt work.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=166468.0
And I will continue to post some updates on how my shoulders are doing in this thread. :)
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probably the best bencher who ever lived Jim Williams said he used to demolish his shoulders until he couldn't lift his arms with militaries, front raises with a 100 pound plate, side raises, rear raises, shrugs, etc. and the man benched 700 raw in 1972, Bill Kazmaier was known for seated db pressing a pair of 100's for 40 reps and doing all the other shoulder movements but i suppose they don't know what they're doing. ::)
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My understanding is that shoulder workout is minimized when training for PL so that you don't burn your shoulders out before or after a chest workout (over-training them), and because you get plenty of shoulder work through your two chest workouts every week.
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My understanding is that shoulder workout is minimized when training for PL so that you don't burn your shoulders out before or after a chest workout (over-training them), and because you get plenty of shoulder work through your two chest workouts every week.
wrong understanding.
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wrong understanding.
No, I'm right. ;D
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No, I'm right. ;D
Your Both right (but I hate to EVER say that re: Squad ;D)
Thing is, if you watch what a top PLers idea of "a little assistance work for shoulders at the end of a workout"... It would destroy a lot of very impressive local BBers.
Them shoulders need stability.
If yur going to a Bench shirt, you will be forced to touch lower than you'r used to.
(GOOD! That'z how you lift the most!)
Spend some time on delts, do clean & jerks if experienced, front raises, band & Chain front raises.
You will gains strength very fast w/ the shit, and its easy to get greedy and hurt a delt. That low touch with
wide grip, but elbows tucked on the drop is SO different from what your used to. Its going to use muscles that have never been used before. esp ant-Delts.
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No, I'm right. ;D
hahahahha, ok "rip" i guess people like Bill Kazmaier, Jim Williams, Ryan Kennelly, Brian Siders, Ted Arcidi didn't know what they were doing ::), they all did tons of shoulder work.
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hahahahha, ok "rip" i guess people like Bill Kazmaier, Jim Williams, Ryan Kennelly, Brian Siders, Ted Arcidi didn't know what they were doing ::), they all did tons of shoulder work.
Right, but they spend even more time on their lifts.
Its assistance work, not a end to itself.
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Right, but they spend even more time on their lifts.
Its assistance work, not a end to itself.
i never said they didn't and i never said she shouldn't, she's claiming that ZERO shoulder work is the way to go and there isn't ONE huge bencher that trains that way but if she wants to take her 185 pound husbands mighty advice on how he achieved his massive 255 bench let her listen. :D
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i never said they didn't and i never said she shouldn't, she's claiming that ZERO shoulder work is the way to go and there isn't ONE huge bencher that trains that way but if she wants to take her 185 pound husbands mighty advice on how he achieved his massive 255 bench let her listen. :D
I vote for shoulder work too. esp ant delt specialization at 1st.
Shirt form is WAY diff from what most flat-back elbows-out BBers are remotely used to.
Add to that how much more plate you HAVE to throw on Bar to even make the shirt work, and invitation to delt injury.
Yes train delts. But a bunch of stuff like side laterals etc are pointless.
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but if she wants to take her 185 pound husbands mighty advice on how he achieved his massive 255 bench let her listen. :D
Dude you are so transparent.
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hahahahahaa ok....I am gonna do SOME shoulder work, I always planned to. I am going to do incline dumbell presses, which will hit the fronts, and I am going to do sides and rears every week.
trab's actually right. :)
And my husband weighs well over 185 and benches well over 255. :P
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hahahahahaa ok....I am gonna do SOME shoulder work, I always planned to. I am going to do incline dumbell presses, which will hit the fronts, and I am going to do sides and rears every week.
trab's actually right. :)
And my husband weighs well over 185 and benches well over 255. :P
Yeah, but Squad can kick his ass eatin'n DOUGNUTS!
Squads got the superior body part for that job. And, His only remarkable one at that.
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trab, what do you suggest for anterior delts...front raises?
:)
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trab, what do you suggest for anterior delts...front raises?
:)
I hurt my ant delt good shortly after geting the low-touch "Elbows Tight" form.
THing is, Ive ALLWAYS DONE Tons of Front raises! THey didnt help with that low touch move at all.
THis bench is a totaly diff animal. And, you will RAPIDLY go up in Lbs on the bar. ;) Love that!
**Ant delt raise w/ band or chains, or last choice cables.
DBs get light and easy at the top. You want the exact oposite of that. esp if ya dont have delts like pumkins. Big dudes can just bull it .
Smaller PPL need to think a little, but many get way more out of their shirt.
***Shoulder rotations, again the DB just dont lay the pressure on where it really counts.
You want that pressure where the DB normaly gives the least.
