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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: 240 is Back on July 08, 2008, 02:01:33 PM
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For the second time in 2 days, the top Iraqi officials have said it's time for us to leave, or set a timetable to leave.
If we refuse to leave when they want us to leave, does that make us "Occupiers"?
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Iraqi PM Rubair
"There should not be any permanent bases in Iraq, unless they are under Iraqi control"
He then referred to us as "foreign occupiers".
They want us to leave.
The top 2 leaders have said to the world media in the last two days.
US Admin officials disagree and say we won't be leaving.
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2004 Mccain, when asked what we do if Iraqis want us to leave:
"it's obvious we would have to leave. I don't see how we could stay when our entire emphasis has been turning things over to the iraqi people".
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For the second time in 2 days, the top Iraqi officials have said it's time for us to leave, or set a timetable to leave.
If we refuse to leave when they want us to leave, does that make us "Occupiers"?
Are the Iraqi leadership a bunch of democrats?
How can they want to set a date for the US withdrawal for the enemy to see?
They are aiding and comforting their own enemy!
They are rooting for their own enemy!
Unbelievable!
Kill or be killed.
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Are the Iraqi leadership a bunch of democrats?
How can they want to set a date for the US withdrawal for the enemy to see?
They are aiding and comforting their own enemy!
They are rooting for their own enemy!
Unbelievable!
Kill or be killed.
LMAO...
The SOFA... status of forces agreement or whatever... it's beginning to sound like things might get dicey on this. The top 2 guys in Iraq come out in consecutive days and basically say "we want you to leave".
We have GIANT bases over there. Will we just CLOSE them in the next 2 years?
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I'm here.................... makes no difference. I won't know much inside info on this until the middle of next month. Its not a huge leap from what we expected. P4 said that by next year we would not be able to leave the FOBS to conduct offensive ops unless asked. This sounds like rethoric to allow the Iraqi government to sound strong and able to stand on its own feet.
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We leave.........nobody will mind. As long as they can stand on their own feet. They're atleast 18 months from that.
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We leave.........nobody will mind. As long as they can stand on their own feet. They're atleast 18 months from that.
No way we leave.
No way.
4100 lives and $3 trillion (longterm healthcare costs).
We didn't invest that much so we could be asked to leave.
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Not much choice........but the timeline won't be before 2011.
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No way we leave.
No way.
4100 lives and $3 trillion (longterm healthcare costs).
We didn't invest that much so we could be asked to leave.
Nevermind the permanent bases...
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How are we going to leave when we're stealing their oil?
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How are we going to leave when we're stealing their oil?
Good call. our firms will be overseeing the oil exploration and all other foreign firms. Bases in the region keep them safe and ensure we can mix it up should insurgents attack our Exxon facilities, or should the govt decide we gotta go.
it should be interesting seeing what happens next. Iraqi leadership is telling us to leave, and the whole world watches. What do we do now?
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Or May be the war was more than just about oil.
It Couldn't be... NeoCons might have a conscience and might actually let Iraq deal with there oil fields themselves. That would never happen, because they are the evil hegemonic Americans.
Pelosi makes me laugh, so now that Iraq feels some measure success she wants America to leave the failed war in Iraq.
Wouldn't America be leaving because Iraq can finally take care of its self.
Thats impossible after all we are still in 2006 an Pelosi won congress by saying that the Iraq war had failed and that in 100 days troops would be coming home.
She needs to wake and acknowledge the success the surge had, oh what that means that McCain was right and the Democrats including Obama were wrong.
Here's to hoping that the defeatists won't take the whitehouse. I vote for actions and not words.
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[...]
"The current trend is to reach an agreement on a memorandum of understanding either for the departure of the forces or a memorandum of understanding to put a timetable on their withdrawal."
