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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: nicky.smth on August 12, 2009, 12:37:40 PM
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090812/ap_on_re_eu/eu_france_burquini_banned..
By MARIA DANILOVA, Associated Press Writer Maria Danilova, Associated Press Writer – 3 mins ago
PARIS – A Muslim woman garbed in a head-to-toe swimsuit — dubbed a "burquini" — may have opened a new chapter in France's tussle between religious practices and its stern secular code.
Officials insisted Wednesday they banned the woman's use of the Islam-friendly suit at a local pool because of France's pool hygiene standards — not out of hostility to overtly Muslim garb.
Under the policy, swimmers are not allowed in pools with baggy clothing, including surfer-style shorts. Only figure-hugging suits are permitted.
Nonetheless the woman, a 35-year-old convert to Islam identified only as Carole, complained of religious discrimination after trying to go swimming in a "burquini," a full-body swimsuit, in the town of Emerainville, southeast of Paris.
She was quoted as telling the daily Le Parisien newspaper that she had bought the burquini after deciding "it would allow me the pleasure of bathing without showing too much of myself, as Islam recommends."
"For me this is nothing but segregation," she said.
The issue of religious attire is a hot topic in France, where head-to-toe burqas or other full-body coverings worn by some Muslim fundamentalists are in official disfavor.
France is home to western Europe's largest Muslim population, estimated at 5 million, and Islam is the nation's second religion after Roman Catholicism.
A 2004 law banning the wearing of Muslim head scarves at public schools sparked fierce debate. That legislation also banned Jewish skullcaps and large Christian crosses in public classrooms.
French lawmakers recently revived the issue of Muslim dress with a proposal that the burqa and other voluminous Muslim attire be banned.
President Nicolas Sarkozy, a conservative, backs the move, saying such garb makes women prisoners.
The "burquini" covers the arms to the wrists and the legs to the ankle and has a hood to cover neck and hair.
An official in charge of swimming pools for the Emerainville region, Daniel Guillaume, said the refusal to allow the local woman to swim in her "burquini" had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with public health standards.
"These clothes are used in public, so they can contain molecules, viruses, et cetera, which will go in the water and could be transmitted to other bathers," Guillaume said in a telephone interview.
"We reminded this woman that one should not bathe all dressed, just as we would tell someone who is a nudist not to bathe all naked," he said.
Guillaume said France's public health standards require all pool-goers to don swimsuits for women and tight, swimming briefs for men — and caps to cover their hair. Bathers also must shower before entering the water.
Guillaume said Carole had tried to file a complaint at a local police station, but her request was turned down as groundless.
Carole told the daily Le Parisien she would protest with the help of anti-discrimination groups.
Emerainville Mayor Alan Kelyor said he could not understand why the woman would want to swim in head-to-toe clothes.
"We are going back in civilization," he said by telephone. Women have fought for decades for equal rights with men, he said. "Now we are putting them back in burqas and veils."
The suits have a clear market.
Women "jump on the occasion so they can swim with their families. Otherwise, they end up staying on the beach and watching," said Leila Mouhoubia, who runs an online site from France that specializes in the sale of Islamic swimsuits. Sales, she said, are strong.
"I think it's forbidden (in France) because it presents an image of the Muslim woman (and) they have prejudices against Muslims," she said by telephone. "They want women to be undressed."
Mouloud Aounit, head of the anti-racism group known as MRAP, said the decision to ban Carole from the pool appeared fair, since pool authorities were observing regulations. But Aounit lamented that the incident was likely to fuel religious tensions.
"The rules must be the same for everybody, regardless of the color of their skin or their religion," Aounit said. "The concern I have is that this case will again lead to stigmatization of the Muslim population in France."
The all-body suits, worn regularly by some women in Muslim countries, are growing popular in the West. They can be seen on female Muslim lifeguards on Australian beaches, in the United States and various European countries, from the Netherlands to Sweden — which OKed them after two women won discrimination cases last year.
__________
Associated Press Writers Rod McGuirk in Sydney, Australia, Melissa Eddy in Berlin, Germany, Malin Rising in Stockholm, Sweden, Ian MacDougall in Oslo, Norway, and Toby Sterlin in Amsterdam, the Netherlands contributed to this report.
(This version CORRECTS headlines to "French pool" sted "Paris pool."
opionons/ getbiggers?
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Praise Allah. The spineless Euro Cowards are finally standing up to the religion of Satan.
Lets see if they can stomach the terrorist backlash.
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i bet when our women go to the middle east they have to adapt to their culture as well right?
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i bet when our women go to the middle east they have to adapt to their culture as well right?
good question..I'll ask MAtt T...
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Great point. Western people must adapt to the middle east when they go over, but when the situation is reversed and they go west it is a big deal if they are told to conform to the western civilization
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burn all these fucker and socialist that let them coming in my country. >:(
this bitch is french, "carole" but converted to islam, oh jesus !!!
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Here in Sweden they have Muslim only nights at some swimming pool facilities.
Heard it from a buddy who went to the pool with his son, but in his words, they had "Halal-Bath night".
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i bet when our women go to the middle east they have to adapt to their culture as well right?
QFT.
A friend of mine got "arrested" in the Emirates for kissing his wife goodbye.
Degenerates.
Dunno how you Euros do it, but in America this wouldn't fly more than 3 feet.
(http://images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/20080902/293.sons.of.anarchy.090208.jpg)
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I support this 100%
And I was raised a Muslim.
Now an Ex-Muslim!
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QFT.
A friend of mine got "arrested" in the Emirates for kissing his wife goodbye.
Degenerates.
Dunno how you Euros do it, but in America this wouldn't fly more than 3 feet.
(http://images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/20080902/293.sons.of.anarchy.090208.jpg)
he should have read the board. i already wrote mths back that you get 6 mths in jail for public affection including holding hands.
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I support this 100%
And I was raised a Muslim.
Now an Ex-Muslim!
Amen Brother. It's an honor to have you on the good side.
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I support this 100%
And I was raised a Muslim.
Now an Ex-Muslim!
why ex? did you divorce your husband?
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QFT.
A friend of mine got "arrested" in the Emirates for kissing his wife goodbye.
Degenerates.
Dunno how you Euros do it, but in America this wouldn't fly more than 3 feet.
Sure dude.
That's why mexicans can get away with murder around here. Literally.
Americans will let anything fly these days.
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its amazing how much women overthere walk around totally covered out of free will, why would a god prescribe such a retarted thing?
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Americans will let anything fly these days.
I dont know what city/state you're in. Lots of peer regulation in S Florida. We don't have a problem with illegals. they keep their heads down and are polite, for the most part. Maybe in the rough part of town, they're worse I'm sure. in redneck area, they STFU. nothing a cracker redneck would love more than slamming some illegal to the ground with a .44 to his head until the law arrived.
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Great point. Western people must adapt to the middle east when they go over, but when the situation is reversed and they go west it is a big deal if they are told to conform to the western civilization
by adapting to the traditions of the middle east a female is asked to dress decently so she doesn't offend/seduce anyone. i don't think that a decent breast covering/crack hiding outfit will give her the claimed catastrophic mental damage as everyone is claiming.
on the other hand if a female decides to cover her hair and show her face then i don't see how anyone could be bothered with that, after all women wear hats don't they?
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QFT.
A friend of mine got "arrested" in the Emirates for kissing his wife goodbye.
Degenerates.
Dunno how you Euros do it, but in America this wouldn't fly more than 3 feet.
a bit ironic. degenerates are the ones that go intimate in public.. caveman-esque.
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non muslims are also prohibited to visit mecca while muslims can visit in Rome the hell they want.
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non muslims are also prohibited to visit mecca while muslims can visit in Rome the hell they want.
and what would you want from mecca? no Muslim would complain if you banned them from Rome. for each his own.
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well its one of the backwarded things.
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and what would you want from mecca? no Muslim would complain if you banned them from Rome. for each his own.
Why would you not want to go to Rome?
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Why would you not want to go to Rome?
if Christians decide to make Rome/Vatican a holy place for Christians only, as Muslims have mecca for Muslims only then so be it.
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I can understand the standards for safety & hygiene, and I can also understand their mistaking some of the burquinis as streetwear, in that they do look rather similar, but it is still discriminatory. It's a swimsuit, ...and therefore logically would only be worn in the pool. I don't see how harmful bacteria or viruses would attach themselves if only worn in the pool. I'd think there'd be a greater risk of viral and/or bacteriological contamination by traditional swimsuits. How many people wear those in lieu of underwear on a regular basis?
It's an issue of power & control, ...pure & simple.
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burqa is in our civilized world a symbol of oppression, in our world man and woman are equal, that they still live overthere in the middle ages is their problem.
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I can understand the standards for safety & hygiene, and I can also understand their mistaking some of the burquinis as streetwear, in that they do look rather similar, but it is still discriminatory. It's a swimsuit, ...and therefore logically would only be worn in the pool. I don't see how harmful bacteria or viruses would attach themselves if only worn in the pool. I'd think there'd be a greater risk of viral and/or bacteriological contamination by traditional swimsuits. How many people wear those in lieu of underwear on a regular basis?
It's an issue of power & control, ...pure & simple.
STFU crackhead nobody gave you the right to reply on this thread.
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STFU crackhead nobody gave you the right to reply on this thread.
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/en/laughing_at_u.gif)
And you call me a crackhead?!
Don't worry Alex, ...opinions aren't bullets. They won't kill you, ...but bursting a blood vessel might.
ps: Sit back, ...down a valium, and chill out, ...and if that doesn't do it... ya know... there's always Prozac. ;D
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(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/en/laughing_at_u.gif)
And you call me a crackhead?!
Don't worry Alex, ...opinions aren't bullets. They won't kill you, ...but bursting a blood vessel might.
ps: Sit back, ...down a valium, and chill out, ...and if that doesn't do it... ya know... there's always Prozac. ;D
Should I remind you that Toronto (the town that took you in) was the hometown of cheering muslims, jubilating and joy crying when 9/11 occured?
Quite a "country" you have up there... ::) ::) ::)
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One day at the gym some "thing" was actually wearing one of those black tarps and looking like a syth from Star Wars....she tripped getting off the elliptical....me and a group of guys pointed and laughed for about 5 minutes while she rolled around in the thing trying to get up.....f'n idiot.
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(http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2005/04/15/sith_wideweb__430x292.jpg)
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If she doesn't like it, tough. The whole world does not need to abide by Muslim law.
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Anyone have a picture? I completely support the right of individual religious preferences and religious tolerance but the issue with some muslims is that their laws and customs cannot be separated from their religion. We have separation of church and state. Some muslims refuse to integrate into the local culture and they expect us to change our rules to accomodate them, which is not acceptable. If they like their culture, laws and customs so much, why do they move to western countries?
We must be tolerant but also must not change our customs, ways and laws to accomodate muslim fundamentalists. Next thing they will want to change public schools to include muslim teachings, judicial proceedings to respect shaira law and state/local laws to adapt to traditional muslim laws. Thats crap, we must set boundries and make people assimilate into western culture if they want to live here as a citizen. Look what has happened to parts of Europe where muslims are already pushing for these things...its not an untangeable prediction.
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Anyone have a picture? I completely support the right of individual religious preferences and religious tolerance but the issue with some muslims is that their laws and customs cannot be separated from their religion. We have separation of church and state. Some muslims refuse to integrate into the local culture and they expect us to change our rules to accomodate them, which is not acceptable. If they like their culture, laws and customs so much, why do they move to western countries?
We must be tolerant but also must not change our customs, ways and laws to accomodate muslim fundamentalists. Next thing they will want to change public schools to include muslim teachings, judicial proceedings to respect shaira law and state/local laws to adapt to traditional muslim laws. Thats crap, we must set boundries and make people assimilate into western culture if they want to live here as a citizen. Look what has happened to parts of Europe where muslims are already pushing for these things...its not an untangeable prediction.
