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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Fury on January 13, 2010, 09:11:04 AM
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That's right, the people of the USA and that mean old government. Chances of China or the other world powers lending a hand? Close to 0.
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That's right, the people of the USA and that mean old government. Chances of China or the other world powers lending a hand? Close to 0.
Lets see if Saudia Arabia, Iran, Venzuela, Mexico, et all send anything over there.
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Lets see if Saudia Arabia, Iran, Venzuela, Mexico, et all send anything over there.
Hahaha! Good one. Those "wonderful" countries won't do shit.
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(http://api.ning.com/files/MlSUoCmQdXS2jev8gD2FbtrFXoSMyXhBEXzCCgJYOdNmGhlWz8yRC5o7y84EBICLuhQRMtn6tcCqMXczO9qfQRdZhvUL*cj3/DavidHasselhoffBaywatchPhotographC10103337.jpg)
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Most Katrina Aid From Overseas Went Unclaimed
By John Solomon and Spencer S. Hsu
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, April 29, 2007
As the winds and water of Hurricane Katrina were receding, presidential confidante Karen Hughes sent a cable from her State Department office to U.S. ambassadors worldwide.
Titled "Echo-Chamber Message" -- a public relations term for talking points designed to be repeated again and again -- the Sept. 7, 2005, directive was unmistakable: Assure the scores of countries that had pledged or donated aid at the height of the disaster that their largesse had provided Americans "practical help and moral support" and "highlight the concrete benefits hurricane victims are receiving."
Many of the U.S. diplomats who received the message, however, were beginning to witness a more embarrassing reality. They knew the U.S. government was turning down many allies' offers of manpower, supplies and expertise worth untold millions of dollars. Eventually the United States also would fail to collect most of the unprecedented outpouring of international cash assistance for Katrina's victims.
Allies offered $854 million in cash and in oil that was to be sold for cash. But only $40 million has been used so far for disaster victims or reconstruction, according to U.S. officials and contractors. Most of the aid went uncollected, including $400 million worth of oil. Some offers were withdrawn or redirected to private groups such as the Red Cross. The rest has been delayed by red tape and bureaucratic limits on how it can be spent.
In addition, valuable supplies and services -- such as cellphone systems, medicine and cruise ships -- were delayed or declined because the government could not handle them. In some cases, supplies were wasted.
The struggle to apply foreign aid in the aftermath of the hurricane, which has cost U.S. taxpayers more than $125 billion so far, is another reminder of the federal government's difficulty leading the recovery. Reports of government waste and delays or denials of assistance have surfaced repeatedly since hurricanes Katrina and Rita struck in 2005.
Administration officials acknowledged in February 2006 that they were ill prepared to coordinate and distribute foreign aid and that only about half the $126 million received had been put to use. Now, 20 months after Katrina, newly released documents and interviews make clear the magnitude of the troubles.
More than 10,000 pages of cables, telegraphs and e-mails from U.S. diplomats around the globe -- released piecemeal since last fall under the Freedom of Information Act -- provide a fuller account of problems that, at times, mystified generous allies and left U.S. representatives at a loss for an explanation. The documents were obtained by Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, a public interest group, which provided them to The Washington Post.
In one exchange, State Department officials anguished over whether to tell Italy that its shipments of medicine, gauze and other medical supplies spoiled in the elements for weeks after Katrina's landfall on Aug. 29, 2005, and were destroyed. "Tell them we blew it," one disgusted official wrote. But she hedged: "The flip side is just to dispose of it and not come clean. I could be persuaded."
In another instance, the Department of Homeland Security accepted an offer from Greece on Sept. 3, 2005, to dispatch two cruise ships that could be used free as hotels or hospitals for displaced residents. The deal was rescinded Sept. 15 after it became clear a ship would not arrive before Oct. 10. The U.S. eventually paid $249 million to use Carnival Cruise Lines vessels.
And while television sets worldwide showed images of New Orleans residents begging to be rescued from rooftops as floodwaters rose, U.S. officials turned down countless offers of allied troops and search-and-rescue teams. The most common responses: "sent letter of thanks" and "will keep offer on hand," the new documents show.
Overall, the United States declined 54 of 77 recorded aid offers from three of its staunchest allies: Canada, Britain and Israel, according to a 40-page State Department table of the offers that had been received as of January 2006.
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Pledges and donations from countries Following Hurricane Katrina
Below is a list of countries who offered aid. Some of these efforts were not formally accepted by the U.S.
Afghanistan
Donated $100,000 to the hurricane victims.[3]
Albania
Donated $300,000.[4]
Argentina
Made offers of help and assistance. Argentina also dispatched an elite team of bilingual mental health professionals.[5]
Armenia
Pledged $200,000 and made offers of help and assistance.[6]
Australia
AUD 10 million (approximately USD 8-9 Million), and a team of 20 emergency response officers immediately. Donated AUD 10 million to American Red Cross.[7]
Austria
140 specialists of the AFDRU were put on stand-by. Their focus was to have been on providing clean water with portable water-treatment plants. Within the EU Emergency Assistance for Katrina, Austria set up a communication network using IT and communication equipment for assistance/support, provided 10 sets petrol driven dirty water pumps, 500 pieces tarps/plastic sheeting and 300 camp beds.[8]
Azerbaijan
Donated $500,000.[9]
The Bahamas
Pledged $50,000.
Bahrain
Donated $5 million.[10]
Bangladesh
Donated humanitarian aid worth $1 million and said it would send 160 disaster management experts, including doctors, nurses, engineers and others.
Belarus
Made offers of help and assistance.
Belgium
Offered 3 Medical teams of 31 personnel, logistic team of 10 personnel, coordination team of 4 personnel, civil engineering team of 10 personnel, diving team, and also balloon-lamps, low and high capacity pumps and small generators.[8]
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Made offers of help and assistance.
Brunei
Donated $1 million.[10]
Cambodia
The king donated $20,000 to match the $20,000 Cambodian government donation.
Canada
Main article: Canadian response to Hurricane Katrina
September 5, 35 military divers were poised to depart by air Sunday from Halifax and Esquimalt, B.C., for the New Orleans area.September 4, On the request from U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Canada sent thousands of beds, blankets, surgical gloves and dressings and other medical supplies. On September 2 the Government of Canada announced it was sending three warships along with a Coast Guard vessel, and three Sea King helicopters to the area. Over 1,000 personnel are involved in the operation, including engineers and navy divers. The Canadian Heavy Urban Search and Rescue out of Vancouver was in Louisiana from September 1, due to security they started their mission on Sept 3. Ontario Hydro, Hydro-Québec, and Manitoba Hydro, along with other electrical utilities, had crews set to go to the affected areas. On September 2 Air Canada participated along with U.S. member airlines of the Air Transport Association, in a voluntary airline industry initiative to support rescue and relief operations. Money donations although where very high, the province of Alberta alone threw in 5 million dollars alone. Although it is hard to put an exact number on Canadian cash donations because of some Canadians donating directly to the American agencies, but it is thought to be one of the highest international donors nation.
