Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: madfox on December 01, 2008, 04:49:44 PM
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Does anyone have any good curl routines for increasing curl strength? Right now I'm trying to do 3 sets of 8. It seems like 5x5 would be too much for the bicep to handle. I'm really not worried about size, just strength.
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i would like to see the results on a 5x5 for biceps
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Does anyone have any good curl routines for increasing curl strength? Right now I'm trying to do 3 sets of 8. It seems like 5x5 would be too much for the bicep to handle. I'm really not worried about size, just strength.
I'm sure 3x8 is fine, if youre struggling with it might wanna lower the weight to a weight you can complete then add very small plates to the bar and work yourself up to bigger poundages over time... or you could experiment with for example slower negatives than normal.
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Thanks for the info Bluto. I think I remember reading on a thread somewhere around here that you curl 100lb dbs, is that true, or did i just make that up?
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I'f you're looking to increase strength, lift heavier. What's the problem? Sometimes I go as low as 4-5 reps if I want to lift heavy.
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Thanks for the info Bluto. I think I remember reading on a thread somewhere around here that you curl 100lb dbs, is that true, or did i just make that up?
Not me but I pointed out that MOS (Man of Steel) claim he does, mortals like me can only dream of poundages like that
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Does anyone have any good curl routines for increasing curl strength? Right now I'm trying to do 3 sets of 8. It seems like 5x5 would be too much for the bicep to handle. I'm really not worried about size, just strength.
take a weight you can normally get 10 reps with.
after warmup do 3 sets of 6 reps bicep curls.
the next workout do 2 sets of 6 and 1 set of 7.
the next workout do 1 set of 6, 2 sets of 7.
the next workout do 3 sets of 7.
then 2 sets of 7, and 1 set of 8, etc etc
untill you reach 3 sets of 8, then increase the poundage by 5lbs and start back at 3 sets of 6.
it works great, it managed volume very well, and allows you to keep getting stronger, while avoiding burnout.
its not as dramatic as raising weight every workout, but it allows you to progress much longer before stalling.
you should give it a try.
oh you can use this technique for every excercise too.
good luck.
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Does anyone have any good curl routines for increasing curl strength? Right now I'm trying to do 3 sets of 8. It seems like 5x5 would be too much for the bicep to handle. I'm really not worried about size, just strength.
It's not too much to handle. The key is using a heavy enough weight that you can get five reps with good form.
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I was thinking 5x5 for curls would put a huge strain on them, but I guess it's not that bad if your only really pushing it to get that last set out. Thanks for the info panda, I'll have to try that if this 5x5 routine doesn't work.
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I was thinking 5x5 for curls would put a huge strain on them, but I guess it's not that bad if your only really pushing it to get that last set out. Thanks for the info panda, I'll have to try that if this 5x5 routine doesn't work.
if you are going to try the 5x5, i would start a little lighter than your true 5 rep max. maybe your 8-10 rep max.
don't worry about the lighter weight at the start, with the 5x5 your strength will shoot up very very quickly.
but the lighter weight will allow you to use good form, and keep the tension in the bicep, rather than strain a little and use the tendons.
i have had trouble with this in the past, where i can do 5 reps no problem, but i never realy felt it in the bicep as i was curling, even when i slowed the curl down.
when i started with the lighter weight, you get into a groove much easier, and get a better mind/muscle connection, which stays while you increase the weights.
good luck.
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if you are going to try the 5x5, i would start a little lighter than your true 5 rep max. maybe your 8-10 rep max.
don't worry about the lighter weight at the start, with the 5x5 your strength will shoot up very very quickly.
but the lighter weight will allow you to use good form, and keep the tension in the bicep, rather than strain a little and use the tendons.
i have had trouble with this in the past, where i can do 5 reps no problem, but i never realy felt it in the bicep as i was curling, even when i slowed the curl down.
when i started with the lighter weight, you get into a groove much easier, and get a better mind/muscle connection, which stays while you increase the weights.
good luck.
Agreed.
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FP gives a great program. Wonder if that is based on the old Doug Hepburn method? 5X5's are also a very good program, if strength is the only concern. Lot's of guy's will use the same weight on the bar for all 5 sets (25 total reps). Depends on what may suit each of us. As with FP's program and 5X5's, going to failure on any set is avoided. Specially with a small muscle group like the biceps.
For strength concerns, you will want to increase the tendon strength, along with the muscle strength. They go together. Can not have one without the other if max strength and development is concerned.
Reverse BB curls are a good exercise to increase the all around bicep power and size. And help greatly with the regular curling strength.
Partial BB curls in a power rack is an excellent way to improve bicep strength rather quickly. Setting the pins so the bar will only go half way up (or less) from the bottom position. And than setting the bar half way up so you curl the weight all the way up. Different versions of this method also. Good Luck.
