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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Nordic Superman on November 15, 2008, 03:35:26 AM
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"[Y]oung Arab men should sexually harass Israeli girls wherever they may be and using any possible method, as a new means in the resistance against Israel" -- and this from a female lawyer no less.
"Egyptian Lawyer Nagla Al-Imam Suggests Arab Men Should Sexually Harass Israeli Women and Declares: Leave the Land So We Won't Rape You,"
- from MEMRI: http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/1903.htm
Hmm, one wonders if there will be an uprising by feminists OR, as usual, will this (among many other things) be ignored due to the islamic connection? Hmm...
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1. where did u find this
2. who the hell is this bitch to warrant attention
3. who gives a rats asshole. israel can handle egypt themselves
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1. where did u find this
2. who the hell is this bitch to warrant attention
3. who gives a rats asshole. israel can handle egypt themselves
4. rant is over.
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2ND COMING it does not matter. What matters is that Muslims are just that: Muslims and evil by nature.
Any sane person wouldn't post shit like this. On the other hand...
:o :o :o
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2ND COMING it does not matter. What matters is that Muslims are just that: Muslims and evil by nature.
Any sane person wouldn't post shit like this. On the other hand...
:o :o :o
Where do I say muslims are evil by nature? ??? You got a reference for that? Islam has inherently inhuman principles.
Well... according to YOU I'm in no position to criticise islam because I inheret the guilt of the actions of my ancestors from 600+ years ago... ::) Fucking tool...
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Where do I say muslims are evil by nature? ??? You got a reference for that? Islam has inherently inhuman principles.
Well... according to YOU I'm in no position to criticise islam because I inheret the guilt of the actions of my ancestors from 600+ years ago... ::) Fucking tool...
We've had this discusion before. Nonetheless, it does not take away from the absurdity of posting something a supposed Egyptian lawyer supposedly said to Israeli women. Furthermore, why should we care about what that person said about Israeli women? We're not Israelis.
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We're not politicians, why should we discuss politics at all? ???
BTW, nice attempt to lower the credibility of the source by saying "supposed Egyptian lawyer supposedly said"... No comrade, she IS definitely a Egyptian lawyer and definitely DID make those statements. You're outstandingly apologetic.
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We're not politicians, why should we discuss politics at all? ???
BTW, nice attempt to lower the credibility of the source by saying "supposed Egyptian lawyer supposedly said"... No comrade, she IS definitely a Egyptian lawyer and definitely DID make those statements. You're outstandingly apologetic.
Yeah, but refuting that does not take away any the absurdity of the comment to begin with.
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Islam is the religion of peace and tolerance ::)
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Oh my. Here comes the Islam-bashing crusade.
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Oh my. Here comes the Islam-bashing crusade.
;D ;D ;D ;D
Muslims have never ever ever in all of history, played nice with their neighbors. Never. Just sayin.
You can bring up the Crusades and the Inquisition but you have to admit that was a little while ago.
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Muslims have never ever ever in all of history, played nice with their neighbors. Never. Just sayin.
You can bring up the Crusades and the Inquisition but you have to admit that was a little while ago.
Muslims ALWAYS fight someone, all over history they fought each other and the tribes killed themselves , they still have 2 big factions that kill each other.
Only once in history they stopped killing each other and that was under Salah A Din , even then it was just because they went into fights with all of Europe.
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"It seems to me a certainty that the fatalistic teachings of Mohammed and the utter degradation of women are the outstanding causes for the arrested development of the Arab. He is exactly as he was around the year 700, while we have kept on developing"
-George S Patton after reading the Qur'an and observing North Africans
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Oh my. Here comes the Islam-bashing crusade.
;D ;D ;D ;D
It's OK being a muslim you know, that's not your problem, it's the utterly ridiculous attempts at protecting it from criticism and suggesting islams criticism should be censored that is pathetic.
You do realise that modern stealth islamisation of Europe via demographics is the only ever peaceful conquest by islam? Ever other of its conquests was by force.
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nordic, what's your answer to all this? every week it's a new crime posted by some muslim "in the name of Islam" What do you want? I'm sure I'll get "kill em all" replies from BF and company but figured you might have a more detailed response?
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Criticism from our leaders on the practices of islamic ideology in these countries... and OUR OWN - e.g. blame islamic values for honour killings over muslim girls going out with Christian lads etc.
The end to stealth jihad, i.e. removal of shriah courts from British jurisdiction and other such ridiculous measures to keep unwilling and vocal minorities quiet - we're the country who gave the world English common law and the Magna Carta, putting every man on the same playing field and being the precursor to some of the most liberating constitutions on Earth. Why the fuck are WE of all people allowing law from the middle ages to encroch on our well proven and well founded methods of jurisdiction?
Also, hate speech laws, freedom of speech should be the forefront of laws protected for the sake of humanity, yet at this very moment the E.U. and co. are all pushing for the suppression of the freedom of speech in regards to religion... and we all REALLY know why they're doing this... a violent and vocal minority, aka muslim immigrants.
Seriously, all our political leaders know just how dangerous this ideology is, look at the Arabs, the ideology of islam has kept them 700 years behind the Anglicised parts of the world. Maybe there's a conspiracy somewhere...
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Criticism from our leaders on the practices of islamic ideology in these countries... and OUR OWN - e.g. blame islamic values for honour killings over muslim girls going out with Christian lads etc.
The end to stealth jihad, i.e. removal of shriah courts from British jurisdiction and other such ridiculous measures to keep unwilling and vocal minorities quiet - we're the country who gave the world English common law and the Magna Carta, putting every man on the same playing field and being the precursor to some of the most liberating constitutions on Earth. Why the fuck are WE of all people allowing law from the middle ages to encroch on our well proven and well founded methods of jurisdiction?
