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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: andreisdaman on February 15, 2011, 12:10:37 PM
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There you have it.....John Boehner, Republican House Speaker commented yesterday that according to Hawaii, Obama is a United States citizen and this is good enough for him....he further stated that in his opinion, Obama handled the Egyptian uprising in an appropriate manner....
3333, your own man says this .....If you haven't done so already, PLEASE KILL YOURSELF AND STOP IT WITH THESE STUPID NONSENSE THREADS about Obama's supposed incompetence!!!
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Uh, I don't think 333 cares for Boehner either, chief.
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coach is on suicide watch as we speak
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Uh, I don't think 333 cares for Boehner either, chief.
Oh, but I do think he does. Its doubtful he`d pass one up on an idle Tuesday after lunch.
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Uh, I don't think 333 cares for Boehner either, chief.
He's a loon, and that's pretty amazing considering some the characters in these parts.
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Boehner is going to choose his battles wisely
the calm before the storm my friend, the calm before the storm
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Was Boner crying when he gave the statement?
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Obama took a trip to bangladesh with his dog and spent $14,098,923,763,923.97 of taxpayer money according to MSNBC
Obamacare will cost 6,900,159,719 jobs in America alone according to CNN
Obama is ruining the world and these facts prove it.
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I don't see the big deal. Obama did a "good job" because he hardly did anything and when he did, they just basically told him to go f**k himself and stay out of it. Obama just failed.....again!
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Quote from Obama: "I support Mubarak and his regime, I plan to apply his concept to the American people as it goes well with my muslim agenda" -this morning on QVC
there you have it, straight from the horses mouth. definatly out to ruin america.
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Quote from Obama: "I support Mubarak and his regime, I plan to apply his concept to the American people as it goes well with my muslim agenda" -this morning on QVC
there you have it, straight from the horses mouth. definatly out to ruin america.
Damn, did he really say that out loud?
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Wow you guys have like 30 jobs each? :o
its the american way ;)
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Obama didnt handle shit. Please, you fools are desperate to latch on to anything, just anything, to make this collosal failure look good.
Every single thing this faux messiah has touched has gotten far worse.
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The Speaker of the GOP lead House says otherwise.
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The Speaker of the GOP lead House says otherwise.
So? I could care less what boehner says. He is too slick x 10 for my tastes. Compared to that communist bitch Pelosi he is a major improvement, but I dont give a rats ass what he says.
Again, Ferguson, world respected historian and economist tells it clearly, even for obama dildos like yourself:
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Boehner drinks a lotta merlot. I like that about him.
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Ferguson confirms what Trump has been saying, this admn is laughed at by the world and by world leaders.
But oh yeah, andreisabitch, TA, lurker, Benny, and the rest of Team Kneepad know better. ::) ::)
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Changing your opinion up to 2x a day does not equal handing a crisis well. Boehner is as big of a douche as Obama is.
Obama handled this entire event like the novice, inexperienced moron that he is. It was truly embarrassing.
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I'm just happy Boehnner didn't burst into tears.
when barbara bush is ripping on him for it in interviews, it's time to man the fck up. if obama broke into tears in every 3rd interview, he'd never hear the end of it.
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Changing your opinion up to 2x a day does not equal handing a crisis well. Boehner is as big of a douche as Obama is.
Obama handled this entire event like the novice, inexperienced moron that he is. It was truly embarrassing.
;D ;D
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"We hate Israel, U.S., UK, Germany, and need to detroy Israel"
Yeah, fucking brilliant foreign policy. ::) ::)
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Ha ha ha - CNN begged a street protestor to praise Obama nd even the street protestor said Obama is complete joke and failure.
But oh that's right - andreisadildo, TA, benny, and the rest of the obama Jim Jones cult know better. ::) ::)
Audio at site of protestor claiming Obama has no policy at all and is a conflicting mess of empty statements and had NOTHING to d with anything.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Dji6Th1fysgJ:www.eyeblast.tv/Public/checker.aspx%3Fv%3DhdqGSUSUqG+nic+robertson+obama+egypt&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com
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see, you can get some ass clown on the streets to say anything. I saw protesters on msnbc saying it was about poverty, and they could care less about the USA. on fox, they had protesters blaming obama. Really, you can find a protester that blames twinkie filling, if you look long enough or ask the right question.
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see, you can get some ass clown on the streets to say anything. I saw protesters on msnbc saying it was about poverty, and they could care less about the USA. on fox, they had protesters blaming obama. Really, you can find a protester that blames twinkie filling, if you look long enough or ask the right question.
The simple fact is the media was trying to make this out to be about Obama, just look at the questions they were asking.
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see, you can get some ass clown on the streets to say anything. I saw protesters on msnbc saying it was about poverty, and they could care less about the USA. on fox, they had protesters blaming obama. Really, you can find a protester that blames twinkie filling, if you look long enough or ask the right question.
It was CNN who was trying to kneepad obama like you do dail. The two different protestors the CNN anchor tried to get to say good things about Obama said the same thing - that obama is an ass - sorry it conflicts with your messiah worship.
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The simple fact is the media was trying to make this out to be about Obama, just look at the questions they were asking.
240 never misses a chance to try to make it about Bush, 911, Sarah, or Fox News to deflect from his messiah worship of Obama.
The CNN clip I posted was xlear as day - the reporter asked directly about obama - and they said the same exact thing as Ferguson said - Obama is a disjointed incoherent mess and did not do a damn thing to spur this on, and if anything showed support for Mubarak over them.
But don't let reality get in the way of 240 or the others worshipping obama.
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Yeah - fucking brilliant strategy ::) ::) ::)
________________________ ________________
U.S. Had Year of Warnings Over Egypt
WSJ ^ | 2/16/2011 | Jay Solomon
________________________ ____________
WASHINGTON—Early last year, a group of U.S.-based human-rights activists, neoconservative policy makers and Mideast experts told Secretary of State Hillary Clinton that what passed for calm in Egypt was an illusion.
"If the opportunity to reform is missed, prospects for stability and prosperity in Egypt will be in doubt," read their April 2010 letter.
The correspondence was part of a string of warnings passed to the Obama administration arguing that Egypt, heading toward crisis, required a vigorous U.S. response. Hosni Mubarak, Egypt's 82-year-old dictator, was moving to rig a string of elections, they said. Egypt's young population was growing more agitated.
The bipartisan body that wrote to Mrs. Clinton, the Egypt Working Group, argued that the administration wasn't fully appraising the warning signs in Egypt. Its members came together in early 2010, concerned that the Arab world's biggest country was headed for transition but that the U.S. and others weren't preparing for a post-Mubarak era.
The Cairo uprising has so far had a more orderly outcome, and one better for U.S. interests, than might have been the case. But the U.S.'s hesitant initial embrace of the revolt could reverberate as a democratic wave surges across the Arab world. The U.S. at first alienated protesters—and then alienated the Mubarak regime, a longtime ally, sparking concern from other regional friends.
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
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Ha ha ha - CNN begged a street protestor to praise Obama nd even the street protestor said Obama is complete joke and failure.
But oh that's right - andreisadildo, TA, benny, and the rest of the obama Jim Jones cult know better. ::) ::)
Audio at site of protestor claiming Obama has no policy at all and is a conflicting mess of empty statements and had NOTHING to d with anything.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Dji6Th1fysgJ:www.eyeblast.tv/Public/checker.aspx%3Fv%3DhdqGSUSUqG+nic+robertson+obama+egypt&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com
HEHEHEH! No one can spin it better than the liberal media.
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240 never misses a chance to try to make it about Bush, 911, Sarah, or Fox News to deflect from his messiah worship of Obama.
The CNN clip I posted was xlear as day - the reporter asked directly about obama - and they said the same exact thing as Ferguson said - Obama is a disjointed incoherent mess and did not do a damn thing to spur this on, and if anything showed support for Mubarak over them.
But don't let reality get in the way of 240 or the others worshipping obama.
In other words.......(the unofficial-official TK theme song)
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Victor Davis Hanson: A New America in a New World Order
NATIONAL REVIEW ONLINE ^ | February 16, 2011 | Victor Davis Hanson
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A New America in a New World Order
Obama's vision of sameness — at home, equality of result; abroad, all nations equal — carries an appalling price tag.
The year is quite young, and yet it has already seen a multitude of disturbing events and trends — unrest in Cairo and North Africa; nuclearization in Iran; a growing anti-American alliance among Turkey, Hezbollah, Iran, and Syria; the expansionary designs of a newly unabashed China with attendant repercussions on Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan; calls for the end of the dollar as the global currency; the muscle flexing from an “I can’t believe my good luck” Russia; and the tottering of the European Union. I have no idea how most Americans react to any of the above, and I don’t think the administration has either.
We do know that President Obama wants to borrow another $1.6 trillion this year to ensure expansion of EU-like entitlements. One mystery is why the Chinese — 400 million of whom have never encountered Western-style medicine — apparently won’t mind lending us more of their hundreds of billions of dollars in surpluses to fund Obamacare. Another is why people should risk their environments in Africa, the Russian Arctic, and Asian coastal waters to provide petroleum for a thirsty planet, while we will not take much smaller risks to satisfy our own voracious oil appetite. The only common denominator is our desire to consume more than we produce.
Yet the impending crises on the horizon — so reminiscent of the annus horribilis of 1979, when the wages of another American president’s sermonizing and economic weakness came due — are not foreordained to come at America’s expense. Were we to put our financial house in order, slash our deficits, show the world how we intend to pay down our $14 trillion debt, and make the needed long-term reforms to Social Security and Medicare, the United States would be in a unique position in comparison to an ailing and sclerotic Europe, a demographically challenged Japan, and a China with a rendezvous with social tension, environmental catastrophe, and a warped demography. We are still a more open and transparent society than our rivals — with a more meritocratic ethos, far greater social and political stability, and blessed with vast natural and human resources. Why, then, cannot we regain our exceptionalism?
In a word, I think we do not wish to. The problem — aside from the fact that we are a country obsessed with wrangling over distribution of old wealth (much of it provided by previous generations) rather than creation of new national riches — is that the United States does not quite know what its role should be in yet another new world order.
Hence, President Obama was a day late and a dollar short in figuring out both the Tehran 2009 and the Cairo 2011 protests. Like a modern-day Hamlet, he paused to examine every imaginable consequence before doing nothing — as in “Should I criticize Ahmadinejad when I promised in landmark fashion to meet face to face with the Iranians? Where is the U.N. in all of this? If I encourage the protesters, am I interfering in the internal affairs of Iran — the way America did a half century ago, for which I just apologized? If I support democratic reform, will I appear no different from a Bush neocon? Will Mubarak survive or will he not? Should he, or should he not? Are the protesters authentic Egyptians or Westernized upper middle classes without Third World bona fides? Are they Kerensky types about to be swallowed up by hard-core Islamists? Could my own unique heritage not appeal to the Muslim Brotherhood as I was hoping it would when I reached out to Iran and Syria? If I pressure Mubarak, will the Right ask why I did not pressure Ahmadinejad? If I do not, will the Left accuse me of realpolitik? Isn’t Bush at fault somewhere here?” So many questions, so many occasions to vote present.
The reset “I’m not Bush” Pavlovian foreign policy is in shambles. There comes a moment in which a trivial event finally distills chaos into clarity. In the Obama administration’s case, it was the description of the Muslim Brotherhood by the director of national intelligence, James Clapper, who just assured Capitol Hill that the Brotherhood was “largely secular” and has “eschewed violence.” Keep that inanity in mind, and almost everything else becomes clear. Add “Muslim” to “Brotherhood” and these days you get “largely secular.”
The euphemisms for terrorism have become a late-night-show running joke; more, not fewer, terrorist plots directed at the U.S. have answered Obama’s Muslim outreach efforts. It is by now about as likely that Eric Holder will try KSM in a New York federal court as that Obama himself will close down Guantanamo, which he earlier described as “a tremendous recruiting tool for al-Qaeda.” The one Obama success (in Joe Biden’s words, the administration’s “greatest achievement”) was a still-constitutional Iraq — only because Obama dropped his own campaign promises on unilateral withdrawals and stuck to the Bush-Petraeus departure plans.
A strengthened U.S. role in the U.N. has come to nothing. Did we gain anything by humiliating Israel in 2009? Are Venezuela and its axis moderating their efforts to turn Latin America into a Marxist utopia? Has America ever before joined Mexico — or any other foreign government – in efforts to sue one of its own states that simply wanted federal law enforced? Was Russia really all that eager to help an appeasing U.S. diplomatically? When the U.S. provided serial numbers of British nuclear weapons to Putin’s Russia, and when Europeans like Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy have to lecture the West about the failures of multiculturalism, we are reminded that the Europeans should have been careful of what they so loudly wished for during the 2008 presidential campaign.
Are we inept or calculating in piling up over $4 trillion in debt in just 36 months and lowering America’s global profile? If the goal of the present American administration is to turn the United States into something envisioned on university campuses, the editorial page of the New York Times, and breezy synopses on NPR, then it is right on schedule. But what would that new America look like?
An enormous public sector, guided by an elite European-like technocracy overseeing henchmen in public unions, would ensure spread-the-wealth redistribution, more regulation, and an ideology of equality of result that reminds us that at some point (the new financial Mason-Dixon line of $250,000 in annual income?), we have made enough money at someone else’s expense. Abroad, it might mean a new America analogous to France or Germany, which from time to time would chest-pound about current crises, but would risk nothing while calibrating the post-facto humanitarian rhetoric to match realities on the ground.
In sum, just as we are to be all equal at home, so abroad all nations are to be equal as well — if not by fiat, at least by wish. Sameness, here and abroad — that is the new national aspiration.
— NRO contributor Victor Davis Hanson is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, the editor of Makers of Ancient Strategy: From the Persian Wars to the Fall of Rome, and the author of The Father of Us All: War and History, Ancient and Modern.
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Obama didnt handle shit. Please, you fools are desperate to latch on to anything, just anything, to make this collosal failure look good.
Every single thing this faux messiah has touched has gotten far worse.
OK..so you calling Boehner a liar???
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Yes.
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Changing your opinion up to 2x a day does not equal handing a crisis well. Boehner is as big of a douche as Obama is.
Obama handled this entire event like the novice, inexperienced moron that he is. It was truly embarrassing.
I like how when Boehner is ripping Obama a new asshole everyone quotes him and says he's right././.now that he's saying Obama did something right and is a citizen, NOW all of a sudden he doesn't know what he is talking about and you guys rip into him..WOW..can't you guys see the hypocrisy in yourselves?????
AMAZING!!!!!!!
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Bohner is not our spokesperson.
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I like how when Boehner is ripping Obama a new asshole everyone quotes him and says he's right././.now that he's saying Obama did something right and is a citizen, NOW all of a sudden he doesn't know what he is talking about and you guys rip into him..WOW..can't you guys see the hypocrisy in yourselves?????
AMAZING!!!!!!!
Our hypocrisy? Since when has Boehner ever spoken for me? I dislike that c*nt as much as I dislike Obama's suicidal economic policies. And pot meet kettle. You clowns attack him at all times and then the one time he agrees with the Messiah, he's apparently worth listening to. ::)
It is DOCUMENTED that Obama and his cronies were flip-flopping up to 2x a DAY on the Egypt crisis. They handled it so poorly it's embarrassing. Was once again amateur hour on the foreign policy stage.
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Boehner on his own is a clown - but compared to pelosi he is a n
Major improvment.
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Our hypocrisy? Since when has Boehner ever spoken for me? I dislike that c*nt as much as I dislike Obama's suicidal economic policies. And pot meet kettle. You clowns attack him at all times and then the one time he agrees with the Messiah, he's apparently worth listening to. ::)
It is DOCUMENTED that Obama and his cronies were flip-flopping up to 2x a DAY on the Egypt crisis. They handled it so poorly it's embarrassing. Was once again amateur hour on the foreign policy stage.
Mubarak has to go NOW, no no no, He can stay for another six months.
Then, The Muslim Brotherhood is "largely secular", no no no, I meant they're religious but they work sort of secular.
And, the hits keep coming.
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Obama took a trip to bangladesh with his dog and spent $14,098,923,763,923.97 of taxpayer money according to MSNBC
Obamacare will cost 6,900,159,719 jobs in America alone according to CNN
Obama is ruining the world and these facts prove it.
LMAO...finally some sanity on here
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CBO already said Obamacare will cost 800,000 jobs.
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CBO already said Obamacare will cost 800,000 jobs.
But when they said it was defecit neutral you said bullshit.. the same department says its bad.. and now they are authentic...
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When will people realize that Obamacare has been ruled unconstitutional, no longer the law, unless the SC otherwise.
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CBO already said Obamacare will cost 800,000 jobs.
CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf told the House Budget Committee on Thursday that the health care law will reduce employment by 0.5 percent by 2021 because some people will no longer have to work just to afford health insurance.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/49273.html#ixzz1EEVOEdSb
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::) ::) - great more people on the doll collecting welfare and a smaller laborpool to pay the taxes. Just what you libs want.
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::) ::) - great more people on the doll collecting welfare and a smaller laborpool to pay the taxes. Just what you libs want.
or in reality
people who can choose to leave their job or work less because affordable health care is not tied to their job
I think if you took the time to learn more about these things you wouldn't have to live in a constant state of panic
just some friendly advice
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or in reality
people who can choose to leave their job or work less because affordable health care is not tied to their job
I think if you took the time to learn more about these things you wouldn't have to live is a constant state of panic
just from friendly advice
Hey stupid - who is goig to pay all the taxes to support the baby boomers if less people are working and more are on welfare?
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Hey stupid - who is goig to pay all the taxes to support the baby boomers if less people are working and more are on welfare?
OMG - great point - we need to keep these people indentured to their employer by virtue of health care so they can continue to pay taxes
OMG - let's start panicking now !!!!
CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf told the House Budget Committee on Thursday that the health care law will reduce employment by 0.5 percent by 2021 because some people will no longer have to work just to afford health insurance.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/49273.html#ixzz1EEVOEdSb
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Just great - so let these people stay home and stick others w the tab. Fucking brilliant economics right there.
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Just great - so let these people stay home and stick others w the tab. Fucking brilliant economics right there.
how are they going to stick others with any tab
they still have to pay for their health insurance
they just don't have to continue working in order to get access to affordable insurance
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They will be getting subsidy checks from the gubmint.
Again - you support a policy you don't even know how it works.
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They will be getting subsidy checks from the gubmint.
Again - you support a policy you don't even know how it works.
you don't know that at all
some may qualify for a subsidy but so what
maybe they are so fucking sick that they need to stay home
we're talking about a projected .5% of the workforce and by the year 2021
won't we be "collapsed" by then anyway?
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We need to decide who is a credible source and who is not.
That author that trashed obama was a weirdo nutjob when he had big Qs about 911, five years ago. But suddenly he's of sane mind and reliable source when trashing obama in a book.
CBO's numbers during Bush's years were right on... and they're right on when they expose obamacare as a fraud... but they're bullshit when obama cites them to show improvement in the economy.
Just tell us what's a good source and what isn't.... you can't diss a source you use on your own quite frequently ;)
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What the clip from ferguson?
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CBO already said Obamacare will cost 800,000 jobs.
Uh, thats over 10 years and do you know why? Those 800,000 jobs are ONLY worked FOR health insurance. Thats the only reason why these people show up as they need health insurance because our crappy system ties it in with employment.
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Uh, thats over 10 years and do you know why? Those 800,000 jobs are ONLY worked FOR health insurance. Thats the only reason why these people show up as they need health insurance because our crappy system ties it in with employment.
LOL youre still going to have to PAY for it dumb ass...you cant pay for it without money which you get from a job...
Kinda like now, you can go out and buy independent health insurance but you still need money to do so...
kinda shoots a hole in that theory of yours doesnt it?
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Uh, thats over 10 years and do you know why? Those 800,000 jobs are ONLY worked FOR health insurance. Thats the only reason why these people show up as they need health insurance because our crappy system ties it in with employment.
he knows why
I told him on the second page of this thread and even gave him the actual quote from the CBO director
it doesn't really make any difference to him
he wants to be angry and panicked and that's all that matters
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So what? Why should other people pay for them?
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So what? Why should other people pay for them?
There should be a single Payer system and anyone who is dumb enough to want Private Insurance still has the ability to buy it in addition to having entire coverage. We accomplish this easily by stopping some of our wars and slashing the bloated defense budget.
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LOL youre still going to have to PAY for it dumb ass...you cant pay for it without money which you get from a job...
Kinda like now, you can go out and buy independent health insurance but you still need money to do so...
kinda shoots a hole in that theory of yours doesnt it?
At least nobody has to pay for you since you don`t even have Health Insurance.
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So what? Why should other people pay for them?
There should be a single Payer system and anyone who is dumb enough to want Private Insurance still has the ability to buy it in addition to having entire coverage. We accomplish this easily by stopping some of our wars and slashing the bloated defense budget.
The majority of Americans have AND ARE QUITE HAPPY with private insurance. That's why ObamaCare has to have that stupid mandate, because few will buy into this debacle, unless they are forced to do so.
Our military has already been gutted as it is. What's bloated are all these entitlement programs. That's what needs to be slashed and that will get slashed once we get rid of Obama and the Dems in the Senate.
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The majority of Americans have AND ARE QUITE HAPPY with private insurance. That's why ObamaCare has to have that stupid mandate, because few will buy into this debacle, unless they are forced to do so.
Our military has already been gutted as it is. What's bloated are all these entitlement programs. That's what needs to be slashed and that will get slashed once we get rid of Obama and the Dems in the Senate.
The current healthcare plan is just a continuation of what we already have so don`t even compare it to a single payer system.
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At least nobody has to pay for you since you don`t even have Health Insurance.
LOL as a matter of fact I do now, and like ive said on here before when i didnt i paid for my medical expenses out of pocket including an emergency root canal that cost about 1500 all in all....
its that whole personal responsibility thing that ive talked about on here from time to time ;)
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The current healthcare plan is just a continuation of what we already have so don`t even compare it to a single payer system.
LOL not its not dumb ass, we have a choice now...
where is the choice in obamacare?
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LOL as a matter of fact I do now, and like ive said on here before when i didnt i paid for my medical expenses out of pocket including an emergency root canal that cost about 1500 all in all....
its that whole personal responsibility thing that ive talked about on here from time to time ;)
ROFLMAO@ 1500 dollars. You got taken for a ride. You must have one shitty dentist. Thats just pathetic.
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LOL not its not dumb ass, we have a choice now...
where is the choice in obamacare?
What are you talking about? EVERY SINGLE Insurance company that existed 5 years ago is still with us today. You can go to any one of them if you like. The current healthcare plan is a Republican Wet dream (it sucks and does nothing but support the Health Insurance Industry) , more conservative than Bob Dole`s plan.
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ROFLMAO@ 1500 dollars. You got taken for a ride. You must have one shitty dentist. Thats just pathetic.
LOL thats all in all which included the original docters visit, the root canal itself, crown and a cleaning...
and just so you know brain child...the average cost for a root canal for a molar which is what mine is about 800 dollars just for the root canal with no crown...LMAO
fuking idiot!!!
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LOL as a matter of fact I do now, and like ive said on here before when i didnt i paid for my medical expenses out of pocket including an emergency root canal that cost about 1500 all in all....
its that whole personal responsibility thing that ive talked about on here from time to time ;)
I still don`t believe you have any health insurance whatsoever. If you do have any, its the mandatory that your University sometimes will provide or that you must have in order to enroll.
YOU did not go out and seek any and YOU did not go out and purchase any.
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At least you libs are now open about your welfare for all - work for none policies and desires.
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What are you talking about? EVERY SINGLE Insurance company that existed 5 years ago is still with us today. You can go to any one of them if you like. The current healthcare plan is a Republican Wet dream (it sucks and does nothing but support the Health Insurance Industry) , more conservative than Bob Dole`s plan.
Answer the question dumb ass...
where is the choice in obamacare?
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Answer the question dumb ass...
where is the choice in obamacare?
I did rotten tooth. You have the SAME CHOICES you did 5 years ago as THE SAME Health Insurance companies exist currently when one goes to purchase Health Insurance. The only difference are that you cannot be denied Health Insurance and it is a little bit cheaper in some instances. Nothing really has changed at all.
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I still don`t believe you have any health insurance whatsoever. If you do have any, its the mandatory that your University sometimes will provide or that you must have in order to enroll.
YOU did not go out and seek any and YOU did not go out and purchase any.
LOL comes with a full time job, not that you know anything about full time jobs...;)
no university ive ever attended forced insurance on you or required you have any...they offered some basic health coverage for students but you had to pay...but this makes sense why you feel ok with obamacare if youve been forced to have health insurance before
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I did rotten tooth. You have the SAME CHOICE you did 5 years ago when it comes to buying Health Insurance. The only difference are that you cannot be denied Health Insurance and it is a little bit cheaper in some instances. Nothing really has changed at all.
NO you dont, now youre forced to buy health insurance before you could have gone without it...
LOL cheaper in some instances? please give me these instances...
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LOL comes with a full time job, not that you know anything about full time jobs...;)
no university ive ever attended forced insurance on you or required you have any...they offered some basic health coverage for students but you had to pay...but this makes sense why you feel ok with obamacare if youve been forced to have health insurance before
I don`t support the current Healthcare plant at all. Not one bit. I still don`t believe you have a job or health insurance. ;) Where do you work?
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The current healthcare plan is just a continuation of what we already have so don`t even compare it to a single payer system.
ObamaCare is a de facto single payer, as its goal is to put all private insurance companies OUT OF BUSINESS, leaving government-run health insurance as the only game in town. If you don't believe me, ask Bernie Sanders, the "independent" senator from Vermont.
That's why Dennis Kucinich, who was supposed to hold out his vote for ObamaCare until the public option was available, eventually cracked.
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NO you dont, now youre forced to buy health insurance before you could have gone without it...
LOL cheaper in some instances? please give me these instances...
You can still go without Health Insurance. They claim that you will have to pay a fine in order to do so. I doubt they will be able to collect anything. I wouldn`t pay any fine. Not one red cent. I would NEVER yield to such demands, bit its comforting to know that you would.
Cheaper in that 5 years ago if you had Lung Cancer and wanted to sign up for Health Insurance, you WOULD BE DENIED, thus ALL of your treatment would be out of pocket. Now, that same Cancer patient CANNOT BE DENIED and therefore will not incur a total out of pocket expense.
That is one of many instances of how it is not cheaper for some.
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NO you dont, now youre forced to buy health insurance before you could have gone without it...
Plus, you get charged for crap you don't need (i.e. smoking cessation classes, even though YOU don't smoke).
Did I mention those death panels....ahem....."end-of-life counseling".
LOL cheaper in some instances? please give me these instances...
Hasn't the average insurance rates gone up some $1200 since ObamaCare got passed?
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I don`t support the current Healthcare plant at all. Not one bit. I still don`t believe you have a job or health insurance. ;) Where do you work?
LOL like i give a shit what a gimmick on the internet thinks of me...
Ive been working for a bank but I just got a new job as an analyst for a local company here in houston...you think im going to give you the name so your idiot ass can call up and harrass ppl b/c you have nothing better to do with your time? LMAO
where do you work? and when are you going to pm ron to see if he will ip ban us if we dont post videos?
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You can still go without Health Insurance. They claim that you will have to pay a fine in order to do so. I doubt they will be able to collect anything. I wouldn`t pay any fine. Not one red cent. I would NEVER yield to such demands, bit its comforting to know that you would.
Cheaper in that 5 years ago if you had Lung Cancer and wanted to sign up for Health Insurance, you WOULD BE DENIED, thus ALL of your treatment would be out of pocket. Now, that same Cancer patient CANNOT BE DENIED and therefore will not incur a total out of pocket expense.
That is one of many instances of how it is not cheaper for some.
He wouldn't be denied. Some company would take him; it would just charge him out the wazoo to do it.
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He wouldn't be denied. Some company would take him; it would just charge him out the wazoo to do it.
yup and take into account that now he is paying a penalty for not having insurance during those 5 years it isnt really any cheaper...
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ObamaCare is a de facto single payer, as its goal is to put all private insurance companies OUT OF BUSINESS, leaving government-run health insurance as the only game in town. If you don't believe me, ask Bernie Sanders, the "independent" senator from Vermont.
That's why Dennis Kucinich, who was supposed to hold out his vote for ObamaCare until the public option was available, eventually cracked.
Nope. This plan has only emboldened the Private Health Insurance Industry as their stocks have done EXTREMELY well since the bills passage. Bernie Sanders, like myself and like Dennis want to dismantle the Private Health Industry where it only become optional and not necessary. Obama`s plan DOES NOT DO THIS WHATSOEVER.
They both only voted for it because it eliminated Pre-Existing conditions and it allowed for the creation of a few community clinics that WILL save lives. They both CANNOT STAND Obama`s plan, but they both know that it will save lives and that if it did not pass, people would have died who otherwise could have been saved.
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He wouldn't be denied. Some company would take him; it would just charge him out the wazoo to do it.
Not true at all. When I worked for United Healthcare, I saw denials every single day. This then would flag the patient so that any other Insurance company could pull this type of information. I would follow back up on some cases and see that people that I had spoken with just 2 months prior, suffered and died when they clearly could have at least lived a year to two longer. Its one of the sickest things I have and probably will ever see.
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Not true at all. When I worked for United Healthcare, I saw denials every single day. This then would flag the patient so that any other Insurance company could pull this type of information. I would follow back up on some cases and see that people that I had spoken with just 2 months prior, suffered and died when they clearly could have at least lived a year to two longer. Its one of the sickest things I have and probably will ever see.
LOL bull shit...you never even had a job
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Not true at all. When I worked for United Healthcare, I saw denials every single day. This then would flag the patient so that any other Insurance company could pull this type of information. I would follow back up on some cases and see that people that I had spoken with just 2 months prior, suffered and died when they clearly could have at least lived a year to two longer. Its one of the sickest things I have and probably will ever see.
Those would be denials by UNITED HEALTHCARE. How does that translate into another company not taking that same guy with lung cancer (if the price is right, that is)?
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Nope. This plan has only emboldened the Private Health Insurance Industry as their stocks have done EXTREMELY well since the bills passage. Bernie Sanders, like myself and like Dennis want to dismantle the Private Health Industry where it only become optional and not necessary. Obama`s plan DOES NOT DO THIS WHATSOEVER.
They both only voted for it because it eliminated Pre-Existing conditions and it allowed for the creation of a few community clinics that WILL save lives. They both CANNOT STAND Obama`s plan, but they both know that it will save lives and that if it did not pass, people would have died who otherwise could have been saved.
Of course their stocks have done well. If you knew you were going to be put out of business in 3-4 years, you would bleed as much out of your customers as you could, before you closed your doors.
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Those would be denials by UNITED HEALTHCARE. How does that translate into another company not taking that same guy with lung cancer (if the price is right, that is)?
Because, as I said, I was able to see other service denials from other companies as that information was shared and most patients that were denied by United had a folder FULL OF DENIALS from every single Insurance company they tried. It was horrible. People died and suffered all because a company wanted to make a profit by denying Healthcare to those in dire need of it.
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Of course their stocks have done well. If you knew you were going to be put out of business in 3-4 years, you would bleed as much out of your customers as you could, before you closed your doors.
Thats not even close to happening as the current plan (Which is also a Private Health Insurance Wet Dream) is to stand for a decade minimum and beyond.
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company here in houston...you think im going to give you the
Are you a fat ass.. most people in houston are fat asses
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'Offended Mubarak refuses phone call from Obama'
Jerusalem Post ^ | February 17, 2011
Former Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak refused to respond to telephone calls from US President Barack Obama because he still felt offended by Obama's statement in which he called on Mubarak "to step down immediately," London-based Arabic language daily Al-Quds Al-Arabi reported on Thursday.
Mubarak, still living in "presidential style" in Sharm el-Sheikh, according to the report, refused an invitation from Saudi King Abdullah to come to the kingdom, telling him he preferred to die on Egyptian soil.
The report said that it was not clear if Mubarak had been in contact with Egypt's new military rulers through his former deputy Omar Suleiman.
Mubarak, whose health deteriorated in the aftermath of his resignation but has since stabilized, is surrounding by personal security, according to the report.
(Excerpt) Read more at jpost.com ...
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We need to decide who is a credible source and who is not.
That author that trashed obama was a weirdo nutjob when he had big Qs about 911, five years ago. But suddenly he's of sane mind and reliable source when trashing obama in a book.
CBO's numbers during Bush's years were right on... and they're right on when they expose obamacare as a fraud... but they're bullshit when obama cites them to show improvement in the economy.
Just tell us what's a good source and what isn't.... you can't diss a source you use on your own quite frequently ;)
See my man, this is the problem when your reading comprehension is extremely low.
First, the CBO has missed big in the past, educate yourself.
Second, the criticism with the CBO score is not the partisanship of the CBO, but the fact that they score based on what's put in front of them. Many assumptions were made. If the assumptions pan out, then you've got a good score. If they don't... And that's the criticism. A lot of people just don't buy into the assumptions.
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Notice not one retort to fergusons' commentary?
Not one. Figures.
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Notice not one retort to fergusons' commentary?
Not one. Figures.
Of course. Ferguson absolutely obliterated the Messiah's fanbase.
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Notice not one retort to fergusons' commentary?
Not one. Figures.
Who? ???
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Niall Ferguson, world respected haervard historian, author, economist, who you should know.
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BTW - Geither is saying the budget obama issues is UNSUSTAINABLE and that it is a disaster. This is obamas' own treas secretary.
Now - obama has said he will veto any cuts at all.
So what does that say? It says that obama is intetionally collapsing the nation.
So eat shit you obama dildos - you have nothing left. You cheer on the worst, most reckless, more irresponsible, most inept and incompetent, idiot to ever hold office at 1600 PA Ave.
Morons.
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He wouldn't be denied. Some company would take him; it would just charge him out the wazoo to do it.
Those would be denials by UNITED HEALTHCARE. How does that translate into another company not taking that same guy with lung cancer (if the price is right, that is)?
Not necessarily. My counterpart sees this in his departments all the time. Here is a simple breakdown of how they get away with it.
Person goes to ABC Insurance and is denied.
Person goes to DEF Insurance and is denied.
so on and so on...
Finally MNO insurance company takes him on for an atrocious fee. It is only going to be for a very basic and limited plan. Anything like lung cancer or whatever will not be covered any way. It is just going to be a basic doctor's office visit and insurance prescription copay. So even if they do take him, it would pretty much exclude whatever condition he had that caused the other insurance companies to reject him. The dreaded "pre-existing condition" clause...
Sort of like car insurance, if one insurance company denies you because you have wrecks, or multiple DUIS or whatever..., then better much all of the major carriers are going to deny you as well. You might find some small Mom&Pop (just an example) type insurance company that will insure you, but it will be very very limited and restricted coverage for an incredibly high fee. They will probably just be no-fault liability type insurance.
Insurance companies and their bullshit are pretty much the main reason that I made sure I had ER, OR and BB departments as my first pick here at the hospital and not stuck with Billing or Medical Coding, etc.. departments.
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Mubarak has to go NOW, no no no, He can stay for another six months.
Then, The Muslim Brotherhood is "largely secular", no no no, I meant they're religious but they work sort of secular.
And, the hits keep coming.
keep drinking those expired cans of protein shakes, Mcway..they're affecting your judgment
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ObamaCare is a de facto single payer, as its goal is to put all private insurance companies OUT OF BUSINESS, leaving government-run health insurance as the only game in town. If you don't believe me, ask Bernie Sanders, the "independent" senator from Vermont.
That's why Dennis Kucinich, who was supposed to hold out his vote for ObamaCare until the public option was available, eventually cracked.
you're out of your mind
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Go listen to ferguson and sober up.
Also - how can you defend obama anymore on money matters now that geithner himself says obamas own budget is unsustainable and reckless AS IS!
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Go listen to ferguson and sober up.
Also - how can you defend obama anymore on money matters now that geithner himself says obamas own budget is unsustainable and reckless AS IS!
amazing...you listen to geithner and call Boehner a liar..never thought I'd see the day...the hypocracy continues
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No, the amazing thing is that dopers like yourself still support this admn when it is telling you to your face that they are proposing UNSUSTAINABLE fiscal policies.
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Are you a fat ass.. most people in houston are fat asses
HAHAHAHHA come on brosky...is that what obama told you???
most ppl in Houston actually arent and even though I technically dont live in Houston neither am I...youve seen pics of me and they rival your epic physique so please dont get it twisted my man!!! ;)
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^^^^
and anytime you or your booty buddy TA want to lay wager on a IP ban on ANYTHING IVE EVER CLAIMED ON HERE you little ladies let me know ;)
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Geithner admitted obamas financial program is unsustainable.
Case closed.
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As for the birther issue - where is the long form bc?
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keep drinking those expired cans of protein shakes, Mcway..they're affecting your judgment
Hey, they're bottles and I just picked up four more (CytoSport CytoProtein) for $0.25 each ;D .
Of course, that has nothing to do with the Obama administration's flip-flopping on Egypt and Mubarak.
So, is the Muslim Brotherhood "largely secular" as Clapper claims or not?
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Obama losing ground across the Middle East
The China Post, Taiwan ^ | February 19, 2011 | Peter Brookes
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Obama losing ground across the Middle East
It would be easier to forgive the Obama administration's lackluster handling of the political crisis in Egypt over the last couple of weeks if things were going their way elsewhere in the Middle East.
Unfortunately, they're not.
Start with Iran. Despite two years of engagement, Tehran is still developing nuclear weapons — significantly shaking stability in the Middle East as they do.
And, sorry: neither cyber ops like the “Stuxnet” computer virus (which the U.S. may have been behind) nor U.N.-prescribed economic sanctions seem to have put much of a hitch in the giddy-up of Iran's runaway nuclear horses.
Despite the president saying that a nuclear Iran is “unacceptable,” Iran may become a card-carrying member of the “Mushroom Cloud Club” this year; some experts believe it already has gathered enough uranium for at least a couple of A-bombs.
Not to mention that its ever-expanding space-launch and satellite programs have put Tehran closer to developing an ICBM capable of reaching the U.S. homeland — all while our missile-defense programs lag behind the threat.
Then there's Syria, where the Bush administration recalled the U.S. ambassador in 2005 over probable Syrian involvement in the assassination of a former Lebanese prime minister.
Obama ended Damascus' “time-out” this year by sending a new ambassador — signaling that it's alright that President Bashar Assad continues his anti-U.S. stance, steps up his crackdown on political opposition and delays any progress on finding peace with his neighbor Israel.
Washington also appears to be looking the other way on Damascus' lack of cooperation with the International Atomic Energy Agency on Syria's (covert) nuclear program, its growing alliance with Iran and its continuing financial, moral and military support of Hamas and Hezbollah.
And don't forget about Lebanon right next door, where, on the administration's watch, both Iran and Syria have dug their claws in again — after the Cedar Revolution loosed their near-death grip on the country in 2005. Tehran's and Damascus' proxy Hezbollah was recently able to bully its candidate into the prime minister's job, setting back U.S. (and Israeli) interests.
In Iraq, where the remaining 50,000 U.S. troops will be leaving this year, there's concern about growing Iranian influence due to American inattention — threatening to create an arc of Persian power across the Middle East's midsection.
Meanwhile, the Middle East peace process — where success, the Obama administration insisted, would set everything right with the region — has gone nowhere in the last two years.
Instead, America's relations with Israel hit new lows on a regular basis; we're no closer to a two-state solution for the Israelis and Palestinians, and Hamas still has an iron grip on Gaza.
It doesn't end there.
Key Arab partners in places like Jordan and Saudi Arabia must be unnerved by how the Obama administration got caught flatfooted by Egypt's turmoil, had trouble finding its “voice” — and seemingly had no plan for influencing the outcome.
There's still hope for a positive ending in Egypt — but that's far from guaranteed at this point. Lots of nightmarish scenarios could come to pass instead, including an Islamist takeover of the Cairo government.
Unless the Obama administration gets its Middle East act together soon and starts to get some traction on these pressing problems, the U.S.' influence will continue to wane, undermining vital U.S. interests.
If things don't change, we're not going to like what — or who — steps in to fill the void the Obama administration's policies are creating in the Middle East
Peter Brookes is a Heritage Foundation senior fellow and a former deputy assistant secretary of defense. Brookes can be reached at peterbrookes@heritage.org
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BREAKING NEWS: State media say Egypt has agreed to let 2 Iran navy ships through Suez Canal
MSNBC ^ | February 18, 2011 | MSNBC
Headline only.
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.com ...
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Shafik Gabr: What Egypt's Top Tycoon Fears Most
by Lloyd Grove
February 16, 2011 | 10:38pm
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-02-16/shafik-gabr-egypts-most-nervous-tycoon-calls-for-law-and-order
________________________ ________________________ --
The well-connected Cairo industrialist Shafik Gabr warns Lloyd Grove that Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran are trying to destabilize Egypt and the country could descend into anarchy.
Egyptian industrialist Shafik Gabr was in Davos, Switzerland, when the revolution began. It was January 26, the second day of protests in Tahrir Square, and from 1,600 miles away at the World Economic Forum—teeming with financiers, celebrities, and heads of state in the crisp, Alpine air—it didn’t look much like a revolution.
But by the time Gabr arrived in Cairo on Friday the 28th—having cut short his schmoozing to rush home on his Gulfstream 200—the planet’s most populous Arab country had changed forever.
And not necessarily for the better.
“The stock market is closed, the banks are closed, transfers are delayed. The economy is in paralysis,” Gabr told me this week from Cairo, where he is chairman and managing director of the ARTOC Group, a real estate-engineering-consumer products-media conglomerate that employs 3,500 Egyptians. “I am a person who has always believed in the importance of orderly transition with law and order, because the minute you lose law and order is the minute you enter into a dark tunnel, a vicious circle…. If we do not have law and order—which as of yet we do not—then Egypt will become a very complex, dangerous, fluid place.”
The 58-year-old Gabr—who speaks idiomatic American and has degrees in business and economics from Cairo’s American University and the University of London—is a suave and gregarious world traveler. He is supremely well-connected, not only on the Egyptian power grid but also in Washington, where he boasts contacts in the White House, Congress, the Pentagon, and the State Department.
Except when it comes to making money, Gabr is a committed incrementalist. He has become a near-billionaire while walking a fine line—making friends and influencing people in the regime of deposed President Hosni Mubarak while insistently pushing democratic reforms and economic empowerment for ordinary Egyptians.
Shafik Gabr at home in Cairo, Egypt on February 28, 2009. (Credit: Jason Larkin / Getty Images)
Now gradualism had given way to anarchy. The peril was apparent as soon as Gabr landed.
“Coming from the airport, I saw people in the street throwing stones, carrying weapons,” he said. “When I came back, my daughter was at home with her grandmother, and for six and a half hours I basically walked the entire neighborhood of Mokattam”—where his family lives in a fabulous hillside mansion overlooking the city—“just to make people appreciate how dangerous things were.”
Gabr went on: “People were starting to pack things to run out of their houses. So we started civil patrols, like Neighborhood Watch, with teams of neighbors walking through the neighborhood at all hours. We had machine guns fired at us. My speculation is that the criminals broke out of jail and some of them took weapons out of police stations.”
It was obvious to Gabr that there was method to the madness.
“If we do not have law and order—which as of yet we do not—then Egypt will become a very complex, dangerous, fluid place.”
“There was a serious plan to scare the populace, no question about it,” he said. “There was a huge number of police stations that were torched all at the same time, all in the same manner. I cannot attribute it to any party. I can say very honestly that there were factors playing a major role beyond the youths in Tahrir Square, to torch, attack, break cells in the prisons for prisoners to be released, to steal police uniforms, to steal armaments, in the very same exact manner across Egypt, not just Cairo. And that requires planning. It’s almost like one of those movies where you have sleeper cells.”
Among other possibilities, Gabr suspects the culprits might have been foreign agents: “Is it the Muslim Brotherhood? I do not know. Is it other vested interests?... I do not know. But it was definitely violent people,” he said. “Among the innocent, legitimate people who were demonstrating, there were definitely others who had their own agenda. Just ask yourself the question: Who’s interested in destabilizing Egypt? You tell me. It’s people right down here in our neighborhood. Hezbollah. Hamas. Iran. They publicly spoke in favor of the fall of Egypt.”
For the past three weeks, as Egypt’s military took control of the 85 million-person country with a promise to oversee the transition to a new constitution and democratic elections, Gabr has been working tirelessly to position himself on the right side of history.
“I have been all over Cairo. I have been walking the streets,” he told me, adding that he’s been urging young demonstrators to form a party of their own in order to make their presence felt in the Egyptian body politic. “I have always been frustrated by the slow pace of reform.”
Gabr said he, too, has been a victim of government corruption. "I personally suffered in the last six or seven years from people who denied our companies permits and denied our companies even the ability to build roads to our projects, and some of our property was confiscated," he told me. "So I saw that there was a lot of favoritism by government officials who had their own agenda. I don’t know if they wanted bribes, but that’s something we’ve never done in the 40 years of our being in business. And it’s something we will never do.” ARTOC, which was founded by Gabr's father, turns 40 in November.
In the early 2000s, Gabr helped start the Arab Business Council, a multinational group of capitalists that attempted to sell economic reform and greater freedom to the region’s traditionally autocratic regimes. “Across the Arab world some people listened politely and did nothing,” he said. “Some people worked on some of the issues, including Egypt, which worked on economic reform… but not quickly enough, and not across the board.”
Not everybody was receptive. “I was told by the prime minister of an Arab country that I will not mention, ‘Do not talk about this publicly. You will be condemned in our country. You will not be able to do business or even sit without us keeping an eye on who you’re talking to.’ ”
In the end the effort fizzled and the group disbanded. “Some of them had more interest in keeping their governments the same way because they benefited from it,” Gabr said. “Others were pushing for change and found themselves being pushed back in ways that were sometimes personal and sometimes generic.”
A decade later, the change agents had moved from the boardroom to the street, and the calcified Mubarak regime found itself woefully behind the curve. “There was mismanagement of the event,” Gabr told me. “If the Egyptian leadership had provided the proper response to the demands of the 25th of January, the rest would not have happened. From the 25th of January to the day Mubarak stepped down, they were always one step too late. After that, vested interests from inside Egypt and from outside Egypt decided that the regime had to go. There were parties that worked to undermine the regime locally and countries such as United States and the European Union that kept zigzagging about where the next step was.”
President Obama—whom Gabr still praises for his June 2009 Cairo speech to the Muslim world urging tolerance, diversity and free expression—wasn’t much help either.
“I believe, quite frankly and sadly, that the U.S. administration sometimes has the best of intentions, but in terms of its implementation it zigzags wildly,” Gabr told me. “My concern as an Egyptian is that we must have peaceful, periodical and legitimate transfers of power through the ballot box. Unfortunately, with the United States saying ‘Muburak has to step down,’ “he needs to stay,’ all that zigzagging truly took that specific goal off the table. By saying ‘Mubarak needs to leave right now,’ ‘No, Mubarak needs to stay,’ the focus became Mubarak when it should have been Egypt.”
The result was a de facto military coup; transition to a civilian democracy is not a sure thing.
“Today we’re under military rule,” Gabr said. “You have no constitution. You have military laws.”
What—and who—is next? How about Shafik Gabr?
“I have never been interested and am not interested now in having a political role,” he insisted in the Egyptian equivalent of a Sherman-like statement. “My focus remains on my work and on my staff—which is, as I call them, my constituency.”
He predicted that the Muslim Brotherhood—which has been variously described in the Western media as reasonable moderates open to compromise or else Islamic radicals bent on imposing Sharia law—will likely enjoy a major role in the new Egypt.
“I believe political parties should be based on secular programs and not religion,” Gabr said. “The Muslim Brotherhood should form a political party or align with an existing one. In terms of support, I forecast that they would secure a minority position. However, they are exceedingly well organized while everybody else isn’t. Their minority position can be much more if it’s cleverly leveraged by them.”
He was dismissive of Mohamed ElBaradei, the Nobel Peace Prize winner and would-be opposition leader who has been living in Switzerland. “Some people who have been living outside Egypt have tried to position themselves—ElBaradei and others whose biggest track record is visiting Egypt,” he said. “What I really hope is that people will start getting serious and put programs on the table, not just sound bites.”
For the moment, Gabr remains “realistically optimistic,” he told me. “And by ‘realistic’ I mean there are a lot of challenges around, more than what meets the eye, that need to be dealt with. Right now we remain in this vicious circle. We’re in the twilight zone right now.”
He added: “What I’m seeing today is lack of order and lack of law. People have taken law in their own hands. People have thrown order out of the window. No society on earth has improved itself without having law and order that applies to everyone…. The worst would be if the autocracy of the regime is replaced by the autocracy of the street. Then we really have a problem.”
Lloyd Grove is editor at large for The Daily Beast. He is also a frequent contributor to New York magazine and was a contributing editor for Condé Nast Portfolio. He wrote a gossip column for the New York Daily News from 2003 to 2006. Prior to that, he wrote the Reliable Source column for the Washington Post, where he spent 23 years covering politics, the media, and other subjects.
Like The Daily Beast on Facebook and follow us on Twitter for updates all day long.
For inquiries, please contact The Daily Beast at editorial@thedailybeast.com.
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Hahaha, I can't wait to hear the excuses when Egypt turns into another Iran. The Brotherhood is already asserting themselves over everyone else (including people like the Google guy who orchestrated most of the initial protesting) and Iranian tentacles are already starting to wrap around the country.
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Muslim shitbags.
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Obama condemns violence in Middle East
Associated Press ^ | Feb. 18, 2011 | DARLENE SUPERVILLE
ABOARD AIR FORCE ONE (AP) -- President Barack Obama on Friday condemned reports of violent reprisals against protesters in Bahrain, Libya and Yemen, and called for government restraint as unrest swept the volatile Middle East in the wake of Egypt's uprising.
The situation threatens U.S. interests and poses a major diplomatic and national security challenge to the Obama administration.
(Excerpt) Read more at hosted.ap.org ...
________________________ _________________
Just masterful. ::)
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Geithner admitted obamas financial program is unsustainable.
Case closed.
HA!!..up until Geithner siad that, you hated the guys guts and said he had no credibility..you GODDAMN HYPOCRITE!!!..you don't even care about your own crediblity anymore
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As for the birther issue - where is the long form bc?
I can't believe you are still on that.....Boehner said its not an issue for him.....its only an issue for nuts like you who are trying your best to delegitimize Obama....well..sorry..he's president...LIVE WITH IT!!!!
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Hahaha, I can't wait to hear the excuses when Egypt turns into another Iran. The Brotherhood is already asserting themselves over everyone else (including people like the Google guy who orchestrated most of the initial protesting) and Iranian tentacles are already starting to wrap around the country.
if it does, its not the president's fault..the people wanted it that way
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Obama condemns violence in Middle East
Associated Press ^ | Feb. 18, 2011 | DARLENE SUPERVILLE
Just masterful. ::)
LOL..... Obama "condemns violence" and you hate on him for it?
Imagine the exact opposite..."Obama endorses violence in Middle East" - You would be complaining even louder.
You probably condemn what the man eats for breakfast.
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LOL..... Obama "condemns violence" and you hate on him for it?
