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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Danny on July 17, 2010, 09:56:07 PM
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/17/national/main6687832.shtml (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/17/national/main6687832.shtml)
(AP) Minutemen groups, a surge in Border Patrol agents, and a tough new immigration law aren't enough for a reputed neo-Nazi who's now leading a militia in the Arizona desert.
Jason "J.T." Ready is taking matters into his own hands, declaring war on "narco-terrorists" and keeping an eye out for illegal immigrants. So far, he says his patrols have only found a few border crossers who were given water and handed over to the Border Patrol. Once, they also found a decaying body in a wash, and alerted authorities.
But local law enforcement authorities are nervous given that Ready's group is heavily armed and identifies with the National Socialist Movement, an organization that believes only non-Jewish, white heterosexuals should be American citizens and that everyone who isn't white should leave the country "peacefully or by force."
"We're not going to sit around and wait for the government anymore," Ready said. "This is what our founding fathers did."
An escalation of civilian border watches have taken root in Arizona in recent years, including the Minutemen movement. Various groups patrol the desert on foot, horseback and in airplanes and report suspicious activity to the Border Patrol, and generally, they have not caused problems for law enforcement.
But Ready, a 37-year-old ex-Marine, is different. He and his friends are outfitted with military fatigues, body armor and gas masks, and carry assault rifles. Ready takes offense at the term "neo-Nazi," but admits he identifies with the National Socialist Movement.
"These are explicit Nazis," said Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Project. "These are people who wear swastikas on their sleeves."
Ready is a reflection of the anger over illegal immigration in Arizona. Gov. Jan Brewer signed a controversial new immigration law in April, which requires police, while enforcing other laws, to question a person's immigration status if officers have a reasonable suspicion that the person is in the country illegally.
But Brewer hasn't done enough, Ready said, and he's not satisfied with President Barack Obama's decision to beef up security at the border.
Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu said there haven't been any incidents with Ready's group as they patrol his jurisdiction, which includes several busy immigrant smuggling corridors. But Babeu is concerned because an untrained group acting without the authority of the law could cause "extreme problems," and put themselves and others in danger.
"I'm not inviting them. And in fact, I'd rather they not come," Babeu said. "Especially those who espouse hatred or bigotry such as his."
Law enforcement officials said patrols like Ready's could undercut the work of the thousands of officers on duty every day across the border, especially if they try to enforce the law themselves in carrying out vigilante justice.
Ready said his group has been patrolling in the desert about 50 miles south of Phoenix, in an area where a Pinal County Sheriff's deputy reported he was shot by drug smugglers in April.
Bureau of Land Management rangers met Ready's group during one patrol, and they weren't violating any laws or looking for a confrontation, said spokesman Dennis Godfrey.
The patrols have been occurring on public land, and militia members have no real restrictions on their weaponry because of Arizona's loose gun laws.
The militia is an outgrowth of border watch groups that have been part of the immigration debate in Arizona. Patrols in the Arizona desert by Minutemen organizations brought national attention to illegal immigration in 2004 and 2005.
Such groups continue to operate in Arizona, and law enforcement officials generally don't take issue with them as long as they don't take matters into their own hands.
Border Patrol spokesman Omar Candelaria said the agency appreciates the extra eyes and ears but they would prefer actual law enforcement be left to professionals.
Former Minutemen leader Al Garza recently created the Patriot's Coalition, which uses scouts and search-and-rescue teams to alert the Border Patrol and provide first aid to illegal immigrants.
Depending on the availability of volunteers and the scouts' evidence of border crossers, patrols can vary from several times a week to once a month, Garza said. The operation is about 500 people, and includes a neighborhood watch program, legislative advisers and a horseback patrol, he said.
Technology, rather than manpower, is the focus of Glenn Spencer's American Border Patrol. The group is based at his ranch near the border. The five-man operation flies three small airplanes to ensure that his American Border Patrol is present and visible along the international line.
Spencer also uses Internet-controlled cameras and works with a group called Border Invasion Pics, which posts photos of people they suspect are crossing illegally.
"Sitting out there with a bunch of volunteers looking for people is generally a tremendous waste of people and time," Spencer said. "And it's also dangerous."
Ready said he's planning patrols throughout the summer.
"If they don't want my people out there, then there's an easy way to send us home: Secure the border," he said. "We'll put our guns back on the shelf, and that'll be the end of that."
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Big deal... ::)
He's defending out boarder which is more than I can say for our government...
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maybe obama should take note, infact why dont these guys get our tax money, they are doing the work the fed should be
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I am happy americans are patrolling the borders!!
As long as they don't break the law, I don't care the motive nor the belief systems they employ.
