Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Soul Crusher on September 19, 2010, 07:38:47 PM
-
THIS IS ANOTHER REASON i HATE THIS POFS WITH A PASSION.
________________________ _____________
Does President Obama Think Our Rights Come from Our Creator?
www.weeklystandard.com
Sep 19, 2010 · BY Jeffrey H. AndersonThe most famous words in the Declaration of Independence — and almost surely the most famous words ever written by an American — read, “We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.”
On Friday evening, when President Obama addressed the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute, he quoted that passage as follows (on the clip at 22:30): “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal [pause], endowed with certain unalienable rights: life and liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”
In Obama’s version, there is no “Creator.”
Only two plausible explanations spring to mind. One is that President Obama isn’t very familiar with the most famous passage in the document that founded this nation; that even when plainly reading from a teleprompter, he wasn’t able to quote it correctly. The other is that President Obama doesn’t subscribe to the Declaration’s rather central claim that our rights come from our “Creator” (also referred to in the Declaration as “Nature’s God” and “the Supreme Judge of the World”).
Only the president likely knows for certain which of these two explanations is true, or whether perhaps there is another. His nearly 4-second pause before he omits reference to our Creator, however, is peculiar. He stares at the teleprompter, purses his lips, blinks several times — as if confused, disturbed, and/or in the process of making a decision — and then proceeds to use his alternate wording.
-
religion has no place in govt.
-
religion has no place in govt.
Wrong.
-
religion has no place in govt.
HEY MORON - HAVE YOU EVER READ THE DECLARATION OF iNDEPENDENCE?
"WE ARE ENDOWED BY OUR CREATOR"
Not obama, not bush, the trees and rocks, not gays, not the sun, but the creator.
-
THIS IS ANOTHER REASON i HATE THIS POFS WITH A PASSION.
________________________ _____________
Does President Obama Think Our Rights Come from Our Creator?
www.weeklystandard.com
Sep 19, 2010 · BY Jeffrey H. AndersonThe most famous words in the Declaration of Independence — and almost surely the most famous words ever written by an American — read, “We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.”
On Friday evening, when President Obama addressed the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute, he quoted that passage as follows (on the clip at 22:30): “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal [pause], endowed with certain unalienable rights: life and liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”
In Obama’s version, there is no “Creator.”
Only two plausible explanations spring to mind. One is that President Obama isn’t very familiar with the most famous passage in the document that founded this nation; that even when plainly reading from a teleprompter, he wasn’t able to quote it correctly. The other is that President Obama doesn’t subscribe to the Declaration’s rather central claim that our rights come from our “Creator” (also referred to in the Declaration as “Nature’s God” and “the Supreme Judge of the World”).
Only the president likely knows for certain which of these two explanations is true, or whether perhaps there is another. His nearly 4-second pause before he omits reference to our Creator, however, is peculiar. He stares at the teleprompter, purses his lips, blinks several times — as if confused, disturbed, and/or in the process of making a decision — and then proceeds to use his alternate wording.
I can't tell whether he forgot or whether it was an intentional omission. Either way, it's embarrassing.
-
ehhhhh here we go again.
leaders should really just drop the religion talk. seriously. it's pandering to idiots, let's be honest. "oooh what did obama say - if he talked about the 'creator' and not 'the savior'... i'm so gonna have my feathers ruffled!"
STFU. I believe in a higher power and I believe all our leaders just use his name and likeness to gain power. it's that simple. To get the votes of people who vote with their bible, not their wallet.
-
Wrong.
BB,
How many years old is our Earth, approx?
You've said there's a lot of evidence it's only 5000 years old... and IMO you'd probably vote for a candidate who would start 2 wars and let a 911 happen because he liked the bible more than that other awful man running.
it's this simple ass thinking that annoys me. None of the people running for office know anything more about God than you or I. We're all completely clueless until we check out, then we all find out in a hurry.
But hey, go ride your dino around, gripping the holy book talking about who loves God more.
-
ehhhhh here we go again.
leaders should really just drop the religion talk. seriously. it's pandering to idiots, let's be honest. "oooh what did obama say - if he talked about the 'creator' and not 'the savior'... i'm so gonna have my feathers ruffled!"
STFU. I believe in a higher power and I believe all our leaders just use his name and likeness to gain power. it's that simple. To get the votes of people who vote with their bible, not their wallet.
240 - you really are devolving and sliding into the very worst of the far left.
The Declaration of Independence is clear, and its not up to you or obama to change it based on your fleeting and always changing thoughts.
What is wrong with you? Seriously?
-
BB,
How many years old is our Earth, approx?
You've said there's a lot of evidence it's only 5000 years old... and IMO you'd probably vote for a candidate who would start 2 wars and let a 911 happen because he liked the bible more than that other awful man running.
it's this simple ass thinking that annoys me. None of the people running for office know anything more about God than you or I. We're all completely clueless until we check out, then we all find out in a hurry.
But hey, go ride your dino around, gripping the holy book talking about who loves God more.
