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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: Deicide on October 17, 2008, 07:11:55 AM
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I currently find myself in one of the most difficult situations I have known to date. I happen to have a few Christian aquaintances and after I have told them of my plight, they claim they will and/or have prayed for me. They tell me their desert deity will cause some miracle to happen. In real life I have a high degree of tolerance for religious delusion, which usually manifests itself in the form of avoidance of interaction with such people but recently I have been hearing this gibberish ridden prayer silliness a bit too often. I suppose under the extremely, extremely unlikely circumstances that my situation improves, they will claim credit as their 'prayers' have been answered. Alternatively if the much more probable outcome of my current situation manifests itself, these delusional people will claim that their deity has simply said no for inexplicable reasons, wholly unknown to mortals. Either way it is a win/win situation for them. I had someone write me a long and tiresome e-mail that I initially could not even read through because it is so delusional:
I recall that one day you told me you only accepted the existence of God if somebody showed the proof. I have found something that I classify not as the proof - for i believe that our very existence and the existence of this beautiful world and perfect nature is the proof of God's existence - but as one pretty strong evidence of that in which you do not believe. Thus, this is a 50 min video about the discovery of Noah's Arch. I do know it is a heck of a long video but I beg you to watch it. Why am I pushing? Dude, first Jesus who is God loves you. Second, as there is no scientific evidence of the existence of God there is no scientific evidence claiming the nonexistence of God, either. Third, if there is such God this presumably means He is an entity of unlimited power, wisdom and existence. Therefore, He would not have to prove his existence in humans terms. I mean, when we say : If an earthquake strikes that certain region of the world then I shall say that God exists. Or, God truly exists if he does this or that.
It is not hard to doubt the existence of what we do not see. However, our commitment to things is not constituted on what we may have seen or on what we may not have seen. We can see passion and not feel passion. We can see disgrace and not commit ourselves with disgrace. We can see terror and not be repel it. Last, we can see love and not commit ourselves to love. This is one of the reason God does not give interviews to CNN and does not give lectures at universities. Other reason is that we as mortal could not bear his presence. It can even be said that everything has been proven that the universe was not created by God. But, wait. It was not said what or who created or began it. All the scientific evidences never said that indeed. What was discovered was how everything happened, again, not what or who made it happen. Putting God on the defensive by requiring a scientific proof of his existence - even tough science itself cannot prove the contrary, in fact, never could because science's main achievement so far concerning the origin of the universe and life has been how it happened not who or what made it happen - is considerably more likely to happen when we face the thirsty of our knowledge and senses for more information. Specially, when it comes to the existence of who we were always told to exist. The human anxiety is based on the fact that all our improvement - concerning the methods and the science - has not being able to drive us to the what would be the main discovery of all times : the (non) existence of God. This anxiety leads to premature statements when we just do find the answer we want or when we face the failures of our society governed by us.
But would not it be premature to assert that God lives forever since there is proof whatsoever of his existence?
God is not far away from us reigning lonely absolute and we might think. On the contrary because He created us after his likeness He does have feelings too. And among these feelings is love by us, the masterpiece of his creation. In the beginning God and us lived in peace, as father and son, we could see God and be in his presence. We could live by the side of our creator throughout all eternity. Instead we chose not to obey God anymore and fallow our very will and judgement, even though God had given us the authority over all creation. Nowadays, it can be seem the consequences of disobeying God and being away from him, governing ourselves. After that, God could have wiped mankind off the map, or could not even have created man himself. The reason why God created man although he knew what man would do is that He created mankind with love, and he would not create with love such a complex and almost perfect creature (after his likeness) without the power of making decisions for itself. In another words, God did not want to create robots.
A promise was made to humankind that a salvation was going to be sent by God. The salvation was going to deliver man from the captivity of sin and death. God has since the beginning of times given the method to know him. God does not need to be discovered since he is not covered to us. Jesus Christ has already carried on the cross the shame of sin and all offense that separated us from God. Our creator is with open arms waiting for us just like a father and a mother wait for his children. This is the method:
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."
"In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink."
"But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life."
