should not be underestimated. never focus on one without having a decent amount of the other. the most logical way is to warm up without exausting yorself, then go heavy untill your strength starts to decline, after that point do a few sets or more with light weights like 30%1 rpm even and squeeze the muscle. dont fatigue the muscle with the high reps.
Depends on the individual imo. I hardly ever go below 8 reps anymore. Overhead I'm going very light, 20-30 reps. "Go heavy or go home" for me translates to "Go heavy, get injured."true
trueHmmm, I personally know guys in their 40's that are doing PLing meets......seems they go pretty heavy.
gym warriors have SHORT lifespans
Depends on the individual imo. I hardly ever go below 8 reps anymore. Overhead I'm going very light, 20-30 reps. "Go heavy or go home" for me translates to "Go heavy, get injured."
Hmmm, I personally know guys in their 40's that are doing PLing meets......seems they go pretty heavy.
Tbombz looks quite unimpressive considering his drug history. In my opinion.
should not be underestimated. never focus on one without having a decent amount of the other. the most logical way is to warm up without exausting yorself, then go heavy untill your strength starts to decline, after that point do a few sets or more with light weights like 30%1 rpm even and squeeze the muscle. dont fatigue the muscle with the high reps.
You could eat a jamaican meal and 2 oreo cookies and bench 405 naturally YOBOOOM! ;D
Depends on the individual imo. I hardly ever go below 8 reps anymore. Overhead I'm going very light, 20-30 reps. "Go heavy or go home" for me translates to "Go heavy, get injured."wrong. you dont get injured by going heavy, you get injured by training incorrectly- whether its improper form, improper warm up, lack of stretching, etc. you wont grow much at all after a while if you never go below 8 reps, simply because the weight your using will not be increasing quick enough, if its increasing any at all.
Hmmm, I personally know guys in their 40's that are doing PLing meets......seems they go pretty heavy.yuppppp. age is a number people sometimes hide behind..
In my opinon I think that it's good to go really heavy (not more than 6 reps or so) if you aren't already super strong ie benching over 300 for 5 or 6 reps. Then when one does get super strong then I think it's a good idea to switch to higher reps, but I don't know for sure since I ain't super strong LOL!some truth to this, but eventually the guy would start to have to lift heavy again or else he would hit a platue and be unable to move past it.
I go heavy for teh first 1-2 exercises and try to get 6-10 reps.good :)
Then as the workout progresses I go 'lighter' but do more reps and a bit faster.
I like to do my high rep set first when it comes to squats. Makes the heavier set(s) seem a lot less dangerous.makes sense
In the long run it's better to go for avoiding injury.
If you lift heavy and hard for 3 years and get great results, then you tear a pec and fuck your body up, is it worth it?
Ask Dorian ;)
wrong. you dont get injured by going heavy, you get injured by training incorrectly- whether its improper form, improper warm up, lack of stretching, etc. you wont grow much at all after a while if you never go below 8 reps, simply because the weight your using will not be increasing quick enough, if its increasing any at all.
the importance of both heavy weights and high reps should not be underestimated. never focus on one without having a decent amount of the other. the most logical way is to warm up without exausting yorself, then go heavy untill your strength starts to decline, after that point do a few sets or more with light weights like 30%1 rpm even and squeeze the muscle. dont fatigue the muscle with the high reps.
injury prone=disease of the mind.. reality, especially your body, is controlled by your perception of it. ;)
No, no, no, reality is the arbiter of the mind not the other way around :). I don't agree with the high reps at all, it is only a tool to allow you to adjust intensity so that you don't overload the muscle in say 1 rep and cause an injury. All this bullshit people are on about Dorian's style being useless because the tears suddenly negate its credibility is stupid and small minded. That's like saying Hitler had a moustache, so now everybody possessing one will automatically be evil. Dorian's outlook is very close to ideal training, he just developed fear and uncertainty of shrinking if he were to leave a minor injury to heal. He touched on this, he says he didn't practice what he preached at times.