Chile
Made offers of help and assistance.
People's Republic of China
On September 2, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said that it will offer $5 million along with emergency supplies, including 1,000 tents, 600 generators, bed sheets, immediately for disaster relief. China also offered to send medical care and rescue workers if they were needed.[11] This aid package consisting of 104 tons of supplies later arrived in Little Rock, Arkansas.[12] A chartered plane carrying the supplies arrived on September 7.[13]
Colombia
Made offers of help and assistance.
Cuba
One of the first countries to offer aid, Cuba offered to send 1,586 doctors and 26 tons of medicine. This aid was rejected by the State Department.[14]
Cyprus
Offered $50,000.
Czech Republic
Offered rescue teams, field hospital and pumps and water processing equipment.
Denmark
Offered Water purification units.[8]
Djibouti
Offered $50,000.[2]
Dominica
Offered police to monitor hard-hit areas.
Dominican Republic
Offered rescue workers, doctors and nurses.
Ecuador
Made offers of help and assistance.
Egypt
Sent 2 C-130 planes loaded with blankets, medical equipment, and canned food.
El Salvador
Offered to send troops to help keep order in New Orleans.
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Pledges and donations from countries Following Hurricane Katrina
Equatorial Guinea
Pledged $500,000.
Finland
Sent Finn Rescue Force—the group consists of 30 firemen and three Red Cross logistics experts.. Additionally Finland offered 300 tents, a water purification unit, sterile gloves, bed sheets, pillow covers, tarps and first aid kits.
France
Main article: French response to Hurricane Katrina
Concrete help was refused by the US government initially, however on September 2, Condoleezza Rice said that the US authorities would assess the situation and contact French authorities accordingly. On September 4, US authorities formally requested French assistance. France offered disaster relief stocks prepositioned in Martinique (600 tents, around 1000 beds, 60 electrogenic groups, 3 pumps, 3 water purification stations, 1000 folding jerricanes and other material). A 35-person team of the Sécurité civile (Civil defence) from Guadeloupe and Martinique were made ready, and a 60-man "catastrophe intervention" aeromobile detachment were prepared to be ferried from mainland in a short time. The Ministry of Defence offered 2 planes already in the zone and 6 more from mainland France, and two ships of the French Navy (probably the BATRAL Francis Garnier or Champlain, and the frigate Ventôse) and a 20-person team of emergency medical specialists. The non-governmental organisation Télécoms sans frontières and the company Véolia environnement offered aid in communications and water management, respectively. On September 7, the Ministry for Foreign Affairs stated that an Airbus Beluga from Toulouse with 12,7 tonnes of supplies flew to Mobile, Alabama, after a brief stop in the UK to load more food.[15] Two Casa airplanes from Martinique landed in Little Rock, Arkansas, ferrying tents, covers and 1000 rations of food for 24 hours.[8][16][17]
Gabon
Pledged $500,000.[2]
Georgia
Made offers of help and assistance.
Germany
Two German Army Airbus planes landed in Florida with about 25 tonnes of food rations to be transported to the disaster area. Further planes were prepared. Germany offered airlifting, vaccination, water purification, medical supplies including German air force hospital planes, emergency electrical power and pumping services. The aid was ready to go on German air force and chartered planes. A team of specialists from THW (German federal agency for technical relief) were planning technical measures and logistics in close contact with local authorities. A team of 89 flood fighting specialists and 5 medical personnel were dispatched from Ramstein Air Base to Louisiana by the United States Air Force. They brought 15 high performance pumps (10 pumps with a capacity of 15,000 litres per minute and 5 pumps with a capacity of 5,000 litres per minute) and 28 vehicles.[18] On Saturday, September 10 at 4:30 p.m., the THW started the first 15,000 litre pump at pumping-station No. 19. Three other 15,000 litres pumps followed. The drainage of New Orleans would have taken much more time if these pumps and the THW specialists had not been provided.[19]
The Minister-President of the federal state of Rhineland-Palatinate addressed a letter to the commanders of the American forces stationed in his state offering financial support to those affected by the flooding.
Another German Air Force cargo plane carrying several thousand military rations (MRE) was denied entry into US airspace since, according to US authorities, they were not certified BSE-free. This was disputed by German authorities, pointing out that they were BSE-free according to NATO rules, that US soldiers would eat them regularly during joint operations (e.g. Afghanistan) and that these meals fully complied to UN rules.[20]
Greece
Offered $85,000[21], two cruise ships to house those left homeless, a rescue team, and supplies.
Guatemala
Made offers of help and assistance.
Guyana
Made offers of help and assistance and is organizing a telethon to raise money for victims.
Honduras
Offered 135 flooding and sanitation experts.
Hungary
Pledged $5,000 and offered to send a Special Search and Rescue Team, and also five doctors.
Iceland
Offered $500,000.
India
India offered to contribute $5 million to the United States Red Cross for relief and rehabilitation of the victims. They also offered to donate medicines and large water purification systems for use in households and small communities in the stricken areas, where potable water was a key concern.[22] India sent tarps, blankets and hygiene kits. An Indian Air Force IL-76 aircraft delivered 25 tonnes of relief supplies for the Hurricane Katrina victims at the Little Rock Air Force Base, Arkansas on September 13, 2005.[23]
Indonesia
Offered to send 45 doctors and 155 other medical staffers and 10,000 blankets to help survivors.
Iran
Offered to send humanitarian aid and 20 million barrels (3,200,000 m3) of crude oil.[17][24]
Iraq
Pledged $1 million to the Red Cross via the Red Crescent.
Republic of Ireland
Offered to send 30 members of the Irish Defence Forces. The Irish army would have supplied thousands of ready meals, tents, blankets, water purification services and medical aid, including first aid kits, crutches and wheelchairs. The group would have included about ten experts in stress debriefing. Six of the troops would have operated two water purification plants. The Irish Government also announced it is to provide initial funding of EUR 1.2 million for the victims.
Israel
Offered field hospitals and hundreds of doctors, nurses, technicians and other experts in trauma, natural disasters and public health.[25]
An Israeli airlift arrived in Little Rock, Arkansas with an eighty-ton shipment of humanitarian aid, including baby food, diapers, water, ready-to-eat meals, clothes, tents, blankets, mattresses, stretchers, first aid kits, wheelchairs, and other medical supplies.
The Magen David Adom began "United Brotherhood Operation," which sent a plane-load of supplies and financial assistance.
IsraAid sent a delegation of medical personnel, psychologists, and experienced search-and-rescue divers. The 18-member team — which included physicians, mental health professionals, trauma specialists, logistics experts and a special unit of Israeli police divers — arrived in St. Bernard Parish and Plaquemines Parish on Sept. 10 and spent a week and a half assisting fire department search-and-rescue squads and sitting in on daily planning meetings that included local leadership and a complement of Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), police, military and fire representativesmedical team.[26]
Five universities in Israel welcomed displaced American students from the affected areas and invited both undergraduate and graduate students to continue their studies in Israel.[27] In particular, medical students unable to attend the Tulane University in New Orleans can attend Tel Aviv University's Sackler School of Medicine.[28]
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It's sad that countries like Djibouti offered aid whereas a number of the world powers aren't on that list. If some of our allies weren't offering much I can only imagine how poorly they'll help the Haitians.
