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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Immortal_Technique on July 23, 2010, 01:01:00 PM
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Not even his best, but literally no missing bodyparts.
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"that video doesn't count"
"you don't know how to judge a show"
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Not even his best, but literally no missing bodyparts.
Did you hear what the commentator said?
"The most incredible back in BBing history....Dorian was noted for his back, Lee Haney for his....But this man has the best back ever"
So....ND ;) being that someone "in the industry" said it....it must be true, right ??
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Not even his best, but literally no missing bodyparts.
"he looks like shit. There's a guy in my gym that's way bigger than him."
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Did you hear what the commentator said?
"The most incredible back in BBing history....Dorian was noted for his back, Lee Haney for his....But this man has the best back ever"
So....ND ;) being that someone "in the industry" said it....it must be true, right ??
the "Boston Mass" said so
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"he looks like shit. There's a guy in my gym that's way bigger than him."
My sisters best friends uncles roof tiler was bigger than him until he blew out his acl playing football
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My sisters best friends uncles roof tiler was bigger than him until he blew out his acl playing football
I know that guy.......he could have won multiple O's for sure
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"You had to see Dorian in person"
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I know that guy.......he could have won multiple O's for sure
Yeah, he was natural too, he only took an amino acid mix 324% more powerful than steroids.
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Not even his best, but literally no missing bodyparts.
Calves, decent midsection, conditioning?
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Did you hear what the commentator said?
"The most incredible back in BBing history....Dorian was noted for his back, Lee Haney for his....But this man has the best back ever"
So....ND ;) being that someone "in the industry" said it....it must be true, right ??
Yeah, the commentator also said "Ronnie Coleman is a police officer in Arlington, Texas. He has a full time job".
Not quite factually correct - Ronnie Coleman was a reserve police officer and by "full time", it means sitting on your ass most of the day eating protein and injecting steroids whilt waiting for the call from the station to take over from the real full-time guys.
Who was the commentator - Goodrum?
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Did you hear what the commentator said?
"The most incredible back in BBing history....Dorian was noted for his back, Lee Haney for his....But this man has the best back ever"
So....ND ;) being that someone "in the industry" said it....it must be true, right ??
That was Mike Mattarazzo and it's an opinion on a very subjective topic , should I posted the quotes from Samir on Dorian's back? ;)
works two ways.
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OK. Ronnie's the man, no doubt. But those two commentators were embarrassing. You want this activity/pastime/'sport' to be taken more seriously you need to get some people who can rise above simpering and homo-erotic dialogue. Sounded like Liberace and Oscar Wilde discussing which body-slave was preferable.
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Not even his best, but literally no missing bodyparts.
Missing no bodyparts ::) take your head out his ass and take a look at his TWO missing calves and his horrible midsection , his gut was really massive that year and his conditioning was shit compared to 99 and especially 98
he was big that year 264lbs but his hardness & dryness suffered for it , Levrone said he beat Ronnie this year ( not that I agree with that )
but to answer your question yes Dorian would beat that with ease
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That was Mike Mattarazzo and it's an opinion on a very subjective topic , should I posted the quotes from Samir on Dorian's back? ;)
works two ways.
Exactly...you really are dense aren't you ??
Aren't you the guy who posts quote after quote of so-called "authorities" praising Dorian...and basing your arguments of off these quotes??
The whole point of my posting what i did is to point out that...... it's just fucking words someone said and no one quote carries more "weight" than another.
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Exactly...you really are dense aren't you ??
Aren't you the guy who posts quote after quote of so-called "authorities" praising Dorian...and basing your arguments of off these quotes??
The whole point of my posting what i did is to point out that...... it's just fucking words someone said and no one quote carries more "weight" than another.
Hmmmmm WRONG one persons quote does carry more weight than another especially when it's on a NON-SUBJECTIVE topic like conditioning or muscle length or posing
learn the difference some topics are subjective ( who has the better back ) some topics aren't ( who was harder , drier while carrying more muscle )
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Gunter is the best bodybuilder ever next to Arnold.
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1995 would walk all over 2000 ;D
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Gunter is the best bodybuilder ever next to Arnold.
Gunter Swarzenneger?
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Gunter Swarzenneger?
If science could somehow combine these two great men.... wow... :o
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Gunter Swarzenneger?
Hahahaha what's funny is the same reason these guys claim Ronnie would beat Dorian , he's blocky and he doesn't have Ronnie's taper and separations and quads sweep , etc Gunther beat Ronnie despite all that because he was bigger and better conditioned and Jay same reason too , same size with better conditioning
and people are scratching their heads asking if this version of Ronnie could beat Dorian? lmfao
Dorian would make look soft & soggy ;D
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If science could somehow combine these two great men.... wow... :o
Imagine that. A guy with Ronnie's calves & gut and Dorian's arms...
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Imagine that. A guy with Ronnie's calves & gut and Dorian's arms...
We were talking about Arnold and Gunter. But yes, that would be a masterpiece too. ;D
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Hmmmmm WRONG one persons quote does carry more weight than another especially when it's on a NON-SUBJECTIVE topic like conditioning or muscle length or posing
learn the difference some topics are subjective ( who has the better back ) some topics aren't ( who was harder , drier while carrying more muscle )
Really.
Make me a list of the peoples who opinions matter versus those that don't, just so we all know ::)
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Really.
Make me a list of the peoples who opinions matter versus those that don't, just so we all know ::)
The judges, Dorian, Ronnie, a few competitors (ones that are unbiased, I.E. not shawn ray). Oh, and did I mention anyone that agrees with Doz. ;D
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Really.
Make me a list of the peoples who opinions matter versus those that don't, just so we all know ::)
I'll make a very short list for you
the judges matter and everyone else does NOT ;)
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Gunter is the best bodybuilder ever next to Arnold.
:D
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=329321.0;attach=369796;image)
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I'll make a very short list for you
the judges matter and everyone else does NOT ;)
OK...then so when you quoted Peter Horton , Peter Mcgough and various other writers and industry hacks...you were just talking out of your ass and you admit that it's just another opinion ??
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OK...then so when you quoted Peter Horton , Peter Mcgough and various other writers and industry hacks...you were just talking out of your ass and you admit that it's just another opinion ??
Oh.
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..
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I see what you did there. ;D
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OK...then so when you quoted Peter Horton , Peter Mcgough and various other writers and industry hacks...you were just talking out of your ass and you admit that it's just another opinion ??
Well compared to the judges YES compared to people who never even seen any of these guys live like Hulkster NO
some people's opinions carry more weight than others , on the subject of whose better there honestly is NO right and wrong because people like them for different reasons so no one is right or wrong in this context
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Well compared to the judges YES compared to people who never even seen any of these guys live like Hulkster NO
some people's opinions carry more weight than others , on the subject of whose better there honestly is NO right and wrong because people like them for different reasons so no one is right or wrong in this context
That's all I've been saying dude...glad to see you realize it too
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Well compared to the judges YES compared to people who never even seen any of these guys live like Hulkster NO
some people's opinions carry more weight than others , on the subject of whose better there honestly is NO right and wrong because people like them for different reasons so no one is right or wrong in this context
Release The Kraken ND! ;D
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Release The Kraken ND! ;D
i just saw the Clash of the Titans. I liked it.
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Release The Kraken ND! ;D
Boom two-two today ;D
you sir have a ' rapist wit '
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i just saw the Clash of the Titans. I liked it.
Ditto. Very entertaining and the action scenes were great. No complaints about the female casting either.
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1995 would walk all over 2000 ;D
Man Ronnie is crushing Yates in that back shot
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Man Ronnie is crushing Yates in that back shot
Whoa not even close , Ronnie's back is huge and wider and soft and holding water , Dorian's the epitome of conditioned mass and Ronnie looks a few weeks out in comparison
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Whoa not even close , Ronnie's back is huge and wider and soft and holding water , Dorian's the epitome of conditioned mass and Ronnie looks a few weeks out in comparison
Not in the shot you posted, he looks just as soft and has skin folds on his lower back.
I know there are better pics of Dorian...don't bother ;D
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Not in the shot you posted, he looks just as soft and has skin folds on his lower back.
I know there are better pics of Dorian...don't bother ;D
you couldnt find any lat spread pic of Dorian that could beat that pic of Ronnie
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Not in the shot you posted, he looks just as soft and has skin folds on his lower back.
I know there are better pics of Dorian...don't bother ;D
just as soft? dude get to a eye doctor post haste! and loose skin? that magically disappears when flexed? that's an oxymoron
this is from the same contest NO ' loose skin ' his name isn't Cutler , the lower back is one area Yates never held any fat or loose skin if that were the case his x-mass tree would be obscured and you can clearly see it's not
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you couldnt find any lat spread pic of Dorian that could beat that pic of Ronnie
I can find 10 ;)
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To anyone saying Dorian has loose skin in his lat spread, if you notice on the vids when he hits a RLS after he spreads his lats, he rocks his torso back, the way a RLS is supposed to be hit, and when you lean back, its gonna cause the skin on your lower back to be a little loose. It has too, its the way skin works. Just like BB when they bend over the skin on there abs gets loose. Its just the way it is.
Ronnie when he hits it, hes hunched forward and it causes the skin to be tight on his lower back. Dorian actually leans BACKWARDS after he hits the pose, ever single time. He pullse his arms back, grabs his waist, spreads his lats, and then leans back on his legs. Just watch the vids and youll instantly see what im talking about. I figured everyone with eyes could see that. ::)
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none of those shots beat that shot of Ronnie...Ronnie best back lat spread of all time...
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none of those shots beat that shot of Ronnie...Ronnie best back lat spread of all time...
from the waist up? ;D
Ronnie needs more to compare to Dorian from head to toe
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none of those shots beat that shot of Ronnie...Ronnie best back lat spread of all time...
Dorians back is thicker, more complete, and im pretty sure wider than Ronnies, drier, just frankly better EVERYWHERE. The only back pose that could be debated is the RDB, simply because Ronnie has such amazing arms, however Dorians back is still thicker, harder, and denser than Ronnies. Ronnie does have those crazy deep separations tho.
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from the waist up? ;D
Ronnie needs more to compare to Dorian from head to toe
Ronnies calves look way better from the back than from the front...obviously nowhere near Dorian but Ronnie more than made up for it in his conditioning throughout the lower back, glutes and hams. Dorian was great, but his back lat just wasnt as good as Ronnies due to conditioning, insertion and shape, and if there was a pic to compare against Ronnie it would be the one from the 93 O cause Dorians conditioning was insane that year. He got wider from the back as he kept winning but lost conditioning, and anyone who was not in top condition from the rear was blown away by Coleman.
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Dorians back is thicker, more complete, and im pretty sure wider than Ronnies, drier, just frankly better EVERYWHERE. The only back pose that could be debated is the RDB, simply because Ronnie has such amazing arms, however Dorians back is still thicker, harder, and denser than Ronnies. Ronnie does have those crazy deep separations tho.
I'm sorry but Ronnie doesn't beat this pose either no way , not in separation not in thickness , density , detail , dryness , balance , proportion , completeness NO WHERE except symmetry ( small waist & hips and joints ) and biceps
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Ronnies calves look way better from the back than from the front...obviously nowhere near Dorian but Ronnie more than made up for it in his conditioning throughout the lower back, glutes and hams. Dorian was great, but his back lat just wasnt as good as Ronnies due to conditioning, insertion and shape, and if there was a pic to compare against Ronnie it would be the one from the 93 O cause Dorians conditioning was insane that year. He got wider from the back as he kept winning but lost conditioning, and anyone who was not in top condition from the rear was blown away by Coleman.
The pic I posted of Ronnie in the rear lat spread was from 2000 his conditioning sucked that year ??? and Dorian's conditioning is eons better , I understand that you feel Ronnie is better due to shape and insertions ( that's a matter of preference ) but conditioning is one area Dorian isn't lagging behind especially compared to Ronnie in 00
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Ronnies calves look way better from the back than from the front...obviously nowhere near Dorian but Ronnie more than made up for it in his conditioning throughout the lower back, glutes and hams. Dorian was great, but his back lat just wasnt as good as Ronnies due to conditioning, insertion and shape, and if there was a pic to compare against Ronnie it would be the one from the 93 O cause Dorians conditioning was insane that year. He got wider from the back as he kept winning but lost conditioning, and anyone who was not in top condition from the rear was blown away by Coleman.
Wrong.
Dorians conditioning in 93 was amazing, 95 was even better. Shape you can have, but Ronnie is not as conditioned as Dorian. That is not subjective, it is fact. 98 was the closest he came.
Dorian in 93 was like 253 or 257, Ronnie in 98 was like 245 or something.
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The pic I posted of Ronnie in the rear lat spread was from 2000 his conditioning sucked that year ??? and Dorian's conditioning is eons better , I understand that you feel Ronnie is better due to shape and insertions ( that's a matter of preference ) but conditioning is one area Dorian isn't lagging behind especially compared to Ronnie in 00
agree to disagree. I just feel from the rear Colemans conditioning was just sick and Yates was as well but not like Ronnies.
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I'm sorry but Ronnie doesn't beat this pose either no way , not in separation not in thickness , density , detail , dryness , balance , proportion , completeness NO WHERE except symmetry ( small waist & hips and joints ) and biceps
Yeah ND but lets be honest Dorian never showed up like that on stage. Im just going by stage appearances. Once you get into shit like that, then a million "what ifs" and "well this coulda happened" or "he might have shown up like this" opens up. Dorian was never on stage like that, so I go with his actual stage appearances, cause those are a legitamate debate.
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Yeah ND but lets be honest Dorian never showed up like that on stage. Im just going by stage appearances. Once you get into shit like that, then a million "what ifs" and "well this coulda happened" or "he might have shown up like this" opens up. Dorian was never on stage like that, so I go with his actual stage appearances, cause those are a legitamate debate.
Dorian did show up like that on stage 1993/1995 albeit just a tad smaller.
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Dorian did show up like that on stage 1993/1995 albeit just a tad smaller.
If he was "a tad smaller' than he didn't show up like that :)
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If he was "a tad smaller' than he didn't show up like that :)
hence the word a tad smaller , he was 269lbs in that pic and 260lbs in 1995 with equal if not better conditioning which is I prefaced my statement by stating a tad smaller
it doesn't matter because that pic destroys anything Ronnie's presented pre/post contest any year
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(http://img62.echo.cx/img62/2788/okok7ic.jpg)
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(http://img62.echo.cx/img62/2788/okok7ic.jpg)
Whoever scales these must take into account Dorian does NOT and never will have a smaller & narrower waist than Ronnie , people always complains about Dorian's midsection being a negative yet in every fantasy comparison it's always much smaller than Ronnie's which shows how off the scale is
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Whoever scales these must take into account Dorian does NOT and never will have a smaller & narrower waist than Ronnie , people always complains about Dorian's midsection being a negative yet in every fantasy comparison it's always much smaller than Ronnie's which shows how off the scale is
Yeah its fucked. Dorian is shorter than Ronnie, isnt he? makes no sense. So if Dorian is slightly shorter and as a wider waist, that means in those comparisons Dorian would actually be even WIDER at the shoulders and lats.
And after seeing that pic of him standing onstage next to Ronnie in 96, I think we just dont get an accurate comparison of just how big and thick Dorian was, he was far wider and thicker than Ron in 96, and even though Ron changed a lot by 98, I still think Dorians frame just dwarfs Ronnies. Not to mention Dorian has near perfect structure. (Limb length and Torso Length, natural looking taper, etc ) (03 excempted)
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Yeah its fucked. Dorian is shorter than Ronnie, isnt he? makes no sense. So if Dorian is slightly shorter and as a wider waist, that means in those comparisons Dorian would actually be even WIDER at the shoulders and lats.
He's not really shorter an inch of so , but the point stands if his waist and hips were wider so would everything else , these guys think Dorian is Jay and Ronnie would dwarf him even at his biggest he would have a noticeable size difference but he wouldn't dwarf Yates
These guys like Ronnie's size and shape is big arms and narrow waist and can look past all his weaknesses , the judges wouldn't
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i just saw the Clash of the Titans. I liked it.
No! Terrible movie. 3 set pieces and and a crappy ending. All over in less than 85 mins. And the 3-D was so obviously post-production. It was my nephew's choice, and he even said 'we should have gone with Iron Man II.' Good kid. I'll get him up to speed on what 'art' is even if I have to drive 600 km to bail him out on a drunken night or create a gimmick to ward off you Getbig thong lovers. ;D
/and can we get sam worthington some acting lessons beyond the charlton heston cheek tightening stuff?
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why the fuck did dorian ever even go into contest mode. he always looked so much more hard, dense, and huge, offseason.
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Not even his best, but literally no missing bodyparts.
Yes he could beat THAT with his 93, 95 and 96 Conditioning, i feel your case would be strengthen more with a 1998 MR O Ronnie than that Version of Ron, his Conditioning was off the charts @ the 98 Show.. Gyno withstanding.
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I can find 10 ;)
think again: ronnie 99 beats them all:
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think again: ronnie 99 beats them all:
Nah he's missing to many things , calves , density , dryness
see what Arnold has to say about this pose and he's right it ruins the whole effect compared to Dorian
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dorian is missing arms, glutes, hams and lower back thickness and you think his back double bi is better.. ::)
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dorian is missing arms, glutes, hams and lower back thickness and you think his back double bi is better.. ::)
those pictures don't count
the judges don't care about arms glutes hams or lower back, just calves
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dorian is missing arms, glutes, hams and lower back thickness and you think his back double bi is better.. ::)
He's missing arms? really? bullshit if Dorian is missing arms Ronnie is missing legs. hams? you've still never once explained why Ronnie's arms supposedly better EVER not once and you can't either , go look up the muscles of the leg biceps and tell me what's missing on Dorians dumbass , and lower back thickness? Oh Boy another gem by you , Dorian's spinal erctors are thicker hence why his x-mass tree is eons better than Ronnie's go look up that muscle as well and glutes? what the fuck is that supposed to mean? his ass isn't big enough for you homo? if you're talking striations Dorian has em
Ronnie is missing Dorian's size , density , dryness , balance & proportion and completeness hey wait that's all of the criteria ;)
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those pictures don't count
the judges don't care about arms glutes hams or lower back, just calves
hahaa so true.
isn't it funny how stupid the nuthuggers are? its pathetic.
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you've still never once explained why Ronnie's arms supposedly better EVER not once and you can't either
this is beyond stupid.
if ND is too stupid to understand why ronnie has better arms than dorian, there is no point in continuing the debate. we are debating with someone who literally knows NOTHING about the sport.
unreal.
::)
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those pictures don't count
the judges don't care about arms glutes hams or lower back, just calves
yeah Dorian has NO arms ::)
glutes see attached pic I know you like your men with lines in their ass
and hams and lower back? next
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this is beyond stupid.
if ND is too stupid to understand why ronnie has better arms than dorian, there is no point in continuing the debate. we are debating with someone who literally knows NOTHING about the sport.
unreal.
::)
hams it was a typo , we all know why you feel his arms were the best , so don't get excited fanboy
hams LEG BICEPS why are they better? elaborate , explained why development he has over Dorian and good luck dummy
look at these hams and explained how Ronnie's are better and don't use bullshit terms like ' quality '
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Arnold says if nothing happen when you flexed your calves in the rear latspread , as good as your traps , back and arms are the whole effect would be ruined , and it's true especially compared to Yates who has everything from top to bottom ;D
the funny thing is they ask for one calf back flexed and I'm always waiting for Ronnie to do his but nothing happens :-\
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Yippeeeee Ronnie has bigger biceps & triceps , yet his side triceps poses pales in comparison , stop trying to collect parts it's the whole that wins contests , remember dummy I though YOU all rounds are physique rounds , so when the judges look at Ronnie's awesome arms they're also looking at his pathetic calves 24" arms and 17" calves , great muscular balance right there baby
and recall fan-boy calves can be seen in the side-triceps pose and in the overall scheme of things are just as important as Ronnie's fantastic biceps ;) this is how it works it's the complete package that wins poses and contests
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at his best (1999 of course) ronnie had incredible triceps:
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dorian is missing arms, glutes, hams and lower back thickness and you think his back double bi is better.. ::)
Thickness? You fucking idiot. Ronnie has never been thicker than Dorian, especially not in the lower back, and glutes werent even a judged bodypart until Ronnie hiked his trunks up into his ass one show (which is against rules im pretty sure). I still dont know if glutes are even judged.
Yeah, Ronnie has better arms, Ronnie has arguably the best arms of all time. Dorians are fine for his frame at his best.
Ronnies midsection is fucked up and always has been, his Ab-thigh is TERRIBLE, his side tri is underwhelming at best, his FBD is great, his FLS is good, and his side chest is FUCKED UP because he doesnt know how to pose and his bodyparts all overwhelm each other (Side chest is where his balance issues are at there worst IMHO), MM is outstanding (best ever IMHO) and his RDB and RLS are both Great.
Dorians FDB is average. His side tri is great. His FLS is the best of all time. his side chest is great, and he actually knows how to hit it. RLS is wider, thicker, and harder than ronnies. RDB is also harder and thicker than Ronnies, but Id probably give Ron the RDB.
Dorian owns the quarter turns hands down, people have commented on how amazing he looks in the relaxed poses.
Quater Turns - Dorian hands down.
FBD - Ronnie
FLS - Dorian
Side Tri - Dorian
Side Chest - Dorian
Most Muscular - Ronnie
RDB - Ronnie
RLS - Dorian
Dorian wins 5 out of those 8 poses. So itd be close but Dorian would squeek it out IMHO. And that is being VERY unbiased on my part.
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at his best (1999 of course) ronnie had incredible triceps:
Fucking knock this shit off! Your blind hero worship is fucking annoying! Yes, Ronnie is the GOAT for the fact that he won the most O's hands down, no one is gonna take that away from him, but the man was not perfect! Jesus fucking Christ. You probably think he walks on water and is the son of god too, dont you?
No matter what you try and say Ronnies Triceps pose was terrible and his tricep looked underwhelming from the side. They look amazing from the front. Get Ronnies dick out of your mouth and realize your hero has fucking flaws like every other bodybuilder. People would take you more seriously if you said if you actually acknowledged his flaws and didnt try and convince everyone that he is the best at every pose and has the best of every bodypart . Fuck ::)
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Fucking knock this shit off!
I love it when I post cold hard real proof of how good ronnie was and how much better he was than dorian, and there is nothing you can do to refute it so you just freak out like a little child throwing a tantrum.
keep it up. its hilarious.
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I love it when I post cold hard real proof of how good ronnie was and how much better he was than dorian, and there is nothing you can do to refute it so you just freak out like a little child throwing a tantrum.
keep it up. its hilarious.
Haha epic way to try and spin what I said. I said fucking knock off trying to convince us Ronnie had the best of everything.
His triceps from the side were marginal AT BEST. they were and long, thin, and lacked any sort of thickness. Your picture shows that. Only a retard would try and argue otherwise. ::)
Thatd be like us arguing Dorians torn bicep looked great.
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Your blind hero worship is fucking annoying
..speaking of blindness...to say ronnie 99 didn't have incredible triceps is stupid. just look at the pics again. LOL
it really bothers you how good ronnie was in 99 doesn't it? you hate it when I post pics and vids from the show because you can't ignore them.
its great.
your triceps meltdown is never going to be forgotten.
this is for you oh Blind One:
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..speaking of blindness...to say ronnie 99 didn't have incredible triceps is stupid. just look at the pics again. LOL
it really bothers you how good ronnie was in 99 doesn't it? you hate it when I post pics and vids from the show because you can't ignore them.
its great.
your triceps meltdown is never going to be forgotten.
this is for you oh Blind One:
No it doesnt bother me, because that pic shows a long, narrow, elbeit striated tricep lacking any sort of thickness. Youre the one trying to convince the world how awesome Ronnie's tricep is. Im pretty sure no one else has EVER commented on Ronnies tricep being outstanding but you. Every time you post that picture shows everyone but your blind ass exactly what I said. Thin, narrow, lacking thickness, however it is striated.
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Quater Turns - Dorian hands down.
FBD - Ronnie
FLS - Dorian
Side Tri - Dorian
Side Chest - Dorian
Most Muscular - Ronnie
RDB - Ronnie
RLS - Dorian
Yep - would agree with this assessment. If I was being even more unbiased I would maybe give Ronnie the side-chest too but pre-bicep tear I would give Dorian the front and rear double bicep.
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at his best (1999 of course) ronnie had incredible triceps:
what a dumbass 99 is not his best even he admits this and his side triceps pose SUCKS and Flex owns him in triceps
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(http://i35.tinypic.com/1z2fxq9.jpg)(http://i37.tinypic.com/1zgwzua.jpg)(http://i35.tinypic.com/156zcih.jpg)(http://i33.tinypic.com/23vg7cy.jpg)(http://i37.tinypic.com/14wwy2q.jpg)(http://i36.tinypic.com/10sgpqf.jpg)(http://i36.tinypic.com/vwwsna.jpg)(http://i37.tinypic.com/2vx3zbr.jpg)(http://i38.tinypic.com/11jsv3o.jpg)(http://i36.tinypic.com/amw2af.jpg)(http://i37.tinypic.com/288a646.jpg)
no dorian couldn't beat this
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..speaking of blindness...to say ronnie 99 didn't have incredible triceps is stupid. just look at the pics again. LOL
it really bothers you how good ronnie was in 99 doesn't it? you hate it when I post pics and vids from the show because you can't ignore them.
its great.
your triceps meltdown is never going to be forgotten.
this is for you oh Blind One:
Ronnie is the one to the left, u know. ::) At his best Ronnie had so-so/average at best triceps. Later on he had non-existant triceps.
Flex had incredible triceps.
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Haha epic way to try and spin what I said. I said fucking knock off trying to convince us Ronnie had the best of everything.
His triceps from the side were marginal AT BEST. they were and long, thin, and lacked any sort of thickness. Your picture shows that. Only a retard would try and argue otherwise. ::)
Thatd be like us arguing Dorians torn bicep looked great.
That's Hulkster he knows he has nothing to work with so he tries to spin your statement and always ends up looking the the moron he is
he can't even get Ronnie's best year right ;D
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no dorian couldn't beat this
Dorian is making Ronnie look soft & bloated in those pics even though they're not scaled correctly he's still harder , drier and more detailed oh and better balanced
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Dorian is making Ronnie look soft & bloated in those pics even though they're not scaled correctly he's still harder , drier and more detailed oh and better balanced
used to those pictures didn't count
now magically, they do count! because you're lying to yourself saying they show dorian being better
why change sides?
didn't you also say dorian was bigger?
you're fickle and in a pickle
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(http://members.iinet.net.au/~saudukar/news/upload/Chuck1.jpg)
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(http://members.iinet.net.au/~saudukar/news/upload/Chuck1.jpg)
thats not cswol
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thats not cswol
hahaha but
;D
(http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/realadam/Spandex.png)
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used to those pictures didn't count
now magically, they do count! because you're lying to yourself saying they show dorian being better
why change sides?
didn't you also say dorian was bigger?
you're fickle and in a pickle
What's funny is I never said they don't count , that's your mantra , I said they're not an accurate representation of reality , it's obvious Dorian is clearly the harder & drier of the two , as well as more detailed and better balanced the thing that isn't accurate is the scale
and I would never said Dorian is bigger than Ronnie 03 , I said he has a wider waist which these laughable comparisons obviously don't show , he has bigger hips and joints , and even Ronnie 03 isn't going to have calves that make Dorians look small , sorry that comparison was made by a very obvious Ronnie fan-boy who thinks 03 is his best and he would make Dorian look petite not going to happen
the only area in that comparison that Ronnie is winning is size and that's not even accurate
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Not even his best, but literally no missing bodyparts.
i guess calves are not considered a "bodypart" then..
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(http://i35.tinypic.com/1z2fxq9.jpg)(http://i37.tinypic.com/1zgwzua.jpg)(http://i35.tinypic.com/156zcih.jpg)(http://i33.tinypic.com/23vg7cy.jpg)(http://i37.tinypic.com/14wwy2q.jpg)(http://i36.tinypic.com/10sgpqf.jpg)(http://i36.tinypic.com/vwwsna.jpg)(http://i37.tinypic.com/2vx3zbr.jpg)(http://i38.tinypic.com/11jsv3o.jpg)(http://i36.tinypic.com/amw2af.jpg)(http://i37.tinypic.com/288a646.jpg)
no dorian couldn't beat this
Lol. The fact that Dorian is smashing Ronnie in all these comparisons go as far as conditioning, dryness, balance, notwithstanding, are you just to retarded to notice how Ronnies calves are the same size OR bigger than Dorians in EVERY picture? Yup, real good comparisons there. hahahahahahaha
Bwahahahahahahaha at thinking those are even any sort of correct.
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Here's an anatomy lesson for the mentally challenged ( Hulkster ) who claim without merit somehow Ronnie's hamstrings are better than Dorians , the retarded statement never comes with an explanation just a base claim and nothing more
Here is a pic of Dorian's amazing hamstrings , tell me where Ronnie's are better , what development or separation he has that Dorian somehow doesn't
you can see how thick Dorian's bicep femoris is and how clearly defined and separated it is from the semimembranosus and how that's separated from the semitendinosus anyone who doesn't think Dorian has kickass hams and some how Ronnie's are better needs to learn anatomy
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Here's an anatomy lesson for the mentally challenged ( Hulkster ) who claim without merit somehow Ronnie's hamstrings are better than Dorians , the retarded statement never comes with an explanation just a base claim and nothing more
Here is a pic of Dorian's amazing hamstrings , tell me where Ronnie's are better , what development or separation he has that Dorian somehow doesn't
you can see how thick Dorian's bicep femoris is and how clearly defined and separated it is from the semimembranosus and how that's separated from the semitendinosus anyone who doesn't think Dorian has kickass hams and some how Ronnie's are better needs to learn anatomy
Good post - Hulkster's man-love for Ronnie getting destroyed one bodypart at a time! :D
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"Ronnie said it himself... Dorian has the best back of all time" ::) Apparently ND has no concept of humbleness.
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"Ronnie said it himself... Dorian has the best back of all time" ::) Apparently ND has no concept of humbleness.
And you have NO concept of paying attention either , I never said Ronnie said Dorian had the best back of all-time , what I did say is , Ronnie said Dorian had the thickest & freakiest back he ever seen
and you have no concept that maybe Ronnie was being honest , whenever Ronnie is paying Dorian a compliment he's being humble whenever he tells Jay he needs to be reborn with better genetics in order to beat him he's being honest ::)
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Good post - Hulkster's man-love for Ronnie getting destroyed one bodypart at a time! :D
These people just make up shit off the cuff ( and pray no one calls em on it ) and try and reduce Yates to a back and calves and if that were the case then many , many people would have easily beaten him , and they couldn't
like Dorian has shit arms because one bicep is shorter than the other , lumping in triceps and forearms in with biceps , like I always throw in their faces if Dorian has shit arms because of his biceps then Ronnie has shit legs because of his calves.
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What's funny is I never said they don't count , that's your mantra , I said they're not an accurate representation of reality , it's obvious Dorian is clearly the harder & drier of the two , as well as more detailed and better balanced the thing that isn't accurate is the scale
and I would never said Dorian is bigger than Ronnie 03 , I said he has a wider waist which these laughable comparisons obviously don't show , he has bigger hips and joints , and even Ronnie 03 isn't going to have calves that make Dorians look small , sorry that comparison was made by a very obvious Ronnie fan-boy who thinks 03 is his best and he would make Dorian look petite not going to happen
the only area in that comparison that Ronnie is winning is size and that's not even accurate
way to talk circles "I never said" is way too over used
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Ronnie was better
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In the above pics posted by Nirvana, Dorian > Ronnie.
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In the above pics posted by Nirvana, Dorian > Ronnie.
No, the pics are "proof" ::) lol
He doesnt understand that people look at those pics and see dorian winning. To him thats "proof" of Ronnie winning.
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Ronnie was better
Ronnie was never better , I hope this helps ;)
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Dorian did beat that, routinely.
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Dorian did beat that, routinely.
8 times ;D with ease , even at his worse :o
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used to, those pics "weren't an accurate representation" and "you had to see dorian in real life"
now all of a sudden they say "dorian is better in those pics"
somewhere along the lines you guys have told a lie
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used to, those pics "weren't an accurate representation" and "you had to see dorian in real life"
now all of a sudden they say "dorian is better in those pics"
somewhere along the lines you guys have told a lie
It's always been that way , especially in the conditioning & balance department. The scale is very optimistic in Ronnie's favor but the difference is night & day in terms whose in razor sharp shape
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It's always been that way , especially in the conditioning & balance department. The scale is very optimistic in Ronnie's favor but the difference is night & day in terms whose in razor sharp shape
oh no, ronnie is more balanced and conditioned, those pictures don't count you have to see ronnie in real life
::)
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Dorian Yates interview bodybuilding.com 2008
Everyone who sees my physique in person always comments on how much better I look in person than in pictures. That's because my physique is thick and developed from all angles. From the front, from the back, from the side, standing on my head: it doesn't matter. Everywhere is fully developed from every angle. And this might not show in one-dimensional photos. When you turn somebody to the side and they are twice as thick as everyone else, then that shows up.
Peter McGough on Dorian Yates
On the subject of conditioning, no-one did it better than Dorian. He achieved a hardness and dryness (without losing fullness) that nobody has ever matched. In the flesh he looked even harder than he did in photos. It was like a statue made of granite was standing in front of you.
Flex magazine Jan 1992 on Dorian Yates
" Dorian has the type of physique that looks much better and more powerfull in person than photos. I personally saw him onstage , and Yates if definitely light years ahead of the way he looks in photos.
MuscleMag International Feb 1994 on Dorian Yates at the 1993 Mr Olympia
" He's huge , absolutely HUGE ...he's ripped completely RIPPED. And while he's not in possession of the prettiest physique body by a long shot , he's equipped with all the bodyparts you need to win .
Combine this with the fact that he's 10 TIMES more impressive when you see him onstage at the Olympia than he is in pictures or on videos and you got yourself a winner.
This is a quote from John Hotten book " Muscle "
" Chris Cormier standing next to Dorian onstage he sensed ' radiation coming off him , like an aura. ' The power of that muscle was tangible. It exerted a force all of its own. Cormier thought ' I might as well forget about this guy and concentrate on being second. ' There was something else , too , strange. You had to witness him in the flesh. such granite hradness had a property that could nor be held on film or caught on paper. You had to see it live.
Peter McGough Flex Magazine May 2002
Let it be said that the camera can lie at physique contests. Some guys look great onstage but not so great on final film (Dorian Yates, for one) and vice versa (Shawn Ray is an example)
do you think these guys are making this up? why does it bother you so much he might appear better live and in person as opposed to pictures and videos?
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ronnie was better
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oh no, ronnie is more balanced and conditioned, those pictures don't count you have to see ronnie in real life
::)
Yup and Dorian was just a back and a pair of calves ::) yet dominated the entire sport in a manor Ronnie couldn't replicate
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ronnie was better at getting beaten by Dorian, than Dorian was at getting beaten by Ronnie
Fixed
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Yup and Dorian was just a back and a pair of calves ::) yet dominated the entire sport in a manor Ronnie couldn't replicate
such as 8 mr o's?
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Fixed
what a stupid argument. That's like saying because I got beat up by a 10 year old many times when i was little, that I can still get beat up by 10 year olds.
Ronnie progressed
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such as 8 mr o's?
What does winning 8 titles against mediocre competition have to do with dominating the sport? do you even know what domination means? Ronnie in his first Olympia win ( admittedly his best appearance ) only won by just 3 points , hardly a dominating win , he lost the entire prejudging to Jay in 01 and just barely beat him , lost both the posing rounds to Levrone in 02 he really dominated in 03 , 04 was another very close contest
Ronnie's competition wasn't at their peaks like when they faced Dorian , granted not his fault but they were still giving him trouble , Dorian beat guys much closer to their primes that Ronnie did
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used to, those pics "weren't an accurate representation" and "you had to see dorian in real life"
now all of a sudden they say "dorian is better in those pics"
somewhere along the lines you guys have told a lie
Hahaha youre a fucking idiot. Did you just miss all the posts where I called you a moron, and said when I look at those pics I see Dorian winning? Go through my post history, theres about 15 of them. ;)
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what a stupid argument. That's like saying because I got beat up by a 10 year old many times when i was little, that I can still get beat up by 10 year olds.
Ronnie progressed
Ronnie got bigger and more muscular, but looked like a water balloon next to Doz's granite hardness. Given how gay that sounds, I'll stop arguing there - to each his own.
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Nirvana comment on this post of ND's
Youre a complete and utter moron, ive said it before, ill say it again.
You post "proof" I say I see Dorian winning. All the sudden you say, you didnt say that before, which I clearly did. So either you just didnt pay attention, or youre truely mentally retarded.
IN ADDITION TO saying that its widely known that Dorian had something special when seen in person. as stated HERE.
Dorian Yates interview bodybuilding.com 2008
Everyone who sees my physique in person always comments on how much better I look in person than in pictures. That's because my physique is thick and developed from all angles. From the front, from the back, from the side, standing on my head: it doesn't matter. Everywhere is fully developed from every angle. And this might not show in one-dimensional photos. When you turn somebody to the side and they are twice as thick as everyone else, then that shows up.
Peter McGough on Dorian Yates
On the subject of conditioning, no-one did it better than Dorian. He achieved a hardness and dryness (without losing fullness) that nobody has ever matched. In the flesh he looked even harder than he did in photos. It was like a statue made of granite was standing in front of you.
Flex magazine Jan 1992 on Dorian Yates
" Dorian has the type of physique that looks much better and more powerfull in person than photos. I personally saw him onstage , and Yates if definitely light years ahead of the way he looks in photos.
MuscleMag International Feb 1994 on Dorian Yates at the 1993 Mr Olympia
" He's huge , absolutely HUGE ...he's ripped completely RIPPED. And while he's not in possession of the prettiest physique body by a long shot , he's equipped with all the bodyparts you need to win .
Combine this with the fact that he's 10 TIMES more impressive when you see him onstage at the Olympia than he is in pictures or on videos and you got yourself a winner.
This is a quote from John Hotten book " Muscle "
" Chris Cormier standing next to Dorian onstage he sensed ' radiation coming off him , like an aura. ' The power of that muscle was tangible. It exerted a force all of its own. Cormier thought ' I might as well forget about this guy and concentrate on being second. ' There was something else , too , strange. You had to witness him in the flesh. such granite hradness had a property that could nor be held on film or caught on paper. You had to see it live.
Peter McGough Flex Magazine May 2002
Let it be said that the camera can lie at physique contests. Some guys look great onstage but not so great on final film (Dorian Yates, for one) and vice versa (Shawn Ray is an example)
do you think these guys are making this up? why does it bother you so much he might appear better live and in person as opposed to pictures and videos?
::) Get fucked.
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what a stupid argument. That's like saying because I got beat up by a 10 year old many times when i was little, that I can still get beat up by 10 year olds.
Ronnie progressed
Ronnie wasn't 10 when he was competing with Yates , Ronnie progressed in what area the most? his conditioning and size at the expense of that conditioning in later years
Ronnie 1998 was 249lbs and in what he said was his best Olympia showing and he looked outstanding , he was 255 in 1997 with so-so conditioning. He just barely beat Flex in one of the closest Mr Olympia contests ever even to this day ( 3 points ) if a less than perfect Flex gave him a handful of trouble , what do you think Dorian 1993/1995 would do? Flex's best year was 1993 and Dorian utterly crushed him and Ronnie hand his hands full with a Flex that wasn't as sharp as 93 , Dorian 1993/1995 wouldn't have much problem beating Ronnie 98
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Fixed
hahahahaha great post because it's true.
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Ronnie wasn't 10 when he was competing with Yates , Ronnie progressed in what area the most? his conditioning and size at the expense of that conditioning in later years
Ronnie 1998 was 249lbs and in what he said was his best Olympia showing and he looked outstanding , he was 255 in 1995 with so-so conditioning. He just barely beat Flex in one of the closest Mr Olympia contests ever even to this day ( 3 points ) if a less than perfect Flex gave him a handful of trouble , what do you think Dorian 1993/1995 would do? Flex's best year was 1993 and Dorian utterly crushed him and Ronnie hand his hands full with a Flex that wasn't as sharp as 93 , Dorian 1993/1995 wouldn't have much problem beating Ronnie 98
I stopped reading there. To me, Ronnie had more of a "wow" factor than Dorian, and i think there are more "wow" pictures of Ronnie than there are of Dorian. The best pictures of Dorian was 2 weeks before he failed to show up in his best shape at a contest? I dont care about points or other people that competed at the time or what certain articles claim. To me, Ronnie was bigger, stronger, and didn't have to work half as hard as Dorian and got more mr. olympias being a lot stupider than Dorian
So Ronnie comes out on top.
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Ronnie got bigger and more muscular, but looked like a water balloon next to Doz's granite hardness. Given how gay that sounds, I'll stop arguing there - to each his own.
That's a great point ' to each his own ' and a lot of people simply like the way Ronnie looks compared to Dorian , he's huge has great shape , small waist & hips , huge arms he appeals to a lot of people , however when he start to break down how contests are judged and who has advantages over the other we see Dorian satisfies the criteria better
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That's a great point ' to each his own ' and a lot of people simply like the way Ronnie looks compared to Dorian , he's huge has great shape , small waist & hips , huge arms he appeals to a lot of people , however when he start to break down how contests are judged and who has advantages over the other we see Dorian satisfies the criteria better
Absolutely. Ronnie's size and shape made him look freaky in a lot of poses, which makes most people overlook his flaws. Dorian was more complete and balanced, the torn arm not withstanding. At his best, Dorian had no weak points, while being well above everyone else with his dryness and conditioning. Ronnie was always missing calves and sporting a bad midsection, while having enough muscularity to dominate, with his conditioning being hit or miss / inconsistent.
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I stopped reading there. To me, Ronnie had more of a "wow" factor than Dorian, and i think there are more "wow" pictures of Ronnie than there are of Dorian. The best pictures of Dorian was 2 weeks before he failed to show up in his best shape at a contest? I dont care about points or other people that competed at the time or what certain articles claim. To me, Ronnie was bigger, stronger, and didn't have to work half as hard as Dorian and got more mr. olympias being a lot stupider than Dorian
So Ronnie comes out on top.
Or course you stopped reading there because your mind is already made up. you are exactly the guy I'm talking about in the above post. I'm glad you mentioned him being strong to that also appeals more people to Ronnie which means nothing because weights are simple a means to an end but people are fascinated with numbers " Ronnie can squat this and no one else can ever " impressive none the less it adds to his mystic but doesn't mean much in the context of who is a better bodybuilder
funny thing about Coleman fans NO ONE was cheering for him until he won , then everyone jumped on the bandwagon lol
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Or course you stopped reading there because your mind is already made up. you are exactly the guy I'm talking about in the above post. I'm glad you mentioned him being strong to that also appeals more people to Ronnie which means nothing because weights are simple a means to an end but people are fascinated with numbers " Ronnie can squat this and no one else can ever " impressive none the less it adds to his mystic but doesn't mean much in the context of who is a better bodybuilder
funny thing about Coleman fans NO ONE was cheering for him until he won , then everyone jumped on the bandwagon lol
yes my mind is made up, just like yours is. I don't see the point of you arguing over and over about how "complete" dorian was or how paper thin his skin was. Who cares? I said that Ronnie was better, I'm not going to post hundreds of pictures or god forbid dig into the archives of muscle magazines for sentences. I dont care about it that much. I like Ronnie better. The whole breakdown of criteria that a judge should consider when examining a mans body that you do is just silly and partially gay to me.
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Ronnie got bigger and more muscular, but looked like a water balloon next to Doz's granite hardness. Given how gay that sounds, I'll stop arguing there - to each his own.
water balloon?
think again:
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water balloon?
think again:
Yup Water balloon. Hahahahahaha.
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water balloon?
think again:
All BS aside, I'm as big a fan of Ronnie as I'm of Dorian, Hulkster. But even at his driest, most conditioned look (the 98 Olympia), Ronnie never looked anywhere near as dry as Dorian did, which the latter did at just about every single contest he competed in.
Even in the 97 Olympia, Dorian looked like he was carved out of granite while weighing 270 lb, while Ronnie looked like a balloon filled with water in the 2003 and 2004 Olympia. You will most likely disagree, but that's how I see it.
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All BS aside, I'm as big a fan of Ronnie as I'm of Dorian, Hulkster. But even at his driest, most conditioned look (the 98 Olympia), Ronnie never looked anywhere near as dry as Dorian did, which the latter did at just about every single contest he competed in.
Even in the 97 Olympia, Dorian looked like he was carved out of granite, while Ronnie looked like a balloon filled with water in the 2003 and 2004 Olympia. You will most likely disagree, but that's how I see it.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Full agreement. Hulkster mistakes separations and striations for dryness. ::)
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if a less than perfect Flex gave him a handful of trouble , what do you think Dorian 1993/1995 would do?
nothing.
because the 98 olympia was close on paper only because of the political momentum flex had going in. not because of how he compared to ronnie physique wise.
onstage it was not close at all.
but the scorecards in the first two rounds (mainly round 1) where ronnie was overlooked intially skewed the overall score.
luckily, the judges realized how good ronnie was early and the rest is history.
but if anyone is stupid enough to think that THIS was close in term of physiques (not scores), well, they know nothing about this sport. period:
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^
anyone other and Flowerboy and Cockwave think that the 1998 olympia was super close in terms of flex vs ronnie?
not bloody likely. ronnie is far far far ahead of the soft and puffy Flex.
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Or course you stopped reading there because your mind is already made up. you are exactly the guy I'm talking about in the above post. I'm glad you mentioned him being strong to that also appeals more people to Ronnie which means nothing because weights are simple a means to an end but people are fascinated with numbers " Ronnie can squat this and no one else can ever " impressive none the less it adds to his mystic but doesn't mean much in the context of who is a better bodybuilder
funny thing about Coleman fans NO ONE was cheering for him until he won , then everyone jumped on the bandwagon lol
LOL.....like yours isn't ??
it's all opinion folks, no one more "right" than the other
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because the 98 olympia was close on paper only because of the political momentum flex had going in. not because of how he compared to ronnie physique wise.
Where the fuck do you come up with this shit?
I think there is actually a mental condition about this, where people just dream up shit and try and pass it off as reality. lol.
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All BS aside, I'm as big a fan of Ronnie as I'm of Dorian, Hulkster. But even at his driest, most conditioned look (the 98 Olympia), Ronnie never looked anywhere near as dry as Dorian did, which the latter did at just about every single contest he competed in.
Even in the 97 Olympia, Dorian looked like he was carved out of granite while weighing 270 lb, while Ronnie looked like a balloon filled with water in the 2003 and 2004 Olympia. You will most likely disagree, but that's how I see it.
LOL oh were to begin with this one?
carved from granite? LMAO!
you really need to have a close look at how well conditioned ronnie was at his best.
you must have been reading ND's bullshit for so long you are starting to believe it LOL
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yes my mind is made up, just like yours is. I don't see the point of you arguing over and over about how "complete" dorian was or how paper thin his skin was. Who cares? I said that Ronnie was better, I'm not going to post hundreds of pictures or god forbid dig into the archives of muscle magazines for sentences. I dont care about it that much. I like Ronnie better. The whole breakdown of criteria that a judge should consider when examining a mans body that you do is just silly and partially gay to me.
The difference is my point wasn't already predetermined and it's based on a set of criterion not on what appeals to me visually. and it's gay to you to consider what they judge contests by? LMAO
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LOL.....like yours isn't ??
it's all opinion folks, no one more "right" than the other
Mines in made up but it ain't because I like they way he looks better or because he's stronger ;D
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you really need to have a close look at how well conditioned ronnie was at his best.
I don't think I could ever look at Ronnie as "closely" as you do ;D
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Where the fuck do you come up with this shit?
I think there is actually a mental condition about this, where people just dream up shit and try and pass it off as reality. lol.
LOL so you think ronnie and flex were really really close in terms of physiques in 98?
LOL oh yeah, you probably would. you're dumb enough to think dorian was better so you are probably dumb enough to think Flex and Ronnie were really close in 98:
LMAO: you think this is truly only a 3 point difference? bwahahahaaha ::)
its truly amazing how clueless some fans of this sport are. they think every score the judges have given is always 100% accurate LOL ::)
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LOL oh were to begin with this one?
carved from granite? LMAO!
you really need to have a close look at how well conditioned ronnie was at his best.
you must have been reading ND's bullshit for so long you are starting to believe it LOL
Hahahaha!!!!!! Owned. Contrary to what you believe Hulkster, there is a lot of people out there who understand that Ronnie was just never as dry or as hard as Dorian. FACT. No matter how hard you try and spin it. All your "visual proof" does is show us how right we are. BWAHAHAHAHAHA. Have fun with your hero's water balloon musculature!
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water balloon?
think again:
We can always count on you to be a loser , a crystal clear screencap of Ronnie and a shitty youtube sceengrab of Dorian and you think you accomplished anything by posting this? other than showing you rely on such weak strawmen?
99 is shit compared to 98 and 01 and both pale in comparison to Dorian ;)
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The difference is my point wasn't already predetermined and it's based on a set of criterion not on what appeals to me visually. and it's gay to you to consider what they judge contests by? LMAO
you're criterion is following other peoples guidelines in what to look for a contest. I go by what i personally think is more impressive.
it's gay to spend so much time of your life discussing each and every minor detail of dorian's body.
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LOL so you think ronnie and flex were really really close in terms of physiques in 98?
LOL oh yeah, you probably would. you're dumb enough to think dorian was better so you are probably dumb enough to think Flex and Ronnie were really close in 98:
LMAO: you think this is truly only a 3 point difference? bwahahahaaha ::)
Yup I truely do. Youre trying to match Ronnies strengths up against Flex, thats not how it worked. Flex had a REAL aesthetic physique, and its a totally different kind than Ronnies, and thats why it was close.
You try and judge all the competitors with Ronnie being the standard to measure up to, and thats not how it works you moron. ::)
Flex's physique is a totally different animal, he didnt need to have Ronnies width or Ronnies arms to win, he did it with shape, flow, detail, etc. Yes I truely believe its only a 3 point difference, and so does everyone but you. Because guess what, you dont know shit about Bodybuilding. All you know is Ronnie-building. And until you come to grips with that, all youll ever be is a know nothing fanboy. ::)
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Absolutely. Ronnie's size and shape made him look freaky in a lot of poses, which makes most people overlook his flaws. Dorian was more complete and balanced, the torn arm not withstanding. At his best, Dorian had no weak points, while being well above everyone else with his dryness and conditioning. Ronnie was always missing calves and sporting a bad midsection, while having enough muscularity to dominate, with his conditioning being hit or miss / inconsistent.
I'm glad you brought this up , because it's the exact same thing that happened to me in 93 when Flex beat Dorian , I was dumbfounded no way Dorian should have beat Flex , Flex with his shape and cartoon proportions and amazing aesthetics I bitched & moaned about how the fix was on and I was amazed with Flex he looked like a much improved version of Haney to me , and then I learned how contests were judged , I learned more about the sport and then I cam to the conclusion of just how far Dorian really was and how wrong I was
these guys are in the same boat I was 17 years ago ;D I'm trying to teach them they just don't like the messenger
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The best part Hulkster, is since you dont know shit and you cant back up anything you say, your answer to everything is "politics" lol.
BTW, where are all those quotes you used to tell us existed, you know, that werent actually in the magazines you claimed?
You have a mental condition Hulkster. You make shit up in your head and try to pass it off as reality. I dont know the name of it but I know its a legitimate condition. You might want to seek help for that. Im pretty sure they have a pill. ;D
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nothing.
because the 98 olympia was close on paper only because of the political momentum flex had going in. not because of how he compared to ronnie physique wise.
onstage it was not close at all.
but the scorecards in the first two rounds (mainly round 1) where ronnie was overlooked intially skewed the overall score.
luckily, the judges realized how good ronnie was early and the rest is history.
but if anyone is stupid enough to think that THIS was close in term of physiques (not scores), well, they know nothing about this sport. period:
the old excuse , 98 wasn't close LMFAO like I said you always contradict reality , just like 2001 Ronnie dominated by losing the entire prejudging and 99 is his best , you have your stories I have the facts , keep making excuses you're good at that.
1998 is still one of the closest Mr Olympia contest in the history of the contest.
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^
anyone other and Flowerboy and Cockwave think that the 1998 olympia was super close in terms of flex vs ronnie?
not bloody likely. ronnie is far far far ahead of the soft and puffy Flex.
The old everyone agrees with me plea? who agrees with you? whoever does is wrong as well , go and collect an army of people who agree with you they'll all share in your stupidity.
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LOL oh were to begin with this one?
carved from granite? LMAO!
you really need to have a close look at how well conditioned ronnie was at his best.
you must have been reading ND's bullshit for so long you are starting to believe it LOL
more strawmen , 1997 his worse compared to Ronnie's best. you keep proving how scared you are of Dorian at his best ALL the time , and I don't blame you , there is a very good reason Ronnie admitted Dorian would continue to beat him
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you're criterion is following other peoples guidelines in what to look for a contest. I go by what i personally think is more impressive.
it's gay to spend so much time of your life discussing each and every minor detail of dorian's body.
oh so the Mr Olympia should be judged on what you think wins a contest lol or who can move more weight hahahahaha I'm glad you at the least can admit this instead of trying to bend the rules to fit what you like , like these guys
yes you got me there it's gay explaining how Dorian's physique meets the criteria better , you seem obsessed with gay stop projecting your hang-ups on me
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Yup I truely do. Youre trying to match Ronnies strengths up against Flex, thats not how it worked. Flex had a REAL aesthetic physique, and its a totally different kind than Ronnies, and thats why it was close.
You try and judge all the competitors with Ronnie being the standard to measure up to, and thats not how it works you moron. ::)
Flex's physique is a totally different animal, he didnt need to have Ronnies width or Ronnies arms to win, he did it with shape, flow, detail, etc. Yes I truely believe its only a 3 point difference, and so does everyone but you. Because guess what, you dont know shit about Bodybuilding. All you know is Ronnie-building. And until you come to grips with that, all youll ever be is a know nothing fanboy. ::)
Hulkster has theories just like the rest of the Ronnie fan-boys and they often contradict reality. Hulkster takes the cake though he's among the dumbest people on the internet , I mean he absolutely gets EVERYTHING wrong
the best is his pathetic stawmen where he posts crystal-clear sceencaps of Ronnie to compressed youtube screencaps of the lowest quailty of Dorian , or Dorian 97 hehehehehehehe his nutt-hugging and pathetic ploys are legendary as are his enhanced screencaps and morphed pics and made up quotes :-X
oh the best was his two independent sources that was supposed prove the guy who made his photoshopped screencaps for him was were the same videos and the two fucking sources were the exact same guy in question LMFAO he still hasn't recovered from that one. ;D
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oh so the Mr Olympia should be judged on what you think wins a contest lol or who can move more weight hahahahaha I'm glad you at the least can admit this instead of trying to bend the rules to fit what you like , like these guys
yes you got me there it's gay explaining how Dorian's physique meets the criteria better , you seem obsessed with gay stop projecting your hang-ups on me
What are you, 13? Im not saying what the Mr. Olympia should be judged on. I couldnt care less on what the mr. olympia is judged on. I dont think the weight that people move should be incorperated into the contest, thats just stupid, but to me in determining who is better, yes i do consider that, but thats me. For example I dont have much respect for Paul Dillet because of how lazy he was. I don't think you get it. Im saying that I think its stupid for you to invoke your idea of "criteria" in determining who people like better. It's not a math problem or some formula that everybody needs to understand. It's not that simple. It's just what each and every person thinks. I think that Ronnie is better.
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What are you, 13? Im not saying what the Mr. Olympia should be judged on. I couldnt care less on what the mr. olympia is judged on. I dont think the weight that people move should be incorperated into the contest, thats just stupid, but to me in determining who is better, yes i do consider that, but thats me. For example I dont have much respect for Paul Dillet because of how lazy he was. I don't think you get it. Im saying that I think its stupid for you to invoke your idea of "criteria" in determining who people like better. It's not a math problem or some formula that everybody needs to understand. It's not that simple. It's just what each and every person thinks. I think that Ronnie is better.
There is a criteria to determine who is better , you don't wanna follow that and based your opinions solely on preference and strength NO problem but I deal with reality
you sound like Victor Richards BTW
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The old everyone agrees with me plea? who agrees with you? whoever does is wrong as well , go and collect an army of people who agree with you they'll all share in your stupidity.
actually, the entire bb community agrees. and they are correct as the pics and vids overwhelmingly verify.
you idiots are the only two people on the planet that think that Ronnie and Flex were really close in 98.
and the only reason you do is so you can use the scorecard to suit your agenda.
fact is, the scorecard and onstage show two completely different things.
the score card (actually, the final score) shows a close contest between two competitors if you look at the numbers alone.
the onstage reality shows ronnie was far far ahead.
but like Flex said, he went into that contest 'with his name on the title' and that obviously influenced the judges scoring, at least in the first two rounds.
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There is a criteria to determine who is better , you don't wanna follow that and based your opinions solely on preference and strength NO problem but I deal with reality
you sound like Victor Richards BTW
This is your flaw. Your "reality" is just what has already been predetermined criteria in how to judge a contest. Your opinion just follows what other peoples opinion has already said before you ever came along. Your "formula" is just someone else's opinion. There is not a criteria, there are just peoples opinions. Just because you follow behind a large group doesn't mean you're correct. It's like determining if a girl is hot or not, it just depends on who is looking, there is no standard check off list to go down before making a decision to make sure your decision is the "right" one.
and just a fyi, if you dont think that contests are based on "preference" then you are more stupid than i thought
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This is your flaw. Your "reality" is just what has already been predetermined criteria in how to judge a contest. Your opinion just follows what other peoples opinion has already said before you ever came along. Your "formula" is just someone else's opinion. There is not a criteria, there are just peoples opinions. Just because you follow behind a large group doesn't mean you're correct. It's like determining if a girl is hot or not, it just depends on who is looking, there is no standard check off list to go down before making a decision to make sure your decision is the "right" one.
and just a fyi, if you dont think that contests are based on "preference" then you are more stupid than i thought
Good post, well spoken with sound logic.
ND can't comprehend things like that :)
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This is your flaw. Your "reality" is just what has already been predetermined criteria in how to judge a contest. Your opinion just follows what other peoples opinion has already said before you ever came along. Your "formula" is just someone else's opinion. There is not a criteria, there are just peoples opinions. Just because you follow behind a large group doesn't mean you're correct. It's like determining if a girl is hot or not, it just depends on who is looking, there is no standard check off list to go down before making a decision to make sure your decision is the "right" one.
and just a fyi, if you dont think that contests are based on "preference" then you are more stupid than i thought
It's not a flaw its the rule , it's how contests are judged period. and I'm going by the criteria set forth what else and what am I supposed to base who is the better bodybuilder on? who can bench & squat more? wonderful logic ::) there is no criteria just peoples opinions , yeah peoples opinions on who meets the criteria better than his contemporaries and when 13 different people all come to the same conclusion based off the criteria a winner is based off that , you don't like the criteria that's your problem but it's how contests are judged
and who said I follow a large group? it's the minority opinion Dorian is better and the minority judges contests , who is the large group? this isn't American Idol where the masses choose whose the best and contests are based on preferences , the judges prefer the athlete who satisfies the criteria better than his competition and seeing both the high & lows are toss out this all but eliminates a judge who is more biased towards a ' favorite ' athlete
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Good post, well spoken with sound logic.
ND can't comprehend things like that :)
sound logic? there is " NO criteria " that's sound logic you're just as dumb as he is if you buy into that.
there is a criteria and there is a way to objectively ascertain who satisfies it more than another person , it's how it goes if you agree or not it doesn't change facts.
When assessing a competitor’s physique, a judge should follow a
routine procedure which will allow a comprehensive assessment of
the physique as a whole. During the comparisons of the
compulsory poses, the judge should first look at the primary
muscle group being displayed. The judge should then survey the
whole physique, starting from the head, and looking at every part
of the physique in a downward sequence, beginning with general
impressions, and looking for muscular bulk, balanced
development, muscular density and definition. The downward
survey should take in the head, neck, shoulders, chest, all of the
arm muscles, front of the trunk for pectorals, pec-delt tie-in,
abdominals, waist, thighs, legs, calves and feet. The same
procedure for back poses will also take in the upper and lower
trapezius, teres and infraspinatus, erector spinae, the gluteus
group, the leg biceps group at the back of the thighs, calves, and
feet. A detailed assessment of the various muscle groups should
be made during the comparisons, at which time it helps the judge
to compare muscle shape, density, and definition while still
bearing in mind the competitor’s overall balanced development.
The comparisons of the compulsory poses cannot be overemphasized
as these comparisons will help the judge to decide
which competitor has the superior physique from the standpoint of
muscular bulk, balanced development, muscular density and
definition.
Front Double Biceps (see Figure 1)
Standing face front to the judges, with the legs and feet
in-line and a short distance apart, the competitor will raise
both arms to shoulder level and bend them at the elbows.
The hands should be clenched and turned down so as to
cause a contraction of the biceps and forearm muscles,
which are the main muscle groups that are to be assessed
in this pose. In addition, the competitor should attempt
to contract as many other muscles as possible as the
judges will be surveying the whole physique, from head to
toe.
The judge will first survey the biceps muscles looking for a
full, peaked development of the muscle, noting whether
or not there is a defined split between the anterior and
posterior sections of the biceps, and will continue the
head-to-toe survey by observing the development of the
forearms, deltoids, pectorals, pec-delt tie-ins, abdominals,
thighs, and calves. The judge will also look for muscle
density, definition, and overall balance.
Front Lat Spread (see Figure 2)
Standing face front to the judges, with the legs and feet a
short distance apart, the competitor will place the open
hands, or clenched fists, against, or gripping, the lower
waist or obliques and will expand the latissimus muscles.
At the same time, the competitor should attempt to
contract as many other frontal muscles as possible. It
shall be strictly forbidden for the competitor to pull up on
the posing trunks so as to show the top inside of the
quadriceps.
The judge should first see whether the competitor can
show a good spread of the latissimus muscles, thereby
creating a V-shaped torso. Then the judge should
continue with the head-to-foot survey, noting first the
general aspectsof the physique and then concentrating on
the more detailed aspects of the various muscle groups.
3. Side Chest (see Figure 3)
The competitor may choose either side for this pose, in
order to display the “better” arm. He will stand with his
left or right side towards the judges and will bend the arm
nearest the judges to a right-angle position, with the fist
clenched and, with the other hand, will grasp the wrist.
The leg nearest the judges will be bent at the knee and
will rest on the toes. The competitor will then expand the
chest and by upward pressure of the front bent arm and
contract the biceps as much as possible. He will also
contract the thigh muscles, in particular, the biceps
femoris group, and by downward pressure on his toes,
will display the contracted calf muscles.
The judge will pay particular attention to the pectoral
muscles and the arch of the rib cage, the biceps, the leg
biceps and the calves, and will conclude with the head-tofoot
examination. In this pose the judge will be able to
survey the thigh and calf muscles in profile, which will
help in grading their comparative development more
accurately.
Back Double Biceps (see Figure 4)
Standing with his back to the judges, the competitor will
bend the arms and wrists as in the Front Double Biceps
pose, and will place one foot back, resting on the toes.
He will then contract the arm muscles as well as the
muscles of the shoulders, upper and lower back, thigh
and calf muscles.