They tried that in Australia and the Aussies told them to piss off. Other countries, including America, need to do the same thing.
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Tell the muzzies to go home if they don't like it.
What would happen if a westerner did ANYTHING comporable in an islamic country? Execution?
The west better quit bowing down to the mussies real quick... nothing good can come of it.
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France continues to fondle themselves down there and seems to have realized that their balls are on the verge of dropping. They denied some Muslim woman citizenship last year when she had absolutely no grasp of the French constitution or any of the rights afforded her as she was nothing more than a glorified slave of some Muslim guy.
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France continues to fondle themselves down there and seems to have realized that their balls are on the verge of dropping. They denied some Muslim woman citizenship last year when she had absolutely no grasp of the French constitution or any of the rights afforded her as she was nothing more than a glorified slave of some Muslim guy.
Wasn't there a case in the last couple of years where some muslim in Florida ( I think) tried to sue the state because they wouldn't let her wear that head garb hiding her face, on her drivers license photo? ::)
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Wasn't there a case in the last couple of years where some muslim in Florida ( I think) tried to sue the state because they wouldn't let her wear that head garb hiding her face, on her drivers license photo? ::)
She doesn't need a drivers license...
Literally millions of illegals drive without them every day.
I always thought that whole deal down there was a fabricated ACLU-style wet dream event...
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She doesn't need a drivers license...
Literally millions of illegals drive without them every day.
I always thought that whole deal down there was a fabricated ACLU-style wet dream event...
I agree. It was so over-the-top idiotic, that of course the ACLU was probably involved.
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Anyone have a picture?
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA . Fucking Muslims. ::)
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Fucking Muslims. ::)
(http://hotlineoncall.nationaljournal.com/nuns.jpg)
if a woman by her own free will decides to cover her hair or body then so be it. why would anyone have a problem with that?. in a world that lacks decency where people tend to force you to see what you may not want to see, i find this to be crazy.
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(http://hotlineoncall.nationaljournal.com/nuns.jpg)
if a woman by her own free will decides to cover her hair or body then so be it. why would anyone have a problem with that?. in a world that lacks decency where people tend to force you to see what you may not want to see, i find this to be crazy.
Was that supposed to be attacking my religion?
<---- Atheist. Fuck off Muslim.
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in a world that lacks decency where people tend to force you to see what you may not want to see
Are you referring to Mike Arvilla?
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Was that supposed to be attacking my religion?
<---- Atheist. Fuck off Muslim.
no, i was wondering why people never have a problem with nuns. i have zero problems with any religion.
and watch your mouth twink.
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no, i was wondering why people never have a problem with nuns.
Maybe because they don't go swimming in their habits ::)
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Maybe because they don't go swimming in their habits ::)
I don't really care about burqini-wearers one way or the other. To me they would be as annoying as fat people at the pool. I wish they both would stay away and not shove their personal shit in my face.
you happen to know that 99% of the world finds pro bodybuilders revolting, and would cringe at the mere sight of one.
and we are both typing in "GETBIG"
don't edit your posts next time ;D
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you happen to know that 99% of the world finds pro bodybuilders revolting, and would cringe at the mere sight of one.
and we are both typing in "GETBIG"
your logic is too deep for me
if I saw someone with a giant crucifix at the pool, I would be a little bit irritated. When in public, keep your personal shit to a minimum. I guess I roughly see your logic that maybe you don't want to see some bimbo's ass either (which is sad), but that is the norm around here and therefore less "offensive"
What if some unnamed getbiggers came to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and like they do at home wanted to take pictures of themselves in front of their apartment complex in their bathing suits? Would you be cool with it? Or would you want them to follow the norm?
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no, i was wondering why people never have a problem with nuns. i have zero problems with any religion.
and watch your mouth twink.
I have a problem with nuns and EVERY STUPID Religion, such as yours, which does nothing but suppress rational thought, hinder Science, progress and mistreat, belittle and dehumanize women for no other reason other than male arrogance and a fictitious belief in a sky god.
Your religion along with Christianity and Judaism are responsible for the most death and human suffering ever carried out on this tiny planet. Your religion especially is at the forefront of this ridiculous calamity.
Your culture and religion`s treatment of women and their suppression of freedom is appalling. With beliefs fueled by Sharia Law and a culture based on pure ignorance, a death cult and a poor understanding of the Universe and basic world facts, I cannot do anything else but condemn you and every single person who contributes to the debilitation of mankind. Lets face it, that is ALL you and your culture and religion are doing.
You drive a Ferrari but think the world is only 6000 years old and then subject your women to mental and physical torture. And some how you are okay with this gross disparity of sexism and male dominated barbarism.
It gives me nothing but a sour taste in my mouth and can only hope that your culture NEVER is imported by anyone else or exported beyond the walled ignorance of your sand castle dictatorship known as Saudi Arabia.
Christianity is horrible and oppressive enough, the last thing we or anyone else needs is a competing dogma for the same fairy tale and affectation of a Universal Sky God with differing prophet zombies and the ensuing war you both wish to fight over such utter nonsense.
Destroy yourselves somewhere else. Please.
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I have a problem with nuns and EVERY STUPID Religion, such as yours, which does nothing but suppress rational thought, hinder Science, progress and mistreat, belittle and dehumanize women for no other reason other than male arrogance and a fictitious belief in a sky god.
Your religion along with Christianity and Judaism are responsible for the most death and human suffering ever carried out on this tiny planet. Your religion especially is at the forefront of this ridiculous calamity.
Your culture and religion`s treatment of women and their suppression of freedom is appalling. With beliefs fueled by Sharia Law and a culture based on pure ignorance, a death cult and a poor understanding of the Universe and basic world facts, I cannot do anything else but condemn you and every single person who contributes to the debilitation of mankind. Lets face it, that is ALL you and your culture and religion are doing.
You drive a Ferrari but think the world is only 6000 years old and then subject your women to mental and physical torture. And some how you are okay with this gross disparity of sexism and male dominated barbarism.
It gives me nothing but a sour taste in my mouth and can only hope that your culture NEVER is imported by anyone else or exported beyond the walled ignorance of your sand castle dictatorship known as Saudi Arabia.
Christianity is horrible and oppressive enough, the last thing we or anyone else needs is a competing dogma for the same fairy tale and affectation of a Universal Sky God with differing prophet zombies and the ensuing war you both wish to fight over such utter nonsense.
Destroy yourselves somewhere else. Please.
I second that! All three monotheisms suck donkey balls
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your logic is too deep for me
if I saw someone with a giant crucifix at the pool, I would be a little bit irritated. When in public, keep your personal shit to a minimum. I guess I roughly see your logic that maybe you don't want to see some bimbo's ass either (which is sad), but that is the norm around here and therefore less "offensive"
What if some unnamed getbiggers came to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and like they do at home wanted to take pictures of themselves in front of their apartment complex in their bathing suits? Would you be cool with it? Or would you want them to follow the norm?
i personally wouldn't mind seeing a bimbo's ass but that's just me. unnamed getbiggers will live in private compounds where they can walk naked if they wanted to, they just can't go like that in public and i approve that for the benefit of everyone.
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i personally wouldn't mind seeing a bimbo's ass but that's just me. unnamed getbiggers will live in private compounds where they can walk naked if they wanted to, they just can't go like that in public and i approve that for the benefit of everyone.
so basically you're saying in your country we should do as you please
and in our country we should do as you please
doesnt seem fair
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i personally wouldn't mind seeing a bimbo's ass but that's just me. unnamed getbiggers will live in private compounds where they can walk naked if they wanted to, they just can't go like that in public and i approve that for the benefit of everyone.
How do you justify this?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1874471.stm
Friday, 15 March, 2002, 12:19 GMT
Saudi police 'stopped' fire rescue
Saudi Arabia's religious police stopped schoolgirls from leaving a blazing building because they were not wearing correct Islamic dress, according to Saudi newspapers.
In a rare criticism of the kingdom's powerful "mutaween" police, the Saudi media has accused them of hindering attempts to save 15 girls who died in the fire on Monday.
About 800 pupils were inside the school in the holy city of Mecca when the tragedy occurred.
15 girls died in the blaze and more than 50 others were injured
According to the al-Eqtisadiah daily, firemen confronted police after they tried to keep the girls inside because they were not wearing the headscarves and abayas (black robes) required by the kingdom's strict interpretation of Islam.
One witness said he saw three policemen "beating young girls to prevent them from leaving the school because they were not wearing the abaya".
The Saudi Gazette quoted witnesses as saying that the police - known as the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice - had stopped men who tried to help the girls and warned "it is a sinful to approach them".
The father of one of the dead girls said that the school watchman even refused to open the gates to let the girls out.
"Lives could have been saved had they not been stopped by members of the Commission for Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice," the newspaper concluded.
Relatives' anger
Families of the victims have been incensed over the deaths.
Most of the victims were crushed in a stampede as they tried to flee the blaze.
The school was locked at the time of the fire - a usual practice to ensure full segregation of the sexes.
The religious police are widely feared in Saudi Arabia. They roam the streets enforcing dress codes and sex segregation, and ensuring prayers are performed on time.
Those who refuse to obey their orders are often beaten and sometimes put in jail.
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I have a problem with nuns and EVERY STUPID Religion, such as yours, which does nothing but suppress rational thought, hinder Science, progress and mistreat, belittle and dehumanize women for no other reason other than male arrogance and a fictitious belief in a sky god.
how does Islam hinder Science and thoughts when in fact the first word in the Quran is "Read", and dehumanizing women is a western myth. when did Muslims rule half the world and flourish in ever field? it's when they took the right teachings of the religion
Your religion along with Christianity and Judaism are responsible for the most death and human suffering ever carried out on this tiny planet. Your religion especially is at the forefront of this ridiculous calamity.
not really, numbers don't tell anything. look at world war II
Your culture and religion`s treatment of women and their suppression of freedom is appalling. With beliefs fueled by Sharia Law and a culture based on pure ignorance, a death cult and a poor understanding of the Universe and basic world facts, I cannot do anything else but condemn you and every single person who contributes to the debilitation of mankind. Lets face it, that is ALL you and your culture and religion are doing.
care to give examples, your accusations are too general.
You drive a Ferrari but think the world is only 6000 years old and then subject your women to mental and physical torture. And some how you are okay with this gross disparity of sexism and male dominated barbarism.
where does it say that the world is 6000 years old??, Noah was said to have lived more than a thousand years.
It gives me nothing but a sour taste in my mouth and can only hope that your culture NEVER is imported by anyone else or exported beyond the walled ignorance of your sand castle dictatorship known as Saudi Arabia.
never mistake the sad mental state of the Arabs with Islam, the two are not to be linked
Christianity is horrible and oppressive enough, the last thing we or anyone else needs is a competing dogma for the same fairy tale and affectation of a Universal Sky God with differing prophet zombies and the ensuing war you both wish to fight over such utter nonsense.
Destroy yourselves somewhere else. Please.
a bit harsh no?
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so basically you're saying in your country we should do as you please
and in our country we should do as you please
doesnt seem fair
simple, i'm asking you to be decent and wondering why you would'nt let me be decent.
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simple, i'm asking you to be decent and wondering why you would'nt let me be decent.
actually, you're trying to impose your definition of decency on me.
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How do you justify this?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1874471.stm
Friday, 15 March, 2002, 12:19 GMT
Saudi police 'stopped' fire rescue
Saudi Arabia's religious police stopped schoolgirls from leaving a blazing building because they were not wearing correct Islamic dress, according to Saudi newspapers.
In a rare criticism of the kingdom's powerful "mutaween" police, the Saudi media has accused them of hindering attempts to save 15 girls who died in the fire on Monday.
