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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Mixed Martial Arts (MMA/UFC) => Topic started by: Benny B on March 31, 2010, 07:09:35 PM
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Kenny Florian chokes out Gomi.
Discuss.
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I don't know why Kenny is still at 155? He'll work his way back up only for BJ to destroy him again. I can only watch that so many times. Maybe he'll drop to 145 when he realizes he'll never have the lightweight belt.
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We need some PRIDE fanboys stuck in 2004 to aid in this discussion! I know there are at least one or two lurking around these parts... :P
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I don't know why Kenny is still at 155? He'll work his way back up only for BJ to destroy him again. I can only watch that so many times. Maybe he'll drop to 145 when he realizes he'll never have the lightweight belt.
It does suck for Kenny. He is good, but not quite good enough for BJ. But who else can compete closely with BJ at 170? I am sure Kenny wants to test himself against the best by staying at 155.
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We need some PRIDE fanboys stuck in 2004 to aid in this discussion! I know there are at least one or two lurking around these parts... :P
Agree 100%....It is becoming clearer all the time. PRIDE guys have not fared well in the UFC.
Wonder how FEDOR would do? It's very obvious the talent on the UFC is not like PRIDE talent ;D
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Gomi looked like the TUFer ;D
The beating Florian gave Gomi was shameful
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Gomi is past his prime. If I was Dana I'd make him fight Melvin Guillard next. If Melvin beats him, I'd cut him.
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It does suck for Kenny. He is good, but not quite good enough for BJ. But who else can compete closely with BJ at 170? I am sure Kenny wants to test himself against the best by staying at 155.
Jose Aldo is fixing to run out of people to beat up at 145, im sure he would love to add Kenny's skull to his pile.
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Jose Aldo is fixing to run out of people to beat up at 145, im sure he would love to add Kenny's skull to his pile.
Another big reason why Florian wants to stay at 155 is the bigger names, bigger paydays, and more recognition. Let's face it , the 145 class is not the most popular division in MMA. Aldo/Florian would be a great match-up. Perhaps Aldo could move up someday? Just don't see Florian stepping down to the WEC. In his eyes, I am sure he thinks he has a chance against BJ.
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Gomi is past his prime. If I was Dana I'd make him fight Melvin Guillard next. If Melvin beats him, I'd cut him.
LOL...because lord knows if Melvin loses.....he'll probably still get a title shot by years end. ;D
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Florian is second only to BJ at 155 imo. But overall 155 is a pretty deep division-- Sanchez, Guida, BJ, Florian, Diaz, Tyson Griffin, Joe Daddy, that Aussie up and comer that destroyed joe daddy, the guy BJ is fighting at UFC 112, now add Gomi to the mix and on and on. Maybe Florian will earn another title shot down the road and BJ will take him lightly. Who knows--
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Florian is second only to BJ at 155 imo. But overall 155 is a pretty deep division-- Sanchez, Guida, BJ, Florian, Diaz, Tyson Griffin, Joe Daddy, that Aussie up and comer that destroyed joe daddy, the guy BJ is fighting at UFC 112, now add Gomi to the mix and on and on. Maybe Florian will earn another title shot down the road and BJ will take him lightly. Who knows--
A Florian/Diego match up would be good.
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Where are the Pride nuthuggers ???
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Another big reason why Florian wants to stay at 155 is the bigger names, bigger paydays, and more recognition. Let's face it , the 145 class is not the most popular division in MMA. Aldo/Florian would be a great match-up. Perhaps Aldo could move up someday? Just don't see Florian stepping down to the WEC. In his eyes, I am sure he thinks he has a chance against BJ.
I see Kenny getting one more title shot, and after that I really don't see Dana letting it happen again if he fails. Although I'd like to see him fight Tyson Griffin or Frankie Edgar. BJ has Kenny's number no matter what he does, Dana stepped in and suggested Rich Franklin's move up to do the catch weight fights and the 205lb fights since he knew ACE had no chance at 185 with Anderson, I can see that happening with Kenflo if BJ Smokes him again.
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Come on guys... We have to give Gomi a slight break, Hasn't fought in a cage & has fought only one with a loss to Diaz in the U.S. that shit can play games with your mind right thurr.
Give him 1-2 more fights, if he looks like Vera then thats to bad for the Fireball kid. :-\
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Agree 100%....It is becoming clearer all the time. PRIDE guys have not fared well in the UFC.
Wonder how FEDOR would do? It's very obvious the talent on the UFC is not like PRIDE talent ;D
really?
big nog - heavyweight champ
rampage - light heavyweight champ
anderson silva - middle weight champ
shogun - should be light heavyweight champ and smashed ufc poster boy chuck liddell, which brings me to my next point chuck was the champ the last time pride aired a show
none of the top guys then (aside from the great fedor) are still top guys today
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Big Nog got demolished by Mir & Cain
Rampage lost to a TUF winner
Of his nearly 30 fights, only 5 were in Pride (11 in the UFC). Anderson is not really a Pride guy.
Shogun also lost to a TUF winner.
Earl, come on man. You have no idea what you're talking about ::)
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Big Nog got demolished by Mir & Cain
Rampage lost to a TUF winner
Of his nearly 30 fights, only 5 were in Pride (11 in the UFC). Anderson is not really a Pride guy.
Shogun also lost to a TUF winner.
Earl, come on man. You have no idea what you're talking about ::)
none of what you said changes the facts i listed ::), those pride fighters came into ufc and immediately became champs
anderson lost to ryo chonan lol
3 years ago randy and chuck were ufc champs when pride had their last show
both got owned by pride fighters, heck chuck got owned by a TUF loser haha
if you're going to say that the pride big boys from back then aren't any good today, neither are the ufc stars from those days
the sport has changed, but pride had the best fighters at their peak
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none of what you said changes the facts i listed ::), those pride fighters came into ufc and immediately became champs
anderson lost to ryo chonan lol
3 years ago randy and chuck were ufc champs when pride had their last show
both got owned by pride fighters, heck chuck got owned by a TUF loser haha
if you're going to say that the pride big boys from back then aren't any good today, neither are the ufc stars from those days
the sport has changed, but pride had the best fighters at their peak
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PRIDE may have had the best fighters at one point, but we will never really now. But as you stated, the sport has changed greatly.