The judge will first survey the arm muscles and then do
the head-to-foot survey, during which there are more
muscle groups to look at than in all of the other poses.
This includes the neck, deltoids, biceps, triceps, forearm,
trapezius, teres, infraspinatus, erector spinae, external
obliques, latissimus dorsi, gluteus, thigh biceps, and
calves. This pose, probably more than the others, will
help the judge to determine the quality of the
competitor’s muscle density, definition, and overall
balance.
Back Lat Spread (see Figure 5)
Standing with his back to the judges, the competitor will
place his hands on his waist with his elbows kept wide,
one foot back and resting on the toes. He will then
contract the latissimus dorsi as wide as possible and
display a calf contraction by pressing downward on the
rear toes. The competitor should make an effort to
display the opposite calf to that which was displayed
during the back double biceps pose so the the judge may
assess both calf muscle equally. It shall be strictly
forbidden for the competitor to pull up on the posing
trunks so as to show the gluteus maximus muscles.
The judge will look for a good spread of the latissimus
dorsi, but also for good muscle density and will again
conclude with the head-to-foot survey.
6. Side Triceps (see Figure 6)
The competitor may choose either side for this pose so as
to show the “better” arm. He will stand with his left or
right side towards the judges and will place both arms
behind his back, either linking his fingers or grasping the
front arm by the wrist with his rear hand. The leg nearest
the judges will be bent at the knee and the foot will rest
flat on the floor. The competitor will exert pressure
against his front arm, thereby causing the triceps muscle
to contract. He will also raise the chest and contract the
abdominal muscles as well as the thigh and calf muscles.
The judge will first survey the triceps muscles, and
conclude with the head-to-foot examination. In this pose,
the judge will be able to survey the thigh and calf muscles
in profile, which will help in grading their comparative
development more accurately.
Abdominals and Thighs (see Figure 7)
Standing face front to the judges, the competitor will
place both arms behind the head and will place one leg
forward. He will then contract the abdominal muscles by
55
“crunching” the trunk slightly forward. At the same time,
he will contract the thigh muscles of the forward leg.
The judge will survey the abdominal and thigh muscles,
and then conclude with the head-to-foot examination.
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Hahaha owned.
competitor has the superior physique from the standpoint of
muscular bulk, balanced development, muscular density and
definition.
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Hahaha owned.
No , no the IFBB judging criteria doesn't apply to Ronnie , he's beyond that even though he served him very well for a long time ::)
it's only someone's opinion that Ronnie's calves are indeed higher than Dorian and lack his classic diamond shape and great development and separation of the gastrocnemious inner & outer heads as well as the soleus , and because it's only an ' opinion ' it doesn't make it true
fucking terrific logic ::)
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competitor has the superior physique from the standpoint of
muscular bulk, balanced development, muscular density and
definition.
exactly. and Ronnie is superior to dorian in these exact criteria:
thanks for posting this!:
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..nice quads Doz. did you steal those from a nationals competitor? LMAO.
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Nirvana comment on this post of ND's
Youre a complete and utter moron, ive said it before, ill say it again.
You post "proof" I say I see Dorian winning. All the sudden you say, you didnt say that before, which I clearly did. So either you just didnt pay attention, or youre truely mentally retarded.
IN ADDITION TO saying that its widely known that Dorian had something special when seen in person. as stated HERE.
::) Get fucked.
calm down meltwave see a specialist, I should have noted that only ND changed his mind about those pics.
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schockwave wins the argument because he gets the maddest and melts down the hardest
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calm down meltwave see a specialist, I should have noted that only ND changed his mind about those pics.
Fair enough.
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exactly. and Ronnie is superior to dorian in these exact criteria:
thanks for posting this!:
HAHAHAHAH!!!!
Lets see for years when ND posted that you simply ignored it, suddenly when he posted the OFFICIAL criteria you say Ronnie meets it more when he clearly doesnt? Like I said Hulkster, Im pretty sure thats a legitimate condition you have, where you make things up in your head and try and make them a reality. hahaha.
Hahah Ronnie is superior in density, conditioning and balance. You just confirmed you dont know anything about bodybuilding. hahahahahahahahHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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exactly. and Ronnie is superior to dorian in these exact criteria:
thanks for posting this!:
Poor kid acting like this is the first time it's ever been posted , I've posted it dozens of times and you denied it even more.
you can't even get Ronnie's best year right , you're the guy who thinks Dorian lost in 93 and Ronnie dominated in 01 and Ronnie has more detail when it comes to physique evaluation you've proven yourself to be a complete moron.
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calm down meltwave see a specialist, I should have noted that only ND changed his mind about those pics.
I never changed my mind , they're not accurate and that's a fact and Dorian still tramples him in terms of detail , density , dryness and balance & proportion oh and he's more complete too
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The judges also thought Ronnie fit that criteria the best 8 times
You twats act like Ronnie never won the damn thing, he won more than Dorian
Size and SHAPE are also part of the criteria...Dorian got a little drier...no question. Ronnies Size, shape and structure trump that IMO.
PS Ronnie got pretty fucking cut himself ;)
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HAHAHAHAH!!!!
Lets see for years when ND posted that you simply ignored it, suddenly when he posted the OFFICIAL criteria you say Ronnie meets it more when he clearly doesnt? Like I said Hulkster, Im pretty sure thats a legitimate condition you have, where you make things up in your head and try and make them a reality. hahaha.
Hahah Ronnie is superior in density, conditioning and balance. You just confirmed you dont know anything about bodybuilding. hahahahahahahahHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hulkster has confirmed many , many times how he doesn't know the basics of bodybuilding , when he said Dorian should have lost in 1993 to Flex , when he said Dorian was the most overrated bodybuilder of all-time because he dominated so much , that 94 was the most controversial Mr Olympia and 01 Ronnie dominated by losing the entire prejudging , that Ronnie 99 was more grainy than Dorian ever was , that Ronnie 99 is his best , that Ronnie 99 had more detailed calves than Dorian ever did , that Dorian's wins were the result of politics and NONE of Ronnies were , that Ronnie has better balance & proportion than Dorian , that 1998 was NOT a close contest , that Dorian is missing entire arm because one bicep is shorter than the other , I mean I shit you not I can honestly keep going on :-\
he NEVER gets anything right , even the basics he's stupid and proud and that's a bad combo
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The judges also thought Ronnie fit that criteria the best 8 times
You twats act like Ronnie never won the damn thing, he won more than Dorian
Size and SHAPE are also part of the criteria...Dorian got a little drier...no question. Ronnies Size, shape and structure trump that IMO.
PS Ronnie got pretty fucking cut himself ;)
The judges did think Ronnie fit the criteria relative to who he was competing with and Ronnie did but he wasn't competing with Yates
Ronnie won more than Dorian? he lost more than Dorian too his win/loss ratio is 40% Dorian's is 88% , Dorian NEVER once placed lower than second in a pro contest that record still stands.
Size and SHAPE are part of the criteria absolutely and I've said many , many times that Ronnie meets part or parts of the criteria better than Dorian but not ALL of the criteria
Ronnie did get pretty dry and hard like 98/01 but it was always at his lightest , Dorian could get just as hard and dry while retaining much more size while being better balanced and a better poser which sums up most of the criteria
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actually, the entire bb community agrees. and they are correct as the pics and vids overwhelmingly verify.
you idiots are the only two people on the planet that think that Ronnie and Flex were really close in 98.
and the only reason you do is so you can use the scorecard to suit your agenda.
fact is, the scorecard and onstage show two completely different things.
the score card (actually, the final score) shows a close contest between two competitors if you look at the numbers alone.
the onstage reality shows ronnie was far far ahead.
but like Flex said, he went into that contest 'with his name on the title' and that obviously influenced the judges scoring, at least in the first two rounds.
lmfao the scorecard don't matter and everyone agrees with you 98 wasn't close hahahahahaha the fact you continue to post this garbage only serves to prove me right.
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Poor kid acting like this is the first time it's ever been posted , I've posted it dozens of times and you denied it even more.
of course you have, many times.
but there are new people on this thread (nirvana) so they may not have seen it before.
still, I thank you for posting it yet again.
it just re-enforces what we already know: ronnie fullfills the criteria much better than dorian.
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Size and SHAPE are also part of the criteria...Dorian got a little drier...no question. Ronnies Size, shape and structure trump that IMO.
yup:
not even close if you apply the criteria:
ronnie has better shape, same size, better detail, its game over for 'The Keg' as Pumpster would say LOL.
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of course you have, many times.
but there are new people on this thread (nirvana) so they may not have seen it before.
still, I thank you for posting it yet again.
it just re-enforces what we already know: ronnie fullfills the criteria much better than dorian.
HAHAHA!!!! Yeah right you fucktwit. Youve been arguing against that criteria for as long as I can remember, suddenly its right here fucking your face and your trying to side with it and use it to your advantage? Your a real piece of work Hulkster. Are you a lawyer? Or maybe a politician? Ive never seen anyone so adept at trying to spin things around when youre getting fucked in the ass. hahahahahahHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
Hahahah Ronnie filling the criteria better, oh brother hahahah what an idea, hahaha posing, balance and proportion, density and dryness, MUSCULAR BULK, hahahah when Ronnie was smaller and lighter, haha oh brother monster delusions.
Hulkster, hahah oh brother what a name, you cant handle that Ronnie never beat Dorian, that Ronnie was never as thick as Dorian, and that Ronnie was never as dry and conditioned while being as large as Dorian.
You cant handle Dorian. HahahahHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
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of course you have, many times.
but there are new people on this thread (nirvana) so they may not have seen it before.
still, I thank you for posting it yet again.
it just re-enforces what we already know: ronnie fullfills the criteria much better than dorian.
Yes and you denied it and made up excuses and that blew up in your face and when pushed on how he meets it better you never could explain why as usual , run when pushed on your empty claims , just like you did when I asked you how Ronnie's hams were better and you can't respond intelligently as usual just ignore it
you can't even get his best year right and that's pretty fucking basic , you wouldn't know who ' fullfills' ( sic ) the criteria better , you're the guy who claimed Ronnie has more detailed calves than Dorian LMFAO
you know nothing , and we ALL know that ;)
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yup:
not even close if you apply the criteria:
ronnie has better shape, same size, better detail, its game over for 'The Keg' as Pumpster would say LOL.
Yup posting pics of Dorian not even flexing , yup Hulkster is proving he's scared of Yates , and his two favorite poses the standing relaxed and most muscular HAHAHAHAHA
how's Ronnie's shape in the calf department? hows his shape in the midsection? hows his shape in the forearms? how the shape of his side triceps pose? hows the shape of his ab-thigh? or front latspread?
Hulkster = blanket statements and no proof oh I mean shots of Ronnie flexed and Dorian not hahahahaha
let me try that , " Hey look everyone Dorian blows Ronnie out of the water in this pose. " retard
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HAHAHA!!!! Yeah right you fucktwit. Youve been arguing against that criteria for as long as I can remember, suddenly its right here fucking your face and your trying to side with it and use it to your advantage? Your a real piece of work Hulkster. Are you a lawyer? Or maybe a politician? Ive never seen anyone so adept at trying to spin things around when youre getting fucked in the ass. hahahahahahHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
Hahahah Ronnie filling the criteria better, oh brother hahahah what an idea, hahaha posing, balance and proportion, density and dryness, MUSCULAR BULK, hahahah when Ronnie was smaller and lighter, haha oh brother monster delusions.
Hulkster, hahah oh brother what a name, you cant handle that Ronnie never beat Dorian, that Ronnie was never as thick as Dorian, and that Ronnie was never as dry and conditioned while being as large as Dorian.
You cant handle Dorian. HahahahHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Oh he hated when I posted that criteria said pics and videos mean something and words don't lol Hulkster the turncoat has to try and save face now and claim the criteria fits Ronnie better ;D
this is how moronic these guys are they actually tried to argue that Ronnie 2001 at 247lbs carried more muscular bulk than Dorian did at 269lbs I shit you not , these are the people we're dealing with.
;D
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Good post, well spoken with sound logic.
ND can't comprehend things like that :)
Thanks, but seeing how this thread is going, it seems that nobody understood what i was saying
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Thanks, but seeing how this thread is going, it seems that nobody understood what i was saying
No we did the criteria is useless and there are no facts just opinions
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Thanks, but seeing how this thread is going, it seems that nobody understood what i was saying
No we understand your going by your opinion, but there IS a set judging criteria, but yes I understand what you're saying that its up to the judges opinion based on how they interpret the criteria, correct?
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No we understand your going by your opinion, but there IS a set judging criteria, but yes I understand what you're saying that its up to the judges opinion based on how they interpret the criteria, correct?
The "judging criteria" u claim that exists, is just another persons opinion that you, as either a bodybuilding fan or as a judge at a contest, have adopted as your own. But yes you're right and ND understood right too.This whole Dorian vs Ronnie thing is not a "the facts prove your (in this case Hulkster's) opinion wrong" issue. It's not something you can prove. It's just opinion vs. opinion. It's like trying to convince a guy that big boobs on a girl is attractive when that guy likes smaller boobs, one isnt right and the other wrong, it's just two different opinions.
But you (ND particularly) are the one that's wasted many years of your life trying to prove your opinion as fact
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The "judging criteria" u claim that exists, is just another persons opinion that you, as either a bodybuilding fan or as a judge at a contest, have adopted as your own. But yes you're right and ND understood right too.This whole Dorian vs Ronnie thing is not a "the facts prove your (in this case Hulkster's) opinion wrong" issue. It's not something you can prove. It's just opinion vs. opinion. It's like trying to convince a guy that big boobs on a girl is attractive when that guy likes smaller boobs, one isnt right and the other wrong, it's just two different opinions.
But you (ND particularly) are the one that's wasted many years of your life trying to prove your opinion as fact
I have NO desire to sway anyone's opinion , just inform theirs is WRONG based on how contests are judged. I've said many times on the subject of who you think is better there is NO right or wrong because it's subjective and based on preferences , but when pushed comes to shove and these guys do face each other there is a right & wrong and that's what I go by
and how have I wasted my life posting on a message board? I enjoy the topic and don't really follow any other sports so discussing this is like discussing baseball or football it's a forum
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The "judging criteria" u claim that exists, is just another persons opinion that you, as either a bodybuilding fan or as a judge at a contest, have adopted as your own. But yes you're right and ND understood right too.This whole Dorian vs Ronnie thing is not a "the facts prove your (in this case Hulkster's) opinion wrong" issue. It's not something you can prove. It's just opinion vs. opinion. It's like trying to convince a guy that big boobs on a girl is attractive when that guy likes smaller boobs, one isnt right and the other wrong, it's just two different opinions.
But you (ND particularly) are the one that's wasted many years of your life trying to prove your opinion as fact
The problem is, is that criteria was set into place by the people in power to set some sort of standard as to how bodybuilding is judged. So those peoples opinions have BECOME right and wrong, because thats how contests are judged. Yes?
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The problem is, is that criteria was set into place by the people in power to set some sort of standard as to how bodybuilding is judged. So those peoples opinions have BECOME right and wrong, because thats how contests are judged. Yes?
Like I said it's only an opinion and NOT a fact that Dorian's calves insert lower than Ronnie's and they have the classic diamond shape and have more detail & separation and are in proportion better when directly compared to Ronnie , that's just an opinion it's NOT a fact ::)
give me a fucking break , there is a set of criterion it's how everyone is judged on spare me this doesn't apply and no one is right or wrong.
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The other thing is Magoo, its not a matter of personal opinion, the question was, could Dorian beat this, as in could he win in a contest, and we are arguing based on the criteria set into place by the IFBB to judge a physique and decide which is going to win the contest. It may not be people personal favorite, true, but it is what contests are judged by.
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The other thing is Magoo, its not a matter of personal opinion, the question was, could Dorian beat this, as in could he win in a contest, and we are arguing based on the criteria set into place by the IFBB to judge a physique and decide which is going to win the contest. It may not be people personal favorite, true, but it is what contests are judged by.
the ' judging criteria ' that you claim exists ::) doesn't apply man , sound like Victor Richards who didn't want to be judged by the rules set forth
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The problem is, is that criteria was set into place by the people in power to set some sort of standard as to how bodybuilding is judged. So those peoples opinions have BECOME right and wrong, because thats how contests are judged. Yes?
Because a lot of people believe it and follow it doesnt make it true. It has become a majority opinion, but it still doesn't make it "right" and other ways "wrong". I think i said something like that earlier to ND about how if a lot of people think something doesnt mean its true. Because a lot of people say "this is how abs are suppose to look on stage and this is why dorians abs are therefore better than ronnies", doesn't mean that ronnie had "wrong" abs.
And of course this is assuming (which we all know to be false) that each judge at a contest follows precisely whatever common criteria in how to judge. There are preferences in every contest and it is impossible for a contest to be judged based on predetermined criteria and not preference (sometimes the two match, sometimes they dont). This is why guessing at who will win in a contest between Ronnie and Dorian is a stupid argument. We, whoever tries predict the outcome, are guessing at what somebody else's preference would be in a given situation, and we can't know that.
What i'm trying to say is that the whole Dorian vs Ronnie thing is stupid and a huge huge waste of time.
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Because a lot of people believe it and follow it doesnt make it true. It has become a majority opinion, but it still doesn't make it "right" and other ways "wrong". I think i said something like that earlier to ND about how if a lot of people think something doesnt mean its true. Because a lot of people say "this is how abs are suppose to look on stage and this is why dorians abs are therefore better than ronnies", doesn't mean that ronnie had "wrong" abs.
And of course this is assuming (which we all know to be false) that each judge at a contest follows precisely whatever common criteria in how to judge. There are preferences in every contest and it is impossible for a contest to be judged based on predetermined criteria and not preference (sometimes the two match, sometimes they dont). This is why guessing at who will win in a contest between Ronnie and Dorian is a stupid argument. We, whoever tries predict the outcome, are guessing at what somebody else's preference would be in a given situation, and we can't know that.
What i'm trying to say is that the whole Dorian vs Ronnie thing is stupid and a huge huge waste of time.
spoken like a person who doesn't know how contests are judged.
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Like I said it's only an opinion and NOT a fact that Dorian's calves insert lower than Ronnie's and they have the classic diamond shape and have more detail & separation and are in proportion better when directly compared to Ronnie , that's just an opinion it's NOT a fact ::)
give me a fucking break , there is a set of criterion it's how everyone is judged on spare me this doesn't apply and no one is right or wrong.
It is a fact that Dorian's calves insert lower, it is a fact that they have diamond shape. Is that how a calf should look? The answer to that is an opinion. It could be said that high calves are how a bodybuilder should look. Like Sergio Oliva had high lats, is that better or worse than say Franco who had low lats? Thats an opinion. Opinions change. So it shouldn't be argued which is better.
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Because a lot of people believe it and follow it doesnt make it true. It has become a majority opinion, but it still doesn't make it "right" and other ways "wrong". I think i said something like that earlier to ND about how if a lot of people think something doesnt mean its true. Because a lot of people say "this is how abs are suppose to look on stage and this is why dorians abs are therefore better than ronnies", doesn't mean that ronnie had "wrong" abs.
And of course this is assuming (which we all know to be false) that each judge at a contest follows precisely whatever common criteria in how to judge. There are preferences in every contest and it is impossible for a contest to be judged based on predetermined criteria and not preference (sometimes the two match, sometimes they dont). This is why guessing at who will win in a contest between Ronnie and Dorian is a stupid argument. We, whoever tries predict the outcome, are guessing at what somebody else's preference would be in a given situation, and we can't know that.
What i'm trying to say is that the whole Dorian vs Ronnie thing is stupid and a huge huge waste of time.
Fair nough. All Im going by, is that when trying to decide which person is going to win a contest, that youre going to go by the standards of judging set into place, because that is (supposed to be) how the contest is decided. Since the judges are supposed to follow those criteria, it would make more sense to go by those standards than by personal preference, correct?
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It is a fact that Dorian's calves insert lower, it is a fact that they have diamond shape. Is that how a calf should look? The answer to that is an opinion. It could be said that high calves are how a bodybuilder should look. Like Sergio Oliva had high lats, is that better or worse than say Franco who had low lats? Thats an opinion. Opinions change. So it shouldn't be argued which is better.
It could be said that's how it's supposed to be but it doesn't , I go by what's set forth not some imaginary criteria should be. like I said I deal in reality
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Fair nough. All Im going by, is that when trying to decide which person is going to win a contest, that youre going to go by the standards of judging set into place, because that is (supposed) how the contest is decided. Since the judges are supposed to follow those criteria, it would make more sense to go by those standards than by personal preference, correct?
I think I get what you're saying, correct me if i misunderstood. But what I'm saying is that it is pointless to decide (i prefer the term "guess") which person is going to win a contest. In an ideal world, yes you could go through a checkoff list and see who comes out on top and every judge would agree with you. But the truth is that preferences do reign supreme and the judge sitting at that table on that given day might have a different opinion than the person who wrote down the rules in the IFBB handbook about how "granite skin" or whatever a guy should have. This throws the whole idea of a "set formula" out the window, doesnt it?
The closest example I can think of is like judging a beauty contest. See how difficult that would be? Opinions clash.
EDIT: I just went back and looked at the first page of this thread to remind myself what it was about. The correct answer to this thread is "we dont know".
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I think I get what you're saying, correct me if i misunderstood. But what I'm saying is that it is pointless to decide (i prefer the term "guess") which person is going to win a contest. In an ideal world, yes you could go through a checkoff list and see who comes out on top and every judge would agree with you. But the truth is that preferences do reign supreme and the judge sitting at that table on that given day might have a different opinion than the person who wrote down the rules in the IFBB handbook about how "granite skin" or whatever a guy should have. This throws the whole idea of a "set formula" out the window, doesnt it?
The closest example I can think of is like judging a beauty contest. See how difficult that would be? Opinions clash.
You are correct. However, it has been shown that Hulkster will not leave the subject alone, any thread in which Dorians name comes up he goes and brings this argument up, and since I am easily trolled, I always wind up debatingg, and I always try and go by the standards that have been set forth because there is alway people that post pics and say "see? this is proof ronnie would win" (see Nirvana, Hulkster) When they cant either figure out that
A. There is standards set into place for judging and
B. That their proof is actually their opinion.
And I hate when people try and pass their opinion off as proof, or when it flies in the face of the standards and rules set into place.
Bottom line . I am easily trolled.
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Yup posting pics of Dorian not even flexing , yup Hulkster is proving he's scared of Yates , and his two favorite poses the standing relaxed and most muscular HAHAHAHAHA
how's Ronnie's shape in the calf department? hows his shape in the midsection? hows his shape in the forearms? how the shape of his side triceps pose? hows the shape of his ab-thigh? or front latspread?
Hulkster = blanket statements and no proof oh I mean shots of Ronnie flexed and Dorian not hahahahaha
let me try that , " Hey look everyone Dorian blows Ronnie out of the water in this pose. " retard
its funny because in the comparison there ronnie is still destroying dorian on arms
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its funny because in the comparison there ronnie is still destroying dorian on arms
Good thing its not an Arms contest, isnt it stud? ;D
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its funny because in the comparison there ronnie is still destroying dorian on arms
now you see the level of delusion and stupidity that the nuthuggers display.
they literally know nothing about the sport.
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now you see the level of delusion and stupidity that the nuthuggers display.
they literally know nothing about the sport.
Hahaha youre saying that because in the last 2 pages it has been clearly shown that you dont know shit,
The only thing you know is "ronnie-building".
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!
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Good thing its not an Arms contest, isnt it stud? ;D
Ain't a Calves contest either ;)
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its funny because in the comparison there ronnie is still destroying dorian on arms
And that's all that's judged in a contest of fanboys
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Ain't a Calves contest either ;)
Nope and it's not a shape contest either , it's a muscular bulk , balanced development , density & dryness and posing & presentation contest like I've stated hundreds of times and take a wild guess who meets ALL of that criteria better? ;)
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it sure isn't a calf contest.
its the only bodypart or physical attribute (along with abs) that dorian actually has an advantage in.
its a total massacre of dorian by ronnie time after time:
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And that's all that's judged in a contest of fanboys
you wish that was all that was judged:
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^
total destruction.
countdown to the excuses!!!
5...4...3...2.....
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it sure isn't a calf contest.
its the only bodypart or physical attribute (along with abs) that dorian actually has an advantage in.
its a total massacre of dorian by ronnie time after time:
Hahahahaha the old lets reduced Dorian down to back and calves ploy ::)
and still trying to collect parts and you have the nerve to type none of us know how it works? tsk tsk dummy
Dorian KILLS Ronnie in poses NOT parts and he meets ALL of the criteria better in POSES than Ronnie does , which is why you only post most muscular shots and shots of Dorian unflexed and low quality , and photoshopped :-X
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you wish that was all that was judged:
hehehehehe no you dummies judge it by fantasy comparisons where Ronnie's calves are twice the size of Dorian despite being much lighter LMFAO
' total destruction ' what a tool ;D
see above for Dorian crushing your hero is POSES not parts ;)
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Hahaha youre saying that because in the last 2 pages it has been clearly shown that you dont know shit,
The only thing you know is "ronnie-building".
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!
QFT even in his go-to pose the judges still look for balanced development , density & dryness , muscular bulk etc the whole criteria and Dorian has this pose covered as well and yes they look for calves too
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Hahah have you ever noticed Hulkster that the pose you continually hid behind, the MM, is also known as the "hides weakness'" pose? hahahahah
You dont know shit, youve never known shit, all you know is that you like Ronnie the best so you try and come up with an argument why hes better, and when posted with the cold hard facts of how BB contests are judged, youre left out cold.
Ronnie never beat Dorian, Ronnie was never as conditioned, dry, and hard as Dorian, and no matter what you try and say, it doesnt change that fact.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
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QFT even in his go-to pose the judges still look for balanced development , density & dryness , muscular bulk etc the whole criteria and Dorian has this pose covered as well and yes they look for calves too
The thing is ND for every "good" pic of Dorian there is a better one of Ronnie.
there are plenty of bad pics of both of them
and you'll notice in ALL of the pics...good or bad, Ronnie's quads look like quads, not deformed Chernobyl carrots like Dorians :)
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The thing is ND for every "good" pic of Dorian there is a better one of Ronnie.
there are plenty of bad pics of both of them
Ronnie had the best MM of all time.
You wont hear any argument from me.
Its because it highlighted his arms and delt separation, but it also hides all of his flaws.
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The thing is ND for every "good" pic of Dorian there is a better one of Ronnie.
there are plenty of bad pics of both of them
NOT better than that pic I posted , sorry sport Dorian's bigger 269lbs in that pic ( Ronnie is 264lbs ) and there is a vast difference between being 269lbs hard and dry than 264 and soft , harder & drier , and still has better balance & proportion , especially not 2000
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Ronnie had the best MM of all time.
You wont hear any argument from me.
Its because it highlighted his arms and delt separation, but it also hides all of his flaws.
He doesn't hide his shit calves and his clear lack of density & dryness or his leg imbalance although it does hide that horrid midsection
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Look at the way Ronnie's chest sinks in and Dorian is punching out and in some shots Ronnie is all arms in this pose goes back to his balance issues
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NOT better than that pic I posted , sorry sport Dorian's bigger 269lbs in that pic ( Ronnie is 264lbs ) and there is a vast difference between being 269lbs hard and dry than 264 and soft , harder & drier , and still has better balance & proportion , especially not 2000
If you think Dorian looks harder and more separated than Ronnie in those two pics you must be drunk or blind....seriously
Weight is irrelevant, BBers are notorious for lying about it, I don't believe a single claim. Do you KNOW how much Dorian weighed or did you read it in a BBing comicbook i mean magazine ?
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He doesn't hide his shit calves and his clear lack of density & dryness or his leg imbalance although it does hide that horrid midsection
Dorian had leg a imbalance too..... small, weird looking quads and calves too big, certainly not "balanced" :)
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If you think Dorian looks harder and more separated than Ronnie in those two pics you must be drunk or blind....seriously
Weight is irrelevant, BBers are notorious for lying about it, I don't believe a single claim. Do you KNOW how much Dorian weighed or did you read it in a BBing comicbook i mean magazine ?
I wont argue Ronnie wins the MM.
This is how I see it.
1/4 turns- Dorian
FDB - Ronnie
FLS - Dorian
MM - Ronnie hands down
Side Chest - Dorian due to Ronnie looking like a total mismatch of bodyparts.
Side Tri- Dorian no question.
RDB - Ronnie - Debatable. For the sake of argument Ill say Ronnie by muscle separation and biceps.
RLS - Dorian due to thickness, hardness, etc.
Thats 4 to 3 Dorian. IMO, thats how it would go. Not a landslide by any stretch of the imagination, but I think thats a pretty unbiased assessment.
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If you think Dorian looks harder and more separated than Ronnie in those two pics you must be drunk or blind....seriously
Weight is irrelevant, BBers are notorious for lying about it, I don't believe a single claim. Do you KNOW how much Dorian weighed or did you read it in a BBing comicbook i mean magazine ?
It's crystal clear who is harder comparing Dorian at 269lbs compared to Ronnie 2000 it's blatant it's not open for discussion , Ronnie's no where near as hard & dry as he was in 98 and 2001 ASC and he's lucky if he's just as hard and dry as Dorian at those contests
weight is irrelevant huh? this is true to an extent because if that were the case Art Atwood would be placing higher , however conditioned muscular bulk is not irrelevant it's in fact evident when two competitors are standing side-by-side the judges who can see for themselves who is carrying more muscular bulk while being hard as nails and dry as hell , there is a vast difference between being 264lbs and soft & holding some water and the same whilst being in razor sharp condition and Dorian was weighed right before that photoshoot and plenty of people were there to verify if you don't believe his claim that's on you
please learn the difference
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Dorian had leg a imbalance too..... small, weird looking quads and calves too big, certainly not "balanced" :)
? You cant be serious. Dorian had monster legs. One quad head was grossly overdeveloped and hid another head, but they were huge, and perfectly balanced with his calves.
Clearly you are another one of those guys that thinks the quads are supposed to be 6 times the size of the calves lol.
Remember when Haney was going up against Dorian?
They said, wow hes like a Haney with legs!
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Dorian had leg a imbalance too..... small, weird looking quads and calves too big, certainly not "balanced" :)
says you and you're also the guy who claims Ronnie 2000 is harder than Dorian , it's right in line with what you know or what you don't know
Are Dorian's legs perfect? NOPE are they in much better balance & proportion than Ronnie's YUP
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says you and you're also the guy who claims Ronnie 2000 is harder than Dorian , it's right in line with what you know or what you don't know
Are Dorian's legs perfect? NOPE are they in much better balance & proportion than Ronnie's YUP
That's not even a good shot of Ronnies legs and they are killing Chernobyl quads
Out of scale too....you made Dorian taller than ronnie there ;)
PPS...you are doing the same thing you call hulkster out for...using a high quality pic of Yates Vs a shitty screen cap of Coleman....and Coleman still wins HaHahaHaha
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That's not even a good shot of Ronnies legs and they are killing Chernobyl quads
Out of scale too....you made Dorian taller than ronnie there ;)
And that's Dorian at one of his worse years 1994 ;) Ronnie's LEGS quads AND calves are most certainly not ' killing ' Dorians you're fond of overstatements like the rest of the Coleman fanboys
and how the hell did I make Dorian taller? ???
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That's not even a good shot of Ronnies legs and they are killing Chernobyl quads
Out of scale too....you made Dorian taller than ronnie there ;)
PPS...you are doing the same thing you call hulkster out for...using a high quality pic of Yates Vs a shitty screen cap of Coleman....and Coleman still wins HaHahaHaha
That's a magazine scan from the Mr Olympia coverage in Flex magazine and it's not high quality and nothing wrong with that Coleman pic , it's not a video screencap of Dorian compared to a compressed youtube video big difference and I was actually bitching at Hulkster for posting flexed pics of Ronnie and relaxed ones of Yates , so you're wrong on all accounts and yes wrong that Ronnie's LEGS quads and CALVES are ' killing ' Dorians ;)
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? You cant be serious. Dorian had monster legs. One quad head was grossly overdeveloped and hid another head, but they were huge, and perfectly balanced with his calves.
Clearly you are another one of those guys that thinks the quads are supposed to be 6 times the size of the calves lol.
Remember when Haney was going up against Dorian?
They said, wow hes like a Haney with legs!
No the fans boy like HUGE quads and if Dorian's quads don't look like Ronnies they're weak and because Ronnie's quads are HUGE his LEGS are better lol wonderful logic these guys employ
Ronnie's quads may very well be better than Dorians , his calves aren't and the proportion between them most certainly is not and Ronnie's grossly oversized glutes with can actually be seen from the front aren't in proportion with his physique and look at Ronnie's hams in profile it's a 90/10 split in favor of the quads this isn't proportion I mean these guys only care about HUGE quads lol
Ronnie has better quads how is that abdominal and thigh compared to Dorian? ;D
when will they learn it's pose NOT parts that count
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If you think Dorian looks harder and more separated than Ronnie in those two pics you must be drunk or blind....seriously
Weight is irrelevant, BBers are notorious for lying about it, I don't believe a single claim. Do you KNOW how much Dorian weighed or did you read it in a BBing comicbook i mean magazine ?
LOL! love it
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Groink here's a lesson for you this is Ronnie hard as nails and dry as hell ( 2001 ) and Ronnie not ( 2000 ) if you can't ascertain the difference let me know and I'll teach you ;)
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2000 English Grand Prix - High Quality Video
Ronnie looked better here than at the Mr. Olympia that year.
&feature=channel
Someone embed this damn thing.
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2000 English Grand Prix - High Quality Video
Ronnie looked better here than at the Mr. Olympia that year.
&feature=channel
Someone embed this damn thing.
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2000 English Grand Prix - High Quality Video
Ronnie looked better here than at the Mr. Olympia that year.
&feature=channel
Looked better, but still not up to par. Holding water, gut was large, but he was full.
I seriously think he was the start of that whole posing style where they just play a song and walk around hitting poses, there isnt even a routine there. Not to mention he cant pose for shit.
Good thing for him he was rediculously big and cut compared to competition. lol. Cause he fucking sucked as a poser. (Note - I really do like Ronnie Coleman, but you gotta be honest the guy couldnt pose for shit, and had some serious flaws)
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Looked better, but still not up to par. Holding water, gut was large, but he was full.
I seriously think he was the start of that whole posing style where they just play a song and walk around hitting poses, there isnt even a routine there. Not to mention he cant pose for shit.
Good thing for him he was rediculously big and cut compared to competition. lol. Cause he fucking sucked as a poser. (Note - I really do like Ronnie Coleman, but you gotta be honest the guy couldnt pose for shit, and had some serious flaws)
That's another flaw these guys are more than willing to gloss over , Yates is no Labrada but he knows how to hit a mandatory pose and show his physique off to it's best advantage
You can see a natural progression of Ronnie getting heavier and his conditioning getting worse , you can see it from 98-99 99-00 01-02 etc although he did tie it all together at the ASC people severly underestimate how much of a liability this is it cost him the 2002 SOS and almost the 01 Olympia and as well as the 06
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This ain't even his best LMFAO and this would trample 2000
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This ain't even his best LMFAO and this would trample 2000
puny arms, weird legs, all back...ugly, disgusting physique
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puny arms, weird legs, all back...ugly, disgusting physique
Hahaha you really enjoy getting ND riled up dont you?
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puny arms, weird legs, all back...ugly, disgusting physique
i hope your saying that to bust balls and are not actually serious..............he looked like he was carved out of granite at that show
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Hahaha you really enjoy getting ND riled up dont you?
riled up? he needs to put in more effort than that because it ain't working yet. ;)
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puny arms, weird legs, all back...ugly, disgusting physique
now this is a meltdown ;D ;)
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i hope your saying that to bust balls and are not actually serious..............he looked like he was carved out of granite at that show
He is. He does this cause ND treats every post of his like its serious.
ND you gotta understand hes just fucking with you.
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He is. He does this cause ND treats every post of his like its serious.
ND you gotta understand hes just fucking with you.
He's being contrary but he does feel Ronnie is better and I can only go by what he types , and these guys do actually believe the shit , Hulkster tried for months to convince people Ronnie had more detailed calves :-X
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He's being contrary but he does feel Ronnie is better and I can only go by what he types , and these guys do actually believe the shit , Hulkster tried for months to convince people Ronnie had more detailed calves :-X
His arms are puny
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His arms are puny
Oh really? ;)
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The thing is ND for every "good" pic of Dorian there is a better one of Ronnie.
there are plenty of bad pics of both of them
and you'll notice in ALL of the pics...good or bad, Ronnie's quads look like quads, not deformed Chernobyl carrots like Dorians :)
well said.
but Flowerboy and Cockwave are far too stupid to ever understand.. ::)
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If you think Dorian looks harder and more separated than Ronnie in those two pics you must be drunk or blind....seriously
and stupid. stupid is always part of the guy dogma.
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puny arms, weird legs, all back...ugly, disgusting physique
agreed. post tear dorian always sucked even though his back was good, although it was not up to ronnie's eventual level.
but these idiots put up post tear stuff as if it even comes close to a peak ronnie LMAO.. ::)
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he looked like he was carved out of caramel at that show
fixed.
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Oh really? ;)
Groink is talking about dorian's arms in the 96 clip you keep orgasming over.
and then you post a 93 offseason/precontest clip as a retort.. ::)
God damn you are dumb. :-\
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Hahah epic being unable to refute the judging criteria posted earlier, and being relegated to trying to tear Dorian down like you always do,
Know nothing fanboy.
ha.
hahah.
hahahahah!
Hows it feel to know Ronnie lost to Dorian like 8 fucking times?
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fixed.
Don't disparage Ronnie like that
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Groink is talking about dorian's arms in the 96 clip you keep orgasming over.
and then you post a 93 offseason/precontest clip as a retort.. ::)
God damn you are dumb. :-\
no shit dumbass , it was my turn to be contrary ::) ::) get a fucking clue dude
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Groink is talking about dorian's arms in the 96 clip you keep orgasming over.
and then you post a 93 offseason/precontest clip as a retort.. ::)
God damn you are dumb. :-\
Hahah does it hurt to know that Ronnie never displayed the kind of condition, dryness, balance and proportion, density, or THICKNESS front to back displayed in that clip from the 96 GGP?
Has to hurt judging by how bitter you get every time its posted! hahahah!
BTW, where was Ronnies posing? You keep neglecting that, that your hero posed like someone with down syndrome, couldnt hit the pose, couldnt pose to the music, just bounced around on stage like a retarded stripper pulling his thong into his ass crack, showing off his huge and unbalanced glutes. Guess thats another area where hed lose to Dorian. You know, since posing is a judged part of the routine and all.
Bwahahaha!!!
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Hahah does it hurt to know that Ronnie never displayed the kind of condition, dryness, balance and proportion, density, or THICKNESS front to back displayed in that clip from the 96 GGP?
Has to hurt judging by how bitter you get every time its posted! hahahah!
BTW, where was Ronnies posing? You keep neglecting that, that your hero posed like someone with down syndrome, couldnt hit the pose, couldnt pose to the music, just bounced around on stage like a retarded stripper pulling his thong into his ass crack, showing off his huge and unbalanced glutes. Guess thats another area where hed lose to Dorian. You know, since posing is a judged part of the routine and all.
Bwahahaha!!!
Damn Hulkster taking a beating ;D
Ronnie is down , density , dryness , balance , proportion and posing but he's got some big arms and quads though LMFAO
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down my ass.
this is the best dorian EVER looked and its not even close:
ronnie has better quad sweep, way better arms, chest, back, hams/glutes, better muscle shape, more detailed etc etc.
the ONLY advantage dorian has is calves and abs.
he loses out on every single other attribute and bodypart, not to metion overall taper.
and these are the best photos of him in existance LMAO
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down my ass.
this is the best dorian EVER looked and its not even close:
ronnie has better quad sweep, way better arms, chest, back, hams/glutes, better muscle shape, more detailed etc etc.
the ONLY advantage dorian has is calves and abs.
he loses out on every single other attribute and bodypart, not to metion overall taper.
and these are the best photos of him in existance LMAO
meltdown ;D
lots of claims you never backed up this shot just destroys anything Ronnie's ever shown especially 01ASC he would make Ronnie look small ;)
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lots of claims you never backed up
no, the comparison of real life pics backs up all the claims quite nicely.
thats what you don't understand and everyone else does.
its why you are taking such a beating in this thread like you always do.
knowing you, you will probably run from this thread just like the truce thread.
I embarrassed you in that thread, and the same is happening here.
oh well, don't let the door hit your cowardly ass on the way out.
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Give it a fucking rest. Coleman is the most amazing bodybuilder to ever hit the stage.
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meltdown ;D
lots of claims you never backed up this shot just destroys anything Ronnie's ever shown especially 01ASC he would make Ronnie look small ;)
Ronnie would laugh at Dorians shitty torn bicep and then piss in his mouth
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Ronnie would laugh at Dorians shitty torn bicep and then piss in his mouth
Dorian also had oddly shaped quads.
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no, the comparison of real life pics backs up all the claims quite nicely.
thats what you don't understand and everyone else does.
its why you are taking such a beating in this thread like you always do.
knowing you, you will probably run from this thread just like the truce thread.
I embarrassed you in that thread, and the same is happening here.
oh well, don't let the door hit your cowardly ass on the way out.
the old tried and trusted everyone agrees with me ploy and the old pics and videos prove me right hahahaha and more bullshit I never ran from you where am I? in another thread making you look retarded ;)
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Dorian also had oddly shaped quads.
and yellow junkie teeth
Ronnie would stick his finger way up his ass and then wipe it on Dorian's forehead.
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and yellow junkie teeth
Ronnie would stick his finger way up his ass and then wipe it on Dorian's forehead.
whoa dude little to much information there :-X Ronnie wouldn't have to stick his finger up his ass , Hulkster's heads in there
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What would happen if ND and Hulkster ever met?
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Hulkster would automatcally try and bring up how awesome Ronnie is, and bust out his wallet photographs, and ND would probably walk away (as he tried to do in the truce thread) as Hulkster chased after him trying to shove photos in his face, like he chases ND in every thread with the word Dorian on it.
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What would happen if ND and Hulkster ever met?
He'd try to kill me for making him look retarded on many occasions
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The burning question is, do either one of you even work out, or look like you do?
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Hulkster would automatcally try and bring up how awesome Ronnie is, and bust out his wallet photographs, and ND would probably walk away (as he tried to do in the truce thread) as Hulkster chased after him trying to shove photos in his face, like he chases ND in every thread with the word Dorian on it.
Hulkster live in a fantasy world where people run from him and his version of there truth where Dorian is the most overrated bodybuilder of all-time and Ronnie has more detailed calves , he imagines people are scared of him and his photoshopped pics and made-up quotes and we're jealous of his Ford escape LMFAO where we're jealous that he owns a home WOW-WEE , where Ronnie dominated a contest he lost the whole prejudging in and how Dorian shouldn't be even mentioned in the same breathe as Ronnie despite kicking his ass for years on end
yes a very colorful and magical place Hulkster lives , but like I said , I deal in reality. ;D
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We know for a fact Hulkster doesnt, he was caught on camera at an Olympia with Ronnie posing in his face, hes a skinny big nosed Jew.
*Que ND to post the Pic of Hulkster with Ronnie posing in his face*
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We know for a fact Hulkster doesnt, he was caught on camera at an Olympia with Ronnie posing in his face, hes a skinny big nosed Jew.
*Que ND to post the Pic of Hulkster with Ronnie posing in his face*
Booom mother fuckers LMFAO
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Booom mother fuckers LMFAO
Is that really him?
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Is that really him?
In all honesty, probably not, but its funny to think.
If it were, hed be yelling here to the moon and back how he saw Ronnie live and how hes 132964x bigger in person, and how photos dont do justice, because thats what people say about Doz and he hates it.
However, hes never been to a pro show. The only pro hes ever seen is Nimrod King. So yet again, he is an internet fan boy.
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The burning question is, do either one of you even work out, or look like you do?
The first time I stepped into a gym was 1986 and have been going on and off ever since , I have a smith machine with 315lbs in my home gym and go to the local Gold's , I train 3 days a week with weights using basic compound movements roughly an hour or so ( use machines to mix it up as well ) , I do chest and triceps Monday , Back and Biceps Tuesday , and legs and delts on Fridays , and do cardio seven days a week ( treadmill 30/45 mins ) so days especially after leg days the cardio gets cut down , so to answer your question yes I work-out and look like it.
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Is that really him?
No, but I imagine it is and that guy looks like he drives an Escape lol
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In all honesty, probably not, but its funny to think.
If it were, hed be yelling here to the moon and back how he saw Ronnie live and how hes 132964x bigger in person, and how photos dont do justice, because thats what people say about Doz and he hates it.
However, hes never been to a pro show. The only pro hes ever seen is Nimrod King. So yet again, he is an internet fan boy.
Hulkster mentioned he was Canadian. ND I know is a New Englander.
Both share a lot of passion for men in thongs.
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Hulkster mentioned he was Canadian. ND I know is a New Englander.
Both share a lot of passion for men in thongs.
Dorian never wore a thong , Ronnie started that trend :-X
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Hulkster mentioned he was Canadian. ND I know is a New Englander.
Both share a lot of passion for men in thongs.
This is true.
One is educated on the actual rules behind bb judging, the other just knows what he likes.
Both are violently opinionated.
Its like watching two guys get in an argument about MMA,
One is like the Redneck that watches MMA and calls out the moves when they do them (OMG ARMBAR! DUDE KIMURA!!! DO IT!!!!)
The other is like someone that actually trains MMA and understands how it works and the rules.
Lolol.
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This is true.
One is educated on the actual rules behind bb judging, the other just knows what he likes.
Both are violently opinionated.
Its like watching two guys get in an argument about MMA,
One is like the Redneck that watches MMA and calls out the moves when they do them (OMG ARMBAR! DUDE KIMURA!!! DO IT!!!!)
The other is like someone that actually trains MMA and understands how it works and the rules.
Lolol.
Hulkster is stupid and he tries to act smart he hates that I constantly remind him of how wrong he is and how stupid he is , I offered him a way out he tried to act like the big man , then I utterly destroyed him using the IFBB judging criteria and then finally his own hero ...now he's crushed runs around talking about how I ran from him and how Ronnie didn't mean Dorian would kick his ass three different times lol oh and how everyone agrees with him and his photoshopped pics are proof and so are his made-up quotes.
poor little guy , like I said he still hasn't recovered. :-\
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Give it a fucking rest. Coleman is the most amazing bodybuilder to ever hit the stage.
I thought it was widely known and accepted that coleman was/is the greatest/stronget bodybuilder of all time.
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I thought it was widely known and accepted that coleman was/is the greatest/stronget bodybuilder of all time.
it is, and the pics and vids verify this time after time.
but you have two retards in this thread that do not agree beacause they don't undertand the sport or how physiques are judged. they post the criteria but then don't know how to apply it.
hence why they insist dorian is better but no one else agrees.
its that simple.
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I say ND and Hulkster should meet one day on a posing dais, each wearing their respective "muscle suits" with complimenting posing trunks and battle out. Then, we can honestly say, who is better.
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it is, and the pics and vids verify this time after time.
but you have two retards in this thread that do not agree beacause they don't undertand the sport or how physiques are judged. they post the criteria but then don't know how to apply it.
hence why they insist dorian is better but no one else agrees.
its that simple.
one of dorians best years, and the pic is scaled to where dorian is bigger
I can't wait to hear the excuse about this pic. they'll probably just say, dorian looks better there, for some reason.
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it is, and the pics and vids verify this time after time.
but you have two retards in this thread that do not agree beacause they don't undertand the sport or how physiques are judged. they post the criteria but then don't know how to apply it.
hence why they insist dorian is better but no one else agrees.
its that simple.
No one else agrees Dorian is better huh? opppssss forgot what Ronnie Coleman had to say on this subject did we? let me remind you Ronnie Coleman has gone on record THREE times now stating he couldn't beat Dorian Yates even after he won multiple Mr Olympia contests ;)
And there you go again posting the old tried & true most muscular pose and claiming Ronnie is better lmfao I can always count on you for strawmen and appeals to numbers , you don't dare post them in a side triceps shot or a ab-thigh , or front latspreads or standing relaxed from the front or rear and then you have the audacity to claim other people don't understand how contests work ;D most muscular is an entire contest as much as you wish it was and even in that pose Dorian is still harder , drier , better balanced . carries more muscular bulk
Ronnie finished you and your opinion eons ago when he conceded he was NO match for Dorian and you've been trying to prove him wrong for a long time now and it still ain't working ;)
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I thought it was widely known and accepted that coleman was/is the greatest/stronget bodybuilder of all time.
It's also known Ronnie faced Dorian eight times and failed every time , Ronnie was the greatest compared to the guys he beat he never beat Dorian and said he couldn't ;)
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ND is so clueless he fails to realize that EVERYONE beat ronnie back when ronnie was losing to dorian ::).
he was an infant compared to later years:
again, even basic things about the sport these morons can't grasp.
they should really take up playing cards instead.
this is just too intellectually tough for them.. :-\
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they also don't realize that ronnie was a humble dude
"I'm no different than anyone else, just a little bigger"
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ND is so clueless he fails to realize that EVERYONE beat ronnie back when ronnie was losing to dorian ::).
he was an infant compared to later years:
again, even basic things about the sport these morons can't grasp.
they should really take up playing cards instead.
this is just too intellectually tough for them.. :-\
Hulkster what you fail to realize moron was Dorian was beating EVERYONE ELSE TOO
When you come up with gems like Ronnie has more detailed calves that Dorian then it's time you pick-up " bodybuilding for dummies "
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they also don't realize that ronnie was a humble dude
"I'm no different than anyone else, just a little bigger"
THOUGHTS ON LOSING TO SCHLIERKAMP AT THE 2002 GNC SHOW OF STRENGTH:
It was nothing more than a way to create interest in the sport. No reigning Mr. Olympia had lost a show like this before. The goal was to shake things up, set the stage for a three-way battle [with Cutler and Schlierkamp] at the 2003 Mr. Olympia. There was no way in the world that I should have lost the GNC. Just look at the photos. I was victimized by the system
real ' humble '
For Jay to get what I have [the Mr. Olympia title], I think he needs to be reborn and pray for better genetics."
being white sure helped Jay win the Olympia ( 2006 )
yeah real fucking ' humble '
Ronnie was being honest , don't presume to speak for Ronnie
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I just think it's funny that Ronnie went from finishing no better than 6th to winning it the year after Dorian retired.
He went from an also-ran to unbeatable in one year....but there's no politics in the placings ::)
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I just think it's funny that Ronnie went from finishing no better than 6th to winning it the year after Dorian retired.
He went from an also-ran to unbeatable in one year....but there's no politics in the placings ::)
So what are you saying Ronnie didn't win on the merits of his physique? ???
and Ronnie was 9th in 1997 and 1st a year later , but if as you claim there is politics Flex Wheeler would have beat him in 1998 and they did the right thing.
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So what are you saying Ronnie didn't win on the merits of his physique? ???
and Ronnie was 9th in 1997 and 1st a year later , but if as you claim there is politics Flex Wheeler would have beat him in 1998 and they did the right thing.
what i'm saying is that he was a lot better than his placings showed early in his career, but he wasn't a name guy so he got fucked.
98 he won fair and square....I was there in a primo seat dead center, he killed everyone by a mile. The politics lie in the fact that Flex was actually ahead at some point in the contest.
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it is, and the pics and vids verify this time after time.
but you have two retards in this thread that do not agree beacause they don't undertand the sport or how physiques are judged. they post the criteria but then don't know how to apply it.
hence why they insist dorian is better but no one else agrees.
its that simple.
You are such a fucking idiot. Let me make this plain and simple for you- there are years in which a prime dorian would have beaten ronnie for the olympia. Does that make sense? You have a habit of saying WELL NOBODY COULD BEAT THIS 1998 RONNIE COLEMAN! Of course not, but he would have beaten a 2000 2001 2004 2005 ronnie for sure. Make sense?
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what i'm saying is that he was a lot better than his placings showed early in his career, but he wasn't a name guy so he got fucked.
98 he won fair and square....I was there in a primo seat dead center, he killed everyone by a mile. The politics lie in the fact that Flex was actually ahead at some point in the contest.
Ronnie was a ' name ' he beat Flex in 1996 this was a massive feat , he was placing second in a couple of shows this year , he won his first pro show in 95 by 97 he beat Levrone & Nasser another huge step , his main problem was his conditioning , he competed a lot in these years and his conditioning was hit-or-miss
again if politics were employed Ronnie would have placed second behind Flex and he would have to ' earn ' his turn but he was the better man , I think he was marked down in 98 because of his gyno.
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98 he won fair and square....I was there in a primo seat dead center, he killed everyone by a mile. The politics lie in the fact that Flex was actually ahead at some point in the contest.
thank you for verifying yet again what everyone knows and the pics and videos verify.
but ND claims the contest was super close and that ronnie barely beat flex because thats what the final number on the scorecard says.
::)
are you reading this ND? ::)
care to comment?
can't wait to here the excuses for this one... ::)
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I just think it's funny that Ronnie went from finishing no better than 6th to winning it the year after Dorian retired
not really funny when you look at the drastic improvement he made:
went from garbage to gold:
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thank you for verifying yet again what everyone knows and the pics and videos verify.
but ND claims the contest was super close and that ronnie barely beat flex because thats what the final number on the scorecard says.
::)
are you reading this ND? ::)
care to comment?
can't wait to here the excuses for this one... ::)
He has his opinion on the matter and even he admits there is NO right or wrong when it comes to opinions ;)
1998 was a VERY CLOSE contest pics and videos confirm this as does the final judging tally , THREE points kids that's insanely close you can't argue this.
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not really funny when you look at the drastic improvement he made:
went from garbage to gold:
Oh yeah real ' drastic ' more strawmen from you , a single pic and a lot of overstatements
this is 1997 compared to 1999 doesn't look very ' drastic ' does it? ;)
you can't argue these pictures all you can do is harp on his bigger quads as if this alone constitutes a drastic change , when in fact his waist line grew dramatically ;) and the striations in his delts dried up ( bigger softer delts i.e. less density )
Ronnie did improve but not to the degree you claim these pics speak volumes and you can't argue to the contrary
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I love posting these pics from 1997 they just destroy any argument you can muster about him being ' no where near he was at his prime '
enjoy ;)
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1998 was a VERY CLOSE contest pics and videos confirm this as does the final judging tally , THREE points kids that's insanely close you can't argue this.
see what I mean Groink? this guy is completely delusional.
he thinks it was an insanely close contest just because of what the scorecard read.. LMAO..
::)
if this is a three point difference, well, I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell LOL
classic ND stupidity.
never gets old.
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I love posting these pics from 1997 they just destroy any argument you can muster about him being ' no where near he was at his prime '
enjoy ;)
keep posting them
fact is, he looked good backstage in those shots but never looked that good onstage that year.
you don't seem to understand this? ??? ::)
sort of like dorian. looked way better back stage precontest than he EVER did onstage..
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Look a LOT like 1999 255lbs same small waist & hips , same awesome taper , same awesome back , same pecs , same gigantic arms and 9th place ;D
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not really.
1999 non contest pics blow that out of the water:
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keep posting them
fact is, he looked good backstage in those shots but never looked that good onstage that year.
you don't seem to understand this? ??? ::)
sort of like dorian. looked way better back stage precontest than he EVER did onstage..
retard these are ON-STAGE get it? on-stage moron
these are 1997 ON-STAGE compared to 1999 ON-STAGE
fuck me you're stupid
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see what I mean Groink? this guy is completely delusional.
he thinks it was an insanely close contest just because of what the scorecard read.. LMAO..
::)
if this is a three point difference, well, I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell LOL
classic ND stupidity.
never gets old.
' see someone agree with me ' lmfao how pathetic
oh and the old one pic ' see ' ploy hahahahahaha
I have 1998 on video and it was VERY CLOSE pics and video confirm this as does the scorecard ;)
keep contradicting history ;D
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funny how ND accuses people of posting strawmen arguments and what is he doing now.
fact is, compare these two videos
after you view them, you will shut up about ronnie 99 vs 97 thats for sure.
not even close. like night and day..
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1eyvt_ronnie-coleman-1997-olympia_sport
oh wait, I already posted these and you had to backpeddle because I embarrassed you yet again.
only a fool cannot see the drastic improvements in these videos.
probably why ND can't.. ::)
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not really.
1999 non contest pics blow that out of the water:
And these trample those ;) these pics are legendary and no one even cares about those , these pics sent shockwaves through the entire bodybuilding community and ate iconic still today , Ronnie's never had that impact
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I have 1998 on video and it was VERY CLOSE pics and video confirm this as does the scorecard
so you are honestly saying that pics confirm it?
LOL which pics are you looking at? ::)
this just keeps getting better and better.
please keeping posting ND. this is the fucking funniest delusional shit I have ever seen.
and thats really saying something given your past history.
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And these trample those ;) these pics are legendary and no one even cares about those , these pics sent shockwaves through the entire bodybuilding community and ate iconic still today , Ronnie's never had that impact
nope sorry: dorian owned at his own game:
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funny how ND accuses people of posting strawmen arguments and what is he doing now.
fact is, compare these two videos
after you view them, you will shut up about ronnie 99 vs 97 thats for sure.
not even close. like night and day..
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1eyvt_ronnie-coleman-1997-olympia_sport
oh wait, I already posted these and you had to backpeddle because I embarrassed you yet again.
only a fool cannot see the drastic improvements in these videos.
probably why ND can't.. ::)
All of your so called ' arguments ' are hinged on faulty logic , strawman , argument ad populum , enhanced pics , fake quotes , ignorance , etc , it's all you have
1997 and 1999 are NOT the same , he's better in 99 but not as much as you need him to be and again these are ON-STAGE moron , you can't refute these
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so you are honestly saying that pics confirm it?
LOL which pics are you looking at? ::)
this just keeps getting better and better.
please keeping posting ND. this is the fucking funniest delusional shit I have ever seen.
and thats really saying something given your past history.
hahahaha yeah and pics & video confirmed to YOU 1993 Dorian lost to Flex which unequivocally proves you don't know the first fucking thing when you look at a bodybuilding contest
I mean seriously how can anyone look at one of the most dominating Mr Olympia wins in the history of the contest and come to the conclusion , Dorian lost hahahahahahaha A contest in which Dorian was so far ahead of everyone that he wasn't even needed in the muscularity round , he was so far ahead of everyone it was redundant to include him , this never happened to Ronnie NOT even in 2003 !!
What kind of moron come to this conclusion? I'll tell you what kind YOU ;) this negates you from ever being taken seriously after looking at any footage , this prove you're retarded and anything you type in the rumblings of a bitter angry jealous little man who never took the time to actually learn how contests are judged and are only fueled by bias and hate
keep denying history you only prove me right ;D
1998 wasn't close and Dorian lost in 1993 gotcha :D ;)
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Look a LOT like 1999 255lbs same small waist & hips , same awesome taper , same awesome back , same pecs , same gigantic arms and 9th place ;D
Which is what I'm saying....you really think that deserved 9th place and Dorian should have won??
Please. i don't care how big his back is, he was missing an entire fucking arm...but he WON :P
Nah....there's no politics ::)
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check out this pic I found of ND and Dorian :-X
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Dorian%20Yates/NDDorian1.jpg)
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LOL the flower is right from his place of work LOL
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Which is what I'm saying....you really think that deserved 9th place and Dorian should have won??
Please. i don't care how big his back is, he was missing an entire fucking arm...but he WON :P
Nah....there's no politics ::)
So Ronnie should have won in 1997? ???
again if there were politics Flex would have won in 98 or Nasser
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check out this pic I found of ND and Dorian :-X
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Dorian%20Yates/NDDorian1.jpg)
dude you didn't put much effort into that :-\ you're reaching Sherif type lame with your pics :-\ and nice to see you in another Dorian based thread mentioning my name ;)
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So Ronnie should have won in 1997? ???
again if there were politics Flex would have won in 98 or Nasser
No I don't think he should have won, but he was better than 9th for sure.
No Fuckin Way Yates wins...you've said it yourself. POLITICS gave him the title in 97, he sure didn't get it for the physique he brought onstage
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dude you didn't put much effort into that you're reaching Sherif type lame with your pics and nice to see you in another Dorian based thread mentioning my name
show me an example of what constitutes "effort." I use paint b/c I don't have photoshop, lol. The reason I mentioned you is b/c I saw you did the same exact thing a couple pages back except with Hulkster. I was just playing along
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No I don't think he should have won, but he was better than 9th for sure.
No Fuckin Way Yates wins...you've said it yourself. POLITICS gave him the title in 97, he sure didn't get it for the physique he brought onstage
I don't care about 1997 , I never said politics gave him the title either. in some shots I look at him and think he looks like the winner than in others he looks like he should have lost either way Ronnie wasn't beating him ;D
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"I don't care about 1997"
"those pics don't count"
"you had to see dorian in person"
etc.
give a rest you moron.
your list of excuses is so fucking old, pathetic and irritating.
get some new material. ::)
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So Ronnie should have won in 1997?
god damn your reading comprehensions skill are fucking awful :-\
he is just saying that ronnie should have placed higher in 97, not necessarily that he should have won.
jesus. learn english please.
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god damn your reading comprehensions skill are fucking awful :-\
he is just saying that ronnie should have placed higher in 97, not necessarily that he should have won.
jesus. learn english please.
Moron did you see the question mark? that was posed as a question , learn the difference stupid
and you're the fucking retard who claimed Dorian lost in 1993 so it's not out realm of possibility that a Coleman fan would be under such insane delusions , but I gave him the benefit of the doubt with the question mark , you on the other hand retard removed all benefit of doubt hence forth with your insanely stupid and ignorant conclusions. ;)
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"I don't care about 1997"
"those pics don't count"
"you had to see dorian in person"
etc.
give a rest you moron.
your list of excuses is so fucking old, pathetic and irritating.
get some new material. ::)
lmfao get some new material says the dumbass who repeats his retard mantra in every Yates thread , IRONY ALERT
98 wasn't close , dorian lost in 93 , ronnie dominated in 01 , 99 is his best , shawn was robbed in 94 , dorian is the most overrated , ronnie was only being humble , pics and videos prove me right see ::)
heed your own advice moron , you're the dumb ass TROLLING in every Yates thread , you're the dumbass making tons of excuses for why Ronnie said he couldn't touch Dorian
keep trolling Hulkster it's all you know.
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I don't care about 1997 , I never said politics gave him the title either. in some shots I look at him and think he looks like the winner than in others he looks like he should have lost either way Ronnie wasn't beating him ;D
Oh....you're a fanboy who puts his head in the sand when confronted with the fact that politics exist and Dorian himself received a gift.......gotcha ;)
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Oh....you're a fanboy who puts his head in the sand when confronted with the fact that politics exist and Dorian himself received a gift.......gotcha ;)
Oh so your opinion now constitutes a fact? right ;) hypocrite much?
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has ronnie seen these pics
(http://i37.tinypic.com/288a646.jpg)
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Oh so your opinion now constitutes a fact? right ;) hypocrite much?
Please......it's universally acknowledged he shouldn't have won in 97, he looked horrible.
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Please......it's universally acknowledged he shouldn't have won in 97, he looked horrible.
