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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: ASJChaotic on September 23, 2008, 04:53:14 PM
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deadlifts.....for erector spinae and lower back or for THICKNESS of all of back in general?
including the
rhomboids, trapezius and latissimus dorsi ?
deadlift expertswhat do you think?
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deadlifts.....for erector spinae and lower back or for THICKNESS of all of back in general?
including the
rhomboids, trapezius and latissimus dorsi ?
deadlift expertswhat do you think?
Trap bar instead of a conventional Olympic bar.
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deadlifts are great for back development and development for other parts of your body too. all around great exercise. there is nothing better and a more functional movement for your body than picking dead weight off the floor(with good form of course). Awesome for thickness, and for growth!
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All of the above that AXA-tic questioned. And more, including thegrip, hips/butt, legs/hams and pretty much down to the feet. It is a superior full body compound exercise. One does not have to start DL's off the floor. Take them from around the knee (a little above a little below), depending on the body mechanics of the lifter, for favorable benefits. If your into PL'ing than DL's have to be from the floor position. But partial rep's ( knee area) also help. Even 3 to 4 inch partial lifts assist greatly with power and size. Adding shrugs at the finish standing position gives even more development.
With the DL, you are holding the bar stable and in position while the hips/butt legs, etc do the actual lifting. Looking at it closely, notice that there is a push off the floor by the lower body, not a pull. If doing a SLDL (a outstanding exercise) than more of a pull is involved. All in all, I prefer the SLDL...just a personal view.
The regular DL is not for everyone. But there are many versions of DL'ing suited for different body types. Main hazard in the regular DL is leaning too far forward to avoid hitting the knees during a exercise lift. Leaning too far forward places too much tension and strain on the lower back. As The Coach suggest, a trap/shrug bar works well because, for the most part, the knees are taken out of the line of the lift. Heavier DB's could also be used for a period.
There is also special equipment like the devices used when training for the Farmers Walk, with handles on them. Extra plates can be added to the basic weight of this equipment. Men, in the past, have constructed home made equipment from 4X6's ( or what ever) with cross member braces. Drill some holes and add any form of handles you wish (large "U" bolts may work here). May not look like it but you now have a very functional piece of DL'ing equipment. Just step inside the frame, grap the handles and lift. Good Luck.
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All of the above that AXA-tic questioned. And more, including thegrip, hips/butt, legs/hams and pretty much down to the feet. It is a superior full body compound exercise. One does not have to start DL's off the floor. Take them from around the knee (a little above a little below), depending on the body mechanics of the lifter, for favorable benefits. If your into PL'ing than DL's have to be from the floor position. But partial rep's ( knee area) also help. Even 3 to 4 inch partial lifts assist greatly with power and size. Adding shrugs at the finish standing position gives even more development.
With the DL, you are holding the bar stable and in position while the hips/butt legs, etc do the actual lifting. Looking at it closely, notice that there is a push off the floor by the lower body, not a pull. If doing a SLDL (a outstanding exercise) than more of a pull is involved. All in all, I prefer the SLDL...just a personal view.
The regular DL is not for everyone. But there are many versions of DL'ing suited for different body types. Main hazard in the regular DL is leaning too far forward to avoid hitting the knees during a exercise lift. Leaning too far forward places too much tension and strain on the lower back. As The Coach suggest, a trap/shrug bar works well because, for the most part, the knees are taken out of the line of the lift. Heavier DB's could also be used for a period.
There is also special equipment like the devices used when training for the Farmers Walk, with handles on them. Extra plates can be added to the basic weight of this equipment. Men, in the past, have constructed home made equipment from 4X6's ( or what ever) with cross member braces. Drill some holes and add any form of handles you wish (large "U" bolts may work here). May not look like it but you now have a very functional piece of DL'ing equipment. Just step inside the frame, grap the handles and lift. Good Luck.
and people said all this site was useful for was getting insulted ;D
people actually give good advice on the training board 8)
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In order to get the full benefit of the movement, as well as work the posterior head of the deltoid, be sure to lift ACTUAL dead bodies.
Thank you, that is all.
