This is a better approach to the abortion issue (regardless of how these votes turn out) than relying on some court decision.
I agree.
This is a very bad idea.
There is no constitutional right to life for the unborn, nor should there be. This will open up a pandora's box of stupid ideas for equally stupid advocacy groups to seek having the constitution amended for the consitutional right for gay marriage, the right to life of animals/ trees/ rocks, etc.
I disagree. I think this is going to cause more problems and just push the issue for endless decades to come. It essentially suggests that a fetus has rights and those rights may even trump the mothers. Then there's the whole legal shit that will inevitably follow. Lawsuits because the mother didn't take the right vitamins or proper supplements or didn't follow proper dietary procedures, etc. I think it will be a never ending litany of suits, complaints, gripes, and groans.
Why can't they just leave women alone for fucks sake.
By "they" do you mean the courts, the legislature, or the voters?
I actually agree with Barbara Bush, who said years ago that there will never be a political solution to the abortion question.
It's a very complicated issue. I don't think we should ignore the woman's bodily integrity issue or the fact we're dealing with a baby in the womb. I'm not sure what the answer is. But . . . if we're going to pass laws, regardless of what they are, I'd rather have them passed by the voters or our reps, and not by the men/women in black.
Well in my state, the men & women in black are elected by the people so their opinions are just as valid as those of senators, representatives, governors, etc. I see where you're going with case law, and I'm not typically a fan of judicial activism, but using a constitutional amendment (even at the state level) to define "personhood" will, in my opinion, lead to a plethora of problems and, perhaps, even more case law!
Strange you mention "years ago". Years ago, I thought the entire debate would be moot due to the continuing advancements in medicine. Ha, how wrong I was...
I disagree. I think this is going to cause more problems and just push the issue for endless decades to come. It essentially suggests that a fetus has rights and those rights may even trump the mothers. Then there's the whole legal shit that will inevitably follow. Lawsuits because the mother didn't take the right vitamins or proper supplements or didn't follow proper dietary procedures, etc. I think it will be a never ending litany of suits, complaints, gripes, and groans.
Why can't they just leave women alone for fucks sake.
Yes,like the way they leave men alone who may want to enhance their lives with steroids.We should leave women alone the day the filthy government legalises drugs for adults.
great point
I'm sure the day you're allowed to inject steroids at will the anti abortion nut jobs will feel vindicated and stop intimidating women, threatetning and killing abortion doctors, etc... And of course we all know that taking steroids is basically the same thing as aborting a fetus with severe birth defects
Please give the stats on what is more dangerous,an abortion or using steroids.So far ZERO deaths EVER directly linked to the use of steroids.Can you say the same for abortions on demand?By the way,just so you know,the estimates I see are that over 85% of abortions are done on perfectly health babies.
How many abortion doctors have been offed by the anti abortion people?I know its two in the last 20 years or so.Wow,3 million abortions a year and two abortion doctors killed over 20 years.Keep trying to jinn up the fear of these scum bag doctors getting shot.You know,those darn tea party people are a soon to be group of McVeighs as well.Lib hysteria gone wild.
lol - dude you're utterly clueless
there is no correlation between your access to steroids (and to be clear I don't think there should be any restrictions provided you get them from a doctor) and a womans access to legal abortion.
btw - aren't you anti abortion and think it's perfectly aceptable to murder doctors who perform abortions
More stupid shit... Anyone ever get the numbers for and against pro-choice?
I'm sure it's not 50/50.
Billy - pay attention.
I already said I think you should be able to get all the roids you want, provided you get them from a doctor.
It sounds like in your ideal world all drugs would be legal but abortions would be illegal.
Is that an accurate depiction of your "ideal" world?
I've posted the numbers numerous times. The majority of the country is either pro life or favors restrictions on abortions.
Sorry,wrong again.NOT ONCE EVER have I said the government get involved in abortion law.I dont want a ban,I dont want a law.You see unlike libs,which love to pick and chose where government can dictate behavior,I dont want government to have a say in ANYTHING of a personal nature as long as it doesnt hurt anyone else.So I want:
drugs made legal,NO RESTRICTIONS
abortion legal
gambling legal
prostitution legal
gay marriage legal[frankly I dont care about it]
driving without seat belts legal
no forced helmets for motor cycles
no restrictions on eating,no salt bans etc
etc. etc. I dont want the government to have any say in anything we do as long as the behavior hurts no one else.Abortion ,in the mind of many,kills someone else,but even on that I dont believe in government restrictions.Now,I do a little dance when an abortionist is blasted,but I dont want the government to put them out of buisiness.I want the government to protect the borders[they fail]and fix infastructure [they fail].So the things I want from them they fail at and the things I dont want them to do,they steal our liberty.
Billy is it possible for you to have an opinion on abortion without dragging anything else into it?
You've already said you're in favor of murdering doctors who perform abortions......YES or NO?
If the answer is YES then why are you in favor of it?