Bands, or chains on the single arm curl handle (big caribiner) from the cable crossover unit.
Clean and jerks, or even just repetive low-rep cleans.
**Upright rows (I like single hands w/ a band in each hand, or again, the single handles w/ chains. Easier on the shoulder joints.)
Lats are important to, for a wide flared Landing pad at the bottom. All the normal stuff for them.
Triceps will tell ya what to do. Cant go wrong.
I like partial movment to lock out dips,,, & 4 and 5 board press w/ shoulder width grip.
You can bench 2+ wheels per side before ya know it, get help and force rep it out.
Velocity off the chest is the whole trick.
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So here's the deal with shoulder training during a bench press program. I am going to focus a lot of my training around maximizing my bench press. As a result, I do not want to overtrain the shoulders or the triceps, both of which get hit hard during the bench workouts.
YES, there will be shoulder training involved, but it will be "PRE HAB" training as opposed to mass building. It will focus on the side and rear delts, particularly the rears. The fronts get hit pretty hard during the chest workout, esp if incline presses are included. Therefore, the sides and rears will require pre-hab work.
For those of you who are not familiar with pre-hab training, it's basically training specifically to AVOID injury...training to make sure that the components of the shoulders that are important for benching stay strong enough to not get injured. This is much different than training to maximize shoulder strength or to build alot of mass.
Here's some very basic info on what Pre-Hab training is.
Many physical therapists and athletic trainers are using pre-hab as part of a daily program to help prevent nagging injuries as well as the larger ones that require surgery. To be specific, a pre-hab program to prevent injuries focuses on a person’s body imbalances. Most imbalances occur in the following regions of the body:
Chest and Upper back / Rear Shoulder -- Many young athletes try to bench press a truck but neglect their upper back and rear deltoids, which can lead to shoulder injuries and a sloping of the upper back.
Prehab is a personalized exercise program that continually evolves. It provides sports specific focused exercises and activities for athlete's needs. The philosophy is simple. Prevent injuries. The development and execution of an effective program can be complex. The practice of prehab and its success relies greatly on an athlete's ability to commit to prevention. The development of the program needs to be progressive and periodically re-evaluated to change with the athlete's needs.
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fucck all that dumb shit, work up to handling at least bodyweight on seated shoulder presses for reps and your bench will climb.
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I'm usually not in favor of deleting posts unless it's something really mean, but in the spirit of keeping this thread on track, I'll delete all of the non-relevant posts. :)
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So I've been trying to do the Smith machine presses for the last couple of weeks, with a slight incline on the bench. Whenever I do them, there is some "crunching" going on in my right shoulder. I can feel it, it's on the way down, and it seems like I can hear it, but I'm not sure. I don't know what it is, but I don't suppose it's good. It doesn't really feel good either lol.
I don't seem to have a problem with incline or straight up dumbell presses. I wonder if it's the angle of the Smith machine?
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So I've been trying to do the Smith machine presses for the last couple of weeks, with a slight incline on the bench. Whenever I do them, there is some "crunching" going on in my right shoulder. I can feel it, it's on the way down, and it seems like I can hear it, but I'm not sure. I don't know what it is, but I don't suppose it's good. It doesn't really feel good either lol.
I don't seem to have a problem with incline or straight up dumbell presses. I wonder if it's the angle of the Smith machine?
If it hurts then dont do em Rip. I make sure to position myself so the when the bar comes down it almost touches my nose when it goes past it. I like to get as far under the bar as i can. It takes a little while and some fiddiling to get it set up right.
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So I've been trying to do the Smith machine presses for the last couple of weeks, with a slight incline on the bench. Whenever I do them, there is some "crunching" going on in my right shoulder. I can feel it, it's on the way down, and it seems like I can hear it, but I'm not sure. I don't know what it is, but I don't suppose it's good. It doesn't really feel good either lol.
I don't seem to have a problem with incline or straight up dumbell presses. I wonder if it's the angle of the Smith machine?
Ha! Gets Worse! Just Wait. It sounds like the chiroprators room when I roll out of bed in the AM!
DBs give a lot more free ROM. Some very strong PLers NEVER do a unshirted Full ROM rep close to they max.
They work off Boards on chest almost exclusivly for the actual Bench Presse's they train. Meets only for Full ROM.
U Cant pick up a new set of shoulders @ Wal-Mart.
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No more Smith machine presses, at least not until after the bench meet in February. Probably no more shoulder presses, just incline DBs. No need to risk injury.
:)
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No more Smith machine presses, at least not until after the bench meet in February. Probably no more shoulder presses, just incline DBs. No need to risk injury.
