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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: technokc on September 28, 2009, 04:28:34 PM
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Most people have written him as a lesser Mr. Olympia winner. But after the way he looked last night if he can come back next year and win again with the same body or slightly improved how will people think about his history then? Can we still really say he had one of the worst reigns if he does? Obviously you wouldnt put him with coleman, yates, haney, and arnold, but after that where do you think his legacy will be?
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Most people have written him as a lesser Mr. Olympia winner. But after the way he looked last night if he can come back next year and win again with the same body or slightly improved how will people think about his history then? Can we still really say he had one of the worst reigns if he does? Obviously you wouldnt put him with coleman, yates, haney, and arnold, but after that where do you think his legacy will be?
He made history over the weekend , if he is dead on like this he could beat anyone who was there .
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He made history over the weekend , if he is dead on like this he could beat anyone who was there .
I am surprised you are so amored by him. Think the competition is just so iffy now that he wins by attrition.
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I am surprised you are so amored by him. Think the competition is just so iffy now that he wins by attrition.
I'm not... I don't think he's that spectacular compared to Yates or Ronnie but he's the current best and if his conditioning is spot-on like it was there are only a few people who can beat him , I think an improved Kai most certainly can and a dead on Heath may give him a real run for his money
What he did was very impressive , hell I said I think his best days are behind him just a week ago
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In a manner of speaking, his legacy is now more unique and storied than if he had not lost the title last year. He made history by winning back the title, and in dominating fashion at that. One need only read the boards to see how opinion of him quickly changed once people saw his condition Friday night. Even the most ardent critics were praising him. If he wanted, he could now retire on a high note, with the stain of last year's loss removed. If he comes back to crush everyone for number 4, that will cement his legacy all the more.
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In a manner of speaking, his legacy is now more unique and storied than if he had not lost the title last year. He made history by winning back the title, and in dominating fashion at that. One need only read the boards to see how opinion of him quickly changed once people saw his condition Friday night. Even the most ardent critics were praising him. If he wanted, he could now retire on a high note, with the stain of last year's loss removed. If he comes back to crush everyone for number 4, that will cement his legacy all the more.
nicely put.
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I'm not... I don't think he's that spectacular compared to Yates or Ronnie but he's the current best and if his conditioning is spot-on like it was there are only a few people who can beat him , I think an improved Kai most certainly can and a dead on Heath may give him a real run for his money
What he did was very impressive , hell I said I think his best days are behind him just a week ago
Agreed. Hes simply the current best.If Victor could ever fulfill his potential he would hand Jay his ass but who knows if that will ever happen.Jay would struggle to get top five in any of Dorians wins
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Agreed. Hes simply the current best.If Victor could ever fulfill his potential he would hand Jay his ass but who knows if that will ever happen.Jay would struggle to get top five in any of Dorians wins
Even still assuming 2001 as being Jay's best of all time, I feel that physique would account for itself very well during Dorian's era. Perhaps not enough to beat Dorian at his very best, but easily good enough for top 3. He'd wipe the floor with Shawn Ray and would likely beat Wheeler and Levrone, who were both very inconsistent with their showings at the O. Nasser, as good as he was at times, would lose as well. 2001 Jay could be runner up, without problem. So would 2009 Jay. Against Dorian himself, he wouldn't be near as dry or detailed, but would have size enough to make things a bit interesting as a comparison.
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I am surprised you are so amored by him. Think the competition is just so iffy now that he wins by attrition.
Jay is white and somewhat blocky.
so ND loves him, along with dorian and gunter.
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Even still assuming 2001 as being Jay's best of all time, I feel that physique would account for itself very well during Dorian's era. Perhaps not enough to beat Dorian at his very best, but easily good enough for top 3. He'd wipe the floor with Shawn Ray and would likely beat Wheeler and Levrone, who were both very inconsistent with their showings at the O. Nasser, as good as he was at times, would lose as well. 2001 Jay could be runner up, without problem. So would 2009 Jay. Against Dorian himself, he wouldn't be near as dry or detailed, but would have size enough to make things a bit interesting as a comparison.
your getting to be even dumber than ND.. ::)
Jay would get crushed by any of those guys in top shape:
take for example Ray, its not even close:
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sorry Jay, you won because no one good is around anymore :'(
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you can see that although Jay is physically much bigger, the quality is severely lacking against someone like Shawn in top shape.
the same would hold true if Jay met Flex, hell, even Chris in his 99 Olympia shape would beat Jay (he should have beat him at the AC a few years ago as well)
Kevin in his top form (92) would likely win as well.
ronnie and dorian - well, we know Jay was not close to these two when in top form.