Patrol the border, hand the illegals a bottle of water, and call it in. Hell yes! Just as every american should kick scumbags off their block... I praise any american who protects their border!
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Yet Danny has no problem with black supremicists patrolling polling places. Go figure. ::) ::) ::) ::)
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maybe obama should take note, infact why dont these guys get our tax money, they are doing the work the fed should be
The only actions the fed has taken in this matter is opposing and filing lawsuits against the only type of solution AZ has right now - the one they were forced to come up with after waiting patiently for help from Jr. and, most recently, the mighty Kenyan prophet.
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Yet Danny has no problem with black supremicists patrolling polling places. Go figure. ::) ::) ::) ::)
No doubt.
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Big deal... ::)
He's defending out boarder which is more than I can say for our government...
This. I'm a supporter of Posse Cosmatatos, so I'd prefer "ordinary" citizens to patrol the border.
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Yet Danny has no problem with black supremicists patrolling polling places. Go figure. ::) ::) ::) ::)
You are a very strange individual. What the fuck are you talking about again???????
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Another classic deflection, com on 33333 stay on topic! :)
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Come back when they do something wrong. As it stands, patrolling the border, giving illegals water and handing them over to Border Patrol isn't anything bad. Who cares what their beliefs are as long as they aren't doing anything illegal? First amendment, check it as I know liberals seem to have a massive problem with it. ;)
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At Least someone is trying to do something.
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If there haven't been any problems with this guy's group (they even give the illegals they find water, how EVIL of them), then why is this even newsworthy? Oh wait, the MSM is trying to vilify anyone who is anti-amnesty. ::)
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Well done! More citizens should follow their excellent example!
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If there haven't been any problems with this guy's group (they even give the illegals they find water, how EVIL of them), then why is this even newsworthy? Oh wait, the MSM is trying to vilify anyone who is anti-amnesty. ::)
Exactly, the far left and emotionally driven morons think, by accusing someone of the scarlet letter "R", we will back off.
I fully applaud this group and what they are doing.
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If there haven't been any problems with this guy's group (they even give the illegals they find water, how EVIL of them), then why is this even newsworthy? Oh wait, the MSM is trying to vilify anyone who is anti-amnesty. ::)
It's probably not a good thing really that could eventually lead to incidents. We need sanctioned or official people out there patrolling our borders not vigilante neo nazi nut jobs.
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It's probably not a good thing really that could eventually lead to incidents. We need sanctioned or official people out there patrolling our borders not vigilante neo nazi nut jobs.
Its probably not a good thing that the stupid govt refuses to do its job. If the taxpayers and citizens keep getting victimized by these invaders, and the traitors like bush and obama refuse to do their job, then I have no problem with the citzens taking matters in their own hands.
Or maybe Michell Obama or Laura Bush needs to get gang raped, jenna bush or obama's daughters molested, by these illegals before they decide to take their oath of office seriously.
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Its probably not a good thing that the stupid govt refuses to do its job. If the taxpayers and citizens keep getting victimized by these invaders, and the traitors like bush and obama refuse to do their job, then I have no problem with the citzens taking matters in their own hands.
Or maybe Michell Obama or Laura Bush needs to get gang raped, jenna bush or obama's daughters molested, by these illegals before they decide to take their oath of office seriously.
I agree somewhat, in the absence i supposed its better than nothing. however, the potential for wrong doing at the hands of people who believe in white supremacy is as sure as chicken at a banquet.
Don't look for our Corporate controlled government to do anything about it.
PS: You really need to see someone about your anger.
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The reason I wrote that Ozmo is because every week in my daily news there are numerous stories of illegals molesting children, killing people in DWI's, rapes, etc.
Until these types of crimes, that us citizens have to deal with, hit home with those charges with enforcing the law, they will not take it seriously.
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The reason I wrote that Ozmo is because every week in my daily news there are numerous stories of illegals molesting children, killing people in DWI's, rapes, etc.
Until these types of crimes, that us citizens have to deal with, hit home with those charges with enforcing the law, they will not take it seriously.
I see. I think we are at least getting some national attention on the matter with what Arizona did. As more and more Americans become aware the more we will head in the right direction.
Texas needs to be next.
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33 isn't all just irrational anger.
He's spirited and passionate - and often with good reason.
He also needs to pick up the slack for people who don't see and/or care about what's going on.
;D
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I see. I think we are at least getting some national attention on the matter with what Arizona did. As more and more Americans become aware the more we will head in the right direction.
Texas needs to be next.
Ozmo - why do you think the RW hated Bush more than anything else? Illegal immigration.
