Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: BobbyHasBeenBad on November 30, 2008, 05:57:07 AM
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Is it important to get one after all workouts of if you don't get one does that mean the workout was not as good as it should have been?
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no pump no life
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I'd actually love to get an answer to this; it's such a relative subject that it's hard to guage. I pretty much always have a pump during a workout, but I wonder if you can draw any conclusions based on that.
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I would say it's nice but not essential.
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I'd actually love to get an answer to this; it's such a relative subject that it's hard to guage. I pretty much always have a pump during a workout, but I wonder if you can draw any conclusions based on that.
There's no definitive answer. In all likelihood YES as PART of a MIX of factors that have to be combined.
Those would include pump, the use of fairly heavy weights + moderate 6-12 reps + rests between sets of 30 seconds-1.5 minutes + going to failure at least part of the time. On the other hand a pump by itself without some of the other factors, for example extremely light weight and too many reps isn't of value.
In that context i think it's important both physically and psychologically. Psychologically it's huge in having a good workout IMO, and i believe that physically it's an essential part of workouts if all the other criteria are also satisfied.
Getbig:
one thing I realized is back takes forever and make sure and get a pump before ur done w the bodypart ur training. I squat the same amount when my wheels looked nothing like they do now, and same goes for back- my back was strong, but not impressive until I started getting good pumps
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=249166.0
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IMO,it`s best to get a good pump in all bodyparts.
Maybe not essential,but probably better than not getting one.
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Clinically, there is no direct correlation between pump and hypertrophy, although lots of guys swear by its benefits.
A pump simply means there’s blood in the muscle.
But blood transports oxygen and nutrients to those muscles.
As Pumpster mentions, a pump is probably good when it’s a byproduct of other various factors, but just doing 3 sets of 10 lb. curls to failure will not likely do much for growth.
Training with a (somewhat) lighter weight that does yield a pump is occasionally good for training the slow twitch fibers that many people neglect when simply going heavy for low reps all the time.
There are some (natural) folks on this board who train Milos-style with the giant sets and all, and report fantastic results.
A lot of it has to do with intensity levels as well.
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Alright well let me ask you this, what is the difference between training to failure with heavy weights and low reps and training to failure with light weights and high reps-say, 20-30?
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If I don't get a pump then I'm doing something wrong.If the bodypart I trained is not sore the next day or two then I didn't hit it hard enough.thats what I go by And for me has worked well.
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If I don't get a pump then I'm doing something wrong.If the bodypart I trained is not sore the next day or two then I didn't hit it hard enough.thats what I go by And for me has worked well.
Agree with both, that should be the goal. Adjust things if it's not happening. Learn, adapt.
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Its like cuming!
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for a lot of people, they use the pump as an indicator that they've "done enough", so while itself a pump doesn't indicate a "good workout", it COULD be seen as a "finish line".
that said, the muscles i feel the biggest pumps in never seemed to grow the best for me (calves, biceps), meanwhile i've never felt a trap pump, a hamstring pump, or a lower back pump and those are my best areas. additionally, i've grown the most in the chest and triceps training chiefly in a lower rep area and... no pump to be had there.
so my gut says "no", but that's hardly definitive.
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Alright well let me ask you this, what is the difference between training to failure with heavy weights and low reps and training to failure with light weights and high reps-say, 20-30?
The difference between working Type I and Type II muscle fibers.
Failure in the high rep range works the Type I slow twitch / endurance fibers.
Failure in the low rep range hits your Type II fast twitch fibers.
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Nothing beats a delts/bicep/tricep pump at the same time. I rarely, if ever have a workout where I don't get a pump. I'm sticking with that even if there's no proven benefits.
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Agree with both, that should be the goal. Adjust things if it's not happening. Learn, adapt.
I disagree on both.
I've bodyparts that got no pump and no soreness and yet they've grown.
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I disagree on both.
I've bodyparts that got no pump and no soreness and yet they've grown.
Right, and you also don't go to failure and do 20 sets a muscle with no intensity.
In that case let's see some pics.
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In that case let's see some pics.
After you
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After you
Go ahead. You're the one using zero intensity, never going to failure, never getting a pump, never getting sore while doing dozens of sets per muscle. I highly doubt you lift.
Bluto started posting on the training board today after i got after his ass for the lack of contribution here. It works every time-for a few days. ;)
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Go ahead. You're the one using zero intensity, never going to failure, never getting a pump, never getting sore while doing dozens of sets per muscle. I highly doubt you lift.