:)
Yes, definately be carefull especially when dealing with shoulders. For now, you may be better off going a tad light and doing your presses on the shoulder hammer strength machine or machine press.
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Dumbell Presses - 25 x 20 warmup, 45 x 11, 45 x 9, 50 x 7
Dumbell Lateral Raises - straight arms, 12 pounds, 4 sets. Two were supersets with 5 pound dumbells on the rears.
Front Raises - two supersets, 12 pound dumbell alternating, 15 pound bodybar with back against the wall
Upright Rows - 2 sets Ez bar plus 30 for 15, 2 sets ez bar plus 35 for 12
Shrugs - 3 sets with 45 pound plates
Reverse Pec deck - 3 sets
Thanks Rip...did this workout today. I had to laugh because I was carrying the printout around the gym w/me and referring to it from time to time and a guy goes, "Whose workout is that?" And I said "ripitupbaby's." He was like "Who?" lol ;D
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Thanks Rip...did this workout today. I had to laugh because I was carrying the printout around the gym w/me and referring to it from time to time and a guy goes, "Whose workout is that?" And I said "ripitupbaby's." He was like "Who?" lol ;D
WHAT? He hasn't heard of "ripitupbaby"?? WTF!! WHERE has he been?!?
;D
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WHAT? He hasn't heard of "ripitupbaby"?? WTF!! WHERE has he been?!?
;D
;D
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I haven't been doing specific shoulder workouts lately. I've incorporated some shoulder training into my chest workouts so that I don't overtrain them, and it seems to be working out pretty well.
On my heavy chest days, I do negatives on the bench press. Until I did these, I had no idea how much they FRY the fronts of my shoulders. :o
On other chest days, once a week, I do three sets of dumbell laterals, three sets of dumbell front raises, and three sets of rear delts on the pec deck (reverse). It seems to be more than adequate for shoulder training.
I have seen some improvements in my strength and am up to 25 pounds on the DB lateral raises, sets of 8-10. 8)
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In the shirt - avoid resit the negative. Waste of pressing energy.
"The faster down, the faster up" Louie Simmons.
Hes right, bring it down fast and you may even need row it down the final inches for a touch.
Then explode.
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In the shirt - avoid resit the negative. Waste of pressing energy.
"The faster down, the faster up" Louie Simmons.
Hes right, bring it down fast and you may even need row it down the final inches for a touch.
Then explode.
Gotcha. Things will change when I start using the shirt. And there will be little to no additional shoulder work when I get a little closer to the meet.
:)
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Well today was delts and traps for me. I really enjoy training delts, I really think they have the most impact for your physique.
Well I wanted to do front presses in the smith machine but some dude was there doing a marathon chest thing. We have 4 smith machines in our gym but one the flex one is not good for presses as the bar travels at an angle. The other one I just never use for some reason? The other two are the same Icarian I think. The guy was on one and the other one someone had a decline bench in there and lots of weights on the bar and I did not feel like tearing it apart so I decided to do a different workout. Probally good those circumstances pushed me to do a fairly different work out than normal.
So I started with....
Seated DB lateral raises 6x12-20 The heaviest i went was 35lbs for 2 of the sets at the end with a drop set to finish. I have never seen the need to use heavy weights on laterals. See people heaving 50+ around and not growing.
DB Rear laterals on 45 degree bench 5X10-12 25 lbs was plenty for these.
Smith front presses super seated with DB front raise 6x8-15 This had me pushing hard. I was pre exhausted from the first 2 exercises and this felt great! I still was able to push some pretty good weight to my suprise. Front raises used 25's
Then shrugs in smith machine 5X12-15 and DB 2x15
30 Min's on the elliptical and off to eat a couple big cheese burgers :D
This is going to be a good gaining season!! It feels like i have learned a lot about how to train in the last couple years and feel very in touch about what I need now. I think I will make my best gains this comming year.
I will compare this pic next summer with how I am then.
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You are still looking lean and mean Luv Baby. 8)
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You are still looking lean and mean Luv Baby. 8)
Well thanks sweetie :)
Gonna try and stay within 15 lbs of my comp weight this winter. That should be plenty to grow on. That training belt will not get to only 5 holes showing ;D
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thats a solid gun right there luv
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thats a solid gun right there luv
Thanks DP! I worked hard all summer to try and bring my back and arms up. Tried some new things and I made some progress, Im still working hard to make them better and they will be :)
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All time best for me this wk on DB shoulder press...well, in terms of actual weight maybe not, but in my mind it's my best.