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MORE KATRINA DONATION OFFERINGS...
Italy
Italy offered to send two Hercules C130 cargo aircraft fitted with emergency aids, including 300 Adult camp beds, 300 blankets, 600 sheets, 1 suction pump, 6 lifecrafts, 11.200 chlorine tablets, 5 units of large first aid kits, baby food formula pumps, tents and power generators. Italy also offered to send some experts of the Protezione Civile to help coordinating relief efforts in the damaged area.[8]
Jamaica
Made offers of help and assistance.
Japan
The Japanese Foreign Ministry said that it would provide $200,000 to the American Red Cross to assist victims of Hurricane Katrina. Japan also identified needs in affected regions via the U.S. government and provided up to $300,000 in emergency supplies such as tents, blankets and power generators if they receive requests from the U.S. for such assistance. One Japanese individual, Takashi Endo, donated USD 1 million from his personal funds to Katrina relief efforts.[13]
Jordan
Made offers of help and assistance.
Kenya
Offered $100,000.[2] There were also early reports of $400 million in petroleum products being donated from Kenya, though these later proved to be erroneous.[29]
Korea, South
Offered $ 30 million and dispatched a rescue team.[13]
Kuwait
Parliament approved $500 million for aid in oil and other humanitarian aid.
Latvia
Offered a disaster relief team.
Lithuania
Made offers of help and assistance.
Luxembourg
Team of five persons, 1000 camp beds and 2000 blankets.[8]
Malaysia
Pledged $1 million to American Red Cross.
Maldives
Sent $25,000 to American Red Cross.
Mauritania
Promised $200,000 to American Red Cross.
Malta
Made offers of help and assistance.[8]
Mexico
Main article: Mexican response to Hurricane Katrina
Kelly Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas received almost 196 Mexican troops, 14 truckloads of water, a mobile surgical unit, 45 military vehicles, 3 tons of purified water, and more than 250 tons of food, bottled water, canned food, disposable diapers and medical supplies. The Mexican Government sent $1 million through the Mexican Red Cross which collected an additional million, as well as 200 tons of food delivered in five airplanes from the Mexican Air Force by another Mexican Government body. The Mexican Navy sent two ships, 385 troopers, eight all-terrain vehicles, seven amphibious vehicles, two tankers, two helicopters, radio communication equipment, medical personnel and 296 tons of food as well.
Mongolia
Pledged $50,000.
Nepal
Pledged $25,000.[30]
The Netherlands
Royal Netherlands Navy Frigate Hr. Ms. Van Amstel arrived from the Netherlands Antilles. The frigate was filled with supplies and had helicopters on board that can be used in rescue actions. Further, The Netherlands sent experts on the subject of water containment and dikes, identification teams and pumps to deliver clean drinking water, F-16s with sophisticated infra red or thermography camera pods (to look for weaknesses in the levees, corpses and hidden survivors) and divers from the Royal Netherlands Marine Corps. On September 7 The U.S. government announced that it would take up the Dutch government's offer to send water pumps, and also five water management experts.
New Zealand
Main article: New Zealand response to Hurricane Katrina
Pledged $2 million though the Red Cross. This contribution was in addition to the offers the government has already made to send an Urban Search and Rescue Team, a Disaster Victim Identification team or post disaster recovery personnel.[31]
Nicaragua
Made offers of help and assistance.
Nigeria
Pledged $1 million to hurricane disaster relief.
Norway
Made offers of help and assistance. An amount of NOK 10 million was given through the Norwegian Red Cross and the UN. In addition, Norway offered divers and medicines.
Oman
Pledged $15 million.
Pakistan
On September 4 Pakistan offered to send a team of doctors and paramedics to support the relief agencies. Pakistan also pledged $1 million through the Red Cross.
Palau
Pledged $50,000.
Papua New Guinea
Promised $10,000 to American Red Cross.
Paraguay
Made offers of help and assistance.
Peru
Offered to send 80-100 doctors to help survivors.
the Philippines
Offered to send a 25-member team of aid workers. The Philippines Red Cross donated $25,000.
Poland
Made offers of help and assistance.
Portugal
Offered tents, mattresses, blankets, hygiene kits. Portugal lent 2% of its strategic oil reserve, equivalent to 500,000 barrels (79,000 m3) of oil.[citation needed]
Qatar
Pledged $100 million to the victims.[32]
Romania
Offered 2 Teams of medical experts.[8]
Russia
Was one of the first countries to offer assistance. Up to four jets were placed on standby at the Ramenskoe airport near Moscow as early as August 30, including heavy Ilyushin Il-76-TDs with special evacuation equipment, medical equipment, a water-cleansing system, a rescue helicopter BK-117 and two special cars; and a passenger IL-62, which brought 10 coordinators and 50 rescuers, as well as 6 tons of drinking water. On September 6, the Bush administration gave its approval.[33]
Saudi Arabia
Saudi Refining, a Houston-based subsidiary of state oil firm Saudi Aramco, donated $5 million to the American Red Cross, as well as $250,000 from AGFUND.
Singapore
Main article: Singaporean response to Hurricane Katrina
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It's sad that countries like Djibouti offered aid whereas a number of the world powers aren't on that list. If some of our allies weren't offering much I can only imagine how poorly they'll help the Haitians.
Thats because most of these countries are FOFS on most issues while lecturing us how bad we are. That is why I have no problem with any president telling oother countries to STFU.
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the rest of the nations, along with world organizations that offered help, listed here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina
The world stepped up when the US was in trouble.
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the rest of the nations, along with world organizations that offered help, listed here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina
The world stepped up when the US was in trouble.
Not really. Most of those donations are a joke compared to what we hand out to their countries. I can only imagine how much, if any, they'll give the Haitians.
The world can feel free to prove me wrong, though. About time someone else starts carrying some of the weight with regards to helping others.
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I think other countries might step up MORE for haiti - because they know it might actually be accepted. During katrina, I think I recall this french (?) ship dropping anchor off new orleans with tons of rescue supplies, and we sent them away.
with their presidential palace even messed up, I"m guessing they take the help they need.
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Kuwait and Qatar step up and pledge $500 million and $100 million, respectively and Pakistan offers $1 million. Something seriously wrong, there. How many billions of dollars have we dumped into Pakistan in the last decade now?
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That's right, the people of the USA and that mean old government. Chances of China or the other world powers lending a hand? Close to 0.
Don't forget all the Christian groups and individuals from the USA that will help not only financially, but also by sending volunteers there who will put in time and energy helping the victims, taking supplies, food, medicine, etc.
