Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on September 01, 2008, 09:53:32 AM
-
Palin’s 17-Year-Old Daughter is Pregnant
by Associated Press
Monday, September 1, 2008
Sarah and Todd Palin say their 17-year-old unmarried daughter is pregnant.The couple said in a statement released by John McCain’s presidential campaign that Bristol will keep her baby.
Sarah Palin is McCain’s vice presidential running mate.
The Alaska governor says Bristol intends to marry the father of her child.
She and the campaign also are asking that the media respect the family’s privacy
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/01/palins-17-year-old-daughter-is-pregnant/
-
Irresponsible parenting. Well, this kind of stuff happens. I don't think the mother will choose an abortion but you never know. I wonder if the baby will be white? I'm just sayin'.
-
It may just eliminate the possibility the current baby is hers, but interesting nevertheless!
Discuss 8)
-
It may just eliminate the possibility the current baby is hers, but interesting nevertheless!
Discuss 8)
it could also be viewed as lending credence to the possiblity that it is her's.
It shows she's sexually active and she simply could have made the same mistake twice only this time it can't be covered up by pretending she has mono
-
lol :D :-[
-
Irresponsible parenting. Well, this kind of stuff happens. I don't think the mother will choose an abortion but you never know. I wonder if the baby will be white? I'm just sayin'.
Abortion is OUT OF THE QUESTION with Sarah Palin as the mother.
"Irresponsible parenting?" I agree. ;D
it could also be viewed as lending credence to the possiblity that it is her's.
It shows she's sexually active and she simply could have made the same mistake twice only this time it can't be covered up by pretending she has mono
I only think not due to the timing. ??? Unless the ages are fudged, the current baby is 5 months old, no?
-
Non-issue.
-
Non-issue.
personally, I agree. This, like most things to do with sex (assuming consensual and legal) are none of my business
The only true political issue I see is how this will affect Palins standing with the jesus crowd given that she's on the ticket to appeal to them
-
Easy to get pregnant again when your mom doesn't allow you to breastfeed.
-
Non-issue.
Oh, its and issue whether you PERSONALLY want it to be or not. I don't think the evangelical base will be too please with this example of moral values or responsible parenting. ;)
-
Oh, its and issue whether you PERSONALLY want it to be or not. I don't think the evangelical base will be too please with this example of moral values or responsible parenting. ;)
I hate to agree, that this non issue is an issue. But are we to assume that moral values will now come into play, when Obama's past relationships have been brushed off?
This is going to be interesting - (why do we keep saying this, haha)
-
the evangelicals are either voting mccain our arent voting at all and your only looking at the bad side as well benny. This could be looked at as a mother who is standing by her family values and not aborting the child even though it may make things easier on them.
-
Either way...its a story but not news. The media will hit it from all sides. Obama himself wants the press to back off that side of it. But the dem's will continue this bullshit because they're scared.
-
But the dem's will continue this bullshit because they're scared.
hahaha!
Scared of what...Palin has virtually handed the Dems the election.
-
Ok dude, ur amazing gift for political foresight is uncanny. Unfortunatly nobody from ur own worthless party agree's with u. She's racking in the cash. She's fired up the Republican base and most importantly, nobody is talking about the Obamessiah.
-
I wonder if the baby will be white? I'm just sayin'.
hahah ;D
-
Ok dude, ur amazing gift for political foresight is uncanny. Unfortunatly nobody from ur own worthless party agree's with u.
Really? ::)
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM! ;D
Barack Obama Campaign Spokesman Bill Burton responds to John McCain's choice of Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his running mate:
"Today, John McCain put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency. Governor Palin shares John McCain's commitment to overturning Roe v. Wade, the agenda of Big Oil and continuing George Bush's failed economic policies -- that's not the change we need, it's just more of the same."
Sen. Chuck Schumer says:
"After the great success of the Democratic convention, the choice of Sarah Palin is surely a Hail Mary pass. It is a real roll of the dice and shows how John McCain, Karl Rove et al realize what a strong position the Obama-Biden team and Democrats in general are in in this election. Certainly the choice of Palin puts to rest any argument about inexperience on the Democratic team and while Palin is a fine person, her lack of experience makes the thought of her assuming the presidency troubling. I particularly look forward to the Biden-Palin debate in Missouri."
Rep. Rahm Emanuel:
"Is this really who the Republican Party wants to be one heartbeat away from the Presidency? Given Sarah Palin's lack of experience on every front and on nearly every issue, this Vice Presidential pick doesn't show judgment: it shows political panic."
Rep. Jim Clyburn on South Carolina ETV Radio:
"I do believe that McCain has to do something to reshuffle the cards, shake up the establishment, do something unexpected and Governor Palin has all the kinds of things that McCain might see as a way to shake things up. I think [her selection] would be something similar to Dan Quayle. Dan Quayle proved to be sort of an embarrassment as a campaigner. Being thrust on a national stage like that could be very tough. Now Mondale tried to shake things up by going with Geraldine Ferraro.she proved to be a disaster as a running mate. And as a campaigner, she was absolutely awful. And so I just think that it is very risky for McCain to do this, but it may be all he has left."
Meanwhile, the non-partisan group Campaign Money Watch responded that the pick underscores McCain's loss of maverick reformer credentials:
"In choosing Governor Palin, Senator McCain is clearly trying to shore up his past maverick reformer image - an image that is now in tatters due to the type of campaign he's run and the big money lobbyists he depends on every day of the week," Donnelly said.
"This selection raises plenty of questions," Donnelly continued. "She bills herself as a reformer, but has been silent on whether she supports public financing of elections in her own state. As governor of an oil-producing state, she's been a friend to Big Oil. Given John McCain's extensive fundraising from Big Oil, her selection raises concerns of whether the McCain-Palin ticket will promise the same access for oil companies and their lobbyists that we've seen for nearly eight years from the Bush-Cheney administration."
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANG!
There was a TV ad for deodorant that said, "Never let them see you sweat." The John McCain campaign has just showed the world that it is drenched.
Selecting Sarah Palin as its choice for a vice presidential candidate is perhaps the worst such choice in American History. To be fair, maybe there are worse choices, but I don't know how bad William O. Butler was when he ran with Lewis Cass against Zachary Taylor.
But it's far worse than Dan Quayle, who was a sitting senator. Worse even than Geraldine Ferraro, who at least served in Congress for three-terms. And far worse than William Miller, a choice so obscure when selected by Barry Goldwater that he (honestly) later did an American Express commercial asking, "Do you know me?" And that ad was after the election. But even Miller had been a Congressman for 12 years. And been a prosecutor during the Nuremberg War trials against Nazis. Sarah Palin lists her credits as a hockey mom.
There was a point during the Republican primaries when I was trying to figure out who I hoped got the presidential nomination. Someone so weak he'd be easy for the Democrats to beat, or someone more challenging who at least wouldn't be a disaster for America. I decided on the latter because America has to resolve its serious problems and can't afford risking some glitch where another George Bush got elected. And so I felt that John McCain, for all his weaknesses, was the lesser of all evils and was glad he got the nomination. Throw that out the window. McCain-Palin is an unthinkable disaster.
I completely understand the reasoning behind the decision for John McCain to select Sarah Palin. Absolutely. It's the thinking that settled on Sarah Palin that's missing.
No doubt John McCain will get some women to vote for him who wouldn't have otherwise, and even some independents. But he will also probably lose as many Republicans uncomfortable with a woman on the ticket - let alone a woman with so little experience as Sarah Palin. Not to mention that the choice will cause many undecided Democratic women to be aghast and push them back to following their Democratic beliefs. And further, it will lose all the independents who look at the GOP ticket and say "This is who I'm supposed to give my vote for the next four years to lead and protect America??" It may even appeal to right-wing evangelicals for her strong pro-life stance and get some to vote - but that position and others related to it are specifically what loses even more women voters. And men. Ultimately, the nomination will lose far, far more votes than it gains.
But this is not the reason the decision is so terrible.
It's always said that the most important decision a presidential candidate makes is their pick for vice president. It shows their thinking and judgment. John McCain, in his first decision, has just told the world that he believes Sarah Palin is the most qualified person to be a heartbeat from the presidency. Forgetting all the available men for a moment, if John McCain felt it critical to select a woman in an effort to somehow grab the Hillary Clinton supporters, look at his choice of women he had available: Christine Todd Whitman, Kay Bailey Hutchison, Elizabeth Dole, Susan Collins, even - for goodness sake - Condoleezza Rice. Or Carly Fiorina. Each of these have marks against them, and perhaps some might not have wanted to run, but it's near-impossible to look at the list and suggest to the American public that Sarah Palin is the best choice of Republican women to be vice president. And again, this is ignoring the men he who could have been chosen.