Imagine the exact opposite..."Obama endorses violence in Middle East" - You would be complaining even louder.
You probably condemn what the man eats for breakfast.[/b
]
He does
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LOL..... Obama "condemns violence" and you hate on him for it?
Imagine the exact opposite..."Obama endorses violence in Middle East" - You would be complaining even louder.
You probably condemn what the man eats for breakfast.
No, I posted that due to the fact that he has greatly contributed to the chaos of the situation, JUST LIKE FERGUSON SAID.
But Team Tampon, whose captain is 240, knows better. Got it.
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HA!!..up until Geithner siad that, you hated the guys guts and said he had no credibility..you GODDAMN HYPOCRITE!!!..you don't even care about your own crediblity anymore
I do dislike Geithner - but that doesnot make what he said untruthful.
When even your ow Tres. Sec. says your financial plan is "UNSUSTAINABLE" what does that tell you?
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I can't believe you are still on that.....Boehner said its not an issue for him.....its only an issue for nuts like you who are trying your best to delegitimize Obama....well..sorry..he's president...LIVE WITH IT!!!!
Its not an issue for him,but it is for me. Where is the long form BC and proof of birth in HI?
BTW how can you explain the 16 SS numnbers obama has used in the past or the listof docs he refuses to release?
________________________ __________________--
Obama's records that are not released.
1. Occidental College records -- Not released
2. Columbia College records -- Not released
3. Columbia Thesis paper -- 'not available'
4. Harvard College records -- Not released
5. Selective Service Registration -- Not released
6. Medical records -- Not released
7. Illinois State Senate schedule -- 'not available'
8. Law practice client list -- Not released
9. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate - - Not released
10. Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth -- Not released
11. Harvard Law Review articles published -- None
12. University of Chicago scholarly articles -- None
13. Your Record of baptism-- Not released or 'not available'
14. Your Illinois State Senate records--'not available'
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Funny - Andreisadouche picks a fight with me, yet won't debate wither issue.
On Egypt - the MB is already moving in to take over. and the Birther thing? Seriously? Andre - you are clueless on this. There is no BC or records of birth in HI whatsoever. All there is is a notaton on microfiche of a birth announcement. Thats it.
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if it does, its not the president's fault..the people wanted it that way
Thanks for proving that you're completely clueless on the issue. Another brain-dead, moronic Obamabot here. He failed miserably on Egypt and all the MSM lies in the world aren't going to change that.
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Thanks for proving that you're completely clueless on the issue. Another brain-dead, moronic Obamabot here. He failed miserably on Egypt and all the MSM lies in the world aren't going to change that.
He's too busy toasting, drinking, partying, congratulating himself, etc to really deal with anything.
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Funny - Andreisadouche picks a fight with me, yet won't debate wither issue.
On Egypt - the MB is already moving in to take over. and the Birther thing? Seriously? Andre - you are clueless on this. There is no BC or records of birth in HI whatsoever. All there is is a notaton on microfiche of a birth announcement. Thats it.
ha...debate you????...you don't ever acknowledge when you are wrong so why bother???..I'll just sit back and let your crazy, unsubstantiated posts speak for themselves...if they found the BC long form tomorrow you would just say it was a fake
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Show me the long form bc and I will admit I was wrong.
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How to Lose Friends and Not Influence People
CFR ^ | February 18, 2011 | Elliot Abrams
http://blogs.cfr.org/abrams/2011/02/18/how-to-lose-friends-and-not-influence-people
The Obama Administration cast its first veto in the United Nations on Friday, February 18, killing a Security Council resolution that would have condemned Israeli settlement activity. Its poor handling of the entire episode has left just about everyone angry at the United States , and is therefore a manifest failure of American diplomacy. The Palestinian Authority began to talk about this resolution months ago. The United States could then have adopted a clear position: put it forward and it will be vetoed. That very clear stand might have persuaded the Palestinian leaders and their Arab supporters to drop the effort early on, when it could have been abandoned with no loss of face. Instead the Administration refused to make its position clear until the final day...It seems clear that the Administration was desperate to avoid a veto, indeed desperate to go four years without spoiling its “perfect record.”
But a “perfect record” in the UN requires vetoes, given the persistent anti-Israel bias of the organization. The Administration’s desire to avoid vetoes only served to reduce its bargaining power, for the credible threat of a veto has long served American diplomats seeking to achieve an outcome more favorable to our interests.
On the last day before the vote, the President called Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas...asked Abbas to drop the resolution and settle for a non-binding statement condemning settlement expansion...But apparently the President did more than ask: “One senior Palestinian official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the offer, made in an hour-long phone call from Obama, was accompanied by veiled threats of ‘repercussions’ if it were refused....
Abbas rejected the Clinton and Obama appeals and/or ignored their threats, in itself a sign of reduced American diplomatic influence. The American veto will have angered Palestinians even more. But it will not have gained the Administration any thanks from Israel or from supporters of Israel in the United States, who were appalled by the Administration’s search for a bad compromise...
So the Administration was content with condemning settlements, happy to establish a new UN fact-finding mission, and willing to redefine the role of the Quartet. All that just to avoid a veto of the sort American presidents have been ordering for decades. Feeling guilty about its veto the Administration then issued an extraordinary “explanation of vote,” read by UN Ambassador Susan Rice. Though we had to veto, she explained, “we reject in the strongest terms the legitimacy of continued Israeli settlement activity. For more than four decades, Israeli settlement activity in territories occupied in 1967 has undermined Israel’s security and corroded hopes for peace and stability in the region. Continued settlement activity violates Israel’s international commitments, devastates trust between the parties, and threatens the prospects for peace…."
This is amazing language for a diplomat: “folly,” “illegitimacy,” “devastates,” “corroded,” and so on. It’s hard to recall such a vehement statement against Israel, nor one that contains so many conclusions that are, to say the least, highly debatable....
No doubt the Administration decided that as it had vetoed it would “make it up” to the Arabs with this statement. But emotive language such as Amb. Rice employed serves no purpose. Arab newspapers will headline the veto—assuming of course that they have space in their pages tomorrow after covering the revolts in Tunisia, Yemen, Algeria, Libya, Bahrain, and Egypt—and are very unlikely to cover her speech. Only Israelis and supporters of Israel in the United States will study her language, and remember it.
So, the Administration emerges having damaged relations with both the Israelis and the Palestinians. Decades of American experience at the United Nations proves clearly the “folly” of such diplomatic action...Next time, say you’ll veto, veto, and leave it at that. The United States will end up with fewer angry friends and fewer gleeful enemies.
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Double standard for Iran. Obama Administration coddles dictatorship in Tehran
Washington Times ^ | Feb 18, 2011 | The Washington Times
The people flooding into the streets of Iran to seek regime change find no support from the U.S. government. President Obama, who hectored Egypt's President Hosni Mubarak to transfer power "right now," suddenly doesn't want to get involved when it comes to the dictators running the Islamic republic.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
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I just love it how you have made Obama such an obsession in your life.. .good for me!..I can watch you suffer for six more years!!!...I am so happy!!!!
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President Obama must take the blame for the UN resolution condemning Israel that he had to veto
Editorials
Saturday, February 19th 2011, 4:00 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2011/02/19/2011-02-19_president_obama_must_take_the_blame_for_the_un_resolution_condemning_israel_that.html
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President Obama did the right thing Friday in ordering a U.S. veto of a United Nations Security Council resolution that sought to condemn Israel for "illegal" West Bank settlements and demanding a halt to further construction.
The veto put America at odds not only with most of the world, but also with Obama's own terribly misguided position on the settlements.
The President said he was dead set against them, the Palestinians took full advantage and, presto, the Security Council followed the U.S.' lead to make Israel the bad guy in the drama.
In other words, Obama created the monster and was left to cope with destruction of his own making at a time when the Mideast has descended into turmoil.
First he alienated Israel and now, at a crucial turn of history, he has alienated the Arab world.
All in a very bad day's work.
Obama began the botch in 2009, when, out of nowhere, he called for a settlement freeze - effectively making that a precondition for peace talks between the Israelis and Palestinians.
This was something no Palestinian partner had ever asked for or expected. It also vested a third-level consideration with more importance than, say, Palestinian recognition of Israel's right to exist. And it displayed a naive belief that Palestinians would negotiate in productive good faith if only Israel would make this one gesture.
With the American President suddenly prioritizing it, the demand morphed into the perfect excuse for the Palestinians to stall - telling people to "look over there" while rejectionists continued their frontal assault on Israel's legitimacy.
Obama further degraded matters by repeatedly using some of the same "settlement" terminology to describe neighborhoods that are home to tens of thousands of Jews in East Jerusalem.
These are not settlements in any shape or form.
And so the Palestinians adopted a strategy of painting Israel as a party so intransigent and anti-peace as to be willing to resist the requests of the Jewish state's close ally America.
With anti-Israel sentiment running high around the globe, it worked.
The Security Council took up a Palestinian-backed resolution that had more than 100 cosponsors. Desperately, Obama tried to persuade the council to issue a "statement" rather than a "resolution," as if the damage would have been less, as if any good would come of it.
This is not a split-the-difference, muddy-the-waters kind of thing. There is right and there is wrong - and the President, unfortunately, was wrong.
Not that he is willing to admit it. In explaining the veto, Ambassador Susan Rice said the U.S. agrees with the other 14 members of the council "about the folly and illegitimacy of continued Israeli settlement activity."
She said she cast a veto only because "it is unwise" for the UN panel to try to resolve Israeli-Palestinians relations by fiat.
Would that this could become a humbling lesson for Obama. His grand attempt to forge a Mideast peace is in shambles. Yes, talks break down, but this is worse. The parties are further apart than when he started, thanks largely to his settlements demand.
Meanwhile, with Egypt struggling toward a new government and people across the region rising up in revolt against despotic regimes, America should be courting the forces of change with great care, not infuriating them.
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I just love it how you have made Obama such an obsession in your life.. .good for me!..I can watch you suffer for six more years!!!...I am so happy!!!!
::)
Yeah, the guy who obsesses over the person who obsesses is much better.
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::)
Yeah, the guy who obsesses over the person who obsesses is much better.
Its like if I know my neighbor (Obama) is intent to burn my house down (the economy and nation) and who already has 5 arson convictions (WTF policies, wright, ayeres, failed stim bill, obamacare, cap n trade, etc).
Damn right I am going to keep my eye on that like a laser.
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LIBYA: At least 84 reported dead as Kadafi loyalists disperse protesters with force ...
LA Times ^ | February 19, 2011 | Carol J. Williams
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Libyan strongman Moammar Kadafi, confronted by surging unrest that threatens his 41-year stranglehold on power in the oil-rich country, deployed security forces and loyalists to brutally disperse protesters Saturday in a confrontation reported to have taken at least 84 lives.
A doctor in the eastern city of Benghazi told the Al Jazeera network that he had seen dozens of corpses at the city's hospital, which was on the brink of running out of blood for transfusions to treat the wounded.
"I have seen it on my own eyes: At least 70 bodies at the hospital," Wuwufaq al-Zuwail told the network. He said security forces had blocked ambulances from approaching the protest venues to collect some felled in the brutal crackdown.
Kadafi's regime has successfully shielded the unrest in his country from the outside world's censure by barring foreign journalists, cutting off Internet access and jamming satellite signals, Arab news agencies reported, citing sources in the eastern areas where the protests have been most intense.
The Libyan government has blocked Al Jazeera's TV signal in the country and people have also reported that the network's website is inaccessible, the network said in its latest dispatch.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimesblogs.latimes.com ...
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Funny -where is obama on this?
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LIBYA: At least 84 reported dead as Kadafi loyalists disperse protesters with force ...
LA Times ^ | February 19, 2011 | Carol J. Williams
________________________ ________________________ ________
Libyan strongman Moammar Kadafi, confronted by surging unrest that threatens his 41-year stranglehold on power in the oil-rich country, deployed security forces and loyalists to brutally disperse protesters Saturday in a confrontation reported to have taken at least 84 lives.
A doctor in the eastern city of Benghazi told the Al Jazeera network that he had seen dozens of corpses at the city's hospital, which was on the brink of running out of blood for transfusions to treat the wounded.
"I have seen it on my own eyes: At least 70 bodies at the hospital," Wuwufaq al-Zuwail told the network. He said security forces had blocked ambulances from approaching the protest venues to collect some felled in the brutal crackdown.
Kadafi's regime has successfully shielded the unrest in his country from the outside world's censure by barring foreign journalists, cutting off Internet access and jamming satellite signals, Arab news agencies reported, citing sources in the eastern areas where the protests have been most intense.
The Libyan government has blocked Al Jazeera's TV signal in the country and people have also reported that the network's website is inaccessible, the network said in its latest dispatch.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimesblogs.latimes.com ...
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Funny -where is obama on this?
where should he be? Is this his fault as well?
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yeha, obama talked on the last egypt thing, and we dissed him.
he's being quiet on this issue - and it's "Where is obama on this", dissing him for not chiming in on every single riot in the world.
He's finally being presidential on it - staying quiet, observing, working behind scene, and twisting the fcking arm of whoever wins.
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yeha, obama talked on the last egypt thing, and we dissed him.
he's being quiet on this issue - and it's "Where is obama on this", dissing him for not chiming in on every single riot in the world.
He's finally being presidential on it - staying quiet, observing, working behind scene, and twisting the fcking arm of whoever wins.
So you support flip-flopping and inconsistency. Makes sense. You clowns can't even explain how Obama handled these events well (meanwhile, the critics have actually laid out there arguments, making 100% of course). The last few weeks have shown how unbelievably inexperienced and clueless this entire admin. is. And you just lap it up like the Obama lapdog you are. :-\
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So you support flip-flopping and inconsistency. Makes sense. You clowns can't even explain how Obama handled these events well (meanwhile, the critics have actually laid out there arguments, making 100% of course). The last few weeks have shown how unbelievably inexperienced and clueless this entire admin. is. And you just lap it up like the Obama lapdog you are. :-\
we are not supposed to know how he handled these events...he twists arms in private...you know that...stop posturing
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we are not supposed to know how he handled these events...he twists arms in private...you know that...stop posturing
Twists arms in private? He couldn't even get Mubarak to take a phone call from him and that guy was the US's 2nd biggest ally in the Muslim world. He's not twisting anybody's arm. He and his cronies have failed horribly on these events. And the saddest part is that they weren't even prepared for it (showing how truly inexperienced they are). Not that you will admit it as your skin color makes sure you agree with everything the Messiah does, regardless of how it turns out. Hence why it's stupid to even entertain your points on topics like this.
The funniest part in all this is that you guys can't even refute people like Ferguson. You just say he doesn't know what he's talking about and then proceed right back into your hero worship, all without actually refuting anything.
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Twists arms in private? He couldn't even get Mubarak to take a phone call from him and that guy was the US's 2nd biggest ally in the Muslim world. He's not twisting anybody's arm. He and his cronies have failed horribly on these events. And the saddest part is that they weren't even prepared for it (showing how truly inexperienced they are). Not that you will admit it as your skin color makes sure you agree with everything the Messiah does, regardless of how it turns out. Hence why it's stupid to even entertain your points on topics like this.
ha..bringing up skin color.....I was waiting for that..its always what people do as a last resort..the fact is Mubarak is gone...how do you suppose that happened?....dictators always hang on until the very end....Obama told him to leave....accept that.....and stop whining....you sound like bitch
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ha..bringing up skin color.....I was waiting for that..its always what people do as a last resort..the fact is Mubarak is gone...how do you suppose that happened?....dictators always hang on until the very end....Obama told him to leave....accept that.....and stop whining....you sound like bitch
I brought it up because you haven't actually refuted anything and continue on with your blind hero worship. You just spend the bulk of your time...following...333.. .around...like...a...los t...dog...and...typing.. .like...a...retard.
Obama had no hand in getting Mubarak to leave and was completely bitch-slapped by Mubarak's conference announcing he wasn't stepping down (after Obama spent the entire day leading up to hailing his decision). Was a glorious owning and slap-in-the-face to Obama. Then to top it off, the Saudi King, our biggest ally in the Muslim world, completely eviscerated Obama on a phone call and told him that he would bankroll Mubarak should Obama pull the aid we give Egypt. I'm guessing you shared a good cry right alongside your GodKing that night.
Then again, you're the same retard who actually claimed the US message on Egypt was consistent. LOL.
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I brought it up because you haven't actually refuted anything and continue on your with blinded hero worship. You just spend the bulk of your time...following...333.. .around...like...a...los t...dog...and...typing.. .like...a...retard.
Obama had no hand in getting Mubarak to leave and was completely bitch-slapped by Mubarak's conference announcing he wasn't stepping down (after Obama spent the entire day leading up to hailing his decision). Was a glorious owning and slap-in-the-face to Obama. I'm guessing you shared a good cry right alongside Obama that night.
you are sounding really retarded now....I guess you are there for the daily white house briefings....I don't refute anything you say because like I said earlier, why bother?..you and 3333 never ever acknowledge when you are wrong or acknowledge any one elses point so why argue with myself???
you can rant all you want..but Obama is here for 6 more years..get used to it.....NOW GO TO YOUR ROOM AND CRY!!!!!!
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Andre why the silence on iran and lybia from zero?
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you are sounding really retarded now....I guess you are there for the daily white house briefings....I don't refute anything you say because like I said earlier, why bother?..you and 3333 never ever acknowledge when you are wrong or acknowledge any one elses point so why argue with myself???
you can rant all you want..but Obama is here for 6 more years..get used to it.....NOW GO TO YOUR ROOM AND CRY!!!!!!
So now you're basing your opinion off "daily white house briefings" which you're not privy to either? Brilliant refutation! Makes complete sense! ::)
Why would I admit I was wrong here when the bulk of the experts not sucking on the MSM tit have said the same thing? You continually avoiding refuting any of the points I (or the experts) have made while resorting to personal insults only further proves my point.
Go ahead and refute this in your own words with facts. I suspect you can't or won't. Thanks for playing. Feel free to carry on with your man-lust.
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So now you're basing your opinion off "daily white house briefings" which you're not privy to either? Brilliant refutation! Makes complete sense! ::)
Why would I admit I was wrong here when the bulk of the experts not sucking on the MSM tit have said the same thing? You continually avoiding refuting any of the points I (or the experts) have made while resorting to personal insults only further proves my point.
Go ahead and refute this in your own words with facts. I suspect you can't or won't. Thanks for playing. Feel free to carry on with your man-lust.
why I am even bothering to argue with you, I don't know, but there are a million "experts" out there..you have yours and I have mine...whose right and whose wrong???....Boehner should know..he is PART OF THE GOVERNMENT.....he said Obama handled Egypt correctly..for some reason you and 3333 can't handle that???..why not?..because it doesn't fit in your agenda...I guess Boehner has man-lust for Obama as well huh???....
NOW BACK TO YOUR ROOM AND CONTINUE CRYING
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Still refusing to actually refute any points made and melting down harder than ever. Still praising that moron Boehner (as if his opinion means dick and ironically, the same opinion you Dems laugh at and attack 99.99% of the time) on top of it. How sad and typical of an uninformed, Obama-worshiping sheeple.
Hahahahahaha @ basing your entire argument around the opinion of a teary-eyed Republican you hate. And then arguing that the Messiah is "working behind the scenes" when, in reality, he can't even get his 2nd biggest ally in the Muslim world to take his phone call. If that's not desperate then I don't know what is. Thanks...for...playing!
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Andre why the silence on iran and lybia from zero?
come on 3333 you and I both know this is a red herring...if Obama would have commented on it whatever he said would have been wrong...so cut ie t out.....Obama is working behind the scenes as he should be lest the ignorant masses of the middle east think the U.S. is behind these uprisings thus damaging the credibility of the protesters
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Still refusing to actually refute any points made and melting down harder than ever. Still praising that moron Boehner (as if his opinion means dick and ironically, the same opinion you Dems laugh at and attack 99.99% of the time) on top of it. How sad and typical of an uninformed, Obama-worshiping sheeple.
Hahahahahaha @ basing your entire argument around the opinion of a teary-eyed Republican you hate. If that's not desperate then I don't know what is. Thanks...for...playing!
again refuting you is a waste of time..you don't care about facts....I will just keep puting forth my argument just as you do....facts do not work for you....I won't waste my time digging up and posting facts that you won't read anyway
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Sorry - he is coaching a basketball game today and parties with zuckerberg yesterday - I don't think he is really doing shit to help the protestors getting slaughtered by his self labeld father Quadafi.
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Comment
U.S.-Taliban Talks
by Steve Coll
February 28, 2011 SharePrintE-MailSingle Page
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On August 22, 1998, Mullah Omar, the emir of Taliban-ruled Afghanistan, made a cold call to the State Department. The United States had just lobbed cruise missiles at Al Qaeda camps in his nation. Omar got a mid-level diplomat on the line and spoke calmly. He suggested that Congress force President Bill Clinton to resign. He said that American military strikes “would be counter-productive,” and would “spark more, not less, terrorist attacks,” according to a declassified record of the call. “Omar emphasized that this was his best advice,” the record adds.
That was the first and last time that Omar spoke to an American government official, as far as is known. Before September 11th, some of his deputies had occasionally spoken with U.S. diplomats, but afterward the United States rejected direct talks with Taliban leaders, on the ground that they were as much to blame for terrorism as Al Qaeda was. Last year, however, as the U.S.-led Afghan ground war passed its ninth anniversary, and Mullah Omar remained in hiding, presumably in Pakistan, a small number of officials in the Obama Administration—among them the late Richard Holbrooke, the special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan—argued that it was time to try talking to the Taliban again.
Holbrooke’s final diplomatic achievement, it turns out, was to see this advice accepted. The Obama Administration has entered into direct, secret talks with senior Afghan Taliban leaders, several people briefed about the talks told me last week. The discussions are continuing; they are of an exploratory nature and do not yet amount to a peace negotiation. That may take some time: the first secret talks between the United States and representatives of North Vietnam took place in 1968; the Paris Peace Accords, intended to end direct U.S. military involvement in the war, were not agreed on until 1973.
When asked for comment on the talks, a White House spokesman said that the remarks that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton made last Friday at the Asia Society offered a “thorough representation of the U.S. position.” Clinton had tough words for the Taliban, saying that they were confronted with a choice between political compromise and ostracism as “an enemy of the international community.” She added, “I know that reconciling with an adversary that can be as brutal as the Taliban sounds distasteful, even unimaginable. And diplomacy would be easy if we only had to talk to our friends. But that is not how one makes peace. President Reagan understood that when he sat down with the Soviets. And Richard Holbrooke made this his life’s work. He negotiated face to face with Milosevic and ended a war.”
Mullah Omar is not a participant in the preliminary talks. He does not attend even secret meetings of underground Taliban leadership councils in Pakistani safe houses. When he does speak, he does so obliquely, via cassette tapes. One purpose of the talks initiated by the Obama Administration, therefore, is to assess which figures in the Taliban’s leadership, if any, might be willing to engage in formal Afghan peace negotiations, and under what conditions.
Obama’s war advisers previously made it clear that the Afghan President, Hamid Karzai, must lead any high-level peace or “reconciliation” process involving Taliban leaders, and, since 2008, Karzai has carried out sporadic talks with current and former Taliban, occasionally aided by Saudi Arabia, but to no end. Last summer, the Afghan government’s attempts produced a farcical con, when a man posed as a senior Taliban leader and fleeced his handlers for cash. The recent American talks are intended to prime more successful and durable negotiations led by Karzai. The United States would play a supporting role in these negotiations, and might join them to discuss the status of Taliban prisoners in U.S. custody or the future of international forces in Afghanistan. For the United States, the overarching goal of such negotiations would be to persuade at least some important Taliban leaders to break with Al Qaeda, leave the battlefield, and participate in Afghan electoral politics, without touching off violence by anti-Taliban groups or gutting the rights enjoyed by minorities and women.
Although the Taliban’s record is nothing like Al Qaeda’s, they have aided international terrorism; in 2000, for example, they facilitated the escape of the murderous hijackers of an Indian Airlines passenger plane. As Hillary Clinton indicated, the morality of talking to them at all, given their history of violence and repression, is debated within the Administration, as it is within the Afghan government. But in both countries there is also hope for an honorable path to end the war.
The pursuit of peace, however, can be just as risky as the prosecution of war. If mismanaged, full-blown Afghan peace talks might ignite a civil war along ethnic lines. (The Taliban draw their support from Afghanistan’s Pashtuns; the most vehement anti-Taliban militias are non-Pashtun.) Also, the Taliban and their historical benefactors in Pakistan, the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate, the spy agency directed by the Pakistani military, have an almost unblemished record of overreaching in Afghan affairs, by funding and arming client militias, and there is no reason to think that their habits would change if serious negotiations unfolded. And, even under the best of circumstances, an Afghan peace process would most likely mirror the present character of the war: a slow, complicated, and deathly grind, atomized and menaced by interference from neighboring governments—not just Pakistan’s but also those of Iran, India, Russia, Uzbekistan, and China.
The Taliban today are diverse and fractured. Some old-school leaders, who served in Mullah Omar’s cabinet or as governors during the nineteen-nineties, belong to a council known as the Quetta Shura, named for the Pakistani city in which many Taliban have enjoyed sanctuary since 2001. This is the group whose members are thought to be most ready to consider coming in from the cold. Other factions, such as the Haqqani network, based in North Waziristan, which has long-standing ties to the I.S.I., are regarded as more malicious and more susceptible to Pakistan’s control. Inside Afghanistan, young Taliban commanders fight locally and often viciously, oblivious of international diplomacy. Yalta this is not.
Nonetheless, the Obama Administration has understandably concluded that the status quo is untenable. The war has devolved into a strategic stalemate: urban Afghan populations enjoy reasonable security, millions of schoolgirls are back in class, Al Qaeda cannot operate, and the Taliban cannot return to power, yet in the provinces ethnic militias and criminal gangs still husband weapons, cadge international funds, and exploit the weak. Neither the United States nor the Taliban can achieve its stated aims by arms alone, and the Administration lacks a sure way to preserve the gains made while reducing its military presence, as it must, for fiscal, political, and many other reasons.
If giving peace talks a chance can decrease the violence and shrink the Afghan battlefield by twenty or even ten per cent, President Obama will have calculated correctly: even a partly successful negotiation might help create political conditions that favor the reduction of American forces to a more sustainable level. A Taliban-endorsed ceasefire, to build confidence around long-term talks supported by many international governments, might also be conceivable.
Last spring, in Kabul, several former Taliban leaders told me that some exiled senior Taliban in Pakistan wanted the United States to leave Afghanistan but, at the same time, they preferred to talk with the Americans directly about the country’s future, both to escape I.S.I. manipulation and because they regarded Karzai as a weak puppet. As long as the Obama Administration refused to join in the talks, progress would be impossible, they told me. “It’s just the Americans,” Mullah Abdul Salam Zaeef, the Taliban’s former ambassador to Pakistan, said. “They are not ready to make positive progress.”
At that point, Defense Secretary Robert Gates and military commanders, such as Admiral Michael Mullen, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, argued that Obama’s “surge” of troops needed more time to inflict morale-sapping damage on the Taliban; their theory was that Taliban leaders would take peace talks seriously only when they felt sufficiently battered. Last year, American-led forces killed or captured scores of mid-level Taliban commanders. General David Petraeus said recently that counterinsurgency efforts in the Taliban strongholds of Helmand and Kandahar provinces had pushed the guerrillas back. It was these perceived military gains that influenced the Administration’s decision to enter into direct talks.
Confidentiality has its place in statecraft, and if Afghanistan’s war is to be resolved it will require some quiet dealmaking, but there is something unsavory about secret talks as a mechanism for drawing the Taliban into politics. Afghanistan has suffered heavily enough from the covert designs of outside powers. Negotiations with the Taliban must eventually be transparent, so that the Afghans themselves can examine them. And more than a deal with Taliban leaders will be called for. American efforts to calm the violence will succeed only if they are part of a broader strategy in Afghanistan and South Asia, one that gives priority to economic development, energy links, water, and regional peacemaking, including in the conflict between India and Pakistan.
It is past time for the United States to shift some of its capacity for risk-taking in the war off the battlefield and into diplomacy aimed at reinforcing Afghan political unity, neutrality, civil rights, and social cohesion. The recent talks are nevertheless a constructive step. For too long, American political strategy in Afghanistan has been subordinate to military and intelligence operations. Thinking and learning through principled discussions with an enemy is an opportunity, not a trap. ♦
Read more http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2011/02/28/110228taco_talk_coll?printable=true#ixzz1ERwy4IwN
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Comment
U.S.-Taliban Talks
by Steve Coll
February 28, 2011 SharePrintE-MailSingle Page
________________________ ______________________
On August 22, 1998, Mullah Omar, the emir of Taliban-ruled Afghanistan, made a cold call to the State Department. The United States had just lobbed cruise missiles at Al Qaeda camps in his nation. Omar got a mid-level diplomat on the line and spoke calmly. He suggested that Congress force President Bill Clinton to resign. He said that American military strikes “would be counter-productive,” and would “spark more, not less, terrorist attacks,” according to a declassified record of the call. “Omar emphasized that this was his best advice,” the record adds.
That was the first and last time that Omar spoke to an American government official, as far as is known. Before September 11th, some of his deputies had occasionally spoken with U.S. diplomats, but afterward the United States rejected direct talks with Taliban leaders, on the ground that they were as much to blame for terrorism as Al Qaeda was. Last year, however, as the U.S.-led Afghan ground war passed its ninth anniversary, and Mullah Omar remained in hiding, presumably in Pakistan, a small number of officials in the Obama Administration—among them the late Richard Holbrooke, the special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan—argued that it was time to try talking to the Taliban again.
Holbrooke’s final diplomatic achievement, it turns out, was to see this advice accepted. The Obama Administration has entered into direct, secret talks with senior Afghan Taliban leaders, several people briefed about the talks told me last week. The discussions are continuing; they are of an exploratory nature and do not yet amount to a peace negotiation. That may take some time: the first secret talks between the United States and representatives of North Vietnam took place in 1968; the Paris Peace Accords, intended to end direct U.S. military involvement in the war, were not agreed on until 1973.
When asked for comment on the talks, a White House spokesman said that the remarks that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton made last Friday at the Asia Society offered a “thorough representation of the U.S. position.” Clinton had tough words for the Taliban, saying that they were confronted with a choice between political compromise and ostracism as “an enemy of the international community.” She added, “I know that reconciling with an adversary that can be as brutal as the Taliban sounds distasteful, even unimaginable. And diplomacy would be easy if we only had to talk to our friends. But that is not how one makes peace. President Reagan understood that when he sat down with the Soviets. And Richard Holbrooke made this his life’s work. He negotiated face to face with Milosevic and ended a war.”
Mullah Omar is not a participant in the preliminary talks. He does not attend even secret meetings of underground Taliban leadership councils in Pakistani safe houses. When he does speak, he does so obliquely, via cassette tapes. One purpose of the talks initiated by the Obama Administration, therefore, is to assess which figures in the Taliban’s leadership, if any, might be willing to engage in formal Afghan peace negotiations, and under what conditions.
Obama’s war advisers previously made it clear that the Afghan President, Hamid Karzai, must lead any high-level peace or “reconciliation” process involving Taliban leaders, and, since 2008, Karzai has carried out sporadic talks with current and former Taliban, occasionally aided by Saudi Arabia, but to no end. Last summer, the Afghan government’s attempts produced a farcical con, when a man posed as a senior Taliban leader and fleeced his handlers for cash. The recent American talks are intended to prime more successful and durable negotiations led by Karzai. The United States would play a supporting role in these negotiations, and might join them to discuss the status of Taliban prisoners in U.S. custody or the future of international forces in Afghanistan. For the United States, the overarching goal of such negotiations would be to persuade at least some important Taliban leaders to break with Al Qaeda, leave the battlefield, and participate in Afghan electoral politics, without touching off violence by anti-Taliban groups or gutting the rights enjoyed by minorities and women.
Although the Taliban’s record is nothing like Al Qaeda’s, they have aided international terrorism; in 2000, for example, they facilitated the escape of the murderous hijackers of an Indian Airlines passenger plane. As Hillary Clinton indicated, the morality of talking to them at all, given their history of violence and repression, is debated within the Administration, as it is within the Afghan government. But in both countries there is also hope for an honorable path to end the war.
The pursuit of peace, however, can be just as risky as the prosecution of war. If mismanaged, full-blown Afghan peace talks might ignite a civil war along ethnic lines. (The Taliban draw their support from Afghanistan’s Pashtuns; the most vehement anti-Taliban militias are non-Pashtun.) Also, the Taliban and their historical benefactors in Pakistan, the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate, the spy agency directed by the Pakistani military, have an almost unblemished record of overreaching in Afghan affairs, by funding and arming client militias, and there is no reason to think that their habits would change if serious negotiations unfolded. And, even under the best of circumstances, an Afghan peace process would most likely mirror the present character of the war: a slow, complicated, and deathly grind, atomized and menaced by interference from neighboring governments—not just Pakistan’s but also those of Iran, India, Russia, Uzbekistan, and China.
The Taliban today are diverse and fractured. Some old-school leaders, who served in Mullah Omar’s cabinet or as governors during the nineteen-nineties, belong to a council known as the Quetta Shura, named for the Pakistani city in which many Taliban have enjoyed sanctuary since 2001. This is the group whose members are thought to be most ready to consider coming in from the cold. Other factions, such as the Haqqani network, based in North Waziristan, which has long-standing ties to the I.S.I., are regarded as more malicious and more susceptible to Pakistan’s control. Inside Afghanistan, young Taliban commanders fight locally and often viciously, oblivious of international diplomacy. Yalta this is not.
Nonetheless, the Obama Administration has understandably concluded that the status quo is untenable. The war has devolved into a strategic stalemate: urban Afghan populations enjoy reasonable security, millions of schoolgirls are back in class, Al Qaeda cannot operate, and the Taliban cannot return to power, yet in the provinces ethnic militias and criminal gangs still husband weapons, cadge international funds, and exploit the weak. Neither the United States nor the Taliban can achieve its stated aims by arms alone, and the Administration lacks a sure way to preserve the gains made while reducing its military presence, as it must, for fiscal, political, and many other reasons.
If giving peace talks a chance can decrease the violence and shrink the Afghan battlefield by twenty or even ten per cent, President Obama will have calculated correctly: even a partly successful negotiation might help create political conditions that favor the reduction of American forces to a more sustainable level. A Taliban-endorsed ceasefire, to build confidence around long-term talks supported by many international governments, might also be conceivable.
Last spring, in Kabul, several former Taliban leaders told me that some exiled senior Taliban in Pakistan wanted the United States to leave Afghanistan but, at the same time, they preferred to talk with the Americans directly about the country’s future, both to escape I.S.I. manipulation and because they regarded Karzai as a weak puppet. As long as the Obama Administration refused to join in the talks, progress would be impossible, they told me. “It’s just the Americans,” Mullah Abdul Salam Zaeef, the Taliban’s former ambassador to Pakistan, said. “They are not ready to make positive progress.”
At that point, Defense Secretary Robert Gates and military commanders, such as Admiral Michael Mullen, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, argued that Obama’s “surge” of troops needed more time to inflict morale-sapping damage on the Taliban; their theory was that Taliban leaders would take peace talks seriously only when they felt sufficiently battered. Last year, American-led forces killed or captured scores of mid-level Taliban commanders. General David Petraeus said recently that counterinsurgency efforts in the Taliban strongholds of Helmand and Kandahar provinces had pushed the guerrillas back. It was these perceived military gains that influenced the Administration’s decision to enter into direct talks.
Confidentiality has its place in statecraft, and if Afghanistan’s war is to be resolved it will require some quiet dealmaking, but there is something unsavory about secret talks as a mechanism for drawing the Taliban into politics. Afghanistan has suffered heavily enough from the covert designs of outside powers. Negotiations with the Taliban must eventually be transparent, so that the Afghans themselves can examine them. And more than a deal with Taliban leaders will be called for. American efforts to calm the violence will succeed only if they are part of a broader strategy in Afghanistan and South Asia, one that gives priority to economic development, energy links, water, and regional peacemaking, including in the conflict between India and Pakistan.
It is past time for the United States to shift some of its capacity for risk-taking in the war off the battlefield and into diplomacy aimed at reinforcing Afghan political unity, neutrality, civil rights, and social cohesion. The recent talks are nevertheless a constructive step. For too long, American political strategy in Afghanistan has been subordinate to military and intelligence operations. Thinking and learning through principled discussions with an enemy is an opportunity, not a trap. ♦
Read more http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2011/02/28/110228taco_talk_coll?printable=true#ixzz1ERwy4IwN
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FAIL
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what exactly out of this huge article is a fail to you?
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Are you for real? The whole article should have everyone shaking their head in disgust at the naïve bullshit coming from this admn.
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Are you for real? The whole article should have everyone shaking their head in disgust at the naïve bullshit coming from this admn.
I don't see where talking to your enemies is naive.....we cannot defeat them on the battlefield..its best for us to cut the best deal with the best people and get out of there
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Just read Egypt is allowing two Iranian ships through the canal, first time since 1979, a significant date for sure.
Yeah, great job!
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Iran Naval Ships to Cross Suez Canal on Monday
IRAN NAVAL SHIPS SUEZ CANAL IRANIAN SHIPS MIDDLE EAST
Reuters | 19 Feb 2011 | 05:58 PM ET
Two Iranian naval ships will sail through the Suez Canal to the Mediterranean on Monday, a Suez Canal official said, in what will be the first passage of Iranian naval ships through the canal since 1979.
Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman has described Iran's plan to send the ships through the canal en route to Syria as a "provocation."
The official said the vessels would arrive at the southern mouth of the canal in the Red Sea's Gulf of Suez on Sunday. They would enter the canal in the northern convoy on Monday morning and complete the journey to the Mediterranean by evening.
An Egyptian army source said on Friday that the military, which has been running Egypt since President Hosni Mubarak was toppled from power on Feb. 11, had approved Iran's request to send the ships through the canal.
The decision had posed an early diplomatic headache for Egypt's interim government. Cairo is an ally of the United States and has a peace treaty with Israel but its relations with Iran have been strained since the 1979 revolution.
Egypt's Western allies are watching for hints of any shift in policy towards its Middle East neighbours.
Writing by Tom Perry; editing by Michael Roddy
Copyright 2011 Thomson Reuters. Click for restrictions.
URL: http://www.cnbc.com/id/41684330/
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© 2011 CNBC.com
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Just read Egypt is allowing two Iranian ships through the canal, first time since 1979, a significant date for sure.
Yeah, great job!
It's tricky... we talk about how we support democracy, etc.
But the majority of people over there prefer Iran to the USA. The majority of people in the area hate us and will vote in people who work against our interests.
So in this case... when the majority of the population disagrees with our agenda on their side of the world, it's probably better that we prop up dictatorships.
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Obama Quicker Denouncing Gov. Walker than Mubarak
ABC News ^ | Feb. 20, 2011 | by Joshua Miller
~ EXCERPT ~
Thousands in the streets protesting. Chanting workers, young and old, taking over a government building and grinding activity to a halt. Lawmakers fleeing. An executive standing firm in face of the revolt.
**snip**
President Obama weighed in on the issue on Wednesday, calling Walker's legislation "an assault on unions."
**snip**
"The President was quicker and more forceful of his denouncement of Gov. Scott Walker than he was of denouncing Hosni Mubarak," (ABC News Correspondent Jon) Karl said. "Madison, Wisconsin – the state of Wisconsin -- this is arguably ground zero for the 2012 presidential campaign. Look, this is a state if President Obama loses, he's almost certainly going to not win re-election," Karl explained.
(Excerpt) Read more at theblaze.com ...
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Egypt gets its Khomeini
Jerusaelem Post ^ | 2-21-11 | BARRY RUBIN
Up until now, the Egyptian revolution generally, and the Brotherhood in particular, has lacked a charismatic thinker, someone who could really mobilize the masses. Qaradawi is that man. Talkbacks (3) Friday, February 18 may be a turning point in Egyptian history. On that day Yusuf al-Qaradawi spoke to a giant cheering crowd in Tahrir Square.
He praised the army – to ward off it’s repression and to encourage it to support a transformation of the country.
He preached caution and patience, working with the army.
And he also lavished praise on the pro-Islamist chairman of the committee to write the new constitution, which may not be a good sign at all.
There is one easily missed word in his speech that is the most significant. That word is “hypocrites.” In the Islamist lexicon, hypocrites means Muslims who do not practice “true” Islam according to the radicals. To take Egypt out of the hands of “hypocrites” is to put it onto the hands of the Muslim Brotherhood – or at least similarly minded people – which, contrary to the best and the brightest policy makers, intelligence analysts, experts and journalists, is not a moderate organization.
History may show that while president Jimmy Carter may have “lost” Iran, one of his successors may have helped give away Egypt. Is that alarmist? I hope so.
Watch and see.
As so often happens, Israel will be left to pay the bill.
Qaradawi said he looked forward to a similar ceremony in Jerusalem, and he did not mean after a two-state negotiated solution.
IT WAS 32 years ago almost to the day when Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini returned in triumph to Tehran to take over the leadership of that country. Qaradawi has a tougher job, but he’s up to the challenge if his health holds up.
Up until now, the Egyptian revolution generally, and the Brotherhood in particular, has lacked a charismatic thinker, someone who could really mobilize the masses. Qaradawi is that man. Long resident in the Gulf, he is returning to his homeland in triumph.
Through Internet, radio, his 100 books and his weekly satellite television program, he has been an articulate voice for revolutionary Islamism. He is literally a living legend.
Under the old regime, Qaradawi had been banned from the country. He is now 84 – two years older than the fallen president Hosni Mubarak – but tremendously energetic and clear-minded.
It was Qaradawi who, in critiquing Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida, argued that Islamists should always participate in elections because they would invariably win them. Hamas and Hezbollah have shown that he was right.
Symbolically, he gave the Friday prayer/sermon in Tahrir Square, the center of the revolutionary movement.
The massing of hundreds of thousands in the square to hear a sermon by a radical Islamist is not the kind of thing that’s been going on under the 60-year-old military regime that was recently overthrown.
The context is also the thanking of Qaradawi for his support of the revolution – an implication that he is somehow its spiritual father.
Though some in the West view him as a moderate, Qaradawi supports the straight Islamist line: anti-American, anti-Western, wipe Israel off the map, foment jihad, stone homosexuals....in short, the works.
One of his initiatives has been urging Muslims to settle in the West, of which he said, “that powerful West, which has come to rule the world, should not be left to the influence of the Jews alone.”
He contends that the three major threats Muslims face are Zionism, internal integration and globalization. To survive, he argues, Muslims must fight the Zionists, Crusaders, idolators and communists.
Make no mistake, Qaradawi is not some fossilized Islamic ideologue. He is brilliant and innovative, tactically flexible and strategically sophisticated. He is subtle enough to sell himself as a moderate to those who don’t understand the implications of his words or able to look beneath the surface of his presentation.
What is his view of both the Mubarak regime and the young, Facebook-flourishing liberals who made the revolution? As he said in 2004: “Some Arab and Muslim secularists are following the US government by advocating the kind of reform that will disarm the nation from the elements of strength that are holding our people together.”
There is no doubt. Qaradawi, not bin Laden, is the most dangerous revolutionary Islamist in the world, and he is about to unleash the full force of his persuasion on Egypt.
Who are you going to bet on being more influential, a Google executive and an unorganized band of well-intentioned liberal Egyptians, or the world champion radical Islamist cleric?
The writer is director of the Global Research in International Affairs Center and editor of the Middle East Review of International Affairs Journal. He blogs at www.rubinreports.blogspo t.com. A shorter version of this article was published in American Thinker.
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Monday, February 21, 2011
Ayatollah Ali Khamenei: Egypt is about the rejection of the United States by Islam
Sen. Soetoro reading the Post-American World by Fareed Zakaria on the 2008 campaign trail.
"The main problem in the Muslim world is the presence of the United States. It is the biggest problem. We need to address that. It is necessary to remove the US from the Islamic world,"-- Ayatollah Ali Khamenei
Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei revealed the truth regarding Egypt and the present unrest in the Islamic world, which is the recent overthrow of the Egyptian government, was a direct rejection of the U.S.A. by the Muslim world. These developments beg the questions did president Barry Hussein Soetoro know beforehand of these hostilities and how much did he know about the coming Islamic advance on the Western world. (see article)
Moreover recent political unrest has went viral in foreign governments Iran, Algeria, Yemen, Morocco, China and domestically in Wisconsin USA. They all have the same political instability in common. However, do they share something else, perhaps something yet unconsidered.
On Sunday, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei called on Muslims to "remove" the US from the Islamic world in the middle of an explosion of Islamic unrest in the Middle East. Coincidence?
Then is it also chance that the Progressive Liberal agenda detonated across the American political landscape over the last two years? In addition, is there a common catalyst that is driving this worldwide cataclysmic political change as well as this current domestic upheaval? (see article)
Moreover, what about the last two years in the United States, We’ve witnessed Homosexual advancement not by the American people but by the U.S. government over the objections of the American people. There has been U.S. government backed illegal immigration lawsuits and politicking by special interests illegal alien lovers and their government backers. In addition, we have seen forced Obamacare legislation made law over the utter objections of the American people now declared unconstitutional by the courts. We have also seen trillion dollar spending and bailouts in just the past two years the likes that took the previous administration eight years to spend.
All of the above separately or collectively could have been cause for massive street protest in the United States yet Conservatives did not resort to such tactics. However what did cause an uprising in the Wisconsin streets of that state’s capital were the president Barry Hussein Soetoro’s back Union’s objection of Wisconsin state government’s attempt to regain in control of its budget. To which we can only conclude that president Soetoro is against the state of Wisconsin just as he is against the state of Arizona.
Moreover, the Wisconsin Union backed street protest look very similar to those in Egypt, Iran, Algeria, Yemen, Morocco and China leaving one to ask the question is there a common denominator among all of the protests?
Ayatollah Khamenei said the Egyptian uprising was anti-American. He has also stated that all similar Islam events are for the removal of American influences from the Middle East. I’m willing to say the Wisconsin uprising is anti-American as well.
Since president Soetoro has said that he is backing the Egyptian, uprisings, which the Ayatollah claimed are anti-American, and since the president has said he is backing the Union uprisings in Wisconsin which are anti-government, it is not difficult to see what the foreign and domestic political unrest both have in common.
http://creatingorwellianworld-view-alaphiah.blogspot.com/2011/02/ayatollah-ali-khamenei-egypt-is-about.html
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No time for Libya or hostages
Politico44 ^ | 02/22/11 | MATT NEGRIN
President Obama is sticking to his script, and there’s no room in it for Libya or the killings of four hostages by Somali pirates.
Instead, Obama is spending his Tuesday in Cleveland spreading his message about jobs and innovation, and sitting in on some “breakout sessions” at a forum modeled after his “winning the future” rallying cry.
Obama spoke for eight minutes in the morning as he started the conference, but made no mention of the violence in Libya or of the deaths of the hostages held by Somali pirates. His press secretary, Jay Carney, told reporters on Air Force One that he was informed of the hostage deaths early Tuesday morning.
(Excerpt) Read more at politico.com ...
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Obama’s devastatingly mixed signals
Jerusalem Post ^ | 02/21/2011 | CAROLINE B. GLICK
By adopting a policy it openly hated and then condemning its own behavior, the US essentially told Israel, America is not a credible partner. Talkbacks (45) For better or worse, each passing day the Middle East is becoming more unstable. Regimes that have clung to power for decades are now being overthrown and threatened. Others are preemptively cracking down on their opponents or seeking to appease them.
While no one can say with certainty what the future will bring to the radically altered Middle Eastern landscape, it is becoming increasingly apparent that US influence over events here will be dramatically diminished.
This assessment is based on the widespread view that the Obama administration has failed to articulate a coherent policy for contending with the rising populist tides.
Last Friday’s UN Security Council vote was a case in point. On the one hand, the US vetoed a Lebanese-sponsored resolution that criminalized Israel’s policy of permitting Jews to exercise their property rights in Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria. On the other, after vetoing the resolution, US Ambassador to the UN Susan Rice and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton condemned their own actions and explained why what they did was wrong.
As Rice put it in her explanation of the vote: “We reject in the strongest terms the legitimacy of continued Israeli settlement activity. For more than four decades, Israeli settlement activity in territories occupied in 1967 has undermined Israel’s security and corroded hopes for peace and stability in the region. Continued settlement activity violates Israel’s international commitments, devastates trust between the parties, and threatens the prospects for peace….
“While we agree with our fellow Council members – and indeed, with the wider world – about the folly and illegitimacy of continued Israeli settlement activity, we think it unwise for this Council to attempt to resolve the core issues that divide Israelis and Palestinians. We therefore regrettably have opposed this draft resolution.”
It is important at the outset to point out that Rice’s claims are either wrong or debatable. Israel has not committed itself to barring Jews from exercising property rights in Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria. Permitting Jewish construction in these areas does not violate Israel’s international commitments.
Moreover, there is no firm international legal basis for declaring Jewish neighborhoods and villages in these areas illegal.
It is far from clear that Jewish neighborhoods, cities and villages in these areas harm prospects for peace or undermine trust between Israelis and Arabs. Jews built far more homes back when Israel was signing agreements with the Palestinians.
Finally, it is far easier to form a coherent argument explaining how these communities strengthen Israel’s security than an argument that they endanger it.
BUT BEYOND the basic falseness of Rice’s statement, her condemnation of her own vote to veto the resolution, and Clinton’s similar statements, serve to send a series of messages to the states in the region that are devastating to US regional posture.
Friday’s Security Council vote marked a new peak in the Fatah-controlled, US-sponsored Palestinian Authority’s political war against Israel. The war’s aim is to delegitimize the Jewish state in order to foment its collapse on the model of apartheid South Africa.
To advance this aim, the Palestinians seek to isolate Israel internationally by criminalizing it in international arenas. The Palestinians have made intense use of all UN bodies to achieve their goal. With automatic majorities in nearly every UN body, the most obvious impediment to the Palestinians’ bid to criminalize Israel and thus bring about its international isolation is the US’s Security Council veto.
Since the Palestinians first began using the UN to criminalize Israel in the 1970s, it has been the consistent policy of all US administrations to use the Security Council veto to either vote down anti-Israel initiatives or remove them from the agenda by threatening to veto them.
But then came US President Barack Obama with his expressed interest in reconciling the US with the anti- American and anti-Israel majorities in all UN bodies. To this end, Obama has refused to commit himself to using the veto to prevent the criminalization of Israel.
Capitalizing on Obama’s position, the Palestinians tried to make it as hard and politically costly as possible for Obama to support Israel.
Friday’s vote was months in the making and it was clearly inspired by the Obama administration’s own policies.
Since entering office, the president has been outspoken in his view that Jews must be denied their property rights in Jerusalem neighborhoods outside the 1949 armistice lines, and in Judea and Samaria. Obama has repeatedly plunged US-Israel relations into crisis with his unprecedented demand that the Netanyahu government adopt his discriminatory policies and deny Jews the right to their property in these areas.
Obama’s obsession with barring Jewish property rights provided the Palestinians with the opening to undermine US support for Israel at the Security Council. By putting forward a resolution condemning Israel for upholding Jewish property rights, the Palestinians forced Obama to choose between his principles and the US alliance with Israel.