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Don't forget all the Christian groups and individuals from the USA that will help not only financially, but also by sending volunteers there who will put in time and energy helping the victims, taking supplies, food, medicine, etc.
I just read that they fear up to 500,000 dead. OMFG.
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I just read that they fear up to 500,000 dead. OMFG.
Just saw that. Sad situation. The palace is completely destroyed.
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now they're talking temporary amnesty for haitians currently in the USA?
backdoor to amnesty going on here? :(
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Not really. Most of those donations are a joke compared to what we hand out to their countries.
i'm sure they'd offer a whole bunch more if we let em build bases here on US soil ;)
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Kuwait and Qatar step up and pledge $500 million and $100 million, respectively and Pakistan offers $1 million. Something seriously wrong, there. How many billions of dollars have we dumped into Pakistan in the last decade now?
hahaha a million bucks. some b-list celeb will probably contribute more money than that.
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wow, prisons collapsed and many prisoners on the loose.
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wow, prisons collapsed and many prisoners on the loose.
And people call me crazy for having my preperations for any crazy scenario going down.
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hahaha a million bucks. some b-list celeb will probably contribute more money than that.
Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie gave over $6 million to charity last year (I believe), on top of all the volunteer work they do. :D
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Kuwait and Qatar step up and pledge $500 million and $100 million, respectively and Pakistan offers $1 million. Something seriously wrong, there. How many billions of dollars have we dumped into Pakistan in the last decade now?
Statistically, religious people tend to donate much more than non-religious people.
The Judeo-Christian faith calls for donating no less than 10% of gross income, which goes toward helping orphans, widows, poor people, victims of disaster and spreading the faith. Many people of this faith donate even more than 10%.
The Muslim faith calls for donating 2.5% of gross income.
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Again, the U.S. gives the most financial and on the ground assistance in responce to a crisis.
I think we give far too much aid in general but happy to contribute my tax dollars to haitian people in the case of a natural disaster like this. It's incredibly sad how many have appeared to have died.
Now, we are in no position to rebuild their nation after the crisis, nor should we...but I am all for supporting Haiti's residents during their time of crisis.
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Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie gave over $6 million to charity last year (I believe), on top of all the volunteer work they do. :D
The pictures I have seen are heartbreaking.
How are the millions going to eat one week out from this?
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loco, with the taxes that our gov collects (and seem to be trying to raise), there won't be 10% left!
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loco, with the taxes that our gov collects (and seem to be trying to raise), there won't be 10% left!
I see what you are saying, and that definitely makes a difference in the numbers of people who donate! But when it comes to faith, tax hikes haven't stopped many faithful Christians with an income from giving 10% of it in thousands of years, no matter how much it hurts them.
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I see what you are saying, and that definitely makes a difference in the numbers of people who donate! But when it comes to faith, tax hikes haven't stopped many faithful Christians with an income from giving 10% of it in thousands of years, no matter how much it hurts them.
If the Federal Reserve can print dollars to fund the govt, why do we need to pay taxes in the first place?
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15 hours after the earthquake strikes, american teams will arrive on the ground to help.
Much improved from those Katrina days.
33, you are very wise to keep food and supplies on hand. I think most people should. No need to hoard like people did back in Y2k... but just have enough so that if anything happened, you wouldn't NEED to visit a walmart for a month or two.
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15 hours after the earthquake strikes, american teams will arrive on the ground to help.
Much improved from those Katrina days.
33, you are very wise to keep food and supplies on hand. I think most people should. No need to hoard like people did back in Y2k... but just have enough so that if anything happened, you wouldn't NEED to visit a walmart for a month or two.
I am trying a build a one month supply. Obviously I am far overweighted in certain areas if you know what I mean, but have been building up my reserves in other areas such as dried foods with long shelf lives, toiletries and crap like tooth paste, water tabs, etc.
If you do it slowly, its not that expensive.
I have a bunch of crap from these people:
http://www.mountainhouse.com
Also, www.sportsmansguide.com is a great site.
This thing is going to get really ugly in Haiti as water and food go scarce. We can only live 72 hours or a little longer without water.
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US: Two 72-man teams in there with high end urban rescue training... arriving shortly.
just shop at costco's, SAMs club, or BJs....
Spend $200 or 300 and you'll be good for at least a month on food.
toiletries, etc: Dollar store :)
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US: Two 72-man teams in there with high end urban rescue training... arriving shortly.
just shop at costco's, SAMs club, or BJs....
Spend $200 or 300 and you'll be good for at least a month on food.
toiletries, etc: Dollar store :)
My GF used to think I was crazy but is seeing the light. The funniest thing awas about a year or two ago, her father was arguing with me saying we were not heading for any trouble and I was exaggerating things. This was when TARP was being discussed. Now he wont admit I was right, but its sort of like an unspoken truth that little ole me was right while their brilliance was wrong.
As far as this goes, you are going to see a massive problem with people being fed and potable water.
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maybe.... my dad was a gun dealer 25 years ago and was always talking about the shit hitting the fan. It never happened, and while I hope for the best, like all smart people I prepare for the worst. It's not a huge change of lifestyle - you just buy a little extra of the stuff you're gonna eat anyway. It's cheaper to buy in bulk anyway, and it means you don't have to run to the grocery store 4 times a week and rub elbows with everyone.
i've done it all my life. when there's a hurricane and everyone's at walmart stabbing each other for batteries or gallon water, etc... i get to stay home arguing with you guys :)
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maybe.... my dad was a gun dealer 25 years ago and was always talking about the shit hitting the fan. It never happened, and while I hope for the best, like all smart people I prepare for the worst. It's not a huge change of lifestyle - you just buy a little extra of the stuff you're gonna eat anyway. It's cheaper to buy in bulk anyway, and it means you don't have to run to the grocery store 4 times a week and rub elbows with everyone.
i've done it all my life. when there's a hurricane and everyone's at walmart stabbing each other for batteries or gallon water, etc... i get to stay home arguing with you guys :)
Check these pics out. Horrible.
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/01/earthquake_in_haiti.html
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I'm cocked, locked and ready to rock. I've got a pack of bubble gum, some string and a paper clip. MacGyver style, bitches.
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Yeah, it's a real disaster. Those people are suffering. Glad the U.S. is there quickly.
Makes you wonder why things like this happen...for those of us that aren't immersed in faith that believe it's god or evil's will, it's very troubling.
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I'm cocked, locked and ready to rock. I've got a pack of bubble gum, some string and a paper clip. MacGyver style, bitches.
That little pea shooter going to do a lot of damage right BF? :o :o :o
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That little pea shooter going to do a lot of damage right BF? :o :o :o
Indeed. Worse comes to worst I'll broadcast Samson posts over a loud speaker and watch as people kill themselves from stupid overload.
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wow, those pictures are very sad.
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Indeed. Worse comes to worst I'll broadcast Samson posts over a loud speaker and watch as people kill themselves from stupid overload.
