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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Eyeball Chambers on December 16, 2007, 03:55:37 PM
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If the United States was a corporation, Bush was CEO, and the American Citizens were share holders, would he have been replaced yet?
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No
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No
Even though he has built 9 Trillion dollars worth of debt for "our corporation"?
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Even though he has built 9 Trillion dollars worth of debt for "our corporation"?
He did? Or his board of directors (Congress) did? Congress controls the purse strings, just like a board of directors ultimately makes decisions and the president answers to the board.
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He did? Or his board of directors (Congress) did? Congress controls the purse strings, just like a board of directors ultimately makes decisions and the president answers to the board.
Well, Bush and Co. engineered the plans that ran us into debt, IMO. I think you're right though congress is just as guilty.
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He did? Or his board of directors (Congress) did? Congress controls the purse strings, just like a board of directors ultimately makes decisions and the president answers to the board.
both the board and the CEO would have been ousted in real life.
See, SMART people run the financial district and replace losers. SHEEP just do what they're told by their TV in terms of voting politics.
ALso, any other corp with 9 TRIL in debt would likely declare bankruptcy, as it's unreasonable to think it could recover and rebound. However, our unique corp has ability to steal, so that kinda levels the field.
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Well, Bush and Co. engineered the plans that ran us into debt, IMO. I think you're right though congress is just as guilty.
A lot of good happened on his watch too, but you rarely hear people talk about it these days.
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A lot of good happened on his watch too, but you rarely hear people talk about it these days.
I agree, I keep up with the news. I'm just afraid the bad things that have happened under his watch have seriously seriously hurt us, and that they out-weigh the good.
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A lot of good happened on his watch too, but you rarely hear people talk about it these days.
Like what?
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A lot of good happened on his watch too, but you rarely hear people talk about it these days.
List it.
We ousted a dictator that managed to control the streets of a now-lawless Iraq?
We ousted the Taliban, who had reduced the Afghan heroin trade to zero?
Please list the great accomplishmnets of hte last 7 years.
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Like what?
First, I am, like many Americans, better off today than I was in 2000. Aren't you? That's one indication.
Second, for your reading pleasure (up to 2004): http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1096125/posts
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both the board and the CEO would have been ousted in real life.
See, SMART people run the financial district and replace losers. SHEEP just do what they're told by their TV in terms of voting politics.
ALso, any other corp with 9 TRIL in debt would likely declare bankruptcy, as it's unreasonable to think it could recover and rebound. However, our unique corp has ability to steal, so that kinda levels the field.
No, they wouldn't have. Makes no sense. It is rare to have shareholders replace an entire board of directors. Also, shareholders don't replace officers. It's the board's job to do that. You generally need a certain amount of carryover. You need people with institutional knowledge. It often takes a board member an entire term just to figure out what he or she is doing.
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First, I am, like many Americans, better off today than I was in 2000. Aren't you? That's one indication.
Second, for your reading pleasure (up to 2004): http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1096125/posts
I frequent the Free Republic often.
Now for the list.
He's thrown a few sops to anti-abortionists but abortion is still legal. He's insulated teachers from accountability for going over the line punishing children. He's mixed religion with governmental funding just to score points with his base...fine.
There is little to discuss about his handling of the economy. His tax cuts ensure the fact that each american carries almost $40,000 of the national debt. The debt grew to 9 trillion dollars. He's tried to kill the most successful gov. program ever, social security, from day one.
He cut the funding for No Child Left Behind...his own program.
He's opened more park land to logging and mining interests than any other president in the history of our country.
The Afghanistan and Iraqi invasions were both illegal ventures in nation-building--something he swore never to do on the campaign trail.
He privatized many gov. functions resulting in billions lost to corruption/unaccountability/incompetence.
He undercut Medicare by removing the gov.'s ability to negotiate lower drug costs--Big Pharma. cleaned up. Not to mention he had the head medicare actuary lie under oath about the cost of his 'improvements'.
Homeland Security is an ineffectual joke.
There's so much more to this man: exposing WMD spies in a time of war just for political gain, spying on americans w/out a warrant, ordering torture,....and generally making the US a worldwide laughing stock, hypocrite and killer.
On the plus side, EGTRRA was good for retirement plans.