Last spring my best was 110lb DB's for 9reps and my form was not as tight as it is now...too much momentum IMO. I weighed 230+ then, so that is obviously not that impressive of a lift IMO.
This wk, weighing 208lbs DB press 100lb DB's for 8 with perfect form IMO
Anyway, I've always struggled with my shoulder training...it's my least favorite bodypart to train, probably because it is my weekest by far in terms of strength. Anyway, I'm happy with this lift for now, even so, based on what I can press with the BB or what I can press on chest lifts I feel it should be higher then this, but like I said, I'll take whatever I can get, lol!
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All time best for me this wk on DB shoulder press...well, in terms of actual weight maybe not, but in my mind it's my best.
Last spring my best was 110lb DB's for 9reps and my form was not as tight as it is now...too much momentum IMO. I weighed 230+ then, so that is obviously not that impressive of a lift IMO.
This wk, weighing 208lbs DB press 100lb DB's for 8 with perfect form IMO
Anyway, I've always struggled with my shoulder training...it's my least favorite bodypart to train, probably because it is my weekest by far in terms of strength. Anyway, I'm happy with this lift for now, even so, based on what I can press with the BB or what I can press on chest lifts I feel it should be higher then this, but like I said, I'll take whatever I can get, lol!
That sounds great man! The worst part is getting the bigger DBs into position. If Im gonna get hurt it will usually be kicking up the DBs, hard on the back cause you have to kind of twist a little to get that 2nd DB up. So I do these with some trepidation even though I know they are the best excersise for putting the size on the delts IME.
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That sounds great man! The worst part is getting the bigger DBs into position. If Im gonna get hurt it will usually be kicking up the DBs, hard on the back cause you have to kind of twist a little to get that 2nd DB up. So I do these with some trepidation even though I know they are the best excersise for putting the size on the delts IME.
Agreed, that is the worst part. That's why having a good partner is a fantastic thing...having someone hand them to you is invaluable IMO. Unfortunately, I've been flying solo a good bit lately, I can always find a decent spotter when I need one, but if it's not someone who is a regular training partner I don't ask them to hand the DB's to me...all I want is the 2nd one handed to me, but for some reason this is a task many can't seem to figure out how to do, lol!
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Try them Db hooks, I forget the name. Saves the work of cleaning them.
WOrks great. ;) Powerhooks?
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Try them Db hooks, I forget the name. Saves the work of cleaning them.
WOrks great. ;) Powerhooks?
Yeah I think I posted a link to them in this thread and they are a great idea. Having to hand them to someone sucks, its very akward. If you have a partner who you are doing them with I guess its better, but still hard for both people. And yes i would never ask an aquaintence to do it either cause just having to lift them from the ground to hand off is an injury waiting to happen, cause you cant hold them right and you have to lift it kind of high.
http://www.fitstep.com/fitness-equipment-reviews/equipment-reviews/power-hooks-review.htm
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Good for you AJ!
Definitely be careful with kicking them up....I tweeked my back a few years ago (doing deadlifts), and it was kicking up the DBs for presses the next day that finally put me over the edge. Just what Luv said happened...I twisted my back a little to get them up, and my back was already hurt (I was stupid to be working out in the first place), and that was it...my husband ended up carrying me out of the gym and dressing me the next morning and carrying me to the chiropractor. I was out of commission for about 8 weeks. :P
I've come to learn over the last few months that a good spotter is worth his/her weight in gold. 8)
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I've come to learn over the last few months that a good spotter is worth his/her weight in gold. 8)
No doubt!
This was several years ago, but I was doing squats one day alone and on my last set I asked some random guy to spot me...I asked if he knew how to spot and he assured me it was no problem. Well, I got a handfull of reps just fine, can't remember how many, but on my last one, I got stuck in the hole...I couldn't budge at all. What did my spotter do? He stood there looking at me until I crashed...a lot of help he was, lol!
Needless to say, I've never asked a stranger for a spot since then.
Good for you AJ!
Awesome, I got "ripitupbaby" approval ;D
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No doubt!
This was several years ago, but I was doing squats one day alone and on my last set I asked some random guy to spot me...I asked if he knew how to spot and he assured me it was no problem. Well, I got a handfull of reps just fine, can't remember how many, but on my last one, I got stuck in the hole...I couldn't budge at all. What did my spotter do? He stood there looking at me until I crashed...a lot of help he was, lol!
Needless to say, I've never asked a stranger for a spot since then.
Awesome, I got "ripitupbaby" approval ;D
I trained alone for three months this fall, and it was while I was trying to figure out this bench press training. I have sooo many stories about bad spotters. One time, I had to ask a guy to spot me on heavy negatives.........and then I had to explain to him what a negative is. ::)