Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Nutrition, Products & Supplements Info => Topic started by: Tkeeze on November 25, 2007, 08:02:39 PM
-
I started taking 3 ZMA caps prior to bed along with 2 BCAA caps. I can't believe the deep sleep I'm getting...not to mention the weird dreams. No complaints...just wondering why ZMA has this effect.
Any ideas?
T
-
have no idea why magnesium would affect dreams, it could have something to do with the serotonin interaction of the B6, but magnesium is slightly anxiolytic with muscle relaxing properties, hence the improved sleep.
the dreams may be a myth to be honest.
its just zinc magnesium and b6, nothing special. citrate might be a better choice of magnesium as it is absorbed better but has laxative effects.
-
ZMA always made me have extremely vivid dreams, to the point I stopped taking it. I did get a really deep sleep on it and sometimes when I have an extremely intense workout I'll take some so i can get to sleep, but I normally don't use it.
-
I get crazy ass dreams but feel refreshed and awake in the morning...telling me that I was in a deep, deep sleep. I sleep light as it is and wake up easy in the night so ZMA really helps chase the boogie man away!
I have read it is the magnesium that relaxes and puts you in that state....something to do with the aspartate it is bound to?!? Could be out on a limb on that one as it was a while since reading that. All I know is I sleep deep and recover better when I am sleeping well..
-
have no idea why magnesium would affect dreams, it could have something to do with the serotonin interaction of the B6, but magnesium is slightly anxiolytic with muscle relaxing properties, hence the improved sleep.
the dreams may be a myth to be honest.
its just zinc magnesium and b6, nothing special. citrate might be a better choice of magnesium as it is absorbed better but has laxative effects.
usmokepole,
Just out of curiousity, why do you say the dreams may be a myth?
I get the same effect from taking pure GABA in a glass of water, on an empty stomach before bedtime. I get a better night sleep, very vivid, weird dreams, and in the morning I feel very refreshed. What do you make of that?
-
ZMA always made me have extremely vivid dreams, to the point I stopped taking it. I did get a really deep sleep on it and sometimes when I have an extremely intense workout I'll take some so i can get to sleep, but I normally don't use it.
The dreams I got from ZMA was also the reason I stopped using it.
Intense, vivid and upsetting.
-
Deepnights sleep sound good.
Why wer /are u taking ZMA in the 1st place??
davie
-
Deepnights sleep sound good.
Why wer /are u taking ZMA in the 1st place??
davie
Just for testosterone support.
T
-
usmokepole,
Just out of curiousity, why do you say the dreams may be a myth?
I get the same effect from taking pure GABA in a glass of water, on an empty stomach before bedtime. I get a better night sleep, very vivid, weird dreams, and in the morning I feel very refreshed. What do you make of that?
since gaba is an inhibitory amino acid/neurotransmitter that doesnt cross the blood brain barrier i cannot explain it other then placebo. dream states are usually related to serotonin, with gaba decreasing dreams in most cases because it fucks up your sleep architecture(the stages). gaba may be good for sleep, but its effects are mostly preripheral, so dreaming should not be an issue.
or,there are gaba receptors thoughtout the body, so you may feel relaxed allowing you to get a deeper sleep without impairing CNS activity. that could allow you to get more REM sleep and dream a little more.
-
I started taking 3 ZMA caps prior to bed along with 2 BCAA caps. I can't believe the deep sleep I'm getting...not to mention the weird dreams. No complaints...just wondering why ZMA has this effect.
Any ideas?
T
This has been beaten to death...and then some.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
have no idea why magnesium would affect dreams, it could have something to do with the serotonin interaction of the B6, but magnesium is slightly anxiolytic with muscle relaxing properties, hence the improved sleep.
the dreams may be a myth to be honest.
its just zinc magnesium and b6, nothing special. citrate might be a better choice of magnesium as it is absorbed better but has laxative effects.
No, the combo of Magnesium with B6 boosts the production of dopamine in the substantia nigra of the brain, resulting in increased dopamine levels in the pre-frontal cortex and nucleus accumbens. The "vivacity" of the dreams is related to this dopaminergic action and not to any indolaminergic interaction it might have.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
No, the combo of Magnesium with B6 boosts the production of dopamine in the substantia nigra of the brain, resulting in increased dopamine levels in the pre-frontal cortex and nucleus accumbens. The "vivacity" of the dreams is related to this dopaminergic action and not to any indolaminergic interaction it might have.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
that would have a stimulating effect on the person. increasing catecholamines causes energy. just look at wellbutrin. have any articles on magnesium causes any noticeable effects on dopaminergic pathways?
would be interesting if that was the case.
i honestly think its do to the muscle relaxing properties, allowing one to get more comfortable and achieve a deeper sleep, there is also some cns sedation involved.
