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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: 240 is Back on December 28, 2009, 04:07:25 PM
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Additionally, would you even be willing to pay $20 more per flight for this x-ray service, if it meant you KNEW nobody would be taping explosives to legs or detonators to underwear, as we saw in Detroit?
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I'll take the full body scan...but no getting jealous when I go through, 240.
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scan me baby, honestly if it was cheap and effective why the shit not?
have female scanners for women and male scanners for men
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"but no getting jealous when I go through, 240."
hey, 240 has abs once again, at a very twinkish 175 pounds :-\
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"but no getting jealous when I go through, 240."
hey, 240 has abs once again, at a very twinkish 175 pounds :-\
:D
In all seriousness, I think it's a tough issue that has the potential to take us down a dangerous road. It's easy for me to say yes because Uncle Sam already knows everything and anything about me. But, for people who haven't been through clearance checks and are not accustomed to being searched on a regular basis, and, more importantly, have not consented to such - it provides for a huge problem.
The potential for abuse is high, IMO. Get an immature TSA guard who decides to post the shit on the internet...well, you see where I'm going.
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I think the people doing the security should be near-naked too. They're standing there in boxers with a clear-plastic overcoat - they ain't posting shit online, that's for sure. nowhere to hide the camera.
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I think the people doing the security should be near-naked too. They're standing there in boxers with a clear-plastic overcoat - they ain't posting shit online, that's for sure. nowhere to hide the camera.
Hmmm...the female security too?
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I'd rather fly on an airline where everyone was armed. ;D
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Id rather fly private, bypass security and screw the rest of you plebeians :D
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Just have an all nude airline.
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Just have an all nude airline.
Didnt Hooters haver an airline?
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I'd be fine with it as long as there were no potential health side effects with the scan.
I travel a lot - I wouldn't want to be subject to something like x-rays every time.
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I am against it.
Because it's just another step towards a total Police State.
Where our personal integrity is taken away from us.
Fight the cause of the problem instead.
Ask the question why people are terrorists.
Then try to go from there.
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I am against it.
Because it's just another step towards a total Police State.
Where our personal integrity is taken away from us.
Fight the cause of the problem instead.
Ask the question why people are terrorists.
Then try to go from there.
looks like it's just me and you standing alone on this :) 2 votes. Something we've always agreed on I guess.
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looks like it's just me and you standing alone on this :) 2 votes. Something we've always agreed on I guess.
Thats fine in a vacuum.
However, when you learn the the govt is completely incompetent, incapable, and negligent in preventing known or likely terrorists from boarding the plane, I have to unfortunately side with the screening devices unless I am permitted to be armed.
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Thats fine in a vacuum.
However, when you learn the the govt is completely incompetent, incapable, and negligent in preventing known or likely terrorists from boarding the plane, I have to unfortunately side with the screening devices unless I am permitted to be armed.
I can't hear you.
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I can't hear you.
My point is that while no one wants to undergo additional screening, what choice do we unfortunately have now that we have learned the govt is incapable and icompetent in screeening for terrorists with what is already in place?
We need to place blame where blame is due on this - the radical savage animals who seek to blow us up and murder us.
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Oh please if some one knows how the system works they will get a bomb in anyway.
A bomb does not always have to look like a bomb or need metal parts.
Not all bombs need nitrates the things sensors look for.
The present security does not even pick up small quantities of metal.
I had body piercings till recently and it was never ever picked up at airport security ever ( I flew 34 times this year) even a gold mine I worked on for 2 weeks where I was checked every time I left never picked up the piercings (the thickest was 6 gauge stainless)
You have to have a balance of security and efficiany and the realisation that is some one clever enough really wants to they can bring down a plane.
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"Thats fine in a vacuum.
However, when you learn the the govt is completely incompetent, incapable, and negligent in preventing known or likely terrorists from boarding the plane, I have to unfortunately side with the screening devices"
I'm with 333386 here.
I think the non-xray plane would be full of fat people, pround people, and terrorists.
The xray plane would be full of ppl 100% confident that nobody got on board with some shit taped to their undies.
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I am against it.
Because it's just another step towards a total Police State.
Where our personal integrity is taken away from us.
Fight the cause of the problem instead.
Ask the question why people are terrorists.
Then try to go from there.
The question has been asked. A million times. As long as Islam exists, terrorism will as well. Pretty cut and dry.
Full body scans to board an airplane does not lead to a police state. If you don't like them, don't fly. Flying on an airplane isn't a right.
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My point is that while no one wants to undergo additional screening, what choice do we unfortunately have now that we have learned the govt is incapable and icompetent in screeening for terrorists with what is already in place?