Oh universally acknowledged lmfao so MASS opinion makes it a fact , hypocrite much Groink?
the masses do NOT judge contests the minority does so your appeals to numbers is a failure and always will be
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has ronnie seen these pics
(http://i37.tinypic.com/288a646.jpg)
Yes and he's stated many times that Dorian would beat him. ;)
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damn right dorian should not have won 97
no back or not
(http://www.fisicoculturismo.org/fotos/albums/nasser-el-sonbaty/fotos_nasser_el_sonbaty_034.jpg)
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Oh universally acknowledged lmfao so MASS opinion makes it a fact , hypocrite much Groink?
the masses do NOT judge contests the minority does so your appeals to numbers is a failure and always will be
I always heard that majority rules
millions of people vs bodybuilding judges (judging is a joke sometimes)
millions of people can't be wrong
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I always heard that majority rules
millions of people vs bodybuilding judges (judging is a joke sometimes)
millions of people can't be wrong
Oh boy lol at least your honest in your faulty logic , go look up argument ad populum and then come to your senses.
and who are the millions? ??? ??? and who appointed you their spokesmen ? ???
this isn't American Idol , the audience doesn't get to choose who is the winner.
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damn right dorian should not have won 97
no back or not
(http://www.fisicoculturismo.org/fotos/albums/nasser-el-sonbaty/fotos_nasser_el_sonbaty_034.jpg)
back or no back , conditioning or no conditioning who cares
like I said give Nasser 1997 it doesn't mean much to me , he couldn't touch Dorian at his best and neither could Ronnie ;D
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Yes and he's stated many times that Dorian would beat him. ;)
and he has also stated several times that he would win.
but you choose to sweep these quotes under the carpet just like you do with all the pics and videos that show how much better Ronnie was at his peak..
::)
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go look up argument ad populum and then come to your senses.
you should do the same.
because there much validity in appealing to the masses when the masses are made up of experts in the feild. this is a valid case of the ad populum argument that applies quite literally to ronnie vs dorian.
you have been taught this several times, but like everything else in your life, you never pick up anything.
its just the same misinformation over and over again.
you don't learn or correct yourself ever.
its sad. not surprising. but sad.
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Oh boy lol at least your honest in your faulty logic , go look up argument ad populum and then come to your senses.
and who are the millions? ??? ??? and who appointed you their spokesmen ? ???
this isn't American Idol , the audience doesn't get to choose who is the winner.
something about an audience chanting "RONNIE RONNIE!" convinces me that the masses love big ron, ask groink I'm sure heard them loud and clear
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something about an audience chanting "RONNIE RONNIE!" convinces me that the masses love big ron, ask groink I'm sure heard them loud and clear
they chanted ronnie in 07 too and look what he got.
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Could Dorian beat that? Hell, if Gunter did, of course! ;D
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=295017.0;attach=335444;image)
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and he has also stated several times that he would win.
but you choose to sweep these quotes under the carpet just like you do with all the pics and videos that show how much better Ronnie was at his peak..
::)
no he didn't liar making shit up again huh? so me where he said he would beat Dorian ' several times ' liar
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you should do the same.
because there much validity in appealing to the masses when the masses are made up of experts in the feild. this is a valid case of the ad populum argument that applies quite literally to ronnie vs dorian.
you have been taught this several times, but like everything else in your life, you never pick up anything.
its just the same misinformation over and over again.
you don't learn or correct yourself ever.
its sad. not surprising. but sad.
the masses are most certainly NOT experts they're ignorant morons such as yourself , a POPULAR OPINION doesn't prove a fact it proves it's popular stupid , still having problems grasping the fundamentals aren't you.
the MASSES do NOT judge contests moron the minority does so according to your warped logic any judgement they render is void if the masses 'POPULAR OPINION ' is greater ::)
there is NO way in fucking hell you went to ' university ' none , you lie about quotes I'm sure you're lying about that too , because you are hands down one of the dumbest people on the internet
and to further showcase just how fucking retarded you are the MASSES all agree 2001 Arnold Classic is Ronnie's best showing , so by your retard logic they're all right , yet YOU being the moron you are still continue to dismiss the real experts ( not fanboys from the interwebs ) and claim all of them are wrong , Ronnie 1999 Mr Olympia is his best ;) when in fact Ronnie himself has stated 1998 was and more specifically because his conditioning was better
summary - a bunch of fanboys are ' experts ' popular opinion is truth only when it serves YOUR purpose and real experts are all wrong when they contradict your bullshit , like I said there is no way you went to university if by some act of God they needed to fill a mandatory for people with mentally disabilities I tale that back because you certainly fit this category ;)
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Could Dorian beat that? Hell, if Gunter did, of course! ;D
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=295017.0;attach=335444;image)
Coleman being totally owned by a third-rate bodybuilder. Yates annihilated Gunter in the 90s and Gunter owned Coleman in 2002. Need we say more?
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How many f'n threads you clowns need?
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How many f'n threads you clowns need?
As many as it takes to settle this argument once and for all! ;D
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As many as it takes to settle this argument once and for all! ;D
Ronnie settled this , angry fan boys just can't accept his decision ;D
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Ronnie settled this , angry fan boys just can't accept his decision ;D
Ronnie never said Dorian was better than him.
What he said was "he would have kept on winning"...those of us with an objective point of view and a brain read between the lines ;)
he won in 97 which was a joke...so I can see where Ronnie would say that. If he can win with a torn bi and tri, apparently the physique you bring on stage isn't the only factor
BTW when asked if Ronnie would beat him, Dorian said "yeah, i guess he would".....but that doesn't count in ND-land :P
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Ronnie never said Dorian was better than him.
What he said was "he would have kept on winning"...those of us with an objective point of view and a brain read between the lines ;)
he won in 97 which was a joke...so I can see where Ronnie would say that. If he can win with a torn bi and tri, apparently the physique you bring on stage isn't the only factor
BTW when asked if Ronnie would beat him, Dorian said "yeah, i guess he would".....but that doesn't count in ND-land :P
The old semantics game huh? Ronnie never said Dorian wasn't better than him , he didn't say a lot of things but like I said angry fan boys hates that Ronnie conceded to Dorian multiple times , when he said he was robbed by the system when Gunther beat him and Jay Cutler would need to be re-born with better genetics to beat him , yet never uttered anything close to that concerning Dorian ever wonder why?
And you never elaborated on how it's a fact Dorian lost the 1997 Mr Olympia and how your opinion somehow becomes fact when you chastised others for claiming the same , I'm still waiting for your answer Mr Hypocrite ;)
And the Dorian quote isn't accurate , you omitted the part we he said I guess , I don't know that's indecisive this isn't learn the difference ;)
Special Ed : Ronnie if Dorian competed in 1998 would you have smoked him?
Ronnie Coleman : NO I think he would have kept on winning as long as he competed I don't think he would have lost.
no indecision concise and right to the point ( let me preface this by saying just because he says so doesn't mean it's true , however his opinion on the subject sure as fuck trumps any fanboys )
Taken out of FLEX nov 1999, page 90. interview by jim schmaltz with ronnie before the 99 Olympia.
Jim: What would have happened last year if Dorian Yates (recently retired winner of 6 straight Mr. Olympias) had competed?
Ronnie: Dorian would have won again.
Jim: You think so?
Ronnie: I know so. Dorian has a big physique - hard- and he's been the man to beat, and its hard to knock the champion off the block. He's a big guy and has a lot going for him. He overcame so many adversities, like his torn biceps, I couldnt see too much else stopping him.
This is even more definitive , Jim: You think so? Ronnie: I know so. and he elaborates on why , Dorian has a big physique ( muscular bulk ) hard ( density ) and he was the man everyone tried to beat , again he references his muscular bulk and he has a lot going for him , not one mention of politics like the 2002 Show of Strength , not one mention of him not being in his league like Jay Cutler
It absolutely kills ANYTHING any fanboy can type and it absolutely kills them to see their hero admit that he feels Dorian would beat him ;D after all Dorian is a guy who routinely beat him for years on end and Dorian was the most dominate bodybuilder , Ronnie is very smart for seeing who is the better of the two ;)
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Coleman being totally owned by a third-rate bodybuilder
funny, it happened to dorian all the time.
people that placed out of the top 10 owned his ass:
milos placed 13th and he crushes dorian in the relaxed round. LOL
explain this one moron... ::)
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no he didn't liar making shit up again huh? so me where he said he would beat Dorian ' several times ' liar
1. he said it on bodybuilding live posted here a few years ago.
2. he said it on a bb.com interview when asked who would win if he, arnold and dorian stood onstage and competed at their very best. He said he would. the link has been posted many times before.
now, who is making shit up? ::)
new people take note: this is what ND does. lies and hopes that new people who don't know any better will belive him.. ::)
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funny, it happened to dorian all the time.
people that placed out of the top 10 owned his ass:
milos placed 13th and he crushes dorian in the relaxed round. LOL
explain this one moron... ::)
Milos didn't beat Dorian dumb ass , lets entertain for the sake of argument Milos is beating Dorian in the standing relaxed , Gunther beat Ronnie is ALL of his poses and won the contest , so Hulkster fail again ;)
And please recall stupid , all rounds are physique rounds , meaning is Milos beating Dorian in that pose in muscular bulk? NO is he beating him in balance & proportion? NO is he beating Dorian in density & dryness? NO , he's beating Dorian from an aesthetic point of view but he's not beating Dorian anywhere in the criteria so Hulkster fail yet again ;)
go learn how contests are judged before you comment or run the risk of being made to look like a complete fool by me ;D
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there is NO way in fucking hell you went to ' university ' none
I love how you are so intimidated by educated people like me because you know you are not as smart as we are and it drives you crazy.
its great.
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The old semantics game huh? Ronnie never said Dorian wasn't better than him , he didn't say a lot of things but like I said angry fan boys hates that Ronnie conceded to Dorian multiple times , when he said he was robbed by the system when Gunther beat him and Jay Cutler would need to be re-born with better genetics to beat him , yet never uttered anything close to that concerning Dorian ever wonder why?
And you never elaborated on how it's a fact Dorian lost the 1997 Mr Olympia and how your opinion somehow becomes fact when you chastised others for claiming the same , I'm still waiting for your answer Mr Hypocrite ;)
And the Dorian quote isn't accurate , you omitted the part we he said I guess , I don't know that's indecisive this isn't learn the difference ;)
Special Ed : Ronnie if Dorian competed in 1998 would you have smoked him?
Ronnie Coleman : NO I think he would have kept on winning as long as he competed I don't think he would have lost.
no indecision concise and right to the point ( let me preface this by saying just because he says so doesn't mean it's true , however his opinion on the subject sure as fuck trumps any fanboys )
Taken out of FLEX nov 1999, page 90. interview by jim schmaltz with ronnie before the 99 Olympia.
Jim: What would have happened last year if Dorian Yates (recently retired winner of 6 straight Mr. Olympias) had competed?
Ronnie: Dorian would have won again.
Jim: You think so?
Ronnie: I know so. Dorian has a big physique - hard- and he's been the man to beat, and its hard to knock the champion off the block. He's a big guy and has a lot going for him. He overcame so many adversities, like his torn biceps, I couldnt see too much else stopping him.
This is even more definitive , Jim: You think so? Ronnie: I know so. and he elaborates on why , Dorian has a big physique ( muscular bulk ) hard ( density ) and he was the man everyone tried to beat , again he references his muscular bulk and he has a lot going for him , not one mention of politics like the 2002 Show of Strength , not one mention of him not being in his league like Jay Cutler
It absolutely kills ANYTHING any fanboy can type and it absolutely kills them to see their hero admit that he feels Dorian would beat him ;D after all Dorian is a guy who routinely beat him for years on end and Dorian was the most dominate bodybuilder , Ronnie is very smart for seeing who is the better of the two ;)
Well that's because Ronnie gives an honest answer to the question, whereas Dorian is a douche with a VERY high opinion of himself.
That's why he's always getting his eyes blackened :D
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1. he said it on bodybuilding live posted here a few years ago.
2. he said it on a bb.com interview when asked who would win if he, arnold and dorian stood onstage and competed at their very best. He said he would. the link has been posted many times before.
now, who is making shit up? ::)
new people take note: this is what ND does. lies and hopes that new people who don't know any better will belive him.. ::)
BULLSHIT notice as usual you can't back up a single fucking claim ;)
the bb.com interview he NEVER once says he would beat them , you have comprehension issues well documented on this site , when posed the question he NEVER once said he would win liar
it's very simple to own you dummy ;)
Q. This is my last question for you Ronnie, and it's quite "hypothetical" but I believe it is a good one. Let's say that it would be possible to have a bodybuilding contest where the only competitors would be you, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Lee Haney, and Dorian Yates, and all of you in their prime condition. Who do you believe would win?
R.C. Come on now, this is the age of Ronnie Coleman who else would win... but I couldn't have beat them in their hey days.
NO WHERE does he say he would beat Dorian liar then admits he couldn't beat them in their hay-day , when was Dorian's hey-day? the same as Ronnies so in essence he's stating yet again he couldn't beat him ;D
how pathetic can you get? ' new people please side with me I'm begging , please ' Mr made-up quotes , Mr Photoshopped pics , Mr Ronnie said way back that he would beat Dorian yet you can provide any source and this is the absolute first time you EVER claimed that and if it were true you would have been using that all along liar ;)
new people please side with me Ronnie doesn't lmfao
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Well that's because Ronnie gives an honest answer to the question, whereas Dorian is a douche with a VERY high opinion of himself.
That's why he's always getting his eyes blackened :D
When you're the best it's not arrogance it's confidence ;) Dorian has great respect for Ronnie 0 and Haney ) and vice-a-versa
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BULLSHIT notice as usual you can't back up a single fucking claim ;)
the bb.com interview he NEVER once says he would beat them , you have comprehension issues well documented on this site , when posed the question he NEVER once said he would win liar
it's very simple to own you dummy ;)
Q. This is my last question for you Ronnie, and it's quite "hypothetical" but I believe it is a good one. Let's say that it would be possible to have a bodybuilding contest where the only competitors would be you, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Lee Haney, and Dorian Yates, and all of you in their prime condition. Who do you believe would win?
R.C. Come on now, this is the age of Ronnie Coleman who else would win... but I couldn't have beat them in their hey days.
NO WHERE does he say he would beat Dorian liar then admits he couldn't beat them in their hay-day , when was Dorian's hey-day? the same as Ronnies so in essence he's stating yet again he couldn't beat him ;D
how pathetic can you get? ' new people please side with me I'm begging , please ' Mr made-up quotes , Mr Photoshopped pics , Mr Ronnie said way back that he would beat Dorian yet you can provide any source and this is the absolute first time you EVER claimed that and if it were true you would have been using that all along liar ;)
new people please side with me Ronnie doesn't lmfao
He was being respectful you douche...you seriously think a prime Ronnie Coleman wouldn't beat Arnold and Haney?
it's funny how myopic you are when it comes to this stuff.....it's obvious what he was doing there, and you know damn well, but god forbid you actually say it on getbig ::)
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I can not believe you nut sakcs are still arguing over whos better ::)
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I love how you are so intimidated by educated people like me because you know you are not as smart as we are and it drives you crazy.
its great.
Educated? not in terms of debate or how to form a cognizant informed opinion on the subject of competitive bodybuilding. Your use of the most basic and faulty logic proves your ignorance, you use almost every faulty argument and you compliment them with enhanced photos and outright made up quotes and there always the tinge of bitterness from your ad hominem attacks
the difference between you and I Hulkster is , you've already conceded I'm smart and you will never hear me say that about you , because you're not ;)
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it's funny how myopic you are when it comes to this stuff.....it's obvious what he was doing there, and you know damn well, but god forbid you actually say it on getbig
yup. ND fears educated people and he fears admitting what we all know to be true.
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Calves, decent midsection, conditioning?
His calves are actually okay here. Not Yates level, but not too small, and he doesn't need better calves than Yates to be better than Yates. Conditioning isn't a body part, and I wouldn't say he's "missing" a midsection, although no it's not the greatest here. Although pretty good in a number of shots. Interesting this thread creates such a stir even though 2000 is considered Ronnie's 4th best year? 5th best year?
(http://getbig.com/pics/olympia/2000/pre/ronnie02.jpg)
(http://getbig.com/pics/olympia/2000/pre/ronnie01.jpg)
(http://getbig.com/pics/olympia/2000/finals/final03.jpg)
(http://getbig.com/pics/olympia/2000/finals/after04.jpg)
Recall Nasser used to dwarf Dorian from the front.
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He was being respectful you douche...you seriously think a prime Ronnie Coleman wouldn't beat Arnold and Haney?
it's funny how myopic you are when it comes to this stuff.....it's obvious what he was doing there, and you know damn well, but god forbid you actually say it on getbig ::)
Where did I ever claim he wasn't being respectful? I'm proving my point where Hulkster claimed he would beat Dorian and that's an outright lie and once again Mr poor comprehension skills please find me where I ever once claimed he couldn't beat Haney or Arnold , you my friend are drawing your own conclusions
he was in fact being diplomatic however he did NOT say he would beat Dorian , that's a lie.
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its funny, what ronnie said was 100% accurate.
in terms of physiques at their best, he would destroy Haney, Dorian, Arnold et al.
but if he stepped on stage during their time looking like he did in 98/9 or the AC, would be be able to overcome the politics of their reigns?
given with the bulshit political wins of Arnold in 80, Dorian in 94, 97 and Haney in 90, its doubtful.
and he knows it.
Ronnie is much smarter than ND too. that much is very clear.
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yup. ND fears educated people and he fears admitting what we all know to be true.
Where's the educated people ? ???
all I see is guys who claim Dorian lost the most dominated Mr Olympia in history , and Ronnie has better detailed calves than Dorian , and Ronnie dominated a contest he lost the whole prejudging in and how a contest separated by just 3 points isn't close , where are these educated people? because all I see if some very dumb statements here :D
lol@educated
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Interesting this thread creates such a stir even though 2000 is considered Ronnie's 4th best year?
not really because everyone other than ND and Cockwave knows that even Ronnie's fourth best is still much better than most of dorian's years, esp. the post tear ones..
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Where did I ever claim he wasn't being respectful? I'm proving my point where Hulkster claimed he would beat Dorian and that's an outright lie and once again Mr poor comprehension skills please find me where I ever once claimed he couldn't beat Haney or Arnold , you my friend are drawing your own conclusions
he was in fact being diplomatic however he did NOT say he would beat Dorian , that's a lie.
so when you quoted that statement, you admit that he's being diplomatic when it comes to Arnold and Lee, but it's the truth when it comes to Dorian ??
how does that work exactly ?
Also you admit that he's being diplomatic here....but when he said Dorian would keep on winning, he meant that...right? ::)
talk about cherry-picking what you want, and drawing your own conclusions ;)
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Oh yeah real ' drastic ' more strawmen from you , a single pic and a lot of overstatements
this is 1997 compared to 1999 doesn't look very ' drastic ' does it? ;)
you can't argue these pictures all you can do is harp on his bigger quads as if this alone constitutes a drastic change , when in fact his waist line grew dramatically ;) and the striations in his delts dried up ( bigger softer delts i.e. less density )
Ronnie did improve but not to the degree you claim these pics speak volumes and you can't argue to the contrary
Bwahaha, I always put it to you that your argument wouldn't convince Kevin, Flex, Nasser and all the other guys he leapfrogged. Clearly he improved enough to beat these guys. Conditioning from the back being the main thing. Glutes glutes glutes, and hams. Delt width also made a difference. But we needn't get into semantics, the FACT is he leapfrogged 7 other competitors between 97 and 98. I wish Shawn Ray was still here to reiterate his Chad argument. Not that we need it, but he's also amongst the leapfrogged pros, so respectfully I trust his first hand informed opinion more than your own on this particular point.
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its funny, what ronnie said was 100% accurate.
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Hey liar where did he say he would beat Dorian? where? ???
and Ronnie is accurate when you want him to be huh Mr Hypocrite? when Ronnie said on multiple occasions 1998 was his best Olympia you called him a liar ( ironic ) when he said it was his best because his conditioning was perfect , you once again claimed " Ronnie lies about everything " he likes about being a cop , about being injured , about taking steroids LMMFAO now Ronnie is right when you're trying very hard to bend his statement to fit your point of view
HYPOCRITE ;)
summary: Ronnie is right when you think he is and wrong every time he says he couldn't beat Dorian lol
someone said something about ' educated ' ;)
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Hey liar where did he say he would beat Dorian? where?
uh. right in the interview? ::)
do you not understand english?
when asked who would win if all of them stepped onstage in their primes he specifically said:
Come on now, this is the age of Ronnie Coleman who else would win
jesus.
no wonder you fear educated people. we can read and understand english. you can't. :-\
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Bwahaha, I always put it to you that your argument wouldn't convince Kevin, Flex, Nasser and all the other guys he leapfrogged. Clearly he improved enough to beat these guys. Conditioning from the back being the main thing. Glutes glutes glutes, and hams. Delt width also made a difference. But we needn't get into semantics, the FACT is he leapfrogged 7 other competitors between 97 and 98. I wish Shawn Ray was still here to reiterate his Chad argument. Not that we need it, but he's also amongst the leapfrogged pros, so respectfully I trust his first hand informed opinion more than your own on this particular point.
there is no debate about this. it only exists in ND's fucked up head.
I posted the two videos (97 and 99) and the difference is staggering.
ND pretends not to see much of a difference just to fit his agenda.
thats all. ::)
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its funny, what ronnie said was 100% accurate.
in terms of physiques at their best, he would destroy Haney, Dorian, Arnold et al.
but if he stepped on stage during their time looking like he did in 98/9 or the AC, would be be able to overcome the politics of their reigns?
given with the bulshit political wins of Arnold in 80, Dorian in 94, 97 and Haney in 90, its doubtful.
and he knows it.
Ronnie is much smarter than ND too. that much is very clear.
BTW, generally people who are educated know the rules and guidelines there particular hobby or sport goes by, and educated people follow/respect said rules. The fact that you bitch and moan about judging and politics. Educated people accept that is how things are. You applaude the judging when it goes your way and say its politics when it doesnt. So clearly, you dont abide by the standards and guidelines set into place, so youre are the uneducated one.
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Where did I ever claim he wasn't being respectful? I'm proving my point where Hulkster claimed he would beat Dorian and that's an outright lie and once again Mr poor comprehension skills please find me where I ever once claimed he couldn't beat Haney or Arnold , you my friend are drawing your own conclusions
he was in fact being diplomatic however he did NOT say he would beat Dorian , that's a lie.
Oh brother he lists Haney, Arnold and DORIAN all together and says they'd all beat him in their eras. If you think for a second he believes Dorian could beat him in 2003 you need your head examined. Of course you will claim this hilarious childish lie forever, but not being 12 myself I will simply sigh and continue with my own rational thoughts. Lest ye not forget Dorian also said Ronnie would probably beat him. Means nothing. Cease using in debate.
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Bwahaha, I always put it to you that your argument wouldn't convince Kevin, Flex, Nasser and all the other guys he leapfrogged. Clearly he improved enough to beat these guys. Conditioning from the back being the main thing. Glutes glutes glutes, and hams. Delt width also made a difference. But we needn't get into semantics, the FACT is he leapfrogged 7 other competitors between 97 and 98. I wish Shawn Ray was still here to reiterate his Chad argument. Not that we need it, but he's also amongst the leapfrogged pros, so respectfully I trust his first hand informed opinion more than your own on this particular point.
Out of all the guys that Ronnie leapfrogged over how many of them beat Dorian? NONE Ronnie did improve in my opinion not enough to beat Dorian and apparently not in his own opinion either.
conditioning from the back is NOT the main thing even entertaining it were true Ronnie was better ( which he's not ) the main thing is the entire criteria not part of it.
and you apparently don't trust Ronnie's first hand informed opinion when he said Dorian would win but hey what are you gonna say?
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uh. right in the interview? ::)
do you not understand english?
when asked who would win if all of them stepped onstage in their primes he specifically said:
jesus.
no wonder you fear educated people. we can read and understand english. you can't. :-\
NO WHERE does he say he would beat Dorian , you're a liar with comprehension problems , he eludes to it , he leave you to draw your own conclusions , but he never committed to an answer until these quotes ;)
Special Ed : Ronnie of Dorian competed in 1998 would you have smoked him?
Ronnie Coleman : NO I think he would have kept on winning as long as he competed I don't think he would have lost.
Taken out of FLEX nov 1999, page 90. interview by jim schmaltz with ronnie before the 99 Olympia.
Jim: What would have happened last year if Dorian Yates (recently retired winner of 6 straight Mr. Olympias) had competed?
Ronnie: Dorian would have won again.
Jim: You think so?
Ronnie: I know so. Dorian has a big physique - hard- and he's been the man to beat, and its hard to knock the champion off the block. He's a big guy and has a lot going for him. He overcame so many adversities, like his torn biceps, I couldnt see too much else stopping him.
NO speculation , leaves nothing to the imagination , thanks for playing Mr Hypocrite who calls Ronnie a liar and then claims he's 100% right ;D
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Out of all the guys that Ronnie leapfrogged over how many of them beat Dorian? NONE Ronnie did improve in my opinion not enough to beat Dorian and apparently not in his own opinion either.
conditioning from the back is NOT the main thing even entertaining it were true Ronnie was better ( which he's not ) the main thing is the entire criteria not part of it.
and you apparently don't trust Ronnie's first hand informed opinion when he said Dorian would win but hey what are you gonna say?
And like others have also pointed out...he also said Lee Haney and Arnold would beat him too...he's obviously being respectful to his predecessors, but you will cherry pick the bits about Dorian as fact, but at the same time you agree he was being respectful when it comes to the other two.....Again, how does that work?? ::)
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so when you quoted that statement, you admit that he's being diplomatic when it comes to Arnold and Lee, but it's the truth when it comes to Dorian ??
how does that work exactly ?
Also you admit that he's being diplomatic here....but when he said Dorian would keep on winning, he meant that...right? ::)
talk about cherry-picking what you want, and drawing your own conclusions ;)
I'll tell you exactly how it works , Haney and Arnold NEVER beat Ronnie , Dorian did , see simple ;D
in fact Dorian beat Ronnie for years , it's not out of the realm of possibility he would do it again
I'm not drawing my own conclusions I'm going on exactly what he said , YOU drew your own conclusions when you decided to decipher what Ronnie really meant
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Oh brother he lists Haney, Arnold and DORIAN all together and says they'd all beat him in their eras. If you think for a second he believes Dorian could beat him in 2003 you need your head examined. Of course you will claim this hilarious childish lie forever, but not being 12 myself I will simply sigh and continue with my own rational thoughts. Lest ye not forget Dorian also said Ronnie would probably beat him. Means nothing. Cease using in debate.
There you go speaking for Ronnie , you put way , way to much stock into 2003 even Ronnie himself says it ain't his best , don't presume to speak for Ronnie
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Oh brother he lists Haney, Arnold and DORIAN all together and says they'd all beat him in their eras. If you think for a second he believes Dorian could beat him in 2003 you need your head examined. Of course you will claim this hilarious childish lie forever, but not being 12 myself I will simply sigh and continue with my own rational thoughts. Lest ye not forget Dorian also said Ronnie would probably beat him. Means nothing. Cease using in debate.
Ronnie also said he should have won at the 06 Mr Olympia (the year he lost to Jay Cutler). It's funny that ND likes to ignore this yet reposts the quote from Ronnie saying Dorian would beat him as some sort of 'proof' that Ronnie is fit to judge contests
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I'll tell you exactly how it works , Haney and Arnold NEVER beat Ronnie , Dorian did , see simple ;D
in fact Dorian beat Ronnie for years , it's not out of the realm of possibility he would do it again
I'm not drawing my own conclusions I'm going on exactly what he said , YOU drew your own conclusions when you decided to decipher what Ronnie really meant
Has nothing to do with what you just said....you are the typical goalpost- moving fanboy.
It's very difficult to take anything you say seriously when any time someone points out a valid inconsistency in your argument, you ignore it and post something irrelevant
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And like others have also pointed out...he also said Lee Haney and Arnold would beat him too...he's obviously being respectful to his predecessors, but you will cherry pick the bits about Dorian as fact, but at the same time you agree he was being respectful when it comes to the other two.....Again, how does that work?? ::)
In fact he didn't say Arnold and Haney would beat him , he said he couldn't beat them in their era , whatever that means ??? and FYI Ronnie's era was Dorian's era they competed at the same time and the difference again which you can't seem to grasp is , Lee Haney and Arnold Schwarzenegger NEVER beat Ronnie , Dorian did
the fact is Ronnie never said he would beat them , he left it open for people to draw their own conclusions , he was being respectful to former champs HOWEVER subsequent to this quote he's gone on record as saying he felt Dorian would beat him , no eluding , no speculation , it was pretty definitive and fanboys have been trying to speak for him ever since.
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Has nothing to do with what you just said....you are the typical goalpost- moving fanboy.
It's very difficult to take anything you say seriously when any time someone points out a valid inconsistency in your argument, you ignore it and post something irrelevant
talk about irony , Mr It's a fact that Dorian lost the 1997 Mr Olympia
there is NO valid inconsistency , he never claimed he would beat Dorian that's a lie.
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talk about irony , Mr It's a fact that Dorian lost the 1997 Mr Olympia
quoted for preservation ;D
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In fact he didn't say Arnold and Haney would beat him , he said he couldn't beat them in their era , whatever that means ??? and FYI Ronnie's era was Dorian's era they competed at the same time and the difference again which you can't seem to grasp is , Lee Haney and Arnold Schwarzenegger NEVER beat Ronnie , Dorian did
the fact is Ronnie never said he would beat them , he left it open for people to draw their own conclusions , he was being respectful to former champs HOWEVER subsequent to this quote he's gone on record as saying he felt Dorian would beat him , no eluding , no speculation , it was pretty definitive and fanboys have been trying to speak for him ever since.
So when he said that he would lose to Haney and Arnold, he's being respectful...but when asked about Yates, he meant that shit??
Who's trying to speak for him here?? ;)
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talk about irony , Mr It's a fact that Dorian lost the 1997 Mr Olympia
there is NO valid inconsistency , he never claimed he would beat Dorian that's a lie.
when did i say that? are you on drugs or something??
I said he shouldn't have won, something YOU and just about everyone else agrees on ;)
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Ronnie also said he should have won at the 06 Mr Olympia (the year he lost to Jay Cutler). It's funny that ND likes to ignore this yet reposts the quote from Ronnie saying Dorian would beat him as some sort of 'proof' that Ronnie is fit to judge contests
Ronnie's said a lot of contradictory things , and you're right Ronnie isn't fit to judge contests HOWEVER that's not the point , the point is his opinion trumps ANY of yours it's more valid than ANY of yours and it doesn't mean it's true but boy people absolutely hate that he admits he wouldn't beat Dorian lol it's amazing
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=180354;image)
What was that about people trying to say Ronnie was as conditioned as Dorian?
Ronnie who?
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Has nothing to do with what you just said....you are the typical goalpost- moving fanboy.
It's very difficult to take anything you say seriously when any time someone points out a valid inconsistency in your argument, you ignore it and post something irrelevant
he doesn't understand the inconsistency that we point out. that takes brains.
so he just moves on. ignorance is bliss.
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So when he said that he would lose to Haney and Arnold, he's being respectful...but when asked about Yates, he meant that shit??
Who's trying to speak for him here?? ;)
I'm not that's the best part , he said he couldn't beat them in their ears , Ronnie's era was Dorians ;)
that's three times he said he couldn't beat Dorian ;D
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=180354;image)
What was that about people trying to say Ronnie was as conditioned as Dorian?
Ronnie who?
Ronnie Coleman ;)
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=180354;image)
What was that about people trying to say Ronnie was as conditioned as Dorian?
Ronnie who?
ronnie coleman:
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quoted for preservation ;D
I honestly don't care about 97 , like I've said in some pics he looks like the winner and in others he doesn't , give it to Nasser it doesn't change the fact that he couldn't touch Dorian at his best
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I honestly don't care about 97 , like I've said in some pics he looks like the winner and in others he doesn't , give it to Nasser it doesn't change the fact that he couldn't touch Dorian at his best
Yeah, the pics where you can't see his left arm :)
LOL....you are such a fanboy it's beyond words. just like when the Nasser turds say he "wasn't serious" about his last few contests.
gotta take the good with the bad ;)
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Ronnie's said a lot of contradictory things , and you're right Ronnie isn't fit to judge contests HOWEVER that's not the point , the point is his opinion trumps ANY of yours it's more valid than ANY of yours and it doesn't mean it's true but boy people absolutely hate that he admits he wouldn't beat Dorian lol it's amazing
wrong, either Ronnie is fit to judge contests or he's not. Either he deserved to win the 06 Mr Olympia or he didn't
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wrong, either Ronnie is fit to judge contests or he's not. Either he deserved to win the 06 Mr Olympia or he didn't
I just said he's NOT fit to judge contests did you miss that part? ??? he's more than fit to give his opinion on who would beat who and his opinion on this subject sure as fuck crushes anything you have to say on the subject.
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Yeah, the pics where you can't see his left arm :)
LOL....you are such a fanboy it's beyond words. just like when the Nasser turds say he "wasn't serious" about his last few contests.
gotta take the good with the bad ;)
Like I said , I don't think Dorian should have won in 1997 but Nasser didn't beat him ;)
Nasser wins some poses , Dorian others , you have to KO the champ he didn't end of story.
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Ronnie Coleman ;)
Ronnie comes close that year to Dorian in terms of conditioning but he wasn't this big while carrying that type of conditioning ;)
269lbs with insane density & dryness , trumps 249lbs with insane density & dryness and to add insult to injury Dorian has better balance & proportion and he's more complete
Dorian for the win by armbar ;)
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BTW, generally people who are educated know the rules and guidelines there particular hobby or sport goes by, and educated people follow/respect said rules. The fact that you bitch and moan about judging and politics. Educated people accept that is how things are. You applaude the judging when it goes your way and say its politics when it doesnt. So clearly, you dont abide by the standards and guidelines set into place, so youre are the uneducated one.
ouch Hulkster = owed again
lol educated
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I just said he's NOT fit to judge contests did you miss that part? he's more than fit to give his opinion on who would beat who and his opinion on this subject sure as fuck crushes anything you have to say on the subject.
my, how short your memory is!
you just said Ronnie's opinion about who would win is more valid even though you just admitted he's not fit to judge contests :-\
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its funny how ND keeps going back to precontest gym shots of dorian (the only ones where he actually looks good) as ammo against ronnie.
know why? because the added offseason size makes his arms look less puny:
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Dorian Yates laughs at these shenanigans. Ronnie wasn't nuttin but a peanut for him. 7 times or so?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=184544;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=184543;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=184548;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=184545;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=184547;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=184549;image)
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when did i say that? are you on drugs or something??
no, he just has serious english comprehension problems.
after all, he is still denying ronnie said he would beat dorian in his arnold/haney/dorian quote.
even though he answered in a rhetorical question, ND doesn't understand this language technique, so he denies it ::).
this debate would be so much better with someone who understands english.
like the truce thread - it was much better without him.
the people that took his place were much smarter and it made the debate so much better.
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my, how short your memory is!
you just said Ronnie's opinion about who would win is more valid even though you just admitted he's not fit to judge contests :-\
More valid certainly than YOU or anyone on this board.
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its funny how ND keeps going back to precontest gym shots of dorian (the only ones where he actually looks good) as ammo against ronnie.
know why? because the added offseason size makes his arms look less puny:
I keep going back to the precontest gym shots because I feel ( as well as many others ) it's his best showing. the whole debate is who at THEIR BEST would beat whom
Dorian 1993 precontest and Ronnie 1998/2001 ;)
and the pic you just posted proves how much better he looks compared to Ronnie and he's not even at his best , epic backfire ;) and even offseason Ronnie's calves look like Ms Olympias :-X
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the whole debate is who at THEIR BEST would beat whom
yes.
and ronnie said he would beat dorian, haney and arnold if all were onstage at their best too.
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when did i say that? are you on drugs or something??
I said he shouldn't have won, something YOU and just about everyone else agrees on ;)
Oh....you're a fanboy who puts his head in the sand when confronted with the fact that politics exist and Dorian himself received a gift.......gotcha
right here is where you claimed it was a fact politics exist and Dorian received a gift in 1997 , so once again Mr Hypocrite when does your opinion become a fact? especially considering you were bitching at others for trying to pass theirs off as facts which wasn't even the case to begin with.
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Perfect balance, head to toe. And he doesnt even need those amazing arms of Ronnie Coleman.
Not to mention, huge, sliced, dry, propotioned, Only weak point is quad separation.
And this is his weakest pose. :o
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=221426;image)
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yes.
and ronnie said he would beat dorian, haney and arnold if all were onstage at their best too.
hahahahah liar no he didn't in fact he said he couldn't beat Dorian in his era which was Ronnie's era ;) owned again by Ronnie
and like I've stated Mr Hypocrite , Ronnie is a liar ( according to you ) he lies about everything , being a cop , being injured , winning in 06 , NOW you need Ronnie to be right so he's no longer a liar lol
it's easy to expose your bullshit
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no, he just has serious english comprehension problems.
after all, he is still denying ronnie said he would beat dorian in his arnold/haney/dorian quote.
even though he answered in a rhetorical question, ND doesn't understand this language technique, so he denies it ::).
this debate would be so much better with someone who understands english.
like the truce thread - it was much better without him.
the people that took his place were much smarter and it made the debate so much better.
projection ;)
this is coming from the guy who thinks a contest separated by 3 points is not close and Dorian lost a contest in which be dominated in the likes which hasn't been seen to this day , and Ronnie has more detailed calves than Dorian and popular opinion is fact ;D
You have severe comprehension problems not your fault I blame the Canadian education system and genetics
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Dorian Yates laughs at these shenanigans. Ronnie wasn't nuttin but a peanut for him. 7 times or so?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=184544;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=184543;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=184548;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=184545;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=184547;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=184549;image)
Great shots they illustrate how great Dorian was from ALL angles not just in the most muscular and back double biceps shots and that's what wins contests
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Perfect balance, head to toe. And he doesnt even need those amazing arms of Ronnie Coleman.
Not to mention, huge, sliced, dry, propotioned, Only weak point is quad separation.
And this is his weakest pose. :o
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=221426;image)
NO weaknesses at all no according to the criteria , the only ' weak ' point with his quads separation is the rectus femoris and it's not weak just not as separated his quads show great separation as does the satorious muscle
in the Flex magazine coverage the assess his weak points at the 1993 Mr Olympia and their response was ' none really '
he really was outstanding at this contest and I would put this up against anything Ronnie has shown and he would come out on top
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Someone who is fit to judge BTW ;)
Bev Francis : Bodybuilder's phsyique you most admire ?
The man Dorian Yates , his combonation of size and shape makes for an awesome physique , unlike a lot of big guys he's not a load of massive parts just thrown together , His symmetry is almost perfect , Everything is in proportion , no weak bodyparts .
QFT
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Oh....you're a fanboy who puts his head in the sand when confronted with the fact that politics exist and Dorian himself received a gift.......gotcha
right here is where you claimed it was a fact politics exist and Dorian received a gift in 1997 , so once again Mr Hypocrite when does your opinion become a fact? especially considering you were bitching at others for trying to pass theirs off as facts which wasn't even the case to begin with.
I said he received a gift..you idiot. IMO he did, in fact, that's pretty much the universal consensus
I didn't say he "lost" moron. you are funny when you try and prove a point even though you are 100% wrong....it's like the fact that you are just making shit up doesn't even cross your mind
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Someone who is fit to judge BTW ;)
Bev Francis : Bodybuilder's phsyique you most admire ?
The man Dorian Yates , his combonation of size and shape makes for an awesome physique , unlike a lot of big guys he's not a load of massive parts just thrown together , His symmetry is almost perfect , Everything is in proportion , no weak bodyparts .
QFT
Ha Ha Ha...yeah, Bev isn't biased at all...Dorian is only buddies with her husband and trained at their gym in Syosset, NY( where i saw him in person) to get ready for the O. ::)
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I said he received a gift..you idiot. IMO he did, in fact, that's pretty much the universal consensus
I didn't say he "lost" moron. you are funny when you try and prove a point even though you are 100% wrong....it's like the fact that you are just making shit up doesn't even cross your mind
the point still stands hypocrite when did your opinion and the ' universal consensus ' become a fact? when? and who are you to speak for the masses?
when you say he received a gift you're implying he should have lost.
again you're a hypocrite for claiming it's a fact when you were just bitching about peoples opinions are not facts.
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the point still stands hypocrite when did your opinion and the ' universal consensus ' become a fact?
as soon as dorian stepped onstage.
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Ha Ha Ha...yeah, Bev isn't biased at all...Dorian is only buddies with her husband and trained at their gym in Syosset, NY( where i saw him in person) to get ready for the O. ::)
So she can't separate her personal feelings from the judging criteria? I think that's how they choose judges based on a history of being impartial and Steve FYI judged Dorian in one contest in his career and placed him BEHIND Momo for second , so I guess he can't be impartial either ;)
you're not revealing anything new there sport , this is old info.
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Boom!
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as soon as dorian stepped onstage.
It was all over ;)
Dorian was so far ahead of the competition that even at his worse he still beat everyone , unlike Ronnie who nearly lost at his best and did lose to Gunther and Jay lol
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Boom!
:-\ ;)
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the point still stands hypocrite when did your opinion and the ' universal consensus ' become a fact? when? and who are you to speak for the masses?
when you say he received a gift you're implying he should have lost.
again you're a hypocrite for claiming it's a fact when you were just bitching about peoples opinions are not facts.
you said he shouldn't have won yourself...what point are you trying to make, you nitwit ?
If he SHOULDN'T have won...but he DID, a logical person can only conclude that he didn't win it with his physique, and was "given" the title.
oh wait...that's right...he "gutted out' the victory with his "iron will" ::)
HaHaHaHaHahaHaaa....did he "will' the judges to ignore the fact that his left arm was completely mangled and hanging on by a thread ???
I can't "prove' that politics exist in the sport but i would think anyone with a brain knows they do, are you really that naive ??
I never knew there was a "willpower round" :D
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you said he shouldn't have won yourself...what point are you trying to make, you nitwit ?
If he SHOULDN'T have won...but he DID, a logical person can only conclude that he didn't win it with his physique, and was "given" the title.
oh wait...that's right...he "gutted out' the victory with his "iron will" ::)
HaHaHaHaHahaHaaa....did he "will' the judges to ignore the fact that his left arm was completely mangled and hanging on by a thread ???
I can't "prove' that politics exist in the sport but i would think anyone with a brain knows they do, are you really that naive ??
I never knew there was a "willpower round" :D
I'll ask again when did your opinion become fact? stop avoiding the question. you're a hypocrite for complaining about something you just did
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:-\ ;)
look at the color trunks Ronnie is wearing in your pic, then look at what he's wearing in mine. Now quick, look down then back at me. I'm on a horse
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I'll ask again when did your opinion become fact? stop avoiding the question. you're a hypocrite for complaining about something you just did
I just answered it.
IMO it is a fact that politics exist, like i said, it can't be "proven" but ask anyone who is involved with the sport and see what they say...except Bob Chick. he's just as much of a thick headed buffoon as you.
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Dorian never encountered anything like this
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/03%20Mr%20Olympia/03MrOlympia-Set6-Prejudging17abc.jpg)
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look at the color trunks Ronnie is wearing in your pic, then look at what he's wearing in mine. Now quick, look down then back at me. I'm on a horse
It's the same contest :-\
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I just answered it.
IMO it is a fact that politics exist, like i said, it can't be "proven" but ask anyone who is involved with the sport and see what they say...except Bob Chick. he's just as much of a thick headed buffoon as you.
There you go again in your ' opinion ' even according to you opinions are not fact but yet here you are trying to pass it off as one , after bitching at others for doing the same , it's valid when you want it to be hypocrite ;)
your opinion is NOT a fact and don't bitch at people for wrongly assuming they were doing the same
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It's the same contest
for someone who professes to be knowledgeable about bodybuilding and and holds himself above other posters, I'm surprised you don't know how a physique can change on the day of the contest from prejudging to finals :-\
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Dorian never encountered anything like this
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/03%20Mr%20Olympia/03MrOlympia-Set6-Prejudging17abc.jpg)
A guy who weighed 285lbs with inferior conditioning? yes he did Nasser many times ;D and Fux and Ian Harrison ;)
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for someone who professes to be knowledgeable about bodybuilding and and holds himself above other posters, I'm surprised you don't know how a physique can change on the day of the contest from prejudging to finals :-\
Did I claim anything to the contrary? I don't recall that post. all I said it was the same contest. and that's a fact
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There you go again in your ' opinion ' even according to you opinions are not fact but yet here you are trying to pass it off as one , after bitching at others for doing the same , it's valid when you want it to be hypocrite ;)
your opinion is NOT a fact and don't bitch at people for wrongly assuming they were doing the same
Stop whining over the minutiae of what I'm saying and ignoring the point.
Okay...I should have put an "IMO" in that sentence like I normally do, don't have a cow.
Cue ND crowing for six pages that he "got me" while ignoring what I'm saying. ::)
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Stop whining over the minutiae of what I'm saying and ignoring the point.
Okay...I should have put an "IMO" in that sentence like I normally do, don't have a cow.
I'm not having a cow just showing how you're being a hypocrite. You can't in good conscious call people out ( wrongly ) on things you're guilty of
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same 'contest' ;)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=343546.0;attach=378356;image)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/03%20Mr%20Olympia/03MrOlympia-Set6-Prejudging-Ronnie1a.jpg)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=343546.0;attach=378355;image)
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same 'contest' ;)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=343546.0;attach=378356;image)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/03%20Mr%20Olympia/03MrOlympia-Set6-Prejudging-Ronnie1a.jpg)
Dorian's conditioning is slaughtering Ronnie's , his density & dryness are on another level , Ronnie would need to be 247lbs to compare in this department.
and it's insane how far off he was from 1998/2001 in terms of crisp muscularity
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A guy who weighed 285lbs with inferior conditioning? yes he did Nasser many times and Fux and Ian Harrison
eh? all you did was mention the names of guys with inferior conditioning than 03 Ronnie and worse backs to boot ???
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Dorian's conditioning is slaughtering Ronnie's , his density & dryness are on another level , Ronnie would need to be 247lbs to compare in this department.
and it's insane how far off he was from 1998/2001 in terms of crisp muscularity
not in my book...Ronnie's sheer mass, muscularity and vastly superior shape more than make up the slight difference in conditioning. he's not human.
his arms fucking destroy Dorians there, it's embarrassing
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Dorian's conditioning is slaughtering Ronnie's , his density & dryness are on another level , Ronnie would need to be 247lbs to compare in this department.
folds of skin on the lower back, asymmetrical traps and lat attachments, torn muscles, wider midsection, less muscular bulk, and inferior conditioning in the glutes - you're going to have to try harder if you want to impress anyone besides say "his conditioning is slaughtering so and so's..."
:-\ :-\ :-\
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=343546.0;attach=378356;image)
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folds of skin on the lower back, asymmetrical traps and lat attachments, torn muscles, wider midsection, less muscular bulk, and inferior conditioning in the glutes - you're going to have to try harder if you want to impress anyone besides say "his conditioning is slaughtering so and so's..."
:-\ :-\ :-\
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=343546.0;attach=378356;image)
ND needs to get his eyes checked if he thinks the pic of Dorian is better than the pic of Ronnie...Coleman looks unreal there
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it doesn't matter what ronnie said about dorian
ronnie is widely known to be the greatest bodybuilder of all time not dorian
a handfull of judges don't change this fact, if you think the judging is always fair you don't know much about them
people know ronnie is better because he is, not because "they are all uneducated on judging"
millions of people in ronnie's favor can't be wrong.
sure ronnie never beat dorian onstage, but that was like groink said, "before ronnie was RONNIE"
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Ronnie also said he should have won at the 06 Mr Olympia (the year he lost to Jay Cutler). It's funny that ND likes to ignore this yet reposts the quote from Ronnie saying Dorian would beat him as some sort of 'proof' that Ronnie is fit to judge contests
I'm glad you can finally admit that none of the quote you post about Ronnie being better than Dorian are worth anything because none of the quotes are from IFBB judges so therefore NONE of the people quote are ' fit to judge ' all your quotes prove is the fact that it's a very popular opinion that Ronnie is the greatest of all-time and he would beat Dorian ;)
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eh? all you did was mention the names of guys with inferior conditioning than 03 Ronnie and worse backs to boot ???
Well it doesn't matter because Ronnie 03 certainly has inferior conditioning to Dorian any year and a back that worse too ( a bigger wider softer back doesn't make it better )
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Ronnie is still the GOAT with 8 victorys.
However, greatest Olympia physique evar IMHO (and many reputable others including judges, competitors, experts and fans) belongs to this man.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=356344;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=356422;image)
I will admit Dorians MM is underwhelming from the front... but from the side....
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not in my book...Ronnie's sheer mass, muscularity and vastly superior shape more than make up the slight difference in conditioning. he's not human.
his arms fucking destroy Dorians there, it's embarrassing
You as usual have a hard time following what I was saying , conditioning NOT the entire pose , conditioning and it ain't slight it's vast
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folds of skin on the lower back, asymmetrical traps and lat attachments, torn muscles, wider midsection, less muscular bulk, and inferior conditioning in the glutes - you're going to have to try harder if you want to impress anyone besides say "his conditioning is slaughtering so and so's..."
:-\ :-\ :-\
You like him missed the point completely , please show me where I said he's winning the pose? I posted the pic to show the night & day difference in conditioning of Dorian at his worse and Ronnie what some people consider his best
and my point stands
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Boom!
holy shit ronnie's back is untouchable in that pic :o
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holy shit ronnie's back is untouchable in that pic :o
ronnie's back is untouchable in real life too
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ND needs to get his eyes checked if he thinks the pic of Dorian is better than the pic of Ronnie...Coleman looks unreal there
Groink needs to learn how to slow down and read completely before typing a response that no one is arguing ;)
Dorian's conditioning especially in the back is much better than Ronnie's and this is Dorian at his worse , follow the bouncing ball ;)
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it doesn't matter what ronnie said about dorian
ronnie is widely known to be the greatest bodybuilder of all time not dorian
a handfull of judges don't change this fact, if you think the judging is always fair you don't know much about them
people know ronnie is better because he is, not because "they are all uneducated on judging"
millions of people in ronnie's favor can't be wrong.
sure ronnie never beat dorian onstage, but that was like groink said, "before ronnie was RONNIE"
Oh boy the Hulkster school of faulty positions
Ronnie is considered the greatest of all time because , he has the most Olympia wins ( 8 ) and the most career wins , this has NOTHING to do with Dorian because he didn't face Dorian for any of them.
Ronnie's opinion on the subject matters more than ANY of the ' millions ' of fans
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ND needs to get his eyes checked if he thinks the pic of Dorian is better than the pic of Ronnie...Coleman looks unreal there
dorian's back double bi is just like Flex's: very detailed, but very thin
ronnie's has great detail but is also thick as a brick.
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ronnie's back is untouchable in real life too
I bet your dreamed about touching it many times in real life :-X
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Holy balance, conditioning, size, thickness, the whole deal.
Too bad Ronnie was so thin front to back. :-[
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=356900;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=356906;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=356909;image)
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I bet your dreamed about touching it many times in real life :-X
you're real mature, trying to use sexual fantasies/references as an insult
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dorian's back double bi is just like Flex's: very detailed, but very thin
ronnie's has great detail but is also thick as a brick.
LMFAO Dorian's back is very thin hehehehehehehehehe
someone typed something about educated lmfao
Dorian's back even in 1997 is thicker , denser and drier than Ronnies in 2001 BY FAR
Ronnie 2003 would be lucky to have a thicker albeit softer back than Dorian 1997 nevermind the petite Ronnie at 247lbs max
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yup. like I said you are uneducated and it shows every post.
I said it was thin as displayed in the rear double bi pose, which is 100% true.
still haven't learn to read yet have you? ::)
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you're real mature, trying to use sexual fantasies/references as an insult
You just outed yourself lmfao who said anything about sex? I said you dreamed about touching it lol how you came to the conclusion it was sex related is beyond me :-X :-X
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dorian's back double bi is just like Flex's: very detailed, but very thin
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=343546.0;attach=378365;image)
ronnie's has great detail but is also thick as a brick.
you-----> (http://www.infoimagination.org/ps/drug_war/cocaine/images_cocaine/crack_smoker.jpeg)
dorians back was "thin" ::) ::)
(http://www.ilovespam.com/dorianyates6.jpg)
(http://tnation.tmuscle.com/forum_images/8/c/8c735_ORIG-Dorian_Yates_2.jpg)
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yup. like I said you are uneducated and it shows every post.
I said it was thin as displayed in the rear double bi pose, which is 100% true.
still haven't learn to read yet have you? ::)
The point stands you claimed Ronnie's back is thicker at 247lbs than Dorian's at 270lbs LMMFAO and his calves are more detailed too BAAAAWAHAHAHAHAHAHA
classic retard statement that's gonna haunt you dummy ;D
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you----->
dorians back was "thin" ::) ::)
(http://www.ilovespam.com/dorianyates6.jpg)
(http://tnation.tmuscle.com/forum_images/8/c/8c735_ORIG-Dorian_Yates_2.jpg)
not just think it was like Flex Wheeler VERY THIN lmfao
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Ronnie colemans was much thinner front to back than people thought.
Thank Hulkster for the proof.
His back separation and round muscles just gave the impression of being thick.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=343442.0;attach=377697;image)
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Dorian's back at 270lbs is very thin like Flex Wheeler in the back double biceps pose and Ronnie Coleman at 247lbs has a thicker back
;D
Hulkster you will regret this one too ;)
what a fucking idiot ;D
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Ronnie colemans was much thinner front to back than people thought.
Thank Hulkster for the proof.
His back separation and round muscles just gave the impression of being thick.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=343442.0;attach=377697;image)
Hulkster is winning the title race for dumbest person on the internet
Ronnie in 2001 was real light and amazingly sharp but to claim his back in ANY pose is thicker at 247lbs compared to Dorian at 269lbs defines a new level of stupidity and it ranks right up there with the Ronnie has more detailed calves than Dorian statement , how long before he retracts this and claims he was just kidding? ???
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The point stands you claimed Ronnie's back is thicker at 247lbs than Dorian's at 270lbs LMMFAO
yup. and the visuals prove it time and time again.
you act like the extra pounds dorian had in 97 were muscle.
have you seen his midsection? thats where most of the poundage is.
ronnie is still thicker even at 247:
ND is now on suicide watch:
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ND is now on suicide watch:
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=343546.0;attach=378378;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=343546.0;attach=378379;image)
is this some kind of trickery? Which one is Dorian?
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You just outed yourself lmfao who said anything about sex? I said you dreamed about touching it lol how you came to the conclusion it was sex related is beyond me :-X :-X
::)
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yup. and the visuals prove it time and time again.
you act like the extra pounds dorian had in 97 were muscle.
have you seen his midsection? thats where most of the poundage is.
ronnie is still thicker even at 247:
ND is now on suicide watch:
Ok Mr Proof, explain this paper thin Bodybuilder. ???
But wait, I thought Ronnie was supposed to be super thick front to rear. Oh wait, he wasnt, he just had super round muscles and separations making him appear thick when viewed head on from the back. Epic Hulkster fail.
ND there is another pic of Ronnie and Jay in 03 from the side and up in the air that shows how thin Ronnie was in 03 as well. Its crazy, he just disappears.
Hulkster on suicide watch. ::)
ZOMG, I thought ronnie was supposed to be thick?!
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=343442.0;attach=377697;image)
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You like him missed the point completely , please show me where I said he's winning the pose? I posted the pic to show the night & day difference in conditioning of Dorian at his worse and Ronnie what some people consider his best
and my point stands
So you said "Dorian is slaughtering Ronnie" because you think Ronnie was better in that pose....ok ;) ::)
You suffer from "I'm always right-itis" in a very bad way
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So you said "Dorian is slaughtering Ronnie" because you think Ronnie was better in that pose....ok ;) ::)
You suffer from "I'm always right-itis" in a very bad way
I think he was saying Dorian is slaughtering him in Conditioning and balance or whatever he said.
Probably was trying to highlight how much better conditioning Dorian had at his very worst.
Which, regardless of weather you think he should have won in 97 (I dont), you have to admit his conditioning was still spot on.
It was just the biceps, tricep, leg tear, gut, etc. lol.
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But wait, I thought Ronnie was supposed to be super thick front to rear. Oh wait, he wasnt, he just had super round muscles and separations making him appear thick when viewed head on from the back. Epic Hulkster fail.
LOL listen to this new guy speak ::).
no genious. he had super round muscles that caused him to be thick from front to rear, not made him appear that way when he was actually thin:
::)
you morons have so much to learn..you are veterans with a novice's knowledge.
thats depressing.
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Ronnie is still the GOAT with 8 victorys.
However, greatest Olympia physique evar IMHO (and many reputable others including judges, competitors, experts and fans) belongs to this man.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=356344;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=356422;image)
I will admit Dorians MM is underwhelming from the front... but from the side....
Roonie is not the GOAT, he tied Haney with 8. until someone gets 9.....
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I still can't believe it every time one of these topics comes up. Does this happen on any other forums? maybe the stormfront bodybuilding sub-board? ::)
Christ, yates has a thick, impressive physique but coleman literally makes him look like hes from a completely different era
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yup. and the visuals prove it time and time again.
you act like the extra pounds dorian had in 97 were muscle.
have you seen his midsection? thats where most of the poundage is.
ronnie is still thicker even at 247:
ND is now on suicide watch:
Once again you're trying to ascertain who is thicker via 2D pictures it shows how stupid you are.
but you're always good for a laugh ;D Ronnie's back is thicker despite being 23 pounds lighter ;D lmao
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So you said "Dorian is slaughtering Ronnie" because you think Ronnie was better in that pose....ok ;) ::)
You suffer from "I'm always right-itis" in a very bad way
in conditioning , you like to draw your own conclusions and argue a point no one made.
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LOL listen to this new guy speak ::).
no genious. he had super round muscles that caused him to be thick from front to rear, not made him appear that way when he was actually thin:
::)
you morons have so much to learn..you are veterans with a novice's knowledge.
thats depressing.
round muscles that cause him to be thick? WTF ??? thick muscle causes muscle to be thick the shape is irrelevant to the thickness dumbass , but what can I expect from a guy who thinks he can tell who is thicker via a 2d picture ;D
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Hulkster makes a claim Ronnie crushes it we all laugh at how retarded Hulkster looks ;D
DESCRIBE DORIAN YATES: A close friend. Dorian is very intelligent, a great Mr. Olympia. He had the best side-chest pose and the thickest freakiest back I have ever seen.
Hulkster owned once again by Ronnie and FYI this quote was from 2003 ;)
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Christ, yates has a thick, impressive physique but coleman literally makes him look like hes from a completely different era
yup. its not even close. ronnie raised the bar far above dorian.
are you reading this nuthuggers? ::)
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Hulkster makes a claim Ronnie crushes it we all laugh at how retarded Hulkster looks ;D
DESCRIBE DORIAN YATES: A close friend. Dorian is very intelligent, a great Mr. Olympia. He had the best side-chest pose and the thickest freakiest back I have ever seen.
Hulkster owned once again by Ronnie and FYI this quote was from 2003 ;)
That's because he can't see his own back :D
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I still can't believe it every time one of these topics comes up. Does this happen on any other forums? maybe the stormfront bodybuilding sub-board? ::)
Christ, yates has a thick, impressive physique but coleman literally makes him look like hes from a completely different era
x2
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LOL listen to this new guy speak ::).
no genious.
Nice self ownage.
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1998 Ronnie Coleman > any version of Dorian Yates.
On the other hand, I know conditioning is very important and that judges value dry & hard muscle mass a lot, but here is the thing: why is this dryness a lot more important over other aspects of the criteria? Why would Dorian's dryness be enough to beat a 1999 or a 2003 version of Ronnie?
Did Rich Gaspari ever beat Lee Haney despite having better conditioning? NO.
Same idea could apply here.
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1998 Ronnie Coleman > any version of Dorian Yates.
On the other hand, I know conditioning is very important and that judges value dry & hard muscle mass a lot, but here is the thing: why is this dryness a lot more important over other aspects of the criteria? Why would Dorian's dryness be enough to beat a 1999 or a 2003 version of Ronnie?
Did Rich Gaspari ever beat Lee Haney despite having better conditioning? NO.
Same idea could apply here.
x2 again
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1998 Ronnie Coleman > any version of Dorian Yates.
On the other hand, I know conditioning is very important and that judges value dry & hard muscle mass a lot, but here is the thing: why is this dryness a lot more important over other aspects of the criteria? Why would Dorian's dryness be enough to beat a 1999 or a 2003 version of Ronnie?
Did Rich Gaspari ever beat Lee Haney despite having better conditioning? NO.
Same idea could apply here.
Most likely as his 2001 AC would. '99 O maybe but not sure against '93 Dorian or '95 (perfect conditioning but first tears were already noticeable though he covered it up nicely).
2003 Ronnie: overated though impressive. But Ronnie's fans will say that Dorian also had poor showings ('94 and '97).
Somehow, Ronnie really hit his apex on a couple of occasions. Before the tears, Dorian was more complete but he didn't nail his conditioning as great as he did in his post tear years. The wow factor is Ronnie's though and I don't think anyone matched his '98 O.
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Most likely as his 2001 AC would. '99 O maybe but not sure against '93 Dorian or '95 (perfect conditioning but first tears were already noticeable though he covered it up nicely).
2003 Ronnie: overated though impressive. But Ronnie's fans will say that Dorian also had poor showings ('94 and '97).
Somehow, Ronnie really hit his apex on a couple of occasions. Before the tears, Dorian was more complete but he didn't nail his conditioning as great as he did in his post tear years. The wow factor is Ronnie's though and I don't think anyone matched his '98 O.
Agreed.
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1998 Ronnie Coleman > any version of Dorian Yates.
On the other hand, I know conditioning is very important and that judges value dry & hard muscle mass a lot, but here is the thing: why is this dryness a lot more important over other aspects of the criteria? Why would Dorian's dryness be enough to beat a 1999 or a 2003 version of Ronnie?
Did Rich Gaspari ever beat Lee Haney despite having better conditioning? NO.
Same idea could apply here.
Who said conditioning was more important? I've been stressing the point that NONE of the criteria alone trumps any other part , it's the whole package that determines the winner. however with all things being ' equal ' the determining factor is who is the better conditioned athlete
Gaspari had the conditioning he didn't have the structure of size to compete with Haney , Dorian had all that and beat Haney in the muscularity round in his third pro show ever and his first Olympia despite being 10lbs lighter
fast forward to Ronnie and Dorian , Dorian has the size , structure and conditioning in his favor as well as balance and posing
1998 wouldn't be nearly enough to topple Yates it really wouldn't especially not with bitch-tits
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Nice self ownage.
lmfao typical Hulkster this is the guy claiming to be ' educated '
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yup. its not even close. ronnie raised the bar far above dorian.
are you reading this nuthuggers? ::)
Another one of your empty claims , seeing you posted 1999 how did he ' raised the bar far above dorian ' ? how another just flat-out blanket statement with no elaboration
did Ronnie 1999 raise the bar in terms of muscular bulk compared to what Dorian exhibited? NO 1999 he was 257lbs , Dorian was 257lbs in 93 and 260lbs in 1995 so when you typed he raised the bar far above Dorian it's a lie
Did he raise the bar as far as conditioning goes? short answer hell NO especially NOT in 1999 which was a step behind 1998 and 2001 , so again another lie on your behalf , did Ronnie surpass Dorian in terms of density & dryness while carrying more muscular bulk? NO
Did Ronnie surpass Dorian in terms of muscle balance & proportion? Ummmmmm NO again his flaws in this area became more pronounced the heavier he became , so when you type he raised the bar above Dorian it's another lie
Did Ronnie raise the bar in terms of posing & presentation compared to Dorian? NO his posing was pathetic , so when you say he raised the bar it's yet another lie
Did Ronnie raise the bar above Dorian in terms of competition he faced? NO all guys that Dorian dominated who when past their primes gave Ronnie a handful of trouble
So when you type that he raised the bar beyond what Dorian did and raised it FAR beyond it's a blatant lie and nothing more than a gross overstatement.