Also, hate speech laws, freedom of speech should be the forefront of laws protected for the sake of humanity, yet at this very moment the E.U. and co. are all pushing for the suppression of the freedom of speech in regards to religion... and we all REALLY know why they're doing this... a violent and vocal minority, aka muslim immigrants.
Seriously, all our political leaders know just how dangerous this ideology is, look at the Arabs, the ideology of islam has kept them 700 years behind the Anglicised parts of the world. Maybe there's a conspiracy somewhere...
ok, that all sounds good to me, I couldn't fathom in a million years being in favor of any religious control over law, especially Islam... What are the means to your goal?
You guys have hate speech laws that prevent you from being critical of Islamic laws and courts?
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"[Y]oung Arab men should sexually harass Israeli girls wherever they may be and using any possible method, as a new means in the resistance against Israel" -- and this from a female lawyer no less.
"Egyptian Lawyer Nagla Al-Imam Suggests Arab Men Should Sexually Harass Israeli Women and Declares: Leave the Land So We Won't Rape You,"
- from MEMRI: http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/1903.htm
Hmm, one wonders if there will be an uprising by feminists OR, as usual, will this (among many other things) be ignored due to the islamic connection? Hmm...
Why do you assume feminists could do anything about it Nordic? She's Egyptian, said it on Egyptian teevee... what should anyone do? If that shite flows to other countries, of course, people can speak out, but who's to tell these women what to do or say in their own?
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Why do you assume feminists could do anything about it Nordic? She's Egyptian, said it on Egyptian teevee... what should anyone do? If that shite flows to other countries, of course, people can speak out, but who's to tell these women what to do or say in their own?
Use their collective energy to highlight real issues for women around the world such as this. They should stopped spending their energies on criticising the masculation of the English language and put their efforts to some real tasks.
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nordic, what's your answer to all this? every week it's a new crime posted by some muslim "in the name of Islam" What do you want? I'm sure I'll get "kill em all" replies from BF and company but figured you might have a more detailed response?
What's this kill em all bullshit you're crying about? Why is it that any thread that Nordic or I post regarding Islam gets sideswiped by you, that dipshit Slapper and the rest of the Muslim apologists who justify their actions while blaming it all on Israel.
Newsflash, taking away Israel won't fix the Muslim problem. They'll just turn their attention to the next gripe they have with the west.
We're not politicians, why should we discuss politics at all? ???
BTW, nice attempt to lower the credibility of the source by saying "supposed Egyptian lawyer supposedly said"... No comrade, she IS definitely a Egyptian lawyer and definitely DID make those statements. You're outstandingly apologetic.
Do you find this apologist douche as pathetic as I do? The guy cannot seriously debate Islam or any other topic without dragging others (who have nothing to do with the issue) through the mud in a vain attempt to save face for his people. It's pathetic. Just goes to show how lacking his argument is and his inability to logically defend any point (probably because as a child he was raised on memorizing the Koran instead of going to school).
Regardless, can someone show me an example of an Israel calling for the systematic rape of all Muslim women? I'd like to see that. I mean, they are the problem after all. Those evil, vicious Jews. All those beheadings, suicide bombings, murdering of civilians, torturing of Muslims, rape as a tool of war, etc that they partake in surely means they are the enemy. Any examples of a female Jew calling for the rape of all Muslim women?
This is like the story last week of two Afghani girls being blinded by acid from the Taliban. God forbid they go to school like any normal human being. Force them to worship a book fabricated by some pedophile twat! Disgusting. Of course the threads about that got no responses. The Muslims like Slapper avoid them like the plague.
Islam is a religion of peace! The media fabricates all those stories and videos of beheadings, suicide bombings, torture, rape, killings of their fellow Muslims, etc. ALLAHU AKBAR!!!!
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ok, that all sounds good to me, I couldn't fathom in a million years being in favor of any religious control over law, especially Islam... What are the means to your goal?
You guys have hate speech laws that prevent you from being critical of Islamic laws and courts?
Criticism of islam is limited by two means, people ARE genuinely fearful of the aggressive muslim backlash, that we have seen TIME and TIME again.
Anti-hate speech laws also do more harm that good where the freedom of speech is involved:
http://www.dawn.com/2008/11/13/top10.htm
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23584232-details/Islamic%20radicals%20make%20mockery%20of%20hate%20laws/article.do
Also "hate speech" laws are being introduced to a possible EU constitution.
The freedom of speech details I am free to criticise whatever I want, and for you to chose not to listen to it. Ironically the freedom of speech was enshrined in law to actually protect the vocalisation of opinions verging on "hate speech", because prior to their existence, if you criticised the monarchy you may well have been giving a death sentence, brown nosing doesn't require protection by law. You get the point?
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Nordic, what's your reply to my last post. I have more confidence that you'll make way more sense than BF's meltdown. What are the means to your goal? And in what way do you call upon people like me to aid that?
No meltdown. Just pointing out your hypocrisies again, lush. :D
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Nordic, what's your reply to my last post. I have more confidence that you'll make way more sense than BF's meltdown. What are the means to your goal? And in what way do you call upon people like me to aid that?
The means is to simply divulge hard, undeniable, FACTS and for it to be accepted by the apologists.
Apologetics of islam have a lot of blood on their hands already, time will tell, in my opinion, that they will have substantially more.
It's amazing to me, that this will be the single time in history that islam has spread without violence, simply due to the apologetic governments and ideological styles that are common today. Apologetics want to give them and inch, they take a mile and the apologetics are OK with that.
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The means is to simply divulge hard, undeniable, FACTS and for it to be accepted by the apologists.
Apologetics of islam have a lot of blood on their hands already, time will tell, in my opinion, that they will have substantially more.
It's amazing to me, that this will be the single time in history that islam has spread without violence, simply due to the apologetic governments and ideological styles that are common today. Apologetics want to give them and inch, they take a mile and the apologetics are OK with that.