Bluto started posting on the training board today after i got after his ass for the lack of contribution here. It works every time-for a few days. ;)
It's only fair that if you requests pictures of others that you post one of yourself, don't you think? I've seen you mock others physiques hundreds of times and ask for people to post their pictures, yet you never post one of yourself, why is that?
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watching you two argue about who should post their pictures is pretty damn amusing, i must admit.
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The difference between working Type I and Type II muscle fibers.
Failure in the high rep range works the Type I slow twitch / endurance fibers.
Failure in the low rep range hits your Type II fast twitch fibers.
The different fiber types are never used in isolation...if you're training to failure, I'm wondering if it doesn't matter at all what rep range you are using or your time under tension-that they are all used anyway...but that would mean that 1 rep maxes would be all you ever needed, which doesn't make sense either. I'm sure the answer is somewhere inbetween.
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watching you two argue about who should post their pictures is pretty damn amusing, i must admit.
But don't you agree that a person that has made a habit of questioning others and demanding them to post their picture should post one of himself?
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But don't you agree that a person that has made a habit of questioning others and demanding them to post their picture should post one of himself?
110%, o super. especially one that claims to have won bodybuilding competitions and regularly claims to put younger posters to "shame" with his physique. otherwise we're left wondering what he's doing acting like such an expert.
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But don't you agree that a person that has made a habit of questioning others and demanding them to post their picture should post one of himself?
(cough)Quakeroats(cough)
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hell yeah the pump is important.
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Based on the way my body reacts, I always feel some "fullness" in the muscle(s) I've worked, but not always what I would consider a true pump. I'm one of those people who are often flat or feel flat in my muscles, while other times I'm walking around truly pumped from nothing. With that in mind, I'd personally say that the pump is not critical to having a great workout, it's just as much a side effect of what's going on in your body at the time as it is the training. In other words, depending upon what's going on in your body, it really won't matter what you do training wise, as you simply won't get a great pump regardless. That of course doesn't mean that the muscle has not been broken down from training though and won't grow. So, I think they're likely two separate things, though of course getting a good pump is always preferred over not getting one.
I think Arnold said once that he could get pumped from swimming, but swimming wasn't going to build his muscles, so you can't go by the pump. There's probably something to that idea.
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hell yeah the pump is important.
Hmm...
I remember the days when you would post detailed replies backed by lots of research and quotes from the latest medical journals, abstracts, and sports medicine textbooks...
;D
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It's only fair that if you requests pictures of others that you post one of yourself, don't you think? I've seen you mock others physiques hundreds of times and ask for people to post their pictures, yet you never post one of yourself, why is that?
so do you, so were do you get off breaking his balls...
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so do you, so were do you get off breaking his balls...
No thats just it, I don't make a habit of asking for others pictures or criticizing their physiques or claim I'm a bodybuilding champ etc etc
I might point out that a certain user might have a giant forehead, but thats not bodybuilding related ! :D
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No thats just it, I don't make a habit of asking for others pictures or criticizing their physiques or claim I'm a bodybuilding champ etc etc
I might point out that a certain user might have a giant forehead, but thats not bodybuilding related ! :D
Ok bluto whatever gets you through the night
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Say no to the pump - same as with drugs :D
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Hmm...
I remember the days when you would post detailed replies backed by lots of research and quotes from the latest medical journals, abstracts, and sports medicine textbooks...
;D
and now im gonna post a link to a book made by muscletech to promote their supplements
http://www.getbig.com/books/getthepump.htm
:D
no but seriously i find that the pump is essential for growth
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"The pump is just extra blood flow to the muscle. Just because you pump it, it doesn't mean you are going to create any growth. I can increase blood flow to the area with a 20-pound dumbbell but it's not going to make me grow." - Dorian Yates
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i always get a pump, no matter the rep range.
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if i don't get a pump,or don't get sore from my workout I wasted my time.
Big L dawg
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if i don't get a pump,or don't get sore from my workout I wasted my time.
Big L dawg
I can never remember not getting a pump, even when i used "heavy weight" for lower reps. I don't agree on the soreness. Psychologically, i prefer to be sore but i don't think it's neccesary for growth. My shoulders, biceps never get sore and they are my best bodyparts, while my chest and legs always get sore and they aren't as great.
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No. A pump is just the temporary accumulation of blood in a local area and it does not effect the assimilation of proteins.
Growth stimulation is like a light switch--you either turn the growth switch on or you don't. Your goal should be a maximum point of intensity.
The pump is an illusion of growth that will cause those same high-volume kids who looked the same last year to look the same next year.
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No. A pump is just the temporary accumulation of blood in a local area and it does not effect the assimilation of proteins.
