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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: lubawyb612 on August 21, 2007, 05:03:11 PM
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Since I began lifting about 5 years ago I always felt my chest was lagging behind the rest of my body. Over the past two years Ive made a lot of progress as far as strength in my chest movements but have not seen much of an improvement in the fullness of my chest. Ive tried everything that I can think of and now Im just seeking some outside advice. I started posting my workouts in the training logs recently under "B's Loggg." This is a decent sampling of what my workouts have been over the past couple years. One last comment. I dont know why but I was brainstorming while I was in the shower today about what my problem could be. I thought to myself I have pretty much always started my week with Chest after a day or two off. I cant remember if I ever had my Chest workouts positioned in my split so that I had the days off immediately following my chest day. In other words Im almost always in the gym following my chest day. Could this inhibit proper recovery?
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Chicks talking about chest workouts is hot...
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=164179.0
Same question as you:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=157638.0
More suggestions:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=149356.0
there is more out there... try a search
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too many guys get all paranoid and caught up with this muscle's workout interfering with that muscle, training this muscle after a day of rest, before a day of rest and on and on and on, problem is that you get to the point where you're just overthinking it, just don't over rely on too many pressing movements, too low a rep scheme, try out different rep patterns and ADD IN DB AND MACHINE FLYES, too many people these days are caught up in the whole Ronnie Coleman type of chest training doing all heavy pressing movements but heavy flyes are at least as important if not more so because they train the pecs in the way they were designed to work by drawing the hands in and across your torso, do two pressing movements and two flye movements and like Pumpster always says experiment with different rep ranges and spend a lot of time in that 8-12 rep range, i really like 6's and 8's too.
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Chicks talking about chest workouts is hot...
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=164179.0
Same question as you:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=157638.0
More suggestions:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=149356.0
there is more out there... try a search
yeah thanks...I did nothing but searches for the first three months on this site before ever making a post. Im just trying to get some feedback more specific to me. Everyone is different. Advice for one person wont work for others.
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yeah thanks...I did nothing but searches for the first three months on this site before ever making a post. Im just trying to get some feedback more specific to me. Everyone is different. Advice for one person wont work for others.
then i agree with SF, start your chest workout with dumbbell flies... i know what you're thinking: "that will reduce my bench press!!!"
who cares... if you've never tried it, do it.
it's like that seinfeld episode where george has the chicken salad instead of tuna...
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too many guys get all paranoid and caught up with this muscle's workout interfering with that muscle, training this muscle after a day of rest, before a day of rest and on and on and on, problem is that you get to the point where you're just overthinking it, just don't over rely on too many pressing movements, too low a rep scheme, try out different rep patterns and ADD IN DB AND MACHINE FLYES, too many people these days are caught up in the whole Ronnie Coleman type of chest training doing all heavy pressing movements but heavy flyes are at least as important if not more so because they train the pecs in the way they were designed to work by drawing the hands in and across your torso, do two pressing movements and two flye movements and like Pumpster always says experiment with different rep ranges and spend a lot of time in that 8-12 rep range, i really like 6's and 8's too.
Yeah Ive actually never been caught up too much on my split and rest and all of that until just this morning when that thought popped into my head. I was thinking maybe I should be concerned but I guess not. In the past I have incorporated a lot of heavy flyes but have been off of them for a few weeks now. Ive been doing dips in place of them lately and Im not sure I love the change. Ill probably go back to the flyes next week. But thanx for taking the time to give me some advice!
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then i agree with SF, start your chest workout with dumbbell flies... i know what you're thinking: "that will reduce my bench press!!!"
who cares... if you've never tried it, do it.
it's like that seinfeld episode where george has the chicken salad instead of tuna...
I have used a lot of the pre-exhaust princple in the past. I loved the feel of it. Id use it for a couple months off and on. I didnt think it should be something you use all the time. Would you suggest using this on a permanent basis?
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nothing is permamnent... try it seriously for 3-6 months... if it works keep it until it stops working :)
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whats your chest routine like
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How much do you bench? You might find your answer right there.
