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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Sports Discussion Boards => Topic started by: Earl1972 on August 25, 2008, 03:02:35 PM
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it is now official, he is a bust
lost the job to some journeyman that has plaed for about 7 teams :'(
where is "old school flip" and "ozmo" who claimed they would take him over pro bowler and super bowl winning qb Ben Roethlisberger? ;D
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He has to be in the conversation for biggest bust of all time. I can't believe Nolan didn't bring in either C-Pep or Leftwich to compete. The Niners QB situation might be the worst in the NFL.
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looks like Martz probably didn't think he would fit with his system, Mad Mike is great at developing quarterbacks but if he doesn't like you you're finished.
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it is now official, he is a bust
lost the job to some journeyman that has plaed for about 7 teams :'(
where is "old school flip" and "ozmo" who claimed they would take him over pro bowler and super bowl winning qb Ben Roethlisberger? ;D
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I'm right here.
At the time I would. Of course not now. Or last year. But at the end of the year before that i would have. ;D
Agreed. he's in the Biggest Bust of All time group now.
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At the time I would. .
please explain the logic behind your thoughts at the time
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please explain the logic behind your thoughts at the time
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Already have.
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Already have.
when? last year?
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who are they going with instead of Smith?
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who are they going with instead of Smith?
O'Sullivan,he was on Detroit last year so he knows the system.
hope he's a tuff son of a bitch because Martz Doesn't run that much and the QB's in his system take a POUNDING!
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What is wrong with people.
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O'Sullivan,he was on Detroit last year so he knows the system.
hope he's a tuff son of a bitch because Martz Doesn't run that much and the QB's in his system take a POUNDING!
yep he's an "air it out" West Coast Offense kind of guy, we had him in STL for a few years.
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yep he's an "air it out" West Coast Offense kind of guy, we had him in STL for a few years.
At least you had Faulk when he was the coordinator,since than it seems like he doesn't give a damn about the running game :-\
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I don't have many high hopes for Martz. But he's better then that dim wit they had last year by far.
Don't know if you'll see much in terms of offense this year. Gore is not Faulk and Vernon is not a wide out.
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At least you had Faulk when he was the coordinator,since than it seems like he doesn't give a damn about the running game :-\
yeah Faulk was an incredible all purpose back who could do it all, run, catch balls out of the backfield, block and he was as smart a player as there ever was, plus we had Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce to throw to.
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JT O'Sullivan! Lol, who da thunk that a journeyman would win the starting job? Of course the same thing happened to Kurt Warner a few years back and they won the SB in Martz's first stint as an offensive coordinator............. .so there's a glimmer of hope. Our defense is good, as long as it's not on the field for 45 mins a game like last year.
And Earl can be high on Rothlisberger because he's won an SB, but don't bet on it this year. Jags have their number and Big Ben can't beat them either at Jax or home.
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JT O'Sullivan! Lol, who da thunk that a journeyman would win the starting job? Of course the same thing happened to Kurt Warner a few years back and they won the SB in Martz's first stint as an offensive coordinator............. .so there's a glimmer of hope. Our defense is good, as long as it's not on the field for 45 mins a game like last year.
And Earl can be high on Rothlisberger because he's won an SB, but don't bet on it this year. Jags have their number and Big Ben can't beat them either at Jax or home.
haha a "glimmer"
that's all you 9er fans have these days ;D
yes the jags have had our number but i'm optimistic things will change 8)
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haha a "glimmer"
that's all you 9er fans have these days ;D
yes the jags have had our number but i'm optimistic things will change 8)
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Least the tickets are cheap right now.
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haha a "glimmer"
that's all you 9er fans have these days ;D
yes the jags have had our number but i'm optimistic things will change 8)
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True....but how soon you forget about your franchise's not-so-great-days.....apparently, it's our turn to suck now.
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Let me add this.....he may be a "no name" now....but you just never know in this league. Tom Brady was once a "no name". Hell, Kurt Warner, Marc Bulger....you get the idea. I'm hoping JT O'Sullivan can be the next star QB who came out of nowhere...... ;)
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At least you had Faulk when he was the coordinator,since than it seems like he doesn't give a damn about the running game :-\
I think Frank Gore can be a top tier back in the league, so he might not get beat up as much as you think.
If he commits AT ALL to the run, he will be saved a lot of pain.
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I think Frank Gore can be a top tier back in the league, so he might not get beat up as much as you think.