In this day and age it is embarrassing. So technologically advanced yet still letting barbarians and people who can just about read, let alone contribute anything beyond violence to society, walk all over them. It's disgusting and a major problem.
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ok, end "apologetics" I'm not sure I can be quoted as being apologetic to Islam but consider it done on my part. not apologizing for a religion I don't give a rats ass about should be no problem. What else?
Nice try at a play on words. You're an apologist. You've justified, on more than one occasion, extremist actions, usually blaming it on Israel or a host of other reasons. Sure you don't have to apologize for Islam itself, which has nothing to do with the main issue. ::)
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In this day and age it is embarrassing. So technologically advanced yet still letting barbarians and people who can just about read, let alone contribute anything beyond violence to society, walk all over them. It's disgusting and a major problem.
This is THE problem, needs fixing, and FAST.
"All that it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"
ok, end "apologetics" I'm not sure I can be quoted as being apologetic to Islam but consider it done on my part. not apologizing for a religion I don't give a rats ass about should be no problem. What else?
Ban on islamic schools, and any government hand outs they might attain for having "school" status. Drastically reduce the number of undesirables from muslim countries. Strict laws to punish terrorism, attempted and support of such activities either financial or by producing propaganda..
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quotes please, so I can properly respond to your accusation...
Sorry Tonto, I don't have time to dig through your posting history, unlike you certain people who have all the time in the world to dig through thousands of posts made by other members across all the sub-forums of Getbig. :D
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Ok, can't help you on banning Islamic schools. Unless you have suggestions for me. I wouldn't even know where to find one.
2nd, you mean Bush and Blair/Brown didn't do a good enough job punishing terrorism? At this point I have to say you're not coming clean on your means to an end. What exactly do you want and how do we get there? If what Bush did was not good enough for you in the area of terrorism, you have more beans to spill.
Huh?
Don't make the assumption that my policies are international. Quite obviously I have implied they are DOMESTIC policies that should be inherited. I don't think enough has been done on BRITISH SOIL to combat the growth of islamism and the subsequent terrorism it will forever destined to produce.
Brown is a fucking retard who I don't want to give credit to for one second, Bush's attack on Iraq was ill-fated, because quite frankly, the whisky drinking, cigar smoking Saddam really knew how to deal with islamism.
Punishing terrorism is an after thought, show me which of my proposed policies are an afterthought to a problem, rather than what I believe them to be: a cure.
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now I'm lost... back to basics, you bring this stuff to this board frequently... What do you want from us? 1... 2... 3... list it bro...
Oh right, from people?
Honest discussion minus straw man arguments and the general apologetics towards the issues brought forward.
1st real comment by Slapper was apologetic nonsense.
You yourself came into the thread asking me a question, rather that discussing the topic at hand. Do you see ME asking you what your prerogative is in each of your posts?
My main aim is to highlight islam as a dangerous anti-humane all-encompassing suppressive ideology which is directly responsible for numerous atrocities world wide. I don't want people to believe terrorists were influenced by islam only, I want people to accept the fact that islam itself promotes and glorifies such atrocious cowardly acts.
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Oh right, from people?
Honest discussion minus straw man arguments and the general apologetics towards the issues brought forward.
Meaning what you want to hear: Towelhead-bashing. Are you Israeli?
1st real comment by Slapper was apologetic nonsense.
And what is it that I am apologizing for? ???
My main aim is to highlight islam as a dangerous anti-humane all-encompassing suppressive ideology which is directly responsible for numerous atrocities world wide. I don't want people to believe terrorists were influenced by islam only, I want people to accept the fact that islam itself promotes and glorifies such atrocious cowardly acts.
Once you realise it's the people not the ideologies that kill you can then go on to more fruitful and enlightning discussions
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I understand, it's a total pain in the ass to hit the search button ::) totally 30 seconds wasted you'll never recover.... Mr. clueless, did you know you can choose to only search the political forum, by member, not thousands of posts?.... actually by the time you took to reply, my guess is that you searched and couldn't find anything, just as I suspected....
p'wned ;)
Actually I put my laptop into hibernate as I had an assignment to be doing, but nice try. You really aren't that important, apologist. By the way, the only people who spell pwned like that are usually complete retards who are about 40 years too old to be saying it in the first place, Squanto.
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Meaning what you want to hear: Towelhead-bashing. Are you Israeli?
And what is it that I am apologizing for? ???
Once you realise it's the people not the ideologies that kill you can then go on to more fruitful and enlightning discussions
Where do I said I want to hear towel head bashing? ??? Got a reference where that's what I desire?
Apologizing? Research the term, you obviously don't know what it means.
Here's an A-class example of apologetics:
Nonetheless, it does not take away from the absurdity of posting something a supposed Egyptian lawyer supposedly said to Israeli women.
You see, you simply do not deal with REALITY. Every statement goes through some kind of apologetic warping mechanism in your brain which reduces facts to questionable assertions, such as the Egyptian woman's profession, and even the credibility of the statement she made, even though she DID say it and IS a lawyer.
It's the ideology. Islam, Nazism, Zionism, White-supremacy, Black-supremacy etc. all ideologies that lead good people to become perpetrators of evil.
I've highlighted before the very little you know about islam itself, so to make the statement it's not the islamic ideology is an absolute sham.
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Where do I said I want to hear towel head bashing? ??? Got a reference where that's what I desire?
Apologizing? Research the term, you obviously don't know what it means.
Here's an A-class example of apologetics:
You see, you simply do not deal with REALITY. Every statement goes through some kind of apologetic warping mechanism in your brain which reduces facts to questionable assertions, such as the Egyptian woman's profession, and even the credibility of the statement she made, even though she DID say it and IS a lawyer.