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personally i like to pull the weight off the rack . i put the pin about two feet from the floor. works great for traps and you can do heavier weights.
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personally i like to pull the weight off the rack . i put the pin about two feet from the floor. works great for traps and you can do heavier weights.
Above or below your knees?
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personally i like to pull the weight off the rack . i put the pin about two feet from the floor. works great for traps and you can do heavier weights.
Rack pulls
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yea personally i like rack pulls better than deads.
but i think its cos i can use more weight haha :)
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yea personally i like rack pulls better than deads.
but i think its cos i can use more weight haha :)
Like I said, I don't do conventional deads. Instead I will use a trap bar. Develops more strength and power in the posterior chain and upper back.
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With regards to Chaos question; Have to find your own correct pin position. But probably if knees are no problem, than a little below the knee cap. If a problem, than have the bar (on the pins) touching the top of the knee caps at the start of the exercise. That works the best for me. But than again, you have to be the judge as to where the pins are. Going to use a lot more weight from that position.
Thing about a Power Rack is that the weak spots of any lift can be focused upon for a better complete lift. Some guy's will start from the floor and set the stop pins about upper shin bone high. Builds starting power if weak off the platform. Can apply to a weak mid to top position DL also. Getting the weak spots stronger works very well indeed with the bench also. Can get the body adjusted to handling some very hefty poundage with these forms of partials. That way all three phases of a exercise can be worked to their full potential. Good Luck.
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With regards to Chaos question; Have to find your own correct pin position. But probably if knees are no problem, than a little below the knee cap. If a problem, than have the bar (on the pins) touching the top of the knee caps at the start of the exercise. That works the best for me. But than again, you have to be the judge as to where the pins are. Going to use a lot more weight from that position.
Thing about a Power Rack is that the weak spots of any lift can be focused upon for a better complete lift. Some guy's will start from the floor and set the stop pins about upper shin bone high. Builds starting power if weak off the platform. Can apply to a weak mid to top position DL also. Getting the weak spots stronger works very well indeed with the bench also. Can get the body adjusted to handling some very hefty poundage with these forms of partials. That way all three phases of a exercise can be worked to their full potential. Good Luck.
I know what works for me, I was asking BAZZ where he pulled from. ;D
I like just below the knees, rarely do them though, I prefer deads from the ground.
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Actually the response about rack DL's was not for Chaos. More of a general observation, on the question, for some of the other guy's reading this. Most of my post are just general comments for anyone who might be interested. No big deal. Good Luck.
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Trap bar instead of a conventional Olympic bar.
Why on earth would you recommend that?
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Every one to there own, but I found them more of a power building movement and did lots of tripples, doubles or singles just for that.
That with power cleans cleans was great for Kuzushi (Breaking of your oponents balance)
But I never found deads a great movement for mass no matter the rep range.
I got more out of rows at different angles for back delevelopement.
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In order to get the full benefit of the movement, as well as work the posterior head of the deltoid, be sure to lift ACTUAL dead bodies.
Thank you, that is all.
weird..
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I think deads are great for neck to ass back thickness and overall strength, its the most basic lift and real world applicable.
I just do them off the floor. I dont like all the extra stuff like straps belts off the rack or special bars.
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Why on earth would you recommend that?
You've never used a trap bar have you?
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I have chronic lower back pain, and it flares up when i do deads from the ground. Though id like to keep deadlifts in my training, do you think rack pulls would help avoid some of the lower back pain from pulling off the ground?
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You've never used a trap bar have you?
I have. They are fantastic for deads. Completely different feel.
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I have chronic lower back pain, and it flares up when i do deads from the ground. Though id like to keep deadlifts in my training, do you think rack pulls would help avoid some of the lower back pain from pulling off the ground?
Simply put, the more ROM your lower back goes through, the more painful it will be. Rack deads put you through less ROM, so there is your answer. Whether it's still painful is for you to decide by trying it out.
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You've never used a trap bar have you?
Please explain why lifing with a trap bar is better.
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Simply put, the more ROM your lower back goes through, the more painful it will be. Rack deads put you through less ROM, so there is your answer. Whether it's still painful is for you to decide by trying it out.