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How much do you bench? You might find your answer right there.
QTF! I didn't actually start looking like I had a chest until I was rep'n the mid 300's easily. Sucks to hear that unless you're 5'5 and shredded.
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Try using the pec deck first, and really squeze the crap outa your chest, than go to bench, works like a charm ;) Use the machine that you can also do rear delts on, not the buterfly machine, to much stres on shoulders.
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whats your chest routine like
How much do you bench? You might find your answer right there.
like I said earlier Ive been posting my workouts in the Training Logs sections under "B's Loggg." Lately Ive been hittting 315 for 5 ish reps. About 2 months ago I got 365 for 4 reps which Id say is my personal best. Obviously nothing impressive but my chest doesnt look like it should IMO.
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If you actually bench that much, you should have a pretty impressive upper body.
I briefly looked at your log - your squat seems very low compared to your bench.
How much do you weigh, and how tall are you?
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Switch up your exercises.. do different exercises each workout. Do different angles like flat and incline bench/flys. I also like adding in pushups in my chest routine. Make sure your eating too. You wont make any gains without the right nutrition.
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If you actually bench that much, you should have a pretty impressive upper body.
I briefly looked at your log - your squat seems very low compared to your bench.
How much do you weigh, and how tall are you?
Yes I actually make these lifts. Yes my squat numbers are super low. I only started squating again about 3 weeks ago. I was told by a doctor to take considerable time away from squats. A few of my vertebrae had become compressed, not having the proper spacing. It was causing significant pain. It turned into about 8 months without squating to get everythng back to normal. So Im squating again and my numbers suck. I could care less...Im pain free.
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oh and Im 6'2" 240. Not sure of the %bf.
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If you actually bench that much, you should have a pretty impressive upper body.
I briefly looked at your log - your squat seems very low compared to your bench.
How much do you weigh, and how tall are you?
why would I lie about my bench yet still post shitty squats numbers....haha. Im not being a dick just thought it was funny.
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I don't know my bodyfat, but I know that I AM fat. Are you?
If not, I think some specialization might be a good idea. The main change I would make is to switch to dumbells for pressing - If you can bench that much but have an unimpressive chest, you are benching with your triceps. This isn't a bad thing, mind you, and I wouldn't try to change it. Instead, change to another main lift.
Anything where your arm crosses your chest will help. Flyes, crossovers, whatever you like.
Make sure your nutrition is on - you won't improve anything if you are not eating properly.
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I don't know my bodyfat, but I know that I AM fat. Are you?
If not, I think some specialization might be a good idea. The main change I would make is to switch to dumbells for pressing - If you can bench that much but have an unimpressive chest, you are benching with your triceps. This isn't a bad thing, mind you, and I wouldn't try to change it. Instead, change to another main lift.
Anything where your arm crosses your chest will help. Flyes, crossovers, whatever you like.
Make sure your nutrition is on - you won't improve anything if you are not eating properly.
I already incorporate a lot of DB work. When I do Flat DB presses my last set will make use of up to 125 lbs DB's and DB Flyes with 75s. And no I am not fat. I wouldnt call myself shredded at all but "tits" covering my chest isn't my problem. The middle of my chest doesn't seem to want to fill it,especially around the bottom half of my chest.
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I already incorporate a lot of DB work. When I do Flat DB presses my last set will make use of up to 125 lbs DB's and DB Flyes with 75s. And no I am not fat. I wouldnt call myself shredded at all but "tits" covering my chest isn't my problem. The middle of my chest doesn't seem to want to fill it,especially around the bottom half of my chest.
after reading all your posts i have one more question: how long have you been lifting? for some people it can take years for certain bodyparts to come into their own.
do you have a gym diary? have you tried switching to bery high reps (15-25) for a month or more on all chest exercises/sets?
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after reading all your posts i have one more question: how long have you been lifting? for some people it can take years for certain bodyparts to come into their own.
do you have a gym diary? have you tried switching to bery high reps (15-25) for a month or more on all chest exercises/sets?