As the Palestinians rightly saw things, the resolution put them in a win-win situation. Had he allowed the resolution to pass, Obama would have given the Palestinians a strategic victory. If he vetoed the resolution, he would be decried as a hypocrite and thus provide the Palestinians with new justification for refusing to participate in US-mediated negotiations with Israel. Since their goal is to delegitimize Israel, the Palestinians have no interest in negotiating a peace deal with its government.
IN THE weeks leading up to Friday’s vote, both houses of the US Congress made it absolutely clear to Obama that abandoning Israel would be unacceptable. Obama and Clinton received letter after letter signed by hundreds of congressmen and scores of senators demanding that he stand with Israel. Recognizing the legislators were simply reflecting the overwhelming support Israel enjoys from the American public, Obama was forced to veto the resolution.
Had he been interested in preventing Friday’s vote, he certainly had ample means to do so. He could have told Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas months ago that the administration would veto any anti-Israel resolution brought before the Security Council. Even if Abbas had insisted on pushing forward with the resolution, a strong, consistent message from the administration would have minimized the significance of the event.
Obama could also have used the Security Council’s deliberations on the resolution as a means of advancing US regional influence. The resolution was sponsored by Lebanon, today controlled by Hezbollah – an illegal terrorist organization.
Obama could have capitalized on this fact not only to justify his veto, but to force the subject of Hezbollah control over Lebanon onto the UN agenda. Such a move would have advanced US interests twice. It would have insulated Obama from Palestinian rebuke and it would have demonstrated that the US has not accepted Iranian colonization of Lebanon through its Hezbollah proxy.
BUT INSTEAD, the administration adopted a policy it openly hated and then condemned its own behavior. In so doing, it sent four deeply problematic messages to the region.
First, it signaled that it is deeply unserious.
Second, it signaled to the Palestinians that, while blocked by popular US support for Israel from joining them, the administration supports the PA’s political war against Israel. That is, Obama told the Palestinians to continue this war against Israel.
Third, the administration told Israel – and all its other allies – that in the era of Obama, the US is not a credible ally. Not only does this message weaken America’s allies, it emboldens the likes of Iran and Syria and the Muslim Brotherhood who are increasingly convinced that the US will not stand by its allies in a pinch.
Finally, by standing by as Abbas pushed forward with the resolution despite Obama’s repeatedly stated opposition, the president showed all actors in the region that there is no price to be paid for defying the US. Obama did not announce that he is ending US financial support for Fatah. He did not state that the US is ending its training of the Fatah forces. Instead, he sent Rice before the cameras to tell the world that he agrees with the Palestinians, who just slapped him in the face.
The question is why is the administration behaving this way? The obvious answer is that it really does side with the Arabs against Israel. Pushing this view is the fact that since taking office, Obama has been consistently hostile to Israel and its strategic interests.
There is another possible explanation, however: That the administration is simply too incompetent to understand the significance of its actions. This explanation appears increasingly credible in light of the US’s ham-fisted handling of the revolutions raging throughout the Arab world.
In Egypt, the administration did not simply show America’s closest ally in the Arab world the door. By legitimizing the Muslim Brotherhood, Obama has paved the way for the next Egyptian crisis.
At the latest, this crisis will occur in September with the scheduled elections. At that point, three scenarios will arise.
1. The ruling military junta may cancel the elections and foment another rebellion.
2. If the military permits free and fair elections, the Muslim Brotherhood will become the most potent force in Egypt due to its unmatched organizational capacity.
After the elections the Muslim Brotherhood may adopt the model of Turkey’s Islamist AKP party and move Egypt into the Iranian camp while pretending it is still a US ally.
3. After the elections, the Muslim Brotherhood may adopt the Khomeinist model and foment an Islamic revolution in Egypt.
IN ALL these scenarios, America’s strategic interests will be placed in jeopardy. But presently, it is far from clear that the Obama administration recognizes that these are the consequences of the policies it adopted.
Then there is Saudi Arabia. By supporting the anti- Mubarak forces in Egypt and the Iranian-backed demonstrators in Bahrain and Yemen, the administration has destroyed the US alliance with the Saudis.
This may or may not be a positive development.
Saudi Arabia has been one of the most radicalizing forces in the Middle East at the same time that it has been the steady engine behind the world’s oil economy.
Nevertheless, it’s unlikely that the current US government recognizes either that it has taken place, or that it has taken place in large measure as a consequence of its behavior.
From an Israeli perspective, whether motivated by an animus towards Israel or extraordinary incompetence, the Obama administration’s Middle East policies offer one message: We can only rely on ourselves and so we’d better strengthen ourselves as much as possible as quickly as possible in every possible way.
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Medvedev sees `fires for decades' in Arab world
By DAVID NOWAK, Associated Press David Nowak, Associated Press
Tue Feb 22, 8:16 am ET
.MOSCOW – Russian President Dmitry Medvedev on Tuesday predicted decades of instability in the Arab world if protesters whom he called fanatics come to power, adding no such scenario will be permitted at home.
Medvedev's words fall in sharp contrast with the European Union, which said in a statement on Monday that it "deplores the violence" and "repression" against the pro-democracy protesters by authorities in one of the troublespots, Libya.
Speaking at a security meeting in the Caucasus city of Vladikavkaz, Medvedev didn't name countries, but he was referring to the crisis in the Middle East and North Africa — which has brought down governments in Tunisia and Egypt and sparked protests in Libya, Yemen, Bahrain, Iran, Morocco and Jordan.
"These states are difficult, and it is quite probable that hard times are ahead, including the arrival at power of fanatics. This will mean fires for decades and the spread of extremism," Medvedev said in televised comments.
Any attempts to repeat the unrest in Russia would be quashed, he said.
"They have prepared such a scenario for us before, and now more than ever they will try and realize it. In any case, this scenario won't succeed," he said, without identifying the people he considers could threaten the Kremlin.
Russia has crushed Islamist separatists in two wars in Chechnya in the last 15 years, and continues to battle a lingering insurgency in the wider Caucasus region. The region is the epicenter of terrorism in Russia, with most of the high-profile attacks in recent years claimed by or attributed to Caucasus rebels.
In the past Medvedev also has warned domestic political opponents that they won't be permitted to "rock the boat," and he has continued the policy of his tough predecessor, Vladimir Putin, in sanctioning the violent dispersal of anti-government protests.
Opposition activists have been beaten and imprisoned under their rule. Putin, who wields greater power despite holding lower rank, warned demonstrators in a September newspaper interview that "you will be beaten upside the head with a truncheon. And that's it."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110222/ap_on_re_eu/eu_russia_medvedev/print
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NBC:
Kadafi has hired mercinaries from Africa which are carrying out the artocities against people in Libya.
While many in his army support the people, they are powerless to stop his own security unit which is massacaring people as they please.
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I have not figured out if obama is the most inept, incompetent, idiotic, ignorant , and historically illiterate president of all time or whether he is just trying to set the world and USA ablaze.
Either way, the end result will be the same.
Hope and change morons!
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What do you want him to do? The people are rising against their corrupt leaders not much he can do about it
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What do you want him to do? The people are rising against their corrupt leaders not much he can do about it
You think this all came about by chance all at the same time now? Guess who is behind all of this? And please dont say Facebook or Twitter.
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The President's Deafening Silence on Libya
The Weekly Standard ^ | February 22, 2011 | Lee Smith
After almost a week of escalating violent reprisals against protestors and soldiers who have joined the anti-regime forces, Libya’s Muammar Qaddafi and his sons have yet to quell the uprisings—and the White House has yet to take a public stand. Last night, Secretary Clinton released a statement, and pathetic as it was, it’s more than the president has offered—a president who has spent considerable energy burnishing his image for the Muslim and Arab public.
It is rumored that there are differences within the administration, but it is still unclear who could be counseling silence, or for what purpose. To be sure, the Bush administration neutered Qaddafi with the 2003 invasion of Iraq, leaving him to believe he was next on Washington’s agenda. He dropped his nuclear weapons program and stopped sponsoring terrorism—but Qaddafi is not a U.S. ally, and with his treatment of his Libyan citizens he has shown he is the same old Qaddafi, a danger to his own people as well as the rest of the world.
The Obama administration would do well to exercise some moral clarity regarding a man whose personal demeanor has long symbolized the most repressively autocratic and obscurantist features of Arab political culture—a man who reportedly has now, among other things, dispatched his air force to put down the people he rules. The White House’s silence is perhaps explained by the idea that a public statement will do more harm than good.
(Excerpt) Read more at weeklystandard.com ...
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You think this all came about by chance all at the same time now? Guess who is behind all of this? And please dont say Facebook or Twitter.
I assume you have solid proof of this? ::)
Other than the by product of your fractured mind wrestling with reality.
So please share. Otherwise we will just make note of more delusional ramblings from you.
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I assume you have solid proof of this? ::)
Other than the by product of your fractured mind wrestling with reality.
So please share. Otherwise we will just make note of more delusional ramblings from you.
Iran you dope. They are trying to destabilize the entire region using proxies all over the place so they can corner the oil market.
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I have not figured out if obama is the most inept, incompetent, idiotic, ignorant , and historically illiterate president of all time or whether he is just trying to set the world and USA ablaze.
Either way, the end result will be the same.
Hope and change morons!
Are you that much of an idiot?....how is what is going on in the mideast Obama's fault???....and if you are going to blame Obama, then also give him the credit when all of these countries have true democracies.....but we all know how unfair you are so that won't happen
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Are you that much of an idiot?....how is what is going on in the mideast Obama's fault???....and if you are going to blame Obama, then also give him the credit when all of these countries have true democracies.....but we all know how unfair you are so that won't happen
I won't have to give him credit for anything since there will never be democracy over there. That is more delusional wishful thinking on your part.
Other than Israel, please tell me a functioning democracy in the ME.
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Are you that much of an idiot?....how is what is going on in the mideast Obama's fault???....and if you are going to blame Obama, then also give him the credit when all of these countries have true democracies.....but we all know how unfair you are so that won't happen
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Are you that much of an idiot?....how is what is going on in the mideast Obama's fault???....and if you are going to blame Obama, then also give him the credit when all of these countries have true democracies.....but we all know how unfair you are so that won't happen
"True democracy", hahaha. What a naive and moronic fool you are. There are 55 or so Muslim-dominated countries on the planet. Of those 55, exactly 3 qualify as democracies, and that 3 includes the likes of the terrorist state of Pakistan, which barely qualifies as a democracy. True democracy will never exist in the Middle East as it is completely incompatible with Sharia Law.
But you go ahead and keep living in fantasy land. ::)
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and if you are going to blame Obama, then also give him the credit when all of these countries have true democracies.....
What exactly did he do to bring about democracies in these countries? Just because he was president of the USA during the political upheavals in those countries doesn't automatically earn him any credit. What foreign diplomacies did he use or put into effect that brought about such change?
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Iran you dope. They are trying to destabilize the entire region using proxies all over the place so they can corner the oil market.
IRAN???...they were caught by surprise just like the rest of us in the world....Iran doesn't have the influence or reach to coordinate all of these multiple uprisings occuring at the same time....the Arabs themselves FINALLY woke up and realized it was their own leaders who are the enemy..not the U.S. or Israel.....all of these uprisings actually scare Iran because it could spread to them again as well.....your delusional thinking is amazing!!!...what is going on in that head of yours???..you have got to donate your brain to science so we can see what a delusional schizophrenic is and how maybe we can find a cure!
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IRAN???...they were caught by surprise just like the rest of us in the world....Iran doesn't have the influence or reach to coordinate all of these multiple uprisings occuring at the same time....the Arabs themselves FINALLY woke up and realized it was their own leaders who are the enemy..not the U.S. or Israel.....all of these uprisings actually scare Iran because it could spread to them again as well.....your delusional thinking is amazing!!!...what is going on in that head of yours???..you have got to donate your brain to science so we can see what a delusional schizophrenic is and how maybe we can find a cure!
Serious question - do you read?
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What exactly did he do to bring about democracies in these countries? Just because he was president of the USA during the political upheavals in those countries doesn't automatically earn him any credit. What foreign diplomacies did he use or put into effect that brought about such change?
we forget Obama's famous speech in Egypt where he said that democracy and reform must occur in order to meet the aspirations of the arab people...he also spoke out against terorrism and radical Islam..NO OTHER AMERICAN PRESIDENT HAD EVER DONE SO ON ARAB SOIL....CALLING FOR REFORM....change begins with the willingness to speak out and confront the issue..just as Ronald Reagan did when he confronted and spoke out against the soviets....Obama did the same thing...but of course since you don't have critical thinking skills, you won't see it or acknowledge it
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What exactly did he do to bring about democracies in these countries? Just because he was president of the USA during the political upheavals in those countries doesn't automatically earn him any credit. What foreign diplomacies did he use or put into effect that brought about such change?
Andre already alluded to Obama being the reason Mubarak is out. When in reality Obama couldn't even get Mubarak to take his phone call.
Serious question - do you read?
Only what Obama says. He's pretty clueless.
we forget Obama's famous speech in Egypt where he said that democracy and reform must occur in order to meet the aspirations of the arab people...he also spoke out against terorrism and radical Islam..NO OTHER AMERICAN PRESIDENT HAD EVER DONE SO ON ARAB SOIL....CALLING FOR REFORM....change begins with the willingness to speak out and confront the issue..just as Ronald Reagan did when he confronted and spoke out against the soviets....Obama did the same thing...but of course since you don't have critical thinking skills, you won't see it or acknowledge it
His approval rating with Egyptians has monumentally tanked since that speech. It had nothing whatsoever to do with these uprisings. The catalyst was the self-immolation in Tunisia, not your GodKing.
Constant flip-flopping = job well done!
You might be the worst Obama-drone yet. Still waiting for you to refute Ferguson, too.
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Serious question - do you read?
I hope you asked this question while standing in front of a mirror
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we forget Obama's famous speech in Egypt where he said that democracy and reform must occur in order to meet the aspirations of the arab people...he also spoke out against terorrism and radical Islam..NO OTHER AMERICAN PRESIDENT HAD EVER DONE SO ON ARAB SOIL....CALLING FOR REFORM....change begins with the willingness to speak out and confront the issue..just as Ronald Reagan did when he confronted and spoke out against the soviets....Obama did the same thing...but of course since you don't have critical thinking skills, you won't see it or acknowledge it
WWWWTTTFFFF ? ? ?
Cairo speech? Damn you are blind. And please - Reagan? Do you think Reagan's sole speech was his sole move on tackling communism? Seriously?
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Andre already alluded to Obama being the reason Mubarak is out. When in reality Obama couldn't even get Mubarak to take his phone call.
Only what Obama says. He's pretty clueless.
the reality is Mubarak left and did not fight because he knew Obama was not behind him....you believe what facts you want to believe....its funny you believe that Mubarak would not take Obama's cal but won't believe that Obama pushed MubaraK OUT...AGAIN...YOU BELIEVE IN YOUR OWN REALITY
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WWWWTTTFFFF ? ? ?
Cairo speech? Damn you are blind. And please - Reagan? Do you think Reagan's sole speech was his sole move on tackling communism? Seriously?
Flip-flopping up to 2x a day every day for a week = consistent, powerful leadership. ::)
the reality is Mubarak left and did not fight because he knew Obama was not behind him....you believe what facts you want to believe....its funny you believe that Mubarak would not take Obama's cal but won't believe that Obama pushed MubaraK OUT...AGAIN...YOU BELIEVE IN YOUR OWN REALITY
Hahahaha, what a stupid fuck. Believe your own reality...as convoluted, fantastical and conjured as it is.
The one and only thing Obama accomplished with Egypt was showing how woefully inexperienced he and everyone else in his administration is.
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WWWWTTTFFFF ? ? ?
Cairo speech? Damn you are blind. And please - Reagan? Do you think Reagan's sole speech was his sole move on tackling communism? Seriously?
and do you think Obama's speech was HIS sole move?....you believe only what you want to bel believe/.....Obama has ben kicking the asses of militants with his increased drone bombings and support for democratic groups in Arab countries....
but of course you won't believe that....
COME ON!
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You keep going on about backroom dealings and what not yet you haven't given a single example. Couple that with your refusal to actually refute Ferguson's clip only shows that you don't know shit and are merely regurgitating the same talking points the morons on MSNBC have been spouting.
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we forget Obama's famous speech in Egypt where he said that democracy and reform must occur in order to meet the aspirations of the arab people...he also spoke out against terorrism and radical Islam..NO OTHER AMERICAN PRESIDENT HAD EVER DONE SO ON ARAB SOIL....CALLING FOR REFORM....change begins with the willingness to speak out and confront the issue..just as Ronald Reagan did when he confronted and spoke out against the soviets....Obama did the same thing...but of course since you don't have critical thinking skills, you won't see it or acknowledge it
Hahahaah!!!
So he repeated what Bush stated years prior, but because he did it on ARAB SOIL somehow that is more POWERFUL and effective.
Ronald Reagan didn't just speak out against the soviets. He outspend them into oblivion. See how that works? A president can say all he wants, but if he doesn't take any action to cause about change then it doesn't matter what he says. By your own dumb logic, BUSH deserves as much credit as Obama.
You did not answer my question. What foreign diplomacy did he use or put into effect that brought about such change? So much for your critical thinking skills.
Epic fishing for something positive in the most incompetent administration ever.
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Hahahaah!!!
So he repeated what Bush stated years prior, but because he did it on ARAB SOIL somehow that is more POWERFUL and effective.
Ronald Reagan didn't just speak out the soviets. He outspend them into oblivion. See how that works? A president can say all he wants, but if he doesn't take any action to cause about change then it doesn't matter what he says. By your own dumb logic, BUSH deserves as much credit as Obama.
You did not answere my question. What foreign diplomacy did he use or put into effect that brought about such change? So much for your critical thinking skills.
Epic fishing for something positive in the most incompetent administration ever.
I've been asking him to answer my questions for days now and he refuses to. He just responds with, "Well, Obama is doing backroom dealings and you're a fool for not thinking he's working in the shadows". Of course, he can't provide a single example. Most likely because MSNBC hasn't fed him any examples to use. Typical Obama drone.
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Andre already alluded to Obama being the reason Mubarak is out. When in reality Obama couldn't even get Mubarak to take his phone call.
Only what Obama says. He's pretty clueless.
His approval rating with Egyptians has monumentally tanked since that speech. It had nothing whatsoever to do with these uprisings. The catalyst was the self-immolation in Tunisia, not your GodKing.
Constant flip-flopping = job well done!
You might be the worst Obama-drone yet. Still waiting for you to refute Ferguson, too.
x1000
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Obama didnt handle shit. Please, you fools are desperate to latch on to anything, just anything, to make this collosal failure look good.
Every single thing this faux messiah has touched has gotten far worse.
BUMP
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Iranian Vessels Which Crossed Suez Canal Carry "Advanced Hezbollah Weapons" -- Israel
KUNA ^ | February 23, 2011
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The two Iranian naval ships which crossed the Suez Canal to the Mediterranean Tuesday morning are carrying "advanced Hezbollah weapons," Maariv Israeli paper reported on Wednesday, citing sources.
The sources told the paper, "Estimates indicate the two ships are carrying missiles of different range, rifles, ammunition, and night-vision gear... The voyage of the two ships is an Iranian attempt to go around the arms embargo on Hezbollah."
The paper also said that it is believed the voyage is an attempt on the part of the Iranians to "test the waters" with and gauge the responses of the Egyptian Supreme Military Council and its stance towards Tehran.
(Excerpt) Read more at kuna.net.kw ...
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I've been asking him to answer my questions for days now and he refuses to. He just responds with, "Well, Obama is doing backroom dealings and you're a fool for not thinking he's working in the shadows". Of course, he can't provide a single example. Most likely because MSNBC hasn't fed him any examples to use. Typical Obama drone.
I already told you why I don't answer questions from you or bring evidence...why argue with myself?....you won't believe the evidence anyway and will just stick to your point and continjue on and on...so why bother?..guys like you and 3333 don't really care about the truth//you only want to further your agenda so this is not really a debate...I come here to put forth my opinion just as you do.....I go to other forums for actual debate where there is actual give and take
sorry...but thats how it really is
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I've been asking him to answer my questions for days now and he refuses to. He just responds with, "Well, Obama is doing backroom dealings and you're a fool for not thinking he's working in the shadows". Of course, he can't provide a single example. Most likely because MSNBC hasn't fed him any examples to use. Typical Obama drone.
I never watch MSNBC..I only watch CNN....sorry if that pisses you off...you can't provide examples either and all you do is refute what I say without any thought whatsover...
Also I am NOT an Obama drone for a I supported Bush as well....I always hated the disrespect that people showed him
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I already told you why I don't answer questions from you or bring evidence...why argue with myself?....you won't believe the evidence anyway and will just stick to your point and continjue on and on...so why bother?..guys like you and 3333 don't really care about the truth//you only want to further your agenda so this is not really a debate...I come here to put forth my opinion just as you do.....I go to other forums for actual debate where there is actual give and take
sorry...but thats how it really is
What other forums.
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Responding to the same post of mine twice and still refusing to refute anything = thanks for playing. Feel free to refute Ferguson any time you feel like it. Surely you, who is privy to the back-room dealings going on, can destroy every point Ferguson made, right?
You won't refute him because you can't. Everything he said is 100% spot-on. :D :D :D :D
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Responding to the same post of mine twice and still refusing to refute anything = thanks for playing. Feel free to refute Ferguson any time you feel like it. Surely you, who is privy to the back-room dealings going on, can destroy every point Ferguson made, right?
You won't refute him because you can't. Everything he said is 100% spot-on. :D :D :D :D
sigh......Ferguson is one expert of many..I have seen many other experts on TV who say the opposite...that the U.S. is doing the right thing by not getting too deeply involved publicly and that Obama is doing the right thing..again I choose not to post TV clips because it is a complete waste of time to do so in this forum with guys like you...you won't listen to any expert unless they agree with you.....again..I cited Boehner and you guys just tore him down, said he had no credibility, and basically said he was as bad as Obama....which proves my point..even a guy like him who thinks like you guys do can't convince you..so why should I???
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sigh......Ferguson is one expert of many..I have seen many other experts on TV who say the opposite...that the U.S. is doing the right thing by not getting too deeply involved publicly and that Obama is doing the right thing..again I choose not to post TV clips because it is a complete waste of time to do so in this forum with guys like you...you won't listen to any expert unless they agree with you.....again..I cited Boehner and you guys just tore him down, said he had no credibility, and basically said he was as bad as Obama....which proves my point..even a guy like him who thinks like you guys do can't convince you..so why should I???
Because I don't need Bohner to make up my mind one way or the other. explain in your own words what obama has done so brilliantly here?
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UPDATE 1-Egypt protesters set cars alight in Cairo
Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:12pm GMT
Print | Single Page[-] Text - (Adds more detail from scene)[/b]
CAIRO Feb 23 (Reuters) - About six vehicles were set on fire outside the Interior Ministry in Cairo on Wednesday, and witnesses said the blazes were caused by disaffected police officers demanding their jobs back.
Officials were not immediately available for comment. A security source earlier said a fire had erupted at a building used to store criminal evidence near to the Interior Ministry.
Tanks and soldiers are still at intersections in Egypt's capital after Hosni Mubarak was toppled in an 18-day uprising during which the ruling headquarters was burned down in Cairo and police stations were set on fire throughout the country.
Plain-clothed policemen and soldiers cordoned off the area around the ministry on Wednesday, pushing away hundreds of onlookers who came to see the burning vehicles.
The ministry has been surrounded by army vehicles since the military deployed on Cairo streets on Jan. 28.
Witnesses to Wednesday's incidents said the former officers poured petrol over the vehicles and set them alight. At least four fire trucks and four ambulances rushed to the scene. It was not clear if the perpetrators had escaped.
"The ministry had told them they could have their jobs back, but when they went with their papers they were told to use the paper to drink water out of," said one witness, 30, who gave his name as Ashraf and had come to the ministry with his brother, a police officer who had lost his job. (Reporting by Patrick Werr and Sarah Mikhail, editing by Peter Millership)
© Thomson Reuters 2011 All rights reserved
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sigh......Ferguson is one expert of many..I have seen many other experts on TV who say the opposite...that the U.S. is doing the right thing by not getting too deeply involved publicly and that Obama is doing the right thing..again I choose not to post TV clips because it is a complete waste of time to do so in this forum with guys like you...you won't listen to any expert unless they agree with you.....again..I cited Boehner and you guys just tore him down, said he had no credibility, and basically said he was as bad as Obama....which proves my point..even a guy like him who thinks like you guys do can't convince you..so why should I???
Hahaha, you keep referencing Boehner as if he means something. This is a guy you far-lefties disagree with 99% of the time. The one time he makes nice and agrees with your GodKing, apparently he's an expert. Too funny.
6 pages of rambling diatribe and you still won't refute anything. Ramble, ramble, ramble. Fucking drone.
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Hahaha, you keep referencing Boehner as if he means something. This is a guy you far-lefties disagree with 99% of the time. The one time he makes nice and agrees with your GodKing, apparently he's an expert. Too funny.
6 pages of rambling diatribe and you still won't refute anything. Ramble, ramble, ramble. Fucking drone.
I'm waiting for "its for the children" or something like that. ;D
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I'm waiting for "its for the children" or something like that. ;D
Hahaha. Qaradawi, the spiritual head of the MB, was already asking the Coptic Christians to bow in submission to Islam at his prayers on Friday. A Coptic Christian priest was gunned down in his church yesterday, too. Egypt's definitely headed for good things. ::)
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Hahaha, you keep referencing Boehner as if he means something. This is a guy you far-lefties disagree with 99% of the time. The one time he makes nice and agrees with your GodKing, apparently he's an expert. Too funny.
6 pages of rambling diatribe and you still won't refute anything. Ramble, ramble, ramble. Fucking drone.
harte
well first of all 3333 did the same thing when he referenced Tim Geithner....3333 hates Geithner with a passion..yet when Geithner said that Obamas budget was a disaster, 3333 cited this to criticize Obama and even posted Geithner's comments....
I did the same thing with Boehner....
I do acknowledge that Geithner is right.....he is on Obama's financial team..if he says the budget is bad then it must be true.....
unfortunately you and 3333 could not bring yourself to do the same with Boehner.....even though both of you agree with Boehner 99% of the time as well....
Jesus guys.....the hypocrisy continues.....THINK
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Geithner stated a fact. Boehner offered an opinion.
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Geithner stated a fact. Boehner offered an opinion.
In your opinion he stated a fact........In my opinion Boehner stated a fact as well...before, you said that Geithner was one of the biggest liars around... NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN he is a god of wisdom because he said something you agree with
THINK
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Hahaha. Qaradawi, the spiritual head of the MB, was already asking the Coptic Christians to bow in submission to Islam at his prayers on Friday. A Coptic Christian priest was gunned down in his church yesterday, too. Egypt's definitely headed for good things. ::)
Egypt is headed for whatever its headed for....how is that our fault?..or Obama's?
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Only someone completly doped up and cracked out on meth could think obamas budget is anything but a fiscal wmd. Even geitner said so, let alone the almost universal condemnation of that disaster, including outlets like the wash post.
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Only someone completly doped up and cracked out on meth could think obamas budget is anything but a fiscal wmd. Even geitner said so, let alone the almost universal condemnation of that disaster, including outlets like the wash post.
okay..so again, Geithner is a great God of wisdom...and Boehner isn't?
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harte
well first of all 3333 did the same thing when he referenced Tim Geithner....3333 hates Geithner with a passion..yet when Geithner said that Obamas budget was a disaster, 3333 cited this to criticize Obama and even posted Geithner's comments....
I did the same thing with Boehner....
I do acknowledge that Geithner is right.....he is on Obama's financial team..if he says the budget is bad then it must be true.....
unfortunately you and 3333 could not bring yourself to do the same with Boehner.....even though both of you agree with Boehner 99% of the time as well....
Jesus guys.....the hypocrisy continues.....THINK
I'm guessing you don't read the board much, but you're just making shit up out of the blue. 33 and BF siding with Boehner 99% of the time?
::)
Of course, given the fact that you seem to make up shit about what Obama's doing behind the scenes I guess this is just par for the course.
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Obama presented geithner as a financial genius and the sole person tbtf to be tres secretary.
Boehner has never held himself out, nor has anyone else for that matter, ever held out boehner as a foriegn policy expert.
That is why geithers claim that obamas budget is a disaster is more relevant and noteworthy than boehners comment.
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Obama presented geithner as a financial genius and the sole person tbtf to be tres secretary.
Boehner has never held himself out, nor has anyone else for that matter, ever held out boehner as a foriegn policy expert.
That is why geithers claim that obamas budget is a disaster is more relevant and noteworthy than boehners comment.
Certainly wouldn't want him out mingling with other countries. That crying bitch would make us look like a nation of "girly men".
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Obama presented geithner as a financial genius and the sole person tbtf to be tres secretary.
Boehner has never held himself out, nor has anyone else for that matter, ever held out boehner as a foriegn policy expert.
That is why geithers claim that obamas budget is a disaster is more relevant and noteworthy than boehners comment.
so you are admitting you're a hypocrite???..you're sucking Geithner's cock now? After proclaiming for many months how much u couldn't stand him?
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Team Obama Botches Libya Evacuation, Charters Wrong Boat (while Obama parties to Motown)
Fox News Nation ^ | Friday February 25, 2011
The U.S. government came under fire today for chartering a rescue boat for Americans stuck in Libya that is too small to cope with the rough Mediterranean sea.
Hundreds of American citizens were finally set to depart Tripoli harbour aboard the Maria Dolores, a small passenger ferry chartered by the U.S., trapped there by rouigh seas.
At the same time larger Greek and Turkish vessels have transported thousands of their own citizens to safety, crossing the choppy water to mainland Europe.
(Excerpt) Read more at nation.foxnews.com ...
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Didn't you know that Islam was in Egypt before the Copts were? Never mind that Islam is 1400 years old as revisionist history (a favorite of the far-left) works wonders.
The silence of the far-left as Christians and other non-Muslims face ever-increasing persecution in the Muslim world is pretty pathetic. Guess they're too busy fabricating "islamophobia".
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Didn't you know that Islam was in Egypt before the Copts were? Never mind that Islam is 1400 years old as revisionist history (a favorite of the far-left) works wonders.
The silence of the far-left as Christians and other non-Muslims face ever-increasing persecution in the Muslim world is pretty pathetic. Guess they're too busy fabricating "islamophobia".
Far leftists view islamists as fellow travelers in the war on the West. The old adage "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" is perfectly fitting for these dopes even though they would be the first to get their throats slit. But thats' ok to them, so long as the war goes on against Western Civ.
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Far leftists view islamists as fellow travelers in the war on the West. The old adage "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" is perfectly fitting for these dopes even though they would be the first to get their throats slit. But thats' ok to them, so long as the war goes on against Western Civ.
True. They were allies in Iran....right up until the Mullahs imprisoned and purged the majority of the commie/socialist trash from their ranks and installed the Islamic state Iran is today. One would think these people would learn (hahahaha, yeah right).
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fighting words
Is Barack Obama Secretly Swiss?
The administration's pathetic, dithering response to the Arab uprisings has been both cynical and naive.
By Christopher Hitchens
Posted Friday, Feb. 25, 2011, at 11:41 AM ET
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However meanly and grudgingly, even the new Republican speaker has now conceded that the president is Hawaiian-born and some kind of Christian. So let's hope that's the end of all that. A more pressing question now obtrudes itself: Is Barack Obama secretly Swiss?
Let me explain what I mean. A Middle Eastern despot now knows for sure when his time in power is well and truly up. He knows it when his bankers in Zurich or Geneva cease accepting his transfers and responding to his confidential communications and instead begin the process of "freezing" his assets and disclosing their extent and their whereabouts to investigators in his long-exploited country. And, at precisely that moment, the U.S. government also announces that it no longer recognizes the said depositor as the duly constituted head of state. Occasionally, there is a little bit of "raggedness" in the coordination. CIA Director Leon Panetta testified to Congress that Hosni Mubarak would "step down" a day before he actually did so. But the whole charm of the CIA is that its intelligence-gathering is always a few beats off when compared with widespread general knowledge. Generally, though, the White House and the State Department have their timepieces and reactions set to Swiss coordinates.
This is not merely a matter of the synchronizing of announcements. The Obama administration also behaves as if the weight of the United States in world affairs is approximately the same as that of Switzerland. We await developments. We urge caution, even restraint. We hope for the formation of an international consensus. And, just as there is something despicable about the way in which Swiss bankers change horses, so there is something contemptible about the way in which Washington has been affecting—and perhaps helping to bring about—American impotence. Except that, whereas at least the Swiss have the excuse of cynicism, American policy manages to be both cynical and naive.
This has been especially evident in the case of Libya. For weeks, the administration dithered over Egypt and calibrated its actions to the lowest and slowest common denominators, on the grounds that it was difficult to deal with a rancid old friend and ally who had outlived his usefulness. But then it became the turn of Muammar Qaddafi—an all-round stinking nuisance and moreover a long-term enemy—and the dithering began all over again. Until Wednesday Feb. 23, when the president made a few anodyne remarks that condemned "violence" in general but failed to cite Qaddafi in particular—every important statesman and stateswoman in the world had been heard from, with the exception of Obama. And his silence was hardly worth breaking. Echoing Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who had managed a few words of her own, he stressed only that the need was for a unanimous international opinion, as if in the absence of complete unity nothing could be done, or even attempted. This would hand an automatic veto to any of Qaddafi's remaining allies. It also underscored the impression that the opinion of the United States was no more worth hearing than that of, say, Switzerland. Secretary Clinton was then dispatched to no other destination than Geneva, where she will meet with the U.N. Human Rights Council—an absurd body that is already hopelessly tainted with Qaddafi's membership.
By the time of Obama's empty speech, even the notoriously lenient Arab League had suspended Libya's participation, and several of Qaddafi's senior diplomatic envoys had bravely defected. One of them, based in New York, had warned of the use of warplanes against civilians and called for a "no-fly zone." Others have pointed out the planes that are bringing fresh mercenaries to Qaddafi's side. In the Mediterranean, the United States maintains its Sixth Fleet, which could ground Qaddafi's air force without breaking a sweat. But wait! We have not yet heard from the Swiss admiralty, without whose input it would surely be imprudent to proceed.
Evidently a little sensitive to the related charges of being a) taken yet again completely by surprise, b) apparently without a policy of its own, and c) morally neuter, the Obama administration contrived to come up with an argument that maximized every form of feebleness. Were we to have taken a more robust or discernible position, it was argued, our diplomatic staff in Libya might have been endangered. In other words, we decided to behave as if they were already hostages! The governments of much less powerful nations, many with large expatriate populations as well as embassies in Libya, had already condemned Qaddafi's criminal behavior, and the European Union had considered sanctions, but the United States (which didn't even charter a boat for the removal of staff until Tuesday) felt obliged to act as if it were the colonel's unwilling prisoner. I can't immediately think of any precedent for this pathetic "doctrine," but I can easily see what a useful precedent it sets for any future rogue regime attempting to buy time. Leave us alone—don't even raise your voice against us—or we cannot guarantee the security of your embassy. (It wouldn't be too soon, even now, for the NATO alliance to make it plain to Qaddafi that if he even tried such a thing, he would lose his throne, and his ramshackle armed forces, and perhaps his worthless life, all in the course of one afternoon.)
Unless the administration seriously envisages a future that includes the continued private ownership of Libya and its people by Qaddafi and his terrible offspring, it's a sheer matter of prudence and realpolitik, to say nothing of principle, to adopt a policy that makes the opposite assumption. Libya is—in point of population and geography—mainly a coastline. The United States, with or without allies, has unchallengeable power in the air and on the adjacent waters. It can produce great air lifts and sea lifts of humanitarian and medical aid, which will soon be needed anyway along the Egyptian and Tunisian borders, and which would purchase undreamed-of goodwill. It has the chance to make up for its pointless, discredited tardiness with respect to events in Cairo and Tunis. It also has a president who has shown at least the capacity to deliver great speeches on grand themes. Instead, and in the crucial and formative days in which revolutions are decided, we have had to endure the futile squawkings of a cuckoo clock.
Like Slate on Facebook. Follow Slate and the Slate Foreign Desk on Twitter.
Christopher Hitchens is a columnist for Vanity Fair and the Roger S. Mertz media fellow at the Hoover Institution.
Article URL: http://www.slate.com/id/2286522
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Ha ha ha - Kaaabbboooom. Andreisowned wll never recover from that.
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Obama Is Helping Iran
How Washington's awkward handling of Middle East uprisings is playing into the hands of the Islamic Republic.
BY FLYNT AND HILLARY MANN LEVERETT | FEBRUARY 23, 2011
We take billionaire financier George Soros up on the bet he proffered to CNN's Fareed Zakaria this week that "the Iranian regime will not be there in a year's time." In fact, we want to up the ante and wager that not only will the Islamic Republic still be Iran's government in a year's time, but that a year from now, the balance of influence and power in the Middle East will be tilted more decisively in Iran's favor than it ever has been.
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Just a decade ago, on the eve of the 9/11 attacks, the United States had cultivated what American policymakers like to call a strong "moderate" camp in the region, encompassing states reasonably well-disposed toward a negotiated peace with Israel and strategic cooperation with Washington: Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the other Persian Gulf states, as well as Morocco, Tunisia, and Turkey. On the other side, the Islamic Republic had an alliance of some standing with Syria, as well as ties to relatively weak militant groups like Hamas and Hezbollah. Other "radical" states like Saddam Hussein's Iraq and Muammar al-Qaddafi's Libya were even more isolated.
Fast-forward to the eve of Barack Obama's inauguration as president of the United States, in January 2009. As a result of the Iraq war, the collapse of the Arab-Israeli peace process, and some fairly astute diplomacy by Iran and its regional allies, the balance of influence and power across the Middle East had shifted significantly against the United States. Scenarios for "weaning" Syria away from Iran were becoming ever more fanciful as relations between Damascus and Tehran became increasingly strategic in quality. Turkey, under the Justice and Development Party (AKP), was charting a genuinely independent foreign policy, including strategically consequential partnerships with Iran and Syria. Hamas and Hezbollah, legitimated by electoral successes, had emerged as decisively important political actors in Palestine and Lebanon. It was looking progressively less likely that post-Saddam Iraq would be a meaningful strategic asset for Washington and ever more likely that Baghdad's most important relationships would be with Iran, Syria, and Turkey. And, increasingly, U.S. allies like Oman and Qatar were aligning themselves with the Islamic Republic and other members of the Middle East's "resistance bloc" on high-profile issues in the Arab-Israeli arena -- as when the Qatari emir flew to Beirut a week after the 2006 Lebanon war to pledge massive reconstruction assistance to Hezbollah strongholds in the south and publicly defended Hezbollah's retention of its military capabilities.
On Obama's watch, the regional balance of influence and power has shifted even further away from the United States and toward Iran and its allies. The Islamic Republic has continued to deepen its alliances with Syria and Turkey and expand its influence in Iraq, Lebanon, and Palestine. Public opinion polls, for example, continue to show that the key leaders in the Middle East's resistance bloc -- Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Syrian President Bashar Assad, Lebanon's Hassan Nasrallah, Hamas's Khaled Mishaal, and Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan -- are all vastly more popular across the region than their counterparts in closely U.S.-aligned and supported regimes in Jordan, the Palestinian Authority, and Saudi Arabia.
And, now, the Obama administration stands by helplessly as new openings for Tehran to reset the regional balance in its favor emerge in Bahrain, Egypt, Tunisia, Yemen, and perhaps elsewhere. If these "pro-American" Arab political orders currently being challenged or upended by significant protest movements become at all more representative of their populations, they will no doubt become less enthusiastic about strategic cooperation with the United States. And, if these "pro-American" regimes are not replaced by salafi-dominated Islamist orders, the Arab governments that emerge from the present turmoil are likely to be at least somewhat receptive to Iran's message of "resistance" and independence from Israel and the West.
Certainly, any government in Cairo that is even mildly more representative than Hosni Mubarak's regime will not be willing to keep collaborating with Israel to enforce the siege of Gaza or to continue participating in the CIA's rendition program to bring Egyptians back to Egypt to be tortured. Likewise, any political order in Bahrain that respected the reality of that country's Shiite-majority population would be firmly opposed to the use of its territory as a platform for U.S. military action against Iranian interests.
Over the next year, all these developments will shift the regional balance even more against the United States and in favor of Iran. If Jordan -- a loyal U.S. client state -- were to come into play during this period, that would tilt things even further in Iran's direction.
Against this, Soros, other American elites, the media, and the Obama administration all assert that the wave of popular unrest that is taking down one U.S. ally in the Middle East after another will now bring down the Islamic Republic -- and perhaps the Assad government in Syria, too. This is truly a triumph of wishful thinking over thoughtful analysis.
Many of these same actors, of course, worked themselves up into quite a frenzy after the Islamic Republic's June 2009 presidential election. For months, we were subjected to utterly unsubstantiated claims that the election had been stolen and that the Green Movement would sweep aside the Iranian "regime." Like Soros today, many pundits who predicted the Islamic Republic's demise in 2009 or 2010 put various time frames on their predictions -- all of which, to the best of our knowledge, have passed without the Iranian system imploding. (But don't worry about the devastating impact of such egregious malpractice on the careers of those who proved themselves so manifestly incompetent at Iran analysis. In today's accountability-free America, every one of the Iran "experts" who were so wrong about the Green Movement in 2009 and 2010 is back at it again.)
From literally the day after Iran's 2009 presidential election, we pointed out that the Green Movement could not succeed in bringing down the Islamic Republic, for two basic reasons: The movement did not represent anything close to a majority of Iranian society, and a majority of Iranians still support the idea of an Islamic Republic. Two additional factors are in play today, which make it even less likely that those who organized and participated in scattered demonstrations in Iran over the past week will be able to catalyze "regime change" there.
First, what is left of the Green Movement represents an even smaller portion of Iranian society than it did during the summer and fall of 2009. The failures of defeated presidential candidates Mir Hossein Mousavi and Mehdi Karroubi to convincingly document their assertions of electoral fraud and the Green Movement's pivotal role in the West's progressive demonization of the Islamic Republic since June 2009 have not played well with most Iranians inside Iran. That's why, for example, former President Mohammad Khatami has quietly distanced himself from what is left of the Green Movement -- as has every reformist politician who wants to have a political future in the Islamic Republic. As a result of these highly consequential miscalculations by the opposition's ostensible leaders, those who want to try again to organize a mass movement against the Islamic Republic have a much smaller pool of troops that they might potentially be able to mobilize. This is not a winning hand, even in an era of Facebook and Twitter.
Second, the effort to restart protests in Iran is taking place at a moment of real strategic opportunity for Tehran in the Middle East. The regional balance is shifting, in potentially decisive ways, in favor of the Islamic Republic and against its American adversary. In this context, for Mousavi and Karroubi to call their supporters into the streets on Feb. 14 -- just three days after the Obama administration had started issuing its own exhortations for Iranians to revolt against their government and as Obama and his national security team reeled from the loss of Mubarak, America's longtime ally in Egypt -- was an extraordinary blunder.
The Iranian people are not likely to recognize as their political champions those whom they increasingly perceive as working against the national interest. Two of Ahmadinejad's most prominent conservative opponents -- former President Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani and former Revolutionary Guard commander and presidential candidate Mohsen Rezai -- have publicly and severely criticized Mousavi and Karroubi over their recent actions and statements. Parliament speaker Ali Larijani, another Ahmadinejad opponent, told his colleagues last week, "The parliament condemns the Zionists, American, anti-revolutionary, and anti-national action of the misled seditionists," accusing the two Green Movement leaders of falling into "the orchestrated trap of America."
U.S. attempts to intervene in the Islamic Republic's internal politics are typically maladroit and often backfire. But the Obama administration's performance is setting new standards in this regard. Among other consequences, the administration's latest initiative to stir up unrest in Iran will put what is left of the reform camp in Iranian politics at an even bigger disadvantage heading into parliamentary elections next year and the Islamic Republic's next presidential election in 2013, because reformists are now in danger of being associated with an increasingly marginalized and discredited opposition movement that is, effectively, doing America's bidding.
At a more strategic level, the Obama administration's post-Ben Ali, post-Mubarak approach to Iran is putting important U.S. interests in serious jeopardy. It is putting at risk, first of all, the possibility of dealing constructively with an increasingly influential Islamic Republic in Iran. More broadly, at precisely the time when the United States needs to figure out how to deal with legitimate, genuinely independent Islamist movements and political orders, which are the most likely replacements for "pro-American" autocracies across the Middle East, the Obama administration's approach to Iran is taking U.S. policy in exactly the opposition direction.
The United States faces serious challenges in the Middle East. Its strategic position in this vital part of the world is eroding before our eyes. Indulging in fantasies about regime change in Iran will only make the situation worse.
Save big when you subscribe to FP. ATTA KENARE/AFP/Getty Images
Flynt Leverett teaches international affairs at Pennsylvania State University and is a senior research fellow at the New America Foundation. Hillary Mann Leverett teaches international affairs at Yale and American University. Together, they write www.RaceForIran.com.
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Iran aiming to exploit anarchy in post-Mubarak Sinai
Jerusalem Post ^ | Feb 27, 2011 | Yaakov katz
Iran is working to bolster its weapons-smuggling infrastructure in the Sinai Peninsula as anarchy continues to prevail in Egypt following the toppling of the Mubarak regime earlier this month.
According to information obtained by Israel, Iran has been working to build new infrastructure in the Sinai that can be used to smuggle advanced weaponry in large quantities into the Gaza Strip.
Iran wants to take advantage of the current anarchy in Egypt and establish a stronger foothold in Gaza,†a senior defense official said. “They are building new capabilities, upgrading smuggling mechanisms and studying the new military presence there to see how it will affect them.â€
(Excerpt) Read more at jpost.com ...
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Do tyrants fear America anymore? President Obama’s timid foreign policy is an embarrassment
Telegraph UK ^ | February 28, 2011 | Nile Gardiner
.....Just a few years ago the United States was genuinely feared on the world stage, and dictatorial regimes, strategic adversaries and state sponsors of terror treaded carefully in the face of the world’s most powerful nation. Now Washington appears weak, rudderless and frequently confused in its approach. From Tehran to Tripoli, the Obama administration has been pathetically slow to lead, and afraid to condemn acts of state-sponsored repression and violence. When protesters took to the streets to demonstrate against the Islamist dictatorship in Iran in 2009, the brutal repression that greeted them was hardly a blip on Barack Obama’s teleprompter screen,...
[snip]
It has also become abundantly clear that the Obama team attaches little importance to human rights issues, and in contrast to the previous administration has not pursued a freedom agenda in the Middle East and elsewhere. It places far greater value upon engagement with hostile regimes, even if they are carrying out gross human rights abuses, in the mistaken belief that appeasement enhances security. This has been the case with Iran, Russia and North Korea for example. This administration has also been all too willing to sacrifice US leadership in deference to supranational institutions such as the United Nations, whose track record in standing up to dictatorships has been virtually non-existent.
The White House’s painful navel-gazing on Libya last week, with even the French adopting a far tougher stance, is cause for grave concern. The Obama administration’s timid approach to foreign policy is the last thing the world needs at a time of mounting turmoil in the Middle East, including the growing threat of a nuclear-armed Iran, and Islamist militancy on the rise from Egypt to Yemen. US leadership is now needed more than ever, but has embarrassingly gone AWOL on the world stage.
(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.telegraph.co.uk ...
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Do tyrants fear America anymore? President Obama’s timid foreign policy is an embarrassment
Telegraph UK ^ | February 28, 2011 | Nile Gardiner
.....Just a few years ago the United States was genuinely feared on the world stage, and dictatorial regimes, strategic adversaries and state sponsors of terror treaded carefully in the face of the world’s most powerful nation. Now Washington appears weak, rudderless and frequently confused in its approach. From Tehran to Tripoli, the Obama administration has been pathetically slow to lead, and afraid to condemn acts of state-sponsored repression and violence. When protesters took to the streets to demonstrate against the Islamist dictatorship in Iran in 2009, the brutal repression that greeted them was hardly a blip on Barack Obama’s teleprompter screen,...
[snip]
It has also become abundantly clear that the Obama team attaches little importance to human rights issues, and in contrast to the previous administration has not pursued a freedom agenda in the Middle East and elsewhere. It places far greater value upon engagement with hostile regimes, even if they are carrying out gross human rights abuses, in the mistaken belief that appeasement enhances security. This has been the case with Iran, Russia and North Korea for example. This administration has also been all too willing to sacrifice US leadership in deference to supranational institutions such as the United Nations, whose track record in standing up to dictatorships has been virtually non-existent.
The White House’s painful navel-gazing on Libya last week, with even the French adopting a far tougher stance, is cause for grave concern. The Obama administration’s timid approach to foreign policy is the last thing the world needs at a time of mounting turmoil in the Middle East, including the growing threat of a nuclear-armed Iran, and Islamist militancy on the rise from Egypt to Yemen. US leadership is now needed more than ever, but has embarrassingly gone AWOL on the world stage.
(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.telegraph.co.uk ...
Now you KNOW you have a weak president, when he gets outdone on foreign policy by the French.
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Now you KNOW you have a weak president, when he gets outdone on foreign policy by the French.
Actually, the French and Italians have more sway over Libya than the U.S. does.....Italy colonized Libya and the french have always had a hard-on for Khadafy as long as they could do business in the country.
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Actually, the French and Italians have more sway over Libya than the U.S. does.....Italy colonized Libya and the french have always had a hard-on for Khadafy as long as they could do business in the country.
True - Gadaffi refers to obama as "My Son", Obama gave Gadaffi's kids 400k, his grandma went to pay homage to Gadaffi, he ok'd the release of the lockerbie bomber, so obama has nothing here.
Good job voting for this muslim, marxist, maggot.
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True - Gadaffi refers to obama as "My Son", Obama gave Gadaffi's kids 400k, his grandma went to pay homage to Gadaffi, he ok'd the release of the lockerbie bomber, so obama has nothing here.
Good job voting for this muslim, marxist, maggot.
Over the top as usual..you are your own worst enemy
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Over the top as usual..you are your own worst enemy
Yeah, the maggot thing was a bit much, but the rest is true.
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Contentions
Barack Obama’s Moral Concession to Evil
Peter Wehner 02.28.2011 - 3:59 PM
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/02/28/barack-obama%E2%80%99s-moral-concession-to-evil
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According to a story in Sunday’s Washington Post, as President Obama and his advisers measured their response to the mass killing in Libya, they were mindful of the fact that diplomats in Tripoli had told them, in the words of one official, that “certain kinds of messaging from the American government could endanger the security of American citizens.”
“Overruling that kind of advice would be a very difficult and dangerous thing to do,” said Ben Rhodes, the deputy national security adviser for strategic communications. “That was the debate, and frankly we erred on the side of caution, for certain, and at the cost of some criticism,” he continued. “But when you’re sitting in government and you’re told that ignoring that advice could endanger American citizens, that’s a line you don’t feel very comfortable crossing.”
The Obama administration’s position assumes that Muammar Qaddafi needs a pretext to kill Americans. He actually doesn’t. He has done so in the past, and he could just as easily do so now, regardless of what kind of “messaging” emerges from our government.