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If the United States was a corporation, Bush was CEO, and the American Citizens were share holders, would he have been replaced yet?
He never would have been hired.
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No, they wouldn't have. Makes no sense. It is rare to have shareholders replace an entire board of directors.
A firm loses 9 TRILLION dollars and the CEO and board wouldn't be removed?
Are you fvcking high?
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I frequent the Free Republic often.
Now for the list.
He's thrown a few sops to anti-abortionists but abortion is still legal. He's insulated teachers from accountability for going over the line punishing children. He's mixed religion with governmental funding just to score points with his base...fine.
There is little to discuss about his handling of the economy. His tax cuts ensure the fact that each american carries almost $40,000 of the national debt. The debt grew to 9 trillion dollars. He's tried to kill the most successful gov. program ever, social security, from day one.
He cut the funding for No Child Left Behind...his own program.
He's opened more park land to logging and mining interests than any other president in the history of our country.
The Afghanistan and Iraqi invasions were both illegal ventures in nation-building--something he swore never to do on the campaign trail.
He privatized many gov. functions resulting in billions lost to corruption/unaccountability/incompetence.
He undercut Medicare by removing the gov.'s ability to negotiate lower drug costs--Big Pharma. cleaned up. Not to mention he had the head medicare actuary lie under oath about the cost of his 'improvements'.
Homeland Security is an ineffectual joke.
There's so much more to this man: exposing WMD spies in a time of war just for political gain, spying on americans w/out a warrant, ordering torture,....and generally making the US a worldwide laughing stock, hypocrite and killer.
On the plus side, EGTRRA was good for retirement plans.
I take you it you don't like the list? :) I didn't count, but looks like there is somewhere between 50 to 100 items on the list.
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A firm loses 9 TRILLION dollars and the CEO and board wouldn't be removed?
Are you fvcking high?
[sigh] So I try and educate you on how shareholders, boards, and officers interact with each other and this is your response?? Ingrate.
No corporation in the history of the world has lost 9 trillion dollars. The people of the United States (the shareholders in this scenario) have not lost 9 trillion dollars. So, again, your hypothetical makes no sense.
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I take you it you don't like the list? :) I didn't count, but looks like there is somewhere between 50 to 100 items on the list.
I like the list just fine. But the Freepers spin things out of control to fit their prejudices.
If Bush were the CEO of the US Corp of America, I think he would be in trouble. The only legal goal of a corporation is to make money.
Bush has put the US in so much debt that that goal is not realized on a national level. He is not paying down the debt like Clinton did.
His economic nonsense has reintroduced the word "deficit" and the concept of "deficit spending" to our national discourse.
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I like the list just fine. But the Freepers spin things out of control to fit their prejudices.
If Bush were the CEO of the US Corp of America, I think he would be in trouble. The only legal goal of a corporation is to make money.
Bush has put the US in so much debt that that goal is not realized on a national level. He is not paying down the debt like Clinton did.
His economic nonsense has reintroduced the word "deficit" and the concept of "deficit spending" to our national discourse.
The primary goal of a corporation is to make money for it's shareholders. That's not the only goal. Others include customer/client service, taking care of its employees, and charitable contributions.
I doubt a board would author/authorize spending bills every year and then fire the CEO for carrying out their spending mandates. And the board would evaluate the CEO's entire performance. Many of the shareholders would also be very happy if they were making money (like a ton of Americans).
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[sigh] So I try and educate you on how shareholders, boards, and officers interact with each other and this is your response?? Ingrate.
Sorry Sam Walton.
No corporation in the history of the world has lost 9 trillion dollars. The people of the United States (the shareholders in this scenario) have not lost 9 trillion dollars. So, again, your hypothetical makes no sense.
Okay. Who owns the 9 tril debt?
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I'd have replace the Bastard before 9/11.
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The primary goal of a corporation is to make money for it's shareholders. That's not the only goal. Others include customer/client service, taking care of its employees, and charitable contributions.
No. THe goal is singular - maximize shareholder value.
the other things you listed might be methods employed to maximize shareholder value - IE: giving to charity will help its tax situation and be good community PR, keeping employees healthy means higher productivity, and cust service beacuse retention = profits.
But no, a goal of "giving back to a community" should be laughed out of the definition. You're likely middle mgmt and you are instructed to do these things so that the top level can sustain long term viability. In the real world, shareholders don't hold hands and give back a % of what they earn because it's the right thing to do. Dreamer.