-
that would have a stimulating effect on the person. increasing catecholamines causes energy. just look at wellbutrin. have any articles on magnesium causes any noticeable effects on dopaminergic pathways?
would be interesting if that was the case.
i honestly think its do to the muscle relaxing properties, allowing one to get more comfortable and achieve a deeper sleep, there is also some cns sedation involved.
No, Magnesium boosts dopamine function. In experiences with rats, feeding them a diet rich in DL-phenylalanine but deficient in Magnesium caused brain depletion of dopamine levels while leaving other catecholamines, like norepinephrine and epinephrine, unaffected. You can search the web. As for why ZMA has a sedative effect is a mystery, because it does boost dopamine across the brain. One of the msot reported effects of taking ZMA is an increased sense of alertness and well-being in thre next day, and this is probably caused by dopaminergic effect.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
No, Magnesium boosts dopamine function. In experiences with rats, feeding them a diet rich in DL-phenylalanine but deficient in Magnesium caused brain depletion of dopamine levels while leaving other catecholamines, like norepinephrine and epinephrine, unaffected. You can search the web. As for why ZMA has a sedative effect is a mystery, because it does boost dopamine across the brain. One of the msot reported effects of taking ZMA is an increased sense of alertness and well-being in thre next day, and this is probably caused by dopaminergic effect.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
i didnt find dl-phenylalanine that effective for mood support, inositol was much better. but magnesium increasing dopamine does make a little more sense now that i think of the mood enhancing effects it has. but its a bit at odds with allowing one to sleep, it should be the opposite for the most part.
good post.
-
I had this same thing happen to me also...I took T3 ZMA from NxLabs...it was awesome....my dreams were vivid, realistic and I could remember every dsetail the next day...dreamed I was fighting an alien on Mars with a flame thrower and I swear it seemed I was right there...being engulfed by the fire...it was amazing....the colors were bright and I swore I was experiencing being in hell.....this stuff is a great hallucinigen...felt really fresh the next day...
-
I had the same thing, very vivid dreams in color.
One of my buddies turned me onto Iforce Secretagain, puts me into deep REM sleep without the dreams, same price as alot of the ZMA formulas....
Wake up rested and ready to rock and roll
-
So is ZMA better than other test increasing products suc as Tribex?
WHat ZMA brand are u guys using??
davie
-
So is ZMA better than other test increasing products suc as Tribex?
WHat ZMA brand are u guys using??
davie
Total differant products man...
ZMA= zinc magnesium aspartate. A study was done in the 90's that showed men who trained were dificient in zinc, a mineral that is used in test production. Taking ZMA showed they recovered from training much more efficently.
Trib (tribex)= raises LH, produced by our testes. Lutenizing Hormone production can also dip with age or after andogen use.
A good natural stack will be both Trib and ZMA at night.
Tribs, I like Controlled Labs Blue Up, Nutrex Vitrix
ZMA, all are the same, trademarked by SNAC systems. Dymatize Z-Force I like a bit better than other ZMAs.
-
Personally I was using the Twin Labs, very affordable and basically same ingredients as all the others...
-
Thanksmate,if u ad to choose and only take one which wud it b??
I was looking for a gud test booster that would help recovery and size increase.
And one that any u wudnt lose any benifits (eg size) if u stopped taking it?!
davie
-
Thanksmate,if u ad to choose and only take one which wud it b??
I was looking for a gud test booster that would help recovery and size increase.
And one that any u wudnt lose any benifits (eg size) if u stopped taking it?!
davie
You should not lose much if any size from natural test boosters. Just maybe some limp dick when you stop taking them. :o
Again, all ZMA's should be the same trademarked brand around $15-20 for 1 month.
Good Tribs will cost more. If you see a Trib @ $15, its crap. STick with the ones I mentioned above.
-
Kul....so lastly, u sed tribex was a natural test booster, wud ucall ZMA a natural test booster?
davie
-
yes...
-
do you have an evidence that it actually does increase natural test levels or articles about it...not trying to be a dick but i have heard and read a good amount that although they can there is no definite proof that they do...just wondering
-
do you have an evidence that it actually does increase natural test levels or articles about it...not trying to be a dick but i have heard and read a good amount that although they can there is no definite proof that they do...just wondering
There is no proof that any supplement does what is says. The ZMA study was done in the 90's by none other than Victor Conte (BALCO). I am sure I could dig it up somewhere. Tribs, good luck, there is a lot of ditch grown trib out there.
I go off a lot of practical application with supps. Meaning, try out the products and see what happens. Unfortunatly, my experience with supps is that sometimes that works best and I never get my hopes up so I dont get bummed if it does not work. Just another company making outrageous claims. I have a lot of friends in the industry so get a lot of supps free but I understand people dont have tons of money to blow on supps. Put it this way, I know some of the Tribs and ZMA work for me as my little guy is standing at attention most of the day or get aroused easy.