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FP gives a great program. Wonder if that is based on the old Doug Hepburn method? 5X5's are also a very good program, if strength is the only concern. Lot's of guy's will use the same weight on the bar for all 5 sets (25 total reps). Depends on what may suit each of us. As with FP's program and 5X5's, going to failure on any set is avoided. Specially with a small muscle group like the biceps.
For strength concerns, you will want to increase the tendon strength, along with the muscle strength. They go together. Can not have one without the other if max strength and development is concerned.
Reverse BB curls are a good exercise to increase the all around bicep power and size. And help greatly with the regular curling strength.
Partial BB curls in a power rack is an excellent way to improve bicep strength rather quickly. Setting the pins so the bar will only go half way up (or less) from the bottom position. And than setting the bar half way up so you curl the weight all the way up. Different versions of this method also. Good Luck.
yip thats exactly what it is 8).
science backs the lower reps and heavier weights, so i liked the simplicity of it and the fact that during my old routine i was finding it difficult mentally and physically to increase weights every workout. i kept buring out, stalling, getting nigling injuries etc. so i knew i needed more time at a specific weight, before increasing it for full effect.
this program allows me to increase total work every workout ( even though its only 1 rep on each excercise).
the volume is just right. i look forward to each workout, rather than dread it, i have never failed to increase any excercise by 1 rep. well i did after the first few weeks because i started too heavy. once i reduced the weight, i have been flying.
been doing it ever since 8)
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Easier sets always helps progression in strength, no need to go to failure.
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jpm101 :
"As with FP's program and 5X5's, going to failure on any set is avoided. Specially with a small muscle group like the biceps."
Why is this? Just risk of tearing the muscle?
Do many people here use 21s?
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jpm101 :
"As with FP's program and 5X5's, going to failure on any set is avoided. Specially with a small muscle group like the biceps."
Why is this? Just risk of tearing the muscle?
Do many people here use 21s?
21's are gay - I see little fags in my gym doing that with their monstrous 13inch guns.
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21's are gay - I see little fags in my gym doing that with their monstrous 13inch guns.
hey now J i do 21's from time to time....Ronnie Coleman does them also in one of his videos with about 120lbs.
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One of the most important elements for healing and advancement of a muscle , after a workout, is proper recovery time. This all in regard to the important CNS. Much harder for that recovery time when the CNS has way too much demand/stress on to from going to the point of failure over and over again every workout. Can equal to slow or no progress at all in the long run for any muscle group.
21's are an excellent way to increase arm size over a short period. Also can hit the delts very well. Maybe BIG J should not have joined that gym with all those little fags around him. Or was it just for the gym shower room time he may get with them? Good Luck.
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21's sounds like a good idea for size, but this thread is about strength. Personally I'm addicted to training my biceps, I'm way more worried about their strength then size. I know the size will come as I get stronger. I usually have an arms day where I superset bi's with tri's, on monday then i'll do a set of hammer curls at the end of my cardio workout on wednesday, then i'll usually finish up my chest workout(depending on how i'm feeling) with a set of hammer curls on Friday. I used to try to do atleast 1 set of 10 hammer curls a day with this 50lb dumbell I have, but I can do like 20 in a row now, so I'll be getting something heavier soon. Anyways, I was thinking about trying 5x5's and micro loading the ez bar with 2.5 pounds instead of 5 pounds a week, because I don't know if my biceps could handle that much of an increase every week.
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Anyways, I was thinking about trying 5x5's and micro loading the ez bar with 2.5 pounds instead of 5 pounds a week, because I don't know if my biceps could handle that much of an increase every week.
that would be a good idea 8)
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sorry to take this off-topic guys:
jpm101 -
you seem knowledgable on the subject off recovery. Do you have any info or links explaining how the CNS factors into it? I mean, I can tell when the muscle tissue has recovered (more or less) but have no idea how to gauge the state of my CNS. Hell, I dont even know what the nervous system does in relation to muscle tearing / regeneration.
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Let this be a day of discovery for A Peak and have him do a search on the importance of the CNS and the relationship to progressive muscle and strength growth. Lot's of information out there. Might start with 'CNS Exercise' as a search word(s). Or something like 'Exercise sports theory CNS'. etc, etc, etc,.
General rule of thumb for an over taxed CNS is making little or nor progress in either size of strength after so many weeks of training (or years for some). And in some cases, actually lossing muscle size and strength. Feeling tired or just not in the mood for working out all the time. Hard to sleep at times. Putting undo stress on the recovery abilities by too many exercises, too many sets and attempting to go to failure every workout.
Recovery time is an individual thing. Thought between 48 to 72 hours is the generaly norm. Some may require a week or even more. All depending on the abuse on the CNS/body during any one workout. And your bodys genetic abilities for recovery The prime influence on recovery abilites is that genetic thing for all of us.
Drugs can boost this recovery and repair cycle between exercise bouts quite well for most. But for a lot of guy's, with 'roids over use, the side affects may get you some where down the road. The genetic factor again, for some prople get excellent progress in size and strength. While others can get very little to show for their efforts and use. Good Luck.