He already is. Had almost 1700 yards rushing a couple years ago.
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Patrick Willis is a tackling machine.
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He already is. Had almost 1700 yards rushing a couple years ago.
I agree... I even put him on one of my fantasy rosters.
:D
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True....but how soon you forget about your franchise's not-so-great-days.....apparently, it's our turn to suck now.
what 20 years ago?
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Let me add this.....he may be a "no name" now....but you just never know in this league. Tom Brady was once a "no name". Hell, Kurt Warner, Marc Bulger....you get the idea. I'm hoping JT O'Sullivan can be the next star QB who came out of nowhere...... ;)
the difference is these guys played for one team, not 6 or 7 ;)
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Least the tickets are cheap right now.
you said you were rich, right?
so why would ticket price be a problem ;)
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I agree... I even put him on one of my fantasy rosters.
:D
:) Wish I had him. I had the no. 2 pick in my draft and took AP. Hope I don't regret it.
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:) Wish I had him. I had the no. 2 pick in my draft and took AP. Hope I don't regret it.
Let me guess... LT went number 1!
I always worry about that sophomore slump... It's possible he (AP) really is THAT good, but I tell you... I just couldn't have gone there.
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Let me guess... LT went number 1!
I always worry about that sophomore slump... It's possible he (AP) really is THAT good, but I tell you... I just couldn't have gone there.
Yep. LT has to go no. 1.
I was actually leaning towards Westbrook, but I let a couple guys talk me into AP. He's the real deal, but I'm concerned about his health.
Who did you have at 2? Where did you get Gore?
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you said you were rich, right?
so why would ticket price be a problem ;)
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Lol, I have money because I don't spend it on "lavish" things that others need to make themselves happy or to define themselves. Many people live paycheck to paycheck because they have no idea how to control their finances. So, it's not a problem of cost, it's whether or not the cost is justified.
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Yep. LT has to go no. 1.
I was actually leaning towards Westbrook, but I let a couple guys talk me into AP. He's the real deal, but I'm concerned about his health.
Who did you have at 2? Where did you get Gore?
I had Westbrook number 2... Followed by Addai.
I got Gore as the 8th pick overall. (He should have been gone around 6, but some people went with Brady or Moss.)
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Lol, I have money because I don't spend it on "lavish" things that others need to make themselves happy or to define themselves. Many people live paycheck to paycheck because they have no idea how to control their finances. So, it's not a problem of cost, it's whether or not the cost is justified.
Vernon Davis had an amazing career at U. Of Maryland. I hope his NFL career takes off.
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I had Westbrook number 2... Followed by Addai.
I got Gore as the 8th pick overall. (He should have been gone around 6, but some people went with Brady or Moss.)
Gore was a good pick at 8.
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Ya think? ::)
Posted: 09/04/2008
Former top overall pick Smith has one year to secure job with 49ers
Associated Press
SANTA CLARA, Calif. -- If Alex Smith can't reclaim the San Francisco 49ers' starting quarterback job over the next 17 weeks, he can forget about getting another chance next season.
General manager Scot McCloughan confirmed the harsh realities of NFL salary cap life Wednesday for Smith, the former No. 1 overall draft pick who will begin his fourth pro season Sunday as the backup to journeyman J.T. O'Sullivan. Although the 49ers appear committed to keeping Smith this season, given the meager benefits of cutting him and the minuscule chances of trading him, their largesse won't continue in 2009.
When asked if the 49ers could keep Smith as anything less than the clear-cut starter next year, McCloughan said: "You can't."
"The amount of money we're going to invest in him, he'd have to be proven that he's the guy," McCloughan added. "When we get to the offseason, he'd have to be the guy for next year."
If the 49ers' decision to start O'Sullivan works out, Smith could make a hefty salary just by holding a clipboard this season. Smith also is scheduled to make more than $9 million in base salary next year, with a cap figure over $12 million.
McCloughan acknowledges he was "surprised" last month when O'Sullivan beat out Smith, who was McCloughan's first draft pick with the 49ers three years ago. McCloughan expected Smith to be the Niners' starter Sunday against Arizona, getting the experience and seasoning he would need to be the long-term starter.
But O'Sullivan, the eight-team NFL veteran who spent last year in Detroit with 49ers offensive coordinator Mike Martz, apparently has a more thorough knowledge of San Francisco's new offense than Smith, who's on his fourth offensive coordinator in four years. O'Sullivan will make his first NFL start against the Cardinals.