Dorian was 257 pounds in 1993 while being hard as nails and dry as hell with better balance & proportion and he was a better poser who faced stiffer competition closer to their primes , SO Ronnie raised nothing , Ronnie played follow Dorian's leader
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That's because he can't see his own back :D
yawn never heard that one before ::)
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Another one of your empty claims , seeing you posted 1999 how did he ' raised the bar far above dorian ' ? how another just flat-out blanket statement with no elaboration
did Ronnie 1999 raise the bar in terms of muscular bulk compared to what Dorian exhibited? NO 1999 he was 257lbs , Dorian was 257lbs in 93 and 260lbs in 1995 so when you typed he raised the bar far above Dorian it's a lie
Did he raise the bar as far as conditioning goes? short answer hell NO especially NOT in 1999 which was a step behind 1998 and 2001 , so again another lie on your behalf , did Ronnie surpass Dorian in terms of density & dryness while carrying more muscular bulk? NO
Did Ronnie surpass Dorian in terms of muscle balance & proportion? Ummmmmm NO again his flaws in this area became more pronounced the heavier he became , so when you type he raised the bar above Dorian it's another lie
Did Ronnie raise the bar in terms of posing & presentation compared to Dorian? NO his posing was pathetic , so when you say he raised the bar it's yet another lie
Did Ronnie raise the bar above Dorian in terms of competition he faced? NO all guys that Dorian dominated who when past their primes gave Ronnie a handful of trouble
So when you type that he raised the bar beyond what Dorian did and raised it FAR beyond it's a blatant lie and nothing more than a gross overstatement.
Dorian was 257 pounds in 1993 while being hard as nails and dry as hell with better balance & proportion and he was a better poser who faced stiffer competition closer to their primes , SO Ronnie raised nothing , Ronnie played follow Dorian's leader
I generally agree with you even though I think that Ronnie at his best would have beaten Dorian at his best, considering that I think Ronnie did hit his best possible and somehow Dorian only came close to the best he could have been.
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Another one of your empty claims , seeing you posted 1999 how did he ' raised the bar far above dorian ' ? how another just flat-out blanket statement with no elaboration
did Ronnie 1999 raise the bar in terms of muscular bulk compared to what Dorian exhibited? NO 1999 he was 257lbs , Dorian was 257lbs in 93 and 260lbs in 1995 so when you typed he raised the bar far above Dorian it's a lie
Did he raise the bar as far as conditioning goes? short answer hell NO especially NOT in 1999 which was a step behind 1998 and 2001 , so again another lie on your behalf , did Ronnie surpass Dorian in terms of density & dryness while carrying more muscular bulk? NO
Did Ronnie surpass Dorian in terms of muscle balance & proportion? Ummmmmm NO again his flaws in this area became more pronounced the heavier he became , so when you type he raised the bar above Dorian it's another lie
Did Ronnie raise the bar in terms of posing & presentation compared to Dorian? NO his posing was pathetic , so when you say he raised the bar it's yet another lie
Did Ronnie raise the bar above Dorian in terms of competition he faced? NO all guys that Dorian dominated who when past their primes gave Ronnie a handful of trouble
So when you type that he raised the bar beyond what Dorian did and raised it FAR beyond it's a blatant lie and nothing more than a gross overstatement.
Dorian was 257 pounds in 1993 while being hard as nails and dry as hell with better balance & proportion and he was a better poser who faced stiffer competition closer to their primes , SO Ronnie raised nothing , Ronnie played follow Dorian's leader
Meltdown of biblical proportions.
weight, smeight....it's all about what they look like. Ronnie looks like he's from another planet because of the way he is put together, far superior to the keg.
And also a pro BBers weight claim is utter bullshit 99.9999999% of the time.....but you keep pulling your facts and quotes from your favorite BBing comicbooks mags....we'll keep laughing at you ;) ;D :) ;)
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Meltdown of biblical proportions.
weight, smeight....it's all about what they look like. Ronnie looks like he's from another planet because of the way he is put together, far superior to the keg.
And also a pro BBers weight claim is utter bullshit 99.9999999% of the time.....but you keep pulling your facts and quotes from your favorite BBing comicbooks mags....we'll keep laughing at you ;) ;D :) ;)
oh boy ::) when you wish people to get hit by a bus and paralyzed that's a meltdown , what I just typed is a beat down ;)
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oh boy ::) when you wish people to get hit by a bus and paralyzed that's a meltdown , what I just typed is a beat down ;)
I know ....... Every bodybuilder who ever competed will tell you the scale is meaningless...but you just schooled us all by rattling off make-believe weights you read in Flex comicbook magazine. ::)
LOLOLOLOLOL.....ND lives in his own little world where everything he says is right.....I find this amusing :)
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LOL listen to this new guy speak ::).
no genious. he had super round muscles that caused him to be thick from front to rear, not made him appear that way when he was actually thin:
::)
you morons have so much to learn..you are veterans with a novice's knowledge.
thats depressing.
Yup. I see lots of thickness there. Hahaha. Thanks for handing me your suicide note Hulkster, your thickness argument just went out the window.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=343442.0;attach=377697;image)
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Yep....the scale tells the story ::)
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I know ....... Every bodybuilder who ever competed will tell you the scale is meaningless...but you just schooled us all by rattling off make-believe weights you read in Flex comicbook magazine. ::)
LOLOLOLOLOL.....ND lives in his own little world where everything he says is right.....I find this amusing :)
You're fond of evading questions huh? yes the scale is meaningless however the point stands there is a vast difference being 257lbs bone dry and rock hard and 257lbs and a tad soft and holding water
so every weight Ronnie ever quoted is a lie too huh? ( don't worry I wont be waiting for this answer either ;) )
you're right I am in my own little world where I know how contests are judged and what to look for and don't base my opinion on a ' look ' that I prefer
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Yep....the scale tells the story ::)
Is Ronnie standing side-by-side with Dorian? Dorian's worse year and he's just making Ronnie look soft as hell
this would be even worse ;)
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You're fond of evading questions huh? yes the scale is meaningless however the point stands there is a vast difference being 257lbs bone dry and rock hard and 257lbs and a tad soft and holding water
so every weight Ronnie ever quoted is a lie too huh? ( don't worry I wont be waiting for this answer either ;) )
you're right I am in my own little world where I know how contests are judged and what to look for and don't base my opinion on a ' look ' that I prefer
I don't believe a fucking word in those rags, you niwit.
I haven't opened a FLEX magazine in 20 years..... they are for stupid 16 year old boys and you quote them like they are sworn testimony...it's comical
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I don't believe a fucking word in those rags, you niwit.
I haven't opened a FLEX magazine in 20 years..... they are for stupid 16 year old boys and you quote them like they are sworn testimony...it's comical
getting sensitive aren't we? ;D Dorian said he was 257lbs in 1993 forget what the magazines say , are you saying he's lying? oh that's right 99.99999999% lie ::) nothing anyone says is ever right ::)
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Is Ronnie standing side-by-side with Dorian? Dorian's worse year and he's just making Ronnie look soft as hell
this would be even worse ;)
no it wouldn't.... Ronnie would destroy any bodybuilder who has ever competed.....
I'm not as impressed with those pics as everybody else.....pumped up, pre-contest photoshoot, BFD...He wasn't onstage, they are meaningless.
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Yup. I see lots of thickness there. Hahaha. Thanks for handing me your suicide note Hulkster, your thickness argument just went out the window.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=343442.0;attach=377697;image)
hehehehehehehe ;D
Ronnie's back at 247lbs is thicker than Dorian's at 270lbs ;D
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getting sensitive aren't we? ;D Dorian said he was 257lbs in 1993 forget what the magazines say , are you saying he's lying? oh that's right 99.99999999% lie ::) nothing anyone says is ever right ::)
why..... because I called a nitwit, a nitwit ???
You keep believing the FLEX fairy tales, we will keep laughing at your silliness ;)
To think a grown man believes what he reads in BBing magazines.....LOLOLOLOL you crack me up ND :D
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no it wouldn't.... Ronnie would destroy any bodybuilder who has ever competed.....
I'm not as impressed with those pics as everybody else.....pumped up, pre-contest photoshoot, BFD...He wasn't onstage, they are meaningless.
is that a fact? of just your opinion?
wow pumped up huh? because Ronnie wasn't in the pump up room just before he hit the stage ::) I don't care what you're impressed with , contests aren't judge on what " Groink " is impressed with
they're not meaningless they proof of how great he was and how he makes Ronnie look like an imbalanced collection of massive parts who is about 6 weeks out from contest conditioning
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why..... because I called a nitwit, a nitwit ???
You keep believing the FLEX fairy tales, we will keep laughing at your silliness ;)
To think a grown man believes what he reads in BBing magazines.....LOLOLOLOL you crack me up ND :D
Yes name calling because you're getting frustrated
Who said anything about Flex fairy tales? I said forget the magazines , Dorian said he was 257lbs are you claiming he's lying? ( still avoiding questions )
Again who said I believe everything that I read in a bodybuilding magazine? please post where I said that and good luck , you keep drawing your own conclusions which are lies , show me where I said what you're claiming I dare you ;)
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is that a fact? of just your opinion?
wow pumped up huh? because Ronnie wasn't in the pump up room just before he hit the stage ::) I don't care what you're impressed with , contests aren't judge on what " Groink " is impressed with
they're not meaningless they proof of how great he was and how he makes Ronnie look like an imbalanced collection of massive parts who is about 6 weeks out from contest conditioning
It's a photoshoot, nitwit....do you think Peter Horton just "happened by' with his camera and took a couple of pics?? ::)
Those are probably the best ones out of hundreds that were posed, lighted etc....until they got it right. They just want you to think they are "candid pre-contest shots" and ND...ever the lemming, slurps it up :D LOLOLOLOLOL
Not onstage = meaningless in my book
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Yes name calling because you're getting frustrated
Who said anything about Flex fairy tales? I said forget the magazines , Dorian said he was 257lbs are you claiming he's lying? ( still avoiding questions )
Again who said I believe everything that I read in a bodybuilding magazine? please post where I said that and good luck , you keep drawing your own conclusions which are lies , show me where I said what you're claiming I dare you ;)
Frustrated ?? this is fun to me.....I love watching you melt and get even more vehement in your defense of the Keg...it's funny as hell.
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It's a photoshoot, nitwit....do you think Peter Horton just "happened by' with his camera and took a couple of pics?? ::)
Those are probably the best ones out of hundreds that were posed, lighted etc....until they got it right. They just want you to think they are "candid pre-contest shots" and ND...ever the lemming, slurps it up :D LOLOLOLOLOL
Not onstage = meaningless in my book
Those photos FYI were NEVER intended to for publication they were for his own private viewing , he's un-tanned , has no posing oil so much for a pro photoshoot ::)
Kevin Horton said they photos were technically terrible to ad insult to injury ;)
wow they're meaningless in your book ::) they're meaningless in your book because he makes Coleman look redundant , contests aren't judge by the Book Of Groink FYI
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Frustrated ?? this is fun to me.....I love watching you melt and get even more vehement in your defense of the Keg...it's funny as hell.
Fun avoiding questions? I'll ask again since you can't follow simple directions , are you claiming Dorian lied about his weight at the 1993 Mr Olympia? and please again show me where I ever claimed I believe everything in magazines , still waiting , tick-tock tick-tock tick-tock
and you obviously don't know what a meltdown is because when you see me wishing you hit by a bus and paralyzed for life then you can claim I'm having a meltdown , don't mistake correcting you and Hulkster on your gross overstatements as a meltdown
what's funny as hell is you being reduced to name calling , lying and gross overstatements and premature claims of meltdowns oh and wish ill harm on other members ;)
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Those photos FYI were NEVER intended to for publication they were for his own private viewing , he's un-tanned , has no posing oil so much for a pro photoshoot ::)
Kevin Horton said they photos were technically terrible to ad insult to injury ;)
wow they're meaningless in your book ::) they're meaningless in your book because he makes Coleman look redundant , contests aren't judge by the Book Of Groink FYI
they were never intended for public viewing....that's why they were shot by one of the best in the biz and were on the cover of FLEX...........you are too funny ;D ;D
you keep believing the fairy tales :) LOLOLOLOL.....do you think Muscletech is 1345% more anabolic too, HaHaHaHaHaHa :D :D
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Fun avoiding questions? I'll ask again since you can't follow simple directions , are you claiming Dorian lied about his weight at the 1993 Mr Olympia? and please again show me where I ever claimed I believe everything in magazines , still waiting , tick-tock tick-tock tick-tock
and you obviously don't know what a meltdown is because when you see me wishing you hit by a bus and paralyzed for life then you can claim I'm having a meltdown , don't mistake correcting you and Hulkster on your gross overstatements as a meltdown
what's funny as hell is you being reduced to name calling , lying and gross overstatements and premature claims of meltdowns oh and wish ill harm on other members ;)
more than likely....point is you have no idea whether it's bullshit any more than i do....but i use common sense in that virtually all bber's lie about their weight, but not Dorian right....he's "special" ::)
I'm glad you keep quoting what i said about Vince....i stand behind it 100% :)..... no meltdown. but I have to wonder what the fuck that has to do with this topic
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they were never intended for public viewing....that's why they were shot by one of the best in the biz and were on the cover of FLEX...........you are too funny ;D ;D
you keep believing the fairy tales :) LOLOLOLOL.....do you think Muscletech is 1345% more anabolic too, HaHaHaHaHaHa :D :D
well now you've ruined ND's supplement regimen.
I bet muscle tech is better than dorian yates approved
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well said.
ronnie was put together like a champion bodybuilder with a classic taper.
dorian was put together like a construction worker who powerlifts on the side:
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Too bad Ronnie couldnt match this thickness, conditioning, balance, and posing. Dorian had the total package.
Ronnie... was.. well flat as a pancake front to back.
Holy shredded thickness batman!
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=356939;image)
Holy pancake batman. :-\ Epic Tricep fail on Ronnie too. To bad his Side Tri was a fucking terrible pose for him, as was the ab thigh, and the side chest was a mess of mismatched bodyparts.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=343442.0;attach=377697;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=356933;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=356934;image)
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think again cockwave.
even at 'only' 247 pounds ronnie's back was thicker than dorian's ever was.
all his extra weight was in his keg midsection.
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more than likely....point is you have no idea whether it's bullshit any more than i do....but i use common sense in that virtually all bber's lie about their weight, but not Dorian right....he's "special" ::)
I'm glad you keep quoting what i said about Vince....i stand behind it 100% :)..... no meltdown. but I have to wonder what the fuck that has to do with this topic
more than likely....point is you have no idea whether it's bullshit any more than i do....but i use common sense in that virtually all bber's lie about their weight, but not Dorian right....he's "special" ::)
there you go again putting words in quotations as of anyone said he was ' special ' well we know for a fact that you're included in that 99.9999999% of people who lie because you keep drawing your own conclusions and going on tirades based on that no one even claimed
I'm glad you keep quoting what i said about Vince....i stand behind it 100% :)..... no meltdown. but I have to wonder what the fuck that has to do with this topic
No that's a textbook meltdown and it has to do with this topic because you mistakenly claim I'm melting down because I'm addressing his his blatant overstatements , go learn what a meltdown is because apparently you don't know what one is , especially after claiming wishing another member be hit by a bus and paralyzed
You still haven't posted where I ever claimed I believe everything in magazines , still waiting sport
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they were never intended for public viewing....that's why they were shot by one of the best in the biz and were on the cover of FLEX...........you are too funny ;D ;D
you keep believing the fairy tales :) LOLOLOLOL.....do you think Muscletech is 1345% more anabolic too, HaHaHaHaHaHa :D :D
[ Q ] Did you have any idea at the time just how big of an impact the '93 photos would have, even up to the present day?
Dorian Yates : They were actually for my own records so they were not supposed to be released and that explains why I'm standing there in my underpants and socks. I had just stripped off after training. They were just for my own records to look back on. I took them in the same spot I did the previous year and then Kevin Horton took them in to Peter McGough (former FLEX Magazine and Muscle and Fitness Editor-In-Chief). Of course they became probably the most famous physique photos ever; they are like iconic now.
let me guess he's lying here too? ;) because all professional photoshoots the bodybuilder was untanned , with no posing oil and in their underwear and socks ;)
thanks for playing Groink ;D
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think again cockwave.
even at 'only' 247 pounds ronnie's back was thicker than dorian's ever was.
all his extra weight was in his keg midsection.
hehehehehehehe what a dumbass statement
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think again cockwave.
even at 'only' 247 pounds ronnie's back was thicker than dorian's ever was.
all his extra weight was in his keg midsection.
Hahaha yep Bodybuilding is all about illusion, and Ronnies got you fooled!!
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Massive thickness self-ownage.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=343442.0;attach=377697;image)
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they were never intended for public viewing....that's why they were shot by one of the best in the biz and were on the cover of FLEX...........you are too funny ;D ;D
you keep believing the fairy tales :) LOLOLOLOL.....do you think Muscletech is 1345% more anabolic too, HaHaHaHaHaHa :D :D
yeah, anyone who knows anything about photography can see that those shots are carefully done. look at the lighting, shadows and contrast.
but Kevin Horton in an effort to make himself look better claimed they were 'technically terrible shots" which is complete bullshit, but like a puppy, gullible and stupid ND believed him word for word..
::)
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look at this shot.
anyone who thinks this was some random shot with litte attention paid to lighting, camera angles, contrast, ISO value etc. is truly in the dark when it comes to photography..
but ND and Co, believe all the hype like sad little IFBB soldiers.. ::)
this an amazing shot. carefully orchestrated and well done.
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yeah, anyone who knows anything about photography can see that those shots are carefully done. look at the lighting, shadows and contrast.
but Kevin Horton in an effort to make himself look better claimed they were 'technically terrible shots" which is complete bullshit, but like a puppy, gullible and stupid ND believed him word for word..
::)
excuses , excuses , you're still bitter at Horton because he exposed you for using enhanced pictures ;D
anyone who knows anything about photography , you sure as fuck don't you're the dumbass who tried to pass off enhanced pics and morphed ics as ' overwhelming visual proof ' lol epic backfire
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I'm not as impressed with those pics as everybody else
I was impressed until I saw the equivelent Ronnie versions which totally destroy them:
once ronnie peaked, he was always far above anything dorian ever did, including the precontest pics:
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I thought Ronnie was supposed to be Mr thick?
Wheres the thickness?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=343442.0;attach=377697;image)
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I was impressed until I saw the equivelent Ronnie versions which totally destroy them:
once ronnie peaked, he was always far above anything dorian ever did, including the precontest pics:
These had no impact , those of Yates are still being talked about today 17 years later , no one cares about these shots of Ronnie except fan-boys
his conditioning blows and his balance & proportion are laughable 23" arms and 16" calves he looks like he's guest posing , the shots of Yates still compare favorably with anyone competing today and you dumbasses talk about the sport progressed hahahahahaha sure it did
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I thought Ronnie was supposed to be Mr thick?
Wheres the thickness?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=343442.0;attach=377697;image)
you really think a shot of anyone doing that pose will show back thickness? ???
you are viewing the top of his head looking down his spine and his back is barely visible.. ::)
LOL you are even dumber than I thought.
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I thought Ronnie was supposed to be Mr thick?
Wheres the thickness?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=343442.0;attach=377697;image)
That's when you know Hulkster is crushed he runs whenever he's faced with facts , he claims I run from him yet here I am destroying every single posts he puts up , he runs from the IFBB judging criteria , from the experts who all agree 99 ain't his best , from Ronnie , from me , you , from history ,from the truth.
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where is the back thickness? I don't see it.
so dorian has a thin back.
::)
actually, he does as viewed in the rear double bi, but still.
you get my point.
you take a shot of ronnie where you cannot see his back and then proclaim him to be thin beause of it.
honestly, your stupidity knows no bounds.
::)
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where is the back thickness? I don't see it.
so dorian has a thin back.
::)
actually, he does as viewed in the rear double bi, but still.
you get my point.
you take a shot of ronnie where you cannot see his back and then proclaim him to be thin beause of it.
honestly, your stupidity knows no bounds.
::)
So you post a pic of his quad? ???
Hulkster epic fail ;D and his stupidity knows no bounds? lol
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[ Q ] Did you have any idea at the time just how big of an impact the '93 photos would have, even up to the present day?
Dorian Yates : They were actually for my own records so they were not supposed to be released and that explains why I'm standing there in my underpants and socks. I had just stripped off after training. They were just for my own records to look back on. I took them in the same spot I did the previous year and then Kevin Horton took them in to Peter McGough (former FLEX Magazine and Muscle and Fitness Editor-In-Chief). Of course they became probably the most famous physique photos ever; they are like iconic now.
let me guess he's lying here too? ;) because all professional photoshoots the bodybuilder was untanned , with no posing oil and in their underwear and socks ;)
thanks for playing Groink ;D
He's full of crap...and apparently full of himself too. :D Arnold didn't pat himself on the back as much as this dildo
another "quote" from a BBing comic book from ND
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Who the fuck is Dorian and who the fuck is that in the vid?
Dorian is the guy who beat Ronnie for years
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Dorian is the guy who beat Ronnie for years
I thought charles clairmonte beat ronnie for years.
oh wait. he did. so did everyone else. like the mighty Porter Cotrell LOL
::)
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I thought charles clairmonte beat ronnie for years.
oh wait. he did. so did everyone else. like the mighty Porter Cotrell LOL
::)
The difference my very dumb witted friend is ........................ ....NONE of those guys beat Dorian ;)
Dorian beat everyone including Haney ( in the muscularity round ;) in his first Olympia when Lee was at his career best )
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He's full of crap...and apparently full of himself too. :D Arnold didn't pat himself on the back as much as this dildo
another "quote" from a BBing comic book from ND
What else are you gonna say? you look like a fool you're soundly proven wrong again
and to further embarrass you that was from a website and NOT a ' BBing comic book ' ;)
and I'm still waiting for you to provide me with the proof where I claimed I believe everything in the magazines , any idea on when that's coming sport?
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What else are you gonna say? you look like a fool you're soundly proven wrong again
and to further embarrass you that was from a website and NOT a ' BBing comic book ' ;)
and I'm still waiting for you to provide me with the proof where I claimed I believe everything in the magazines , any idea on when that's coming sport?
How many keyboards have you smashed melting over the Keg?
I don't have to prove anything you nitwit...you have been regurgitating shit from BBing rags for 5 years now...and it always the gospel when it comes to Dorian, but not anyone else.
Do you think we haven't noticed ?
You never said "i believe everything I read in BBing mags"....I DID you idiot, because that's my view after watching you hyperventilate over quotes from various writers for all these years, and use them as "proof" that your opinion matters more than the next person's
How stupid are you ??
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How many keyboards have you smashed melting over the Keg?
I don't have to prove anything you nitwit...you have been regurgitating shit from BBing rags for 5 years now...and it always the gospel when it comes to Dorian, but not anyone else.
Do you think we haven't noticed ?
You never said "i believe everything I read in BBing mags"....I DID you idiot, because that's my view after watching you hyperventilate over quotes from various writers for all these years, and use them as "proof" that your opinion matters more than the next person's
How stupid are you ??
meltdown
take a note of this for future reference and I'm glad you've been hanging on my every word for 5 years ;)
Thanks for playing Groink hey and BTW any luck finding that quote where I said I believe everything in the magazines ??? ???
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meltdown
take a note of this for future reference and I'm glad you've been hanging on my every word for 5 years ;)
Thanks for playing Groink hey and BTW any luck finding that quote where I said I believe everything in the magazines ??? ???
It's called remembering things that you read....I'm quite sure not a single soul here "hangs" on things you write.
It's pretty much the same tune over and over and over and over and over.....kinda hard not to notice multiple thousand page threads of your love poems to the Keg ;)
and to indulge your retarded line of questioning....I never said YOU said it......you idiot.
I said it about YOU....comprehend much?? should I use smaller words??
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and I'm still waiting for you to provide me with the proof where I claimed I believe everything in the magazines , any idea on when that's coming sport?
oh brother.. ::)
you have over 33,000 posts doing just this and you have to ask where is the proof? ??? ::)
just when I thought you couldn't be any more stupid, you surprise us all.
congrats. :-\
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It's called remembering things that you read....I'm quite sure not a single soul here "hangs" on things you write.
It's pretty much the same tune over and over and over and over and over.....kinda hard not to notice multiple thousand page threads of your love poems to the Keg ;)
and to indulge your retarded line of questioning....I never said YOU said it......you idiot.
I said it about YOU....comprehend much?? should I use smaller words??
meltdown part 2
yeah not a single soul hangs on my word yet the Truce Thread has 640K views and 43517 replies and NOT a soul hangs on my word , BULLSHIT ;)
You're damn right it's the same tune over and over my position hasn't changed it's been consistent , if what I was saying is so absurd and way out there that Truce thread would have been 2 pages , any thread I'm in you can bet it will be huge and why? because people hang on my every word like YOU and Hulkster and the rest of you
' I never said you said it ' that's my whole point genius... you said it about me and it's not true so you're wrong once again , like your wrong that I get all my info from ' comic books ' and wrong that the pictures weren't for publication , you are consistently wrong and proven wrong by me
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oh brother.. ::)
you have over 33,000 posts doing just this and you have to ask where is the proof? ??? ::)
just when I thought you couldn't be any more stupid, you surprise us all.
congrats. :-\
Unlike you moron ( who hangs on my every word and follows me like a lost little puppy dog ) not all my posts are on that subject , unlike YOU I'm not a one trick pony , I post on many topics totally unrelated to Dorian or Ronnie , it's all you know
you dumb asses couldn't ignore me if you tried ;)
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meltdown part 2
yeah not a single soul hangs on my word yet the Truce Thread has 640K views and 43517 replies and NOT a soul hangs on my word , BULLSHIT ;)
You're damn right it's the same tune over and over my position hasn't changed it's been consistent , if what I was saying is so absurd and way out there that Truce thread would have been 2 pages , any thread I'm in you can bet it will be huge and why? because people hang on my every word like YOU and Hulkster and the rest of you
' I never said you said it ' that's my whole point genius... you said it about me and it's not true so you're wrong once again , like your wrong that I get all my info from ' comic books ' and wrong that the pictures weren't for publication , you are consistently wrong and proven wrong by me
It's because there are two types of people here...those that think you are an idiot and argue with you, trying to prove you wrong. Which is impossible, you can't prove an opinion wrong. but they have been going at it with you for years....whatever.
And then there are people (like me) who think you are funny and occasionally join the fray to fuck with you and point out how ludicrous your little crusade is. i don't expect to ever prove you wrong, like i said...no such thing as a wrong opinion. in two years from now 90% of your posts will still be you arguing with someone about how great Dorian Yates is...have fun :D
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It's because there are two types of people here...those that think you are an idiot and argue with you, trying to prove you wrong. Which is impossible, you can't prove an opinion wrong. but they have been going at it with you for years....whatever.
And then there are people (like me) who think you are funny and occasionally join the fray to fuck with you and point out how ludicrous your little crusade is. i don't expect to ever prove you wrong, like i said...no such thing as a wrong opinion. in two years from now 90% of your posts will still be you arguing with someone about how great Dorian Yates is...have fun :D
I don't have a crusade , out of respect for fellow members who were sick of this shit I was the bigger man and offered a truce , I was secure enough in my opinion to let it stand on it's on , little insecure fanboys couldn't let it go , after I kicked Hulkster's ass in the Truce thread and rendered anything he had to type moot using his own hero , I let it go again , now we're are we? angry little fanboys hanging on my every word pissed because I made them all look retarded
I don't mind debating bodybuilding it's what boards like this are made for , Dorian V Ronnie isn't the only thing I post in and I can let it go anytime I want , some topics on the subject interest me ( like 2000 vs Dorian ) some don't , I don't post in all , but if somehow they deleted the truce thread I would still have thousands of posts and Hulkster would be left with 100
Like I said these guys couldn't ignore me if they tried
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saying ronnie doesn't have back thickness, it's their only argument, and frankly it's false, all they can show is that picture,
funny enough there is no picture of dorian hitting that pose, even so he wouldn't look thicker anyway
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why are you guys wasting time arguing over back thickness? Ronnie wins easily 8)
Jim Schmaltz – Flex, April 2002
“The 37-year-old Coleman has what many of the sport's analysts feel is the best back ever.”
Peter McGough - Flex, December 2006
"The best back ever lacked its eye-popping detail and fullness." (in reference to Ronnie at the 06 Mr. Olympia)
1998 Mr. Olympia Contest Review by Max Muscle Sports and Fitness
Only Milos Sarcev, in his evaluation of Mr. Olympia contenders in the last issue of Max Muscle, saw Coleman as having a good chance: "At this time, Ron has the best back in the history of the sport," said Mishko, "even better than Bannout and Haney, or Dorian. Ron's thicker, wider, more pleasing.”
http://www.maxmuscle.com/index.cfm?fa=article&doc_id=22&subcat=body_building
The 20 Best Backs of All Time - Flex, March 2008
4. Lee Haney
3. Joel Stubbs
2. Dorian Yates
1. Ronnie Coleman
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KFY/is_1_26/ai_n24356572/pg_1?tag=artBody;col1
“For much of the '90s, there was little dispute that Yates had the best back ever, and there are many who contend so today. Now, there is a debate, for during the first years of his Olympia reign, Coleman also displayed low-lying, ultrawide lats, but whereas Yates had more grainy ruggedness, Coleman had more feathered refinements. The moments just before he hit his rear lat spread and rear double biceps were contest highlights, as ridges and knots roamed and stripes and crevices emerged, morphing his back into a new and spectacular landscape each time he moved his arms. At his best, his back was like a great symphony orchestra, big and booming, sometimes overwhelming, and yet each finely tuned part played its role precisely.”
-
why are you guys wasting time arguing over back thickness? Ronnie wins easily 8)
Jim Schmaltz – Flex, April 2002
“The 37-year-old Coleman has what many of the sport's analysts feel is the best back ever.”
Peter McGough - Flex, December 2006
"The best back ever lacked its eye-popping detail and fullness." (in reference to Ronnie at the 06 Mr. Olympia)
1998 Mr. Olympia Contest Review by Max Muscle Sports and Fitness
Only Milos Sarcev, in his evaluation of Mr. Olympia contenders in the last issue of Max Muscle, saw Coleman as having a good chance: "At this time, Ron has the best back in the history of the sport," said Mishko, "even better than Bannout and Haney, or Dorian. Ron's thicker, wider, more pleasing.”
http://www.maxmuscle.com/index.cfm?fa=article&doc_id=22&subcat=body_building
The 20 Best Backs of All Time - Flex, March 2008
4. Lee Haney
3. Joel Stubbs
2. Dorian Yates
1. Ronnie Coleman
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KFY/is_1_26/ai_n24356572/pg_1?tag=artBody;col1
“For much of the '90s, there was little dispute that Yates had the best back ever, and there are many who contend so today. Now, there is a debate, for during the first years of his Olympia reign, Coleman also displayed low-lying, ultrawide lats, but whereas Yates had more grainy ruggedness, Coleman had more feathered refinements. The moments just before he hit his rear lat spread and rear double biceps were contest highlights, as ridges and knots roamed and stripes and crevices emerged, morphing his back into a new and spectacular landscape each time he moved his arms. At his best, his back was like a great symphony orchestra, big and booming, sometimes overwhelming, and yet each finely tuned part played its role precisely.”
from an argumentation standpoint this is a pretty good post; it even includes a contrarian statement from the oft-quoted McGough
but seriously, how do you guys do this? the only regular poster in this thread that i understand is groink, who seems to be having fun taunting the ND guy
how can you guys take people who actually think yates had a more impressive physique than coleman so seriously? its mind blowing
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yates was better, hope this helps.
-
why are you guys wasting time arguing over back thickness? Ronnie wins easily 8)
Jim Schmaltz – Flex, April 2002
“The 37-year-old Coleman has what many of the sport's analysts feel is the best back ever.”
Peter McGough - Flex, December 2006
"The best back ever lacked its eye-popping detail and fullness." (in reference to Ronnie at the 06 Mr. Olympia)
1998 Mr. Olympia Contest Review by Max Muscle Sports and Fitness
Only Milos Sarcev, in his evaluation of Mr. Olympia contenders in the last issue of Max Muscle, saw Coleman as having a good chance: "At this time, Ron has the best back in the history of the sport," said Mishko, "even better than Bannout and Haney, or Dorian. Ron's thicker, wider, more pleasing.”
http://www.maxmuscle.com/index.cfm?fa=article&doc_id=22&subcat=body_building
The 20 Best Backs of All Time - Flex, March 2008
4. Lee Haney
3. Joel Stubbs
2. Dorian Yates
1. Ronnie Coleman
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KFY/is_1_26/ai_n24356572/pg_1?tag=artBody;col1
“For much of the '90s, there was little dispute that Yates had the best back ever, and there are many who contend so today. Now, there is a debate, for during the first years of his Olympia reign, Coleman also displayed low-lying, ultrawide lats, but whereas Yates had more grainy ruggedness, Coleman had more feathered refinements. The moments just before he hit his rear lat spread and rear double biceps were contest highlights, as ridges and knots roamed and stripes and crevices emerged, morphing his back into a new and spectacular landscape each time he moved his arms. At his best, his back was like a great symphony orchestra, big and booming, sometimes overwhelming, and yet each finely tuned part played its role precisely.”
None of those are ' fit to judge contests ' ;)
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And subjective quotes work both ways.
Flexonline September 15, 2009
REAR VIEW:
As great as Cutler is from behind, Yates at his best was untouchable from the rear because he had not just the thickest and widest lats but also details like a lumbar Christmas tree. Maybe only two men in history could beat Cutler at his best in both a rear lat spread and a rear double bi, but Yates was one of the two (Coleman being the other).
Ronnie Coleman : DESCRIBE DORIAN YATES: A close friend. Dorian is very intelligent, a great Mr. Olympia. He had the best side-chest pose and the thickest freakiest back I have ever seen.
Samir Bannout who had one of the best backs mind you on Cutler 2001
Jay Cutler blows the other bodybuilders away with the crisp detail of his muscularity from top to bottom. He has superior calves, hamstrings and glutes. His back is detailed and big, but it does not match up well against Ronnie, who has the second-best back in the history of bodybuilding behind the great Dorian Yates
Ronnie has the second best back behind the great Dorian Yates
Ellington Darden, Ph.D. " best back - Dorian Yates " http://www.baye.com/interviews/ellington_darden_interview1.html
FROM MARKUS RUHL
October 2000, FLEX page 166 (notice how it is post 1999)
"DORIAN YATES HAD THE BEST BACK IN THE HISTORY OF BODYBUILDING. HIS LAT SPREAD WAS UNBELIEVABLE. HIS SIZE, MASS, AND CONDITIONING WERE PERFECT,"
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/pro-bodybuilders-pictures/best-back-all-time-you-decide-39990-9.html
Guess who wins? ;)
“For much of the '90s, there was little dispute that Yates had the best back ever, and there are many who contend so today.
all of these quotes are AFTER Ronnie started winning BTW and to claim Ronnie at 247lbs has a thicker back than Dorian at 270lbs is laughable , Ronnie MAYBE at his heaviest had a thicker back than Dorian albeit not as hard or as dry and I'm not convinced of that either especially if you want to compare Dorian preconest 1995 at a similar weight to Ronnie ( 283lbs ) then I really doubt he had a wider , thicker or harder better detailed back
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???
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from an argumentation standpoint this is a pretty good post; it even includes a contrarian statement from the oft-quoted McGough
but seriously, how do you guys do this? the only regular poster in this thread that i understand is groink, who seems to be having fun taunting the ND guy
how can you guys take people who actually think yates had a more impressive physique than coleman so seriously? its mind blowing
It's not a matter of Yates had a more ' impressive physique ' than Ronnie that's a matter of preference , it's a matter of would Dorian beat Ronnie according to the IFBB judging criteria and I think it's pretty clear
but you bring up a good point , if what I'm saying is so absurd and so out of the realm of possibility , these guys would chalk me up as looney and the subject wouldn't even be open for debate , but as I said these guys follow me around and hang on my every word so in the end who is taunting whom? ;D
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Well ,beyond the fact that none of you will change their minds no matter which pic or quote is posted here, the thing is that Dorian changed the name of the game, set new standards. Ronnie IMHO for most parts improved on them but he didn't have the same impact that Dorian did nor did he face the same competition. People should just remember that a guy like Dillett never placed higher than 4th in the 'O, Vince Taylor comes in 5th in '95 (may be the most competitive field ever) etc...Does anyone believe that a guy like Muntzer wouldn't place higher than 9th at the 'O today or during Ronnie's best years (he never fared better)? Labrada, Nasser, Priest, Michael Francois, Clairmonte, Baker, Fux, Matarazzo,...Flex '98 was a shitty oil bag already (he was better at the AC that year) and was nothing compared to his '93 showing for which is lost without the smallest doubt to Dorian. And Levrone: finished second twice against Ronnie just on the basis of his upper body (guy could have shown up in a wheelchair that it wouldn't have made a difference) and twice against Dorian (but in his two best showings ever). Seriously, Ronnie's competition has been guys like Badell, DJ, Orvlle Burke, Titus, Gunter...Not exactly the same.
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how can you guys take people who actually think yates had a more impressive physique than coleman so seriously? its mind blowing
because its fun pointing out how clueless some people are.
especially about bodybuilding 8)
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None of those are ' fit to judge contests ' ;)
"those pics don't count"
" I don't care about 97"
"you had to see dorian in person"
"those people are not fit to judge contests"
...
::)
your list of excuses keeps growing. how pathetic. ::)
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Dorian 270lbs 1997 v Ronnie 284-287Lbs 2003...........Ronnie more Size, Dorian better Condition.
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Dorian 270lbs 1997 v Ronnie 284-287Lbs 2003...........Ronnie more Size, Dorian better Condition.
Good thing for Dorian he still had his back and conditioning that year. Bis really are lacking. I never liked the 2003 Ronnie. He's soft but considering his weight I don't see how could have done better but the proportions are really weird. Hamstrings/ Quads totally unbalanced, bis and tris ratio started to be disconnected also.
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because its fun pointing out how clueless some people are.
especially about bodybuilding 8)
like you know? you still have not been to a pro show and seen them "battle" onstage. shut up already. we get it you love ronnie.
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ND actually thinks the judges are some well educated group of experts.
he doesn't realize that they are "crooked as a politician"
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"those pics don't count"
" I don't care about 97"
"you had to see dorian in person"
"those people are not fit to judge contests"
...
::)
your list of excuses keeps growing. how pathetic. ::)
Oh boy ::) stupid I was using his LOGIC against him dumbass
this is exactly what makes you a complete idiot ,did you see that was in quotations? retard? Neo claimed that , yet another example of your long history of comprehension problems ;)
Hulkster owned again
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ND actually thinks the judges are some well educated group of experts.
he doesn't realize that they are "crooked as a politician"
yeah I realized they were ' crooked as a politician ' in 2000/2001/2002 Mr Olympias
continue the mantra contests are only fixed when Dorian wins
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ND actually thinks the judges are some well educated group of experts.
he doesn't realize that they are "crooked as a politician"
What do they have to gain by Dorian Yates winning?
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Meltdown of biblical proportions.
weight, smeight....it's all about what they look like. Ronnie looks like he's from another planet because of the way he is put together, far superior to the keg.
And also a pro BBers weight claim is utter bullshit 99.9999999% of the time.....but you keep pulling your facts and quotes from your favorite BBing comicbooks mags....we'll keep laughing at you ;) ;D :) ;)
I agree with this, that is why many times before a lighter guys has beaten a heavier one because he had better muscularity, symmetry, conditioning, etc.
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Who said conditioning was more important? I've been stressing the point that NONE of the criteria alone trumps any other part , it's the whole package that determines the winner. however with all things being ' equal ' the determining factor is who is the better conditioned athlete
Gaspari had the conditioning he didn't have the structure of size to compete with Haney , Dorian had all that and beat Haney in the muscularity round in his third pro show ever and his first Olympia despite being 10lbs lighter
fast forward to Ronnie and Dorian , Dorian has the size , structure and conditioning in his favor as well as balance and posing
1998 wouldn't be nearly enough to topple Yates it really wouldn't especially not with bitch-tits
Who said conditioning was more important? I've been stressing the point that NONE of the criteria alone trumps any other part , it's the whole package that determines the winner. however with all things being ' equal ' the determining factor is who is the better conditioned athlete
True, but Ronnie and Dorian wouldn't be equal. Ronnie in 2003 would have more size, Ronnie in 1999 would have better muscularity and possibly symmetry, so they wouldn't be equal as for Dorian's dryness to be the determining factor.
Gaspari had the conditioning he didn't have the structure of size to compete with Haney , Dorian had all that and beat Haney in the muscularity round in his third pro show ever and his first Olympia despite being 10lbs lighter
I can see that, Gaspari's biggest flaw was his structure. Dorian had a good structure.
fast forward to Ronnie and Dorian , Dorian has the size , structure and conditioning in his favor as well as balance and posing
1998 wouldn't be nearly enough to topple Yates it really wouldn't especially not with bitch-tits
Well, we can agree to disagree in the outcome of a 1998 Ronnie vs a 93-95 Dorian. I think we went on this subject in a past thread, so let's just leave it at that.
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yeah I realized they were ' crooked as a politician ' in 2000/2001/2002 Mr Olympias
continue the mantra contests are only fixed when Dorian wins
The only person saying that is you...
The rest of us are saying that there have been political decisions involving many, many BBers..not just Yates...which is universally acknowledged.
But I get it.....Yates is above it all ::)
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True, but Ronnie and Dorian wouldn't be equal. Ronnie in 2003 would have more size, Ronnie in 1999 would have better muscularity and possibly symmetry, so they wouldn't be equal as for Dorian's dryness to be the determining factor.
I can see that, Gaspari's biggest flaw was his structure. Dorian had a good structure.
Well, we can agree to disagree in the outcome of a 1998 Ronnie vs a 93-95 Dorian. I think we went on this subject in a past thread, so let's just leave it at that.
True, but Ronnie and Dorian wouldn't be equal. Ronnie in 2003 would have more size, Ronnie in 1999 would have better muscularity and possibly symmetry, so they wouldn't be equal as for Dorian's dryness to be the determining factor.
Ronnie 03 would have more ' size ' and that's it , it's his worse year for conditioning and balance & proportion , 99 has better muscularity? elaborate on that don't just type it , symmetry? define symmetry as well , at least your understanding of it , in terms of balance & proportion and density & dryness , Dorian wins couple that with being a better poser as well , 99 isn't his best year not according to the experts of himself
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The only person saying that is you...
The rest of us are saying that there have been political decisions involving many, many BBers..not just Yates...which is universally acknowledged.
But I get it.....Yates is above it all ::)
no don't speak for the rest of them , because Hulkster has in fact said not only did Ronnie win without incident ( 2001 ) he in fact ' dominated ' a contest he lost the entire prejudging in by 6 points !
and define ' political decisions '
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What do they have to gain by Dorian Yates winning?
exactly , what?
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Dorian's only questionable win is 1997. Others will say 94 and 96 but that's bullshit considering that it may have been close to the eye of some, but nonetheless Yates was not "given" the title like say Cutler in 2007, Columbu in 1981 and a few others. Same thing with Ronnie in 2001. But from 2002 to 2005, what kind of competition did he have? Those years were probably the less competitive years in Bbing since Lee Haney's first sandows.
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???
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Ronnie 03 would have more ' size ' and that's it , it's his worse year for conditioning and balance & proportion , 99 has better muscularity? elaborate on that don't just type it , symmetry? define symmetry as well , at least your understanding of it , in terms of balance & proportion and density & dryness , Dorian wins couple that with being a better poser as well , 99 isn't his best year not according to the experts of himself
Ronnie 03 would have more ' size ' and that's it , it's his worse year for conditioning and balance & proportion
I agree.
99 has better muscularity? elaborate on that don't just type it , symmetry? define symmetry as well , at least your understanding of it , in terms of balance & proportion and density & dryness , Dorian wins couple that with being a better poser as well , 99 isn't his best year not according to the experts of himself
As far as I know muscularity is not the same as "size" or muscular bulk. Its hard to explain, but a good way to show this is to look at Ronnie's most muscular shots and compare them to Dorian's, Ronnie has better muscularity. I think Shawn Ray had better muscularity than Dorian too. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Symmetry as far as I know refers to not only left/right exactness, but also muscle shape, taper, small joints, aethetics, etc. I also know that it goes hand in hand with proportion.
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Сould Doryan beat this? No he's in his own league
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Well ,beyond the fact that none of you will change their minds no matter which pic or quote is posted here, the thing is that Dorian changed the name of the game, set new standards. Ronnie IMHO for most parts improved on them but he didn't have the same impact that Dorian did nor did he face the same competition. People should just remember that a guy like Dillett never placed higher than 4th in the 'O, Vince Taylor comes in 5th in '95 (may be the most competitive field ever) etc...Does anyone believe that a guy like Muntzer wouldn't place higher than 9th at the 'O today or during Ronnie's best years (he never fared better)? Labrada, Nasser, Priest, Michael Francois, Clairmonte, Baker, Fux, Matarazzo,...Flex '98 was a shitty oil bag already (he was better at the AC that year) and was nothing compared to his '93 showing for which is lost without the smallest doubt to Dorian. And Levrone: finished second twice against Ronnie just on the basis of his upper body (guy could have shown up in a wheelchair that it wouldn't have made a difference) and twice against Dorian (but in his two best showings ever). Seriously, Ronnie's competition has been guys like Badell, DJ, Orvlle Burke, Titus, Gunter...Not exactly the same.
quote for truth. sorry hulkster
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What do they have to gain by Dorian Yates winning?
nothing
point being that the judges fuck up shows all the time
check the david henry thread
most everyone in bodybuilding agrees that the judges don't always do a good job
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I agree.
As far as I know muscularity is not the same as "size" or muscular bulk. Its hard to explain, but a good way to show this is to look at Ronnie's most muscular shots and compare them to Dorian's, Ronnie has better muscularity. I think Shawn Ray had better muscularity than Dorian too. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Symmetry as far as I know refers to not only left/right exactness, but also muscle shape, taper, small joints, aethetics, etc. I also know that it goes hand in hand with proportion.
No it's not the same as muscular bulk , muscularity relates to density & dryness and the ability to clearly see the muscles defined and separated from each other in the absence of bodyfat and water and guess who ruled the roost in this department? Ronnie in some areas shows more detail than Dorian and in some areas more striations it doesn't mean he's carrying more muscle , less fat or less water
striations are genetic obviously you need pretty great conditioning to see them but for the most part they are genetic , which is why some guys have more than others Munzer and have them in some places other don't like Munzer had striations on his rectus femoris and I don't recall seeing anyone else who had them
Dryness is the absence of water that can obscure the muscles from being fully shown , a lot of times you see a reference to Dorian's skin being like tissue paper covering pure muscle , no water or fat to obscure the muscles
Density is the absence of fat from the muscles so in essence all you're left with his pure muscle , again to use Dorian has the reference when they go on about his muscle hardness , which is exactly why Ronnie 1998/2001 is considered his best showings ever because his density & dryness are at their absolute best especially compared to 2003 and 2000
the combination of muscular bulk supplemented by muscle hardness ( density ) and muscle dryness is highly prized by the judges , it really can't be understated , it's extremely hard to tie this all-together in one shot and it was Dorian's hallmark for years and this combo is what saved his ass in 1997 because he was up against a guy who couldn't compete in this area and his severely deficient back
Symmetry doesn't really mean left right exactness , because nothing in nature is truly symmetrical , and right or left hand dominant people are always going to have one arm slighting bigger than the other , one quads etc , now obviously judges look for obvious and glaring signs of this type of discrepancy but in normal contexts on the word it refers to taper , joint size , hip size , waist size AND muscular balance & proportion , Flex is known as the Sultan of Symmetry for the first part of this criteria , and Dorian is know for the second
now the thing with all of this criteria is , it is ALL judged at the exact same time in every single pose from every single angle and no one part of the criteria is more important than the other , if a guy has great symmetry but is severely lacking in density & dryness and is a shitty poser he's not going to win , if a guy is carrying a lot of muscular bulk yet his conditioning sucks he's not gonna do well , it's who meets ALL of the criteria better than who he is being compared to us usually judged the winner
So as I've said before while Ronnie meets part(s) of the criteria better than Dorian , as a whole when everything is being ascertained he doesn't meet ALL of the criteria better.
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Сould Doryan beat this? No he's in his own league
:-X :-X :-X how did you get Hulkster's screen saver?
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nothing
point being that the judges fuck up shows all the time
check the david henry thread
most everyone in bodybuilding agrees that the judges don't always do a good job
You didn't say they made mistakes, you said they were "crooked as politicians." That implies corruption.
From what I've seen here, it's the same thing anyway - the judges got it right when the bodybuilder they like wins, but were politically motivated or just bad when they got it wrong. It's a ridiculous argument.
Anyway, beside from being judges, their opinion should always count more because they were actually at the contest, with the best seats in the house. To look two dimensional photos and try to say you can do a better job is laughable.
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You didn't say they made mistakes, you said they were "crooked as politicians." That implies corruption.
From what I've seen here, it's the same thing anyway - the judges got it right when the bodybuilder they like wins, but were politically motivated or just bad when they got it wrong. It's a ridiculous argument.
Anyway, beside from being judges, their opinion should always count more because they were actually at the contest, with the best seats in the house. To look two dimensional photos and try to say you can do a better job is laughable.
AssGape what did u exactly mean?
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I found a pic of ND's bedroom. Someone has some explaining to do :o
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Dorian%20Yates/ND2a.jpg)
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I found a pic of ND's bedroom. Someone has some explaining to do :o
Projection , look up the word ;)
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because Hulkster has in fact said not only did Ronnie win without incident ( 2001 ) he in fact ' dominated ' a contest he lost the entire prejudging in by 6 points !
yes. and the pics and videos confirmed that he dominated Jay in those rounds.
once again, you assume the scores were accurate in the early rounds.
they were not. like everyone has been trying to get through your thick head for the last few pages..
::)
are you ever going to learn what we all are teaching you? ??? ::)
Luckily for Ronnie in 2001, the judges realized their errors and he ended up winning anyway.
but they really fucked up the judging in those early rounds. Jay had no back, a blocky structure, few details other than quads etc. he was a mess.
even ronnie in not that great shape was much better.
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No it's not the same as muscular bulk , muscularity relates to density & dryness and the ability to clearly see the muscles defined and separated from each other in the absence of bodyfat and water and guess who ruled the roost in this department? Ronnie in some areas shows more detail than Dorian and in some areas more striations it doesn't mean he's carrying more muscle , less fat or less water
striations are genetic obviously you need pretty great conditioning to see them but for the most part they are genetic , which is why some guys have more than others Munzer and have them in some places other don't like Munzer had striations on his rectus femoris and I don't recall seeing anyone else who had them
Dryness is the absence of water that can obscure the muscles from being fully shown , a lot of times you see a reference to Dorian's skin being like tissue paper covering pure muscle , no water or fat to obscure the muscles
Density is the absence of fat from the muscles so in essence all you're left with his pure muscle , again to use Dorian has the reference when they go on about his muscle hardness , which is exactly why Ronnie 1998/2001 is considered his best showings ever because his density & dryness are at their absolute best especially compared to 2003 and 2000
the combination of muscular bulk supplemented by muscle hardness ( density ) and muscle dryness is highly prized by the judges , it really can't be understated , it's extremely hard to tie this all-together in one shot and it was Dorian's hallmark for years and this combo is what saved his ass in 1997 because he was up against a guy who couldn't compete in this area and his severely deficient back
Symmetry doesn't really mean left right exactness , because nothing in nature is truly symmetrical , and right or left hand dominant people are always going to have one arm slighting bigger than the other , one quads etc , now obviously judges look for obvious and glaring signs of this type of discrepancy but in normal contexts on the word it refers to taper , joint size , hip size , waist size AND muscular balance & proportion , Flex is known as the Sultan of Symmetry for the first part of this criteria , and Dorian is know for the second
now the thing with all of this criteria is , it is ALL judged at the exact same time in every single pose from every single angle and no one part of the criteria is more important than the other , if a guy has great symmetry but is severely lacking in density & dryness and is a shitty poser he's not going to win , if a guy is carrying a lot of muscular bulk yet his conditioning sucks he's not gonna do well , it's who meets ALL of the criteria better than who he is being compared to us usually judged the winner
So as I've said before while Ronnie meets part(s) of the criteria better than Dorian , as a whole when everything is being ascertained he doesn't meet ALL of the criteria better.
You mean..."in your opinion"...right?? ;)
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You mean..."in your opinion"...right?? ;)
yes my educated opinion ;)
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yes. and the pics and videos confirmed that he dominated Jay in those rounds.
once again, you assume the scores were accurate in the early rounds.
they were not. like everyone has been trying to get through your thick head for the last few pages..
::)
are you ever going to learn what we all are teaching you? ??? ::)
Luckily for Ronnie in 2001, the judges realized their errors and he ended up winning anyway.
but they really fucked up the judging in those early rounds. Jay had no back, a blocky structure, few details other than quads etc. he was a mess.
even ronnie in not that great shape was much better.
yes all hail the King of excuses Hulkster
you have an opinion , in constantly contradicts facts & reality those of us in the know , laugh at how stupid you are , like when you posted ' two independent sources ' and don't know what ' quotation marks ' are and Ronnie's calves are more detailed and Dorian lost the most dominate Olympia wins in the contests history ;D
you have a position and it's constantly wrong
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yes my educated opinion ;)
did you take "BBing contest judging 101" in college?
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did you take "BBing contest judging 101" in college?
nope , just read many , many books ( and no not comic books either ;) ) on the subject , magazines , articles , IFBB website , as much information as I could get my hands on
like my stupid friend Hulkster , I too thought Dorian should have lost the 1993 Mr Olympia , but this was back in 1993 not currently , I thought Flex looked like a better version of Haney I was completely dumbfounded on how Dorian with his wide waist and unaesthetic physique could possibly beat Flex , I did the old ignorant fanboy take ' It's a fix , the contest was politics , Flex was shafted etc ' one thing that bugged me was why Flex was smiling conceding second place and then proclaiming Dorian was unbeatable , then I learned how contests were judged and just how wrong I was and how far ahead Dorian was
I then did something 99% of people on this board can't do , admit I was wrong and separated what I think should win from what does win , if given the choice on whose physique I would rather have Flex or Dorian , I'd take Flex without a moments hesitation , I would take a host of people's physiques over Dorian's however that doesn't mean Dorian wouldn't beat them
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nope , just read many , many books ( and no not comic books either ;) ) on the subject , magazines , articles , IFBB website , as much information as I could get my hands on
like my stupid friend Hulkster , I too thought Dorian should have lost the 1993 Mr Olympia , but this was back in 1993 not currently , I thought Flex looked like a better version of Haney I was completely dumbfounded on how Dorian with his wide waist and unaesthetic physique could possibly beat Flex , I did the old ignorant fanboy take ' It's a fix , the contest was politics , Flex was shafted etc ' one thing that bugged me was why Flex was smiling conceding second place and then proclaiming Dorian was unbeatable , then I learned how contests were judged and just how wrong I was and how far ahead Dorian was
I then did something 99% of people on this board can't do , admit I was wrong and separated what I think should win from what does win , if given the choice on whose physique I would rather have Flex or Dorian , I'd take Flex without a moments hesitation , I would take a host of people's physiques over Dorian's however that doesn't mean Dorian wouldn't beat them
Internet BBing Expert = serious business. ;D
J/K.....i can respect that
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Internet BBing Expert = serious business. ;D
J/K.....i can respect that
;D
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you have a position and it's constantly corroborated by the visual evidence and eyewitness testimony
fixed.
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Luckily for Ronnie in 2001, the judges realized their errors and he ended up winning anyway.
but they really fucked up the judging in those early rounds. Jay had no back, a blocky structure, few details other than quads etc. he was a mess.
even ronnie in not that great shape was much better.
dude, did you just say that the 2001 version of Jay was a mess??
at that show Jay beat: Levrone, Ray, Cormier, Gunter, Burke, Ruhl, James, ect... So he must have looked pretty good!
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fixed.
fixed for delusion as usual
the ' overwhelming visual evidence ' you provided was A) manipulated , morphed and tampered with and B) led you to so insanely moronic conclusions like Dorian lost in 93 , and Ronnie has more detailed calves , and 98 wasn't close , and 01 Ronnie dominated , etc
you see things that contradict reality and facts.
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dude, did you just say that the 2001 version of Jay was a mess??
at that show Jay beat: Levrone, Ray, Cormier, Gunter, Burke, Ruhl, James, ect... So he must have looked pretty good!
That proves my point , he sees the opposite of reality and contradicts it often. in other words delusional.
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Ditto. Very entertaining and the action scenes were great. No complaints about the female casting either.
the kracken wasnt that dope
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Don't bring Jay Cutler into this, he's a fridge with no fanbase and was on least 5 diuretics in 01 according to the wizard of truth
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Don't bring Jay Cutler into this, he's a fridge with no fanbase and was on least 5 diuretics in 01 according to the wizard of truth
Funny, I recall the Wizard being DQ'd for diuretics one year.
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Funny, I recall the Wizard being DQ'd for diuretics one year.
The man knows diuretics...
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Funny, I recall the Wizard being DQ'd for diuretics one year.
yes he is open about it, but he didn't pitch a fit over it
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yes he is open about it, but he didn't pitch a fit over it
No, he is just stuck in the 90's, bitter over never having won the Olympia, selling soiled underwear and slamming everyone in the industry.
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dude, did you just say that the 2001 version of Jay was a mess??
at that show Jay beat: Levrone, Ray, Cormier, Gunter, Burke, Ruhl, James, ect... So he must have looked pretty good!
yeah, he looked really great LMAO:
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No, he is just stuck in the 90's, bitter over never having won the Olympia, selling soiled underwear and slamming everyone in the industry.
either way my point is proven
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either way my point is proven
It's irrelevant. Nasser can hardly criticize an act that he himself has been guilty of. Of course Nasser is open about it, he got caught. Would he still be, if not for that fact?
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It's irrelevant. Nasser can hardly criticize an act that he himself has been guilty of. Of course Nasser is open about it, he got caught.
the point was cutler was on 5 diuretics and still was not as good as ronnie
nasser has nothing to do with it, he's just the inside source in this case.
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the point was cutler was on 5 diuretics and still was not as good as ronnie
nasser has nothing to do with it, he's just the inside source in this case.
I seem to recall Jay winning the prejudging. Ronnie won ultimately, but who was truly better on that day is up for debate as a result. I would also suggest that Big Bubba was using some "help" to dry out, courtesy of Teh Chad.
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yeah, he looked really great LMAO:
LOL, listen to the commentary on the TV broadcast where Shawn Ray says that Cutler is in better condition than the champion. I've seen the video recorded from American TV that was sent to me and all I can say is Coleman looked like utter shite at 264lbs.
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LOL at 1:35.
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Dorian would look like an amateur next to King Ronnie :o
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Best ever . . .
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Dorian would look like an amateur next to King Ronnie :o
Fuck he looked awful there. Triceps look like they have disappeared, midsection is out of control, holding a shitload of water, lats are severely unbalanced. Now, the 2001 AC, he was absolutely unbeatable. Could be even better then at the 1998 O. One of the 5-6 best showings of all time.
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No it's not the same as muscular bulk , muscularity relates to density & dryness and the ability to clearly see the muscles defined and separated from each other in the absence of bodyfat and water and guess who ruled the roost in this department? Ronnie in some areas shows more detail than Dorian and in some areas more striations it doesn't mean he's carrying more muscle , less fat or less water
striations are genetic obviously you need pretty great conditioning to see them but for the most part they are genetic , which is why some guys have more than others Munzer and have them in some places other don't like Munzer had striations on his rectus femoris and I don't recall seeing anyone else who had them
Dryness is the absence of water that can obscure the muscles from being fully shown , a lot of times you see a reference to Dorian's skin being like tissue paper covering pure muscle , no water or fat to obscure the muscles
Density is the absence of fat from the muscles so in essence all you're left with his pure muscle , again to use Dorian has the reference when they go on about his muscle hardness , which is exactly why Ronnie 1998/2001 is considered his best showings ever because his density & dryness are at their absolute best especially compared to 2003 and 2000
the combination of muscular bulk supplemented by muscle hardness ( density ) and muscle dryness is highly prized by the judges , it really can't be understated , it's extremely hard to tie this all-together in one shot and it was Dorian's hallmark for years and this combo is what saved his ass in 1997 because he was up against a guy who couldn't compete in this area and his severely deficient back
Symmetry doesn't really mean left right exactness , because nothing in nature is truly symmetrical , and right or left hand dominant people are always going to have one arm slighting bigger than the other , one quads etc , now obviously judges look for obvious and glaring signs of this type of discrepancy but in normal contexts on the word it refers to taper , joint size , hip size , waist size AND muscular balance & proportion , Flex is known as the Sultan of Symmetry for the first part of this criteria , and Dorian is know for the second
now the thing with all of this criteria is , it is ALL judged at the exact same time in every single pose from every single angle and no one part of the criteria is more important than the other , if a guy has great symmetry but is severely lacking in density & dryness and is a shitty poser he's not going to win , if a guy is carrying a lot of muscular bulk yet his conditioning sucks he's not gonna do well , it's who meets ALL of the criteria better than who he is being compared to us usually judged the winner
So as I've said before while Ronnie meets part(s) of the criteria better than Dorian , as a whole when everything is being ascertained he doesn't meet ALL of the criteria better.
Interesting information on the judging criteria. I already knew some of it, but I did not know other parts as you explained them in detail here.
As far as 98 Ronnie vs 93-95 Dorian, you say Dorian meets all of the criteria better, but others (myself included) say Ronnie meets it better. Since they never faced each other at their respective bests, we'll will never know the true outcome and just speculate.
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Best ever . . .
Flex in that first video is amazing, I always thought that the only two bb's who could beat Dorian were Ronnie and Flex.
I wonder what would've happened at the 93 Olympia if Flex had shown up like he did at the 93 AC?
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Dorian had some crazy thickness from all Angles that Ronnie lacked.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=357606;image)
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Thickness what?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=358330;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=358331;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=358337;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=358338;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=358339;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=358343;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=358409;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=372974;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=378313;image)
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Fuck he looked awful there. Triceps look like they have disappeared, midsection is out of control, holding a shitload of water, lats are severely unbalanced. Now, the 2001 AC, he was absolutely unbeatable. Could be even better then at the 1998 O. One of the 5-6 best showings of all time
triceps, midsection, and conditioning all look good to me. Dunno what you're smoking ???