Hey Pinocchio, did you vote for George Bush Sr.?
-
its heating up in here.
-
Hey Pinocchio, did you vote for George Bush Sr.?
LOL! Wow. You're a 5000-dino-earth believer. Now I remember. You will now attack me to divert everyone's attention from the fact that you are - by your own admission - nuttier than any 911 or JFK skeptic.
You're batshit crazy. welcome to the club, brah.
-
The notion that we are endowed BY OUR CREATOR , with certain unlainable rihts is so beyond discussion, that I can't believe 240 is dispouting this. Dear God, WWWTTTFFF happened to him?
-
LOL! Wow. You're a 5000-dino-earth believer. Now I remember. You will now attack me to divert everyone's attention from the fact that you are - by your own admission - nuttier than any 911 or JFK skeptic.
You're batshit crazy. welcome to the club, brah.
The difference between me and you, Pinocchio, is I'll just quote you. :) Did you vote for George Bush Sr.?
-
author=333386 link=topic=348911.msg4903484#msg4903484 date=1284951193]
HEY MORON - HAVE YOU EVER READ THE DECLARATION OF iNDEPENDENCE?
The same can be asked of all of the former president of america as NONE OF THEM SEEMS TO KNOW OR FOLLOW THE CONSTITUTION...
"WE ARE ENDOWED BY OUR CREATOR"
Not obama, not bush, the trees and rocks, not gays, not the sun, but the creator.
And with all of your founding fathers being Luciferians, Satanist, Freemasons and a part of the Illuminati...exactly WHAT is it that they deem their CREATOR? Creator amongst them does not instantly denote GOD.... their god is of the UNDERWORLD.
-
BB,
How many years old is our Earth, approx?
You've said there's a lot of evidence it's only 5000 years old... and IMO you'd probably vote for a candidate who would start 2 wars and let a 911 happen because he liked the bible more than that other awful man running.
it's this simple ass thinking that annoys me. None of the people running for office know anything more about God than you or I. We're all completely clueless until we check out, then we all find out in a hurry.
But hey, go ride your dino around, gripping the holy book talking about who loves God more.
This guy does an excellent job of revealing the age of the earth
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1272542059740401469#
Also keep in mind the pyramids of Egypt are about 5000 years old meaning Moses and teh Exodus are about 5000 years old. Add the fact that Adam and Eve are 1000 years prior to Moses adn you get 6000 years add another 1000 years of rest that God took as he finished the earth and another 6000 years in creating the earth and the universe you have a grand total of 13000 years. A far cry from the Billions of years the so called scientist claim.
-
Also keep in mind the pyramids of Egypt are about 5000 years old meaning Moses and teh Exodus are about 5000 years old. Add the fact that Adam and Eve are 1000 years prior to Moses adn you get 6000 years add another 1000 years of rest that God took as he finished the earth and another 6000 years in creating the earth and the universe you have a grand total of 13000 years. A far cry from the Billions of years the so called scientist claim.
And the fossilized remains that are millions of years old?
I'm really not trying to insult religious beliefs, but do you find it somewhat difficult to reconcile an all-powerful being with needing a 1000 yr rest period?
-
And the fossilized remains that are millions of years old?
I'm really not trying to insult religious beliefs, but do you find it somewhat difficult to reconcile an all-powerful being with needing a 1000 yr rest period?
There are no fossilized remains that are millions of years old. Did you watch the video? Obviously not as it explained the fossilization and coalification process which is NOT thousands or millions of years in the process but a couple hundred years at best. You are trusting in a Carbon dating process which can not date anything longer than 10,000 years...so how the hell could these excessive time spans be determined? Add to the carbon dating process a factor of 10,000 in the error rate and you can quickly go from 10,000,000 to just 1000 years, which is right withing the time lines of the creation of earth.
-
And with all of your founding fathers being Luciferians, Satanist, Freemasons and a part of the Illuminati...exactly WHAT is it that they deem their CREATOR? Creator amongst them does not instantly denote GOD.... their god is of the UNDERWORLD.
I can give you quote after quote, passage after passage; inaugural addresses, farewell speeches, addresses to congress, addresses to the nation...literally thousands of them where the founders not only speak of God and the necessity of God but Jesus Christ as well...take your pick.
-
religion has no place in govt.
Our founding documents, especially this little nugget we're discussing here, are based off of John Locke's work. Taking that into consideration, as well as the true beliefs of the founders, added in with innumerable documents and letters we have written by the founders, the statement "religion has no place in government" makes 100% absolutely zero sense. If that is the case, you we need to scrap everything into the trashcan and start over.
-
BB,
How many years old is our Earth, approx?
You've said there's a lot of evidence it's only 5000 years old... and IMO you'd probably vote for a candidate who would start 2 wars and let a 911 happen because he liked the bible more than that other awful man running.
it's this simple ass thinking that annoys me. None of the people running for office know anything more about God than you or I. We're all completely clueless until we check out, then we all find out in a hurry.