It's the ideology. Islam, Nazism, Zionism, White-supremacy, Black-supremacy etc. all ideologies that lead good people to become perpetrators of evil.
I've highlighted before the very little you know about islam itself, so to make the statement it's not the islamic ideology is an absolute sham.
Would you consider marring a Muslim woman?
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Would you consider marring a Muslim woman?
Depends on her openness to western ideals and how comfortable she is with them, if we planned kids I'd only accept that they were allowed to make up their own minds.
I could never marry someone who wanted me to get involved in their religion, or if it was a big any thing to get in the way (includes all religions).
To be honest I couldn't see myself doing it, because the simply fact is she's prescribing to a thought process I fundamentally do not agree with.
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it is true islam has been a generally deplorable religion which causes unrest and violence everywhere it goes.
however in cases where these tendencies are directed towards israel, then its fine by me :)
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it is true islam has been a generally deplorable religion which causes unrest and violence everywhere it goes.
however in cases where these tendencies are directed towards israel, then its fine by me :)
I am curious, what do you have agaisnt Isreal?
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Where do I said I want to hear towel head bashing? ??? Got a reference where that's what I desire?
Well, it is obvious some things about Islam irritate the heck out of you. That's why you repeatedly post stuff involving this religion, to see if there are any others out there that think like you (I guess).
Apologizing? Research the term, you obviously don't know what it means.
Dude, answer the friggin question: WHAT AM I APOLOGIZING FOR? Me saying that the comment contains a lot os suppositions is not an apology, it's an observation.
You see, you simply do not deal with REALITY.
Ahhhhh, and I guess YOU DO deal with reality. I guess you also sell by the bottle and want me to buy some for $ 10.00 a pop right? Where have I heard this shit before?
Every statement goes through some kind of apologetic warping mechanism in your brain which reduces facts to questionable assertions, such as the Egyptian woman's profession, and even the credibility of the statement she made, even though she DID say it and IS a lawyer.
To be hones with you, knowing how NOTICEABLY ABSENT the Islamic voice is in mainstream debate here in the States I can honestly say that most of the shit being thrown out there is nothing but pure propaganda. Don't get me wrong, there are bad motherfuckers amongst Muslims, just as there are bad motherfuckers amongst Christians or any other group. If this is in some way perceived as "apologetic" by you, then... I'm sorry, you're retarded.
[...]all ideologies that lead good people to become perpetrators of evil.
Not at all. I insist that it's not the ideologies that kill, it's the individuals. Nazism cannot shoot anyone. Zionism cannot torture. It's the individual who picks up a gun and shoots someone.
I've highlighted before the very little you know about islam itself, so to make the statement it's not the islamic ideology is an absolute sham.
I do not have the slightest idea what you are talking about. I hope you're not the stalking type.
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Slapper I think I can hear your Moazin calling you for prayer.
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Well, it is obvious some things about Islam irritate the heck out of you. That's why you repeatedly post stuff involving this religion, to see if there are any others out there that think like you (I guess).
Dude, answer the friggin question: WHAT AM I APOLOGIZING FOR? Me saying that the comment contains a lot os suppositions is not an apology, it's an observation.
Ahhhhh, and I guess YOU DO deal with reality. I guess you also sell by the bottle and want me to buy some for $ 10.00 a pop right? Where have I heard this shit before?
To be hones with you, knowing how NOTICEABLY ABSENT the Islamic voice is in mainstream debate here in the States I can honestly say that most of the shit being thrown out there is nothing but pure propaganda. Don't get me wrong, there are bad motherfuckers amongst Muslims, just as there are bad motherfuckers amongst Christians or any other group. If this is in some way perceived as "apologetic" by you, then... I'm sorry, you're retarded.
Not at all. I insist that it's not the ideologies that kill, it's the individuals. Nazism cannot shoot anyone. Zionism cannot torture. It's the individual who picks up a gun and shoots someone.
I do not have the slightest idea what you are talking about. I hope you're not the stalking type.
Islam does irritate me, obviously I have some obvious clashes with its principles with my own morality. I don't post it to see if there are others like me, but to believe that is your prorogation.
Being an apologist, doesn't mean your apologizing for them. What are the suppositions? You don't get it, you were the one that ADDED the suppositions:
We've had this discusion before. Nonetheless, it does not take away from the absurdity of posting something a supposed Egyptian lawyer supposedly said to Israeli women. Furthermore, why should we care about what that person said about Israeli women? We're not Israelis.
You now think the suppositions bare reality, even tho you added them...
Genocide for example is a direct manifestation of the ideologies of Nazism in the physical world.
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Nordic, you make some good points. Many muslims carry their customs, religion and culture with them to the western nations they transplant too and seek to cluster with others who don't want to assimilate. We must have cultural tolerance but not be pushed to accept their laws and traditions into western culture. They should assimilate to western ways if thats where they choose to settle. Demanding sharia law and changes to public facilities to accomodate them is ridiculous. Nearly everyone has an issue with militant islamic radicals but muslims as a whole would be better accepted if they weren't so inflexible and demanding of their ways on their surroundings. I see many of them as an inflexible people...which is not good. Ultimately, the details of religion are man made so I don't find it necessary to accomodate barbaric religious practices and customs.
Nordic, where are you from? Somewhere in the UK I gather. In my visit to England last year, I found it to be amazing. I loved it. I hope the continued influx of muslim immigrants do not change traditional british culture, which I found wonderful.
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Islam does irritate me, obviously I have some obvious clashes with its principles with my own morality. I don't post it to see if there are others like me, but to believe that is your prorogation.
Being an apologist, doesn't mean your apologizing for them. What are the suppositions? You don't get it, you were the one that ADDED the suppositions:
You now think the suppositions bare reality, even tho you added them...
