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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: ag2 on March 20, 2009, 01:55:35 PM

Title: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: ag2 on March 20, 2009, 01:55:35 PM
This trainer at my gym was talking about multi grain and whole wheat bread saying that they are "good carbs" and it's ok to have these during dieting.  I had always thought that Bread was bad for things like that, can anyone shed some light or is the trainer BS?   ???
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: NaturalWonder83 on March 20, 2009, 01:56:15 PM
ezekiel bread is the best
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Method101 on March 20, 2009, 01:57:44 PM
carbs are carbs...
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Mr. Magoo on March 20, 2009, 02:14:05 PM
wheat has a lot of fiber
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Eyeball Chambers on March 20, 2009, 02:14:44 PM
Gluten = All bad for me
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: wavelength on March 20, 2009, 02:14:59 PM
Complete bullshit, every bread is good.
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Captain Equipoise on March 20, 2009, 02:38:33 PM
ezekiel bread is the best

Heh, that shit is really hardcore! a loaf is like $9 and is the size of a roll of quarters... ezekiel and kamut bread.
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Saxon on March 20, 2009, 02:40:42 PM
Potato bread fried in animal fat is one of the greatest pleasures a man can experience outside of the bedroom.
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: wavelength on March 20, 2009, 02:42:15 PM
Potato bread fried in animal fat is one of the greatest pleasures a man can experience outside of the bedroom.

I like your way of thinking
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Butterbean on March 20, 2009, 02:44:43 PM
ezekiel bread is the best
x2

I ate "Natural Ovens" bread even during a contest diet which is like Ezekiel Bread.


Another good bread is Mestermacher


Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Method101 on March 20, 2009, 02:52:17 PM
Gluten = All bad
No,
Estrogen is good for gaining muscle and hair/nails/skin health.
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: tbombz on March 20, 2009, 03:17:02 PM
Complete bullshit, every bread is good.
this summed up the 2 posts above it quite nicely. well done.
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Eyeball Chambers on March 20, 2009, 03:18:04 PM
No,
Estrogen is good for gaining muscle and hair/nails/skin health.

Gluten = All bad for me

Fixed
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: wavelength on March 20, 2009, 03:18:39 PM
this summed up the 2 posts above it quite nicely. well done.

are you being sarcastic or do you actually agree?
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Boost on March 20, 2009, 03:20:48 PM
As long as u don't eat an enitre loaf in one sitting, any bread is fine IMO

garlic bread is ideal for both dieting and bulking

Portion control is King. This is the hard part because once you start eating bread, it's very hard to stop.

(http://www.cybereat.com/images/garlicbread.jpg)
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: tbombz on March 20, 2009, 03:21:30 PM
are you being sarcastic or do you actually agree?
 ;D lol what do you think , was i serious or facetious ?
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: wavelength on March 20, 2009, 03:24:05 PM
 ;D lol what do you think , was i serious or facetious ?

You never know with these young punks today ;D
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Wiggs on March 20, 2009, 03:33:17 PM
As long as u don't eat an enitre loaf in one sitting, any bread is fine IMO

garlic bread is ideal for both dieting and bulking

Portion control is King. This is the hard part because once you start eating bread, it's very hard to stop.

(http://www.cybereat.com/images/garlicbread.jpg)


How is Garlic bread ideal for dieting?  It's white bread which contains flour and in that Garlic spread is butter.
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: wavelength on March 20, 2009, 03:34:33 PM
How is Garlic bread ideal for dieting?  It's white bread which contains flour and in that Garlic spread is butter.

... and your point is?
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: dr.chimps on March 20, 2009, 03:36:34 PM
Where's Goudy and his 3 loaf/day habit? 
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Wiggs on March 20, 2009, 03:37:56 PM
... and your point is?

1.  Carbs
2.  Sugar
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: wavelength on March 20, 2009, 03:39:15 PM
1.  Carbs
2.  Sugar

perfectly fine on any diet.
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Boost on March 20, 2009, 03:39:44 PM
How is Garlic bread ideal for dieting?  It's white bread which contains flour and in that Garlic spread is butter.
IMO there is no such thing as a "bad food" for dieting.

if u only eat a max of 400 calories of anything in one sitting, u will raise ur metabolism and not get fat.

The hard part is controlling urself and stopping eating when ur only half full.

It's all about gettin ur metabolism sky high.