Ive been lifting for about 6 or 7 years now. No Ive never tried 15-25 reps. Ive used a 12-15 rep range a lot. Never heard of using anything higher than that. I guess I could give that a try. Would you suggest your first set at 25 reps and work your way down to 15 reps by my last set? Any suggestions how to work that? As far as the gym diary what you see on my posts in my log section is about all I have. Ive always kept track of things in my head. I know what everyone will say "your memory wont serve you very well." Well I can easily remember every weight and rep count for at least a week. Oh well. Thanks!
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I already incorporate a lot of DB work. When I do Flat DB presses my last set will make use of up to 125 lbs DB's and DB Flyes with 75s. And no I am not fat. I wouldnt call myself shredded at all but "tits" covering my chest isn't my problem. The middle of my chest doesn't seem to want to fill it,especially around the bottom half of my chest.
That's more genetics than anything else.
Sounds to me like you have everything down. Keep at it. If you are getting bigger and getting stronger, your chest will catch up.
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Ive been lifting for about 6 or 7 years now. No Ive never tried 15-25 reps. Ive used a 12-15 rep range a lot. Never heard of using anything higher than that. I guess I could give that a try. Would you suggest your first set at 25 reps and work your way down to 15 reps by my last set? Any suggestions how to work that? As far as the gym diary what you see on my posts in my log section is about all I have. Ive always kept track of things in my head. I know what everyone will say "your memory wont serve you very well." Well I can easily remember every weight and rep count for at least a week. Oh well. Thanks!
i'm not suggesting that you do anything in particular... but what if you stopped pressing for 2 months... only do fly and machine fly movements, with maybe 4 sets of pressing at the end of your chest workout, start with 25 reps and work down to 15 for the last set
as for a diary, i do not carry anything around with me at the gym, i do it when i get out and use it as a motivational tool.
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i'm not suggesting that you do anything in particular... but what if you stopped pressing for 2 months... only do fly and machine fly movements, with maybe 4 sets of pressing at the end of your chest workout, start with 25 reps and work down to 15 for the last set
as for a diary, i do not carry anything around with me at the gym, i do it when i get out and use it as a motivational tool.
yeah Im going think about this a little bit tonight. Tomorrow is chest so Ill probably try out a few things. Ill let you know what I come up with.
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So I tried a little of the pre-exhaust tonight as some of you suggested. Here is how the workout went....
DB Flat Flyes 65s x10 70s x10 75s x8
BB Flat Bench Press 185x12 225x10 275x8 315x8
BB Incline Bench Press 185x10 225x8 275x6
DB Flat Press 85s X 10 95s X 8 105sX7
Pec Deck 120x10 130x9 130x8
So tonight after first doing DB flyes I was able to get a few more reps on my last set of bench press in comparison to my last few weeks. Not sure if this is bc I started taking creatine again last week after being off of it for the last 2 months. I dont remember the last time I used pre-exhasut for chest but I figured my reps on bench would drop significantly here? Was I dead wrong for thinking this?
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well you only did 3 sets of flies... they may just have acted as a warm up
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well you only did 3 sets of flies... they may just have acted as a warm up
so do 4 sets of flyes?
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do what you feel...
i had suggested that you only do 4 sets of presses at the very end of your workout.... everything else could be a fly or pull over movement
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i had suggested that you only do 4 sets of presses at the very end of your workout.... everything else could be a fly or pull over movement
I might try to hit chest Friday again b4 I leave for vacation on Saturday. My other vacation this summer I joined a gym for the week but I think Im taking this week off. So Im going to give this suggestion a try and see how it feels. Thanx guys...
When you say a mostly fly motion workout with 4 sets of presses at the end....what would you suggest?
how about....
4 sets of DB Flat Flyes
4 sets of DB Incline Flyes
3 sets of High-Pulley Crossover
3 sets of Pec Deck
4 sets of BB Incline Press
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Simple answer to all this: you don't have pec genetics...
Kind of obvious I would think...you benching all that weight and working out for 5 years, you should know by now. Can't change genetics, deal with it...