What is really odd (not in a good way) is how you find it in your heart to criticize me for my suppositions yet you are humanly incapable (or unwilling) to see the wrong in applying something a crazy bitch may have said in Egypt to all of Islam's common thought. And please, if you want to call me an apologist, do so, but tell me what I am apologizing for. A warning: My "defending" Islam has nothing to do with religion and all to do with commom sense. Had you said the Vietnamese or Chinese are evil murderers because they profess an "evil" discipline I'd be saying similar things... not because I do not like you, but because I know better.
Genocide for example is a direct manifestation of the ideologies of Nazism in the physical world.
Dude, I keep saying ideologies do not kill people and you keep, stubbornly, implying they do, I suspect because they fit perfectly with your argument. You do not have to believe me, you can check it out yourself. I mean, for example, let's look at how ideologies and crime are treated in ANY court of law. Take, for example the Nazi movement and what eventually took place in Germany, Poland and, to a lesser extent, other central European countries. Let's frame the Nuremberg trials: Borman, Göring, Hess, Speers, etc; all individuals, SOME members of the Nazi party, some not. Yet criminal behaviour was found on an INDIVIDUAL basis. Which translates into the Law of the Land does not believe the "voices in your head" (a.k.a. ideologies, religions, etc) made you do it. And in fact this is the case in the inmense majority of countries on this planet.
Going back to the subject of Islam, I understand it is a religion that needs to jump many centuries in the realm of humanities, but anyone would argue, correctly I must say, that that is the case with MOST religions. We can sit here and make this another boring hate-the-sand-niggga thread or we can talk about what makes some radicalized Muslims react the way they do. They are, after all, like it or not, human beings.
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[...]traditional british culture
Does such a thing even exist?
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I'm no expert....I guess what is historically seen as British. When I was in England, everyone seemed like they blended very well...whites and blacks particularly. The only people I saw that were much different were some of the muslims in northeast London.
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What is really odd (not in a good way) is how you find it in your heart to criticize me for my suppositions yet you are humanly incapable (or unwilling) to see the wrong in applying something a crazy bitch may have said in Egypt to all of Islam's common thought. And please, if you want to call me an apologist, do so, but tell me what I am apologizing for. A warning: My "defending" Islam has nothing to do with religion and all to do with commom sense. Had you said the Vietnamese or Chinese are evil murderers because they profess an "evil" discipline I'd be saying similar things... not because I do not like you, but because I know better.
Dude, I keep saying ideologies do not kill people and you keep, stubbornly, implying they do, I suspect because they fit perfectly with your argument. You do not have to believe me, you can check it out yourself. I mean, for example, let's look at how ideologies and crime are treated in ANY court of law. Take, for example the Nazi movement and what eventually took place in Germany, Poland and, to a lesser extent, other central European countries. Let's frame the Nuremberg trials: Borman, Göring, Hess, Speers, etc; all individuals, SOME members of the Nazi party, some not. Yet criminal behaviour was found on an INDIVIDUAL basis. Which translates into the Law of the Land does not believe the "voices in your head" (a.k.a. ideologies, religions, etc) made you do it. And in fact this is the case in the inmense majority of countries on this planet.
Going back to the subject of Islam, I understand it is a religion that needs to jump many centuries in the realm of humanities, but anyone would argue, correctly I must say, that that is the case with MOST religions. We can sit here and make this another boring hate-the-sand-niggga thread or we can talk about what makes some radicalized Muslims react the way they do. They are, after all, like it or not, human beings.
Again, being an apologetic doesn't meaning you're directly apologizing for islamic ideology.
There are lines upon lines of verses in the koran saying non-muslim women should be kept as slaves or as wives, amongst other distasteful moral actions and positions.
I never said ideologies killed people, but their influence does. Much like guns don't go out to shoot people, it requires someone to fire the gun to kill.
You do understand that certain aspects of "Nazism", the Nazi ideology are banned outright in Germany? Why should an ideology required to be censored, after all, it never brought anybody any harm, as you put it, it was the INDIVIDUALS that were guilty, not their inspiration.
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Malaysia's top Islamic body fresh from banning tomboys issued an edict Saturday that prohibits Muslims from practicing yoga, saying that elements of Hinduism in the ancient Indian exercise could corrupt them.
...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081122/ap_on_re_as/as_malaysia_no_yoga_for_muslims;_ylt=AhsUE6sg03W8af92q7.ezN6s0NUE
Hahahahaha
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Just bumping this up to bring the fact that aspects of Nazi ideology are banned in Germany.
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Again, being an apologetic doesn't meaning you're directly apologizing for islamic ideology.
Am I "indirectly" apologizing for Islam then?
There are lines upon lines of verses in the koran saying non-muslim women should be kept as slaves or as wives, amongst other distasteful moral actions and positions.
Yes, and our constitution stated that blacks were 3/5 of a person. I believe it was subsequently amended. Likewise with some state constitutions which abolished interracial marriage until (almost) 1970. It was quietly removed from the books. Apply the same standards and vices to this particular case if you will.
I never said ideologies killed people, but their influence does. Much like guns don't go out to shoot people, it requires someone to fire the gun to kill.
Really?! Nordic dixit:"My main aim is to highlight Islam as a dangerous anti-humane all-encompassing suppressive ideology which is directly responsible for numerous atrocities world wide". I Rest my case.
You do understand that certain aspects of "Nazism", the Nazi ideology are banned outright in Germany?
That is simply NOT TRUE.
The German government has declared unconstitutional all political parties professing national socialism, not allowing Nazi symbols to be displayed in public or their assembly/congregation in public. Now, the key words here are IN PUBLIC. Nazis are free to do as they like IN PRIVATE. And most of all, it's impossible to ban an ideology. It's an oxymoron. You can't ban thought!