But hey, go ride your dino around, gripping the holy book talking about who loves God more.
lolololololololol
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
holy shit this sums it up better than any post ive read on the entire political board
im in awe ;D ;D ;D
-
Are we now at the point where people want to make up shit thats written in the Delcaration of Indepependce?
Its bad euogh you people on the far left find all sorts of shit that doesnt exist in the constitution, but the Dec of Ind?
WTF is wrong with you people?
-
religion has no place in govt.
i've turned into a lib pussy in the last few years
-
religion has no place in govt.
Really? "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
So 120 is Front, where does it way that? Where is the imaginary separation of church and state?
Or will you just dodge me for the 20th time when presented with what the constitution actually says?
-
stella, go ahead and move this thread back to political before BB's head explodes. I'm really worried about the assclown and don't want him taking out half of political with him.
-
There are no fossilized remains that are millions of years old. Did you watch the video? Obviously not as it explained the fossilization and coalification process which is NOT thousands or millions of years in the process but a couple hundred years at best. You are trusting in a Carbon dating process which can not date anything longer than 10,000 years...so how the hell could these excessive time spans be determined? Add to the carbon dating process a factor of 10,000 in the error rate and you can quickly go from 10,000,000 to just 1000 years, which is right withing the time lines of the creation of earth.
LOL man i love it when ppl get their info from youtube...actually there are other elements that allow us to date back millions of years you are correct that carbon dating does have its limits but there are also other elements that have much much greater limits...
im religious but it is almost beyond speculation that evolution is a fact and that the earth is older than 6000 years...why are there no modern human remains older than 250,000 yrs or so?
if you study evolution it really does show a logical progression from species to species, if anyone disagrees please give reasons and proof as to why.
-
Apparently some things never change. :-\
-
stella, go ahead and move this thread back to political before BB's head explodes. I'm really worried about the assclown and don't want him taking out half of political with him.
Hahaha! This is the board Nazi's way of saying he made a mistake. :)
-
hurry stella, he's about to blow :o
-
Apparently some things never change. :-\
where you been home slice? how you doing?
-
Obama Again Omits ‘Creator’ When Speaking of ‘Inalienable Rights’
CNSnews ^ | September 27, 2010 | Terence P. Jeffrey
Just seven days after he sparked controversy by omitting the word “Creator” when he closely paraphrased the passage from the Declaration of Independence that says all men “are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights,” President Barack Obama again omitted the Creator when speaking about the “inalienable rights” that “everybody is endowed with.”
This time the president was speaking at a Sept. 22 fundraiser for the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC) and the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee (DSCC) at the Roosevelt Hotel in New York City, and his reference to “inalienable rights” was not as close a paraphrasing of the Declaration as it had been the week before.
"And what was sustaining us was that sense that, that North Star, that sense that, you know what, if we stay true to our values, if we believe that all people are created equal and everybody is endowed with certain inalienable rights and we’re going to make those words live, and we’re going to give everybody opportunity, everybody a ladder into the middle class, every child able to go as far as their dreams will take them--if we stay true to that, then we’re going to be able to maintain the energy and the focus, the fight, the gumption to get stuff done,”
Obama said at the DCCC/DSCC event, according to the transcript posted by the White House.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnsnews.com ...
-
Why is he afraid to use the word "Creator"?
-
Why is he afraid to use the word "Creator"?
Beach - you are not as anti-obama as I am. However - this fits perfectly with everything else. He is on record hating the const. etc.
-
Beach - you are not as anti-obama as I am. However - this fits perfectly with everything else. He is on record hating the const. etc.
I'm not really anti-Obama. I just think he sucks as a president and I hope he loses in 2012.
Not sure if he hates the Constitution, but this kind of tap dance gives ammunition to people who believe he hates the Constitution.
-
I'm not really anti-Obama. I just think he sucks as a president and I hope he loses in 2012.
Not sure if he hates the Constitution, but this kind of tap dance gives ammunition to people who believe he hates the Constitution.
beach are you kidding - have you not heard the clips where he says the cont. is fatally flawed along with the nation?
-
beach are you kidding - have you not heard the clips where he says the cont. is fatally flawed along with the nation?
Not sure? Can you post it?
-
Not sure? Can you post it?
I just bumped the thread.
-
Why is he afraid to use the word "Creator"?
All socialist/communist will not use the word creator God..... because it implies there is higher power than them.
-
All socialist/communist will not user use the word creator God..... because it implies there is higher power than them.
Exactly. Because if rights come from man, i.e. government, those rights can be changed and/or altered. If rights come from God they are set in stone.
-
Wow talk about much ado about nothing.
I'm all for hating on Obama right now but to get all upset over this is just dumb. So he left out creator who cares? Our rights haven't come from a creator and most of you don't believe it anyway. If you did you wouldn't support 'enemy combatants' and torture because hey we're all given those rights from our creator American born or not. Apparently some of you forget this rather quickly when discussing detention without trial.
-
Wow talk about much ado about nothing.