"And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst"
That is the method. To open our hearts and call for him and he will come to us. I hope you have read the whole thing, I spent almost 3 hours writing it checking on the dictionary you showed me on the net (thanks by the way, it was a very useful tool) but specially because God told me to write this. He loves you man, he loves you so much. And to worry, because if a miracle is needed in order for you to stay it will happen because there is nothing impossible to the Lord Jesus. I am going to pray for this and Jesus who is God and who cares about this matter because He loves you, He will make it happen. Do not worry, please before listen to this song , it is called He'll take care of the rest..... believe it.
::) After I had forced myself to read through this screed I became severely annoyed, thinking about the time I lost bothering myself with it and the unfortunate time the Brazilian had wasted in its composition.
When things like this are foisted upon me I lose my tolerance. Why do these delusional people actually believe they are helping? For the life of me I don't get it.
Prayer: how to do nothing and still think you are helping.
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the LORD works in mysterious ways
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I was praying every day that Deicide would start posting again. :)
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People want to help in their own ways man. Be happy that people care about you.
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Deicide,
I wish you the best! I hope that you come out of your difficult situations soon!
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People want to help in their own ways man. Be happy that people care about you.
Because selfsame people would never help you in a real way; not that I actually would expect that of them.
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Praying for someone is a "feel good" act. It's like wearing a pink ribbon to "support" Breast Cancer but not donating any time or money to the cause. Symbolism over substance.
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Praying for someone is a "feel good" act. It's like wearing a pink ribbon to "support" Breast Cancer but not donating any time or money to the cause. Symbolism over substance.
Word to big bird, right on target.
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Because selfsame people would never help you in a real way; not that I actually would expect that of them.
Deicide,
I don't mean this in a sarcastic or in a bad way at all, but why would you need help from those you call "mentally ill", "fundy nut cases"? Why would you need help from anybody? By your posts on the different boards, you come off as one who wants to be, and is a self sufficient person, one who doesn't need help from anyone, especially a from a Christian.
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Deicide,
I don't mean this in a sarcastic or in a bad way at all, but why would you need help from those you call "mentally ill", "fundy nut cases"? Why would you need help from anybody? By your posts on the different boards, you come off as one who wants to be, and is a self sufficient person, one who doesn't need help from anyone, especially a from a Christian.
I don't think he "asked " for their help loco. He just shared his dilema, and all of the sudden all these prayers are going out to him.
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I don't think he "asked " for their help loco. He just shared his dilema, and all of the sudden all these prayers are going out to him.
Why don't we let Deicide answer the question? He said "same people would never help you in a real way"
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Why don't we let Deicide answer the question? He said "same people would never help you in a real way"
Read what Old School Flip wrote Jebus freak. I mentioned the problems to some people and the 'praying' started. I didn't ask them for help in any way, shape or fashion.
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Read what Old School Flip wrote Jebus freak. I mentioned the problems to some people and the 'praying' started. I didn't ask them for help in any way, shape or fashion.
I never said, nor did I think that you had asked them for help. You are the one who said that they would never help you in a real way.
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I never said, nor did I think that you had asked them for help. You are the one who said that they would never help you in a real way.
They wouldn't; neither would I in their shoes; what is your point fundy freak?
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They wouldn't; neither would I in their shoes; what is your point fundy freak?
Why do you care that they wouldn't help you then, if you would never ask for or need their help? What's your complaint?
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Why do you care that they wouldn't help you then, if you would never ask for or need their help? What's your complaint?
::) ::) ::)
That they go up to me and tell me they are 'praying' for me and that their desert deity will grant a miracle. ::) ::) ::)
They shouldn't do anything. They should just shut up.
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::) ::) ::)
That they go up to me and tell me they are 'praying' for me and that their desert deity will grant a miracle. ::) ::) ::)
They shouldn't do anything. They should just shut up.
You go to them and tell them your problems, not asking for help, and they should just listen and shut up. Okay, I understand.
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You go to them and tell them your problems, not asking for help, and they should just listen and shut up. Okay, I understand.
I didn't go to them. I was sitting in the fucking kitchen and they kept on pestering me and I told them what was up. I told why I didn't feel like talking or doing other things. That is all. Then I get a shower of useless prayers.