If you look when Bush really tanked, yes it was the war, but it was also in Feb 2005 when Jorge Boosh tried to ram amnesty through along with Kennedy and McLame.
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someone else posted it a few days ago... whichever party legalizes the illegals will get many of the illegals' votes.
It's why mccain/bush/palin all supported the bill, why obama/biden supports the bill, and palin/romney (or whoever is next) will support the bill.
Amnesty will happen fellahs. Your queen Palin said under her presidency, if the illegals sign a paper, they get to stay. it's that simple. All the geniuses who said "but but but she's against it 240!" have been very silent since she clarified her damn position on the issue.
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someone else posted it a few days ago... whichever party legalizes the illegals will get many of the illegals' votes.
It's why mccain/bush/palin all supported the bill, why obama/biden supports the bill, and palin/romney (or whoever is next) will support the bill.
Amnesty will happen fellahs. Your queen Palin said under her presidency, if the illegals sign a paper, they get to stay. it's that simple. All the geniuses who said "but but but she's against it 240!" have been very silent since she clarified her damn position on the issue.
Not is states have anything to say about it. I read that 7 states are now in the process of doing what AZ did. Good for them. Enough of the barbarian invasion.
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someone else posted it a few days ago... whichever party legalizes the illegals will get many of the illegals' votes.
It's why mccain/bush/palin all supported the bill, why obama/biden supports the bill, and palin/romney (or whoever is next) will support the bill.
Amnesty will happen fellahs. Your queen Palin said under her presidency, if the illegals sign a paper, they get to stay. it's that simple. All the geniuses who said "but but but she's against it 240!" have been very silent since she clarified her damn position on the issue.
LOL at your palin obsession, I was unaware she ran for president or is running for president...did you get that from the nat enq too? ::) ::) ::)
whoever secures the borders without amnesty will get more votes 240 as the majority of citizens...YOU KNOW THOSE PPL WHO VOTE? are against amnesty and are for securing our borders...
your logic doesnt make sense...again....
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FBI: Man admits running sexual delivery service
Agency says workers mostly female illegal immigrants
By J.J. Stambaugh
Knoxville News Sentinel
Posted July 17, 2010 at midnight
________________________ ________________________ ________
Selvin Salvador Perdomo is accused in a federal indictment of running a massive prostitution ring from this house, at 5101 Papermill Drive in Knoxville. Perdomo rented the house from Robert Haws, a retired attorney, who said he will evict him.
Selvin Salvador Perdomo has been under FBI surveillance for at least a year.
Photo by J. Miles Cary
Buy this photo »
Carol and Helen Taylor, neighbors of Selvin Salvador Perdomo, sit Friday with their daughter, Annette Bowman. The Taylors said it was obvious Perdomo was being watched by police in the last year but that they never saw any illegal activity at the house.
Related document.FBI affidavit containing allegations against Perdomo
A 36-year-old Knoxville man arrested early this week has admitted to the FBI that he employed up to 400 female escorts who performed sex acts for cash in Knox and surrounding counties, court records show.
Selvin Salvador Perdomo, a Honduran national who is in the United States legally on a visa, ran the sexual delivery service out of a house he rented at 5101 Papermill Drive and almost exclusively employed female illegal immigrants of Hispanic descent, according to the FBI.
Perdomo took appointments through his cell phone and then drove the women to clients' homes in his red Ford Escort, records allege. In return for his services, the FBI alleges, Perdomo took half of the women's earnings.
His arrest came after at least a year of surveillance by an FBI task force that worked with the Knoxville Police Department, Knox County Sheriff's Office, Clinton Police Department and Blount County Sheriff's Office.
He is charged under a federal statute known as the Mann Act, which makes it a crime to transport people across state lines or U.S. borders for the purpose of prostitution.
Undercover agents lured him Tuesday to an apartment at 790 North Cedar Bluff Road with the promise of giving him cash in exchange for sexual favors with a prostitute identified as Catalina Flores, according to an affidavit filed by FBI Special Agent Clay Moss Anderson.
After collecting $60, Perdomo waited in the living room while Flores went into the bedroom with an undercover officer, Anderson said. When she removed her pants, the agent "gave the code word" that summoned a team of officers to take Perdomo into custody, the complaint stated.
Perdomo later admitted that he "transported illegal alien females for the purpose of engaging in illegal sex acts," records show.
"Perdomo admitted to engaging approximately ... 400 females in commercial sex acts over the past four years," Anderson said. "He said that he worked them approximately seven days a week and that almost all of the females were illegal aliens."
