Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: donrhummy on September 11, 2007, 09:58:49 AM
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I think it should be the guy with the physique closest to perfection (in symmetry, proportion, shape, condition), the guy that you want to look like.
Who does NOT want to look like this?
(http://contests.ironmanmagazine.com/~photos/730/Men/RH9K3505.jpg)
Now...who does not want to look like this?
(http://contests.ironmanmagazine.com/~photos/730/Men/0D9F7545.jpg)
I choose Wolf's look.
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Me too.
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:)
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:)
Uh...sure but he doesn't look like that anymore. We're talking about current contenders, which Cormier is not (since he's not looking like that anymore).
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Man, Chris was perfect there.
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Given a choice to look like any of the top competitors no one would choose to look like Cutler. No one honestly would.
That tells you everything you need to know about the current state of bodybuilding judging.
How can the guy with the widest waist and poorest symmetry win the biggest show of the year?
It makes no sense whatsoever.
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:)
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im no expert but the first big white guy looks a lot better than the second big white guy
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Of all the physiques that have ever graced a pro stage, I would choose Shawn Ray over every single one of them as my ideal physique (but with my height of 5'10 of course!).
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Does anyone here think Jay looks better than this?
(http://contests.ironmanmagazine.com/~photos/730/Men/RH9K3505.jpg)
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Does anyone here think Jay looks better than this?
(http://contests.ironmanmagazine.com/~photos/730/Men/RH9K3505.jpg)
Its not a matter of aesthetics , from an aesthetics standpoint Jay does NOT come close to Wolf but there is other criteria that favors Jay.
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Its not a matter of aesthetics , from an aesthetics standpoint Jay does NOT come close to Wolf but there is other criteria that favors Jay.
ND, what's your opinion of Cutler?
Where does he fit in the Mr. Olympia pecking order?
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I think cutler worried so much about playing the mass game with coleman, he screwed up his physique. I think he looked phenomenal in 2001 and should've just kept doing what he did to attain that look. Im wondering if the judges will tell wolfe he needs to add more mass, and if he will just end up losing his athletics trying to chase bigger guys like cutler.
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ND, what's your opinion of Cutler?
Where does he fit in the Mr. Olympia pecking order?
I don't think he's Mr Olympia material , but thats from a personal preference from what wins contests these days he is , the introduction of better chemicals has shifted what use to win Olympias ( adequate size , great conditioning and aesthetics and balance ) the most size with the best conditioning for that size and everything else that follows
The drugs have made guys bigger yes , but obvious their conditioning has suffered for it , Ronnie is a perfect example when he was lighter he was hard as nails and bone dry , the bigger he got the most his conditioning suffered , as well as proportion & balance guys need to compete as heavy as possible in the process this destroys their balance , hence all the guts and oversized parts
What counts for symmetry now is if you can hold your gut in not if its small ' naturally ' and hey this is the sport and thats what wins contests if it right? who knows? it may not be...but ist what it is . and all that matters is how big you are and how good your conditioning is everything else takes a back seat
the advent of better drugs killed aesthetics in bodybuilding because guys can now be 300 pounds means they will be 300 pounds.
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I think cutler worried so much about playing the mass game with coleman, he screwed up his physique. I think he looked phenomenal in 2001 and should've just kept doing what he did to attain that look. Im wondering if the judges will tell wolfe he needs to add more mass, and if he will just end up losing his athletics trying to chase bigger guys like cutler.
You're right too because I recall a statement from Jay saying he's not going to play the size game with Ronnie , he's going to focus on being the best he can be , but he soon learned in order to beat Ronnie you have to be on equal ( or near as equal ) terms in size and have better conditioning
Ironically I read a quote from Ronnie saying he had NO intrest in becoming a 300 pound bodybuilder , he wants to stay at his best weight which was around 250 pounds , but in a dramatic way he won his first Olympias at around 250/257 pounds and he looked fantastic the best weight for his structure he almost lost in 2001 to a comparable ( size wise ) Cutler who had slightly better conditioning , 2002 he was small and paid the price at the Olympia and the Show of Strength then he started to play the size game
if you want to win the Mr Olympia in this day and age you better fore go aesthetics and get the absolute most mass you can while hopefully retaining ' great ' conditioning , Wolf could be the new king of the lesser shows while maintaining his current physique ( with improvements ) he doesn't have to go outside his physique but in order to win the biggest shows Arnold & Olympia he will be beaten by heavier guys
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Who the hell came up with the "symmetry" round anyway? People keep thinking "symmetry" instead of "proportions." Just because someone grows a gut doesn't mean he ruined his "symmetry." He ruined his proportions.