Can you give me a succinct answer to those questions (actually if you answer no then the 2nd question is void)
Im not sure Id say Im in favor of it.I giggle like a school girl when it happens.However,even pro life people say the only way to end abortions is to change peoples hearts on the issue.Most of these people are religious nuts and think that Jesus will come into the pro abortion peoples heart and change their views.Sorry,Im more realistic.I agree that changing hearts can end abortion,but Im more inclined to think if many abortion doctors are shot to death and clinics are bombed,those doctors that are involved in it,may have a change of heart out of fear that they are next.
So,I wouldnt say Im in favor of people committing murder[and if they do they should get the electric chair],but if they do I wont shed one tear for any abortionist or nurse involved in such a thing,and in the end if they can spread enough terror to the abortion community maybe there wont be anyone left to commit such acts.
ok, so you "giggle like a school girl" (your own strange depiction - not mine) when a a doctor or nurse is murdered and you're in favor of terorrisms as a tactic against doctors (and presumable you're aware that would included terrorizing woman as well)
will you at least admit that you are against abortion and if so why you are against it.
by "abortion" let's stick with the definition of what is currently legal in the US just to keep the water as clear as possible
I believe its the murder of an innocent human being.That starts from the moment of conception.
So I want:
drugs made legal,NO RESTRICTIONS
abortion legal
gambling legal
prostitution legal
gay marriage legal[frankly I dont care about it]
driving without seat belts legal
no forced helmets for motor cycles
no restrictions on eating,no salt bans etc
ok - I'll ignore the fact that the statement above is merely an opinion and you have no proof when "life" starts.
Let's stick with your belief that abortion is murder.
Are you saying you're OK with murder as long as you also get the following list
Somehow murder is OK as long and you have legal access to all drugs, gay marriage, prostitution etc...?
The government of the United States and the Supreme Court have determined that abortion is legal.Like you said "you have no proof when life begins".So,I dont think that outlawing it will do any more good then outlawing drugs have done.You would fill jails up with doctors or wannabe doctors and to what end?It still wouldnt stop it just like putting millions in jail for drugs has had done nothing to stop the flow,use or sale of drugs in this country.
So,whats the answer?Change peoples mind on the issue.Im not a religious guy so Im not about to think libs minds can be changed on the issue.I do KNOW for a fact that the only thing people respond to is fear of violence.If enough doctors thought that if they commited abortions their house may be bombed or they will be shot,you would slowly see less and less willing to commit abortions.
Again though,if someone does do violence to someone commting an act that the courts have deemed legal,then they should face the death penalty.But much like death camp doctors in Nazi Germany were commting acts that were perfectly legal and actually forced by the government to commit and were put to death for their crimes,so should abortion doctors doing something the government has called perfectly legal face the same type of end.
let's save your advocacy of terrorsism for another thread.
You've said that you believe abortion is murder and you've also given a list of things that you think should be legally allowed (some of which obviously already are legal)
Again, are you saying you're in favor of murder as long as you can also have legal access to any drug, prostitution, gay marriage, etc...?
The government has spoken on the issue.NONE of the things I said I wanted legal are legal in all 50 states.
I will explain it one more time to you.This is the last time.I dont want the government to pass laws that restrict anyones personal liberty.So even though I and millions believe its murder,there is no way to say with 100% cetainty it is.Therefore for the government to ban it,it becomes an assault on personal libertyUntil they can prove with 100% certainty that it is a viable life then Im not in favor of a law resricting it or any other behavior that doesnt restrict anothers liberty.
I've posted the numbers numerous times. The majority of the country is either pro life or favors restrictions on abortions.
See when you add "favors restrictions", of course that's the majority... If you look at the actual polls though, as far as pro-life or pro-choice, most of the "restriction" people consider themselves pro-choice.
I'm pretty sure abortion is legal in all 50 states and I'm certain you can go to all 50 states and eat as much food and salt as you want.
So, just to review: banning abortion is an assault on personal liberty and yet you believe abortion is also murder but then you also believe that murder is OK as long as you also get all the other shit that you want.
Also, although you personally believe that abortion is murder you also think restricting it is a assault on anothers liberty but at the same time you advocate terrorizing doctors (and by extension all women) as a way for them to prevent them from exercising that personal liberaty that you're in favor of for yourself
Do I understand your position correctly?
btw - your viable life question is easy - take out the cluster of cells and if it lives then we know that's the viable age but if it dies then we know it's not viable. Keep doing that until the point where the thing doesn't die and then we'll call that the "viable" age. If that's too harsh for you then we can just go with our current defintion of viable.
Yes,like the way they leave men alone who may want to enhance their lives with steroids.We should leave women alone the day the filthy government legalises drugs for adults.
Gallup Poll. May 3-6, 2010. N=1,029 adults nationwide. MoE ± 4.
"With respect to the abortion issue, would you consider yourself to be pro-choice or pro-life?"
Pro-life: 47 percent
Pro-choice: 45 percent.
http://www.pollingreport.com/abortion.htm
New York city has instituted restrictions on salt in resturaunts so your wrong and that stupid skank Michelle "IM A TRANNY: Obama wants more restrictions.