For sure bro, I'm gonna give them a try to see if they are effective for me while reducing the irritation.
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Trap bar instead of a conventional Olympic bar.
my brother has that bar @ his home gym. Cost $160. He really likes it
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Please explain why lifing with a trap bar is better.
Probably because the weight is more neutrally aligned with your body being at the sides rather than the front which does offer more potential to lean forward and incur injury.
A trap bar permits a more neutral and natural stance.
I was lucky enough to have a gym for 8 mths where one was and used it to achieve great results - i actually performed high reps on leg day with it and my development EXPLODED.
That being said standard deads are great and staple in my routine but a trap bar is safer and more natural.
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Probably because the weight is more neutrally aligned with your body being at the sides rather than the front which does offer more potential to lean forward and incur injury.
A trap bar permits a more neutral and natural stance.
I was lucky enough to have a gym for 8 mths where one was and used it to achieve great results - i actually performed high reps on leg day with it and my development EXPLODED.
That being said standard deads are great and staple in my routine but a trap bar is safer and more natural.
Yeah but that is exactly why deadlifts with the normal bar are better for back development than trap bar deadlifts.
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Yeah but that is exactly why deadlifts with the normal bar are better for back development than trap bar deadlifts.
That's what I was asking but apparently the "guru's" don't have an answer. :D
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off the floor. Can't be beat 4 back thickness.
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deadlifts are great for posture. if i slack off and dont do dead's for a couple weeks i end up walking around in a slouch. gotta keep the inner/lower back muscles strong enough to stand up correctly with good posture. much more atrtractive look than slouching. more confident looking.
as for actual back development, not strength, personally i am not sure i get to much out of deadlfts that i cant get somewhere else.
BUT
deadlifts are one of the few movements for back that dont involve the biceps, so i do find them useful as sort of a pre exhaust for moVements like pullups/pulldowns which normally might put alot of strain on the biceps. getting blood in the lats without getting blood in the biceps helps me to better isolate the lats.
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Yeah but that is exactly why deadlifts with the normal bar are better for back development than trap bar deadlifts.
The only difference is spine angle and points of leverage.
Neither will provided better gains, it's the angle of the spine that can lead to injury(rounding), thus the trap bar puts you in a better leverage position and less chance for injury.
Kinesiology 101
8)
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Also for cosmetic purposes only use a double overhand grip with deadlifts. It'll hit ur back much better.
You wont be able to use halfway as much weight, but you'll feel it in the back more :)
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Also for cosmetic purposes only use a double overhand grip with deadlifts. It'll hit ur back much better.
You wont be able to use halfway as much weight, but you'll feel it in the back more :)
I concur.
It will also help prevent bicep tears when pulling heavy.
Obviously with a double overhand grip you will use less weight at first if you are used to a over/under grip, but for bodybuilding it shouldn't matter too much.
8)
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The only difference is spine angle and points of leverage.
Neither will provided better gains, it's the angle of the spine that can lead to injury(rounding), thus the trap bar puts you in a better leverage position and less chance for injury.
Kinesiology 101
8)
What do you mean by "only". Different spine angle an points of leverage make a big difference. If it would not make a difference I could do upright rows and grow big lats. Because it pretty much the same movement as bentover rows, only the spine angle and the points of leverage are different.
And the angle of the spine can lead to injury. So you better flex those muscles when deadlifting conventional--->greater muscle stimulus than with trap bar.
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deadlifts.....for erector spinae and lower back or for THICKNESS of all of back in general?
including the
rhomboids, trapezius and latissimus dorsi ?
deadlift expertswhat do you think?
I think deadlifts are awesome for back development.
But I recently came across a study that basically claimed that it's only the eccentric part of the excersise that promotes hypertrophy.
And most of us drops the weight fairly quick on the deadlift.
So I actually has three tips for you.
1. Drop the belt (This will prevent you from going overboard with weight)
2. Stick with slightly higher reps, 6-10 reps
3. Control the downward phase, although not overly so (I'm not talking superslow guild here).
This should give you a little more time doing the eccentric phase of the deadlift, which the study I looked at suggested was the only phase that created hypertrophy.