About 800 pupils were inside the school in the holy city of Mecca when the tragedy occurred.
15 girls died in the blaze and more than 50 others were injured
According to the al-Eqtisadiah daily, firemen confronted police after they tried to keep the girls inside because they were not wearing the headscarves and abayas (black robes) required by the kingdom's strict interpretation of Islam.
One witness said he saw three policemen "beating young girls to prevent them from leaving the school because they were not wearing the abaya".
The Saudi Gazette quoted witnesses as saying that the police - known as the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice - had stopped men who tried to help the girls and warned "it is a sinful to approach them".
The father of one of the dead girls said that the school watchman even refused to open the gates to let the girls out.
"Lives could have been saved had they not been stopped by members of the Commission for Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice," the newspaper concluded.
Relatives' anger
Families of the victims have been incensed over the deaths.
Most of the victims were crushed in a stampede as they tried to flee the blaze.
The school was locked at the time of the fire - a usual practice to ensure full segregation of the sexes.
The religious police are widely feared in Saudi Arabia. They roam the streets enforcing dress codes and sex segregation, and ensuring prayers are performed on time.
Those who refuse to obey their orders are often beaten and sometimes put in jail.
that was in 2002, this was a sad case of ignorancy and caused disbelief from everyone. they were punished for what they've done and they got fired from their jobs.
male doctors have no problem treating a female, so why would a firefighter not be allowed to rescue one.
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actually, you're trying to impose your definition of decency on me.
are you trying to say that a covered woman is not more decent than a girl covering just her nipples and crack?
only a 17 year old boy would find that logical.
and btw i find your definition of nudity as a laughing matter. a girl covering her nipple with a patch is okay, god forbid she shows just the nipple and she becomes naked?
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are you trying to say that a covered woman is not more decent than a girl covering just her nipples and crack?
only a 17 year old boy would find that logical.
and btw i find your definition of nudity as a laughing matter. a girl covering her nipple with a patch is okay, god forbid she shows just the nipple and she becomes naked?
permitting a woman to wear what she pleases is more decent to me than requiring her to wear something.
also, i don't come to KSA and mock you for the ridiculous things that happen in your country
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Discussions like these are many and all eventually become tedious and long. The bottom line is everyone has their own way of thinking what is wrong and what is right.
Even taking time out to answer is really only fuelling the fire and this never ending debate of ‘organized religion’ will never end.
The Article:
The buqini is a swim suit. To claim it is being banned due to health reasons because it is worn on the streets is preposterous. It is worn in a pool ONLY. Not on the streets.
Adapting to ones civilization:
It is completely fair to argue: when in Rome do as Romans do.
However, when has it become western law to HAVE to bare skin? The woman is wearing a burqini the equivalent to a WET SUIT.
Yes, women have fought for years to become independent. So let them wear whatever the hell they want to at the beach or in the pool. To say one HAS to wear a bikini is simply being exactly what you claim others are:close minded.
Everyone is ready to point a finger at the Middle East for being a dictatorship, but aren't the men here dictating what women should or should not wear? What happened to her freedom of choice?!
permitting a woman to wear what she pleases is more decent to me than requiring her to wear something.
Thank you M_Valencia. My point exactly.
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Should I remind you that Toronto (the town that took you in) was the hometown of cheering muslims, jubilating and joy crying when 9/11 occured?
Quite a "country" you have up there... ::) ::) ::)
There were no cheering muslims, jubilating and joy crying in Toronto when 911 occurred. Everyone was shocked & saddened.
There were however happy zionists who felt this was a catalyst that would provide Israel a greater freedom to apply even more force against her enemies. And as we all know, ...there were those Israeli "movers" in NY who were infact cheering.
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(http://hotlineoncall.nationaljournal.com/nuns.jpg)
if a woman by her own free will decides to cover her hair or body then so be it. why would anyone have a problem with that?. in a world that lacks decency where people tend to force you to see what you may not want to see, i find this to be crazy.
I agree with this statement, as well as M_Valencia's when he said "permitting a woman to wear what she pleases is more decent to me than requiring her to wear something." That's why I think this French move is about power & control.
One woman's hell is another woman's paradise, ...and as difficult as our western sensibility is at accepting it,
some women really DO embrace the burka and consider it extremely liberating. I think that in a Western society that prides itself on individual freedoms, those who want to wear the burka, should be allowed to, and those who want to shed it, should also be allowed to do so.
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permitting a woman to wear what she pleases is more decent to me than requiring her to wear something.
Thank you M_Valencia. My point exactly.
your point is more that the French should not be allowed to require "skin tight" but that KSA can require "burqa" ... as far as I'm concerned, neither party has much of a leg to stand on.
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I have a problem with nuns and EVERY STUPID Religion, such as yours, which does nothing but suppress rational thought, hinder Science, progress and mistreat, belittle and dehumanize women for no other reason other than male arrogance and a fictitious belief in a sky god.
Your religion along with Christianity and Judaism are responsible for the most death and human suffering ever carried out on this tiny planet. Your religion especially is at the forefront of this ridiculous calamity.
Your culture and religion`s treatment of women and their suppression of freedom is appalling. With beliefs fueled by Sharia Law and a culture based on pure ignorance, a death cult and a poor understanding of the Universe and basic world facts, I cannot do anything else but condemn you and every single person who contributes to the debilitation of mankind. Lets face it, that is ALL you and your culture and religion are doing.
You drive a Ferrari but think the world is only 6000 years old and then subject your women to mental and physical torture. And some how you are okay with this gross disparity of sexism and male dominated barbarism.
It gives me nothing but a sour taste in my mouth and can only hope that your culture NEVER is imported by anyone else or exported beyond the walled ignorance of your sand castle dictatorship known as Saudi Arabia.
Christianity is horrible and oppressive enough, the last thing we or anyone else needs is a competing dogma for the same fairy tale and affectation of a Universal Sky God with differing prophet zombies and the ensuing war you both wish to fight over such utter nonsense.
Destroy yourselves somewhere else. Please.
Far and away the post of the year.
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Every time I hear people say the Muslims never invented anything, I have to laugh.
Can you imagine where we would be without the suicide vest and IED?
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Every time I hear people say the Muslims never invented anything, I have to laugh.
Can you imagine where we would be without the suicide vest and IED?
As much as people like to disparage Muslim culture... understand the Islam of today, ...is not the same as that of yesteryear. The world does owe an incredible debt of gratitude towards Islam. Without Islamic culture, ...we would not be who we are today. Unfortunately, like any great civilization or empire that has fallen, it's message and meaning gets lost, and distorted from the passage of time, and the deliberate eradication of it's culture by the victors of war. Islamic culture and the fall of it's empire, gave birth to Europe's renaissance. Today, modern Islam finds itself trying to reclaim it's former glory, but it must rely only on it's past... a distant past whose records have been kept by those who could be considered not the most sophisticated. No wonder their ideas and customs appear so backwards to those of us in the west.
What many of us see as representative of islamic culture (ie: suicide bombers and IED's) are infact representative only of fringe lunacy, assets financed & fortified by machiavellian wickedness. They are about as representative of muslim or islamic culture as members of the Westboro Baptist church are representatives of Christianity.
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As much as people like to disparage Muslim culture... understand the Islam of today, ...is not the same as that of yesteryear. The world does owe an incredible debt of gratitude towards Islam. Without Islamic culture, ...we would not be who we are today. Unfortunately, like any great civilization or empire that has fallen, it's message and meaning gets lost, and distorted from the passage of time, and the deliberate eradication of it's culture by the victors of war. Islamic culture and the fall of it's empire, gave birth to Europe's renaissance. Today, modern Islam finds itself trying to reclaim it's former glory, but it must rely only on it's past... a distant past whose records have been kept by those who could be considered not the most sophisticated. No wonder their ideas and customs appear so backwards to those of us in the west.
What many of us see as representative of islamic culture (ie: suicide bombers and IED's) are infact representative only of fringe lunacy, assets financed & fortified by machiavellian wickedness. They are about as representative of muslim or islamic culture as members of the Westboro Baptist church are representatives of Christianity.
quoted for innacuracy
have you ever lived in an Islamic country?
How many innocnet people have the Westroboro Baptist Church murdered in the past year?
You are substituting logic in the quest of fairness, but only lying to yourself.
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quoted for innacuracy
have you ever lived in an Islamic country?
no
How many innocnet people have the Westroboro Baptist Church murdered in the past year?
You are substituting logic in the quest of fairness, but only lying to yourself.
possibly :-\
...but Islamic culture produced great societies and technological advances we still use today,
...and I refuse to believe their only contributions to civilization are suicide vests & IEDs.
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no
possibly :-\
...but Islamic culture produced great societies and technological advances we still use today,
...and I refuse to believe their only contributions to civilization are suicide vests & IEDs.
Actually, you're right. They invented the concept of throwing acid in women's faces for not wearing a burqa and beating women for showing their ankles. Forgot about those two.
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Actually, you're right. They invented the concept of throwing acid in women's faces for not wearing a burqa and beating women for showing their ankles. Forgot about those two.
brat! >:(
Are you sure you're refering to historic Islamic culture... or a perverse interpretation of it by an ignorant peasant still living in the patriarchal chauvanistic, sadistic, stone ages?
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...but Islamic culture produced great societies and technological advances we still use today,
Will you list some of the great societies and technological advances you're talking about
Also jaguar, are you muslim?
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Will you list some of the great societies and technological advances you're talking about
Also jaguar, are you muslim?
No, I'm not a muslim.
As for technological advancements... whoa... where do I start? The list is incredible....
Arabic numerals
Our modern numerical system for one. Our adaption of arabic numerals may seem like a trivial thing, but it's introduction facilitated calculations much faster & and much more efficiently than Roman numerals. Just imagine for a moment the difference as well as the ease and the efficiency of calculating Arabic numerals to the more cumbersome Roman numerals for advanced mathematics.
Astronomy
Islamic scholars charted the stars, as well as created instruments to measure the distances between stars relative to the earths rotation. Islam knew the earth rotated around the sun, long before Copernicus dared utter such "heresy"
Navigation
see Astronomy above
Medicine
Islamic doctors developed medical instruments for delicate surgeries, some of which are still in use today in paediatrics to neurosurgery. While they performed delicate neurosurgery with anesthesia, ...there European contemporaries were relying on leeches & exorcisms, and amputations without anesthesia.
Architecture
Some of the greatest architecture was built by Islam. The remarkable thing about many of these erections, is not so much in the monumental scope of them, ...but rather the absolute perfect symmetry they incorporated into their designs. A good example of that can be found in the Al Hambra <sp?> in Spain. Some could even say Islam was first to develop the concept of Feng Shui. ;) Only now are we beginning to recognize the importance & validity of symmetry, as more than an aesthetic, but something having an impact on the life force of those who dwell therein. Those who have had the pleasure of visiting Al hambra, are immediately struck by the overwhelming sense of peace & tranquility that overcomes them upon entering. It is due to the absolute perfect symmetry with which the castle was built... a concept not lost on later renaissance architects like Vitruvious or daVinci.
After the conquest of Islam, much of it's knowledge was disseminated throughout the rest of Europe giving birth to the renaissance.
Street Lights
Modern Islamic cities (at the time) were clean, paved, had street lights, while europeans still lived in squalor in huts
Textiles
Islamic societies produced some of the finest linens available. Interestingly enough, ...and most would have a conniption fit if they knew, ...but most of those robes we see many Christian saints portrayed in, bear Islamic mantras & slogans pertaining to Islam. Catholics would freak if it were more widely known that on those portrait of the Madonna, the ribbons around the hood and sleeves of her cloak bear the saying "There is only one God, ...and Allah is his name."
Irrigation
Unlike previous great civilizations of Africa which had the Nile, as a desert people, Islam had no such benefit. The challenges of irrigation of fields to my knowledge was first solved by Islam. water turbines etc., etc.,
Distillation
The distillation of alcohol, and well as flower essences was first invented by Islam.