what you fellas need to remember is,,that you can work super heavy but it doesnt always mean bigger muscle,,the fellas with the strongest tendoin and bones lift the heavier weights ,,more than the ones with big muscle,,you do need a good combo of both to be superb bodybuilder,,but if you look around you in the gym mr joe moboy that sits 9% 190lb 6feet never train heavy and yet he show great shape and very nice muscle correct? so the key is work as heavy as possible for you for bodybuilding,,then again some fellas like to lift heavy as in LIKE to lift heavy im one of them,,so thoe fellas do it because they LIKE lifting heavy they like to see the poundage being lifted ,,they just like lifting very heavy which i support as long as you know what you are doing,,
now,,WHATS MORE IMPORTANT IS THAT YOU BE ON HORMONES WHILE LIFTING HEAVY ,,and WHATS MORE IMPORTANT IS THAT YOU EAT YOUR ICECREAM AT NIGHT AND YOUR HOURLY CALORIC NEEDS WHEN ON GH ,,BECAUSE THIS IS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTER,, IF YOU DO NOT EAT YOUR MOMMY AND DADDY ON GH YOU WILL LOSE BF TOO FAST,,AND THEN NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU LIFT YOU WONT LOOK LIKE BODYBUILDER BUT MORE OF A FIT FITNESS GUY THAT IS LIFTING WEIGHT AND IN REAL GOOD SHAPE,,
ON HGH YOU NEED TO EAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT,, YOU HAVE NO COICE BECAUSE BODY WILL GO ON STRIKE ON YOU IF YOU DONT ,,IT JUST GONNA MAKE YOU WANT TO SLEEP IF YOU DONT,,YOU NEED TO EAAAAAAAAAAAT ON HGH,,YE ICECREAM TOO ,,YES DONUTS TOO,,YES ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING AS LONG AS ITS NOT COMPLETELY OIL OF BUNCH OF USLESS CHOCOLATS,,BUT ICECREASM PIZZA BURGER SUSHI QUAlITY WEIGHT GAINER ,,JANAICA N ANYTHING AND KEEP RATIOS KNOWN TO YOU AS BODYBUILDER,,BUT HAVE TO EAT EAT EAT,,
THERE IS SUCH A THING AS BURNING FAT TOO FAST AND YOU WILL SEE WHAT IT IS ON HGH IF YOU DONT EAT ALL THE TIME
THE REASON MICHAEL PHELPS SAID HE WAS EATING 10K CALIRES A DAY OR 12K IS BECAUSE HE IS ON HGH , NOT ON MEGA AAS BUT HGH ,,NOW PUT A BODYBUILDER ON MEGA DOSES AAS AND HGH ESPECIALLY HIGHER DOSES...AND IF YOU DONT EAT YOUR ICECREAM YOU SIMPLY WONT USE THE HGH TO ITS FULL POTENTIAL,,
make sure gh is legit: )
gh15 approved
Going *heavy* is unnecessary for building mass.
Going heavy damages your body - destroys your joints - creates injuries.
Going heavy is stupid.
Moderation is key... longevity is the goal.
injury prone=disease of the mind.. reality, especially your body, is controlled by your perception of it. ;)
should not be underestimated. never focus on one without having a decent amount of the other. the most logical way is to warm up without exausting yorself, then go heavy untill your strength starts to decline, after that point do a few sets or more with light weights like 30%1 rpm even and squeeze the muscle. dont fatigue the muscle with the high reps.
How you train doesn't really mean shit. Especially on heavy cycles, which our friend Tbombz is very much in to.
Depends on the individual imo. I hardly ever go below 8 reps anymore. Overhead I'm going very light, 20-30 reps. "Go heavy or go home" for me translates to "Go heavy, get injured."
rubbish.
train intensely and get injured is the rule. you can still go heavy and stop reps short.
you can also train heavy and sloppy and get hurt.
you can also train light and beyond failure and get hurt, or sloppy and get hurt.
i can take a shopping bag and twist wrong and put myself in a hospital bed for weeks.
i can lift my 3 rep max and stop at 2, or 1, and control it and do it safely and not get hurt.
i can do 30 reps and the last few squeeze and fail and tear a pec off the bone.
wrong. you dont get injured by going heavy, you get injured by training incorrectly- whether its improper form, improper warm up, lack of stretching, etc. you wont grow much at all after a while if you never go below 8 reps, simply because the weight your using will not be increasing quick enough, if its increasing any at all.
yuppppp. age is a number people sometimes hide behind..
some truth to this, but eventually the guy would start to have to lift heavy again or else he would hit a platue and be unable to move past it.
good :)
makes sense
what a simplistic viewpoint. thanks for sharing.
you clearly know nothing about specific adaptation and the way that rep schemes are learnt neurologically.