Flores told the agents that she lives in the Atlanta area, and Perdomo called her last week to ask if she wanted to work for him, records show. Perdomo picked her up on Monday and immediately put her to work, with sex acts quickly scheduled "for the entire week in Knoxville," the complaint stated. Flores, who had planned to return home Sunday after finishing her Knoxville appointments, wasn't charged, according to FBI Supervisory Special Agent Michael Maclean.
Perdomo's clients were almost exclusively Hispanic, and the FBI's Knoxville office became involved in the case as part of an ongoing probe into human trafficking being conducted by federal authorities in Memphis and Atlanta, he said.
The FBI had initially been told that Perdomo was using underage girls in the operation, "but we obviously didn't see that," Maclean said.
Perdomo's attorney, Tracy Jackson Smith, didn't return a phone call seeking comment. Perdomo waived a Friday detention hearing and remained jailed in Blount County.
Anderson's affidavit makes it clear that Perdomo had been under surveillance since last July. Over the past year, agents followed Perdomo and various women to mobile homes, apartments and houses in Knox, Blount, Loudon and Sevier counties, records show.
When FBI agents executed a search warrant on Perdomo's house, they found "a large quantity of condoms, lubricant, and other sex aids or supplies," along with "a yearly planner containing a log of females dating back to 2008," records show.
A young woman at Perdomo's house Friday identified herself as his stepdaughter but said she didn't want to be interviewed or photographed.
His neighbors, Carl and Helen Taylor, both 87, said that Perdomo lived at the house with his wife and children. They said that Perdomo spoke little or no English and that his wife had to translate when they hired him to mow their lawn.
While Perdomo was in many respects a good neighbor and the Taylors never saw any overtly illegal acts, it was obvious he was being watched by the police, said Carl Taylor.
"One night I went out about 10 p.m., just stretching my legs, you know, and all of a sudden there was a helicopter right above my head," he said. "That thing was whisper quiet."
Perdomo was growing corn, Taylor said, and he surmised that was why the helicopter was buzzing about.
"I thought they were checking to see if he was growing marijuana," he said.
Also, he said, police cars frequently drove by Perdomo's house and slowed down as if they were looking to see who was there.
Helen Taylor said it looked as though Perdomo was taking in boarders because of the number of people who seemed to be staying in the house. She also said that young women often came to the house but that there was nothing about their behavior that aroused suspicion.
"There were a lot of comings and goings," she said.
Perdomo had been renting the house from Robert Haws, a retired attorney, for several years. Haws said that Perdomo paid $650 a month, but he planned to evict him after hearing of his arrest.
"That's the end of him," Haws said. "His rear end is going out the door quick. I don't put up with that."
Haws' property manager said that Perdomo, who went by "Selvie," spoke only Spanish and paid his monthly rent in cash. Perdomo claimed to be a carpenter and, by all appearances, the family that lived there seemed fairly normal, he said.
Although a News Sentinel analysis shows that Knoxville led the state last year in the number of per capita prostitution-related arrests and citations, federal prosecutions for prostitution are rare. Most prostitution charges are misdemeanors brought in state court that typically result in a fine or a few days in jail.
J.J. Stambaugh may be reached at 865-342-6307.
________________________ ________________________ ________________
A young woman at Perdomo's house Friday identified herself as his stepdaughter but said she didn't want to be interviewed or photographed.[/color]
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/17/national/main6687832.shtml (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/17/national/main6687832.shtml)
(AP) Minutemen groups, a surge in Border Patrol agents, and a tough new immigration law aren't enough for a reputed neo-Nazi who's now leading a militia in the Arizona desert.
Jason "J.T." Ready is taking matters into his own hands, declaring war on "narco-terrorists" and keeping an eye out for illegal immigrants. So far, he says his patrols have only found a few border crossers who were given water and handed over to the Border Patrol. Once, they also found a decaying body in a wash, and alerted authorities.
But local law enforcement authorities are nervous given that Ready's group is heavily armed and identifies with the National Socialist Movement, an organization that believes only non-Jewish, white heterosexuals should be American citizens and that everyone who isn't white should leave the country "peacefully or by force."
Funny how so many people on this board seem to have no problem with this! Hopefully they don't secretly believe the same. ::)
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What's worse Loco - yahoos down at the border stopping the entry of these bums, or allowing them in and then having to pay massive taxes and costs to deal with the flop houses they run, prostution rings, drug deal, smuggling, etc?
If this govt refuses to do the job, I don't care if the Black Panthers join with the skin heads in patrolling the border with the billy clubs.
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Funny how so many people on this board seem to have no problem with this! Hopefully they don't secretly believe the same. ::)
Regardless of agreeing with it or not, this country lets people hold beliefs like that. I don't see why it's a problem if the group is causing no trouble.