Pottery glazing
Modern glazed pottery was brought to us by Islam.
Explosives
Torpedos were first developed by Islam.
Kites
What we know as a children's toy, was once developed by Islamic culture as a weapon of war.
This is just random off the top of my head, ...but the list is vast, and absolutely amazing! it would blow your mind.
Islam reverred knowledge, and sought to acquire knowledge. While Islam was building universities & higher institutions of learning, churning out scholars, intellectuals, and inventors en masse, ...Christianity was preaching and encouraging ignorance as a means of maintaining control over it's people. Higher knowledge was discouraged and viewed as a potential threat to the Catholic church. as a result, there grew and remained a HUGE gap of knowledge between the two which only widened over the centuries.
For centuries, Islam was the political and intellectual power of Europe. With their defeat, came the inevitable attempts at erasure from history, and the plagiarism of their cultural, political, intellectual, & scientific contributions to society. Her influence can still be seen, felt and heard throughout many parts of Europe however, for those who know what they're looking at... from the cathedrals (former mosques) ...to the windmills of Holland, ...to the flamenco music of Spain. Islam and her influence is there in abundance.
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Use of planes full of civilians, with lots of fuel, to be flown into buildings full of civilians.
They invented that, too.
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Maybe we should recreate the cultural values of the people who invented the wheel.
Bet they had a lot of progressive thinking going on.
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Use of planes full of civilians, with lots of fuel, to be flown into buildings full of civilians.
They invented that, too.
Actually that precedent was set by Japanese Kamikaze airmen (minus the civs in the plane)
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Actually that precedent was set by Japanese Kamikaze airmen (minus the civs in the plane)
Yeah, there's no difference. Good point.
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Also, Muslims were the first to use children to more effectively penetrate with their car bombs.
Let's not forget about that contribution.
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Also, Muslims were the first to use children to more effectively penetrate with their car bombs.
Let's not forget about that contribution.
Not sure what the religious faith of the first inhabitants of the planet were, ...but i think it's a safe bet to say that the use of children as a weapon, ...was first invented by a woman. (I'm trying to get on Tu's good side) :P
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This is just random off the top of my head, ...but the list is vast, and absolutely amazing! it would blow your mind.
Islam reverred knowledge, and sought to acquire knowledge. While Islam was building universities & higher institutions of learning, churning out scholars, intellectuals, and inventors en masse, ...Christianity was preaching and encouraging ignorance as a means of maintaining control over it's people. Higher knowledge was discouraged and viewed as a potential threat to the Catholic church. as a result, there grew and remained a HUGE gap of knowledge between the two which only widened over the centuries.
For centuries, Islam was the political and intellectual power of Europe. With their defeat, came the inevitable attempts at erasure from history, and the plagiarism of their cultural, political, intellectual, & scientific contributions to society. Her influence can still be seen, felt and heard throughout many parts of Europe however, for those who know what they're looking at... from the cathedrals (former mosques) ...to the windmills of Holland, ...to the flamenco music of Spain. Islam and her influence is there in abundance.
i'll take your word for all that stuff you listed.
can you explain why you think *islam* gave us those things as opposed to people that happened to be muslim?
interesting that you know it off the top of your head and seem to have a deep respect for islam and disdain for christianity but are not muslim yourself.
is your jaguar enterprises company the one with islamic ties?
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OK- I have been consciously avoiding Jaguars stupidity this entire thread, but this takes the cake and I can no longer allow her to spread this nonsensical hogwash about Islam.
First of all, Islam is a religion which depends on keeping its adherents stupid and ignorant. While there are hundreds of examples, here is one- Why is the Koran almost exclusively printed in Arabic when less than 20% of Muslims can speak or read Arabic?
Second of all, your half baked observation about the Catholic Church trying to control its adherents rings true for every major religion since the beginning of time, especially Islam- which to this very day is a virus which infects entire countries throughout the world with honor killings, female circumsions, televised be headings, maiming for stealing, rape victims are beaten for speaking to their attackers and a grip of fear and degradation keeps the Muslim masses poor, stupid and in fear.
Lastly, your equally asinine observations about Muslim influence across Europe are vastly overstated at best and at worst disingenious. When the Muslims overtook Europe and raped, pillaged and killed everything in their path-- yes, some remnants of their reign of terror of the region was left in tact. But Flamenco music and Windmills in Holland? Are you on drugs or just a complete fucking idiot?
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Get the fuck out of the past with this Muslims brought knowledge to the world bullshit and get in the present day. Nine Muslims have won Nobel Prizes (one of them being Yasser Arafat and I mean, really?). Nine. And of those nine, the majority of them have conducted their research in western countries. Islam is a virus, a disease and a plague on humanity. It brings nothing of value to the table. Well, unless you consider stonings, mass murder, terrorism, beheadings, gang rapes, the jizyah, slavery and a host of other things "positive".
I mean, stoning a 13 year old girl to death in front of 1,000 spectators for reporting that she was gang raped is REALLY positive! ::)
The overarching goal of Islam is to establish an Islamic caliphate across the entire planet where Sharia Law reigns supreme.
And why the fuck should the west be tolerant? Because we're more advanced? Try going to Saudi Arabia and handing out a bible or building a church/synagogue. Or asking to kiss your wife in public. You'll wind up with getting your head chopped off in front of 1,000 cheering spectators.
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There is of course, a solution here...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6793574.ece
France’s struggle with Islamic dress has moved into the swimming pool after a 35-year-old woman was banned from bathing in her “burkini”, a head-to-toe swimsuit.
The woman, identified only as Carole, was making her third outing in a burkini to the town pool at Emerainville, on the eastern outskirts of Paris, when the chief lifeguard ordered her to leave.
She was said to be breaking hygiene rules, but her ejection has become the latest episode in a battle between fundamentalist Muslims and a state that has banned head-cover from schools and may curb face-covering in public.
Carole accused the pool officials of illegal discrimination and went straight to the police and the media. “Quite simply, this is segregation,” she said. “I will fight to try to change things. And if I see that the battle is lost, I cannot rule out leaving France.”
That's it then, if she can't wear her Burkini - she's going to fuck off to Afghanistan. ::) I'll chip in for her ticket, anyone else ?
The Woman's a fucking publicity seeking idiot.
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OK- I have been consciously avoiding Jaguars stupidity this entire thread, but this takes the cake and I can no longer allow her to spread this nonsensical hogwash about Islam.
First of all, Islam is a religion which depends on keeping its adherents stupid and ignorant. While there are hundreds of examples, here is one- Why is the Koran almost exclusively printed in Arabic when less than 20% of Muslims can speak or read Arabic?
Second of all, your half baked observation about the Catholic Church trying to control its adherents rings true for every major religion since the beginning of time, especially Islam- which to this very day is a virus which infects entire countries throughout the world with honor killings, female circumsions, televised be headings, maiming for stealing, rape victims are beaten for speaking to their attackers and a grip of fear and degradation keeps the Muslim masses poor, stupid and in fear.
Lastly, your equally asinine observations about Muslim influence across Europe are vastly overstated at best and at worst disingenious. When the Muslims overtook Europe and raped, pillaged and killed everything in their path-- yes, some remnants of their reign of terror of the region was left in tact. But Flamenco music and Windmills in Holland? Are you on drugs or just a complete fucking idiot?
QFT
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jaguar, what is your take on whorewell and berzerkfury's posts?
also
can you explain why you think *islam* gave us those things you listed as opposed to people that happened to be muslim?
is your jaguar enterprises company the one with islamic ties?
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Let me tell you how things are in the UK right now.
There is no longer a democracy in the UK. The legal system & 'human rights' has sidetracked the democratic system and we now effectively have minoroty rule. In fact, the rules for minorities are different from the majority.
e.g.
- Lord Chief Justice Bingham saying that gay adoption should be allowed to keep in touch with changing social attitutes. Yet, if you had a VOTE in the UK about gay adoption, it wouldn't get off the ground, so who's social valuies are we taking care of ?
- 2002, elderly preacher Harry Hammond displayed a placard saying "stop immorality, stop homosexuality, stop lesbianism". He was surrounded by 30-40 people who assaulted him. He was fined 300 pounds for provoking disorder. The people that assaulted him were not charged. Minorities allowed to break the law.
- Gypsy families brought land in chichester which did not have planning permission for a residence. They were allowed to stay there as they had the human right to raise a family. Once again, a minority allowed to breach the laws.
- A few weeks ago in Dudley. The local authorities had refused planning permission for a 'maga-mosque' in the town citing the fact that there were enough mosques in the town already and that it was changing the face of the town. The high court overrode the decision of the elected officials in the town and the project is going ahead.
France is right to make a stand here. You could go on for weeks about how the high court judges are constantly overriding the law and the will of the majority in the UK. Their role should be as impartial arbiters of the law but they are not. They are political, they are anti-majority.
Try walking down a UK street with a sign saying 'behead muslims' and see how long it is before you are arrested. Yet, muslims during the Denmark/Allah Cartoon debacle were allowed to protest in the UK with placards saying inciting violence/beheadings against pretty much any non-muslim. Who got arrested ? The white guys who tried to get the placard carriers to take their placards down.
Minority rule - alive & well in the UK.
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This is a pic of a suicide bomber strike in Kabul. It was right next to the US Embassy and ISAF headquarters.
We drive by there all the time. Usually, I see kids under ten walking around.
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i'll take your word for all that stuff you listed.
can you explain why you think *islam* gave us those things as opposed to people that happened to be muslim?
I say Islam brought those things because they came at a time when Islam ruled the world as we knew it.
Not enough records on the other pagan areas because they weren't as developed or methodical in record keeping.
The inventions & inspiration to bring these technologies came about as a result of practicing islamic principles within societies that were all islamic. It's not like there was a smorgasbord, in which case one could say inventions by someone who happened to be muslim, but the doctrine was "Above all else, seek knowledge" and so the people did, and it led to great discoveries. it came at a time when the Christian doctrin was "Do not eat from the tree of knowledge"
interesting that you know it off the top of your head and seem to have a deep respect for islam and disdain for christianity but are not muslim yourself.
I know it because with all the islamophobia over the past 8 years, I sought to discover more about them. It blew my mind what I discovered. There are a few good documentaries on it, purely from a scholarly pov and a few ancient history documentary series that include various groups and their contributions to modern civilization including (Chinese, Africans, Arabs, Romans etc)
I do not have disdain for Christianity... merely for the way it is practiced by many christians.
Its a similar disdain that patriot Americans feel for those who legislate in a decidedly unAmerican way.
I have no problem recognizing greatness or accomplishment in others. If my greatest enemy accomplished a stupendous feat, ...it wouldn't mean i love them, ...but I'd be a fool for not recognizing the breadth & scope of the accomplishment. Facts are what they are. And I can't change the facts of ancient history... no matter how much someone doesn't like them.
Besides, ...it really doesn't matter what you WERE, ...it's what you BECOME.
Every civilization has it's heyday. Look at the Anglo Europeans... at one point they were the worlds 3rd world backward ignorant peasants. Now, the worlds power structure is comprised of Anglo Europeans. Possibly soon to be displaced by Asians & South Asians (Chinese & Indians) Those that were first shall be last... and those that were last, shall come first etc. etc.
is your jaguar enterprises company the one with islamic ties?
I have no company with Islamic ties. Stop being an ass.
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OK- I have been consciously avoiding Jaguars stupidity this entire thread, but this takes the cake and I can no longer allow her to spread this nonsensical hogwash about Islam.
First of all, Islam is a religion which depends on keeping its adherents stupid and ignorant. While there are hundreds of examples, here is one- Why is the Koran almost exclusively printed in Arabic when less than 20% of Muslims can speak or read Arabic?