Time for Fedor to step up and fight the CURRENT best to maintain his #1 status.
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none of what you said changes the facts i listed ::), those pride fighters came into ufc and immediately became champs
anderson lost to ryo chonan lol
3 years ago randy and chuck were ufc champs when pride had their last show
both got owned by pride fighters, heck chuck got owned by a TUF loser haha
if you're going to say that the pride big boys from back then aren't any good today, neither are the ufc stars from those days
the sport has changed, but pride had the best fighters at their peak
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TUF guys beating UFC guys does nothing for making Pride guys better. Oh, and Chuck beat Wandy..ha!
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TUF guys beating UFC guys does nothing for making Pride guys better. Oh, and Chuck beat Wandy..ha!
Can't forget about Heath Herring's amazing run in the UFC. A wet behind the ears Brock ended his career :o
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TUF guys beating UFC guys does nothing for making Pride guys better. Oh, and Chuck beat Wandy..ha!
you mentioned tuf guys to make pride guys look bad, even though tuf guys have beaten ufc poster boys like liddell and ortiz
like i said the sport has changed, there are new young elite fighters and elite fighters from the past either got old or the new blood has surpassed them, but when the two organizations merged almost 3 years ago to the day, pride fighters immediately became the champs
chuck and randy were ufc champs then, i'd say nog looks like a better heavyweight than randy and tim sylvia today, shogun and rampage look like better lhw's than chuck
and they proved it, don't let the facts get in the way of your blind lust for the ufc :-*
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Can't forget about Heath Herring's amazing run in the UFC. A wet behind the ears Brock ended his career :o
when was heath herring ever a champ in pride? what big wins did he have in pride?
i admit people were wrong to think that pride was "vastly superior" to the ufc, it was close but at pride's peak i still say they had the better fighters at lhw and especially heavyweight
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you mentioned tuf guys to make pride guys look bad, even though tuf guys have beaten ufc poster boys like liddell and ortiz
like i said the sport has changed, there are new young elite fighters and elite fighters from the past either got old or the new blood has surpassed them, but when the two organizations merged almost 3 years ago to the day, pride fighters immediately became the champs
chuck and randy were ufc champs then, i'd say nog looks like a better heavyweight than randy and tim sylvia today, shogun and rampage look like better lhw's than chuck
and they proved it, don't let the facts get in the way of your blind lust for the ufc :-*
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I got news for you genius, TUF guys ARE UFC fighters...lol.
And, when the orgs merged three years ago, Pride guys were made to look like shiat. Forrest decimated Shogun. Lesnar embarrassed Heath, Sokoudjou was exposed by Machida, Wandy lost to Chuck, Big Nog lost to Mir, etc. The only guy that had some success was Rampage, but ultimately he too a TUF winner...Forrest.
The bottom line is that the UFC was and is better than Pride, and Pride is no more. Gomi's embarrassing loss is a sweet reminder of that :)
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when was heath herring ever a champ in pride? what big wins did he have in pride?
i admit people were wrong to think that pride was "vastly superior" to the ufc, it was close but at pride's peak i still say they had the better fighters at lhw and especially heavyweight
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What IS very obvious is that Fedor can not continue to keep his phony #1 status based on his wins against 'top talent' 5 years ago.
He needs to be fighting guys that are relevant in today's HW division. Rodgers, Arvloski and Sylvia are hardly top of the division. The wins he had in PRIDE have proven to be pretty meaningless in today's MMA as well. No doubt he is a legend for what he DID....but what he DOES now is what I am complaining about.
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I got news for you genius, TUF guys ARE UFC fighters...lol.
And, when the orgs merged three years ago, Pride guys were made to look like shiat. Forrest decimated Shogun. Lesnar embarrassed Heath, Sokoudjou was exposed by Machida, Wandy lost to Chuck, Big Nog lost to Mir, etc. The only guy that had some success was Rampage, but ultimately he too a TUF winner...Forrest.
The bottom line is that the UFC was and is better than Pride, and Pride is no more. Gomi's embarrassing loss is a sweet reminder of that :)
oh please, you mentioned tuf fighters in a way to make them seem inferior to typical ufc fighters ::)
if you're going to knock pride fighters for losing to them, you're going to have to do the same for your ufc heroes, and liddel lost to friggin keith jardine
heath and sokodjou? when were they elite fighters? heck sokodjou even lost in affliction, with your "logic" that makes affliction better ::)
why do you conveniently keep forgetting that nog was heavyweight champ and he beat randy and tim sylvia, who basically owned your ufc heavyweight division for years?
when they merged, the pride fighters became ufc champs, "forget" that if it makes you feel less owned ;D
and nobody gives a shit about 155 lb fighters, the big boys were in pride andthe faces of ufc like sylvia, arlovski, couture, liddell got owned by the best pride had to offer
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What IS very obvious is that Fedor can not continue to keep his phony #1 status based on his wins against 'top talent' 5 years ago.
He needs to be fighting guys that are relevant in today's HW division. Rodgers, Arvloski and Sylvia are hardly top of the division. The wins he had in PRIDE have proven to be pretty meaningless in today's MMA as well. No doubt he is a legend for what he DID....but what he DOES now is what I am complaining about.
who should be ranked ahead of him?
cain velazquez for beating nog? fedor beat him twice
carwin for beating mir and gonzaga? gonzaga was a one hit wonder and mir is inconsistent
lesnar? whatt wins on his record look better than all of fedor's?
oh and last time pride aired a show arlovski and syliva were at the top of the ufc heavyweight division, more proof that when pride existed it's heavyweight division was much better
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who should be ranked ahead of him?
cain velazquez for beating nog? fedor beat him twice
carwin for beating mir and gonzaga? gonzaga was a one hit wonder and mir is inconsistent
lesnar? whatt wins on his record look better than all of fedor's?
oh and last time pride aired a show arlovski and syliva were at the top of the ufc heavyweight division, more proof that when pride existed it's heavyweight division was much better
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Let me make clear a few things up for you....
If Fedor fought any one of the current UFC contenders (Brock, Carwin, Cain, Mir or Dos Santos) or Barnett, or Overeem, I would say that he can keep his #1 status.
