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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Captain Equipoise on November 29, 2010, 10:59:01 AM

Title: Sexy watches!
Post by: Captain Equipoise on November 29, 2010, 10:59:01 AM
God damn, I love this watch...Special Forces UDT by Chase Durer

you may have seen it on Burn Notice

(http://www.vvs1blue.com/06cdm/cd_black_steel03.jpg)

what kind of watches do you guys wear and like!? and please no $20 hello kitty shit or timex

real watches only..

Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Ursus on November 29, 2010, 11:25:08 AM
My cheap watch tells the time exactly the same as that one.

Though if I scratch the face I won't rage hard. It would be nice to have a cool watch though not high on my priority list.
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: smoothasf on November 29, 2010, 11:39:36 AM
Just got a police watch today looks classy and most comfortable one I've worn in a while
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: epic_alien on November 29, 2010, 12:01:46 PM
God damn, I love this watch...Special Forces UDT by Chase Durer

you may have seen it on Burn Notice

(http://www.vvs1blue.com/06cdm/cd_black_steel03.jpg)

what kind of watches do you guys wear and like!? and please no $20 hello kitty shit or timex

real watches only..



real watches only? that "black steel" watch surely isnt a real watch.

swiss army officers watch comes to mind maybe.

Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: ManBearPig... on November 29, 2010, 12:23:46 PM
God damn, I love this watch...Special Forces UDT by Chase Durer

you may have seen it on Burn Notice

(http://www.vvs1blue.com/06cdm/cd_black_steel03.jpg)

what kind of watches do you guys wear and like!? and please no $20 hello kitty shit or timex

real watches only..



i think if you're not in the "special forces" you shouldn't wear a watch that says so.
same with assholes who wear porsche watches.

i only have one watch that i wear maybe once a year:

(http://www.discountwatchstore.com/assets/images/products/2600018%28G%29.jpg)
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: hazbin on November 29, 2010, 12:25:23 PM
i was blowing huge money gambling, and i needed something to make me quit. i said if i quit for a month this watch was free. i did it, but continued gambling since dammit.  it doesn't even keep that great of time, and if you don't wear it for 2 days you have to reset it.  i don't actually have a closeup pic of it
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Stark on November 29, 2010, 12:28:24 PM
Reality check - Operators don't wear watches that scream JACK BAUER!!!
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Stark on November 29, 2010, 12:29:05 PM
i was blowing huge money gambling, and i needed something to make me quit. i said if i quit for a month this watch was free. i did it, but continued gambling since dammit.  it doesn't even keep that great of time, and if you don't wear it for 2 days you have to reset it.  i don't actually have a closeup pic of it

lol great gimmick :D
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: wes on November 29, 2010, 12:30:32 PM
I wear a $70.00 Fossil watch and it keeps perfect time.

Not gonna` waste big money on a fucking watch.
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: XFACTOR on November 29, 2010, 12:37:17 PM
Have a Graham, Rolex, and a Nabucco. I'd say the Nabucco and the Graham are my favs.  Rolex is less bulky and good for suits.

The Nabucco is especially awesome, pretty reasonable as well, under 7k.

Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Evo on November 29, 2010, 12:41:27 PM
Everyday watch

(http://www.goldandtimes.co.uk/ekmps/shops/goldandtimes/images/police-rogue-dual-time-watch-11745msb02m-410-p.jpg)

Dress Watch

(http://s7ondemand4.scene7.com/is/image/Signet/6466869?$detail475$)
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Evo on November 29, 2010, 12:43:27 PM
Have a Graham, Rolex, and a Nabucco. I'd say the Nabucco and the Graham are my favs.  Rolex is less bulky and good for suits.

The Nabucco is especially awesome, pretty reasonable as well, under 7k.



The wiel is a great looking watch...if I didn't get the above at a knock down price I was going to get myself one or a similar piece.
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: #1 Klaus fan on November 29, 2010, 12:45:35 PM
Who needs a watch when your cellphone has the time.
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: XFACTOR on November 29, 2010, 12:47:11 PM
The wiel is a great looking watch...if I didn't get the above at a knock down price I was going to get myself one or a similar piece.

 The second I put that watch on my wrist I had to have it.  Such a sweet watch. 
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Evo on November 29, 2010, 12:51:01 PM
The second I put that watch on my wrist I had to have it.  Such a sweet watch. 

Quite understandable lol.  One of the reasons I tend not to go in jewelery stores too often.