As far as viable.If thats your definition then I assume your for pulling the plug on anyone thats being kept alive on machines.Because if you unplug those machines then they die.
Your post is foolish.There is a very real difference between the government restricting freedoms and an individual violating laws that he will be found guilty of and punnished for.Even terrorism wouldnt guarantee that they would be restricted from doing anything they wanted.BUT government passing laws which the constitution NEVER gave them a right to pass does gurantee that your liberty is gone.
I dont think abortion is ok.But I also dont want the government taking away personal liberty.If a women wants an abortion then the government says its fine.If I want to use EQ the same government says I cant because...well,they have never actually given a reason.So,just because I think its murder,the courts have ruled its not.
The pre-pre-born babies swimming around in my nutsack are entitled to a Ferrari and millions of dollars.
I think that's a stretch but they probably deserve some tax cuts once they are viable outside the womb
fetuses are already taxed too much
I know the majority of the fetus vote is against any type of publicy funded healthcare
Billy - I've tried to understand your point of view for the last 2 pages and I swear it somehow makes less sense the more you try to explain it.
First, this has nothing to do with salt in restaurants. You can consume all the salt and food you want in the state of New York and if you can't get what you want in a restaurant there is nothing stopping you from adding your own salt.
Here's what we know so far:
1. You're against abortion because you think it's murder
2. You laugh like a school girl when a doctor who performs abortions is murdered.
3. You think you (and people who think like you) are justified in terrorizing doctors and women who are exercising their own liberty and taking fully legal actions that you don't agree with but you also agree those people (the murders and terrorist) should be punished ( I think you said given the electric chair in the event of murder)
OK - a bit nutty but so far relatively consistent but then you also seem to believe the following
4. Until the government can prove with 100% certainty when life is viable then they should not restrict anyone access to abortion
5. Here's where I get lost - #'s 1 thru 4 are all still true ( to you) but if the government gives you legal access to any drugs (presumably you're mostly intgerested in steroid which you claim to have been on virtually continuously for 20+ yuears) , gay marriage, prostitutes and salt then abortion, though still murder (to you ) should be allowed/legal .
I think I can sum up your postion as follows:
Abortion (aka "murder" to you) is legal therefore you should be able to legally obtain any drug you want, get gay married and legally retain the services of prostitutes and also consume as much food and salt as you'd like
until that happens our country is unfair and restricting your liberty
Lets say in 2012 we have overwhelming republican majorities in the house and senate and a republican president.They pass a law outlawing abortions that the supreme court up holds.[/b][/size]
Do you think that will stop ONE abortion?I dont.You see,I think ANYTHING the government does is a failure.They once banned drinking,there were more drunks then ever.They banned drugs,more drugs then ever.They have a war on poverty there are more poor living in worse situations then ever.If they ban bad foods like Obama wants to there will be more fat people then ever.
The government is a failure.If they ban abortion,there will not be one less abortion,and those getting them will be in more danger then they are now.So,I believe its the killing of an innocent child.But the filthy government cant stop it,make it less prominant just like they cant stop anything else they try to stop.
So,your right,I think the filthy ,disgusting waste of time and money, failed government picks and chooses who gets liberty,what type of liberty and when you get it and its pretty sad that we have allowed it.The very same idiots like Joe Biden who scream that "STEROIDS MUST BE BANNED" are the very same ones that scream "A WOMEN HAS THE RIGHT TO DO WHAT SHE WANTS WITH HER BODY".I find that quite mind numbing.
[/b][/size]
I does appear that your mind is numb
If you truly believe that abortion is murder then how can you be ok with it provided you get your roids and salt and gay marriage?
Is every politial/social issue just a foil for you to argue for unfettered access to all the steroids you want.
Haven't you taken steroids virtually withouut a break for the last 20 years?
Billy - I've tried to understand your point of view for the last 2 pages and I swear it somehow makes less sense the more you try to explain it.
First, this has nothing to do with salt in restaurants. You can consume all the salt and food you want in the state of New York and if you can't get what you want in a restaurant there is nothing stopping you from adding your own salt.
Here's what we know so far:
1. You're against abortion because you think it's murder
2. You laugh like a school girl when a doctor who performs abortions is murdered.
3. You think you (and people who think like you) are justified in terrorizing doctors and women who are exercising their own liberty and taking fully legal actions that you don't agree with but you also agree those people (the murders and terrorist) should be punished ( I think you said given the electric chair in the event of murder)
OK - a bit nutty but so far relatively consistent but then you also seem to believe the following
4. Until the government can prove with 100% certainty when life is viable then they should not restrict anyone access to abortion
5. Here's where I get lost - #'s 1 thru 4 are all still true ( to you) but if the government gives you legal access to any drugs (presumably you're mostly intgerested in steroid which you claim to have been on virtually continuously for 20+ yuears) , gay marriage, prostitutes and salt then abortion, though still murder (to you ) should be allowed/legal .