Growth stimulation is like a light switch--you either turn the growth switch on or you don't. Your goal should be a maximum point of intensity.
The pump is an illusion of growth that will cause those same high-volume kids who looked the same last year to look the same next year.
every time I use maximum intensity I get a pump so I don't follow
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no pump = no growth but pump doesn't necessarily mean growth.
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every time I use maximum intensity I get a pump so I don't follow
The pump is just a side effect of the intense training, not the thing that actually makes you grow.
The intensity is the actual growth stimulator, not the pump. ;)
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The pump is just a side effect of the intense training, not the thing that actually makes you grow.
The intensity is the actual growth stimulator, not the pump. ;)
I disagree. If there is no pump, the right stimulation is not happening.
diet and carb intake affects the level of pump but pump whatsoever will no cause hypertrophy/hyperplasia.
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I disagree. If there is no pump, the right stimulation is not happening.
diet and carb intake affects the level of pump but pump whatsoever will no cause hypertrophy/hyperplasia.
That's what those kids that look the same way year after year after year think. They pump up, pump up, and pump up but are the exact same size when the pump's gone. That's why it's an illusion that makes you think you're growing. You think you look bigger than last time when you see yourself pumped but the truth is you're only impressed because you're bigger than you were a couple hours ago. Long term, the pump doesn't mean shit.
Bringing up your poundages in the big compound lifts does mean shit, and bringing up those poundages means stimulating muscles to be capable of exerting more intensity. THAT means growth.
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That's what those kids that look the same way year after year after year think. They pump up, pump up, and pump up but are the exact same size when the pump's gone. That's why it's an illusion that makes you think you're growing. You think you look bigger than last time when you see yourself pumped but the truth is you're only impressed because you're bigger than you were a couple hours ago. Long term, the pump doesn't mean shit.
Bringing up your poundages in the big compound lifts does mean shit, and bringing up those poundages means stimulating muscles to be capable of exerting more intensity. THAT means growth.
gotta say bullshit on that one.I know fat fucks that lift serious weight....I also know a couple skinny twits that look like they never seen a gym that lift serious weight as well...when I get a pump I know I'm targeting the right muscle for that particular workout.
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Bringing up your poundages in the big compound lifts does mean shit, and bringing up those poundages means stimulating muscles to be capable of exerting more intensity. THAT means growth.
I don't deny that. But if you don't get a pump doing it, you ain't growing.
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gotta say bullshit on that one.I know fat fucks that lift serious weight....I also know a couple skinny twits that look like they never seen a gym that lift serious weight as well...when I get a pump I know I'm targeting the right muscle for that particular workout.
::) Have you heard of a thing called "genetics?"
Different people respond to lifting weights differently. Believe it or not, some will never gain much size no matter what they do, including drugs or strength gains. The people that will get size with any type of lifting will get the most overall size from increasing their poundages in the big lifts.
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::) Have you heard of a thing called "genetics?"
Different people respond to lifting weights differently. Believe it or not, some will never gain much size no matter what they do, including drugs or strength gains. The people that will get size with any type of lifting will get the most overall size from increasing their poundages in the big lifts.
you just gave a rebutall to your own argument.don't know if your smart enough to figure it out though..
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A good pump can be a positive by-product of a exercise, but there is no guarantee that increased muscle size will follow. Positive in that it can make you feel you have accomplished something when the muscles become gorged with blood and temporarily larger. But that can fall in the class of a false positive. Standing in front of a mirror and giving the front double bicep pose after endless sets of arm work is, like the mirror it's self, just an illusion.
It is a natural progress to bring the nourishment's in the blood to the working area. When the blood fills a muscle area to capacity, with a good pump, than there is no more room for any more blood to enter the area. Any more sets, to increase a pump to the muscles, is just a waste of training time.
iIf you can get a very good pump with 3-4 sets max (which you should), there is no reason to do 10 to 15 more sets for that muscle area. It is like putting a empty glass under a faucet and running water. You will only get so much water into that glass, the rest will spill over and be wasted.
I am not against the pump, just that it is a part of the whole when the goal is to build muscle size and even strength. It's place of importance should be put into perspective when training. The goal for most anyone is not just to go for the pump it's self in a workout. Good Luck.
Side Bar: Some of my more productive workouts have been with GVT for a 6 to 8 week training cycle. A very good pump is produced, though no the main reason for this type of cycle. Timing of a light pump through out a given training day can also produce muscle size increases for some. Something like the all day, once an hour light, pumping session for some. Seems to work well with arms, delt's and calf's.
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The pump is just a side effect of the intense training, not the thing that actually makes you grow.