You can have your cake and eat it (just one small slice at a time)

(http://www.shyiam.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/cheesecake.jpg)

Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Faust on March 20, 2009, 03:40:27 PM
Where's Goudy and his 3 loaf/day habit? 
probably eating some potatoes
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Wiggs on March 20, 2009, 03:42:36 PM
Gentlemen.  If it's not promoting fat loss or muscle gains, it's promoting fat storage.

This is true...
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: tbombz on March 20, 2009, 03:42:44 PM
1.  Carbs
2.  Sugar

simple carbs and saturated fats !

lol

adonis principle is right though, you can burn fat regardless what you eat, just have to make sure the balance is tipped towards bodyfat over food youve eaten. either low energy consumption or increase energy output.  
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: bigbobs on March 20, 2009, 03:44:39 PM
Really depends what else is included in your diet.  Without knowing what else you're eating no one can really say whether any bread is "bad" or "good"
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: wavelength on March 20, 2009, 03:45:09 PM
Gentlemen.  If it's not promoting fat loss or muscle gains, it's promoting fat storage.
This is true...

As long as protein is high enough, you are wrong.
Total intake = weight
Protein = body composition
Rest = irrelevant
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Boost on March 20, 2009, 03:46:41 PM
Really depends what else is included in your diet.  Without knowing what else you're eating no one can really say whether any bread is "bad" or "good"
Hey bobs,

does Nasser eat what he likes?

or does he follow a diet?

i'd be willing to bet that he is a man who enjoys good food
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: bigbobs on March 20, 2009, 03:48:29 PM
Hey bobs,

does Nasser eat what he likes?

or does he follow a diet?

i'd be willing to bet that he is a man who enjoys good food

Right now he largely eats what he likes.  During the offseason of his competitive days he still ate whatever he liked but also usually ate more protein than he does these days.  When dieting for shows he ate very strict, up 600 grams of protein and 80 to 250 grams of carbs per day.
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Wiggs on March 20, 2009, 03:52:17 PM
As long as protein is high enough, you are wrong.
Total intake = weight
Protein = body composition
Rest = irrelevant

Put it this way, what is the garlic bread doing for my body?  Is it promoting muscle growth? NO  Is it satisfying my appitite and promoting fat storage?  Yes.
Even if the rest of my diet was great, I'm speaking just on Garlic bread.  Yes, a little won't hurt but you'd be better of without it.  It's useless.  That is my point.

Therefore, it does promote fat storage.  Even if you are doing other things to burn it off.
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: tbombz on March 20, 2009, 03:57:13 PM
Put it this way, what is the garlic bread doing for my body?  Is it promoting muscle growth? NO  Is it satisfying my appitite and promoting fat storage?  Yes.
Even if the rest of my diet was great, I'm speaking just on Garlic bread.  Yes, a little won't hurt but you'd be better of without it.  It's useless.  That is my point.

Therefore, it does promote fat storage.  Even if you are doing other things to burn it off.
garlic bread does too promote growth. its a carbohydrate with some saturated fat. calories. glycogen. insulin. fats. drop in blood glucose after digestion of simple white bread causes gh release. saturated fat used for fuel to power the actual muscle building process.
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: wavelength on March 20, 2009, 03:58:00 PM
Put it this way, what is the garlic bread doing for my body?  Is it promoting muscle growth? NO  Is it satisfying my appitite and promoting fat storage?  Yes.
Even if the rest of my diet was great, I'm speaking just on Garlic bread.  Yes, a little won't hurt but you'd be better of without it.  It's useless.  That is my point.

Therefore, it does promote fat storage.  Even if you are doing other things to burn it off.

Everything that is above your maintenance intake and your genetic ability to gain muscle mass promotes fat storage.
Completely irrelevant if it's garlic bread or chicken breast.
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Wiggs on March 20, 2009, 03:58:46 PM
garlic bread does too promote growth. its a carbohydrate with some saturated fat. calories. glycogen. insulin. fats. drop in blood glucose after digestion of simple white bread causes gh release. saturated fat used for fuel to power the actual muscle building process.

Yes tbombz because bread has been a staple in helping people lose weight for years ::)
Please, you know what I meant.
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: wavelength on March 20, 2009, 04:00:48 PM
Yes tbombz because bread has been a staple in helping people lose weight for years ::)
Please, you know what I meant.

You can get absolutely shredded on protein powder and bread.
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Boost on March 20, 2009, 04:04:11 PM
Metabolism is King at the end of the day.