Ha ha. If you want one weapon to get, Remington 870 Express 12 Gauge or Saiga 12. The rest is gravy.
In a few days Haiti is going to be like Dawn of the Dead as those people will be hungry, angry, starving, and thirsty.
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Indeed. Worse comes to worst I'll broadcast Samson posts over a loud speaker and watch as people kill themselves from stupid overload.
LOL
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:(
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:(
Speechless.
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Waiting for the some of the extreme evangelical lunatics to blame this on their sinning!
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Waiting for the some of the extreme evangelical lunatics to blame this on their sinning!
UUGGHHHH - already done bro. www.huffingtonpost.com
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Waiting for the some of the extreme evangelical lunatics to blame this on their sinning!
I am an "extreme evangelical lunatic." I think it was a natural disaster.
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UUGGHHHH - already done bro. www.huffingtonpost.com
Wow.... That was quick... ;D
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/13/pat-robertson-haiti-curse_n_422099.html
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Are you people actually this fucking retarded ::) Oh, only the USA can come to the rescue ::) The others couldn't possibly be even willing. Dipshits, Venezuela and Cuba have already send a great deal of aid in one form or another to Haiti. Cuba even tried to help us during Katrina faster than Bush showed a sign of caring. You really think Hugo looks the other way on this? You really think Cuba isn't sending more doctors past the ones they already had there? hahahaha, oh brother, I love America but you people with superiority complexes greater than Lex Luther really make me ill. I really don't think you do America any favors talking like we're the only thing ever great to happen and the rest of the world are lowlifes lucky to exist.
I think Marxist Chavez is about to lose his country after his devaluation scheme and people are about to topple that fat asshole communist POFS.
If he cant feed his own people, how are they going to feed these poor hatians.
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240, you're wasting your time with BF. You clearly made his post look like dumb and dumber but he'll never admit it.
How so? Those big bad Americans give more to charity and the govt. gives more aid than any other country in the world. Linking a bunch of $50,000 donations (or $1 million from Pakistan) when we give out billions every year doesn't prove shit.
China's the fastest growing country in the world yet they're too busy destroying the rights of people in Tibet to bother giving out aid. Just look at the job they're already pulling on Africa. ::)
It's time the USA stops pulling the majority of the charitable weight around the world. Americans are chastised as assholes and what not and yet they're giving more money than most people. Not to mention all the Americans that are going to go down to Haiti to volunteer their services. Americans from all over the country are dropping what they're doing and heading down to Haiti to help.
How many Venezuelans are going to go help? Hugo will ship off a few things and send a few dozen people, no doubt. Just enough to make it look like he actually gives a shit. ::)
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Q. How much do Americans give? Is the amount we give going up?
A. In 2006, Americans gave about $295 billion to charity. This was up 4.2 percent over 2005 levels, and charitable giving has generally risen faster than the growth of the American economy for more than half a century. Correcting for inflation and population changes, GDP per person in America has risen over the past 50 years by about 150 percent, while charitable giving per person has risen by about 190 percent. That is, the average American family has gotten much richer in real terms over the past half century, and charitable giving has more than kept pace with this trend.
Q. So where do the donations go?
A. A large majority of U.S. citizens donate money each year to houses of worship and charitable organizations. Most estimates place the percentage of American households that make monetary contributions each year at 70 to 80 percent, and the average American household contributes more than $1,000 annually. But it is not the case that American giving goes entirely—or even mostly—to religious institutions. About a third of individual gifts go toward sacramental activities, primarily supporting houses of worship. The rest goes to secular activities, such as education, health, and social welfare.
Q. Are Americans more or less charitable than citizens of other countries?
A. No developed country approaches American giving. For example, in 1995 (the most recent year for which data are available), Americans gave, per capita, three and a half times as much to causes and charities as the French, seven times as much as the Germans, and 14 times as much as the Italians. Similarly, in 1998, Americans were 15 percent more likely to volunteer their time than the Dutch, 21 percent more likely than the Swiss, and 32 percent more likely than the Germans. These differences are not attributable to demographic characteristics such as education, income, age, sex, or marital status. On the contrary, if we look at two people who are identical in all these ways except that one is European and the other American, the probability is still far lower that the European will volunteer than the American.
Damn, Americans really are assholes. ::)
Europeans get MUCH more vacation time to boot. Guess they can't be bothered to help out their fellow man.
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Q. How much do Americans give? Is the amount we give going up?
A. In 2006, Americans gave about $295 billion to charity. This was up 4.2 percent over 2005 levels, and charitable giving has generally risen faster than the growth of the American economy for more than half a century. Correcting for inflation and population changes, GDP per person in America has risen over the past 50 years by about 150 percent, while charitable giving per person has risen by about 190 percent. That is, the average American family has gotten much richer in real terms over the past half century, and charitable giving has more than kept pace with this trend.
Q. So where do the donations go?
A. A large majority of U.S. citizens donate money each year to houses of worship and charitable organizations. Most estimates place the percentage of American households that make monetary contributions each year at 70 to 80 percent, and the average American household contributes more than $1,000 annually. But it is not the case that American giving goes entirely—or even mostly—to religious institutions. About a third of individual gifts go toward sacramental activities, primarily supporting houses of worship. The rest goes to secular activities, such as education, health, and social welfare.
Q. Are Americans more or less charitable than citizens of other countries?
A. No developed country approaches American giving. For example, in 1995 (the most recent year for which data are available), Americans gave, per capita, three and a half times as much to causes and charities as the French, seven times as much as the Germans, and 14 times as much as the Italians. Similarly, in 1998, Americans were 15 percent more likely to volunteer their time than the Dutch, 21 percent more likely than the Swiss, and 32 percent more likely than the Germans. These differences are not attributable to demographic characteristics such as education, income, age, sex, or marital status. On the contrary, if we look at two people who are identical in all these ways except that one is European and the other American, the probability is still far lower that the European will volunteer than the American.
Damn, Americans really are assholes. ::)
Europeans get MUCH more vacation time to boot. Guess they can't be bothered to help out their fellow man.
I thank God my ancestors left Europe for America. I cant stand Europeeons.
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I thank God my ancestors left Europe for America. I cant stand Europeeons.
But Americans are the assholes. L-O-L. ::)
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But Americans are the assholes. L-O-L. ::)
No we are not. Its opposite of that. Most Europeeons I have met a miserable pricks looking for a handout.
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No we are not. Its opposite of that. Most Europeeons I have met a miserable pricks looking for a handout.
Indeed.
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I find it suspicious events like this occur in the shitholes of the world nobody really cares about. HAARP is capable pulling off earthquakes and tsunamis among other things. I wouldn't be surprised if they have experimented with it in just this fashion.
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I find it suspicious events like this occur in the shitholes of the world nobody really cares about. HAARP is capable pulling off earthquakes and tsunamis among other things. I wouldn't be surprised if they have experimented with it in just this fashion.