Beyond that, as Christopher Hitchens points out, the leaders of nations far less powerful than the United States, many with large expatriate populations in Libya, took much more forceful (and much earlier) stances against Qaddafi than did Obama. The president was the last major Western leader to speak up on Libya.
On a more fundamental level, what the Obama administration did was create quite a dangerous precedent. It has now signaled to the most malevolent regimes in the world that the way to delay (or perhaps even avoid) American condemnation, let alone American action, is to threaten the lives of American citizens. The message sent to, and surely the message received by, despots around the world is this: If you want to neuter America, threaten to harm its citizens. Mr. Obama will bend like red-hot steel pulled from a furnace.
There were, of course, other options available to the president, including informing Mr. Qaddafi through the appropriate channels that a terrible fate would await him and his pack of jackals if a single American was harmed (see here). The president did very nearly the opposite. He showed weakness, irresolution, fear. I wonder if people have focused on just how troubling this action, and the mindset it manifests, really is.
Sidney Hook once said that those who make survival the supreme value are declaring that there is nothing they will not betray. Professor Hook’s statement could be amended and updated: American presidents who declare that they will bow to the demands of dictators who threaten American citizens are declaring that there is nothing they will not betray. For those who were disturbed by President Obama’s diffidence in the face of Qaddafi’s wickedness, it’s worse than you think. The ramifications of Mr. Obama’s actions will outlive whatever happens in Tripoli.
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True - Gadaffi refers to obama as "My Son", Obama gave Gadaffi's kids 400k, his grandma went to pay homage to Gadaffi, he ok'd the release of the lockerbie bomber, so obama has nothing here.
Good job voting for this muslim, marxist, maggot.
Or, instead of condemnation, send Beyonce to shake her behind at a party for him and his son. Apparently, Gaddafi is too bootylicious for the President.
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Or, instead of condemnation, send Beyonce to shake her behind at a party for him and his son. Apparently, Gaddafi is too bootylicious for the President.
“The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their president.”
“The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom of what ails America . Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince.
The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president.”
________________________ ________________________ ________________________ ___
Option D, Benny, TA, Andre, Danny, Blacken, and many others clearly fit that description.
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“The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their president.”
“The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom of what ails America . Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince.
The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president.”
________________________ ________________________ ________________________ ___
Option D, Benny, TA, Andre, Danny, Blacken, and many others clearly fit that description.
because i disagree with you.. can i call you a liar for some of the things you posted?
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Yo can call me anything you want, still does not change the fact you and many others have not woken up to the reality of what is going on this country at the hands of an admn determined to collapse the nation.
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Yo can call me anything you want, still does not change the fact you and many others have not woken up to the reality of what is going on this country at the hands of an admn determined to collapse the nation.
I am so happy that Obama will be around for another 6 years to torture you, McWay and Berzerk...I am going to have so much fun mocking you guys!
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Still waiting for you to refute fergusons' commentary point by point.
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I am so happy that Obama will be around for another 6 years to torture you, McWay and Berzerk...I am going to have so much fun mocking you guys!
You clowns were talking that shit last election and got your asses handed to you.
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I am so happy that Obama will be around for another 6 years to torture you, McWay and Berzerk...I am going to have so much fun mocking you guys!
To be honest, if the Repubs get control of the senate in 2012 and maintain control of the house then I couldn't give a fuck who is President as I think it's best when neither side has control.
If things continue like they are right now then I don't think we'll have to worry about Obama staying President. :D :D :D :D
You clowns were talking that shit last election and got your asses handed to you.
Hahahahaha. I remember Pelosi guaranteeing that the Dems would maintain control of the House. That worked out well! ::)
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What are we going on two weeks now asking for a point by point refutation of ferguson?
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What are we going on two weeks now asking for a point by point refutation of ferguson?
Something like that. It's hilarious that he and kcballer just keep on posting, in the same threads nonetheless. Talk about a self-owning.
It's clear that they can't refute him.
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I am so happy that Obama will be around for another 6 years to torture you, McWay and Berzerk...I am going to have so much fun mocking you guys!
Don't bet your house on it. The Dems are still fresh off the receiving end of the worst political woodshed whipping in 70 years.
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If as stays at $5 and UE is still hoverig around 9 - 10%, he is gone.
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Forbes: Get ready for Carter 2.0 on energy and the Mideast
Hot Air ^ | March 02, 2011 | ED MORRISSEY
Tensions spiking in the Middle East. The price of oil going through the roof. An American administration refusing to open American resources for energy. Does this sound familiar? It does if you lived through the late 1970s, and Steve Forbes reminds us that the results were not pretty for the American economy. In fact, Forbes writes today at Politico that Barack Obama has yet another similarity to Jimmy Carter:
You need to watch only a few minutes of cable news analysis to realize just how ludicrous our national energy policies have become. As escalating tensions and chaos unfold in Egypt, Libya and other Middle Eastern nations, one energy analyst suggested that if Libyan oil supplies were to fail, the United States would rely on Saudi Arabia for its oil needs. If that statement alone doesn’t put U.S. leaders on red alert, the looming national energy crisis may soon become reality.
The Obama administration is repeating the mistakes of President Jimmy Carter’s failed energy policies, which marred his term and stigmatized the 1970s. They are leading us straight into another national energy disaster. …
(Excerpt) Read more at hotair.com ...
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Obama Admin. Refuses to Call Attack in Germany an Act of Terrorism, Compares It to Giffords Shooting
Nation.Foxnews ^ | Mar 3, 2011
U.S. State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley on whether the murder of two U.S. airmen was a terrorist attack:
"Was the shooting of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords a terrorist attack? I mean, you have to look at the evidence and look at the motivation and then you make a judgment," Crowley told the Press.
The suspect in the murder of two U.S. airmen at the Frankfurt airport confessed that he specifically wanted to kill Americans as revenge for the Afghan war, a German investigator said Friday.
Prosecutor Rainer Griesbaum told reporters that 21-year-old Arid Uka from Kosovo said he went to the airport with the intent to shoot “as revenge for the American mission in Afghanistan.”
Griesbaum also said that Uka’s pistol malfunctioned during the attack, preventing further loss of life. After shooting and injuring two more.
(Excerpt) Read more at nation.foxnews.com ...
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you are a trip. you see how fox news is pure shit and then you say "um er...i dont follow fox news.. only WSJ...etc..".. and then you quote Foxnews
hmm epic inconsistancy
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you are a trip. you see how fox news is pure shit and then you say "um er...i dont follow fox news.. only WSJ...etc..".. and then you quote Foxnews
hmm epic inconsistancy
They have a website Option FAIL. And who cares who reports Crowleys' WTF statements? No one is denying he said them, heis on tape.
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Led by a Follower: The Danger of a Weak President
Pajamas Media ^ | March 4, 2011 | Chris Salcedo
Obama defers to the tyrants and the UN, and the world is more dangerous because of it.
Remember when U.S. presidents were regarded as the “leader of the free world”? They earned that moniker. FDR spoke of a day of infamy and rallied our nation to fight the Nazi threat to global freedom. JFK stood strong in the face of the Cuban Missile Crisis. And Ronald Reagan recognized the strength of America and stood up to one of the most deadly totalitarian regimes in human history.
Now we have President Obama.
He’s the one — we were told — who would restore our credibility in capitals around the globe. He was to reassert our moral authority: the nation that stands for basic human rights and the dignity of the individual. We were told that his intellect alone could bring tyrants to heel — Obama infamously expressed a desire to meet with dictators, never minding that such meetings would elevate despotic regimes by offering the prestige of the American presidency.
As has come to pass: emboldened by a weak or non-existent foreign policy, buoyed by the confidence that Obama’s White House is unwilling to act, and inspired by strongmen that openly defy the president’s wishes, thugs of all shapes, sizes, and degrees of brutality are challenging the United States.
Those challenges are met with silence, when condemnation is required. They are greeted with ambivalence, when the world cries for decisiveness. The world begs the U.S. to lead, and the “leader of the free world” is content to go with the flow.
Vice President Joe Biden said Obama would be tested, and he has been tested several times over. Each instance seemed a surprise, a distraction to the president. He appeared bothered that each crisis took him away from his stated goal of remaking America. Unfortunately, the rogue elements of the world were not inclined to give the president time to learn on the job. They, unlike Mr. Obama’s devout followers, were not fainting in the aisles after his inauguration. In fact, the despots felt just the opposite: they were reinvigorated. They smelled blood in the water.
In May of 2009, the dictator of North Korea tested a nuclear weapon that was rumored to have been as powerful as the device used over Hiroshima. The nuclear test was a clear violation of multiple United Nations Security Council resolutions and international agreements. President Obama’s response was less than inspirational: he declared that North Korea’s actions were “directly and recklessly challenging the international community,” and that “such provocations will only serve to deepen North Korea’s isolation.” Susan Rice, Mr. Obama’s ambassador to the U.N., reinforced the president’s stance, saying Pyongyang will “pay a price for the path that they’re on if they don’t reverse.” To date, nothing of substance has been done, and this lack of American leadership may have emboldened the communist nation. North Korea has since attacked and sunk a South Korean ship, killing 34 people, and the North launched a deadly shelling on South Korea in November 2010. Obama’s White House called for an end to the North’s “belligerent action.”
The weakness projected by President Obama on North Korea is bad enough. But the president’s timidity elsewhere on the world stage has led to far greater consequences and loss of life.
In the summer of 2009, Iranian citizens took to the streets of Tehran to protest “questionable” election results. The bloodshed that followed was horrific. The Iranian theocracy clamped down on freedom seekers with iron-fisted ruthlessness. The Telegraph, hardly conservative, summed up the White House response as “cowardly, lily-livered and wrong.” That was one of the more flattering accounts of the president’s policy toward Iran, or lack thereof.
It’s not like we weren’t warned of Mr. Obama’s predilections towards appeasement. All of his opponents in the 2008 election cycle, including his current secretary of state, warned that Mr. Obama’s desire to “sit down” with Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad without preconditions would lead to disaster. It was Mr. Obama’s naive notion of talking with such a morally bankrupt regime that, many speculated, led to days of terror for the Iranian people with no opposition from the so-called “leader of the free world.”
In the beginning days of the protest, the administration — through VP Biden and Secretary Clinton — conveyed President Obama’s position: “We’re going to withhold comment…. I mean we’re just waiting to see,” Biden said. Clinton declared in a statement: “The United States has refrained from commenting on the election in Iran.”
Is that leadership?
Only after nearly two weeks of criticism from the international community and conservatives at home did President Obama abandon his “engagement” policy with the thugs in Iran and strongly condemn the regime’s actions. Again, Mr. Obama had to be led before standing for American ideals. Yet a few months later Obama made his first speech before the UN General Assembly, where he called for a “new era of engagement with the world” – he was still leaving the door open to rogue regimes.
Obama’s lack of leadership in standing up to tyranny again evidenced itself a little over a year later.
The Middle East has exploded in protests. Countries that have been ruled by strongmen for decades are seeing a popular uprising of epic proportions. And once again the American administration was caught unaware. Once again the Obama administration was caught flat-footed, as Egyptians took to the streets to overthrow dictator and U.S. ally Hosni Mubarak. Egypt, being a U.S. ally, must have enabled the Obama administration to come out early and call for Mubarak to step down.
It’s well-documented how this administration treats traditional U.S. allies: the return of the bust of Winston Churchill and the gift of Obama speeches on an iPod for the queen, his treatment of Israel, his lackluster support for South Korea, his policy toward trade with democratic Colombia. All the while, Obama treats tyrants and dictators, self-declared enemies of the U.S., with kid gloves.
What else explains the timidity shown in the face of Libyan uprisings, and murders in the streets? When Obama finally got around to commenting on the hundreds of Libyan citizens dead, he couldn’t even bring himself to mention dictator Muammar Gaddafi by name or call for him to step down. He eventually got around to it after a fresh round of shame from his political opposition. As the situation worsened, nations from around the world evacuated their citizens from Libya. Did President Obama send one of our carrier groups to evacuate and guard our citizens? No, he … charted a ferry. We wouldn’t want to project American power and stability in the region, would we? A move like that might have sent an unmistakable message to Gaddafi and other tyrants in the Middle East that the mass murder of their citizens would not be tolerated by the United States. It might have made other despots think twice before ordering their air forces to fire on protesters if they knew American air power was minutes away. I’m sure the calculus was made in the White House: a carrier group would have negated all the good will America has enjoyed since Mr. Obama’s American apology tour early in his presidency. There has been no show of strength or stability in the Middle East. Instead, Mr. Obama has turned once again to the UN to tame Libya’s mad-dog dictator.
Mr. Obama is a weak president. This isn’t my calculation. It’s the consensus of every thug and dictator around the world. Has there been any evidence to the contrary? The world’s despots seem reasonably assured that the most negative consequence for their mayhem is a severe tongue-lashing. And the world is now a much more dangerous place because of Mr. Obama’s lack of experience, his lack of an American-centered resolve, and his pattern of embracing America’s enemies and alienating our friends.
Instead of leading the world as the head of the nation that stands for freedom and liberty, Mr. Obama abdicates that responsibility to the United Nations. We no longer have the “leader of the free world” in the White House. We have “the follower of the oppressed world.” And as long as he occupies that office, America stands to lose its influence around the globe. It’s an influence that, before Obama, made America a beacon of light for human freedom and dignity. That light is growing ever dimmer, allowing the world’s anti-American tyrants to thrive, and leaving our friends and those yearning to breathe free with no guide out of the increasing darkness.
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March 04, 2011
The Muslim Brotherhood is officially A-OK for the Obama Administration
Richard Baehr
Professor Barry Rubin argues in his latest article that the Administration's approach to the new Middle East is becoming clearer, and that it represents the worst single strategic blunder in American foreign policy in the Middle East in decades. In essence, the Obama team has decided that it can live with and work with Islamist regimes in the Middle East, so long as Al Qaeda is not the group in power.
In other words the Muslim Brotherhood is just fine, if it succeeds in taking power in Egypt and other Arab countries currently in turmoil. Rubin quotes the new policy as described in a Washington Post article and then offers his reaction:
"The administration is already taking steps to distinguish between various movements in the region that promote Islamic law in government. An internal assessment, ordered by the White House last month, identified large ideological differences between such movements as the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and al-Qaeda that will guide the U.S. approach to the region."
Get it? Al-Qaeda is bad because it wants to attack U.S. embassies, the World Trade Center, and the Pentagon.
BUT the Muslim Brotherhood is good! Because it merely wants to seize state power, transform Egypt into an Islamist state, rule 90 million people, back Hamas in trying to destroy Israel, overthrow the Palestinian Authority, help Jordan's Muslim Brotherhood overthrow the monarchy, and sponsor terrorism against Americans in the Middle East.
I'm sure you can see the difference. This is the nonsense that the administration has been working toward for two years. It is the doctrine pushed by the president's advisor on terrorism, elements in the CIA, and White House ideologues. The State and Defense departments are probably horrified.
Here's the next paragraph:
"`We shouldn't be afraid of Islam in the politics of these countries,'" said a senior administration official....`It's the behavior of political parties and governments that we will judge them on, not their relationship with Islam.'"
That first phrase is correct. We shouldn't be afraid of Islam in the politics of these countries. Islam has always been present in Egypt and Jordan, Saudi Arabia or post-Saddam Iraq, and even Iran before its revolution and Afghanistan not under the Taliban. But we should be very afraid of Islamism in the politics of these countries. "
. . . .
For weeks, the Administrations' favorite newspaper, the New York Times has been paving the way for the new policy with a series of opinion pieces and news stories on the new "moderate" face of the Muslim Brotherhood, their commitment to non-violence, their discipline and social service role.
The new policy is in some ways consistent with the docile American attitude towards Iran- where engagement was tried and failed, weak sanctions were applied with enough loopholes to make them like swiss cheese slices, the anti-regime demonstrations were ignored and garnered no support, and military action was never contemplated. The result- the Administration is now preparing for a nuclear Iran , and all that is left is finding a way to contain Iran's aggressive posture once it becomes a nuclear power.
Page Printed from: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/03/the_muslim_brotherhood_is_offi.html at March 04, 2011 - 05:30:26 PM CST
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If these countries want Islamic law, there is nothing we can do about it....yes we could use our military but what would it accomplish....we would have to murder islamic politicians and stuff like that....
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While the White House slept: Once again, our government was caught off guard by the Middle East
By John Bolton
Sunday, March 6th 2011, 4:00 AM
Obama administration has seemingly been caught off guard by the recent occurances in the Middle East. Related NewsKrauthammer: Arab world has Bush to thankWhite House blindsided McChrystal interview: insidersAnalysis: Israeli raid is new roadblock in already shaky drive toward reconciliationWhite House: We don't agree with Schumer's comments on Obama's stand against IsraelKirchick: Both sides should politicize national securityDeadly assaults lead to squabbles on Afghan policy
As Libya's bloody conflict rages on, important lessons for U.S. foreign policy are emerging from the past month's Middle East turmoil. Starting with Tunisia, the Obama administration has seemed repeatedly surprised by anti-regime demonstrations, unsure of the stakes for America and its allies and unprepared conceptually and operationally to deal with the consequences.
In Egypt, there was contradictory, unhelpful White House rhetoric when silence would have been prudent - and in Libya, silence when strong American words (and actions) were amply warranted.
But even presidential rhetoric is only rhetoric. The real test is whether our government is prepared for uncertainty, and how its policies are implemented under stress.
Here, the Obama administration has looked shaky at best. Consider the following questions we should now be asking about recent events in order to increase our readiness before the unknown overwhelms us yet again.
1. Did we have adequate intelligence of what was about to happen? The obvious answer is "no," across the board. The ensuing debate about why we were caught so flatfooted will undoubtedly reverberate over the next several months. We are not looking for predictions, but for more information for policy makers and less reliance on foreign intelligence services. Our dearth of human sources in the Middle East has been a problem for decades during many administrations. And what we need now are more resources and operations, not fewer.
2. Were we prepared to protect American citizens, in country or through evacuation if necessary? This is our government's first responsibility. As Libya descended into chaos, our government was plainly unprepared; hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Americans were at risk in the conflict's perilous early hours. Our readiness must be vastly improved. Yet even now, we have precious few military assets in the Mediterranean, and we have escaped a 1979 Iran hostage-style crisis only through good fortune. We cannot risk a repetition.
3. Do we fully understand our interests, and the pluses and minuses of precipitous regime change? This is the grand strategy question, one too complex to be answered in a few words. But I am not reassured by Obama's reactive handling of the crisis.
The truth is, while regional turmoil ignited nearly simultaneously in several countries, the causes of the uprisings require intelligent analysis of what's going on in each nation, not trying to cram it artificially into a preconceived narrative.
We haven't seen this emerge. In Egypt, Obama had at least four different official positions before Hosni Mubarak finally fell. His wavering damaged American credibility throughout the region, particularly with other governments that considered themselves friendly to the United States.
In Libya, one likely scenario is that the country descends into continuing civil war, with no clear winner or loser for some time. Just as Al Qaeda or other terrorists have established operating bases in failed states like Somalia, we risk a similar environment now on what was once called the Barbary Coast, literally on "the shores of Tripoli" of the Marines' Hymn.
Rather than standing by and allowing chaos to mature, we should be taking active steps, such as recognizing an alternative Libyan government, or even securing Tripoli's port and airport, to prevent it.
4. Are we ready for the next contingency, the one around the corner? Further eruptions are possible: Where are they likely to be? The monarchies of the Arabian Peninsula are understandably concerned about the regional turmoil, but they are even more concerned about Iran's malign presence just across the gulf. They see Tehran's influence at work in the intense Shi'ite opposition to Bahrain's Sunni monarchy, and they fear fickle America abandoning them as we have just, in their view, cast aside our long-time ally Mubarak.
One enormous difference here, of course, is the critical role the petroleum production of the gulf countries plays in the world economy, ours in particular, as well as the very different nature of the monarchies' relationship to their citizens, financially and otherwise.
Whether those factors will ultimately ensure stability and security throughout the region is as yet unknowable, but one thing is for certain: We need to be prepared for the trouble to spread, and to defend our critical economic interests. These are not abstract questions of foreign policy, but matters that touch directly on the daily lives of every American. We forget that lesson only at our inordinate peril.
Bolton is former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations and a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute.
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I'm hoping Bolton at least ends up as VP on a ticket. The guy knows his stuff.
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I'm hoping Bolton at least ends up as VP on a ticket. The guy knows his stuff.
I like Bolton too. Bush had to appointment him via recess appointment because the radical freakshow on the left threatened filabuster.
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http://af.reuters.com/article/egyptNews/idAFLDE72509F20110306?sp=true
UPDATE 2-Knives, petrol bombs return to Cairo streets
Sun Mar 6, 2011 9:15pm GMT
Print | Single Page[-] Text - * Activists face attacks for first time in weeks in Cairo
* Protesters seeking end to state security apparatus
* Ministers of interior, foreign affairs and justice named
(Edits)
By Tom Perry and Marwa Awad
CAIRO, March 6 (Reuters) - Men in plain clothes armed with swords and petrol bombs attacked protesters in Cairo on Sunday night during a demonstration demanding reform of security services with a reputation for brutality, witnesses said.
Dozens of men wielding knives and machetes and hurling bricks and petrol bombs confronted protesters at the headquarters of Egypt's state security, a force whose abuses fuelled an uprising that toppled Hosni Mubarak, they said.
It appeared to be the first time armed men in plain clothes had deployed in force against reform activists in central Cairo since Mubarak was forced to step down and hand power to the military, which has charted a course to democratic elections. The scenes evoked attacks on protesters in Tahrir Square by men claiming loyalty to Mubarak during the 18-day uprising that led to his downfall. Since then, activists have pressed demands for deeper reform, including a major shake-up of the police.
Egyptian soldiers, on the streets since the start of the uprising, fired into the air for several minutes to disperse the protesters. As they ran, the protesters were confronted by men they described as thugs.
The state news agency said the demonstrators were trying to break into the building.
A branch of the Interior Ministry, critics of the state security apparatus say it functions as a domestic spy agency.
Its networks penetrated deep into society, monitoring citizens and tapping phone lines. Emergency laws give its officers wide powers to act against government opponents.
In the last two days, protesters have broken into 11 offices belonging to the state security apparatus across the country, seizing documents which they feared would be destroyed by officers to cover up abuses perpetrated by the force.
"The army started firing in the air to disperse us," said Mohammed Fahmy. "We tried to run away but we were met by 200 thugs in plain clothes carrying sharp weapons on the other side," he said, putting the number of protesters at 2,000.
Fahmy said there were 15 injuries, none of them serious.
The military council which has ruled Egypt since Mubarak stepped down warned against publication of documents taken from state security offices and urged their return.
NEW GOVERNMENT
Redeploying the police force, which largely disintegrated in the early days of the uprising, and building public confidence in the internal security forces is one of the main challenges confronting a new government unveiled on Sunday. New ministers of the interior, foreign affairs and justice were announced in a reshuffle that met some of the demands of reformists in a purge of officials chosen by Mubarak.
Nabil Elaraby, a former International Court of Justice judge, was named minister of foreign affairs, replacing Ahmed Aboul Gheit, the face of Mubarak's foreign policy since 2004 and the most prominent minister to hang on this long.
The reshuffle marks the latest reforms enacted by the ruling military council, which has appeared ever more responsive to the demands of groups that rose up against Mubarak.
The Supreme Council of the Armed Forces last week appointed a prime minister with the backing of youth protest groups to replace Ahmed Shafiq, whom Mubarak appointed to the post in his last weeks in power. The new cabinet will require the approval of the council headed by Field Marshal Mohamed Hussein Tantawi.
The council has charted a course towards parliamentary and presidential elections within six months so it can hand power back to a civilian, elected government.
Essam Sharaf, the new premier, met new ministers on Sunday. "This goes a long way in satisfying the demands of the revolutionary groups," Mustapha Kamal al-Sayyid, a political scientist told Reuters, talking about the reshuffle.
Elaraby was Egypt's former permanent representative at the United Nations. He is remembered for expressing reservations about the Camp David peace treaty with Israel which he helped to negotiate, Sayyid said.
He was also a member of the independent council of "Wise Men" which formed after the eruption of the uprising against Mubarak to urge his administration to make reforms.
The military council hopes the new government will find acceptance among Egyptians and restore confidence that will allow the economy to start moving again.
Mansour el-Essawy, the new interior minister, vowed to work to improve the image of the police force.
"I have spoken of the need to shrink the role of the state security apparatus, so that it is only focused on fighting terrorism," the state news agency quoted him as saying.
Essawy had not been associated with State Security in his former role as a senior Interior Ministry official, Sayyid said.
Neither was he seen as part of the inner circle of Habib al-Adli, who held the post for 13 years until Mubarak removed him from his job at the start of the protests against his rule. Adli is on trial, charged with money laundering.
"Essawy is known for fighting corruption," Sayyid said. (Additional reporting by Dina Zayed and Amr Abdullah; writing by Tom Perry; editing by Andrew Roche)
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Kill All The Christians, Local Imam Tells Villagers
Voice of the Copts ^ | 3/8/11
http://voiceofthecopts.org/en/news/kill_all_the_christians_local_imam_tells_villagers.html
Islamic Mob Burns Down Church in Egypt
A Muslim mob in a village south of Cairo last weekend attacked a church building and burned it down, almost killing the parish priest after an imam issued a call to "Kill all the Christians," according to local sources.
The attack started on Friday evening (March 4) in the village of Sool, located in the city of Helwan 35 kilometers (22 miles) from Cairo, and lasted through most of Saturday. A local imam, Sheik Ahmed Abu Al-Dahab, issued the call during Friday afternoon prayers, telling area Muslims to kill the Christians because they had "no right" to live in the village. The attack started several hours later.
The Rev. Hoshea Abd Al-Missieh, a parish priest who narrowly escaped death in the fire, said the clamor of the church being torn apart sounded like "hatred."
"I was in the attack, but I can’t describe it," he said. "The sound of the church being destroyed that I heard – I can’t describe it, how horrible it was."
According to villagers, the mob broke into the Church of the Two Martyrs St. George and St. Mina, and as they chanted "Allahu Akbar [God is greater]," looted it, demolished the walls with sledgehammers and set a fire that burned itself out the next morning. Looters removed anything valuable, including several containers holding the remains of venerated Copts – most of whom were killed in other waves of persecution – then stomped and kicked the containers like soccer balls, witnesses said.
After the fire went out, the mob tore down what little remained of the church structure. The group of Muslims then held prayers at the site and began collecting money to build a mosque where the church building once stood, said the assistant bishop of Giza the Rev. Balamoun Youaqeem.
"They destroyed the church completely," he said. "All that was left is a few columns and things like that. As a building, it’s all gone."
During the fire, Al-Missieh was trapped in a house near the church building that was filling up with smoke. He faced a difficult dilemma – choke or burn to death in the house, or face an angry mob of thousands screaming for blood.
"When the smoke was too much, I told myself, ‘I am dying anyway,’ so I decided I would go out and whatever happened, happened," Al-Missieh said.
When he went outside, a man with a rifle told the priest to follow him. At first Al-Missieh was reluctant, he said, but the man fired off two rounds from the rifle and told the crowd to step away.
"No one will touch this man, he is with me," the priest remembered the man yelling at the mob. Al-Missieh was taken to a house where he met three other workers who were at the church when it was attacked. The men all relayed stories similar to the priest’s.
Friday’s attack was another in a long list of disproportionate responses in Egypt to a rumor of an affair between a Muslim and a Copt. Earlier this month, Sool villagers accused a Muslim woman in her 30s and a Coptic man in his 40s, both of them married, of being involved with each other. On Wednesday (March 2) a village council of Coptic and Muslim leaders convened and agreed that the man should leave the village in order to avoid sectarian violence.
The next day, the woman’s cousin killed the woman’s father in a fight about the honor of the family. The same day, the cousin died of wounds he sustained in the fight. By Friday, Al-Dahab, the local imam, had blamed the entire incident on Christians in the village and called on all Muslims in Sool to kill them.
Because of the attack, Copts in Sool fled to adjacent villages. The women who remained in the village are now being sexually assaulted, according to Youaqeem, who added that he is receiving phone calls from women in the village begging for help. Those reports have not yet been independently confirmed.
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I am so happy that Obama will be around for another 6 years to torture you, McWay and Berzerk...I am going to have so much fun mocking you guys!
So for simplicity sake you don't give a shit about the damage being done to the country as long as you can mock a few people? Glad we have real Americans like you around ::)
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12707276?print=true
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March 2011 Last updated at 15:10 ET
James Clapper says Libya's Muammar Gaddafi will prevail
Libyan rebels battled Col Gaddafi's forces in the port town of Ras Lanuf on Wednesday
Continue reading the main story Libya RevoltLibya revolt Live [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698] BBC team's ordeal [/news/world-africa-12695134] Global diplomacy [/news/business-12699831] Options for intervention [/news/world-africa-12691814
The US national intelligence director has predicted embattled Libyan leader Col Muammar Gaddafi will defeat the rebels challenging his grip on power.
James Clapper told the US Senate that Col Gaddafi's superior military force would prevail over the long term.
And Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said the US would not act in Libya without international authorisation.
Meanwhile, Libyan rebels are fleeing the port of Ras Lanuf after sustained attacks by Col Gaddafi's forces.
In Washington, Mr Clapper, who is the top intelligence adviser to US President Barack Obama, told the Senate he saw no evidence Col Gaddafi would step down from power.
'Hunkering down'
He warned Col Gaddafi's military was stronger than had previously been described.
Continue reading the main story AnalysisMark Mardell BBC North America editor
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US President Barack Obama wants the US to have a new relationship with the world, and this is a critical test of his approach.
To some, his reluctance to order military action looks like hesitation and weakness. It always has and always will irritate those who want an unapologetically aggressive America storming ahead, out front, leading those who have the guts to follow.
That is not Mr Obama's way. In part, he was elected in reaction to the Iraq war and he's very serious about acting in concert with the international community. His style is very deliberative, very rigorous, rather academic.
In the White House there's a curious mixture of an emotional attachment to the cause of democracy-loving rebels and a hard headed pragmatism: Libya is not seen as a vital national interest, in the way that Egypt Bahrain and Yemen are, and they don't want to get tied down in one country when more important challenges may be around the next corner.
Read Mark's thoughts in full
In response to calls from some senior US Senate figures to establish a no-fly zone, Mr Clapper said Col Gaddafi's air defences were "quite substantial".
"Gaddafi is in this for the long haul," Mr Clapper said.
"I don't think he has any intention, despite some of the press speculation to the contrary, of leaving. From all evidence that we have... he appears to be hunkering down for the duration."
Mr Clapper said one possible outcome could be the splitting of Libya into three autonomous states.
Also on Thursday, the US revoked the diplomatic status of the Libyan envoys remaining in the embassy in Washington and suspended the embassy's operations.
Mrs Clinton said the US would meet representatives of the Libyan opposition, but emphasised the US would not undertake military action unilaterally.
"We're looking to see whether there is any willingness in the international community to provide any authorisation for further steps," she told a panel of the US House of Representatives.
"Absent international authorisation, the US acting alone would be stepping into a situation whose consequences are unforeseeable."
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check your pm
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So for simplicity sake you don't give a shit about the damage being done to the country as long as you can mock a few people? Glad we have real Americans like you around ::)
Mocking you guys is just a bonus to his being elected again.....
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Mocking you guys is just a bonus to his being elected again.....
So you would vote for Nero even as Rome burned so you can mock someone? No wonder we are in the shape we are with retards like you given the ability to vote.
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So you would vote for Nero even as Rome burned so you can mock someone? No wonder we are in the shape we are with retards like you given the ability to vote.
calm down Gloria.....learn to ease up a bit and take a joke
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Sure thing Daphne, problem is I don't find my country being ruined funny
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Sure thing Daphne, problem is I don't find my country being ruined funny
The country is being ruined not by Obama but by congress..they are the ones who appropriate and spend so much because they want to win re-election...they contol the purse strings....Obama can't buy toilet paper unless they approive the funds for it...
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Obama's missteps on Libya cement Gaddafi's advantage
www.washingtonpost.com ^ | March 11, 2011 | Stephen Rademaker
In diplomacy, as in medicine, the cardinal principle in any crisis is to first do no harm. The Obama administration's approach to Libya has violated this principle in at least two respects. Having made matters worse for Libya's democratic opposition, the administration now must be willing to reverse the damage it has done.
First, there's the arms embargo, imposed by the U.N. Security Council with strong U.S. support two weeks ago. Initially advertised as a measure that would weaken the Gaddafi regime by preventing it from acquiring additional weapons, the State Department this week revealed its view that the U.N. embargo also makes it illegal to provide defensive arms to the opposition.
An evenhanded arms embargo might make sense if the Libyan conflict were between two equally armed sides and we were indifferent to which side won. But the Gaddafi regime is infinitely better-armed than the rag-tag opposition that, having freed half the country, now faces a withering counterattack from the regime's artillery and combat aircraft. The Obama administration professes to want the opposition to prevail, but by prohibiting arms transfers to both sides, it has almost guaranteed that Moammar Gaddafi will win a drawn-out conflict. ....
The second Obama administration misstep was its support for the U.N. decision to give the International Criminal Court (ICC) jurisdiction to prosecute Gaddafi....he and his lieutenants are left with just two choices: surrender to international justice or fight it out in Tripoli. Clearly they have no interest in surrendering, so Libya is now locked into a civil war that will rage until one side wins. ....
Essentially, what the United Nations has done in Libya is deny Gaddafi any attractive alternative to fighting to the death with his opposition, while locking in Gaddafi's overwhelming military advantage in that fight.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
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Obama is playing golf again today. FAIL
www.drudgereport.com
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Niall Ferguson: The Best Case Scenario Is A Rerun Of The 1970s, With Obama In The Role Of Jimmy Carter
Gregory White | Mar. 14, 2011, 8:37 AM | 191 | 1
http://www.businessinsider.com/niall-ferguson-obama-carter-2011-3
________________________ _____________________
Niall Ferguson spoke with CNBC this morning about the state of the global economy, the rise of China, and the chaos in the Middle East.
"At best case we're going to re-run the 1970s, only with Barack Obama instead of Jimmy Carter in the White House," he said.
More on his comments below:
0:25 If you look at the last 600 years, the big story was the rise of the west. But that's ending, and has been from the 1970s. Now with industrialization in Asia, it's happening quickly. And change and collapse in the west could happen very quickly.
1:45 This isn't a projection; China has become the biggest manufacturer in the world. This isn't like Japan. China has a big economy, big country, has discovered Western tech.
2:35 Reserve currency status is a lagging indicator. Look at Britain in the 1940s. There is an explosion of public debt in the U.S. (threat number 1, according to Ferguson). But reserve currencies can't switch overnight.
3:55 Very few of the ingredients are in place for a successful democracy in the Middle East. There's a combination for a civil war, not democracy. The chaos in the region is exactly what the radicals want. We're likely to first see civil wars, then Islamist regimes, then cross border wars.
________________________ ________________
Video at link. Waiting for a rebuttal by Andreisakneepadder
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Niall Ferguson: The Best Case Scenario Is A Rerun Of The 1970s, With Obama In The Role Of Jimmy Carter
Gregory White | Mar. 14, 2011, 8:37 AM | 191 | 1
http://www.businessinsider.com/niall-ferguson-obama-carter-2011-3
________________________ _____________________
Niall Ferguson spoke with CNBC this morning about the state of the global economy, the rise of China, and the chaos in the Middle East.
"At best case we're going to re-run the 1970s, only with Barack Obama instead of Jimmy Carter in the White House," he said.
More on his comments below:
0:25 If you look at the last 600 years, the big story was the rise of the west. But that's ending, and has been from the 1970s. Now with industrialization in Asia, it's happening quickly. And change and collapse in the west could happen very quickly.
1:45 This isn't a projection; China has become the biggest manufacturer in the world. This isn't like Japan. China has a big economy, big country, has discovered Western tech.
2:35 Reserve currency status is a lagging indicator. Look at Britain in the 1940s. There is an explosion of public debt in the U.S. (threat number 1, according to Ferguson). But reserve currencies can't switch overnight.
3:55 Very few of the ingredients are in place for a successful democracy in the Middle East. There's a combination for a civil war, not democracy. The chaos in the region is exactly what the radicals want. We're likely to first see civil wars, then Islamist regimes, then cross border wars.
________________________ ________________
Video at link. Waiting for a rebuttal by Andreisakneepadder
I'll give you the rebuttal although its a complete waste of time....you are so trapped by your own limited thinking that you can't see the other guys point of view...but since you want a rebuttal I will give you one...
1. I agree that China is doing well economically but lets not forget that they steal a lot of technology from us and from France, Britain, etc....plus they cheat when it comes to their currency which they purposely keep very low so so our goods cost more... plus they use other unfair trade practices....is that Obama's fault???...they have been doing this for years under various presidents....Obama actually called them out on this when the chinese president came to visit...something NO OTHER PRESIDENT has done face to face..the chinese and other countries like Brazil and India are catching up to us, but we still will remain one of the top 2 or 3 economies for the foreseeable future...nothing wrong with that...no one can stay number one forever...
2. People compare us to Britain and how they lost their empire but the U.S. is so much larger than Britain ever was....England is an Island...it is very difficult historically for Island nations like Britain and Japan to maintain empires....Our economy is vastly larger than Britain's ever was.....and our military is still the best in the world....and still feared by the world....the problem is our allies are not pulling their weight....for instance, look at Libya..all the Europeans talk a good game but NO ONE would step up militarily because they are cowards.....they wait for the U.S. to do all the dying for them..even though France and Italy are right next door to Libya....is that Obama's fault that the Europeans are cowardly and have an antiquated military which is incapable of fighting??? we simply cannot afford to send blood and treasure to protect the cowards in Europe any more...
3. I agree.... few ingredients are present at the moment for democracy in the Middle East...the reason for these revolts are due to the rulers of these countries not helping their own people....Is this Obama's fault???....these regimes have been around since the early 1900's....through the administrations of many presidents....George Bush wanted democracy in the Middle East and felt that invading Iraq would begin the downfall of many of these regimes..he was right....now that there is democracy in Iraq..everyone wants it..Is this Obama's fault???...I am a Bush fan and supporter but this all started due to Bush's vision of democracy in the middle east.....Islamist regimes may pop up but thats democracy for you..sometimes the bad guys win...look at the Republican victory in the mid-term elections as an example..(haha)..and also look at Hamas...which is an election which Bush pushed for with the Palestinians..
4. Also I was watching Fareek Zacharia's show on CNN and Neil was a guest.....there were other smart guys on there who disagreed with Ferguson so he isn't exactly the last word on the subject..it all depends on who you want to believe...
there ya go..what more do you want from me????
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A promise to vote for Palin in the GOP primary. :-* :-*
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A promise to vote for Palin in the GOP primary. :-* :-*
then you are truly nuts...but go ahead...wasted votes like this one actually help Obama..thanks!!
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A promise to vote for Palin in the GOP primary. :-* :-*
there it is. Enough people with that mentality and Obama wins again.
YOU are the reason Obama won in 2008, 333386.
YOU (and your ilk) voted Romney over Paul in the primary - choosing a hepless phony lib with history of romneycare.
And you are encouraging others to vote for the candidate with the biggest obstacles to overcome to winning. you're sabotaging the GOP's chances.
Why? Do you secretly like to suffer, and keeping an Obama in office assures you are always the victim?
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there it is. Enough people with that mentality and Obama wins again.
YOU are the reason Obama won in 2008, 333386.
YOU (and your ilk) voted Romney over Paul in the primary - choosing a hepless phony lib with history of romneycare.
And you are encouraging others to vote for the candidate with the biggest obstacles to overcome to winning. you're sabotaging the GOP's chances.
Why? Do you secretly like to suffer, and keeping an Obama in office assures you are always the victim?
;D
I'm kidding 240 - geeez
I think Madoff/Vanderslootcan win at this point. Did you see Rasmussen today? BO is sinking like the titanic again.
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there it is. Enough people with that mentality and Obama wins again.
YOU are the reason Obama won in 2008, 333386.
YOU (and your ilk) voted Romney over Paul in the primary - choosing a hepless phony lib with history of romneycare.
And you are encouraging others to vote for the candidate with the biggest obstacles to overcome to winning. you're sabotaging the GOP's chances.
Why? Do you secretly like to suffer, and keeping an Obama in office assures you are always the victim?
hmmm....might be some truth to this...excellent point 240
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Caption: Obama ("It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!")
REUTERS via YAHOO! ^ | March 14, 2011
U.S. President Barack Obama signs a screen showing Duke Ellington during a visit to Kenmore Middle School in Arlington, Virginia March 14, 2011. Obama wrote, "It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!"', a reference to a Duke Ellington composition. REUTERS/Kevin Lamarque
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
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Tel Aviv Journal: Obama’s Scandalous Approach to the Middle East
Martin Peretz
March 15, 2011 | 12:00 am
.What is now clear is that the only help Barack Obama was willing to give to the Arabs was his coldness to the Jewish nation. Or, and I want to be frank, his hostile indifference to Israel. It has been a not quite sub rosa sub-theme of his presidency since the beginning. He had not the slightest idea or maybe couldn’t care less that Zion and Zionism meant the retrieval of the Jews from a harrowing if remarkable history. The president is of the generation—or perhaps the temperament—that knows not the “long is the road” Hebrew story of national philosophical rebirth in the context of 1848, the saga of the pogroms, the disenchantment with bourgeois liberalism, the stubborn persistence of blood libels and its cumulative consequence in the unrivaled catastrophe of the Nazi ghettoes and concentration camps after which, not miraculously but conscientiously, a dispersed community was reborn as a commonwealth and as a state. Unlike the Palestinian pretense, it did not have even to be reimagined, save for its old scriptural language which is now at once practical and poetic. (The literate high Arabic language cutting across cultures, as prosaic Arabic does not, also has its own beauties, both tranquil and heroic, even to someone who reads it only in translation.)
Now, please do not be troubled by my insistent questioning of the authenticity of “the Palestinian nation.” It doesn’t mean that Israel should continue to hold much of the West Bank, and it does not mean that the present voices of the Palestinians are inauthentic either. But they happen to reach for different ends. Most states in the world (and in the United Nations) are not properly nation states, by which I mean that they are mostly accretions of tribal groups—which does not, of course, necessarily translate into “primitive”—or clans, the loyalties of which are to their specific own rather than to the wider rhetorical assemblages that are represented in world politics. Perhaps it is pointless to cavil against an international system when what strains it most is the hostility within rather than among its constituent parts. Zimbabwe and “Democratic” Congo, for example. Algeria, Libya, Egypt, Iraq, Bahrain, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Sudan, even Jordan: Antagonistic visions animate each of these polities. Like Palestine. Give it a decade or two, and the same will be said for Saudi Arabia. Already the tiny wealthy but all less-wealthy-than-they-were-two-years-ago emirates cannot count their own native-born as a majority and that is because they are in most of them a small minority. It’s a curious point: But the 22-member Arab League and the 57-member Organization of the Islamic Conference usually vote as one. It’s within the individual states and statelets where the rancor expressed is truly felt.
What is curious about Obama’s infatuation with Arab societies (and with non-Arab Muslim societies, too) is that he knows just about nothing about them. And I don’t just mean their histories or theology. What’s clear is that the president grasps pretty-close-to-zero about the actualities of these states, their economic and social realities, the stratifications by tribe and sex, the race between literacy and population growth, the synchrony of tradition with bureaucracy, the stultification of education, the militarization of these polities, their abhorrence of liberal ideas. And the fact is that Obama is neither fast-spirited nor supple. He certainly was blind-sided by the turbulence and torment that has wracked the region over more than two months now. Why could he not see the new amidst the crumbling old? And why was he also not liberated a bit from the old order to which he had mysteriously attached himself?
The fact is that Obama is a victim of a certain sort of “orientalism” transmitted to him by his friend Rashid Khalidi carrying the message of Edward Said. Except that this form of the dogma, now hopefully on its last legs in the academy, does not idealize the vision of the imperials. It idealizes whatever Arab reality happens to have survived western imperialism. Among them is the standing of the hijab or burqa. This is part of the civilizational conflict in the world of Islam and, as I have pointed out at least twice, Obama has spoken up for the looking-backwards end of the dispute. Why should he not, in Cairo and at the White House, have defended the modernizers instead? This would have put him on the side of the future, though if he didn’t want to intrude on an internal Muslim struggle he could have simply shut up. But no. This president thinks he speaks with authority on any topics he chooses to address.
Alright, so Obama patters on about Koranic theology or whispers arcane words, throaty or mellifluous, in Arabic. Wow! He is a vernacular panderer to one group and then another, including the Jews. As anybody current with the conflicts in Arab and Islamic culture understands, the place of memorization in the education of the young is right there at the top. Anybody who has read the various volumes of the United Nations Arab Development Report also understands why this is so. Well, the horrendous prevalence of illiteracy in these countries, where the Prophet’s scripture is hammered into the heads of boys (and now sometimes girls, too), testifies to the deformity of the entire system. Being “progressives,” Barack and Michelle are more than likely to disapprove of rote learning in American schools. But since the president takes each and every opportunity he can to fawn over antiquarian Islam he has also made himself heard on this vexing issue of teaching and knowing.
We now know from many scholars, and especially Dan Diner in his book Lost in the Sacred: Why the Muslim World Stood Still,about which I’ve written several times, that it is not Islam per sebut the very restraints on print and the idolization of language, among other factors, that are responsible for the benighted state of intellectual achievement in that orbit. A brand new book by Duke economic historian Timor Kuran, The Long Divergence: How Islamic Law Held Back the Middle East, which I half-read when I was home in Cambridge a fortnight ago, argues that the rules of the religious structure inhibited virtually to a standstill the development of economic and social forces in the region. Kuran ends on an optimistic note and it is based on the near-collapse of the societies without oil and the distorted growth of those with oil. The thesis (and I mean no disrespect): It’s so bad that it has to get better. Of course, it is now mostly about education, which means openness to the new. Society must sign the pledge.
Actually, then, the most shocking thing Obama ever said in my view had little intrinsic or concrete implications for U.S. foreign policy. But it was an endorsement of the awful vocation of memorization of text. He was announcing the appointment of Rashad Hussain, an apparently quite talented student of Middle Eastern affairs, to be the president’s envoy to the Organization of the Islamic Conference. Now, the truth is that the Conference ain’t really much of anything. But it is, by the administration’s own admission, an instrument of its blah-blah diplomacy.
Here is the beginning of the “White House Blog” item of March 7, 2010, posted by Pradeep Ramamurthy, senior director for Global Engagement at the National Security Council:
During his speech in Cairo on June 4, 2009, the President articulated a vision for a New Beginning with Muslims around the world -- one based on mutual respect and the pursuit of partnerships in areas of mutual interest. Around the world, from Rabat to Jakarta, the United States is engaging Muslim communities around the world and building mutually beneficial partnerships that expand opportunity. As part of our commitment to dialogue, our embassies have held roundtables with thousands of students, civil society leaders and entrepreneurs, among others, and senior officials like Secretary Clinton have held televised townhalls.
Over the past nine months, the Administration has been delivering on the specific commitments the President made in his speech – from appointing science envoys, creating a Technology and Innovation Fund, and expanding exchanges to hosting a Summit on Entrepreneurship in April. But, the U.S. Government has done far more than deliver the specific commitments from President Obama's speech. For example, while we have partnered with the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) to eradicate polio, we also worked with Saudi Arabia to prevent the spread of H1N1 influenza during hajj.
The speech in Cairo expressed an overarching vision for our engagement. To help pursue that vision, the President recently appointed Rashad Hussain to be his Special Envoy to the OIC. Rashad has played an important role in developing the New Beginning we seek with Muslim communities around the world. In his new position, he will continue to play a key role in expanding our engagement with Muslims around the world.
And the president added to Hussain’s credentials in his own statement by announcing that his designee was also “a hafiz (memorization student) of the Quaran,” as if this were a high distinction rather than a commonplace. After all, millions and millions of clever boys, many of them actually illiterate and without understanding any of the Arabic in which the holy book is written, have committed the text to their heads. Maybe I am being persnickety in pointing out these small details of Obama’s presentation. But they are telling.
Especially in contrast with his palsied response to the historic revolution of the Arabs that for a few weeks seemed unstoppable. Let’s face it: Obama is petrified by the unprecedented newness emerging in the desert. In Tunisia and Egypt the crowd moved quickly against the regime which meant at least that the old regime would be gone. What will happen next is anyone’s guess, except for American intelligence which has finally lost its credentials for both analysis and prophecy. It was probably the CIA that put us on the side of Hosni Mubarak in the early days of the Tahrir Square manifestations. The president was quiet and then was just sheer bluster, not decisive and not imaginative either. He was not a man of history. Except to move it backwards.
If any power has allowed Muammar Qaddafi, tyrant and psychotic, to remain in power it is the clinical allergy to power of our president. He is weak-willed and weak-kneed. Here, after all, was a brave people who’d been brutalized for more than four decades, been run by gangsters and still had the clarity of the lure of liberty. They’d also been unlucky in their northern neighbors across the Mediterranean, Italy and France, who had maintained the vocation of imperials for many decades. Despite this and perhaps because of it Paris and Rome have now dumped their long-time partner in crimes against humanity. Of course, Washington has finally proclaimed Tripoli an illegitimate government. As if a statement without practical action would have any real resonance.
Qaddafi possesses the power of any dictator, men in arms who will follow him and behave brutally. They are waging a war against the rebels but also against the innocent. Bombing from the air without targets to create chaos and dread. Pace Robert Gates, a no-fly zone would have imperiled nothing except the colonel’s air force.
But the American refusal to recognize the provisional government in Benghazi is the true betrayal of the Arab revolution, of an Arab people and of Arab hope. For were the president to announce that the U.S. sees the revolutionaries and rebels as the legitimate representatives of their long betrayed people, some $30 billion in assets in our country would be theirs. Perhaps more. This added to the other enormous holdings of the Libyan people in French, Italian, and British banks could make that people free.
Martin Peretz is the editor-in-chief emeritus of The New Republic.
For more TNR, become a fan on Facebook and follow us on Twitter.
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Source URL: http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/85234/peretz-israel-palestinian-obama
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This guy is the biggest foreign policy disaster in decades. If there's a right way and a wrong way you can be certain he'll pick the wrong way.
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This guy is the biggest foreign policy disaster in decades. If there's a right way and a wrong way you can be certain he'll pick the wrong way.
what should he have done in your great opinion?
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Obama the invisible
By JOHN PODHORETZ
Last Updated: 3:50 AM, March 16, 2011
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Where is the president? The world is beset. Moammar Khadafy is moving relentlessly to crush the Libyan revolt that once promised the overthrow of one of the world's most despicable regimes.
So where is the president?
Japan may be on the verge of a disaster that dwarfs any we have yet seen. A self-governing nation like the United States needs its leader to take full measure of his position at times of crises when the path forward is no longer clear.
This is not a time for leadership; this is the time for leadership.
So where is Barack Obama?
The moment demands that he rise to the challenge of showing America and the world that he is taking the reins. How leaders act in times of unanticipated crisis, in which they do not have a formulated game plan and must instead navigate in treacherous waters, defines them.