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shawn ray would look like a little kid next to Jay though.
At the same size - Dex is a better bodybuilder.
in real life, next to each other, jay is just bigger.
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size wise, yes. Jay outweighs him significantly.
but the quality was overwelming. shawn has beat many guys who outweighed him.
if this had stepped onstage at the Olympia, it would have won the contest with flying colours, even if he was only 215 pounds:
come on now. Jay is not in the same league as ronnie, dorian, shawn, flex etc. when they are in top form
thats just reality. not a knock on jay, just reality.
no sense in pretending Jay is something that he is not.
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your getting to be even dumber than ND.. ::)
Jay would get crushed by any of those guys in top shape:
take for example Ray, its not even close:
Shawn only changed marginally over his entire career. Where did Ray place in 2001, again? You know, the year Jay beat Ronnie in both prejudging rounds. 2001/2009 Jay destroys Ray and makes him look like a child, just like happened to Dex on the weekend. Pick any year of Shawn Ray you want, and Jay at his best rips Shawn a new one. There isn't enough Goat Whey in the world to change that. Case closed, over and out.
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have to agree with blockhead that the jacka$$es are on a role over this win by jay. he did good but he isnt the greatest thing ever. two weeks ago he was dogs##t. 94 Ray would beat 09 Jay if they stayed away from the BS judging and called it for bbing excellence. Shit...Bob Chick and crew were calling it Kai's show after prejudging. Problem is someone showed AMI's head guys the soft porn stuff. anyway...jay did good but the odds are against him putting it together again. probably get the 06-07 skin folds. in 10 i dont see phil f##kin up, kai gets better, vic hopefully gets the legs straight, but again, it's still who they want. this weekend u saw the good (old champ putting it together) and the bad (a guy with a couple of bones get downgraded). anyway...Tanji was the one who really got ROBBED!
(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s48/Xiongshou/TanjiJohnson.jpg)
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well, Ronnie won the titles a few times with a baby in his belly so why not Jay being a wide waist bodybuilder to be inducted into the "hall of fame"?
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size wise, yes. Jay outweighs him significantly.
but the quality was overwelming. shawn has beat many guys who outweighed him.
if this had stepped onstage at the Olympia, it would have won the contest with flying colours, even if he was only 215 pounds:
come on now. Jay is not in the same league as ronnie, dorian, shawn, flex etc. when they are in top form
thats just reality. not a knock on jay, just reality.
no sense in pretending Jay is something that he is not.
Hulk,
Normally I would agree. I am a huge Ray fan and think he is one of the all time greats but the JAY we say on Saturday was very impressive. It seemed everyone had the same type of shock they did when Ronnie steped out in 2003. But this time I could easily see Ray being overlooked due to the sheer amount of musclemass that Jay has over him as well as the great conditioning. That would really be an interesting comparison though.
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Yeah buddy...
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x263/timeamajorova/jayohnine.jpg)
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Yeah buddy...
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x263/timeamajorova/jayohnine.jpg)
couldnt pull this one off even if he painted the girdle the color of his protan and drew abs on it.
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couldnt pull this one off even if he painted the girdle the color of his protan and drew abs on it.
Didn't think anyone would catch it... ;D
I know your'e right!
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well, Ronnie won the titles a few times with a baby in his belly so why not Jay being a wide waist bodybuilder to be inducted into the "hall of fame"?
because Ronnie wasn't smooth from the waist up? 8)
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Pick any year of Shawn Ray you want, and Jay at his best rips Shawn a new one.
your even dumber than I thought you were..
yes, Jay beat Dex.
but Shawn easily beats them both:
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Jay wont be back, he wanted three Os and he got them. This leaves the door open for Kai.
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I think the 09 Jay was even better than the 2001 Jay, and the 2001 Jay beat Shawn Ray. So unless 2001 was an off year for Shawn, he wouldn't beat Jay. I agree Ray's quality was incredible, but the size difference is just too overwhelming IMO.
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again, shawn is so far ahead of these guys..
even if he is physically smaller. he would easily win.