No expert on figures, but when you say 20%, are you talking about ALL muslims the world over, ...or simply those in Afghanistan? I'm not too sure your comment on the Koran being printed exclusively in Arabic. I know I have a copy of one in English somewhere around here.
after the destruction of the Islamic empire, many countries fell into ruin. in areas like Afghanistan that have never known peace, you can't really educate people can you? I do know that islam revers knowledge. Even in some 3rd world backwards Islamic countries. I was watching a documentary the other night on Mali in Africa. I was astounded to discover that they have a 100% literacy rate among their people.
.
Second of all, your half baked observation about the Catholic Church trying to control its adherents rings true for every major religion since the beginning of time, especially Islam- which to this very day is a virus which infects entire countries throughout the world with honor killings, female circumsions, televised be headings, maiming for stealing, rape victims are beaten for speaking to their attackers and a grip of fear and degradation keeps the Muslim masses poor, stupid and in fear.
Like I said earlier to boonasty, ...it's not so much important what you WERE, it's what you BECOME.
I recognize the Islam of today, is not the Islam of yesteryear. Many months ago I asked a muslim member here how it came about that Saudi Arabia became the seat of Islam today, because I realize that the Saudi empire might not necessarily be at a standard I would assume the Islam I discovered would want as the keeper of Islam. (not sure how to put it diplomatically) Regardless of who they are today, we cannot deny who they were years ago.
Lastly, your equally asinine observations about Muslim influence across Europe are vastly overstated at best and at worst disingenious. When the Muslims overtook Europe and raped, pillaged and killed everything in their path-- yes, some remnants of their reign of terror of the region was left in tact. But Flamenco music and Windmills in Holland? Are you on drugs or just a complete fucking idiot?
Yes, flamenco music in Spain & windmills in Holland. I am neither on drugs, nor a complete idiot. People can deny all they want, but it's there including in the blood streams of the inhabitants. Some of the best, most prominent Catholic families of Spain, have Arab muslim blood running through their veins, and not from rape or pillage, ...but from centuries of rule. Many a hasty conversion to Catholocism occured during the inquisition years. lol. One day there will be a DNA test that will get past nationality & language to reveal true ethnic roots. It'll be real interesting then that's fer sure.
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OK, fine.
What has Islam BECOME?
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I have no idea why you guys are going on about what Muslims may have discovered way back. Jesus was a carpenter, I don't see the Christians trying to claim they invented the bevel shoulder joint as a riposte to a Christian fundamentalist lobbying an abortion clinic.
This issue is about a woman, who more than likely knew the policy of the piscine in question, intentionally breaking the rules and then attempting to use the 'victim culture' prevalent in Europe (and the US isn't far off) to start complaining about her fate.
This type of behaviour is typical of Islamists. They blow themselves up and then bemoan the fate of their Palestinian brothers. The fact they grew up in Yorkshire, UK has fuck all to do with anything I guess. Let's face it - if it wasn't Palestine, it would be something else. Why don't they just fuck off & fight in Palestine ? The Islamists are attempting to overthrow Westerm culture from within & they have us all on a string with their calls of racism & human rights.
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OK, fine.
What has Islam BECOME?
There are plenty of "experts on Islamic culture" today, in this forum to give you that info.
Maybe you should ask some of them. :)
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I have no idea why you guys are going on about what Muslims may have discovered way back. Jesus was a carpenter, I don't see the Christians trying to claim they invented the bevel shoulder joint as a riposte to a Christian fundamentalist lobbying an abortion clinic.
This is how it started... by garebear insinuating a dearth of muslim achievement
Every time I hear people say the Muslims never invented anything, I have to laugh.
Can you imagine where we would be without the suicide vest and IED?
This issue is about a woman, who more than likely knew the policy of the piscine in question, intentionally breaking the rules and then attempting to use the 'victim culture' prevalent in Europe (and the US isn't far off) to start complaining about her fate.
I see your point. like I said... it completely an issue of power & control.
No one is telling her she can't wear a burquini and go swimming with her children. There are no laws against swimming in a burquini in the ocean, or building a backyard swimming pool. They're just telling her she can't do it at that particular pool. She wants to do it at that particular pool. This is all about power & control.
The Islamists are attempting to overthrow Westerm culture from within & they have us all on a string with their calls of racism & human rights.
Isn't that how all cultures are really overthrown... from within? When you conquer from outside, there's always resistance. When you conquer from within... people accept the transformation... view as evolving. lol
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This is how it started... by garebear insinuating a dearth of muslim achievement
I see your point. like I said... it completely an issue of power & control.
No one is telling her she can't wear a burquini and go swimming with her children. There are no laws against swimming in a burquini in the ocean, or building a backyard swimming pool. They're just telling her she can't do it at that particular pool. She wants to do it at that particular pool. This is all about power & control.
Isn't that how all cultures are really overthrown... from within? When you conquer from outside, there's always resistance. When you conquer from within... people accept the transformation... view as evolving. lol
I crack myself up.
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I crack myself up.
You crack me up too. You've got a sarcastic, slighty sardonic sense of humour. I like that. :)
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They just hit us at the front gate. I ran up there to help but they gave an all clear over the pa.
We've got QRF teams and they don't want us meddling around.
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They just hit us at the front gate. I ran up there to help but they gave an all clear over the pa.
We've got QRF teams and they don't want us meddling around.
What are you referring to?
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What are you referring to?
I'm stationed in Kabul. Elections are day after tomorrow. They're throwing everything at us.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090818/ap_on_re_as/as_afghanistan;_ylt=AlZjuOoTbmdtjhkRza3mPbqs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTMwcW1oY3ZwBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwODE4L2FzX2FmZ2hhbmlzdGFuBGNwb3MDNARwb3MDMQRwdANob21lX2Nva2UEc2VjA3luX2hlYWRsaW5lX2xpc3QEc2xrA2JvbWJhdHRhY2traQ--
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And that was my one thousandth post.
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And that was my one thousandth post.
may be odd to mention, but you look a lot like me lol. weird seeing that pic. Maybe my long lost twin :D
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may be odd to mention, but you look a lot like me lol. weird seeing that pic. Maybe my long lost twin :D
post a pic
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post a pic
no thanks. Last thing I want is to have my face photoshoped on all kinds of silly shit like getbiggers love to do. Curious, do you have red facial hair? Stupid questions, I know, it was just odd, like looking at a younger photo of myself. I'm blonde on top but the beard grows in red.
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no thanks. Last thing I want is to have my face photoshoped on all kinds of silly shit like getbiggers love to do. Curious, do you have red facial hair? Stupid questions, I know, it was just odd, like looking at a younger photo of myself. I'm blonde on top but the beard grows in red.
yes, red facial hair. no pics of it though
i hope someone shops my pic. that would be hillarious
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yes, red facial hair. no pics of it though
i hope someone shops my pic. that would be hillarious
lol, maybe you are my long lost twin :D no, but I bet we have similar heritage origin wise. I get way to pissed at stupid shit sometimes. Last thing I need to get into is a search and destroy over my face pasted on some gay pic. haha.
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I'm stationed in Kabul. Elections are day after tomorrow. They're throwing everything at us.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090818/ap_on_re_as/as_afghanistan;_ylt=AlZjuOoTbmdtjhkRza3mPbqs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTMwcW1oY3ZwBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwODE4L2FzX2FmZ2hhbmlzdGFuBGNwb3MDNARwb3MDMQRwdANob21lX2Nva2UEc2VjA3luX2hlYWRsaW5lX2xpc3QEc2xrA2JvbWJhdHRhY2traQ--
Good lad ! Hope they don't lob anything too close.
Do they let you wear your speedo's at the local swimming pool ?
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Good lad ! Hope they don't lob anything too close.
Do they let you wear your speedo's at the local swimming pool ?
No, but I've seen some foreign troops wearing some pretty short shorts. Must be a European thing.
I've also seen quite a few Afghan men holding hands.
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be muslim, but the doctrine was "Above all else, seek knowledge" and so the people did, and it led to great discoveries. it came at a time when the Christian doctrin was "Do not eat from the tree of knowledge"
wasn't the do not eat from the tree of knowledge from genesis? how old is islam?
I do not have disdain for Christianity... merely for the way it is practiced by many christians.
do you have disdain for the way islam is practiced by many muslims?
I say Islam brought those things because they came at a time when Islam ruled the world as we knew it.
what years are you talking about?
I have no company with Islamic ties. Stop being an ass.
why does the question make me an ass? it's a simple yes or no.
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garebear thank you stay safe. we appreciate what you are doing.
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I say Islam brought those things because they came at a time when Islam ruled the world as we knew it.
Not enough records on the other pagan areas because they weren't as developed or methodical in record keeping.
The inventions & inspiration to bring these technologies came about as a result of practicing islamic principles within societies that were all islamic. It's not like there was a smorgasbord, in which case one could say inventions by someone who happened to be muslim, but the doctrine was "Above all else, seek knowledge" and so the people did, and it led to great discoveries. it came at a time when the Christian doctrin was "Do not eat from the tree of knowledge"
I know it because with all the islamophobia over the past 8 years, I sought to discover more about them. It blew my mind what I discovered. There are a few good documentaries on it, purely from a scholarly pov and a few ancient history documentary series that include various groups and their contributions to modern civilization including (Chinese, Africans, Arabs, Romans etc)
I do not have disdain for Christianity... merely for the way it is practiced by many christians.
Its a similar disdain that patriot Americans feel for those who legislate in a decidedly unAmerican way.
I have no problem recognizing greatness or accomplishment in others. If my greatest enemy accomplished a stupendous feat, ...it wouldn't mean i love them, ...but I'd be a fool for not recognizing the breadth & scope of the accomplishment. Facts are what they are. And I can't change the facts of ancient history... no matter how much someone doesn't like them.
Besides, ...it really doesn't matter what you WERE, ...it's what you BECOME.
Every civilization has it's heyday. Look at the Anglo Europeans... at one point they were the worlds 3rd world backward ignorant peasants. Now, the worlds power structure is comprised of Anglo Europeans. Possibly soon to be displaced by Asians & South Asians (Chinese & Indians) Those that were first shall be last... and those that were last, shall come first etc. etc.
I have no company with Islamic ties. Stop being an ass.
I've never seen a post full of such lies and fallacies. STFU.
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Jag you are so mind numbingly stupid that responding to your recent posts is beneath me. Seek professional help. I know Canada will probably look at your mental disease as unnecessary care, so it may be wise to fly into the US for treatment.
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garebear thank you stay safe. we appreciate what you are doing.
Well, it's nice to be appreciated. Thanks for saying it.
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wasn't the do not eat from the tree of knowledge from genesis?
Yes it was
do you have disdain for the way islam is practiced by many muslims?
yes I do
why does the question make me an ass? it's a simple yes or no.
It was an assumptive question that deliberately implies falsehoods. Thats why it makes you an ass.
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STFU crackhead nobody gave you the right to reply on this thread.
Shut the fuck up you tubby piece of shit. You're lucky you spend all your free time parading around in your hummer out in the desert or on getbig cause if you spent any time in public you'd get your fat ass kicked! You're an annoying fuck you know that!
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no thanks. Last thing I want is to have my face photoshoped on all kinds of silly shit like getbiggers love to do. Curious, do you have red facial hair? Stupid questions, I know, it was just odd, like looking at a younger photo of myself. I'm blonde on top but the beard grows in red.
I have blonde hair and my facial hair is also almost red. Can I join the club? ???
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I have blonde hair and my facial hair is also almost red. Can I join the club? ???
You're in.
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Random pic attack.