I think I can sum up your postion as follows:
Abortion (aka "murder" to you) is legal therefore you should be able to legally obtain any drug you want, get gay married and legally retain the services of prostitutes and also consume as much food and salt as you'd like
until that happens our country is unfair and restricting your liberty
Did I say Im ok with it as long as drugs are legal?Drugs aren't legal now and I don't want the filthy government to ban abortion.Not sure why you keep saying it.Abortion CANT BE STOPPED!!!The government went from making steroids a midimeaner,to making d-bol a controlled substance to making all steroids a controlled substance to adding pro hormones as controlled substances .Has it stopped steroid use?In fact,its estimated that as many as 7 million people are using steroids in this country.So,once again,the government bans something,it multiplies the activity.As with everything,the government fails.
Imagine if they banned abortion.We have 3 million a year now,it would jump to 6 million and many would be done by butchers.Sorry,government CANT DO ANYTHING RIGHT.But legalising steroids has nothing to do with abortion unless you mean the total hypocrisy of claiming that your for a women having the right to do what she wants with her body but restrict a man from that same right.
Now,I don't care about gay marriage.I'm married to a women and have been for twenty years.You?But once again,the government banning it makes no sense.YES!!!!!!!!!!I have used steroids since 1987.This is a weight lifting site,is that a shocking revelation that there are guys on here who use steroids?Hey,guess what?People who compete use steroids,I know it may come as a shock to you.But the governments ban has done NOTHING to stop it.
Thank Jebus you can still get your hands on steroids
stil though, you believe abortion is murder but you don't think the governement should have any laws against it.
What are your views on post birth abortion.....you know just regular old murder.
Shouldn't the filthly incompetent government keep out of that too. Since you're for the legalization of all drugs should the filthy disgusting incompentent government have any say in that at all or should we just allow anyone to sell drugs anywhere and anytime. Maybe on the playground at school.
Thank Jebus you can still get your hands on steroids
stil though, you believe abortion is murder but you don't think the governement should have any laws against it.
What are your views on post birth abortion.....you know just regular old murder.
Shouldn't the filthly incompetent government keep out of that too. Since you're for the legalization of all drugs should the filthy disgusting incompentent government have any say in that at all or should we just allow anyone to sell drugs anywhere and anytime. Maybe on the playground at school.
Hmmm,I thought I said I was against the government taking liberty from people and made it a point to say as long as the behavior doesnt hurt others.Now,Ive also said I BELIEVE ABORTION IS MURDER but you dont and libs dont.So,unlike libs,I dont try to jam my views down others throats.So,since we cant prove when its a life Im not for the banning of it.Its very very simple.
YES I can get steroids but I have to break laws to do it.Why?Does it hurt you or anyone else if I use steroids.Nope,in fact it doesnt even hurt myself,but of course we have experts like Joe Biden and Henry Waxman who are expersts on the subject based on their vast medical training and intense study of steroids so they had to ban them.
I wonder what people here think about abortions done on Muslims?
if abortion is murder then isn't it hurting someone else (the murdered baby).
the current legal structure allows people who are against abortion to choose not to have one so how is that "jamming" views down someones throat. Anti Choice people are completely free to not get abortions
if abortion is murder then isn't it hurting someone else (the murdered baby).actually the current legal structure does not allow ppl to choose abortion or not, it allows women to choose abortion or not...MEN still have no say in matter at all >:( ;)
the current legal structure allows people who are against abortion to choose not to have one so how is that "jamming" views down someones throat. Anti Choice people are completely free to not get abortions
actually the current legal structure does not allow ppl to choose abortion or not, it allows women to choose abortion or not...MEN still have no say in matter at all >:( ;)
straw: "its her body, its her choice"
tony: "I agree its her body, so she should be the only one effected by her choice"
straw: "BLAH BLAH BLAH...jebus, jebus, jebus..."
actually the current legal structure does not allow ppl to choose abortion or not, it allows women to choose abortion or not...MEN still have no say in matter at all >:( ;)
straw: "its her body, its her choice"
tony: "I agree its her body, so she should be the only one effected by her choice"
straw: "BLAH BLAH BLAH...jebus, jebus, jebus..."
you also have the choice to use a condom and also the choice to not have sex.I agree and they should only effect the person who decides them not other parties that have no say...
the choices for both you and the woman begin and end with your own bodies.
pretty simple and easy to understand isn't it?
I agree and they should only effect the person who decides them not other parties that have no say...
Id say its pretty simple and easy to understand that?
she has all the same options a guy has, why does she get one more? b/c its her body which I can agree with but since its only her body and only her choice, why hold the guy responsible for her choice?
I assume you mean why hold the guy financially responsible for his own child?LOL well thats something that the guy and girl need to take into account before having unprotected sex and something the women needs to take into account when SHE has the decision to have an abortion or not...holding someone else responsible for another persons decision is assinine...
if you really need an answer to that question you should ask your parents
LOL well thats something that the guy and girl need to take into account before having unprotected sex and something the women needs to take into account when SHE has the decision to have an abortion or not...holding someone else responsible for another persons decision is assinine...
thats like saying that a women cant have an abortion b/c the man doesnt want her to ::)
but your idiocy and lack of logic is undoubtedly blocking you from seeing the inequality in rights in this situation...