I'm all for hating on Obama right now but to get all upset over this is just dumb. So he left out creator who cares? Our rights haven't come from a creator and most of you don't believe it anyway. If you did you wouldn't support 'enemy combatants' and torture because hey we're all given those rights from our creator American born or not. Apparently some of you forget this rather quickly when discussing detention without trial.
Your statement is inaccurate, because the rights we have are conditional, regardless of where you believe they originated.
-
Your statement is inaccurate, because the rights we have are conditional, regardless of where you believe they originated.
Exactly. I have explained this so many times over the years I'm blue in the face.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
*We are granted the right to life on the basis that we exist
*Within that life we are granted the right to liberty, to live as we best see fit.
*Within that liberty we are granted the right to pursue happiness, meaning, own property, own what is ours, to hold and own what we have earned by our hand through liberty, through life.
*Within those 3 rights, if we do things that infringe on any one of those 3 rights of another individual, the condition of our 3 rights is then changed.
*If anything our government does infringes on any one of those 3 rights of the individual, "whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
-
Exactly. I have explained this so many times over the years I'm blue in the face.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
*We are granted the right to life on the basis that we exist
*Within that life we are granted the right to liberty, to live as we best see fit.
*Within that liberty we are granted the right to pursue happiness, meaning, own property, own what is ours, to hold and own what we have earned by our hand through liberty, through life.
*Within those 3 rights, if we do things that infringe on any one of those 3 rights of another individual, the condition of our 3 rights is then changed.
*If anything our government does infringes on any one of those 3 rights of the individual, "whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
Exactly. There is also the language in the 5th and 14th Amendments that we cannot be "deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law." Which means these rights can be deprived with due process of law.
-
Exactly. There is also the language in the 5th and 14th Amendments that we cannot be "deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law." Which means these rights can be deprived with due process of law.
I think it's important to remember that these rights are granted to citizens of the U.S., those who are not citizens but here legally and to humanity on the whole so as long as what they do is not an infringement upon the mentioned 3 rights of others. Enemy combatants, as someone else mentioned, do not fall within the parameter of having these rights.
-
Obama Strips the 'Creator' from Declaration of Independence -- Again
CNSNews ^
________________________ ________________________ __________________
Obama Strips the 'Creator' from Declaration of Independence -- Again Tuesday, October 19, 2010 By Penny Starr
(CNSNews.com) – For the second time in little over a month, President Barack Obama stripped the word "Creator" from the Declaration of Independence when giving a speech.
"As wonderful as this land is here in the United States, as much as we have been blessed by the bounty of this magnificent continent that stretches from the Atlantic to the Pacific, what makes this place special is not something physical. It has to do with this idea that was started by 13 colonies that decided to throw off the yoke of an empire and said, ‘We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that each of us are endowed with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,’” Obama said in Monday's speech. [Emphasis added.]
The Declaration of Independence actually says, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.” [Emphasis added.]
When asked why the president did not use the words "endowed by their Creator" in his Monday speech, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs told reporters on Tuesday, "I haven't seen the comments, Lester. But I can assure you the president believes in the Declaration of Independence.”
(Excerpt) Read more at cnsnews.com ...
-
We need a head shaking emoticon.
-
We need a head shaking emoticon.
Go read my thread about Obama turning down the CEO of IBM on cutting fraud. make sure your nothing throwable is near you.
-
Your statement is inaccurate, because the rights we have are conditional, regardless of where you believe they originated.
So according to you the courts can take away life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness with 'due process' where is the due process for 'enemy combatants'? Aren't they from the same creator who gave us these rights according to you? Or are you agreeing with me that these rights were bestowed by man upon man and have nothing to do with a creator bestowing them upon us?
-
So life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is 'conditional'? Conditional on what? Being born in America or conditional on an elected representative saying so?
YES!
If you are born in some other country that does not have our Dec. of indep., consti, etc, your rights are subject to mans laws, not the creator.
Wake up.
-
YES!
If you are born in some other country that does not have our Dec. of indep., consti, etc, your rights are subject to mans laws, not the creator.
Wake up.
Wow talk about God complex. No wonder we have such a horrible image around the world when citizens like you scream that life outside of America is worth less than life born inside because God chose our rights and chose to bestow them only on Americans.
-
Wow talk about God complex. No wonder we have such a horrible image around the world when citizens like you scream that life outside of America is worth less than life born inside because God chose our rights and chose to bestow them only on Americans.
Its beyond your comprehension KC - sorry - I like you more than most - bust this is over your head.
-
So according to you the courts can take away life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness with 'due process' where is the due process for 'enemy combatants'? Aren't they from the same creator who gave us these rights according to you? Or are you agreeing with me that these rights were bestowed by man upon man and have nothing to do with a creator bestowing them upon us?
Enemy combatants are not American citizens.
-
Enemy combatants are not American citizens.
So you're agreeing with me then? Because if those inalienable rights were from a creator wouldn't all men regardless of country or creed get to enjoy those? Like i said the rights of this countries citizens are bestowed on them by man. Proof is in what you just said. Unless you believe being born here makes you somehow closer or more divine in the creators eyes.