The intensity is the actual growth stimulator, not the pump. ;)
That's your interpretation on whether it's a source or biproduct, no one knows. I say that in the absence of certainty it's smart to assume it's vital.
when I get a pump I know I'm targeting the right muscle for that particular workout.
Yup, again smarter, because it's clear confirmation as to what's being hit.
Besides which it's huge psychologically.
Sum all those factors up it's smart to get it each and every time.
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That's why it's an illusion that makes you think you're growing. You think you look bigger than last time when you see yourself pumped but the truth is you're only impressed because you're bigger than you were a couple hours ago. Long term, the pump doesn't mean shit.
You're assuming that everyone thinks this way when there's no proof of this. The pump seems to be one of several critical factors, there's no way to separate those factors from one another thus it's smarter to include all of them.
Bringing up your poundages in the big compound lifts does mean shit, and bringing up those poundages means stimulating muscles to be capable of exerting more intensity. THAT means growth.
Not just about compounds either, that's one of those fallacies that are propogated. Getting stronger on any effective lift, even "finishing" exercises, will induce growth.
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Why would you need a pump to confirm that a muscle is being hit? If I'm training say calves I don't need no pump to tell me I'm training calves, I kinda figured that out ::)
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Why would you need a pump to confirm that a muscle is being hit? If I'm training say calves I don't need no pump to tell me I'm training calves, I kinda figured that out ::)
You are a brilliant young woman but missing the point;
the pump is the indicator the enough volume and intensity has been reached. Plain and simple.
"It's like cuming."
~King Schwarzenegger.
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You are a brilliant young woman but missing the point;
the pump is the indicator the enough volume and intensity has been reached. Plain and simple.
"It's like cuming."
~King Schwarzenegger.
That's interesting, would you say using a product that gives you more pump would make you quit too early and call it the day and cheating you off gains? How do you measure the maximum of the pump to know when it's enough?
I guess you dont count reps, sets or even poundages then, you just go by feel of the pump. Maybe you even stop in a middle of a set when the "feel" of a "pump" tells you - no more, "enough volume and intensity has been reached!"
Fascinating.
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That's interesting, would you say using a product that gives you more pump would make you quit too early and call it the day and cheating you off gains? How do you measure the maximum of the pump to know when it's enough?
I guess you dont count reps, sets or even poundages then, you just go by feel of the pump. Maybe you even stop in a middle of a set when the "feel" of a "pump" tells you - no more, "enough volume and intensity has been reached!"
Fascinating.
You sir are a pragmatic moron who obviously does not lift weights. I'm now convinced that your are a kid.
How to grow muscle (A23 101):
1- All sets, no matter what the rep range, ought to be to failure.
2- Every Tool knows that a rep range of 8-12 is optimal for hypertrophy. slap the poundages accordingly.
3- As the result of all this, pump ought to be achieve. If not, intensity or failure ought to be revisited.
4- Diet will affect your pump to a certain degree but no pump = no growth.
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1- All sets, no matter what the rep range, ought to be to failure.
Going to failure on all sets is a good strategy to fry your CNS. Hardly anyone in the sport of bodybuilding take all sets to failure.
2- Every Tool knows that a rep range of 8-12 is optimal for hypertrophy. slap the poundages accordingly.
And yet there's numerous people that have great success with lower reps like 5x5 or people like Milos with higher reps. And let's not forget the importance of sets, not just reps when it comes to hypertrophy.
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When I mean failure, is you can't complete sucessfully another rep.. not kill yourself trying to..
if you don't go to my definition of failure, how do you know you're in the right rep range for the weight and not wasting your time?
.... THE PUMP BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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When I mean failure, is you can't complete sucessfully another rep.. not kill yourself trying to..
if you don't go to my definition of failure, how do you know you're in the right rep range for the weight and not wasting your time?
.... THE PUMP BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That definition will work, and my answer is still the same - its not productive to go to failure all the time in every set, hardly anyone i know of or heard of ever does, i'd say it makes a whole lot more sense to go to failure far less enabling you to be able to train more frequent.
There's a whole lot of big guys out there that put on a lot of muscle without chasing the pump or going to failure for that matter - powerlifters, strong men etc but according to your logic theyre doing it wrong and wont put on any muscle...
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That definition will work, and my answer is still the same - its not productive to go to failure all the time in every set, hardly anyone i know of or heard of ever does, i'd say it makes a whole lot more sense to go to failure far less enabling you to be able to train more frequent.
There's a whole lot of big guys out there that put on a lot of muscle without chasing the pump or going to failure for that matter - powerlifters, strong men etc but according to your logic theyre doing it wrong and wont put on any muscle...