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Regardless of agreeing with it or not, this country lets people hold beliefs like that. I don't see why it's a problem if the group is causing no trouble.
I agree with your statement, but then why all the complaining about Reverend Wright being racist? Is he causing trouble?
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I agree with your statement, but then why all the complaining about Reverend Wright being racist? Is he causing trouble?
I really couldn't care less about the guy but how is people criticizing him and Obama any different than what you're doing with this guy and his group?
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I really couldn't care less about the guy but how is people criticizing him and Obama any different than what you're doing with this guy and his group?
There is no difference. The World Wide Web gives people the freedom to criticize whoever they want. I for one hope people on this board do not believe that only straight, non-Jewish white people should be allowed to be American citizens. That's disgusting!
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There is no difference. The World Wide Web gives people the freedom to criticize whoever they want. I for one hope people on this board do not believe that only straight, non-Jewish white people should be allowed to be American citizens. That's disgusting!
I don't think too many people besides the usual gimmicks looking to stir shit up feel that way. In the amnesty threads you'll see that most people who are against amnesty have no problem with legal immigration. In-fact, I think most are quite welcoming of hard-working, educated, Indians, Asians and the like.
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:)
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Loius CK is f'ng hilsrious
btw - it's not really a suprise that neo-nazi groups are patrollign the border
they were tied to the guy who helped write the bill
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Loius CK is f'ng hilsrious
btw - it's not really a suprise that neo-nazi groups are patrollign the border
they were tied to the guy who helped write the bill
LOL thats like saying
its not really suprising that the black panther guy got off easy
the guy who appointed the AG sat in rev wrights church...
::)
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LOL thats like saying
its not really suprising that the black panther guy got off easy
the guy who appointed the AG sat in rev wrights church...
::)
yet another swing and a miss
the black panthers had nothing to do with Obama
It was Bush's DoJ that decided not to prosecute
I can't even find a thread of correlation between Wright and Holder
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the black panthers had nothing to do with Obama
It was Bush's DoJ that decided not to prosecute
I've shit all over obama for his DoJ not prosecuting this 2008 crime.
But is what you say true? Bush's people decided not to pursue this?
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I've shit all over obama for his DoJ not prosecuting this 2008 crime.
But is what you say true? Bush's people decided not to pursue this?
easily verifiable on the interweb
http://mediamatters.org/research/201007070020
http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/adam_serwer_archive?month=07&year=2010&base_name=when_was_the_new_black_panther
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easily verifiable on the interweb
http://mediamatters.org/research/201007070020
http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/adam_serwer_archive?month=07&year=2010&base_name=when_was_the_new_black_panther
This means that the case was downgraded to a civil case 11 days before Obama was inaugurated, 26 days before Eric Holder became attorney general
WOW!!!!!!!!!!! I had no idea.
Holy shit... 333386, what say you?
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This means that the case was downgraded to a civil case 11 days before Obama was inaugurated, 26 days before Eric Holder became attorney general
WOW!!!!!!!!!!! I had no idea.
Holy shit... 333386, what say you?
And? They got a default judgement against the guy and then decided to drop the case afterwards.
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And? They got a default judgement against the guy and then decided to drop the case afterwards.
So, it was downgraded to a civil case by the Bush DoJ and then dismissed because of the profound lack of evidence of any voter intimidation.
http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/adam_serwer_archive?month=07&year=2010&base_name=a_clarification_on_the_nbpp_ca
A Clarification on the NBPP Case.
As I've explained before, Section 11(b) cases, which are rare, are generally reserved for extensive voter-suppression schemes, which the two men standing outside the Philadelphia polling station did not amount to. The legal standard for proving Section 11(b) cases in the past has been extremely high, which is both why they're rare and why Section 11(b) complaints are generally filed in order to prevent large-scale voter suppression campaigns.
The original complaint in the NBPP case alleged that the behavior of the men outside the polling station was part of a larger scheme to disenfranchise white voters ("Prior to the election, Defendant New Black Panther Party For Self-Defense made statements and posted notice that over 300 members of the New Black Panther Party For Self-Defense would be deployed at polling locations during voting on November 4th 2008 throughout the United States"). But there's no evidence that's the case -- no voters in Philadelphia or elsewhere came forward to say they had been intimidated. One of them actually had a poll watching certificate, and the remarks from the NBPP leader state the obvious -- that the NBPP thought they were protecting blacks from being disenfranchised by whites. Basically what you have -- to the extent that you have anything -- is a conspiracy to wear black clothing outside of polling stations as part of a fringe group, which career attorneys at the Department of Justice weren't comfortable prosecuting as a violation of the Voting Rights Act.