That's how Goudy can eat 3 loafs of bread and still remain lean.

You should be doing everything in your power to jack up your metabolism and turn you into
a lean, mean, fat burning, muscle buiding machine,

I couldn't imagine not eating these foods on a daily basis.

(http://1actressinoregon.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/chocolatecake.jpg)
(http://marialiberati.com/blog2/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/pizza.jpg)
(http://www.pennineltd.co.uk/images/dinkum%20thick%20shake%20glass.jpg)
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: tbombz on March 20, 2009, 04:07:30 PM
Yes tbombz because bread has been a staple is helping people loose weight for years ::)
Please, you know what I meant.
Bread? or do you mean white bread?  

when it comes to losing fat white bread may even be superior to "whole wheat bread"

Tangentially I’d note, and one weird little study supports this, that spiking insulin (and letting it crash back down) might be superior for fat loss than the standard strategy of trying to keep insulin low but stable all day long.   The reason is that even tiny amounts of insulin block lipolysis, if you keep insulin low but stable all day, you are effectively impairing lipolysis.  But the study in question showed that blood fatty acid levels came back up much faster when insulin was spiked (which crashed blood glucose back down, lowering insulin).  The drawback, mind you, is that rapidly falling blood glucose tends to make people hungry and calorie control would be nearly impossible with this strategy.  And, as you’ll see below, in a hypocaloric situation, it probably doesn’t matter a bit.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/insulin-levels-and-fat-loss-qa.html
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Boost on March 20, 2009, 04:11:19 PM
Bread? or do you mean white bread?  

when it comes to losing fat white bread may even be superior to "whole wheat bread"

Tangentially I’d note, and one weird little study supports this, that spiking insulin (and letting it crash back down) might be superior for fat loss than the standard strategy of trying to keep insulin low but stable all day long.   The reason is that even tiny amounts of insulin block lipolysis, if you keep insulin low but stable all day, you are effectively impairing lipolysis.  But the study in question showed that blood fatty acid levels came back up much faster when insulin was spiked (which crashed blood glucose back down, lowering insulin).  The drawback, mind you, is that rapidly falling blood glucose tends to make people hungry and calorie control would be nearly impossible with this strategy.  And, as you’ll see below, in a hypocaloric situation, it probably doesn’t matter a bit.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/insulin-levels-and-fat-loss-qa.html
Bombz,

are u still doing the periods of bulking followed by short periods of cutting?

How's that working for u?
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: tbombz on March 20, 2009, 04:17:29 PM
Bombz,

are u still doing the periods of bulking followed by short periods of cutting?

How's that working for u?
no im not dieting again for a while
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: SweetMuscles on March 20, 2009, 04:19:15 PM
Bread is definitely a hunger triggering food for me.
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: ManBearPig... on March 20, 2009, 04:29:42 PM
no im not dieting again for a while

how's the acne?
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Samourai Pizzacat on March 20, 2009, 04:35:57 PM
Wholegrain bread contains much higher quantities of trace elements and fibre, it is for all intents and purposes healthier then white bread, like garlic bread.

Sure you can loose weight on a crap diet, no doubt about it, just compare immune system function, bone density, etc 5 years later, see if you still think crap diets are in any way equal...
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: windsor88 on March 20, 2009, 04:36:50 PM
Cinnamon raisin bread is good

(http://mnscout.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/25_bake_cut_and_taste.jpg)
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: tbombz on March 20, 2009, 04:37:37 PM
Cinnamon raisin bread is good

(http://mnscout.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/25_bake_cut_and_taste.jpg)
i forgot about that stuff.. mmmmm hella bomb...
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: wes on March 20, 2009, 05:38:35 PM
The only good bread,is dead bread!
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Kegdrainer on March 20, 2009, 05:47:12 PM
i dont eat wheat based bread.  Bread made from oat flour or rye flour is lower on the glycemic index than wheat flour.  It's just wasteful for me to buy bread it's only really good when it's fresh so after 4 slices in a day what do you do with the rest of the loaf?  I like the LA tortilla factory high fiber wraps, only like 14 net carbs or something and 12-15g fiber in one wrap.
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: CalvinH on March 20, 2009, 05:47:22 PM
East Coast Italian bread smothered in butter,mmm,mmm :)
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Tapeworm on March 20, 2009, 06:52:47 PM
i dont eat wheat based bread.  Bread made from oat flour or rye flour is lower on the glycemic index than wheat flour.  It's just wasteful for me to buy bread it's only really good when it's fresh so after 4 slices in a day what do you do with the rest of the loaf?  I like the LA tortilla factory high fiber wraps, only like 14 net carbs or something and 12-15g fiber in one wrap.