Why should an ideology required to be censored, after all, it never brought anybody any harm, as you put it, it was the INDIVIDUALS that were guilty, not their inspiration.
Well, if you do not believe me just check out all the accusations against all these radical Islamic extremists: where they accused of being Islamic radicals? No they were accused on counts of murder, plans to commit murder, etc. All in on INDIVIDUAL basis.
Like I said, I pretend not for you to take my word as fact, so please feel free to check out public records.
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Just bumping this up to bring the fact that aspects of Nazi ideology are banned in Germany.
That is NOT TRUE.
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Am I "indirectly" apologizing for Islam then?
Yes, and our constitution stated that blacks were 3/5 of a person. I believe it was subsequently amended. Likewise with some state constitutions which abolished interracial marriage until (almost) 1970. It was quietly removed from the books. Apply the same standards and vices to this particular case if you will.
Really?! Nordic dixit:"My main aim is to highlight Islam as a dangerous anti-humane all-encompassing suppressive ideology which is directly responsible for numerous atrocities world wide". I Rest my case.
That is simply NOT TRUE.
The German government has declared unconstitutional all political parties professing national socialism, not allowing Nazi symbols to be displayed in public or their congregation in public. Now, the key words here are IN PUBLIC. Nazis are free to do as they like IN PRIVATE. And most of all, it's impossible to ban an ideology. It's an oxymoron. You can't ban thought!
Well, if you do not believe me just check out all the accusations against all these radical Islamic extremists: where they accused of being Islamic radicals? No they were accused on counts of murder, plans to commit murder, etc. All in an INDIVIDUAL basis.
Like I said, I pretend not for you to take my word as fact, so please feel free to check out public records.
The constitution isn't perfect, but it's irrelevant here considering islam and the constitution exist mutually exclusively.
You can't ban thought, but banning expression of thought outright is different.
"Accusations against all these radical Islamic extremists" "No they were accused on counts of murder, plans to commit murder, etc. All in an INDIVIDUAL basis."
What connects them? Had they been Buddhists, would they have committed the same atrocities? What was their driving force, their inspiration?
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That is NOT TRUE.
What's not true? Grammatically speaking, it's true only the actions of the ideology are banned, subscription not so.
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What's not true? Grammatically speaking, it's true only the actions of the ideology are banned, subscription not so.
No, saying that the Nazi ideology is banned in Germany is just an outright LIE. Its symbols have been shunned from PUBLIC display, but anyone interested in the matter can just walk into any Nazi bar in any town in Germany and see to the opposite of wat you are saying.
Now, insinuating that you can somehow "ban" and ideology... WOW!! That takes some imagination!!
You may ask: "How does this guy know?". I've been to one myself.
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The constitution isn't perfect, but it's irrelevant here considering islam and the constitution exist mutually exclusively.
It is irrelevant from YOUR point of view. Besides, I just included that example to show how we use double standards depending on who does the hating. If we do it, it's not "relevant". If we're talking about Islam then it's a free for all. The usual Hypocrisy.
You can't ban thought, but banning expression of thought outright is different.
"Accusations against all these radical Islamic extremists" "No they were accused on counts of murder, plans to commit murder, etc. All in an INDIVIDUAL basis."
What connects them?
That they're murderers!
Had they been Buddhists, would they have committed the same atrocities? What was their driving force, their inspiration?
You're dangerously levitating back to insinuating that it's Islam that kills and not the "nutcases" that think about the 70 virgins waiting for them up there when they blow up 70 virgins here on earth.
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So your whole argument is that islam doesn't commit the crimes therefore is OK?
And mine is that islam is an inspiration and justification for such murders. In this way islamic ideology is the danger and frank debate (which you in the past wished to censor) is the key weapon.
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So your whole argument is that islam doesn't commit the crimes therefore is OK?
And mine is that islam is an inspiration and justification for such murders. In this way islamic ideology is the danger and frank debate (which you in the past wished to censor) is the key weapon.
No dude, no. Firstly, I've never censored A SINGLE WORD you said. You have to learn that just because someone does not agree with you does not mean they automatically disagree. I happen to agree with some of the stuff you post, but I happen to know that my religion has caused worst fate onto humanity (be it 20, 50 or 100 years ago... or 1000 years ago).
LET THEE WHO HASN'T SINNED CAST THE FIRST STONE.
Remember that?
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No dude, no. Firstly, I've never censored A SINGLE WORD you said. You have to learn that just because someone does not agree with you does not mean they automatically disagree. I happen to agree with some of the stuff you post, but I happen to know that my religion has caused worst fate onto humanity (be it 20, 50 or 100 years ago... or 1000 years ago).
LET THEE WHO HASN'T SINNED CAST THE FIRST STONE.
Remember that?
I'm not religious, no religion is mine, I bare no guilt for its action anywhere, anytime.
Could you explain how Christianity has killed more than religion x, y or z? ???
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I'm not religious[...]
Of course you're not! That is why half of your shit has a religious undertone to it. ::) ::) ::) ::)
[...]no religion is mine[...]
Of course not! That is why you are such an Islamophobe and yet, in the same sentence, ask me to explain why I say that Christianity has killed more human beings than any other religion.
Cheers mate!
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Of course you're not! That is why half of your shit has a religious undertone to it. ::) ::) ::) ::)
Of course not! That is why you are such an Islamophobe and yet, in the same sentence, ask me to explain why I say that Christianity has killed more human beings than any other religion.
Cheers mate!
You made the assertion that I believe to be false, considering using your own logic, NO RELIGION has ever killed a single person or is responsible.
I'm most certainly atheist.
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You made the assertion that I believe to be false, considering using your own logic, NO RELIGION has ever killed a single person or is responsible.
I NEVER said such a thing. It was about the Nazi ideologies I was talking about, not religion. Trouble reading? Religion is not an ideology.