It's not that Sarah Palin is inexperienced. It's that this is gross political misconduct.
Sarah Palin has been governor of Alaska for just a bit over 18 months. Alaska has a population of 683,000. (Though that doesn't include moose.) This would only make it the 17th most populous city in the United States. Just ahead of Fort Worth.
Before that, she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska. Population 9,000. I know Republicans like to promote "small town values," but this is taking things to ridiculous extremes, don't you think? I'm from Glencoe, Illinois, population 8,762. It's so small it doesn't even have a mayor, it has an appointed village manager. I'm sure that Paul Harlow is doing wonderfully at his job in the village - but I don't expect that he sees himself as even wanting to be a heartbeat from the U.S. President in 18 months. You know what the top news story is on the Glencoe website? "Fire Hydrant Painting Underway." (To be fair, it's the #2 story. The top news is a clarification about displaying political signage.)
Do you know what the first two "powers and duties" are for the mayor of Wasilla, Alaska? Check their municipal code:
1. Preside at council meetings. The mayor may take part in the discussion of matters before the council, but may not vote, except that the mayor may vote in the case of a tie;
2. Act as ceremonial head of the city;
Swell.
If you live in small town America (and I mean really, really small), look around you and be honest - do you see your mayor (or village manager) as a heartbeat from the presidency in 18 months?
But that's not the reason either that the decision to make Sarah Palin the VP nominee is so terrible.
It's one thing to discuss how unqualified Sarah Palin is. That's a national matter and huge. But on a grassroots political level, her nomination takes away the Republicans' ONLY weapon in the campaign - calling Barack Obama inexperienced. They haven't even been trying to run on the issues, or on the eight-year record of George Bush, which John McCain has supported almost 95% of the time. They've only been running on the faux-issue of Barack Obama's experience of 14 years in federal and state government. Yes, Sarah Palin is merely running for VP, not president, but with a 72 year-old candidate with a history of serious medical issues, this is who they're saying is able to step in as president in a heart-beat. She has so little experience that she makes Sen. Obama look like FDR, Winston Churchill and Julius Caesar combined. So, the Republicans pulled the rug out from under themselves. They have no issues. The economy? Housing? The national debt? Education? The Environment? Iraq? Afghanistan? Nothing. All they have is "Dear Democratic women: please pretend our VP candidate is Hillary Clinton. Just forget that she's pro-life. And against most things Democrats stand for."
But that's not the reason the decision is so terrible.
Because if the hope for John McCain is to get women to vote for him who otherwise supported Hillary Clinton - if anything could get Hillary Clinton campaigning in full force and fury...this is it. She likely would have campaigned hard, but it's in Hillary Clinton's best interest to be the leading voice for women, and the leading woman candidate for president in the future, so having another woman as the potential Vice President (and potential President) is a significant challenge to that. The Republicans just opened Pandora's Box and brought Hillary Clinton roaring to Barack Obama's side on the Democratic train. And Bill Clinton, too.
Yet even that's not the reason the decision is so terrible.
What this does in the most profound and grandiose way possible is give lie to John McCain's pompous posturing that he Always Puts America First. And that undercuts the most prominent campaign issue of his entire career, that everything he does is for reasons of honor. There is nothing honorable about making Sarah Palin your vice presidential nominee. Nothing. Unless you define honor as "blatantly pandering."
But that's not the reason either that this decision is so terrible.
But before we get to that, let's look at the actual announcement to make Gov. Sarah Palin (AK - pop. 683,000) the Republican nominee for president, and put the horrible decision in perspective.
First, John McCain stood at the podium, looking up-and-down reading his speech. It's impossible not to compare that to Barack Obama giving his majestic speech the night before that even conservative analysts were admiring in awe.
Second, the cameras were polite enough to avoid it, but there were empty seats in the gym. It's impossible not to compare that to a stadium of 75,000 people that Barack Obama spoke to the night before.
Third, when people around the nation were waiting to hear about Sarah Palin's qualifications and gravitas to be Vice President of the United States, the first five minutes of her speech were spent talking about her husband being a champion snowmobiler.
Fourth, when she finally got around to her qualifications, pretty much all we discovered was that she fought to cut property taxes. And then, she basically stopped there.
She did, however, mention becoming energy self-sufficient - by talking about how she supported drilling in Alaska!!! Perhaps to Republicans this is being an environmentalist, but to most of America, not so much. Then again, she's also against putting polar bears on the endangered species list (which the government did), so maybe her environmental qualifications are more lax than she thinks.
And then, finally, she spent the rest of her time praising John McCain. Fine, that's very supportive of her...except that the one question on everyone's mind was not -- "can you say John McCain is a swell guy and tell us that he was a POW", the question on everyone's mind was - "Who in God's name are you, and please tell us why you should be a heart-beat from the presidency?"
In the end, the only case she herself made for being on the ticket was praising Hillary Clinton! That's it, period. Now, it might be enough to attract some women -- but it doesn't make a case for the ticket. Why? Hint: some women did vote for Hillary Clinton solely because she was a woman. But most women voted for Hillary Clinton because she was a Democrat, as well as a woman, who stood for important Democratic values they seriously believed in. If Sarah Palin wants to praise Hillary Clinton, go for it. But at least understand what you're praising. Because it will likely come back and bite you.
It was a thin, nothing, empty speech. It was a speech to be head of the Chamber of Commerce. Compare that to the speech by Joe Biden when Barack Obama introduced him. Eloquent, soaring and explaining in blunt detail why John McCain should not be president. Joe Biden must have been watching Sarah Palin's speech, in order to take notes in preparation for his debate with her and thought, "This isn't fair."
And all that's not even the reason the decision is so terrible.
The reason is because the election is not about Sarah Palin. Or about Joe Biden. As much as TV analysts want to be excited by the balloons and hoopla, tomorrow the air will be let out, and there are still over two months to go for the campaign.
The campaign is about Barack Obama and John McCain.
Sarah Palin's nomination doesn't change that. In fact, it reinforces it. Nothing about putting Sarah Palin on the GOP ticket changes a word that Barack Obama said in his vibrant acceptance speech - about himself, about his issues, and about John McCain's repeatedly faulty judgment on the critical issues facing America.
What Sarah Palin's nomination does do is focus attention on John McCain's age. Indeed, the nomination was made on his birthday, when he turned 72, the oldest man ever to run for president. As the crowd sang "Happy Birthday to You," you almost sensed that through John McCain's clenched smile, saying, "Thanks for reminding me," that what he was thinking underneath was "Please, oh, please, don't sing the 'How old are you now?' part." And how good a message was it that he's saying he supposedly forgot it was his birthday?
Vice presidents are usually selected as people who are adept at blasting the other side's presidential candidate, because it's only the presidential candidate that matters. Joe Biden has already done that - twice - at length, spoken as someone who knows John McCain well and likes him. Sarah Palin had her first chance...and whiffed. Didn't even try. And it's hard to imagine what she has in her arsenal that will remotely allow her to do so in the future.
The election is about the presidential candidates. And the selection of Sarah Palin now allows Barack Obama to campaign untouched by the Republican ticket. John McCain's only other option is for himself to personally become negative for two months - which is disaster in presidential politics.
Now add on all the problems expressed above. Sarah Palin's inexplicably laughable lack of substance, most-especially on the foreign policy stage. Her taking away the one issue, experience, Republicans were even attempting. Her pushing away voters who might otherwise be willing to vote for a senator with 26 years in the Senate. Her bringing Hillary Clinton aggressively back into the campaign. Her inability to offer anything to off-set Joe Biden. Her standing as supposedly the most-qualified Republican woman as John McCain's first decision.
And, in the end, it all focuses back on Barack Obama, with his indictment of eight years of the Bush Administration and of John McCain's flawed judgment - and John McCain's defense of all that.
Republicans might be dancing earlier today, because there was a lot of fun music playing. But the music has stopped. The actual campaign has now started. For Republicans, it might have ended.
She's racking in the cash. She's fired up the Republican base and most importantly, nobody is talking about the Obamessiah.
Errr...18,000 people turned out to see Obama-Biden Saturday. When will McCain EVER get such an audience? ::)
I also see NOBODY is talking about the RNC on the cable news networks today, either. Pity. ;D
DUBLIN — On a sunny football Saturday, an estimated 18,000 screaming fans jammed the stands and crowded onto the playing field of a high school football stadium in this Columbus suburb to cheer on the Obama-Biden team.