I'm not advocating "chasing" the pump at all cost... unless you're about to step onstage which you can attain with a rubber band...
I'm saying that the rep range MUST provide some level of pump to be declared the ideal rep range for hypertrophy.
yes, some will grow on 4-6 rep ranges, but not as much and not consistently.
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you just gave a rebutall to your own argument.don't know if your smart enough to figure it out though..
No, I didn't. Both genetics and growth stimulation (point of intensity) have a bearing on muscle growth. ::)
Is it that complicated, that two things influence one other thing at the same time?
It's like the nature vs. nurture debate. Anyone who takes a side is an idiot, because both are obviously at play at the same time. In other words, you're born with certain qualities and traits that will make you TEND to be certain ways and do certain things. BUT, you'll also be influenced by what you experience in life itself.
See, each separate individual is born with a unique tendency to gain size, relative to strength gains. Some will get a lot of size even when they gain just a little strength yet some will gain practically no size despite great strength gains. This is GENETICS (nurture) because each individual is unique by nature, with a unique strength-to-size ratio. BUT, in order for an individual to gain at all, delving into new points of INTENSITY, introducing the muscles to intensity they have never experienced, is necessary. This will hit that growth "switch," stimulating them to adapt into a form that will make them capable of exerting even more intensity than their previous form allowed.
The result is growth.
Is it really too complicated to understand 1) genetics and 2) intensity as separate yet interacting things? ::)
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Soundness: what if the intensity is pretty much the same week after week?
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If going by the pump as a gauge, there is no clear confirmation that a certain muscle is being hit hard. Can do sissy stuff like 20-25 reps with a pair of 20 pounder's for benches and have the chest blow up like a balloon. Does not mean that any lasting size will develop. You can also do lateral raises and get a pump in the traps and neck area. But they are not getting prime work at all. But are getting a pump from their supporting efforts. Or BB curls and have the pec's and lats get a slight pump.
I. All reps should avoid the point of failure with-in the 1 to 2 rep's, no matter what the rep range intended. There are two degrees of major muscle failure. Momentary and complete. Avoid each by all means. Most power and Olympic lifters do in regular training sessions. Only testing their lifting max every 3 to 4 week is when failure is approached or met. This also included BB'ing.
2. A rep range from 3 to 20 can build muscle mass and strength. 3 reps will do for you what 20 can not and vice versa. So many guy make little or no progress, with years of training, because they will stick to the written in stone accepted 8 to 12 range for hypertrophy. If just switching to a lower 5 rep per set, or even 15-20 rep per set, may offer dramatic improvement in size and strength. And in a somewhat short period.
3. Tell the huge and thick PL'ers and Olympic lifters that they need to achieve a superior pump before any muscle mass can be gained. Or that their intensity may not be good enough for pure size without the pump. Tell that also to the power BB'ers ( me included) who rather enjoy lifting heavy with-in the lower rep range.
4. Diet will affect the pump. And how long that pump will remain after a training session. Complex carb-protein feeding throughout the day work very well in this regard. Good reason for shakes between regular meals. Good Luck.
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That definition will work, and my answer is still the same - its not productive to go to failure all the time in every set, hardly anyone i know of or heard of ever does,
That only covers part of it, one extreme. The truth is that one should go to failure at least some of the time each workout, otherwise it's essentially going through the motions of what can already be done. Nothing to do with CNS burnout in that case. The sets that aren't taken to failure, for example pyramiding sets up or down, are just part of warmups.
Also, different people can handle higher levels of training to failure without problem. Anyone can do it part of the time though, and should or they're kidding themselves, treading water.
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in order for an individual to gain at all, delving into new points of INTENSITY, introducing the muscles to intensity they have never experienced, is necessary. This will hit that growth "switch," stimulating them to adapt into a form that will make them capable of exerting even more intensity than their previous form allowed.
The result is growth.
Ya, it's actually simple. Going to failure is required, otherwise one essentially maintains status quo. It's no different from challenging oneself mentally, must reach for more than one's able to currently do.
Tell the huge and thick PL'ers and Olympic lifters that they need to achieve a superior pump before any muscle mass can be gained. Or that their intensity may not be good enough for pure size without the pump. Tell that also to the power BB'ers ( me included) who rather enjoy lifting heavy with-in the lower rep range.
Actually, some of them do get pumps during training, even though it's not a goal. Further, i can assure you that a strong guy like Mariusz with superior development to most of his peers not only gets pumps he also includes other elemets of BB non-compound/non-powerlifting training to induce growth-not an accident.