We need to place blame where blame is due on this - the radical savage animals who seek to blow us up and murder us.
you need to pm me on this for a private talk
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you need to pm me on this for a private talk
Why? Do you want to screen me in private hugo? ;D ;D ;D
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.
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xray dog is cool!
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Why are Hugo, Hedgehog, and I the only ones against this? Don't any of you read? Shit is going down that we are just bending over and taking. I don't know why I'm getting mad, I guess the writing is on the wall for this country.
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Why are Hugo, Hedgehog, and I the only ones against this? Don't any of you read? Shit is going down that we are just bending over and taking. I don't know why I'm getting mad, I guess the writing is on the wall for this country.
Here is my problem with this. The govt is completely incompetent, incapable, and negligent in every aspect of most things.
I am not allowed to bring a gun or defend myself on a plane, but am expected to fly with other passengers who might be terrorists that the govt is not doing a good job of screening.
Knowing this, should I just take my life in my hands and those of my family members when the govt has already shown itself incompetent?
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Here is my problem with this. The govt is completely incompetent, incapable, and negligent in every aspect of most things.
I am not allowed to bring a gun or defend myself on a plane, but am expected to fly with other passengers who might be terrorists that the govt is not doing a good job of screening.
Knowing this, should I just take my life in my hands and those of my family members when the govt has already shown itself incompetent?
Huh? The point I was trying to make was that there is no reason to throw away more rights. This x-ray bullshit is just more government involvement that is headed to a police state.
Yeah, I honestly wish that American citizens could arm themselves on a plane, considering my rights don't end at an airport or at another state's borders, but I see too many people agreeing with this madness.
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Racial profiling..........
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Huh? The point I was trying to make was that there is no reason to throw away more rights. This x-ray bullshit is just more government involvement that is headed to a police state.
Yeah, I honestly wish that American citizens could arm themselves on a plane, considering my rights don't end at an airport or at another state's borders, but I see too many people agreeing with this madness.
If the govt is not doing its job, what choice do we have? I'm serious, Im not trying to play games.
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Why are Hugo, Hedgehog, and I the only ones against this? Don't any of you read? Shit is going down that we are just bending over and taking. I don't know why I'm getting mad, I guess the writing is on the wall for this country.
It's simple. If you don't like it, don't fly. Or pay to fly out of somewhere that doesn't have them. It's not your God given right to have access to airplanes.
No one is forcing you to walk through a full body scan.
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Dept of State and DHS dropped the ball. The guy was in a database...no baggage...paid cash..all the damm warning signs...and his old man reported him. Now we'll have the knee jerk reaction by gov to fix the problem. Get people to do their friggen job.
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It's simple. If you don't like it, don't fly. Or pay to fly out of somewhere that doesn't have them. It's not your God given right to have access to airplanes.
No one is forcing you to walk through a full body scan.
No, but it is my right to not have my privacy invaded. It is my right to move about the country as I see fit. It is pretty apparent that the UNARMED TSA are incompetant and do nothing to increase actual security in an airport.
Like HH6 always says, go read, the information is out there.
I highly recommend Brotherhood of Warriors by Aaron Cohen. He was an ex Israeli Special Forces Operative that started his own private security and training firm. He has some great ideas about increasing our security(some that I don't agree with), and blasts our way of security at airports. He thinks taking off your shoes is a joke. Go read it so we can discuss some of those things.
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No, but it is my right to not have my privacy invaded. It is my right to move about the country as I see fit. It is pretty apparent that the UNARMED TSA are incompetant and do nothing to increase actual security in an airport.
Like HH6 always says, go read, the information is out there.
I highly recommend Brotherhood of Warriors by Aaron Cohen. He was an ex Israeli Special Forces Operative that started his own private security and training firm. He has some great ideas about increasing our security(some that I don't agree with), and blasts our way of security at airports. He thinks taking off your shoes is a joke. Go read it so we can discuss some of those things.
You're traveling through a public airport. And while it is your right to move about your country as you see fit, it's not your right to fly and move through a public airport in whatever manner that suits you, be that avoiding scans or going around a security checkpoint because you feel like it. Go ahead and drive or take a train or boat.
Sounds like a good book but it's not going to prove your point. If you don't like them, don't fly. It's pretty simple.
Again, no one is forcing you to walk through a full body scan.
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You're traveling through a public airport. And it is your right to move about your country as you see fit. Go ahead and drive or take a train or boat. It's not your right to fly and move through a public airport as it suits you.
You are missing the point my friend...where does it end that American citizens have to give up there rights to be searched and have their privacy invaded that evidently does not prevent terrorist threats?