THIS is why morons like gh15 believe there are natural limits- because people who dont use drugs, and dont bother or cant learn how to train, dont achieve anything substantial.
and those who sponge loads of drugs can do anything and grow.
what a simplistic viewpoint. thanks for sharing.
you clearly know nothing about specific adaptation and the way that rep schemes are learnt neurologically.
THIS is why morons like gh15 believe there are natural limits- because people who dont use drugs, and dont bother or cant learn how to train, dont achieve anything substantial.
and those who sponge loads of drugs can do anything and grow.
should not be underestimated. never focus on one without having a decent amount of the other. the most logical way is to warm up without exausting yorself, then go heavy untill your strength starts to decline, after that point do a few sets or more with light weights like 30%1 rpm even and squeeze the muscle. dont fatigue the muscle with the high reps.
You could eat a jamaican meal and 2 oreo cookies and bench 405 naturally YO
"Muscles grow from increasing strength" EXACTLY! BINGO!
anyone going heavy for a good few years will break down eventualy,, only the young pups are advocating the heavy heavy approach, everyone with a decade of experience under there belt all know that u pick up so many injuries along the way that its no possible to keep on killing your self with huge daft weights...
take the middle road, keep the reps 8 and above at all times, use machines, make the exersize harder by emphasising the negative and squeezing the reps out
anyone going heavy for a good few years will break down eventualy,, only the young pups are advocating the heavy heavy approach, everyone with a decade of experience under there belt all know that u pick up so many injuries along the way that its no possible to keep on killing your self with huge daft weights...
take the middle road, keep the reps 8 and above at all times, use machines, make the exersize harder by emphasising the negative and squeezing the reps out
anyone going heavy for a good few years will break down eventualy,, only the young pups are advocating the heavy heavy approach, everyone with a decade of experience under there belt all know that u pick up so many injuries along the way that its no possible to keep on killing your self with huge daft weights...
take the middle road, keep the reps 8 and above at all times, use machines, make the exersize harder by emphasising the negative and squeezing the reps out
Ok, so you're telling me that if one can go from benching 200 for 6 to benching 400 for 6 that his chest, delts, and tris won't be much, much bigger? lol
I usually train in the pyramid style dropping reps as I add weight each set,then doing a few pump sets at the end of an exercise.
Best of both worlds.
You should go as heavy as you can for the reps you are shooting for whether it be 3 reps or 20 reps.
PERIOD.
LMAO.. "If you do lighter reps you get cut"hahahhahahahahah;D dont forget the timewatch to monitor those 15,23551 seconds of rest between those brutal "sets".
Increase in strength is basically your tendons getting stronger.
My God, what stupid retard nonsense is this? If your tendons get stronger but your muscles don't become bigger, you won't gain strength. Tendons do not contract, genius. What good are tendons that can hoist 100 lbs if the muscles can only contract with a force that hoists 50 lbs? Any strength gains always come with increased neuromuscular effIciency or increased number of sarcomeres. There is nothing else to it. Stronger tendons don't give to you even a single Newton of increased force.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Muscles can get stronger without getting bigger.
Something a lot of people seem to be missing, especially the "STRENGTH = SIZE" proponents is that WORKLOAD is NOT EQUAL to the WEIGHT ON THE BAR!!!Best post in the thread. It's all about how you lift. It's mind boggling to me that people think the only way to make an exercise harder is continually add weight.
Or Branch
Or Ruhl
Or Kahn
Or Fux
Or ......