::)
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Wow! A new one!
http://www.letxa.com/issue_haarp.php (http://www.letxa.com/issue_haarp.php)
HAARP refers to the High-Frequency Active Auroal Research Program and consists of a phased array transmitted which is pictured to the right. It is located at approximately 62.39N, 145.15W near the town of Gakona, Alaska.
The purpose of HAARP is to analyze the behavior of the ionosphere which is the part of the atmosphere that extends from approximately 70km up to as much as 1500km. In this area of the atmosphere approximately 0.1% is made up of ionized plasma created by the sun's natural ultraviolet radiation. The ionosphere itself is made up of three layers known, in increasing altitudes, as the D (70-110km), E (110km-250km), and F (250+ km) layers and whose position may be determined by how they interact with radio waves. The exact altitude of the layers changes naturally and constantly. While the "E" layer and part of the "F" layer reflect radio waves, the lowest level--the "D" layer--actually tends to absorb them. Since different parts of the ionosphere absorb or reflect radio waves it can and does have a direct effect on radio waves that passes through it, be it earth-to-earth radio or signals being transmitted to or from satellites.
The purpose of HAARP is to research, both passively as well as actively, the behavior of the ionosphere. This is done by transmitting a focused beam of radio frequency energy, at between 2.8 and 10MHz, directly at a point in the ionosphere between 100 and 350 km in altitude, basically within the "E" layer. The energy focused in this area of the ionosphere lets the HAARP facility monitor the behavior of that area of the ionosphere during the test.
It should be stated that although the facility's total transmitting power is 3.6 megawatts, only about 80% (2.8 megawatts) actually reaches the ionosphere due to antenna inefficiencies (Source).
THE CONSPIRACY THEORIES
The conspiracy theories related to HAARP pretty much run the entire spectrum of the imagination of conspiracy theorists. Many of the theories are summarized on sites such as this one.
* Earthquakes: Sites such as this one suggest that HAARP has the capability to cause earthquakes at practically any point on earth. As best I can tell, they suggest that HAARP modifies the ionosphere and, consequently, modifies the magnetosphere. The site above says "The magnetosphere is vital to the stability of the tectonic plates that float on the surface of the earth". However, I haven't found any site, other than similar conspiracy sites, that substantiates any connection between the magnetosphere and stability of tectonic plates. Fluctuations in the magnetosphere are associated with auroral activity, commonly known as the "Northern Lights." Given that the sun causes fluctuations in the magnetosphere constantly and causes significant fluctuations during solar storms, the lack of a link between solar activity and earthquakes further calls into question a link beteen the magnetosphere and plate tectonics. Lacking documentation of a connection between the magnetosphere and tectonic stability, a connection between HAARP and earthquakes is speculation not based on science.
* Missile Tracking: It seems that Jerry E. Smith has created a niche market writing conspiracy books about HAARP and suggesting that, while it was once a research facility, it is now a full-fledged missile tracking system. He believes that HAARP can aim its radio frequency beam at will (actually it can only aim straight up) and that it is in violation of several treaties. As far as I can tell--and I admit I haven't bought his book--there doesn't seem to be any evidence to support his claims and some of them seem to be in direct contradiction to reality. HAARP cannot be aimed anywhere but straight up. He also subscribes to the theory that HAARP effects the magnetosphere which effects plate tectonics. In fact, the site above (PropagandaMatrix) actually seems to have quoted Smith regarding the connection between the stability of plate tectonics and the magnetosphere. Where Smith got it, however, I haven't been able to determine. This man believes that patriots are fools and his main interest in HAARP seems to be in generating interest and paranoia to stoke sales of his book. His history includes writing poems, science fiction and fantasy, and in the 90's he started writing about AIDS, UFOs, and then HAARP. In fact, his first non-fiction work was "HAARP: Ultimate Weapon of the Conspiracy" and it would seem that the "non-fictional" status blurs the line between fiction and non-fiction.
* Missile Defense: The RadarMatrix site goes one step further than the missile tracking proposed by Jerry E. Smith. The webmaster of RadarMatrix suggests that HAARP is actually the Strategic Defense Initiative and is capable of destroying incoming missiles. There is simply nothing to support this claim and the suggestion that civilian scientists would be present and operating the HAARP facility were that it's real use seems rather improbable.
* Weather Control: Also promoted by RadarMatrix and other sites is the belief that HAARP can control the weather. This theory is also endorsed by Mr. Smith. In the case of RadarMatrix, this is tied into the radar anomalies observed at NEXRAD weather radar sites. Again, there is no evidence to support this. HAARP does its work in the 100km-350km altitude range within the E and F levels of the ionosphere while all weather occurs in the troposphere which only extends up to about 14-18km. I've seen no explanation by those that subscribe to the HAARP/Weather Control theory how it is that HAARP can control the weather when it is operating at an altitude at least 7 times higher than where weather occurs. Again, it seems there is no scientific or logical reason to believe a HAARP/Weather Control conspiracy.
* Mind Control: You probably knew it was coming, but there are those that believe that HAARP can actually offer some kind of mind control or "mood" control. Again, Jerry E. Smith is no stranger to this theory and his HAARP book discusses this, too. According to this site (and I have not verified the information), certain extremely low frequency (6-11 Hertz) waves can cause a person to feel good or depressed. Apparently those that believe in HAARP mind control have somehow come to believe that HAARP not only operates at these frequencies (rather than the 2,700,000 - 10,000,000 Hertz it is known to operate at), but that it can somehow do it remotely--i.e., somehow target the "mind control" to other areas of the earth from Alaska. Once again, it's not so much the evidence against this theory as it is the complete lack of any evidence to support it.
As you can see, you can pretty much pick whatever you want to believe HAARP is capable of and you'll probably find some conspiracy theory promotes that belief. People like Jerry Smith have pretty much decided to pick all of them. But what all these theories have in common is a lack of scientific basis or supporting evidence. They are all based on speculation and usually cite each other as sources for the information providing a very convenient "circular logic" that allows them to build the theories higher and higher while never providing any real evidence for any of it.
DETECTING HAARP ACTIVITY
Sites such as this one suggest that they can detect when HAARP is active by listening to 3.39MHz. In this case, the site indicates that HAARP came on in a "standby mode at the highest daytime transmitter power." Ignoring for a moment the fact that "standby" and "highest transmitter power" seem to be direct contradictions, HAARP doesn't have a "standby" mode nor does it nor has it transmitted at 3.39MHz except for a HAARP-to-HAM radio test years ago. (Source). Sites that suggest that they can detect when HAARP is operating based on monitoring the 3.39MHz frequency seem to be barking up the wrong tree.
THE PATENTS
Something else that conspiracy theorists will point to are registered patents that have something to do with HAARP.
1. Patent 4,686,605
"Method and apparatus for altering a region in the earth's atmosphere, ionosphere, and/or magnetosphere"
This patent is referred to as the key document.