Fighting Rodgers and EX-UFC champs from a few years back does not quite cut it. Hope this is clear enough.
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you didn't answer my first question, who should be ranked ahead of him?
funny how people always throw around the word "overrated" but often can't tell you who should be ranked ahead of them
people just like to hate on the best :)
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Hold on there, Fedor is fighting Werdum in June! ::)
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you didn't answer my first question, who should be ranked ahead of him?
funny how people always throw around the word "overrated" but often can't tell you who should be ranked ahead of them
people just like to hate on the best :)
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I would say the winner of Carwin/Lesnar should be ranked#1. Currently, Brock should be #1. He does hold the belt in the toughest HW division in the world.
IMO Ferdor deserves #2....if that. You can't ride on your previous wins forever.
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Hold on there, Fedor is fighting Werdum in June! ::)
Yea....'top contender' Werdum ::)
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I would say the winner of Carwin/Lesnar should be ranked#1. Currently, Brock should be #1. He does hold the belt in the toughest HW division in the world.
IMO Ferdor deserves #2....if that. You can't ride on your previous wins forever.
and you can't lose your ranking when you never lose
when was the last time brock fought? last summer? why is fedor penalized by you for fighting brett rogers in november?
why is brett rogers worse than all of ufc's heavyweights? he had a quick knockout of arlovski, who as mentioned before was at the top of ufc's heavyweight division while pride was up and running :)
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all fighters eventually lose, some get old and some just get caught
some day the same will happen to fedor
i'm sure the ufc fanboys are salivating at the thought of saying "SEE I TOLD YOU HE WAS ALWAYS OVERRATED" ::) ::)
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all fighters eventually lose, some get old and some just get caught
some day the same will happen to fedor
i'm sure the ufc fanboys are salivating at the thought of saying "SEE I TOLD YOU HE WAS ALWAYS OVERRATED" ::) ::)
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If Fedor doesn't get into the UFC in the next 3 years, he will be past his prime and there will be no glory in beating him then.
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If Fedor doesn't get into the UFC in the next 3 years, he will be past his prime and there will be no glory in beating him then.
agreed
but you'll say he was overrated, right?
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nope.
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and you can't lose your ranking when you never lose
when was the last time brock fought? last summer? why is fedor penalized by you for fighting brett rogers in november?
why is brett rogers worse than all of ufc's heavyweights? he had a quick knockout of arlovski, who as mentioned before was at the top of ufc's heavyweight division while pride was up and running :)
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Brock was not out by choice. Fedor has been dodging fights out for what reason? Are you telling me Werdum is a legit contender to validate Fedor's #1 status?
Rodgers....come on. We all know he is one dimensional and Fedor even struggled with him.
Why is Fedor dodging Overeem?
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Brock was not out by choice. Fedor has been dodging fights out for what reason? Are you telling me Werdum is a legit contender to validate Fedor's #1 status?
Rodgers....come on. We all know he is one dimensional and Fedor even struggled with him.
Why is Fedor dodging Overeem?
isn't fedor making more money out of the ufc?
if rodgers is one dimensional than what is lesnar? has shane carwin ever submitted a guy?
how did fedor struggle with him? because he had a bloody nose? are you serious? a 2nd round knockout is struggling?
fedor haters nitpick every little thing, that's why i know all of you can't wait to call him overrated when he finally loses , you expect him to make all of his opponents look like zulu ::)
no i don't think werdum is an exciting opponent for him, but i do think werdum is capable of beating just about anybody, except fedor
as for overeem, i can't take him seriously he struggled with much smaller fighters and werdum beat him, so i'd say out of the two he deserves a shot more
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isn't fedor making more money out of the ufc?
if rodgers is one dimensional than what is lesnar? has shane carwin ever submitted a guy?
how did fedor struggle with him? because he had a bloody nose? are you serious? a 2nd round knockout is struggling?
fedor haters nitpick every little thing, that's why i know all of you can't wait to call him overrated when he finally loses , you expect him to make all of his opponents look like zulu ::)
no i don't think werdum is an exciting opponent for him, but i do think werdum is capable of beating just about anybody, except fedor
as for overeem, i can't take him seriously he struggled with much smaller fighters and werdum beat him, so i'd say out of the two he deserves a shot more
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I seriously doubt Fedor is making more money out of the UFC...but nobody really knows that but Fedor.
Carwin and Lesnar have devastating wrestling as well as knockout power. Has Carwin ever needed to take a fight to the ground? He has never taken a fight more then a couple of minutes.
Please note that I will call Fedor over rated when he loses...just as I am now. He has made bad choices the past couple of years regarding his legacy/career. Fedor very well can still be the best in the world...he just needs to prove it by fighting in the 'big leagues' ;D
Enough of the playing around. Fedor needs to realize that some of us keyboard warriors spend a great deal of our time debating this. We need him to prove himself so we all can move on :)
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brett rogers also won his fights in the first round by knockout
i want him in the ufc too but if he's making more money i don't blame him, the top mma fighters aren't getting pay days like tyson or de la hoya
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Fedor is not making more out of the UFC. His income consists of fight payouts, sponsor money & 10% of the 50% that M1 gets for co-promotions.
The fight payout $$ is probably similar in the UFC vs. StrikeForce. However the sponsor payout is SIGNIFICANTLY higher with the UFC, since they get considerably more views. The co-promotion payout is in essence 5% of the NET PROFIT that StrikeForce makes. In the UFC he would make 5% of the PV revenues...a much higher number. Not to mention, with the UFC, he would have more longevity and an opportunity to build his brand in the US.
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Rua had a disastrous showing in his UFC debut. He was choked out by Griffin which at this point I don't ever see happening again. Rua worked on his conditioning and he looked great against Liddell and Machida. Gomi has a lot to work on as well but if he puts in the effort he can be competitive.
Gomi needs to consult a non-Japanese boxing and conditioning coach pronto. He needs to work on those looping punches that leave him wide open. His cardio is atrocious as well.