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Most people have written him as a lesser Mr. Olympia winner. But after the way he looked last night if he can come back next year and win again with the same body or slightly improved how will people think about his history then? Can we still really say he had one of the worst reigns if he does? Obviously you wouldnt put him with coleman, yates, haney, and arnold, but after that where do you think his legacy will be?
cmon in no way would he have a "bad reign"......like a Columbu, or be known as a one timer like Bannout, Jackson or Dickerson. If he wins 4 times he will go down as one of the best Mr Olympias of all time, only behind who? Dorian, Arnold, Haney and the legend Coleman.
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again, shawn is so far ahead of these guys..
even if he is physically smaller. he would easily win.
Then why didn't he easily beat Jay in 2001?
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Then why didn't he easily beat Jay in 2001?
Exactly. Anyone notice who's in the background?
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Then why didn't he easily beat Jay in 2001?
LASIX.
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LASIX.
;D
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LASIX.
thanks. u cant even count the 01 jay nor the shawn who wasw dq'ed at the arnold. 09 j vs 04 sr but shawn still gets jacked by the judges for his mouth which is equal to kai's porn.
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In a manner of speaking, his legacy is now more unique and storied than if he had not lost the title last year.
Beautifully put. He won't be considered the dominating figures that Arnold, Haney, Yates and Coleman were. He won't be foot notes like Dickerson, Bannout and I think even Franco. Then you got the middle of roads like Zane and such. And of course the old schoolers won't ever give him a pass that he wouldn't have stood a chance against the 1990's and very early 2000 champs in which anyone of them would have mop the floor against this weekend's best. But Jay, after last Saturday, carved himself his own little niche. People, like myself, that never really accepted him as the O, now nod to themselves and think, "OK. OK you blocky, morphed out, unbalanced fridge. I'll give you your due. You've proved yourself. You never gave up. You were at it day in day out, year after year, grinding away. Never making a big show or shooting off your mouth. Just nose to the grind stone 24/7. You made your mark. You made history. Good for you. You showed good character and the heart of a lion. Good for you. This is the stuff that dreams are made of. You deserve it."
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Totally different lighting and cameras. Jay would beat dorian.. No doubt about it.
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If he comes back and wins four, then he wins four. What's the big deal if he does or doesn't? The whole legacy makes no difference anyway.
Winning the Olympia IS its own legacy. Everyone who won the Olympia represented some legacy of the sport. Even the one timers like Bannout and Dickerson (and so far Jackson) are part of it all because their victories represented certain trends in the sport.
Probably the thing that Dexter's victory (and Branch's second place) represents is that if you are off, then you have a legimitate shot at losing, unlike many pervious Olympis. Jay was off and Dexter was there to pick up the pieces and did so. This year, Jay wasn't off and so Dexter loses.
That's sport.
(I guess)
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A lot of you guys have gotten off track on the original subject. Im not wondering about how Jay compares to bodybuilders as a whole but as to his place in the pantheon of Mr. O's. Sure one could say that he didn't compete against the best and than shawn, flex, levrone, and cormier were better. But guess what they have zero Mr. Olympia titles between them!
So in the scheme of things if he wins 4 or maybe keeps it up for 5 or 6, 20 years from now will he be lumped into the top guy level with arnold, ronnie, dorian, and haney? Or will he be down the totem pole somewhere?
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Jay is white and somewhat blocky.
so ND loves him, along with dorian and gunter.
Oh like your plumpster comrade? you only like ebony muscle? stop projecting your man-love on others
I understand how contests are judged hence why I agree with the judging , you being the dummy you are base everything on what you like to look at and you find the ebony guys more pretty so therefore in your eye should win NOT how it works dummy ;)
stick to posting something you're good at ' sharpened ' pics of Ronnie
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your getting to be even dumber than ND.. ::)
Jay would get crushed by any of those guys in top shape:
take for example Ray, its not even close:
hahahahahaha typical dummy , Jay this past week-end would trample Shawn Ray 1994 with ease.
stop basing your opinion on whose prettier NOT how it works
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Shawn only changed marginally over his entire career. Where did Ray place in 2001, again? You know, the year Jay beat Ronnie in both prejudging rounds. 2001/2009 Jay destroys Ray and makes him look like a child, just like happened to Dex on the weekend. Pick any year of Shawn Ray you want, and Jay at his best rips Shawn a new one. There isn't enough Goat Whey in the world to change that. Case closed, over and out.
Hahahahahaha Hulkster the idiot with more backfired logic
Hulkster keeps judging contests on who looks prettier lol
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Then why didn't he easily beat Jay in 2001?
because Shawn 94/96 was much sharper than Shawn 2001.
when you are 210 pounds and competing with 260 pounders, if your not in 100% top shape, you get screwed.