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I can understand the standards for safety & hygiene, and I can also understand their mistaking some of the burquinis as streetwear, in that they do look rather similar, but it is still discriminatory. It's a swimsuit, ...and therefore logically would only be worn in the pool. I don't see how harmful bacteria or viruses would attach themselves if only worn in the pool. I'd think there'd be a greater risk of viral and/or bacteriological contamination by traditional swimsuits. How many people wear those in lieu of underwear on a regular basis?
It's an issue of power & control, ...pure & simple.
They don't even allow baggy surfer shorts in the pool, only form fitting suits for hygiene purposes. Tons of people probably go in that pool so it makes fucking sense. It's the pools rules, follow them and swim or don't follow them and claim racism and discrimination. It's so funny reading your dumbass post. "It's still a swimsuit! so it's discriminatory not to let her swim!", that would be correct except for the fact that it isn't and the he suit doesn't conform to the pool rules. Are you going to stand up and defend some surfer douche-bag who got kicked out because of his long baggy surfer swim shorts?
If there is another public pool that doesn't give a shit about what kind of suits people where than maybe she should go to one of those.
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I have blonde hair and my facial hair is also almost red. Can I join the club? ???
:o Wow RPF, ...you finally started growing facial hair? ...I'm so happy for you. Have you named it yet? :D :-*
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They don't even allow baggy surfer shorts in the pool, only form fitting suits for hygiene purposes. Tons of people probably go in that pool so it makes fucking sense. It's the pools rules, follow them and swim or don't follow them and claim racism and discrimination. It's so funny reading your dumbass post. "It's still a swimsuit! so it's discriminatory not to let her swim!", that would be correct except for the fact that it isn't and the he suit doesn't conform to the pool rules. Are you going to stand up and defend some surfer douche-bag who got kicked out because of his long baggy surfer swim shorts?
Heck no! Those baggy surfer shorts should be outlawed... especially when worn by men who refuse to keep their legs either cross or at the very least together. I can't tell you how many times I've been inadvertently & unintentionally flashed. It's horrible having to look at someone elses parts if you don't want to.
If there is another public pool that doesn't give a shit about what kind of suits people where than maybe she should go to one of those.
How is this not an issue of power & control? If you don't think this is about power & control, do you believe it to be about discrimination and persecution?
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Heck no! Those baggy surfer shorts should be outlawed... especially when worn by men who refuse to keep their legs either cross or at the very least together. I can't tell you how many times I've been inadvertently & unintentionally flashed. It's horrible having to look at someone elses parts if you don't want to.
How is this not an issue of power & control? If you don't think this is about power & control, do you believe it to be about discrimination and persecution?
fom Infidel by Ayaan Hirsi Ali
p. 33 ...in Somalia
The scissors went down betwenn my legs and the man cut off my inner labia and clitoris. I heard it, like a butcher snipping the fat off a piece of meat. A peircing pain shot up between my legs, indescribable, and I howled. Then came the sewing: the long, blunt needle clumsily pushed into my bleeding outer labia, my loud and anguished protests, Grandma's words of comfort and encouragement. "It's just this once in your life, Ayaan. Be brave. It's almost finished." When the sewing was finished, the man cut the thread off with his teeth.
p. 47 ... in Saudi Arabia
Some of the Saudi women in our neighboorhood were regularly beaten by their husbands. You could hear them at night. Their screams resounded across the courtyards. "No! Please! By Allah!"
from CNN News, in Afghanistan http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/01/22/acid.attacks/index.html
"We saw two men up ahead staring at us. One was standing off and the other one was on their motorcycle. I wanted to go but there was a black object in his hand and he took it out," Atifa says.
The girls thought it was a water pistol.
"He grabbed my arm and asked, 'Will you be going to school anymore?' He then threw acid on my sister and threw acid on me," Shamsia says.
--------------------------------------------
I have shown you how women have been treated in three different Islamic nations. I think this is a fair representation of a broad spectrum.
How do you call yourself a woman and defend this? I don't understand it. These are not I solated incidents. Surely you can see that. Why should we give quarter to any group of people that treats women like this? Personally, I have too much respect for the female gender. I guess it's how we're different.
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How is this not an issue of power & control? If you don't think this is about power & control, do you believe it to be about discrimination and persecution?
I'll bite. It's a public pool that has the power to set the rules and control its environment. If they have a rule against ANY sort of baggy swim wear being worn in the pool, than they are right to not allow the Muslim woman into the pool and they also have the right to not let anyone else into the pool who is wearing baggy clothing.
It just so happens that the person who was wearing baggy swim wear was Muslim. Tough shit. Although that apparently makes it much easier to cry wolf and stir up shit where there isn't any.
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How is this not an issue of power & control? If you don't think this is about power & control, do you believe it to be about discrimination and persecution?
Indeed but you seem to be confusing who's trying to assert control & seize power.
The mode of the European Muslim is to start a problem, then claim to be a victim, usually with a claim that their human rights are being abused. Even when they put bombs on London transport, it was because of Palestine. So they blow up innocent people but they are the victims because of something occuring elsewhere. They even claimed to be the victims of these attacks because people immediately blamed Muslims for them... how's that for arse-about face logic ?
They march the streets waving placards for beheading because of a cartoon in Denmark. See the irony - they are attacking our freedom of speech over a cartoon that was not even a direct attack on Allah when read in the context of the article it was attached to. They go to the streets, burn cars, lob bricks, call for beheadings & THEY are the VICTIMS ? Give me a fucking break.
Now, the Europeans are nothing better than a bunch of apologists. London is a breeding ground for Islamic terrorism as are other British Cities and the police, government et al turn a blind eye because heaven forbid they arrest an Imam for preaching hate & violence - that would be racist. In fact - outside of the Arab world, London is THE most important city for Islamists in the world.
Police in England don't use dogs when they raid a Muslims home & they try not to raid at prayer times - because they don't want to offend the Muslims, even if they are criminals. Even today, a Muslim terrorist who committed mass murder in the UK was returned to his home as a sign of compassion as we are such a compassionate country. Strange then that the Krays didn't get released when they were old & frail - but they weren't Muslims.
This Burkini incident was well planned and executed and now people like you are trying to claim she is persecuted. Pretty soon, all women will have to wear Burkini's so as not to offend the Muslims. I guess those that don't will probably be dragged to the new 'rape-rooms' they are installing for Muslim men to rape Kuffar women for showing a bit of neck.
The majority of Muslims think westerners are morally inferior. The majority of Muslims and their leaders are NOT speaking out against terrorism or the chipping away at western society with crass publicity seeking attempts like this.
The majority of Muslims ARE supporting the eradication of Western values. They are supporting Terrorism either passively or actively.
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Well said Pedro.
What I cant fathom is why left wingers, who are supposedly so in favor of freedom of speech, expression and the uniform application of supposedly universal humanistic ideals such as dignity and equality, go out of their way to defend a religion that is predicated on violence, the degradation of women and the supression of freedom.
If blacks were brainwashed into a religion that required them to walk around with nuces around their necks and that allowed whites to whip them in public, would you be fighting for the rights of those braindead blacks to be abused-- all while promoting the idea of religious freedom?
Suppose a public swimming pool didnt allow blacks to get into pools wearing nuces, or did not allow them to be whipped while hanging out by the diving board-- Is that the government exerting power over a religious minority?
My absurd comparison is perfectly applicable to this situation.
One of my all time favorite quotes= "When you are merciful to the wicked, you end up being wicked to the merciful."
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Indeed but you seem to be confusing who's trying to assert control & seize power.
The mode of the European Muslim is to start a problem, then claim to be a victim, usually with a claim that their human rights are being abused. Even when they put bombs on London transport, it was because of Palestine. So they blow up innocent people but they are the victims because of something occuring elsewhere. They even claimed to be the victims of these attacks because people immediately blamed Muslims for them... how's that for arse-about face logic ?
They march the streets waving placards for beheading because of a cartoon in Denmark. See the irony - they are attacking our freedom of speech over a cartoon that was not even a direct attack on Allah when read in the context of the article it was attached to. They go to the streets, burn cars, lob bricks, call for beheadings & THEY are the VICTIMS ? Give me a fucking break.
Now, the Europeans are nothing better than a bunch of apologists. London is a breeding ground for Islamic terrorism as are other British Cities and the police, government et al turn a blind eye because heaven forbid they arrest an Imam for preaching hate & violence - that would be racist. In fact - outside of the Arab world, London is THE most important city for Islamists in the world.
Police in England don't use dogs when they raid a Muslims home & they try not to raid at prayer times - because they don't want to offend the Muslims, even if they are criminals. Even today, a Muslim terrorist who committed mass murder in the UK was returned to his home as a sign of compassion as we are such a compassionate country. Strange then that the Krays didn't get released when they were old & frail - but they weren't Muslims.
This Burkini incident was well planned and executed and now people like you are trying to claim she is persecuted. Pretty soon, all women will have to wear Burkini's so as not to offend the Muslims. I guess those that don't will probably be dragged to the new 'rape-rooms' they are installing for Muslim men to rape Kuffar women for showing a bit of neck.
The majority of Muslims think westerners are morally inferior. The majority of Muslims and their leaders are NOT speaking out against terrorism or the chipping away at western society with crass publicity seeking attempts like this.
The majority of Muslims ARE supporting the eradication of Western values. They are supporting Terrorism either passively or actively.
Excellent post. And for what it's worth, polling in Europe shows that over 50% of Muslims there feel that Western society needs to be eradicated and that Sharia Law should be implemented. These people are a plague.
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<snipped so I don't vomit all over my keyboard having to re-read that>
You might want to edt your post with a big bold viewer discretion warning for graphic details. :-\
I have shown you how women have been treated in three different Islamic nations. I think this is a fair representation of a broad spectrum.
How do you call yourself a woman and defend this? I don't understand it. These are not I solated incidents. Surely you can see that. Why should we give quarter to any group of people that treats women like this? Personally, I have too much respect for the female gender. I guess it's how we're different.
I DO NOT defend that.
Acknowledging, or witnessing, or recognizing (whatever you want to call it) great achievement does not imply support for crimes or other abominations. I do not believe in circumcism... male or female. Because of this, ...am i now supposed to condemn Jews and spread anti-semitic vitriol? While I may not agree with circumcision (male genital mutilation on tiny, vulnerable, defenseless babies) it would in no way diminish great Jewish accomplishments either. The facts would still remain facts no matter how much anyone attempted to diminish or dismiss them. Einstein would still have been the one to bring us the theory of relativity, King Solomon would still have been the richest man, Moses would still have been the one who parted the Red sea and delivered the 10 commandments, ...despite how much I hate circumcism. Do you really think I would support the idea of a woman being nothing more than chattel to her husband?
It's kind of like the robber MB_22 posted about a while back. That guy from Italy who robbed a supposedly uncrackable vault in the diamond district in Europe. No one condones thievery, ...but at the same time, you can't help but deny the man accomplished a tremendous feat. He got past a security system thought impregnable. No matter how much you wish it was otherwise, it doesn't change the fact that he got into the vault and made off with the diamonds, ...and after having spent a few yrs behind bars, ...will be free to spend his share of the $80 million dollar take... or however much it was.
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I'll bite. It's a public pool that has the power to set the rules and control its environment. If they have a rule against ANY sort of baggy swim wear being worn in the pool, than they are right to not allow the Muslim woman into the pool and they also have the right to not let anyone else into the pool who is wearing baggy clothing.
It just so happens that the person who was wearing baggy swim wear was Muslim. Tough shit. Although that apparently makes it much easier to cry wolf and stir up shit where there isn't any.
So you've finally figured it out have you? Well it's about damned time you did! {lol}
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Indeed but you seem to be confusing who's trying to assert control & seize power.
First off Pedro, ...one does NOT assert control & seize power. One seizes control & asserts power.
The swimming pool has the control of it's own pool , as well as the power to make rules for it, and is asserting it.
The pool has the power & control, ...and the woman attempting to swim in the burquini wants it.