If any of this is familiar, it's because we're down the ACORN rabbit hole again; despite the Government Accountability Office being unable to find a single instance in which a voter registered by ACORN cast a fraudulent ballot, the idea that the group regularly stole elections is an article of conservative faith. So with the NBPP case, with its allegation of a widespread voter-intimidation scheme that included no actual intimidated voters. Adding to the absurdity of all this is that had the case been pursued, the likely outcome would have been that instead of King Samir Shabazz -- who was brandishing a baton -- getting a slap on the wrist, the other members of the NBPP would have gotten the same slap on the wrist. The stakes here are incredibly low, which is probably one of the reasons the higher-ups in the division didn't think the case was worth pursuing.
A final point, and this is why the politicization of the Bush years is so relevant. The Washington Times has sought to portray the NBPP case as a matter of career attorneys being overruled on a legit case by political appointees -- a reversal of the charges made about the Voting Section during the Bush administration. Of the four names of Civil Rights Division attorneys on the original NBPP complaint, all have significant ties to the right or to the politicized leadership under Bush: J. Christian Adams worked for the National Republican Lawyers Association, as did Grace Chung Becker, whose nomination by the Bush administration for Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights was blocked because of her support for restrictive voter ID laws that disenfranchise minorities; Robert Popper previously worked on opposing minority voting districts; and Christopher Coates, who underwent a political conversion while at the DoJ and ended up being what Bradley Schlozman referred to as "a true member of the team" at a time when the Bush administration was conducting a purge of the liberals in the Civil Rights Division.
Whether one perceives as legitimate the "whistle-blowing" element to this case depends in part on the perceived neutrality of the players -- from the supposedly "bipartisan" but functionally conservative U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, to the staff members who filed the case. Describing these people as "career attorneys" is meant to suggest their decisions were apolitical when in fact they were all people who were hired or whose stock rose during an era of politicization.
btw -one of the guys standing in front of the polling staction actually had a poll watching certificate watching isseud by the Philadelphia County Board of Elections and he didn't have a billy club
IMO - both of these guys are almost certainly racist (having been previously recorded at a different time making racist comments) but there was no actual proof of voter suppression
http://www.mainjustice.com/2009/12/23/the-black-panther-case-a-legacy-of-politicized-hiring/
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What was in his hand Straw? To me is looks like a pipe or a bat.
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What was in his hand Straw? To me is looks like a pipe or a bat.
dude - you didn't look at anything I wrote or any of the links did you?
the guy with night stick was King Samir Shabazz and cops escorted him off the premises
the other guys name is Jerry Jackson and he is the one who actually had the poll watching certificate (and no baton that I can see) and he remained
BTW - both guys seem to be rasicst (based on prior remarks that they made) but then that is not really a suprise considering they are in the Blank Panthers
The salient point being that there was no actual voter suppression
Another interesting point is how this actually became a story
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Straw - i have worked elections since 2000 doing voter fraud and election monitoring in my attorney capacity. This is a big no no and actual supression of actual votes is not the standard.
The standing within 100 feet of a polling place like this with weapons is not allowed plain and simple.
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Straw - i have worked elections since 2000 doing voter fraud and election monitoring in my attorney capacity. This is a big no no and actual supression of actual votes is not the standard.
The standing within 100 feet of a polling place like this with weapons is not allowed plain and simple.
and I assume that's why the guy with the weapon was soon gone
there were no complaints and no actual evidence of any suppression and their claim for being there was to monitor suppression of black voters (which there were allegations of in prior elections).
again - from my link which you didn't bother to read:
Section 11(b) cases, which are rare, are generally reserved for extensive voter-suppression schemes, which the two men standing outside the Philadelphia polling station did not amount to. The legal standard for proving Section 11(b) cases in the past has been extremely high, which is both why they're rare and why Section 11(b) complaints are generally filed in order to prevent large-scale voter suppression campaigns.
again - I'm not condoning the acion of these guys but there seems to be nothing here but for some reason the right wing can't stop talking about it. The real story is how Bush political appointees ginned this is up and fed it to the media and the right winger just gobble it up and bounce it around the echo chamber without even bothering to learn the facts
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So why didn't Bush prosecute this guy?
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So why didn't Bush prosecute this guy?
They got default judgement against the guy when he failed to show up to court. Did you watch ANY of the clips for the attorneys who handled this/ Of course not, because it doesnt comport with your kneepadding and spin.
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why didn't bush pursue this as a criminal case? why give the guy a fine?
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why didn't bush pursue this as a criminal case? why give the guy a fine?