All leavened bread is wheat based.  Only wheat contains the aminos gliadin and glutenin which is necessary to support the structure and hold the gasses during rising.  Commercial rye breads are probably still 75% wheat flour.  A boutique bakery might have a high gluten low wheat flour bread but it would be a rarity.

Staling is caused by the process of starch retrogradation.  Generally, plain breads will stale faster than breads with additives (eggs, sugars, etc).  Keep bread at room temp or in the freezer (presliced) if you aren't going to eat it fast.  Never refrigerate bread - it will stale almost immediately.
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: webcake on March 20, 2009, 06:53:44 PM
Love me some motherfuckin toast....... 8)
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: fathead on March 20, 2009, 06:58:52 PM
good ol' corn bread
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: webcake on March 20, 2009, 06:59:24 PM
good ol' corn bread

Hi Ronnie.....
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: liberalismo on March 20, 2009, 07:16:15 PM
Whole wheat, Whole grain, Multigrain whole wheat. All good.

White bread or Honeywheat aren't good since they are enriched. Sucked of nutrients and filled with preservatives. Also many have dyes and colorings and other things.
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: CT_Muscle on March 20, 2009, 07:45:59 PM
ezekiel bread is the best

Combine it with peanut butter and you have a complete protein

tbombz u wanna chime in on this......
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: tbombz on March 20, 2009, 07:55:13 PM
Never refrigerate bread - it will stale almost immediately.
mother fucking shit ajdhfbvjahbclajcnefaed


thanks for the tip
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Tapeworm on March 21, 2009, 02:44:46 AM
mother fucking shit ajdhfbvjahbclajcnefaed


thanks for the tip

 ;)

"STARCH RETROGRADATION—THE FORMATION OF TOO MUCH STRUCTURE
Starch retrogradation is a process in which starch
molecules in a cooked or baked and cooled product
bond more and more closely over time, increasing
structure. It is as if the starch molecules wish
to return—retro—to the tightly bonded state of
ungelatinized starch granules. When this happens
to starch-based creams and pie fi llings, products
shrink and fi rm up, becoming tough and rubbery.
The shrinking network of tightly bonded starch
molecules squeezes out water, causing weeping,
also known as syneresis. It is this process that
makes high-amylose starches, such as cornstarch,
inappropriate for creams and fi llings that are to be
frozen or refrigerated for any length of time.
When starches retrograde in baked goods,
the soft crumb becomes dry, hard, and crumbly.
In other words, starch retrogradation is a primary
cause of staling in baked goods. Water may be
squeezed out of the starch, but it is not evident in
baked goods because other ingredients are likely to
absorb the water.
Starch retrogradation—staling—of baked
goods can be delayed by covering products to
prevent moisture loss; by storing products at
room temperature or in the freezer—not in the
refrigerator, where retrogradation is fastest
; and
by adding ingredients that slow down the process.
Sugars, proteins, fats, and emulsifi ers are
all effective at delaying starch retrogradation.
Because pastries contain large amounts of these
ingredients, they are slower to stale than breads
and rolls."

Page 193 of
HOW
BAKING
WORKS
Exploring the Fundamentals of Baking Science
S E C O N D E D I T I O N
Paula Figoni
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: webcake on March 21, 2009, 02:45:43 AM
Just keep that shit in the freezer..... 8)
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Tapeworm on March 21, 2009, 02:50:55 AM
Just keep that shit in the freezer..... 8)

"Is da bread Helga's?"
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: webcake on March 21, 2009, 02:51:46 AM
"Is da bread Helga's?"

Only the best when it comes to bread.....

Bread = serious business
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Tapeworm on March 21, 2009, 02:58:53 AM
Only the best when it comes to bread.....

Bread = serious business

Make some yourself Web!  Homemade bread kicks ass over storebought crap.
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: webcake on March 21, 2009, 03:00:57 AM
Make some yourself Web!  Homemade bread kicks ass over storebought crap.

Good idea!

We have a bread maker.......packed away in a cupboard still in it's box. I might have to crack that bitch open!
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Tapeworm on March 21, 2009, 03:29:52 AM
Good idea!

We have a bread maker.......packed away in a cupboard still in it's box. I might have to crack that bitch open!