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Ya, it's actually simple. Going to failure is required, otherwise one stays more or less at status quo.
You sure?
How about someone adding more weight to the bar over time, maybe even down to fractional plates? Or someone changing reps? Changing sets? How about shortening the rest period between sets? Or performing a lift slower?
Looks to me there's quite a few things one can do, without failure being required and without staying at status quo.
Actually, some of them do get pumps during training, even though it's not a goal. Further, i can assure you that a strong guy like Mariusz with superior development to most of his peers not only gets pumps he also includes other elemets of BB training to induce growth.
Yes SOME do, but if it would be a REQUIREMENT they ALL would have to. Since this isnt the case, that SOME do is pointless.
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You sure?
How about someone adding more weight to the bar over time, maybe even down to fractional plates? Or someone changing reps? Changing sets? How about shortening the rest period between sets? Or performing a lift slower?
Looks to me there's quite a few things one can do, without failure being required and without staying at status quo.
All of those things-adding weight, changing reps, changing sets-eventually requires greater intensity in order to improve over today's performance. Even if the change is incremental, at some point the wall's hit, it requires extraordinary effort to rise above it, it ain't happenin by chance.
Could it be achieved without increasing intensity-some growth might still happen but that's not opitmal since the muscle's not been fully challenged.
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I don't care for all the typing tbh....
All I know is, I lift heavyweights, as many reps as I can until I can't push anymore, get a penis like veiny pump and grow like a mushroom. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff301/torquer23/0xf566bb.jpg)
On the other hand, no pump, I don't grow...
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I don't deny that. But if you don't get a pump doing it, you ain't growing.
i agree with you 100% on this issue :o :D
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You sir are a pragmatic moron who obviously does not lift weights. I'm now convinced that your are a kid.
How to grow muscle (A23 101):
1- All sets, no matter what the rep range, ought to be to failure.
2- Every Tool knows that a rep range of 8-12 is optimal for hypertrophy. slap the poundages accordingly.
3- As the result of all this, pump ought to be achieve. If not, intensity or failure ought to be revisited.
4- Diet will affect your pump to a certain degree but no pump = no growth.
cool ! again, im agreeing with you ! ...damnit :'( ;D
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You sir are a pragmatic moron who obviously does not lift weights. I'm now convinced that your are a kid.
How to grow muscle (A23 101):
1- All sets, no matter what the rep range, ought to be to failure.
2- Every Tool knows that a rep range of 8-12 is optimal for hypertrophy. slap the poundages accordingly.
3- As the result of all this, pump ought to be achieve. If not, intensity or failure ought to be revisited.
4- Diet will affect your pump to a certain degree but no pump = no growth.
Actually, I agree with you here Alex. I do think you should mention compound movements, however.
Are you saying that if you train intensely enough, it will cause a pump, that if you don't get a pump it means you're not training intensely enough to stimulate growth?
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all sets to failure, unless you're on gear or working with super low volume, will lead to CNS burnout. plain and simple. that's a horrifically stupid way to train.
no pump = no growth: also stupid. the muscles that have grown the best on me have been the ones i get little to no pump in. my triceps blew up doing heavy board presses and close-grip benches, none of which resulted in a "pump". meanwhile i do all the 8-12 reps on curls and "squeeze" and shit like that until they feel all "swole" and so far they still suck.
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Actually, I agree with you here Alex. I do think you should mention compound movements, however.
Are you saying that if you train intensely enough, it will cause a pump, that if you don't get a pump it means you're not training intensely enough to stimulate growth?
even iof you train super low volume ala mike mentzer ie = one set to failure only... if you train correctly 9the mike metzre way).. land you really truly hit that mike mentzer type of failure 9 keep repping like there is a gun to your head and the trigger gets pulled if you stop).. youll get a massive pump even from one set.
more volume,. less intensity= pump.. less volume, more intansity = pump... you get a pump regardless if your training right to p[rovide ampole growth stimulation..
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even iof you train super low volume ala mike mentzer ie = one set to failure only... if you train correctly 9the mike metzre way).. land you really truly hit that mike mentzer type of failure 9 keep repping like there is a gun to your head and the trigger gets pulled if you stop).. youll get a massive pump even from one set.
more volume,. less intensity= pump.. less volume, more intansity = pump... you get a pump regardless if your training right to p[rovide ampole growth stimulation..
That's what I'm thinking Alex meant.
BTW, that part about "keep repping like there is a gun to your head and the trigger gets pulled if you stop," THAT is what will make you grow.