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really?
big nog - heavyweight champ
rampage - light heavyweight champ
anderson silva - middle weight champ
shogun - should be light heavyweight champ and smashed ufc poster boy chuck liddell, which brings me to my next point chuck was the champ the last time pride aired a show
none of the top guys then (aside from the great fedor) are still top guys today
When was "Big Nog" the UFC Heavyweight Champ? ::)
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Rua had a disastrous showing in his UFC debut. He was choked out by Griffin which at this point I don't ever see happening again. Rua worked on his conditioning and he looked great against Liddell and Machida. Gomi has a lot to work on as well but if he puts in the effort he can be competitive.
Gomi needs to consult a non-Japanese boxing and conditioning coach pronto. He needs to work on those looping punches that leave him wide open. His cardio is atrocious as well.
Rua had reinjured his knee prior to the Griffin fight. Now that he is healthy, I don't think anyone at 205 can beat him except Machida. Gomi looked rusty and he got thrown to the wolves right away. Outside of a rematch against BJ Penn, I cant think of a tougher fight at 155 for a debut in the octogon. He will get better also.
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Bones Jones can beat Rua. Rashad may also beat Rua by lnp.
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brett rogers also won his fights in the first round by knockout
i want him in the ufc too but if he's making more money i don't blame him, the top mma fighters aren't getting pay days like tyson or de la hoya
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Nor should they. The org needs to make most of the money to ensure longevity and a profitable business.
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When was "Big Nog" the UFC Heavyweight Champ? ::)
what are you rolling your eyes at "james"?
he choked out tim sylvia
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what are you rolling your eyes at "james"?
he choked out tim sylvia
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Tim Silvia was not the UFC Heavy Weight Champ at that time. He had already lost the belt to Randy Couture. the fight was for a make believe interim belt.
To be the champ , you have to beat the champ, and Tim Sylvia was not the champ.
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Tim Silvia was not the UFC Heavy Weight Champ at that time. He had already lost the belt to Randy Couture. the fight was for a make believe interim belt.
To be the champ , you have to beat the champ, and Tim Sylvia was not the champ.
well there was a belt wrapped around his waist, he then beat ufc hero couture
sounds like a champ to me, the ufc recongnized him as champ
your anti pride mentality changes nothing :-*
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well there was a belt wrapped around his waist, he then beat ufc hero couture
sounds like a champ to me, the ufc recongnized him as champ
your anti pride mentality changes nothing :-*
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Funny how much things have changed in just a few short years. Nog, once one of PRIDES best, just got destroyed by the 'new generation' of UFC HW talent.
This is why we need Fedor in the UFC....so we can see how he does with this new talent. :D
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well there was a belt wrapped around his waist, he then beat ufc hero couture
sounds like a champ to me, the ufc recongnized him as champ
your anti pride mentality changes nothing Kiss
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When he fought Couture, Couture was no longer champion either, as Couture had already lost the Belt to Lesnar, So Big Nog was never the true Heavy Weight Champion.
And I am not anti Pride at all, please show me one post that shows this ?
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Funny how much things have changed in just a few short years. Nog, once one of PRIDES best, just got destroyed by the 'new generation' of UFC HW talent.
This is why we need Fedor in the UFC....so we can see how he does with this new talent. :D
and the elite ufc fighters of those days also have been "destroyed"
matt hughes, chuck liddell, randy coutour, tito ortiz, tim sylvia, andrei arlovski, rich franklin
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When he fought Couture, Couture was no longer champion either, as Couture had already lost the Belt to Lesnar, So Big Nog was never the true Heavy Weight Champion.
And I am not anti Pride at all, please show me one post that shows this ?
he beat the interim and "real" champ, he was given a belt
everybody other than you considers him a ufc heavyweight champ
i guess since mir beat nog he wasn't a champ either?
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he beat the interim and "real" champ, he was given a belt
everybody other than you considers him a ufc heavyweight champ
i guess since mir beat nog he wasn't a champ either?
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He did not beat the Champ, plain and simple. When he fought Tim Sylvia, Tim Sylvia had already lost the Belt to Couture. and when Nog fought Couture, Couture had already lost the Belt to Lesnar.
Once again, to be the Champ, you have to beat the Champ, and nobody but you considers an Interim Belt to be the true UFC Champion
Just like now, nobody considers Shane Carwin to be the UFC Heavy Weight Champion, (even though he was a was given a Interim Belt a few weeks ago, when he beat Mir, just like Nog was given when he beat Tim Sylivia.)
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He did not beat the Champ, plain and simple. When he fought Tim Sylvia, Tim Sylvia had already lost the Belt to Couture. and when Nog fought Couture, Couture had already lost the Belt to Lesnar.
Once again, to be the Champ, you have to beat the Champ, and nobody but you considers an Interim Belt to be the true UFC Champion
Just like now, nobody considers Shane Carwin to be the UFC Heavy Weight Champion, (even though he was a was given a Interim Belt a few weeks ago, when he beat Mir, just like Nog was given when he beat Tim Sylivia.)
dana white recognizes him as a ufc champ, he beat both sylvia and coutour so stop acting like nog hasn't accomplished much in the ufc ::)
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and the elite ufc fighters of those days also have been "destroyed"
matt hughes, chuck liddell, randy coutour, tito ortiz, tim sylvia, andrei arlovski, rich franklin
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All these fighters have aged and new talent has come in. Can't really say Franklin or Hughes have been destroyed. Franklin was destroyed by Anderson Silva, but who hasn't been.
Thanks for reinforcing my previous statement. This is why I feel that Fedor's #1 status is based on his wins from years ago. All he has been fighting is UFC rejects lately and a lazy, fat LHW who is fighting at HW in his last win.
All the guys you mentioned except Sylvia are capable of putting on good fights, they just are not top competition anymore.
Sylvia is an embarrassment to the sport, fighting freak show fights.
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All these fighters have aged and new talent has come in. Can't really say Franklin or Hughes have been destroyed. Franklin was destroyed by Anderson Silva, but who hasn't been.
Thanks for reinforcing my previous statement. This is why I feel that Fedor's #1 status is based on his wins from years ago. All he has been fighting is UFC rejects lately and a lazy, fat LHW who is fighting at HW in his last win.
All the guys you mentioned except Sylvia are capable of putting on good fights, they just are not top competition anymore.
Sylvia is an embarrassment to the sport, fighting freak show fights.
so nog and pride fighters can't age, or only ufc fighters can?