"Am I disappointed? Not whatsoever," McCloughan claimed. "I think that you would have gone into this last offseason thinking that our starting quarterback would be (found) on the street. I don't think you'd find one team that would say that. ... We brought a quarterback in that fits the system that we're going to run, and he showed during the offseason and preseason that he was getting better with the system and it was working for him."
Smith is well aware of his predicament and his imminent departure from San Francisco unless he gets the job back. His tense relationship with Nolan in 2007 has largely cooled, and Smith remains publicly positive about his chance to contribute in San Francisco this season.
"I'm ready to do whatever they ask me to do," Smith said recently. "My shoulder feels fine. (I'm) just looking forward to learning all of the offense and playing whatever role I get."
In the first few months since McCloughan's promotion to a nominal position of authority over coach Mike Nolan, the GM has stayed out of coaching decisions such as O'Sullivan's promotion, just as he did over the past three seasons when Nolan had the final say on every decision. McCloughan claims he and Nolan still make personnel decisions together, and they almost never disagree.
The general manager doesn't regret giving $24 million in guaranteed money to Smith despite his middling statistics with one of the NFL's worst offenses over the last three years. McCloughan also insists Smith had a fair chance to win the starting job, contrary to rumors that O'Sullivan got the nod despite doing little to distinguish himself in practice.
"From a pure talent standpoint, I see something different, but that doesn't matter," McCloughan said. "You've got to go out there with the guy who understands the system and knows how to work the system best."
Nolan managed to get a fourth year at the 49ers' helm from owner John York despite a 16-32 record in his first three seasons. Now that McCloughan has the authority to fire the coach who hired him to run the personnel department in 2005, he's making no bold predictions about Nolan's future beyond this season.
"We're all under fire, from the standpoint that we need to win," McCloughan said. "We have not won as many games as we would have liked so far. Not making excuses, we feel this team is talented enough to win. We've got to go out and do it. I wouldn't pinpoint one guy that's under more pressure than another guy. We all work together."
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80a7ad15&template=with-video&confirm=true
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Lol, now Smith is on the IR list with a broken bone in his shoulder. I me thinks the 9ers are just opening space for a backup.
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Good job by the no name this weekend. First 9er QB to throw for over 300 yds since 2004.
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That's sad.
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Hey at least they got the W. Maybe they can get to 500 hundred this year. :-[
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It's possible.
and they did get the W.
But 3 years without a 300+ passing day?
Nolan should go back to being a DC
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I think you have to look at who has been playing QB since 04: Tim Rattay, Smith, and Dilfer. We also had some pretty bad offensive coordinators.
For the most part, the coach is only as good as his players. No one accused Belichick of being a genius before Tom Brady became Joe Montana.
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I think you have to look at who has been playing QB since 04: Tim Rattay, Smith, and Dilfer. We also had some pretty bad offensive coordinators.
For the most part, the coach is only as good as his players. No one accused Belichick of being a genius before Tom Brady became Joe Montana.
Looking at a year by itself is something that i agree with in relation to your argument. But we are talking about 3 years. The coach and GM are responsible for getting the right players.
I think the problem is, Nolan philosophy. i.e. a conservative approach to offense that was similar to the Ravens Super Bowl run.
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Looking at a year by itself is something that i agree with in relation to your argument. But we are talking about 3 years. The coach and GM are responsible for getting the right players.
I think the problem is, Nolan philosophy. i.e. a conservative approach to offense that was similar to the Ravens Super Bowl run.
I would blame Nolan for drafting Alex Smith and not hiring the right offensive coordinator, but he doesn't call the plays. He inherited a mess with a lousy owner and did an okay job improving the team.
But I agree he and the GM could have done a better job of getting better players.
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I would blame Nolan for drafting Alex Smith and not hiring the right offensive coordinator, but he doesn't call the plays. He inherited a mess with a lousy owner and did an okay job improving the team.
But I agree he and the GM could have done a better job of getting better players.
He may not call the plays but he does have the final say in the game plan right? He's conservative in his approach. Being conservative does not a high scoring offense make.
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BB,
Doesn't it really make you wonder that with all the experience and knowledge in player evaluation that coach's have that any drafted player, no matter how high, doesn't guarantee they will be a good player?