"O-H," Barack Obama shouted in Dublin Coffman stadium. The crowd roared back "I-O."
Democrats Obama and Joe Biden, his vice presidential running mate, brought their "On the Road to Change" battleground state bus tour here on Saturday, Aug. 30, to talk presidential politics.
It was Obama's sixth campaign swing to Ohio since Hillary Clinton conceded the nomination on June 7 and his first since last week's Democratic National Convention.
As the sun slowly set, Obama asked the crowd to help him enlist not just Democrats but also Republicans and independents in the crusade to change America.
"If you believe me, I promise you that we will not just win Ohio, we will win this election, you and I and Joe Biden, we will change this country and we will change the world," Obama said.
He cast Republican John McCain as out of touch for saying the economy was making progress and as President Bush's partner. They have a philosophy that expects you to pull yourselves up by your bootstraps "even if you don't have boots," Obama said.
On energy reform, he called McCain "Dr. No" and promised to create jobs investing in solar and wind power and other alternative energy programs.
Former U.S. Sen. John Glenn introduced Obama in his first public appearance with Obama after supporting Clinton in the primary.
"We need change in this country and Ohio, and Barack is committed to policies that I believe will move this country forward," Glenn said.
Gov. Ted Strickland and U.S. Sen. Sherrod Brown warmed up the crowd. Supporters came from as far away as Zanesville and the Dayton area.
Jennifer Alexander of Greene County supported Clinton in the primary but now backs Obama. Alexander isn't impressed with Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, McCain's running mate.
"They could have picked off any woman off any street corner and it would have been more appealing to women," she said.
In a conference call, Frank Donatelli, Republican National Committee deputy chairman, mocked Obama's call for change. McCain and Palin form a "ticket of reform," Donatelli said.
"Nobody knows what change means," he said. "But reform means you understand the problem and you have a strategy to deal with it."
-
Yeah...all this came out the day she was annouched. Again if u knew anything about the media and politics u'd realize that Pallin was the worst case senario for the Dems, who were well prepared for Romney or anybody else he might have picked. The ill prepared response from the Obama campaign proves it. What has dipshit done...nothing... yet they make the same argument about Pallin..good job. We could go round and round all day ....but in the end U'd be wrong, stupid and a puss. So give it up.
-
Yeah...all this came out the day she was annouched. Again if u knew anything about the media and politics u'd realize that Pallin was the worst case senario for the Dems...
bwahaha!
One thing I do "realize" by this quote is that you are a moron of the highest order.
who were well prepared for Romney or anybody else he might have picked. The ill prepared response from the Obama campaign proves it. What has dipshit done...nothing... yet they make the same argument about Pallin..good job. We could go round and round all day ....but in the end U'd be wrong, stupid and a puss. So give it up.
Sorry GI Joe, but I'm not "giving up" jack shit. This VP pick was an irresponsible, reckless choice that reeks of desperation. It will blow up in the repubes faces after Palin makes her first gaffe on one of several issues she knows nothing about. The will go down as the worst...vp...choice...ev er.
-
Ok Benny! Sure thing......The dems are quaking.
-
Would be a non issue, if she didn't have such strong views.
I see her "abstinence only" education plan worked terrible at home. Not being snide, I am serious.
-
Would be a non issue, if she didn't have such strong views.
I see her "abstinence only" education plan worked terrible at home. Not being snide, I am serious.
Great point and probably a good example of the kind of the poor judgement we can expect from her as a leader.
Here's her response to the question of sex education during her campaign for govenor:
Q: Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics, and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?
SP: Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support.
http://eagleforumalaska.blogspot.com/2006/07/2006-gubernatorial-candidate.html
-
Ok Benny! Sure thing......The dems are quaking.
"Quaking" over this chick with no experience? ::)
Do you have a bump in the polls to substantiate this? Right now, all I see is this:
http://www.pollster.com (You better hope McBush steals some states he's currently losing)
AND
September 1st gallup poll
PRINCETON, NJ -- Gallup's first tracking report based entirely on post-Democratic convention attitudes shows Barack Obama maintaining a six percentage point lead over John McCain, the same as Sunday's report. According to interviews conducted Aug. 29-31, national registered voters prefer Obama 49% to 43%.
(http://media.gallup.com/poll/graphs/080901DailyUpdateGraph1_ck04oak.gif)
-
Great point and probably a good example of the kind of the poor judgement we can expect from her as a leader.
Here's her response to the question of sex education during her campaign for govenor:
Q: Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics, and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?
SP: Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support.
http://eagleforumalaska.blogspot.com/2006/07/2006-gubernatorial-candidate.html
Yeah but u'll never hear from her or Biden. And while I disagree, atleast they're good points. See Benny...civil discourse.
-
Zogby Poll: Equilibrium in the POTUS Race!
UTICA, New York - Republican John McCain's surprise announcement Friday of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate - some 16 hours after Democrat Barack Obama's historic speech accepting his party’s presidential nomination - has possibly stunted any Obama convention bump, the latest Zogby Interactive flash poll of the race shows.
Data from this poll is available here
The latest nationwide survey, begun Friday afternoon after the McCain announcement of Palin as running mate and completed mid-afternoon today, shows McCain/Palin at 47%, compared to 45% support for Obama/Biden.
In other words, the race is a dead heat.
The interactive online Zogby survey shows that both Obama and McCain have solidified the support among their own parties - Obama won 86% support of Democrats and McCain 89% of Republicans in a two-way head-to-head poll question not including the running mates. When Biden and Palin are added to the mix, Obama's Democratic support remains at 86%, while McCain's increases to 92%.
Ur point..oh yeah six whole points ::)
-
do you know what an interactive flash poll is, shit-for-brains?
-
Yeah but u'll never hear from her or Biden. And while I disagree, atleast they're good points. See Benny...civil discourse.
never hear from her or Biden on what?
-
Q: Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics, and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?
SP: Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support.
http://eagleforumalaska.blogspot.com/2006/07/2006-gubernatorial-candidate.html
Exactly.
Her first daughter to reach the age where she could be pregnant, and a gigantic fail for her home abstinence only education. Massive epic fail.
And I wonder of she is do delusional to think the 18 yr old son is going to practice that? Nice looking young guy for one, I am sure the young girls like him and be real he's a army guy. Yeah, I'm sure he sits around practicing abstinence ::)
Plus, makes the whole "mom vote" worse now for many reasons. I do NOT agree with this, but many will see this as a parental failure. Those more level headed like me, know this young girl really needs her mom now to support her. I was a 17yr old mom myself, and no way without my parents would have I made it through. I bless them daily for it.
So she has a 4 month old downs baby who needs extra care, a 8yr old child, two more fairly young kids, a pregnant teenage daughter - but plans to put the job of VP first before her kids? Or does she plan to do a crappy job as VP? One or the other will happen.
Either way, as a mom she needs to bugger off and give her kids the attention they need.
-
Palin told McCain about baby last week
Posted: 03:15 PM ET
From CNN Ticker Producer Alexander Mooney
(CNN) — Top McCain adviser Steve Schmidt said Monday that newly-minted Republican VP candidate Sarah Palin informed John McCain of her daughter's pregnancy in one of their "private conversations" last week.
McCain aides insist the Arizona Republican already knew about the pregnancy prior to that conversation, having found out earlier during the lengthy vetting process.
"She was very upfront about it," one aide said.
Speaking with reporters, Schmidt also said McCain expected the pregnancy would eventually become public, as did Palin.
"Obviously people would know because she’s going to have a baby that she was pregnant," Schmidt said. "What we want to see happen is the privacy of Governor Palin’s daughter respected. And that’s what Senator McCain wants."
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/
It's a little presumptuous for anyone to call her parents a failure because this kid got pregnant, particularly if you've never raised teenagers. None of us knows what goes on behind closed doors.
-
I would expect nothig less
It would be much worse if she didn't tell him about it
-
I think we all know Mccain is a man of honor, and wouldn't lie about this.
Any belief to the contrary is unfounded CTism, and will be mocked.
-
It's a little presumptuous for anyone to call her parents a failure because this kid got pregnant, particularly if you've never raised teenagers. None of us knows what goes on behind closed doors.
Agree totally. People will though.
I will say the obvious though - her 'abstinence only' sex education proved to be a brutal failure on the homefront. That is undeniable.
-
Agree totally. People will though.
I will say the obvious though - her 'abstinence only' sex education proved to be a brutal failure on the homefront. That is undeniable.