They are telling her she can't have it. It is an issue of power & control. How am I wrong or mistaking the situation?
<hateful redundant diatribe snipped for the sake of my sanity>
The majority of Muslims think westerners are morally inferior.
They're right. We Westerners ARE morally inferior. We know right from wrong, ...but we do the wrong thing just the same. The only good thing we can saw is that while we're morally inferior, ...at least we don't have a moral disconnect. Alot of those guys over in Afghanistan would never think of doing something immoral, ...but they have such a moral disconnect, they don't even have the first clue that much of what they do is immoral. I'd rather be morally inferior than have a moral disconnect like them... if that makes any sense to anyone.
The majority of Muslims and their leaders are NOT speaking out against terrorism or the chipping away at western society with crass publicity seeking attempts like this.
Crass publicity seeking attempts like this do NOT chip away at Western society. Ignorance, Arrogance & Hubris does. Last time I checked, most of that came from within.
The majority of Muslims ARE supporting the eradication of Western values. They are supporting Terrorism either passively or actively.
Not sure I agree with that comment. I don't see things in such stark contrast. For me, there are many shades of grey. It could be a Canadian thing. Canadian society is relatively unique I'm told, ...however, the "majority" of muslims I encounter here in Canada, aren't the crazy whackjobs you seem to be going on about, or the kind that Garebear and our troops have to fight against over in Afghanistan. They're more like Toxie, trying their best to enjoy their lives and the freedoms living in a Western culture affords them, ...and doing their darndest dealing with the parental pressure to have an arranged marriage. lol
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First off Pedro, ...one does NOT assert control & seize power. One seizes control & asserts power.
The swimming pool has the control of it's own pool , as well as the power to make rules for it, and is asserting it.
The pool has the power & control, ...and the woman attempting to swim in the burquini wants it.
They are telling her she can't have it. It is an issue of power & control. How am I wrong or mistaking the situation?
<hateful redundant diatribe snipped for the sake of my sanity>
They're right. We Westerners ARE morally inferior. We know right from wrong, ...but we do the wrong thing just the same. The only good thing we can saw is that while we're morally inferior, ...at least we don't have a moral disconnect. Alot of those guys over in Afghanistan would never think of doing something immoral, ...but they have such a moral disconnect, they don't even have the first clue that much of what they do is immoral. I'd rather be morally inferior than have a moral disconnect like them... if that makes any sense to anyone.
Crass publicity seeking attempts like this do NOT chip away at Western society. Ignorance, Arrogance & Hubris does. Last time I checked, most of that came from within.
Not sure I agree with that comment. I don't see things in such stark contrast. For me, there are many shades of grey. It could be a Canadian thing. Canadian society is relatively unique I'm told, ...however, the "majority" of muslims I encounter here in Canada, aren't the crazy whackjobs you seem to be going on about, or the kind that Garebear and our troops have to fight against over in Afghanistan. They're more like Toxie, trying their best to enjoy their lives and the freedoms living in a Western culture affords them, ...and doing their darndest dealing with the parental pressure to have an arranged marriage. lol
^ I nominate this as the dumbest posting I have ever read in the 5 years since I have been a getbig member. Do the aye's have it?
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First off Pedro, ...one does NOT assert control & seize power. One seizes control & asserts power.
The swimming pool has the control of it's own pool , as well as the power to make rules for it, and is asserting it.
The pool has the power & control, ...and the woman attempting to swim in the burquini wants it.
They are telling her she can't have it. It is an issue of power & control. How am I wrong or mistaking the situation?
This is not a semantical argument. Attempting to turn it into one is a poor substitute for debate.
This is France, France has grown up and has it's own culture and set of rules. A swimming pool can apply whatever rules it sees fit for the benefit of the health of it's filtration system and it's patrons. Let us consider how many years France has had freedom and swimming pools (many) let us consider how many years the Burkini has been in existence (few). This swimming pool has not changed any rules, it is operating as it has done for years. It is the norm there & accepted by all. There have been no cases in the press of guys in surf shorts getting thrown out of the pool, no cases of hindu's in turbans being thrown out of this pool. Is this because it never happened OR is it because the surfers/hindus accepted the rules of the land and either changed or exited the pool ? I think you know which.
Now -let's examine this case. The Burkini s a very new invention. The woman in question not only got asked to leave the pool, she also went to the press AND threatened to leave the country. If you cannot see this for what it is, then you are either being argumentative for the sake of it or you are espousing irrational liberal views.
Now - to put this in perspective, I lived in Yatsuo Village, about 30k from Toyama City, on the North coast of Japan. I lived there in a small 1 bedroom appartment for 6 months. I was the only westerner in that village. There was not a single other white OR English speaking person there. When I went to the pool there, they made me wear a swimming cap AND made me get out of the pool every 30 minutes to rest. Neither of these were necessary but I went with the flow as opposed to attempting to override the majority that were clearly used to swimming that way. I did not go to the press and I did not threaten to leave the country. I did however, learn a lot about accepting the culture of the host country.
It is quite simple, if you live in a country with a culture that is very different from your own, it is like swimming in a river. First you try to swim against the current but it is a painful experience and you get nowhere. In the end you adapt to the norms of that culture and are rewarded with an experience and understanding that cannot be put into words. The Muslims should give this a go.
They're right. We Westerners ARE morally inferior. We know right from wrong, ...but we do the wrong thing just the same. The only good thing we can saw is that while we're morally inferior, ...at least we don't have a moral disconnect. Alot of those guys over in Afghanistan would never think of doing something immoral, ...but they have such a moral disconnect, they don't even have the first clue that much of what they do is immoral. I'd rather be morally inferior than have a moral disconnect like them... if that makes any sense to anyone.
Tell you what - go out now & buy "Burned Alive" by Souad. This is the first hand account of a muslim woman in the West Bank. Her mother had 14 children just under half of which were smothered after birth because they were female. Forget the beatings she had all her life. Forget the time her parents left the house and her brother strangled her sister - for smearing the families name. The girl in question couldn't get married because her older, fatter sister had to marry first & no-one wanted her. A local man who was interested in her and has asked for her hand in marriage couldn't have her because of this. To cut a long story short, she had sex with this man and fell pregnant. When they found out, her family arranged for her brother in law to come around & murder her. He sprayed her with gasoline and set light to her. She 'fortunately' ended up in hospital. The staff there wouldn't help her because she was 'Charmuta'. Her mother came around and persuaded her that this was causing the family a lot of stress and gave her some poison to drink. Fortunately someone came by and stopped this just as she had the glass to her lips. In the end, a European aid worker saw her & had her rescued as the hospital was not treating her, feeding her or giving her water. She now lives in France and she has a love for the freedoms of France and a hatred of what is happening to women in the Muslim world. She has the true view on Islam. This 'burkini' convertee to Islam who is enjoying her 15 minutes of fame over the incident hasn't got a fucking clue. Send her back to the west bank & see how she fares.
Now - look at the west. Sure - we have a beer. Sure - girls walk around with mini skirts on - but if you really think that we are morally inferior to people that smother babies, beat girls, fuck 12 year olds, kill their sisters, set fire to pregnant women and throw acid on them, then you have been drinking some serious kool-aid.
Crass publicity seeking attempts like this do NOT chip away at Western society. Ignorance, Arrogance & Hubris does. Last time I checked, most of that came from within.
Not sure I agree with that comment. I don't see things in such stark contrast. For me, there are many shades of grey. It could be a Canadian thing. Canadian society is relatively unique I'm told, ...however, the "majority" of muslims I encounter here in Canada, aren't the crazy whackjobs you seem to be going on about, or the kind that Garebear and our troops have to fight against over in Afghanistan. They're more like Toxie, trying their best to enjoy their lives and the freedoms living in a Western culture affords them, ...and doing their darndest dealing with the parental pressure to have an arranged marriage. lol
The majority of muslims are not crazy whackjobs. The majority simply do not oppose terrorism. The majority want the Sharia law in the countries they were given the gift of being able to live in. Go look at Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists - where's all the news stories about their human rights ? They don't exist because unlike the muslims, they are not waging a propoganda war against the West from within. A war that is, that you have brought into hook, line & sinker.
The day you see Muslims on the street opposing terrorism. The day you see Muslims on the street supporting western culture (which despite what you think, is NOT inferior). The day you see Muslims trying to integrate is the day that the Islamists will be weakened. As it is, the MAJORITY of Muslims in the West want to change the cultures of their host country which is also the Islamist view. That does NOT make them 'whackjobs' but it does make them a threat.
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wasn't the do not eat from the tree of knowledge from genesis? how old is islam?
Yes it was
jag you said that muslim doctrine was "seek knowledge" at the time christian doctrine said "do not eat from the tree of knowledge.
who happened to be muslim, but the doctrine was "Above all else, seek knowledge" and so the people did, and it led to great discoveries. it came at a time when the Christian doctrin was "Do not eat from the tree of knowledge"
you agree the christian doctrine is from genesis which is supposedly written around 6000 years ago.
how old is islam? all i can find is it is about 1400 hundred years old.
do you have a source that shows that the two doctrines you stated were occuring at the same time?
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I say Islam brought those things because they came at a time when Islam ruled the world as we knew it.
what years are you talking about?
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It was an assumptive question that deliberately implies falsehoods. Thats why it makes you an ass.
so you have no ties to jaguar enterprises out of toledo, ohio?
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If this thread isn't proof that Jag is a Muslim, then I don't know what is. Her compass is as royally fucked as the nutjob imams preaching for destruction of everyone. She has contempt for all things non-Islamic and this thread is proof of that.
Now if she would do the womanly thing (by Islamic standards) and have a raghead throw acid in her face....
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I would have written a thoughtful and eloquent response ala Pedro, but Jag has displayed a continuous disregard for reality to such an extent that from now on, mocking her and pointing out her stupidity seems like a better way to use my energy.
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This is not a semantical argument. Attempting to turn it into one is a poor substitute for debate.
This is France, France has grown up and has it's own culture and set of rules. A swimming pool can apply whatever rules it sees fit for the benefit of the health of it's filtration system and it's patrons. Let us consider how many years France has had freedom and swimming pools (many) let us consider how many years the Burkini has been in existence (few). This swimming pool has not changed any rules, it is operating as it has done for years. It is the norm there & accepted by all. There have been no cases in the press of guys in surf shorts getting thrown out of the pool, no cases of hindu's in turbans being thrown out of this pool. Is this because it never happened OR is it because the surfers/hindus accepted the rules of the land and either changed or exited the pool ? I think you know which.
Now -let's examine this case. The Burkini s a very new invention. The woman in question not only got asked to leave the pool, she also went to the press AND threatened to leave the country. If you cannot see this for what it is, then you are either being argumentative for the sake of it or you are espousing irrational liberal views.
Now - to put this in perspective, I lived in Yatsuo Village, about 30k from Toyama City, on the North coast of Japan. I lived there in a small 1 bedroom appartment for 6 months. I was the only westerner in that village. There was not a single other white OR English speaking person there. When I went to the pool there, they made me wear a swimming cap AND made me get out of the pool every 30 minutes to rest. Neither of these were necessary but I went with the flow as opposed to attempting to override the majority that were clearly used to swimming that way. I did not go to the press and I did not threaten to leave the country. I did however, learn a lot about accepting the culture of the host country.
It is quite simple, if you live in a country with a culture that is very different from your own, it is like swimming in a river. First you try to swim against the current but it is a painful experience and you get nowhere. In the end you adapt to the norms of that culture and are rewarded with an experience and understanding that cannot be put into words. The Muslims should give this a go.