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From personal experience: Check your diet
Training: Keep your pressing movements going but you should really try and keep those shoulders blades together (if you aren't) to put that stretch on the chest and pull the delts out a bit. I know many big guys who can throw up big weight but they are all front delts and it shows in their build.
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Since I began lifting about 5 years ago I always felt my chest was lagging behind the rest of my body. Over the past two years Ive made a lot of progress as far as strength in my chest movements but have not seen much of an improvement in the fullness of my chest. Ive tried everything that I can think of and now Im just seeking some outside advice. I started posting my workouts in the training logs recently under "B's Loggg." This is a decent sampling of what my workouts have been over the past couple years. One last comment. I dont know why but I was brainstorming while I was in the shower today about what my problem could be. I thought to myself I have pretty much always started my week with Chest after a day or two off. I cant remember if I ever had my Chest workouts positioned in my split so that I had the days off immediately following my chest day. In other words Im almost always in the gym following my chest day. Could this inhibit proper recovery?
Pile on the PLates for very short end of range motion and simply hold up as much as you can stand at lock out.
Great benchers DONT NEED GREAT Pec's ;).
Just support as much as you can and contract chest till it burns. Keep > the LBS.
This will quickly add thickness, but for aesthetics, you'll need flys, Incs, Declines or dips, pullovers etc.
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Simple answer to all this: you don't have pec genetics...
Kind of obvious I would think...you benching all that weight and working out for 5 years, you should know by now. Can't change genetics, deal with it...
wow nice attitude...so in your eyes I should quit trying to improve my chest just bc I have poor genetics. No shit I have poor genetics. Doesnt mean I cant make progress.
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wow nice attitude...so in your eyes I should quit trying to improve my chest just bc I have poor genetics. No shit I have poor genetics. Doesnt mean I cant make progress.
You can make progress. I had NO chest. Now its thick. Pile on the plate on the bar and just hold it.
Get used to more and more onyour bench. You want 220 them 310.. I WILL bench 405 in time ;)
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From personal experience: Check your diet
Im def going to start being more precise with my diet. I started logging my food today. Going to up my protein and reduce cals a bit. Try to lean up a little bit to see if that brings out my chest a little more.
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Im def going to start being more precise with my diet. I started logging my food today. Going to up my protein and reduce cals a bit. Try to lean up a little bit to see if that brings out my chest a little more.
Plus, you may find that your calorie expenditure is too great for what you are taking in. A good workout and a good amount of protein should help.
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Jeez Louise, the guy has been training for years and his chest hasn't reacted to the training; bad genetics, what's so difficult to understand about that?
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Jeez Louise, the guy has been training for years and his chest hasn't reacted to the training; bad genetics, what's so difficult to understand about that?
yeah...we've established this already. Just because I have bad genetics doesn't mean that there isn't room to improve. Whats your deal man. How are you helping anything by repeating that I have bad genetics? If everyone quit just because of a small obstacle, like bad genetics, where the hell would we be? That is the worst kind of attitude.
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yeah...we've established this already. Just because I have bad genetics doesn't mean that there isn't room to improve. Whats your deal man. How are you helping anything by repeating that I have bad genetics? If everyone quit just because of a small obstacle, like bad genetics, where the hell would we be? That is the worst kind of attitude.
Get the poundage up. What do you bench?
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Get the poundage up. What do you bench?
right now my last set is at 315 in the 5-7 rep range. Earlier this summer when I was doing some different things my last set was at 355 for the same reps
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yeah...we've established this already. Just because I have bad genetics doesn't mean that there isn't room to improve. Whats your deal man. How are you helping anything by repeating that I have bad genetics? If everyone quit just because of a small obstacle, like bad genetics, where the hell would we be? That is the worst kind of attitude.
piss on the negatives
set a goal for yourself
post a picture on the training log board of your chest today
then post a new training and nutritional plan
then repost a picture in 3 months, 6 months, 9 months, 1year... it takes time to improve, but if you follow up at intervals I bet we will all see the changes
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Weight seriously isn't everything with chest IMO. You need to bench to focus on chest more than delts, which most don't. I see guys with no chest throwing up big weight (315+) with a bounce at the bottom or partial reps. Doing your chest reps like Dorian Yates should ensure growth within your natural limitations.