A friend of mine pulled a fantastic scam and ended up with 2 of the Tag link's for the price of one, hence my acquiring on one at reduced price. ;)
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Schmoff on November 29, 2010, 01:00:23 PM
what is that watch Arnie wearing?

Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Cleanest Natural on November 29, 2010, 01:29:08 PM
Patek Phillipe Calatrava for me
(http://www.elegant-lifestyle.com/PatekPhilippeCalatrava.jpg)

Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: wes mantooth on November 29, 2010, 01:32:40 PM
my cellphone is my watch. Im a t shirt type of guy. watches dont do it for me....
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: ManBearPig... on November 29, 2010, 01:33:35 PM
Who needs a watch when your cellphone has the time.

it's an accessory, a piece of jewelry, not just a time piece.

a nice watch is cool in my book; it goes along nice with a good outfit, it's just that i never wear good outfits.
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: The True Adonis on November 29, 2010, 01:47:58 PM
i was blowing huge money gambling, and i needed something to make me quit. i said if i quit for a month this watch was free. i did it, but continued gambling since dammit.  it doesn't even keep that great of time, and if you don't wear it for 2 days you have to reset it.  i don't actually have a closeup pic of it
Why do you have a "Fu Man Chu"?  If I was a gambler I`d bet it all that you lean heavily into the bear/old pig/musclefurs sub-culture (BayGM`s prime choice) and either engage or have engaged in activities that define their group.
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: hazbin on November 29, 2010, 02:03:13 PM
Why do you have a "Fu Man Chu"?  If I was a gambler I`d bet it all that you lean heavily into the bear/old pig/musclefurs sub-culture (BayGM`s prime choice) and either engage or have engaged in activities that define their group.

that pic is a few years old when i was competing. you have to stand out from the dozens of guys on stage with bald heads and goatees. the other option was dyeing it orange or white. seemed like the easist option. still didnt place well .sorry, nothing gay about it.
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: The True Adonis on November 29, 2010, 02:07:32 PM
that pic is a few years old when i was competing. you have to stand out from the dozens of guys on stage with bald heads and goatees. the other option was dyeing it orange or white. seemed like the easist option. still didnt place well .sorry, nothing gay about it.
I applaud you for your honestly and that this line of questioning didn`t ruffle you up.  I believe you.

If standing out is what you want, might I suggest a fancy hat or a monocle next time.  Don`t you think that may do a better job than a dyed Fu Man Chu?
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: The Showstoppa on November 29, 2010, 02:08:26 PM
I applaud you for your honestly and that this line of questioning didn`t ruffle you up.  I believe you.

If standing out is what you want, might I suggest a fancy hat or a monocle next time.  Don`t you think that may do a better job than a dyed Fu Man Chu?

LOL.....haha, awesome look...... ;D
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: hazbin on November 29, 2010, 02:14:01 PM
I applaud you for your honestly and that this line of questioning didn`t ruffle you up.  I believe you.

If standing out is what you want, might I suggest a fancy hat or a monocle next time.  Don`t you think that may do a better job than a dyed Fu Man Chu?

my other option would have been to have a better physique than everyone else, but that never happened either, so i was stuck in the middle of the pack. never saw anyone wear a hat onstage, but a couple times in 20+ years i saw guys wear glasses. one time a guy with glasses won the overall now that you mention it.
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: dr.chimps on November 29, 2010, 02:15:18 PM
I applaud you for your honestly and that this line of questioning didn`t ruffle you up.  I believe you.

If standing out is what you want, might I suggest a fancy hat or a monocle next time.  Don`t you think that may do a better job than a dyed Fu Man Chu?
Ah, the Eustace Tilley look. Works every time.  ;D
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Captain Equipoise on November 29, 2010, 02:30:23 PM
I applaud you for your honestly and that this line of questioning didn`t ruffle you up.  I believe you.

If standing out is what you want, might I suggest a fancy hat or a monocle next time.  Don`t you think that may do a better job than a dyed Fu Man Chu?

Fucking right!!
 ;D
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Marty Champions on November 29, 2010, 02:35:45 PM
I wear a $70.00 Fossil watch and it keeps perfect time.

Not gonna` waste big money on a fucking watch.

we have cellphones now that keep the time
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: PRO_Crastinator on November 29, 2010, 02:38:26 PM
Invicta is a great band of watch you can look at.
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: JasonH on November 29, 2010, 02:43:02 PM
This is the watch I'm wearing right now:

(http://www.watchtimeuk.com/media/ecom/prodsm/ar0156_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: mr.turbo on November 29, 2010, 02:48:20 PM
(http://www.trendart-24.de/shop/images/product_images/original_images/1082_0.jpg)

military watches are the best but don't try too hard!
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: stuntmovie on November 29, 2010, 02:51:59 PM
BACK in the Corps we used to check-out watches. (Government issue courtesy of the Corps!)