Don't think for a minute that Maliki, or his Shiite allies, want the US forces to leave. But they are under a lot of pressure. First of all, they are under pressure from Iran, whose regime remains the chief ally of the ruling alliance of Shiites, including Maliki's Dawa party and the powerful Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq (ISCI), led by Abdel Aziz al-Hakim. Iran's goal is to neutralize Iraq as a possible threat to Iran, and Iran's leaders are pressuring Maliki and Hakim to loosen their reliance on the United States. Interestingly, Maliki reportedly told President Bush personally, in a video teleconference on Friday, that the United States cannot use Iraqi territory to attack Iran, and he added that "fomenting tension in the region and pushing for military action against Tehran could wreak havoc on the entire region, including Iraq."
Maliki is also under pressure from a broad coalition of Iraqi nationalists, from angry, disenfranchised Sunnis to Muqtada al-Sadr's movement.
But Maliki's statement is a big deal. At a minimum, it presents an enormous problem for Bush and John McCain, who are arguing for an indefinite US stay in Iraq til "victory," and who oppose a timetable. True, Maliki seems to be linking his timetable to Iraqi military success, which is not too different from the Bush-McCain formula. But inside Iraq, the pressure is building day by day for a US withdrawal, and Maliki is by no means in control of the process. The fact that both Iran and Sunni nationalists, who are on a collision course, agree that US forces need to leave Iraq, only means that pro- and anti-Iranian factions will settle their differences (either by peaceful diplomacy or by violence) once the United States is gone.
Another factor is that Maliki, who is visiting the United Arab Emirates, is working hard to gain the support of the Sunni-led Arab regimes for his shaky coalition. The UAE and Jordan have both announced that they will be sending ambassadors to Baghdad, and King Abdullah of Jordan will himself make a visit to Baghdad soon, the first by an Arab head of state since the US invasion.
Despite US bungling, it seems increasingly likely that Iran and Saudi Arabia are working behind the scenes to negotiate a Shiite-Sunni accord in Iraq, but both Tehran and Riyadh will want it conditioned on a US withdrawal.
http://www.truthout.org/article/maliki-stunner-he-wants-us-pullout-timetable
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Regardless of when there is a RIF, Iraq needs to write us a big fat check. Somebody remind those folks that freedom isn't free. :)
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Regardless of when there is a RIF, Iraq needs to write us a big fat check. Somebody remind those folks that freedom isn't free. :)
So you're saying we're mercenaries now?
Mercenaries get paid.
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So you're saying we're mercenaries now?
Mercenaries get paid.
Nah. I'm saying they need to help foot the bill for the war. It's one of the issues the Democrats got right when they questioned why Iraq isn't helping. Too bad nobody has done anything about it.
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Nah. I'm saying they need to help foot the bill for the war. It's one of the issues the Democrats got right when they questioned why Iraq isn't helping. Too bad nobody has done anything about it.
I thought we did it of our own good will?
We did it to bring freedom... We didn't ask for money... Right?
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I thought we did it of our own good will?
We did it to bring freedom... We didn't ask for money... Right?
We didn't ask for money, but they have it and they should contribute. You disagree?
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We didn't ask for money, but they have it and they should contribute. You disagree?
I disagree that people should be told they have to pay for a fight they didn't ask for... Yes.
Had they asked for the US to overthrow Saddam and then we did it, then I would agree with charging them for the service.
If you go beat up the playground bully because you see him do something to a little kid... do you charge that little kid his lunch money for your "good will"?
(I disagree with us being there at all btw.)
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Iraq has a $30 billion surplus that we know of. They're rich. They don't know how to spend it, as welfare isn't set up there.
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Regardless of when there is a RIF, Iraq needs to write us a big fat check. Somebody remind those folks that freedom isn't free. :)
What are you talking about ??? Lots of people already got their fat checks.
Not sure if you're being flip or funny, but I would hazard a wild guess that the Iraqi people are very well aware that freedom isn't free at all.
Iraq has a $30 billion surplus that we know of. They're rich. They don't know how to spend it, as welfare isn't set up there.
Is there a link to that info 240? Everything I've seen is more like this:
After canceling 4 billion in debt...
The UAE hopes that its decision to cancel Iraq's debt "will help alleviate the economic burdens endured by the brotherly Iraqi people," WAM quoted the UAE president as telling Maliki, who arrived earlier Sunday on a two-day visit.