Really? So if she would have given her daughter condoms or put her on the pill should wouldn't have had sex and wouldn't have gotten pregnant?
We don't know what failed. Could have been the parents. Could have been the training. Could have been a hardheaded teenager. None of us knows.
-
Really? So if she would have given her daughter condoms or put her on the pill should wouldn't have had sex and wouldn't have gotten pregnant?
We don't know what failed. Could have been the parents. Could have been the training. Could have been a hardheaded teenager. None of us knows.
I am sure was just a teen being a teen....
If she wasn't a politician and didn't have unrealistic positions with abstinence education it is a no mind.
It can happen to anyone, I am not slamming her, but her position on sex ed is my issue - preaching abstinence only sex ed while your teen daughter is pregnant simply comes across strange.
-
Mccain and Palin both decided it was a good thing to thrust an unwed pregnant teenager into the national media spotlight for the sake of an election?
This is probably the scariest aspect of this whole ordeal.
-
I am sure was just a teen being a teen....
If she wasn't a politician and didn't have unrealistic positions with abstinence education it is a no mind.
It can happen to anyone, I am not slamming her, but her position on sex ed is my issue - preaching abstinence only sex ed while your teen daughter is pregnant simply comes across strange.
I think it just means they are human.
I don't believe teaching abstinence is unrealistic. Too many of us have this view that kids are like animals in heat with no self control. I know many parents who have taught abstinence. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. The key question for me is what is the right thing to do?
-
Mccain and Palin both decided it was a good thing to thrust an unwed pregnant teenager into the national media spotlight for the sake of an election?
This is probably the scariest aspect of this whole ordeal.
Actually they were responding to people like you spreading rumors about Palin faking a pregnancy.
-
Mccain and Palin both decided it was a good thing to thrust an unwed pregnant teenager into the national media spotlight for the sake of an election?
This is probably the scariest aspect of this whole ordeal.
::)
That honor goes to liberal bloggers and you 240
-
Hahaha. the saddest two posts in the history of the internet . . . congratulations dumbass and douche.
-
::)
That honor goes to liberal bloggers and you 240
She may well be completely telling the truth. But:
If the baby is hers, then she admittedly spent 17 hours speaking, chatting, and FLYING, after her water broke, with a pre-mature Downs Syndrome child. She's already disqualified herself on the grounds of lack of common sense.
Click on this map to read it more clearly. These are her own ADMITTED actions. Does this appear to be a woman with good decision-making skills?
-
I think it just means they are human.
I don't teaching abstinence is unrealistic. Too many of us have this view that kids are like animals in heat with no self control. I know many parents who have taught abstinence. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. The key question for me is what is the right thing to do?
I don't think any decent parent wants their kid sleeping around, but how many people *really* wait till they are married nowadays? Not that I condone "fornication" but really, it is how things go nowadays most times.
Whichever way anyone shoves it, it is hard to appear as having the best positions on preventing teen pregnancy with a pregnant teen child yourself :-\
-
I don't think any decent parent wants their kid sleeping around, but how many people *really* wait till they are married nowadays? Not that I condone "fornication" but really, it is how things go nowadays most times.
Whichever way anyone shoves it, it is hard to appear as having the best positions on preventing teen pregnancy with a pregnant teen child yourself :-\
Lots of teenagers have sex. Many do not.
I guess it depends on your perspective. You could also say that any parent who gives his or her teenager condoms, and the teenager subsequently gets pregnant, can no longer credibly promote distribution of condoms to teenagers.
-
Lots of teenagers have sex. Many do not.
I guess it depends on your perspective. You could also say that any parent who gives his or her teenager condoms, and the teenager subsequently gets pregnant, can no longer credibly promote distribution of condoms to teenagers.
Blah, blah, blah... quit spending so much time on here and go check on your daughter
-
My only thing is - Palin simply cannot position herself as having good ideas on preventing teen pregnancies and expect ppl to take that with a straight face.
-
My only thing is - Palin simply cannot position herself as having good ideas on preventing teen pregnancies and expect ppl to take that with a straight face.
Don't get caught deceived by DM's bullshit. This woman is the Focus on the Family candidate (as Dobson himself put it)... and by golly, we're going to focus on her family.
-
My only thing is - Palin simply cannot position herself as having good ideas on preventing teen pregnancies and expect ppl to take that with a straight face.
Understood. I guess I've been around enough parents and teens to know there are too many variables. And like I said earlier, it comes down to the proper message we should be sending to kids. Palin shouldn't stop advocating the right approach just because her daughter got pregnant.
-
I think it just means they are human.
I don't believe teaching abstinence is unrealistic. Too many of us have this view that kids are like animals in heat with no self control. I know many parents who have taught abstinence. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. The key question for me is what is the right thing to do?
The reason for that view is often because ADULTS act like animals in heat with no self-control. The grownups can't stop screwing around and figure the teens can't, either.
-
The reason for that view is often because ADULTS act like animals in heat with no self-control. The grownups can't stop screwing around and figure the teens can't, either.
Sad but true. :-\
-
Understood. I guess I've been around enough parents and teens to know there are too many variables. And like I said earlier, it comes down to the proper message we should be sending to kids. Palin shouldn't stop advocating the right approach just because her daughter got pregnant.
I agree, it can always happen. The best parents in the world can get bad luck at times. Perception is reality though....
-
I agree, it can always happen. The best parents in the world can get bad luck at times. Perception is reality though....
It certainly is. :-\
-
It certainly is. :-\
It certainly is. ;D
-
My only thing is - Palin simply cannot position herself as having good ideas on preventing teen pregnancies and expect ppl to take that with a straight face.
Based on what?
Let’s reverse the situation. Say that Palin believes in “comprehensive sex education” gave her daughter some rubbers to give to her boyfriend and they later decided NOT TO USE THEM, before getting freaky.
Does that mean that she can’t talk about “comprehensive sex education anymore”?
A "good idea" to keep teens from getting pregnant is having them NOT ENGAGE in the activity that causes pregnancy (i.e. sexual intercourse).
Whatever sexual education she got, it wasn't heeded. Hence, the reason's she got knocked up.
-
Based on what?
You make very valid points MCWAY, but general perception simply won't go her way.
300lb obese personal trainers don't seem credible - they may know their stuff, won't seem credible to most people.
A mom whose teen daughter is knocked up, doesn't seem credible on the topic of preventing it to many people.
-
Oh, its and issue whether you PERSONALLY want it to be or not. I don't think the evangelical base will be too please with this example of moral values or responsible parenting. ;)
Is Palin a God-Bot?
I PERSONALLY don't care.
It doesn't change my opinion of either of the asshats running for POTUS.
This only seems to be a grave matter of concern to Obama's rabid fanbase.
-
This only seems to be a grave matter of concern to Obama's rabid fanbase.
Just adds to the "mom voter" concern in some cases. Whether a mom with 5 kids - including a special needs baby, other young kids, a pregnant teenager really has priorities well in place.
I do NOT but some people [especially some older generation women] may think that she should have been paying more attention to the kid, and she wouldn't have gotten pregnant. I hear that about teen moms alot, parents are blamed.
-
You make very valid points MCWAY, but general perception simply won't go her way.
300lb obese personal trainers don't seem credible - they may know their stuff, won't seem credible to most people.
Hey, the personal trainers at Bally aren't that big. Two of the aerobic instructors, on the other hand...........
A mom whose teen daughter is knocked up, doesn't seem credible on the topic of preventing it to many people.
It wouldn't have matter what type of sex education Gov. Palin backed. Her daughter didn't abstain; she didn't have her boyfriend use a rubber, nor was she gulping down birth-control pills.
-
Just adds to the "mom voter" concern in some cases. Whether a mom with 5 kids - including a special needs baby, other young kids, a pregnant teenager really has priorities well in place.
I do NOT but some people [especially some older generation women] may think that she should have been paying more attention to the kid, and she wouldn't have gotten pregnant. I hear that about teen moms alot, parents are blamed.
Then they're fools or hypocrites.
The right needs to acknowledge that people will do what they want. The best you can do is try to teach them well. A parent can only do so much. You give them the tools teach them and send them on their way. In the end people make their own choices and have to deal with the fallout.
The left can't have it both ways. They can't tell women to be strong and independent career women then get on them if they don't measure up to their standards of super mom. You're a mother, CQ. Raising children is a lot of work. It's even harder when you try to balance that will a full time job let alone try to run a state.