However, this patent covers a technology whereby "excitation of electron cyclotron resonance is about 1 watt per cubic centimeter" while HAARP only achieves 3 microwatts per cm2--thus the patent specifies an energy 333,333 times greater than what HAARP is capable of. Further, the patent requires "excitation of electron cyclotron resonance is initially carried out within the ionosphere and is continued for a time sufficient to allow said region to rise above said ionosphere". In other words, it is the intent of this patent to actually move plasma from the ionosphere above the ionosphere. HAARP does not do this.
In short, the "evils" attributed to this patent (interference with satellites, aircraft, missiles, etc.) depends to a great extent in applying over 300,000 times as much power as HAARP is capable of applying. Considering that 3.6 Megawatts is needed by HAARP to achieve 3 microwatts per cm2, it would appear that the device described in the patent would require 300,000 times that: 1,080,000 megawatts which is 1.08 terawatts.
Let's put that in perspective.
If we compare that to the fact that the world currently consumes about 12 trillion watts (12 terawatts) we can conclude that the energy consumed by HAARP to achieve the power indicated by the patent would require approximately 8% of all the energy currently produced in the world. That's basically the same amount of power consumed by the countries of the United Kingdom, Mexico, Italy, Spain and Pakistan put together. (Source).
Alternatively, it's over 1/4th of all the power production capability of the United States.
Another way of looking at it is that the most powerful nuclear reactors in the U.S. are capable of producing about 1.1 megawatts of electricity each. So HAARP would need about 1000 nuclear plants to generate all the power it would need.
And they get all this power out of six 3600-HP diesel generators? (Source). Or where, in the picture to the right, do we see sufficient energy production capability?
2. Patent 5,068,669
"Power Beaming System"
Another patent that conspiracists point to is this one that is owned by the same company (APTI) that owns the previous patent. The suggestion, I guess, is that if they own a patent similar to HAARP and they also own this patent that relates to beaming energy from one place to another, that HAARP must be beaming energy.
However, the technology described in this patent is very different from that at HAARP.
1. This patent speaks of electromagnetic radiation produced at frequencies of 18-35 GHz while HAARP is only capable of operating between 2.8 and 10.0 MHz. The frequencies required by this patent are about 6000 times higher than that produced by HAARP.
2. This patent requires transmitting antennas on a "movable pedestal." HAARP simply does not have such a movable pedestal.
3. This patent speaks of a single antenna whereas HAARP has 180 individual antennas.
4. This patent speaks of transmitting relatively low amounts of power to an airborne object, such as a plane or satellite. Much of the patent talks about the fact that the device receiving the energy must transmit a "tracking signal" so that the system may beam the energy to the right place. HAARP does not have such a capability. Even if it did, this patent covers energy transmission to an airborne object, not ground-to-ground energy transmission nor does it provide a way for HAARP to "target" its energy to some specific point on earth.
There seems to be no relation between HAARP and this patent whatsoever.
3. Patent 5,041,834
"Artificial ionospheric mirror composed of a plasma layer which can be tilted"
This patent is very similar to the first one mentioned above in that it discussed an atmospheric ionospheric mirror (AIM). The only real difference is this one talks about how to create such an AIM that has an angle to it. That is, the first patent talks about an AIM created at a specific altitude while this one talks about how to create it with an angle. This would allow a radio wave to be bounced off it with more accuracy.
This patent does, in fact, talk about aiming a radio wave, but it should be noted that the work of the antennas themselves are always right above the installation. It can't create such an AIM somewhere else--only right above it. It is assumed that another antenna near the installation would then transmit a communication signal and bounce it off the ionospheric mirror and, thus, achieve communication over the curvature of the earth. But, still, the radio signal bounced off the AIM could only be bounced to points that are visible from wherever the ionospheric mirror is created. Even at 100-350km you couldn't reach the other side of the world to target earthquakes in Iran like some sites suggest.
In summary, they point to interesting patents but the patents themselves don't accurately describe HAARP. About the only thing they have in common is that they both modify, in some way, the ionosphere.
THE HYPE
Many websites talk about HAARP and state erroneous information and, based on that, take them to their illogical conclusion. Some common inaccurate information is:
1. Power of HAARP in Billions of Watts. Sites such as this claim that HAARP is capable of transmitting a billion watts and eventually will be able to transmit 4.7 billion wants. In fact, the transmission power of HAARP is limited to 3.6 million watts, of which only 80% (2.8 million watts) is actually transmitted into the ionosphere due to antenna inefficiencies. Sites like the one just cited misstate the power of HAARP by over 3 orders of magnitude--that is, they're off by more than a factor of 1000. So far I haven't seen any of these sites provide any factual basis for their claims.
2. HAARP has Ground-Penetrating Capabilities. This site claims that in 1994 the Congress froze "funding on HAARP until planners increased emphasis on earth-penetrating uses for nuclear proliferation efforts." The only thing I've found that comes close to this claim is this document which reads (on page 728):
"Of the funds authorized in fiscal year of 1996, the conferees recommend that $1.5 million be available for the exploration of the "deep digger" concept for hard target characterization, and that $5.0 million be available for the high frequency active auroral research program (HAARP)."
While HAARP is mentioned in the same sentence as something that would appear to be "ground-penetrating" (i.e. the deep digger), reading the above excerpt causes me to think that the deep digger concept and HAARP are two separate issues. Certainly the only thing that remotely links them is that they're mentioned so close together, but the sentence structure doesn't appear to me to necessarily link the two.
CONCLUSION
HAARP almost definitely exists for its stated purpose. While it is not impossible that research conducted there may eventually yield information that is of military value, this is true of virtually any research in any field.
There doesn't seem to be any convincing evidence, however, that HAARP can cause earthquakes, control the weather, detect missiles, destroy missiles, or engage in mind control. These theories appear to be vague speculation from conspiracy theorists that cite each other as sources and, thus, build theories that have no factual basis.
Of course, it is always possible that information in the future could show that something clandestine is occurring at HAARP. But until such information or evidence is made available there is simply no basis in fact to believe any of the wild conspiracy theories as they relate to HAARP. It would seem much more probable that the theories are simply the result of active imaginations on the part of conspiracy theorists and/or the efforts of certain quacks to sell their books and DVDs on the topic.
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Let me rephrase it for you, Hugo. Sending $50,000 or a dozen volunteers does not qualify as help.
And it's about time Venezuela FINALLY did some good. Funny they've got money to throw around while their citizens live in poverty. Socialism works! ::)
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Tsunami Relief Donations...
Pledged amounts as percentages of GDP: USA was 18th
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanitarian_response_to_the_2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake#Pledged_amounts_as_percentages_of_GDP
Pledged amounts on a per capita basis: We don't even rank.
We gave a lot and did a lot for Tsunami relief, but many of these countries did a lot too.
I don't know where anyone gets the belief we bail everyone out. We don't.
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Q. How much do Americans give? Is the amount we give going up?