It also aims to "help the Iraqi government implement reconstruction plans and rehabilitate institutions and facilities," he said, adding that Abu Dhabi would not hesitate to "provide all kinds of financial and moral aid" to Iraq.
Sheikh Khalifa added that Abu Dhabi's decision to reopen its embassy in Baghdad underlined its belief in "the importance of Iraq's interaction with its Arab environment."
Saudi Arabia, one of Washington's key regional allies, said in April it would reopen its embassy in Iraq only when security was restored.
Before the UAE announced the debt writeoff, the US State Department had said Iraq's debt has been reduced by 66.5 billion dollars over the past three years, including a total of 42.3 billion dollars cancelled by Paris Club members.
US Deputy Treasury Secretary Robert Kimmitt said in May that 50 billion to 80 billion dollars remain, with a "significant majority" owed to Arab countries.
The UAE's decision will help improve Baghdad's credit rating and "boost the restoration of security and stability by paving the way for Iraq to shed the burdens weighing down its economy," Maliki told Khalifa, according to WAM.
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"This sounds like rethoric to allow the Iraqi government to sound strong and able to stand on its own feet."
That makes sense. We'll never know what they are saying behind the scenes. The Iraqi gov must show its strength & eventually tell the US to withdraw troops...and we should slowly start that process now IMO.
We must be allowed to have bases there to monitor the unstable country and its oil supplies. If the Malaki gov is toppled under terrorists or other insurgent groups, they now control billions of dollars and vast oil supplies that the world needs.
I don't know about paying us but I do agree that Iraqi oil $ needs to fund all Iraqi building, construction and military efforts from this day forward. They are making billions on oil again. If they truely still want us there for military support, they need to start funding the military operations.
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What are you talking about ??? Lots of people already got their fat checks.
Not sure if you're being flip or funny, but I would hazard a wild guess that the Iraqi people are very well aware that freedom isn't free at all.
I'm talking about Iraq subsidizing the war costs.
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I'm talking about Iraq subsidizing the war costs.
They should just pay it all. :)
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They should just pay it all. :)
Would be okay with me.
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I'm talking about Iraq subsidizing the war costs.
Aren't they? To be fair, this is the largest privatized war ever, and the people who were meant to benefit have already made huge profits. These are largely American corpies, so you can't have any complaints there. To date, foreign states have wiped out a lot of Iraq's debt, and the 6 Bill budgetary surplus amassed from newly functioning oil production HAS been alloted for subsidizing war costs... namely rebuilding the infrastructure.
Building hospitals, addressing 30-50% unemployment and 13% infant mortality rates, fixing the power, sewage, garbage collection, drinkable water issues... and you know, building stuff so society can function.
Granted 100's of US millions were earmarked for that in '05 and have been mismanaged, but at least these funds went into American pockets.
There's 300 billion in contracts up for grabs with rebuild iraq '08 projects, so that's all good too as many US contractors will benefit there.
Besides, GW said in February that the economical decline wasn't due to the war, that the war in fact created jobs, and the prob is simply that you built too many houses and the market is adjusting.
You sounded like you wanted a rebate check for your contribution or something. My mistake. :)
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Aren't they? To be fair, this is the largest privatized war ever, and the people who were meant to benefit have already made huge profits. These are largely American corpies, so you can't have any complaints there. To date, foreign states have wiped out a lot of Iraq's debt, and the 6 Bill budgetary surplus amassed from newly functioning oil production HAS been alloted for subsidizing war costs... namely rebuilding the infrastructure.
Building hospitals, addressing 30-50% unemployment and 13% infant mortality rates, fixing the power, sewage, garbage collection, drinkable water issues... and you know, building stuff so society can function.
Granted 100's of US millions were earmarked for that in '05 and have been mismanaged, but at least these funds went into American pockets.
There's 300 billion in contracts up for grabs with rebuild iraq '08 projects, so that's all good too as many US contractors will benefit there.
Besides, GW said in February that the economical decline wasn't due to the war, that the war in fact created jobs, and the prob is simply that you built too many houses and the market is adjusting.