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I think deadlifts are awesome for back development.
But I recently came across a study that basically claimed that it's only the eccentric part of the excersise that promotes hypertrophy.
And most of us drops the weight fairly quick on the deadlift.
So I actually has three tips for you.
1. Drop the belt (This will prevent you from going overboard with weight)
2. Stick with slightly higher reps, 6-10 reps
3. Control the downward phase, although not overly so (I'm not talking superslow guild here).
This should give you a little more time doing the eccentric phase of the deadlift, which the study I looked at suggested was the only phase that created hypertrophy.
I never do shrugs or anything and when I used to do deadlifts I really felt it in my traps
and next day they would be sore
so I'll use it for traps and spine once I start training again in a couple of weeks
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I think deadlifts are awesome for back development.
But I recently came across a study that basically claimed that it's only the eccentric part of the excersise that promotes hypertrophy.
And most of us drops the weight fairly quick on the deadlift.
So I actually has three tips for you.
1. Drop the belt (This will prevent you from going overboard with weight)
2. Stick with slightly higher reps, 6-10 reps
3. Control the downward phase, although not overly so (I'm not talking superslow guild here).
This should give you a little more time doing the eccentric phase of the deadlift, which the study I looked at suggested was the only phase that created hypertrophy.
Can you post that study, please?
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I think deadlifts are awesome for back development.
But I recently came across a study that basically claimed that it's only the eccentric part of the excersise that promotes hypertrophy.
And most of us drops the weight fairly quick on the deadlift.
So I actually has three tips for you.
1. Drop the belt (This will prevent you from going overboard with weight)
2. Stick with slightly higher reps, 6-10 reps
3. Control the downward phase, although not overly so (I'm not talking superslow guild here).
This should give you a little more time doing the eccentric phase of the deadlift, which the study I looked at suggested was the only phase that created hypertrophy.
Sounds like an interesting study.
I do most of those points you stated, so thats good.
I love deads, but as you said, 6-10 is a good rep range. I was going a bit lower than that and i've since changed to slightly higher reps and i'm glad i did.
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I think deadlifts are awesome for back development.
But I recently came across a study that basically claimed that it's only the eccentric part of the excersise that promotes hypertrophy.
And most of us drops the weight fairly quick on the deadlift.
So I actually has three tips for you.
1. Drop the belt (This will prevent you from going overboard with weight)
2. Stick with slightly higher reps, 6-10 reps
3. Control the downward phase, although not overly so (I'm not talking superslow guild here).
This should give you a little more time doing the eccentric phase of the deadlift, which the study I looked at suggested was the only phase that created hypertrophy.
of course eccentric is gonna play a part in hypertophy this is old news, recruits different motor units or soemthing like that, also stronger in the eccentric means once you reahc concentric failure you can do assisted eccentric... the lats are no different than any other muscle they will respond to both concentric and ecentric just like everymuscle
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I didn't read the other posts so this might of already been said, but nothing builds the upper back stronger and thicker than deadlifts. If you look at the upper back development of power lifting deadlifters you'll see what i mean. When you bring the bar up from the floor, the muscles that directly keep the bar from drifting forward or scraping your shins ( although deads should be shin scrapers) is the upper back musculature. Also, from the floor your scapula ( shoulder blades ) should be spread a little and at the top of the deadlift your scapula should be back and tucked; this movement also works the upper back. Snatch grip deads work the upper back even better. And a deadlift variation which works mostly just the upper back would be snatch grip rack pulls.
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Can you post that study, please?
http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/291/6/E1197?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&author1=+Eliasson&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT
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Dead lifts from the rack are unbeatable. You can use a lot more weight then typical dead-lifts and if you squeeze at the top you back will really grow!
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Dead lifts from the rack are unbeatable. You can use a lot more weight then typical dead-lifts and if you squeeze at the top you back will really grow!
Epic posting the same comment on 4 different threads
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First it was not the same post on each thread and second deads from the rack fucking work!