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You are missing the point my friend...where does it end that American citizens have to give up there rights to be searched and have their privacy invaded that evidently does not prevent terrorist threats?
I'm not missing the point. You're trying to parlay full body scans into a full police state argument. I personally don't see full body scans as an invasion of privacy. I see it as a hot point because most people have disgusting bodies that they don't want others to see, despite the fact that what they're hiding isn't something anyone hasn't seen before.
If this was something that affected every day life, it would be more relevant. As it stands, 99.99% of people could never fly again and their life wouldn't be changed in any way whatsoever.
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Here is my problem with this. The govt is completely incompetent, incapable, and negligent in every aspect of most things.
is it incompetence or well planned........... we need to talk.
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Here it comes. The government staged this entire event.
*Puts tinfoil hat on*
::)
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scan me baby, honestly if it was cheap and effective why the shit not?
have female scanners for women and male scanners for men
OUTED!
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At first I was against these scanners. But then I thought about it-- We already have to take off our shoes and belts, go through a metal detector and have our luggage xrayed.
For a time you couldn't bring liquid in your carry on and to this day some airports don't allow it ( they didn't when I was coming back from Las Vegas this year).
There are additional security points for passengers chosen at random, physical pat downs and no fly/ terrorist watch lists.
Is it really going to trample my liberty further to have an electronic full body scan performed that will last a total of 5 seconds when I know for damn sure I'm not trying to smuggle shit onto an airplane to blow it up?
As long as their are some safeguards in place to keep your identity anonymous and the people doing the scanning cannot duplicate the images, who cares?
I'm also sure they can make it so that the machine totally masks the image so as to ensure that nothing embarrassing is revealed about the passenger.
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most disapointing threat yet.
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most disapointing threat yet.
I agree...can't believe people are okay with this. I honestly don't agree with taking off my shoes and the random pat downs, etc. It's unbelievable what people will allow.
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I agree...can't believe people are okay with this. I honestly don't agree with taking off my shoes and the random pat downs, etc. It's unbelievable what people will allow.
Like I said, unless and until I am allowed the means of adequate self defense, I dont have a huge problem with this. We already give up a ton of rights the airport and if this prevents potentially thousands or tens of thousands of people from being killed, im ok with it.
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most disapointing threat yet.
Disappointing because no one agrees with you? Boohoo.
I want to have my cake and eat it, too! ::)
No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to walk through the scanner. If you don't like it, don't fly. Feel free to hop in your car or on a boat and take that to your destination. Flying isn't, nor has it ever been, a right.
I've yet to see any of you present a valid argument for why these shouldn't be put in place beyond, "But, but, the govt. will expand this into a police state!" which is nothing more than a pathetic straw man (commonplace for Hugo).
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Disappointing because no one agrees with you? Boohoo.
I want to have my cake and eat it, too! ::)
No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to walk through the scanner. If you don't like it, don't fly. Feel free to hop in your car or on a boat and take that to your destination. Flying isn't, nor has it ever been, a right.
The other issue that you guys need to realize is that another 9/11, this time say hitting the WH and or Capitol Building, or hitting nuclear power plant, will end our nation as we know it forever and literally shut us down overnight.
So, if someone has to be seen in a screen, in addition to the myriad of other restrictions we already face such as pat downs, shoes, metal detectors, cameras, etc, its not the end of the world to me.
We already are treated like cattle at the airport in so many ways, I dont see this as a major issue in relation to the potential damage should these beasts hijack planes again.
On the other hand, let me and others carry our firearms on board and I will be against this.
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Up until this year I used to log about 30k to 50k miles per year flying.
Extra security doesn't bother me. What bothers me is break downs in security like this last one. I guess i could freak out about it or complain about profiling, but in the end, I'd rather go through those hassles and at least feel i little bit more secure.
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Up until this year I used to log about 30k to 50k miles per year flying.
Extra security doesn't bother me. What bothers me is break downs in security like this last one. I guess i could freak out about it or complain about profiling, but in the end, I'd rather go through those hassles and at least feel i little bit more secure.
I am not thrilled with this, however, lets be real, the govt is not allowing us to defend ourselves on planes, so if this stops a few planes from destroying the WH, so be it.
It sounds great now, but if and when ten planes crash into the WH, and later it would be revealed that a screen would have prevented it, who would have objected to it considering the country will be shut down?
I hate this, but have to be realistic as well considering the suicidal nature of the beasts the govt obviously is not doing much to stop.
So, either screen me or let me have my weapon.