Allright, so y'all is saying that one can increase the workload without increasing the weight on the bar, so how can this be done, by increasing the number of reps, and thus the length of the set? If that is so, then how's come the most massive runners are the short sprint guys? 100 meters and under. Even the 400 meter guys are quite a bit less muscled than the short sprint guys.
No one can increase their strength forever without hitting a ceiling.
PROGRESSIVE OVERLOAD IS WHAT WORKS.
atleast it does for me i will always train within with 6-10 reps (higher reps not more than 15 for lower body)
PUMP DOES NOT EQUAL MUSCLE GROWTH
Something a lot of people seem to be missing, especially the "STRENGTH = SIZE" proponents is that WORKLOAD is NOT EQUAL to the WEIGHT ON THE BAR!!!
As people keep trying to drill into your brain over and over, it's about HOW YOU LIFT IT. Yes, to get bigger muscles you have to increase the stress on the muscle, but that DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE TO INCREASE THE WEIGHT.
People who have huge quads and squat three plates do it with perfect form, very smooth, controlled, focus on the negative, all this serves to make the muscle work much harder with the fixed resistance (315 lbs). You will see kids all the time throw on 3.5, 4 plates, even more who have gimpy little legs. Some of that is due to neurological efficiency, and some of it is do to SHITTY FORM. Powerlifting form, for bodybuilding purposes, is SHITTY. They do everything in their power to LESSEN THE WORKLOAD on their muscles, so that 900lb squat becomes equivalent to 500 lbs work that the muscle has to do -- they change the leverages, have bad depth, use special suits, distribute the load across as many muscles as possible, etc etc.
When a powerlifter switches over to bodybuilding a la matt kroc, do you see him saying "well gee I've squatted 1013 lbs so I guess to get bigger legs and glutes I need to squat 1015... after all, size = strength right???" NO! He goes down and works with weights in the 400-500 lbs range, changing his form and number of reps so that the MUSCLES have to do the most work, no more utilizing leverage, crappy form, get it up at all cost, mentality, which are all designed to make the resistance on the bar translate into as little muscular work as possible.
So yes, you have to increase the stress on the muscles to make them grow... looking around the gym, i see 99% of kids could use lighter weight and better form to achieve more massive muscles.
In bodybuilding, it's not about how much weight you can lift, it's about how much you can get the weight you are lifting to work for you. Look at ANY big guy in the gym. Perfect form, I guarantee it. Sure there is the occasional Ron Coleman, Branch Warren, total freakish, indestructible joints + they're probably showing off for a video whenever you see them.
In summary: yes you have to increase the workload on the muscles, however in most cases this does not mean increasing the weight on the bar!!!
For the record I put ten pounds on my legs, with extremely noticeable visual changes in 2 months never lifting more than 115 on squats. I did one set for time, 2 minutes the first week, adding 20 seconds to the clock every workout up until about 5 minutes. Followed up with two excruciating sets of leg extensions no more than 135-150lbs and a couple leg curls. Most people would say that wouldn't work. Too many reps, not anaerobic work, wrong energy systems etc. etc... of course they have never tried it for themselves.
LOL @ making lifting weights into rocket science. ;DI try to do from 6.345329-12.4598 reps on all bodyparts. I also have a "log" and bring it with me. Im actually too busy between sets writing on the log so dont you ever bother me. I also make sure to wear a "HIT" t shirt to show that i follow the "principles"...
This is the best post on this discussion by far. End of threadx2 Good post Cephissus
Muscles can get stronger without getting bigger.
This is the best post on this discussion by far. End of thread
Something a lot of people seem to be missing, especially the "STRENGTH = SIZE" proponents is that WORKLOAD is NOT EQUAL to the WEIGHT ON THE BAR!!!
As people keep trying to drill into your brain over and over, it's about HOW YOU LIFT IT. Yes, to get bigger muscles you have to increase the stress on the muscle, but that DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE TO INCREASE THE WEIGHT.