I don't know if they were real expensive watches but they worked damn well in and out of water and under extreme conditions and glowed just enough so that the bad guys couldn't shoot your hand off after the sun went down.

Someone in Japan asked to buy the watch I 'checked-out' for a very decent price saying that it was worth every yen he offered, but I couldn't return to base with a pocketful of yen and no watch on my my wrist for some un-recalled reason.

Some of us 'forgot' to check them back in upon retirement or release from active duty, but I was too damn honest and have worn cheap but decent civilian watches ever since.

But I still don't like them to glow too brightly after the sun goes down for some damn forgotten reason.

Thanks for that picture, Turbo! But that was the cheaper military model. I think those were $16 units and you had to reimburse the government those $16 if you lost it.

My unit was a bit more 'exclusive' and got the more expensive ones with shit on it that I never needed nor ever completely understood how to use. I kinda miss it now.
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Marty Champions on November 29, 2010, 02:56:42 PM
Time Wasonlycock 1932-2012 rip
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Bobby on November 29, 2010, 02:59:17 PM
ohh it tells time WOW!! :o :D

Who needs a watch when your cellphone has the time.

+1 8)
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: disturbia on November 29, 2010, 03:08:39 PM
i was blowing huge money gambling, and i needed something to make me quit. i said if i quit for a month this watch was free. i did it, but continued gambling since dammit.  it doesn't even keep that great of time, and if you don't wear it for 2 days you have to reset it.  i don't actually have a closeup pic of it


 >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: stuntmovie on November 29, 2010, 03:09:29 PM
Speaking of which, I've been told by a 'Futurist' (one who thinks of stuff to invent for future development and gets good money for doing so) that cell phones and time telling 'devices' will soon be compact enough to be installed within your mouth in the same place where one of your molars used to be. And all forms of entertainment that you now go to movie theaters to see or watch on 60 inch plazma TV's will soon be experienced in 3D and Dolby sound via light weight 'sun glasses' at a cost of less than $400 per.

He showed me a very long list of future products that are being thought about, considered, and soon to be in production.

A very smart and very wealthy guy who served some time overseas with us at one of Kennedy's Think-tank guys.
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: tommywishbone on November 29, 2010, 03:24:53 PM
I wear only Hello Kitty.
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: stuntmovie on November 29, 2010, 03:37:46 PM
Hello Kitty ... probably made by the same company who made our military watches a while back. They took all those old military watches they found stored in some long forgotten government warehouse and painted a new face on them and made millions. But do they still glow in the dark?

The above reminds me of a Bob Hoffman warehouse story that has yet to be told to the masses. I gotta check those old warehouse guys and get the facts straight first before releasing it to the GetBig Papparazzi though.

Hazbin, what's your casino game of choice? I consider myself to be a fairly good Craps mathematician and am damn good at Blackjack Basic Strategy ... which simply means that I lose money in the casino a little bit slower than  the normal unknowing and uneducated casino sucker.

Disturbia is the smart but insane guy who sticks with Poker which gives him a decent chance to make a profit unless he plays in a casino where the rake makes that impossible. But I assume he cannot for fear of punching the dealer in the nose on any bad hand dealt his way. (Respectfully stated of course!)

(Am I telling ya anything about casino shit that may be new to ya here?|)

Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: daddy8ball on November 29, 2010, 03:46:35 PM
 ;)
(http://www.ulysse-nardin.ch/ulysse-nardin-webseite/uploadfiles/e59a163c-d8ad-4dca-b5ab-67c7dd514d14.jpg)
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Tapeworm on November 29, 2010, 03:58:32 PM
I applaud you for your honestly and that this line of questioning didn`t ruffle you up.  I believe you.

If standing out is what you want, might I suggest a fancy hat or a monocle next time.  Don`t you think that may do a better job than a dyed Fu Man Chu?

Haha.  You want him to compete as Mr Peanut?!  Don't forget the gloves and cane.
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Spike on November 29, 2010, 04:27:04 PM
Patek Phillipe Calatrava for me
(http://www.elegant-lifestyle.com/PatekPhilippeCalatrava.jpg)



yea fckn right

like you got 5g's americano - thats shits more than yhour moms basement rent for the next 20yr you'll pay ::)
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: noworries on November 29, 2010, 04:54:07 PM
still my favorite
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Firemuscle on November 29, 2010, 04:54:57 PM
 If you wear a huge shiny watch you look like a douchebag clubber, wannabe player.