LOL !when did I say I wouldnt support my kid? LOL another great leap of logic on your part ;)
ok Logic Master
whatever you say
you seem to understand it all the way up to the point of having to support the child
if you don't want to support your own child then I guess you want the tax payer to support your kid
like I said, if you really don't understand why you should support your own kid (regardless of the law) then you really should have a serious talk with your parents.
when did I say I wouldnt support my kid? LOL another great leap of logic on your part ;)
point is if it is her choice then she and she alone should bear the responsibiity of the actions...
when did I say I wouldnt support my kid? LOL another great leap of logic on your part ;)
point is if it is her choice then she and she alone should bear the responsibiity of the actions...
A man has no more right to force a woman to get an abortion than a woman does forcing a man to get a vasectomy.LOL there are more and more law suits every year about this so obviously there is some basis here. I agree she can decide what course of action but you still havent given any good argument for why the man has a say after but not before...you say that its b/c its his genetic contribution...is it still not his genetic contribution while its in her? or does it magically become only his genetic contribution after birth? ;)
It's that simple. There is not inequality at all. Trying to find some basis of one is not only mindnumbingly foolish, it's also incorrect. What is in a womans body is hers and if you happen to have a genetic say in the child then you will and are legally responsible. The woman because it's her body can decide what course of action she will take.
This isn't even an issue of national relevance. There are far more children abandoned by dead beat fathers in this country. Lets focus on that issue as it's more widespread and more destructive to our society.
way to contradict yourself in only two sentencesLMAO another fail in your logic...just b/c i feel that women who get pregnant should be prepared to bear the entire responsibility of her actions DOESNT mean that I feel that men shouldnt take care of their children...
LMAO another fail in your logic...just b/c i feel that women who get pregnant should be prepared to bear the entire responsibility of her actions DOESNT mean that I feel that men shouldnt take care of their children...
YOU SEE the difference is I believe they should get a choice JUST LIKE WOMEN DOOOO
I would choose to take care of my children...so how did i contradict myself?
yet again more failed logic from you ;)
so if you think that men should take care of their children then what is your point?OMG youre dense as shit
what exactly are you bitching about?
OMG youre dense as shit
my point is they should get a choice...just like women do, this doesnt mean im for men being dead beat fathers
your logic is that its her body and her fetus to do with what she wants, correct?
you make all the choices for your body and she makes the choices for her body.
If a child is born then both parents need to be responsible for that kid
what part of that don't you agree with?
you make all the choices for your body and she makes the choices for her body.the problem is its not just her body...there is a fetus...now is the fetus hers or both of theirs?
If a child is born then both parents need to be responsible for that kid
what part of that don't you agree with?
LOL there are more and more law suits every year about this so obviously there is some basis here. I agree she can decide what course of action but you still havent given any good argument for why the man has a say after but not before...you say that its b/c its his genetic contribution...is it still not his genetic contribution while its in her? or does it magically become only his genetic contribution after birth? ;)
logic its a bitch for morons...
and I agree that this isnt a pressing concern but its just annoying as hell to see hypocrisey...
you also have the choice to use a condom and also the choice to not have sex.
the choices for both you and the woman begin and end with your own bodies.
pretty simple and easy to understand isn't it?
Uh it doesn't 'magically' become his, it is his. Once a child is born it is the legal responsibility of both parents.if it is his then why doesnt he get any say in it?
Uh it doesn't 'magically' become his, it is his. Once a child is born it is the legal responsibility of both parents.
the problem is its not just her body...there is a fetus...now is the fetus hers or both of theirs?
if its hers then she and she alone should bear the responsibility of her choice...if its both of theirs then why doesnt the man get an equal choice?
the problem is its not just her body...there is a fetus...now is the fetus hers or both of theirs?tony - did you miss health class in middle school ?
if its hers then she and she alone should bear the responsibility of her choice...if its both of theirs then why doesnt the man get an equal choice?
tony - did you miss health class in middle school ?ok so why is the man repsonsible for something that is soley the womans?
The fetus is part of the womans body
If a living kid pops out then its the responsility of both (but we already agree on that right?)
tony - did you miss health class in middle school ?you didnt answer my question...my question was is the fetus hers or does it belong to both of them?
The fetus is part of the womans body
If a living kid pops out then its the responsility of both (but we already agree on that right?)
you didnt answer my question...my question was is the fetus hers or does it belong to both of them?sorry Tony, I forgot how easily you get confused
if it is hers than she and she alone should have say over what happens to it and SHE AND SHE ALONE should take responsibility over her property...
if its both of theirs then they should both get a say...
the fetus doesnt magically become both of theirs after birth, it was either hers or theirs all along...which one is it?
sorry Tony, I forgot how easily you get confusedand what logical reason do you have to say that its hers at one point and theirs at another? why does ownership change?
Fetus grows inside the mommies womb and is part of her body which is hers. Once rhe baby pops out now its the responsibility of the mommy and daddy. No magic involved but if still confused you should call your own parents
and what logical reason do you have to say that its hers at one point and theirs at another? why does ownership change?
what makes it his responsibility straw?