People who have huge quads and squat three plates do it with perfect form, very smooth, controlled, focus on the negative, all this serves to make the muscle work much harder with the fixed resistance (315 lbs). You will see kids all the time throw on 3.5, 4 plates, even more who have gimpy little legs. Some of that is due to neurological efficiency, and some of it is do to SHITTY FORM. Powerlifting form, for bodybuilding purposes, is SHITTY. They do everything in their power to LESSEN THE WORKLOAD on their muscles, so that 900lb squat becomes equivalent to 500 lbs work that the muscle has to do -- they change the leverages, have bad depth, use special suits, distribute the load across as many muscles as possible, etc etc.
When a powerlifter switches over to bodybuilding a la matt kroc, do you see him saying "well gee I've squatted 1013 lbs so I guess to get bigger legs and glutes I need to squat 1015... after all, size = strength right???" NO! He goes down and works with weights in the 400-500 lbs range, changing his form and number of reps so that the MUSCLES have to do the most work, no more utilizing leverage, crappy form, get it up at all cost, mentality, which are all designed to make the resistance on the bar translate into as little muscular work as possible.
So yes, you have to increase the stress on the muscles to make them grow... looking around the gym, i see 99% of kids could use lighter weight and better form to achieve more massive muscles.
In bodybuilding, it's not about how much weight you can lift, it's about how much you can get the weight you are lifting to work for you. Look at ANY big guy in the gym. Perfect form, I guarantee it. Sure there is the occasional Ron Coleman, Branch Warren, total freakish, indestructible joints + they're probably showing off for a video whenever you see them.
In summary: yes you have to increase the workload on the muscles, however in most cases this does not mean increasing the weight on the bar!!!
For the record I put ten pounds on my legs, with extremely noticeable visual changes in 2 months never lifting more than 115 on squats. I did one set for time, 2 minutes the first week, adding 20 seconds to the clock every workout up until about 5 minutes. Followed up with two excruciating sets of leg extensions no more than 135-150lbs and a couple leg curls. Most people would say that wouldn't work. Too many reps, not anaerobic work, wrong energy systems etc. etc... of course they have never tried it for themselves.
Super heavy = muscle tear FACT ;)
LOL @ making lifting weights into rocket science. ;D
I said that muscles can become stronger either by increasing the number of sarcomeres(size of the muscle) or the ability to recruit sarcomeres(neuromuscular efficiency). You said strength gains come mostly from increased tendom strength. You: 100% wrong.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
This is the best post on this discussion by far. End of thread
If two people of equal strength do the same exact workout, using the same exact poundages, for the same exact amount of reps,but it takes one guy two hours to complete,and the other guy only 45 minutes to complete,who trained harder?pre exaust, drop sets, and other fatigue-ing methods can be beneficial. but you still have to have to use heavier weights after a while or else youll adapt and wont grow anymore.
More work done in less time = intensity of effort............. and using intensity techniques such as pre-exhaust,drop-sets,super-sets,tri-sets,etc.etc.,and a good mind muscle connection =a far better way to train than to just simply slap more plates on the bar.
No one can increase their strength forever without hitting a ceiling.
strength does not = size,,
strength with enough hormones also does not equal size,,
stimulation of the muscle = size
get it in your head,,
never the less,, if you can stimulate your muscle by lifting heavy ass weight then your size and strength will go hand in hand
i keep tellin you over andover,,you can build the best chest in the city by simply work on a hammer with out evere touching free weight,,its all in the muscle stimulation and tension with its respond to the drugs and DOSES you are on
gh15 approved
stimulation of the muscle = size
sure, you can build up any muscle on machines. and yes, tension is important. but even on tons of gear and using machines and putting alot of tension on the muscle.. gowth will stop happening if the weight isnt increasing over time.
A bench shirt acts as 'extra tendons'.