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Jay this past week-end would trample Shawn Ray 1994 with ease.
you truly demonstrate how your love of the white skin blinds your ability to properly assess a physique.. ::)
this is domination: its not even close:
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nice wrinkles in the back jay lol
notice the quality of shawns lat spread - ripped pecs, quads, great taper, even his best ever abs are showing..
and all you get with jay is a fridge.. :-\
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could the nuthuggers be any more stupid? LOL
94 shawn would have dominated the stage in 09:
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LOL
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LOL part 2
even ivory lover Flowerboy should be able to see that Shawn is wiping the stage with first second and third..
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you truly demonstrate how your love of the white skin blinds your ability to properly assess a physique.. ::)
this is domination: its not even close:
You think by trying to divert this about race this somehow changes the fact Shawn Ray would be crushed by Jay Cutler? typical Hulkster you can't touch the message so attack the messenger ;)
You think way to highly of Shawn Ray he would be dominated by Jay like he was by Dorian and your love for pretty ebony muscle doesn't change the fact the criteria favors Jay which is why he won no excuses needed to diversionary tactics
Jay excellent balance , density , dryness and size an almost unbeatable combo
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could the nuthuggers be any more stupid? LOL
94 shawn would have dominated the stage in 09:
meltdown ;)
Shawn would in NO way shape or form beat Jay 09 not in the cards
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Jay excellent balance , density , dryness and size an almost unbeatable combo
oh the irony of the biggest dorian lover on the planet going on about dryness and density in a guy with a back filled with loose folds of skin..
::)
now more than ever I am convinced its all about skin colour for you.. :-\
the particulars of the physique mean nothing to you. ::)
keep on posting and cementing it in..
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fact the criteria favors Jay
fact shawn routinely beat guys much bigger than him because of the quality of his physique.
what makes you think this would be any different?: ::)
you think the criteria favors jay?:
think again buddy:
maybe the same fucked up criteria that you think would favor dorian over ronnie, but not in this planet.
not by a long shot:
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^
LOL clueless ND thinks Jay is better LOL ::) ::)
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oh the irony of the biggest dorian lover on the planet going on about dryness and density in a guy with a back filled with loose folds of skin..
::)
now more than ever I am convinced its all about skin colour for you.. :-\
the particulars of the physique mean nothing to you. ::)
keep on posting and cementing it in..
I never said he was as hard and as dry as Dorian ;)
and you're convinced of a lot of wacky shit that's nothing new , like Ronnie had more detailed calves than Dorian , and Dorian lost the 1993 Mr Olympia and Shawn Ray beats Dorian 1995 in a front latspread , and Dorian was the most overrated bodybuilder of all time , so you convinced it's about colour ( sic ) is nothing new
and the particulars of the physique? lmfao what like balance ( which I listed ) density ( which I listed ) dryness ( which I listed ) and muscular bulk? ( which I listed )
You like men with pretty physiques and can't grasp how anyone without them can beat those with , it's nothing more than ignorance on your behalf , again nothing new . and seeing you can't argue with the judging criteria look for a way out in race ;) you're sinking to new levels like your comrade plumpster what's funny is while you mention race I don't think you ever once said a white guy deserved to beat a black one ;) I believe they call that projection
I judge physiques per criteria not color
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sorry Jay, you won because no one good is around anymore :'(
man
you are one angry brother
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LOL nope. if by 'brother' you mean I am black, no, I am white as can be.
that has nothing to do with stating the obvious: that shawn is better. not bigger. but better.
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im no ray fan but he is destroying jay in everything but size. the back shots show just how poor jays is, rays is crisp, defined, sharp. cutlers is none of those.
fact shawn routinely beat guys much bigger than him because of the quality of his physique.
what makes you think this would be any different?: ::)
you think the criteria favors jay?:
think again buddy:
maybe the same fucked up criteria that you think would favor dorian over ronnie, but not in this planet.
not by a long shot:
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fact shawn routinely beat guys much bigger than him because of the quality of his physique.
what makes you think this would be any different?: ::)
you think the criteria favors jay?:
think again buddy:
maybe the same fucked up criteria that you think would favor dorian over ronnie, but not in this planet.
not by a long shot:
Oh yes Shawn meets the criteria better than Jay ::) typical of your ignorance , yes Shawn beat much bigger men and your point? they were lacking Jay isn't
You claims width , width , and width yet Ray has absolutely NONE but it's okay when it's Shawn vs Jay but a major flaw when Flex V Ronnie ::) hypocrite much?