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I didn't go to them. I was sitting in the fucking kitchen and they kept on pestering me and I told them what was up. I told why I didn't feel like talking or doing other things. That is all. Then I get a shower of useless prayers.
I understand. I get the same from people sometimes. I don't get the shower of prayers, but people, instead of just listening, they want to shower me with tips and suggestions on how to fix my problem. They mean well, but sometimes people should just listen and not talk.
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I understand. I get the same from people sometimes. I don't get the shower of prayers, but people, instead of just listening, they want to shower me with tips and suggestions on how to fix my problem. They mean well, but sometimes people should just listen and not talk.
Well, you have Jebus, so...
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I understand. I get the same from people sometimes. I don't get the shower of prayers, but people, instead of just listening, they want to shower me with tips and suggestions on how to fix my problem. They mean well, but sometimes people should just listen and not talk.
Very good post.
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quit crying Deicide
listen to this
How To Recover From A Bad Choice
d/l: http://audio.simpletoremember.com/rietti/how-to-recover-from-bad-choices.mp3 (http://audio.simpletoremember.com/rietti/how-to-recover-from-bad-choices.mp3)
may change your perspective on things and you'll actually go out and do something productive instead of complaining like a bitch.
I'm being nice btw. Everyone has hard times, its what you do with them that matters. It doesn't matter what people are in your life, what money you have or don't have, or if God is or isn't involved in your life. Its all on you to do something. Just fuckin do something already.
Like I said listen to that link even if you don't like it, one or two hours out of your miserable life won't hurt you ;D LOL
relax, things have a way of working themselves out.
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quit crying Deicide
listen to this
How To Recover From A Bad Choice
d/l: http://audio.simpletoremember.com/rietti/how-to-recover-from-bad-choices.mp3 (http://audio.simpletoremember.com/rietti/how-to-recover-from-bad-choices.mp3)
The Greatness of Being Tested
d/l: http://audio.simpletoremember.com/rietti/greatness-of-being-tested.mp3 (http://audio.simpletoremember.com/rietti/greatness-of-being-tested.mp3)
may change your perspective on things and you'll actually go out and do something productive instead of complaining like a bitch.
I'm being nice btw. Everyone has hard times, its what you do with them that matters. It doesn't matter what people are in your life, what money you have or don't have, or if God is or isn't involved in your life. Its all on you to do something. Just fuckin do something already.
Like I said listen to that link even if you don't like it, one or two hours out of your miserable life won't hurt you ;D LOL
relax, things have a way of working themselves out.
I strongly disagree with this statement.
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I strongly disagree with this statement.
Why?
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Why?
If you were entirely on your own, with no friends, no family, not a single person, I think it would matter quite a lot.
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If you were entirely on your own, with no friends, no family, not a single person, I think it would matter quite a lot.
I gave you those links if you listened to them or not, thats fine. the Wisdom within it is good. Don't expect you to believe in God.
anyway. the stuff that is going on in your life is there because it is. You can't complain about it, you can but where will it get you?
Only thing you can do is change your direction. Move forward. Nobody else matters.
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you need to treat your depression my friend, its coming through in your posts.
its mostly situational but man get the fuck out of that shithole.
ill be praying for you :D
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you need to treat your depression my friend, its coming through in your posts.
its mostly situational but man get the fuck out of that shithole.
ill be praying for you :D
'Treat the depression'; in other words pop loads of pills into me until I find out which one 'works', been there, done that...this is one point I disagree with you on. For the record, I have been 'depressed' my whole life. If someone wants to lobotomise me, maybe that would change things. The question of 'depression' is one I have long ago laid to rest. It's always situational btw. I happen not to be in a 'shithole' at the moment anyway.
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If you were entirely on your own, with no friends, no family, not a single person, I think it would matter quite a lot.
Has it ever occurred to you that the reason you don’t have any friends is that you come off like a rude, self-centered JERK??
It appears that someone was actually concerned about your well-being, and you just brushed them off. Loco has tried to be nice to you here, and you basically blast him with insults.
You've got some major-league bitterness in your life. And you need to deal with it, or you're going to be miserable, no matter where you are (whether you have family around or not).
He who wants friends must show himself to be friendly. Snapping at folks who seem to be concerned about you (even, if such concern is superficial, initially) is hardly a way to go that route.