\
Because this is not a murder case and most of these things are handled with civil fines and injunctions like they got against the guy.
if the guy assaulted a voter or destroyed a voting booth, they might have, but from the video, criminal charges seem too much IMHO, especially if it was a first offense and the guy maybe was ignorant of the law.
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Because this is not a murder case and most of these things are handled with civil fines and injunctions like they got against the guy.
Actually, currently, the maximum penalty for conviction on a charge of voter intimidation under federal guidelines is a fine and/or no more than one year in prison.
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Epic thread backfire. Must be 20-3 in favor of the "neo-nazi group".
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Epic thread backfire. Must be 20-3 in favor of the "neo-nazi group".
you're saying the majority of this board is "in favor" of a neo-nazi group?
my only comment on the group was that it was not suprising they were patrolling the boarder since the person who wrote the bill has ties to neo-nazi and white supremecist groups
http://www.bloggernews.net/124388
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/white-supremacists-brag-they-helped-s
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you're saying the majority of this board is "in favor" of a neo-nazi group?
my only comment on the group was that it was not suprising they were patrolling the boarder since the person who wrote the bill has ties to neo-nazi and white supremecist groups
http://www.bloggernews.net/124388
http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/white-supremacists-brag-they-helped-s
Straw - does it matter what their beliefs are if they are not otherwise engaging in illegal behavior?
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you're saying the majority of this board is "in favor" of a neo-nazi group?
Did you read the entire thread? It's ok. Take your time. We know you are slow.
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Straw - does it matter what their beliefs are if they are not otherwise engaging in illegal behavior?
see, I may not agree with extreme views, but our constitution says everyone is allowed to have them. if someone wants to feel that way, so be it. As long as they break no laws, hey, have a nice life. it's america.
so whether it's black panthers or KKK... I disagree with them, but if they follow the law, what can you do.
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Straw - does it matter what their beliefs are if they are not otherwise engaging in illegal behavior?
I'd say no
same goes for abortion protestors or any other group I don't agree with
as long as they are not breaking any laws then it doesn't matter to me until they start breaking laws.
that doesn't mean I'm in favor of their group or even what they are doing (though in this case I'm neutral on what they are doing)
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I'd say no
same goes for abortion protestors or any other group I don't agree with
as long as they are not breaking any laws then it doesn't matter to me until they start breaking laws.
that doesn't mean I'm in favor of their group or even what they are doing (though in this case I'm neutral on what they are doing)
Fair enough.
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this is somewhat related to that 'mosque two city blocks from ground zero' argument.
Most of the people against it - far right constitutionalists - are actually supporting a suppression of the Constitution in this case. Freedom of religion, like it or not. What distance is 'acceptable' to put a mosque in NYC from ground zero, and where is this distance in the constitution?
As offensive as some might find it, the Constitution would say they have the freedom to put that mosque there. It would be anti-american to tell ANY church "You have to be 10 or 20 blocks from this or that"...
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this is somewhat related to that 'mosque two city blocks from ground zero' argument.
Most of the people against it - far right constitutionalists - are actually supporting a suppression of the Constitution in this case. Freedom of religion, like it or not. What distance is 'acceptable' to put a mosque in NYC from ground zero, and where is this distance in the constitution?
As offensive as some might find it, the Constitution would say they have the freedom to put that mosque there. It would be anti-american to tell ANY church "You have to be 10 or 20 blocks from this or that"...
240 - the issue is pissing people off locally, but people are more pissed off at the imam since there are places all over the city this can go. this is done solely for spite and for conquest, nothing else as lower manhhatan is mostly financial buildings and stuff like that.
legal stuff aside, its patently offensive and the imam in charge of this has many dubious connections and the financing of this 15 store disgrace is unclear. do you know what kind of money you need to build a 15 story building in NYC?
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240 - the issue is pissing people off locally, but people are more pissed off at the imam since there are places all over the city this can go. this is done solely for spite and for conquest, nothing else as lower manhhatan is mostly financial buildings and stuff like that.
legal stuff aside, its patently offensive and the imam in charge of this has many dubious connections and the financing of this 15 store disgrace is unclear. do you know what kind of money you need to build a 15 story building in NYC?
Hey, youre right about all of this. I'm sure ppl are irate.
I'm just saying that constitutionally - it involves telling a religion they can't practice there, because they're not popular.
So to me, it's ironic that 'unpopular' religions are denied their rights- by people who want to restore the constitution. I can see if the lib white house was trying to pick/choose which religions could practice where... but for the right to do it? odd.
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Fair enough.