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/04%20Dutch%20GP/04DutchGP-RonnieColeman1.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/04%20Dutch%20GP/04DutchGP-RonnieColeman2.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/04%20Dutch%20GP/04DutchGP-RonnieColeman11.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/04%20Dutch%20GP/04DutchGP-RonnieColeman12.jpg)
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Thickness what?
King Ronnie laughs at what you call "thickness"
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/04%20Dutch%20GP/04DutchGP-RonnieColeman4.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/04%20Dutch%20GP/04DutchGP-RonnieColeman5.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/04%20Dutch%20GP/04DutchGP-RonnieColeman9.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/04%20Dutch%20GP/04DutchGP-RonnieColeman10.jpg)
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Interesting information on the judging criteria. I already knew some of it, but I did not know other parts as you explained them in detail here.
As far as 98 Ronnie vs 93-95 Dorian, you say Dorian meets all of the criteria better, but others (myself included) say Ronnie meets it better. Since they never faced each other at their respective bests, we'll will never know the true outcome and just speculate.
no ND knows for fact
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King Ronnie laughs at what you call "thickness"
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/04%20Dutch%20GP/04DutchGP-RonnieColeman4.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/04%20Dutch%20GP/04DutchGP-RonnieColeman5.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/04%20Dutch%20GP/04DutchGP-RonnieColeman9.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/04%20Dutch%20GP/04DutchGP-RonnieColeman10.jpg)
Epic keeping the camera above the knees to enable nut-huggers to suck their own dicks.
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triceps, midsection, and conditioning all look good to me. Dunno what you're smoking ???
He's spot-on dude , in the side triceps Ronnie's lateral head looks like some took an eraser to it :-\ his midsection looks horrible like he said it's out of control and his conditioning? oh-boy compared to 98/01 it's night & day and his balance & conditioning are again at their worse , there is a very good reason his prime showings are his lightest
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no ND knows for fact
Yeah just like you know for a fact contests are fixed ::)
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Epic filming above the knees to enable nut-huggers to suck their own dicks.
don't know why everything has to be about cocks for you. Are you gay, brah?
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Interesting information on the judging criteria. I already knew some of it, but I did not know other parts as you explained them in detail here.
As far as 98 Ronnie vs 93-95 Dorian, you say Dorian meets all of the criteria better, but others (myself included) say Ronnie meets it better. Since they never faced each other at their respective bests, we'll will never know the true outcome and just speculate.
Entertaining Dorian would face Ronnie 1998 and it would be close , Ronnie would lose just based on bitch tits , and lets entertain conditioning is equal , Dorian is still carrying more muscular bulk with equal conditioning not bitch tits , now factor in the fact Dorian has better balance & proportion and he's more complete , again the strengths just are too much for Ronnie
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He's spot-on dude , in the side triceps Ronnie's lateral head looks like some took an eraser to it his midsection looks horrible like he said it's out of control and his conditioning? oh-boy compared to 98/01 it's night & day and his balance & conditioning are again at their worse , there is a very good reason his prime showings are his lightest
oh lordy, you guys crack me up! I posted several pics showing Ronnie weighing 301 lbs posing without a gut. If you want to penalize someone for their midsection when their not flexing, then Dorian had a gut in 93 and 95 AND was 45 lbs lighter. There's no excuse for that. At least Ronnie had size on the rest of his frame to make up for it
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Dorian%20Yates/93%20Mr%20Olympia/DorianYates-FatCow5.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Dorian%20Yates/93%20Mr%20Olympia/DorianYates-FatCow3.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Dorian%20Yates/95%20Mr%20Olympia/DorianYates-FatCow15.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Dorian%20Yates/95%20Mr%20Olympia/DorianYates-FatCow12.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Dorian%20Yates/95%20Mr%20Olympia/DorianYates-FatCow11.jpg)
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oh lordy, you guys crack me up! I posted several pics showing Ronnie weighing 301 lbs posing without a gut. If you want to penalize someone for their midsection when their not flexing, then Dorian had a gut in 93 and 95 AND was 45 lbs lighter. There's no excuse for that. At least Ronnie had size on the rest of his frame to make up for it
You as usual just glossed right over the fact we said it looked horrible , not just the distension , the lack of crisp muscularity , razor sharp definition of the abdominals , serratus , intercostals , obliques , etc
he's 301lbs? and you thin for one moments that 45 extra pounds are muscle? it's not he's carrying a lot of sq fat and he's holding water
in order for Ronnie to be on par with Dorian's density & dryness he would be about 247lbs ;)
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You as usual just glossed right over the fact we said it looked horrible , not just the distension , the lack of crisp muscularity , razor sharp definition of the abdominals , serratus , intercostals , obliques , etc
that's genetics - nothing much he can do about it
isn't that your excuse whenever we point out Dorian's lack of crisp muscularity and razor sharp definition? ;)
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supposedly the best physique of all-time here according to ND :-\
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Dorian%20Yates/95%20Mr%20Olympia/DorianYates-FatCow15.jpg)
can't even compare to a 301 lbs Ronnie "carrying a lot of sq fat and he's holding water" and whose "midsection looks horrible"
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/04%20Dutch%20GP/04DutchGP-RonnieColeman2.jpg)
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supposedly the best physique of all-time here according to ND :-\
can't even compare to a 301 lbs Ronnie "carrying a lot of sq fat and he's holding water" and whose "midsection looks horrible"
Neo you're doing a classic Hulkster posting an flexed/unflexed ' comparison ' same contest
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Neo you're doing a classic Hulkster posting an flexed/unflexed ' comparison ' same contest
they're both unflexed, dummy. If anything, Dorian is flexing in the line-up while Ronnie is in the middle of transition
no wonder people think you're slow :-\
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that's genetics - nothing much he can do about it
isn't that your excuse whenever we point out Dorian's lack of crisp muscularity and razor sharp definition? ;)
No Neo , that's not genetics that's lack of conditioning his midsection was sharper when hes lighter
and pay attention Neo , striations are genetic and when you can't see the striations Ronnie had previously guess what's obscuring them?
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No Neo , that's not genetics that's lack of conditioning his midsection was sharper when hes lighter
no ND, that's not a matter of conditioning - that's genetics. His midsection has always looked like that, even when he's at a lighter weight
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they're both unflexed, dummy. If anything, Dorian is flexing in the line-up while Ronnie is in the middle of transition
no wonder people think you're slow :-\
Boy it doesn't take you long to get sensitive and start name calling ;)
Ronnie is NOT unflexed stop the nonsense anyone with a brain can watch the video and see he's flexed
slow people think I'm slow because they can't comprehend much
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Boy it doesn't take you long to get sensitive and start name calling
brah, I call it like I see it. You = dummy
Ronnie is NOT unflexed stop the nonsense anyone with a brain can watch the video and see he's flexed
Anyone with a brain can watch the video of Dorian and see that he's flexed also. So that cancels out your argument
what's your excuse now for Dorian weighing 257 lbs and having a worse gut than Ronnie at 301 lbs?
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Dorian%20Yates/95%20Mr%20Olympia/DorianYates-FatCow15.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/04%20Dutch%20GP/04DutchGP-RonnieColeman2.jpg)
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no ND, that's not a matter of conditioning - that's genetics. His midsection has always looked like that, even when he's at a lighter weight
WRONG the shape of his muscles have always been that way , that's genetics , the crisp muscularity is a matter of conditioning which compared to his lighter versions is lacking
take a wild guess which version is harder & drier
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WRONG the shape of his muscles have always been that way , that's genetics , the crisp muscularity is a matter of conditioning which compared to his lighter versions is lacking
take a wild guess which version is harder & drier
nice try but the pic of heavier Ronnie is from the 04 Mr Olympia. What does that have to do with the Dutch GP? Also, you can't compare 2 different poses taken in different lighting conditions. In the studio shot of Ronnie, the photographer is coaching him to flex all his muscles and probably told him to tense his abs. We also don't know how many shots it took to get that 1 great pic of him. Onstage is much less forgiving
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brah, I call it like I see it. You = dummy
Anyone with a brain can watch the video of Dorian and see that he's flexed also. So that cancels out your argument
what's your excuse now for Dorian weighing 257 lbs and having a worse gut than Ronnie at 301 lbs?
you call like you see it? yeah and you're often wrong , Mr balance & proportion are the same thing and Ronnie's carrying more muscular bulk at 247lbs than Dorian at 269lbs ;)
I just posted a picture of Dorian fully flexed from the same contest and night & day difference between the unflexed screencap of Dorian , you didn't dare comment on it ;D
yes a worse gut than Ronnie at 247/264/287/300lbs
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^^^
hahaha, I was waiting to see how many posts it would take for you to crack ;D
what do any of those pics have to do with the Dutch GP from which the pics I posted came from?
in before more excuses and deflections
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nice try but the pic of heavier Ronnie is from the 04 Mr Olympia. What does that have to do with the Dutch GP? Also, you can't compare 2 different poses taken in different lighting conditions. In the studio shot of Ronnie, the photographer is coaching him to flex all his muscles and probably told him to tense his abs. We also don't know how many shots it took to get that 1 great pic of him. Onstage is much less forgiving
Please tell me you're claiming he's just as hard and as dry as he was at the 01ASC? ;D
and I'll tell you what it has to do with the dutch GP , the bigger Ronnie got , the worse his density & dryness became and his balance & proportion ( two separate entities FYI ;) ) which is why the vast majority of EXPERTS concur his lightest showings are his best showings
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Please tell me you're claiming he's just as hard and as dry as he was at the 01ASC?
and I'll tell you what it has to do with the dutch GP , the bigger Ronnie got , the worse his density & dryness became and his balance & proportion ( two separate entities FYI ) which is why the vast majority of EXPERTS concur his lightest showings are his best showings
lmao @ you trying to connect the dots "he looked better at a lighter weight so he must have looked worse the heavier he got in a linear fashion" ;D
I don't know why you're going off on a tangent about conditioning when all I'm talking about is his genetics for his midsection
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lmao @ you trying to connect the dots "he looked better at a lighter weight so he must have looked worse the heavier he got in a linear fashion" ;D
I don't know why you're going off on a tangent about conditioning when all I'm talking about is his genetics for his midsection
No trying to connect the dots what so ever , it's a FACT the heavier he became the more his conditioning suffered , as well as is balance & proportion
No you're the one who glossed over the fact that not only was his gut out of control at this contest , but his razor sharp conditioning ( all over ) but in his midsection was lacking , you're the one that tried to claim Dorian's gut was worse then proceeded to post a pic of a flex Ronnie and an unflexed Dorian as ' proof ' ::)
Ronnie's GUT was ever present at this contest , his crisp muscularity was a thing of the past and he was carrying a lot more water and SQ fat compared to his best showings
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^^^
hahaha, I was waiting to see how many posts it would take for you to crack ;D
what do any of those pics have to do with the Dutch GP from which the pics I posted came from?
in before more excuses and deflections
Oh yeah says the puppy who just wondered into another Yates thread begging for my attention ;) ' oh please look at me , look at me '
posting pics of an unflexed Dorian and a flexed Ronnie talking about he's got a bigger gut despite being down 45 lbs who's cracking fan-boy? ;)
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supposedly the best physique of all-time here according to ND :-\
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Dorian%20Yates/95%20Mr%20Olympia/DorianYates-FatCow15.jpg)
Dorian fully flexed in the same pose ;)
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uh oh, ND is really getting desperate folks. Why did you post a front shot of Dorian to 'prove' he didn't have a gut? Why do you keep claiming he wasn't flexed in the pic of him in the line-up during prejudging? Kevin is flexing right next to him, lol. And lmao @ the best you can do is post a pic of Ronnie at the 04 Dutch GP with a gut that's no worse than Dorian's when he weighed 45 lbs less, bwahahaha. Epic backfire
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uh oh, ND is really getting desperate folks. Why did you post a front shot of Dorian to 'prove' he didn't have a gut? Why do you keep claiming he wasn't flexed in the pic of him in the line-up during prejudging? Kevin is flexing right next to him, lol. And lmao @ the best you can do is post a pic of Ronnie at the 04 Dutch GP with a gut that's no worse than Dorian's when he weighed 45 lbs less, bwahahaha. Epic backfire
desperate is posting a pic of Ronnie head-on flexed compared to one of Dorian from the side unflexed ;) and that would be you
and yeah because Kevin is flexed so that must mean Dorian is flexed too , dummy anyone?
you keep mistaken the 45 extra pounds as muscle and it's not , Ronnie's gut at 247lbs is BIGGER than Dorian's at 260lbs and this is Ronnie at his best ;)
you followed me into another thread only to get corrected on all your lame arguments , the backfire is on you fanboy
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how is Ronnie's gut at 301 lbs...
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=343546.0;attach=378670;image)
any worse than Dorian's at 257 lbs? ???
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how is Ronnie's gut at 301 lbs...
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=343546.0;attach=378670;image)
any worse than Dorian's at 257 lbs? ???
it's not, end of story
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desperate is posting a pic of Ronnie head-on flexed compared to one of Dorian from the side unflexed ;) and that would be you
and yeah because Kevin is flexed so that must mean Dorian is flexed too , dummy anyone?
you keep mistaken the 45 extra pounds as muscle and it's not , Ronnie's gut at 247lbs is BIGGER than Dorian's at 260lbs and this is Ronnie at his best ;)
you followed me into another thread only to get corrected on all your lame arguments , the backfire is on you fanboy
they both had guts when they let them hang, and the both had tight midsections when flexed...please stfu already.
Dorian had better abdominals as far as the abs themselves, Ronnie had a naturally smaller waist and better taper. kind of a draw IMO
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they both had guts when they let them hang, and the both had tight midsections when flexed...please stfu already.
Dorian had better abdominals as far as the abs themselves, Ronnie had a naturally smaller waist and better taper. kind of a draw IMO
I know they both had guts when they let them hang , you'll get no argument from me on that subject.
Dorian had a better ab-thigh pose IMO
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how is Ronnie's gut at 301 lbs...
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=343546.0;attach=378670;image)
any worse than Dorian's at 257 lbs? ???
247lbs :-\
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^
every time ND posts the massive gut at the AC it verifies that Ronnie was in better shape at the 99 O. with more fullness and much less of a gut.
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don't know why this is an argument.
when both ronnie and dorian weighed 257 and at their respective bests, (99 olympia and 93 olympia) Ronnie's gut was much smaller than dorian's.
way smaller. in fact, it was so small it was never even mentioned in ND's precious Flex magazine until the 2000 Olympia when it ballooned up and Kevin kept pointing at it..
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^
no contest there.
top is a classical physique.
bottom is a blocky powerlifter fridge type ugly mess
;D
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alright nuthuggers, I am off on a fishing trip.
I will continue to own your sorry asses in a week. :P
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how is Ronnie's gut at 301 lbs...
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=343546.0;attach=378670;image)
any worse than Dorian's at 257 lbs? ???
Because Ronnies about 30 lbs off from actually being in contest shape. He could get away with that shit cause everyone else sucked then, but he looked like shit from a conditioning standpoint, plain and simple.
Hell, his trademark striated glutes are almost nonexistant in your photos, and he HAS to be way the fuck off in his conditioning for those to become blurred. He has those fucking things 20 lbs from contest weight, so that should tell you something. And Neo, youre just being stupid trying to provoke ND and to get him to crack and you know it, posting unflexed shots vs flexed shots, and claiming the random shit you claim. Look, we get it, you think size trumps everything else, and it doesnt, not when you come to the show looking like a guest poser should. ::)
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alright nuthuggers, I am off on a fishing trip.
I will continue to own your sorry asses in a week. :P
in other words thread over
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Dorian would look like an amateur next to King Ronnie :o
Yes very impressive size wise, massive muscle bellys etc... the Conditioning aspect would be the Telling factor that could work against Ronnie V Yates, its all speculation @ best.
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^
every time ND posts the massive gut at the AC it verifies that Ronnie was in better shape at the 99 O. with more fullness and much less of a gut.
no if you could get ANYONE to agree with you and by anyone I mean that matters not like-minded ( i.e. feeble minded ) people who mistakenly believe that ' extra ' fullness is dense muscle and the gut? oppppssssss forgot about his gut in 99 huh? well let me remind you ;)
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in other words thread over
in other words trolling over
for now
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Because Ronnies about 30 lbs off from actually being in contest shape. He could get away with that shit cause everyone else sucked then, but he looked like shit from a conditioning standpoint, plain and simple.
Hell, his trademark striated glutes are almost nonexistant in your photos, and he HAS to be way the fuck off in his conditioning for those to become blurred. He has those fucking things 20 lbs from contest weight, so that should tell you something. And Neo, youre just being stupid trying to provoke ND and to get him to crack and you know it, posting unflexed shots vs flexed shots, and claiming the random shit you claim. Look, we get it, you think size trumps everything else, and it doesnt, not when you come to the show looking like a guest poser should. ::)
He cracked if anyone , he's back in another Yates thread begging for my attention posting unflexed pics of Dorian to ones of a flexed Ronnie and I cracked by pointing it out , great logic ::)
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Because Ronnies about 30 lbs off from actually being in contest shape. He could get away with that shit cause everyone else sucked then, but he looked like shit from a conditioning standpoint, plain and simple. Hell, his trademark striated glutes are almost nonexistant in your photos, and he HAS to be way the fuck off in his conditioning for those to become blurred. He has those fucking things 20 lbs from contest weight, so that should tell you something.
then Dorian in 95 was 20 lbs off from actually being in contest shape b/c his separated quads were nonexistant. He has to be way the fuck off in his conditioning for those to become blurred. ;)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=343546.0;attach=378679;image)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/yates/dy126.jpg)
as for Ronnie, while I agree he didn't have the same conditioning as the 01 ASC, he was nowhere near out of shape as you say. No matter how hard you or ND try to exaggerate his conditioning, it's easily refuted by pics showing Ronnie's feathered lats and shredded lower body
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/04%20Dutch%20GP/04DutchGP-RonnieColeman2.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/04%20Dutch%20GP/04DutchGP-RonnieColeman4.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/04%20Dutch%20GP/04DutchGP-RonnieColeman6a.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/04%20Dutch%20GP/04DutchGP-RonnieColeman12.jpg)
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no if you could get ANYONE to agree with you and by anyone I mean that matters not like-minded ( i.e. feeble minded ) people who mistakenly believe that ' extra ' fullness is dense muscle and the gut? oppppssssss forgot about his gut in 99 huh? well let me remind you ;)
STILL SMALL COMPARED TO THE AC!
::)
what are you going to say now? ::)
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then Dorian in 95 was 20 lbs off from actually being in contest shape b/c his separated quads were nonexistant. He has to be way the fuck off in his conditioning for those to become blurred. ;)
as for Ronnie, while I agree he didn't have the same conditioning as the 01 ASC, he was nowhere near out of shape as you say. No matter how hard you or ND try to exaggerate his conditioning, it's easily refuted by pics showing Ronnie's feathered lats and shredded lower body
oppps someone forgot that Dorian TORE his quad in 94 and this would explained that and the best part is you are actually saying that Dorian in what is considered one of his best contest showings is out of shape by 20lbs which again contradicts reality
and there is NO exaggerated claims about his conditioning , it sucks compared to 01 and to Dorian wow feather lats LMFAO Dorian had a x-mass tree at 300lbs that's not proof he was in great shape all over , he's huge and soft if you remove all the sq fat and water from Ronnie you have a 250lb bodybuilder with REAL conditioning , density & dryness
which is why 2001/1998 are considered his best showings and NOT 2003 or this contest
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STILL SMALL COMPARED TO THE AC!
::)
what are you going to say now? ::)
I say you're really grasping at straws ( nothing new ) his gut was there , huge and ever present , to bad he didn't have the conditioning in 99 to back it up ;)
:-\
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oppps someone forgot that Dorian TORE his quad in 94 and this would explained that and the best part is you are actually saying that Dorian in what is considered one of his best contest showings is out of shape by 20lbs which again contradicts reality
which quad? b/c I honestly can't tell, lol
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which quad? b/c I honestly can't tell, lol
There's a LOT of things about competitive bodybuilder you can't tell ;) try reading a book or two on the subject :D
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There's a LOT of things about competitive bodybuilder you can't tell try reading a book or two on the subject
trying to guess which quad is the torn one when both look like shit is not one of them ;)
now are you going to tell us or are you going to keep pretending a torn muscle is the reason both his quads have non-existent striations?
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trying to guess which quad is the torn one when both look like shit is not one of them ;)
now are you going to tell us or are you going to keep pretending a torn muscle is the reason both his quads have non-existent striations?
he never had striated quads , striated quads don't mean his quads aren't free of sq fat and water , striations are genetic and obviously need great conditioning to be seen
Why is it I can NOT find a single picture of Ronnie with the same striations in his quads after he started winning the Olympia? we know he has the genetics for striations but where are they? ???
same with his delts compared from 97 to 99 gone , gone , gone baby , where are they? I kno what would explain that do you?
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he never had striated quads , striated quads don't mean his quads are free of sq fat and water , striations are genetic and obviously need great conditioning to be seen
I meant separated quads. Which one is the torn one, and how does that explain both of his quads sucking?
Why is it I can NOT find a single picture of Ronnie with the same striations in his quads after he started winning the Olympia? we know he has the genetics for striations but where are they?
same with his delts compared from 97 to 99 gone , gone , gone baby , where are they? I kno what would explain that do you?
ah, good. So you concede that conditioning is irrelevant since Ronnie had better conditioning at the 01 ASC and less definition in his quads compared to 97
gotcha ;)
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I meant separated quads. Which one is the torn one, and how does that explain both of his quads sucking?
ah, good. So you concede that conditioning is irrelevant since Ronnie had better conditioning at the 01 ASC and less definition in his quads compared to 97
gotcha ;)
I meant separated quads. Which one is the torn one, and how does that explain both of his quads sucking?
you said striated , I can only go by what you type , and his quads suck compared to who?
ah, good. So you concede that conditioning is irrelevant since Ronnie had better conditioning at the 01 ASC and less definition in his quads compared to 97
still avoiding questions huh? oh yeah conditioning is totally irrelevant it doesn't matter in the least and if that were the case why then is 01 considered his best and not 2003? ;) ;D ;)
still waiting for you to answer the questions
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Why does Dorian have striated traps yet Ronnie doesn't? sure not because Ronnie's traps aren't well defined and free of sq fat and water
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don't know why this is an argument.
when both ronnie and dorian weighed 257 and at their respective bests, (99 olympia and 93 olympia) Ronnie's gut was much smaller than dorian's.
way smaller. in fact, it was so small it was never even mentioned in ND's precious Flex magazine until the 2000 Olympia when it ballooned up and Kevin kept pointing at it..
Why don't you post pics of Dorian actually hitting the pose for your comparisons??
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Can you not see the difference??
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Why don't you post pics of Dorian actually hitting the pose for your comparisons??
because he's deathly afraid , he fears Dorian at his best which is why he's known for posting only Dorian at his worse and he fears Dorian fully flexed and when pushed on his trolling he'll post a good pic and then " see Dorian still loses " it's his m.o. his buddy Neo is the same way posts unflxed pics of Dorian and cries look
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Why does Dorian have striated traps yet Ronnie doesn't? sure not because Ronnie's traps aren't well defined and free of sq fat and water
genetics ;)
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genetics ;)
No, its called conditioning is unimportant to you compared to size.
You want to see size, and if thats at the expense of losing his dead nuts conditioning, youre ok with that.
But according to the actual IFBB judging criteria (You know, what was written by the officials as how youre supposed to judge a contest) Conditioning is of the highest priority.
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hey ND, why does Ronnie have split biceps and Dorian doesn't? Must be a lack of dat der conditioning ;)
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because he's deathly afraid , he fears Dorian at his best which is why he's known for posting only Dorian at his worse and he fears Dorian fully flexed and when pushed on his trolling he'll post a good pic and then " see Dorian still loses " it's his m.o. his buddy Neo is the same way posts unflxed pics of Dorian and cries look
Yep. At their respective bests, Dorian -v- Ronnie could go either way. Not sure whey they're so hypersensitive about this...it's kinda strange.
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Can you not see the difference??
Flex is winning all three of those shots :D
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No, its called conditioning is unimportant to you compared to size.
riiiiight, when I've pointed out Ronnie's advantage in striations and separations numerous times, ND claims it's just "genetics"
However, when Dorian has the advantage in striations or separations in a certain body part (e.g. traps or midsection), all of a sudden it's due to conditioning
does the Dorian fanboyism know now bounds?
You want to see size, and if thats at the expense of losing his dead nuts conditioning, youre ok with that. But according to the actual IFBB judging criteria (You know, what was written by the officials as how youre supposed to judge a contest) Conditioning is of the highest priority.
no, not really. There is more to the judging criteria than just muscular bulk or definition. If conditioning were most important, than Gaspari would have a few Mr. Olympia titles and Dexter would have beaten Ronnie Coleman. The better physique is the one that meets the judging criteria better than the rest. What Ronnie sacrifices in conditioning, he makes up for in size
at what point do you tilt the bar in favor of one bodybuilder or the other? When the difference in one criteria outweighs the other. Ronnie's size at 301 lbs > Dorian's conditioning at 257 lbs. This is not just a wild guess by some random person on the internet. This is the precedent set by the judges at the Mr. Olympia who decided Haney beat Gaspari and Ronnie beat Dexter Jackson
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genetics ;)
'
exactly my point , see you can teach an old dog new tricks , good boy
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hey ND, why does Ronnie have split biceps and Dorian doesn't? Must be a lack of dat der conditioning ;)
Genetics ;)
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Genetics ;)
X2 Genetics rule. You can take all the drugs you want genetics will always prevail.
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X2 Genetics rule. You can take all the drugs you want genetics will always prevail.
so what you're saying is Ronnie > Dorian b/c Ronnie has better genetics?
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riiiiight, when I've pointed out Ronnie's advantage in striations and separations numerous times, ND claims it's just "genetics"
However, when Dorian has the advantage in striations or separations in a certain body part (e.g. traps or midsection), all of a sudden it's due to conditioning
does the Dorian fanboyism know now bounds?
no, not really. There is more to the judging criteria than just muscular bulk or definition. If conditioning were most important, than Gaspari would have a few Mr. Olympia titles and Dexter would have beaten Ronnie Coleman. The better physique is the one that meets the judging criteria better than the rest. What Ronnie sacrifices in conditioning, he makes up for in size
at what point do you tilt the bar in favor of one bodybuilder or the other? When the difference in one criteria outweighs the other. Ronnie's size at 301 lbs > Dorian's conditioning at 257 lbs. This is not just a wild guess by some random person on the internet. This is the precedent set by the judges at the Mr. Olympia who decided Haney beat Gaspari and Ronnie beat Dexter Jackson
riiiiight, when I've pointed out Ronnie's advantage in striations and separations numerous times, ND claims it's just "genetics"
However, when Dorian has the advantage in striations or separations in a certain body part (e.g. traps or midsection), all of a sudden it's due to conditioning
absolutely , and NOT it's not due to conditioning it's genetics however you obviously need great conditioning for the striations to be seen
no, not really. There is more to the judging criteria than just muscular bulk or definition. If conditioning were most important, than Gaspari would have a few Mr. Olympia titles and Dexter would have beaten Ronnie Coleman. The better physique is the one that meets the judging criteria better than the rest. What Ronnie sacrifices in conditioning, he makes up for in size
absolutely there is more to the criteria than just bulk and definition , like I've said with all thing being ' equal ' the better conditioned athlete usually wins , Gaspari was NOT equal in terms of structure compared with Haney or , muscular bulk and the same applies to Dex
you insist on mistaken size with dense , dry muscle , the same would apply to Nasser who was down conditioning but made up for it in size but was still beaten by Shawn Ray who was nearly 80lbs lighter
at what point do you tilt the bar in favor of one bodybuilder or the other? When the difference in one criteria outweighs the other. Ronnie's size at 301 lbs > Dorian's conditioning at 257 lbs. This is not just a wild guess by some random person on the internet. This is the precedent set by the judges at the Mr. Olympia who decided Haney beat Gaspari and Ronnie beat Dexter Jackson
WRONG absolutely wrong , still having a problem grasping how contests are judged. one PART of the criteria doesn't supercede the rest it's who meets ALL of the criteria better is usually declared the winner
Ronnie at 301 lbs has an advantage in size ONLY that's it , he clearly doesn't have an advantage in terms of density & dryness , he clearly doesn't have an advantage in balance & proportion , he's clearly not a better poser , you mistakenly keep insisting the extra 45lbs is pure muscle and it's not
Dorian at 257lbs meets more of ALL of the criteria than Ronnie at 300lbs does it's a no brainer , there is a very good reason why 2001 is considered Ronnie's best and not 2003 or this showing , it's because his ( key word his ) balance & proportion is much better when he's lighter , his density & dryness are night & day , you can't escape these facts try as you might
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so what you're saying is Ronnie > Dorian b/c Ronnie has better genetics?
Better genetics for what? a complete balanced physique? NOPE a harder , drier physique ? NOPE
Ronnie has awesome genetics , his symmetry ( small waist , hips , joints ) is awesome his physique is very impressive , like I've always maintained he has advantages in parts of the criteria over Yates but not all of it.
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Yep. At their respective bests, Dorian -v- Ronnie could go either way. Not sure whey they're so hypersensitive about this...it's kinda strange.
Because Muscular Development taught them Ronnie was unbeatable and untouchable and NO ONE could ever compare and they bought it hook line and sinker
they scoff at the idea of Dorian being compared to Ronnie , as if his name was Cutler ::) who beat Ronnie
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absolutely , and NOT it's not due to conditioning it's genetics however you obviously need great conditioning for the striations to be seen
no shit Sherlock. This is what I've been saying all along. Flex had great genetics for separations and striations too, but he still had smooth glutes and hams. Every bodybuilder displays better definition when they lose fat and water but there are also areas that won't be as shredded no matter how conditioned they are
Dorian's quads and delts lacked definition and Ronnie's midsection lacked definition. It goes both ways. For you to claim Ronnie's definition is the result of genetics and his shortcomings are due to poor conditioning whereas Dorian's definition is the result of hard-work while his shortcomings are just "genetic" shows what a hypocrite you are
absolutely there is more to the criteria than just bulk and definition , like I've said with all thing being ' equal ' the better conditioned athlete usually wins , Gaspari was NOT equal in terms of structure compared with Haney or , muscular bulk and the same applies to Dex
you insist on mistaken size with dense , dry muscle , the same would apply to Nasser who was down conditioning but made up for it in size but was still beaten by Shawn Ray who was nearly 80lbs lighter
I'm glad you agree there is more to the judging criteria than just conditioning. Ronnie's size advantage at 301 lbs would outweigh Dorian's conditioning at 257 lbs (44 lbs difference, lol) for the same reason 03 Ronnie beat Dexter who had better conditioning, symmetry, and balance.
WRONG absolutely wrong , still having a problem grasping how contests are judged. one PART of the criteria doesn't supercede the rest it's who meets ALL of the criteria better is usually declared the winner
that's what I said. Re-read it again:
"There is more to the judging criteria than just muscular bulk or definition. The better physique is the one that meets the judging criteria better than the rest."
care to remind us again why you earned the title of reading illiterate? ;)
Ronnie at 301 lbs has an advantage in size ONLY that's it , he clearly doesn't have an advantage in terms of density & dryness , he clearly doesn't have an advantage in balance & proportion , he's clearly not a better poser , you mistakenly keep insisting the extra 45lbs is pure muscle and it's not
lol, why are you repeating yourself? In that case, Ronnie has the advantage in muscular bulk, size, and mass. He also had better definition, separations, and striations. Oh look, Ronnie has more adjectives in his favor, lmao
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no shit Sherlock. This is what I've been saying all along. Flex had great genetics for separations and striations too, but he still had smooth glutes and hams. Every bodybuilder displays better definition when they lose fat and water but there are also areas that won't be as shredded no matter how conditioned they are. Dorian's quads and delts lacked definition and Ronnie's midsection lacked definition. It goes both ways. For you to claim Ronnie's definition is the result of genetics and Dorian's are the result of hard-work just shows what a hypocrite you are
I'm glad you agree there is more to the judging criteria than just conditioning. Ronnie's size advantage at 301 lbs would outweigh Dorian's conditioning at 257 lbs (44 lbs difference, lol) for the same reason 03 Ronnie beat Dexter who had better conditioning, symmetry, and balance.
that's what I said. Re-read it again:
"There is more to the judging criteria than just muscular bulk or definition. The better physique is the one that meets the judging criteria better than the rest."
care to remind us again why you earned the title of reading illiterate? ;)
lol, why are you repeating yourself? In that case, Ronnie has the advantage in muscular bulk, size, and mass. He also had better definition, separations, and striations. Oh look, Ronnie has more adjectives in his favor, lmao
no shit Sherlock. This is what I've been saying all along. Flex had great genetics for separations and striations too, but he still had smooth glutes and hams. Every bodybuilder displays better definition when they lose fat and water but there are also areas that won't be as shredded no matter how conditioned they are. Dorian's quads and delts lacked definition and Ronnie's midsection lacked definition. It goes both ways. For you to claim Ronnie's definition is the result of genetics and Dorian's are the result of hard-work just shows what a hypocrite you are
you're wrong as usual , Ronnie's midsection didn't lack ' definition ' look at the exact same pic I posted of his striated quads and look at the crisp definition of his abdominals , serratus , intercostals and obliques , he had a really right defined midsection and guess what happened the heavier he became? it was washed out , it had nothing to do with genetics for not being defined in that area because we already seen that he was , the same with Flex in 1993 ASC his hams & glutes looked a lot better , you guessed it when he was lighter , see a trend here? Dorian's quads & delts lacked separation ::) you're delusional as usual , you're using an example of a torn muscle to bitch about separation was proof of lacking definition
and where did I ever once claim Dorian's definition is the result or hard work and Ronnie's isn't ? provide proof for that gem sport.
I'm glad you agree there is more to the judging criteria than just conditioning. Ronnie's size advantage at 301 lbs would outweigh Dorian's conditioning at 257 lbs (44 lbs difference, lol) for the same reason 03 Ronnie beat Dexter who had better conditioning, symmetry, and balance.
No slick I've been preaching for a very long time now there is more to the criteria than ANY one part of it. Ronnie's ' size ' advantage isn't dense hard muscle so it's not much of an advantage and poor stupid Neo always trying to connect the dots , if Ronnie beat Dex because of A and B , he would beat Dorian because of the same , freshman logic at best , Dorian isn't Dexter and Dex doesn't have an advantage in symmetry or balance over Ronnie , more generalazations bent to fit your warped logic
Shawn beat Nasser despite being more than twice as light ( 80lbs vs the 40lbs you're proposing ) as the advantage Ronnie would have over Dorian , and to further show how pathetic your line of thinking is , Ronnie had a vast size advantage of Dexter in 2007 and he placed behind Dexter Jackson ! thanks for playing , you're over simplifying things to make your point of view work and that's not how it's done , Flex
Another example , Flex weighing 230lbs with a better symmetry and conditioning beating a much heavier Nasser , your ' extra weight ' theory is full of holes and plenty of examples of it not working , Dorian vs Paul Dillett , Lou Ferrigno , shall I continue?
"There is more to the judging criteria than just muscular bulk or definition. The better physique is the one that meets the judging criteria better than the rest."
care to remind us again why you earned the title of reading illiterate? ;)
Oh I like how you omitted the part about weight , you keep thinking that this trumps the rest of the criteria mistakenly , you even used Dexter's advantage in symmetry & conditioning and balance to prove that weight supercedes ALL of the criteria , which is wrong , I'm not illiterate you just can't keep track of your own bullshit
let me teach you again moron , WEIGHT does not supercede balance , proportion , density , dryness , posing or presentation , you keep pushing that this extra weight , that's not even dense muscle will some how compensate for his deficiency in all the other parts of the criteria and offer up really lame examples as proof
lol, why are you repeating yourself? In that case, Ronnie has the advantage in muscular bulk, size, and mass. He also had better definition, separations, and striations. Oh look, Ronnie has more adjectives in his favor, lmao
Why am I repeating myself? well people such as yourself with limited abilities need to be constantly reminded of how things work and it takes a while for it to sink in your head ;) all adjectives for the same criteria , recall how you mistakenly claimed I was typing the same criteria to fluff up Dorian's advantages in balance & proportion? you claimed they were the same thing lol how then can you come to ANY conclusion on who would beat whom or who is better when you don't even have a basic understanding of what things are and aren't? Oh I know you know what you like and that's enough lol
Lou Ferrigno who was 310lbs in 1993 I wonder why his 53lb weight advantage over Dorian didn't work? that should have been more than enough to overcompensate for Dorian's clear advantage in balance & proportion , density & dryness , after all it worked for Ronnie against Dexter LMFAO
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riiiiight, when I've pointed out Ronnie's advantage in striations and separations numerous times, ND claims it's just "genetics"
However, when Dorian has the advantage in striations or separations in a certain body part (e.g. traps or midsection), all of a sudden it's due to conditioning
does the Dorian fanboyism know now bounds?
no, not really. There is more to the judging criteria than just muscular bulk or definition. If conditioning were most important, than Gaspari would have a few Mr. Olympia titles and Dexter would have beaten Ronnie Coleman. The better physique is the one that meets the judging criteria better than the rest. What Ronnie sacrifices in conditioning, he makes up for in size
at what point do you tilt the bar in favor of one bodybuilder or the other? When the difference in one criteria outweighs the other. Ronnie's size at 301 lbs > Dorian's conditioning at 257 lbs. This is not just a wild guess by some random person on the internet. This is the precedent set by the judges at the Mr. Olympia who decided Haney beat Gaspari and Ronnie beat Dexter Jackson
LOL the best part is watching ND melt and tell you how stupid you are because you have a different opinion than his.....but you can find just as many quotes from BBing magazines and industry people who say Ronnie was the best as you can Dorian, and the judges thought Ronnie was the best in the world 8 times.....but ND knows better than everyone ::)
I really like when he gets really bold and starts trying to convince people that Yates had better arms than Ronnie...He's like the Jehovah's Witness of Getbig
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LOL the best part is watching ND melt and tell you how stupid you are because you have a different opinion than his.....but you can find just as many quotes from BBing magazines and industry people who say Ronnie was the best as you can Dorian, and the judges thought Ronnie was the best in the world 8 times.....but ND knows better than everyone ::)
I really like when he gets really bold and starts trying to convince people that Yates had better arms than Ronnie...He's like the Jehovah's Witness of Getbig
He's not stupid because he has a different opinion than me , he's stupid because he's cherry picking the judging criteria for what he likes or what he thinks wins contests while ignoring the rest , that's not how it works
And to further correct you , you can actually find more quotes from BBing magazine and industry people who say Ronnie is the best , and for all intents & purposes he is , he tied Haney for most Olympia wins and has more pro wins than anyone else , so technically he is the greatest Mr Olympia winner and bodybuilder of all-time which doesn't have much to do with Dorian because how many of those titles did he earn by beating Dorian? ;)
I really like when he gets really bold and starts trying to convince people that Yates had better arms than Ronnie...He's like the Jehovah's Witness of Getbig
show me where I typed this? I dare you . I said Dorian had better triceps ( not bigger pay attention ) and better forearms but where did I try and convince anyone that Yates had better arms? show me I'll be waiting , in fact I've been pretty adamant that better parts don't make better poses for a long time now
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Yep. At their respective bests, Dorian -v- Ronnie could go either way. Not sure whey they're so hypersensitive about this...it's kinda strange.
lol this isnt even close to true
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Entertaining Dorian would face Ronnie 1998 and it would be close , Ronnie would lose just based on bitch tits , and lets entertain conditioning is equal , Dorian is still carrying more muscular bulk with equal conditioning not bitch tits , now factor in the fact Dorian has better balance & proportion and he's more complete , again the strengths just are too much for Ronnie
Are bitch tits a flaw? If they are so should be a torn bicep. You said Dorian's torn bicep didn't matter so much because of the overall physique, then the same could be said of Ronnie's bitch tits.
Plus if you are actually pointing Ronnie's bitch tits as a disadvantage for him, so should be Dorian's bloated stomach.
Ok, conditioning is equal and Dorian has more muscular bulk, but Ronnie has better muscularity due to his superior detail & separations. So its pretty hard to see where the scale would tilt.
How can you be so sure Dorian has better balance and proportion? Don't forget symmetry is also a part of this and Ronnie has better symmetry up to a point.
It would be a close contest, you can't be so sure.
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lol this isnt even close to true
You're right , I don't think Ronnie would come that close to Dorian ;D
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He's not stupid because he has a different opinion than me , he's stupid because he's cherry picking the judging criteria for what he likes or what he thinks wins contests while ignoring the rest , that's not how it works
And to further correct you , you can actually find more quotes from BBing magazine and industry people who say Ronnie is the best , and for all intents & purposes he is , he tied Haney for most Olympia wins and has more pro wins than anyone else , so technically he is the greatest Mr Olympia winner and bodybuilder of all-time which doesn't have much to do with Dorian because how many of those titles did he earn by beating Dorian? ;)
show me where I typed this? I dare you . I said Dorian had better triceps ( not bigger pay attention ) and better forearms but where did I try and convince anyone that Yates had better arms? show me I'll be waiting , in fact I've been pretty adamant that better parts don't make better poses for a long time now
how many times do we have to tell you, dorian and ronnie never stepped onstage together at each others best
and now you saying ronnie is the best, you're flip flopping like a fish out of water, what groink said was right
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Are bitch tits a flaw? If they are so should be a torn bicep. You said Dorian's torn bicep didn't matter so much because of the overall physique, then the same could be said of Ronnie's bitch tits.
Plus if you are actually pointing Ronnie's bitch tits as a disadvantage for him, so should be Dorian's bloated stomach.
Ok, conditioning is equal and Dorian has more muscular bulk, but Ronnie has better muscularity due to his superior detail & separations. So its pretty hard to see where the scale would tilt.
How can you be so sure Dorian has better balance and proportion? Don't forget symmetry is also a part of this and Ronnie has better symmetry up to a point.
It would be a close contest, you can't be so sure.
quote]Are bitch tits a flaw? If they are so should be a torn bicep. You said Dorian's torn bicep didn't matter so much because of the overall physique, then the same could be said of Ronnie's bitch tits.
Plus if you are actually pointing Ronnie's bitch tits as a disadvantage for him, so should be Dorian's bloated stomach.
[/quote]
are you really asking it bitch tits are a flaw? and did Dorian have a torn bicep in 1993? and the same did apply to Ronnie in 1998 overall it didn't hurt his physique however in a hypothetical contest and it were close I think this could be a deciding factor absolutely. Ronnie's gut was ever present in 98/99 so those who live in glass houses
Ok, conditioning is equal and Dorian has more muscular bulk, but Ronnie has better muscularity due to his superior detail & separations. So its pretty hard to see where the scale would tilt.
Ummmmm NO conditioning is not equal that was entertaining the point for the sake of argument. Ronnie doesn't have better muscularity either , superior detail ? where? ??? in certain parts? and separartions the same where? that's a all encompassing claim , Dorian's carries more muscular bulk than Ronnie while being harder & drier that swings it clearly in his favor
How can you be so sure Dorian has better balance and proportion? Don't forget symmetry is also a part of this and Ronnie has better symmetry up to a point.
well given the fact that Dorian ( who is an IFBB judge mind you ) said outright his balance & proportion were better than Ronnie's and conditioning as well is pretty much proof it is , if you can't ( or wont ) see it yourself
Ronnie does have an advantage in smaller joints , waist , hips ( although in these fantasy comparisons he never does ;D ) it's only part of symmetry , Ronnie's calves are in proportion with his oversized quads , his glutes aren't in proportion with his physique especially not when considering when the can be seen from the front :-X hams in profile are dominated by the oversized quads , forearms aren't in proportion with his insanely huge biceps/triceps , you look at his side triceps ( in profile ) you can barely see his pecs because his oversized delts obscure it ( now let me say this is more apparent at different weights with Ronnie ) you have to know what you're looking for and as I said more to symmetry than just a small waist & hips
It would be a close contest, you can't be so sure.
actually I can be sure , especially if we're using Ronnie 1998 who had an absolute hard time beating Flex 98 who wasn't on par with his 1993 version that Dorian dominated , I think Ronnie 2001 ASC would be the biggest threat to Dorian all others like 99/03 really wouldn't because of the big difference in conditioning
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how many times do we have to tell you, dorian and ronnie never stepped onstage together at each others best
and now you saying ronnie is the best, you're flip flopping like a fish out of water, what groink said was right
Oh boy ::) like most of Ronnie's fans you apparently have comprehension problems
no shit Ronnie and Dorian never stepped onstage at their bests
I'm saying statistically Ronnie is the best which has nothing to do with Dorian because not one single of his wins is over Dorian
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quote]Are bitch tits a flaw? If they are so should be a torn bicep. You said Dorian's torn bicep didn't matter so much because of the overall physique, then the same could be said of Ronnie's bitch tits.
Plus if you are actually pointing Ronnie's bitch tits as a disadvantage for him, so should be Dorian's bloated stomach.
are you really asking it bitch tits are a flaw? and did Dorian have a torn bicep in 1993? and the same did apply to Ronnie in 1998 overall it didn't hurt his physique however in a hypothetical contest and it were close I think this could be a deciding factor absolutely. Ronnie's gut was ever present in 98/99 so those who live in glass houses
Ummmmm NO conditioning is not equal that was entertaining the point for the sake of argument. Ronnie doesn't have better muscularity either , superior detail ? where? ??? in certain parts? and separartions the same where? that's a all encompassing claim , Dorian's carries more muscular bulk than Ronnie while being harder & drier that swings it clearly in his favor
well given the fact that Dorian ( who is an IFBB judge mind you ) said outright his balance & proportion were better than Ronnie's and conditioning as well is pretty much proof it is , if you can't ( or wont ) see it yourself
Ronnie does have an advantage in smaller joints , waist , hips ( although in these fantasy comparisons he never does ;D ) it's only part of symmetry , Ronnie's calves are in proportion with his oversized quads , his glutes aren't in proportion with his physique especially not when considering when the can be seen from the front :-X hams in profile are dominated by the oversized quads , forearms aren't in proportion with his insanely huge biceps/triceps , you look at his side triceps ( in profile ) you can barely see his pecs because his oversized delts obscure it ( now let me say this is more apparent at different weights with Ronnie ) you have to know what you're looking for and as I said more to symmetry than just a small waist & hips
actually I can be sure , especially if we're using Ronnie 1998 who had an absolute hard time beating Flex 98 who wasn't on par with his 1993 version that Dorian dominated , I think Ronnie 2001 ASC would be the biggest threat to Dorian all others like 99/03 really wouldn't because of the big difference in conditioning
are you really asking it bitch tits are a flaw? and did Dorian have a torn bicep in 1993? and the same did apply to Ronnie in 1998 overall it didn't hurt his physique however in a hypothetical contest and it were close I think this could be a deciding factor absolutely. Ronnie's gut was ever present in 98/99 so those who live in glass houses
No, he didn't have a torn bicep in 93. 93 vs 98 still would be a very close contest, I just don't think bitch tits could be a problem, his calves would though.
Ummmmm NO conditioning is not equal that was entertaining the point for the sake of argument. Ronnie doesn't have better muscularity either , superior detail ? where? ??? in certain parts? and separartions the same where? that's a all encompassing claim , Dorian's carries more muscular bulk than Ronnie while being harder & drier that swings it clearly in his favor
So for the sake of argument let's say they had equal conditioning (I think they did), Ronnie has better muscularity. You said muscularity is the ability to show great detail and muscle separation and that it goes hand in hand with conditioning, since great conditioning is a must to show the muscle detail & separation.
Since we are saying they had equal conditioning or even if Dorian had slightly better, Ronnie has better muscularity due to his superior muscle separations & detail. You ask where? All most every single bodypart when looked from the front.
Dorian does carry more muscular bulk, but muscularity is equally important right? I still don't see a 93-95 Dorian harder & drier than a 98 - 01 Ronnie.
well given the fact that Dorian ( who is an IFBB judge mind you ) said outright his balance & proportion were better than Ronnie's and conditioning as well is pretty much proof it is , if you can't ( or wont ) see it yourself
Ronnie does have an advantage in smaller joints , waist , hips ( although in these fantasy comparisons he never does ;D ) it's only part of symmetry , Ronnie's calves are in proportion with his oversized quads , his glutes aren't in proportion with his physique especially not when considering when the can be seen from the front :-X hams in profile are dominated by the oversized quads , forearms aren't in proportion with his insanely huge biceps/triceps , you look at his side triceps ( in profile ) you can barely see his pecs because his oversized delts obscure it ( now let me say this is more apparent at different weights with Ronnie ) you have to know what you're looking for and as I said more to symmetry than just a small waist & hips
Dorian in 93 has better balance & proportion than Ronnie, I admit it. But Ronnie still has some advantage in symmetry.
actually I can be sure , especially if we're using Ronnie 1998 who had an absolute hard time beating Flex 98 who wasn't on par with his 1993 version that Dorian dominated , I think Ronnie 2001 ASC would be the biggest threat to Dorian all others like 99/03 really wouldn't because of the big difference in conditioning
Yeah, I think Ronnie 98 or 01 are his best showings too.
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No, he didn't have a torn bicep in 93. 93 vs 98 still would be a very close contest, I just don't think bitch tits could be a problem, his calves would though.
So for the sake of argument let's say they had equal conditioning (I think they did), Ronnie has better muscularity. You said muscularity is the ability to show great detail and muscle separation and that it goes hand in hand with conditioning, since great conditioning is a must to show the muscle detail & separation.
Since we are saying they had equal conditioning or even if Dorian had slightly better, Ronnie has better muscularity due to his superior muscle separations & detail. You ask where? All most every single bodypart when looked from the front.
Dorian does carry more muscular bulk, but muscularity is equally important right? I still don't see a 93-95 Dorian harder & drier than a 98 - 01 Ronnie.
Dorian in 93 has better balance & proportion than Ronnie, I admit it. But Ronnie still has some advantage in symmetry.
Yeah, I think Ronnie 98 or 01 are his best showings too.
No, he didn't have a torn bicep in 93. 93 vs 98 still would be a very close contest, I just don't think bitch tits could be a problem, his calves would though.
the bitch tits and the calves , no way is he beating Dorian if it were ' close ' these factors were swing it Yates way
So for the sake of argument let's say they had equal conditioning (I think they did), Ronnie has better muscularity. You said muscularity is the ability to show great detail and muscle separation and that it goes hand in hand with conditioning, since great conditioning is a must to show the muscle detail & separation.
Since we are saying they had equal conditioning or even if Dorian had slightly better, Ronnie has better muscularity due to his superior muscle separations & detail. You ask where? All most every single bodypart when looked from the front.
Dorian does carry more muscular bulk, but muscularity is equally important right? I still don't see a 93-95 Dorian harder & drier than a 98 - 01 Ronnie.
I don't think Ronnie showed greater muscularity than Dorian , perhaps in certain areas sure overall? NO in almost every bodypart? Oh Boy ::)
lets say conditioning is equal , Dorian still has an advantage in muscular bulk while being just as hard and as dry while being better balanced , and more complete. no one part of the criteria supercedes the other however if all things being ' equal ' the better conditioned athlete usually wins
Dorian in 93 has better balance & proportion than Ronnie, I admit it. But Ronnie still has some advantage in symmetry.
As I've stated many times , but when we factor in everything I think it favors Yates if not by a lot than enough to win
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the bitch tits and the calves , no way is he beating Dorian if it were ' close ' these factors were swing it Yates way
So for the sake of argument let's say they had equal conditioning (I think they did), Ronnie has better muscularity. You said muscularity is the ability to show great detail and muscle separation and that it goes hand in hand with conditioning, since great conditioning is a must to show the muscle detail & separation.
Since we are saying they had equal conditioning or even if Dorian had slightly better, Ronnie has better muscularity due to his superior muscle separations & detail. You ask where? All most every single bodypart when looked from the front.
Dorian does carry more muscular bulk, but muscularity is equally important right? I still don't see a 93-95 Dorian harder & drier than a 98 - 01 Ronnie.
I don't think Ronnie showed greater muscularity than Dorian , perhaps in certain areas sure overall? NO in almost every bodypart? Oh Boy ::)
lets say conditioning is equal , Dorian still has an advantage in muscular bulk while being just as hard and as dry while being better balanced , and more complete. no one part of the criteria supercedes the other however if all things being ' equal ' the better conditioned athlete usually wins
As I've stated many times , but when we factor in everything I think it favors Yates if not by a lot than enough to win
the bitch tits and the calves , no way is he beating Dorian if it were ' close ' these factors were swing it Yates way
Yes, this could be a possibility.
I don't think Ronnie showed greater muscularity than Dorian , perhaps in certain areas sure overall? NO in almost every bodypart? Oh Boy ::)
lets say conditioning is equal , Dorian still has an advantage in muscular bulk while being just as hard and as dry while being better balanced , and more complete. no one part of the criteria supercedes the other however if all things being ' equal ' the better conditioned athlete usually wins
I think Ronnie showed greater muscularity than Dorian, I took it too far by saying ever bodypart though. Absolutely in certain areas and I think that overall he did. We can agree to disagree here.
As I've stated many times , but when we factor in everything I think it favors Yates if not by a lot than enough to win
I agree, the criteria could favor Dorian to win, but only slightly.
Again, we'll never know.
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Oh boy ::) like most of Ronnie's fans you apparently have comprehension problems
no shit Ronnie and Dorian never stepped onstage at their bests
I'm saying statistically Ronnie is the best which has nothing to do with Dorian because not one single of his wins is over Dorian
You've been arguing this whole time about dorian being better than ronnie, now you're trying to say that they had nothing to do with each other because they didn't step onstage at their bests.
wtf
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Yes, this could be a possibility.
I think Ronnie showed greater muscularity than Dorian, I took it too far by saying ever bodypart though. Absolutely in certain areas and I think that overall he did. We can agree to disagree here.
I agree, the criteria could favor Dorian to win, but only slightly.
Again, we'll never know.
ND knows for fact and is qualified to judge and knows the criteria
idk he'll probably change his mind now and say it's all opinnion
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You've been arguing this whole time about dorian being better than ronnie, now you're trying to say that they had nothing to do with each other because they didn't step onstage at their bests.
wtf
We know this , Ronnie faced Dorian 8 times and LOST every single time , was Ronnie at his best? NO now the debate is who at their best would beat who , could Ronnie's improvements be enough to beat Dorian? in my opinion probably NOT
ND knows for fact and is qualified to judge and knows the criteria
idk he'll probably change his mind now and say it's all opinnion
I know for a fact just like you know for a fact that contests are fixed ;)
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He's not stupid because he has a different opinion than me , he's stupid because he's cherry picking the judging criteria for what he likes or what he thinks wins contests while ignoring the rest , that's not how it works
And to further correct you , you can actually find more quotes from BBing magazine and industry people who say Ronnie is the best , and for all intents & purposes he is , he tied Haney for most Olympia wins and has more pro wins than anyone else , so technically he is the greatest Mr Olympia winner and bodybuilder of all-time which doesn't have much to do with Dorian because how many of those titles did he earn by beating Dorian? ;)
show me where I typed this? I dare you . I said Dorian had better triceps ( not bigger pay attention ) and better forearms but where did I try and convince anyone that Yates had better arms? show me I'll be waiting , in fact I've been pretty adamant that better parts don't make better poses for a long time now
you do the same thing
Go ahead and write another thousand word manifesto about how you know better and your opinion is backed up by facts...blah, blah blah.....you do the same exact shit ;)
If you were actually man enough to cop to that, i would be shocked...but apparently winning this argument is life and death for you and it seems beyond your scope to even concede the slightest point someone makes
as far as the arm remark, I'm not going digging around for it, but you've said it on a couple of occasions...... I don't just make shit up.
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We know this , Ronnie faced Dorian 8 times and LOST every single time , was Ronnie at his best? NO now the debate is who at their best would beat who , could Ronnie's improvements be enough to beat Dorian? in my opinion probably NOT
I know for a fact just like you know for a fact that contests are fixed ;)
I believe groink has covered the shitty judging department
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you do the same thing
Go ahead and write another thousand word manifesto about how you know better and your opinion is backed up by facts...blah, blah blah.....you do the same exact shit ;)
If you were actually man enough to cop to that, i would be shocked...but apparently winning this argument is life and death for you and it seems beyond your scope to even concede the slightest point someone makes
as far as the arm remark, I'm not going digging around for it, but you've said it on a couple of occasions...... I don't just make shit up.
NO I don't cherry pick anything in fact I've A) posted the criteria which these guys never knew and B) said Dorian meets ALL of it more than Ronnie , so you're flat out wrong again , I don't cherry pick I don't need to
We've already established there are NO winners or losers when it comes to an opinion on whose best , so how is this a life or death situation for me? how ? keep making empty statements I've walked away from this argument , I've offered a truce out of respect for other members , this alone proves this ' argument ' doesn't mean as much to me as you want it to
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I believe groink has covered the shitty judging department
We're not talking about him YOU made the claim
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How trained harder Ronnie or Dorian? let the fun begin!
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NO I don't cherry pick anything in fact I've A) posted the criteria which these guys never knew and B) said Dorian meets ALL of it more than Ronnie , so you're flat out wrong again , I don't cherry pick I don't need to
We've already established there are NO winners or losers when it comes to an opinion on whose best , so how is this a life or death situation for me? how ? keep making empty statements I've walked away from this argument , I've offered a truce out of respect for other members , this alone proves this ' argument ' doesn't mean as much to me as you want it to
Yes you do....someone will post a pic of Yates looking bad...you immediately post one of him looking great and throw one of Ronnie looking shitty right next to it.
You have been doing this every day for 6 years now.
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Yes you do....someone will post a pic of Yates looking bad...you immediately post one of him looking great and throw one of Ronnie looking shitty right next to it.
You have been doing this every day for 6 years now.
Ronnie has Dorian beat in both comparisons though.. If you put two of their best pics beside each other Ronnie takes it. If you put their two worst photos beside each other, Ronnie still takes it for looking worse. Point is at his best he was unbeatable by anyone from any decade.
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Yes you do....someone will post a pic of Yates looking bad...you immediately post one of him looking great and throw one of Ronnie looking shitty right next to it.
You have been doing this every day for 6 years now.
Oh boy ::) we're talking about cherry picking the judging criteria , which I don't because I don't have to because I know how contests are judged , the one who meets ALL of the criteria better than his contemporaries is usually declared the winner
and I'm guilty of doing that usually it's called a " Hulkster " comparison because he's notorious for it and the ironic part is these guys have been doing it for years yet you're bitching only at me for it , hypocrite much?
And again I'm glad you hang on my every word and follow me around and I'm glad I pissed you off compelled you enough to join the fray , because you're just another guy that needs to be corrected ;)
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Ronnie has Dorian beat in both comparisons though.. If you put two of their best pics beside each other Ronnie takes it. If you put their two worst photos beside each other, Ronnie still takes it for looking worse. Point is at his best he was unbeatable by anyone from any decade.
I will put this shot of Dorian up against anything you can muster of Coleman and he beats him hands down ;D
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And this one
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Ronnie has Dorian beat in both comparisons though.. If you put two of their best pics beside each other Ronnie takes it. If you put their two worst photos beside each other, Ronnie still takes it for looking worse. Point is at his best he was unbeatable by anyone from any decade.
most brilliant post in this thread! Whether it's a contest to see who looks the best or worst, Ronnie is unbeatable ;D
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Oh boy ::) we're talking about cherry picking the judging criteria , which I don't because I don't have to because I know how contests are judged , the one who meets ALL of the criteria better than his contemporaries is usually declared the winner
and I'm guilty of doing that usually it's called a " Hulkster " comparison because he's notorious for it and the ironic part is these guys have been doing it for years yet you're bitching only at me for it , hypocrite much?
And again I'm glad you hang on my every word and follow me around and I'm glad I pissed you off compelled you enough to join the fray , because you're just another guy that needs to be corrected ;)
I think Hulkster is just as much of a tool when he does it, it's pure fanboy nonsense from both of you.
Apparently you "hang on my every word" too, because I haven't made a post recently in this thread that you have not responded to directly ;)
And please tell us all again....how exactly do you correct someone's opinion ?? Some people prefer Coleman, some Yates....you seem to be the only one who arrogantly (and childishly) proclaims time and time again that your opinion is somehow more valid.
Hulkster is 1000% pro-Ronnie,and he can be a HUGE fanboy...... but he doesn't think he's "the authority" anywhere near the extent that you do.
You are comical
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And this one
That pic always puts Hulkster on the ropes and he thinks it is photoshopped. What a wanker! LOL
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I think Hulkster is just as much of a tool when he does it, it's pure fanboy nonsense from both of you.
Apparently you "hang on my every word" too, because I haven't made a post recently in this thread that you have not responded to directly ;)
And please tell us all again....how exactly do you correct someone's opinion ?? Some people prefer Coleman, some Yates....you seem to be the only one who arrogantly (and childishly) proclaims time and time again that your opinion is somehow more valid.
Hulkster is 1000% pro-Ronnie,and he can be a HUGE fanboy...... but he doesn't think he's "the authority" anywhere near the extent that you do.
You are comical
I hang on your word? you mentioned my name in this thread sport , I merely responded. ;) how do you correct someone's opinion? easy by showing them they contradict reality and facts. just because someone has an opinion doesn't mean they're right especially if it's not subjective , It's like claiming Ronnie's calves are more detailed that Dorians , this is easy to prove someone's opinion is wrong by posting two comparison photos showing who has more detail in the calves , this isn't open for discussion , this isn't subjective and when someone makes a claim like this they're wrong and easily proven wrong
And how do contests get judged? how does one determine who is the better bodybuilder? lets entertain Ronnie and Dorian met at their respective bests a winner would be determined , there is a way , out of the two of us I know my opinion is more informative , unbiased and educated , Hulkster and the rest of the lot are attempting to determine who is better without EVER even knowing how contests are judged and you're asking me how I can come to the conclusion how my point of view is more valid?
They never knew the IFBB judging criteria until I posted it, yet that never prevented them from declaring Ronnie would beat Dorian , they never once knew that all rounds are physique rounds and they were scratching their heads wondering how and why Dorian never lost a ' symmetry round or posing round ' despite not being the most ' symmetrical ' or the best ' poser ' yet they knew for sure Ronnie would beat Yates , these guys didn't even know balance & proportion were two separate things , yet that never stopped them from committing know-it-all opinions on how Ronnie would win , so to answer you question my opinion is more valid because I took the time to learn how contests are judged , what the judges look for and how to apply the criteria , they never did
And Hulkster doesn't come across as much as an authority as me? have you ever read any of his posts or just hung on my words? ;) he's said he's just as qualified to judge contest sitting at home on his p.c. than any professional IFBB judge is sitting feet away live & in person , I mean I really could continue for a long time with examples of how he thinks he's right and every professional who was there is flat-out wrong , he's not an authority because he's fucking clueless , he'd have to have an inkling of how things work in order to come across as an authority , he's clueless and like most Coleman fans ignorant and base everything on what they prefer.
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Checkout this high quality vid of the 94 Olympia posedown:
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I don't care what the haters think. Yates was unbeatable once again in 94 and the videos prove it.