-
All men are created with the same set of rights granted to each man, regardless of the country you were born in, race, sex or position in life. It is up to the United States to protect those rights for its citizens, it is not up to the United States to protect those rights of citizens of foreign lands. The protection of those rights is empowered by the government at hand and the people under it...for example, the rights of Germans are the same as those in the U.S. but it is up to the Germans to protect those rights for their people, it is not up to the U.S.
Look at it like this; you are responsible for what happens in your house, you are not responsible for what happens in your neighbors house. Yes, you're neighbor should do the right thing but that is your neighbors call. If what your neighbor does infringes on you and your household, then yes, you are responsible to protect your household from that infringement by your neighbor. You are responsible for protecting your household, you are protecting the life, liberty and pursuit of happiness of your household, if your neighbor breaks into your house and threatens that, he has forfeited his rights and is now subject to your discretion.
-
So you're agreeing with me then? Because if those inalienable rights were from a creator wouldn't all men regardless of country or creed get to enjoy those? Like i said the rights of this countries citizens are bestowed on them by man. Proof is in what you just said. Unless you believe being born here makes you somehow closer or more divine in the creators eyes.
Nope. See Arnold's response.
-
What Creator established these rights? The part of all men are created equal is ironic for those bleating about the Creator in a biblical sense. Because we all know that book of fairy tales didn't establish women, black men and slaves with the same set of rights as other men.
-
What Creator established these rights? The part of all men are created equal is ironic for those bleating about the Creator in a biblical sense. Because we all know that book of fairy tales didn't establish women, black men and slaves with the same set of rights as other men.
You know what's so funny and frustrating about this topic is that it is perhaps one of the most basic concepts in the world but for some reason some people can't see it or they simply refuse too...I'm not sure which. I honestly believe you could explain all of this to a four year old child and they would get it and understand it a lot better than a lot of adults...of course "A Lot of Adults" is a very relative phrase because the truth of the matter is most people recognize these very, very simple truths...the "A Lot" that actually make up a very small portion of the population, yet they seem to strut around as if they are in a majority surrounded by a minority of Homer Simpson's...pretty strange.
-
You know what's so funny and frustrating about this topic is that it is perhaps one of the most basic concepts in the world but for some reason some people can't see it or they simply refuse too...I'm not sure which. I honestly believe you could explain all of this to a four year old child and they would get it and understand it a lot better than a lot of adults...of course "A Lot of Adults" is a very relative phrase because the truth of the matter is most people recognize these very, very simple truths...the "A Lot" that actually make up a very small portion of the population, yet they seem to strut around as if they are in a majority surrounded by a minority of Homer Simpson's...pretty strange.
All that typing and still didn't answer my question. Maybe you should recruit some of those 4 year olds to help you out.
-
All that typing and still didn't answer my question. Maybe you should recruit some of those 4 year olds to help you out.
The "inalianable rights" come from the God of Creation and God of Nature, as it is believed by 98% of people, not the Govt.
If you don't believe in God, fine, I understand that the concept seems wacky, but to 98% who do, it makes perfect sense, especially considering the history of totalitarian govts ruling over the life, liberty, and freedom of people.
-
The "inalianable rights" come from the God of Creation and God of Nature,
Then explain why the Bible - the source book for this God of Creation - denies many rights to women, slaves, and people of other religions.
Once you explain that little paradox you just created with your statement you can move along a bit further.
-
Then explain why the Bible - the source book for this God of Creation - denies many rights to women, slaves, and people of other religions.
Once you explain that little paradox you just created with your statement you can move along a bit further.
I have no idea - the Bible was written by men who were writing for their times. Maybe some others can explain that better than myself, but the premise is that the God who Created the universe is thew ultimate grantor of our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, not govt hacks on their fleeting whims and wishes.
-
as usual, the clowns in our society are the ones who tell the truth.
George Carlins take on rights is that if they really came from God then he/it would have given you the right to a bit of food every day and a roof over your head and wouldn't have been so concerned whether had a gun or not.
his take on "rights" starts @ 4:30
-
as usual, the clowns in our society are the ones who tell the truth.
George Carlins take on rights is that if they really came from God then he/it would have given you the right to a bit of food every day and a roof over your head and wouldn't have been so concerned whether had a gun or not.
his take on "rights" starts @ 4:30
::) ::)
I guess the concept of negative liberties has no meaning to you?
-
YES!
If you are born in some other country that does not have our Dec. of indep., consti, etc, your rights are subject to mans laws, not the creator. Wake up.
so "god" recognizes borders and citizenship?
::)
-
HEY MORON - HAVE YOU EVER READ THE DECLARATION OF iNDEPENDENCE?
"WE ARE ENDOWED BY OUR CREATOR"
Not obama, not bush, the trees and rocks, not gays, not the sun, but the creator.
there is no creator. hope that helps.
-
there is no creator. hope that helps.
Good, when obama/Bush/Palin or some other hack politician comes to rob your liberties from you, where are you going to say your "inalienable rights" derive from? The moon?