Obama is defining himself in a way that will destroy him.
It is not merely that he isn't rising to the challenge. He is avoiding the challenge. He is Bartleby the President. He would prefer not to.
He has access to a microphone 24 hours a day, seven days a week. If he tells the broadcast networks in the middle of the day that he has a major address to deliver on an unprecedented world situation, they will cancel their programming for him.
And yet, since Friday and a press conference in which he managed to leave the American position on Libya more muddled than it was before, we have not heard his voice. Except in a radio address -- he talked about education legislation.
And he appeared at a fund-raiser in DC. And sat down with ESPN to reveal his NCAA picks.
He cannot go on like this. Niall Ferguson, the very pessimis tic economic his torian, wrote the other day that the best we can now hope for is that Obama leaves the country in the same kind of shape that Jimmy Carter left it in.
That doesn't do Obama justice. Despite how disastrously he has handled the crises of the past two months, he can still turn his presidency around on a dime.
For Obama to save himself, he should be thinking about the example of an unlikely Republican predecessor: Richard Nixon.
The multifarious crises the president now faces are eerily similar to the kinds of calamities that greeted Richard Nixon in his first term from 1969-1972. Then, as now, the world was on fire. Wars erupted between China and the Soviet Union, India and Pakistan, even El Salvador and Honduras.
Jordan was nearly taken over from within by the Palestine Liberation Organization. There were humanitarian disasters in Biafra (the result of civil war), Bangladesh (due to flooding) and Nicaragua (deadly earthquake).
There was more, much more -- including a war he inherited in Vietnam, just as Obama has the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. You get the point.
Nixon in 1968, unlike Obama 2008, was elected as a minority president with only 43 percent of the vote. Yet, in 1972, he won what, in some measures, was the most lopsided election in American history with 61 percent.
Nixon achieved it, in large measure, because he appeared to be a serious man grappling in deadly earnest with the serious problems presented to him by a world careening out of control.
He demonstrated high competency when it came to matters on the world stage. He and his team (primarily Henry Kissinger) developed coherent policies and strategies for coping with the world. There was no question, to friend or foe, that he was fully engaged, paying attention, deeply involved.
Nixon was an awful president in many ways, including in some of his foreign-policy choices. But he left no doubt that foreign policy and America's leadership in the world outside its borders was of paramount importance to him.
All this had the effect of elevating Nixon during his time in office, so that when it came to running against George McGovern in 1972, Nixon seemed like a Titan and McGovern a pipsqueak.
How Nixon conducted himself in office in times of crises made possible his triumphant re-election. Right now, how Obama is conducting himself in a time of crisis is having the opposite effect.
He began his presidency as a potential colossus -- but if he doesn't change, he will finish it as a pipsqueak. Pipsqueaks don't win second terms.
johnpodhoretz@gmail.com
NEW YORK POST is a regist
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Young Leaders of Egypt's Revolt Snub Clinton in Cairo
March 15, 2011 1:17 PM
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2011/03/young-leaders-of-egypts-revolt-snub-clinton-in-cairo.html
ABC News' Kirit Radia and Alex Marquardt report:
A coalition of six youth groups that emerged from Egypt’s revolution last month has refused to meet with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who arrived in Cairo earlier today, in protest of the United States’ strong support for former Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak who was ousted by the uprising.
“There was an invitation for members of the coalition to meet Secretary of State Hillary Clinton but based on her negative position from the beginning of the revolution and the position of the US administration in the Middle East, we reject this invitation,” the January 25 Revolution Youth Coalition said in a statement posted on its Facebook page.
A spokesman for Clinton had no immediate response to the snub. Another State Department official, who would not speak for attribution, confirmed such a meeting had been slated for Tuesday and noted that she still plans to meet with members of civil society and transitional government officials during her visit, during which she will urge Egyptians to continue on the path towards democracy.
Mubarak was one of the United States’ strongest allies in the Middle East over successive American administrations. He enjoyed a cozy relationship with top US leaders, which courted Egypt with massive military aid packages as thanks in large part for its support for Israel.
“I really consider President and Mrs. Mubarak to be friends of my family. So I hope to see him often here in Egypt and in the United States,” Secretary Clinton told the Arab language satellite channel al Arabiya during a 2009 interview.
As the revolt strengthened in the streets of Cairo, Clinton was perceived as slow to recognize the strength of the protest movement.
“Our assessment is that the Egyptian government is stable and is looking for ways to respond to the legitimate needs and interests of the Egyptian people,” Clinton told reporters when first asked about the unrest on January 25.
In a separate statement provided to an Egyptian newspaper the youth group said “the US administration took Egypt’s revolution lightly and supported the old regime while Egyptian blood was being spilled.”
March 15, 2011 in Kirit Radia, Political Punch | Permalink | Share | User
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Andreisadouche,KC, and all he far left morons proven WRONG once again.
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Brotherhood the victor in Egyptian referendum
American Thinker ^ | March 21, 2011 | Rick Moran
March 21, 2011 Brotherhood the victor in Egyptian referendum
Rick Moran
A referendum in Egypt on changes to the constitution brought a record turnout to the polls and a victory for both the Muslim Brotherhood and deposed president Hosni Mubarak's political party. The referendum carried by a 77-23 margin and will bring on quick elections for parliament in June and a presidential election in August.
The secularists were routed.
New York Times:
The Muslim Brotherhood and remnant elements of the National Democratic Party, which dominated Egyptian politics for decades, were the main supporters of the referendum. They argued the election timetable would insure a swift return to civilian rule.
Members of the liberal wing of Egyptian politics mostly opposed the measure, saying they lacked time to organize into effective political organizations. They said early elections will benefit the Brotherhood and the old ruling party, which they warned would seek to write a constitution that centralizes power much like the old one.
Voters were asked to either accept or reject eight constitutional amendments as a whole - all of them designed to establish the foundations for upcoming elections. Most addressed some of the worst excesses of previous years - limiting the president to two four-year terms, for example, to avoid another president staying in office as long as Mr. Mubarak. The amendments were announced on Feb. 25 after virtually no public discussion by an 11-member committee of experts chosen by the military.
"It is very, very disappointing," said Hani Shukrallah, who is active in a new liberal political party and is the editor of Ahram Online, a news Website.
He and many other opponents of the referendum said religious organizations had spread false rumors, suggesting that voting against the referendum would threaten Article 2 of the constitution, which cites Islamic law as the main basis for Egyptian law.
"I saw one sign that said, ‘If you vote no you are a follower of America and Baradei and if you vote yes you are a follower of God,'" he said. "The idea is that Muslims will vote yes and Copts and atheists will vote no."
No word yet from the Obama administration who are probably the only people in America surprised at this outcome. The Brotherhood flexed their muscles and showed just how much influence they have. The small group of liberals, overwhelmed by the Islamists, better get organized in a hurry or the worst case scenario involving Egypt will come to pass.
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Secret shame of Egypt's army: Women protesters were forced to have 'virginity checks' after being arrested in Tahrir Square
By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 10:10 AM on 24th March 2011
Comments (14) Add to My Stories
Women arrested by the Egyptian police during protests in Cairo's Tahrir Square were subjected to forced 'virginity tests', according to Amnesty International.
Eighteen demonstrators were detained after army officers cleared the square on March 9 at the end of weeks of protest.
Amnesty today said that the women had been beaten, given electric shocks and then subjected to strip searches while being photographed by male soldiers.
They were then given 'virginity checks' and threatened with prostitution charges if medics ruled they had had sex, according to the charity.
Detained: Eighteen women protesters were detained in Cairo's Tahrir Square and then subjected to horrific treatment, according to Amnesty International. There is no suggestion that any of the women in this photograph were arrested
Salwa Hosseini, 20, said she had been arrested and taken to a military prison in Heikstep where she was forced to strip and then searched by a female guard.
She told the charity a number of male soldiers were watching through two open doors and a window and it was at that point they took photographs.
Miss Hosseini then went on to describe 'virginity tests' being carried out by a man in a white coat.
She claims the women were threatened with charges if they were found not to be virgins.
Meanwhile Rasha Azeb, a female journalist who arrested in Tahrir Square at the same time, claims that she was handcuffed and beaten by security forces.
More...Six protesters killed after security forces attack Syrian mosque
'I don't know what he's shooting at but he can't hit us': Allied forces obliterate Gaddafi's air force
She described being taken to a building within the Cairo Musuem complex where she could witnessed other women being tortured with electric shocks to the chest and legs.
Miss Azeb was released after several hours along with a number of male journalists. The other women were sent to Heikstep.
The group finally faced a military court on March 11 and were released on March 13.
Miss Hosseini was covicted of disorderly conduct, destroying private and public property, obstructing traffic and carrying weapons.
Amnesty has called for the Egyptian authorities to hold a full investigation into the alleged abuse.
Mass protest: There were thousands of women who joined the protests which eventually ousted the Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak
A spokesman for the human rights organisation said that the actions were 'utterly unacceptable.'
'The purpose is to degrade women because they are women,' he said. 'All women of the medical profession must refuse to take part in such so-called "tests."'
The spokesman also said that one woman who told the military she was a virgin and then failed the 'test' was beaten and given electric shocks.
'Women and girls must be able to express their views on the future of Egypt and protest against the government without being detained, tortured, or subjected to profoundly degrading and discriminatory treatment,' he added.
'The army officers tried to further humiliate the women by allowing men to watch and photograph what was happening, with the implicit threat that the women could be at further risk of harm if the photographs were made public.
'The Egyptian authorities must halt the shocking and degrading treatment of women protesters. Women fully participated in bringing change in Egypt and should not be punished for their activism.
'All security and army forces must be clearly instructed that torture and other ill-treatment, including forced "virginity tests", will no longer be tolerated, and will be fully investigated.
'Those found responsible for such acts must be brought to justice and the courageous women who denounced such abuses be protected from reprisals.'
Testimonies of other women detained at the same time collected by the El Nadeem Center for Rehabilitation of Victims of Violence are consistent with Rasha Azeb and Salwa Hosseini’s accounts of beatings, electrocution and ‘virginity tests’.
Former GMTV correspondent Lara Logan was treated in hospital for six days after being sexually assaulted in Tahrir Square while covering the demonstrations.
Now a reporter for American network CBS, she was attacked by a mob of 200 after being separated from security personnel.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1369259/Egypt-protests-Women-forced-virginity-checks-arrests-Tahir-Square.html#ixzz1HZyaxh5N
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Egypt: Cabinet's sweeping ban on strikes and protests draws condemnation
from Human Rights Watch.
(New York) - The Egyptian cabinet's announcement on March 24, 2011, of a new law banning strikes and demonstrations that impede the work of public institutions violates international law protections for free assembly and should be reversed immediately, Human Rights Watch said today.
The cabinet's claims that this law is an exceptional measure under the country's emergency law, which is still in effect, is a reminder of the need to revoke the emergency law immediately, Human Rights Watch said. An end to the state of emergency was one of the primary demands of the protesters who gathered in Tahrir Square.
"This virtually blanket ban on strikes and demonstrations is a betrayal of the demands of Tahrir protesters for a free Egypt, and a slap in the face of the families whose loved ones died protesting for freedom," said Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East and North Africa director at Human Rights Watch. "Any genuine transition toward democracy must be based on respect for the basic rights of the people, including their right to demonstrate."
In the minutes of its third meeting, on March 24, published on its official website, the Egyptian cabinet announced the law, which criminalizes and imposes financial penalties for strikes and demonstrations, and said that it had sent the law to the Supreme Military Council for ratification. The new law provides for punishment "with imprisonment or a fine of not less than 50,000 Egyptian pounds (US$8,400), and not more than 100,000 Egyptian pounds ($16,806) for all those who during the state of emergency call for demonstrations, strikes, sit-ins, or gatherings, or participate in any of the above, leading to the impediment or the obstruction of any of the state institutions or public authorities from performing their role."
The law also penalizes incitement, calls, writings, or any other public advertisements for a protest or strike with imprisonment, and a fine of not less than 30,000 Egyptian pounds ($5,040) and not more than 50,000 Egyptian pounds ($8,400). It provides for imprisonment of not less than one year for the use of violence during a protest or strike, or if the protest or strike results in any destruction of property, "harm to national unity, societal peace or public order," or "harm to public funds, buildings or public or private property."
<snip>
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/03/25/egypt-revoke-ban-...
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Egypt: Arab 'Democracy' Gives Way To A New Islamist State
American Thinker ^ | March 26, 2011 | Rob Miller
Posted on Saturday, March 26, 2011 3:32:27 AM by Rashputin
March 26, 2011 Egypt: Arab 'Democracy' Gives Way To A New Islamist State
Rob Miller
Remember when the pundits, columnists and the newsrooms in the dinosaur media were practically jumping out of their shoes touting the Egyptian 'pro-democracy' movement? How wonderful it all was, and how Egypt was going to be the new liberal paradise in the Arab world? How sagacious and wise Obama was for encouraging it all and dumping Mubarak so quickly?
Well, it appears that some second thoughts and some serious walking back are in order as reality rears its ugly head.
They've finally noticed that the secular unemployed and underemployed twitter addicts and students in Cairo aren't the ones who will be running the new Egypt...it will be the military in partnership with the Ikhwan, the Muslim Brotherhood.
"We are all worried," said Amr Koura, 55, a television producer, reflecting the opinions of the secular minority. "The young people have no control of the revolution anymore. It was evident in the last few weeks when you saw a lot of bearded people taking charge. The youth are gone."
In other words, something more along the lines of Iran, just as I predicted.
And the 'youth' will go along with it, as will the military...just as they did in Iran.
Whaddya know about that?
The folly of the whitewashing of the 'secular' Muslim Brotherhood by the Obama Administration and people like their shills at the Times is about to become all too plain.
The Egyptians, urged on by their imams and the Ikhwan turned out in record numbers to vote for early elections that favor the Brotherhood, not the nascent 'liberal' movements. And it is the new Brotherhood dominated parliament that will revamp Egypt's laws and create a new Islamic Republic that will be absolutely sharia-licious.
The rabid response Ikhwan leader Yusef Qaradawi received when he returned to Egypt should have been one clue to the boys and girls at Parvda-on-the Hudson. So was Lara Logan's gang rape while the crowd screamed "Jew! Jew!"
Islam and the western notion of freedom and democracy don't mix, for the most part.
I'm also going to make another prediction, one that seems quite obvious to me. The Obama Administration's policies in Egypt and the Middle East are almost certain to lead to a new war in the region between Israel and the genocidal Hamas, with a good chance of Hezbollah joining in and Egypt participating, at least tacitly and perhaps overtly.
Mubarak was no friend of Israel, but after seeing the Muslim Brotherhood murder his predecessor Anwar Sadat, he realized that they were a threat to his regime and made efforts to suppress them at home and keep Iranian arms out of the hands of Hamas, the Ikhwan branch in Gaza.
The new Egyptian regime is going to be much more sympathetic to Hamas and isn't likely to make any such efforts, even if they elect to go through the motions of observing the Israel-Egypt peace treaty to keep that fat $2 billion US subsidy coming in. As soon as Hamas feels it's ready, we'll see another war against the Jews.
Since Hezbollah now owns Lebanon and is an Iranian proxy like Hamas, they will almost certainly join in. And we could actually see a scenario where Egyptian popular opinion and religious fervor has the new regime putting their US trained and armed military into the mix as well.
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(http://www.tubgirl.ca/tubgirl.jpg)
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I still havnt committed suicide. Lol.
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I still havnt committed suicide. Lol.
not until I've had my way with you.
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I still havnt committed suicide. Lol.
If I keep proving you wrong and Obama keeps kicking your ass, it'll happen soon
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What have you proven me wrong on?
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What have you proven me wrong on?
on many things..you just never admit it.....it really doesn't matter.....you never will admit when you are owned....I still remember the famous secret serviceman thread where you claimed a secret service agent was transferred because he overheard Obama and Michelle making racist comments about whites...you were the only person in America who gave that story credence....and started a thread in which you were torn to pieces and proven wrong.....instead of admitting you were wrong, you simply disappeared in the middle of the thread....you lost so much credibility with that thread that you haven't recovered since..and now you are just a raving lunatic who starts 10 anti-Obama threads a day....all with the same wrong information or with half-truths
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Meltdown.
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on many things..you just never admit it.....it really doesn't matter.....you never will admit when you are owned....I still remember the famous secret serviceman thread where you claimed a secret service agent was transferred because he overheard Obama and Michelle making racist comments about whites...you were the only person in America who gave that story credence....and started a thread in which you were torn to pieces and proven wrong.....instead of admitting you were wrong, you simply disappeared in the middle of the thread....you lost so much credibility with that thread that you haven't recovered since..and now you are just a raving lunatic who starts 10 anti-Obama threads a day....all with the same wrong information or with half-truths
::) Pot meet kettle
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::) Pot meet kettle
sigh...3333 why not battle with me out in the open instead of using this obvious gimmick?
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Like a rap battle? Or a break dance battle?
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Like a rap battle? Or a break dance battle?
you can't help the racism I guess...even though you don't dare say stuff like this here in the Bronx where you know you would get a good ass-whipping >:(
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sigh...3333 why not battle with me out in the open instead of using this obvious gimmick?
lol - battle?
Fucking retard. It's a discussion board. Do you fancy yourself a knight in shining armor? Perhaps a modern day Patton, lol.
Yeah, you're quite the warrior.
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lol - battle?
Fucking retard. It's a discussion board. Do you fancy yourself a knight in shining armor? Perhaps a modern day Patton, lol.
Yeah, you're quite the warrior.
calm down Gloria...its not that serious....
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P
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calm down Gloria...its not that serious....
Exactly my point. :D
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Five weeks later and andreisdaman still won't refute Ferguson, even when it becomes more and more apparent that everything Ferguson said was right. But he's ready to do "battle". ::)
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Five weeks later and andreisdaman still won't refute Ferguson, even when it becomes more and more apparent that everything Ferguson said was right. But he's ready to do "battle". ::)
MB is taking over even faster than i imagined.
Couple that with lybia and Beck's theory looks like it will be 1000% correct in that the goal is a pan arab islamic caliphate.
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MB is taking over even faster than i imagined.
Couple that with lybia and Beck's theory looks like it will be 1000% correct in that the goal is a pan arab islamic caliphate.
Hahaha, cue andreisdaman to tell us how Egyptians want democracy....as the secular Egyptians admit that they've been completely bullied out of any new government.
Good job, Obama regime! Mubarak and co. spent decades keeping the MB in check and Obama hands them control of half the Middle East in two weeks of failed foreign policy.
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Five weeks later and andreisdaman still won't refute Ferguson, even when it becomes more and more apparent that everything Ferguson said was right. But he's ready to do "battle". ::)
Already refuted Ferguson..you missed it
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Already refuted Ferguson..you missed it
ha ha ha ha ha- bump that post so I can get a good laugh.
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Hahaha, cue andreisdaman to tell us how Egyptians want democracy....as the secular Egyptians admit that they've been completely bullied out of any new government.
Good job, Obama regime! Mubarak and co. spent decades keeping the MB in check and Obama hands them control of half the Middle East in two weeks of failed foreign policy.
it is not up to us to tell them what kind of gov't they should have..if they are stupid enough to form an Islamic government then so be it..its their will.....not our fault..what should we have done?....kill everyone who opposes democracy?...the blame falls to Mubarak who did not reform fast enough....democracy is messy
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Egypt: Muslims Cut Christian Man’s Ear Off, Say They Were “Applying Sharia Law”
(AINA) — A group of Muslims attacked Ayman Anwar Mitri, a 45 year old Christian Coptic man in the Upper Egyptian town of Qena, cutting off his ear. The Muslims claimed they were applying Sharia law because Mr. Mitri allegedly had an illicit affair with a Muslim woman.
The Muslims called the police and told them “We have applied the law of Allah, now come and apply your law,” according to Mr. Mitri in an interview for the Egyptian Human Rights Organization.
Mr. Mitri, a low grade administrator at a secondary school, from elHasweya, in Qena, 492 KM from Cairo, had rented his flat to two Muslim sisters, Abeer and Sabrin Saif Al-Nasr, through an agent. After nine months he learned the sisters had been indicted for prostitution, so he asked them to leave and they did.
http://www.aina.org/news/20110325223845.htm
I just love progressive democracy! ::)
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Ultraconservative Muslim sect clashes with villagers in Egypt
Google News ^ | March 29, 2011 | Maggie Michael
Members of an ultraconservative Muslim sect clashed with villagers south of Cairo over demands that a liquor store and coffee shops be closed, officials said Tuesday, a sign of the increasing assertiveness of the fundamentalist Salafi movement.
One villager was killed and eight others were injured in the armed clashes, which erupted late Monday in the village of Kasr el-Bassil in Fayoum province, a security official said.
The fighting broke out after Salafi followers ordered the owner to close the liquor store and coffee shops as they try to forcibly impose their strict interpretation of Islam by banning the drinking of alcohol.
Salafis were tolerated as a religious group under ex-President Hosni Mubarak to counterweight Mubarak's top foe, the Muslim Brotherhood group but has gained power as it rises to play a more political role as followers now ponder nominate a presidential candidate, following the 18-day uprising that led to the ouster of the former regime. That has alarmed many of the secular and liberal forces in Egypt because of the group's extremist discourse and imposition of Islamic sharia law.
Dozens of Salafis also staged a protest Tuesday in Cairo, accusing the church of abducting Camilla Shehata, a Coptic priest's wife who some believe converted to Islam and is being held against her will. Salafis also have accused the police of collaborating with the church by handing Shehata over to Church authorities to reconvert them. The woman's whereabouts are currently unknown.
Such protests were held almost weekly by the Salafis over the summer as they accused the Coptic Church of conspiring to "Christianize" Egypt, but they largely stopped after a suicide bombing on New Year's Day outside a Coptic church in the port city of Alexandria killed 21 people.
Protesters held signs reading, "peaceful, nonviolent,"
(Excerpt) Read more at google.com ...
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Egypt: Muslims Cut Christian Man’s Ear Off, Say They Were “Applying Sharia Law”
(AINA) — A group of Muslims attacked Ayman Anwar Mitri, a 45 year old Christian Coptic man in the Upper Egyptian town of Qena, cutting off his ear. The Muslims claimed they were applying Sharia law because Mr. Mitri allegedly had an illicit affair with a Muslim woman.
The Muslims called the police and told them “We have applied the law of Allah, now come and apply your law,” according to Mr. Mitri in an interview for the Egyptian Human Rights Organization.
Mr. Mitri, a low grade administrator at a secondary school, from elHasweya, in Qena, 492 KM from Cairo, had rented his flat to two Muslim sisters, Abeer and Sabrin Saif Al-Nasr, through an agent. After nine months he learned the sisters had been indicted for prostitution, so he asked them to leave and they did.
http://www.aina.org/news/20110325223845.htm
I just love progressive democracy! ::)
This is a shame but this was already going on even before Mubarak stepped down..I know you are trying to infer that this is Obama's fault since he supported Mubarak leaving, but it's not..Good try though
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Shocker… Disciplined and Organized Islamists Squeeze Out Youth Groups in Egypt
Gateway Pundit ^ | 4/1/11 | Jim Hoft
If you believed that the Muslim Brotherhood would sit back and watch this opportunity pass them by you were horribly naive. The disciplined and organized Islamist groups in Egypt are already stealing the revolution from the youth groups.
An Egyptian protester shouts slogans at Tahrir Square in Cairo April 1, 2011. Thousands of demonstrators gathered in Tahrir Square calling for the demands of the revolution that toppled former president Hosni Mubarak from power to be met. (REUTERS/Mohamed Abd El-Ghany)
Today thousands of protesters rallied in Tahrir Square in Cairo. But it may be too late. CNN reported:
Thousands of demonstrators gathered in Cairo’s famous Tahrir Square on Friday, as part of an effort by liberal activists to revive their movement after a series of perceived political set-backs.
Dubbed the “Friday to Save the Revolution,” the rally is an effort to show opposition to a recent proposed law which would criminalize protests. It is also an effort to re-assert the youth movement which drove former president Hosni Mubarak from power.
(Excerpt) Read more at gatewaypundit.rightnetwo rk.com ...
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I would like to think the Egyptians are too smart to let the Islamists take this revolution from them
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I would like to think the Egyptians are too smart to let the Islamists take this revolution from them
::)
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:)
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:)
Don't you have anything to do besides coming up with these elaborate graphs???
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Don't you have anything to do besides coming up with these elaborate graphs???
I hit the nail on the head w that graph. Boy Wonder (Robin) Obama is a complete fairy tale and wo blaming others, like he is still doing, he has nothing at all.
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I hit the nail on the head w that graph. Boy Wonder (Robin) Obama is a complete fairy tale and wo blaming others, like he is still doing, he has nothing at all.
you are obsessed with Obama...maybe you are secretly lusting after the black cock?..a lot of racists like you are :)
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you are obsessed with Obama...maybe you are secretly lusting after the black cock?..a lot of racists like you are :)
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Islamists in Egypt seek change through politics
Los Angeles Times ^ | April 3, 2011 | By Jeffrey Fleishman
The secular reformers and twentysomething urbanites at the vanguard of the Jan. 25 revolution have found themselves eclipsed.
The Muslim Brotherhood's calls for a relatively mainstream Islamic government appeals to its majority of educated and professional members. In Egypt's first taste of true democracy, the Brotherhood and more fundamentalist Salafist organizations, however, told followers that it was their religious duty to vote to approve a referendum on constitutional amendments that benefited Islamists by speeding up elections.
The protests in Cairo's Tahrir Square that ended with Mubarak retiring to his villa on the Red Sea riveted the Middle East. That drama suggests that Egypt's post-revolutionary era — its emerging blend of politics and Islam — will have tremendous influence on what evolves in coming generations across the region.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
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Islamists in Egypt seek change through politics
Los Angeles Times ^ | April 3, 2011 | By Jeffrey Fleishman
The secular reformers and twentysomething urbanites at the vanguard of the Jan. 25 revolution have found themselves eclipsed.
The Muslim Brotherhood's calls for a relatively mainstream Islamic government appeals to its majority of educated and professional members. In Egypt's first taste of true democracy, the Brotherhood and more fundamentalist Salafist organizations, however, told followers that it was their religious duty to vote to approve a referendum on constitutional amendments that benefited Islamists by speeding up elections.
The protests in Cairo's Tahrir Square that ended with Mubarak retiring to his villa on the Red Sea riveted the Middle East. That drama suggests that Egypt's post-revolutionary era — its emerging blend of politics and Islam — will have tremendous influence on what evolves in coming generations across the region.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
well if its their will and thats what they want then so be it......if they put in a Muslim government they will essentially push themselves into the dark ages
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well if its their will and thats what they want then so be it......if they put in a Muslim government they will essentially push themselves into the dark ages
It's not the will of the people who started this revolution. They're being bullied out by a stronger, more organized and better funded force. Why is that difficult for you to grasp?
When Egypt turns into a Sunni version of Iran will you still be applauding Obama's flip-flopping failure on this?
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Obama didnt handle shit. Please, you fools are desperate to latch on to anything, just anything, to make this collosal failure look good.
Every single thing this faux messiah has touched has gotten far worse.
bump
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It's not the will of the people who started this revolution. They're being bullied out by a stronger, more organized and better funded force. Why is that difficult for you to grasp?
When Egypt turns into a Sunni version of Iran will you still be applauding Obama's flip-flopping failure on this?
and exactly what could Obama have done to stop this???....the revolution caught everyone off guard....if Obama would have backed Mubarak, there would have been blood on the president's hands, (and on our hands by extension) because then Mubarak would have had the green light to use his security forces to crack down....
besides, this is all Mubarak's fault because he failed to reform in the 30 years he was in power despite the U.S. telling him to....plus trying to put his son in power to succeed him....he is the sole blame for this not Obama..and you know that deep down....
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bump
Ha. Andreisadouche claims he owned Ferguson in this thread. Guy is living in fairy-tale land. He's completely incapable of refuting anything Ferguson says.
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Ha. Andreisadouche claims he owned Ferguson in this thread. Guy is living in fairy-tale land. He's completely incapable of refuting anything Ferguson says.
not true...its just too early to refute anything right now when things are still going on in Egypt and the picture is not yet clear.....unlike you I don't jump on every guys bandwagon right away....I am waiting a little to see how things play out..I don't have an opinion right now other than its not Obama's fault
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not true...its just too early to refute anything right now when things are still going on in Egypt and the picture is not yet clear.....unlike you I don't jump on every guys bandwagon right away....I am waiting a little to see how things play out..I don't have an opinion right now other than its not Obama's fault
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Skip to comments.
Extremist Islamic State: Now the Muslim Brotherhood Is Calling for Egyptian Modesty Police
the blaze ^
The Beginning Of Extremist Islamic State: Now the Muslim Brotherhood Is Calling for Egyptian Modesty Police
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/the-beginning-of-extremist-islamic-state-now-the-muslim-brotherhood-is-calling-egyptian-modesty-police
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Muslim Brotherhood Calls For Establishment of Saudi-Style Islamic Morality Police
(JPost)- Officials of the Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt’s leading Islamic group, have called for the establishment of a Saudi-style modesty police to combat “immoral” behavior in public areas in what observers say in another sign of a growing Islamic self-confidence in the post-Mubarak era.
In the political sphere, the Brotherhood led a successful drive to get voters to approve a package of constitutional amendments. On the street level, at least 20 attacks were perpetrated against the tombs of Muslim mystics (suffis), who are the subject of popular veneration but disparaged by Islamic fundamentalists, or salafis. After some initial hesitation, Islamic leaders have publicly praised the revolution.
“This is incredibly worrying to many Egyptians,” Maye Kassem, a political scientist at the American University in Cairo (AUC), told The Media Line. “The salafis were always undercover in Egypt and now they are emerging as a political force. They are getting too vocal.”
Newly freed from the political strictures of the Mubarak era, Egypt has turned into a battleground between those who envision a liberal, secular state and those who advocate various shades if Islam. The conflict mirrors those taking place elsewhere in the region. In Bahrain, unrest has evolved into a conflict between Sunni- and Shiite Muslims and the US has pulled back from supporting Libyan rebels over concerns they are dominated by Islamists.
Issam Durbala, a member of the Brotherhood’s Shura council, told the Egyptian daily Al-Masri Al-Youm on Sunday, that he supported the establishment of a virtue police, or Hisbah, which had existed in medieval Islamic societies to oversee public virtue and modesty, mostly in the marketplace and other public gathering spaces.
http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=215050
Hahahaha! Welcome to the 7th century, Egypt!
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Salafi Group Demands Implementation of Sharia Law, Calls on Non-Muslims to Submit to Islam
(Al-Masry Al-Youm) — The Salafi group in Alexandria said it is seeking to implement Islamic Sharia law no matter how difficult the task.
During a conference held at Amr Ibn al-Aas mosque in Giza on Friday, several of the group’s leaders called on non-Muslims to accept the rule of Islam which it argues provides sufficient protection for them.
Salafi leaders also said they are holding their conference to respond to “media attacks” and “the lies of liberalism” and general “anti-Islamic” sentiment.
Saeed Abdel Azeem, a Salafi leader, said that some people are waging a fierce campaign against the Salafi movement even though the group shuns violence. This began shortly after the results of the recent referendum on constitutional amendments were announced, he said, adding that the media, Mohamed ElBaradei, Amr Moussa and liberal parties consider themselves allied together against Islamists.
“But no matter how strongly it is attacked, Salafism is continuously advancing, and this attack won’t affect it,” he said.
Ahmed Farid, another Salafi leader, said liberal and secular attacks have become increasingly ferocious, even though Salafism represents the correct understanding of Islam, and the attackers are actually harming themselves.
He said some claim that Salafis are more dangerous than Jews.
http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/node/384505
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Andreisamoron thinks thi is all considered progress. ::) ::)
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Andreisamoron thinks thi is all considered progress. ::) ::)
The far-left has never been known for having a firm grasp of world affairs. They can't grasp the fact that their fairy-tale Utopia doesn't exist. ::)
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:D
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:D
That's racist! Muslims are tolerant and accepting people. Just ask the 10 UN workers that were murdered this weekend.
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:D
FUNNY!!!! ;D
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ElBaradei: We'll fight back if Israel attacks Gaza
________________________ ________________________ ___
In interview with Arab newspaper, former IAEA chief says if elected as Egypt's next president he will open Rafah crossing in case of an Israeli attack
Ynet Published: 04.04.11, 14:15 / Israel News
Former International Atomic Energy Agency chief Mohamed ElBaradei, who had previously announced his intetions to run for the presidency of Egypt, said Monday that “if Israel attacked Gaza we would declare war against the Zionist regime."
New Government
Egypt: Israel must pay us back for gas / Doron Peskin
Foreign Minister Nabil al-Arabi to demand that Jewish state pay price differences for reduced gas exported during Mubarak era
Full Story
In an interview with the Al-Watan newspaper he said: "In case of any future Israeli attack on Gaza - as the next president of Egypt – I will open the Rafah border crossing and will consider different ways to implement the joint Arab defense agreement."
He also stated that "Israel controls Palestinian soil" adding that that "there has been no tangible breakthrough in reconciliation process because of the imbalance of power in the region - a situation that creates a kind of one way peace."
Discussing his agenda for Egypt, ElBaradei said that distribution of income between the different classes in Egypt would be his most important priority if he were to win the upcoming elections.
ELBaradei's main competition is Arab League Secretary General and former Egyptian Foreign Minister Amr Moussa. Last month he discussed Egypt's relationship with Israel. "During my term in office the foreign ministry was subject to unfavorable policies from Israel with regards to the peace agreement," Said Moussa who served as foreign minister 1991-2001," he said.
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"We thought the peace process was like a waterwheel – endlessly turning around and around without reaching a defined point. My opinion was that we needed to be honest with the Israelis, taking determined measures within the framework of the foreign ministry's operations. Maybe this led to a lack of agreement on all Israel related issues."
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4051939,00.html
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The far-left has never been known for having a firm grasp of world affairs. They can't grasp the fact that their fairy-tale Utopia doesn't exist. ::)
I don't know where you got the idea that I am "far left" as you put it...as I have said I supported Bush in his presidency...no one on the "far left" would do that...I am a reasonable person who supports Obama..whats wrong with that?..unfortunately you paint everyone with the same brush and just assume that support of Obama means support for the far left loonies....
If anything you guys have presented yourselves as radical in that it seems you guys support the far-right agenda all the time and never disagree with it
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I don't know where you got the idea that I am "far left" as you put it...as I have said I supported Bush in his presidency...no one on the "far left" would do that...I am a reasonable person who supports Obama..whats wrong with that?..unfortunately you paint everyone with the same brush and just assume that support of Obama means support for the far left loonies....
If anything you guys have presented yourselves as radical in that it seems you guys support the far-right agenda all the time and never disagree with it
Anyone that dosent hate Obama and blame him for the sky being gray is labeled as a Far Left Radical.. This is America, Moderate dosent exsist
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Anyone that dosent hate Obama and blame him for the sky being gray is labeled as a Far Left Radical.. This is America, Moderate dosent exsist
Anyone that doesnt hate obama at this point for any one of 2,000,000 reasons we can discus is not moderate at all, but a dope.
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Anyone that dosent hate Obama and blame him for the sky being gray is labeled as a Far Left Radical.. This is America, Moderate dosent exsist
yes..exactly
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NBC’s Brokaw: Saudis ‘So Unhappy' With Obama They Sent Emissaries to China, Russia Seeking Enhanced Ties
Wednesday, April 06, 2011
By Susan Jones
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/nbc-s-brokaw-saudis-so-unhappy-obama-adm
(CNSNews.com) – Reporting from Baghdad, Iraq yesterday, NBC’s Tom Brokaw said the Saudi Arabian monarchy is “so unhappy with the Obama administration for the way it pushed out President Mubarak of Egypt” that it has sent senior officials to the Peoples' Republic of China and Russia to seek expanded business opportunities with those countries.
After remarking on the difficulty of establishing democracy in the Middle East, Brokaw said that Defense Secretary Robert Gates “will face some tough questions in this region about the American intentions going on now with all this new turmoil, especially in an area where the United States has such big stakes politically and economically.”
“And a lot of those questions presumably will come from King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia,” reported Brokaw on the Nightly News. “I was told on the way in here that the Saudis are so unhappy with the Obama administration for the way it pushed out President Mubarak of Egypt that it sent high level emissaries to China and Russia to tell those two countries that Saudi Arabia now is prepared to do more business with them.”
Tom Brokaw. (Photo by David Shankbone/Wikipedia Commons)
Brokaw continued, “Back here in Iraq, the political and the economic situation remains fragile. So fragile that the U.N. secretary general is worried that this country could now see massive protests in the streets once again.”
Earlier in his report, Brokaw noted that while U.S. military forces are supposed to leave Iraq at year’s end, the U.S. Embassy staff was being beefed-up from 8,000 to nearly 20,000 personnel.
“So Iraq is a reminder of just how difficult it is to establish a democracy in this part of the world,” said Brokaw. “After all, we've been at war here for eight years now, hundreds of billions of dollars have been spent, and thousands and thousands of lives have been lost on both sides.”
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.......Egyptians turn anger on army in Cairo protest
By Patrick Werr and Marwa Awad | Reuters – 2 hours 56 minutes ago
CAIRO (Reuters) - Thousands of protesters turned their anger on the army on Saturday demanding that Egypt's ruling military council hand power to civilians and pressing for former President Hosni Mubarak to be put on trial.
The army, which has ruled Egypt since Mubarak was forced out of office on February 11, has become a growing target for a hardcore of protesters who say the generals are colluding with remnants of Mubarak's network and thwarting calls for a deeper purge.
"The military council is part and parcel of the corrupt regime. It is made up of heads of the army that have benefited from Mubarak and his 30 years of robbing the Egyptian people," said Abdullah Ahmed, 45, a protester in Cairo's Tahrir Square.
The army dismisses such charges and says it is guarding against any attempt by former officials to undermine reforms.
Protester ire was fueled on Saturday after the army tried to clear demonstrators from Tahrir during curfew hours from 2 a.m. to 5 a.m. Troops and police used tasers and batons. Sounds of gunshots rang out across the square overnight.
Medical sources said two men died out of 15 wounded by gunshots. The army said it only fired blanks and its operation caused no deaths. State television said one person was killed and 71 were wounded in acts of rioting, without giving details.
It was not clear if there were any other armed people in the square when the shots were fired.
Hundreds of thousands of Egyptians had packed into Tahrir on Friday in the biggest protests since February 18, when millions turned out across Egypt to celebrate Mubarak's downfall.
CHANTS AGAINST ARMY COUNCIL
The army met opposition when it tried to rid the square of a few thousand hardy protesters who stayed late into Friday night.
"Thank God, we resisted them (the army), and we are still here," said one protester in Tahrir, which was the epicenter of demonstrations that pushed Mubarak out on February 11.
Hundreds were still in Tahrir by early on Saturday morning. Those numbers rose to several thousand later in the day. "Why is the army beating us? Why is the army firing at us?" protesters chanted overnight when the army moved in, a witness reported.
Some protesters want the ruling Supreme Council of the Armed Forces to hand power to a civilian council and have called for the resignation of Field Marshal Mohamed Hussein Tantawi, who heads the army council. He has stayed on as defense minister after serving for two decades in that post under Mubarak.
"Either Field Marshal Tantawi puts these people -- Mubarak, Gamal (his son), and the others -- on trial, or he leaves his post and lets someone else do it. The slowness of the process makes people suspicious that the army (leadership) might be implicated," said Ashraf Abdel-Aziz, 36, a shop owner.
In scenes reminiscent of the height of protests against Mubarak, three burned-out army vehicles were left in the square. Some protesters, angry at the army's tactics, hurled rocks at the smoldering hulk of one of the army trucks.
"The army is in a tough position. What happened Friday was a result of the army's mismanagement of how to steer the revolution forward, but not complicity with the old Mubarak regime," said Hasan Nafaa, a political science professor who was active in mobilizing the protest movement.
"The army is trying to make a balance between carrying out reforms, purging the old system and maintaining economic and political stability. The army knows well that many key people from Mubarak's era control the economy and have deep roots in society. It is therefore taking measured steps," Nafaa said.
Many ordinary Egyptians are tired of the protests that have hurt the economy and want an end to the disruption.
COMPLAINTS GROW
The ruling military council said police and soldiers had "confronted acts of rioting and implemented a curfew" without causing any loss of life and blamed disturbances on "elements outside the law in Tahrir," the state news agency reported.
The council also said on its Facebook page it had ordered the detention of Ibrahim Kamel, a senior member in Mubarak's party, for "incitement and thuggery by some of his associates that stirred up the people in Tahrir Square" on Friday.
The council said it would "continue with firmness to seek out remnants of the previous regime and National Democratic Party" involved in such acts in order to maintain security.
The military has enjoyed broad support since it took control, but complaints against its rule have grown.
"We condemn the intentional slowness of the military council in meeting demands of the revolution and call on Egyptians to return to Tahrir Square and stay until Mubarak and his followers are arrested and tried," the coalition of youth groups, which drove the initial anti-Mubarak protests, said in a statement.
"We want the army and the system to be purged of all corrupt complicitous officials who want to stop the revolution in its tracks," said Mohamed Noubi, 23, a protester in Tahrir.
Some protesters took barbed wire that had been left unused by the army on Saturday and dragged it across roads leading to the square. As they had done during protests to oust Mubarak, demonstrators started checking IDs of those entering Tahrir.
"We will not leave here again until they take tangible steps to put Mubarak and high officials on trial," said Mohamed Abdul-Karim, 31, a lawyer. He said he was a member of a committee to protect the rights of people injured in protests.
Mubarak and his family are banned from leaving Egypt. The former president, 82, is living in internal exile in the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh.
The military had forcibly dispersed protesters before from Tahrir Square. In that case, the military apologized the next day, saying there had been no order to assault the protesters and called the incident unintentional.
..
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/egypt-military-beats-protesters-fires-shots-20110408-190404-407.html
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Shelling in East Libya Forces Rebel Retreat
Voice of America ^ | April 9, 2011
Pro-government forces in Libya have shelled rebel fighters near Ajdabiya, challenging the rebels' hold on the city. The attacks Saturday forced rebels to retreat, slowing their westward advance toward the oil town of Brega on the Mediterranean Sea. Brega has gone from regime to rebel control and back again several times since the start of an uprising against the government of Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi. Meanwhile, the Red Cross says a ship carrying medical supplies has docked in Misrata, a town that has been besieged by pro-Gadhafi forces for weeks. It is the only city in western Libya where rebels have been able to maintain control.
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Botched Nato bomb raid on Brega leaves 13 Libyan rebels dead after jets blast wrong convoy
By David Williams and Richard Pendlebury
Last updated at 9:24 AM on 8th April 2011
Comments (81) Add to My Stories .
Libyan rebels turned their fury on Nato yesterday after at least 13 fighters were killed and dozens wounded in an airstrike.
Rebel commanders said tanks and military hardware captured from Colonel Gaddafi’s forces had been attacked in daylight with missiles despite being marked on the top in yellow as requested by Nato.
Four missiles hit the 30-vehicle convoy, which included a bus packed with fighters, on the outskirts of the eastern oil port of Brega, according to one rebel commander.
Pain: Rebel fighters comfort a wounded comrade who was brought to the hospital in Ajdabiya
Injured: Medics wheel a rebel fighter into the hospital in Ajdabiya after the Nato attack on Brega
Despair: Libyan rebel fighters after delivering wounded and killed comrades to a hospital in Ajdabiya
Nato said last night it was investigating the claims that, if confirmed, would be the third time rebels or civilians have been killed after being mistaken for pro-Gaddafi forces.
The claims came as it was revealed another one-time senior Gaddafi official had defected.
Following foreign minister Musa Kusa’s arrival in the UK last week, Omar Fathi bin Shatwan, a former energy minister, sought sanctuary in Malta. He said several other key figures also wanted to defect.
It was unclear last night whose planes were involved in the mistaken strikes but both the RAF and the French have been carrying out attacks in the region.
More...'People are dying every day': Libyan rebel leader attacks NATO's 'slow' air strike response time 'Stop the unjust war on Libya... and good luck with the election: Gaddafi's rambling letter to Barack ObamaSend in the dogs of war: Mercenaries could help the rag-tag rebels say UK generalsWar in Libya prompts Downing Street retreat on defence cuts
The rebels have been using anti-aircraft guns as artillery and there was a suggestion that the airstrike was triggered when one opened fire on government forces in Brega.
An ambulance was one of the vehicles hit and three volunteer medical students were among the dead. Doctors said many rebels suffered terrible burns in the attack.
One rebel fighter shouted ‘down, down with Nato’ as dozens of vehicles retreated eastwards at speed from the frontlines back towards the city of Ajdabiya.
Later, hundreds of cars poured out of Ajdabiya towards the de facto rebel capital, Benghazi, amid fears that better organised pro-Gaddafi forces could use the disarray among rebel units to advance.
Break from the front line: A rebel looks out of a destroyed tank belonging to Gaddafi forces where he had been smoking marijuana with friends
On the move: Libyan rebel fighters load a missile launcher on a truck from the front line on the west gate of Ajdabiya
RAPE VICTIM TELLS OF ORDEAL
The gang-rape victim who was dragged away by Gaddafi’s henchmen as she tried to tell the world about her ordeal has given her first face-to-face interview.
Libyan lawyer Eman al-Obeidy told CNN she was repeatedly raped after being abducted by drunken Libyan security guards. She said: ‘There are a lot of bruises on my body as a result of the torture.
‘The people who have attacked me, raped me, kidnapped me, tortured me and locked me up are still wandering the streets.’
There had been fears for her safety after she was hauled away from a Tripoli hotel, but CNN said she was given the go-ahead to talk by Gaddafi’s son, Saadi, who sat in on the interview and reportedly promised to bring her attackers to justice.
.At the city’s hospital, rebels said they heard planes and expected the attack to be on the forward lines of Gaddafi’s forces.
‘They are equipped with all that technology, which we haven’t got,’ said Yassim Muttar, who had come in with a badly injured friend.
‘They must have been able to see that it was us going forward. Why did they do this? Do they want Gaddafi to win?’
‘Why is Nato dropping bombs east of Brega when Gaddafi’s forces are to the west?’ asked Omar Mohammed.
Salem Mislat added: ‘We were standing by our tanks and Nato fired rockets at us. Nato are liars. They are siding with Gaddafi.’
Rebel commander Ayman Abdul-Karim said he saw airstrikes hit tanks and a rebel convoy, which included a passenger bus carrying fighters.
Despite the presence of forward air controllers guiding missiles to their targets with lasers and pinpoint technology, the apparent blunder illustrated the difficulties Nato forces face.
Rebel discontent with Nato is growing. Opposition commanders have complained in recent days that airstrikes are coming too slowly and lacking the precision to give the rebels an edge.
Angry troops pointed out yesterday that the convoy, which included tanks, rocket launchers and armoured vehicles, was heading from the rebel lines towards Gaddafi’s so it should have been clear who they were.
Shocked: Rebel fighters comfort one another at Ajdabiya
Worn down: A Libyan rebel fighter mourns over a fallen comrade whose body lies in the back of their vehicle
Nato officials say pro-Gaddafi troops have blended into civilian areas to frustrate the bombing runs.
Amid the chaos outside Brega yesterday, they opened fire on retreating rebels. Meanwhile, a ship carrying medical supplies from the British Government docked in the besieged town of Misrata last night.
The Marianne Danica, chartered by the UN’s World Food Programme, is carrying £130,000 of aid. International Development Secretary Andrew Mitchell said: ‘It sends a message to the people of Misrata that they haven’t been forgotten.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1374434/Nato-bomb-raid-Brega-leaves-13-Libyan-rebels-dead-jets-blast-wrong-convoy.html#
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..Egyptians turn anger on army in Cairo protest
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/egypt-military-beats-protesters-fires-shots-20110408-190404-407.html
By Patrick Werr and Marwa Awad | Reuters – Sat, 9 Apr, 2011 8:53 AM EDT
...A protester shows a bullet and teargas canister he said the army used to disperse …
....CAIRO (Reuters) - Thousands of protesters turned their anger on the army on Saturday demanding that Egypt's ruling military council hand power to civilians and pressing for former President Hosni Mubarak to be put on trial.
The army, which has ruled Egypt since Mubarak was forced out of office on February 11, has become a growing target for a hardcore of protesters who say the generals are colluding with remnants of Mubarak's network and thwarting calls for a deeper purge.
"The military council is part and parcel of the corrupt regime. It is made up of heads of the army that have benefited from Mubarak and his 30 years of robbing the Egyptian people," said Abdullah Ahmed, 45, a protester in Cairo's Tahrir Square.
The army dismisses such charges and says it is guarding against any attempt by former officials to undermine reforms.
Protester ire was fueled on Saturday after the army tried to clear demonstrators from Tahrir during curfew hours from 2 a.m. to 5 a.m. Troops and police used tasers and batons. Sounds of gunshots rang out across the square overnight.
Medical sources said two men died out of 15 wounded by gunshots. The army said it only fired blanks and its operation caused no deaths. State television said one person was killed and 71 were wounded in acts of rioting, without giving details.
It was not clear if there were any other armed people in the square when the shots were fired.
Hundreds of thousands of Egyptians had packed into Tahrir on Friday in the biggest protests since February 18, when millions turned out across Egypt to celebrate Mubarak's downfall.
CHANTS AGAINST ARMY COUNCIL
The army met opposition when it tried to rid the square of a few thousand hardy protesters who stayed late into Friday night.
"Thank God, we resisted them (the army), and we are still here," said one protester in Tahrir, which was the epicenter of demonstrations that pushed Mubarak out on February 11.
Hundreds were still in Tahrir by early on Saturday morning. Those numbers rose to several thousand later in the day. "Why is the army beating us? Why is the army firing at us?" protesters chanted overnight when the army moved in, a witness reported.
Some protesters want the ruling Supreme Council of the Armed Forces to hand power to a civilian council and have called for the resignation of Field Marshal Mohamed Hussein Tantawi, who heads the army council. He has stayed on as defense minister after serving for two decades in that post under Mubarak.
"Either Field Marshal Tantawi puts these people -- Mubarak, Gamal (his son), and the others -- on trial, or he leaves his post and lets someone else do it. The slowness of the process makes people suspicious that the army (leadership) might be implicated," said Ashraf Abdel-Aziz, 36, a shop owner.
In scenes reminiscent of the height of protests against Mubarak, three burned-out army vehicles were left in the square. Some protesters, angry at the army's tactics, hurled rocks at the smoldering hulk of one of the army trucks.
"The army is in a tough position. What happened Friday was a result of the army's mismanagement of how to steer the revolution forward, but not complicity with the old Mubarak regime," said Hasan Nafaa, a political science professor who was active in mobilizing the protest movement.
"The army is trying to make a balance between carrying out reforms, purging the old system and maintaining economic and political stability. The army knows well that many key people from Mubarak's era control the economy and have deep roots in society. It is therefore taking measured steps," Nafaa said.
Many ordinary Egyptians are tired of the protests that have hurt the economy and want an end to the disruption.
COMPLAINTS GROW
The ruling military council said police and soldiers had "confronted acts of rioting and implemented a curfew" without causing any loss of life and blamed disturbances on "elements outside the law in Tahrir," the state news agency reported.