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That pic always puts Hulkster on the ropes and he thinks it is photoshopped. What a wanker! LOL
What else can he say? he's crushed he outright cried it was morphed and when the photographer Kevin Horton said it was an untouched scan from the original negative he basically called him a liar , the funny part is Horton said if Hulkster posted he would think it was fake because that's what Hulkster does ;D
Dorian is 283lbs in that pic ( even though Groink doesn't by it ) noticeably larger than all other showings and according to Horton ' shredded ' people always bring up Ronnie 2003 , big deal. Dorian's 4lbs lighter with better balance & proportion and conditioning , it's no wonder why these guys cry morphed and these pics don't matter because he never looked like that on-stage ::)
Kevin Horton said this was the absolute best he's ever seen Dorian even better than the pre-contest 1993 , I would love to see more pics from this shoot so it would silence a lot of fan-boys look how much damage this pic caused , they still haven't recovered.
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I hang on your word? you mentioned my name in this thread sport , I merely responded. ;) how do you correct someone's opinion? easy by showing them they contradict reality and facts. just because someone has an opinion doesn't mean they're right especially if it's not subjective , It's like claiming Ronnie's calves are more detailed that Dorians , this is easy to prove someone's opinion is wrong by posting two comparison photos showing who has more detail in the calves , this isn't open for discussion , this isn't subjective and when someone makes a claim like this they're wrong and easily proven wrong
And how do contests get judged? how does one determine who is the better bodybuilder? lets entertain Ronnie and Dorian met at their respective bests a winner would be determined , there is a way , out of the two of us I know my opinion is more informative , unbiased and educated , Hulkster and the rest of the lot are attempting to determine who is better without EVER even knowing how contests are judged and you're asking me how I can come to the conclusion how my point of view is more valid?
They never knew the IFBB judging criteria until I posted , yet that never prevented them from declaring Ronnie would beat Dorian , they never once knew that all rounds are physique rounds and they were scratching their heads wondering how and why Dorian never lost a ' symmetry round or posing round ' despite not being the most ' symmetrical ' or the best ' poser ' yet they knew for sure Ronnie would beat Yates , these guys didn't even know balance & proportion were two separate things , yet that never stopped them from committing know-it-all opinions on how Ronnie would win , so to answer you question my opinion is more valid because I took the time to learn how contests are judged , what the judges look for and how to apply the criteria , they never did
And Hulkster doesn't come across as much as an authority as me? have you ever read any of his posts or just hung on my words? ;) he's said he's just as qualified to judge contest sitting at home on his p.c. than any professional IFBB judge is sitting feet away , I mean I really could continue for a long time , he's not an authority because he's fucking clueless , he'd have to have an inkling of how things work in order to come across as an authority , he's clueless and like most Coleman fans ignorant and base everything on what they prefer.
so when you answer my posts...it's "merely responding"...but i "hang on your every word" when i respond to you??
That's pretty much you in a nutshell, actually.
thanks for posting yet another 500 word rant....on cue, stating how your opinion matters more ;)
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What else can he say? he's crushed he outright cried it was morphed and when the photographer Kevin Horton said it was an untouched scan from the original negative he basically called him a liar , the funny part is Horton said if Hulkster posted he would think it was fake because that's what Hulkster does ;D
Dorian is 283lbs in that pic ( even though Groink doesn't by it ) noticeably larger than all other showings and according to Horton ' shredded ' people always bring up Ronnie 2003 , big deal. Dorian's 4lbs lighter with better balance & proportion and conditioning , it's no wonder why these guys cry morphed and these pics don't matter because he never looked like that on-stage ::)
Kevin Horton said this was the absolute best he's ever seen Dorian even better than the pre-contest 1993 , I would love to see more pics from this shoot so it would silence a lot of fan-boys look how much damage this pic caused , they still haven't recovered.
Whether he weighs 247 lb or 287 lb, Ronnie carries at least 30 of those pounds in his gigantic ass ;D
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so when you answer my posts...it's "merely responding"...but i "hang on your every word" when i respond to you??
That's pretty much you in a nutshell, actually.
thanks for posting yet another 500 word rant....on cue, stating how your opinion matters more ;)
No and why? because ....... you seem to know an awful lot about many of my old posts that's why :D
You asked on my opinion is more valid , I gave you a explanation and now you're bitching , great logic. you know you can't counter the argument so chalk it up as a ' rant ' or better yet a ' meltdown ' either you're here to debate or troll pick one , doesn't matter to me because my informed , educated opinion on the subject will be here waiting to correct you.
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Whether he weighs 247 lb or 287 lb, Ronnie carries at least 30 of those pounds in his gigantic ass ;D
:-X :-X
800lb squats they don't only build huge quads :-X
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No and why? because ....... you seem to know an awful lot about many of my old posts that's why :D
You asked on my opinion is more valid , I gave you a explanation and now you're bitching , great logic. you know you can't counter the argument so chalk it up as a ' rant ' or better yet a ' meltdown ' either you're here to debate or troll pick one , doesn't matter to me because my informed , educated opinion on the subject will be here waiting to correct you.
It's called "remembering things you read" , not exactly an exotic concept ::)
You are correct...i don't "counter" your argument because it's pointless...you have your opinion and nothing I , or anyone else says is going to sway it.
That's my whole point.....you think you are somehow "winning" this neverending debate...it's funny to me.
If i was frustrated i would constantly be posting volatile diatribes calling everyone who doesn't agree with me stupid (like you do ;))
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so when you answer my posts...it's "merely responding"...but i "hang on your every word" when i respond to you??
why do you think people sometimes call him "HypocriticDeity?"
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It's called "remembering things you read" , not exactly an exotic concept ::)
You are correct...i don't "counter" your argument because it's pointless...you have your opinion and nothing I , or anyone else says is going to sway it.
That's my whole point.....you think you are somehow "winning" this neverending debate...it's funny to me.
If i was frustrated i would constantly be posting volatile diatribes calling everyone who doesn't agree with me stupid (like you do ;))
NO you think that I think I'm winning , you keep insisting that I'm out to win , I'm not out to win anything like I said to you I offered a truce if I were out to win I would have never done that , if I were looking to win I wouldn't have walked from the truce thread , this debate doesn't mean as much to me as you'd like to think it does , it's not the only topic I post in like Hulkster
If I were frustrated I wish other members be run over by a bus and be paralyzed for life ;)
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why do you think people sometimes call him "HypocriticDeity?"
Hello pot
Says the guy who come into one of these ' debates ' bitches and moans about ' you guys are still at it ' then proceeds to join right in ;) says the guy who claims Peter McGough is right when he says Ronnie 2001 is unbeatable but says he's flat out wrong when he says Ronnie doesn't compare in terms of conditioning , I can continue to point out many examples of your hypocrisy if you'd like? ;)
First, I didn't disagree with Peter McGough's claim that Ronnie was never harder or drier than Dorian.
again your quote
I'm sorry but Peter McGough is an idiot if he thinks 01 ASC Ronnie never surpassed Dorian's conditioning.
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puny arms, weird legs, all back...ugly, disgusting physique
totally agree.... Ugly physique ...
I've read this thread and what I will say is
Nd you are totally obsessed you have posted at least 3 more times than anybody else on this thread
totally obsessed . Bodybuilding is based on op ion not fact
relax man get ahold of yourself
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If you were actually man enough to cop to that, i would be shocked...but apparently winning this argument is life and death for you and it seems beyond your scope to even concede the slightest point someone makes
this is very true ... Nd Stop go back and read this thread you have had maybe 5 trimes more posts on this thread than anyone else most of them essay long . I'm guessing you must have these saved as templates on your computer....
Please do not misconstrue I actually respect you as a person you seem quite intelligent and level headed UNTIL anyone mentions Dorian v ronnie
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most brilliant post in this thread! Whether it's a contest to see who looks the best or worst, Ronnie is unbeatable ;D
Neo I dont know why you keep up this charade, you and I both know you are a closet Dorian lover, I dont understand why you keep on riling this argument up. ;D
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Checkout this high quality vid of the 94 Olympia posedown:
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I don't care what the haters think. Yates was unbeatable once again in 94 and the videos prove it.
Yes, Dorian was the clear winner in 94 and unbeatable as far as the judging criteria goes, but his physique was still awful and unaesthetic anyway.
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Yes, Dorian was the clear winner in 94 and unbeatable as far as the judging criteria goes, but his physique was still awful and unaesthetic anyway.
I dont think any of us will argue that point.
Good thing you dont have to be pretty or aesthetic to win the Mr. O, or Dorian woulda been fucked.
Heres another pic or 2 that Hulkster cried morphed too. ;D
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NO you think that I think I'm winning , you keep insisting that I'm out to win , I'm not out to win anything like I said to you I offered a truce if I were out to win I would have never done that , if I were looking to win I wouldn't have walked from the truce thread , this debate doesn't mean as much to me as you'd like to think it does , it's not the only topic I post in like Hulkster
If I were frustrated I wish other members be run over by a bus and be paralyzed for life ;)
You keep posting that like you "got me" or something ::) ...It was an off the cuff remark that I never even thought twice about.
I said it ONCE....not 16 times a day for six years straight ;)
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You keep posting that like you "got me" or something ::) ...It was an off the cuff remark that I never even thought twice about.
I said it ONCE....not 16 times a day for six years straight ;)
No you're obviously mistaken on what a meltdown is and what frustrated is and I just pointed that out of a prime example of both
and again I'm glad you follow my every word ;D
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Dorian had some crazy thickness from all Angles that Ronnie lacked.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=357606;image)
That's called being in black and white.
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That's called being in black and white.
You think that helps with thickness? ???
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That's called being in black and white.
O rly?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=343546.0;attach=378812;image)
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O rly?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=343546.0;attach=378812;image)
for some odd reason his arms don't look big when viewed dead-on but when he turns to the side it's a different story
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for some odd reason his arms don't look big when viewed dead-on but when he turns to the side it's a different story
Im not normally one to defend his biceps, but his FDB looked pretty fucking good in 93. I dont think there is anything wrong with his arms in 93. I think people just get so down on him cause of the tear, that they dont care about pre-tear, they just think "oh his arms sucked" and thats how they percieve him.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=184545;image)
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Another. Pretty fucking A'ok if you ask me.
And really, this is Dorians weakest pose after the MM. Dude isnt one of those bb that everyone is like "holy fucking shit", hes just got everything he needs to win. He didnt need to have the best arms, the best legs, the best chest, etc. He just had a great combo of size, balance, completeness and conditioning. Thats all he needed. He just won, period.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=155333.0;attach=221426;image)
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It speaks to Ronnie's greatness that he, by far, is regarded as the best bodybuilder ever, even though he competed and never beat Dorian Yates during his 6xOlympia run. What Ronnie achieved after Dorian's reign is why Ronnie is regarded as the best ever, and Dorian is not. Sorry Dorian diehards, but there are several physiques regarded as better than Dorians including Arnold, Olivia, Haney and Coleman. However, there could only be 1 physique argued to be better than Ronnies, and thats Arnold. Dorian will never be considered greater than Coleman by the vast majority of bodybuilding fans, even though he never lost to him, which only speaks to how great Ronnie was from 99 on. The only individuals who think Dorian is better than Ronnie are Dorian's extreme fans, which all that support Dorian in this debate are, and which is why I really dont consider your opinions whatsoever.
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It speaks to Ronnie's greatness that he, by far, is regarded as the best bodybuilder ever, even though he competed and never beat Dorian Yates during his 6xOlympia run. What Ronnie achieved after Dorian's reign is why Ronnie is regarded as the best ever, and Dorian is not. Sorry Dorian diehards, but there are several physiques regarded as better than Dorians including Arnold, Olivia, Haney and Coleman. However, there could only be 1 physique argued to be better than Ronnies, and thats Arnold. Dorian will never be considered greater than Coleman by the vast majority of bodybuilding fans, even though he never lost to him, which only speaks to how great Ronnie was from 99 on. The only individuals who think Dorian is better than Ronnie are Dorian's extreme fans, which all that support Dorian in this debate are, and which is why I really dont consider your opinions whatsoever.
Haha youve been reading to much FLEX magazine.
Everyone thinks Ronnie is the greatest because he won 8 O's and he was the largest Mr O ever.
Thats why. Not to mention he won over pretty shitty competition. lol.
And hes lost his title, defied all the rules in the IFBB rulebook (No posing trunks up ass, stage props), came in looking like shit almost MORE than Dorian, and was gifted the wins just like Dorian.
Look, we dont care that he wont be considered the greatest by the BB community.
In case you didnt notice, most people are idiots and they believe whatever they are spoon fed. They dont know shit. People are simply dumbasses, and that group mentality is the stupidest argument you could ever come up with.
Not to mention, usually when a bunch of people think something, they are WRONG. lol.
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There you go speaking for Ronnie , you put way , way to much stock into 2003 even Ronnie himself says it ain't his best , don't presume to speak for Ronnie
You think Ronnie believes Haney would beat him too ::) I needn't presume to speak for Ronnie to postulate that comment is likely based primarily on respecting past champions. You're right I cannot be sure, he may well genuinely believe Arnold would beat him too. In which case I guess that would make you think it too?
It was after 2003 super-sized Ronnie happened that Dorian conceded in MD that "Ronnie would probably win".
You don't think Ronnie improved between 97 and 98 despite overtaking Levrone, Ray, Wheeler, Nasser et al. This incredibly odd assertion hinders your argument somewhat.
Also the Dorian argument is based almost entirely on b/w pics, pre-contest pics etc. Contests are won on a stage.
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You think Ronnie believes Haney would beat him too ::) I needn't presume to speak for Ronnie to postulate that comment is likely based primarily on respecting past champions. You're right I cannot be sure, he may well genuinely believe Arnold would beat him too. In which case I guess that would make you think it too?
It was after 2003 super-sized Ronnie happened that Dorian conceded in MD that "Ronnie would probably win".
You don't think Ronnie improved between 97 and 98 despite overtaking Levrone, Ray, Wheeler, Nasser et al. This incredibly odd assertion hinders your argument somewhat.
Also the Dorian argument is based almost entirely on b/w pics, pre-contest pics etc. Contests are won on a stage.
No, he realizes Ronnie improved. He weight nearly the same with much better conditioning. This follows that Ronnie gained mass.
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It speaks to Ronnie's greatness that he, by far, is regarded as the best bodybuilder ever, even though he competed and never beat Dorian Yates during his 6xOlympia run. What Ronnie achieved after Dorian's reign is why Ronnie is regarded as the best ever, and Dorian is not. Sorry Dorian diehards, but there are several physiques regarded as better than Dorians including Arnold, Olivia, Haney and Coleman. However, there could only be 1 physique argued to be better than Ronnies, and thats Arnold. Dorian will never be considered greater than Coleman by the vast majority of bodybuilding fans, even though he never lost to him, which only speaks to how great Ronnie was from 99 on. The only individuals who think Dorian is better than Ronnie are Dorian's extreme fans, which all that support Dorian in this debate are, and which is why I really dont consider your opinions whatsoever.
Not everyone feels Ronnie is the best ever
Vic Richards on Romano & Palumbo radio show 2010.
" To say Ronnie Coleman is the best bodybuilder is an insult , he doesn't even come in the top 12 "
Q ] When people talk of the greatest Olympian's Ronnie's name is usually high on the list. In fact, he is widely regarded as the best bodybuilder of all time.
[ A ] Samir Bannout : I hate to say this but they are blind. People that don't approve of what we are talking about right now are blind. You have to understand. Look, Ronnie Coleman is probably the most muscular bodybuilder ever. If he could have drawn a better picture of himself on the stage he would have had more appeal, but he did not. He makes himself look worse. If you give Ronnie's body to Frank Zane we would probably be more in awe of his body than we are right now.
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You think Ronnie believes Haney would beat him too ::) I needn't presume to speak for Ronnie to postulate that comment is likely based primarily on respecting past champions. You're right I cannot be sure, he may well genuinely believe Arnold would beat him too. In which case I guess that would make you think it too?
It was after 2003 super-sized Ronnie happened that Dorian conceded in MD that "Ronnie would probably win".
You don't think Ronnie improved between 97 and 98 despite overtaking Levrone, Ray, Wheeler, Nasser et al. This incredibly odd assertion hinders your argument somewhat.
Also the Dorian argument is based almost entirely on b/w pics, pre-contest pics etc. Contests are won on a stage.
You think Ronnie believes Haney would beat him too ::) I needn't presume to speak for Ronnie to postulate that comment is likely based primarily on respecting past champions. You're right I cannot be sure, he may well genuinely believe Arnold would beat him too. In which case I guess that would make you think it too?
he said he could't beat them in their eras , Dorian was in Ronnie's era and the main difference being , Arnold and Haney never beat Ronnie , Dorian did for years
It was after 2003 super-sized Ronnie happened that Dorian conceded in MD that "Ronnie would probably win".
you purposely omitted the part where he said ' I guess I DON'T KNOW ' and it's a fact when Dorian says it yet not when Ronnie says it , I wont make excuses and claim Dorian's just being humble I'll leave that to you guys
You don't think Ronnie improved between 97 and 98 despite overtaking Levrone, Ray, Wheeler, Nasser et al. This incredibly odd assertion hinders your argument somewhat.
Where did I say he didn't improve? he did mainly in the conditioning department , and did you forget he was beating these exact same guys before he won the Olympia?
Also the Dorian argument is based almost entirely on b/w pics, pre-contest pics etc. Contests are won on a stage.
the argument is based on who at their best , obviously a vast majority of people feel this was the best Dorian's looked , the hypothetical part is if he stepped on-stage in that condition and this may not even be the best he's looked , according to Kevin Horton it's precontest 1995 when he was 283lbs shredded in the front latspread posted on bodybuilding.com you know the one Hulkster cried morphed
Dorian admitted he was dropping to much weight in an effort to get better conditioned and he realized he wasn't losing any more fat & water he was losing pure muscle which is why 1993 precontest is considered his best because for all intents & purposes he's contest ready in those pics
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No you're obviously mistaken on what a meltdown is and what frustrated is and I just pointed that out of a prime example of both
and again I'm glad you follow my every word ;D
right...I hang on your every word, I'm getting frustrated. What's next...I'm smashing my keyboard?? ::)
I guess you took "internet cliches 101" right after you took "internet judging 101" :)
what are you...16 years old ??
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right...I hang on your every word, I'm getting frustrated. What's next...I'm smashing my keyboard?? ::)
I guess you took "internet cliches 101" right after you took "internet judging 101" :)
what are you...16 years old ??
wow says the guy who claims this shit is ' life or death ' for me or I'm ' melting down ' and wishes other members be hit by a bus and paralyzed for life , what are you 16? hypocrite much?
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he said he could't beat them in their eras , Dorian was in Ronnie's era and the main difference being , Arnold and Haney never beat Ronnie , Dorian did for years
you purposely omitted the part where he said ' I guess I DON'T KNOW ' and it's a fact when Dorian says it yet not when Ronnie says it , I wont make excuses and claim Dorian's just being humble I'll leave that to you guys
Where did I say he didn't improve? he did mainly in the conditioning department , and did you forget he was beating these exact same guys before he won the Olympia?
the argument is based on who at their best , obviously a vast majority of people feel this was the best Dorian's looked , the hypothetical part is if he stepped on-stage in that condition and this may not even be the best he's looked , according to Kevin Horton it's precontest 1995 when he was 283lbs shredded in the front latspread posted on bodybuilding.com you know the one Hulkster cried morphed
Dorian admitted he was dropping to much weight in an effort to get better conditioned and he realized he wasn't losing any more fat & water he was losing pure muscle which is why 1993 precontest is considered his best because for all intents & purposes he's contest ready in those pics
I dunno cos Ronnie was still competing 10 years after Dorian quit. Dorian was at his best closer to Haney's era. And why would Ronnie refer to "their era's" if in Dorian's case he meant his own era. He then says (to paraphrase) "come on this is Ronnie's era" or something which renders your point mute. It's not a fact whether Dorian or Ronnie say it, just carefully chosen speculative words issued to the bodybuilding press. It's you who based the title of the original thread on Ronnie's words.
I kind of thought a lot of your argument was based on Ronnie's apparent lack of improvement from 96 to 98. I will now at least be able to quote you as saying he improved.
I kind of also thought that bringing the best package to the stage was a huge part of what makes bodybuilding so hard. Dennis James is famous for looking better 3 weeks before the show. Titus and Kamali always look the best they've looked in their kitchen with exaggerated shadows etc. Then.. step onstage and the stage lights wash it all away. This is why it's not surprising people look their best off-stage, often in their favourite pose. Of course Dorian knows his onions more than Kamali and Titus but you know as well as anyone to presume with '93 b/w 2 weeks out sock-wearing Dorian that areas like lower back would look water-free and up to Dorian's usual standard once he got under proper lights next to other competitors.
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wow says the guy who claims this shit is ' life or death ' for me or I'm ' melting down ' and wishes other members be hit by a bus and paralyzed for life , what are you 16? hypocrite much?
I would think "Obsessed" and "meltdown" would be textbook definitions of some guy that comes here every single day and puts up THOUSANDS of posts..... has the same argument, and says the same exact shit, for YEARS...... because he thinks bodybuilder A is better than bodybuilder B
you can't talk about anyone, except maybe Hulkster and BigBobs...you are the "big three" of obsessing over men in thongs.
A normal person would have said.."yeah, I think Dorian is better, but you are entitled to your opinion"...six years and 30,000 posts ago
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I dunno cos Ronnie was still competing 10 years after Dorian quit. Dorian was at his best closer to Haney's era. And why would Ronnie refer to "their era's" if in Dorian's case he meant his own era. He then says (to paraphrase) "come on this is Ronnie's era" or something which renders your point mute. It's not a fact whether Dorian or Ronnie say it, just carefully chosen speculative words issued to the bodybuilding press. It's you who based the title of the original thread on Ronnie's words.
I kind of thought a lot of your argument was based on Ronnie's apparent lack of improvement from 96 to 98. I will now at least be able to quote you as saying he improved.
I kind of also thought that bringing the best package to the stage was a huge part of what makes bodybuilding so hard. Dennis James is famous for looking better 3 weeks before the show. Titus and Kamali always look the best they've looked in their kitchen with exaggerated shadows etc. Then.. step onstage and the stage lights wash it all away. This is why it's not surprising people look their best off-stage, often in their favourite pose. Of course Dorian knows his onions more than Kamali and Titus but you know as well as anyone to presume with '93 b/w 2 weeks out sock-wearing Dorian that areas like lower back would look water-free and up to Dorian's usual standard once he got under proper lights next to other competitors.
I dunno cos Ronnie was still competing 10 years after Dorian quit. Dorian was at his best closer to Haney's era. And why would Ronnie refer to "their era's" if in Dorian's case he meant his own era. He then says (to paraphrase) "come on this is Ronnie's era" or something which renders your point mute. It's not a fact whether Dorian or Ronnie say it, just carefully chosen speculative words issued to the bodybuilding press. It's you who based the title of the original thread on Ronnie's words.
Ronnie & Dorian competed at the same time , Dorian's career was cut short due to injuries , Ronnie tuned pro a year after Dorian so they were in the same era. And technically Dorian's ' era ' ended when he retired but they were contemporaries , unlike Haney and Ronnie and Arnold.
I kind of thought a lot of your argument was based on Ronnie's apparent lack of improvement from 96 to 98. I will now at least be able to quote you as saying he improved.
The biggest area Ronnie improved on was his conditioning , he was already winning pro shows , beating , Kev , Shawn , Flex , Nasser , he already had the size , etc
I kind of also thought that bringing the best package to the stage was a huge part of what makes bodybuilding so hard. Dennis James is famous for looking better 3 weeks before the show. Titus and Kamali always look the best they've looked in their kitchen with exaggerated shadows etc. Then.. step onstage and the stage lights wash it all away. This is why it's not surprising people look their best off-stage, often in their favourite pose. Of course Dorian knows his onions more than Kamali and Titus but you know as well as anyone to presume with '93 b/w 2 weeks out sock-wearing Dorian that areas like lower back would look water-free and up to Dorian's usual standard once he got under proper lights next to other competitors.
Like I said many people considered this his best and said he could compete AND win the Olympia in that condition , like Yates himself said he was already in contest shape weeks out and then he realized at that point he was just losing pure muscle so that's the difference between him and Kamali & James
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let's see how long until ND cracks ;)
Joe Weider - IFBB Co-Founder
"Many experts, including reigning Mr.Olympia, Jay Cutler, believe that at his best Ronnie has the greatest physique of all-time. When looking at pictures of Ronnie from the 1998 Mr.Olympia, I find it hard to argue with that."
Team Flex - http://www.flexonline.com/training/49
"We've said before that the 245 pounds or so physique with which [Ronnie Coleman] won the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic is the best ever - unbeatable."
John Plummer – Flexonline 2003 Mr. Olympia Contest Review
"The long-awaited triple showdown between Coleman, Jay Cutler and Günter Schlierkamp failed to materialize as the defending champion destroyed all-comers with possibly the most awesome physique ever seen on a bodybuilding stage."
http://www.flexonline.com.au/216.html
Hany Rambod - MD, February 2004
"[Ronnie] was so far ahead of everyone else, I heard a rumor that his DNA actually tested positive for being an alien."
Lonnie Teper - MD, December 2005
"I've always said that it's too hard to compare athletes of different eras (then he names a few Mr. Olympias including Dorian). Still, it's hard to imagine that anybody who's ever stepped on a bodybuilding stage could have beaten Coleman. So I reserve the right to change my mind on this one. No offense to the rest of the champs - you were/are all truly amazing physique athletes - but Coleman has really taken it to the next level, as all magnificent conquerors do."
Peter McGough - Flex, August 2005
"Ronnie sporting that [01 ASC] look would, in my opinion, be unbeatable."
Peter McGough - Flex, April 2002
“[Ronnie Coleman] bounced back to win the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic with a physique that may have been the best ever seen.”
Shawn Perine Ironage Dec 11, 2004
“As much as I love Haney and my IA champs, I think Ronnie circa '98 or at the 2001 Arnold is pretty much untouchable. Except by Dorian Yates 6 weeks out from the '93 O as photographed by our own KMH. Both men, on those specific occasions carried so much dry muscle mass in good proportion and with good lines that it's almost unfair to compare them to others.”
Shawn Perine - Flex, July 2007 p. 207
"After all, he's still, even at 43 yrs old, eight-time Mr. O Ronnie freakin' Coleman. Which is to say, arguably the best bodybuilder who has ever lived."
Tony Doherty - Heavy Muscle Radio (03-16-09)
"Ronnie is the best ever. No one even comes close."
Tony Doherty - http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=270388.msg3803035#msg3803035
"Absolutely no question. The best ever, I have seen them and worked with them all. Seeing Ronnie in 2003 was like looking into the future!"
Raymond Cassar - Muscletime Editor and Photographer
"There is no one alive that can beat Ronnie Coleman when he is at his best - No One! (and his best for me was when he won the 2001 Arnold Classic)"
http://www.muscletime.com/news/contest-results/2007-mr-olympia-analysis
Steve Blechman - MD, February 2004
"Ronnie perseveres and proves continually that, at his best, he is unbeatable."
"Ronnie Coleman is not only the greatest Mr. O of all time, he is also one of the oldest"
Greg Merritt - Flex, July 2007 p. 212
"Coleman is only two years older than the new Mr. O (hypothetical article saying if Toney Freeman won), but time stops for no man, including the greatest bodybuilder who ever lived."
Greg Meritt – http://www.metroflexgymtraining.com/testimonials.html
“From the greatest bodybuilder of all-time, Ronnie Coleman, to gregarious owner Brian Dobson to the kid who joined yesterday, everyone is trying to push themselves further than ever before, and it’s the energy of this shared commitment that makes Metroflex great.”
Chris Lund (Paraphrased by Milos Sarcev) - European Flex, April 2004
"Chris Lund who I consider to be a great expert in our sport of bodybuilding, told me that Ronnie is simply the best bodybuilder he has ever seen, or photographed, and he has seen everybody, during the last 35 years."
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=237938.0
Hollis Liebman - Former Fitness Editor and IFBB Official
"The era of the big man would commence with Lee Haney (1984-1991), whose formidable torso would dominate the lineup for 8 straight years and was then elevated by Dorian Yates (1992-1997), whose back and overall conditioning upped the ante yet again until an alien named Ronnie Coleman (1998-2005), in all likelihood the greatest bodybuilder of all time, would redefine the sport bringing a near 300 pound contest ready physique to the stage."
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=238675.0
Flex Wheeler - MD, February 2004
"I'll go on record as saying Ronnie is truly the biggest, hardest, most shredded Mr. Olympia in history. No disrespect to anybody at all, but I'd to identify Ronnie Coleman as the greatest Mr. Olympia of all time."
Paul Dillet - MD, February 2004
"Understand that if Ronnie walked away tomorrow, I do not think anyone can measure up to the standards he has set. Just like Sergio Oliva, an awesome bodybuilder way ahead of his time, and like Flex Wheeler, who had an absolutely perfect, beautiful physique. No one will match Serigo or Flex and now Ronnie."
Mike Matarazzo – Flex, January 1999
“I think this creature from another planet, Ronnie Coleman, is going to be number one for a while. I think that, in the shape he was in, he would have beaten Dorian Yates. Ronnie has every single attribute it takes to be the greatest bodybuilder who ever lived.”
Jean Pierre Fux - Personal Website
"The current Mr. Olympia (Ronnie Coleman). In top shape, probably the best physique that ever stepped on stage."
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in before ND posts quotes from non-judges saying Dorian looked his best pre-contest but ignores quotes saying Ronnie is better b/c they "are not judges"
No dumb Neo , you're the one who claimed Ronnie wasn't fit to judge contests NOT I ;) I just used your logic against you , and I've been the ONLY one for a long time now saying in the end the only ones that matter are the judges. ;)
oh and to further make you look dense , IFBB Judge Dorian Yates said he looked his best 1993 precontest so what now? ;)
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let's see how long until ND cracks ;)
lets use Neo's own stupid logic against him ,
None of those guys are fit to judge ;D
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I would think "Obsessed" and "meltdown" would be textbook definitions of some guy that comes here every single day and puts up THOUSANDS of posts..... has the same argument, and says the same exact shit, for YEARS...... because he thinks bodybuilder A is better than bodybuilder B
you can't talk about anyone, except maybe Hulkster and BigBobs...you are the "big three" of obsessing over men in thongs.
A normal person would have said.."yeah, I think Dorian is better, but you are entitled to your opinion"...six years and 30,000 posts ago
You're a hypocrite you're the same guy fighting with Bobs and Sherif over the same trivial nonsense , quit bitching hypocrite.
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Neo I dont know why you keep up this charade, you and I both know you are a closet Dorian lover, I dont understand why you keep on riling this argument up. ;D
???
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No dumb Neo , you're the one who claimed Ronnie wasn't fit to judge contests NOT I I just used your logic against you , and I've been the ONLY one for a long time now saying in the end the only ones that matter are the judges.
lmao @ you trying to sound smart. I've been parodying you since day 1 to expose your hypocrisy and infantile arguments. You can't use my logic against me since, in essence, that means you are using your own logic against yourself ;)
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oh and to further make you look dense , IFBB Judge Dorian Yates said he looked his best 1993 precontest so what now?
you mean this guy? Ah, gotcha! ;D
Dorian Yates – PBW Radio Interview
"The judges would probably choose Ronnie [over me]."
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you mean this guy? Ah, gotcha! ;D
Dorian Yates – PBW Radio Interview
"The judges would probably choose Ronnie [over me]."
Omitting a part? The I guess I DON'T KNOW? oppppss purposely forgot that part huh? I wonder why ;)
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lets use Neo's own stupid logic against him , None of those guys are fit to judge
Joe Weider, the co-founder of the IFBB, isn't fit to apply the judging criteria he instituted in his own organization? ???
"Many experts, including reigning Mr.Olympia, Jay Cutler, believe that at his best Ronnie has the greatest physique of all-time. When looking at pictures of Ronnie from the 1998 Mr.Olympia, I find it hard to argue with that."
are you saying you know more about bodybuilding than Joe Weider?
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Omitting a part? The I guess I DON'T KNOW? oppppss purposely forgot that part huh? I wonder why
Did Dorian say "the judges would probably choose Ronnie" when asked who would win in a contest between the both of them? Yes or no?
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Joe Weider, the co-founder of the IFBB, isn't fit to apply the judging criteria he instituted in his own organization? ???
"Many experts, including reigning Mr.Olympia, Jay Cutler, believe that at his best Ronnie has the greatest physique of all-time. When looking at pictures of Ronnie from the 1998 Mr.Olympia, I find it hard to argue with that."
are you saying you know more about bodybuilding than Joe Weider?
Neo I dont know why you keep up this charade, you and I both know you are a closet Dorian lover, I dont understand why you keep on riling this argument up.
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lmao @ you trying to sound smart. I've been parodying you since day 1 to expose your hypocrisy and infantile arguments. You can't use my logic against me since, in essence, that means you are using your own logic against yourself ;)
Yeah , yeah sure , sure Neo
I've always maintained in the end only the judges matter , you think your popular opinion if proof of anything is laughable it's the most faulty logic
you can't even get the basics right , you're the guy who thinks balance & proportion are the same thing LMFAO and Ronnie's harder & drier , oh and he carries more muscular bulk ( with worse conditioning ironically ) than Dorian despite being 22lbs lighter lol
you're the one hopelessly in over your head and wants to prove to me so bad you can hang with the big boys , I'll be waiting for your next ' internet challenge ' lmfao when things aren't going your way in an argument try an internet challenge ;D
ah well, I'm off to the gym. I'll let ND and Mr.1derful continue posting in my absence. Who knows... maybe I'll compete in the next Mr. Getbig. I've put on a lot of size and worked on my weaknesses since Mr. Getbig 2. I would encourage ND to enter since he claims he's bigger than me but I know he'll just come up with an excuse to pussy out
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You're a hypocrite you're the same guy fighting with Bobs and Sherif over the same trivial nonsense , quit bitching hypocrite.
Apples and oranges....we go back and forth occasionally, sometimes it get out of hand, but it's more an ownage type thing all in fun. We say ridiculous shit about each other and everyone knows it's nonsense. Like i really threw Nasser down a flight of stairs ::) ::)
PS I haven't posted a word to any of them in a month
You have spent the better part of 33,000 posts on the same exact topic every single day, posting 1000 word manifestos....trying to shout everyone down who doesn't agree with you.
There is no comparison.
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^^^
b/c it's too fun watching ND meltdown and digress into an infantile mental state. He thinks by covering his eyes, the quotes that say Ronnie is better will magically disappear. I wonder at what age other humans also do this
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Joe Weider, the co-founder of the IFBB, isn't fit to apply the judging criteria he instituted in his own organization? ???
"Many experts, including reigning Mr.Olympia, Jay Cutler, believe that at his best Ronnie has the greatest physique of all-time. When looking at pictures of Ronnie from the 1998 Mr.Olympia, I find it hard to argue with that."
are you saying you know more about bodybuilding than Joe Weider?
The judging criteria FYI Neo was around longer than the IFBB was ;) the Weiders boosted a lot of things from other people ask Dan Laurie , Oh and Joe Weider once complained Sergio Oliva's waist was to small ???
Is Joe Weider a judge? NO using your own logic fanboy , he's NOT fit to judge contests , this is according to YOU , don't try and shift the topic my way.
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Apples and oranges....we go back and forth occasionally, sometimes it get out of hand, but it's more an ownage type thing all in fun. We say ridiculous shit about each other and everyone knows it's nonsense. Like i really threw Nasser down a flight of stairs ::) ::)
PS I haven't posted a word to any of them in a month
You have spent the better part of 33,000 posts on the same exact topic every single day, posting 1000 word manifestos....trying to shout everyone down who doesn't agree with you.
There is no comparison.
Nonsense , quit being a hypocrite you're guilty of doing the exact same thing , quit your bitching.
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Did Dorian say "the judges would probably choose Ronnie" when asked who would win in a contest between the both of them? Yes or no?
did Dorian say after that " I guess I don't know " ? you omitted that for a reason , your deceptive angling it proves you think the story ends there.
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I've always maintained in the end only the judges matter , you think your popular opinion if proof of anything is laughable it's the most faulty logic
the precedent set by judges at the Mr. Olympia is a trend favoring size. Dorian would lose to Ronnie for the same reason Gaspari lost to Haney and Dexter lost to Ronnie. As long as the biggest guy comes in with good conditioning and relatively good symmetry, he will beat out a smaller guy with great conditioning and balance.
you can't even get the basics right , you're the guy who thinks balance & proportion are the same thing LMFAO and Ronnie's harder & drier , oh and he carries more muscular bulk ( with worse conditioning ironically ) than Dorian despite being 22lbs lighter lol
newsflash: man landed on the moon. Any other old news you want to keep reminding us of? It's like me saying "you're the same guy who thinks 2+2=5." I may have confused balance and proportion 3 yrs ago but what does that have to do with this discussion?
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^^^
b/c it's too fun watching ND meltdown and digress into an infantile mental state. He thinks by covering his eyes, the quotes that say Ronnie is better will magically disappear. I wonder at what age other humans also do this
wow because I never addressed them dozens of times before. Neo said Ronnie's not fit to judge , then by your own retarded logic NONE of them are either and your exercise proves one thing , it's a popular opinion Ronnie would beat Dorian , go look up argument ad populum kid
And subjective opinions works two ways , some people ( who are NOT fit to judge contests either ) claim Dorian would beat Ronnie but Neo only sees what he likes , it's called counting the pluses and not counting the negatives , Christians do it often in apologetics.
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The judging criteria FYI Neo was around longer than the IFBB was the Weiders boosted a lot of things from other people ask Dan Laurie , Oh and Joe Weider once complained Sergio Oliva's waist was to small
Is Joe Weider a judge? NO using your own logic fanboy , he's NOT fit to judge contests , this is according to YOU , don't try and shift the topic my way.
epic avoiding my question. Are you saying you know more about bodybuilding than Joe Weider?
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did Dorian say after that " I guess I don't know " ? you omitted that for a reason , your deceptive angling it proves you think the story ends there.
Did Dorian say "the judges would probably choose Ronnie" when asked who would win in a contest between the both of them? Yes or no?
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the precedent set by judges at the Mr. Olympia is a trend favoring size. Dorian would lose to Ronnie for the same reason Gaspari lost to Haney and Dexter lost to Ronnie. As long as the biggest guy comes in with good conditioning and relatively good symmetry, he will beat out a smaller guy with great conditioning and balance.
newsflash: man landed on the moon. Any other old news you want to keep reminding us of? It's like me saying "you're the same guy who thinks 2+2=5." I may have confused balance and proportion 3 yrs ago but what does that have to do with this discussion?
the precedent set by judges at the Mr. Olympia is a trend favoring size. Dorian would lose to Ronnie for the same reason Gaspari lost to Haney and Dexter lost to Ronnie. As long as the biggest guy comes in with good conditioning and relatively good symmetry, he will beat out a smaller guy with great conditioning and balance.
2008 Mr Olympia Dexter Jackson , shuts that argument down thanks for playing and great job of cherry picking the judging criteria and making a blanket statement , the judges at the Mr Olympia set a trend that the winner is the guy who satisfies ALL of the IFBB judging criteria better than his contemporaries , you still can't grasp how contests are judged to this day
newsflash: man landed on the moon. Any other old news you want to keep reminding us of? It's like me saying "you're the same guy who thinks 2+2=5." I may have confused balance and proportion 3 yrs ago but what does that have to do with this discussion?
What's this have to do with this discussion? YOU didn't and still DO NOT know how contests work , you just verified this again , you can't say who would beat whom because you dont' even know the basics
Ronnie at a heavier weight than Dorian has WORSE balance & proportion , WORSE density & dryness , and he's not as good as a poser than Dorian , the extra weight is NOT pure muscle and it would serve no purpose
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epic avoiding my question. Are you saying you know more about bodybuilding than Joe Weider?
No avoiding the question , is Joe Weider an IFBB judge? NOPE thanks for playing
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Did Dorian say "the judges would probably choose Ronnie" when asked who would win in a contest between the both of them? Yes or no?
Did Dorian say I Guess I don't know? stop avoiding the question
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No avoiding the question , is Joe Weider an IFBB judge? NOPE thanks for playing
irrelevant. Ronnie isn't a judge either but that doesn't stop you from posting quotes from him and defending them by saying Ronnie's opinion is more valid ;)
now I'll ask you again: are you saying you know more about bodybuilding than Joe Weider?
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Did Dorian say I Guess I don't know? stop avoiding the question
stop answering a question with a question. All it does is make you look bad when you don't stand behind a quote from the same guy you keep quoting
did Dorian say "the judges would probably choose Ronnie" when asked who would win in a contest between the both of them? Yes or no?
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irrelevant. Ronnie isn't a judge either but that doesn't stop you from posting quotes from him and defending them by saying Ronnie's opinion is more valid ;)
now I'll ask you again: are you saying you know more about bodybuilding than Joe Weider?
NO not according to you dumb Neo it's most certainly NOT irrelevant in fact YOU brought up the point , these guys aren't fit to judge
And the Ronnie quotes are more valid than YOURS not a judges ;)
Do you know more about bodybuilding than Ronnie Coleman? or Dorian Yates? because he is an IFBB judge and you scoffed at the idea that's he's better conditioned than Ronnie , he's fit to judge you're not thanks for playing and needless to say I wont be waiting for you to answer my questions
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stop answering a question with a question. All it does is make you look bad when you don't stand behind a quote from the same guy you keep quoting
did Dorian say "the judges would probably choose Ronnie" when asked who would win in a contest between the both of them? Yes or no?
No you're the one being deceptive , you purposely omitted a part for a very good reason , did Dorian say to that I guess I don't know? did he also say it was a very hard question for him to answer ? stop acting like that's a definitive statement when nothing could be further than the truth
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Nonsense , quit being a hypocrite you're guilty of doing the exact same thing , quit your bitching.
you have twice as many posts melting over Dorian than i have in total ;)
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you have twice as many posts melting over Dorian than i have in total ;)
I have a lot of correcting to do , lots of simple minded people scratching their heads wondering how things are supposed to work
you have two options , don't read my posts if they bother you so much , or keep responding it makes no difference to me , I'll do what I do and I wont try and claim I'm above the nonsense all the while I'm doing the same thing on a less scale , you're getting sucked in just like the other fanboys did remember sport it takes two to tango ;)
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Could Dorian beat this?
no :)
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holy fuck !
both you 2 and anyone else "involved" are honestly fucked up in the head
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the precedent set by judges at the Mr. Olympia is a trend favoring size. Dorian would lose to Ronnie for the same reason Gaspari lost to Haney and Dexter lost to Ronnie. As long as the biggest guy comes in with good conditioning and relatively good symmetry, he will beat out a smaller guy with great conditioning and balance.
newsflash: man landed on the moon. Any other old news you want to keep reminding us of? It's like me saying "you're the same guy who thinks 2+2=5." I may have confused balance and proportion 3 yrs ago but what does that have to do with this discussion?
You are right but missing an important thing- Dorian over dieted each and every single time and was wayyyyy dry. Trust me, knowing Ronnie was pushing him he would have hit the stage plsu 20lbs over what we saw. He held back because his competitors were so much smaller, if he came in bloated it would look really bad.
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You are right but missing an important thing- Dorian over dieted each and every single time and was wayyyyy dry. Trust me, knowing Ronnie was pushing him he would have hit the stage plsu 20lbs over what we saw. He held back because his competitors were so much smaller, if he came in bloated it would look really bad.
(http://digilander.libero.it/mikementzer/Yates19.jpg)
this was impressive, this would look much better onstage
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(http://digilander.libero.it/mikementzer/Yates19.jpg)
this was impressive, this would look much better onstage
still no separation bro, arms in particular are awful
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You are right but missing an important thing- Dorian over dieted each and every single time and was wayyyyy dry. Trust me, knowing Ronnie was pushing him he would have hit the stage plsu 20lbs over what we saw. He held back because his competitors were so much smaller, if he came in bloated it would look really bad.
Dorian sacrificed size and fullness for conditioning. If you argue that he over-dieted, then you take away his advantage in conditioning. It would be like me saying Ronnie at 301 lbs wouldn't be smoother if he dieted more. Then he also wouldn't be so freaking huge. If you think Dorian looked better in those pre-contest B&W pics, then you eliminate his advantage in conditioning since you are now comparing a contest Ronnie to a 6-weeks out Dorian
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Dorian sacrificed size and fullness for conditioning. If you argue that he over-dieted, then you take away his advantage in conditioning. It would be like me saying Ronnie at 301 lbs wouldn't be smoother if he dieted more. Then he also wouldn't be so freaking huge. If you think Dorian looked better in those pre-contest B&W pics, then you eliminate his advantage in conditioning since you are now comparing a contest Ronnie to a 6-weeks out Dorian
He said outright that he was contest ready several weeks out and he just kept droppinge size in order to get harder and he realized he wasnt he came to the conclusion he was purely burning away muscle
You keep mistakenly think they are equal in terms of conditioning and they aren't Dorian would have an advantage in conditioning over Ronnie every year Ronnie may have equaled it at his lightest weights but not while carrying the size
look at Ronnie 98 his best conditioned Olympia he was just 249 lbs mext year 257lbs guess what his conditioning is off year 00 264lbs and off from 99 and way off from 98
this proves the heavier he became the worse his conditioning became Dorian could maintain higher bodyweights and still maintain his conditioning
Kevin Horton said in the 93 precontest pics he was in the top 3 in conditioning and untouchable in thickness
Dorian in no way shape or form loses ANY ground in conditioning to Ronnie especially not Ronnie at 300lbs
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You are right but missing an important thing- Dorian over dieted each and every single time and was wayyyyy dry. Trust me, knowing Ronnie was pushing him he would have hit the stage plsu 20lbs over what we saw. He held back because his competitors were so much smaller, if he came in bloated it would look really bad.
Great post !
here is Dorian at 283lbs Kevin Horton said this was the best he's ever seen him precontest 1995 he said Dorian was 280-285lbs shredded he said this conditioning hasn't been equaled to this day and he's seen the all
I think this would crush any Ronnie
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You are right but missing an important thing- Dorian over dieted each and every single time and was wayyyyy dry. Trust me, knowing Ronnie was pushing him he would have hit the stage plsu 20lbs over what we saw. He held back because his competitors were so much smaller, if he came in bloated it would look really bad.
LOLOLOL...funniest, most delusional post ever. :D
Now Dorian was "holding back" and had 20 pounds of spare muscle in the tank, in case of emergency
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH AAAAAAAAAAAAA....THAT IS HYSTERICAL
Of course ND agrees ::)
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Great post !
here is Dorian at 283lbs Kevin Horton said this was the best he's ever seen him precontest 1995 he said Dorian was 280-285lbs shredded he said this conditioning hasn't been equaled to this day and he's seen the all
I think this would crush any Ronnie
I see we are back to the He said/She said :D
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Ronnie & Dorian competed at the same time , Dorian's career was cut short due to injuries , Ronnie tuned pro a year after Dorian so they were in the same era. And technically Dorian's ' era ' ended when he retired but they were contemporaries , unlike Haney and Ronnie and Arnold.
The biggest area Ronnie improved on was his conditioning , he was already winning pro shows , beating , Kev , Shawn , Flex , Nasser , he already had the size , etc
Like I said many people considered this his best and said he could compete AND win the Olympia in that condition , like Yates himself said he was already in contest shape weeks out and then he realized at that point he was just losing pure muscle so that's the difference between him and Kamali & James
Well clearly in Ronnie's quote he makes a delineation between "their respective eras" and the "era of Ronnie Coleman", so perhaps you are finding fault in the truth and correctness of the quote? Would common sense not dictate the era of Ronnie would clearly begin in '98?
Ronnie's conditioning improving is still clearly a significant improvement as it meant going from 9th to 1st. We all know size isn't the most important thing, although I do feel that since in 2003 at 287lb he still had grooves in his hams and glutes bigger than Dorian's whole body he's still in good enough condition as well as size to get the job done. There's no pics from the back - to my knowledge - of the '95 Dorian shoot that one man Kevin Horton thinks is the best he's looked despite lack of stage lighting and no comparisons with other competitors. Also as a salesman of his own photographes would he not stand to benefit from bigging up his own subject?
If only Dorian had ever brought his supposed best look to a stage your argument would be so much stronger. Black and white stills are extremly impressive but they are still grainy black and white stills taken in a studio or dinjy backroom. Ronnie has a vastly superior port folio of stage appearances in colour etc.
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LOLOLOL...funniest, most delusional post ever. :D
Now Dorian was "holding back" and had 20 pounds of spare muscle in the tank, in case of emergency
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH AAAAAAAAAAAAA....THAT IS HYSTERICAL
Of course ND agrees ::)
He had a lot more than 20lbs he was ' holding back ' on ;) the above pic he's 283lbs in 1995
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I see we are back to the He said/She said :D
Yeah he's lying too , every single bodybuilder lies about everything and bodybuilding photographers lie too , it's a mass conspiracy to push Dorian you sound a lot like Hulkster
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He said outright that he was contest ready several weeks out and he just kept droppinge size in order to get harder and he realized he wasnt he came to the conclusion he was purely burning away muscle
lmao, sure. That's why he did it in 92, 93, 94, 95, and 96 ::)
You keep mistakenly think they are equal in terms of conditioning and they aren't Dorian would have an advantage in conditioning over Ronnie every year Ronnie may have equaled it at his lightest weights but not while carrying the size
contest Dorian vs 301 lbs Ronnie? Yes. However, 6 weeks pre-contest Dorian vs contest Ronnie? no
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here is Dorian at 283lbs Kevin Horton said this was the best he's ever seen him precontest 1995 he said Dorian was 280-285lbs shredded he said this conditioning hasn't been equaled to this day and he's seen the all
Kevin Horton isn't a judge ;)
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Well clearly in Ronnie's quote he makes a delineation between "their respective eras" and the "era of Ronnie Coleman", so perhaps you are finding fault in the truth and correctness of the quote? Would common sense not dictate the era of Ronnie would clearly begin in '98?
Ronnie's conditioning improving is still clearly a significant improvement as it meant going from 9th to 1st. We all know size isn't the most important thing, although I do feel that since in 2003 at 287lb he still had grooves in his hams and glutes bigger than Dorian's whole body he's still in good enough condition as well as size to get the job done. There's no pics from the back - to my knowledge - of the '95 Dorian shoot that one man Kevin Horton thinks is the best he's looked despite lack of stage lighting and no comparisons with other competitors. Also as a salesman of his own photographes would he not stand to benefit from bigging up his own subject?
If only Dorian had ever brought his supposed best look to a stage your argument would be so much stronger. Black and white stills are extremly impressive but they are still grainy black and white stills taken in a studio or dinjy backroom. Ronnie has a vastly superior port folio of stage appearances in colour etc.
Well clearly in Ronnie's quote he makes a delineation between "their respective eras" and the "era of Ronnie Coleman", so perhaps you are finding fault in the truth and correctness of the quote? Would common sense not dictate the era of Ronnie would clearly begin in '98?
Well even in the era of Ronnie Coleman he's said he wouldn't beat Dorian twice after that.
Ronnie's conditioning improving is still clearly a significant improvement as it meant going from 9th to 1st. We all know size isn't the most important thing, although I do feel that since in 2003 at 287lb he still had grooves in his hams and glutes bigger than Dorian's whole body he's still in good enough condition as well as size to get the job done. There's no pics from the back - to my knowledge - of the '95 Dorian shoot that one man Kevin Horton thinks is the best he's looked despite lack of stage lighting and no comparisons with other competitors. Also as a salesman of his own photographes would he not stand to benefit from bigging up his own subject?
Ronnie had groves in his hams and striated glutes bigger than Dorian's whole body? LMFAO where do you come up with this shit? and FYI having an ass as big as someone's whole body is a very bad thing in terms of a balanced physique which is part of the judging criteria , his conditioning pales in comparison to 1998/2001 and to Dorian
The 1995 shoot Kevin said he had more pics , yet he never posted them so much for a sales tool. he'd not living or dying off of Yates pics from 16 years ago
If only Dorian had ever brought his supposed best look to a stage your argument would be so much stronger. Black and white stills are extremly impressive but they are still grainy black and white stills taken in a studio or dinjy backroom. Ronnie has a vastly superior port folio of stage appearances in colour etc.
it has absolutely nothing to due with if he was on-stage , him stepping foot on a stage doesn't change how great he looked in those photos in fact he would be much more impressive under contest lighting , posing oil and a tan. Dorian's NO slouch on-stage in fact he dominated more than any Mr Olympia before or since ON-STAGE against people
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I see we are back to the He said/She said
;D ;D ;D
Chris Lund (Paraphrased by Milos Sarcev) - European Flex, April 2004
"Chris Lund who I consider to be a great expert in our sport of bodybuilding, told me that Ronnie is simply the best bodybuilder he has ever seen, or photographed, and he has seen everybody, during the last 35 years."
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=237938.0
Flex Wheeler - MD, February 2004
"I'll go on record as saying Ronnie is truly the biggest, hardest, most shredded Mr. Olympia in history. No disrespect to anybody at all, but I'd to identify Ronnie Coleman as the greatest Mr. Olympia of all time."
Mike Matarazzo – Flex, January 1999
“I think this creature from another planet, Ronnie Coleman, is going to be number one for a while. I think that, in the shape he was in, he would have beaten Dorian Yates. Ronnie has every single attribute it takes to be the greatest bodybuilder who ever lived.”
Tony Doherty - Heavy Muscle Radio (03-16-09)
"Ronnie is the best ever. No one even comes close."
Tony Doherty - http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=270388.msg3803035#msg3803035
"Absolutely no question. The best ever, I have seen them and worked with them all. Seeing Ronnie in 2003 was like looking into the future!"
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lmao, sure. That's why he did it in 92, 93, 94, 95, and 96 ::)
contest Dorian vs 301 lbs Ronnie? Yes. However, 6 weeks pre-contest Dorian vs contest Ronnie? no
Neo follow the bouncing ball ...92 ( 242lbs ) .....93 ( 257lbs ) .....94 ( 262lbs ).....95 ( 260lbs ) ....96 ( 257lbs ) ....97 ( 270lbs ) .... see a pattern of him coming in consistently heavier? with the exception of 96
HAHAHAHAHAHA Dorian at 269lbs is shaming Coleman at 301lbs in terms of conditioning that's not even open for debate Dorian at 283lbs shames Coleman at 301lbs
still struggling with what conditioning is and isn't huh? when will you learn
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Neo follow the bouncing ball ...92 ( 242lbs ) .....93 ( 257lbs ) .....94 ( 262lbs ).....95 ( 260lbs ) ....96 ( 257lbs ) ....97 ( 270lbs ) .... see a pattern of him coming in consistently heavier? with the exception of 96
???
heavy, heavier, lighter, lighter
I don't see a pattern of him coming in consistently heavier
HAHAHAHAHAHA Dorian at 269lbs is shaming Coleman at 301lbs in terms of conditioning that's not even open for debate Dorian at 283lbs shames Coleman at 301lbs
wtf are you talking about? Ronnie at 287 lbs was as conditioned as Dorian 6 weeks pre-contest. Even if Dorian was 283 lbs, Ronnie still outmasses him
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Kevin Horton isn't a judge ;)
You are right but his opinion on the topic certainly carries more weight than yours or mine ;)
and Dorian is a judge and he's said his conditioning is better than Ronnie's ;) and it's obvious to anyone who knows what conditioning is and isn't ;D not much leeway with this one sport , either someone is harder & drier or they're not , it's like proportions & balance not much wiggle room so it's really not subjective
works both ways sport ;)
Flex Magazine Jan 1999
Ernie Taylor
" When I saw Ronnie Coleman backstage before the prejudging , it was looking at ' three-D ' again. He looked fantastic. But I think if Dorian ( Yates ) were competing he would have won the show . "
Shawn Perine Ironage May 9 2009
Although I prefer the Reeves-Zane-Paris physique, I still contend that there was never a more complete, muscular human being to walk the earth than Dorian on the day Kevin Horton shot him pre-93 O. I was never so shocked by a set of bodybuilding photos as when I went through that article. Even Ronnie at his best, lacked Dorian's hardness and certainly his calves.
Quote from Julian Schmidt, "FLEX" magazine, on the November issue, 1998:
"Now that Dorian Yates, the thickest, densest and most annealed bodybuider in history has retired, Ronnie has taken the opportunity to become the new stndard-bearer. Something unlikely to have happened, if Dorian still competed."
Special Ed : Ronnie of Dorian competed in 1998 would you have smoked him?
Ronnie Coleman : NO I think he would have kept on winning as long as he competed I don't think he would have lost.
Taken out of FLEX nov 1999, page 90. interview by jim schmaltz with ronnie before the 99 Olympia.
Jim: What would have happened last year if Dorian Yates (recently retired winner of 6 straight Mr. Olympias) had competed?
Ronnie: Dorian would have won again.
Jim: You think so?
Ronnie: I know so. Dorian has a big physique - hard- and he's been the man to beat, and its hard to knock the champion off the block. He's a big guy and has a lot going for him. He overcame so many adversities, like his torn biceps, I couldnt see too much else stopping him.
4. A lot of people say that you are the only pro bodybuilder that could go head to head with Ronnie Coleman. Like him, you were the only other to be able to gain so much mass in one year. What are your thoughts on this?
Dorian Yates : A. I get asked that question all the time, and I can’t really give an answer.
While I’m on record as saying that the best physique I ever saw was Ronnie’s at the 2001 Arnold, he was never drier or harder than Dorian. In fact now that – 14 years after it happened – I recently for the first time saw the video of Dorian posing before the 1993 Olympia I have cause to rethink. I’m now not sure that Ronnie at 245 pounds would beat Dorian at 269 pounds. At a bigger bodyweight I think Ronnie would look soft next to an in-shape rock-hard Dorian.
On the subject of conditioning, no-one did it better than Dorian. He achieved a hardness and dryness (without losing fullness) that nobody has ever matched. In the flesh he looked even harder than he did in photos. It was like a statue made of granite was standing in front of you.
Peter Mcgough
"These words should not be taken lightly, because no bodybuilder has ever been as hard and dry as the man who won six Sandows."
Lee Priest
HOW DO YOU FEEL DORIAN WOULD FAIR AGAINST RONNIE COLEMAN NOW?
I think Dorian at his best (1993) would easily beat Ronnie. Dorian might not be as symmetrical as Ronnie, but all over he was more complete and in better condition at his best.
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You are right but his opinion on the topic certainly carries more weight than yours or mine
it doesn't matter. You said yourself quotes that aren't from judges don't matter. If you want to allow quotes from experts, then the consensus at Flex magazine is that Ronnie > Dorian. Their opinion on the topic certainly carries more weight than yours ;)
Team Flex - http://www.flexonline.com/training/49
"We've said before that the 245 pounds or so physique with which [Ronnie Coleman] won the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic is the best ever - unbeatable."
I deleted the rest of your post b/c your quotes are outdated and irrelevant. Who cares what so and so says about Dorian's conditioning if experts say Ronnie is the better bodybuilder? Also, quotes from pre- 01 ASC or 03 Mr Olympia are meaningless since they were made before Ronnie hit his peak
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???
heavy, heavier, lighter, lighter
I don't see a pattern of him coming in consistently heavier
wtf are you talking about? Ronnie at 287 lbs was as conditioned as Dorian 6 weeks pre-contest. Even if Dorian was 283 lbs, Ronnie still outmasses him
of course you don't he stood 242lbs his entire career ::)
wtf are you talking about? Ronnie at 287 lbs was as conditioned as Dorian 6 weeks pre-contest. Even if Dorian was 283 lbs, Ronnie still outmasses him
sure he is lmao says YOU and you don't even know what great conditioning is , you're the genius who posted pictures Dorian at the 1995 Mr Olympia and called him the Pilsbury doughboy in arguably his best showing in terms on conditioning
LMFAO Ronnie's ' out masses ' Dorian by weighing 4 more unconditioned pounds huh? hehehehehehe Oh wait I know what you mean he has bigger arms and quads that means out massing him yes that's hit ::) Dorian's massive everywhere not in certain parts and he's better conditioned i.e. he's carrying more lean mass , and the judges like what better? ALL of the criteria
Dorian at 283lbs murders Ronnie in terms of balance & proportion , density & dryness , and conditioned muscular bulk NOT ' soft ' size let's say condition is equal for the sake of argument , Dorian is still more complete , still has better balance & proportion and he's still a better poser , Ronnie CAN'T WIN ;)
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it doesn't matter. You said yourself quotes that aren't from judges don't matter. If you want to allow quotes from experts, then the consensus at Flex magazine is that Ronnie > Dorian. Their opinion on the topic certainly carries more weight than yours ;)
Team Flex - http://www.flexonline.com/training/49
"We've said before that the 245 pounds or so physique with which [Ronnie Coleman] won the 2001 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic is the best ever - unbeatable."
NO wrong again Neo , I said in the end only the judges matter. these quotes serve their purpose but in the end everyone has an opinion and popular opinion doesn't make it correct ;)
Ronnie wins in popular opinion that's it , popular opinion of the masses don't decide contest , you'll get NO argument from me it's a more popular opinion but it doesn't mean it's right.
and then we have to throw in all these quotes from people you contradicted which leads back to your hypocrisy of cherry picking ;D
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you're the genius who posted pictures Dorian at the 1995 Mr Olympia and called him the Pilsbury doughboy in arguably his best showing in terms on conditioning
damn straight! I would have trouble telling them apart if it weren't for Dorian's tan
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here is a side-by-side comparison of Ronnie 03 vs 96
now the difference in conditioning is NIGHT & DAY look at Ronnie's delts in 96 they show clear separation of all three heads , the show striations in the delts that he's clearly missing in 03 ( and even much earlier ) look at the separation and detail in the traps , infraspinatus , the teres , the lats , look at the much sharper separtion of the brachialis from the biceps and triceps brachii , all of the paper think skin looks shrink wrapped around pure muscle
Ronnie in 2003 is much heavier and ' fuller ' but he is NOT harder or drier like 96 , the extra ' size ' is not dense hard muscle or dried out skin it's not the muscles contain more fat which makes him heavier but not sharper , there is a very good reason why 2001 is heralded as his best showing , because he's full , hard , and dry as fuck and his balance & proportion is much better when he's lighter
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damn straight! I would have trouble telling them apart if it weren't for Dorian's tan
Which shows you don't have a clue on what conditioning is , see above ^^^^^^^
do you know the general consensus is Dorian was harder in 95 even compared to 93?
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damn straight! I would have trouble telling them apart if it weren't for Dorian's tan
:-\
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now the difference in conditioning is NIGHT & DAY look at Ronnie's delts in 96 they show clear separation of all three heads , the show striations in the delts that he's clearly missing in 03
he didn't have those striations at the 01 ASC either. What's your point?
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he didn't have those striations at the 01 ASC either. What's your point?