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He may not call the plays but he does have the final say in the game plan right? He's conservative in his approach. Being conservative does not a high scoring offense make.
I'm sure he approves the game plan, but I doubt he dictates what kind of offense they run or what plays are called (unless it's fourth down). Three hundred yard passing games aren't necessarily indicative of a high scoring offense. Could just mean they're always behind, different philosophy, don't have a good running game, etc. Also, the Bill Walsh Offense (improperly named the "West Coast Offense") doesn't rely on throwing the ball down the field. It's a short passing game with a balanced running offense.
If we're talking about 300 yard passing, it would not surprise me that Rattay, Alex Smith, and Dilfer didn't have one. I doubt Dilfer has many in his entire career.
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BB,
Doesn't it really make you wonder that with all the experience and knowledge in player evaluation that coach's have that any drafted player, no matter how high, doesn't guarantee they will be a good player?
Yeah mang. It's a real crapshoot. You typically get a stud with the first few picks, but you never know how college success or "measurables" will translate in the NFL. Just look at the 05 draft. We took Alex Smith at 1, but should have drafted Merriman, who went 12th.
And then when a player doesn't pan out, the teams keep them longer than they should, because the GM and everyone involved in the selection don't want to admit failure.
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BB,
Doesn't it really make you wonder that with all the experience and knowledge in player evaluation that coach's have that any drafted player, no matter how high, doesn't guarantee they will be a good player?
most knew smith was a huge risk, tom donahoe said that 05 draft was so weak he would've passed on taking a pick if he was in the lottery that year
he was a system qb with tiny hands, it was a terrible pick and many teams are looking quite foolish right now for making aaron rodgers wait to get picked
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I'm sure he approves the game plan, but I doubt he dictates what kind of offense they run or what plays are called (unless it's fourth down). Three hundred yard passing games aren't necessarily indicative of a high scoring offense. Could just mean they're always behind, different philosophy, don't have a good running game, etc. Also, the Bill Walsh Offense (improperly named the "West Coast Offense") doesn't rely on throwing the ball down the field. It's a short passing game with a balanced running offense.
If we're talking about 300 yard passing, it would not surprise me that Rattay, Alex Smith, and Dilfer didn't have one. I doubt Dilfer has many in his entire career.
and Dilfer hasn't exactly been considered a good QB either. But I beg to differ with you on the game plan. If the head coach doesn't influence the game plan offensively and defensively then what's the point of the job?
I agree about 300 yards passing not being a measuring stick, however, all good offenses have far more 300 passing games then 1 every 3 years.
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most knew smith was a huge risk, tom donahoe said that 05 draft was so weak he would've passed on taking a pick if he was in the lottery that year
he was a system qb with tiny hands, it was a terrible pick and many teams are looking quite foolish right now for making aaron rodgers wait to get picked
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Yep. I agree.
We'll see about Aaron Rogers when he plays a real good team. Although, he appears to be far better than Smith ever was. Don't they play Dallas next week?
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and Dilfer hasn't exactly been considered a good QB either. But I beg to differ with you on the game plan. If the head coach doesn't influence the game plan offensively and defensively then what's the point of the job?
I agree about 300 yards passing not being a measuring stick, however, all good offenses have far more 300 passing games then 1 every 3 years.
I agree the head coach influences both sides of the ball. He has to set the tone for the entire team (all three phases). What I can't really see is a good head coach who is defensive minded calling plays on offense. He needs to draft and sign good players, hire a good offensive coordinator, and get out of the way.
Our offense has been among the worst in the NFL the past three or four years. (It's remarkable that Gore had 1700 yards rushing a couple years ago.) Given that it has been so bad, I wouldn't really expect a lot of yards. I do agree that no 300 yard passing games sounds pretty bad though.
But hey I see your point: the buck stops with the head coach. I agree with that, although he must have the horses to get the job done.
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Also remember, they haven't run the West Coast offense since Mariucci left. It sucks that an offense that is ran practically by all high scoring teams isn't ran by the 9ers. I'd would have even taken a 2nd rate OC of the West Coast offense compared to what they ran when Dennis Erickson and now Nolan were running. I do like Martz' style of running a high octane offense though.
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Lovin JT O'Sullivan right now!
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So far, looks like Martz knew what he was doing.
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Yes, Martz is a top of the line OC. And the offense actually looks like an offense compared to what it looked like last year. But is was against Detroit.