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Its not a matter of aesthetics , from an aesthetics standpoint Jay does NOT come close to Wolf but there is other criteria that favors Jay.
Such as?
Sure, his calves are better but his quads don't match. Yes, his back is bigger but his waist is wide as hell and his back isn't harder than Wolf's. He's really not bigger/thicker than Wolf except maybe in the pecs/back. When you compare them overall, Wolf wins.
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Who the hell came up with the "symmetry" round anyway? People keep thinking "symmetry" instead of "proportions." Just because someone grows a gut doesn't mean he ruined his "symmetry." He ruined his proportions.
All rounds are physique rounds , symmetry in the symmetry round is NOT judged as a separate entity hence why some smaller symmetrical guys never win the symmetry rounds
and symmetry is a broad term term it encompasses general right/left balance , proportion & balance between the muscle groups , overall structure , clavicle width , smallness of hips & waist , so having a gut does effect the symmetry or a least as portion of it .
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Such as?
Sure, his calves are better but his quads don't match. Yes, his back is bigger but his waist is wide as hell and his back isn't harder than Wolf's. He's really not bigger/thicker than Wolf except maybe in the pecs/back. When you compare them overall, Wolf wins.
The criteria from a symmetry standpoint that favors Jay is muscle balance & proportion between the groups , Wolf has high /smaller calves that lack proportion with his quads , higher lats and a slightly long torso , forearms in proportion to his biceps/triceps , but thats just one aspect of symmetry when Wolf has the clear advantage over Jay is clavicle width , naturally smaller waist & hips , smaller joints , so they both have strengths and weaknesses in the broad term of symmetry , where Jay moves beyond Wolf is size and conditioning at that size .
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I don't think Jay is the greatest ever and he doesn't look pretty but watch the video's. He is just too goddamm big, this is BODYBUILDING, the others (besides Ronnie) just cannot hang with him.
I remember watching the 2005 Mr.O, when Jay came out to pose i just thought no-one can top how fucking big he was but Coleman did and has better conditioning.
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I don't think Jay is the greatest ever and he doesn't look pretty but watch the video's. He is just too goddamm big, this is BODYBUILDING, the others (besides Ronnie) just cannot hang with him.
I remember watching the 2005 Mr.O, when Jay came out to pose i just thought no-one can top how fucking big he was but Coleman did and has better conditioning.
Right no one is claiming Jay's the best , and not even better than Ronnie at his prime just the better of the two in 2006 and if Jay comes in the same size with better conditioning than Ronnie he will beat Ronnie again.
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Does anyone here think Jay looks better than this?
(http://contests.ironmanmagazine.com/~photos/730/Men/RH9K3505.jpg)
THAT'S a Mr. O ... WITHOUT A DOUBT ! That pic will certainly motivate me for Tomorrow's Leg day ! ;)
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i would love to look like wolf but if i have to choose to look like cutler or wolf... seriously man - it's no competition! Cutler owns wolf from any angle! You will see at the Olympia how Wolf drops out of top6 so easily. Actually it's a kind of wonder if he even places top10!
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I am not a fan of Jay but he shoulddn't be judged against the past, he should be judged against the current standards
Dorian and Ronnie changed the rules to where size matters a lot. Jay just played the game by the rules
the biggest driest guy wins..with that said I really hope they change the rules back.
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Jay winning last year really give the IFBB a problem!