Jay has better balance than Shawn , Jay is just as hard and as dry as Shawn while carrying a fuck of a lot more muscle , easy math , Jay meets the criteria better , you want to argue Shawn has a prettier physique knock yourself out means nothing according to the criteria
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im no ray fan but he is destroying jay in everything but size. the back shots show just how poor jays is, rays is crisp, defined, sharp. cutlers is none of those.
thank you.
but ND is blinded by the ivory colour of Jay's skin. just as he favors dorian over the far superior peak ronnie, he somehow thinks Jay would beat shawn.. ::)
its always the same. skin color takes a back seat to physique qualities with flowerboy.
he demonstrates it daily.
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im no ray fan but he is destroying jay in everything but size. the back shots show just how poor jays is, rays is crisp, defined, sharp. cutlers is none of those.
but his back is white, therefore ND likes it more ::)
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thank you.
but ND is blinded by the ivory colour of Jay's skin. just as he favors dorian over the far superior peak ronnie, he somehow thinks Jay would beat shawn.. ::)
its always the same. skin color takes a back seat to physique qualities with flowerboy.
he demonstrates it daily.
racist meltdown ;)
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but his back is white, therefore ND likes it more ::)
Yeah because Shawn really beats Jay in a rear latspread ::) and standing relaxed from the rear ::) he's more balanced in those shots ::) he has better proportion ::) he's carrying more muscular bulk ::) he's wider ::)
Hulkster likes Shawn because he's black and no white guy could possibly be better than a black one ::)
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im no ray fan but he is destroying jay in everything but size. the back shots show just how poor jays is, rays is crisp, defined, sharp. cutlers is none of those.
He's not destroying Jay in balance & proportion or width or thickness , he beats him in crisp muscularity and detail but again that's only part of the criteria
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man
you are one angry brother
Hulkster is a selfloathing white guy with an affinity for pretty ebony bodybuilders :-X
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meltdown ;)
Shawn would in NO way shape or form beat Jay 09 not in the cards
Exactly. It wouldn't even be close.
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In my opinion, Shawn Ray's physique should be an Olympia winning physique.
But OBVIOUSLY the judging leans towards something freakier and shocking. With that in mind, of course Shawn has no chance of beating Yates, Cutler etc.
Jay Cutler IS balanced. So was Dorian in his first two Olympias. When you look at these two guys, nothing really stands out. The difference between these kinds of physiques and Ray's physique is the kind of balance they represent - one is freaky looking while the other is more line based.
The judging criteria is obvously being used to support the freakier (with the odd upset, ala 2008).
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In my opinion, Shawn Ray's physique should be an Olympia winning physique.
But OBVIOUSLY the judging leans towards something freakier and shocking. With that in mind, of course Shawn has no chance of beating Yates, Cutler etc.
Jay Cutler IS balanced. So was Dorian in his first two Olympias. When you look at these two guys, nothing really stands out. The difference between these kinds of physiques and Ray's physique is the kind of balance they represent - one is freaky looking while the other is more line based.
The judging criteria is obvously being used to support the freakier (with the odd upset, ala 2008).
Ray's physique isn't balanced he has short legs he has high calves that aren't in proportion with his quads , he's narrow in the clavicles to say he's balanced isn't really the truth
you can say he has pleasing proportions , that is you like where the muscles are and how it appears and perhaps that should be the ideal on what the Olympia should be but you have to take into account the rest of the criteria and even in this area Shawn falls flat on his face compared to guys like Flex Wheeler
the old adage applies a good big man will always beat a great small one , bodybuilding is a ' sport ' for the genetic elite and 5'6" and 205 pounds isn't the elite
here's what wins contests today , size , density , dryness and balance is this what should win contests? that's a matter of semantics it is what it is
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Shawn Ray's lines are world class and I would prefer the Olympia and all bodybuilding judging to promote that aspect of the sport. By this I mean that size, conditioning and posing ought to all be directed at highlighting or improving the look of one's lines. But that is my preference.
With a criteria favouring someone like Shawn Ray, then you could legimitise bodybuilding as a sport through that criteria.
However, bodybuilding as it stands today is all about size, density, dryness and balance.
Fair enough, that is what it is but I think bodybuilding would be better off it wasn't.
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Shawn Ray's lines are world class and I would prefer the Olympia and all bodybuilding judging to promote that aspect of the sport. By this I mean that size, conditioning and posing ought to all be directed at highlighting or improving the look of one's lines. But that is my preference.