And, what makes you think that these Christians you loathe so much wouldn't try to help you?
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Has it ever occurred to you that the reason you don’t have any friends is that you come off like a rude, self-centered JERK??
Stupid assumption. I have friends but since I move around they are usually far away. You are an idiot to think that my internet handle is an identical copy of me in realy life. Very silly reasoning, but what else can you expect from a fundy?
It appears that someone was actually concerned about your well-being, and you just brushed them off. Loco has tried to be nice to you here, and you basically blast him with insults.
I brushed him off because he was proselytising to me and ranting on about how Jebus loves me. These are things that are not only not helpful. but entirely incomprehensible to an atheist.
You've got some major-league bitterness in your life. And you need to deal with it, or you're going to be miserable, no matter where you are (whether you have family around or not).
Bitterness is good; ever read Schopenhauer?
He who wants friends must show himself to be friendly. Snapping at folks who seem to be concerned about you (even, if such concern is superficial, initially) is hardly a way to go that route.
I never snapped at anyone. I just politely told them I don't believe in their deity.
And, what makes you think that these Christians you loathe so much wouldn't try to help you?
Because the nature of my situation wouldn't allow for such help.
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Stupid assumption. I have friends but since I move around they are usually far away. You are an idiot to think that my internet handle is an identical copy of me in realy life. Very silly reasoning, but what else can you expect from a fundy?
I've moved around quite a bit in my life, too, leaving behind long-time friends. Making new friends becomes more of a difficulty, when you come off as a big jerk. Plus, I never said or claimed or even thought that your internet name is an IDENTICAL copy of your actual life.
I brushed him off because he was proselytising to me and ranting on about how Jebus loves me. These are things that are not only not helpful. but entirely incomprehensible to an atheist.
One, this guy may not have known you were an atheist, until/unless you told him. Two, this may come as a shock to you, but there are Christians who used to be atheists. Often enough, they became such, because someone befriended them and shared the Gospel with them.
Bitterness is good; ever read Schopenhauer?
I've met and seen FAR too many people who've lived with bitterness, and it's hardly a good thing, regardless of what Schopenhauer says.
I never snapped at anyone. I just politely told them I don't believe in their deity.
You snapped at Loco, and he was simply being nice and trying to listen to what you were saying.
Because the nature of my situation wouldn't allow for such help.
But, your earlier complaint was that they WOULDN'T HELP, not that they couldn't help. If they can't help, due to the nature of your situation, your taking potshots at them for praying for you makes no sense.
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i'm not giving up on you bro
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I currently find myself in one of the most difficult situations I have known to date. I happen to have a few Christian aquaintances and after I have told them of my plight, they claim they will and/or have prayed for me. They tell me their desert deity will cause some miracle to happen. In real life I have a high degree of tolerance for religious delusion, which usually manifests itself in the form of avoidance of interaction with such people but recently I have been hearing this gibberish ridden prayer silliness a bit too often. I suppose under the extremely, extremely unlikely circumstances that my situation improves, they will claim credit as their 'prayers' have been answered. Alternatively if the much more probable outcome of my current situation manifests itself, these delusional people will claim that their deity has simply said no for inexplicable reasons, wholly unknown to mortals. Either way it is a win/win situation for them. I had someone write me a long and tiresome e-mail that I initially could not even read through because it is so delusional:
::) After I had forced myself to read through this screed I became severely annoyed, thinking about the time I lost bothering myself with it and the unfortunate time the Brazilian had wasted in its composition.
When things like this are foisted upon me I lose my tolerance. Why do these delusional people actually believe they are helping? For the life of me I don't get it.
Prayer: how to do nothing and still think you are helping.
But D, since you believe prayer is actually doing nothing why do you care if they pray for you or not? Why would you "wish they would stop?"
Maybe you're actually not bothered if they pray, but that they tell you that they pray and in doing so share their faith w/you which annoys you?
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But D, since you believe prayer is actually doing nothing why do you care if they pray for you or not? Why would you "wish they would stop?"
Maybe you're actually not bothered if they pray, but that they tell you that they pray and in doing so share their faith w/you which annoys you?
Probably.