-
I don't see this as a direct parenting failure because you only have so much control over your kids, particularly these days. My parents taught me well, and I was cautious most of the time but still made some bad decisions cause I was a teenage male who was a little hard to restrain at times.
Sounds like this was her boyfriend, she is going to have the baby and get married. Thats RESPONSIBLE unlike what happens with so many teenage pregnancies. I find it unfortunate that the daughter is pregnant at 17, but it doesn't affect my opinion of Palin. I am relieved to see the family is supporting the daughter and she will be getting married. 17 & 18 year olds have gotten pregnant since the beginning of time. Its how they deal with the pregnancy thats most important! Thats what should be important.
-
Then they're fools or hypocrites.
The right needs to acknowledge that people will do what they want. The best you can do is try to teach them well. A parent can only do so much. You give them the tools teach them and send them on their way. In the end people make their own choices and have to deal with the fallout.
The left can't have it both ways. They can't tell women to be strong and independent career women then get on them if they don't measure up to their standards of super mom. You're a mother, CQ. Raising children is a lot of work. It's even harder when you try to balance that will a full time job let alone try to run a state.
Agree, great points, especially about the "lot of work" and I only have one ;D
Which I why I feel with 5 kids, one special needs, one pregnant - there is no way she has the time to do both effectively. One will suffer, and neither choice is optimal :-\
Equal rights for women is great and needed, but if we as women make the choice to have even 1 kid, let alone 5...we really should put them first. If one wants to be career mad great - do it before or after kids, or do a medium demanding career. Many parents will question this, and it's not as she is female. If Obama had 3 more kids, one pregnant and one special needs - I would think he needs to get his ass home and be a dad.
And Shoot - I agree, no way should parents be blamed. Like you, I had great parents and I've made errors.
-
I don't see this as a direct parenting failure because you only have so much control over your kids, particularly these days. My parents taught me well, and I was cautious most of the time but still made some bad decisions cause I was a teenage male who was a little hard to restrain at times.
Sounds like this was her boyfriend, she is going to have the baby and get married. Thats RESPONSIBLE unlike what happens with so many teenage pregnancies. I find it unfortunate that the daughter is pregnant at 17, but it doesn't affect my opinion of Palin. I am relieved to see the family is supporting the daughter and she will be getting married. 17 & 18 year olds have gotten pregnant since the beginning of time. Its how they deal with the pregnancy thats most important! Thats what should be important.
Oh yeah, getting married at 17 is a brilliant decision.
And nothing has changed in human culture since the beginning of time. Maybe Levi will bring Todd some cows in exchange for her daughter. ::)
-
Oh yeah, getting married at 17 is a brilliant decision.
And nothing has changed in human culture since the beginning of time. Maybe Levi will bring Todd some cows in exchange for her daughter. ::)
Democratic presidential nominee Sen. Barack Obama issued this response to news of McCain running mate Gov. Sarah Palin's announcement that her teen daughter Bristol is pregnant:
"Let me be a clear as possible: I have said before and I will repeat again, I think people's families are off limits, and people's children are especially off limits," said Obama. "This shouldn't be part of our politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin's performance as a governor or her potential performance as a vice president.
"I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories," Obama continued. "My mother had me when she was 18, and how family deals with issues and teenage children -- that shouldn't be the topic of our politics and I hope that anybody who's supporting me understands that's off limits."
When a journalist followed up by referring to McCain campaign charges that liberal blogs, some even tied to Obama, were behind rumors about Palin, the Illinois senator interjected, "I am offended by that statement. There is no evidence at all that any of this involved us.
"I hope I am as clear as can be, so in case I'm not, let me repeat: We don't go after people's families, we don't get them involved in the politics," Obama continued. "It's not appropriate and it's not relevant.
"Our people were not involved in any way in this and they will not be. And if I ever thought that it was somebody in my campaign that was involved in something like that, they'd be fired," closed Obama before departing.
Like Obama said, his mother was only 18 when she had him. She also married the man.
Epic fail on her part or is there a dramatic difference between the maturity of a 17 and 18 year old girl?
-
Its a good decision when you have a child! The error was already made in having a child too early but a greater mistake is to raise the child with one parent if there's a possibility of a family. There should be more pressure for people to take more responsibility if there is a pregnancy. We have too many unwed single moms where the guys are irresponsible & bolt.
CQ has only of the only legitimate objections I have heard (outside Palin being light on experience). She has 5 children. If the husband will be a stay at home dad, or only works very part-time, I find it acceptible. 5 kids and both parents working outside the home, with a downs newborn...not acceptible. I guess its better that two of her kids really aren't kids anymore but she still has younger ones at home.
-
Its a good decision when you have a child! The error was already made in having a child too early but a greater mistake is to raise the child with one parent. There should be more pressure for people to take more responsibility if there is a pregnancy. We have too many unwed mothers where the guys (kids) bolt.
CQ has only of the only legitimate objections I have heard (outside Palin being light on experience). She has 5 children. If the husband will be a stay at home dad, or only works very part-time, I find it acceptible. 5 kids and both parents working outside the home, with a downs newborn...not acceptible. I guess its better that two of her kids really aren't kids anymore but she still has younger ones at home.
I've read reports that he stays home to take care of the kids.
-
Its a good decision when you have a child! The error was already made in having a child too early but a greater mistake is to raise the child with one parent if there's a possibility of a family. There should be more pressure for people to take more responsibility if there is a pregnancy. We have too many unwed mothers where the guys are irresponsible & bolt.
CQ has only of the only legitimate objections I have heard (outside Palin being light on experience). She has 5 children. If the husband will be a stay at home dad, or only works very part-time, I find it acceptible. 5 kids and both parents working outside the home, with a downs newborn...not acceptible. I guess its better that two of her kids really aren't kids anymore but she still has younger ones at home.
They only have one that needs full-time care.
-
Really? So if she would have given her daughter condoms or put her on the pill should wouldn't have had sex and wouldn't have gotten pregnant?
We don't know what failed. Could have been the parents. Could have been the training. Could have been a hardheaded teenager. None of us knows.
Bum - the answer to your question is NO and then YES
contraception would not have prevented them from having sex but it would have prevented her from getting pregnant.
that's the point of contraception
the reason condoms or the pill work much better is because they are reliable and more importantly they take much less effort
abstinence not required
-
One thing I am curious about - which seems dodgy to me...is why not say it right away? Would have seemed less "unseeming". If she is 5 months, she'll be ready to blow by election time so no way could it be a secret.
When she was announced, why not say 5 kids, a grandchild on the way from her daughter Bristol who is engaged, slap an enagement ring on the kid and it all would have looked better for perception. 17 may be young, but that would have looked better...recalling image matters.
Why wait - and release the info now? Thoughts anyone?
-
Bum - the answer to your question is NO and then YES
contraception would not have prevented them from having sex but it would have prevented her from getting pregnant.
that's the point of contraception
the reason condoms or the pill work much better is because they are reliable and more importantly they take much less effort
abstinence not required
LOL . . . I see. LOL. . . . You've never met a couple who produced a baby while on birth control? You need to talk to people about this.
-
One thing I am curious about - which seems dodgy to me...is why not say it right away? Would have seemed less "unseeming". If she is 5 months, she'll be ready to blow by election time so no way could it be a secret.
When she was announced, why not say 5 kids, a grandchild on the way from her daughter Bristol who is engaged, slap an enagement ring on the kid and it all would have looked better for perception. 17 may be young, but that would have looked better...recalling image matters.
Why wait - and release the info now? Thoughts anyone?
Because it's a private matter. They shouldn't have to "release" private family matters. The only reason they did was to dispel the nasty rumors about baby no. 5.
-
In my opinion, her daughter's pregnancy is more private CQ and she probably wanted the attention focused on her and McCain. This story with her daughter's pregnancy is newsworthy but not for more than a day or so. It would have been much different if she would have lied about something. Omitting a fact that has low relevence is not necessarily bad.
-
Exactly BB, even better than my answer. They probably released the info now in responce to the smearing that was going on about the Down's baby.
-
Because it's a private matter. They shouldn't have to "release" private family matters. The only reason they did was to dispel the nasty rumors about baby no. 5.
Being real, running for VP nothing is private. I agree it should be but really, they cover anything down to when they sneeze. Stupid, but how it goes ::)
Her mother choose to accept, knowing how the press rolls, it was going to be an issue obviously. Palin made that choice to thrust her children in the limelight, so why do it this way is what I wonder?
-
Exactly BB, even better than my answer. They probably released the info now in responce to the smearing that was going on about the Down's baby.
Why anyone would put themselves through the crap of running for office boggles the mind.