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that's the kinda BS that FLEX magazine hocks to kids so they'll buy more magazines.
if i make you bench 135 50 times you'll get a crazy pump. if i make you hop on a stairmaster and do 5 minutes at a stupid high setting you'll get a crazy pump. just because there is or isn't blood in the muscle doesn't mean you're doing anything useful. that's not how growth happens. it's a pleasant side effect often times, make you feel like you did something and feels cool as hell, but it's by NO means a requirement.
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that's the kinda BS that FLEX magazine hocks to kids so they'll buy more magazines.
if i make you bench 135 50 times you'll get a crazy pump. if i make you hop on a stairmaster and do 5 minutes at a stupid high setting you'll get a crazy pump. just because there is or isn't blood in the muscle doesn't mean you're doing anything useful. that's not how growth happens. it's a pleasant side effect often times, make you feel like you did something and feels cool as hell, but it's by NO means a requirement.
For the last time, using a silly extreme example doesn't prove anything.
Pump's part of the recipe, several factors are intertwined like it or not. Wanna be smart, cover all the bases by satisfying all the important ingredients including pump, training to failure some of the time, etc.
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For the last time, using a silly extreme example doesn't prove anything.
it's not an extreme example, per se. it's just showing that the mere fact of getting a pump isn't an indicator that you're inducing growth. if you get a pump from what you're doing and you happen to be growing from that training protocol, cool. keep it up and enjoy every pump you get.
my calves and biceps used to get pumps so big it hurt, but both muscles absolutely suck on me. meanwhile i've never had a trap pump or a very intense chest pump in my life and those muscles are better developed than the rest. my triceps used to get CRAZY pumps from my workouts and they stayed small. after heavy work in the 3-5 rep range they blew up.
that's ME, and it's not YOU, but as they say it's the exception that proves the rule, yah?
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my calves and biceps used to get pumps so big it hurt, but both muscles absolutely suck on me. meanwhile i've never had a trap pump or a very intense chest pump in my life and those muscles are better developed than the rest. my triceps used to get CRAZY pumps from my workouts and they stayed small. after heavy work in the 3-5 rep range they blew up.
that's ME, and it's not YOU, but as they say it's the exception that proves the rule, yah?
The fact you tried different training methods with different areas of the body means that you really can't draw conclusions, it's a strange way to train pumping only certain areas. To pump only certain areas and not others makes no sense and doesn't allow any basis to compare results.
Genetics was the biggest determinant of your size limits i'd say, not the pumping, You're confusing one with the other.
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The fact you tried different training methods with different areas of the body means that you really can't draw conclusions, it's a strange way to train pumping only certain areas. To pump only certain areas and not others makes no sense and doesn't allow any basis to compare results.
i'll make this fast.
1) i trained all areas the same. some got a pump, some didn't. the only way to get a pump in my traps was to do a giant drop set on DB shrugs. my triceps, on the other hand, get a decent pump doing a set of 12 on anything.
2) the areas that DID get a pump grew more slowly than areas that DIDN'T. this indicates to me that the pump was either counterproductive or completely irrelevant. however, as you said, it may have just been genetics. if this is the case, then changing my training protocol should not make a difference.
3) surprisingly, when i STOPPED training for pumps, my formerly lagging body parts grew. i was training wicked pumps into my triceps and legs, but they did not start growing until i aimed for strength training. the same is true of my traps (which grew more from heavy deadlifts than drop-sets on shrugs) and my chest.
4) in the end, not only did i grow the best in parts that i couldn't get much of a pump in, but when i stopped putting a pump into the areas that got GREAT pumps, they began to improve.
fair enough? did i miss anything?
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and now im gonna post a link to a book made by muscletech to promote their supplements
Thanks, but don't bother.
I already have December's FLEX.
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Thanks, but don't bother.
I already have December's FLEX.
lmao
acvtually they sent me that book in the mail about 3 years ago
i never read it untill about 3 or 4 months ago.. theres alot of bullshit about muscletech supplements in there.... but theres is also a ton of great information regarding biological reasons behind why the pump is so important for hypertrophy..and its all backed by science.. mine was sent to me for free maybe you could get one too..im not sure how i got it though lol
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Really I always felt there's very little on pump as far as science, studies go etc
Very convinient of muscletech to put some positive press out for pump along with the pump supplements
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think back to when you made your biggest gains. i bet it was in the first year or two lifting, right? now think back when you had your biggest strength gains. i bet it was in your first year or two lifting, right?
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think back to when you made your biggest gains. i bet it was in the first year or two lifting, right? now think back when you had your biggest strength gains. i bet it was in your first year or two lifting, right?
not for me. :D
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Really I always felt there's very little on pump as far as science, studies go etc
Very convinient of muscletech to put some positive press out for pump along with the pump supplements
no theres alot of science behind why the pump kickstarts hypertrophy into overdrive
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i'll make this fast.