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i might or might not have prayed for you today bro
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Deity Killer,
What ails ya; Money, health, relationship issues? Can anyone help you and how?
HM (been there done that man)
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People pray because people care; it's their way of helping you as best as they know how. You have access to hundreds of people here, you are going to get hundreds of different kinds of responses, everyone doing and saying what they think is best.
I'm assuming, even in the state you're in, that you would choose a happy life over no life at all were you give then choice right now, and you've already done a great job striking out several options for help(like medication, religion...etc), so why don't you stop focusing on those and move onto something entirely different that might appeal to you-look towards those who have had similar issues and worse and taken care of them in a way that you can accept.
I know, for example, that I couldn't tackle any of my problems the way other people were tackling theirs(via medication), so I instead took on a major lifestyle change that kind of showed up out of nowhere and really sparked my interest and now my whole life is on track, whereas before it was far from. I was amazed at how a change in my physical lifestyle-meaning things I did on a ate and drank on a daily basis-could improve my mental health and clarity so much. I was amazed at how how treating my body as it was meant to be treated changed literally everything once it had some time to get back on track. Not much beats impeccable living in regards to getting the mind back into a healthy state-getting mentally depressed is immediately preceded by a physical cause-everytime. Why not look into that? It's actually hard to get obcessive or depressed when the body is at a certain level of good health.
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Praying for someone is a "feel good" act. It's like wearing a pink ribbon to "support" Breast Cancer but not donating any time or money to the cause. Symbolism over substance.
Very much so.
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I do not pray for you, deicide.
:)
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i actually prayed for bad things to happen to you deicide. Perhaps god works via reverse psychology, all i know is the outcome will be interesting.
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i actually prayed for bad things to happen to you deicide. Perhaps god works via reverse psychology, all i know is the outcome will be interesting.
Awesome...
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Did you watch the 50 min video?
I bet that's some funny shit.
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I'm sorry deicide, i couldn't help myself and i prayed the shit out of you. Please accept my apology.
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for anyone who would like to pray or not pray for deicide please bring your prayers or non-prayers to this thread. All help or non-help is appreciated.
anyone else pray for deicide today?
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for anyone who would like to pray or not pray for deicide please bring your prayers or non-prayers to this thread. All help or non-help is appreciated.
anyone else pray for deicide today?
maybe
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I pray for Deicide to be the best atheist in the whole wide world.
Super duper good luck.
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I'm sure a lot of people here already know (or have heard about) this, but I'll post it anyway.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6W9H-4JKC4CN-1M&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=b8f4a4b964c00cf5994be8a24111f0d5 (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6W9H-4JKC4CN-1M&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=b8f4a4b964c00cf5994be8a24111f0d5)
Background
Intercessory prayer is widely believed to influence recovery from illness, but claims of benefits are not supported by well-controlled clinical trials. Prior studies have not addressed whether prayer itself or knowledge/certainty that prayer is being provided may influence outcome. We evaluated whether (1) receiving intercessory prayer or (2) being certain of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with uncomplicated recovery after coronary artery bypass graft (CABG) surgery.Methods
Patients at 6 US hospitals were randomly assigned to 1 of 3 groups: 604 received intercessory prayer after being informed that they may or may not receive prayer; 597 did not receive intercessory prayer also after being informed that they may or may not receive prayer; and 601 received intercessory prayer after being informed they would receive prayer. Intercessory prayer was provided for 14 days, starting the night before CABG. The primary outcome was presence of any complication within 30 days of CABG. Secondary outcomes were any major event and mortality.
Results
In the 2 groups uncertain about receiving intercessory prayer, complications occurred in 52% (315/604) of patients who received intercessory prayer versus 51% (304/597) of those who did not (relative risk 1.02, 95% CI 0.92-1.15). Complications occurred in 59% (352/601) of patients certain of receiving intercessory prayer compared with the 52% (315/604) of those uncertain of receiving intercessory prayer (relative risk 1.14, 95% CI 1.02-1.28). Major events and 30-day mortality were similar across the 3 groups.
Conclusions
Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on complication-free recovery from CABG, but certainty of receiving intercessory prayer was associated with a higher incidence of complications.
Prayer is actually bad for you.