-
I know. Many of us want to make our country (or the world) better but stories like this show the contempt and selfishness of mankind. We should be able to disagree with respect and without digging up so much irrelevent dirt.
IMO, political relationships are fair game, but kids no.
-
Like Obama said, his mother was only 18 when she had him. She also married the man.
Epic fail on her part or is there a dramatic difference between the maturity of a 17 and 18 year old girl?
Obama's mother's marriage was a roaring success. ::) lasted all of what? two weeks?
What planet are you living on? ::)
-
No, Obama's mother's marriage was a roaring success.
What planet are you living on? ::)
You missed the point as usual.
Was it irresponsible on the part of Obama's mother to have him at 18?
Does it reflect poorly on her parents?
-
Honestly, yes it is not responsible or ideal to have a kid as a teenager - I *know* this. You can still do well, raise a great kid blah blah, but really it is not ideal. While others were in college, I was singing nursery rhymes. No regrets, she's my heart and I would do it again with joy, but would not reccomend it as the best option.
-
LOL . . . I see. LOL. . . . You've never met a couple who produced a baby while on birth control? You need to talk to people about this.
the first part of your question was whether giving her a condom would have prevented them from having sex (btw - weird question)
I didn't say that contraception was fool-proof but it works much more frequently than NOTHING which basically all that abstinence training offers.
As I'm sure you know, condoms and other forms of birth control work much better than nothing when people actually have sex
-
I didn't say that contraception was fool-proof but it works much more frequently than NOTHING which basically all that abstinence training offers.
Once again you contradict yourself in the same thread. ::)
contraception would not have prevented them from having sex but it would have prevented her from getting pregnant.
that's the point of contraception
-
Because it's a private matter. They shouldn't have to "release" private family matters. The only reason they did was to dispel the nasty rumors about baby no. 5.
No, the only thing they did was place into circulation a claim, designed to lessen the runaway rumor.
It may have "dispelled" it for you, but I'm thinking the investigators in Alaska right now aren't as easily convinced.
Also, she was wearing a ring on left ring finger on friday's appearance.
-
where's the contradiction?
-
No, the only thing they did was place into circulation a claim, designed to lessen the runaway rumor.
It may have "dispelled" it for you, but I'm thinking the investigators in Alaska right now aren't as easily convinced.
Also, she was wearing a ring on left ring finger on friday's appearance.
Investigators? Who the heck is investigating whether Palin's daughter is pregnant? Other than liberals trying to trash her?
-
where's the contradiction?
I went through the trouble of quoting your words. You figure it out.
-
Investigators? Who the heck is investigating whether Palin's daughter is pregnant? Other than liberals trying to trash her?
There are dozens of democrat vetters who flew to alaska yesterday. Nat'l Enquirer is putting their resources into it. Was nat'l Enquirer "liberals" when they trashed Edwards?
These are investigators doing the job Mccain SHOULD have done in the first place.
-
I went through the trouble of quoting your words. You figure it out.
you do understand that contraception doesn't prevent sex....right?
Really? So if she would have given her daughter condoms or put her on the pill should wouldn't have had sex and wouldn't have gotten pregnant?
We don't know what failed. Could have been the parents. Could have been the training. Could have been a hardheaded teenager. None of us knows.
-
There are dozens of democrat vetters who flew to alaska yesterday. Nat'l Enquirer is putting their resources into it. Was nat'l Enquirer "liberals" when they trashed Edwards?
These are investigators doing the job Mccain SHOULD have done in the first place.
So you admit that Democrats are trying to dig up dirt on Palin's family?
Not that I don't believe you, but what is your source indicating "dozens of democrat vetters" flew to Alaska yesterday?
-
So you admit that Democrats are trying to dig up dirt on Palin's family?
Not that I don't believe you, but what is your source indicating "dozens of democrat vetters" flew to Alaska yesterday?
I "admit"? WTF are you talking about? THEY admitted they were sending party officials up there to research her, as Mccain should have. Also there is a report that mccain just sent 8 people up, staying in 8 rooms at a wasilla hotel, to re-vet her a bit. http://www.unbossed.com/index.php?itemid=2237
When I see it again, i'll share it. I read about 25 or 30 different sites on this story today. Sorry, I don't know which one spoke of the flight.
Dude, you should really get with the program. There are hundreds of websites all putting together pieces of this puzzle. To declare it over because Rove made 1 statement is asinine.
Let the parties do their research, let's wait a week, and see what the conclusion is.
-
I "admit"? WTF are you talking about? THEY admitted they were sending party officials up there to research her, as Mccain should have. Also there is a report that mccain just sent 8 people up, staying in 8 rooms at a wasilla hotel, to re-vet her a bit. http://www.unbossed.com/index.php?itemid=2237
When I see it again, i'll share it. I read about 25 or 30 different sites on this story today. Sorry, I don't know which one spoke of the flight.
Dude, you should really get with the program. There are hundreds of websites all putting together pieces of this puzzle. To declare it over because Rove made 1 statement is asinine.
Let the parties do their research, let's wait a week, and see what the conclusion is.
You can't keep up with your own twisted posts. lol. Here is what you said:
There are dozens of democrat vetters who flew to alaska yesterday.
Now you say Republicans are going to vet her for the first. This after you made this post earlier today:
Rick Davis, McCain's campaign manager and the person at the point of the vice presidential process, said there was no abrupt change of course in the final hours. Nor, he said, was Palin selected without having gone through the full vetting process that was done for other finalists. That process included reviews of financial and other personal data, an FBI background check and considerable discussion among the handful of McCain advisers involved in the deliberations.
"Nobody was vetted less or more than anyone in the final stages, and John had access to all that information and made the decision," Davis said. "It's really not much more complicated than that."
As usual, you're all over the place.
-
So you admit that Democrats are trying to dig up dirt on Palin's family?
Of COURSE they are, dummy. That's the way intense political campaigns work...on BOTH sides.
And should the dems find something...Palin's toast. ;)
-
Really? ::)
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM! ;D
Barack Obama Campaign Spokesman Bill Burton responds to John McCain's choice of Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his running mate:
"Today, John McCain put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency. Governor Palin shares John McCain's commitment to overturning Roe v. Wade, the agenda of Big Oil and continuing George Bush's failed economic policies -- that's not the change we need, it's just more of the same."
Sen. Chuck Schumer says:
"After the great success of the Democratic convention, the choice of Sarah Palin is surely a Hail Mary pass. It is a real roll of the dice and shows how John McCain, Karl Rove et al realize what a strong position the Obama-Biden team and Democrats in general are in in this election. Certainly the choice of Palin puts to rest any argument about inexperience on the Democratic team and while Palin is a fine person, her lack of experience makes the thought of her assuming the presidency troubling. I particularly look forward to the Biden-Palin debate in Missouri."
Rep. Rahm Emanuel:
"Is this really who the Republican Party wants to be one heartbeat away from the Presidency? Given Sarah Palin's lack of experience on every front and on nearly every issue, this Vice Presidential pick doesn't show judgment: it shows political panic."
Rep. Jim Clyburn on South Carolina ETV Radio:
"I do believe that McCain has to do something to reshuffle the cards, shake up the establishment, do something unexpected and Governor Palin has all the kinds of things that McCain might see as a way to shake things up. I think [her selection] would be something similar to Dan Quayle. Dan Quayle proved to be sort of an embarrassment as a campaigner. Being thrust on a national stage like that could be very tough. Now Mondale tried to shake things up by going with Geraldine Ferraro.she proved to be a disaster as a running mate. And as a campaigner, she was absolutely awful. And so I just think that it is very risky for McCain to do this, but it may be all he has left."
Meanwhile, the non-partisan group Campaign Money Watch responded that the pick underscores McCain's loss of maverick reformer credentials:
"In choosing Governor Palin, Senator McCain is clearly trying to shore up his past maverick reformer image - an image that is now in tatters due to the type of campaign he's run and the big money lobbyists he depends on every day of the week," Donnelly said.
"This selection raises plenty of questions," Donnelly continued. "She bills herself as a reformer, but has been silent on whether she supports public financing of elections in her own state. As governor of an oil-producing state, she's been a friend to Big Oil. Given John McCain's extensive fundraising from Big Oil, her selection raises concerns of whether the McCain-Palin ticket will promise the same access for oil companies and their lobbyists that we've seen for nearly eight years from the Bush-Cheney administration."
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANG!
There was a TV ad for deodorant that said, "Never let them see you sweat." The John McCain campaign has just showed the world that it is drenched.