Edit: How about weighted dips? How is your hand spacing? Elbow angles can add stress to delts and take it away from chest.
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right now my last set is at 315 in the 5-7 rep range. Earlier this summer when I was doing some different things my last set was at 355 for the same reps
Yeah Caps right, thats plenty of plate to grow some beef, that aint the issue.
Do you get a deep searing burn inthe chest anyway you can?
Thats the key to finding a movment thet hits the spot your tryin to hit. ANd the standard movments that work for 99% of population may not do it.
I took me Years to find stuff thet made my anterior delts grow, and it was by accident.
Same for my upper back, and Ive just learnt waht gets some results there.
Find that deep burn and copy it. You may find it unloading a boat, digging landscaping, whatever.
What your doing now is plenty heavy, you need hit a different way.
The fun of a trip is - Well,.. the trip itself, lookin out the window... ;)
Sometime the destination aint near as exciting as we'd thought.
If you can load that muscel just so, it will respond some. Not like Marcus, but it can change.
Are you eating enough?
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Do you get a deep searing burn inthe chest anyway you can?
Thats the key to finding a movment thet hits the spot your tryin to hit. ANd the standard movments that work for 99% of population may not do it.
I
I get the deepest burn from Incline BB Bench and I have been thinking of making it my first movement...eliminating Flat Bench...and adding flat and incline flyes
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I get the deepest burn from Incline BB Bench and I have been thinking of making it my first movement...eliminating Flat Bench...and adding flat and incline flyes
If it burns, its hittin it. dont be afraid to try odd stuff. Pullovers? Dips? Keep track of what cause a deep pain in the muscle. Add one at a time so you know.
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I get the deepest burn from Incline BB Bench and I have been thinking of making it my first movement...eliminating Flat Bench...and adding flat and incline flyes
as I have previously posted, I do exactly what you have outlined... I haven't done flat bench in over 5 years... I do incline bench, followed by flat DB press, etc
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yeah...we've established this already. Just because I have bad genetics doesn't mean that there isn't room to improve. Whats your deal man. How are you helping anything by repeating that I have bad genetics? If everyone quit just because of a small obstacle, like bad genetics, where the hell would we be? That is the worst kind of attitude.
I never suggested quitting but you may just have to make peace with certain things, or at least become less disgruntled.
Incidentally that is hardly what I would call a small obstacle.
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I never suggested quitting but you may just have to make peace with certain things, or at least become less disgruntled.
Incidentally that is hardly what I would call a small obstacle.
Im not disgruntled at all...not until someone brings a negative attitude when all Im trying to do is get some helpful information to progress. And if you think having bad chest genetics is a major obstacle in life...I feel horrible for you.
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Im not disgruntled at all...not until someone brings a negative attitude when all Im trying to do is get some helpful information to progress. And if you think having bad chest genetics is a major obstacle in life...I feel horrible for you.
You have misunderstood me; but take it from me; I have horrible genetics on virtually every body part, some worse than others. I work hard and do my best to make progress but I realise I will never be a massive animal. I used to be obsessed with bodybuilding but realising my limitations it didn't make sense to put so much time into it. There is a lot more to life than bb. My attitude is if I make gains I make them and if I don't I don't. I work hard and that's that.
I don't bench much but I can tell you what has helped me; proper technique. I use a very wide grip to ensure that the triceps aren't being worked too heavily and that my pecs are doing the work. I make sure that the bar touches my pecs, no half rep bouncing nonsense. Most of all I make sure that benching is a workout for the pectoralis and not the anterior delta, something many here have already mentioned. I have made good progress this way; try less weight with near perfect technique, maybe that will help. Anyway goodluck....
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Simple "Failure To Communicate" as in the Movie Cool Hand Luke... ;)