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so nog and pride fighters can't age, or only ufc fighters can?
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You must have misunderstood. Of course they have aged. Fedor has aged too. Mix that up with 'new talent' and HW's that weight 280 lean in the ring and there really is not a chance for these 'older' guys.
All I am saying is I highly doubt Fedor stands a chance against this new breed. At least he is smart and knows to stay away.
Therefore he needs to relinquish his #1 status or step up. Either way he will be vacating it soon ;D
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Gomi looked totally unprepared for the fight. The worst I have seen him.
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What new breed? You mean the completely untested and unproven fighters in the UFC HW division? Yes, this new breed sure is intimidating. They're so skilled and gifted that a former WWE freakshow waltzed in and took the belt within a year of joining. Hahahaha, how intimidating!!!! ::)
Who is Fedor going to vacate it to? The guy with the AMAZING 4-1 who faked an illness and will end up having not fought for 1+ years? Not likely in the eyes of any true MMA fan. That's true MMA fan, not UFC fanboys like yourself and Yemeni.
The new breed of HW are the powerhouse 280lbs monsters that are dominating currently. I think Cain and Dos Santos are more like the highly skilled HW's that we are used to seeing. They all have a shot at being #1 someday....but it is hard to compete with guys that weigh 280 lbs of muscle when you weigh 240 at best. I will admit that Carwin and Lesnar are not the most technical, but nobody has found a formula for dealing with these big guys.
You think Brock faked his illness huh?? Well Fedor has had many fixed fights as well? What's your point with a statement like that. ::)
Please answer this for me: Is fighting Werdum really enough for Fedor to maintain his #1 status?
Maybe after the Werdum fight, Fedor can fight Coleman again to validate his #1 HW status? I hear Coleman is a free agent.
Besides....Fedor likes fighting UFC rejects and cans. :o
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You must have misunderstood. Of course they have aged. Fedor has aged too. Mix that up with 'new talent' and HW's that weight 280 lean in the ring and there really is not a chance for these 'older' guys.
All I am saying is I highly doubt Fedor stands a chance against this new breed. At least he is smart and knows to stay away.
Therefore he needs to relinquish his #1 status or step up. Either way he will be vacating it soon ;D
seriously what have you seen in the ufc that makes you believe he doesn't stand a chance?
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seriously what have you seen in the ufc that makes you believe he doesn't stand a chance?
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It's what Fedor has NOT been doing that makes me think he has no chance.
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Can't see anything when Dana White is dangling his dice on WeightPSHR's face.
I knew you couldn't answer my question above. Sometimes it's just to easy.
What's the matter....afraid of your own answer?
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It's what Fedor has NOT been doing that makes me think he has no chance.
and who has done more?
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so nog and pride fighters can't age, or only ufc fighters can?
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They all age, which is why Fedor is not the best. He's a past his prime, over-hyped tomato can. :P
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and who has done more?
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Carwin,Cain, Dos Santos, Mir, Lesnar. Lesnar had a serious illness...so got to cut him a little slack.
Rodgers is the only semi-tough fight Fedor has fought in a couple of years and he got rocked a few times.
Think about it. Rodgers is truly a fat LHW fighting at HW.
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Carwin,Cain, Dos Santos, Mir, Lesnar. Lesnar had a serious illness...so got to cut him a little slack.
Rodgers is the only semi-tough fight Fedor has fought in a couple of years and he got rocked a few times.
Think about it. Rodgers is truly a fat LHW fighting at HW.
none of those guys have a more impressive resume over the last few years, heck most of them have a loss
one punch to the nose is not "rocked a few times" ::)
if you want to see a fighter get rocked but still pull out a win, watch brock vs 45 year old randy
rodgers is well over 6'2 and you think that's a fat lhw ???
you have no clue what you are talking about, which was obvious since your first post in this thread
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none of those guys have a more impressive resume over the last few years, heck most of them have a loss
one punch to the nose is not "rocked a few times" ::)
if you want to see a fighter get rocked but still pull out a win, watch brock vs 45 year old randy
rodgers is well over 6'2 and you think that's a fat lhw ???
you have no clue what you are talking about, which was obvious since your first post in this thread
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Randy did get rocked...but for one he is not afraid to fight the best. He is also not ranked #1 either.
By your logic a loss means you suck huh? No wonder you are a Fedor fan.
Because someone is 6'2 thry have to be a HW. WTF? Many LHW's are 6'2".
You obviously are an expired PRIDE fan who forgets this is 2010. Fedor's fight career has seen better days. Sorry to break the news to you.
Why can't anyone answer my question?
Does fighting Werdum really justify Fedor's #1 status?
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All these fighters have aged and new talent has come in. Can't really say Franklin or Hughes have been destroyed. Franklin was destroyed by Anderson Silva, but who hasn't been.
Rich got blasted, I mean blasted by Vitor. Hughes got smashed by Alves and his last fight with GSP was embarassing.
As for Gomi, his best years have been behind him for a while now, Gomi admitted after Pride folded he had a really hard time motivating himself and he fell in love with helping and training younger fighters. If he would have been KO'd by Florian that might look really bad but Gomi has always had trouble with elite JJ fighters.
If you think Florian would have even made it past the first round with Gomi five years at the stage in their developments you're delusional.
This Pride versus UFC stuff is played out, Pride hasn't existed for years now, that would be like doing Rings vs Pride 5 or 6 years ago. Of course guys are going to fade as the years go by. Look at Chuck, Tito, Frank Shamrock; the game passes everyone by eventually.
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This Pride versus UFC stuff is played out, Pride hasn't existed for years now, that would be like doing Rings vs Pride 5 or 6 years ago. Of course guys are going to fade as the years go by. Look at Chuck, Tito, Frank Shamrock; the game passes everyone by eventually.
That is all the more reason why its great to make fun of those still clinging to the days gone by of PRIDE and how great it was.
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That is all the more reason why its great to make fun of those still clinging to the days gone by of PRIDE and how great it was.
Could not agree more. Those same guys are clinging to the legend that Fedor once was. Well...now that I think about it, Fedor is still riding the success of those victories as well. Technically, it's not all those PIRDE fantasy fans fault.
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Why can't anyone answer my question?