Selecting Sarah Palin as its choice for a vice presidential candidate is perhaps the worst such choice in American History. To be fair, maybe there are worse choices, but I don't know how bad William O. Butler was when he ran with Lewis Cass against Zachary Taylor.
But it's far worse than Dan Quayle, who was a sitting senator. Worse even than Geraldine Ferraro, who at least served in Congress for three-terms. And far worse than William Miller, a choice so obscure when selected by Barry Goldwater that he (honestly) later did an American Express commercial asking, "Do you know me?" And that ad was after the election. But even Miller had been a Congressman for 12 years. And been a prosecutor during the Nuremberg War trials against Nazis. Sarah Palin lists her credits as a hockey mom.
There was a point during the Republican primaries when I was trying to figure out who I hoped got the presidential nomination. Someone so weak he'd be easy for the Democrats to beat, or someone more challenging who at least wouldn't be a disaster for America. I decided on the latter because America has to resolve its serious problems and can't afford risking some glitch where another George Bush got elected. And so I felt that John McCain, for all his weaknesses, was the lesser of all evils and was glad he got the nomination. Throw that out the window. McCain-Palin is an unthinkable disaster.
I completely understand the reasoning behind the decision for John McCain to select Sarah Palin. Absolutely. It's the thinking that settled on Sarah Palin that's missing.
No doubt John McCain will get some women to vote for him who wouldn't have otherwise, and even some independents. But he will also probably lose as many Republicans uncomfortable with a woman on the ticket - let alone a woman with so little experience as Sarah Palin. Not to mention that the choice will cause many undecided Democratic women to be aghast and push them back to following their Democratic beliefs. And further, it will lose all the independents who look at the GOP ticket and say "This is who I'm supposed to give my vote for the next four years to lead and protect America??" It may even appeal to right-wing evangelicals for her strong pro-life stance and get some to vote - but that position and others related to it are specifically what loses even more women voters. And men. Ultimately, the nomination will lose far, far more votes than it gains.
But this is not the reason the decision is so terrible.
It's always said that the most important decision a presidential candidate makes is their pick for vice president. It shows their thinking and judgment. John McCain, in his first decision, has just told the world that he believes Sarah Palin is the most qualified person to be a heartbeat from the presidency. Forgetting all the available men for a moment, if John McCain felt it critical to select a woman in an effort to somehow grab the Hillary Clinton supporters, look at his choice of women he had available: Christine Todd Whitman, Kay Bailey Hutchison, Elizabeth Dole, Susan Collins, even - for goodness sake - Condoleezza Rice. Or Carly Fiorina. Each of these have marks against them, and perhaps some might not have wanted to run, but it's near-impossible to look at the list and suggest to the American public that Sarah Palin is the best choice of Republican women to be vice president. And again, this is ignoring the men he who could have been chosen.
It's not that Sarah Palin is inexperienced. It's that this is gross political misconduct.
Sarah Palin has been governor of Alaska for just a bit over 18 months. Alaska has a population of 683,000. (Though that doesn't include moose.) This would only make it the 17th most populous city in the United States. Just ahead of Fort Worth.
Before that, she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska. Population 9,000. I know Republicans like to promote "small town values," but this is taking things to ridiculous extremes, don't you think? I'm from Glencoe, Illinois, population 8,762. It's so small it doesn't even have a mayor, it has an appointed village manager. I'm sure that Paul Harlow is doing wonderfully at his job in the village - but I don't expect that he sees himself as even wanting to be a heartbeat from the U.S. President in 18 months. You know what the top news story is on the Glencoe website? "Fire Hydrant Painting Underway." (To be fair, it's the #2 story. The top news is a clarification about displaying political signage.)
Do you know what the first two "powers and duties" are for the mayor of Wasilla, Alaska? Check their municipal code:
1. Preside at council meetings. The mayor may take part in the discussion of matters before the council, but may not vote, except that the mayor may vote in the case of a tie;
2. Act as ceremonial head of the city;
Swell.
If you live in small town America (and I mean really, really small), look around you and be honest - do you see your mayor (or village manager) as a heartbeat from the presidency in 18 months?
But that's not the reason either that the decision to make Sarah Palin the VP nominee is so terrible.
It's one thing to discuss how unqualified Sarah Palin is. That's a national matter and huge. But on a grassroots political level, her nomination takes away the Republicans' ONLY weapon in the campaign - calling Barack Obama inexperienced. They haven't even been trying to run on the issues, or on the eight-year record of George Bush, which John McCain has supported almost 95% of the time. They've only been running on the faux-issue of Barack Obama's experience of 14 years in federal and state government. Yes, Sarah Palin is merely running for VP, not president, but with a 72 year-old candidate with a history of serious medical issues, this is who they're saying is able to step in as president in a heart-beat. She has so little experience that she makes Sen. Obama look like FDR, Winston Churchill and Julius Caesar combined. So, the Republicans pulled the rug out from under themselves. They have no issues. The economy? Housing? The national debt? Education? The Environment? Iraq? Afghanistan? Nothing. All they have is "Dear Democratic women: please pretend our VP candidate is Hillary Clinton. Just forget that she's pro-life. And against most things Democrats stand for."
But that's not the reason the decision is so terrible.
Because if the hope for John McCain is to get women to vote for him who otherwise supported Hillary Clinton - if anything could get Hillary Clinton campaigning in full force and fury...this is it. She likely would have campaigned hard, but it's in Hillary Clinton's best interest to be the leading voice for women, and the leading woman candidate for president in the future, so having another woman as the potential Vice President (and potential President) is a significant challenge to that. The Republicans just opened Pandora's Box and brought Hillary Clinton roaring to Barack Obama's side on the Democratic train. And Bill Clinton, too.
Yet even that's not the reason the decision is so terrible.
What this does in the most profound and grandiose way possible is give lie to John McCain's pompous posturing that he Always Puts America First. And that undercuts the most prominent campaign issue of his entire career, that everything he does is for reasons of honor. There is nothing honorable about making Sarah Palin your vice presidential nominee. Nothing. Unless you define honor as "blatantly pandering."
But that's not the reason either that this decision is so terrible.
But before we get to that, let's look at the actual announcement to make Gov. Sarah Palin (AK - pop. 683,000) the Republican nominee for president, and put the horrible decision in perspective.
First, John McCain stood at the podium, looking up-and-down reading his speech. It's impossible not to compare that to Barack Obama giving his majestic speech the night before that even conservative analysts were admiring in awe.
Second, the cameras were polite enough to avoid it, but there were empty seats in the gym. It's impossible not to compare that to a stadium of 75,000 people that Barack Obama spoke to the night before.
Third, when people around the nation were waiting to hear about Sarah Palin's qualifications and gravitas to be Vice President of the United States, the first five minutes of her speech were spent talking about her husband being a champion snowmobiler.
Fourth, when she finally got around to her qualifications, pretty much all we discovered was that she fought to cut property taxes. And then, she basically stopped there.
She did, however, mention becoming energy self-sufficient - by talking about how she supported drilling in Alaska!!! Perhaps to Republicans this is being an environmentalist, but to most of America, not so much. Then again, she's also against putting polar bears on the endangered species list (which the government did), so maybe her environmental qualifications are more lax than she thinks.
And then, finally, she spent the rest of her time praising John McCain. Fine, that's very supportive of her...except that the one question on everyone's mind was not -- "can you say John McCain is a swell guy and tell us that he was a POW", the question on everyone's mind was - "Who in God's name are you, and please tell us why you should be a heart-beat from the presidency?"
In the end, the only case she herself made for being on the ticket was praising Hillary Clinton! That's it, period. Now, it might be enough to attract some women -- but it doesn't make a case for the ticket. Why? Hint: some women did vote for Hillary Clinton solely because she was a woman. But most women voted for Hillary Clinton because she was a Democrat, as well as a woman, who stood for important Democratic values they seriously believed in. If Sarah Palin wants to praise Hillary Clinton, go for it. But at least understand what you're praising. Because it will likely come back and bite you.
It was a thin, nothing, empty speech. It was a speech to be head of the Chamber of Commerce. Compare that to the speech by Joe Biden when Barack Obama introduced him. Eloquent, soaring and explaining in blunt detail why John McCain should not be president. Joe Biden must have been watching Sarah Palin's speech, in order to take notes in preparation for his debate with her and thought, "This isn't fair."
And all that's not even the reason the decision is so terrible.
The reason is because the election is not about Sarah Palin. Or about Joe Biden. As much as TV analysts want to be excited by the balloons and hoopla, tomorrow the air will be let out, and there are still over two months to go for the campaign.