The council also said on its Facebook page it had ordered the detention of Ibrahim Kamel, a senior member in Mubarak's party, for "incitement and thuggery by some of his associates that stirred up the people in Tahrir Square" on Friday.
The council said it would "continue with firmness to seek out remnants of the previous regime and National Democratic Party" involved in such acts in order to maintain security.
The military has enjoyed broad support since it took control, but complaints against its rule have grown.
"We condemn the intentional slowness of the military council in meeting demands of the revolution and call on Egyptians to return to Tahrir Square and stay until Mubarak and his followers are arrested and tried," the coalition of youth groups, which drove the initial anti-Mubarak protests, said in a statement.
"We want the army and the system to be purged of all corrupt complicitous officials who want to stop the revolution in its tracks," said Mohamed Noubi, 23, a protester in Tahrir.
Some protesters took barbed wire that had been left unused by the army on Saturday and dragged it across roads leading to the square. As they had done during protests to oust Mubarak, demonstrators started checking IDs of those entering Tahrir.
"We will not leave here again until they take tangible steps to put Mubarak and high officials on trial," said Mohamed Abdul-Karim, 31, a lawyer. He said he was a member of a committee to protect the rights of people injured in protests.
Mubarak and his family are banned from leaving Egypt. The former president, 82, is living in internal exile in the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh.
The military had forcibly dispersed protesters before from Tahrir Square. In that case, the military apologized the next day, saying there had been no order to assault the protesters and called the incident unintentional.
..
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NBC’s Brokaw: Saudis ‘So Unhappy' With Obama They Sent Emissaries to China, Russia Seeking Enhanced Ties
you are pissed when he bows to the saudis.
you are pissed when he tells the saudis to chill out.
will you ever be happy?
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you are pissed when he bows to the saudis.
you are pissed when he tells the saudis to chill out.
will you ever be happy?
::) ::)
For the time being - are Russia and China going to sell us oil now that the boy wonberbama is pissing off one of our main suppliers?
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::) ::)
For the time being - are Russia and China going to sell us oil now that the boy wonberbama is pissing off one of our main suppliers?
you are confused again as usual....you want to have it both ways....you say Obama is wrong when he supports the Saudi's because they fund terorism...then when he goes against them you say he is wrong for pissing off an oil ally...
again..you guys on here lack credibility and are nuts.....you hate Obama and due to this you have no credibility and are biased
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bump for conservative idiots like 3333, Berzerk fury, Toxic avenger and Kazan
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Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
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Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Obama totally caved the right's face in today (verbally, of course).
You gotta admit it, bro.
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Obama totally caved the right's face in today (verbally, of course).
You gotta admit it, bro.
of course he did
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bump for conservative idiots like 3333, Berzerk fury, Toxic avenger and Kazan
Been called worse by better
Fuck the Saudi's should taken over the ME after WWII, or blown the fuckers straight to hell after the oil embargo. The Saudi's are no friend to the US, never have been. The fact that the POTUS bows to them is an embarrassment.
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Obama totally caved the right's face in today (verbally, of course).
You gotta admit it, bro.
I think his campaign speech has been thoroughly destroyed in other threads.
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Muslim brotherhead taking over as we predicted. Yeah great jpb bama!
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Muslim brotherhead taking over as we predicted. Yeah great jpb bama!
why "great job Obama"?..it was an Egyptian revolution
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why "great job Obama"?..it was an Egyptian revolution
And you believe the US putting pressure on Mubarack had nothing to do with him stepping down?
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And you believe the US putting pressure on Mubarack had nothing to do with him stepping down?
of course it did...but he had to go.....there was no other choice..in your opinion should he have begun to kill the protesters to stay in power???
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of course it did...but he had to go.....there was no other choice..in your opinion should he have begun to kill the protesters to stay in power???
Why did he have to go? What % of the population was protesting? You have no idea and neither did our government, in their rush to push "democracy" they handed Egypt to islamic extremest, brilliant idea
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O's Saudi scramble
By BENNY AVNI
Last Updated: 4:32 AM, April 15, 2011
The Obama administration is scrambling to repair dam aged relations with Ameri ca's most prominent Arab ally -- and it's hard to blame the Saudis for being furious.
Last week, Defense Secretary Robert Gates had to beg for an audience in the Saudi king's palace. (Gates was making the rounds in the region -- but the Saudis at first declined to see him.) Then National Security Adviser Tom Donilon showed up again on Wednesday for a hastily arranged meet. According to The Washington Post, he hand-delivered a secret letter from President Obama to King Abdullah.
And yesterday the White House was busy heaping praise on the Saudis.
Behind the drama is growing Saudi anger at Obama's Mideast policies. Specifically, Abdullah is dismayed at the speed with which Obama threw an Arab ally, Egypt's President Mubarak, under the bus. He's also miffed at the State Department's criticism of his own policy in Bahrain.
The king was undergoing treatment in New York for various ailments typical of an 87-year-old this winter when events in North Africa started to spiral, threatening to engulf the entire Arab world. Even before his hasty return home to handle things himself, Abdullah was said to be seething at the US response. For him, the administration's call for Mubarak to hand powers over to
the Tahrir Square crowd was a personal insult.
What if I'm next? is a natural fear for a leader whose country bars women from receiving drivers' licenses and now hears Washington advocating Arab freedom. In fact, Abdullah is keeping relative calm in his country by spreading cash to would-be opponents. But there's a bigger sticking point: Obama's on-again, off-again support of Mideast democracy (at best) fails to distinguish between friend and foe.
When Iran erupted in 2009, our president was subdued. Yet when Egypt erupted, his top aides enthusiastically joined excitable al Jazeera reporters in marveling at freedom-loving demonstrations.
Even more acutely, Abdullah was stung at Washington's criticism of his decision last month to send troops to help his tiny protectorate island state of Bahrain fend off an Iranian-backed Shiite uprising.
In a typical State Department briefing this week, the denunciation of Bahrain's actions in putting down the rebellion was as blunt as the condemnation of Syria's brutality and even more specific. This, when two months of strife in Bahrain have produced two dozen recorded deaths -- while a few weeks of protest in Syria yielded several hundred fatalities, by even the most conservative estimates.
Oh, and Syria is an ally of Iran, helps anti-American insurgents in Iraq and supports Hezbollah and Hamas -- while Bahrain hosts the US Navy's Fifth Fleet's headquarters.
So the Saudis have reasons for being furious with Obama, not that they'd show it publicly. That's not the way old desert Bedouins handle such things. Sources tell me Saudi intelligence has recently cooled its cooperation with US partners chasing al Qaeda. Other subtle signals include even more stinginess than normal in donations to the Palestinian Authority, which America hopes to increase.
The Saudis' recent reduction in pumping may not be another signal: Riyadh initially increased production to offset rising oil prices after the Libya crisis erupted. But soaring gasoline prices are a reminder of how sensitive the US economy can be to the mood of a king whose family has served as America's staunchest desert petroleum ally for nearly a century.
The Obama administration sees itself as adept at diplomacy, taking great pride in its reliance on a "realist" approach to international affairs and its ability to grasp the specifics of every situation -- in other words, the exact opposite of its predecessor's (supposed) go-it-alone, ideologically driven sledgehammer ways.
Yet, despite the reset, after months of neglect, Riyadh increasingly feels under siege. Iran has allies gaining strength in Yemen to the south and Iraq to the north and, most acutely, Bahrain and the Saudis' own eastern regions, where Shiites are the majority -- and America is no help.
We can't democratize the whole Arab world at once, so Obama for now must keep friendships with the few old regimes that remain our allies. Who knows, if he shows more readiness to confront Iran, perhaps Obama won't need to bow to the king again just to get on the Saudi's good side. beavni@gmail.com
NEW YORK POST is a registered trademark of NYP Holdings, Inc.
nypost.com , nypostonline.com , and newyorkpost.com are trademarks of NYP Holdings, Inc.
Copyright 2011 NYP Holdings, Inc. All rights reserved. Privacy | Terms of Use
-
O's Saudi scramble
By BENNY AVNI
Last Updated: 4:32 AM, April 15, 2011
The Obama administration is scrambling to repair dam aged relations with Ameri ca's most prominent Arab ally -- and it's hard to blame the Saudis for being furious.
Last week, Defense Secretary Robert Gates had to beg for an audience in the Saudi king's palace. (Gates was making the rounds in the region -- but the Saudis at first declined to see him.) Then National Security Adviser Tom Donilon showed up again on Wednesday for a hastily arranged meet. According to The Washington Post, he hand-delivered a secret letter from President Obama to King Abdullah.
And yesterday the White House was busy heaping praise on the Saudis.
Behind the drama is growing Saudi anger at Obama's Mideast policies. Specifically, Abdullah is dismayed at the speed with which Obama threw an Arab ally, Egypt's President Mubarak, under the bus. He's also miffed at the State Department's criticism of his own policy in Bahrain.
The king was undergoing treatment in New York for various ailments typical of an 87-year-old this winter when events in North Africa started to spiral, threatening to engulf the entire Arab world. Even before his hasty return home to handle things himself, Abdullah was said to be seething at the US response. For him, the administration's call for Mubarak to hand powers over to
the Tahrir Square crowd was a personal insult.
What if I'm next? is a natural fear for a leader whose country bars women from receiving drivers' licenses and now hears Washington advocating Arab freedom. In fact, Abdullah is keeping relative calm in his country by spreading cash to would-be opponents. But there's a bigger sticking point: Obama's on-again, off-again support of Mideast democracy (at best) fails to distinguish between friend and foe.
When Iran erupted in 2009, our president was subdued. Yet when Egypt erupted, his top aides enthusiastically joined excitable al Jazeera reporters in marveling at freedom-loving demonstrations.
Even more acutely, Abdullah was stung at Washington's criticism of his decision last month to send troops to help his tiny protectorate island state of Bahrain fend off an Iranian-backed Shiite uprising.
In a typical State Department briefing this week, the denunciation of Bahrain's actions in putting down the rebellion was as blunt as the condemnation of Syria's brutality and even more specific. This, when two months of strife in Bahrain have produced two dozen recorded deaths -- while a few weeks of protest in Syria yielded several hundred fatalities, by even the most conservative estimates.
Oh, and Syria is an ally of Iran, helps anti-American insurgents in Iraq and supports Hezbollah and Hamas -- while Bahrain hosts the US Navy's Fifth Fleet's headquarters.
So the Saudis have reasons for being furious with Obama, not that they'd show it publicly. That's not the way old desert Bedouins handle such things. Sources tell me Saudi intelligence has recently cooled its cooperation with US partners chasing al Qaeda. Other subtle signals include even more stinginess than normal in donations to the Palestinian Authority, which America hopes to increase.
The Saudis' recent reduction in pumping may not be another signal: Riyadh initially increased production to offset rising oil prices after the Libya crisis erupted. But soaring gasoline prices are a reminder of how sensitive the US economy can be to the mood of a king whose family has served as America's staunchest desert petroleum ally for nearly a century.
The Obama administration sees itself as adept at diplomacy, taking great pride in its reliance on a "realist" approach to international affairs and its ability to grasp the specifics of every situation -- in other words, the exact opposite of its predecessor's (supposed) go-it-alone, ideologically driven sledgehammer ways.
Yet, despite the reset, after months of neglect, Riyadh increasingly feels under siege. Iran has allies gaining strength in Yemen to the south and Iraq to the north and, most acutely, Bahrain and the Saudis' own eastern regions, where Shiites are the majority -- and America is no help.
We can't democratize the whole Arab world at once, so Obama for now must keep friendships with the few old regimes that remain our allies. Who knows, if he shows more readiness to confront Iran, perhaps Obama won't need to bow to the king again just to get on the Saudi's good side. beavni@gmail.com
NEW YORK POST is a registered trademark of NYP Holdings, Inc.
nypost.com , nypostonline.com , and newyorkpost.com are trademarks of NYP Holdings, Inc.
Copyright 2011 NYP Holdings, Inc. All rights reserved. Privacy | Terms of Use
Are you posting directly from the courtroom?
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No, heading to Brooklyn Supreme in a bit. Have a motion on for Summary Judgement against contractor for an an engineer client. I have another matter n in another courtroom to extend a mechanic's lien. Also have to file a "Notice of Trial" in a case down there. Come back to office, i have to square away a real estate closing woking on as well as putpaprwork together to discharge a mechanic's lien on a hospital. After that, send out estimated taxes. The, I have about 100 cals to make to deadbeats to pay up. Go to the gym, watch the Capitals hopefully beat the Rangers, etc.
I'm heading out to the subway in a little bit. Doyou want me to send you a love note from Grand Central when I get there in about 30 minutes?
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Why did he have to go? What % of the population was protesting? You have no idea and neither did our government, in their rush to push "democracy" they handed Egypt to islamic extremest, brilliant idea
why do I even bother with you???.. the guy had been in power 30m years....had he stayed in power it would have pushed Egypt into civil war with lots of bloodshed..do you condone that????
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No, heading to Brooklyn Supreme in a bit. Have a motion on for Summary Judgement against contractor for an an engineer client. I have another matter n in another courtroom to extend a mechanic's lien. Also have to file a "Notice of Trial" in a case down there. Come back to office, i have to square away a real estate closing woking on as well as putpaprwork together to discharge a mechanic's lien on a hospital. After that, send out estimated taxes. The, I have about 100 cals to make to deadbeats to pay up. Go to the gym, watch the Capitals hopefully beat the Rangers, etc.
I'm heading out to the subway in a little bit. Doyou want me to send you a love note from Grand Central when I get there in about 30 minutes?
what time are you going to commit suicide???...this thread has totally destroyed you ;D
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I'm heading out to the subway in a little bit. Doyou want me to send you a love note from Grand Central when I get there in about 30 minutes?
yes.
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why do I even bother with you???.. the guy had been in power 30m years....had he stayed in power it would have pushed Egypt into civil war with lots of bloodshed..do you condone that????
The real question is why do I even bother with you? You understanding of the ME is rudimentary at best, yet you think your going to lecture me on who should go and who should stay. Let me make something perfectly clear I don't care, if the Egyptians want to kill each other so be it. The only time the US should even make a statement is when a US interest is in jeopardy. I find it strange that all you leftys come out of the wood work crying about the poor civilians, when the same shit has been going on for centuries. You don't give a flying fuck until some half assed story shows up on CNN, then the tissues come out. It is not the job of the US or it's military to spread "democracy", though it does make a nice headline when we get duped by Europe into bombing a foreign country. Their job is to protect our representative republic.
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The real question is why do I even bother with you? You understanding of the ME is rudimentary at best, yet you think your going to lecture me on who should go and who should stay. Let me make something perfectly clear I don't care, if the Egyptians want to kill each other so be it. The only time the US should even make a statement is when a US interest is in jeopardy. I find it strange that all you leftys come out of the wood work crying about the poor civilians, when the same shit has been going on for centuries. You don't give a flying fuck until some half assed story shows up on CNN, then the tissues come out. It is not the job of the US or it's military to spread "democracy", though it does make a nice headline when we get duped by Europe into bombing a foreign country. Their job is to protect our representative republic.
so you think we should have backed Mubarak and condoned his killing of protesters???
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so you think we should have backed Mubarak and condoned his killing of protesters???
Reading comprehension problem?
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Reading comprehension problem?
no...just can't believe you could actually be that ignorant....had to ask you again to make sure..and I guess you truly are
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no...just can't believe you could actually be that ignorant....had to ask you again to make sure..and I guess you truly are
You seem to think you are some intellectual giant, why should I care what the Egyptians are doing?
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Radical Islamist groups gaining stranglehold in Egypt
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/8457030/Radial-Islamist-groups-gaining-stranglehold-in-Egypt.html
The rapid spread of Muslim political parties ahead of September's parliamentary elections has strengthened fears that Egyptian democracy will be dominated by radical Islamic movements.
Mohammed Badie, the Muslim Brotherhood's spiritual leader, last week predicted the group's candidates would win 75 per cent of the seats it contested Photo: AFP/GETTY
By Damien McElroy, Cairo 5:24PM BST 17
Apr 2011
The Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt's largest Islamic movement and the founder of Hamas, has set up a network of political parties around the country that eclipse the following of the middle class activists that overthrew the regime. On the extreme fringe of the Brotherhood, Islamic groups linked to al-Qeada are organising from the mosques to fill the vacuum left by the collapse of the dictatorship.
The military-led government already faces accusations that it is bowing to the surge in support for the Muslim movements, something that David Cameron warned of in February when he said Egyptian democracy would be strongly Islamic.
Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, warned on Sunday that the direction of Egyptian politics was anti-Israeli. He told diplomats last week that Egyptian officials – including Nabil al-Arabi, the foreign minister – were pandering to political militants by branding Israel as the "enemy".
"I am very concerned over some of the voices we've been hearing from Egypt recently," Mr Netanyahu said. "I'm especially concerned over the current Egyptian foreign minster's statements."
An Egyptian court on Saturday disbanded the National Democratic Party, which won 80 per cent of seats in parliament in December's rigged election. Hosni Mubarak, the ousted president, and his protégés are under arrest and threatened by prison.
Related Articles
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17 Apr 2011
Egypt: Mubarak could hang for protesters crackdown
15 Apr 2011
Mohammed Badie, the Muslim Brotherhood's spiritual leader, last week predicted the group's candidates would win 75 per cent of the seats it contested.
Fundamentalist factions have also emerged as parties. Gamaa al-Islamiya, an al-Qaeda linked group that promotes Salafist traditions has used its mosques as a political base for the first time since the 1970s.
A scare campaign that a No vote in last months referendum would eliminate Islamic law from the Egyptian constitution ensured a 77 per cent Yes result.
But the April 6th movement that spearheaded protests has no clear plan for party politics. Diplomats have warned the demonstrators are not well prepared for elections.
"The leadership of the protests was so focused on the street-by-street detail of the revolution, they have no clue what to do in a national election," said a US official involved in the demonstrations. "Now at dinner the protesters can tell me every Cairo street that was important in the revolution but not how they will take power in Egypt."
A clean-up campaign, including the laying of fresh grass on the roundabout, has transformed Tahrir Square, the focal point of protests. Last Friday was the first holiday since the outbreak of the uprising that was protest-free at the square. Only the daily gathering of hundreds to perform Islamic prayer ceremonies is a reminder of the protests that topped Mr Mubarak.
Mahsud Arishie, a teacher visiting the square, said Egypt would be a different country in the wake of the uprising. "Muslims have their own space now where there is no pressure from the government, only a direct connection to the Lord in the sky," he said as he made his way to the prayers. "That does not mean our country will be hostile to the West but it does mean we will do what we want."
Although the leading contenders for Egypts presidency are independents, many have begun wooing the Muslim blocs. Front-runner Amr Moussa, the Arab League president, has conceded that its inevitable that Islamic factions will be the bedrock of the political system.
As hardliners compete for street power, Egypt's Christians – who make up 10 per cent of the population – are emigrating in growing numbers.
Al-Masry al-Youm, an Egyptian newspaper, reported last week that the Canadian embassy had been swamped by visa requests from Coptic Christians.
Others are fighting back. Naquib Swiris, a Copt who is one of Egypt's richest men, has formed the Free Egyptians Party as a rallying point for a liberal democracy.
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grrrrrr Obama started a WAR in Libya,, grrrrr...is fault..
So.. how many Casualties?...
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grrrrrr Obama started a WAR in Libya,, grrrrr...is fault..
So.. how many Casualties?...
So invading another country is OK as long as US soldiers don't die?
The pro-Obama hypocrisy is really starting to hit ridiculous heights.
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grrrrrr Obama started a WAR in Libya,, grrrrr...is fault..
So.. how many Casualties?...
Hey Option Douche - you support obama paving the way for the MB in Egypt and Lybia?
Is your 95%er loyalty that strong that you side with the MB and radical islamists just to support obama?
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So invading another country is OK as long as US soldiers don't die?
The pro-Obama hypocrisy is really starting to hit ridiculous heights.
This while "Starting new wars shit"...just give me a fucking break already. After UN sanctions were enacted.. US acted in unison with the world community. Dont act like he went all george bush.. thats weak as fuck fam
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Mal - I take it yor comment was not referencing Afghanistan correct? You are aware of the rising casualities over there correct? Funny - the obamabots dont say shit on that. Under GWB we had a nightly death count on MSNBC, CNN, etc.
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This while "Starting new wars shit"...just give me a fucking break already. After UN sanctions were enacted.. US acted in unison with the world community. Dont act like he went all george bush.. thats weak as fuck fam
That's - right 3 nations on the arab League, powers, rice, and hillary now dictate obama's foreign policy now - not the congress.
::) ::)
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Hey Option Douche - you support obama paving the way for the MB in Egypt and Lybia?
Is your 95%er loyalty that strong that you side with the MB and radical islamists just to support obama?
Bitch you come at me with the racial shit one more time im gonna find your bitch ass and fuck you up.
Now i told your dumb ass i dont flow with the shit he did and if a reasonable person runs thats who im voting for. Now because i dont go on the Obama war path like your unstable irrational ass, im a supporter.. fuckin dumb bitch. you think because your retarded inconsistant ass posts all these dumb ass opinion pieces on obama that it some how equals proof...news flash matlock.. it dont.. fuckin 12 year old. "its true because there is a video on it.."are you fucking shittin me with this shit
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Bitch you come at me with the racial shit one more time im gonna find your bitch ass and fuck you up.
Now i told your dumb ass i dont flow with the shit he did and if a reasonable person runs thats who im voting for. Now because i dont go on the Obama war path like your unstable irrational ass, im a supporter.. fuckin dumb bitch. you think because your retarded inconsistant ass posts all these dumb ass opinion pieces on obama that it some how equals proof...news flash matlock.. it dont.. fuckin 12 year old. "its true because there is a video on it.."are you fucking shittin me with this shit
Fine - I'll chalk up your support of Obama on youthful ignorance and too much exposure to chemicals in the lab.
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first off i dont support him like you think.. and secondly.. im 28.. not a youth
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first off i dont support him like you think.. and secondly.. im 28.. not a youth
So its the chemicals then?
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This while "Starting new wars shit"...just give me a fucking break already. After UN sanctions were enacted.. US acted in unison with the world community. Dont act like he went all george bush.. thats weak as fuck fam
You know Bush had a bigger coalition of nations supporting Iraq than Obama did on Libya, right?
But you're right about comparing him to Bush here. In reality, his actions have been worse than Bush's. :-\
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As for Egypt, this country is headed for the shitter:
Egypt: Salafi Islamists Threaten to Kill Christian Governor
CAIRO (Reuters) — Muslims in southern Egypt protested for a third day on Sunday over the appointment of a Christian governor, saying his predecessor, also a Christian, had failed to solve their problems.
Thousands rallied outside the governor’s office in Qena and prevented employees from entering, blocked highways leading to the town and sat on a railway line into the province demanding that the appointment of Emad Mikhail be reversed.
Egypt’s interim military rulers, who took control when President Hosni Mubarak was ousted in a popular uprising, selected Mikhail last week as one of several new appointments to replace officials associated with his autocratic regime.
…The protest took a more aggressive turn as some radical Salafi Islamists in the crowd demanded a Muslim official, saying “we want it Islamic.”Some even threatened to kill Mikhail if he came to his office
http://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFJOE73G0CH20110417?sp=true
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Radical Islamist Groups Gaining Stranglehold in Egypt
(Telegraph) — The rapid spread of Muslim political parties ahead of September’s parliamentary elections has strengthened fears that Egyptian democracy will be dominated by radical Islamic movements.
The Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt’s largest Islamic movement and the founder of Hamas, has set up a network of political parties around the country that eclipse the following of the middle class activists that overthrew the regime. On the extreme fringe of the Brotherhood, Islamic groups linked to al-Qeada are organising from the mosques to fill the vacuum left by the collapse of the dictatorship.
The military-led government already faces accusations that it is bowing to the surge in support for the Muslim movements, something that David Cameron warned of in February when he said Egyptian democracy would be strongly Islamic.
Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, warned on Sunday that the direction of Egyptian politics was anti-Israeli. He told diplomats last week that Egyptian officials — including Nabil al-Arabi, the foreign minister — were pandering to political militants by branding Israel as the “enemy”.
“I am very concerned over some of the voices we’ve been hearing from Egypt recently,” Mr Netanyahu said. “I’m especially concerned over the current Egyptian foreign minster’s statements.”
Fundamentalist factions have also emerged as parties. Gamaa al-Islamiya, an al-Qaeda linked group that promotes Salafist traditions has used its mosques as a political base for the first time since the 1970s.
A scare campaign that a No vote in last months referendum would eliminate Islamic law from the Egyptian constitution ensured a 77 per cent Yes result.
But the April 6th movement that spearheaded protests has no clear plan for party politics. Diplomats have warned the demonstrators are not well prepared for elections.
“The leadership of the protests was so focused on the street-by-street detail of the revolution, they have no clue what to do in a national election,” said a US official involved in the demonstrations. “Now at dinner the protesters can tell me every Cairo street that was important in the revolution but not how they will take power in Egypt.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/8457030/Radial-Islamist-groups-gaining-stranglehold-in-Egypt.html
Good work, Obama!
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Egypt: Senior Muslim Brotherhood Leader Says They Want to Establish an Islamic State
EGYPT — Mahmoud Ezzat, the Muslim Brotherhood’s deputy Supreme Guide, said in a forum held in the Cairo district of Imbaba on Thursday that the group wants to establish an Islamic state after it achieves widespread popularity through its Freedom and Justice Party. Meanwhile, Brotherhood leader Saad al-Husseiny, said at the forum that the group aims to apply Islamic legislation and establish Islamic rule. His remarks rattled the leaders of several political parties, who said the statements, which were at odds with the concept of a civil state, would worry liberals.
The Coptic Orthodox Church decided to suspend its dialogue with the group after additional Brotherhood leaders said it was seeking to implement Islamic Sharia and declare Egypt an Islamic state, church sources said. The sources said the Brotherhood is trampling over the principles of equality and citizenship, and that its rhetoric changed after the 25 January revolution to adopt the language of the toppled regime.
Al-Masry Al-Youm has learned that as a result of the controversy, the church abandoned its intention to invite the group’s leaders to attend Easter celebrations.
Anba Bassanti, bishop of Helwan and Maasara, gave church head Pope Shenouda III the prerogative to respond and declined to comment on the Brotherhood leaders’ remarks.
Meanwhile, Abdel Maseeh Baseet, the pastor of the Church of Saint Marie in Mostorod, said he was unsurprised to hear the statements, which he believes represents the Brotherhood’s true intentions. “This way of thinking is rejected both locally and internationally. The world is not ready for a Taliban-style state,” he said.\
http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/node/403687
Wait a minute. Didn't the Obama regime, with the likes of intellectual juggernaut James Clapper, say that the Brotherhood was a largely secular organization? And didn't the Brotherhood claim they weren't interested in politics? Good job handing them the country, Obama! ::)
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See - this is where the malfeasance of Obama, and the accompanying silence of the left bothers me to no end. How can anyone defend this?
And by the way way - I have a seder to go to tonight I was invted to. If I hear one liberal jew defend obama I am going to unoad a whole can of hurt on them on this issue.
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See - this is where the malfeasance of Obama, and the accompanying silence of the left bothers me to no end. How can anyone defend this?
They'll just purge it from their memory like they always do.
People worth listening to called this from a mile away. Yet the Obama regime and his buddies on the left refused to listen.
Meanwhile, they stay dead silent on the massacres in Syria, a country whose populace is a lot more secular than Egypt's people are. ::)
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If I hear one liberal jew defend obama I am going to unoad a whole can of hurt on them on this issue.
Damn man. This just about borders on hate crime dude.
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Damn man. This just about borders on hate crime dude.
Ha ha ha ha - you don't know me in person. My friends refer to me as "No Filter" sometimes. I don't give a fuck. I call it like it is wherever I am.
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Egyptians Court U.S. Foes .Article Video Comments (38) more in Middle East ».
By MATT BRADLEY
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704004004576271130945207142.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsTop
WSJ's Matt Bradley reports Washington is feeling uneasy about Egypt reaching out to Iran in what Cairo calls resetting its diplomatic relationship.
.CAIRO—Iran and Egypt's new government signaled Monday they were moving quickly to thaw decades of frosty relations, worrying the U.S., Israel and Saudi Arabia that the overtures could upset the Mideast's fragile balance of power.Iran said it appointed an ambassador to Egypt for the first time since the two sides froze diplomatic relations more than three decades ago, the website of the Iranian government's official English-language channel, Press TV, reported late Monday.
Also Monday, officials at Egypt's Ministry of Foreign Affairs confirmed that new foreign minister Nabil Elaraby is considering a visit to the Gaza Strip—an area controlled by Hamas, a militant Palestinian Islamist group backed by Tehran and until now shunned by Cairo.
Agence France-Presse/Getty Images
Egyptian Foreign Minister Nabil Elaraby is weighing a visit to Gaza.
.The announcements follow a rare meeting earlier this month between a high-level Iranian diplomat and Mr. Elaraby, after which the foreign minister told reporters that Egypt has "opened a new page" with Iran.
American officials said they are concerned that Egypt's apparent determination to re-establish relations with Iran is part of a broader reordering of its foreign policy. They worry that such a turn could empower Iran and its regional clients Hamas in the Gaza Strip and Hezbollah in Lebanon, both of which are labeled terrorist groups by the U.S.
Egypt's outreach has also extended to Syria, a close ally of Iran. In early March, Egypt's new intelligence chief, Murad Muwafi, chose Syria for his first foreign trip. It remains unclear what was discussed at the meeting, previously reported by The Wall Street Journal.
For decades, Egypt was a vital player in a Middle East balance of power: With its large population, U.S.-financed military and diplomatic ties with Israel, it was a counterweight against Israel's foes, primarily Iran and Syria. But as Iran's power in the region has grown and the Middle East has become more defined by political Islam, Egypt's reliably anti-Iranian stance cost it significant diplomatic capital. With Cairo unable to engage Tehran, it lost its position as one of the region's chief diplomatic brokers, eclipsed by Qatar, Syria and Saudi Arabia.
Egyptian officials and several foreign-policy analysts say the new diplomacy isn't so much an expression of affinity with Iran as it is a broader effort to reclaim lost diplomatic prestige. Egypt's new government presents the policy shift as part of a general diplomatic reopening, rather than a reordering, of its regional relationships.
"Egypt's role cannot be underestimated. But that role over the last few decades, I think 30 years or so, has diminished," said Menha Bakhoum, spokeswoman for Egypt's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. "If there's anything happening now, I think that will be regaining that position that we've had for years and years and years."
Western reactions to Egypt's entreaties to Iran were exaggerated, Ms. Bakhoum said Monday.
Later, Iran's Press TV reported Ali Akbar Sibouyeh, a career diplomat, was appointed ambassador following negotiations between Mr. Elaraby and Iranian Foreign Minister Ali Akar Salehi. An Iranian official at the United Nations couldn't immediately confirm the report.
Concerns over Iran's regional influence flared anew Monday. The Gulf Cooperation Council, a grouping that includes Saudi Arabia and Qatar, asked the United Nations Security Council to stop what it calls "flagrant Iranian interference" in Bahrain and other GCC countries. Saudi Arabia and Bahrain have accused Shiite Iran of aiding Bahrain's predominantly Shiite anti-government protesters.
Iran's foreign ministry spokesman said the criticism was surprising "while the military forces of some members of the council have…cracked down on defenseless men and women."
Iran's post-revolutionary Islamist government cut diplomatic ties with Egypt in 1980 when Egypt became the first Arab country to grant diplomatic recognition to Israel. In the decades after Hosni Mubarak assumed office in 1981, he treated Tehran with deep suspicion because of its support for Hamas, a Palestinian Islamist militant group with ties to Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood, Mr. Mubarak's most powerful political opponents.
Concerns about Iran as a destabilizing force haven't necessarily evaporated since the fall of Mr. Mubarak, who was ousted by countrywide protests in February. "I know from some Egyptians in the government that they still have security concerns about what Iran is doing in the region," said a Western diplomat.
Throughout Mr. Mubarak's rule, Egypt maintained high-level diplomacy with Iran that stopped just short of normal relations. The Egyptian ministry of foreign affairs maintained an "Interests Section" in Tehran and an ambassador who worked out of Dubai, said Ms. Bakhoum.
The change in tone toward Iran is incremental, said Ms. Bakhoum. But it could have implications for another of Mr. Elaraby's stated foreign policy priorities—resolving the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians.
Helping to resolve that conflict was one of the Mubarak regime's most significant foreign policy goals; failing to do so contributed to Egypt's moribund diplomatic stature, analysts say.
Engaging Iran may help Egypt proceed with negotiations with Hamas, which has governed the Gaza Strip under an Israeli blockade since the group seized power from the more moderate Fatah in 2007. Any headway toward resolving the seemingly intractable Middle East conflict would be hugely popular among Egyptians, said Mohammed Abdel Salam, an expert on Iran at the government-financed Al Ahram Center for Political Strategic Studies, a Cairo think tank.
Amr Moussa, the former Secretary General of the Arab league, owes his front-runner status in Egyptian presidential elections later this year to his forceful statements against Israel when he was Egypt's foreign minister during the 1990s. Islamist groups in particular have been empowered by Egypt's abrupt shift to democracy, and analysts expect that Egypt's next government will have to answer to growing calls that it break with U.S. foreign-policy objectives.
Some Islamist political voices within Egypt have already begun their own sort of diplomacy. Magdi Hussein, the chairman of the Islamist Al Amal (Labor) Party, met with Iranian foreign minister Ali Akbar Salehi earlier this week in Tehran. Both sides encouraged a quickening of the diplomatic thaw between the two countries.
Egypt appears to be following a foreign relations pattern set by Turkey in the past decade—a strong American ally whose foreign policy has nevertheless decoupled from American interests. Regardless of its final position on Iran, the country is likely to be significantly less beholden to U.S. interests, American officials said, if only because Egypt was such a reliable ally under Mr. Mubarak.
"It's hard to imagine a change that would improve on what we had" with the previous Egyptian regime, one U.S. official said.
But the officials caution that they haven't yet seen any indications of a radical shift away from the U.S. by Egypt, or moves toward a markedly closer relationship with Iran. The Egyptian military remains pro-American, U.S. officials say, and they expect Egypt's generals to provide a moderating influence.
"Opening an embassy isn't saying 'we want to be allies' or anything like that," the official said.
Another official said the U.S. expects "more noise" from Egypt, especially when it comes to Israel. The official also said the U.S. is probably going to have less influence over Egypt, and thus less influence in the region at a crucial time.
But the broad thrust of the Egypt's relationship with the U.S. and Egypt's foreign policy in general is expected to remain "more or less the same," the official said.
Also anchoring Egypt firmly in the pro-West camp is the military's close relationship with Saudi Arabia, which remains firm, the official said. But the Saudis are also looking warily at the political changes unfolding in Egypt, unsure whether they will be able to count as much upon the emerging government there as they could with Mr. Mubarak as a check against Iran's expansionist goals in the region.
Riyadh wasn't happy with the passage of an Iranian warship through the Suez Canal earlier this year. The move appears to be part of an Iranian strategy to expand its military presence around the Middle East, even as sectarian tensions rise.
Saudi Arabia's foreign ministry spokesman declined to comment on the developments, which he said were the sovereign affairs of foreign states.
—Matthew Rosenberg, Joe Lauria and Margaret Coker contributed to this article.
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Ha ha ha ha - you don't know me in person. My friends refer to me as "No Filter" sometimes. I don't give a fuck. I call it like it is wherever I am.
except when there are actually blacks and Jews around :D
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except when there are actually blacks and Jews around :D
Wrong - I will call a spade a spade whenever the situation fits.
I was asked about obama last night and mentioned his passover message and no one even dared say shit back to me. I ask liberal jews what they hated abut bush and then list the same shit their messiah is doing and they have nothing to say but act like ostriches.
Blacks? The only thing I usually say - "sorry to dissapoint you, but if you think Obama is anything but a too bit hack politician, try getting in to one of his fundraisers." Case closed.
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Wrong - I will call a spade a spade whenever the situation fits.
I was asked about obama last night and mentioned his passover message and no one even dared say shit back to me. I ask liberal jews what they hated abut bush and then list the same shit their messiah is doing and they have nothing to say but act like ostriches.
Blacks? The only thing I usually say - "sorry to dissapoint you, but if you think Obama is anything but a too bit hack politician, try getting in to one of his fundraisers." Case closed.
and you did this in which nursing home>???
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and you did this in which nursing home>???
Was at my GF's house.
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Was at my GF's house.
and she lives in a nursing home, correct?
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and she lives in a nursing home, correct?
Yeah. How did you guess?
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Yeah. How did you guess?
easy..she has to be senile to be with you and listen to your rantings..probably never responds or debates you..which is what you like
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easy..she has to be senile to be with you and listen to your rantings..probably never responds or debates you..which is what you like
She hates and loathes obama as well.
Obama appeals to the following:
1. 95% of blacks
2. 85% of liberal jews
3. Government union employees
4. Enviro/LGBT/Feminist groups
5. Anti-American communists/progressives/islamists
6. College professors and college sophmores and juniors
7. Illegal aliens
8. 65% hispanics
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She hates and loathes obama as well.
Obama appeals to the following:
1. 95% of blacks
2. 85% of liberal jews
3. Government union employees
4. Enviro/LGBT/Feminist groups
5. Anti-American communists/progressives/islamists
6. College professors and college sophmores and juniors
7. Illegal aliens
8. 65% hispanics
As opposed to the Republican and Tea Party Coalition of:
100% of Nazis
100% of the Ku Klux Klan
100% of conservatives (who can't think for themselves and secretly hate blacks and the government)
100% of Birthers (who are crazy anyway)
100% of militiamen (who are all white, unemployed, and didn't finish high school)
75% of older whites (who think they want spending cuts until they find out that their Medicare and social security will be cut as well)
5% of blacks (who are dupes)
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What group do you put me in on that list?
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As opposed to the Republican and Tea Party Coalition of:
100% of Nazis
100% of the Ku Klux Klan
100% of conservatives (who can't think for themselves and secretly hate blacks and the government)
100% of Birthers (who are crazy anyway)
100% of militiamen (who are all white, unemployed, and didn't finish high school)
75% of older whites (who think they want spending cuts until they find out that their Medicare and social security will be cut as well)
5% of blacks (who are dupes)
Apparently you've never been to a TEA party gathering
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I wish there was a militia near me to join. Clean up the rabble, animals, savages, vermin, scum, parasites, leeches, and insects destroying the joint.
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What group do you put me in on that list?
Thats an awesome question 3333....I think you have secret membership in the Klan, but they aren't really a dominant or visible force in NYC...and I think you visit a Nazi website or two in your spare time..but basically you fall into the Birther and older white person category....you want drastic spending cuts but when you see that as your retirement comes nearer and nearer your own social security and Medicare will be affected. you will begin to vote Democratic in no time flat!!! :D
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Thats an awesome question 3333....I think you have secret membership in the Klan, but they aren't really a dominant or visible force in NYC...and I think you visit a Nazi website or two in your spare time..but basically you fall into the Birther and older white person category....you want drastic spending cuts but when you see that as your retirement comes nearer and nearer your own social security and Medicare will be affected. you will begin to vote Democratic in no time flat!!! :D
I'm 35 y/o, Italo American, live in Woodlawn section of the Bronx. I am a birther, hate nazis/communists and yes, want drastic cuts.
I also want to go a few miles down the road and open the cages at the Bronx Zoo and let the animals out ad put the ghetto vermin in said cages until they learn how to behave themselves.
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I wish there was a militia near me to join. Clean up the rabble, animals, savages, vermin, scum, parasites, leeches, and insects destroying the joint.
translation: I wish there was a militia near me to join. I would kill all the rabble (illegal aliens), savages (blacks), vermin (Hispanics), scum (drug dealers and drug users), parasites (Jews), Leeches (Chinese, Koreans, Pakistanis and Indians who come here seeking a better way of life), and insects (whites who do not think like me)... ;D
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I'm 35 y/o, Italo American, live in Woodlawn section of the Bronx. I am a birther, hate nazis/communists and yes, want drastic cuts.
I also want to go a few miles down the road and open the cages at the Bronx Zoo and let the animals out ad put the ghetto vermin in said cages until they learn how to behave themselves.
Woodlawn is still relatively nice.....what are its boundaries east west north and south?
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translation: I wish there was a militia near me to join. I would kill all the rabble (illegal aliens), savages (blacks), vermin (Hispanics), scum (drug dealers and drug users), parasites (Jews), Leeches (Chinese, Koreans, Pakistanis and Indians who come here seeking a better way of life), and insects (whites who do not think like me)... ;D
I like asians. They bust their asses, dont complain, work hard, are nice when I come in to their stores, etc.
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I like asians. They bust their asses, dont complain, work hard, are nice when I come in to their stores, etc.
wait until they start demanding a bigger slice of the pie and become more outspoken and political.....your attitude will change QUICK because you'll feel threatened :)
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Woodlawn is still relatively nice.....what are its boundaries east west north and south?
A lot of the irish went home when the construction industry collapsed and now we have the trash from wakefield to deal with.
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Egyptians Court U.S. Foes .Article Video Comments (38) more in Middle East ».
By MATT BRADLEY
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704004004576271130945207142.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsTop
WSJ's Matt Bradley reports Washington is feeling uneasy about Egypt reaching out to Iran in what Cairo calls resetting its diplomatic relationship.
.CAIRO—Iran and Egypt's new government signaled Monday they were moving quickly to thaw decades of frosty relations, worrying the U.S., Israel and Saudi Arabia that the overtures could upset the Mideast's fragile balance of power.Iran said it appointed an ambassador to Egypt for the first time since the two sides froze diplomatic relations more than three decades ago, the website of the Iranian government's official English-language channel, Press TV, reported late Monday.
Also Monday, officials at Egypt's Ministry of Foreign Affairs confirmed that new foreign minister Nabil Elaraby is considering a visit to the Gaza Strip—an area controlled by Hamas, a militant Palestinian Islamist group backed by Tehran and until now shunned by Cairo.
Agence France-Presse/Getty Images
Egyptian Foreign Minister Nabil Elaraby is weighing a visit to Gaza.
.The announcements follow a rare meeting earlier this month between a high-level Iranian diplomat and Mr. Elaraby, after which the foreign minister told reporters that Egypt has "opened a new page" with Iran.
American officials said they are concerned that Egypt's apparent determination to re-establish relations with Iran is part of a broader reordering of its foreign policy. They worry that such a turn could empower Iran and its regional clients Hamas in the Gaza Strip and Hezbollah in Lebanon, both of which are labeled terrorist groups by the U.S.
Egypt's outreach has also extended to Syria, a close ally of Iran. In early March, Egypt's new intelligence chief, Murad Muwafi, chose Syria for his first foreign trip. It remains unclear what was discussed at the meeting, previously reported by The Wall Street Journal.
For decades, Egypt was a vital player in a Middle East balance of power: With its large population, U.S.-financed military and diplomatic ties with Israel, it was a counterweight against Israel's foes, primarily Iran and Syria. But as Iran's power in the region has grown and the Middle East has become more defined by political Islam, Egypt's reliably anti-Iranian stance cost it significant diplomatic capital. With Cairo unable to engage Tehran, it lost its position as one of the region's chief diplomatic brokers, eclipsed by Qatar, Syria and Saudi Arabia.
Egyptian officials and several foreign-policy analysts say the new diplomacy isn't so much an expression of affinity with Iran as it is a broader effort to reclaim lost diplomatic prestige. Egypt's new government presents the policy shift as part of a general diplomatic reopening, rather than a reordering, of its regional relationships.
"Egypt's role cannot be underestimated. But that role over the last few decades, I think 30 years or so, has diminished," said Menha Bakhoum, spokeswoman for Egypt's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. "If there's anything happening now, I think that will be regaining that position that we've had for years and years and years."
Western reactions to Egypt's entreaties to Iran were exaggerated, Ms. Bakhoum said Monday.
Later, Iran's Press TV reported Ali Akbar Sibouyeh, a career diplomat, was appointed ambassador following negotiations between Mr. Elaraby and Iranian Foreign Minister Ali Akar Salehi. An Iranian official at the United Nations couldn't immediately confirm the report.
Concerns over Iran's regional influence flared anew Monday. The Gulf Cooperation Council, a grouping that includes Saudi Arabia and Qatar, asked the United Nations Security Council to stop what it calls "flagrant Iranian interference" in Bahrain and other GCC countries. Saudi Arabia and Bahrain have accused Shiite Iran of aiding Bahrain's predominantly Shiite anti-government protesters.
Iran's foreign ministry spokesman said the criticism was surprising "while the military forces of some members of the council have…cracked down on defenseless men and women."
Iran's post-revolutionary Islamist government cut diplomatic ties with Egypt in 1980 when Egypt became the first Arab country to grant diplomatic recognition to Israel. In the decades after Hosni Mubarak assumed office in 1981, he treated Tehran with deep suspicion because of its support for Hamas, a Palestinian Islamist militant group with ties to Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood, Mr. Mubarak's most powerful political opponents.
Concerns about Iran as a destabilizing force haven't necessarily evaporated since the fall of Mr. Mubarak, who was ousted by countrywide protests in February. "I know from some Egyptians in the government that they still have security concerns about what Iran is doing in the region," said a Western diplomat.
Throughout Mr. Mubarak's rule, Egypt maintained high-level diplomacy with Iran that stopped just short of normal relations. The Egyptian ministry of foreign affairs maintained an "Interests Section" in Tehran and an ambassador who worked out of Dubai, said Ms. Bakhoum.
The change in tone toward Iran is incremental, said Ms. Bakhoum. But it could have implications for another of Mr. Elaraby's stated foreign policy priorities—resolving the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians.
Helping to resolve that conflict was one of the Mubarak regime's most significant foreign policy goals; failing to do so contributed to Egypt's moribund diplomatic stature, analysts say.
Engaging Iran may help Egypt proceed with negotiations with Hamas, which has governed the Gaza Strip under an Israeli blockade since the group seized power from the more moderate Fatah in 2007. Any headway toward resolving the seemingly intractable Middle East conflict would be hugely popular among Egyptians, said Mohammed Abdel Salam, an expert on Iran at the government-financed Al Ahram Center for Political Strategic Studies, a Cairo think tank.
Amr Moussa, the former Secretary General of the Arab league, owes his front-runner status in Egyptian presidential elections later this year to his forceful statements against Israel when he was Egypt's foreign minister during the 1990s. Islamist groups in particular have been empowered by Egypt's abrupt shift to democracy, and analysts expect that Egypt's next government will have to answer to growing calls that it break with U.S. foreign-policy objectives.
Some Islamist political voices within Egypt have already begun their own sort of diplomacy. Magdi Hussein, the chairman of the Islamist Al Amal (Labor) Party, met with Iranian foreign minister Ali Akbar Salehi earlier this week in Tehran. Both sides encouraged a quickening of the diplomatic thaw between the two countries.
Egypt appears to be following a foreign relations pattern set by Turkey in the past decade—a strong American ally whose foreign policy has nevertheless decoupled from American interests. Regardless of its final position on Iran, the country is likely to be significantly less beholden to U.S. interests, American officials said, if only because Egypt was such a reliable ally under Mr. Mubarak.
"It's hard to imagine a change that would improve on what we had" with the previous Egyptian regime, one U.S. official said.
But the officials caution that they haven't yet seen any indications of a radical shift away from the U.S. by Egypt, or moves toward a markedly closer relationship with Iran. The Egyptian military remains pro-American, U.S. officials say, and they expect Egypt's generals to provide a moderating influence.
"Opening an embassy isn't saying 'we want to be allies' or anything like that," the official said.
Another official said the U.S. expects "more noise" from Egypt, especially when it comes to Israel. The official also said the U.S. is probably going to have less influence over Egypt, and thus less influence in the region at a crucial time.
But the broad thrust of the Egypt's relationship with the U.S. and Egypt's foreign policy in general is expected to remain "more or less the same," the official said.
Also anchoring Egypt firmly in the pro-West camp is the military's close relationship with Saudi Arabia, which remains firm, the official said. But the Saudis are also looking warily at the political changes unfolding in Egypt, unsure whether they will be able to count as much upon the emerging government there as they could with Mr. Mubarak as a check against Iran's expansionist goals in the region.
Riyadh wasn't happy with the passage of an Iranian warship through the Suez Canal earlier this year. The move appears to be part of an Iranian strategy to expand its military presence around the Middle East, even as sectarian tensions rise.
Saudi Arabia's foreign ministry spokesman declined to comment on the developments, which he said were the sovereign affairs of foreign states.
—Matthew Rosenberg, Joe Lauria and Margaret Coker contributed to this article.
I didn't read this article, but I didn't need to. Once I saw that pic at the end I knew it was legit.
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I didn't read this article, but I didn't need to. Once I saw that pic at the end I knew it was legit.
The WSJ is 10000x more credible than you are. :)
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A lot of the irish went home when the construction industry collapsed and now we have the trash from wakefield to deal with.
by the way for those of you who don't live in the Bronx...
Translation...."trash" means black people
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Awakening to Obama's 'Hosni' hell
By MICHAEL GOODWIN
Last Updated: 2:07 AM, April 20, 2011
First, the bad news. If you're keeping score at home, another day passed with more slaughter of demonstrators in the streets of Syria without serious objection from the White House. The stalemate in Libya remained a stalemate and Jordan can't get a handle on a new wave of protesters.
Now, for the really bad news.
There are increasing signs that the "Arab Awakening" is a gift to Iran and its terrorist franchises. In Bahrain and especially Yemen, anti-American and anti-Western forces are filling the gaps as government control shrinks.
And now for the worst news.
The most dangerous developments are happening in Egypt, which was a bulwark for 30 years against Iranian expansion and Arab Islamic fundamentalists. But the risky departure of Hosni Mubarak, under American pressure, threw the door wide open to both and the results already are disturbing.
Many people saw this coming -- but apparently, they did not include a single soul in the White House.
Even though leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood were talking about getting Egyptians ready for "war with Israel" in January and sabotaging a natural-gas pipeline between the countries, President Obama still decided that Mubarak had to go even before a succession was clear. Saudi Arabia, among others, saw the push against Mubarak as a betrayal of an American ally and an invitation for Islamists to make a move.
They were right, and it didn't take long for proof to emerge. Published reports around the world say Iran and Egypt are on the cusp of establishing diplomatic relations and exchanging ambassadors. The London Telegraph quotes a spokesperson for the Egyptian foreign minister as saying, "The former regime used to see Iran as an enemy, but we don't."
The paper also reports that the Egyptian leader of the Islamist Labour Party, who was imprisoned under Mubarak, has been released. He is running for president and, in Tehran to meet the Iranian foreign leader, declared that the revolt against Mubarak was "inspired by the Islamic revolution" in Iran.
Meanwhile, the Egyptian foreign minister, in another sharp break with the past, said he might visit Hamas leaders in Gaza.
Egypt is the largest and most important Arab country to both the United States and Israel, and its decision to move closer to Iran is a potential disaster that can only be read as a lack of confidence in American leadership. For the same reasons, a miffed Saudi Arabia is trying to improve relations with Russia and China.
About all this, American officials are said to be "worried." Well, that's rich -- and very late.