LMAO this is where you getstupid...stupider ;)
Classicanswer the question straw...why is it the mans responsibility?
you're an adult you appears to not understand how babies are made and you're calling me stupid
how many times are you going to ask me the same questions
seriously man, you should go read a book or ask a doctor these questions if you really don't undersand
answer the question straw...why is it the mans responsibility?
you didnt answer my question...my question was is the fetus hers or does it belong to both of them?
if it is hers than she and she alone should have say over what happens to it and SHE AND SHE ALONE should take responsibility over her property...
if its both of theirs then they should both get a say...
the fetus doesnt magically become both of theirs after birth, it was either hers or theirs all along...which one is it?
I know you are talking to straw. But If i knocked up a woman and she wanted to have an Abortion, I would have a BIG problem with it. I think the Man has some say in it even though he's not carrying.
sorry Tony no time for dumb questions tonight.LMAO well when you want to look like a fool come back and bump this thread dumb ass
you're not my child and I have not time tonight for you
If you don't know the answer then ask your parents
I know you are talking to straw. But If i knocked up a woman and she wanted to have an Abortion, I would have a BIG problem with it. I think the Man has some say in it even though he's not carrying.I disagree it is her body and she should be the one to make the choice...I do believe that the man should get a similiar choice though...
LMAO well when you want to look like a fool come back and bump this thread dumb ass
I disagree it is her body and she should be the one to make the choice...I do believe that the man should get a similiar choice though...
already came back dipship but just feel no need to take on the role of your parent and teach you the facts of lifeLMAO im not saying I should be able to force a chick to have an abortion YOU NUMB NUT FUCK!!!!!!!! way to pay attention...
If you feel so strongly about your point of view then knock up some chick and then try to force her to keep the baby
when you're in court be sure to tell the judge how stupid he is
don't forget to use your dazzling logic
What do you mean about a man getting a similar choice?the woman gets a choice of abortion or not(basically whether to walk away or not) the man should get an equivilant choice...basically saying either yes he will be in the life of the child or no he doesnt want anything to do with the child and sign over all parental rights(his form of abortion)
LMAO im not saying I should be able to force a chick to have an abortion YOU NUMB NUT FUCK!!!!!!!! way to pay attention...
why is the child the mans responsibility straw? say it and ill show you the fallacy of your ways...
already came back dipship but just feel no need to take on the role of your parent and teach you the facts of life
If you feel so strongly about your point of view then knock up some chick and then try to force her to keep the baby
when you're in court be sure to tell the judge how stupid he is
don't forget to use your dazzling logic
Straw is just expressing sour grapes over the fact that he can't get pregnant.
Goodness knows he and his partner Terrance have been trying for years now.
Straw is just expressing sour grapes over the fact that he can't get pregnant.
Goodness knows he and his partner Terrance have been trying for years now.
you're cracking me up manLOL you got me, I was wrong but youre doing the same thing dumb ass...I never said I should be able to force a girl to not get an abortion...did i?
you're criticizing me for something I didn't say and then telling me "way to pay attention"?
did I say you should be able to force a chick to have an abortion?
LOL you got me, I was wrong but youre doing the same thing dumb ass...I never said I should be able to force a girl to not get an abortion...did i?
Youre saying that I feel I should be able to keep a girl from having an abortion....I never said that...
way to pay attention... ;)
why dont you just answer the question so I can make you look like the idiot you are?
why does the man have responsibility to the child?
I'm pretty sure we've had this conversation beforeit has nothing to do with me having a say over her body, I think she should have a say over what happens to her body but that its her choice alone so her responsibility alone...
It think this is your postion but please clarify where I have it wrong
I think you are saying that.....
if you get a girl pregnant and you (the man) are not given then option to either force her to abort or carry that child then you (the man) are entitled to what you believe is the equivalent option of not being forced to be financially responsible for the child
please clarify any part I've misunderstood
it has nothing to do with me having a say over her body, I think she should have a say over what happens to her body but that its her choice alone so her responsibility alone...
since though you believe its also the mans responsibility its only fair that he get an equal option...it would probably take the form of no financial responsibility for his legal rights but thats not the point the point is that the MAN SHOULD HAVE AN EQUAL CHOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yes, I get it .... "equal" choicethere isn't a percieved inequality there is an inequality, even the ppl who disagree with my points can agree to that.
you think there is some inequality in pregancy and that (at least in the US under our current laws) that the inequality is in favor of the woman.......correct?
there isn't a percieved inequality there is an inequality, even the ppl who disagree with my points can agree to that.