Jay still has a few years left in his prime and it would look weird to change the rules during his reign. For anyone to beat him they have to come in bigger and drier.
they can't transition to the young guns (heath, wolfe et al) with Jay winning
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All rounds are physique rounds , symmetry in the symmetry round is NOT judged as a separate entity hence why some smaller symmetrical guys never win the symmetry rounds
and symmetry is a broad term term it encompasses general right/left balance , proportion & balance between the muscle groups , overall structure , clavicle width , smallness of hips & waist , so having a gut does effect the symmetry or a least as portion of it .
how can "symmetry" be a broad term? its simple. if the left matches the right, if the top matches the bottom, then its symmetrical, as in a cross, a circle, a box, etc., otherwise its asymmetrical. you go on talking about proportion and balance, well guess what? they're proportion and balance, NOT symmetry.
when it comes to a human being, symmetry is only measured horizontally, unless you're some kind of freak that has legs where your head's supposed to be.
back to my first question. who came up with the term symmetry round? 'cause it sounds really stupid. they should call it the aesthetics round instead. it's more fitting.
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how can "symmetry" be a broad term? its simple. if the left matches the right, if the top matches the bottom, then its symmetrical, as in a cross, a circle, a box, etc., otherwise its asymmetrical. you go on talking about proportion and balance, well guess what? they're proportion and balance, NOT symmetry.
when it comes to a human being, symmetry is only measured horizontally, unless you're some kind of freak that has legs where your head's supposed to be.
back to my first question. who came up with the term symmetry round? 'cause it sounds really stupid. they should call it the aesthetics round instead. it's more fitting.
No this is where you're wrong symmetry IN THE BODYBUILDING CONTEXT includes clavicle width , narrowness of the hips & waist and balance & proportion and length of torso and limbs and to a smaller extent right/left exactness to an extent , NOTHING in nature is exact in terms of true symmetry right/left exactness so don't use this as the definition , symmetry in bodybuilding encompasses all of the above
And all rounds are physique rounds , symmetry & muscularity are NOT judged as separate entities in the giving rounds , the same holds true for posing rounds and historically the most ' symmetrical guy ' doesn't win the symmetry round because specifically its not judged as a separate entity , they judges will not reward a guy who has great symmetry but lags behind in terms of size & conditioning , same holds true for a guy who has great size but no conditioning and poor balance , the winner more often than not wins because he is the best overall package of size , symmetry , conditioning and posing .
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The criteria from a symmetry standpoint that favors Jay is muscle balance & proportion between the groups , Wolf has high /smaller calves that lack proportion with his quads , higher lats and a slightly long torso , forearms in proportion to his biceps/triceps , but thats just one aspect of symmetry when Wolf has the clear advantage over Jay is clavicle width , naturally smaller waist & hips , smaller joints , so they both have strengths and weaknesses in the broad term of symmetry , where Jay moves beyond Wolf is size and conditioning at that size .
You forgot that Jay now has a gut as well. That, in my book, is a HUGE minus.
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I am not a fan of Jay but he shoulddn't be judged against the past, he should be judged against the current standards
Dorian and Ronnie changed the rules to where size matters a lot. Jay just played the game by the rules
the biggest driest guy wins..with that said I really hope they change the rules back.
I disagree with this. I think he should be judged against what we as fans think are the proper standards for BB. And from the conversations on here, very few people think Jay is the closest to those standards. I'd bet that more people here would want to look like Wolf than like Jay.
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You forgot that Jay now has a gut as well. That, in my book, is a HUGE minus.
NO I didn't forget he has a gut I actually referred to that in one of my posts .
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I think it should be the guy with the physique closest to perfection (in symmetry, proportion, shape, condition), the guy that you want to look like.
Who does NOT want to look like this?
(http://contests.ironmanmagazine.com/~photos/730/Men/RH9K3505.jpg)
Now...who does not want to look like this?
(http://contests.ironmanmagazine.com/~photos/730/Men/0D9F7545.jpg)
I choose Wolf's look.
It doesn't matter who I choose, but it's apparent both of these two choose the same hair stylist at BoRics.
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It doesn't matter who I choose, but it's apparent both of these two choose the same hair stylist at BoRics.
hahahahahaha