After initially floundering in its responses to the Arab upheavals, the White House decided to formulate a single policy of backing the protesters, even when, like Mubarak, their targets were our allies.
When that backfired, the White House opted for common sense -- one nation at a time. It realized that one size did not fit all and that it had to take a more strategic view of American interests.
Or at least it seemed to. More lately, Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton seemed to have made another decision: not to have any policy at all. So while the nasty thugs in Syria shoot down protesters, we pass up a chance to help possibly bring regime change to a true adversary. We wade into Libya without a real plan and we seem to have no answer at all for Yemen, Bahrain and Jordan.
All of which benefits Iran, which counts Syria as it most reliable ally and conduit for its terrorists and weapons. Meanwhile, the mad mullahs continue their march toward the bomb.
The good news in all this? There isn't any.
We need broader tix 'fix'!
Most New Yorkers who read the stories about police officers allegedly fixing parking tickets for friends and family will react with three words: "I knew it." And they'll be right.
They'll be right not because they knew anything about the backroom scam where tickets disappear, a scam that reportedly involves hundreds of cops.
No, New Yorkers know that something is wrong with the parking-violation system because they can see it with their own eyes. All they have to do is be on a street with "No Parking" signs and see scores of private cars parked all day without fear of getting an orange envelope on the windshield.
The immunity comes from dashboard placards courtesy of the city or unions representing firefighters, cops and others with "connections." There are few legal exceptions for the union placards, but unwritten rules mean enforcement agents don't dare ticket those cars.
Ordinary New Yorkers see the same thing when they go to a courthouse and watch as private cars park all day in "No Parking" zones, in front of fire hydrants and schools. Some will be double-parked, and all will have "court officer" placards on the dashboard.
You're a juror doing your civic duty -- you get a ticket. You're a court officer or other wired worker -- your parking is free.
So let's put the ticket-fixing scam in context. The vast majority of cops are honest and the vast majority of people who get parking and moving-violation tickets deserve them.
But it is also a glaring fact that parking rules are not consistently enforced. And that open double standard corrodes trust in the entire system.
By all means, prosecutors should get to the bottom of the fixing scandal. But City Hall needs to set one standard for parking rules and make sure it is enforced.
If it wants to provide parking for employees, it should do it upfront and clearly. Until then, cynicism is in order.
PULITZER SURPRISE
It's dangerous to read too much political meaning into a single event, but the Pulitzer Prize awarded to Joseph Rago for editorial writing could be the exception. Rago, you see, writes for The Wall Street Journal, and his unsigned pieces were devastating critiques of ObamaCare.
At a time when too many journalistic watchdogs turned into lap dogs for President Obama's health-care takeover, Rago patiently deconstructed the sweeping law and diligently tracked how early results matched promises. In a typical passage, he concluded that "ObamaCare was sold using the language of choice and competition, but it is actually reducing both."
He correctly predicted that the mandate for individuals to purchase insurance would face serious constitutional challenges, and called threats to exclude insurers from government exchanges if they raised prices "political thuggery."
The surprise is not that Rago, whom I've never met, even though The Post and Journal are corporate siblings, won the top prize. It's that he won precisely because of what the Pulitzer board called his "well-crafted, against-the-grain editorials challenging the health-care reform advocated by President Obama."
Against-the-grain they were, if the grain is measured by the leftist tilt of most major news organizations. Bully for the Pulitzer judges who recognized that, in this case at least, the best journalism moved in the other direction.
Amazin' nickname
A friend sends along a new nickname for the Mets: The Wilponzis. Works for me!
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I believe anything in the New York Post or the bible.
Please copy and paste more.
Thanks.
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I believe anything in the New York Post or the bible.
Please copy and paste more.
Thanks.
Michael Goodwin is a great columnist and typically a dem on most issues.
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Apr 26, 7:04 AM EDT
Poll: Most Egyptians want Quran as source of laws
By HAMZA HENDAWI
Associated Press
Poll: Most Egyptians want Quran as source of laws
CAIRO (AP) -- A majority of Egyptians believe laws in their country should observe the teachings of Islam's holy book, the Quran, according to the results of an opinion poll by a U.S.-based research center.
The results also show that Egyptians, who have shifted toward religious conservatism over the past 40 or so years, are open to the inclusion of religious parties in future governments. Only a minority, however, sympathize with fundamentalist religious parties, according to the results.
Overall, the results of the poll paint a picture of Egyptians as a people who prefer religious moderation over extremism and prize democratic values even if they come at the risk of some political instability.
The poll results were released late Monday and come five months ahead of legislative elections, the first since the February ouster of longtime authoritarian leader Hosni Mubarak.
Islamic parties are expected to make a significant showing in the crucial vote, with 50 percent of people saying it was "very important" for religious parties to be part of a future government and as much 37 percent have a "very favorable" view of the Muslim Brotherhood, the country's largest and best organized Islamic group.
Another 62 percent of Egyptians believe laws in their country should strictly follow the teachings of the Quran, though 27 percent thought it was enough that the laws reflect Islam's general values and principles.
The poll, based on interviews with 1,000 Egyptians, was conducted by the Pew Research Center between March 24 and April 7. Its margin of error was plus or minus 4 percent.
Its results gauge the mood in Egypt at a time when the country's future is wide open after an end to 29 years of rule by Mubarak - a period defined for many by political suppression, corruption and wide socio-economic disparities.
Mubarak's departure in the face of a popular, 18-day uprising will now give Egyptians unprecedented freedom to choose their future government as well as give new opportunities to political and social forces that have long been kept under wraps.
Islamic groups long suppressed under Mubarak are now free to operate publicly and plan to contest the September vote, including some advocating a militant interpretation of Islam's teachings and the creation of a state run by Islamic law.
In a result that doesn't bode well for the country's lingering sectarian issues, the poll showed that only 36 percent of those questioned believe it is "very important" for Christians and other minorities to freely practice their religions, suggesting the influence of these militant groups, who have incited hatred of the country's 10 percent Christian minority.
Post-Mubarak Egypt also suffers from a security vacuum that has led to a dramatic surge in crime. Economic problems are also deepening and the country has had to borrow from the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank to balance its books since the political upheavals of the past three months have disrupted productivity, scared away tourists and hit exports.
The poll results also showed that more than half of all Egyptians would like to see the 1979 peace agreement with Israel annulled, highlighting the deep unpopularity of the treaty, which is central to U.S. policy in the region and was scrupulously adhered to by Mubarak.
More than anything else, however, the youth-led pro-democracy movement, which reworked the political environment, dramatically improved people's attitudes. The polls show a major rise in optimism and changing of national priorities.
In 2007, Egyptian were evenly split over which was more important, a strong leader or democracy, but in the recent poll, 64 percent rated democracy higher.
Of those whose names have been put forward as possible candidates for the presidential elections late this year, former Arab League head Amr Moussa was the most popular, with 89 percent giving him a very or somewhat favorable rating.
Former presidential candidate Ayman Nour trailed with a 70 percent rating while Nobel Prize Laureate and reform leader Mohamed ElBaradei only had 57 percent rating.
The United States, Egypt's strongest foreign backer since the mid-1970s, continued to garner low approval ratings, with only 20 percent of Egyptians seeing it in a positive light, up from 17 percent in 2010.
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Riyadh Freezes Huge US Arms Deal; US special forces and CIA operations suspended in Yemen
04/11/2011
David Virgil Dafinoiu
http://securityandintelligence.wordpress.com/2011/04/11/riyadh-freezes-huge-us-arms-deal-us-special-forces-and-cia-operations-suspended-in-yemen
The sixty-year old US-Saudi alliance has had its ups and downs but the differences were never allowed to sink to the icy level which marks them today and is seriously hurting America’s strategic standing in the Arabian Peninsula and Persian Gulf.
By the time Defense Secretary Robert Gates arrived in Riyadh Wednesday, April 6, things had gone too far for his rescue mission to have any chance of success. His conversation with King Abdullah got exactly nowhere.
Gates hurried over to Riyadh after a secret Saudi message was received in Washington announcing a freeze on arms purchases from the United States, a first in Saudi-US military relations. The message explained that Riyadh needed spare funds to finance military operations against Iran in view of the deteriorating security situation. It hinted at the high cost of deploying Saudi troops in Bahrain and buttressing the oil kingdom’s border with Yemen in view of escalating civil warfare and Yemen President Abdullah Ali Saleh‘s uphill battle against his opposition.
Underlying the words was a hint that Riyadh intended to go shopping for cheaper weapons systems outside the United States, which was unheard of until now. New ground was also broken by Riyadh’s explanation that it needs to address the military and nuclear threat coming from Iran. For decades, America was accepted without question by all parts of the Gulf region as their as trusty security shield.
First Saudi arms shopping expedition ever outside the US
The blow to American pockets as well as its prestige is disastrous: Saudi Arabia is the top buyer of American military hardware. It committed last year to a package, including F-15 fighter jets and a range of helicopters, worth $60 billion, the largest America’s military industry has ever landed.
Shortly before Gates landed in Riyadh, US officials briefing the press traveling on his plane assured them he would bring “good news” from Riyadh on the arms deal. But other officials admitted that the Saudi Arabian monarchy was “so unhappy with the Obama administration for the way it pushed out President Mubarak of Egypt” that it had sent senior officials to the People’s Republic of China and Russia in search of expanded business and defense procurement opportunities.
The conversation between the Saudi King and US defense secretary ranged over four main subjects: Iran, Bahrain, Yemen and the Saudi-US arms transaction.
On Iran, Riyadh and Washington were wider apart than ever before, their differences on the handling of Iran’s expansionist thrust and nuclear program exacerbated by the latest Arab turmoil.
In a blistering denunciation, the king told Gates he found it hard to excuse the Obama administration’s obdurate disregard of Saudi intelligence updates to the CIA on the complicity of Tehran and Hizballah in destabilizing Lebanon and Bahrain.
Bushehr – a ticking Fukushima on Saudi Arabia’s doorstep
Even less excusable in the Saudi view was Washington’s refusal to take seriously the testimony offered after Saudi troops entered Manama to defend the Bahraini throne that Iran was stepping up its preparations for military intervention after fomenting riots among the 2 million Shiites living in the eastern Saudi oil regions.
The Saudi ruler had concluded that no matter what evidence was put before President Barack Obama, he would never be deflected from his policy of engagement with Tehran.
Abdullah warned that American indulgence of Iran’s nuclear aspirations was placing the very survival of Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf states in grave jeopardy.
The king had a particular bone to pick over the Iranian nuclear reactor at Bushehr, our sources disclose. Despite all of our warnings, Abdullah told Gates, you tried to persuade us (in August 2010) that Iran’s first reactor would be harmless. And what do we see today if not a potential Fukushima on our doorstep? Even Tehran is scared to activate it after witnessing the Japanese nuclear calamity, realizing that if it explodes, millions of Iranians will die.
So how are we supposed to feel now about the Iranian reactor and US assurances?
Abdullah was harshly critical of the US presidential advisers’ counsel to the White House to withhold endorsement from Saudi military intervention in Bahrain.
As long as Washington hopes to topple the Bahraini and Saudi kingdoms by promoting pro-democracy revolutions on the Egyptian pattern, why would you expect the Persian Gulf rulers to support America and treat it as an ally? he asked the US defense secretary.
Abdullah tells Saleh to turn his back on Washington and hold tight
King Abdullah explained that once he had realized the Obama administration had no intention of acting in consideration of the security interests of the Saudi and Gulf nations, he resolved to take their affairs into his own hands. He said he now feels free to do what he thinks necessary to advance those interests without resorting to – or even consulting with – Washington.
Gates confirmed that the US did have “evidence” of Iranian meddling in the turmoil besetting Bahrain and other Middle Eastern countries, refuting the Obama administration’s public statements denying Iran was a primary factor. But this admission most probably came too late. Abdullah has set his course on a new policy that distances the kingdom from the United States. Even though Gates disagrees with Obama on the Middle East – and especially on military intervention in Libya – the Saudi monarch knows that his time is almost up at the Pentagon.
According to USSO Gulf sources, Riyadh has in the past 10 days struck out against the United States by launching an independent course in Yemen.
Last week, the Obama administration reversed its policy of support for President Abdullah Ali Saleh and told him it was time to negotiate terms for his departure with the opposition.
The Saudis stepped in thereupon and told Saleh to ignore Washington and hold tight because from now on, he could count on Saudi-led GCC backing taking the place of the United States.
This was Riyadh’s first public demonstration of the new policy as exercised in the Arabian Peninsula. It was followed, according to our exclusive counter-terror sources, by intensive consultations between the Yemeni president and Saudi intelligence chiefs who visited the palace in Sanaa, and at least two top-level conversations between King Abdullah and the Yemeni president.
US special forces and CIA operations suspended in Yemen
The upshot was dramatic and never until now revealed.
Late last week, a communication from President Saleh reached Washington announcing the suspension of US special forces’ operations at their secret base near the port city of Hodeida and the hold-up of covert CIA activity against Al Qaeda in Yemen.
In other words, American forces are banned from using Yemeni soil or its Red Sea waters as bases for striking Al Qaeda terrorists in Arabia.
This is the first time that fallout from Arab Revolt – called by some the Arab Spring – has impaired America’s war on Al Qaeda. It has increased the danger that terrorists hiding in Yemen, the most notorious of whom is the Muslim cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, who is connected to at least three terrorist attacks, including the Fort Hood shooting, will be free to resume their attacks in the United States.
That is just one of the side-effects of Saudi King Abdullah’s new policy.
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The Saudi ruler had concluded that no matter what evidence was put before President Barack Obama, he would never be deflected from his policy of engagement with Tehran.
Abdullah warned that American indulgence of Iran’s nuclear aspirations was placing the very survival of Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf states in grave jeopardy.
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No freaking kidding! Its the same shit on every issue with this freak show admn. No matter how much evidence it put forth to obama he keeps on with his WTF agenda.
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I believe anything in the New York Post or the bible.
Please copy and paste more.
Thanks.
if you believe anything written in the post you have severe credibility problems
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if you believe anything written in the post you have severe credibility problems
dont you believe the health care bill will lower premiums?
LMFAO
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The Wrath of Abbas
Fed up with the stalled peace talks, the Palestinian leader defies Israel and vents about Obama.
Paolo Verzone / Agence VU for Newsweek
Portrait of Mahmoud Abbas in April 2011.
http://www.newsweek.com/2011/04/24/the-wrath-of-abbas.html
We’re somewhere over the Mediterranean, and Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, is trying to get inside the head of Barack Obama. “We knew him before he became president,” he’s saying, struggling to understand what happened to the man who had seemed more sympathetic to the Palestinian cause than any of his predecessors. “We knew him and he was very receptive.” Around us, Abbas’s closest aides are shuffling papers or typing on laptops, while his bodyguards lounge on long corduroy couches. Saeb Erekat, the ubiquitous adviser, is writing talking points for Abbas’s meeting the next day with French President Nicolas Sarkozy. A man with a sidearm is shoveling pumpkin seeds into his mouth. In a space the size of two living rooms, most of the 20-odd passengers are puffing on cigarettes, and so is Abbas. At 76, he smokes more than two packs a day.
Abbas is about as affable as politicians come—even hawkish Israelis like Ariel Sharon have said so. But occasionally, he can deliver a shot of scathing criticism, usually followed by a grandfatherly smile. A week earlier, he told me bluntly that Obama had led him on, and then let him down by failing to keep pressure on Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for a moratorium on settlement building in the West Bank last year. “It was Obama who suggested a full settlement freeze,” Abbas explained. “I said OK, I accept. We both went up the tree. After that, he came down with a ladder and he removed the ladder and said to me, jump. Three times he did it.” Abbas also criticized the mediation efforts of Obama’s special envoy, George Mitchell, who has shuttled between Israelis and Palestinians for more than two years. “Every visit by Mitchell, we talked to him and gave him some ideas. At the end we discovered that he didn’t convey any of these ideas to the Israelis. What does it mean?”
Now, on the flight from Tunis to Paris, I wanted to know how long Abbas could wait. The next 18 months are probably dead time in Israeli-Palestinian diplomacy as Obama focuses on his reelection campaign. No candidate for president wants to risk alienating Israel’s supporters by pressing the peace question. But a second-term president can be bolder. Bill Clinton, after his reelection in 1996, managed to get an Israeli agreement for a partial West Bank withdrawal. Netanyahu remembers it well: he was prime minister at the time. But Abbas, who has worked every angle for Palestinian statehood for 50 years, the last six as president, says he’s nearly out of time. “I cannot wait. Somebody will wait instead of me,” he tells me. “And I will not stay more.”
As the Middle East undergoes profound transformation, Americans can count on one thing in the region remaining the same: the unresolved Israeli-Palestinian conflict will continue to be an irritant for Arabs and a source of resentment against the United States. Abbas offered the best hope for peace between the two sides when he took over for Yasir Arafat in 2004. Moderate in his approach to Israel and unequivocally against violence, he was the counterpoint to Arafat’s wiliness and eccentricity.
Paolo Verzone / Agence VU for Newsweek
Mahmoud Abbas being interviewed by media at the Hotel Meurice in Paris, in April 2011
The optimism didn’t last long. In short order Abbas lost his Parliament to the Islamists of Hamas and then lost Gaza to the same uncompromising group. By the time he and Prime Minister Ehud Olmert drew close to agreement in 2008, corruption charges made the Israeli leader a lame duck. Then Israelis elected Netanyahu.
If Abbas leaves the stage without a deal, it would add another layer of uncertainty to the regional turbulence. Among political figures in the West Bank and Gaza, Abbas is the most popular, followed by the leader of Hamas. Even if Abbas’s Fatah party can retain power, his successor would lack Abbas’s founding-generation stature. He would likely be less able to push through the required compromises for peace with Israel. “It would really be a tragedy of missed opportunities,” says Yossi Beilin, a former peace negotiator who knows Abbas well.
Farah Nosh
Photos: A History of the West Bank
West Bank Story While these issues swirl, Abbas last week let NEWSWEEK into his personal space. For five days, I traveled with him from Jordan to Tunisia to France as he rallied support for a U.N. resolution this September that would confer statehood on the Palestinians—a conscious replication of the process that gave birth to Israel more than 60 years ago. On the plane and before and after the meetings, I had almost unfettered access to Abbas and his closest advisers.
The team travels on an Airbus A318 borrowed from the United Arab Emirates (the PLO owns just a tiny jet). When fitted for commercial flights, it holds 132 passengers, but in the current configuration, it has all the comforts of a private plane: open spaces, wood-topped coffee tables, and leather bucket seats. Abbas’s travel routine includes a few moments of prayer in his seat during takeoff and then about 15 minutes of reading from a dog-eared copy of the Quran. Through much of the flight, stewardesses are wheeling out Middle East staples like couscous and kebabs but also shrimp and calamari and mussels, which Abbas seems to particularly like. As we’re landing in Tunis, an aide who’d introduced himself as Colonel Said goes around spraying Paco Rabanne Ultraviolet on each of the passengers.
The trip has all the trappings of a foreign tour by a head of state: the presidential marching bands at the airports and the convoys of black luxury cars speeding through town as policemen hold up traffic (in Paris, no less). They’re a testament to the juggernaut the PLO has built up over many decades, and the broad sympathy governments have for the Palestinian cause. But Abbas is constantly aware that he heads something short of a state, and that the time left for him to achieve independence is ticking down.
Paolo Pellegrin
Photos: Gaza on My Mind
Gaza: Wounded City Behind the Blockade On the evening of Feb. 17, Abbas got a phone call to his office in Ramallah. President Obama was on the line with a request. In the preceding weeks, Arab protesters in the region had toppled two longtime autocrats, including one of America’s closest Arab friends, Hosni Mubarak. Demonstrations raged in Libya and Yemen, and would soon spread to Syria. In Washington, officials worried that the protesters would eventually focus on America’s relationship with some of these dictators and on its support for Israel. Obama’s cautious steps seemed to be preventing the dreaded scenes of protesters burning American flags. But a U.N. Security Council resolution initiated by Palestinians and scheduled to be debated the next day threatened to remind Arabs of the very thing they hate most about America.
The resolution demanded that Israel “immediately and completely cease all settlement activities in the occupied Palestinian territory,” a position Obama long supported. In fact, Palestinians say they lifted the language straight from public remarks made by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. But it put Obama in a bind. Members of his Democratic Party felt they’d paid a price in the midterm elections a few months earlier for Obama’s tough stand with Netanyahu in the preceding year. An American veto might mitigate the damage. But it would also remind the Arab demonstrators how uncritical America’s support for Israel can often be.
So for 55 minutes on the phone, Obama first reasoned with and then pressured Abbas to withdraw the resolution. “He said it’s better for you and for us and for our relations,” says Abbas. Then the American president politely made what Abbas describes as a “list of sanctions” Palestinians would endure if the vote went ahead. Among other things, he warned that Congress would not approve the $475 million in aid America gives the Palestinians.
Abbas relates the story to me during our stop in Tunis. In the presidential guest house, a sprawling compound of luxurious suites and chandeliered meeting rooms, the televisions are all tuned to the Arabic news networks. In this news cycle, the focus is Syria, where Bashar al-Assad has launched a violent crackdown against protesters. The Palestinians in the room are all rooting against Assad, who has given money and support to Abbas’s rivals in Hamas. Earlier in the week, the conversation with Abbas had turned to Mubarak and America’s handling of the revolution in Egypt. Abbas told me he thought the push Obama gave Mubarak was “impolite” and imprudent. “From day one, when it started with Mubarak, I had a telephone call with Madame Clinton. I told her, ‘Do you know what are the consequences? Either chaos, or Muslim Brotherhood or both,’?” he says. “Now they have both.”
After Abbas informed Obama he wouldn’t withdraw the resolution, Clinton followed up with a 30-minute exhortation of her own. Then more pressure. Lower-level officials phoned several Palestinian influentials in Ramallah and asked them to use their sway over the Palestinian leader. Still, Abbas was unprepared for what was coming. Only when he watched the Security Council vote on television did the reality sink in. “I had an idea that they will abstain,” he tells me. “But when they said, ‘Who will be against?’ my friend Susan [America’s ambassador to the U.N., Susan Rice] raises her hand.” Abbas shakes his arm and lets out a long hoot. The council’s 14 other members, including France and Germany, all supported the resolution.
Late last week, when NEWSWEEK’s White House reporter asked a spokesman for a response to Abbas’s criticism, a senior administration official who had been in the room during Obama’s conversation with Abbas described the account as a “selective reading of how those events transpired.” The official declined to be identified. But Tommy Vietor, a spokesman for Obama’s National Security Council, was willing to be quoted by name. He said the conversations with Abbas and Clinton were shorter than Abbas maintains and insisted that Obama did not raise the possibility of punitive measures. “It’s simply not accurate to claim that he threatened President Abbas,” Vietor said. “President Obama made the same case privately that we make publicly—that this effort does not help the Palestinians, Israelis, or the cause of peace.”
The White House also took exception with the notion that Obama left Abbas in the cold; one official called the accusation “nonsense.” And Vietor described as “totally inaccurate” Abbas’s criticism of Mitchell, the envoy. “Of course he carried both parties’ ideas to each other all the time.”
In Paris, the French government sends luxury Peugeots to ferry Abbas and his closest aides from Orly airport, while the rest of the entourage gets around in Mercedeses owned by a private car company. My driver tells me the company’s owner is a Palestinian who has been friends with Abbas and Arafat since the 1960s. He provides the cars gratis whenever the delegation comes to town. His company also provides service to Arafat’s widow, Suha, who lives in Paris and whom my driver describes as “generous with the tips.”
We’re dropped at the hotel Le Meurice across from the Tuileries Garden. Adjoining suites make up Abbas’s room and his office, and aides and guests are constantly coming and going. On the sidewalk outside, a few dozen groupies wait for Beyoncé Knowles, who is also staying at the hotel. She crosses the lobby moments before Abbas heads out to his meetings.
On the agenda with Sarkozy is the outlook for September, when Abbas plans to make his big U.N. gambit. United Nations maneuvering, especially when it relates to the Middle East, is usually the equivalent of a political Ambien. But Abbas believes a resolution that recognizes a new state of Palestine in the 1967 borders would be a game changer, especially if it has the support of the world’s leading democracies. Which is why Paris is the fifth European capital he’s visited in the past six weeks. Judging by Israel’s response, he might not be wrong. In a speech to Israel supporters in New York last month, the usually unflappable defense minister, Ehud Barak, warned that Israel faces deep isolation, a “diplomatic tsunami,” come September.
In the room, Sarkozy is receptive. He tells Abbas he’s incensed by Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu’s settlement building and supports Palestinian independence. Still, the U.N. vote could draw a harsh Israeli response or trigger another round of violence. After an hour of talks, the French president remains noncommittal.
The strategy for September marks a gamble for Abbas. At least one of his aides worries it will generate the kind of expectation that the Palestinian leader couldn’t then meet. U.N. votes don’t make 500,000 Jewish settlers suddenly disappear from the West Bank and East Jerusalem. And Netanyahu is unlikely to just hand over the keys. (His spokesman, Mark Regev, said about the U.N. initiative: “The Palestinians can go for more empty rhetoric or choose a path of real change. The only way to peace and Palestinian statehood is through negotiations with Israel.”) For the statehood resolution to have more than just symbolic impact, Abbas would have to come back from New York and assert sovereignty over the territory the U.N. just handed him. But that would entail confrontational measures—for instance, ending the security cooperation with Israel. Abbas told me that’s a path he will not take.
The danger is that without tangible movement, the disappointment could turn into popular anger—directed at Israel or even at the Palestinian president himself. Abbas is fond of saying that if just 10 people protested outside his office in Ramallah, he would step down, in contrast to the Arab leaders who cling to power. When he told me that on the trip, one of his aides corrected him: “You said three people the last time.”
Abbas is missing the tip of his right ring finger. The story I’d heard seemed to reflect the awkwardness Abbas experienced going from being Arafat’s behind-the-curtain deputy to leading the PLO—and how much he hated crowds. While campaigning for president after Arafat died in late 2004, a horde of people surrounded his car in southern Gaza. Unsure about their intentions, he pressed the electric button of his armored window and closed it on his own finger. But Abbas told me the real story, a version that made more sense. It was his driver, concerned for his safety, who pressed the button. By the time Abbas reacted, the tip of his finger had been severed.
Abbas was due to give a speech in the town, so he bandaged the finger and stayed for two hours. The same driver then ferried him to a hospital in Gaza City, 30 kilometers away. “I found the doctor there, he made the surgery for me,” Abbas told me.
Is the driver still working for him? “No, no, no. I told him, ‘You have to leave,’ and he left.”
With Daniel Stone in Washington and Joanna Chen in Jerusalem
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Abbas is missing the tip of his right ring finger. The story I’d heard seemed to reflect the awkwardness Abbas experienced going from being Arafat’s behind-the-curtain deputy to leading the PLO—and how much he hated crowds. While campaigning for president after Arafat died in late 2004, a horde of people surrounded his car in southern Gaza. Unsure about their intentions, he pressed the electric button of his armored window and closed it on his own finger. But Abbas told me the real story, a version that made more sense. It was his driver, concerned for his safety, who pressed the button. By the time Abbas reacted, the tip of his finger had been severed.
Abbas was due to give a speech in the town, so he bandaged the finger and stayed for two hours. The same driver then ferried him to a hospital in Gaza City, 30 kilometers away. “I found the doctor there, he made the surgery for me,” Abbas told me.
Is the driver still working for him? “No, no, no. I told him, ‘You have to leave,’ and he left.”
damn !
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Riyadh Freezes Huge US Arms Deal; US special forces and CIA operations suspended in Yemen
04/11/2011
David Virgil Dafinoiu
http://securityandintelligence.wordpress.com/2011/04/11/riyadh-freezes-huge-us-arms-deal-us-special-forces-and-cia-operations-suspended-in-yemen
The sixty-year old US-Saudi alliance has had its ups and downs but the differences were never allowed to sink to the icy level which marks them today and is seriously hurting America’s strategic standing in the Arabian Peninsula and Persian Gulf.
By the time Defense Secretary Robert Gates arrived in Riyadh Wednesday, April 6, things had gone too far for his rescue mission to have any chance of success. His conversation with King Abdullah got exactly nowhere.
Gates hurried over to Riyadh after a secret Saudi message was received in Washington announcing a freeze on arms purchases from the United States, a first in Saudi-US military relations. The message explained that Riyadh needed spare funds to finance military operations against Iran in view of the deteriorating security situation. It hinted at the high cost of deploying Saudi troops in Bahrain and buttressing the oil kingdom’s border with Yemen in view of escalating civil warfare and Yemen President Abdullah Ali Saleh‘s uphill battle against his opposition.
Underlying the words was a hint that Riyadh intended to go shopping for cheaper weapons systems outside the United States, which was unheard of until now. New ground was also broken by Riyadh’s explanation that it needs to address the military and nuclear threat coming from Iran. For decades, America was accepted without question by all parts of the Gulf region as their as trusty security shield.
First Saudi arms shopping expedition ever outside the US
The blow to American pockets as well as its prestige is disastrous: Saudi Arabia is the top buyer of American military hardware. It committed last year to a package, including F-15 fighter jets and a range of helicopters, worth $60 billion, the largest America’s military industry has ever landed.
Shortly before Gates landed in Riyadh, US officials briefing the press traveling on his plane assured them he would bring “good news” from Riyadh on the arms deal. But other officials admitted that the Saudi Arabian monarchy was “so unhappy with the Obama administration for the way it pushed out President Mubarak of Egypt” that it had sent senior officials to the People’s Republic of China and Russia in search of expanded business and defense procurement opportunities.
The conversation between the Saudi King and US defense secretary ranged over four main subjects: Iran, Bahrain, Yemen and the Saudi-US arms transaction.
On Iran, Riyadh and Washington were wider apart than ever before, their differences on the handling of Iran’s expansionist thrust and nuclear program exacerbated by the latest Arab turmoil.
In a blistering denunciation, the king told Gates he found it hard to excuse the Obama administration’s obdurate disregard of Saudi intelligence updates to the CIA on the complicity of Tehran and Hizballah in destabilizing Lebanon and Bahrain.
Bushehr – a ticking Fukushima on Saudi Arabia’s doorstep
Even less excusable in the Saudi view was Washington’s refusal to take seriously the testimony offered after Saudi troops entered Manama to defend the Bahraini throne that Iran was stepping up its preparations for military intervention after fomenting riots among the 2 million Shiites living in the eastern Saudi oil regions.
The Saudi ruler had concluded that no matter what evidence was put before President Barack Obama, he would never be deflected from his policy of engagement with Tehran.
Abdullah warned that American indulgence of Iran’s nuclear aspirations was placing the very survival of Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf states in grave jeopardy.
The king had a particular bone to pick over the Iranian nuclear reactor at Bushehr, our sources disclose. Despite all of our warnings, Abdullah told Gates, you tried to persuade us (in August 2010) that Iran’s first reactor would be harmless. And what do we see today if not a potential Fukushima on our doorstep? Even Tehran is scared to activate it after witnessing the Japanese nuclear calamity, realizing that if it explodes, millions of Iranians will die.
So how are we supposed to feel now about the Iranian reactor and US assurances?
Abdullah was harshly critical of the US presidential advisers’ counsel to the White House to withhold endorsement from Saudi military intervention in Bahrain.
As long as Washington hopes to topple the Bahraini and Saudi kingdoms by promoting pro-democracy revolutions on the Egyptian pattern, why would you expect the Persian Gulf rulers to support America and treat it as an ally? he asked the US defense secretary.
Abdullah tells Saleh to turn his back on Washington and hold tight
King Abdullah explained that once he had realized the Obama administration had no intention of acting in consideration of the security interests of the Saudi and Gulf nations, he resolved to take their affairs into his own hands. He said he now feels free to do what he thinks necessary to advance those interests without resorting to – or even consulting with – Washington.
Gates confirmed that the US did have “evidence” of Iranian meddling in the turmoil besetting Bahrain and other Middle Eastern countries, refuting the Obama administration’s public statements denying Iran was a primary factor. But this admission most probably came too late. Abdullah has set his course on a new policy that distances the kingdom from the United States. Even though Gates disagrees with Obama on the Middle East – and especially on military intervention in Libya – the Saudi monarch knows that his time is almost up at the Pentagon.
According to USSO Gulf sources, Riyadh has in the past 10 days struck out against the United States by launching an independent course in Yemen.
Last week, the Obama administration reversed its policy of support for President Abdullah Ali Saleh and told him it was time to negotiate terms for his departure with the opposition.
The Saudis stepped in thereupon and told Saleh to ignore Washington and hold tight because from now on, he could count on Saudi-led GCC backing taking the place of the United States.
This was Riyadh’s first public demonstration of the new policy as exercised in the Arabian Peninsula. It was followed, according to our exclusive counter-terror sources, by intensive consultations between the Yemeni president and Saudi intelligence chiefs who visited the palace in Sanaa, and at least two top-level conversations between King Abdullah and the Yemeni president.
US special forces and CIA operations suspended in Yemen
The upshot was dramatic and never until now revealed.
Late last week, a communication from President Saleh reached Washington announcing the suspension of US special forces’ operations at their secret base near the port city of Hodeida and the hold-up of covert CIA activity against Al Qaeda in Yemen.
In other words, American forces are banned from using Yemeni soil or its Red Sea waters as bases for striking Al Qaeda terrorists in Arabia.
This is the first time that fallout from Arab Revolt – called by some the Arab Spring – has impaired America’s war on Al Qaeda. It has increased the danger that terrorists hiding in Yemen, the most notorious of whom is the Muslim cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, who is connected to at least three terrorist attacks, including the Fort Hood shooting, will be free to resume their attacks in the United States.
That is just one of the side-effects of Saudi King Abdullah’s new policy.
Hey, fuckface. Post your law degree and bar exam results.
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Ha ha ha ha - go to the vboard. Please jump on board the 333386 challenge. Getting a few of you haters banned is going to be fun.
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No Mideast vision, only indecision
By MICHAEL GOODWIN
Last Updated: 2:31 AM, April 27, 2011
At A recent gathering in New York, a writer with ties to the British government reported that the view from the other side of the pond is that "the leader of the free world doesn't want to lead the free world."
On this side of the pond, a member of the Obama team inadvertently confirms that view. An anonymous official tells The New Yorker magazine that, in Libya, the president is "leading from behind."
There is another word for "leading from behind." It's "following."
Yet to lead or not to lead is not really a choice for an American president. So Obama deigns to lead, but only on his misguided terms. Because America, in his eyes, is not worthy to set the global agenda, it must speak softly and carry a little stick.
The results already are disastrous, especially in the Muslim world. The irony is that Obama's desire to "reset" America's relationship with Islamic countries has helped set the stage for growing influence by the Muslim Brotherhood and other violent fundamentalists.
After waffling on the uprising in Egypt, he clumsily helped to push out Hosni Mubarak without a thought as to who or what would follow.
Similarly, the rush to "do something" in Libya came without a clear goal, was half-hearted and thus wrong-headed. Because military action is a zero-sum game, the Libyan misadventure means there is no saber to rattle at Syria, where a gangster government uses tanks against civilians and where regime change would be far more helpful to peace and our vital national interests.
Meanwhile, Iran, the one true global menace, marches freely toward the nuclear bomb. Nor does it suffer real consequence for spreading terror abroad and repressing dissent at home.
World events have a mind of their own, of course, but in the last 100 years, it was usually left to America to lead the way in giving them shape and providing a sense of order. As Madeleine Albright, former secretary of state, put it, "We are the indispensable nation."
By that yardstick, when a president refuses to embrace the role of world leader, as Obama has, he bears significant responsibility for the resulting global disorder.
Again, take the Libyan mess. By "leading from behind," Obama turned the bulk of air attacks over to other NATO members. But France and Great Britain, used to depending on American protection, have gutted their militaries over the years to the point where together they can't muster the might to defeat the pipsqueak army of Moammar Khadafy.
The stalemate reveals another dimension to the foreign-policy divide. Traditionally, views fall into either the realism or the idealism camp, but Obama's record presents another option: competence versus incompetence.
His early determination to forge a lasting peace between Israel and the Palestinians is instructive. Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, tells Newsweek magazine that "it was Obama who suggested a full settlement freeze" in contested areas.
Obama repeatedly was warned by Mideast experts that the demand would backfire, and it has. Abbas adopted a settlement freeze as a precondition for negotiations, and because Israel agreed to only limited halts, the result has been the longest period without direct talks in 17 years, a disruption that continues.
Abbas says he felt betrayed when Obama, facing a revolt among Jewish backers and Democrats in Congress, effectively dropped the demand and left him hanging.
"We both went up the tree," Abbas said. "After that, he came down with a ladder and he removed the ladder and said to me, jump. Three times he did it."
That's our president, alright, the not-leader of the free world.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/no_mideast_vision_only_indecision_DHxMyRBkM5jZjBMWigECHM
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'Opening a new page': Egypt warms to Iran, Hamas (Didn't see this coming!)
ny times ^ | 4/29/2011 | DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK / NY Times
Posted on April 29, 2011 6:57:21 AM EDT by tobyhill
Egypt is charting a new course in its foreign policy that has already begun shaking up the established order in the Middle East, planning to open the blockaded border with Gaza and normalizing relations with two of Israel and the West’s Islamist foes, Hamas and Iran.
Egyptian officials, emboldened by the revolution and with an eye on coming elections, say that they are moving toward policies that more accurately reflect public opinion. In the process they are seeking to reclaim the influence over the region that waned as their country became a predictable ally of Washington and the Israelis in the years since the 1979 peace treaty with Israel.
The first major display of this new tack was the deal Egypt brokered Wednesday to reconcile the secular Palestinian party Fatah with its rival Hamas. “We are opening a new page,” said Ambassador Menha Bakhoum, spokeswoman for the Foreign Ministry. “Egypt is resuming its role that was once abdicated.”
Egypt’s shifts are likely to alter the balance of power in the region, allowing Iran new access to a previously implacable foe and creating distance between itself and Israel, which has been watching the changes with some alarm. “We are troubled by some of the recent actions coming out of Egypt,” said one senior Israeli official, citing a “rapprochement between Iran and Egypt” as well as “an upgrading of the relationship between Egypt and Hamas.”
“These developments could have strategic implications on Israel’s security,” the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because the issues were still under discussion in diplomatic channels. “In the past Hamas was able to rearm when Egypt was making efforts to prevent that. How much more can they build their terrorist machine in Gaza if Egypt were to stop?”
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
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Leading From Behind' Is Not A Real Doctrine
By CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER
Posted 04/28/2011 06:40 PM ET
"Obama may be moving toward something resembling a doctrine. One of his advisers described the president's actions in Libya as 'leading from behind.'" —Ryan Lizza, The New Yorker, May 2
To be precise, leading from behind is a style, not a doctrine. Doctrines involve ideas, but since there are no discernible ones that make sense of Obama foreign policy — Lizza's painstaking two-year chronicle shows it to be as ad hoc, erratic and confused as it appears — this will have to do.
And it surely is an accurate description, from President Obama's shocking passivity during Iran's 2009 Green Revolution to his dithering on Libya, acting at the very last moment, then handing off to a bickering coalition, yielding the current bloody stalemate.
It's been a foreign policy of hesitation, delay and indecision, marked by plaintive appeals to the (fictional) "international community" to do what only America can.
But underlying that style, assures this Obama adviser, there really are ideas. Indeed, "two unspoken beliefs," explains Lizza. "That the relative power of the U.S. is declining, as rivals like China rise, and that the U.S. is reviled in many parts of the world."
Amazing. This is why Obama is deliberately diminishing American presence, standing and leadership in the world?
Take proposition one: We must "lead from behind" because U.S. relative power is declining. Even if you accept the premise, it's a complete non sequitur. What does China's rising GDP have to do with American buck-passing on Libya, misjudging Iran, appeasing Syria?
True, China is rising. But first, it is the only power of any significance rising militarily relative to us. Russia is recovering from levels of military strength so low that it barely registers globally. And European power is in true decline (see their performance — except for the British — in Afghanistan and their current misadventures in Libya).
And second, the challenge of a rising Chinese military is still exclusively regional. It would affect a war over Taiwan. It has zero effect on anything significantly beyond China's coast. China has no blue-water navy. It has no foreign bases. It cannot project power globally. It might in the future — but by what logic should that paralyze us today?
Proposition two: We must lead from behind because we are reviled. Pray tell, when were we not? During Vietnam? Or earlier, under Eisenhower? When his vice president was sent on a good will trip to Latin America, he was spat upon and so threatened by the crowds that he had to cut short his trip. Or maybe later, under the blessed Reagan? The Reagan years were marked by vast demonstrations in the capitals of our closest allies denouncing America as a warmongering menace taking the world into nuclear winter.
"Obama came of age politically," explains Lizza, "during the post-Cold War era, a time when America's unmatched power created widespread resentment." But the world did not begin with the coming to consciousness of Barack Obama. Cold War resentments ran just as deep.
It is the fate of any assertive superpower to be envied, denounced and blamed for everything under the sun. Nothing has changed. Moreover, for a country so deeply reviled, why during the massive unrest in Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain, Yemen, Jordan and Syria have anti-American demonstrations been such a rarity?
Who truly reviles America the hegemon? The world that Obama lived in and that shaped him intellectually: the elite universities; his Hyde Park milieu (including his not-to-be-mentioned friends, William Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn); the church he attended for two decades, ringing with sermons more virulently anti-American than anything heard in today's full-throated uprising of the Arab Street.
It is the liberal elites who revile the American colossus and devoutly wish to see it cut down to size. Leading from behind — diminishing America's global standing and assertiveness — is a reaction to their view of America, not the world's.
Other presidents take anti-Americanism as a given, rather than evidence of American malignancy, believing — as do most Americans — in the rightness of our cause and the nobility of our intentions.
Obama thinks anti-Americanism is a verdict on America's fitness for leadership. I would suggest that "leading from behind" is a verdict on Obama's fitness for leadership.
Leading from behind is not leading. It is abdicating. It is also an oxymoron. Yet a sympathetic journalist, channeling an Obama adviser, elevates it to a doctrine. The president is no doubt flattered. The rest of us are merely stunned.
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That's all the evidence I need.
He is obviously out to destroy America.
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That's all the evidence I need.
He is obviously out to destroy America.
Welcome aboard. Better late than never.
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Welcome aboard. Better late than never.
forgive 3333..he doesn't get sarcasm very well
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Egypt warns Israel: Don't interfere with opening of Gaza border crossing
haaretz ^ | 4/30/11 | Haaretz Service
Posted on May 1, 2011 1:24:21 AM EDT by Nachum
Rafah's opening would be a violation of an agreement reached in 2005 between the U.S., Israel, Egypt, and the EU; Israel official tells the Wall Street Journal developments in Egypt could affect Israel's national security.
Chief of Staff of the Egyptian Armed Forces General Sami Anan warned Israel against interfering with Egypt's plan to open the Rafah border crossing with Gaza on a permanent basis, saying it was not a matter of Israel's concern, Army Radio reported on Saturday.
Egypt announced this week that it intended to permanently open the border crossing with Gaza within the next few days.
(Excerpt) Read more at haaretz.com ...
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forgive 3333..he doesn't get sarcasm very well
i know, i try to keep things simple....
and short.
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Conservatives knuckleheads are awfully quiet now huh?
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Conservatives knuckleheads are awfully quiet now huh?
::) ::)
Please. Egypt is still a mess and the MB is going to take over.
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::) ::)
Please. Egypt is still a mess and the MB is going to take over.
thats their problem.....its not Obama's fault....anyway the pundits on CNN and on Fareed Zakaria were very optimistic that the MB would not take over
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333386 won't be online for a bit longer, he's watching the Obamas on Oprah.
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333386 won't be online for a bit longer, he's watching the Obamas on Oprah.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Egypt: Two Churches Torched, Overnight Clashes Between Christians And Muslims Leaves 10 Dead, PM Calls Emergency Meeting
Cairo, Egypt (CNN) -- At least six people were killed and 120 injured in sectarian clashes outside a church in Cairo on Saturday, officials said.
A group of Muslim Salafists attacked the Saint Mena Coptic Orthodox Church. Gunfire rang out as people sprinted for cover.
"With my own eyes I saw three people killed and dozens injured," said Mina Adel, a Christian resident. "There's no security here. There's a big problem. People attacked us, and we have to protect ourselves."
Egyptian Interior Ministry spokesman Alla Mahmoud said in a statement that six people were killed and 120 injured.
He said the clashes were sparked by reports of a Christian woman who married a Muslim man and was allegedly being held inside the church.
State TV, citing a source at the Health Ministry, said that eight people died and 144 were wounded in the violence.
Nearby, firefighters responded to a blaze at the Saint Virgin Mary's Coptic Orthodox Church. Hundreds of residents stood outside as it burned and two men were seen jumping from a window of the building.
Authorities sent soldiers and police to help secure the area.
Tensions have risen this year between Egypt's Muslim majority and its Coptic minority.
A Coptic church in the town of Alexandria was bombed on New Year's Day, killing 23 people -- the deadliest attack on Christians in Egypt in recent times.
Ten days later, a gunman killed a Christian man and wounded five other Christians on a train in Egypt.
In November, a group with ties to al Qaeda in Iraq announced that all Christians in the Middle East would be "legitimate targets," as the group's deadline for Egypt's Coptic church to release alleged Muslim female prisoners expired.
The group's claim that the Coptic Church in Egypt is holding female prisoners is based on widespread rumors of Coptic women in Egypt converting to Islam and being detained by the church in an attempt to compel or persuade them to return to their original faith.
About 9% of Egypt's 80 million residents are Coptic Christians. They base their theology on the teachings of the Apostle Mark, who introduced Christianity to Egypt, according to St. Takla Church in Alexandria, the capital of Coptic Christianity.
The religion split with other Christians in the 5th century over the definition of the divinity of Jesus Christ.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/05/07/egypt.clashes/
Egypt going places! ::)
So, churches burned in Egypt. Hundreds of Nigerian Christians slaughtered by Muslims this weekend along with the burning of countless churches and other buildings. Can't imagine how many bibles were burned. Will Christians storm the UN embassy and behead the employees?
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What a success.
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You must still be in awe over the OBL operation.
We understand.
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You must still be in awe over the OBL operation.
We understand.
You've been trying to troll for 3 weeks now and failing miserably. How sad.
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Oh please. Hillary and panetta along w the cia and the seals.
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You've been trying to troll for 3 weeks now and failing miserably. How sad.
Why don't you find something constructive to do with your time, son?
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Why don't you find something constructive to do with your time, son?
Ironic.
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Why don't you find something constructive to do with your time, son?
we're all just killing time here ; waiting for 2 weeks before the national election...waiting for the real fun to start.
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Yeah frigging brilliant! Muslims killing christians and burning everything down. Lmao.
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Muslims, Christians Clash In Cairo, Egypt After Mob Burns Church
Firemen fight a fire at a church surrounded by angry Muslims in the Imbaba neighborhood in Cairo late Saturday, May 7, 2011. (AP Phot)
By SARAH EL DEEB 05/ 8/11 12:25 PM ET
www.huffingtonpost.com
CAIRO -- Hundreds of Christians and Muslims hurled stones at each other in downtown Cairo on Sunday, hours after Muslim mobs set fire to a church and a Christian-owned apartment building in a frenzy of violence that killed 12 people and injured more than 200.
The deepening religious violence in military-ruled Egypt is exacerbating the lawlessness and disorder of the country's bumpy transition to democracy after three decades of autocratic rule under former President Hosni Mubarak was brought to an end in February.
Muslim youths attacked a large crowd of Coptic Christian protesters marching from the headquarters of Egypt's general prosecutor to the state television building overlooking the Nile, said Christian activist Bishoy Tamri. TV images showed both sides furiously throwing stones, including one Christian who held a large wooden cross in one hand while flinging rocks with another.
Scores were injured, but an army unit securing the TV building did nothing to stop the violence, Tamri said.
Hours earlier, mobs of ultraconservative Muslims attacked the Virgin Mary Church in the slum of Imbaba on the opposite side of the Nile. The attack was fueled by rumors that a Christian woman married to a Muslim man had been abducted by the church. Residents said a separate mob of youths armed with knives and machetes attacked an apartment building several blocks away with firebombs.
"People were scared to come near them," said resident Adel Mohammed, 29, who lives near the Virgin Mary Church. "They looked scary. They threw their firebombs at the church and set parts of it ablaze."
The military deployed armored vehicles and dozens of troop carriers to cordon off a main street leading to the area. They halted traffic and turned away pedestrians. Men, women and children watching from balconies took photos with mobile phones and cheered the troops.
Islamic clerics denounced the violence, sounding alarm bells at the escalating tension during the transitional period following Mubarak's Feb. 11 ouster by a popular uprising.
"These events do not benefit either Muslim or Copts," Ahmed al-Tayyeb, the sheik of al-Azhar, told the daily Al-Ahram.
Story continues below
Interfaith relationships are taboo in Egypt, where the Muslim majority and sizable Christian minority are both largely conservative. Such relationships are often the source of deadly clashes between the faiths.
During the 18-day uprising that ousted Mubarak, there was a rare spirit of brotherhood between Muslims and Christians. Each group protected the other during prayer sessions in Cairo's Tahrir Square, the epicenter of the revolution.
But in the months that followed, there has been a sharp rise in sectarian tensions, fueled in part by a movement of ultraconservative Muslims known as Salafis who have become more active in Egypt.
(This version CORRECTS that one church was burned in overnight attack).)
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Egyptian Copts, Reeling From Violence, Want Protection
CNN ^ | 5/9/11 | Mohamed Fadel Fahmy and Ian Lee
Cairo (CNN) -- Muslim-Christian sectarian violence intensified in Egypt this weekend, spurring an emergency meeting of the Cabinet and public exhortations from Coptic Christians for international protection.
At least 12 people were killed and 232 others were wounded in sectarian clashes outside a Cairo church, according to state TV. Officials said violence began over rumors that a Christian woman who converted to Islam was being held at the church against her will.
Prime Minister Essam Sharaf postponed a trip to Bahrain and the United Arab Emirates to discuss the church attack and hold the emergency meeting, according to EgyNews, Egypt's official news agency.
A small group of Coptic Christians gathering near the U.S. Embassy in Cairo on Sunday called for international protection of Egypt's Christian community and condemned the government for not doing more to protect them.
Small groups composed of Christians and Muslims engaged in heated debate sectarian tensions mounted, but they were peaceful. Soldiers stood in a line across the road to prevent protesters from approaching the U.S. embassy.
In the Cairo neighborhood of Maspiro, violence erupted when several hundred people, predominantly Christian but also Muslims, demonstrated in favor of national unity in front of the TV building.
Stones were hurled and people threw bricks from rooftops on predominantly Christian protesters. Some people were injured.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...
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Christians Beginning to Flee Egypt
Catholic Culture ^ | 5/12/11
Fearful for their safety, some Coptic Christians have begun to flee Egypt, according to John Pontifex, spokesman for Aid to the Church in Need.
Offering an overview of recent violence against Christians in the Cairo suburb of Imbaba, Pontifex told Vatican Radio that “there is this great fear and great uncertainty that many people feel about the future for Christianity in an area where all the time there are reports coming through of Christians saying, ‘We want to leave, we do not feel safe here.’”