-
is this thread referring to deism or theism?
the founder fathers were deists
-
Good, when obama/Bush/Palin or some other hack politician comes to rob your liberties from you, where are you going to say your "inalienable rights" derive from? The moon?
Why do they need to be derived from anywhere ::)
-
Why do they need to be derived from anywhere ::)
Are you serious?
-
is this thread referring to deism or theism?
the founder fathers were deists
bump for 333386's reply
-
bump for 333386's reply
This issue has been discussed in so many other threads already. Many of these guys were committed christians and look up the quotes from Adams for Gods' sake.
-
This issue has been discussed in so many other threads already. Many of these guys were committed christians and look up the quotes from Adams for Gods' sake.
and many were Diest and some were no doubt agnostic or atheists
oddly, none of these alleged chrisitans managed to the word "jesus" or even "god" into our founding documents and even went out of there way to proclaim in official documents that our nation was in no way founded on the christian religion
they even went so far to establish a country that allowed for the freedom to practice any chosen religion or even none at all
pretty radical don't ya think?
-
and many were Diest and some were no doubt agnostic or atheists
oddly, none of these alleged chrisitans managed to the word "jesus" or even "god" into our founding documents and even went out of there way to proclaim in official documents that our nation was in no way founded on the christian religion
they even went so far to establish a country that allowed for the freedom to practice any chosen religion or even none at all
pretty radical don't ya think?
They did that because there were many divisions among many different sects and religions and many were distrustful of each other in that regard. The founders created the greatest documents in the world between the Declaration, Const. etc by setting up Govt how they did.
I agree with you on their views and am thrilled they were smart enough to frame the nation how they did.
-
They did that because there were many divisions among many different sects and religions and many were distrustful of each other in that regard. The founders created the greatest documents in the world between the Declaration, Const. etc by setting up Govt how they did.
I agree with you on their views and am thrilled they were smart enough to frame the nation how they did.
they did it because they saw how fucked up things get when you mix religion with government
this is basic shit man
-
they did it because they saw how fucked up things get when you mix religion with government
this is basic shit man
I agree - have I ever been a holy roller on this site?
-
Are you serious?
uh yeah. you mean to tell me that unless some "higher power" give me rights, I don't have any? lol
-
uh yeah. you mean to tell me that unless some "higher power" give me rights, I don't have any? lol
Look at it from the opposite point of view.
Lets say the govt comes out tommorow and says "Mindspin - you no longer have the right to life, liberty, and/or the pursuit if happiness".
What do you say and why?
-
Hey 333 - did our creator only create us citizens and no one else on the planet?
how about the native americans who were here before our country existed
did their creator give them the right of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
-
Hey 333 - did our creator only create us citizens and no one else on the planet?
how about the native americans who were here before our country existed
did their creator give them the right of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
Yes - and you know what - we have a shameful past in that respect.
-
Look at it from the opposite point of view.
Lets say the govt comes out tommorow and says "Mindspin - you no longer have the right to life, liberty, and/or the pursuit if happiness".
What do you say and why?
Do you think that if I responded to the government with "Hey guys, you can't take my rights away! They were given to me by God!!", that it would make any difference?
-
Do you think that if I responded to the government with "Hey guys, you can't take my rights away! They were given to me by God!!", that it would make any difference?
No it would not - but our revolution and founding was based upon this very notion considering the history of dealing with Britian and seeing what was occuring in Europe. They put the govt in place to secure those rights, that being, the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happieness.
And when the govt does not serve to protect those rights, the people have the right to overthrow the govt and institute a new one. Its the entire foundation of our nation.
-
No it would not - but our revolution and founding was based upon this very notion considering the history of dealing with Britian and seeing what was occuring in Europe. They put the govt in place to secure those rights, that being, the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happieness.
And when the govt does not serve to protect those rights, the people have the right to overthrow the govt and institute a new one. Its the entire foundation of our nation.
Whether these rights are given to us by some magical imaginary being, or we bestow them on ourselves, I agree that it is the governments job to protect them. And if they don't, then I assure you a revolution would be forthcoming...
-
Whether these rights are given to us by some magical imaginary being, or we bestow them on ourselves, I agree that it is the governments job to protect them. And if they don't, then I assure you a revolution would be forthcoming...
That is fine - but the idea is that something other than the govt bestowes these rights such that when and if the govt breaches these duties to protect rights, the people have the legal, moral, and civil justification for instituting a new govt.
If people believe their rights COME from the govt, then they must also believe that the govt has the right to take those rights away.
-
That is fine - but the idea is that something other than the govt bestowes these rights such that when and if the govt breaches these duties to protect rights, the people have the legal, moral, and civil justification for instituting a new govt.
If people believe their rights COME from the govt, then they must also believe that the govt has the right to take those rights away.
I thought the government was the people?
-
I thought the government was the people?
Yes and no. What if the people vote to institute slavery again? Etc etc. The govt is supposed to exist to PROMOTE AND PROTECT the rights of the people.