I'm most certainly atheist.
Right, that is why you love to indulge in verbal diarrhea about Islam, requiring little or no fact from the ones that take the bait and yet, all of a sudden, when someone says that Christianism has killed thousands of human beings, you expect links, quotes and 4-page dissertations to back your statement.
Riiiiiight!
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I NEVER said such a thing. It was about the Nazi ideologies I was talking about, not religion. Trouble reading? Religion is not an ideology.
Right, that is why you love to indulge in verbal diarrhea about Islam, requiring little or no fact from the ones that take the bait and yet, all of a sudden, when someone says that Christianism has killed thousands of human beings, you expect links, quotes and 4-page dissertations to back your statement.
Riiiiiight!
Sorry, islam is ideological - FACT.
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Sorry, islam is ideological - FACT.
Is Islam a religion or not?
Let us see what, for example, Wikipedia has to say: "Islam (Arabic: الإسلام; al-'islām (help·info); pronounced: [ɪs.ˈlæːm][note 1]) is a monotheistic, Abrahamic religion originating with the teachings of the Islamic prophet Muhammad, a 7th century Arab religious and political figure."
Webster's online dictionary: "Islam, the monotheistic religion of Muslims based on the Koran.".
Note, no VERY BIG NOTE: A religion IS NOT an ideology.
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[...]Could you explain how Christianity has killed more than religion x, y or z? ???
Take, for example, the account of de las Casas and his description of the "discovery" of America, its subsequent colonization and Christianization: "At a conservative estimate, the despotic and diabolical behaviour of the Christians has, over the last forty years, led to the unjust and totally unwarranted deaths of more than twelve million souls, women and children among them, and there are grounds for believing my own estimate of more than fifteen million to be nearer the mark."
Source (http://www.wise.virginia.edu/history/wciv2/casas.html).
Do you REALLY want me to keep going?
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Is Islam a religion or not?
Let us see what, for example, Wikipedia has to say: "Islam (Arabic: الإسلام; al-'islām (help·info); pronounced: [ɪs.ˈlæːm][note 1]) is a monotheistic, Abrahamic religion originating with the teachings of the Islamic prophet Muhammad, a 7th century Arab religious and political figure."
Note, no VERY BIG NOTE: A religion IS NOT an ideology.
Sorry to interject myself into the midst of your argument with NS, but methinks you're splitting hairs here. Religion, ideology... really what's the difference? It's more an issue of semantics and/or degrees and it sounds like you'd disagree with anything he said no matter what. Like if he said "the sky is blue" you'd say "technically it's more of an azure color." And to be fair, the reverse is probably also true.
And also to be fair, the Christians (or more specifically, the Catholic church) certainly don't have an unblemished record in the area of human rights. But really you've got to go back hundreds of years to cite examples.
You've got to admit, the Christians haven't beheaded anybody recently or declared a fatwah on any authors of controversial books. They've kinda moved on from that. Whereas... well, you know what I'm saying.
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Sorry to interject myself into the midst of your argument with NS, but methinks you're splitting hairs here. Religion, ideology... really what's the difference? It's more an issue of semantics and/or degrees and it sounds like you'd disagree with anything he said no matter what. Like if he said "the sky is blue" you'd say "technically it's more of an azure color." And to be fair, the reverse is probably also true.
And also to be fair, the Christians (or more specifically, the Catholic church) certainly don't have an unblemished record in the area of human rights. But really you've got to go back hundreds of years to cite examples.
You've got to admit, the Christians haven't beheaded anybody recently or declared a fatwah on any authors of controversial books. They've kinda moved on from that. Whereas... well, you know what I'm saying.
No, not really. I've already told Nordic that I agree with some of the stuff he says. I mean, we agree on the fact that religions ought to be abolished. Period.
Now, on the fact that the differences are of the semantic kind... I have to disagree with you on that. A religion is a well organized body, with its own parallel institutions and books of faith. An ideology is not cohesively organized at all, and the majority of its actions are made ad hoc, not premeditatedly as with a religion. So if your argument is that, in this case, the difference between an ideology and a religion is not valid I obviously disagree.
All these discussions about Islam are terribly one sided. People have real difficulty in realising that ALL religions are fucked up. And I'm sorry, but many deaths have been caused by Christians just 60 years ago (look at the Jasenovac concentration camp or the protagonism of Spanish priesthood during the Spanish civil war, for example) for anyone to refute Christianity's supposed good intentions. So the entire argument, from the Christian side has been "see, we haven't killed anyone in the past 50 years. We are good. You Muslims are evil because you killed 50 (or 100 thousand) non-muslims in the past 10 years". What kind of stupid argument is that?
Not to say that Muslims are spring chickens, but I do see a certain tendency to act on the defensive on their part, which has, as of very recently turned to an offensive one due, in part, to our invasion of two Muslim countries (for whatever reason). Take the Moro Crater (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moro_Crater_Massacre) massacre, which may have not even taken place due to religious reasons, but multiply it by 10 and you will see plenty of motives for Muslims to be pissed. Add to it the fact that their opinions are NOTICEABLY absent from Western opinion and you have the situation we have now. Imagine a rich Muslim country invaded two Christian countries? All Christians would be up in arms putting together a Christian force to fight them. It's this level of hypocrisy that I can't stand and hence what motivates me to politely disagree with everything every Islamophobe has to say. I don't just disagree for the heck of it (which is what you are insinuating) I disagree because I know otherwise.
Ciao.
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Yes, I am insinuating that the whole argument may have degraded somewhat and you can't deny that ideology is at the very least a subset of religion.
As far as organized religion--I don't think it's intrinsically bad (the good far outweighs the bad) but it does seem to attract the kooks, weirdos and nutjobs of society and give them a cause to attach themselves to, to lend credence and validity to their kooky obsessions.