Again why is the child the mans responsibility?
kind of ironic considering your father told me that's how you were conceived
what are the inequalities that you perceive ?weve gone over this before straw...I ask you 5 questions that you refuse to answer then ask me one and get pissed I dont answer it...
the woman gets a choice of abortion or not(basically whether to walk away or not) the man should get an equivilant choice...basically saying either yes he will be in the life of the child or no he doesnt want anything to do with the child and sign over all parental rights(his form of abortion)
Interesting take, I believe they are both morally wrong, but the logic is good. lolthanks and I agree I personally would never marry someone who would abort our child and I personally would never turn my back on a child of mine. I personally think that abortions should be outlawed with exceptions to rape and mothers health not b/c I think its wrong(b/c who am I to tell someone else whats right or wrong) but b/c it is 99.99% preventable in this day in age. Its not though so as long as you give the woman a choice the man deserves an equal choice.
weve gone over this before straw...I ask you 5 questions that you refuse to answer then ask me one and get pissed I dont answer it...
since I asked you first its polite for you to answer mine first then I will answer yours...
why is the child the mans responsibility?
how many times can I answer the same question.LMAO why does the man have responsibility to the child straw?
The child is not the mans responsibilty - the child is the responsibility of both parents.
LMAO why does the man have responsibility to the child straw?
ill give you credit youre finding many ways to side step the answer...as you know it will show the lack of logical thinking that you have
why does the man have responsibility to the child?
it has nothing to do with me having a say over her body, I think she should have a say over what happens to her body but that its her choice alone so her responsibility alone...
since though you believe its also the mans responsibility its only fair that he get an equal option...it would probably take the form of no financial responsibility for his legal rights but thats not the point the point is that the MAN SHOULD HAVE AN EQUAL CHOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I answered yours (many times) now you answer mineNOOOO you did not answer the question...
NOOOO you did not answer the question...
why does the man have responsibility to the child straw?
please post a link to the answer if you have maybe I missed it
answer my question or I'm done wasting my time with youits manners straw to answer the question posed first, first...
why does the man have responsibility to the child straw?
its manners straw to answer the question posed first, first...
you havent answered my question...or quote your answer I may have missed it...
his kid = his repsonsibility
that's your answer now answer a question of mine
I'll even give you an easy one
Yes or No
If abortion were illegal and the state forced the woman to give birth then would be the man still be entitled to the option of walking away from his responsiblity?
First answer Yes or No and then if you want to explain your answer thats fine too
The child would not exist without the man's contribution to the process.THANK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUU lurker I am very much appreciative for your straight forwardness...
his kid = his repsonsibilityfirst off if it b/c its his kid then logically its his fetus as well so why doesnt he get a say over what happens to the fetus?
that's your answer now answer a question of mine
I'll even give you an easy one
Yes or No
If abortion were illegal and the state forced the woman to give birth then would be the man still be entitled to the option of walking away from his responsiblity?
First answer Yes or No and then if you want to explain your answer thats fine too
first off if it b/c its his kid then logically its his fetus as well so why doesnt he get a say over what happens to the fetus?
No the man would not have the option to walk away in your scenario...its about equality like holmes said if you give the option to one you need to give the option to the other...right now we only give one person the option...
so in your mind the "walk away" option is predicated upon the man having no say over whether the woman choose to have the baby or have an abortion
correct?
it has nothing to do with me having a say over her body, I think she should have a say over what happens to her body but that its her choice alone so her responsibility alone...
since though you believe its also the mans responsibility its only fair that he get an equal option...it would probably take the form of no financial responsibility for his legal rights but thats not the point the point is that the MAN SHOULD HAVE AN EQUAL CHOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
first off if it b/c its his kid then logically its his fetus as well so why doesnt he get a say over what happens to the fetus?
first off if it b/c its his kid then logically its his fetus as well so why doesnt he get a say over what happens to the fetus?
your position makes no senseLMAO where do I claim I want control over a womans body? ::)
you claim to not want control over the womans body yet you also claim BECAUSE you dont' have control that you should be given (what you believe is an equivalent option) of not being financially repsonsible for the child.
This makes NO SENSE
LMAO where do I claim I want control over a womans body? ::)
your stance makes no sense you say b/c its part his kid, well the kid was developed from a fetus that was guess what half his so according to your logic he should have the same say over the fetus as he does the child...
first off if it b/c its his kid then logically its his fetus as well so why doesnt he get a say over what happens to the fetus?
first off if it b/c its his kid then logically its his fetus as well so why doesnt he get a say over what happens to the fetus?LMAO this is the example of what happens if you follow your logic you dumb fuck!!!!!!!! :o :o ::) FUKING WOW!!!!!!!!!!! seriously wow dude!!!
I've posted the numbers numerous times. The majority of the country is either pro life or favors restrictions on abortions.For the first time since the Roe vs Wade decision was handed down, the pro-life community outweighs the pro-choice community. It's still close, but last I saw (w/in last 4 months) it was 51% in support of life and 48% in support of abortion. I'll see if I can find some more info.