 Better to go subtle.
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Alexander D on November 29, 2010, 05:00:43 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Montague on November 29, 2010, 05:04:07 PM
I’ve been wearing a Luminox Faststrap Series for the last 5 years.
Nothing fancy.
Tough as nails.
Because mine is older, the band looks slightly different from the one pictured - less color.
(http://www.luminox.com/assets/Pictures/Products/A.3901_big.png)


When the time comes to replace it, I may go with the A.1847:
(http://www.luminox.com/assets/Pictures/Products/A.1847_big.png)
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: noworries on November 29, 2010, 05:08:41 PM
If you wear a huge shiny watch you look like a douchebag clubber, wannabe player.

 Better to go subtle.

My wrist is 9"+ no watch looks huge on me
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: OneMoreRep on November 29, 2010, 05:16:12 PM
You studs are evaluating watches as if they're jewelry. Get a fucking bracelet; why even bother with a bulky watch if you're only concerned with bling factor? A watch is for keeping time, a bracelet is for show.

A Bently won't get you to work any faster than a Toyota, in traffic.

A hundred bucks is generous, IMO.

"1"
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Firemuscle on November 29, 2010, 05:19:31 PM
You studs are evaluating watches as if they're jewelry. Get a fucking bracelet; why even bother with a bulky watch if you're only concerned with bling factor? A watch is for keeping time, a bracelet is for show.

A Bently won't get you to work any faster than a Toyota, in traffic.

A hundred bucks is generous, IMO.

"1"

 Usually a watch is just jewelry.

 To check the time you can just look at your cell phone these days. This ain't the 1980's anymore.

 The only time a watch is really functional is if you are travelling or playing sports or something.
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Captain Equipoise on November 29, 2010, 05:44:14 PM
BACK in the Corps we used to check-out watches. (Government issue courtesy of the Corps!)

I don't know if they were real expensive watches but they worked damn well in and out of water and under extreme conditions and glowed just enough so that the bad guys couldn't shoot your hand off after the sun went down.

Someone in Japan asked to buy the watch I 'checked-out' for a very decent price saying that it was worth every yen he offered, but I couldn't return to base with a pocketful of yen and no watch on my my wrist for some un-recalled reason.

Some of us 'forgot' to check them back in upon retirement or release from active duty, but I was too damn honest and have worn cheap but decent civilian watches ever since.

But I still don't like them to glow too brightly after the sun goes down for some damn forgotten reason.

Thanks for that picture, Turbo! But that was the cheaper military model. I think those were $16 units and you had to reimburse the government those $16 if you lost it.

My unit was a bit more 'exclusive' and got the more expensive ones with shit on it that I never needed nor ever completely understood how to use. I kinda miss it now.

This is exactly why I love and wear military gear, it's built rock solid and made to last!!

Usually a watch is just jewelry.

 To check the time you can just look at your cell phone these days. This ain't the 1980's anymore.

 The only time a watch is really functional is if you are travelling or playing sports or something.

Most idiots don't know how to use a chronometer, or the computer part of a watch (logarithmic scale) for calculating things like speed, distance, etc. I happen to know and use these functions as well as the timer feature, maybe for a twink like you a watch is just a bracelet but to some people that bracelet is a tool with a variety of functions that a cell phone may not have.
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: BIG ACH on November 29, 2010, 05:50:21 PM
Some beautiful timepieces up in this thread!


I never thought I'd say this about Casio but I really like this one:

(http://www.discountwatchstore.com/assets/images/Casio/GW3000BD-1A.jpg)


Now... onto some real watches!

Very cliche but this is my dream watch:

(http://www.rolex-mens.com/images/8/12804577133.jpg)


Also like this ugly thing:

(http://youngmanmaster.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/baselworld-2009-omega-ploprof-re-release-2.jpg)


And Arnold's Favorite Watch brand:

(http://greatnewdeal.com/assets/products/items_images/large/2197-673-ap1_front.jpg)
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: LurkerNoMore on November 29, 2010, 06:01:10 PM
The Rolex Cellini is a great dress watch.
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: hazbin on November 29, 2010, 06:05:05 PM
Some beautiful timepieces up in this thread!


I never thought I'd say this about Casio but I really like this one:

(http://www.discountwatchstore.com/assets/images/Casio/GW3000BD-1A.jpg)


Now... onto some real watches!