That his delts yes even in 2001 were carrying more sq fat than in 1996 , but his conditioning in 2001 shames 2003 , probably right on par with 1998 , Ronnie ironically had striations in his quads in 96 but were gone by 98 as well
this is 96 Yates v 01 Ronnie and the density & dryness in this pose is light & day I mean it's Dorian by a country mile
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That his delts yes even in 2001 were carrying more sq fat than in 1996
oh boy! Now we've heard it all. According to you, Ronnie in 96 had better conditioning than at the 01 ASC despite weighing more ::)
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oh boy! Now we've heard it all. According to you, Ronnie in 96 had better conditioning than at the 01 ASC despite also weighing more ::)
There we GO drawing your own conclusions , NO he had better conditioning obviously IN HIS DELTOIDS ( please show me where I ever said overall ) if we can clearly see striations there that aren't present in 01 , same with quads that means in those AREAS he's carrying less sq fat and water to obscure them
so when you type Ronnie at 287lbs is carrying more mass he's not carrying more conditioned mass and it's a night and day difference in this area compared to 2001 OVERALL Ronnie is much better conditioned than 2003 and the same can be said about 2001 compared to 1996 OVERALL he's better conditioned although not in the quads and delts
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There we GO drawing your own conclusions , NO he had better conditioning obviously IN HIS DELTOIDS ( please show me where I ever said overall ) if we can clearly see striations there that aren't present in 01 , same with quads that means in those AREAS he's carrying less sq fat and water to obscure them
so when you type Ronnie at 287lbs is carrying more mass he's not carrying more conditioned mass and it's a night and day difference in this area compared to 2001 OVERALL Ronnie is much better conditioned than 2003 and the same can be said about 2001 compared to 1996 OVERALL he's better conditioned although not in the quads and delts
riiiiiiight, let me guess... you think he used spot-reduction everywhere else but forgot about his delts? ::)
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riiiiiiight, let me guess... you think he used spot-reduction everywhere else but forgot about his delts? ::)
hahahahahaha that was funny... NOT... stop presuming what I think , the proof is in the pictures in 1996 you can clearly see all three heads of the deltoids separated from each other and so devoid of fat and water you can see striations ( which by the way are genetics :D ) it's painfully obvious that you can't see them in 2003/2001 what do you think is the explanation?
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Look at the delts , the striations , look at the separation in the arms how clearly defined and sharp it is , the back it's night and day
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When it came to coupling conditioning with thickness, Dorian was in a league of his own... :o
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Just got off the phone with Yates. He says "Coleman beats him hands down. Bye"
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;)
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LMFAO where do you come up with this shit?
The same place you come up with PURE IDIOCY like Dorian was "holding back" 20 lbs. of lean body mass for a rainy day...HaHahahahaHaHahahh aahaaaaaaaaaaa. :D :D :D :D
So "Mr blood and guts" was only-half assing it ?? ::) ::)
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The same place you come up with PURE IDIOCY like Dorian was "holding back" 20 lbs. of lean body mass for a rainy day...HaHahahahaHaHahahh aahaaaaaaaaaaa. :D :D :D :D
So "Mr blood and guts" was only-half assing it ?? ::) ::)
I never said he was ' holding back ' anything you are quoting words I never claimed. Methyl Mike said he held back so he didn't get that from the same place I did , try paying attention ;)
And to prove you wrong easily Dorian was 242lbs when he won in 1992 , he decided he could compete with more muscle in 1993 while maintaining the same level of conditioning , 1993 rolls around and boom 15lbs heavier same conditioning oppppsss PURE IDIOCY? I think not looks like someone had 15lbs he was ' holding back ' lets cue the old Groink excuse EVERY BODYBUILDER LIES ;D
And it was already explained to you he wasn't half assing it he realized he was in contest condition several weeks out and in an never ending quest to get harder & drier he was actually burning off pure muscle , unlike when Ronnie was winning, guys in Dorian's era were much better conditioned so he didn't want to take chances
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Well even in the era of Ronnie Coleman he's said he wouldn't beat Dorian twice after that.
Ronnie had groves in his hams and striated glutes bigger than Dorian's whole body? LMFAO where do you come up with this shit? and FYI having an ass as big as someone's whole body is a very bad thing in terms of a balanced physique which is part of the judging criteria , his conditioning pales in comparison to 1998/2001 and to Dorian
The 1995 shoot Kevin said he had more pics , yet he never posted them so much for a sales tool. he'd not living or dying off of Yates pics from 16 years ago
it has absolutely nothing to due with if he was on-stage , him stepping foot on a stage doesn't change how great he looked in those photos in fact he
would be much more impressive under contest lighting , posing oil and a tan. Dorian's NO slouch on-stage in fact he dominated more than any Mr Olympia before or since ON-STAGE against people
Well if you'll humour my comparison, I propose that Dennis James '03 2 weeks before the show would have been the best ever. Impossible to disprove right?
You already said a bunch of times Ronnie's quote and Dorian's corresponding quote both mean nothing so why is it coming up as the core of your argument so often?
There's a strong argument precontest Ronnie '02 is the best ever, although he never made it to the stage. The Ronnie argument doesn't have to base itself on 2 sets of black and white photographs taken weeks away from a stage by the same man and a quote from the guy who took them.
Haney was pretty dominant in his era but he wouldn't make top 10 in most people's hypothetical top-10s these days. Yet Ronnie said Haney would beat him. You don't have to 'presume to speak for Ronnie' to see that Ronnie may have been being a tad polite there. Yet in an hilarious way you feel he meant it about the others but not about Dorian....and it all means nothing .....but can still be used as evidence by you? Inadmissable surely?
(http://www.hardcorebodybuildingontheweb.com/precontestbible/Ronnie_Coleman_2.jpg)
(http://dorianyates.net/dorian/site/images/STYLES/dorianyates/images/gallery/images/dy22.jpg)
(http://www.3rbpic.com/sports/Body%20building/Lee%20Haney%20(1).jpg)
One things for sure, you clearly feel onstage Dorian has never brought as good a package as Ronnie onstage, since your entire argument hinges on b/w pics from before competitions. I could conceivably believe that 93 b/w Dorian would be the best ever, it's just so hard to guess how he'd look on a stage. For instance in the colour video of the 93 Horton shoot you can see Dorian's lower back is more puffy and less dry than what he brought to the stage. Still good condition I'm sure, but since his dominance was based on being insanely granite-like I think things like this would form important factors in an hypothetical 'best-ever'. I know Dorian said of himself he was losing 'pure muscle' in the following 2 weeks, but there's no way he was 100% dehydrated in the '93 pics since the last few days are most important in the dehydration process.
So what if we agree Ronnie = best physique on a stage, Dorian '93/95 = possible best physique ever unprovable/undisprovable ?
Personally I feel that since 95 Dorian only had one arm he'd never be my own choice as best physique ever. Which to me makes '93 Dorian the main contender. If we're nit picking his chest and quads would look small next to prime Ronnie, but then Ronnie would lose calves and side-tri shots. Who knows I guess. But '93 Dorian on stage was too small to be in the running I feel.
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;)
Another educated post by an educated man.
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ND: "Ronnie in 96 had better conditioning than at the 01 ASC" ::)
That his delts yes even in 2001 were carrying more sq fat than in 1996
how can you take a guy seriously when he claims Ronnie's 6th place showing at the 96 Mr O was more conditioned than at the 01 ASC?
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Well if you'll humour my comparison, I propose that Dennis James '03 2 weeks before the show would have been the best ever. Impossible to disprove right?
You already said a bunch of times Ronnie's quote and Dorian's corresponding quote both mean nothing so why is it coming up as the core of your argument so often?
There's a strong argument precontest Ronnie '02 is the best ever, although he never made it to the stage. The Ronnie argument doesn't have to base itself on 2 sets of black and white photographs taken weeks away from a stage by the same man and a quote from the guy who took them.
Haney was pretty dominant in his era but he wouldn't make top 10 in most people's hypothetical top-10s these days. Yet Ronnie said Haney would beat him. You don't have to 'presume to speak for Ronnie' to see that Ronnie may have been being a tad polite there. Yet in an hilarious way you feel he meant it about the others but not about Dorian....and it all means nothing .....but can still be used as evidence by you? Inadmissable surely?
(http://www.hardcorebodybuildingontheweb.com/precontestbible/Ronnie_Coleman_2.jpg)
(http://dorianyates.net/dorian/site/images/STYLES/dorianyates/images/gallery/images/dy22.jpg)
(http://www.3rbpic.com/sports/Body%20building/Lee%20Haney%20(1).jpg)
One things for sure, you clearly feel onstage Dorian has never brought as good a package as Ronnie onstage, since your entire argument hinges on b/w pics from before competitions. I could conceivably believe that 93 b/w Dorian would be the best ever, it's just so hard to guess how he'd look on a stage. For instance in the colour video of the 93 Horton shoot you can see Dorian's lower back is more puffy and less dry than what he brought to the stage. Still good condition I'm sure, but since his dominance was based on being insanely granite-like I think things like this would form important factors in an hypothetical 'best-ever'. I know Dorian said of himself he was losing 'pure muscle' in the following 2 weeks, but there's no way he was 100% dehydrated in the '93 pics since the last few days are most important in the dehydration process.
So what if we agree Ronnie = best physique on a stage, Dorian '93/95 = possible best physique ever unprovable/undisprovable ?
Personally I feel that since 95 Dorian only had one arm he'd never be my own choice as best physique ever. Which to me makes '93 Dorian the main contender. If we're nit picking his chest and quads would look small next to prime Ronnie, but then Ronnie would lose calves and side-tri shots. Who knows I guess. But '93 Dorian on stage was too small to be in the running I feel.
Good post. I pretty much agree with this. Dorian '93 was his best in terms of proportions and balance. In '95, tears already had their impact but his conditionong was better. So you can only guess what the mix of the two could have been. I feel that Ronnie's best (O' 98 closely followed by the 2001 ASC) would have had both '93 and '95 Dorian beat. Pictures are just pictures, otherwise Vic Richards would be the greatest ever. But also you have to take into account what people who saw them in the flesh said. And at least, when it comes to conditioning, seems that pretty much everyone gives it to Dorian.
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Another educated post by an educated man.
Are we wound a little tight there?
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Well if you'll humour my comparison, I propose that Dennis James '03 2 weeks before the show would have been the best ever. Impossible to disprove right?
You already said a bunch of times Ronnie's quote and Dorian's corresponding quote both mean nothing so why is it coming up as the core of your argument so often?
There's a strong argument precontest Ronnie '02 is the best ever, although he never made it to the stage. The Ronnie argument doesn't have to base itself on 2 sets of black and white photographs taken weeks away from a stage by the same man and a quote from the guy who took them.
Haney was pretty dominant in his era but he wouldn't make top 10 in most people's hypothetical top-10s these days. Yet Ronnie said Haney would beat him. You don't have to 'presume to speak for Ronnie' to see that Ronnie may have been being a tad polite there. Yet in an hilarious way you feel he meant it about the others but not about Dorian....and it all means nothing .....but can still be used as evidence by you? Inadmissable surely?
(http://www.hardcorebodybuildingontheweb.com/precontestbible/Ronnie_Coleman_2.jpg)
(http://dorianyates.net/dorian/site/images/STYLES/dorianyates/images/gallery/images/dy22.jpg)
(http://www.3rbpic.com/sports/Body%20building/Lee%20Haney%20(1).jpg)
One things for sure, you clearly feel onstage Dorian has never brought as good a package as Ronnie onstage, since your entire argument hinges on b/w pics from before competitions. I could conceivably believe that 93 b/w Dorian would be the best ever, it's just so hard to guess how he'd look on a stage. For instance in the colour video of the 93 Horton shoot you can see Dorian's lower back is more puffy and less dry than what he brought to the stage. Still good condition I'm sure, but since his dominance was based on being insanely granite-like I think things like this would form important factors in an hypothetical 'best-ever'. I know Dorian said of himself he was losing 'pure muscle' in the following 2 weeks, but there's no way he was 100% dehydrated in the '93 pics since the last few days are most important in the dehydration process.
So what if we agree Ronnie = best physique on a stage, Dorian '93/95 = possible best physique ever unprovable/undisprovable ?
Personally I feel that since 95 Dorian only had one arm he'd never be my own choice as best physique ever. Which to me makes '93 Dorian the main contender. If we're nit picking his chest and quads would look small next to prime Ronnie, but then Ronnie would lose calves and side-tri shots. Who knows I guess. But '93 Dorian on stage was too small to be in the running I feel.
Good analysis here, but I don't think Dorian in 1993 would be too small for GOAT consideration; afterall, he weighed 257 and was insanely conditioned. Granted, RC pre-contest 02 and also 03-04 onstage was insanely huge, but he didn't have the quality of his 98, 99, and 01 showings imo, nor the quality of Dorian in terms of conditioning. Guess it comes down to one's preference of sacrificing some size for max conditioning -vs- sacrificing some conditioning for max size. It's all subjective which is why none of us will ever agree. They were both great and it is a shame we never got to see them compete against each other during their primes.
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Guys give it a rest already, don't you get tired of debating this over and over again?
I've only been a part of this for just a couple of months and I'm already sick of it, you guys have been going since what, 2006? ???
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ND: "Ronnie in 96 had better conditioning than at the 01 ASC" ::)
how can you take a guy seriously when he claims Ronnie's 6th place showing at the 96 Mr O was more conditioned than at the 01 ASC?
Don't make things up and then put quotes around them as if I said them.
I said he had striated deltoids in 96 and doesn't in 2003/2001 you're reduced to lying because you know there is a very good reason why his delts are striated in 96 and not 01/03 but you can't admit the obvious
keep making things up Neo it shows you're getting frustrated by being corrected ;)
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Poor ND, reduced to feeble attempts to dig himself out of a hole :-\
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Well if you'll humour my comparison, I propose that Dennis James '03 2 weeks before the show would have been the best ever. Impossible to disprove right?
You already said a bunch of times Ronnie's quote and Dorian's corresponding quote both mean nothing so why is it coming up as the core of your argument so often?
There's a strong argument precontest Ronnie '02 is the best ever, although he never made it to the stage. The Ronnie argument doesn't have to base itself on 2 sets of black and white photographs taken weeks away from a stage by the same man and a quote from the guy who took them.
Haney was pretty dominant in his era but he wouldn't make top 10 in most people's hypothetical top-10s these days. Yet Ronnie said Haney would beat him. You don't have to 'presume to speak for Ronnie' to see that Ronnie may have been being a tad polite there. Yet in an hilarious way you feel he meant it about the others but not about Dorian....and it all means nothing .....but can still be used as evidence by you? Inadmissable surely?
One things for sure, you clearly feel onstage Dorian has never brought as good a package as Ronnie onstage, since your entire argument hinges on b/w pics from before competitions. I could conceivably believe that 93 b/w Dorian would be the best ever, it's just so hard to guess how he'd look on a stage. For instance in the colour video of the 93 Horton shoot you can see Dorian's lower back is more puffy and less dry than what he brought to the stage. Still good condition I'm sure, but since his dominance was based on being insanely granite-like I think things like this would form important factors in an hypothetical 'best-ever'. I know Dorian said of himself he was losing 'pure muscle' in the following 2 weeks, but there's no way he was 100% dehydrated in the '93 pics since the last few days are most important in the dehydration process.
So what if we agree Ronnie = best physique on a stage, Dorian '93/95 = possible best physique ever unprovable/undisprovable ?
Personally I feel that since 95 Dorian only had one arm he'd never be my own choice as best physique ever. Which to me makes '93 Dorian the main contender. If we're nit picking his chest and quads would look small next to prime Ronnie, but then Ronnie would lose calves and side-tri shots. Who knows I guess. But '93 Dorian on stage was too small to be in the running I feel.
Well if you'll humour my comparison, I propose that Dennis James '03 2 weeks before the show would have been the best ever. Impossible to disprove right?
No easy to prove wrong Dennis James has shit for balance & proportion , very high lats , long torso , short legs , calves are to high and to small for his quads, has never really been able to find the right balance between size & conditioning looks good in the most muscular and side chest he doesn't look good in many other poses , to many flaws
You already said a bunch of times Ronnie's quote and Dorian's corresponding quote both mean nothing so why is it coming up as the core of your argument so often?
well it means something but it's not proof he's right , it's very interesting how Ronnie views Dorian , he has a lot of respect for him and obviously thinks that Dorian would beat him after all Dorian beat him for years and he's the one guy Ronnie thought was good enough , I love how people go on and on about how Dorian shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breathe as Ronnie and there is no debate and then just to have Ronnie crush their opinion by conceding Dorian would beat him is just such a blow to their fanboy rantings it's great ;D Ronnie's opinion on the subject carries more weight than anyone on here that's for sure
There's a strong argument precontest Ronnie '02 is the best ever, although he never made it to the stage. The Ronnie argument doesn't have to base itself on 2 sets of black and white photographs taken weeks away from a stage by the same man and a quote from the guy who took them.
A strong argument from whom? ??? what's funny is anyone hates the precontest shots of Dorian but now love precontest shots of Ronnie , he's impressive , huge and in pretty good shape , still looks like shit compared to contests where he's totally dried out and hard as nails , it's pretty much established the heavier Ronnie became the worse his conditioning got , so the same thing applies he's bigger , not as hard as Dorian not as dry and he's still lagging behind in balance & proportion , I said this for years before I posted this quote anyone with half a brain can see for themselves
Wayne Demilla " I've said to Ronnie , " What you've got to realize is that in 98-99 you were probably in the best proportion you could be for your frame . Those muscles have gotten bigger. Just cos you're bigger , doesn't make you better . "
Haney was pretty dominant in his era but he wouldn't make top 10 in most people's hypothetical top-10s these days. Yet Ronnie said Haney would beat him. You don't have to 'presume to speak for Ronnie' to see that Ronnie may have been being a tad polite there. Yet in an hilarious way you feel he meant it about the others but not about Dorian....and it all means nothing .....but can still be used as evidence by you? Inadmissable surely?
Haney wouldn't make the top 10? oh I beg to differ by virtue of being an 8 time Olympia he's most assured in the top 10 , would his physique wins contests today? probably not but times changed if Haney was born in 1980 you're damn right he's be winning today. anyway to get to your point obviously he was paying lip service to past champions the difference with Dorian is subsequent to this quote , he's said a couple of times Dorian would beat him , that's the difference and Haney & Arnold never faced Ronnie and beat him Dorian did
One things for sure, you clearly feel onstage Dorian has never brought as good a package as Ronnie onstage, since your entire argument hinges on b/w pics from before competitions. I could conceivably believe that 93 b/w Dorian would be the best ever, it's just so hard to guess how he'd look on a stage. For instance in the colour video of the 93 Horton shoot you can see Dorian's lower back is more puffy and less dry than what he brought to the stage. Still good condition I'm sure, but since his dominance was based on being insanely granite-like I think things like this would form important factors in an hypothetical 'best-ever'. I know Dorian said of himself he was losing 'pure muscle' in the following 2 weeks, but there's no way he was 100% dehydrated in the '93 pics since the last few days are most important in the dehydration process.
I think Dorian 1993/1995 Mr Olympia would beat any version of Ronnie! all of his strength are still there as well as his advantages on a tad smaller scale , I thing precontest is his best because his frame looks almost perfect , he's not oversized for it like Ronnie , I agree with Peter McGough when he said when Dorian dropped weight he lost some ' roundness ' in his physique. I think Dorian carried his size extremely well and looks better heavier
The color video is of the poorest fucking quality , trying to ascertain an accurate representation of his conditioning based off of that is impossible. Dorian and others have said he was in near-enough contest condition to win the Olympia that year , I believe Dorian said he could have lost a little more water and that's it. let's say his conditioning is 98% of what it was that year at the Olympia , it's certainly better than anything Ronnie has shown at a similar weight , case in point the 2000 Mr Olympia where Ronnie was 264lbs
Quote Peter McGough Flex Magazine Jan 2001
RONNIE COLEMAN : ( 264lbs As big as a house , but holding water. In '98 , he was shredded and bone dry at 250 pounds. Last year ( 1999 ) he was 257 pounds but NOT as sharp as '98. This year ( 2000 ) at 264 pounds , he's not as sharp as 99 , which would seem to say that Ronnie is better at a lighter weight .
Ronnie's conditioning does NOT improve with extra weight , Dorian could maintain his while carrying more size. and Dorian's conditioning is NOT his own advantage over Ronnie , he has a clear advantage in balance & proportion , and posing
So what if we agree Ronnie = best physique on a stage, Dorian '93/95 = possible best physique ever unprovable/undisprovable ?
Personally I feel that since 95 Dorian only had one arm he'd never be my own choice as best physique ever. Which to me makes '93 Dorian the main contender. If we're nit picking his chest and quads would look small next to prime Ronnie, but then Ronnie would lose calves and side-tri shots. Who knows I guess. But '93 Dorian on stage was too small to be in the running I feel.
I think the best physique Ronnie ever displayed was on stage and the best one Dorian displayed was off , Dorian's onstage still has advantages over Ronnie on-stage and off , I really don't have to concede that conditioning is equal but for the sake of argument lets say it is , it would ONLY be at his lightest , then he still has to contend with a Yates carrying more muscular bulk , having better balance & proportion and being a better poser
Dorian's didn't have ' one arm ' in 1995 he has one bicep shorter than the other , Ronnie had TWO missing calves his entire career even at his best contest showing. but for sake of argument we'll say 1993 is his better year just based on the tear. you can claim his chest & quads would look small next to Ronnie because parts don't win contests poses do , the judges scan & look at the calves in the side-chest just as much as they do pecs , same with the front double biceps pose , the assess EVERYTHING in EVERY pose , they look for who has more muscular bulk , who has more balanced development , who is denser , who is drier , who is more complete , who is hitting the pose correctly ALL AT THE SAME TIME all of the criteria is assessed at once , so while the judges might look at Ronnie in the ab-thigh and say " wow awesome taper , huge quads , great symmetry " , they will be comparing him to Dorian and they'll be saying " not as hard or as dry , not carrying as much dense muscle , calves dominated by oversized quads , midsection not that great , not as complete "
they look at everything and while Ronnie does have some clear advantages over Dorian when we start to tally them ALL up Dorian satisfies ALL of the criteria better
1993 Olympia Dorian might look small next to a heavier Ronnie but Ronnie would look soft and out of shape , incomplete and unbalanced , Ronnie's extra weight ( which isn't even pure dense muscle ) does NOT compensate for his deficiencies in just about ALL of the other criteria
It seems like you and all these other guys can't get it through your heads there is a very good reason 2003 is NOT his best showing ever , it pales in comparison to 2001 in terms if balance & proportion , in terms of density & dryness , he's light but looks huge because of the sharp conditioning , and his posing always sucked
Dorian 1993 Mr Olympia vs Ronnie 2001 in my opinion would be real close and this is the only version I think that would give Dorian a real run for his money and this would be real close but I think Dorian still has em if not by a lot than a little.
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Poor ND, reduced to feeble attempts to dig himself out of a hole :-\
Find me where I claimed "Ronnie in 96 had better conditioning than at the 01 ASC" ;)
you can't do it because you're a liar ;D
Neo it ain't the first time you've lied trying to get out of being owned ;)
First, I didn't disagree with Peter McGough's claim that Ronnie was never harder or drier than Dorian.
again your quote
I'm sorry but Peter McGough is an idiot if he thinks 01 ASC Ronnie never surpassed Dorian's conditioning.
frustrated yet? as usual I bet you're wishing you just didn't follow me in here again , only to be made a fool out of again.
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No easy to prove wrong Dennis James has shit for balance & proportion , very high lats , long torso , short legs , calves are to high and to small for his quads, has never really been able to find the right balance between size & conditioning looks good in the most muscular and side chest he doesn't look good in many other poses, to many flaws
no different than you posting the same B&W front lat spread over and over from the 95 pre-contest Kevin Horton shoot. Let's see how he looks in the other poses before we start proclaiming that's his best physique ever
if we're going to judge physiques based on 1 or 2 pre-contest pics, then Dennis James beats Dorian
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Bodybuilders/DennisJames3.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Bodybuilders/DennisJames2.jpg)
A strong argument from whom? what's funny is anyone hates the precontest shots of Dorian but now love precontest shots of Ronnie , he's impressive , huge and in pretty good shape , still looks like shit compared to contests where he's totally dried out and hard as nails , it's pretty much established the heavier Ronnie became the worse his conditioning got , so the same thing applies he's bigger , not as hard as Dorian not as dry and he's still lagging behind in balance & proportion , I said this for years before I posted this quote anyone with half a brain can see for themselves
nobody is hating on Dorian's pre-contest pics. The problem is when you argue Dorian had contest-ready conditioning with pre-contest size and fullness at 6 weeks out to create a super megazord version of Dorian that never existed. Either pick the smaller, more conditioned Dorian that stepped onstage or the bigger but less conditioned Dorian at 6 weeks pre-contest
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no different than you posting the same B&W front lat spread over and over from the 95 pre-contest Kevin Horton shoot. Let's see how he looks in the other poses before we start proclaiming that's his best physique ever
if we're going to judge physiques based on 1 or 2 pre-contest pics, then Dennis James beats Dorian
nobody is hating on Dorian's pre-contest pics. The problem is when you argue Dorian had contest-ready conditioning with pre-contest size and fullness at 6 weeks out to create a super megazord version of Dorian that never existed. Either pick the smaller, more conditioned Dorian that stepped onstage or the bigger but less conditioned Dorian at 6 weeks pre-contest
no different than you posting the same B&W front lat spread over and over from the 95 pre-contest Kevin Horton shoot. Let's see how he looks in the other poses before we start proclaiming that's his best physique ever
if we're going to judge physiques based on 1 or 2 pre-contest pics, then Dennis James beats Dorian
The difference being stupid.................. ............ there's only one from the 1995 photoshoot :D I didn't start proclaiming it was his best physique ever Kevin Horton did and seeing he took the 1993 pics I have no reason to doubt him
Hehehehehehehehe Dennis James beats Dorian , funny guy ;D
nobody is hating on Dorian's pre-contest pics. The problem is when you argue Dorian had contest-ready conditioning with pre-contest size and fullness at 6 weeks out to create a super megazord version of Dorian that never existed. Either pick the smaller, more conditioned Dorian that stepped onstage or the bigger but less conditioned Dorian at 6 weeks pre-contest
the difference in condition is negligible , he said himself he was in near enough contest shape in those pics , he said he had to lose a tad bit of water , even the less than 100% condition still kills Ronnies in this area it's not debatable
that version of Dorian YOU fear existed and we have plenty of pics to confirm it
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Find me where I claimed "Ronnie in 96 had better conditioning than at the 01 ASC"
right here ;)
That his delts yes even in 2001 were carrying more sq fat than in 1996
what else could you mean if you claim Ronnie was denser and harder in 96 than the 01 ASC?
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right here ;)
what else could you mean if you claim Ronnie was denser and harder in 96 than the 01 ASC?
I said DELTS you omitted that part , you like being deceptive.
Let me teach you dumb Neo when a guy has striations in his delts ( which are genetics if the conditioning is there ) in 1996 and then his delts getting bigger yet you can't find them striations what does that tell us? he's delts are not as stripped of fat to see them , it's simple somethings obscuring them what ever can it be? ??? you do the math
now I never said OVERALL he had better conditioning in 2001 compared to 1996 which is what you deceptively tried to claim
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Well, this seems as good a time as any for a morphed photo of Nasser.
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Well, this seems as good a time as any for a morphed photo of Nasser.
bout how he looked in the european shows
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Well, this seems as good a time as any for a morphed photo of Nasser.
lmao
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dorian did have a dry, grainyness that ronnie never did. maybe its just because he was white.
the thing that seperates the two is the 3 dimensioinal cartoon thickness that ronnie had. dorian had cartoon freakyness, but not to the same degree ronnie did.
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dorian did have a dry, grainyness that ronnie never did. maybe its just because he was white.
the thing that seperates the two is the 3 dimensioinal cartoon thickness that ronnie had. dorian had cartoon freakyness, but not to the same degree ronnie did.
Id argue that. Ronnie is not very thick front to back if you really see pics of him from the angles.. Dorian on an angle gets retardo thick.
Case in point.
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Untouchable:
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Untouchable:
by you, fag
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by you, fag
Hello Pot
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Hello Pot
hello kettle, you thirsty for another protein-rich milkshake?
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Dorian%20Yates/NDisaFag1.jpg)
NDgay1.jpg
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the thing that seperates the two is the 3 dimensioinal cartoon thickness that ronnie had. dorian had cartoon freakyness, but not to the same degree ronnie did.
I saw Dorian compete on multiple occasions, and guest post at 305 lbs. There was no lack of 3D cartoon type thickness.
At the guest posing, his smallest body part was his head.
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the difference in condition is negligible , he said himself he was in near enough contest shape in those pics , he said he had to lose a tad bit of water , even the less than 100% condition still kills Ronnies in this area it's not debatable
that version of Dorian YOU fear existed and we have plenty of pics to confirm it
No doubt, that is an unbeatable physique.
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hello kettle, you thirsty for another protein-rich milkshake?
You're the homo who didn't get the reference and then changed it to " ND swallows my milkshake " what's that say about what's on your mind? :-X
try watching something other than Ronnie's ass for a change :-X
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You're the homo who didn't get the reference and then changed it to " ND swallows my milkshake " what's that say about what's on your mind?
you're the homo who didn't get the "Total Eclipse of the Heart" reference and then projected his thirst for Dorian Approved Protein Milkshakes onto me
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you're the homo who didn't get the "Total Eclipse of the Heart" reference and then projected his thirst for Dorian Approved Protein Milkshakes onto me
I got the reference and it's still fucking queer :-X
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I got the reference and it's still fucking queer
Oooohh, but telling a man you drink his milkshake isn't? Go up to a random guy and tell him that. See what happens.
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Oooohh, but telling a man you drink his milkshake isn't? Go up to a random guy and tell him that. See what happens.
I'm sure you've done that many times but I'll pass
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I'm sure you've done that many times but I'll pass
so you concede it's gay? Gotcha
in before ND contradicts himself by saying "I never conceded anything" yet won't tell a stranger "I drink your milkshake" b/c he knows it's gay
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so you concede it's gay? Gotcha
in before ND contradicts himself by saying "I never conceded anything" yet won't tell a stranger "I drink your milkshake" b/c he knows it's gay
No you still turned it into something gay , it wasn't the clip was about someone getting owned badly and that was you and then you switched it to " ND swallows my milkshake " now that's gay
you didn't get the reference and then I posted the clip you knew it wasn't about anything gay yet you continue change it for some reason you WANT it to be gay , more power to you :-X
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no different than you posting the same B&W front lat spread over and over from the 95 pre-contest Kevin Horton shoot. Let's see how he looks in the other poses before we start proclaiming that's his best physique ever
if we're going to judge physiques based on 1 or 2 pre-contest pics, then Dennis James beats Dorian
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Bodybuilders/DennisJames3.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Bodybuilders/DennisJames2.jpg)
nobody is hating on Dorian's pre-contest pics. The problem is when you argue Dorian had contest-ready conditioning with pre-contest size and fullness at 6 weeks out to create a super megazord version of Dorian that never existed. Either pick the smaller, more conditioned Dorian that stepped onstage or the bigger but less conditioned Dorian at 6 weeks pre-contest
Good point well made. James himself and his photographer said he was losing "pure muscle" leading up to the show, therefor these pics can be used to prove he's the best ever right?
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The difference being stupid.................. ............ there's only one from the 1995 photoshoot :D I didn't start proclaiming it was his best physique ever Kevin Horton did and seeing he took the 1993 pics I have no reason to doubt him
Hehehehehehehehe Dennis James beats Dorian , funny guy ;D
the difference in condition is negligible , he said himself he was in near enough contest shape in those pics , he said he had to lose a tad bit of water , even the less than 100% condition still kills Ronnies in this area it's not debatable
that version of Dorian YOU fear existed and we have plenty of pics to confirm it
Black and white stills "confirm" it, but the colour video is "of the poorest fucking quality , trying to ascertain an accurate representation of his conditioning based off of that is impossible"?
I don't like getting all accusative and calling people stupid but maybe time to take stock of what you're saying?
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No easy to prove wrong Dennis James has shit for balance & proportion , very high lats , long torso , short legs , calves are to high and to small for his quads, has never really been able to find the right balance between size & conditioning looks good in the most muscular and side chest he doesn't look good in many other poses , to many flaws
well it means something but it's not proof he's right , it's very interesting how Ronnie views Dorian , he has a lot of respect for him and obviously thinks that Dorian would beat him after all Dorian beat him for years and he's the one guy Ronnie thought was good enough , I love how people go on and on about how Dorian shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breathe as Ronnie and there is no debate and then just to have Ronnie crush their opinion by conceding Dorian would beat him is just such a blow to their fanboy rantings it's great ;D Ronnie's opinion on the subject carries more weight than anyone on here that's for sure
A strong argument from whom? ??? what's funny is anyone hates the precontest shots of Dorian but now love precontest shots of Ronnie , he's impressive , huge and in pretty good shape , still looks like shit compared to contests where he's totally dried out and hard as nails , it's pretty much established the heavier Ronnie became the worse his conditioning got , so the same thing applies he's bigger , not as hard as Dorian not as dry and he's still lagging behind in balance & proportion , I said this for years before I posted this quote anyone with half a brain can see for themselves
Wayne Demilla " I've said to Ronnie , " What you've got to realize is that in 98-99 you were probably in the best proportion you could be for your frame . Those muscles have gotten bigger. Just cos you're bigger , doesn't make you better . "
Haney wouldn't make the top 10? oh I beg to differ by virtue of being an 8 time Olympia he's most assured in the top 10 , would his physique wins contests today? probably not but times changed if Haney was born in 1980 you're damn right he's be winning today. anyway to get to your point obviously he was paying lip service to past champions the difference with Dorian is subsequent to this quote , he's said a couple of times Dorian would beat him , that's the difference and Haney & Arnold never faced Ronnie and beat him Dorian did
I think Dorian 1993/1995 Mr Olympia would beat any version of Ronnie! all of his strength are still there as well as his advantages on a tad smaller scale , I thing precontest is his best because his frame looks almost perfect , he's not oversized for it like Ronnie , I agree with Peter McGough when he said when Dorian dropped weight he lost some ' roundness ' in his physique. I think Dorian carried his size extremely well and looks better heavier
The color video is of the poorest fucking quality , trying to ascertain an accurate representation of his conditioning based off of that is impossible. Dorian and others have said he was in near-enough contest condition to win the Olympia that year , I believe Dorian said he could have lost a little more water and that's it. let's say his conditioning is 98% of what it was that year at the Olympia , it's certainly better than anything Ronnie has shown at a similar weight , case in point the 2000 Mr Olympia where Ronnie was 264lbs
Ronnie's conditioning does NOT improve with extra weight , Dorian could maintain his while carrying more size. and Dorian's conditioning is NOT his own advantage over Ronnie , he has a clear advantage in balance & proportion , and posing
I think the best physique Ronnie ever displayed was on stage and the best one Dorian displayed was off , Dorian's onstage still has advantages over Ronnie on-stage and off , I really don't have to concede that conditioning is equal but for the sake of argument lets say it is , it would ONLY be at his lightest , then he still has to contend with a Yates carrying more muscular bulk , having better balance & proportion and being a better poser
Dorian's didn't have ' one arm ' in 1995 he has one bicep shorter than the other , Ronnie had TWO missing calves his entire career even at his best contest showing. but for sake of argument we'll say 1993 is his better year just based on the tear. you can claim his chest & quads would look small next to Ronnie because parts don't win contests poses do , the judges scan & look at the calves in the side-chest just as much as they do pecs , same with the front double biceps pose , the assess EVERYTHING in EVERY pose , they look for who has more muscular bulk , who has more balanced development , who is denser , who is drier , who is more complete , who is hitting the pose correctly ALL AT THE SAME TIME all of the criteria is assessed at once , so while the judges might look at Ronnie in the ab-thigh and say " wow awesome taper , huge quads , great symmetry " , they will be comparing him to Dorian and they'll be saying " not as hard or as dry , not carrying as much dense muscle , calves dominated by oversized quads , midsection not that great , not as complete "
they look at everything and while Ronnie does have some clear advantages over Dorian when we start to tally them ALL up Dorian satisfies ALL of the criteria better
1993 Olympia Dorian might look small next to a heavier Ronnie but Ronnie would look soft and out of shape , incomplete and unbalanced , Ronnie's extra weight ( which isn't even pure dense muscle ) does NOT compensate for his deficiencies in just about ALL of the other criteria
It seems like you and all these other guys can't get it through your heads there is a very good reason 2003 is NOT his best showing ever , it pales in comparison to 2001 in terms if balance & proportion , in terms of density & dryness , he's light but looks huge because of the sharp conditioning , and his posing always sucked
Dorian 1993 Mr Olympia vs Ronnie 2001 in my opinion would be real close and this is the only version I think that would give Dorian a real run for his money and this would be real close but I think Dorian still has em if not by a lot than a little.
There is a lot of half-truth and hyperbole in your answer. You begin by CONTINUING at great length to cling to that stupid quote and pretend when Ronnie says "Arnold, Haney and Dorian" that he secretly means "Arnold, Haney but actually not Dorian". Who's presuming to speak for who? Ridiculous.
You pooh-pooh my Dennis James comparison because of what Kevin Horton said. In any one judging panel the judges often massively disagree, so this can only paint a 10th of the picture at best, assuming Kevin Horton is a judge.
Then you use some unsubstantiated generalisations like "ronnie looked worse bigger", "Dorian looked better bigger". Now I know many industry folk prefer Ronnie's 98 look, but my argument has always been Ronnie's big ugly insanely vascular 287 look is the most dominant he's brought to the stage. No he wasn't his absolute hardest, but he still ticked every box so many times they'd be forced to give him it over 257lb Dorian. Body parts may mean nothing but when every single thing is more developed and separated then the judges have little choice. Ronnie actually had big calves that year *this does not mean #1 best of all time*, and beat Dexter in the ab and thigh because, as Flex put it, he had 3 times more thigh.
"I believe Dorian said he could have lost a little more water and that's it. let's say his conditioning is 98% of what it was that year at the Olympia , it's certainly better than anything Ronnie has shown at a similar weight , case in point the 2000 Mr Olympia where Ronnie was 264lbs"
The water point was indeed exactly the point I was making. If you want to take the words "a little more" and equate them with "little enough so that he'd basically look his best ever on stage" then I can't stop you, but that's where the Dorian argument becomes speculative and the reality of the Ronnie argument begins to shine.
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Good post. I pretty much agree with this. Dorian '93 was his best in terms of proportions and balance. In '95, tears already had their impact but his conditionong was better. So you can only guess what the mix of the two could have been. I feel that Ronnie's best (O' 98 closely followed by the 2001 ASC) would have had both '93 and '95 Dorian beat. Pictures are just pictures, otherwise Vic Richards would be the greatest ever. But also you have to take into account what people who saw them in the flesh said. And at least, when it comes to conditioning, seems that pretty much everyone gives it to Dorian.
Cheers, well I mean I wasn't there, but I'd give conditioning alone to Dorian too. I think we should also remember Dorian was much bigger than many of his contemporaries, but 287lb Ronnie would make him look small whatever ND says. Dillet and Nasser had no backs so there was never a comparison there.
Good point about Vic Richards, there are many pictures and quotes to suggest he's the best ever, yet we know those studio photos tell us nothing of what he'd look like on a stage and conditioning from the back etc.
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There is a lot of half-truth and hyperbole in your answer. You begin by CONTINUING at great length to cling to that stupid quote and pretend when Ronnie says "Arnold, Haney and Dorian" that he secretly means "Arnold, Haney but actually not Dorian". Who's presuming to speak for who? Ridiculous.
You pooh-pooh my Dennis James comparison because of what Kevin Horton said. In any one judging panel the judges often massively disagree, so this can only paint a 10th of the picture at best, assuming Kevin Horton is a judge.
Then you use some unsubstantiated generalisations like "ronnie looked worse bigger", "Dorian looked better bigger". Now I know many industry folk prefer Ronnie's 98 look, but my argument has always been Ronnie's big ugly insanely vascular 287 look is the most dominant he's brought to the stage. No he wasn't his absolute hardest, but he still ticked every box so many times they'd be forced to give him it over 257lb Dorian. Body parts may mean nothing but when every single thing is more developed and separated then the judges have little choice. Ronnie actually had big calves that year *this does not mean #1 best of all time*, and beat Dexter in the ab and thigh because, as Flex put it, he had 3 times more thigh.
"I believe Dorian said he could have lost a little more water and that's it. let's say his conditioning is 98% of what it was that year at the Olympia , it's certainly better than anything Ronnie has shown at a similar weight , case in point the 2000 Mr Olympia where Ronnie was 264lbs"
The water point was indeed exactly the point I was making. If you want to take the words "a little more" and equate them with "little enough so that he'd basically look his best ever on stage" then I can't stop you, but that's where the Dorian argument becomes speculative and the reality of the Ronnie argument begins to shine.
There is a lot of half-truth and hyperbole in your answer. You begin by CONTINUING at great length to cling to that stupid quote and pretend when Ronnie says "Arnold, Haney and Dorian" that he secretly means "Arnold, Haney but actually not Dorian". Who's presuming to speak for who? Ridiculous.
I could care less about that quote it's the subsequent two that pretty much render that one useless. and we know that Ronnie meant Arnold & Haney but not Dorian because he said twice after that he wouldn't beat Dorian , so I'm not speaking for him only repeating what he said. and again Dorian beat Ronnie for years the other two never did
You pooh-pooh my Dennis James comparison because of what Kevin Horton said. In any one judging panel the judges often massively disagree, so this can only paint a 10th of the picture at best, assuming Kevin Horton is a judge.
no not because of what Kevin Horton said it's because of what Dorian said , Dennis James is NO Dorian Yates the main difference is when Dorian dropped size he still fucking destroyed everyone , Horton is NOT a judge but Yates is. And judges often massively disagree? says who? no quite the opposite judges often agree who the winner is if they didn't how would a contest ever get judged if there was such a discrepancy? judges are hand-picked for their consistency
Then you use some unsubstantiated generalisations like "ronnie looked worse bigger", "Dorian looked better bigger". Now I know many industry folk prefer Ronnie's 98 look, but my argument has always been Ronnie's big ugly insanely vascular 287 look is the most dominant he's brought to the stage. No he wasn't his absolute hardest, but he still ticked every box so many times they'd be forced to give him it over 257lb Dorian. Body parts may mean nothing but when every single thing is more developed and separated then the judges have little choice. Ronnie actually had big calves that year *this does not mean #1 best of all time*, and beat Dexter in the ab and thigh because, as Flex put it, he had 3 times more thigh.
You bitch about Horton not being a judge and then try and use Flex as one ::) and how is my claim ' unsubstantiated? how? Ronnie himself said it , as well as dozens of other people , compared to his lightest he looks worse bigger and here is the part where it become substantiated , his density & dryness are worse , his balance & proportion are worse this is proof he looks worse heavier you compare any pics of the two from 2001/2003 it's painfully obvious to anyone who knows what to look for that he's clearly better lighter
03 his most dominate? I could argue 2001ASC is but that's a matter of semantics because exactly who did he dominate over? NOT Dorian Yates and you keep insisting on cherry picking the criteria and mistakenly thinking more unconditioned size trumps all the other criteria and it doesn't , that's not how it works.
Ronnie had big calves that year? AND? they still lacked diamond shape , proportion in relation to his quads and development , stop mistaken size for quality , and another thing to keep doing is well Ronnie beat Dex and he's lighter more conditioned so he would therefore beat Dorian , Dorian is NOT Dexter Jackson , Ronnie may have a easy time with the ho-hum competition he faced , he never faced anyone in Dorian's league
The water point was indeed exactly the point I was making. If you want to take the words "a little more" and equate them with "little enough so that he'd basically look his best ever on stage" then I can't stop you, but that's where the Dorian argument becomes speculative and the reality of the Ronnie argument begins to shine.
The Ronnie argument shines? what argument? he down in density & dryness and balance & proportion but he's ' huge ' so he'll win? he beat Dexter so he'll win? really shines boy ::)
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Wow ....I did this nonsense for a week, and I was tired of going around in circles over the same dumb shit. Its beyond pointless.
You must have a screw loose to keep doing this for years. Isn't that the definition of insanity. ...keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. ??
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Wow ....I did this nonsense for a week, and I was tired of going around in circles over the same dumb shit. Its beyond pointless.
You must have a screw loose to keep doing this for years. Isn't that the definition of insanity. ...keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. ??
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You must have a screw loose to keep doing this for years. Isn't that the definition of insanity. ...keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. ??
Key post
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You're all complicit , you're all part of the problem. ;D
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Ronnie > Dorian ;D
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I could care less about that quote it's the subsequent two that pretty much render that one useless. and we know that Ronnie meant Arnold & Haney but not Dorian because he said twice after that he wouldn't beat Dorian , so I'm not speaking for him only repeating what he said. and again Dorian beat Ronnie for years the other two never did
no not because of what Kevin Horton said it's because of what Dorian said , Dennis James is NO Dorian Yates the main difference is when Dorian dropped size he still fucking destroyed everyone , Horton is NOT a judge but Yates is. And judges often massively disagree? says who? no quite the opposite judges often agree who the winner is if they didn't how would a contest ever get judged if there was such a discrepancy? judges are hand-picked for their consistency
You bitch about Horton not being a judge and then try and use Flex as one ::) and how is my claim ' unsubstantiated? how? Ronnie himself said it , as well as dozens of other people , compared to his lightest he looks worse bigger and here is the part where it become substantiated , his density & dryness are worse , his balance & proportion are worse this is proof he looks worse heavier you compare any pics of the two from 2001/2003 it's painfully obvious to anyone who knows what to look for that he's clearly better lighter
03 his most dominate? I could argue 2001ASC is but that's a matter of semantics because exactly who did he dominate over? NOT Dorian Yates and you keep insisting on cherry picking the criteria and mistakenly thinking more unconditioned size trumps all the other criteria and it doesn't , that's not how it works.
Ronnie had big calves that year? AND? they still lacked diamond shape , proportion in relation to his quads and development , stop mistaken size for quality , and another thing to keep doing is well Ronnie beat Dex and he's lighter more conditioned so he would therefore beat Dorian , Dorian is NOT Dexter Jackson , Ronnie may have a easy time with the ho-hum competition he faced , he never faced anyone in Dorian's league
The Ronnie argument shines? what argument? he down in density & dryness and balance & proportion but he's ' huge ' so he'll win? he beat Dexter so he'll win? really shines boy ::)
When Flex wrote that Ronnie won the ab and thigh because he has 3 times more thigh than Dexter they were simply backing up what the judges decreed. So I wasn't using Flex as a judge I was using the judges as a judge. You are using Dorian as a judge of himself ::) The guy knows his onions but then he said "Ronnie would probably win, I don't know", so he clearly thinks it'd be close. He must realise thighs are important in the ab and thigh and that Ronnie's 2003/2004 thighs were quite insane next to Dorian's of 93.
You keep calling 2003 R0nnie "unconditioned". Whilst I'll happily concede it's not Dorian level he's pretty dialled in.
In 2002 one judge had Ernie Taylor in 5th, another in 14th. He had himself 5th, as did the guy photographing him a couple of weeks before the show. Oldest scenario in bodybuilding that everything looks better a few weeks before the show, that what's so hard about competing!
(http://www.lifeinthefastlane.ca/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/body_builder_19sfw.gif)
(http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/656/ronniecolemanphoto34011.jpg)
If you watch the Ronnie one first Dorian almost has a Labrada-esque look of smallness when you watch the 93 vid.
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When Flex wrote that Ronnie won the ab and thigh because he has 3 times more thigh than Dexter they were simply backing up what the judges decreed. So I wasn't using Flex as a judge I was using the judges as a judge. You are using Dorian as a judge of himself ::) The guy knows his onions but then he said "Ronnie would probably win, I don't know", so he clearly thinks it'd be close. He must realise thighs are important in the ab and thigh and that Ronnie's 2003/2004 thighs were quite insane next to Dorian's of 93.
You keep calling 2003 R0nnie "unconditioned". Whilst I'll happily concede it's not Dorian level he's pretty dialled in.
In 2002 one judge had Ernie Taylor in 5th, another in 14th. He had himself 5th, as did the guy photographing him a couple of weeks before the show. Oldest scenario in bodybuilding that everything looks better a few weeks before the show, that what's so hard about competing!
If you watch the Ronnie one first Dorian almost has a Labrada-esque look of smallness when you watch the 93 vid.
When Flex wrote that Ronnie won the ab and thigh because he has 3 times more thigh than Dexter they were simply backing up what the judges decreed. So I wasn't using Flex as a judge I was using the judges as a judge. You are using Dorian as a judge of himself ::) The guy knows his onions but then he said "Ronnie would probably win, I don't know", so he clearly thinks it'd be close. He must realise thighs are important in the ab and thigh and that Ronnie's 2003/2004 thighs were quite insane next to Dorian's of 93.
No he wasn't backing up the judges decree , the judges decree isn't to have the biggest parts while neglecting proportion & balance so he's wrong and your interpretation on what he was ' backing up ' is wrong and NO you weren't using the judges as a judge you haven't and still only harp on one part of the criteria as an advantage over the rest ( muscular size ) and yes I'm using Dorian as a judge and he does know his opinions especially when he said outright he is better conditioned than Ronnie and has better balance , he also said it was a very hard question for him to answer he said a lot but you see what you liked
NOT one thing is more important in a pose than everything , the judges look for balance throughout the entire physique , proportion , they look for quads CALVES how well they compliment each other , they look for abs , serattus , intercostals , obliques , pecs , lats , they look for who is carrying more muscular bulk , if that muscular bulk is dense hard muscle , who is the driest they look at EVERYTHING at once and determine who meets it better , this is how it works commit this to memory and stop harping on the importance of bigger parts
You keep calling 2003 R0nnie "unconditioned". Whilst I'll happily concede it's not Dorian level he's pretty dialled in.
I didn't say ' unconditioned ' I said his conditioning pales in comparison to Dorian and it sucks even compared to 1998/2001 that pic proves my point
In 2002 one judge had Ernie Taylor in 5th, another in 14th. He had himself 5th, as did the guy photographing him a couple of weeks before the show. Oldest scenario in bodybuilding that everything looks better a few weeks before the show, that what's so hard about competing!
This proves what? judges are inconsistent ? just to let you know both the high & low scores are tossed out so a guy could lose poses and still finish with straight firsts this doesn't prove judges are inconsistent , and you keep trying to work in other examples and apply them to Dorian , Dorian isn't Ernie , Dennis James , or Kamali , the difference is while all these guys look ' good ' six weeks out NONE of the tied it all together the day of the show , Dorian did , he looked outstanding precontest 1993 and he looked just as outstanding the day of the contest albeit lighter
If you watch the Ronnie one first Dorian almost has a Labrada-esque look of smallness when you watch the 93 vid.
LMFAO Labraesque look , oh boy ...these guys create these fantasy comparisons where Ronnie is like Paul Bunyan where Dorian's hips & waist and joints are all smaller than Ronnie ( which would never be the case ) where Ronnie's calves are bigger than Dorian ( which would never be the case ) and believe them like mindless children , you stand Dorian 1993 next to Ronnie 2003 side-by-side a lot of fan-boys would be disappointed that Ronnie isn't making him look like a featherweight
Ronnie 2003 would be noticeably bigger but NOT fantasy big like you guys wish where Dorian looks like Labrada next to him LMFAO lots of things would be obvious , like Ronnie 2003 pales in comparison in density & dryness and balance & proportion and despite being down on ' size ' he would beat Ronnie 03 the same way Shawn Ray beat a 285 pound Nasser , better conditioning , better posing , and better overall package
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No he wasn't backing up the judges decree , the judges decree isn't to have the biggest parts while neglecting proportion & balance so he's wrong and your interpretation on what he was ' backing up ' is wrong and NO you weren't using the judges as a judge you haven't and still only harp on one part of the criteria as an advantage over the rest ( muscular size ) and yes I'm using Dorian as a judge and he does know his opinions especially when he said outright he is better conditioned than Ronnie and has better balance , he also said it was a very hard question for him to answer he said a lot but you see what you liked
NOT one thing is more important in a pose than everything , the judges look for balance throughout the entire physique , proportion , they look for quads CALVES how well they compliment each other , they look for abs , serattus , intercostals , obliques , pecs , lats , they look for who is carrying more muscular bulk , if that muscular bulk is dense hard muscle , who is the driest they look at EVERYTHING at once and determine who meets it better , this is how it works commit this to memory and stop harping on the importance of bigger parts
I didn't say ' unconditioned ' I said his conditioning pales in comparison to Dorian and it sucks even compared to 1998/2001 that pic proves my point
This proves what? judges are inconsistent ? just to let you know both the high & low scores are tossed out so a guy could lose poses and still finish with straight firsts this doesn't prove judges are inconsistent , and you keep trying to work in other examples and apply them to Dorian , Dorian isn't Ernie , Dennis James , or Kamali , the difference is while all these guys look ' good ' six weeks out NONE of the tied it all together the day of the show , Dorian did , he looked outstanding precontest 1993 and he looked just as outstanding the day of the contest albeit lighter
LMFAO Labraesque look , oh boy ...these guys create these fantasy comparisons where Ronnie is like Paul Bunyan where Dorian's hips & waist and joints are all smaller than Ronnie ( which would never be the case ) where Ronnie's calves are bigger than Dorian ( which would never be the case ) and believe them like mindless children , you stand Dorian 1993 next to Ronnie 2003 side-by-side a lot of fan-boys would be disappointed that Ronnie isn't making him look like a featherweight
Ronnie 2003 would be noticeably bigger but NOT fantasy big like you guys wish where Dorian looks like Labrada next to him LMFAO lots of things would be obvious , like Ronnie 2003 pales in comparison in density & dryness and balance & proportion and despite being down on ' size ' he would beat Ronnie 03 the same way Shawn Ray beat a 285 pound Nasser , better conditioning , better posing , and better overall package
I don't get your first paragraph, you know in the challenge round 2004 Ronnie actually beat Dexter in the ab and thigh? So all your judges waffle is superfluous cos Dexter destroys Ronnie on intercostals etc but it didn't mean dick. I know what Dorian said, I know it was hard question to answer etc, you say I'm picking the bits that suit my argument yet omit the part where he says Ronnie would probably win? Bwaha
You said I "keep insisting on cherry picking the criteria and mistakenly thinking more unconditioned size trumps all the other criteria and it doesn't , that's not how it works." So I said Ronnie's not unconditioned. Then you replied just now "I didn't say ' unconditioned". I can't keep up.
Earlier you said judges often massively disagree? says who? no quite the opposite judges often agree who the winner is if they didn't how would a contest ever get judged if there was such a discrepancy? judges are hand-picked for their consistency , so I gave an example where judges did disagree. Then you got very irritated.
Shawn Ray beating Nasser no-back was great. Had Nasser had possibly the best back of all time like Ronnie you might have a point. Sorry this is not the case.
Never said Ronnie had better calves or any of that rubbish, maybe you are arguing with somebody else.
The Labrada comparison was an exaggeration but it got under your skin didn't it cos although he dwarfs Labrada really he's still that much smaller than Ronnie's now not-unconditioned 2003 incarnation.
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The Labrada comparison was an exaggeration but it got under your skin didn't it cos although he dwarfs Labrada really he's still that much smaller than Ronnie's now not-unconditioned 2003 incarnation.
the judges at the Mr. Olympia set a precedent that favors size. Thus 03 Ronnie (287 lbs) would beat 93 Dorian (257 lbs) for the same reason Lee Haney beat the smaller, more conditioned, more balanced Gaspari
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Ronnie's advantage in size > Dorian's advantage in conditioning
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the judges at the Mr. Olympia set a precedent that favors size. Thus 03 Ronnie (287 lbs) would beat 93 Dorian (257 lbs) for the same reason Lee Haney beat the smaller, more conditioned, more balanced Gaspari
yeah apparently they forgot in 2008 and in 2006 ;)
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Ronnie's advantage in size > Dorian's advantage in conditioning
spoken exactly like someone who doesn't know how contests are judged ;D you forgot his advantage in balance & proportion and posing & presentation as well
wow he's bigger so he must be bigger textbook fanboy logic
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yeah apparently they forgot in 2008 and in 2006 ;)
lol, poor ND
how long was Lee Haney's reign? How long was Dorian's reign? How long was Ronnie's reign?
you think pointing out 2 yrs in the last 25 changes what I said? lmao
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spoken exactly like someone who doesn't know how contests are judged you forgot his advantage in balance & proportion and posing & presentation as well
spoken like a novice who doesn't know how bodybuilding contests are judged. You forgot about Ronnie's advantage in muscular bulk, size, mass, weight, shape, fullness, geometry, definition, detail, separations, striations, and charisma
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I don't get your first paragraph, you know in the challenge round 2004 Ronnie actually beat Dexter in the ab and thigh? So all your judges waffle is superfluous cos Dexter destroys Ronnie on intercostals etc but it didn't mean dick. I know what Dorian said, I know it was hard question to answer etc, you say I'm picking the bits that suit my argument yet omit the part where he says Ronnie would probably win? Bwaha
You said I "keep insisting on cherry picking the criteria and mistakenly thinking more unconditioned size trumps all the other criteria and it doesn't , that's not how it works." So I said Ronnie's not unconditioned. Then you replied just now "I didn't say ' unconditioned". I can't keep up.
Earlier you said judges often massively disagree? says who? no quite the opposite judges often agree who the winner is if they didn't how would a contest ever get judged if there was such a discrepancy? judges are hand-picked for their consistency , so I gave an example where judges did disagree. Then you got very irritated.
Shawn Ray beating Nasser no-back was great. Had Nasser had possibly the best back of all time like Ronnie you might have a point. Sorry this is not the case.
Never said Ronnie had better calves or any of that rubbish, maybe you are arguing with somebody else.
The Labrada comparison was an exaggeration but it got under your skin didn't it cos although he dwarfs Labrada really he's still that much smaller than Ronnie's now not-unconditioned 2003 incarnation.
I don't get your first paragraph, you know in the challenge round 2004 Ronnie actually beat Dexter in the ab and thigh? So all your judges waffle is superfluous cos Dexter destroys Ronnie on intercostals etc but it didn't mean dick. I know what Dorian said, I know it was hard question to answer etc, you say I'm picking the bits that suit my argument yet omit the part where he says Ronnie would probably win? Bwaha
there's a lot you don't get. Ronnie beat Dexter in the ab-thigh for multiple reasons you're attempting to connect the dots claiming if Ronnie beat Dex a smaller more conditioned guy he would beat Yates , not how it works. keep cherry picking it hasn't worked for you yet and it's not how contests work at all.
You said I "keep insisting on cherry picking the criteria and mistakenly thinking more unconditioned size trumps all the other criteria and it doesn't , that's not how it works." So I said Ronnie's not unconditioned. Then you replied just now "I didn't say ' unconditioned". I can't keep up.
you get lost easily , don't put words in quotations as if it's my statement, it's all semantics there is NO debate on who is better conditioned of the two or even between Ronnie compared to himself when he was lighter
Earlier you said judges often massively disagree? says who? no quite the opposite judges often agree who the winner is if they didn't how would a contest ever get judged if there was such a discrepancy? judges are hand-picked for their consistency , so I gave an example where judges did disagree. Then you got very irritated.
you gave me an example which wasn't accurate or even correct they often massively disagree that's a generalized statement and your ' proof ' was on example which didn't even take into account the drop the high & low scores
Shawn Ray beating Nasser no-back was great. Had Nasser had possibly the best back of all time like Ronnie you might have a point. Sorry this is not the case.
oh boy I knew you would harp on the back when ignoring the fact that he was heavier and softer and wasn't as good of a poser , a better back wouldn't have saved Nasser when he's lacking much more
Never said Ronnie had better calves or any of that rubbish, maybe you are arguing with somebody else.
I don't believe I said you claimed that
The Labrada comparison was an exaggeration but it got under your skin didn't it cos although he dwarfs Labrada really he's still that much smaller than Ronnie's now not-unconditioned 2003 incarnation.
It didn't get under my skin it's just foolish , just like when Hulkster claimed Ronnie had more detailed calves it's so far out of the realm of reality the absurdity isn't even worth taken seriously , it's laughable
Ronnie 2003 would be noticeably bigger at the expense of density , dryness , detail , balance & proportion the bigger softer size does not and would not account for his deficit in these areas this is how contests are judged , this is what you and Neo have a hard time grasping , whatever worked against Jay and Dexter and Gunther in 2003 does NOT apply to Dorian Yates
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ND, sorry to be harsh but Ronnie is better than Dorian
if it's any consolation, I feel that Dorian is the 2nd best bodybuilder of all-time :)
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lol, poor ND
how long was Lee Haney's reign? How long was Dorian's reign? How long was Ronnie's reign?
you think pointing out 2 yrs in the last 25 changes what I said? lmao
Still don't get it , Haney , Dorian and Ronnie all beat men heavier than them , it's no coincidence that they were usually the heaviest men in the contest but it wasn't the only reason they won
1998 O Ronnie beat , Nasser , Fux , Gunther , Dillett ALL who outweighed him
1999 O Ronnie beat , Nasser , Dillett , Fux and Rhul ALL who outweighed him
2000 O Ronnie beat , Nasser , Rhul , Gunther ALL who outweighed him
2001 O Ronnie beat , Nasser , Rhul , Gunther , ALL who outweighed him
2002 O Ronnie beat , Nasser , Gunther , Rhul , Atwood , ALL who outweighed him
I could run the rest with Dorian who most of the time was NOT the heaviest guy , Haney was usually the heaviest but not always
more often than NOT Ronnie was not the heaviest guy your ' logic ' is as usual severely lacking and contradictory to facts and reality
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spoken like a novice who doesn't know how bodybuilding contests are judged. You forgot about Ronnie's advantage in muscular bulk, size, mass, weight, shape, fullness, geometry, definition, detail, separations, striations, and charisma
hahahahahaha don't forget his advantage in ass-lines :-X
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u 2 should get toghether and sort it out like real men
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ND, sorry to be harsh but Ronnie is better than Dorian
if it's any consolation, I feel that Dorian is the 2nd best bodybuilder of all-time :)
Neo sorry to bust out facts but Ronnie faced Dorian a total of eight times and lost every single time ;)
and if it's any consolation he once came as close as 5th place to Dorian ;D
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Still don't get it , Haney , Dorian and Ronnie all beat men heavier than them , it's no coincidence that they were usually the heaviest men in the contest but it wasn't the only reason they won
1998 O Ronnie beat , Nasser , Fux , Gunther , Dillett ALL who outweighed him
1999 O Ronnie beat , Nasser , Dillett , Fux and Rhul ALL who outweighed him
2000 O Ronnie beat , Nasser , Rhul , Gunther ALL who outweighed him
2001 O Ronnie beat , Nasser , Rhul , Gunther , ALL who outweighed him
2002 O Ronnie beat , Nasser , Gunther , Rhul , Atwood , ALL who outweighed him
I could run the rest with Dorian who most of the time was NOT the heaviest guy , Haney was usually the heaviest but not always
more often than NOT Ronnie was not the heaviest guy your ' logic ' is as usual severely lacking and contradictory to facts and reality
you still don't get it, do you? Were any of those guys more conditioned than Mr Olympia? Did any of them have better backs? All you did was pick guys with size and nothing else. It's no different than me saying "Bob Paris was more balanced and proportionate than Haney but lost. Therefore, balance and proportion don' matter."
Ronnie was nowhere near as incomplete as any of the guys you mentioned. A more accurate parallel would be the smaller, more conditioned, more balanced Gaspari vs the bigger, less conditioned, less balanced Haney. Who did the judges choose? ;)
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you still don't get it, do you? Were any of those guys more conditioned than Mr Olympia? Did any of them have better backs? All you did was pick guys with size and nothing else. It's no different than me saying "Bob Paris was more balanced and proportionate than Haney but lost. Therefore, balance and proportion don' matter."
Ronnie was nowhere near as incomplete as any of the guys you mentioned. A more accurate parallel would be the smaller, more conditioned, more balanced Gaspari vs the bigger, less conditioned, less balanced Haney. Who did the judges choose? ;)
you still don't get it, do you? Were any of those guys more conditioned than Mr Olympia? Did any of them have better backs? All you did was pick guys with size and nothing else. It's no different than me saying "Bob Paris was more balanced and proportionate than Haney but lost. Therefore, balance and proportion don' matter."