1) i trained all areas the same. some got a pump, some didn't. the only way to get a pump in my traps was to do a giant drop set on DB shrugs. my triceps, on the other hand, get a decent pump doing a set of 12 on anything.
2) the areas that DID get a pump grew more slowly than areas that DIDN'T. this indicates to me that the pump was either counterproductive or completely irrelevant. however, as you said, it may have just been genetics. if this is the case, then changing my training protocol should not make a difference.
3) surprisingly, when i STOPPED training for pumps, my formerly lagging body parts grew. i was training wicked pumps into my triceps and legs, but they did not start growing until i aimed for strength training. the same is true of my traps (which grew more from heavy deadlifts than drop-sets on shrugs) and my chest.
4) in the end, not only did i grow the best in parts that i couldn't get much of a pump in, but when i stopped putting a pump into the areas that got GREAT pumps, they began to improve.
fair enough? did i miss anything?
Brilliance.
The pump is no more than the temporary accumulation of blood in local areas, is just occasionally a side effect of training, not an indication of effective training itself, and is unnecessary for growth.
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no theres alot of science behind why the pump kickstarts hypertrophy into overdrive
cool, feel free to post links to them id like to read about it
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no theres alot of science behind why the pump kickstarts hypertrophy into overdrive
Here is the false assumption the people who make such claims reiterate:
THE PUMP INCREASES THE ASSIMILATION OF MUSCLE-BUILDING COMPONENTS
FALSE. By the way, it is not "science," it is purely and simply "bullshit."
And the authors are attempting to promote the sales of products that supposedly promote the "pump." ::)
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Here is the false assumption the people who make such claims reiterate:
THE PUMP INCREASES THE ASSIMILATION OF MUSCLE-BUILDING COMPONENTS
FALSE. By the way, it is not "science," it is purely and simply "bullshit."
And the authors are attempting to promote the sales of products that supposedly promote the "pump." ::)
well heres a few facts
increased blood flow to th muscle increases the amount of nutrients in the muscle.
increased blood flow to the muscle increases the amount of hormones in the muscle.
increased blood flow to the muscle speeds waste removal in the muscle.
theres millions more
increased blood flow causes sarcoplasmic hypertrophy which tells the muscle its okay to grow.
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Can you be "overtrained" going to failure if your lifts continue to go up or in all probability they should decrease if you are correct?
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Can you be "overtrained" going to failure if your lifts continue to go up or in all probability they should decrease if you are correct?
If you're not making optimal progress, you are overtraining. You don't have to experience a decrease in strength in order to be overtraining. Overtraining simply means "training too frequently and/or with too much volume." If your intensity is high enough to stimulate growth, yet you're not progressing at an absolute maximum rate, you're overtraining to some degree, even if you're progressing a little.
In other words, it's actually impossible to tell whether or not you're overtraining unless your strength is actually decreasing. Who knows, you may go lift and gain 5 lbs. on each lift. BUT, maybe you could have added 10 lbs to each lift and gotten a couple extra couple reps on top of that with a bit less volume and another rest day. It's guesswork based on expectations, but what you can do just keep striving for what you consider to be optimal progress for you. Just don't do too much work during your workout or train too often. That will cause overtraining.
But yeah, if intensity is high enough to stimulate growth, yet you're not making optimal progress, you are overtraining to some degree because your training is not optimal. ;)
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there's no legit studies on the positive effects on pump, just a load of crap by muscle-tech involving women, rats etc
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there's no legit studies on the positive effects on pump, just a load of crap by muscle-tech involving women, rats etc
Stating the obvious while only addressing half the truth. In reality there are no legit studies either way. Which is why my logic is smarter, which is to cover all bases given the strong possibility that it's an essential part of the equation. Smart people cover all bases when there are no downsides to doing so, combined with strong potential upsides.
That's in addition to the unassailable proof that it's a huge benefit psychologically.
Add those up, it's a no-brainer.
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Stating the obvious while only addressing half the truth. In reality there are no legit studies either way. Which is why my logic is smarter, which is to cover all bases given the strong possibility that it's an essential part of the equation. Smart people cover all bases when there are no downsides to doing so, combined with strong potential upsides.
That's in addition to the unassailable proof that it's a huge benefit psychologically.
Add those up, it's a no-brainer.
Yeah covering all bases is a good thing.
What does your training program look like Pumpster? Still using a Bowflex? Still thinking a push up is as good as a bench press?