Very cliche but this is my dream watch:

(http://www.rolex-mens.com/images/8/12804577133.jpg)


Also like this ugly thing:

(http://youngmanmaster.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/baselworld-2009-omega-ploprof-re-release-2.jpg)


And Arnold's Favorite Watch brand:

(http://greatnewdeal.com/assets/products/items_images/large/2197-673-ap1_front.jpg)

i've got the Rolex submariner in s/s gold two tone and one in just stainless steel.
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: BIG ACH on November 29, 2010, 06:07:02 PM

Another one of my faves - Saw one in Beverly Hills this past weekend:

(http://www.topchinatrend.com/images/November%202009/P1138X.jpg)
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: BIG ACH on November 29, 2010, 06:07:52 PM
i've got the Rolex submariner in s/s gold two tone and one in just stainless steel.

Niiiice!!!  My dad is a big rolex guy, he sports a Daytona with a white face!! Beautiful and HEAVY watch lol
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: BIG ACH on November 29, 2010, 06:12:11 PM

I'm an Omega fan myself:

One of my faves:
(http://76.my/UserImages/Items/0706/27/Empire8@14.jpg)


And one on me and my lady:

(http://www.ahmedelattar.com/images/Omega1.jpg)
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Captain Equipoise on November 29, 2010, 08:53:27 PM
LOL what the fuck is that thing on her ring finger!?! it looks like some kind of plumbing device..
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: TacoBell on November 29, 2010, 08:58:30 PM
Why is her skin so pale?  Is she an infidel?
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Meso_z on November 29, 2010, 09:58:31 PM
I wear this lately.

(http://www.watches-bay.com/images/products/casio/EFA120L-1A1V_b5.jpg)
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Meso_z on November 29, 2010, 10:02:25 PM
cheap and good looking.
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: sync pulse on November 30, 2010, 12:00:03 AM
Accutron from the 1960's, belonged to my uncle.
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Parker on November 30, 2010, 12:46:43 AM
I'm really feeling these Urwerks
http://www.urwerk.com/watches_202.asp (http://www.urwerk.com/watches_202.asp)
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Dorian01 on November 30, 2010, 01:06:07 AM
what is that watch Arnie wearing?
Looks like some type of Bell & Ross

(http://image.hoheng.com/images/BELL%20009BYO_A_190155%20%287%29.JPG)
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Cleanest Natural on November 30, 2010, 05:25:19 AM
Accutron from the 1960's, belonged to my uncle.
I like classics
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: CalvinH on November 30, 2010, 06:21:34 AM
I have a Tag.
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Brixtonbulldog on November 30, 2010, 06:37:46 AM
I wear this..

(http://harrogatehouseoffers.com/images/Dashtronic-1.jpg)

I want this..

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hY0FQwcl9tM/S9GxWJXatJI/AAAAAAAADDo/97Nee4X6_ZA/s1600/rj-volcano-dna-watch.jpg)
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: ManBearPig... on November 30, 2010, 06:56:06 AM
what are watches like as investments?  is it one of those "loses 50% upon leaving the store" deals, or do they hold up in value?  do any increase in value?
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: BIG ACH on November 30, 2010, 07:02:24 AM

I want this..

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hY0FQwcl9tM/S9GxWJXatJI/AAAAAAAADDo/97Nee4X6_ZA/s1600/rj-volcano-dna-watch.jpg)

Always loved that watch!  Fucking pricey though lol
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Captain Equipoise on November 30, 2010, 04:27:21 PM
I'm really feeling these Urwerks
http://www.urwerk.com/watches_202.asp (http://www.urwerk.com/watches_202.asp)

You're fucked dude, I just checked the price on those things, it's a novelty at best... lol you can be driving a 911 Turbo S for that..
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Firemuscle on November 30, 2010, 04:32:32 PM
 Fuck materialism and status symbols like watches and shit.
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: HTexan on November 30, 2010, 05:09:54 PM
(http://imgsrv.aeromatic1912.de/R-001/R-001-1.jpg)
(http://cdn.gajitz.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/retrofuturistic-watch.jpg)
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: Brixtonbulldog on November 30, 2010, 05:23:39 PM
Fuck materialism and status symbols like watches and shit.

materialism my ass.. neat shit is neat shit.  having nice shit doesn't mean you only care about status

go be a communist pussy somewhere else ;D
Title: Re: Sexy watches!
Post by: BIG ACH on November 30, 2010, 06:58:23 PM
materialism my ass.. neat shit is neat shit.  having nice shit doesn't mean you only care about status

go be a communist pussy somewhere else ;D

Well said!!! 8)