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Yes, I am insinuating that the whole argument may have degraded somewhat and you can't deny that ideology is at the very least a subset of religion.
Not at all. Is Nazism a subset of religion? Is capitalism a subset of religion?
As far as organized religion--I don't think it's intrinsically bad (the good far outweighs the bad) but it does seem to attract the kooks, weirdos and nutjobs of society and give them a cause to attach themselves to, to lend credence and validity to their kooky obsessions.
Yes, I agree, but if you look at it in human terms... Was the "discovery" of America worth the death of 20+ million human beings? Is the supposed segregation of Muslims in India worth the death of 150 people? And on and on. Yes, beautiful churches, beautiful cemeteries, yada yada yada, and at the same time, MILLIONS of dead motherfuckers. Nice.
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Not at all. Is Nazism a subset of religion?
Yes, I agree, but if you look at it in human terms... Was the "discovery" of America worth the death of 20+ million human beings? Is the supposed segregation of Muslims in India worth the death of 150 people? And on and on. Yes, beautiful churches, beautiful cemeteries, yada yada yada, and at the same time, MILLIONS of dead motherfuckers. Nice.
I define one's religion as one's world view, more or less. Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Atheism, Naziism, Humanism, etc (notice all the ism's)... the set of principles and beliefs that guide one's life and daily decisions. It seems pretty simple.
I'm not just referring to nice churches and cemeteries but all the good that the vast majority of people in the world do on a daily basis, in an attempt to live true to their highest ideals, that never gets recognized by the world at large. It is a shame that it all tends to get overshadowed by the despotic actions of a few.
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Is Islam a religion or not?
Let us see what, for example, Wikipedia has to say: "Islam (Arabic: الإسلام; al-'islām (help·info); pronounced: [ɪs.ˈlæːm][note 1]) is a monotheistic, Abrahamic religion originating with the teachings of the Islamic prophet Muhammad, a 7th century Arab religious and political figure."
Webster's online dictionary: "Islam, the monotheistic religion of Muslims based on the Koran.".
Note, no VERY BIG NOTE: A religion IS NOT an ideology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideology
An ideology is a set of beliefs, aims and ideas, especially in politics. An ideology can be thought of as a comprehensive vision, as a way of looking at things (compare Weltanschauung), as in common sense (see Ideology in everyday society below) and several philosophical tendencies (see Political ideologies), or a set of ideas proposed by the dominant class of a society to all members of this society. The main purpose behind an ideology is to offer change in society through a normative thought process. Ideologies are systems of abstract thought (as opposed to mere ideation) applied to public matters and thus make this concept central to politics. Implicitly every political tendency entails an ideology whether or not it is propounded as an explicit system of thought.
Does islam produce a all encompassing framework for society and its governing laws (sharia)? Because Wikipedia states it's a religion (which I never said it wasn't) it's not ideological?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideology
An ideology is a set of beliefs, aims and ideas, especially in politics. An ideology can be thought of as a comprehensive vision, as a way of looking at things (compare Weltanschauung), as in common sense (see Ideology in everyday society below) and several philosophical tendencies (see Political ideologies), or a set of ideas proposed by the dominant class of a society to all members of this society. The main purpose behind an ideology is to offer change in society through a normative thought process. Ideologies are systems of abstract thought (as opposed to mere ideation) applied to public matters and thus make this concept central to politics. Implicitly every political tendency entails an ideology whether or not it is propounded as an explicit system of thought.
Does islam produce a all encompassing framework for society and its governing laws (sharia)? Because Wikipedia states it's a religion (which I never said it wasn't) it's not ideological?
Not only Wilipedia, Webster's dictionary, etc. If you want me to I will post many other sources, since you refuse to check it out yourself (or so it seems).
Are you saying Islam is a pseudo-ideology and not a religion?
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I define one's religion as one's world view, more or less. Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Atheism, Naziism, Humanism, etc (notice all the ism's)... the set of principles and beliefs that guide one's life and daily decisions. It seems pretty simple.
Wow, wow, you're mixing pears and apples here. I'm an avid atheist and have no belief system nor do my principles have anything to do with atheist "non" belief, and all to do with humanism.
I'm not just referring to nice churches and cemeteries but all the good that the vast majority of people in the world do on a daily basis, in an attempt to live true to their highest ideals, that never gets recognized by the world at large. It is a shame that it all tends to get overshadowed by the despotic actions of a few.
Sure, nazism had one of the best welfare system in human history, and it had a very positive economic impact on the German economy. Should we forget that nazis murdered almost 10 million human beings? No. Pure nonesense. ALL religions should be abolished from public display. Fuck God.
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Not only Wilipedia, Webster's dictionary, etc. If you want me to I will post many other sources, since you refuse to check it out yourself (or so it seems).
Are you saying Islam is a pseudo-ideology and not a religion?
No, it's an ideology and religion.
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I live in europe and I deal with muslim people pretty much every single day and I live in a suburb with a very high % habituated by muslims.
I can tell you that islam and it's culture makes it followers fuckin stupid. They are rude, won't assimilate and suppress women to a disgusting extent. They usually are very low-educated and happily builds "ghettos" and live on welfare money. As I said, I deal with them daily both through work and otherwise and if I wanna stand for good morals and critical thinking I simply cannot accept islam taking over my country.
The islamisation of europe doesn't have to be stopped in a Hitler genocide fashion but this politically correct bullshit about respecting islam and faith overall has to stop.
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A Russian church for a Saudi mosque?
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=147332 (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=147332)
interesting
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A Russian church for a Saudi mosque?
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=147332 (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=147332)
interesting
Hahaha, I love it! Bully for the Russians. With that kind of attitude... the US and Europe would do well to follow suit and not just tuck their respective tails between their legs in the face of this kind of outrageous hypocrisy.