With a criteria favouring someone like Shawn Ray, then you could legimitise bodybuilding as a sport through that criteria.
However, bodybuilding as it stands today is all about size, density, dryness and balance.
Fair enough, that is what it is but I think bodybuilding would be better off it wasn't.
Shawn isn't the yardstick in which conditioned aesthetic mass is judged by that would be Flex Wheeler anyway you may very well be right it might be better for the sport , someone should start their own federation and limit the amount of size on competitors and reward the more aesthetic physiques but going against the IFBB is an exercise in futility
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To my eyes, Flex post-1993 was a shadow of what he showed in 1993. Despite some more second place Olympia finishes and Arnold Classic victories, I felt his physique looked worse and worse. But then, I'm not an IFBB judge so...
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To my eyes, Flex post-1993 was a shadow of what he showed in 1993. Despite some more second place Olympia finishes and Arnold Classic victories, I felt his physique looked worse and worse. But then, I'm not an IFBB judge so...
I agree 1993 was his high mark for his physique
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I agree 1993 was his high mark for his physique
Its the high mark for ANY physique my friend.
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Going back to topic, if Jay comes back and wins number four then hopefully it means that the bst physique on the night won.
In terms of legacy and whether he is among the elite of Mr Olympia winners, well, you can only compete against the opposition that is there. Arnold wins seven Mr Olympias but other than 1980, he only ever really competed against one or two others.
It's not Jay's fault if he beats guys who are 'supposed to be better'. He has every right to beat them if he is in shape.
The whole 'one hit wonder' theory is junk anyway. Samir may only have one Olympia but his victory - virtue of having the best physique on the night you are supposed to have the best physique - ensures his legacy.
As long as Jay comes in shape and the judges are looking for his type of physique, then he deserves to win.
And that, really, is all there is to it.
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His legacy is that he was lucky enuff to win multiple Olympias with the worst structure of any winner in history. Yes hes huge and ripped and works hard so congrats. Arnold waxed competition that might not have been out of this world but was presenting a physique that had not the likes of not been seen before.Jays physique is a regression in the standard as far as I am concerned and Arnold is eons ahead of him. Yes blah blah blah Jays 50lbs heavier whatever. Bigger isnt better.
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. Yes blah blah blah Jays 50lbs heavier whatever. Bigger isnt better.
exactly...some people still don't get this.. ::)
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Ray's physique isn't balanced he has short legs he has high calves that aren't in proportion with his quads , he's narrow in the clavicles to say he's balanced isn't really the truth
you can say he has pleasing proportions , that is you like where the muscles are and how it appears and perhaps that should be the ideal on what the Olympia should be but you have to take into account the rest of the criteria and even in this area Shawn falls flat on his face compared to guys like Flex Wheeler
the old adage applies a good big man will always beat a great small one , bodybuilding is a ' sport ' for the genetic elite and 5'6" and 205 pounds isn't the elite
here's what wins contests today , size , density , dryness and balance is this what should win contests? that's a matter of semantics it is what it is
Well yes, but Flex Wheeler had no calves, until he got fake ones. Pretty narrow, until he got fake shoulders. And very narrow "disappearing" style rear lat spread. Also his chest was smaller than his delts. I know he is "the sultan of symmetry" because of his great natural lines, but in today's climate his quads would appear small, although well separated, and his disappearing back would hold him back just like it did in the 90s. This year's flat version of Heath had many of the same strengths and weaknesses.
Ray had worse shoulders than Flex (at least they were real) but a better back in the rear lat spread. Flex had the detail in the rear double bi. Shawn had proper quads, did actually have good calves, as good as someone like Cormier anyway, and certainly better than Flex.
Flex maybe had the better physique at his best, but you can pic anyone apart, even Flex. Did he not look narrow and small next to Dorian in 93 after all?
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your getting to be even dumber than ND.. ::)
Jay would get crushed by any of those guys in top shape:
take for example Ray, its not even close:
jay absolutely crushed Shawn at the 2001 Olympia. Not even close.
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Agreed. Hes simply the current best.If Victor could ever fulfill his potential he would hand Jay his ass but who knows if that will ever happen.
victor had his chances. Maybe he reached his potential. Jay wins everytime. Jay bats 1000 against victor
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exactly...some people still don't get this.. ::)
5th place Phil Heath looks Better than the guys at the 1994 Olympia in that pic