Of course we are so far gone from that as to be laughable, but in theory that is what it is supposed to be.
-
I have no idea - the Bible was written by men who were writing for their times. Maybe some others can explain that better than myself, but the premise is that the God who Created the universe is thew ultimate grantor of our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, not govt hacks on their fleeting whims and wishes.
In that case, gays are equally free to marry. So where is the argument against this now?
-
In that case, gays are equally free to marry. So where is the argument against this now?
I dont have a problem with gay marriage. If gays want to get married as a matter of law - fine. However - I also would not prohibit churches from not allowing those ceremonies.
-
I didn't ask you if you had a problem with it.
I said they should be free to marry. But yet, they can't. Why? Where are these Creator rights now? If that is the case, there would be no Prop 8 on the ballots because the mere fact of trying to take away an equal right from the Creator would be unconstitutional.
But hey... idiots don't fail to see that little contradition in their bigot biased views.
-
I didn't ask you if you had a problem with it.
I said they should be free to marry. But yet, they can't. Why? Where are these Creator rights now? If that is the case, there would be no Prop 8 on the ballots because the mere fact of trying to take away an equal right from the Creator would be unconstitutional.
But hey... idiots don't fail to see that little contradition in their bigot biased views.
Its being litigated in the courts as we speak. Marriage has traditionally been a states right issue and all of the arguments are being made as we speak.
-
Yes and no. What if the people vote to institute slavery again? Etc etc. The govt is supposed to exist to PROMOTE AND PROTECT the rights of the people.
Of course we are so far gone from that as to be laughable, but in theory that is what it is supposed to be.
Somehow a black supposedly muslim non-American citizen who is allegedly a fascist, usurped the established white right-wing bible thumping pro-gun anti gay republicans. I would say the "people" still have some power...
-
Somehow a black supposedly muslim non-American citizen who is allegedly a fascist, usurped the established white right-wing bible thumping pro-gun anti gay republicans. I would say the "people" still have some power...
::) ::)
Yeah ok buddy - keep buying into that false narrative. The propaganda machine worked perfectly on you just like the cheap sales job they knew would.
That is exactly why we have Obama in the first place as POTUS. Do you read anything? Obama was put into office by Wall Street banksters like Goldman Sachs, JP morgan etc.
Do you think it is any coincidence thatt he first people he apponited were Geithner, Summers, and a whole host of other Wall Street theives who actually started this mess? Did you even read my thread from an hour ago about the guy they just put in to State Department? How about the Citi thief Jacob Lew who is slated to be OMB director?
Seriously - why people by into this fairy tale nonsense about Obama being anything but a bought and sold puppet of Wall Street and other monies interests in beyond me considering the evidence.
-
Its being litigated in the courts as we speak. Marriage has traditionally been a states right issue and all of the arguments are being made as we speak.
It shouldn't be litigated at all since it is a right given to us by our Creator.
-
It shouldn't be litigated at all since it is a right given to us by our Creator.
That is not how societies have viewed it for the last few thousands years,.
-
I didn't ask you if you had a problem with it.
I said they should be free to marry. But yet, they can't. Why? Where are these Creator rights now? If that is the case, there would be no Prop 8 on the ballots because the mere fact of trying to take away an equal right from the Creator would be unconstitutional.
But hey... idiots don't fail to see that little contradition in their bigot biased views.
Do you really want to go with the creator angle on this? I can't think of any legitimate religion that doesn't condemn homosexuality.
-
Do you really want to go with the creator angle on this? I can't think of any legitimate religion that doesn't condemn homosexuality.
Do Buddhists condemn homosexuality? I don't know so i'm asking.
-
Do you really want to go with the creator angle on this? I can't think of any legitimate religion that doesn't condemn homosexuality.
I thought Episcopals or maybe Presbyterians (sp?) allowed it. Maybe not, but wasn't there something in the news about a major church voting to allow for it?
-
The Catholic Church seems to have a strange affinity for young boys..
-
That is not how societies have viewed it for the last few thousands years,.
Well then, they are not following the same doctrine that you are bleating about over Obama are they? Guess you got to expand your little whine list a bit more to include that or just drop the crying all together.
-
Well then, they are not following the same doctrine that you are bleating about over Obama are they? Guess you got to expand your little whine list a bit more to include that or just drop the crying all together.
I didnt realize your not being able to marry your boyfriend was so upsetting to you.
Whatever, I still support it even if most of the nation does not. More power to you if thats' your thing.
-
Do you really want to go with the creator angle on this? I can't think of any legitimate religion that doesn't condemn homosexuality.
Who said anything in regards to religions and homosexuality?
My statement is in regards to Creator given rights of our nation citizens. Last time I checked, they didn't need religious rights to marry, they need state rights. So why don't they have them if it is based on our rights given by our Creator.
-
I didnt realize your not being able to marry your boyfriend was so upsetting to you.
Whatever, I still support it even if most of the nation does not. More power to you if thats' your thing.