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I am not thrilled with this, however, lets be real, the govt is not allowing us to defend ourselves on planes, so if this stops a few planes from destroying the WH, so be it.
It sounds great now, but if and when ten planes crash into the WH, and later it would be revealed that a screen would have prevented it, who would have objected to it considering the country will be shut down?
I hate this, but have to be realistic as well considering the suicidal nature of the beasts the govt obviously is not doing much to stop.
So, either screen me or let me have my weapon.
No offense, but i'd rather have an air marshall on every flight and increased security than have a bunch of gun packing vigilante passengers on a plane any day any time.
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No offense, but i'd rather have an air marshall on every flight and increased security than have a bunch of gun packing vigilante passengers on a plane any day any time.
Ozmo - ever hear this phrase: "I carry a gun because I cant carry a cop"
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obama did it
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Ozmo - ever hear this phrase: "I carry a gun because I cant carry a cop"
It wouldn't matter, because some of those gun carriers on planes would be morons which would normally be no big deal, but this time they would be armed. Imagine a gun fight on plane. lol.
Allowing people to carry guns on a plane would be the stupidest idea in the last 50 years.
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obama did it
If we get hit again in a similar fashion, then it definately is on him. At a minimum Napolitano should be fired.
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you people need to stop and gut check. forget everything said here and just gut check it. Know that everything has a direction and ask if you like the direction.
Myself, I'll take my chances against danger over the danger of an over intrusive police state. Better to die free than live with a scope up my ass for safety or what the fuck ever. Jesus, more people die each month driving to work than could be killed by one of these assclowns.
panic panic ohhhhhh help us help us... ::)
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you people need to stop and gut check. forget everything said here and just gut check it. Know that everything has a direction and ask if you like the direction.
Myself, I'll take my chances against danger over the danger of an over intrusive police state. Better to die free than live with a scope up my ass for safety or what the fuck ever. Jesus, more people die each month driving to work than could be killed by one of these assclowns.
panic panic ohhhhhh help us help us... ::)
You are not free now Hugo. Do you feel free going through the airport now as it is? Get over it, you already are subjected to a police state at the airport whether you like it or not. The only issue is how much at this point.
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LOL, just a funny side note: Before 2001 you couldn't go anywhere without seeing that stupid "NO FEAR" bumber sticker or window sticker on someone's car. After, nope... gone.... It's like people scraped those things off ASAP after 9/11. I don't think I've ever seen one since. I guess fear was bigger than they thought...............
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You are not free now Hugo. Do you feel free going through the airport now as it is? Get over it, you already are subjected to a police state at the airport whether you like it or not. The only issue is how much at this point.
you don't know me well... I don't get over certain things... ever.... When I'm wrong and see it, as you know, I'll admit it and correct myself, as many here have seen me do, so it's not pure stubbornness. But there are certain core values one can't sway from--this is one.
Already subject to a police state is not validation of the police state.
Meaningless side note about me: I don't fly unless I'm behind the controls..... It's one of my issues, one of my problems.... I'm a control freak, always have been. I can't sit in the back seat. I must be in total control of my density. I freak the fuck out putting my life in the hands of others so I just don't/won't do it. I had to do it in the military but I signed up for it and barred the hardship, but no fucking way now. I don't fly or drive or do anything else unless I'm the one doing it.
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LOL, just a funny side note: Before 2001 you couldn't go anywhere without seeing that stupid "NO FEAR" bumber sticker or window sticker on someone's car. After, nope... gone.... It's like people scraped those things off ASAP after 9/11. I don't think I've ever seen one since. I guess fear was bigger than they thought...............
Hugo - I live about an hour from West Point.
As a kid my dad used to take me there and we used to be able to walk wherever we wanted other than the barracks.
Now? Fuggetaboutit!
It sucks bro. I hate this shit as much as anyone, but we really have to choose between very bad options.
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Hugo - I live about an hour from West Point.
As a kid my dad used to take me there and we used to be able to walk wherever we wanted other than the barracks.
Now? Fuggetaboutit!
It sucks bro. I hate this shit as much as anyone, but we really have to choose between very bad options.
and what do you choose then? And what do you choose for the future? And what do you choose for the direction of what is to come? Are you sure you've chosen right? I'm willing to die for my choice. and yea that's not just internet warrior talk. I've believed this shit my whole life and the ideas that lead me to this kind of thinking were handed down through generations. We all die. I don't fear what will happen one way or another. Sorry, I'm just not a "Papers Please" kinda sheeple. I'll die first.