NO it's you who doesn't ' get it ' you tried to use them as an example that the judging criteria favors size over the rest if the criteria and it's not how it works. like I always maintained ALL of the criteria matters than on part of it
Ronnie was nowhere near as incomplete as any of the guys you mentioned. A more accurate parallel would be the smaller, more conditioned, more balanced Gaspari vs the bigger, less conditioned, less balanced Haney. Who did the judges choose? ;)
still trying to connect the dots huh? :-\ Yates is NOT Gaspari and you keep trying to oversimplify the judging criteria to fit your position
Dorian 93 has a clear advantage in density , dryness , balance , proportion and he's a better poser , you think a 30 lb weight ' advantage ' that isn't even dense muscle trumps ALL of that? of course you do because you're dense but suffice it to say 2003 would fall flat on his face like every other time he faced Dorian
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NO it's you who doesn't ' get it ' you tried to use them as an example that the judging criteria favors size over the rest if the criteria and it's not how it works. like I always maintained ALL of the criteria matters than on part of it
??? show me where I said the judges favor size over ALL of the rest of the criteria
what I said is the precedent set by judges at the Mr. Olympia is a trend that favors size. What this means is if everything else is equal, the biggest guy with good conditioning will beat the smaller guy with great conditioning
Yates is NOT Gaspari and you keep trying to oversimplify the judging criteria to fit your position
no shit they are not the same person. Even someone who doesn't follow bodybuilding could tell you they are 2 different people. The point is a smaller, more conditioned, more balanced guy lost to a bigger, less conditioned, less balanced guy. You keep arguing that 93 Dorian would beat 03 Ronnie b/c he has better conditioning and balance. This is wishful thinking. Dorian would lose to Ronnie for the same reasons Gaspari lost to the less conditioned and less balanced Haney. That is not wishful thinking; it is the precedent set by the judges whom you keep claiming are the only ones whose opinion truly matters
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??? show me where I said the judges favor size over ALL of the rest of the criteria
what I said is the precedent set by judges at the Mr. Olympia is a trend that favors size. What this means is if everything else is equal, the biggest guy with good conditioning will beat the smaller guy with great conditioning
no shit they are not the same person. Even someone who doesn't follow bodybuilding could tell you they are 2 different people. The point is a smaller, more conditioned, more balanced guy lost to a bigger, less conditioned, less balanced guy. You keep arguing that 93 Dorian would beat 03 Ronnie b/c he has better conditioning and balance. This is wishful thinking. Dorian would lose to Ronnie for the same reasons Gaspari lost to the less conditioned and less balanced Haney. That is not wishful thinking; it is the precedent set by the judges whom you keep claiming are the only ones whose opinion truly matters
??? show me where I said the judges favor size over ALL of the rest of the criteria
what I said is the precedent set by judges at the Mr. Olympia is a trend that favors size. What this means is if everything else is equal, the biggest guy with good conditioning will beat the smaller guy with great conditioning
Ronnie's advantage in size > Dorian's advantage in conditioning right here fan boy , you omitted Dorian's other clear advantages in the judging criteria all in favor of size
everything isn't equal that's your whole problem , density & dryness aren't equal and neither is balance & proportion , and how about posing?
no shit they are not the same person. Even someone who doesn't follow bodybuilding could tell you they are 2 different people. The point is a smaller, more conditioned, more balanced guy lost to a bigger, less conditioned, less balanced guy. You keep arguing that 93 Dorian would beat 03 Ronnie b/c he has better conditioning and balance. This is wishful thinking. Dorian would lose to Ronnie for the same reasons Gaspari lost to the less conditioned and less balanced Haney. That is not wishful thinking; it is the precedent set by the judges whom you keep claiming are the only ones whose opinion truly matters
Where did you get Gaspari was better balanced than Haney? oohh another oversimplification bent to fit your point of view , Gaspari's structure was severely lacking , he was all legs and this is one area he had better balance & proportion over Haney and that's it , he was shorter , he had narrow clavicles , he was upper body lagged behind his lower , he had zero width his lat spreads sucked , his ab-thigh while hard & dry showed his narrowness , he was blocky so your analogy is wrong because all things weren't ' equal ' compared with Haney and Gaspari
And fast forward to 2003/1993 things aren't ' equal ' Dorian smokes him in almost all of the criteria sans muscular bulk , and what separates athletes when all things are ' equal ' ? who is better conditioned Flex and Ronnie 1998 it's said the contest was won by Ronnie because of hams & glutes
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only one thing worse than a gay troll who is obsessed with a steroided bodybuilder...a gay troll who fails to acknowledge that his obsession is pathological...yes ND you have issues!
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only one thing worse than a gay troll who is obsessed with a steroided bodybuilder...a gay troll who fails to acknowledge that his obsession is pathological...yes ND you have issues!
says the gimmick ;)
thanks for playing we have some lovely parting gifts for you
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says the gay troll....hahahahahahh,.....you need some new material!
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I've seen Ronnie's prejudging from '03 and his size is unmatched.
I've seen Dorian's prejudging from '93 and his proportions are unmatched.
Very hard call. Wish better quality videos were posted online.
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Excellent back comparison above, Jesus look at the difference! Ronnie's hams and glutes are MORE shredded than Dorians. I'm not saying overall he's in better condition, but having possibly the best hams and glutes this side of Gaspari is something even Dorian can't claim.
To say Dorian has superior balance and proportion is merely your opinion. The judges clearly felt Ronnie's was pretty good for 8 years. I personally think Ronnie's muscle bellies are fuller, waist is smaller. Yes ass is bigger, but if you look at the pics the difference in calves isn't even that noticeable from the back, or if it is it's not enough to make up for losing every other bodypart. No it's not all about size, but you've conceded before Ronnie has better symmetry. Crazy taper, great overall thickness, no missing bodyparts, powerful look and when he sucks his gut in he has great lines. Dorian is no oil painting, Ronnie has always been considered more aesthetic by many, including me :)
As said above, Dorian's conditioning is not enough to make up for the 330lb of quality shape and size Ronnie carries with still totally shredded lower body from the rear, MORE shredded than Dorian. He has every angle covered apart from hardness from the front.
Also era would matter. In late 70s yeah Dorian might win. In early 2000s Ronnie would win. Now who knows, except that most people, including Dorian when quizzed directly and in context, suspect Ronnie might win.
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Excellent back comparison above, Jesus look at the difference! Ronnie's hams and glutes are MORE shredded than Dorians. I'm not saying overall he's in better condition, but having possibly the best hams and glutes this side of Gaspari is something even Dorian can't claim.
To say Dorian has superior balance and proportion is merely your opinion. The judges clearly felt Ronnie's was pretty good for 8 years. I personally think Ronnie's muscle bellies are fuller, waist is smaller. Yes ass is bigger, but if you look at the pics the difference in calves isn't even that noticeable from the back, or if it is it's not enough to make up for losing every other bodypart. No it's not all about size, but you've conceded before Ronnie has better symmetry. Crazy taper, great overall thickness, no missing bodyparts, powerful look and when he sucks his gut in he has great lines. Dorian is no oil painting, Ronnie has always been considered more aesthetic by many, including me :)
As said above, Dorian's conditioning is not enough to make up for the 330lb of quality shape and size Ronnie carries with still totally shredded lower body from the rear, MORE shredded than Dorian. He has every angle covered apart from hardness from the front.
Also era would matter. In late 70s yeah Dorian might win. In early 2000s Ronnie would win. Now who knows, except that most people, including Dorian when quizzed directly and in context, suspect Ronnie might win.
Excellent back comparison above, Jesus look at the difference! Ronnie's hams and glutes are MORE shredded than Dorians. I'm not saying overall he's in better condition, but having possibly the best hams and glutes this side of Gaspari is something even Dorian can't claim.
What is the difference between hams & glutes ? you're just like Hulkster making claims what's the difference? besides Ronnie's being grossly oversized and out of balance with the rest of his physique. Dorian's are striated why are his better? the same with hamstrings what makes his better? take a look at Dorian's hams compared to Ronnies , tell me what muscle he has developed that Dorian doesn't and how they are better , stop making empty claims
To say Dorian has superior balance and proportion is merely your opinion. The judges clearly felt Ronnie's was pretty good for 8 years. I personally think Ronnie's muscle bellies are fuller, waist is smaller. Yes ass is bigger, but if you look at the pics the difference in calves isn't even that noticeable from the back, or if it is it's not enough to make up for losing every other bodypart. No it's not all about size, but you've conceded before Ronnie has better symmetry. Crazy taper, great overall thickness, no missing bodyparts, powerful look and when he sucks his gut in he has great lines. Dorian is no oil painting, Ronnie has always been considered more aesthetic by many, including me :)
To say Dorian has superior balance and proportion is merely your opinion. The judges clearly felt Ronnie's was pretty good for 8 years.
It's not only my opinion and it's obvious to anyone with eyeballs and a general understanding of what balance & proportion are , especially compared to Ronnie 03. it's crystal clear to anyone who knows what to look for that directly compared against Dorian , Ronnie's calves aren't in proportion with his quads or his glutes are so grossly oversized they can actually be seen from the front , not so on Dorian , or forearms that are in proportion with the biceps/triceps , etc
and the judges thought it was pretty good for 8 years COMPARED with who he was competing with , was he competing with Dorian? I mean seriously this is your response?
Ronnie's muscle bellies are fuller? you mean carrying more SQ fat instead of dense muscle? his waist is smaller but his entire midsection pales in comparison , abdominals , intercostals , serrauts , obliques , all not as sharply defined what advantage is this? Dorian doesn't lose on every other bodypart another overstatement and parts don't win poses , on paper Ronnie should have a much better ab-thigh yet he doesn't same with the side-triceps this is where balance & proportion come into play to tie everything together
I've conceding Ronnie has better ' symmetry ' meaning narrower waist & hips , smaller joints , but the other part of symmetry he doesn't balance & proportion . crazy taper? part of symmetry which you keep typing differing parts as an advantage in the same criteria. great overall thickness? at the expense of conditioning. no missing bodyparts? LMFAO enough said you typed this at the beginning of this thread and it's still laughable his calves are MISSING missing the classic diamond shape , missing proportionate size in relation to his oversized quads , missing development & separaton of the gastrocnemious inner & outer heads , I mean stop typing this nonsense
And great lines huh? lol spoken like a delusional fanboy , Ronnie more aesthetic than Dorian? is not saying much , what's more aesthetic a tank or a dump truck because neither are aesthetic in the classic sense of the word , you think Ronnie is aesthetic because he has a narrow waist & hips and small joints? WRONG much more to aesthetics than that my friend
The Greek Ideal is the hallmark of an aesthetic physique , having the neck , arms and calves ALL the same size , you think Ronnie meets this? 24" arms and 17" calves ? nope sorry , in ancient Greece they found most of the statutes that had aesthetic appeal all had great calves , abdominals and delts , these are the foundations of an aesthetic physique you think Ronnie is aesthetic while missing two out of three? balance & proportion are also part & parcel of an aesthetic physique , there is much , much more to an aesthetic physique than just a small waist & taper , again Ronnie may be more ' aesthetic ' than Dorian but that's not saying much
As said above, Dorian's conditioning is not enough to make up for the 330lb of quality shape and size Ronnie carries with still totally shredded lower body from the rear, MORE shredded than Dorian. He has every angle covered apart from hardness from the front.
oh boy lol so redundant size and lower body conditioning matter more than total conditioning , balance , and completeness , gotcha ::)
Also era would matter. In late 70s yeah Dorian might win. In early 2000s Ronnie would win. Now who knows, except that most people, including Dorian when quizzed directly and in context, suspect Ronnie might win.
who knows? we know in fact Ronnie's said twice that Dorian would beat him NOT mind you ' might beat him ' he said in fact when asked ' you think so ' Ronnie's reply was " I KNOW SO " ;)
Ronnie feels even after he started winning Dorian still would have beat him , that speaks volumes on how great he thinks Dorian is regardless if you agree or not.
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Damn ND, take it easy now, don't you get tired of writing paragraphs and paragraphs of this over and over again?
Interesting title change... :) when did Dorian say that?
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Damn ND, take it easy now, don't you get tired of writing paragraphs and paragraphs of this over and over again?
Interesting title change... :) when did Dorian say that?
I never get tired of correcting people ;D
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Ronnie's muscle bellies are fuller? you mean carrying more SQ fat instead of dense muscle?
??? ??? ???
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/03%20Mr%20Olympia/RonnieColeman5abc.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/03%20Mr%20Olympia/RonnieColeman134a.jpg)
The Greek Ideal is the hallmark of an aesthetic physique , having the neck , arms and calves ALL the same size , you think Ronnie meets this? 24" arms and 17" calves ?
lol, "17 inch calves" Right... Ronnie's calves at 287 lbs are 1 inch bigger than mine ::)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/03%20Mr%20Olympia/RonnieJayCalves.jpg)
what does that make Jay's calves? 18 inches?
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??? ??? ???
lol, "17 inch calves" Right... Ronnie's calves at 287 lbs are 1 inch bigger than mine ::)
what does that make Jay's calves? 18 inches?
He showed very good conditioning for the weight , how does it compared to 2001/1998? it really doesn't and how does it compare to Dorian? same thing it really doesn't , the difference in conditioning isn't negligible it's noticeable
17" calves probably not but ain't much bigger and they still suck :-\ and they still aren't the same size or anywhere near the size of his arms that year
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He showed very good conditioning for the weight , how does it compared to 2001/1998? it really doesn't and how does it compare to Dorian? same thing it really doesn't , the difference in conditioning isn't negligible it's noticeable
stop comparing 03 Ronnie vs 98/01 Ronnie. He doesn't need to compete against himself in conditioning. This discussion is about Dorian vs Ronnie, and Ronnie's huge advantage in size and muscularity outweighs the difference in conditioning
17" calves probably not but ain't much bigger and they still suck and they still aren't the same size or anywhere near the size of his arms that year
Ronnie's calves were comparable in size to Jay's that year and if you want to argue they weren't balanced with his arms, then Dorian's arms weren't anywhere near the size or detail of Ronnie's arms. So whatever difference in balance you want to penalize Ronnie for, then Dorian falls short in size and detail
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stop comparing 03 Ronnie vs 98/01 Ronnie. He doesn't need to compete against himself in conditioning. This discussion is about Dorian vs Ronnie, and Ronnie's huge advantage in size and muscularity outweighs the difference in conditioning
Ronnie's calves were comparable in size to Jay's that year and if you want to argue they weren't balanced with his arms, then Dorian's arms weren't anywhere near the size or detail of Ronnie's arms. So whatever difference in balance you want to penalize Ronnie for, then Dorian falls short in size and detail
stop comparing 03 Ronnie vs 98/01 Ronnie. He doesn't need to compete against himself in conditioning. This discussion is about Dorian vs Ronnie, and Ronnie's huge advantage in size and muscularity outweighs the difference in conditioning
you mean stop pointing out the glaring difference in when Ronnie is on and off , at his best Ronnie would be lucky to compare favorably in conditioning to Yates in 03 HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA not even close , the huge advantage in size is NOT dense muscle so therefore it's not a huge advantage , and Dorian's HUGE advantage in density & dryness and balance & proportion and posing ALL trump Ronnie's ' advantage ' in ' size '
please learn noob NO one part of the criteria supercedes all of it
Ronnie's calves were comparable in size to Jay's that year and if you want to argue they weren't balanced with his arms, then Dorian's arms weren't anywhere near the size or detail of Ronnie's arms. So whatever difference in balance you want to penalize Ronnie for, then Dorian falls short in size and detail
so you'd like to think if that was IT and it's NOT go reread the clear advantages in balance & proportion I typed , Ronnie's calves suck which is more of a liability than Dorian's biceps , this is how it works.
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you mean stop pointing out the glaring difference in when Ronnie is on and off
no, I mean let's focus on what this discussion is about: Ronnie vs Dorian. You're the village idiot comparing Ronnie to Ronnie :-\
at his best Ronnie would be lucky to compare favorably in conditioning to Yates in 03 HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA not even close , the huge advantage in size is NOT dense muscle so therefore it's not a huge advantage , and Dorian's HUGE advantage in density & dryness and balance & proportion and posing ALL trump Ronnie's ' advantage ' in ' size '
you must have me confused with someone else. Show me where I said 03 Ronnie is comparable in conditioning to Dorian. What I've been saying throughout this thread is Ronnie's advantage in size > Dorian's advantage in conditioning. Even if Ronnie's was carrying 12 lbs extra fat and water, the difference in muscle would still be greater
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no, I mean let's focus on what this discussion is about: Ronnie vs Dorian. You're the village idiot comparing Ronnie to Ronnie :-\
you must have me confused with someone else. Show me where I said 03 Ronnie is comparable in conditioning to Dorian. What I've been saying throughout this thread is Ronnie's advantage in size > Dorian's advantage in conditioning. Even if Ronnie's was carrying 12 lbs extra fat and water, the difference in muscle would still be greater
no, I mean let's focus on what this discussion is about: Ronnie vs Dorian. You're the village idiot comparing Ronnie to Ronnie :-\
I have , I did , I will , Ronnie ANY year doesn't compare to Dorian in terms of conditioning it's a settled case and any size advantage doesn't trump this and the other criteria
you must have me confused with someone else. Show me where I said 03 Ronnie is comparable in conditioning to Dorian. What I've been saying throughout this thread is Ronnie's advantage in size > Dorian's advantage in conditioning. Even if Ronnie's was carrying 12 lbs extra fat and water, the difference in muscle would still be greater
You actually tried to say Ronnie was better conditioned although maybe not in this thread however I digress . I know what you've been saying and it's wrong
an extra 12lbs of fat & water? so you're saying if Ronnie was 275lbs he would have conditioning on par with Yates? or like his previous best showings? I think NOT
we've seen Ronnie with peak conditioning in 1998/2001 and he was 249/247lbs respectively , and he's no where near it , there was enough of a difference between 1998 and 1999 to warrant a commentary on it and that was with a just an 8lb difference and another commentary on it compared to 2000 with another 7lbs difference , which outright proves he was better at a lighter weight and his conditioning suffered for it even with just 8lbs now you would be very delusional if you don't think the discrepancy between 1998 and 2003 is much , much more than 12lbs
and this brings us back to Dorian who always had better conditioning than Ronnie , much more so than Ronnie 2003 with better balance & proportion and posing Dorian would trample Ronnie again , NO weight advantage can negate all of this it simply can't
then to quell all of this nonsense about a weight advantage we'll use Dorian precontest 1995 283lbs , harder & drier than Ronnie at that weight , better balance & proportion , more complete so like Ronnie YOU still lose ;D
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I have , I did , I will , Ronnie ANY year doesn't compare to Dorian in terms of conditioning
sorry hun, but 01 ASC Ronnie surpassed Dorian's conditioning. This isn't even up for debate as much as you like you try
an extra 12lbs of fat & water? so you're saying if Ronnie was 275lbs he would have conditioning on par with Yates? or like his previous best showings? I think NOT
how is this any different than you saying Dorian was hiding 20 lbs of muscle before a contest? ???
if Ronnie was 287 lbs with shredded glutes and feathered lats, then why is it hard to believe he could have stepped onstage at 275 lbs with even better conditioning? He was in the high 260s or low 270s in the 02 BFTO and we all know he over-dieted for the Mr. Olympia that year. There is a quote out there by Kevin Horton saying his physique on that day was the freakiest he had seen. It's not far-fetched that he was a few lbs heavier the following year from training hard after his loss at the GNC
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I give up, you're right Ronnie was carrying too much subcutaneous fat in 2003....30lbs worth rendering his blatant and significant size advantage an illusion.
The difference between '98 and 2003 was Ronnie being 'on' and Ronnie being 'off', so Ronnie was 'off' in 2003 right?
Furthermore I now realise Dorian's glutes and hams are just as good as Ronnie's. There is no muscle Ronnie has developed more than Dorian....not even biceps, quads (look at the sartorius!)hams, glutes, chest or delts.........and recycling words like "density" from quotes in the mid-90s actually overrides all visual evidence, apart from grainy black and white pics of course, rendering it "no comparison".
Ronnie "doesn't compare" to Dorian, bwahaha, the king of superfluous hyperbole strikes again.
I hate lowering myself to this name calling rubbish at the expense of rational debate. I respect your intelligence but sometimes you are a complete joke.
then to quell all of this nonsense about a weight advantage we'll use Dorian precontest 1995 283lbs , harder & drier than Ronnie at that weight , better balance & proportion , more complete so like Ronnie YOU still lose
= Sad desperate projection of a phantasy stage showing. Torn biceps, sorry "one biceps shorter than the other", only 1 witness whose statement you hang everything on, and 1 studio b/w pic. I really can't believe you made such a meal of the 99 darkened pics when your whole dream is based on a single b/w studio pic which only recently emerged, completely mental. At least Ronnie was on a stage. You don't even feel the need to see any back shots of Dorian from the 95 shoot, yet profess total knowledge of the judging criteria.
I feel I've more than shown myself to be your match when it comes to level-headed analysis but you too often exaggerate things. In 98 aparently all the Kevins and Shawn Rays and Nassers and Flexes ceased to be a decent standard of competition, the glory days ended for you, it became easy to win the Olympia, you didn't even need balance and proportion or condition, none of the same things Dorian needed in his era - which according to you is actually Ronnie's era too ??? Mental.
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sorry hun, but 01 ASC Ronnie surpassed Dorian's conditioning. This isn't even up for debate as much as you like you try
how is this any different than you saying Dorian was hiding 20 lbs of muscle before a contest? ???
if Ronnie was 287 lbs with shredded glutes and feathered lats, then why is it hard to believe he could have stepped onstage at 275 lbs with even better conditioning? He was in the high 260s or low 270s in the 02 BFTO and we all know he over-dieted for the Mr. Olympia that year. There is a quote out there by Kevin Horton saying his physique on that day was the freakiest he had seen. It's not far-fetched that he was a few lbs heavier the following year from training hard after his loss at the GNC
sorry hun, but 01 ASC Ronnie surpassed Dorian's conditioning. This isn't even up for debate as much as you like you try
hun? WTF ??? I'm sure you believe Ronnie surpassed Dorian's conditioning now if you could find someone of worth to agree with you ;D for the sake of argument I'm always willing to concede he may have equaled it but surpassed while maintaining fullness and muscular bulk? sorry wrong answer
if Ronnie was 287 lbs with shredded glutes and feathered lats, then why is it hard to believe he could have stepped onstage at 275 lbs with even better conditioning? He was in the high 260s or low 270s in the 02 BFTO and we all know he over-dieted for the Mr. Olympia that year. There is a quote out there by Kevin Horton saying his physique on that day was the freakiest he had seen. It's not far-fetched that he was a few lbs heavier the following year from training hard after his loss at the GNC
hehehehehehe shredded glutes and fathered lats , look at the complete difference in density & dryness between 2001 and 2003 it's night day ( to those of us who know what to look for ) his conditioning lighter may very well be better than heavier but you're claiming that he's carrying conditioning on par with or better than Yates at 275lbs and that's fantasy
what we know , at his best conditioned he was his lightest , the heavier he became the worse his conditioning became , with just a 8 pound difference between 98/99 it warranted a commentary now the difference between 249lbs and 287lbs in terms of density & dryness is staggering
RONNIE COLEMAN : ( 264lbs As big as a house , but holding water. In '98 , he was shredded and bone dry at 250 pounds. Last year ( 1999 ) he was 257 pounds but NOT as sharp as '98. This year ( 2000 ) at 264 pounds , he's not as sharp as 99 , which would seem to say that Ronnie is better at a lighter weight .
mentioning the obvious
While I’m on record as saying that the best physique I ever saw was Ronnie’s at the 2001 Arnold, he was never drier or harder than Dorian. In fact now that – 14 years after it happened – I recently for the first time saw the video of Dorian posing before the 1993 Olympia I have cause to rethink. I’m now not sure that Ronnie at 245 pounds would beat Dorian at 269 pounds. At a bigger bodyweight I think Ronnie would look soft next to an in-shape rock-hard Dorian.
On the subject of conditioning, no-one did it better than Dorian. He achieved a hardness and dryness (without losing fullness) that nobody has ever matched. In the flesh he looked even harder than he did in photos. It was like a statue made of granite was standing in front of you.
again mentioning the obvious , At a bigger bodyweight I think Ronnie would look soft next to an in-shape rock-hard Dorian. 2003 ;D ;)
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He would look softer yes, just like Muntzer made a lot of people look soft that he lost to anyway.
I'm gonna side with Mike Matarazzo, Flex, Dorian and all the others who say Ronnie would probably win.
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He would look softer yes, just like Muntzer made a lot of people look soft that he lost to anyway.
I'm gonna side with Mike Matarazzo, Flex, Dorian and all the others who say Ronnie would probably win.
you do that ignore Ronnie and the multiple times he said Dorian would beat him , as well as Ernie Taylor , and Lee Priest ;)
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hun? WTF
isn't that how you talk with your customers at your flower shop?
I'm sure you believe Ronnie surpassed Dorian's conditioning now if you could find someone of worth to agree with you for the sake of argument I'm always willing to concede he may have equaled it but surpassed while maintaining fullness and muscular bulk? sorry wrong answer
;)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Ronnie%20Coleman/01%20ASC/RonnieStats.jpg)
in before ND claims he's not a judge so the quote doesn't matter
hehehehehehe shredded glutes and fathered lats , look at the complete difference in density & dryness between 2001 and 2003 it's night day ( to those of us who know what to look for ) his conditioning lighter may very well be better than heavier but you're claiming that he's carrying conditioning on par with or better than Yates at 275lbs and that's fantasy
why are you scared of 03 Ronnie? If he's so "off" as you put it, then you should have no problem since this makes it easier for you to argue why Dorian is better. Instead, you adamantly contend that 03 was not his prime and even try to counter by picking a larger version of Dorian (i.e. 95 pre-contest)
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you do that ignore Ronnie and the multiple times he said Dorian would beat him , as well as Ernie Taylor , and Lee Priest ;)
Sorry, game's over for you. Too many contradictions.
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I give up, you're right Ronnie was carrying too much subcutaneous fat in 2003....30lbs worth rendering his blatant and significant size advantage an illusion.
The difference between '98 and 2003 was Ronnie being 'on' and Ronnie being 'off', so Ronnie was 'off' in 2003 right?
Furthermore I now realise Dorian's glutes and hams are just as good as Ronnie's. There is no muscle Ronnie has developed more than Dorian....not even biceps, quads (look at the sartorius!)hams, glutes, chest or delts.........and recycling words like "density" from quotes in the mid-90s actually overrides all visual evidence, apart from grainy black and white pics of course, rendering it "no comparison".
Ronnie "doesn't compare" to Dorian, bwahaha, the king of superfluous hyperbole strikes again.
I hate lowering myself to this name calling rubbish at the expense of rational debate. I respect your intelligence but sometimes you are a complete joke.
then to quell all of this nonsense about a weight advantage we'll use Dorian precontest 1995 283lbs , harder & drier than Ronnie at that weight , better balance & proportion , more complete so like Ronnie YOU still lose
= Sad desperate projection of a phantasy stage showing. Torn biceps, sorry "one biceps shorter than the other", only 1 witness whose statement you hang everything on, and 1 studio b/w pic. I really can't believe you made such a meal of the 99 darkened pics when your whole dream is based on a single b/w studio pic which only recently emerged, completely mental. At least Ronnie was on a stage. You don't even feel the need to see any back shots of Dorian from the 95 shoot, yet profess total knowledge of the judging criteria.
I feel I've more than shown myself to be your match when it comes to level-headed analysis but you too often exaggerate things. In 98 aparently all the Kevins and Shawn Rays and Nassers and Flexes ceased to be a decent standard of competition, the glory days ended for you, it became easy to win the Olympia, you didn't even need balance and proportion or condition, none of the same things Dorian needed in his era - which according to you is actually Ronnie's era too ??? Mental.
I give up, you're right Ronnie was carrying too much subcutaneous fat in 2003....30lbs worth rendering his blatant and significant size advantage an illusion.
The difference between '98 and 2003 was Ronnie being 'on' and Ronnie being 'off', so Ronnie was 'off' in 2003 right?
No the size advantage wouldn't be an illusion but it's not the advantage you wish it would be , especially considering it's not dense muscle
Ronnie 2003 was off in terms of density & dryness compared to 1998/2001 and Dorian absolutely no , if ands or buts about it
Furthermore I now realise Dorian's glutes and hams are just as good as Ronnie's. There is no muscle Ronnie has developed more than Dorian....not even biceps, quads (look at the sartorius!)hams, glutes, chest or delts.........and recycling words like "density" from quotes in the mid-90s actually overrides all visual evidence, apart from grainy black and white pics of course, rendering it "no comparison".
The old I can't back up any of my claims so I'll just post a sarcastic retort to try and distract you from the fact , I'll ask again WHAT muscle in the hams strings does Ronnie have developed , separated and detailed that Dorian does not? answer the question don't try and post your way out of it. same with glutes Ronnie's are striated , Dorian's are striated yet Ronnie's are somehow better ? elaborate on this how?
Ronnie "doesn't compare" to Dorian, bwahaha, the king of superfluous hyperbole strikes again.
no superfluous hyperbole , just facts Ronnie 2003 does NOT compared to Dorian in terms of density & dryness in 2003 it's not open for discussion or debate , if you think otherwise back up your claim , and speaking of ' superfluous hyperbole ' Ronnie has no missing bodyparts ' ;D and Ronnie has ' better hams and glutes just trust me on that one ' ::)
I hate lowering myself to this name calling rubbish at the expense of rational debate. I respect your intelligence but sometimes you are a complete joke.
ironic I feel the same about you especially after claiming he had no missing bodyparts lol but I don't respect your intelligence because on this topic like Neo and Hulkster you've shown none
= Sad desperate projection of a phantasy stage showing. Torn biceps, sorry "one biceps shorter than the other", only 1 witness whose statement you hang everything on, and 1 studio b/w pic. I really can't believe you made such a meal of the 99 darkened pics when your whole dream is based on a single b/w studio pic which only recently emerged, completely mental. At least Ronnie was on a stage. You don't even feel the need to see any back shots of Dorian from the 95 shoot, yet profess total knowledge of the judging criteria.
Well this I admittedly am going based only on Kevin Horton's words on the subject and that pic looks outstanding BTW , Kevin Horton already said he has NO stake in this argument and he never picked a side , so I will take his word until it's proven wrong otherwise
Just because he's not onstage doesn't mean anything , and FYI he was onstage that year albeit lighter and still set everyone on stage on their ass
I feel I've more than shown myself to be your match when it comes to level-headed analysis but you too often exaggerate things. In 98 aparently all the Kevins and Shawn Rays and Nassers and Flexes ceased to be a decent standard of competition, the glory days ended for you, it became easy to win the Olympia, you didn't even need balance and proportion or condition, none of the same things Dorian needed in his era - which according to you is actually Ronnie's era too ??? Mental.
my match? ??? are you kidding me? you don't even know how contests are judged how can you be my ' match ' ? that statement is ridiculous to the point of being offensive ;D you would have to know how contests are judged , set aside your personal preference ( Dorian isn't even my favorite bodybuilder ) and be objective , you've shown you can't do that by claiming absurd things like he has no missing parts lol you're biased , ignorant and make overstatements , out of the two of use I'm sure as hell all of the above compared to you , Neo , and Hulkster
98 Ronnie faced some pretty stiff competition but this proves my point at what Ronnie considers his best Olympia showing ever 1998 he only beat Flex by 3 points one of the closest Mr Olympia contests to this day !! if Ronnie was never in the 1998 Mr Olympia and Dorian 1993 was he would have murdered that whole line-up with ease there would be no close contest or any contest
Flex , Kevin , Shawn , Nasser all hit their prime showings in Dorian's hey-day . Kevin 1992/1995 Shawn 1994/1996 Nasser 1995/1996 Flex 1993 , look at 2002 Kevin looked like shit compared to 1995 and still took it to Ronnie ( he won both the posing rounds ) 1995 Kevin would have beat Ronnie 2002
Ronnie's 'era ' began only when Dorian walked away if he didn't have injuries Ronnie wouldn't have an era ;)
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isn't that how you talk with your customers at your flower shop?
;)
in before ND claims he's not a judge so the quote doesn't matter
why are you scared of 03 Ronnie? If he's so "off" as you put it, then you should have no problem since this makes it easier for you to argue why Dorian is better. Instead, you adamantly contend that 03 was not his prime and even try to counter by picking a larger version of Dorian (i.e. 95 pre-contest)
isn't that how you talk with your customers at your flower shop?
Awwww someone is getting frustrated and grasping at straws ;D keep reaching for the stars sport
in before ND claims he's not a judge so the quote doesn't matter
before Neo says ' he's not fit to judge ' and he forgot one who is fit to judge Dorian said already he's better conditioned ;)
why are you scared of 03 Ronnie? If he's so "off" as you put it, then you should have no problem since this makes it easier for you to argue why Dorian is better. Instead, you adamantly contend that 03 was not his prime and even try to counter by picking a larger version of Dorian (i.e. 95 pre-contest)
I'm scared? of Ronnie at one of his worse showings where his balance & proportion are in the red and his density & dryness are clearly eons off of Dorians? I Think NOT ;)
the larger version of Dorian negates ANY assumed advantage he has every base covered not just posing and balance and conditioning ;)
everyone knows 2003 isn't his best just dumb noobs who didn't get the memo and didn't like the messenger after he gave it to them
the debate is AT THEIR BEST and 2003 is NOT his best
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Sorry, game's over for you. Too many contradictions.
It was game over a LONG time ago kid ;)
Special Ed : Ronnie of Dorian competed in 1998 would you have smoked him?
Ronnie Coleman : NO I think he would have kept on winning as long as he competed I don't think he would have lost.
Jim: What would have happened last year if Dorian Yates (recently retired winner of 6 straight Mr. Olympias) had competed?
Ronnie: Dorian would have won again.
Jim: You think so?
Ronnie: I know so. Dorian has a big physique - hard- and he's been the man to beat, and its hard to knock the champion off the block. He's a big guy and has a lot going for him. He overcame so many adversities, like his torn biceps, I couldnt see too much else stopping him.
thanks for playing though
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No the size advantage wouldn't be an illusion but it's not the advantage you wish it would be , especially considering it's not dense muscle
Ronnie 2003 was off in terms of density & dryness compared to 1998/2001 and Dorian absolutely no , if ands or buts about it
The old I can't back up any of my claims so I'll just post a sarcastic retort to try and distract you from the fact , I'll ask again WHAT muscle in the hams strings does Ronnie have developed , separated and detailed that Dorian does not? answer the question don't try and post your way out of it. same with glutes Ronnie's are striated , Dorian's are striated yet Ronnie's are somehow better ? elaborate on this how?
no superfluous hyperbole , just facts Ronnie 2003 does NOT compared to Dorian in terms of density & dryness in 2003 it's not open for discussion or debate , if you think otherwise back up your claim , and speaking of ' superfluous hyperbole ' Ronnie has no missing bodyparts ' ;D and Ronnie has ' better hams and glutes just trust me on that one ' ::)
ironic I feel the same about you especially after claiming he had no missing bodyparts lol but I don't respect your intelligence because on this topic like Neo and Hulkster you've shown none
Well this I admittedly am going based only on Kevin Horton's words on the subject and that pic looks outstanding BTW , Kevin Horton already said he has NO stake in this argument and he never picked a side , so I will take his word until it's proven wrong otherwise
Just because he's not onstage doesn't mean anything , and FYI he was onstage that year albeit lighter and still set everyone on stage on their ass
my match? ??? are you kidding me? you don't even know how contests are judged how can you be my ' match ' ? that statement is ridiculous to the point of being offensive ;D you would have to know how contests are judged , set aside your personal preference ( Dorian isn't even my favorite bodybuilder ) and be objective , you've shown you can't do that by claiming absurd things like he has no missing parts lol you're biased , ignorant and make overstatements , out of the two of use I'm sure as hell all of the above compared to you , Neo , and Hulkster
98 Ronnie faced some pretty stiff competition but this proves my point at what Ronnie considers his best Olympia showing ever 1998 he only beat Flex by 3 points one of the closest Mr Olympia contests to this day !! if Ronnie was never in the 1998 Mr Olympia and Dorian 1993 was he would have murdered that whole line-up with ease there would be no close contest or any contest
Flex , Kevin , Shawn , Nasser all hit their prime showings in Dorian's hey-day . Kevin 1992/1995 Shawn 1994/1996 Nasser 1995/1996 Flex 1993 , look at 2002 Kevin looked like shit compared to 1995 and still took it to Ronnie ( he won both the posing rounds ) 1995 Kevin would have beat Ronnie 2002
Ronnie's 'era ' began only when Dorian walked away if he didn't have injuries Ronnie wouldn't have an era ;)
You didn't even say which bodyparts you think Ronnie is missing ::) Cos in 2003 he certainly isn't missing calves and his triceps were huuge and cut. Just watch the 2003 prejudging, I don't believe you can even bring yourself to watch it.
You say Ronnie's era began when Dorian walked away, this after several posts claiming their eras are one and the same ::) Absolute clownery.
You know it, I know it.
You are old, this makes you think you know everything about judging, and that you can disagree with all the judges who think Ronnie 2003 was 'on' enough to destroy everyone. Maybe he wasn't facing 93 Flex Wheeler or anything, who you seem to think would give 2003 Ronnie such a tough time, but I certainly do consider it hyperbole to say outright that he was 'off'. Likewise saying it would be "no close contest or any contest" is indicative of the closed door that is your mind.
I attempt to concede things like maybe the Dorian 93 2 weeks before physique would be the best ever, but you haven't even the class to budge an inch and say that Dorian never brought a package to the stage that could compete with Ronnie's best, although you unwittingly concede this with your every post focusing on b/w photoshoots! I am more based in truth, construct better, more fact-based sentences (i know you think saying "balance and proportion" lots means Dorian is proportionally flawless) with fewer errors, and I don't base my entire case on one man's words. Of course I can't disprove Kevin Horton as noone else was there. It's undisprovable like Freud's psycho-analytical theories, Weapons of Mass destruction and many other historically retarded arguments. But this is not the same as it being true. My argument is based on a tangible reality. You will dispute this and ridicule me as you laugh the laugh of an aging man detaching from reality. I look forward to more speculation/Kevin Horton-based arguing and patronising excerpts from the judging criteria which you think automatically benefit Dorian.
Ronnie isn't necessarily my favourite bodybuilder, but at his best he was better on a stage than Dorian was at his best. On a stage.
The comparison below favours Dorian because Ronnie is actually taller than Dorian by a good inch. But it still shows what I believe to be better hams and glutes. Yes Dorians are good but not as ripped. Also interesting to note so many of the iron-age board comparisons feel the need to shrink Ronnie down to a size where he's less threatening. Note the perceptible similarities in calf size. Ronnie's forarms, and all that tripe you always try, look absolutely fine and in proportion. Even his waist is slimmer. Dorian wins other aspects of the comparison like dryness noticeably, but it's a scaled down pic of Ronnie so his size advantage doesn't properly show. Better shape and lines also, and this isn't even Ronnie's strongest pose against Dorian, that would be back double bi, front double bi, side chest and most muscular. Dorian probably winning ab and thigh and side triceps. The one below would be close, but Dorian could win it and still lose. Anyway, enjoy.
(http://i33.tinypic.com/335f477.jpg)
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You didn't even say which bodyparts you think Ronnie is missing ::) Cos in 2003 he certainly isn't missing calves and his triceps were huuge and cut. Just watch the 2003 prejudging, I don't believe you can even bring yourself to watch it.
You say Ronnie's era began when Dorian walked away, this after several posts claiming their eras are one and the same ::) Absolute clownery.
You know it, I know it.
You are old, this makes you think you know everything about judging, and that you can disagree with all the judges who think Ronnie 2003 was 'on' enough to destroy everyone. Maybe he wasn't facing 93 Flex Wheeler or anything, who you seem to think would give 2003 Ronnie such a tough time, but I certainly do consider it hyperbole to say outright that he was 'off'. Likewise saying it would be "no close contest or any contest" is indicative of the closed door that is your mind.
I attempt to concede things like maybe the Dorian 93 2 weeks before physique would be the best ever, but you haven't even the class to budge an inch and say that Dorian never brought a package that could compete with Ronnie's best, although you unwittingly concede this with your every post focusing on b/w photoshoots! I am more based in truth, construct better, more fact-based sentences (i know you think saying "balance and proportion" lots means Dorian is proportionally flawless) with fewer errors, and I don't base my entire case on one man's words. Of course I can't disprove Kevin Horton as noone else was there. It's undisprovable like Freud's psycho-analytical theories, Weapons of Mass destruction and many other historically retarded arguments. But this is not the same as it being true. My argument is based on a tangible reality. You will dispute this and ridicule me as you laugh the laugh of an aging man detaching from reality. I look forward to more speculation/Kevin Horton-based arguing and patronising excerpts from the judging criteria which you think automatically benefit Dorian.
Ronnie isn't necessarily my favourite bodybuilder, but at his best he was better on a stage than Dorian was at his best. On a stage.
You didn't even say which bodyparts you think Ronnie is missing ::) Cos in 2003 he certainly isn't missing calves and his triceps were huuge and cut. Just watch the 2003 prejudging, I don't believe you can even bring yourself to watch it.
his calves weren't missing in 2003 , I stop here... taken you seriously after this is impossible
You say Ronnie's era began when Dorian walked away, this after several posts claiming their eras are one and the same ::) Absolute clownery.
You know it, I know it.
Again it's not like Ronnie didn't compete in Dorian's era it's not like they never faced each other grasp the difference?
You are old, this makes you think you know everything about judging, and that you can disagree with all the judges who think Ronnie 2003 was 'on' enough to destroy everyone. Maybe he wasn't facing 93 Flex Wheeler or anything, who you seem to think would give 2003 Ronnie such a tough time, but I certainly do consider it hyperbole to say outright that he was 'off'. Likewise saying it would be "no close contest or any contest" is indicative of the closed door that is your mind.
I don't disagree with Ronnie's win in 2003 , I certainly think he was good enough to beat who he competed with a this contest. Ronnie was OFF compared to his best , this is obvious and in terms of conditioning he doesn't compared to Dorian in 2003 NOT what so ever think of it as you'd like it doesn't change the fact just like he wasn't missing any calves in 03 , you think of things that contradict reality constantly
I attempt to concede things like maybe the Dorian 93 2 weeks before physique would be the best ever, but you haven't even the class to budge an inch and say that Dorian never brought a package that could compete with Ronnie's best, although you unwittingly concede this with your every post focusing on b/w photoshoots! I am more based in truth, construct better, more fact-based sentences (i know you think saying "balance and proportion" lots means Dorian is proportionally flawless) with fewer errors, and I don't base my entire case on one man's words. Of course I can't disprove Kevin Horton as noone else was there. It's undisprovable like Freud's psycho-analytical theories, Weapons of Mass destruction and many other historically retarded arguments. But this is not the same as it being true. My argument is based on a tangible reality. You will dispute this and ridicule me as you laugh the laugh of an aging man detaching from reality. I look forward to more speculation/Kevin Horton-based arguing and patronising excerpts from the judging criteria which you think automatically benefit Dorian.
you're not based in truth when you type he's not missing any bodyparts you're just not. you construct better , more fact based sentences? lmao you base things on tangible reality? and then type he's NOT missing any bodyparts? and you don't think Dorian is better conditioned than Ronnie 2003 ? surely now you're just being contrary and not serious? whenever I think you can't type anything more absurd you prove me wrong ;D nothing you say is reality based your comments are off the wall , you can't even get the basics right , you cherry pick what little of the IFBB judging criteria you know of , ignore the rest and type contradictory things , you are way off the mark and you don't get an A for effort
Ronnie isn't necessarily my favourite bodybuilder, but at his best he was better on a stage than Dorian was at his best. On a stage.
sure Ronnie isn't your favorite ::) and what was that again about superfluous hyperbole? but at his best he was better on a stage than Dorian was at his best. On a stage. oh that's right and Ronnie doesn't agree with you BTW
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Almost all of your response hinges on you thinking I'm stupid for saying Ronnie had calves in 2003. If you look at the pic above and genuinely see no calves then I guess that's where this ends.
I'm not sure you know what hyperbole is, but saying in a considered fashion that one person would achieve a possibly narrow but none-the-less worthy and valid victory over another is not it. Name a stage Dorian you think would win and you would better counter my argument.
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The comparison below favours Dorian because Ronnie is actually taller than Dorian by a good inch. But it still shows what I believe to be better hams and glutes. Yes Dorians are good but not as ripped. Also interesting to note so many of the iron-age board comparisons feel the need to shrink Ronnie down to a size where he's less threatening. Note the perceptible similarities in calf size. Ronnie's forarms, and all that tripe you always try, look absolutely fine and in proportion. Even his waist is slimmer. Dorian wins other aspects of the comparison like dryness noticeably, but it's a scaled down pic of Ronnie so his size advantage doesn't properly show. Better shape and lines also, and this isn't even Ronnie's strongest pose against Dorian, that would be back double bi, front double bi, side chest and most muscular. Dorian probably winning ab and thigh and side triceps. The one below would be close, but Dorian could win it and still lose. Anyway, enjoy.
(http://i33.tinypic.com/335f477.jpg)
It favors Dorian? more delusion on your behalf NO it doesn't favor Dorian and why? because Dorian NO year will have a smaller waist & hips compared to Ronnie , nor will have smaller joints and smaller calves , and yet in this laughable comparison that you ignorantly claim it somehow favor's Dorian , he does THIS IS NOT REALITY this is fantasy put together by a Coleman fanboy who thinks this is what it would actually be
it's only in these fantasy comparisons that Ronnie wins and even in this laughable ' scaled down ' version the difference in conditioning is black & white , please go back to the drawing board because this is laughable
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You will dispute this and ridicule me as you laugh the laugh of an aging man detaching from reality
I love metaphors ;D
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Again if you think Dorian has better glutes and hams there then there is no hope. That's all that pic was supposed to prove initially after you asked me to back it up. If you genuinely believe shrinking Ronnie doesn't favour Dorian then good for you.
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I'm waiting for you to concede Ronnie has calves in that pic.
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Almost all of your response hinges on you thinking I'm stupid for saying Ronnie had calves in 2003. If you look at the pic above and genuinely see no calves then I guess that's where this ends.
I'm not sure you know what hyperbole is, but saying in a considered fashion that one person would achieve a possibly narrow but none-the-less worthy and valid victory over another is not it. Name a stage Dorian you think would win and you would better counter my argument.
Almost all of your response hinges on you thinking I'm stupid for saying Ronnie had calves in 2003. If you look at the pic above and genuinely see no calves then I guess that's where this ends.
No not almost all my responses hinge on me thinking you're stupid for just his missing calves it's much , much more than that , like Ronnie's glutes are half the size of Dorian's body ( lmao as if that's an advantage ) or somehow I'm out of line for claiming Dorian is much better conditioned than Ronnie 2003 , or this one Ronnie makes Yates look ' Labraesque ' heheheheheh much more than the calves comment and it ended a LONG time ago my friend if you don't wanna further embarrass yourself than stop posting but after a lot of your responses I didn't think that mattered anymore ;D
His calves somehow in 2003 lowered , became classic diamond shaped and exhibited great development & separation of the gastrocnemis inner & outer heads and somehow came into proportion with his quads , and in that fantasy comparison you actually had the balls to type perceptible similarities in calf size based on a comparison SOMEONE MADE lmfao
keep posting.... I'll keep correcting and pointing how way off you are ;D
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Again if you think Dorian has better glutes and hams there then there is no hope. That's all that pic was supposed to prove initially after you asked me to back it up. If you genuinely believe shrinking Ronnie doesn't favour Dorian then good for you.
oh boy you can't even keep track of the conversation , I never once claimed Dorian had better glutes and hams in fact I asked you to elaborate on what you THINK makes them better , both have striations and both have awesome hams , you never elaborated on what makes Ronnie's supposedly better , still waiting
if you think that comparison is accurate than shame on you :-X
I'm waiting for you to concede Ronnie has calves in that pic.
You're delusional and or high if you think Ronnie has calves ANY year period.
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You say no calves in that pic, I say goodbye.
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What muscle in the hams strings does Ronnie have developed , detailed and separated that Dorian does not? show me , you're like Hulkster repeating this nonsense without ever taking a look and comparing them , Ronnie doesn't showing anything in hams that Dorian doesn't
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You say no calves in that pic, I say goodbye.
Oh I found those calves ;D
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No not almost all my responses hinge on me thinking you're stupid for just his missing calves it's much , much more than that , like Ronnie's glutes are half the size of Dorian's body ( lmao as if that's an advantage ) or somehow I'm out of line for claiming Dorian is much better conditioned than Ronnie 2003 , or this one Ronnie makes Yates look ' Labraesque ' heheheheheh much more than the calves comment and it ended a LONG time ago my friend if you don't wanna further embarrass yourself than stop posting but after a lot of your responses I didn't think that mattered anymore ;D
His calves somehow in 2003 lowered , became classic diamond shaped and exhibited great development & separation of the gastrocnemis inner & outer heads and somehow came into proportion with his quads , and in that fantasy comparison you actually had the balls to type perceptible similarities in calf size based on a comparison SOMEONE MADE lmfao
keep posting.... I'll keep correcting and pointing how way off you are ;D
ND patting himself on the back for the millionth time like he's actually "winning" something here......Everyone laughs at you
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ND patting himself on the back for the millionth time like he's actually "winning" something here......Everyone laughs at you
I thought you were sick of this? back to bitch and moan some more?
oh noes everyone is laughing at me ::) is this the part where I'm supposed to care? my GetBig ' credibility ' shot someone named " Groink " is laughing at me lmao go try and impress more people with pics of your wife's breasts lmfao Alpha-Don ;D
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I thought you were sick of this? back to bitch and moan some more?
oh noes everyone is laughing at me ::) is this the part where I'm supposed to care? my GetBig ' credibility ' shot someone named " Groink " is laughing at me lmao go try and impress more people with pics of your wife's breasts lmfao Alpha-Don ;D
I'm sure that goes over better than your thousand word "I love Dorian Yates" essays ;)
I'm not bitching.....I'm ridiculing you
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I'm sure that goes over better than your thousand word "I love Dorian Yates" essays ;)
I'm not bitching.....I'm ridiculing you
they are not essays, they are facts backed by his and the always truthfull judges opinnions, who's mean more than ours do
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I'm sure that goes over better than your thousand word "I love Dorian Yates" essays ;)
I'm not bitching.....I'm ridiculing you
You're bitching and again is this the part I'm supposed to care Mr Alpha-Don? lmao
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they are not essays, they are facts backed by his and the always truthfull judges opinnions, who's mean more than ours do
hey old dogs can learn new tricks , good boy. if you pull your head out of Groink's ass I'll give you a treat. :D
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hey old dogs can learn new tricks , good boy. if you pull your head out of Groink's ass I'll give you a treat. :D
just give it up dude.
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just give it up dude.
Oh don't worry I gave up on it when Ronnie admitted for the second time he couldn't beat Dorian , now I just pick apart the ' arguments ' these guys try and formulate that's the fun part
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hey old dogs can learn new tricks , good boy. if you pull your head out of Groink's ass I'll give you a treat. :D
You gonna drink his "milkshake"......you homosexual? :D
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You gonna drink his "milkshake"......you homosexual? :D
Oh noes I've been called Gay on an internet message board , the originality is a breathe of fresh air around here , whens the mom jokes? ???
keep trying Alpha Don Groink it's all you can do.
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Oh noes I've been called Gay on an internet message board , the originality is a breathe of fresh air around here , whens the mom jokes? ???
keep trying Alpha Don Groink it's all you can do.
You said it, don't get all mad at me.
Thanks for the compliments BTW ...I am a true Alpha and my girl is smoking hot...glad you noticed 8)
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Oh noes I've been called Gay on an internet message board , the originality is a breathe of fresh air around here , whens the mom jokes? ???
keep trying Alpha Don Groink it's all you can do.
ND, the concensus around here is that you are ' a gay troll who obsesses of over roied pros striated glutes.'
ND, you are one creepy dude.
Having a homo erotic fascination with the sport is not only sick but the way in which you continually attempt to rationalise this behaviour makes it pathological....ND, you are dirty gay troll....move on you filth bag!
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You said it, don't get all mad at me.
Thanks for the compliments BTW ...I am a true Alpha and my girl is smoking hot...glad you noticed 8)
I said it it wasn't gay , if you want it to be that's on you :-X
an Alpha male doesn't try and convince others he is ;) and still trying to impress people huh? another thing an Alpha male wouldn't do , keep trying maybe you'll find someone whose impressed with you , good luck on that. :D
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I said it it wasn't gay , if you want it to be that's on you :-X
an Alpha male doesn't try and convince others he is ;) and still trying to impress people huh? another thing an Alpha male wouldn't do , keep trying maybe you'll find someone whose impressed with you , good luck on that. :D
We all know what you said....you fucked up, don't have a cow over it.
At least I brag on myself....I don't spend my days worshipping some drugged out Bber who flexed his big muscles13 years ago ;)
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We all know what you said....you fucked up, don't have a cow over it.
At least I brag on myself....I don't spend my days worshipping some drugged out Bber who flexed his big muscles13 years ago ;)
We all know what you said....you fucked up, don't have a cow over it.
You're the one that wants it to be gay , what's on your mind sport? never mind don't answer that :-X
At least I brag on myself....I don't spend my days worshipping some drugged out Bber who flexed his big muscles13 years ago ;)
You're the only one who is going to brag on you ;D you're the one trying to convince other members you're something you're not started threads that backfire in your face in a pathetic attempt at impressing people , like they say sport you have to convince yourself before you can convince anyone else and again good luck with that
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Ronnie destroys dorian
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You're the one that wants it to be gay , what's on your mind sport? never mind don't answer that :-X
You're the only one who is going to brag on you ;D you're the one trying to convince other members you're something you're not started threads that backfire in your face in a pathetic attempt at impressing people , like they say sport you have to convince yourself before you can convince anyone else and again good luck with that.
Something I'm not??
I have posted pictures of myself and my girl....nothing made up about it......but nice envy meltdown regardless....."sport " ::)
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Something I'm not??
I have posted pictures of myself and my girl....nothing made up about it......but nice envy meltdown regardless....."sport " ::)
Look man, love is blind
As heterosexual males, I'm sure we've both experienced times when love for a certain woman allowed us to overlook small physical imperfections
for instance, I don't mind that my woman has tiny arms and no muscular separation :D
If this ND character feels the same way about dorian yates, theres no way youre ever going to convince him that yates wasnt the best bodybuilder of all time, that its bizarre to spend years upon years posting dissertations on the same circular argument, or that we're superior to him because we fuck good-looking women instead of masturbating to retired bodybuilders
dont waste your time
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I see in the week that I have been gone, ND has been getting just as owned as he was before I left.
this is good stuff.
to see his 50000 word posts full of the usual bullshit that is in direct contradiction with the visuals is so typical of ND. classic stuff.
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Look man, love is blind
As heterosexual males, I'm sure we've both experienced times when love for a certain woman allowed us to overlook small physical imperfections
for instance, I don't mind that my woman has tiny arms and no muscular separation :D
If this ND character feels the same way about dorian yates, theres no way youre ever going to convince him that yates wasnt the best bodybuilder of all time, that its bizarre to spend years upon years posting dissertations on the same circular argument, or that we're superior to him because we fuck good-looking women instead of masturbating to retired bodybuilders
dont waste your time
Agreed 100% dude .....I could care less who was "drier" in 1995 and I dont write 1000 page rants trying to convince people that my oiled muscleman is better than their oiled muscleman.
I just enjoy pointing out what an obsessed schmoe ND is....he's. Taken it to another level ;D
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Something I'm not??
I have posted pictures of myself and my girl....nothing made up about it......but nice envy meltdown regardless....."sport " ::)
hahahahahaha ' envy ' what's funny is you post on bitching about me ' patting myself on the back ' yet you created a whole thread you doing so hypocrite which brings me back to my original point you're just a bitch
like I said keep trying to impress people maybe some of these kids will be but you don't impress me sport , I'm still trying to figure out who has bigger boobs you or your girl :)
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Agreed 100% dude .....I could care less who was "drier" in 1995 and I dont write 1000 page rants trying to convince people that my oiled muscleman is better than their oiled muscleman.
I just enjoy pointing out what an obsessed schmoe ND is....he's. Taken it to another level ;D
oh another ' alpha don ' on a bodybuilding message board complaining about ' oiled up musclemen ' hahahahahah you're the same hypocrite who was just trying to convince me Ronnie was better but somehow you're above commenting on ' oiled up musclemen ' I think you posted pics of your ' girl ' to try and convince people you're straight , you often accuse people of being ' gay ' seems like you have some issues you need to work out good luck with that
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It appears I have touched a nerve with this twink :)
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It appears I have touched a nerve with this twink :)
Just the opposite.....I've apparently pissed you off , now you're compelled to chase me around bitching about things you're doing
keep proving me right sport ;)
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Just the opposite.....I've apparently pissed you off , now you're compelled to chase me around bitching about things you're doing
keep proving me right sport ;)
Right ::)
"no I'm not......you are"
I fell like I'm back in the third grade "debating" with you
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Right ::)
"no I'm not......you are"
I fell like I'm back in the third grade "debating" with you
almost as bad as calling someone ' gay ' huh?
again I pissed you off to the point you felt compelled to comment on more than just the topic at hand , you're a hypocrite and a bitch and that's a bad combo
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almost as bad as calling someone ' gay ' huh?
again I pissed you off to the point you felt compelled to comment on more than just the topic at hand , you're a hypocrite and a bitch and that's a bad combo
You calling someone a hypoccrite is like Jeffrey Dahmer calling somone a pervert.
Stick to discussing Dorian's glute dryness, because you are failing miserably at trying to "put me in my place"....your posts are weak and boring
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You calling someone a hypoccrite is like Jeffrey Dahmer calling somone a pervert.
Stick to discussing Dorian's glute dryness, because you are failing miserably at trying to "put me in my place"....your posts are weak and boring
You are a hypocrite you're bitching about me supposedly patting myself on the back , yet start a thread patting yourself on the back , the difference between you and I is , I'm not bitching about it just pointing it out ;)
I struck a nerve with you because you're only bitching at me for what ten other guys are doing in this thread , again I'm not bitching about just pointing out another example of your being a hypocrite
my posts are weak & boring yet here you are once again , after just complaining about ' going at it for a week ' and yet frustrated by the ' debate ' you've given up and now are reduced to petty name calling
respond or don't respond , I don't care I'll keep posting and pissing fanboys off
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what happened to the Yates vs. coleman part of all of this ;D
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what happened to the Yates vs. coleman part of all of this
it was settled 2 pages back that Ronnie wins
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what happened to the Yates vs. coleman part of all of this ;D
The fan boys got stopped dead in their tracks and then start with the personal attacks , it' happens all the time ;D
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The fan boys got stopped dead in their tracks and then start with the personal attacks , it' happens all the time ;D
Says the Guy who's been attacking me....LOLOLOL
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it was settled 2 pages back that Ronnie wins
Ronnie ended it a LONG time ago after the second time he conceded he wasn't good enough to beat Dorian ;)
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Says the Guy who's been attacking me....LOLOLOL
Attacking? Oh you mean when I asked who had bigger boobs you or your girl? you never did answer that and in all honesty that was after you started.
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ronnie was bigger and had more detail, he was also more aesthetic as long as he was sucking in his abdomen... dorian was harder, dryer, "grainyer", almost as big, and didnt let his abdomen protrude on stage as much or as often as coleman did. dorian was a more disciplined bodybuilder, ronnie was more gifted.
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Ronnie ended it a LONG time ago after the second time he conceded he wasn't good enough to beat Dorian
<sigh>
Ronnie isn't a judge. Dorian is. And he admitted Ronnie would most likely beat him ;)
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<sigh>
Ronnie isn't a judge. Dorian is. And he admitted Ronnie would most likely beat him ;)
what dorian said is just opinnion, what ronnie said is fact
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<sigh>
Ronnie isn't a judge. Dorian is. And he admitted Ronnie would most likely beat him ;)
Dorian said I don't know. ;)
thanks for playing , it's been real and it's been fun but it hasn't been real fun ;D
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what dorian said is just opinnion, what ronnie said is fact
I never once claimed when Ronnie said it , it was a fact. get the story straight.
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I never once claimed when Ronnie said it , it was a fact. get the story straight.
anything you say is backed by facts, everything we say is just 'opinnions' just look at your 8 paragraph essays
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anything you say is backed by facts, everything we say is just 'opinnions' just look at your 8 paragraph essays
great job speaking for me , care to make up some more shit while you're at it?
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Less bickering, more glute shots, please!
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Bump for Dorians ownage.
Threads on the main page are failing. Time for the never fail strategy of a Ronnie VS Dorian debate.
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Dorian plays the humble card when asked if he would be a prime Ronnie, but you know he's thinking about all those times he beat Coleman and feels a dominance over him.
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I agree, I dont think you can really go by what either Ronnie or Dorian says, both of them are being humble.
That is however, unless it suits my argument. So when Ronnie says he thinks Dorian would win, I agree. ;D
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Dorian Yates interview bodybuilding.com 2008
Everyone who sees my physique in person always comments on how much better I look in person than in pictures. That's because my physique is thick and developed from all angles. From the front, from the back, from the side, standing on my head: it doesn't matter. Everywhere is fully developed from every angle. And this might not show in one-dimensional photos. When you turn somebody to the side and they are twice as thick as everyone else, then that shows up.
Peter McGough on Dorian Yates
On the subject of conditioning, no-one did it better than Dorian. He achieved a hardness and dryness (without losing fullness) that nobody has ever matched. In the flesh he looked even harder than he did in photos. It was like a statue made of granite was standing in front of you.
Flex magazine Jan 1992 on Dorian Yates
" Dorian has the type of physique that looks much better and more powerfull in person than photos. I personally saw him onstage , and Yates if definitely light years ahead of the way he looks in photos.
MuscleMag International Feb 1994 on Dorian Yates at the 1993 Mr Olympia
" He's huge , absolutely HUGE ...he's ripped completely RIPPED. And while he's not in possession of the prettiest physique body by a long shot , he's equipped with all the bodyparts you need to win .
Combine this with the fact that he's 10 TIMES more impressive when you see him onstage at the Olympia than he is in pictures or on videos and you got yourself a winner.
This is a quote from John Hotten book " Muscle "
" Chris Cormier standing next to Dorian onstage he sensed ' radiation coming off him , like an aura. ' The power of that muscle was tangible. It exerted a force all of its own. Cormier thought ' I might as well forget about this guy and concentrate on being second. ' There was something else , too , strange. You had to witness him in the flesh. such granite hradness had a property that could nor be held on film or caught on paper. You had to see it live.
Peter McGough Flex Magazine May 2002
Let it be said that the camera can lie at physique contests. Some guys look great onstage but not so great on final film (Dorian Yates, for one) and vice versa (Shawn Ray is an example)
do you think these guys are making this up? why does it bother you so much he might appear better live and in person as opposed to pictures and videos?
I once herd from someone who saw Dorian Yates compete in his EFBB that his muscle has layers of thickness like his back had layers of thickness... His legs and ham strings had such conditioning that No would could match the amount quality that he had brought to the stage!
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Not even his best, but literally no missing bodyparts.