Does fighting Werdum really justify Fedor's #1 status?
Yes bro, I can.
It helps yes.
You know as well as the regs. on here where I stand on Werdum talent. He's a legit fighter that will test Fedor to the fullest. That said I feel that if Fedor easily owns Werdum quickly in the first then you have to acknowledge his #1 status.
Hell, ask any legit fighter if records & who's fought who matters & 100% will say yes. Anyone can get caught on any night & the fact that if Fedor wins another fight on his 30+ win streak is a huge positive to any rational fighter. Hell Chuck irritated to it last night.
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Yes bro, I can.
It helps yes.
You know as well as the regs. on here where I stand on Werdum talent. He's a legit fighter that will test Fedor to the fullest. That said I feel that if Fedor easily owns Werdum quickly in the first then you have to acknowledge his #1 status.
Hell, ask any legit fighter if records & who's fought who matters & 100% will say yes. Anyone can get caught on any night & the fact that if Fedor wins another fight on his 30+ win streak is a huge positive to any rational fighter. Hell Chuck irritated to it last night.
Thanks for answering and explaining why you feel as you do.
I see things MUCH differently. First of all the win is not as meaningful if Fedor is fighting guys that are way below his talent level. Outside of the UFC, Werdum one of only a couple of guys that are even barely qualified to fight Fedor. Anyone can get caught, but if you are fighting guys of lesser talent, you minimize this risk. All I am saying is that the UFC has MOST of the top HW's and by not signing with the UFC, Fedor is greatly avoiding better talent. I am not just referring to Lesnar either. I actually think Fedor would demolish Lesnar. The way you and most on here feel, is that if Fedor keeps winning, regardless of who he fights, he can keep his #1 status. This is like putting Anderson Silva against Jorge Rivera or Pat Millitech or Phil Baroni and saying that he is 'earning' his #1 ranking. Outside of the UFC there really is nobody near Fedor's talent level. Smart move on Fedor's part.
Please tell me what win in the last 4 years shows Werdum as anywhere near what the UFC has to offer in HW's, again I am not just talking about Lesnar.
Here is Werdum's record from just about the last four years. Can you really say he is a worthy opponent?
Win Antonio Silva Decision (Unanimous) Strikeforce / M-1 Global - Fedor vs. Rogers 11/7/2009 3 5:00
Win Mike Kyle Submission (Guillotine Choke) Strikeforce - Carano vs. Cyborg 8/15/2009 1 1:24
Loss Junior dos Santos TKO (Punches) UFC 90 - Silva vs. Cote 10/25/2008 1 1:21
Win Brandon Vera TKO (Punches) UFC 85 - Bedlam 6/7/2008 1 4:40
Win Gabriel Gonzaga TKO (Punches) UFC 80 - Rapid Fire 1/19/2008 2 4:34
Loss Andrei Arlovski Decision (Unanimous) UFC 70 - Nations Collide 4/21/2007 3 5:00
Win Aleksander Emelianenko Submission (Arm-Triangle Choke) 2H2H - Pride & Honor 11/12/2006 1 3:24
Loss Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira Decision (Unanimous) PRIDE - Critical Countdown Absolute 7/1/2006 3 5:00
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Thanks for answering and explaining why you feel as you do.
I see things MUCH differently. First of all the win is not as meaningful if Fedor is fighting guys that are way below his talent level. Outside of the UFC, Werdum one of only a couple of guys that are even barely qualified to fight Fedor. Anyone can get caught, but if you are fighting guys of lesser talent, you minimize this risk. All I am saying is that the UFC has MOST of the top HW's and by not signing with the UFC, Fedor is greatly avoiding better talent. I am not just referring to Lesnar either. I actually think Fedor would demolish Lesnar. The way you and most on here feel, is that if Fedor keeps winning, regardless of who he fights, he can keep his #1 status. This is like putting Anderson Silva against Jorge Rivera or Pat Millitech or Phil Baroni and saying that he is 'earning' his #1 ranking. Outside of the UFC there really is nobody near Fedor's talent level. Smart move on Fedor's part.
Please tell me what win in the last 4 years shows Werdum as anywhere near what the UFC has to offer in HW's, again I am not just talking about Lesnar.
Here is Werdum's record from just about the last four years. Can you really say he is a worthy opponent?
Win Antonio Silva Decision (Unanimous) Strikeforce / M-1 Global - Fedor vs. Rogers 11/7/2009 3 5:00
Win Mike Kyle Submission (Guillotine Choke) Strikeforce - Carano vs. Cyborg 8/15/2009 1 1:24
Loss Junior dos Santos TKO (Punches) UFC 90 - Silva vs. Cote 10/25/2008 1 1:21
Win Brandon Vera TKO (Punches) UFC 85 - Bedlam 6/7/2008 1 4:40
Win Gabriel Gonzaga TKO (Punches) UFC 80 - Rapid Fire 1/19/2008 2 4:34
Loss Andrei Arlovski Decision (Unanimous) UFC 70 - Nations Collide 4/21/2007 3 5:00
Win Aleksander Emelianenko Submission (Arm-Triangle Choke) 2H2H - Pride & Honor 11/12/2006 1 3:24
Loss Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira Decision (Unanimous) PRIDE - Critical Countdown Absolute 7/1/2006 3 5:00
First point. I'm going to use an analogy that a "#1 Div 3 wrestler" is just as good as the "#1 Div 1 wrestler" No way are they equal as the talent is different. BUT The world of MMA is different due to the many factors eg. residency, background, ect.
As far as the list you posted, Yes he is. Why? He’s taken a loss to two huge guys @ the time by decision. That’s a big feat in MMA to go the distance with the likes of Nog, Arv.
Vera was great opponent back in the day but now it seems time has caught him. I can only argue, what will be will be is when the fight happens & we will see what kind of fighter Werdum has matured into. Bigfoot isn't so much a can himself.
What sucks for Fedor is this fight is a double edge sword that that cuts him due to the inexperienced "couch" MMA fans.
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Oh and to question your statement of...
First of all the win is not as meaningful if Fedor is fighting guys that are way below his talent level
You say this but what about Silva, Penn, GSP??? The way they dominate there opponents they must be fighting guys below their talent level right? You can’t have two different measuring stick for two organizations bro. They all get measured the same.