LMAO this is the example of what happens if follow your logic you dumb fuck!!!!!!!! :o :o ::) FUKING WOW!!!!!!!!!!! seriously wow dude!!!
i.e. you have no response because you either don't understand or you understand and you have no defense of your position
if you don't want to the have some control over the fetus (i.e. the womans body) then why do you keep bringing it up as justification for your beliefe that you should be able to walk away from your financial obligation
i.e. you have no response because you either don't understand or you understand and you have no defense of your positionOMG i am showing your the flaws in your logic...you think the man has responsibility to the child b/c its his, the fetus is his correct? so logically according to you b/c its his as well he should have responsibility to it and therefor have a say in it...thats where your logic leads...NOT MINE
if you don't want to the have some control over the fetus (i.e. the womans body) then why do you keep bringing it up as justification for your beliefe that you should be able to walk away from your financial obligation
I dont feel he should have a say over what she does with her body but if she gets a choice so should he.....
you do get a choiceLMAO yes but she then gets another choice in which the man is held accountable for, then the man doesnt have a choice over his own body anymore...
you get the same choice she does
you get to decide what to do with your own body
I thought we already covered that
LMAO yes but she then gets another choice in which the man is held accountable for, then the man doesnt have a choice over his own body anymore...
youre going in circles straw....heres a clue when the majority of others disagrees with you they may have a point you should look at ;)
LMAO yes but she then gets another choice in which the man is held accountable for, then the man doesnt have a choice over his own body anymore...
youre going in circles straw....heres a clue when the majority of others disagrees with you they may have a point you should look at ;)
wow - so much nonsense on a few sentencespart of his paycheck is determined on whether she has the child or not isnt it? does the woman pay money to the man for having an abortion?
majority of others? what are you even talking about ?
how does the woman control the mans body?
part of his paycheck is determined on whether she has the child or not isnt it? does the woman pay money to the man for having an abortion?
you said they both have control over their own bodies well then they should both take responsibility for those choices since the man doesnt have a choice then he shouldnt be held responsible...
I think women should have a choice but that they and they alone should bear the responsibility of that choice either that or you give the man a choice as well...
dude there are so many inequalities here that its not even funny the fact that you refuse to acknowledge one is just assinine...
I asked you to list the inequalities before and you didn't do itdid you mean to type inequalities for women?
I assume you're aware of the equalities for woman too right?
Are you Pro Choice.........Yes or No
did you mean to type inequalities for women?
and socially pro choice, personally pro life...
yes - I meant to type inequalities for womanI would never want a woman carrying my child to have an abortion unless it put her life at risk...i wouldnt try to tell someone else how to live their life...
so you're personally pro-life and I assume you would never want a woman to have an abortion correct and can we also assume you would support any child of your regardless of whether you wanted it or not
I would never want a woman carrying my child to have an abortion unless it put her life at risk...i wouldnt try to tell someone else how to live their life...
the only child I would have would be one that I wanted as again pregnancy is 99.99% preventable...
if pregnancy is preventable then why don't you want to make both man and woman responsible for their own actions.I agree that both men and women should be responsible for their actions but you see as of right now the women has the opportunity to shirk hers so the opportunity should also be given to the man to even out the INEQUALITY...
With your plan any man could go out and knock up a 100 woman and not be financially resonsible for any of those children
I agree that both men and women should be responsible for their actions but you see as of right now the women has the opportunity to shirk hers so the opportunity should also be given to the man to even out the INEQUALITY...
true but in your plan any woman could go get knocked up by 100 men and not be financially responsible as well...why the double standard?
so in your mind the "walk away" option is predicated upon the man having no say over whether the woman choose to have the baby or have an abortion
correct?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
again - you keep bringing that so called inequality as the reason why you believe man should get to walk away but when I asked you said "NO"The inequality is that the woman has a choice and the man doesnt...thats why he should be given a choice so it will be equal...The NOOOOOOO part is in reference to your continually falsel accusation that I think the way I do b/c a man should be able to tell a woman what to do with her body
you can't have it both ways
It makes no sense
it also makes no senses that you say that pregnancy is 99.99% preventable yet don't want to hold the man respnosible for a result which he is fully capable of preventing
Don't you think a society has a right to require both Mother and Father to support their own children regardless of whether they wanted the kid or not?
Tonylets concentrate on the main one, not under our laws its not fair b/c both had presumably consentual sex yet only one is given the choice of walking away...the result of that baby was an choice that was given to both equally, now the option to walk away from that pregnancy is now reserved to one person...so now you have a person with 2 choices and a person with 1...there is an inequality there 2 choices to 1 choice.
Let take this simple scenario
man and woman have sex and woman get's pregnant
Ignore for now whether either one wants the kid or not (we'll address that later)
At this point are they equal or does one party have an "unfair" advantage over the other?
In your mind "life" must be made fair but first we need to know all the "unfairness" so list all the inequities and how each one should be offset to make the whole deal "fair" for everyone
The inequality is that the woman has a choice and the man doesnt...thats why he should be given a choice so it will be equal...The NOOOOOOO part is in reference to your continually falsel accusation that I think the way I do b/c a man should be able to tell a woman what to do with her body
if you want to hold the man accountable for something that is 99.99% preventable like you do, why do you feel its acceptable to let the woman shirk her responsibility?
youre missing the point the law should be equal to men and women
right now women have the right to walk away but men do not, wouldnt you agree?