You sounded like you wanted a rebate check for your contribution or something. My mistake. :)
No no, not talking about rebate check. :)
Whatever they're subsidizing it ain't enough. When I've talked to people who have been there about why the country isn't flourishing financially with all of the oil revenue, the answer I've gotten is they don't have the infrastructure in place to manage the money. I don't completely understand that, but whatever needs to happen for them to start writing checks to help pay for the costs of the war needs to happen.
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I disagree that people should be told they have to pay for a fight they didn't ask for... Yes.
Had they asked for the US to overthrow Saddam and then we did it, then I would agree with charging them for the service.
If you go beat up the playground bully because you see him do something to a little kid... do you charge that little kid his lunch money for your "good will"?
Agree....
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I wonder if France charged us after 1781 for their help.
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No no, not talking about rebate check. :)
Whatever they're subsidizing it ain't enough. When I've talked to people who have been there about why the country isn't flourishing financially with all of the oil revenue, the answer I've gotten is they don't have the infrastructure in place to manage the money. I don't completely understand that, but whatever needs to happen for them to start writing checks to help pay for the costs of the war needs to happen.
If you want to vomit, here's a cost counter where you can actually see the dollars being spent in your tiny paradise hamlet of the US. If you watch for a couple of minutes it's kind of mesmerizing.
http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home
From what I've read and heard from people who've been there, the country is JUST starting to produce oil in the dollar amounts and quantities that were predicted years ago. Add to that, the country is only beginning its wobbly start, and has a demolished infrastructure to rebuild amidst sporatic violence. Iraq is also attempting to re-integrate itself into its ME community, which means dancing with other heads of state who have their own agendas.
Also the US WANTS to keep certain projects/aspects of the war under its wing for control/"efficiency" :-X reasons.
And I was being completely sarcastic about all the Bush admin's mismanaging of funds and approved privatized looting that has cost the taxpayers billions being a good thing. :) Still, they had a great 8-year run, people made fortunes, but the admin is now on the way out and so it'll be time to pack it in in Iraq too. Have patience.
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US tax dollars at work in Iraq! :D
[...] A few months later, in March 2004, your company magically wins a contract from the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq to design and build the Baghdad Police College, a facility that's supposed to house and train at least 4,000 police recruits. But two years and $72 million later, you deliver not a functioning police academy but one of the great engineering clusterfucks of all time, a practically useless pile of rubble so badly constructed that its walls and ceilings are literally caked in shit and piss, a result of subpar plumbing in the upper floors.
You've done such a terrible job, in fact, that when auditors from the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction visit the college in the summer of 2006, their report sounds like something out of one of the Saw movies: "We witnessed a light fixture so full of diluted urine and feces that it would not operate," they write, adding that "the urine was so pervasive that it had permanently stained the ceiling tiles" and that "during our visit, a substance dripped from the ceiling onto an assessment team member's shirt." The final report helpfully includes a photo of a sloppy brown splotch on the outstretched arm of the unlucky auditor..
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/16076312/the_great_iraq_swindle
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If you want to vomit, here's a cost counter where you can actually see the dollars being spent in your tiny paradise hamlet of the US. If you watch for a couple of minutes it's kind of mesmerizing.
http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home
From what I've read and heard from people who've been there, the country is JUST starting to produce oil in the dollar amounts and quantities that were predicted years ago. Add to that, the country is only beginning its wobbly start, and has a demolished infrastructure to rebuild amidst sporatic violence. Iraq is also attempting to re-integrate itself into its ME community, which means dancing with other heads of state who have their own agendas.
Also the US WANTS to keep certain projects/aspects of the war under its wing for control/"efficiency" :-X reasons.
And I was being completely sarcastic about all the Bush admin's mismanaging of funds and approved privatized looting that has cost the taxpayers billions being a good thing. :) Still, they had a great 8-year run, people made fortunes, but the admin is now on the way out and so it'll be time to pack it in in Iraq too. Have patience.
Cool link. :) It has only cost Honolulu $480,778,332 (333, 334, 335, 336) . . . .