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The primary goal of a corporation is to make money for it's shareholders. That's not the only goal. Others include customer/client service, taking care of its employees, and charitable contributions.
I doubt a board would author/authorize spending bills every year and then fire the CEO for carrying out their spending mandates. And the board would evaluate the CEO's entire performance. Many of the shareholders would also be very happy if they were making money (like a ton of Americans).
Those extra goals are all subordinate to making a buck--showing a profit. Why would you doubt that a board would fire it's CEO for incompetence? It happens all the time.
On a national basis, the US is losing money at a monstrous rate. The debt has increased by trillions under Bush. The country is not profitable.
Every single man, woman and child owes over $30,000 dollars to cover their cost of the debt. http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
And Bush's policies of pre-emptive unnecessary war, tax cuts and borrow and spend economics are responsible for inflating the debt.
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Sorry Sam Walton.
Okay. Who owns the 9 tril debt?
No problem Scott Peterson.
So now you've abandoned the contention that the hypothetical corporation lost 9 trillion and now you want to know who owns the purported 9 trillion? The answer is the corporation. Individual shareholders are generally not liable for the debts of the corporation. Next question?
What happens next is you change the facts (again) and ask another dumb question. I'm bracing myself . . . :)
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Those extra goals are all subordinate to making a buck--showing a profit. Why would you doubt that a board would fire it's CEO for incompetence? It happens all the time.
On a national basis, the US is losing money at a monstrous rate. The debt has increased by trillions under Bush. The country is not profitable.
Every single man, woman and child owes over $30,000 dollars to cover their cost of the debt. http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
And Bush's policies of pre-emptive unnecessary war, tax cuts and borrow and spend economics are responsible for inflating the debt.
That's actually what I said: the primary goal is profit for shareholders. But the other goals do exist and are part of any well run corporation.
What I didn't say was that a CEO would not be fired for incompetence. Where are you getting that from? What I've said is a CEO/president will not be fired for carrying out a board's mandates and the officer's entire performance would be evaluated. We just disagree on whether Bush was incompetent. He isn't. He has had a number of accomplishments during his presidency. A slew of Americans are better off under his watch. That's partly why we sent him back for a second term.
Are you better off today than you were in 2000?
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That's actually what I said: the primary goal is profit for shareholders. But the other goals do exist and are part of any well run corporation.
What I didn't say was that a CEO would not be fired for incompetence. Where are you getting that from? What I've said is a CEO/president will not be fired for carrying out a board's mandates and the officer's entire performance would be evaluated. We just disagree on whether Bush was incompetent. He isn't. He has had a number of accomplishments during his presidency. A slew of Americans are better off under his watch. That's partly why we sent him back for a second term.
Are you better off today than you were in 2000?
The only legal purpose of a corporation is to make a profit. All else is dicta...we could talk about a competent workforce or good coffee in the company kitchen too but those are not legal purposes of a corporation.
You overestate the mechanics of a board of directors and a CEO. The influence is what matters. Why was Jack Welch effectual? Wasn't he just a messenger boy for the GE board of directors?
I am better off than 2000 but not b/c anything Bush has done.
What if the Chinese call our notes due? Think of the tax hike that would happen to satisfy those obligations. You owe over $30,000 Beach Bum.
Bush is grossly incompetent judging by the economic well-being of our country as a whole.
If you wish to look at isolated cases of people prospering under Bush's tax slashing and deregulation bonanza that's fine. But that does not represent the country as whole....like our national debt does.
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The only legal purpose of a corporation is to make a profit. All else is dicta...we could talk about a competent workforce or good coffee in the company kitchen too but those are not legal purposes of a corporation.
You overestate the mechanics of a board of directors and a CEO. The influence is what matters. Why was Jack Welch effectual? Wasn't he just a messenger boy for the GE board of directors?
I am better off than 2000 but not b/c anything Bush has done.
What if the Chinese call our notes due? Think of the tax hike that would happen to satisfy those obligations. You owe over $30,000 Beach Bum.
Bush is grossly incompetent judging by the economic well-being of our country as a whole.
If you wish to look at isolated cases of people prospering under Bush's tax slashing and deregulation bonanza that's fine. But that does not represent the country as whole....like our national debt does.