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First point. Your right and I'm going to use an analogy that a "#1 Div 3 wrestler" is just as good as the "#1 Div 1 wrestler" No way are they equal as the talent is different. BUT The world of MMA is different due to the many factors eg. residency, background, ect.
As far as the list you posted, Yes he is. Why? He’s taken a loss to two huge guys @ the time by decision. That’s a big feat in MMA to go the distance with the likes of Nog, Arv.
Vera was great opponent back in the day but now it seems time has caught him. I can only argue, what will be will be is when the fight happens & we will see what kind of fighter Werdum has matured into. Bigfoot isn't so much a can himself.
What sucks for Fedor is this fight is a double edge sword that that cuts him due to the inexperienced "couch" MMA fans.
If you want to use those decisions as merit, Fedor demolished Arvloski, and has beaten Nog. Both Werdum lost to. Decision or not...he lost.
He also lost to Dos Santos, who would make a great, meaningful match-up for Fedor.
I personally don't think MMA math really adds up, but for the sake of discussion we can use it.
You say that the "double-edge sword" situation sucks for Fedor, but he is the one who chose this situation. It's nobody's fault that Fedor is avoiding the fights that the majority of MMA fans want to see.
You can not honestly tell me that the majority of MMA fans really care to see him fight Werdum. We will watch because it is Fedor, but he is expected to win. It is by no means a compelling match-up. Whomever thinks it is, obviously knows nothing about MMA.
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Oh and to question your statement of...
First of all the win is not as meaningful if Fedor is fighting guys that are way below his talent level
You say this but what about Silva, Penn, GSP??? The way they dominate there opponents they must be fighting guys below their talent level right? You can’t have two different measuring stick for two organizations bro. They all get measured the same.
Silva is fighting in multiple weight classes TRYING to challenge himself as well as Penn has been doing. They also have been fighting the best top ranked guys. GSP has been as well.
It is also apples and oranges here. The UFC has a lot more fighters and talent to choose from. The UFC has a HUGE roster of fighters.
The fighters you mentioned are on the biggest stage, with the most fighters, taking any challengers. What else can they do?
Can you honestly say that about the orgs Fedor's in? They have a limited number of fighters.
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Randy did get rocked...but for one he is not afraid to fight the best. He is also not ranked #1 either.
By your logic a loss means you suck huh? No wonder you are a Fedor fan.
Because someone is 6'2 thry have to be a HW. WTF? Many LHW's are 6'2".
You obviously are an expired PRIDE fan who forgets this is 2010. Fedor's fight career has seen better days. Sorry to break the news to you.
Why can't anyone answer my question?
Does fighting Werdum really justify Fedor's #1 status?
actually brock got rocked throughpout the fight and was losing until a lucky punch, funny how you forget the facts that destroy your argument, and yeah i guess i'm a fan of winners
brett rogers is listed at 6'5, how many guys that big don't fight at heavyweight ::)
if anybody is a fat lhw it's fedor, he still owns true heavyweights
how does fighting werdum hurt his status as the number 1 heavyweight? how does fighting frank mir or randy justify it ::)
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actually brock got rocked throughpout the fight and was losing until a lucky punch, funny how you forget the facts that destroy your argument, and yeah i guess i'm a fan of winners
brett rogers is listed at 6'5, how many guys that big don't fight at heavyweight ::)
if anybody is a fat lhw it's fedor, he still owns true heavyweights
how does fighting werdum hurt his status as the number 1 heavyweight? how does fighting frank mir or randy justify it ::)
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Earl, WTF are you arguing about? You seem to just argue for the sake of arguing ::) Any nitwit with half a brain cell will tell you that unless you're fighting the best, you cannot be considered the best. Guess what, I have a 200-0 record. Everyone one of those wins was over my 7 & 8 year old girls. Does that make me the #1 heavyweight in the world? No. You're only as good as the competition you beat. And, if we go by the ranking reports, or just plain common sense, MOST of the top Heavyweights are in the UFC. Fedor is not fighting the best, therefore he cannot be considered the best. It's simple.
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Earl, WTF are you arguing about? You seem to just argue for the sake of arguing ::) Any nitwit with half a brain cell will tell you that unless you're fighting the best, you cannot be considered the best. Guess what, I have a 200-0 record. Everyone one of those wins was over my 7 & 8 year old girls. Does that make me the #1 heavyweight in the world? No. You're only as good as the competition you beat. And, if we go by the ranking reports, or just plain common sense, MOST of the top Heavyweights are in the UFC. Fedor is not fighting the best, therefore he cannot be considered the best. It's simple.
it's "simple" yet all of the rankings have fedor number 1 right?
you're just dying to see him lose so you can tell everybody how you "always knew" he was overrated ::)
a win over frank mir (who has lost to brandon friggin vera) and 40+ year old randy is not more impressive than anything fedor has recently done
get over it, tuffer
oh and do you think rogers is a fat lhw too?
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actually brock got rocked throughpout the fight and was losing until a lucky punch, funny how you forget the facts that destroy your argument, and yeah i guess i'm a fan of winners
brett rogers is listed at 6'5, how many guys that big don't fight at heavyweight ::)
if anybody is a fat lhw it's fedor, he still owns true heavyweights
how does fighting werdum hurt his status as the number 1 heavyweight? how does fighting frank mir or randy justify it ::)
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I never said Brock should be #1 ranked necessarily. I think the winner of Brock/Carwin should be. Unless Fedor finds his balls that he lost somewhere around 2005 and decides to join the UFC. If he can find his lost pair, then you have the winner of Brock/Carwin fight Fedor for #1 status. All I am saying is Fedor is not fighting guys that are near his talent level and it screws it up for talented guys that want a crack at #1.
Fighting guys like Werdum hurt his ranking by PADDING it.
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it's "simple" yet all of the rankings have fedor number 1 right?
you're just dying to see him lose so you can tell everybody how you "always knew" he was overrated ::)
a win over frank mir (who has lost to brandon friggin vera) and 40+ year old randy is not more impressive than anything fedor has recently done
get over it, tuffer
oh and do you think rogers is a fat lhw too?