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and what do you choose then? And what do you choose for the future? And what do you choose for the direction of what is to come? Are you sure you've chosen right? I'm willing to die for my choice. and yea that's not just internet warrior talk. I've believed this shit my whole life and the ideas that lead me to this kind of thinking were handed down through generations. We all die. I don't fear what will happen one way or another. Sorry, I'm just not a "Papers Please" kinda sheeple. I'll die first.
The problem is we have already crossed the rubicon in that regard, now its just a matter of degree and how much of it we can tolerate.
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I would definitely go for a full body scan.
Those who are self conscious about their bodies, get over it.
I am ready to agree to the Israeli airport security protocols.
Sandra
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Racial profiling..........
[/quote
This would be a double edged sword for me if there weren't elderly people being pulled aside for additonal scrutiny.
one of my clients, petite blonde female says she is always pulled aside for further scrutiny.
I guess paying cash and no luggage is no longer for drug cartels.
Sandra
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Huh? The point I was trying to make was that there is no reason to throw away more rights. This x-ray bullshit is just more government involvement that is headed to a police state.
Yeah, I honestly wish that American citizens could arm themselves on a plane, considering my rights don't end at an airport or at another state's borders, but I see too many people agreeing with this madness.
You are under the perception that everyone legally armed is a rational person.
Sandra
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The problem is we have already crossed the rubicon in that regard, now its just a matter of degree and how much of it we can tolerate.
Excellent point, 33 - how much can people tolerate. I think we have to find a balance between keeping the public safe and protecting peoples right to privacy.
And, in a country founded on keeping the government in check (at least in theory, lol), I can see this as being a tough sell. I think it's a lot for anybody to take when the government starts saying it wants to take naked pics of you for security reasons.
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It wouldn't matter, because some of those gun carriers on planes would be morons which would normally be no big deal, but this time they would be armed. Imagine a gun fight on plane. lol.
Allowing people to carry guns on a plane would be the stupidest idea in the last 50 years.
I totally agree.
Sandra
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one of my clients, petite blonde female says she is always pulled aside for further scrutiny.
Sandra
Haha...I can attest to this. My wife and I were flying shortly after 911 and things were tough. I think it was in 4 or so of the airports, my wife was patted down each time. I breezed through like I wasn't even there. Random my ass, lol.
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I would definitely go for a full body scan.
Those who are self conscious about their bodies, get over it.
I am ready to agree to the Israeli airport security protocols.
Sandra
wow, just wow...
America, I will miss you :'(
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Just for the record, I would prefer to fly on planes without any hassles. But this is not the world we live in anymore. I don't think the basic stuff we did really worked anyway. An Armed Undercover marshall on every flight would be better then x-ray scans i think. But i really don't now.
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At first I was against these scanners. But then I thought about it-- We already have to take off our shoes and belts, go through a metal detector and have our luggage xrayed.
For a time you couldn't bring liquid in your carry on and to this day some airports don't allow it ( they didn't when I was coming back from Las Vegas this year).
There are additional security points for passengers chosen at random, physical pat downs and no fly/ terrorist watch lists.
Is it really going to trample my liberty further to have an electronic full body scan performed that will last a total of 5 seconds when I know for damn sure I'm not trying to smuggle shit onto an airplane to blow it up?
As long as their are some safeguards in place to keep your identity anonymous and the people doing the scanning cannot duplicate the images, who cares?
I'm also sure they can make it so that the machine totally masks the image so as to ensure that nothing embarrassing is revealed about the passenger.
You mean like all those butt plugs and vaginal plugs that people walk around wearing in their daily lives? :D
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you don't know me well... I don't get over certain things... ever.... When I'm wrong and see it, as you know, I'll admit it and correct myself, as many here have seen me do, so it's not pure stubbornness. But there are certain core values one can't sway from--this is one.
Already subject to a police state is not validation of the police state.
Meaningless side note about me: I don't fly unless I'm behind the controls..... It's one of my issues, one of my problems.... I'm a control freak, always have been. I can't sit in the back seat. I must be in total control of my density. I freak the fuck out putting my life in the hands of others so I just don't/won't do it. I had to do it in the military but I signed up for it and barred the hardship, but no fucking way now. I don't fly or drive or do anything else unless I'm the one doing it.
:o :o :o Really?!! YOU... a control freak?!
...I don't think any of us would have ever guessed that at all. Not in a million years {giggle} :D
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You are under the perception that everyone legally armed is a rational person.
Sandra
Again, I'll take my chances with that than a police state. I'll take my chances with a citizen that has their CCW because like myself they not only had to pass a state background check, but a FBI check too. That's why I submitted two fingerprint cards to ask for permission from said government to exercise my rights.
We take chances everyday, this feel good shit is worthless.