Still handling the pseudo gay schtick when you can't come back with anything else? I think you secretly want me to be gay. Even if I were, you wouldn't be my type because fat bald men living in their fake little worlds wouldn't do it for me.
So continue your little crying gig until you can contribute something of substance.
-
Obama back to omitting Creator again
c5's Simian Roadhouse ^ | April 21, 2011 | Consigliere5
Two New Examples!
The Blaze managed to catch Obama omitting the word "Creator" when referring to words from the Declaration of Independence yet again!!
As we’ve noted several times, Obama has a habit of leaving out “Creator” when he quotes the founding document (see here, here, and here). And he did it once again while speaking to supporters in San Francisco last night:
Obama had a problem with leaving out that phrase back in 2009 and 2010 but seemed to get with the program during the last couple of months in 2010. (He must have gotten the message around October 2010 because he used it over and over.)
Now it seems he's back to his old behavior. I managed to find a second example from just this month at http://www.whitehouse.gov:
April 14, 2011:
Remarks by the President at a DNC Event Navy Pier Chicago, Illinois
It’s not the size of our skyscrapers. It’s not the size of our GDP. It’s the fact that we’re able to keep two ideas together at the same time: One, that we’re all individuals with -- endowed with certain inalienable rights and liberties; and we’re self-reliant; and we’re entrepreneurs; and we don't want folks telling us what to do. That’s part of -- being an individual is so important to us. But we also have this idea that we’re all in this together; that we look out for one another; that I am my brother’s keeper, I am my sister’s keeper; that I want to make sure that child on the South Side or the West Side or out in Maywood or out in Dolton, that they’ve got the same opportunities that I’ve had. (Applause.) And that I’m looking after them, not out of charity, but because my life is richer, my life is better when the people around me are happy and the people around me have a shot at the American Dream.
Here's the example that The Blaze found:
April 21, 2011:
Remarks by the President at a DNC Event Nob Hill Masonic Center, San Francisco, California
The America we know is great not because of our skyscrapers or the size of our GDP. It’s because we’ve been able to keep two ideas together at the same time. The first idea is that we are all individuals endowed with certain inalienable rights and liberties; that we are self-reliant; we are entrepreneurs. We don't expect others to do for us what we can do for ourselves, and we don't really like people telling us what to do. (Laughter.)
Here's my old post about this from last year.
-
Obama back to omitting Creator again
c5's Simian Roadhouse ^ | April 21, 2011 | Consigliere5
Two New Examples!
The Blaze managed to catch Obama omitting the word "Creator" when referring to words from the Declaration of Independence yet again!!
As we’ve noted several times, Obama has a habit of leaving out “Creator” when he quotes the founding document (see here, here, and here). And he did it once again while speaking to supporters in San Francisco last night:
Obama had a problem with leaving out that phrase back in 2009 and 2010 but seemed to get with the program during the last couple of months in 2010. (He must have gotten the message around October 2010 because he used it over and over.)
Now it seems he's back to his old behavior. I managed to find a second example from just this month at http://www.whitehouse.gov:
April 14, 2011:
Remarks by the President at a DNC Event Navy Pier Chicago, Illinois
It’s not the size of our skyscrapers. It’s not the size of our GDP. It’s the fact that we’re able to keep two ideas together at the same time: One, that we’re all individuals with -- endowed with certain inalienable rights and liberties; and we’re self-reliant; and we’re entrepreneurs; and we don't want folks telling us what to do. That’s part of -- being an individual is so important to us. But we also have this idea that we’re all in this together; that we look out for one another; that I am my brother’s keeper, I am my sister’s keeper; that I want to make sure that child on the South Side or the West Side or out in Maywood or out in Dolton, that they’ve got the same opportunities that I’ve had. (Applause.) And that I’m looking after them, not out of charity, but because my life is richer, my life is better when the people around me are happy and the people around me have a shot at the American Dream.
Here's the example that The Blaze found:
April 21, 2011:
Remarks by the President at a DNC Event Nob Hill Masonic Center, San Francisco, California
The America we know is great not because of our skyscrapers or the size of our GDP. It’s because we’ve been able to keep two ideas together at the same time. The first idea is that we are all individuals endowed with certain inalienable rights and liberties; that we are self-reliant; we are entrepreneurs. We don't expect others to do for us what we can do for ourselves, and we don't really like people telling us what to do. (Laughter.)
Here's my old post about this from last year.
Pretty clear his omissions are intentional.
-
Like I have said before a socialist/communist will not mention a higher power, it takes away from their persona power as the answer to all problems
-
He said some crazy shit in the prayer breakfast along those lines as well. The man is demented.
-
LoL - it's hilarious what some fundies and other right wing loonies think is important
-
LoL - it's hilarious what some fundies and other right wing loonies think is important
It's almost as funny as you arguing that the stimulus wasn't big enough and that we don't spend enough money.
Hi S&P!
-
LoL - it's hilarious what some fundies and other right wing loonies think is important
What I think is funny is that a guy that supposedly is a constitutional scholar can't even quote the founding documents correctly