Give it up... you haven’t lived long enough to know what you’re talking about.::) broseph your a perfect example of why lifting heavy is necessary.. durign all your years of training and during all your cycles you never built any size, all you ever did was shape your body. sure, the general public would look at a picture of you on one of your cycles and think "bodybuilder" because you had alot of muscle definiton everywhere, but in the world of bodybuilders you never had any size and that is what bodybuilding is about-size. big weights are a prerequisite to size
::) broseph your a perfect example of why lifting heavy is necessary.. durign all your years of training and during all your cycles you never built any size, all you ever did was shape your body. sure, the general public would look at a picture of you on one of your cycles and think "bodybuilder" because you had alot of muscle definiton everywhere, but in the world of bodybuilders you never had any size and that is what bodybuilding is about-size. big weights are a prerequisite to size
No, it doesen't. A benching shirt restricts the movement range of your muscles and support them, thus eliminating the need for neuromuscular coordination and mobilization of auxiliary muscles to lift the weight. Thus, it increases your strength by increasing your neuromuscular efficiency. A benching shirt works nothing like stronger tendons. You: 100% wrong. Again.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
You are wrong.
You are wrong.
haha you are going to give the poor lad a heart attack :)
Tbombz. I don't really think some converted fat kid, who only even looks like he touches a weight is because he megadoses and shoots up seo's like the sun isn't going to rise tommorrow, is an authority on training. ;)
Tbombz. I don't really think some converted fat kid, who only even looks like he touches a weight is because he megadoses and shoots up seo's like the sun isn't going to rise tommorrow, is an authority on training. ;)
You are saying nothing revolutionary here.
I personally like to pyramid to cover both bases.
The stupidity of the people here is truly awesome. From claiming that strength comes from stronger tendons to that a benching shirt increases your bench by working as artificial tendons, the stupidity is truly epic. They should call the Guiness people so they can read the dumbest people on Earth giving their opinions on things and then publish them on the Guiness on "most stupid" category lol....
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Explain why.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
The strength of a muscle is in a direct correlation with its size ie. A bigger muscle IS a stronger muscle and a stronger muscle IS a bigger muscle.
Actually, you can only fairly compare one man to only himself, so it is literally impossible for the same man to get bigger muscles while simultaneously making his muscles weaker, this is just impossible and it could NEVER, EVER happen. If his muscle gets weaker, IT WILL GET SMALLER. No other way around it.
yes, "lol" indeed.
Mayhap their mirth is directed on yonders tempestuous and thunderous epic self ownage. ;)
What self-ownage, you moron? When have I got owned? Point that out to me? I am waiting....
He said that a benching shirt increases strength by acting like stronger tendons. I have already explained why this is wrong. It is 100% wrong.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
They were designed originally to protect people who had injured muscles. They also made people lift more.
They were designed originally to protect people who had injured muscles. They also made people lift more.
So what? How does this prove they work like tendons?
nahhe is correct and so are you. they arent contradictory.
you could take two identical clones and train and drug them in such a manner that the larger, more muscular one would actually be weaker than the other one
;)
When you get hurt, its your tendons on your muscles that gets hurt. the bench shurt wurks like tendons to make you strong again
So what? How does this prove they work like tendons?
Listen...the benching shirt increases your strength by restricting the movement of your arms.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
No, it makes you stronger by restricting your plane of movement, which decreases the need for balancing the weight and higher neuromuscular coordination. It works nothing like a tendon.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Fucking idiot alert!!!!!!!!!
Lol...meltdown. ;)Lol......idiot. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Lol......idiot. ;)
chaos
I am right. You guys are wrong. That is it.This is why you are an idiot.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
You still haven't elucidated why I am an idiot.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
This is why you are an idiot.
Yes, I am an idiot because everything I write is true and everything you guys write is wrong. Great logic there. What does that make you ???Do you read what you write and actually think that you are correct and the rest of us are wrong?
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Do you read what you write and actually think that you are correct and the rest of us are wrong?
Do you really believe that?
Yes, I believe that. I know exactly how a benching shirt works and I have explained it. you just can't handle the fact that I am always correct. :)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
you just can't handle the fact that I am always correct. :)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Who's gimmick?
Lovely troll.
You noob piece of shit
try to understand that I am way above you in the Getbig pecking order. Way above. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
craig titus pec tearNo one knows what Titus could do, but we do know Titus was scared to not just bench again, but to even train his chest, he had the shittiest chest of any pro, including Priest (excluding Jocelyn P).
levrone pec tear
both could bench over 500 pounds raw... what do they have in common? Extremely powerful mucles with small joints and bone structure not made to lift big weghts.