I've never used one but they seem very popular.  It will certainly be less labour intensive than hand kneeding, but you might be limited in your control of the dough and loaf.  I use a Kitchen Aid for partial kneeding and finish it off by hand.

For example, I like to use a preferment (poolish) and add amalyse/bread improver to a 60/2/2 bread (.6g of water to each 1g of flour, .02g yeast, .02g salt), then let it rest overnight in the fridge.  Or you can do really far out stuff - fig & walnut is a good combo, olive & rosemary, etc, or something in between like a milk bread (which is the basic recipe of most storebought sandwich loaves, although their rushed production time doesn't allow flavour to develop).  Shape a pan loaf for sandwich bread, french stick or any free form loaf, or go with foccachia, pizza, etc, with only minor adjustments in the ingredients and procedure, enriched doughs like brioche and coffee cake, etc.

The ingredients are so cheap they're basically free.  Start doing pastries and forget about it.  Your parents will never let you move out.  Everyone loves a baker.
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: webcake on March 21, 2009, 03:39:02 AM
I've never used one but they seem very popular.  It will certainly be less labour intensive than hand kneeding, but you might be limited in your control of the dough and loaf.  I use a Kitchen Aid for partial kneeding and finish it off by hand.

For example, I like to use a preferment (poolish) and add amalyse/bread improver to a 60/2/2 bread (.6g of water to each 1g of flour, .02g yeast, .02g salt), then let it rest overnight in the fridge.  Or you can do really far out stuff - fig & walnut is a good combo, olive & rosemary, etc, or something in between like a milk bread (which is the basic recipe of most storebought sandwich loaves, although their rushed production time doesn't allow flavour to develop).  Shape a pan loaf for sandwich bread, french stick or any free form loaf, or go with foccachia, pizza, etc, with only minor adjustments in the ingredients and procedure, enriched doughs like brioche and coffee cake, etc.

The ingredients are so cheap they're basically free.  Start doing pastries and forget about it.  Your parents will never let you move out.  Everyone loves a baker.

Like i said.......bread = serious business

I'll give it a go, will probably be fun. I actually quite enjoy cooking/preparing food. And as i said, i love me some bread.

I might use a Kitchen Aid. Honestly, i think my mum bought it as a decoration for the kitchen rather than actually ever use it. Crazy expensive..... :o
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: JasonH on March 21, 2009, 03:54:32 AM
I eat about three or four slices of multigrain/wholegrain bread every day for breakfast. It's great food at that time of the day but I wouldn't consider eating any breads in the evenings.
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Tapeworm on March 21, 2009, 04:20:20 AM
Like i said.......bread = serious business

I'll give it a go, will probably be fun. I actually quite enjoy cooking/preparing food. And as i said, i love me some bread.

I might use a Kitchen Aid. Honestly, i think my mum bought it as a decoration for the kitchen rather than actually ever use it. Crazy expensive..... :o

Great machine.  You should have a dough hook attachment that came with it.  It's not on the professional level but it's still a great labour saver (there's also a meat grinder attachment for it if you want to do your own mince).  If you have any questions about recipes or procedures, shoot me a pm.
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: webcake on March 21, 2009, 04:28:12 AM
Great machine.  You should have a dough hook attachment that came with it.  It's not on the professional level but it's still a great labour saver (there's also a meat grinder attachment for it if you want to do your own mince).  If you have any questions about recipes or procedures, shoot me a pm.

I'll let you know how it goes.....

How long does it take for the bread to bake in the bread maker? Few hours?
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: wavelength on March 21, 2009, 04:46:24 AM
I'll repeat: every kind of bread is perfectly fine on any kind of diet.
Title: Re: Is there such a thing as good bread?
Post by: Tapeworm on March 21, 2009, 04:47:31 AM
I'll let you know how it goes.....

How long does it take for the bread to bake in the bread maker? Few hours?

Can't really say about bread makers.  They're probably faster than manual preparation, but the trade off is that the faster a dough develops, the less flavour the bread will have.  I bet you can set it for different speeds though.

I just use my oven with a baking stone (not essential), and actual baking time is anywhere from 10-45 minutes depending on the loaf shape, size, and oven temp.  Prior to baking, however, I usually let the dough develop over a period of 12-24 hours in the fridge.

A bread maker seems like a good way to start tho.  Sorry I can't offer much help with them.  You'll have to read the instructions Web!