A. In 2006, Americans gave about $295 billion to charity. This was up 4.2 percent over 2005 levels, and charitable giving has generally risen faster than the growth of the American economy for more than half a century. Correcting for inflation and population changes, GDP per person in America has risen over the past 50 years by about 150 percent, while charitable giving per person has risen by about 190 percent. That is, the average American family has gotten much richer in real terms over the past half century, and charitable giving has more than kept pace with this trend.
Q. So where do the donations go?
A. A large majority of U.S. citizens donate money each year to houses of worship and charitable organizations. Most estimates place the percentage of American households that make monetary contributions each year at 70 to 80 percent, and the average American household contributes more than $1,000 annually. But it is not the case that American giving goes entirely—or even mostly—to religious institutions. About a third of individual gifts go toward sacramental activities, primarily supporting houses of worship. The rest goes to secular activities, such as education, health, and social welfare.
Q. Are Americans more or less charitable than citizens of other countries?
A. No developed country approaches American giving. For example, in 1995 (the most recent year for which data are available), Americans gave, per capita, three and a half times as much to causes and charities as the French, seven times as much as the Germans, and 14 times as much as the Italians. Similarly, in 1998, Americans were 15 percent more likely to volunteer their time than the Dutch, 21 percent more likely than the Swiss, and 32 percent more likely than the Germans. These differences are not attributable to demographic characteristics such as education, income, age, sex, or marital status. On the contrary, if we look at two people who are identical in all these ways except that one is European and the other American, the probability is still far lower that the European will volunteer than the American.
Damn, Americans really are assholes. ::)
Europeans get MUCH more vacation time to boot. Guess they can't be bothered to help out their fellow man.
Feel free to read this, 240.
And, as it seems to be so nicely ignored, I was specifically speaking about the other major world powers. Most of these world powers are conveniently MISSING from any of these lists. I don't care about countries like Qatar. Although I do find it embarrassing that small countries (without much to gain from donating abroad) are pulling more weight than "glorious" countries like China or Russia.
For example, the Chinese donated $63 million as opposed to the American's $2.875 billion.
Nor do these lists account for how many Americans will travel abroad to help. There are already thousands of Americans making their way down to Haiti to assist in any way they can. How many other countries are moving more than a few dozen people?
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americans - as a people - are very charitable.
Our govt does give... but 17 other nations gave more to the Tsunami areas.
This isn't a "us vs. them" deal.... but any statement that "we do more than anyone else!!!" is off.
It's charity... there's no dick-measuring contest going on here...
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Measuring donations as a part of GDP (as you're so apt to do) is a pretty error prone method.
For example, as wikipedia links:
Pledged amounts as percentages of GDP
The table below examines the amounts pledged for humanitarian efforts in light of rough national economic power, which is arguably a more useful measures. There are a number of caveats that should be kept in mind while reading the table:
1. The figures do not include the cost of operating military resources deployed to provide aid, and it is unclear how this should be quantified. While some would argue that military resources are already paid for and that the relief effort can be regarded as a logistics training exercise, the increased operational costs are an unbudgeted expenditure. Others would argue that the military resources provide the only infrastructure that will deliver aid in a timely manner to save lives to the hardest hit and neediest areas, and without this quickly deployable infrastructure the other contributions, no matter how large would be useless or arrive too late.
2. The figures do not tell anything about the rate in which the money will be spent. How much of the money is going to be spent this year and how much is reserved for long-term reconstructions efforts is not reflected by this table.
3. Use of Gross Domestic Product (or Gross National Product) should be treated with caution as this does not accurately measure a country's ability to provide aid. Similarly, whether to use 'nominal' or 'real' GNP/GDPs can be argued. Some GDP/GNP figures are also out of date e.g. for the year 2002, or even 2001, so comparisons between countries may not be for the same time period. A better comparison might be used by examining Purchasing Power Parity-adjusted GDP/GNP figures (as used in the CIA factbook).
4. It can be argued, the quality of aid differs as "aid" is an ambiguous term that may cover a wide variety of methods, including 'soft' loans (where the money has to be repaid with interest albeit at below market rates), and 'tied aid' (where the money has to be spent buying goods and services from the donating country). The terms by which the aid is accepted play a large role in determining how useful it is and also affect the relative cost to the donating country.
5. This is aid for one particular disaster. Without knowing how much aid the various countries and their people donate to other disasters, one cannot draw conclusions on their overall level of generosity.
6. The numbers below are the pledged contributions. Arguably, only funds that are actually transferred should be counted.
7. The amounts pledged by individual sovereign nations within the European Union should be increased by amounts pledged by the European Union itself.
The first point is a good point to look at it. The US military, for example, was very, very, VERY active after the tsunami.
So, any statement that "we do more" is most likely spot on. There are thousands of websites that refute this. You don't, though. And your entire argument is centered on the very faulty use of donations per GDP.
Edit: The more I read over this, the more idiotic measuring aid by percentage of GDP looks. It accounts for nothing beyond "pledged amounts" of money. This, along with the fact you ignored some other glaring statistics to prove your point makes your argument look pretty dumb.
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then i concede % of GDP due to incomplete info.
What about the fact we're 18th in total donations?
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I just read that they fear up to 500,000 dead. OMFG.
good lord...
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WTF? arguing over who is giving the most? America has the ability to send our navy to any region in the world and provide relief, no other country can do that. Every country sends or donates what it is able, good on them for it.
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That's right, the people of the USA and that mean old government. Chances of China or the other world powers lending a hand? Close to 0.
France is on the way. NOT
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then i concede % of GDP due to incomplete info.
What about the fact we're 18th in total donations?
No. We're 18th by money pledged as percentage of GDP, which as wikipedia even points out, is to be taken with a grain of salt. We're #1 on total donations, having pleged over $2.875 billion. Australia is the next closest at $1.33 billion pledged. And going by that countries listed there, no one else even came close to having pledged $1 billion or more.
best post of the thread.
I have no idea what the purpose of calling out other countries not being able to do what we do. They give what they can and as 240 has shown, it's not peanuts. Of course they're not going to be able to do what we've done or still can do. BF made it sound like they don't even give a rats ass. Even Cuba will be sending a shit load of medical aid.
You seem mad. The Venezuelans/Cubans toil away living in poverty and yet the Venezuelan and Cuban governments miraculously come up with $1 billion dollars to pledge. Socialism works! ::)
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The doctor in this vid explains how he used ELF waves to cause an earthquake.
Also interesting is Norway has one of these devices. The strange spiral seen in the sky in Oslo Norway occurred the day Obama accepted his peace prize in Oslo.
Haiti would be an ideal testing ground for the unbelievable sick individuals running the show
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me mad at you :o Like I've admitted all along, you're annoying like a mosquito.
Is that why you follow me around Getbig like a lost dog?
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::) dream that up? you certainly can't back it up.... You're the one that starts all kinds of threads about me. I don't think I've ever started a thread about you.
You've followed me into the Y and other boards you don't post on. ::)
It's alright. I've had a fan club on here for years now.