I disagree. Some statute somewhere might say the "legal purpose" of a corporation is profit, but that's not reality for most well-run corporations. That's the primary, but hardly the only, purpose.
How am I overstating the mechanics of the board? They actually run the corporation. The president makes the day-to-day decisions, but he or she always answers to the board.
I'm not referring to isolated cases of Americans. We are prospering in great numbers all across the country. Unemployment has been down. New jobs have been created. Home ownership is up. Income is up. Yes our national debt and our deficit are a problem, but on balance I think our country is better off today than it was in 2000.
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I disagree. Some statute somewhere might say the "legal purpose" of a corporation is profit, but that's not reality for most well-run corporations. That's the primary, but hardly the only, purpose.
How am I overstating the mechanics of the board? They actually run the corporation. The president makes the day-to-day decisions, but he or she always answers to the board.
I'm not referring to isolated cases of Americans. We are prospering in great numbers all across the country. Unemployment has been down. New jobs have been created. Home ownership is up. Income is up. Yes our national debt and our deficit are a problem, but on balance I think our country is better off today than it was in 2000.
Is it better for the Katrina victims and the city of New Orleans? How about the 3000+ dead soldiers? Home ownership is up? So is the record defaults, repossessions and evictions.
Poverty in the US has ballooned under Bush from 31 million to 37 million--there's 6 million people that don't appreciate the good times under Bush.
There are 7 million more uninsured people under Bush---Bet they are happy about his policies.
The Average Income has stalled or fallen. Both income and wealth inequality have exploded.
His tax cuts went inordinately to the rich--more than they paid in.
America's middle class is working harder, making less, and paying more just to get by. After eight years of watching their incomes go up, middle- class families have seen them drop an average of $1,500 a year since Bush took office. They're paying $3,500 a year more for health insurance, $1,200 a year more for college, and $750 a year more for gasoline.
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I think our country is better off today than it was in 2000.
Is it better for the Katrina victims and the city of New Orleans? How about the 3000+ dead soldiers? Home ownership is up? So is the record defaults, repossessions and evictions.
Poverty in the US has ballooned under Bush from 31 million to 37 million--there's 6 million people that don't appreciate the good times under Bush.
There are 7 million more uninsured people under Bush---Bet they are happy about his policies.
The Average Income has stalled or fallen. Both income and wealth inequality have exploded.
His tax cuts went inordinately to the rich--more than they paid in.
America's middle class is working harder, making less, and paying more just to get by. After eight years of watching their incomes go up, middle- class families have seen them drop an average of $1,500 a year since Bush took office. They're paying $3,500 a year more for health insurance, $1,200 a year more for college, and $750 a year more for gasoline.
Can you please list how the USA is "better off" today than 7 years ago, BB?
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Can you please list how the USA is "better off" today than 7 years ago, BB?
Well 240, he does have a point, Americans are better off today than in 2000.
Today, you can look forward to getting rid of that clown in a year ...possibly less.
Back in 2000, you were looking at potentially 8 yrs. so in that sense....
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Is it better for the Katrina victims and the city of New Orleans? How about the 3000+ dead soldiers? Home ownership is up? So is the record defaults, repossessions and evictions.
Poverty in the US has ballooned under Bush from 31 million to 37 million--there's 6 million people that don't appreciate the good times under Bush.
There are 7 million more uninsured people under Bush---Bet they are happy about his policies.
The Average Income has stalled or fallen. Both income and wealth inequality have exploded.
His tax cuts went inordinately to the rich--more than they paid in.
America's middle class is working harder, making less, and paying more just to get by. After eight years of watching their incomes go up, middle- class families have seen them drop an average of $1,500 a year since Bush took office. They're paying $3,500 a year more for health insurance, $1,200 a year more for college, and $750 a year more for gasoline.
No, things are not better for those who died in war, a natural disaster, lost their home, etc., etc. But for millions of other Americans, yes their lives are better today than they were seven years ago.
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Can you please list how the USA is "better off" today than 7 years ago, BB?
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/achievement/chap5-nrn-bak.html
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http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/achievement/chap5-nrn-bak.html
have an original thought for once in your lifetime and post a synopsis of it, no?
I don't usually visit propaganda websites anymore.