Tell you what - go out now & buy "Burned Alive" by Souad. This is the first hand account of a muslim woman in the West Bank. Her mother had 14 children just under half of which were smothered after birth because they were female. Forget the beatings she had all her life. Forget the time her parents left the house and her brother strangled her sister - for smearing the families name. The girl in question couldn't get married because her older, fatter sister had to marry first & no-one wanted her. A local man who was interested in her and has asked for her hand in marriage couldn't have her because of this. To cut a long story short, she had sex with this man and fell pregnant. When they found out, her family arranged for her brother in law to come around & murder her. He sprayed her with gasoline and set light to her. She 'fortunately' ended up in hospital. The staff there wouldn't help her because she was 'Charmuta'. Her mother came around and persuaded her that this was causing the family a lot of stress and gave her some poison to drink. Fortunately someone came by and stopped this just as she had the glass to her lips. In the end, a European aid worker saw her & had her rescued as the hospital was not treating her, feeding her or giving her water. She now lives in France and she has a love for the freedoms of France and a hatred of what is happening to women in the Muslim world. She has the true view on Islam. This 'burkini' convertee to Islam who is enjoying her 15 minutes of fame over the incident hasn't got a fucking clue. Send her back to the west bank & see how she fares.
Now - look at the west. Sure - we have a beer. Sure - girls walk around with mini skirts on - but if you really think that we are morally inferior to people that smother babies, beat girls, fuck 12 year olds, kill their sisters, set fire to pregnant women and throw acid on them, then you have been drinking some serious kool-aid.
The majority of muslims are not crazy whackjobs. The majority simply do not oppose terrorism. The majority want the Sharia law in the countries they were given the gift of being able to live in. Go look at Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists - where's all the news stories about their human rights ? They don't exist because unlike the muslims, they are not waging a propoganda war against the West from within. A war that is, that you have brought into hook, line & sinker.
The day you see Muslims on the street opposing terrorism. The day you see Muslims on the street supporting western culture (which despite what you think, is NOT inferior). The day you see Muslims trying to integrate is the day that the Islamists will be weakened. As it is, the MAJORITY of Muslims in the West want to change the cultures of their host country which is also the Islamist view. That does NOT make them 'whackjobs' but it does make them a threat.
Wow!
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I would have written a thoughtful and eloquent response ala Pedro, but Jag has displayed a continuous disregard for reality to such an extent that from now on, mocking her and pointing out her stupidity seems like a better way to use my energy.
That's the approach I take. Much more enjoyable.
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It is quite simple, if you live in a country with a culture that is very different from your own, it is like swimming in a river. First you try to swim against the current but it is a painful experience and you get nowhere. In the end you adapt to the norms of that culture and are rewarded with an experience and understanding that cannot be put into words. The Muslims should give this a go.
Well said.
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This is not a semantical argument. Attempting to turn it into one is a poor substitute for debate.
This is France, France has grown up and has it's own culture and set of rules. A swimming pool can apply whatever rules it sees fit for the benefit of the health of it's filtration system and it's patrons. Let us consider how many years France has had freedom and swimming pools (many) let us consider how many years the Burkini has been in existence (few). This swimming pool has not changed any rules, it is operating as it has done for years. It is the norm there & accepted by all. There have been no cases in the press of guys in surf shorts getting thrown out of the pool, no cases of hindu's in turbans being thrown out of this pool. Is this because it never happened OR is it because the surfers/hindus accepted the rules of the land and either changed or exited the pool ? I think you know which.
Now -let's examine this case. The Burkini s a very new invention. The woman in question not only got asked to leave the pool, she also went to the press AND threatened to leave the country. If you cannot see this for what it is, then you are either being argumentative for the sake of it or you are espousing irrational liberal views.
Now - to put this in perspective, I lived in Yatsuo Village, about 30k from Toyama City, on the North coast of Japan. I lived there in a small 1 bedroom appartment for 6 months. I was the only westerner in that village. There was not a single other white OR English speaking person there. When I went to the pool there, they made me wear a swimming cap AND made me get out of the pool every 30 minutes to rest. Neither of these were necessary but I went with the flow as opposed to attempting to override the majority that were clearly used to swimming that way. I did not go to the press and I did not threaten to leave the country. I did however, learn a lot about accepting the culture of the host country.
It is quite simple, if you live in a country with a culture that is very different from your own, it is like swimming in a river. First you try to swim against the current but it is a painful experience and you get nowhere. In the end you adapt to the norms of that culture and are rewarded with an experience and understanding that cannot be put into words. The Muslims should give this a go.
Tell you what - go out now & buy "Burned Alive" by Souad. This is the first hand account of a muslim woman in the West Bank. Her mother had 14 children just under half of which were smothered after birth because they were female. Forget the beatings she had all her life. Forget the time her parents left the house and her brother strangled her sister - for smearing the families name. The girl in question couldn't get married because her older, fatter sister had to marry first & no-one wanted her. A local man who was interested in her and has asked for her hand in marriage couldn't have her because of this. To cut a long story short, she had sex with this man and fell pregnant. When they found out, her family arranged for her brother in law to come around & murder her. He sprayed her with gasoline and set light to her. She 'fortunately' ended up in hospital. The staff there wouldn't help her because she was 'Charmuta'. Her mother came around and persuaded her that this was causing the family a lot of stress and gave her some poison to drink. Fortunately someone came by and stopped this just as she had the glass to her lips. In the end, a European aid worker saw her & had her rescued as the hospital was not treating her, feeding her or giving her water. She now lives in France and she has a love for the freedoms of France and a hatred of what is happening to women in the Muslim world. She has the true view on Islam. This 'burkini' convertee to Islam who is enjoying her 15 minutes of fame over the incident hasn't got a fucking clue. Send her back to the west bank & see how she fares.
Now - look at the west. Sure - we have a beer. Sure - girls walk around with mini skirts on - but if you really think that we are morally inferior to people that smother babies, beat girls, fuck 12 year olds, kill their sisters, set fire to pregnant women and throw acid on them, then you have been drinking some serious kool-aid.
The majority of muslims are not crazy whackjobs. The majority simply do not oppose terrorism. The majority want the Sharia law in the countries they were given the gift of being able to live in. Go look at Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists - where's all the news stories about their human rights ? They don't exist because unlike the muslims, they are not waging a propoganda war against the West from within. A war that is, that you have brought into hook, line & sinker.
The day you see Muslims on the street opposing terrorism. The day you see Muslims on the street supporting western culture (which despite what you think, is NOT inferior). The day you see Muslims trying to integrate is the day that the Islamists will be weakened. As it is, the MAJORITY of Muslims in the West want to change the cultures of their host country which is also the Islamist view. That does NOT make them 'whackjobs' but it does make them a threat.
Wow Pedro,
I truly don't know what you're going on about. We are essentially saying the same thing... with different levels of passion. I fear my dispassionate objective observation of the situation has blinded you to what I've actually said. We are on the same side of this. Go back and re-read what I wrote, and you'll see that.
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so you have no ties to jaguar enterprises out of toledo, ohio?
No I do not have ties to jaguar enterprises out of toledo ohio. I neither have ties to jaguar enterprises out of Mumbai India, or the jaguar enterprises in Wales, or the jaguarenterprises of Santa Ana or the jaguar enterprises in TX... or any other jaguar enterprises out there.
If you named your dog Duke, would that mean he had ties to another dog in England also named Duke?
Let us use some common sense please. I know a woman named Boone, who happens to be rather nasty. I wouldn't go about automatically assuming you had ties to her tho. Unfortunately jaguar enterprises is a rather popular name.
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Wow Pedro,
I truly don't know what you're going on about. We are essentially saying the same thing... with different levels of passion. I fear my dispassionate objective observation of the situation has blinded you to what I've actually said. We are on the same side of this. Go back and re-read what I wrote, and you'll see that.
So when you said the we are morally inferior and then he said that we were not, you guys were saying the same thing?
That's the most interesting thing I've heard all day.
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The pool has a set of rules. The woman did not follow them. She is not allowed to swim.
Pretty simple to me.
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Wow Pedro,
I truly don't know what you're going on about. We are essentially saying the same thing... with different levels of passion. I fear my dispassionate objective observation of the situation has blinded you to what I've actually said. We are on the same side of this. Go back and re-read what I wrote, and you'll see that.
I read and understand exactly what you said "We Westerners ARE morally inferior. We know right from wrong, ...but we do the wrong thing just the same. The only good thing we can saw is that while we're morally inferior, ...at least we don't have a moral disconnect."
We don't set fire to unmarried pregnant women in the West. We don't murder girls at birth and we certainly don't murder them over gossip as happens in the Muslim world. We don't have honour killings. Well, we do now - because we have Muslim communities.
You seem to think that the relatively minor sins committed in the West are actually worse because we know right from wrong, yet the Muslims are OK murdering children because they don't know any better.
Single mother in the West. Gets given help by the government. Terrible sin because we should know better than to help a filthy whore.
Single mother in the West Bank. Gets set on fire by her brother in law, her mother later tries to poison her. Not a sin as they don't know any better.
Woman has affair in the West. Gets a divorce and half her husbands belongings. Terrible sin as we should know better than to reward her behavior & punish her husband.
Woman has affair in the West Bank. Gets stoned to death by a mob. Not a sin as they don't know any better.
Girl gets raped in the West. Gets victim support. Terrible sin because the filthy slut was wearing a short skirt.
Girl gets raped in the West Bank. Gets strangled by her brother at her parents command as she is no longer a virgin and causes the family shame. Not a sin as they don't know any better.
I humbly disagree with the point you are trying to make.
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Pedro arguing with her is like pissing in the wind or shooting pool with a rope. Its a waste of time- she is a complete numbskull. Everything she posts is based on some imaginary moral relativism where everyone and everything is morally equivalent, the west is always wrong, and the Easter Bunny exists but SHE is not tied to any single religion.. She is just pro enviroment!
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No I do not have ties to jaguar enterprises out of toledo ohio. I neither have ties to jaguar enterprises out of Mumbai India, or the jaguar enterprises in Wales, or the jaguarenterprises of Santa Ana or the jaguar enterprises in TX... or any other jaguar enterprises out there.
If you named your dog Duke, would that mean he had ties to another dog in England also named Duke?
Let us use some common sense please. I know a woman named Boone, who happens to be rather nasty. I wouldn't go about automatically assuming you had ties to her tho. Unfortunately jaguar enterprises is a rather popular name.
cripes woman, a simple no would have sufficed.
interested in your answers to these
jag you said that muslim doctrine was "seek knowledge" at the time christian doctrine said "do not eat from the tree of knowledge.
you agree the christian doctrine is from genesis which is supposedly written around 6000 years ago.
how old is islam? all i can find is it is about 1400 hundred years old.
do you have a source that shows that the two doctrines you stated were occuring at the same time?
what years are you talking about?
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bump for knowledge
jag you said that muslim doctrine was "seek knowledge" at the time christian doctrine said "do not eat from the tree of knowledge.
you agree the christian doctrine is from genesis which is supposedly written around 6000 years ago.
how old is islam? all i can find is it is about 1400 hundred years old.
do you have a source that shows that the two doctrines you stated were occuring at the same time?
what years are you talking about?
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Are things changing in Europe? Are the native Europeans going to start standing up for themselves and their culture?
???
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Are things changing in Europe? Are the native Europeans going to start standing up for themselves and their culture?
???
QFT God Damn it >:( don't make us go back over there to "sort out" your little "problems" >:(
101st Speed >:(
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QFT God Damn it >:( don't make us go back over there to "sort out" your little "problems" >:(
101st Speed >:(
Very good post, I'll be kicking ass in the Rhineland just like my grandfather!
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Very good post, I'll be kicking ass in the Rhineland just like my grandfather!
I'll be in front of you kicking the panel of the amphibian and emptying my first clip >:(
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I'll be in front of you kicking the panel of the amphibian and emptying my first clip >:(
Mr, you sure are tuff.
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Mr, you sure are tuff.
Anything to prevent the JIhad meme from spreading. we've done before, we'll do it again.