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hey now J i do 21's from time to time....Ronnie Coleman does them also in one of his videos with about 120lbs.
Sorry dude - was a bit low on the ol' carbs last night. ;)
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Ive had a look for information about the CNS but it seems to be limited. With the nervous system being far more complex than the muscular structure, there is less understanding in the medical community.
I guess what i really want to know is how do you believe you should cater to your CNS.
Your muscles 'speak' to you and let you know when its time for a break, your CNS wont unless things have already started to go wrong. Would you suggest a break from lifting in order to protect it, say a week or two off every 3 months?
Thanks
EDUCATION
British Journal of Sports Medicine. 38(4):511-514, August 2004.
Noakes, T D; St Clair Gibson, A; Lambert, E V
Abstract:
It is a popular belief that exercise performance is limited by metabolic changes in the exercising muscles, so called peripheral fatigue. Exercise terminates when there is a catastrophic failure of homoeostasis in the exercising muscles. A revolutionary theory is presented that proposes that exercise performance is regulated by the central nervous system specifically to ensure that catastrophic physiological failure does not occur during normal exercise in humans.
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Does anyone have any good curl routines for increasing curl strength? Right now I'm trying to do 3 sets of 8. It seems like 5x5 would be too much for the bicep to handle. I'm really not worried about size, just strength.
Alternating Seated Dumbell Curls 2-4 per arm 6-8 sets as heavy as you can go. Lean to the side of the arm you're curling, almost like you're leaning over the dumbell. The weight should be heavy enough that each rep is a struggle. Don't swing, you want the bicep to overcome the dead weight.
Make sure you do at least 25 total reps per arm, you might have to add extra sets.
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21's and drop sets are good
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the time you're wasting on your "curl program" could be spent doing, y'know, important stuff. ::)
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the time you're wasting on your "curl program" could be spent doing, y'know, important stuff. ::)
Great suggestion. ::)
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okay then here's a suggestion. start doing all of your back work with an underhand grip. once you're doing underhand rows with 315 and doing chins with a 100 pound dumbbell on your waist for a set of 5, you'll have some good biceps. curl, but don't bother with a "curl program".
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Maybe you missed what this thread was about. I am trying to develops curl strength, I do not care about the size of my bicep, nor do I care to do underhand rows. I do however have my own set of goals which include howmuch I can curl for a power sports competition. Not having a curl program for this would be like training for bench without benching, it just wouldn't make sence.
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okay then here's a suggestion. start doing all of your back work with an underhand grip. once you're doing underhand rows with 315 and doing chins with a 100 pound dumbbell on your waist for a set of 5, you'll have some good biceps. curl, but don't bother with a "curl program".
yes that will really hit the biceps well
red part: is that possible?? the bigger you are the stronger you get, but your weight goes up too so it's a moot point.
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yes that will really hit the biceps well
red part: is that possible?? the bigger you are the stronger you get, but your weight goes up too so it's a moot point.
magoo is right on..
my biceps are the same size as they were when i was hitting them religiously and all i'm doing is heavy back work and nothing else adn they're still a strong as ever.
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my biceps are the same size as they were when i was hitting them religiously and all i'm doing is heavy back work and nothing else adn they're still a strong as ever.
Actually that can be misleading, because it takes a lot less to maintain than to build, which doesn't mean compounds would be enough from day one. I don't believe believe that compounds were responsible for most of my development. But they could be enough if done in specific ways that essentially make compounds into at least partial isolation exercises.
They can then be more effective by focusing on certain areas of ROM and form. By doing that further isolation of specific muscles is realized within a compound, This is exactly why it's suggested that compounds like bench press and lat work be made more effective by using certain techniques.
For example, chins work the bis intensely and can be even more effective by emphasizing parts of the ROM and changing the form used. Focusing on the upper range of ROM closer to the bar, rather than lowering all the way down where the back comes into play more is one way.
Another way is to modify form. With chins it's usually suggested to focus on elbow movement in order to focus more highly on the lats rather than arms. Converely, greater arm flection and development is realized by forgetting about elbows and focusing on maximum forearm movement. Focusing on the upper area of ROM on chins also hits the biceps better.
The same rules apply to any compound re: both ROM and form. For example, when Milos and others show had to best do bench presses for chest development, it's the same idea as above-by using scapular retraction the effect is more greatly concentrated on chest, just as the same scapular retraction applies to lat work.
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direct bicep work is absolutely necessary to achieve good shape when hitting bodybuilding poses - front double bicep, side chest, back double bicep, most muscular. without direct bicep work the lifter will look very undeveloped in these shots.
however, if one has no interest in bodybuilding, and just likes to lift heavy and look big, then theres no real reason to focus on direct bicep work.
...........ive always been a very strong curler...pulling movement... pulls come naturally to me. only now am i learning to lift with equal "NOT GIVE A FUCK" on push movements as i have always done on pull movements.