The campaign is about Barack Obama and John McCain.
Sarah Palin's nomination doesn't change that. In fact, it reinforces it. Nothing about putting Sarah Palin on the GOP ticket changes a word that Barack Obama said in his vibrant acceptance speech - about himself, about his issues, and about John McCain's repeatedly faulty judgment on the critical issues facing America.
What Sarah Palin's nomination does do is focus attention on John McCain's age. Indeed, the nomination was made on his birthday, when he turned 72, the oldest man ever to run for president. As the crowd sang "Happy Birthday to You," you almost sensed that through John McCain's clenched smile, saying, "Thanks for reminding me," that what he was thinking underneath was "Please, oh, please, don't sing the 'How old are you now?' part." And how good a message was it that he's saying he supposedly forgot it was his birthday?
Vice presidents are usually selected as people who are adept at blasting the other side's presidential candidate, because it's only the presidential candidate that matters. Joe Biden has already done that - twice - at length, spoken as someone who knows John McCain well and likes him. Sarah Palin had her first chance...and whiffed. Didn't even try. And it's hard to imagine what she has in her arsenal that will remotely allow her to do so in the future.
The election is about the presidential candidates. And the selection of Sarah Palin now allows Barack Obama to campaign untouched by the Republican ticket. John McCain's only other option is for himself to personally become negative for two months - which is disaster in presidential politics.
Now add on all the problems expressed above. Sarah Palin's inexplicably laughable lack of substance, most-especially on the foreign policy stage. Her taking away the one issue, experience, Republicans were even attempting. Her pushing away voters who might otherwise be willing to vote for a senator with 26 years in the Senate. Her bringing Hillary Clinton aggressively back into the campaign. Her inability to offer anything to off-set Joe Biden. Her standing as supposedly the most-qualified Republican woman as John McCain's first decision.
And, in the end, it all focuses back on Barack Obama, with his indictment of eight years of the Bush Administration and of John McCain's flawed judgment - and John McCain's defense of all that.
Republicans might be dancing earlier today, because there was a lot of fun music playing. But the music has stopped. The actual campaign has now started. For Republicans, it might have ended.
Wow!!! This really hits the nail square on the head!
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/trophy.jpg) (http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/trophy.jpg) (http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/trophy.jpg) (http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/trophy.jpg)
-
Mccain and Palin both decided it was a good thing to thrust an unwed pregnant teenager into the national media spotlight for the sake of an election?
This is probably the scariest aspect of this whole ordeal.
That's the part that I find so absolutely disgusting! >:(
This girl is going to need a lot of support, ...and the kind that's coming from "Republicans" isn't what she needs.
-
Investigators? Who the heck is investigating whether Palin's daughter is pregnant? Other than liberals trying to trash her?
Sarah disclosed it to John during their talks prior to her selection.
-
Blah, blah, blah... quit spending so much time on here and go check on your daughter
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/rotflmao.gif)
-
Sarah disclosed it to John during their talks prior to her selection.
No one on his staff has the same answer as to when he was told, and to what detail.
I'm betting he was as surprised as anyone ;)
-
Agree, great points, especially about the "lot of work" and I only have one ;D
Which I why I feel with 5 kids, one special needs, one pregnant - there is no way she has the time to do both effectively. One will suffer, and neither choice is optimal :-\
Equal rights for women is great and needed, but if we as women make the choice to have even 1 kid, let alone 5...we really should put them first. If one wants to be career mad great - do it before or after kids, or do a medium demanding career. Many parents will question this, and it's not as she is female. If Obama had 3 more kids, one pregnant and one special needs - I would think he needs to get his ass home and be a dad.
And Shoot - I agree, no way should parents be blamed. Like you, I had great parents and I've made errors.
Keep in mind that her oldest "kid" is a GROWN MAN who's in the Army, about to head to Iraq in a week or two.
And the other one is about to be married (that would be the pregnant one).
That leaves one early/mid teenager, a little kid, and a baby.
-
One thing I am learning in the past few days is that there are a lot of angry heartless left wingers...and they are taking center stage right now. Why is the far left so prone to nasty personal attacks like this? I know the people on the far right are the same (thats why I like moderates) but this degree of personal gutter mudslinging about Palin and her family is disgusting. Some of you guys are lapping up every unsubstantiated story you can find.
-
Keep in mind that her oldest "kid" is a GROWN MAN who's in the Army, about to head to Iraq in a week or two.
And the other one is about to be married (that would be the pregnant one).
That leaves one early/mid teenager, a little kid, and a baby.
Agree on the oldest kid, but seriously you're always a mom. I bug my mom to death and I am 33 ;D
Plus the othr 2 young kids - the teen girl, sure on paper she is getting married - in reality she is a high school student and a legal minor. Plus, pregnany, press makes her require some more love and care [not to be fruity]. And the baby as we know has special needs.
That is a handful, no denying that.
-
One thing I am learning in the past few days is that there are a lot of angry heartless left wingers...and they are taking center stage right now. Why is the far left so prone to nasty personal attacks like this? I know the people on the far right are the same (thats why I like moderates) but this degree of personal gutter mudslinging about Palin and her family is disgusting. Some of you guys are lapping up every unsubstantiated story you can find.
The National Enquirer won and Murrow/Cronkite lost.
News is produced for salacious consumers.
Political policy means nothing to the national media. When's the last time you saw on national newsprograms a policy discussion on taxes, abortion, entitlements or the like? Never.
All political news is process and not policy. Why did McCain say X the way he said it? How is he positioning himself on Y etc. There are simply no substantive policy discussions at all in our national media.
I love discussing policy. I like making fun of process.
-
One thing I am curious about - which seems dodgy to me...is why not say it right away? Would have seemed less "unseeming". If she is 5 months, she'll be ready to blow by election time so no way could it be a secret.
When she was announced, why not say 5 kids, a grandchild on the way from her daughter Bristol who is engaged, slap an enagement ring on the kid and it all would have looked better for perception. 17 may be young, but that would have looked better...recalling image matters.
Why wait - and release the info now? Thoughts anyone?
Damage control. It appears like they're trying to close the barn door after the horses got out.
...
on 2nd thought, ...this could have been a very calculated decision on Mccain's part in order to change the national debate just before election day. he cannot compete on issues of the economy, climate change, foreign relations, the war in Iraq etc, ...so choosing a running mate with a pregnant teen, changes the topic of discussion to abortion. An area that fires up the evangelical right. He throws a child into the fray, knowing Americans would never vote against a child. They're looking to psychologically frame this as a vote against Mccain, equates to a vote against women, or against loving support for an unwed pregnant teen.
-
Damage control. It appears like they're trying to close the barn door after the horses got out.
...
on 2nd thought, ...this could have been a very calculated decision on Mccain's part in order to change the national debate just before election day. he cannot compete on issues of the economy, climate change, foreign relations, the war in Iraq etc, ...so choosing a running mate with a pregnant teen, changes the topic of discussion to abortion. An area that fires up the evangelical right. He throws a child into the fray, knowing Americans would never vote against a child. They're looking to psychologically frame this as a vote against Mccain, equates to a vote against women, or against loving support for an unwed pregnant teen.
No, what McCain is trying to do with Palin is re-frame his candidacy as one of change, reform and "cleaning up Washington." Palin's Alaska rep is as a reformer and she is also someone outside of the Washington establishment. McCain used to be considered a reformer when he was somewhat of a maverick.
-
One thing I am learning in the past few days is that there are a lot of angry heartless left wingers...and they are taking center stage right now. Why is the far left so prone to nasty personal attacks like this? I know the people on the far right are the same (thats why I like moderates) but this degree of personal gutter mudslinging about Palin and her family is disgusting. Some of you guys are lapping up every unsubstantiated story you can find.
Truth.
-
No, what McCain is trying to do with Palin is re-frame his candidacy as one of change, reform and "cleaning up Washington." Palin's Alaska rep is as a reformer and she is also someone outside of the Washington establishment. McCain used to be considered a reformer when he was somewhat of a maverick.
{shhhh} I was trying to give the man some credit as a strategic thinker, ...possibly even master chess player.
Your comments just confirm what a sad, pathetic, and desperate excuse of a candidate he has become. {sigh}
-
{shhhh} I was trying to give the man some credit as a strategic thinker, ...possibly even master chess player.
Your comments just confirm what a sad, pathetic, and desperate excuse of a candidate he has become. {sigh}
haha ;D
Ok, sorry.