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I don't care if Fedor wins or looses. I just want to see him fight the best before he is past his prime.
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I don't care if Fedor wins or looses. I just want to see him fight the best before he is past his prime.
trust me i would love to see him in the ufc too, i just don't think any fighter in ufc can currently make a case for being ranked ahead of him
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You can not honestly tell me that the majority of MMA fans really care to see him fight Werdum. We will watch because it is Fedor, but he is expected to win. It is by no means a compelling match-up. Whomever thinks it is, obviously knows nothing about MMA.
Watch out attacking me with that statement bro. I've been respectful, so do the same.
To say I know nothing about MMA because I want to see a Werdum/Fedor fight is just putting a label on yourself.
I don't need to justify why, been there, know people who've done that.
And no the majority of "armchair MMA" tough guys have no idea who Werdum, sadly that makes up 60-70% of the viewing demographic. Sad but true, but to the people who know & love all aspects of MMA will view this fight as 1 of the toughest tests for Fedor in the past 4 yrs.
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Watch out attacking me with that statement bro. I've been respectful, so do the same.
To say I know nothing about MMA because I want to see a Werdum/Fedor fight is just putting a label on yourself.
I don't need to justify why, been there, know people who've done that.
And no the majority of "armchair MMA" tough guys have no idea who Werdum, sadly that makes up 60-70% of the viewing demographic. Sad but true, but to the people who know & love all aspects of MMA will view this fight as 1 of the toughest tests for Fedor in the past 4 yrs.
Was not attacking YOU at all. All I am saying with that statement is that MMA fans 'hardcore' or whatever realize that this fight with Fedor is close to the best match-up we can get with Fedor not being in the UFC.
That being said, you summed it up quite well when you said that this is one of Fedor's toughest tests in 4 yrs. I agree 100% with you.
That in itself is what I am complaining about with Fedor.
To sum this all up...If Fedor and Werdum were both in the UFC, and this fight was happening, people would we complaining about this fight even more. There are MANY better more challenging opponents out there. This fight win or lose, does nothing but really hurt Fedor's status IMO.
Like you stated earlier, If Fedor does not walk right through Werdum in the first round, we will all question why? That says a lot about the challenge Werdum imposes on Fedor.
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very good points by earl & hickson...
And as far as Werdum he has some of the best ground game in the heavyweight div regardless of the Org...
He is a 2 time Brazilian jiu jitsu world champion & if he can take the fight to the ground he has the skill set to submit Fedor....
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Was not attacking YOU at all. All I am saying with that statement is that MMA fans 'hardcore' or whatever realize that this fight with Fedor is close to the best match-up we can get with Fedor not being in the UFC.
That being said, you summed it up quite well when you said that this is one of Fedor's toughest tests in 4 yrs. I agree 100% with you.
That in itself is what I am complaining about with Fedor.
To sum this all up...If Fedor and Werdum were both in the UFC, and this fight was happening, people would we complaining about this fight even more. There are MANY better more challenging opponents out there. This fight win or lose, does nothing but really hurt Fedor's status IMO.
Like you stated earlier, If Fedor does not walk right through Werdum in the first round, we will all question why? That says a lot about the challenge Werdum imposes on Fedor.
Cool! ;)
Yes it hurts Fedor's status but only to the “Cheeto choke-outs” of the world that don't know shit about MMA. Bro you have a good head about the intricacies of MMA so leave Buffalo Wild Wings, walk down the street & come inside the home of people who know the game! Your more than welcome. Beer is purchased by me!!! (I used to say "beer is on me" but ever since the movie Necessary Roughness i stopped using that statement. It provokes trouble, seen it first hand. ;D )
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Cool! ;)
Yes it hurts Fedor's status but only to the “Cheeto choke-outs” of the world that don't know shit about MMA. Bro you have a good head about the intricacies of MMA so leave Buffalo Wild Wings, walk down the street & come inside the home of people who know the game! Your more than welcome. Beer is purchased by me!!! (I used to say "beer is on me" but ever since the movie Necessary Roughness i stopped using that statement. It provokes trouble, seen it first hand. ;D )
LOL... Amongst every crowd it always seems there is a 'professional' that knows how the MMA game works. They are the ones that without a doubt are complaining when the fight stays on the ground calling it boring, or when a guy gets knocked out in the first minute, saying that 'this fight sucked'...should have let them keep going etc....
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LOL... Amongst every crowd it always seems there is a 'professional' that knows how the MMA game works. They are the ones that without a doubt are complaining when the fight stays on the ground calling it boring, or when a guy gets knocked out in the first minute, saying that 'this fight sucked'...should have let them keep going etc....
QFT!!
Tapout!!!! Ice-cream Armbars & Kool-aid Kimuras.
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QFT!!
Tapout!!!! Ice-cream Armbars & Kool-aid Kimuras.
I do wonder how people feel putting on a Tapout shirt or other MMA brand shirt, having never even put on a pair of gloves, thinking that it makes them tough.
Tapout wearing guys are always the best though. They are usually overweight with a gut, wearing shorts because they have big calves from carrying arounf their fat asses, looking like they have never even worked out in their lives.
Are we supposed to think they are tough-guys? :)
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I do wonder how people feel putting on a Tapout shirt or other MMA brand shirt, having never even put on a pair of gloves, thinking that it makes them tough.
Tapout wearing guys are always the best though. They are usually overweight with a gut, wearing shorts because they have big calves from carrying arounf their fat asses, looking like they have never even worked out in their lives.
Are we supposed to think they are tough-guys? :)
lol.
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I do wonder how people feel putting on a Tapout shirt or other MMA brand shirt, having never even put on a pair of gloves, thinking that it makes them tough.
Tapout wearing guys are always the best though. They are usually overweight with a gut, wearing shorts because they have big calves from carrying arounf their fat asses, looking like they have never even worked out in their lives.
Are we supposed to think they are tough-guys? :)
like i said in another thread, these tapout shirt morons have made mma seem a lot less cool
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like i said in another thread, these tapout shirt morons have made mma seem a lot less cool
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It does suck in a way, but at the same time it does bring money into the sport. Tapout does support the sport/fighers as do many other MMA apparel companies.
Just sucks that the majority of the people wearing them think they come with some type of entitlement.