Plus, I know some older guys in their 40's who do not want HRT, take these products and feel much better in all areas where test is low. Meaning, their wives love them again, recovering better from exercise and not depressed.
-
thats good enough info i was just curious...i dont know ive tried a couple things here and there and have been disappointed from most....honest the only things that havent let me down is NO2 Black, ON Whey and Casein protien, and noxplod or super pump 250...other then that im so skeptical about other stuff....i gues my skepticism could keep them reaching full potential but i dont believe that...
-
Sucks but that is how the supplement game goes in my opinion. Hard not to get excited from an ad or article only to get dissapointed with the end result.
Example: Muscletech
-
yea its fuckin bullshit how ridiculous their claims can be and how drasticly unrealistic it is...i mean i know that there is a thing called flase advertising but they have their own "so called studies" with the results that may happen about in one out of a million fucking people..its fucking sickening....hey busy not to get off topic but you heard of NIOX by nutrex? any feedback you got from you and your friends with free samples..i really like MRI no2 black but it is just to expensive but Niox has a good profile and i was wondering about any feedback you may have??
-
I know u said taking bot tribex and ZMA would be best,but if u had to choose,which would u pik?
davie
-
So is ZMA better than other test increasing products suc as Tribex?
WHat ZMA brand are u guys using??
davie
No supplement boosts testosterone levels for as long as you're taking it. The saponins present in Tribulus Terrestris does cause a short burst of testosterone by increasing the release of luteinizing hormone from the brain, but stores of luteinizing hormone are quickly depleted and then tribulus ceases to raise testosterone.
The only thing that certifiably boosts testosterone levels - as well as GH, insulin and especially somatostatin-C - significantly and keeps it high for as long as you're doing it is eating a high calorie diet, especially one rich in saturated fats. Everything else is pseudo-science. The problem is that a high calorie diet speeds up the ageing process by increasing oxidative stress and saturated fat fucks up your cardiovascular system, so it's a double-edged sword. Make your choice. The best gains you'll ever have in your life will be while eating lots of foods laiden with saturated fats, like bacon, beef, pork and whole eggs.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
-
Couple products you guys might want to consider
ITRX by Max Muscle, ZMA blend with valerian root and melatonin (strong shit knocks me out even when Im jacked on ephedrine)
Meditropin by Craig Nutriceuticals (best GH product I've seen on the market)
These products are great for deep sleep and regeneration, and this coming from many many customers I've had buy use and give feedback on.
-
There is no proof that any supplement does what is says. The ZMA study was done in the 90's by none other than Victor Conte (BALCO). I am sure I could dig it up somewhere. Tribs, good luck, there is a lot of ditch grown trib out there.
I go off a lot of practical application with supps. Meaning, try out the products and see what happens. Unfortunatly, my experience with supps is that sometimes that works best and I never get my hopes up so I dont get bummed if it does not work. Just another company making outrageous claims. I have a lot of friends in the industry so get a lot of supps free but I understand people dont have tons of money to blow on supps. Put it this way, I know some of the Tribs and ZMA work for me as my little guy is standing at attention most of the day or get aroused easy.
Plus, I know some older guys in their 40's who do not want HRT, take these products and feel much better in all areas where test is low. Meaning, their wives love them again, recovering better from exercise and not depressed.
you dont have a sweet clue clue what your talking about. what supplements have no proof? seriously do some learning before you spout off.
for example search st jonhs wort AND depression, see how much research there is? most products have research. ala, rhodiola, creatine,lacctoferrin i could think of thousands.
-
you dont have a sweet clue clue what your talking about. what supplements have no proof? seriously do some learning before you spout off.
for example search st jonhs wort AND depression, see how much research there is? most products have research. ala, rhodiola, creatine,lacctoferrin i could think of thousands.
Easy there little guy....
I admit, bad wording on my part and you are right. Lots of studies on certain supps, agree with that. I should have said ZMA and TRIB studies, my bad but there are a majority of supps that are not tested.
Thank you soooo much for educating me, my day is complete now.
-
Easy there little guy....
I admit, bad wording on my part and you are right. Lots of studies on certain supps, agree with that. I should have said ZMA and TRIB studies, my bad but there are a majority of supps that are not tested.
Thank you soooo much for educating me, my day is complete now.
saponins have many effects at modulating hormones, many studies.
magnesium has tons of research
zinc has a ton.
would you like some?
go to pubmed and start reading.
-
since gaba is an inhibitory amino acid/neurotransmitter that doesnt cross the blood brain barrier i cannot explain it other then placebo. dream states are usually related to serotonin, with gaba decreasing dreams in most cases because it fucks up your sleep architecture(the stages). gaba may be good for sleep, but its effects are mostly preripheral, so dreaming should not be an issue.
or,there are gaba receptors thoughtout the body, so you may feel relaxed allowing you to get a deeper sleep without impairing CNS activity. that could allow you to get more REM sleep and dream a little more.
Thanks!