I'll add that I think neo-nazis (or any similar group) acting as de-facto law enforcement in this capacity (border patrol) is probably a recipe for disaster but maybe that's just my preconceived prejudice about nazi's
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I'll add that I think neo-nazis (or any similar group) acting as de-facto law enforcement in this capacity (border patrol) is probably a recipe for disaster but maybe that's just my preconceived prejudice about nazi's
What about neighborhood watch organizations?
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After reading the entire article, I am left with only one question...
WTF do they have gas masks for??? BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
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What about neighborhood watch organizations?
I can't think of any activity in this country where being a nazi would be anything except a potential for problems
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240 - the issue is pissing people off locally, but people are more pissed off at the imam since there are places all over the city this can go. this is done solely for spite and for conquest, nothing else as lower manhhatan is mostly financial buildings and stuff like that.
legal stuff aside, its patently offensive and the imam in charge of this has many dubious connections and the financing of this 15 store disgrace is unclear. do you know what kind of money you need to build a 15 story building in NYC?
I think it's the ultimate show of freedom in the United States. It shows that we believe in freedom above all else including prejudice against Islam. I'm all for it actually and think it's a great idea. I believe it's going to be like a YMCA with a gym and other facilities. Probably get some good HG gear in there too from the Arabs bringing it over from the Middle East.
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I think it's the ultimate show of freedom in the United States. It shows that we believe in freedom above all else including prejudice against Islam. I'm all for it actually and think it's a great idea. I believe it's going to be like a YMCA with a gym and other facilities. Probably get some good HG gear in there too from the Arabs bringing it over from the Middle East.
I might agree with you if the imam running this had a history of that, but thats' not the case here KC.
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I'm just saying that constitutionally - it involves telling a religion they can't practice there, because they're not popular.
ok then tell every religion that they cant practice there what so ever turn it into a fucking del friscos steak house. then its not being bias to any religion
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ok then tell every religion that they cant practice there what so ever turn it into a fucking del friscos steak house. then its not being bias to any religion
that would be fairer. Zone it or whatever, for no religious group.
The moment we can 'pick and choose' which churches can go where... holy crap, we take a HUGE step back constitutionally.
33, you know the law better than any of us - how do you address this constitutionally?
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Maybe if they shoot enough of them the invasion will stop.
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that would be fairer. Zone it or whatever, for no religious group.
The moment we can 'pick and choose' which churches can go where... holy crap, we take a HUGE step back constitutionally.
33, you know the law better than any of us - how do you address this constitutionally?
Its up to the planning boards and zoning boards. Most have a lot of discretion in these matters but have to go according to what is known as a "Master Plan" which often sets the zoning laws etc. In this case, the planning board ok's the mosque over the objections of the residents, which has caused an uproar because usually the zoning of board of appeals is supposed to consider input from the community and the effect on the surrounding area.
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this is somewhat related to that 'mosque two city blocks from ground zero' argument.
Most of the people against it - far right constitutionalists - are actually supporting a suppression of the Constitution in this case. Freedom of religion, like it or not. What distance is 'acceptable' to put a mosque in NYC from ground zero, and where is this distance in the constitution?
As offensive as some might find it, the Constitution would say they have the freedom to put that mosque there. It would be anti-american to tell ANY church "You have to be 10 or 20 blocks from this or that"...
The people who are against it know they have the right to build one there. It has more to do with the question, "Why there?" Why, of all places, do they need to put a mosque at the place where the religion that the mosque represents killed 3,000+ people?
Even the Washington Post, liberal rag that it is, has come out and said it's not right to put one there. Mosques are built as a sign of Islamic supremacism (hence why thousands have been built over churches, temples and other houses of worship) and this mosque is a perfect example of that. Rubbing it in our faces after they've already killed 3,000+ people.
And while the mosque is a bad idea, the major problem is the guy leading the building of it, a man who is on paper calling for the establishment of Sharia Law in America, refuses to denounce terrorism, is not in favor of inter-faith dialogue, has ties to the Muslim Brotherhood, refuses to say where the financing for this $100m project is coming from (he says from American donors in English and then says it will be foreign funded in Arabic) and so and so on. His wife says that this center will help non-Muslims integrate (not the other way around). Integrate into what? Sharia Law.
It's just ridiculously distasteful, even down to the name of the project. And polling shows that Americans are against it by a 2:1 margin.
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i agree with ya BZ.... and i know ppl are against it.
I'm just looking at the constitutional argument (from the right) that the govt has zero business interfering with anything religion (or in this case, selective enforcement).
If a catholic church wanted to go up there, they'd be allowed.
So while you KNOW i'm not defending the ppl trying to put in this mosque - I'm just addressing the argument that those on the right are willing to trample the constitution in this case - because they don't like who is trying to enjoy its rights.