Only 0.3% of Egypt's 79.1 million people are Catholic, according to Vatican statistics; in all, an estimated 9% of Egyptians are Christian, most of them Coptic Orthodox.
Minority Christians fear future of Egypt (Vatican Radio)
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Coptic Christians slaughtered in Egypt as the world (especially Barack Obama) looks away
TWELVE Christian were murdered in Egypt. Two hundred and thirty-two people wounded. The death toll will surely rise as victims succumb to their injuries. And that's just in the past few days. In the same time period, more Christians were killed in Egypt at the hands of Muslims than people killed in Syria or in Libya as a result of protests, riots and resistance.
Two churches in Cairo were burned in recent days. Over the past few months church property has being gutted, vandalised and violated with graffiti. Churches have been blown up.
An entire community - the Christian community in the new Egypt - is under attack. And the world remains relatively silent. There has been no significant religious outcry, political redress or diplomatic pressure to stop the attacks. There has been almost no media coverage as Egypt's Muslims systematically, over the past few months, set about massacring Egypt's Christians.
The world is not only standing idly by, it is enabling the massacre. The US naively expects that a new era, begun in new Egypt, will ripple to the rest of the Islamic world. So in the midst of these monstrous mass murders in Egypt, the US has decided to send an extra $US1 billion to help the Egyptians ease the economic crisis that emerged as a result of the ousting of Hosni Mubarak on February 11. Muslims in Egypt are on the warpath - on the religious warpath - and the US is feeding them money.
This most recent round of Christian murders began with the rumour that Christians had kidnapped a Christian woman who had converted to Islam. According to the rumour, the woman was being held in the cellar of one of the churches and Christians were brainwashing her back to Christianity. Egyptian Muslims set out to find this woman. Along the way they murdered, pillaged and burned.
The rumours were not true. There was no kidnapping. But there are two burned churches and 12 murdered Christians.
Threats against Christians have become a near daily event since Christmas. On New Year's Day 21 Christians were killed in a church bombing in the ancient port city of Alexandria. Alexandria has a long history of multiculturalism, it should have, and could have, been a model city where Christians, Muslims and even Jews lived together harmoniously. Statistically, there are no longer any Jews in Egypt, but there are still seven million Christians. Instead, Alexandria has become a symbol of attacking Christians. Do not for a moment think that the date January 1 was an accident - the church was bombed in the middle of holiday mass. No one has been prosecuted. .
A year earlier, on January 7, Coptic Christmas, seven people were killed as they left mass. Six were Christian worshippers, the seventh victim was a Muslim guard. In this case someone was actually arrested.
The ugliest of all Muslim attacks against Christians took place on March 9. On that day 1500 Muslims stormed the Christian community in a modern pogrom. Thirteen people died, 45 were seriously injured, 150 moderately injured. The Egyptians put a military blackout over the material, but the Assyrian International News Agency reported the carnage.
Egypt's Christians are a minority living in a Muslim majority. Coptic Christians are a very successful minority. When Gamal Abdel Nasser took over as ruler, the Copts were 10 per cent of the country and owned 50 per cent of the wealth. In Alexandria, where the Copts still own 50 per cent of the businesses, attacks on Copts are perpetrated by Muslims. Fear of the unknown feeds these murders and fuels the mob that unleashes a fury of hate.
Why has the new Egypt done almost nothing to prevent, protect or prosecute?
Because in their culture, no wrong has been committed. In many of the cases the army was actually present when these attacks took place and the perpetrators took refuge behind army tanks.
In Egypt there exists a cultural norm that sometimes seems to permit killing someone with whom you disagree.. The Western world must insist that if Egypt wishes to get foreign aid, that norm must change.
The history of Christianity in Egypt dates back to the birth of Jesus. Matthew 2:13 describes Joseph and Mary taking Jesus to Egypt to escape the "massacre of the infants". Egypt has historical and religious significance for Christians. And now Egypt also has blood libels against Christians.
Micah D. Halpern's latest book is Thugs: How History's Most Notorious Despots Transformed the World through Terror, Tyranny, and Mass Murder (Thomas Nelson).
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/coptic-christians-slaughtered-in-egypt-as-the-world-looks-away/story-e6frg6zo-1226056354274
Got to love how the world stays silent as the minority Coptic Christians (the true Egyptians, not the imperialist Arab trash that conquered it) are being purged right out of the country.
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The Arab spring unleashes Islamists on Egyptian Christians.
Screaming “With our blood and soul, we will defend you, Islam,” jihadists stormed the Virgin Mary Church in northwest Cairo last weekend. They torched the Coptic Christian house of worship, burned the nearby homes of two Copt families to the ground, attacked a residential complex, killed a dozen people, and wounded more than 200: just another day in this spontaneous democratic uprising by Muslim hearts yearning for freedom.
In the delusional vocabulary of the “Arab Spring,” this particular episode is known as a sectarian “clash.” That was the Washington Post’s take. Its headline reads “12 dead in Egypt as Christians and Muslims clash” — in the same way, one supposes, that a mugger’s fist can be said to “clash” with his victim’s face. The story goes on, in nauseating “cycle of violence” style, to describe “clashes between Muslims and Coptic Christians” that “left” 12 dead, dozens more wounded, “and a church charred” — as if it were not crystal clear who were the clashers and who were the clashees, as if the church were somehow combusted into a flaming heap without some readily identifiable actors having done the charring.
The thugs in question were Egyptian Muslims. Were they representative of all Egyptian Muslims? No, but it would be more accurate to portray them as such than to suggest, as the Pollyanna narrative holds, that Egypt (and Tunisia, and Yemen, and Syria, and Lebanon, and Algeria, and …) is teeming with legions of Gamal al-Madisons.
This is the Egypt where the toppling of the pro-American, pro-peace Mubarak regime was celebrated by the rape of CBS correspondent Lara Logan amid the familiar chants of “Allahu Akbar!” The same Egypt where, just a few weeks ago, Islamist factions wiped out the proponents of democracy by a whopping 78–22 margin in a referendum on the formation of a new government. The result ensures a Muslim Brotherhood hammerlock on the new parliament, and perhaps even the presidency — a Brotherhood leader having announced this week that he will run against the popular but weak Amr Mousa.
The provocation that stirred Muslims this time, as if there had to be one, involved a rumor that Copts are preventing a Christian woman from converting to Islam — and who wouldn’t grab the blowtorch over that? The rumor is probably not true, but what difference does that make? A Christian woman about whom a similar claim was made a couple of years ago ultimately denied that she had ever attempted to become a Muslim. That didn’t stop enraged Muslims — rage being the default condition — from killing 51 people in a similar arson attack on a Syriac Catholic church in post-Saddam, “Made in the U.S.A.” Baghdad.
Meanwhile, back in Egypt, the Copts have been dealing with a rash of “clashes” ever since the early breakout of spring. The Wall Street Journal provides the rundown: a church in Alexandria bombed on New Year’s Eve, killing 23; a Cairo church attacked by angry mobs in March; and last month, rioters in Qena demanding the ouster of the regime-appointed governor because he is a Christian and, under sharia standards, thus unfit to govern in a Muslim land.
Straining to preserve the storyline of a vibrant democracy movement that unites Egyptians across sectarian lines, the Post dispatch was quick to add that the “unrest” in Cairo broke out amid “demonstrations attended by Copts and Muslims to show unity and demand better protection from the government.” Of course, these demonstrations got steamrolled. Why? Because the “Arab Spring” is not the Arab Spring. It is the Islamist ascendancy. Like good democracy fetishists, though, the media is seeing the Egypt it wants to see. To the contrary, in the real Egypt, Islamist ideology is the mainstream, coursing from the beating heart of Al-Azhar University through every part of the country. Without the much-derided Mubarak around to clamp down on it, Islamists have Copts and secularists paralyzed by their habitual “unrest” and “clashes.”
The most ruefully amusing part of the coverage is the water the media dutifully carries for the Obama administration’s campaign to airbrush the Muslim Brotherhood — setting the stage to present the Brothers’ catastrophic accession as a success in the march toward the end of history. In the Post story, the words “Muslim Brotherhood” are nowhere to be found. The “clash,” you are to understand, is the handiwork of the “Salafists.” These, according to the Post, are “a faction of ultraconservative Muslims [who] have become increasingly visible in recent months.” Really? And why would that be? The Post suggests it could be that the “Salafists” are “seeking to boost their standing ahead of elections, scheduled for this fall, by fomenting religious tension.”
Gee, they sound just like the Muslim Brotherhood. But no, couldn’t be. The Journal is even more adamant on that point. Not content to ignore the Brothers’ hands in all this, its news story is an explicit argument that the Brotherhood and the “Salafis” are two very different camps. The Salafis are depicted as the hardliners, emerging from the shadows since “spring” began, and now “implicated in a series of attacks against Christians.” The Brotherhood, by contrast, is the “more moderate” faction — a “discrete political and religious institution” that “condemned the violence.” Sure, they share “a few common political goals, such as the desire to see Sharia law incorporated into the Egyptian legal system,” but you must understand that “the Salafists’ fundamentalist outlook is distinct from the Brotherhood’s merely conservative ideology.” Got that? In fact, “strict Salafis consider more moderate Islamists, such as the Brotherhood, as ‘innovators’ whose practice of the faith includes new or foreign concepts that were introduced into the religion long after the Prophet’s death.”
Hooey. The Muslim Brothers are Salafists. As I detail in The Grand Jihad, the Brotherhood rigorously hews to the Salafist ideology of its founder, Hassan al-Banna. It is a retro-reformist movement that seeks to return to the Islam of Mohammed and the first generations of Muslims — the Salafiyyah (a term derived from al-Salaf al-Salih, the Righteous Companions: Mohammed and the first “rightly guided” caliphs). This is the Islam the Brotherhood seeks to impose on the world, through implementation of Islam’s legal and political system, sharia. The goal of the Salafists is “shared” with the Brotherhood precisely because the Brotherhood and the Salafists are one, as their just-announced electoral pact suggests. What is that goal? Contrary to the Journal’s claim, sharia already is incorporated in the Egyptian legal system: The goal is to make sharia the only law of Egypt, just as it is the only law of Saudi Arabia and Iran. It is the goal of the Brotherhood in all of the scores of countries in which it operates: gradually implement sharia, enclave by enclave, country by country, until a global caliphate is established.
The Brothers have been playing this game for decades: stoking violence but distancing themselves when the violence breaks out; condemning “terrorism” but glorifying “resistance”; feigning a commitment to regular politics but forming Hamas; decrying Osama bin Laden’s attacks on civilians but — when speaking to Arabic audiences — praising bin Laden as a heroic mujahid, a warrior in Allah’s jihad against the oppressors. Yet, when the Obama administration hears the Brothers’ motto — “Allah is our objective, the Prophet is our leader, the Koran is our law, jihad is our way, and dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope. Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!” — it thinks: “largely secular”!
This spring, we’re having a clash with reality.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/267211/ill-season-andrew-c-mccarthy?page=2
Odd. People with half a clue called this all along. Meanwhile, the NY Times of the world and their moronic followers said otherwise. ::)
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Egypt: Muslim Mob Attacks Christian Protesters With Fire Bombs, 65 Injured
CAIRO (AP) — An angry mob attacked a group of mainly Christian protesters demanding drastic measures to heal religious tension amid a spike in violence, leaving 65 people injured, officials said.
The Christian protesters have been holding their sit-in outside the state television building in Cairo for nearly a week following deadly Christian-Muslim clashes that left a church burned and 15 people dead.
More than 100 people rushed into the sit-in area on Sunday, lobbing rocks and fire bombs from an overpass and charging toward the few hundred protesters sleeping in the area. Vehicles were set on fire and fires burned in the middle of the street.
Police and army troops fired in the air to disperse the crowd, and a tree was set on fire under the overpass.
The security official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorised to speak to the media, said the attackers had returned to avenge an earlier scuffle with the protesters who prevented a motorist from going through the area. A fight ensued, and the motorists fired blank rounds. The protesters chased the motorist and beat him badly.
Marc Mino, a protest organiser, told state TV the motorists had provoked the fight after refusing to be searched before entering the protest area, then provoking the protesters.
Medics said 65 were injured in Sunday’s melee, two in critical condition. The security official said nearly 50 of the riot instigators were arrested. . . .
Just hours before the Cairo violence, several suspected Islamic extremists bombed the tomb of a Muslim saint in the northern Sinai town of Sheik Zweid, said a security official, also declining to be identified because he wasn’t authorized to release the information. The official said the eight or nine attackers fled the area. Muslim radicals have blown up at least five other Muslim shrines, because they believe the veneration of saints as a violation of Islam.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/5006890/Mob-attacks-Christian-protesters-on-strike-in-Egypt
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Egypt: Muslim Brotherhood Enters Electoral Coalition With Host of Salafi Islamist Groups
Well, here’s another dismal “unity” pact for you.
The Muslim Brotherhood has announced an electoral coalition with a host of Salafi groups in Egypt, under the banner of seeking an Islamic state. “It was the recent attacks on the Islamic groups that brought us together,” the Brotherhood’s lawyer Sobhi Saleh explained to an Egyptian newspaper on Tuesday.
Saleh’s newfound siege mentality is at odds with the confidence he displayed on Newsnight a few months back. A woman or a Christian, the Islamist attorney told Tim Whewell, could never be president of a post-Mubarak Egypt because Muslims constitute “95 per cent of the population” (not true) and this is the “same policy as in Greece, Spain and in England” (what’s the Arabic for “Iron Lady”?).
Among the Brotherhood’s new parliamentary partners is Jama’a al-Islamiyya, a Salafi group that played a role in the assassination of President Anwar Sadat in 1981 and recently advocated the formation of a Saudi-style “modesty police” for Egypt.
But these are peccadilloes compared with Jama’a’s other claims to notoriety which include:
- Being cited by Ayman al-Zawhiri in 2006 as an affiliate member of al-Qaeda, a courtesy just reciprocated by one Gama’a official who proclaimed that “the assassination [of Osama bin Laden] will open the gates of
Hell and set it face to face with the Muslims’ vengeance”;
- Having its spiritual leader Omar Abdel-Rahman (a.k.a. the “Blind Sheikh”) sentenced for life in the United States for his involvement in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. (The Egyptian caretaker government and the Grand Mufti of Al Azhar are currently soliciting the Yanks for Abdel-Rahman’s release from prison.)
- Killing 18 Greek tourists (14 of whom were women) outside a hotel in Cairo in 1996 because Jama’a militants mistook the travellers for Israelis;
- Killing 9 tourists and injuring 35 more on a bus in Cairo in September 1997;
- Killing another 71 tourists in November 1997 in Luxor.
Jama’a is said to have forsworn violence since the 1990s, but there is a plausible reason why the Muslim Brotherhood would seek an alliance with it now. The movement founded by Hasan al-Banna 83 years ago has lately exhibited signs of ideological schizophrenia, with hardliners overplaying their hand and clawing for absolute control (and media attention) whilst “reformists” break ranks and try to build a base of their own.
It was no coincidence that Saleh also caught the media’s attention this week by threatening to expel any member of the Brotherhood who attempted to run for the Egyptian presidency, a post he says the Brotherhood has no design on as of yet. (Tell that to Dr Abdel Moneim Abolfotouh, a former member of the group’s politburo who has made Trump-like noises about a possible candidacy.)
The Saleh faction might therefore be trying to hedge its bets with a “purer” species of Islamist.
Whatever the motive, Gama’a’s alliance with the any segment of the Brotherhood will only be met with alarm by Egypt’s 8 million or so Coptic Christians who, pace Saleh, make up a full 10 per cent of the population.
Since the pro-democratic happenings in Tahrir Square in January, Egypt’s Christian minority has been consistently persecuted by uncorked crazies. Churches have been set alight and some areas of the country have grown so parlous that Christians are holed up in their homes, afraid to attend Mass even on Palm Sunday. The assurances of Abd Al-Azim, a leader of Gama’a in Alexandria, will have failed to persuade them to do otherwise: “If the Christians want safety they should submit to the rule of God and be confident that the Islamic sharia will protect them.”
Just this week, 190 people were detained overnight in Cairo after 12 people were killed and over 180 hurt in the working-class neighbourhood of Imbaba, where two Coptic churches and people’s homes were firebombed. The reason? A Salafi-hatched rumour that a Christian woman had converted to Islam in order to marry a Muslim man and was being held against her will in the Saint Mena Church (one of the two burnt).
This came after another Christian, Camilia Shehata, had gone on television to deny a similar allegation about her proscribed conversion to Islam.
In late April, the Qena Governorate in Upper Egypt saw an escalation sectarian violence instigated jointly by Salafis and the Brotherhood types who didn’t much like the appointment of a Christian governor. (He has since stepped down.)
Naguib Gabriel, the head of the Egyptian Federation of Human Rights, said in mid-April that his office is now fielding “at least 70 calls per week from people wanting to know how they can emigrate”.
And there you have it: Islamist moderation in Egypt can be measured in exit visas.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/guy/
Quick, andreisadickhead, tell us how awesome a job Obama did on Egypt! ::)
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Muslim Brotherhood — On Second Thought, Maybe We Will Run a Candidate for President
CAIRO — A senior member of Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood unveiled a bid on Thursday, May 12, to run for the country’s presidential elections.
“I will run as an independent candidate in the coming presidential elections,” Abdel-Moneim Abul-Futuh told Reuters.
“I am not a member of any party now.”
A doctor by profession, Abul-Futuh, 60, is currently secretary-general of the Arab Doctors Union.
He holds an MA in hospital management and an LLM from Cairo University’s Faculty of Law.
Abul-Futuh is a member of the Brotherhood’s Shura Council, but not the 16-member governing body.
By unveiling his presidential bid, Abul-Futuh will join a long list of candidates for Egypt’s top post.
Leading among presidential hopefuls are outgoing Arab League chief Amr Moussa and former chief of the UN nuclear watchdog Mohamed ElBaradei.
The Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt’s most powerful opposition group, has said it will not field candidates in the coming presidential elections.
http://www.onislam.net/english/news/africa/452232-brotherhood-leader-to-seek-egypt-presidency.html
Good job, Obama!
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By CAROL E. LEE And JAY SOLOMON
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704281504576329692899835726.html?mod=WSJ_WSJ_US_News_5
WASHINGTON—President Barack Obama will announce this week a new aid plan for the Middle East and North Africa that U.S. officials say will be far bolder than previous American economic assistance to the region.
Mr. Obama will outline the plan, which could include debt cancellation and a reprogramming of financial aid the U.S. already provides to countries like Egypt, in a speech he is scheduled to deliver Thursday at the State Department.
.Whatever aid he announces, though, is unlikely to assuage Arab governments, which had been hoping the White House would push forcibly for a resumption of Palestinian-Israeli peace talks. The president's aides say his speech will focus only briefly on the issue.
"At the end of the day, the Palestinian cause remains a dominant issue," said a senior Arab official. "A speech by the president without addressing the conflict is unlikely to generate much enthusiasm."
Latest News
Power Shifts on Foreign-Policy Team
.Mr. Obama met Tuesday with King Abdullah II of Jordan, who has been pressing U.S. officials to take a more aggressive role in the peace process, according to Arab diplomats.
After the meeting, Mr. Obama said the U.S. will provide Jordan with hundreds of millions of dollars through the Overseas Private Investment Corporation, the government institution that finances and insures private business to promote economic growth. The result, according to the U.S., will be roughly $1 billion for economic activity in Jordan. The president also pledged 50,000 metric tons of wheat.
"All of this will help to stabilize the cost of living and day-to-day situation of Jordanians and will provide a foundation so that these economic reforms can move forward and long-term development can take place," Mr. Obama said.
The president's goal, officials said, is to give a financial boost to the political change sweeping the Mideast and North Africa, where dashed economic aspirations have fed unrest.
Senior U.S. officials are particularly alarmed by the deterioration in Cairo's finances since the street revolt that ousted President Hosni Mubarak in February. The Egyptian government has been forced to spend between $3 billion and $3.5 billion of its foreign-exchange reserves a month to pay for food and other commodities as tourism has plunged and overseas remittances have dried up.
Egypt's government has been seeking relief on around $1 billion in debts tied to wheat purchases in the 1970s, according to officials involved in the talks. Cairo has paid off the principal on these loans, but continues to service interest payments.
The administration is looking at a mixture of direct aid, debt relief, and export credits to help stabilize Egypt's finances. "There are a whole range of tools we could use," said a U.S. official. "We've been looking for the right mix."
Mr. Obama's speech will come ahead of action on economic and trade initiatives that the Group of Eight economic powers are poised to take during their summit in France next week. Leaders are working on a short-term stabilization package, particularly for Egypt and Tunisia, that would involve international financial institutions and perhaps some of the Persian Gulf states, according to a G-8 diplomat.
The diplomat said G-8 member countries may also change trade policies to help boost regional exports to Europe and the U.S., perhaps using the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development, which was set up after the Cold War to help former East Bloc nations.
Mr. Obama may struggle to win over skeptics in Congress. The U.S. already provides Egypt with roughly $1.3 billion a year, and lawmakers are pushing the White House for deep spending cuts.
Additionally, a number of lawmakers have raised concerns in recent weeks about Egypt's post-Mubarak foreign policy, particularly its warming relations with Iran and militant Palestinian group Hamas, which the U.S. and the European Union designate as a terrorist entity.
Mr. Obama's speech comes a day before the president is set to meet with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Washington. After meeting with King Abdullah, Mr. Obama said "it's more vital than ever that both Israelis and Palestinians find a way to get back to the table."
In the speech, Mr. Obama will seek to connect the death of Osama bin Laden with the popular uprisings across the Middle East and North Africa.
"The Arab Spring represents a real and organic repudiation of the things bin Laden stood for in the region and among the people he claimed to represent," a senior administration official said Tuesday, previewing one of the speech's themes.
There will be no new policy on the Mideast peace process in the speech, but Mr. Obama is likely to address the union of the Palestinian Fatah and Hamas factions, the official said, and to say Hamas must reject terrorism and recognize Israel's right to exist if it wants to be part of the Palestinian government.
The president is also expected to refer to the pending effort to have the United Nations recognize a Palestinian state. He plans to restate U.S. policy that the conflict should be settled through negotiations, not by a declaration.
—Laura Meckler contributed to this article.
Write to Jay Solomon at jay.solomon@wsj.com
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What a freaking joke.
Andre - you may be a nice guy - but seriously - screw you for still supporting this asshole.
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Egypt's finance minister says US will grant up to $2 billion in aide(Debt Limit Crisis?)
Ahram Online ^ | May 19,2011 | Ahram Online
Radwan confirms White House announcement, stipulating financial support of around $2 billion from the US and a debt swap agreement that would direct funds for job creation
Egypt’s minister of finance, Samir Radwan, said that US President Barack Obama will announce granting Egypt around $2 billion in financial help during his public address today.
This confirms what the White House announced yesterday, namely relieving Egypt of up to $1 billion in debt through a swap agreement that would direct the funds towards creating jobs and fostering entrepreneurship.
The White House also announced that another $1 billion will be given to Egypt through a loan or a guarantor agreement to finance infrastructure projects.
Radwan, along with Fayza Abo El-Naga, Egypt’s minister of international cooperation, visited Washington earlier this month to negotiate debt waiving and other forms of financial support.
Obama’s address is scheduled for 6:40pm CLT.
________________________ ________________________ ____________
Rot in hell obama you communist sleeper cell marxist pofs.
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Not a single word of condemnation from God-King Obama on the systematic slaughter of Coptic Christians since this revolution at his shitty speech today.
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Not a single word of condemnation from God-King Obama on the systematic slaughter of Coptic Christians since this revolution at his shitty speech today.
I'll give you credit for a change,,,he should have said something about it and supported christians
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You guys are having a copy and paste frenzy.
You remind me of feeding sharks.
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Not a single word of condemnation from God-King Obama on the systematic slaughter of Coptic Christians since this revolution at his shitty speech today.
Uhhh, I think the word you're looking for is president.
Let's not put our elected officials on a pedestal.
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::) ::)
Egypt is turnig ut to be a disaster, and SFB (Shit for Brains) Obama is giving them billions more?
Nice.
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Egypt: Reports of "surge in disappearance of Coptic girls"
jihad watch ^ | 5/20/11 | Marisol
Posted on May 20, 2011 9:52:41 PM EDT by Nachum
Again, what better subterfuge is there than to accuse your enemy of what you yourself have engaged in for years? And the fabricated stories of Muslim women (or alleged converts to Islam) being abducted by Christians in Egypt have indeed provided a handy cover for a new string of disappearances.
They are nothing new, as Coptic Pope Shenouda III observed even in 1976 that "there is a practice to convert Coptic girls to embrace Islam and marry them under terror to Muslim husbands." And our own archives are full of over seven years of such reports. Meanwhile, the world looks the other way, or now pleads, "but, but... Tahrir Square!"
Wishful thinking in Western think tanks and governments won't un-abduct these girls and women. As Islamic groups -- "Salafis" and others -- are emboldened by the lack of challenges they have encountered in the wake of the revolution, there will only be more stories like this. "No Going Back for Egypt's Converted Copts," by Angela Shanahan for The Australian, May 20:
Amid the upheavals in Egypt since January, reports have begun to emerge of a surge in disappearances of Coptic girls.
One priest in Cairo estimates that at least 21 young girls, many as young as 14, have disappeared from his parish alone.
In most cases, when a Christian girl who disappears is found by her family, she has been converted to Islam and married. The Coptic authorities, have even set up a series of refuges in monasteries to handle the growing numbers of girls who wish to return to their families, many of whom are not accepted by their family of origin.
But a worse problem for these women is that their conversion to Islam is irreversible.
It is worth noting that this is a refreshingly frank report.
Religion is stated on Egyptian ID documents and even though secular law provides for reversions, under the growth of sharia they are very difficult, except for those affording legal advocacy.
This situation is not unique to Egypt. There have been consistent reports of girls being coerced into Islamic conversion and marriage in India, Pakistan, and Sri Lanka.
That many of these girls are initially runaways is not in doubt. However, there is also evidence that a huge number are converted and married against their will.
The situation was documented in a controversial report published in 2009 on conversion and forced marriage of Coptic women by Washington DC-based Christian Solidarity International. The authors are Washington academic Michele Clark and Egyptian Coptic broadcast journalist Nadia Ghaly, based in Melbourne.
Between 2005 and 2008 they interviewed and documented 50 Egyptian women, mostly aged between 14 and 25, who had decided to return to their families. All claim to have been tricked, coerced or raped, converted to Islam and married. Most of the interviewees were trying to reconvert to their Christian identity, with limited or no success. The report's conclusions were printed in several major publications, including Forbes magazine.
Since the so-called Arab Spring, and the ensuing riots at Christian churches, the authors are trying to bring the subject of forced conversion and marriage to greater prominence.
Riots by Muslims. Christians aren't being sent out into the street enraged by Sunday's homily.
Both groups live extremely closed, highly traditional separate lives and the norms surrounding marriage and sex are almost medieval, says Ghaly.
So, for example, it is not unheard of for a young Christian girl from a poor family to run away from an arranged marriage. Yet a high proportion of these women claim coercion, even rape, despite the shame that such a claim will cause if the girl wishes to return.
Many claim they were kept as virtual slaves. Others who were able to leave could not bring their children. Ghaly claims this is more than overt religious oppression, and amounts to "a form of cultural genocide".
She cites a document published by Human Rights Watch in November 2007, which says that even if Coptic women can obtain a divorce from their Muslim husband, those who wish to return to Christianity "meet with refusal and harassment from the Civil Status Department of the Ministry of Interior".
Under sharia law, reconversion is considered apostasy punishable by death.
Cultural baggage? The innovation of modern "extremists?" No. That comes from Muhammad's own orders.
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ElBaradei: Egypt is 'disintegrating' as tourism drops
By BLOOMBERG
05/22/2011 12:11
"People don't feel secure, they're buying guns," former IAEA chief says; Egypt suffering from lack of tourism, no investment, inflation.
Talkbacks (15)
Egypt is disintegrating socially and its economy “is bust,” said Mohamed ElBaradei, the former director of the International Atomic Energy Agency and possible candidate for the Egyptian presidency.
“Right now, socially, we are disintegrating,” ElBaradei said on CNN’s “Fareed Zakaria GPS,” scheduled to air Sunday. “Economically we are not in the best state. Politically it’s -- it’s like a black hole. We do not know where we are heading.”
RELATED:
Egyptian FM meets with members of 'Israeli Initiative'
Thousands march on Israeli consulate in Alexandria
ElBaradei said many Egyptians don’t feel secure as the country struggles to create a new government after former president Hosni Mubarak was forced from power by protests earlier this year.
“People do not feel secure,” ElBaradei said. “They are buying guns” to protect themselves, he said.
ElBaradei said he wasn’t sure when a presidential race could begin because there aren’t any laws that outline “how to run a campaign, how you raise funds” or when candidates can become official.
“What kind of state or regime we are going to have?” ElBaradei asked. “Is it a presidential system? Is it a parliamentary system? When are we going to have a new constitution?”
He also expressed concern about the influence of the Islamic group the Muslim Brotherhood, which has had longer to organize than other nascent political contenders. ElBaradei said the election may slip to next year given the uncertainty.
Amre Moussa, the former Egyptian foreign minister who is stepping down as the head of the Arab League to seek his country’s presidency, said in a separate interview on the CNN program that he doesn’t think Egypt’s current problems will “derail the revolution or derail our quest for and movement towards democracy.”
ElBaradei said the Egyptian economy is suffering from no investment, inflation, a budget deficit and lack of tourism. He urged more outside investment in the country to spur an economic recovery.
The number of tourists visiting Egypt slumped by about 60 percent in March from a year earlier, after the popular uprising against Mubarak, according to the Cairo-based government statistics agency. Tourists’ spending fell to $352 million from $1 billion, it said.
In addition to lost tourism revenue, factory output has been hit by strikes and near-daily protests since the uprising, many demanding wage increases. Growth may slow to 1 percent this year, the lowest rate in almost two decades, the International Monetary Fund has said.
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"People don't feel secure, they're buying guns," former IAEA chief says; Egypt suffering from lack of tourism, no investment, inflation.
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Sounds like what Obama has done to the USA as well. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Bump. Looks like el baradie is realizing hope and change is not what was promised - sort of like the rest of us.
Ha ha ha.
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Bump. Looks like el baradie is realizing hope and change is not what was promised - sort of like the rest of us.
Ha ha ha.
Hahaha, as if anything else was going to happen.
Don't worry, they'll probably just focus their rage at Israel and end up getting the shit kicked out of them again.
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Egypt: Muslims surround church, prevent its reopening
(AINA) -- On the morning of May 19 two Coptic priests went to St. Mary and St. Abraham Church in Ain Shams and opened it together with some of the Coptic residents, but later in the day thousands of Muslims surrounded the church to protest its opening, hurled stones at the church building and the Copts, who responded by throwing stones. The army and the police stood there watching and did not intervene (video).
Unable to secure the church, the army and police closed it and arranged for a "reconciliation" meeting between the Coptic priest and the Salafi sheikhs. They also arrested eight Copts, one of them 13-years old, and three Muslims. They were all charged with rioting, violence and causing injury to citizens. Three Copts were also charged with having cartridges but no guns and one 15-year-old boy with possessing two knives. The 3 Muslims were charged with throwing stones at the army.
Father Filopateer Gameel, one of the organizers of the Maspero sit-in, said that during a meeting with the Minister of Interior he was told he cannot choose the churches to be reopened because it was all "planned with the Salafis and the security authorities so that when we go, there will be no problems." He confirmed the minister had himself suggested the names of the three churches to be reopened.
The "reconciliation" session was held in a tent by the Islamist imam Kerdassi, the main opponent of the reopening of the church, who also recently built a mosque facing the church. Next to the tent was another one hosting Muslim Brotherhood and Salafi sheikhs, among them the renowned Salafi sheikh Hassan and over 3000 guests all chanting "Islamic, Islamic."
The session lasted for 5-hour, and was attended by sheikhs, imams, priests, lawyers and members of the Muslim Brotherhood, in which the Muslims insisted the church was a factory and the Christians explained that it was a church, although it has no dome or bell, and has been used as a place for worship and has a consecrated alter [sic].
The Coptic diocese bought the building, which used to be a clothes factory, in 2004 and used it for worship until November 22, 2008, when it was closed by State Security after nearly 3000 Muslims surrounded the church, pelting it with stones and terrorizing thousands of parishioners inside.
"The atmosphere of the meeting was belligerent," said attorney Ashraf Edward, "and one of the sheikhs threatened us by saying that should the church be opened without their permission it would end up like the church in Soul which was demolished by Muslims." He said the church was offered a larger place to relocate to away from the Muslim families as the imams said. "They presented us with a petition from the Muslim families against the opening of the church."
The representative of the Ministry of Endowment suggested the church be closed until permission is granted for its opening from the relevant authorities, to which all sides agreed.
At the end of the session a joint statement was read by the Imam Kerdassi, which said "It was decided to close the place and no Christian prayers is to take place there until permission is granted. If there is permission then we should respect it and since there is no permit at present then all parties agreed to close the place permanently, no one to approach it and no one of us to harm it until the authorities have issued a ruling. We all have to love each other, so that Egypt would remain strong and secure as Allah wanted it to be."
The Muslims demanded that should the church be reopened, it should be without cross and dome.
Coptic attorney Dr. Ihab Ramzy said the army and the police did not participate in the "reconciliation" meeting. "This shows the government is ignoring the problem. Am I there to get the Salafis' permission to open the church? If they say no, does this mean I should not open the church?"
http://www.aina.org/news/20110524023731.htm
"The Muslims demanded that should the church be reopened, it should be without cross and dome." In accord with classic dhimmi laws.
Will Obama speak about this, or continue to pretend that Muslims are behaving justly toward Christians in the brave new democratic Egypt?
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Did you hear that scumbag obama's speech? He denied this was going on and didnt even mention it.
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Did you hear that scumbag obama's speech? He denied this was going on and didnt even mention it.
It's not like the Coptic Christians (the true Egyptians) were in Egypt long before the imperialist Arab invaders conquered them or anything. How dare they try to live in their rightful country. ::)
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Paddy O'Bama only mentioned that one idiot in the square gave a unity slogan, yet never mentioned the killings, etc.
He is a liar of the worst order.
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Paddy O'Bama only mentioned that one idiot in the square gave a unity slogan, yet never mentioned the killings, etc.
He is a liar of the worst order.
It's all about DEMOCRACY, yo! Never mind that it took the Muslim Brotherhood all of three days to hijack the entire revolution and remove anyone involved in starting it. Hahaha El Baradei!
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Bf check out my thread on lybia today. I'll bump it.
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Egypt to reopen Gaza border crossing, raising Israeli concerns
By Ernesto Londoño and Joel Greenberg, Wednesday, May 25, 2:15 PM
www.washingtonpost.com
CAIRO — Egypt will permanently open its border crossing with the Gaza Strip this weekend, the government announced Wednesday, suggesting that military leaders are being swayed by growing sentiment here in favor of distancing the country from Israel.
Opening the Rafah crossing, the only official entry point outside Israel into the Palestinian territory, would ease the blockade imposed after the militant group Hamas took control of the strip in 2007.
A report by Egypt’s state-run Middle East News Agency said the move was being adopted to “end the status of the Palestinian division and achieve national reconciliation.”
The report said the border would reopen Saturday but provided no other details.
Israel warned that fully reopening the crossing could allow Hamas to build up its arsenal and create a dangerous situation. An Israeli government official urged Egypt to continue blocking arms shipments to Hamas.
Bowing to Israeli concerns and worried about a spillover of Islamic militant activity into Egypt, the Egyptian government has kept the Rafah crossing closed or partially closed in the years since Hamas took control of the Gaza Strip. Until last year, Egypt had opened the crossing periodically for a few days at a time every several weeks for a limited number of people, mostly medical cases and students.
In the past year, however, the crossing has been opened for limited passage since a deadly Israeli naval raid on a Turkish aid flotilla to Gaza in May 2010 drew attention to the Israeli and Egyptian border closures. Israel was compelled to ease its Gaza blockade under international pressure after the flotilla raid.
Since the Egyptian revolution that ousted President Hosni Mubarak in February, no more than 300 Palestinians a day were allowed to leave Gaza. Now that limit will be lifted, and other restrictions will be eased, officials said.
Ghazi Hamad, the deputy foreign minister of the Hamas government in Gaza, said in a telephone interview that Egypt linked opening the border to the recent reconciliation pact between Hamas and Fatah, the mainstream Palestinian faction that is dominant in the West Bank. Now that the pact has been signed, Egypt is following through with its commitment, he said.
Hamad said: “This is a very positive step. We appreciate the efforts from the Egyptian side to facilitate the travel of people. It will have a very good impact on the situation in Gaza. I hope this will be implemented honestly and can be done in such a way that people will feel a new era in the Gaza Strip.”
Egyptian Foreign Minister Nabil Elaraby announced a day after the reconciliation deal last month that his country would soon take steps to “ease the blockade on Gaza,” describing his country’s involvement in it as “shameful.”
Hamad said Wednesday: “The reconciliation agreement encouraged the Egyptians to take more positive steps. They told us before that if there is a reconciliation agreement between Hamas and Fatah, the situation at the crossing will completely change.”
Israel keeps its crossings to Gaza mostly closed to passage of Palestinians, except for a limited number of people with permits for medical treatment at Israeli hospitals or for business purposes.
Egypt’s interim military leaders have been under pressure to open the border to ease the movement of people, food and humanitarian aid to the strip.
Israel opposes an open border, fearing that Hamas fighters could use it to smuggle in rockets and other weapons for attacks against Israel. Up to now, Hamas has used smuggling tunnels, rather than the border crossing, to bring weapons into Gaza.
Egypt is one of the few Arab states that maintain formal diplomatic ties with Israel, a relationship Mubarak wrestled with during his three decades in power.
The two countries fought a brutal war in 1973 that many Egyptians still remember bitterly.
In recent weeks, Egyptian protesters have demonstrated outside the Israeli Embassy in Cairo to protest attacks on the Gaza Strip and Israeli policies.
Hundreds of demonstrators were wounded earlier this month when Egyptian riot police fired tear gas and bullets to disperse demonstrators during a rally to decry the 1948 founding of Israel, a date Palestinians refer to as “nakba,” or catastrophe.
More than 185 demonstrators were detained for alleged vandalism and attacks on police, Egyptian authorities said.
In Israel, a government official who spoke on condition of anonymity said: “Israel has no problem with civilian goods getting into the Gaza Strip. Our focus is on preventing Hamas from building up its very deadly terrorist military machine. In the past they have succeeded in building a formidable capability despite Egyptian efforts to prevent that from happening.”
The official warned that if Egypt ceased those efforts, “the situation would be so much more dangerous.” Israel hopes that “Egypt will continue to be steadfast in trying to prevent arms shipments to Hamas,” the official said, adding: “We’ve got direct dialogue with the Egyptians on these issues, and we hope that we’ve got a common interest in preventing deadly weapons reaching extremists.”
Greenberg reported from Jerusalem.
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Egyptian Court Yanks Citizenship of Christian Man Living in U.S. For “Insulting Islam” and Being Pro-Israel
(Al-Masry) — The Administrative Judicial Court on Sunday ordered the withdrawal of Egyptian nationality from Morris Sadek, a Coptic Christian lawyer living in the United States, and banned him from entering the country.
The action was taken against Sadek for a number of alleged crimes, including calls for war against Egypt.
A lawyer leading the case against Sadek said he had insulted Islam, showed allegiance to Judaism, called for the killing of Arabs and requested the United States and Israel to interfere in Egypt’s domestic affairs.
“I will not appeal the verdict,” Sadek said. “I will use it to show the world how the Islamists control the Egyptian judiciary.”
http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/node/447614
Egypt continues to circle the drain.
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Iran all over again.
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Iran all over again.
Bullshit. It's democracy, man!
Arab Spring: Top Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood Leader Vows to Apply Sharia Law if Elected, Says Dhimmis Will Love It
(Al-Masry) — The Muslim Brotherhood would apply Islamic sharia if it came to power, said leading Brotherhood figure Sobhi Saleh, adding that sharia protects non-Muslim citizens.
“Terms like civil or secular state are misleading,” he said. “Islamic sharia is the best system for Muslims and non-Muslims.”
Saleh apologized for his earlier statements that the Muslim Brotherhood could not recognize liberals or communists as Muslims, and that he disapproved of Muslims marrying outside the group.
http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/node/451495
Nothing like Iran! ::)
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Like this is a surprise?
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..Christians worry Egypt being hijacked by Islamists
By Sami Aboudi | Reuters – Thu, 26 May, 2011
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/christians-worry-egypt-being-hijacked-islamists-031322380.html
CAIRO (Reuters) - Last January, Nazih Moussa Gerges locked up his downtown Cairo law office and joined hundreds of thousands of fellow Egyptians to demand that President Hosni Mubarak step down.
The 33-year-old Christian lawyer was back on the streets this month to press military rulers who took over after Mubarak stepped down to end a spate of sectarian attacks that have killed at least 28 people and left many afraid.
Those who camped out in Tahrir Square side by side with Muslims to call for national renewal now fear their struggle is being hijacked by ultra-conservative Salafist Islamists with no one to stop them.
"We did not risk our lives to bring Mubarak down in order to have him replaced by Salafists," Gerges said. "We want an Egypt that will be an example of democracy and freedom for the whole world."
Sectarian tensions are not new to Egypt, where Christians make up around 10 percent of the population of 80 million. But the frequency and intensity of clashes have increased since Mubarak's overthrow.
Many blame a broader weakening of law and order that began as the protests against Mubarak gathered pace and police deserted the streets. Authorities are trying to rebuild security forces to deal with increased lawlessness following mass jail breakouts.
Egypt's military rulers have vowed to punish those behind sectarian clashes, banned demonstrations outside places of worship and promised to give Christians equal rights.
But Christians say no one has been tried yet for the burning of a church in Helwan, south of Cairo, in March or for violence in the Cairo suburb of Imbaba on May 7 that left 15 people dead. At least 13 died in clashes after the Helwan incident.
The army has said 190 people will face trial over the Imbaba clashes, which began when a group of Salafists demanded to look inside a church where they suspected a female convert to Islam was being held against her will.
IRON FIST?
When Christians gathered to worship in the eastern Cairo district of Ain Shams last week, they said Salafists and other local Muslims blocked access to the church and pelted them with cinder blocks.
The Christians said they had to abandon their attempt after security forces arrested eight of them.
"The General has said he will strike with an iron fist. Where is the iron fist?" said Marcelino Youssef, a spokesman for a Christian youth group that has been leading protests against sectarian attacks. He was referring to Field Marshal Mohamed Hussein Tantawi, who heads Egypt's ruling military council.
For some Egyptians, including Christians, alarm over the recent inter-faith violence may be overdone. They say revolutions are often accompanied by a spike in violence that can carry sectarian undertones.
"If there are events which could lead to clashes every now and then, this may happen," said Milad Hanna, a prominent Christian thinker. "They (Muslims) are normal people, not angels."
Some blame leaders of Egypt's Coptic church for cultivating fear of Muslims, in turn stoking sectarian tension by making the Christian community more defensive.
"The Church has promoted a fear of Muslims, arguing that the Egyptian people lack awareness and that democracy will not work in our context," Muslim political scientist Amr Shobaki wrote in a column in newspaper al-Masry al-Youm on May 14.
DISCRIMINATION
The sectarian clashes have prompted many Christians to vent pent-up grievances at perceived discrimination since the 1970s.
Gerges recalls bitterly the time when he applied to join the prosecutor's office in southern Cairo soon after graduating from Ain Shams University with distinction.
He said he was told by the recruiting official that his qualifications made him the ideal candidate.
"Then he looked at my family name and shook his head."
For Gerges, the message was clear: a Muslim gets priority over a Christian when it comes to government jobs.
Egyptian Christians say discrimination against them starts in school.
"Coptic history has been removed" from textbooks, said Imbaba priest Sarabamon Abdo Rizeq. "How is a Muslim going to love me if he doesn't know anything about my Christianity?"
At a sit-in outside state TV headquarters by the Nile in central Cairo, protesters posted a list of what they called "The Copts' Demands."
They included giving Christians equal access to government jobs, recognizing Egypt's Coptic history by making it part of the school curriculum, and easing restrictions on the construction of churches.
Christians complain that under laws inherited from Ottoman rule, Copts are required to obtain special permits from the head of state to build or repair a church.
"Our demands are actually basic rights," said Malak Maher, 33, one of the protesters. "We want equality."
(Additional reporting by Mohammed Zaki; Editing by Tom Pfeiffer and Mark Trevelyan)
..
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Cue andreisdaman to tell us how awesome Egypt is now and that Obama is the fucking MAN for leading this "Arab spring"! Fucking retard. ::)
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Egypt permanently opens Gaza border crossing (Buckle up Israel)
yahoo ^ | 5/28/2011 | By IBRAHIM BARZAK, Associated Press
Posted on May 28, 2011 9:47:56 AM EDT by tobyhill
Egypt lifted a four-year-old blockade on the Gaza Strip's main link to the outside world Saturday, bringing relief to the crowded territory's 1.5 million Palestinians but deepening a rift with Israel since the ouster of President Hosni Mubarak earlier this year.
The Egyptian move will allow thousands of Gazans to move freely in and out of the area — heightening Israeli fears that militants and weapons could easily reach its doorstep.
Israel and Egypt imposed the blockade after the Islamic militant Hamas seized control of Gaza in June 2007. The closure, which also included tight Israeli restrictions at its cargo crossings with Gaza and a naval blockade, was meant to weaken Hamas, but it also fueled an economic crisis in the densely populated territory.
Hundreds of Gazans gathered early Saturday as the first bus load of passengers crossed the border at 9 a.m. Two Egyptian officers stood guard next to a large Egyptian flag atop the border gate as the vehicle rumbled through.
Rami Arafat, 52, was among the earliest arrivals. He said he hoped to catch a flight out of Cairo on Sunday to Algeria for his daughter's wedding.
"All we need is to travel like humans, be treated with dignity, and feel like any other citizens of the world who can travel in and out freely," Arafat said. He said he believed the relaxing of travel restrictions "will guarantee more support from all Arabs and Palestinians for the new Egyptian regime."
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
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Egyptian crowd sets Cairo police station ablaze (Welcome to "Democracy")
reuters ^ | 6/4/2011 | Reuters
Posted on June 4, 2011 6:54:47 AM EDT by tobyhill
Egyptians protesting the death of a 40-year old Egyptian driver who they say was killed in police custody set a police station in central Cairo on fire, witnesses and security sources said on Friday.
Mohamed Said, 40 years old, clashed with a police officer outside a downtown Cairo station and was taken inside with 13 other mini-bus drivers for parking violations.
Said died later on Friday, witnesses and security sources said. It is not clear what caused his death.
Said's family accused police of torturing him and gathered around the station in protest, asking to see the body. The crowd of about 200, primarily family members and other drivers, who have a history of clashing with police officers for holding invalid licences, then broke into the station and set it ablaze.
(Excerpt) Read more at af.reuters.com ...
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Cue andreisdaman to tell us how awesome Egypt is now and that Obama is the fucking MAN for leading this "Arab spring"! Fucking retard. ::)
LOL!! The Summer of Erecting Democracies in the Arabian World!!!
Jesus. Everything this administration touches turns to shit.
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LOL!! The Summer of Erecting Democracies in the Arabian World!!!
Jesus. Everything this administration touches turns to shit.
B-b-b-but, Boehner said Obama did an awesome job! Doesn't that mean anything to you? ::)
Speaking of Egypt's progress:
Egypt: Protesters In Tahrir Square Demand Government Implement Sharia Law, Want Tourists To “Respect” Islam
(Al-Masry) — Around 300 individuals gathered in Tahrir Square on Friday, chanting “Islamist, Islamist,” and calling for the implementation of Sharia Law in Egypt. Protesters also raised objections regarding tourists who “violate the people’s traditions,” and demanded closer scrutiny of those who receive permission to enter the country for tourism purposes.
The protesters, who held the banner of the “Development and Renaissance Party”, refused a civil state and attacked secularism, arguing that it does not suit the Egyptian people. They stressed that Egypt is a strictly Islamic country. A number of protesters had set up a stage at the same spot that Tahrir revolutionaries used to spread their message. A number of passers-by and street vendors gathered around the group.
The protesters called for tourism that respects cultural norms, saying Gulf tourists visit to violate Egyptian women. Foreign tourists who do not respect the Islamic traditions should also be more strictly regulated, they said.
Female Egyptian Journalist Lara Loganed by Freedom-Loving Arab Spring Mob
(RIA Novosti) — A female Egyptian journalist was attacked while covering a demonstration on Cairo’s central Tahrir Square demanding an immediate trial for ousted Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, local media reported.
The journalist was interviewing participants in Friday’s rally when a quarrel broke out between them, media reports said, quoting the head of the Cairo security department.
The attackers had torn the journalist’s clothes to pieces before she managed to call police, the reports said.
A police officer who arrived at the site pulled the journalist, who was about to lose her consciousness, out of the crowd and called her a taxi, but he was then attacked himself by the demonstrators, who stole his pistol and radio set.
A local imam reportedly took the police officer to hospital, where doctors described his condition as grave.
http://www.en.rian.ru/world/20110604/164432001.html
Hahaha.
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B-b-b-but, Boehner said Obama did an awesome job! Doesn't that mean anything to you? ::)
Speaking of Egypt's progress:
Egypt: Protesters In Tahrir Square Demand Government Implement Sharia Law, Want Tourists To “Respect” Islam
(Al-Masry) — Around 300 individuals gathered in Tahrir Square on Friday, chanting “Islamist, Islamist,” and calling for the implementation of Sharia Law in Egypt. Protesters also raised objections regarding tourists who “violate the people’s traditions,” and demanded closer scrutiny of those who receive permission to enter the country for tourism purposes.
The protesters, who held the banner of the “Development and Renaissance Party”, refused a civil state and attacked secularism, arguing that it does not suit the Egyptian people. They stressed that Egypt is a strictly Islamic country. A number of protesters had set up a stage at the same spot that Tahrir revolutionaries used to spread their message. A number of passers-by and street vendors gathered around the group.
The protesters called for tourism that respects cultural norms, saying Gulf tourists visit to violate Egyptian women. Foreign tourists who do not respect the Islamic traditions should also be more strictly regulated, they said.
Female Egyptian Journalist Lara Loganed by Freedom-Loving Arab Spring Mob
(RIA Novosti) — A female Egyptian journalist was attacked while covering a demonstration on Cairo’s central Tahrir Square demanding an immediate trial for ousted Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, local media reported.
The journalist was interviewing participants in Friday’s rally when a quarrel broke out between them, media reports said, quoting the head of the Cairo security department.
The attackers had torn the journalist’s clothes to pieces before she managed to call police, the reports said.
A police officer who arrived at the site pulled the journalist, who was about to lose her consciousness, out of the crowd and called her a taxi, but he was then attacked himself by the demonstrators, who stole his pistol and radio set.
A local imam reportedly took the police officer to hospital, where doctors described his condition as grave.
http://www.en.rian.ru/world/20110604/164432001.html
Hahaha.
Isn't being an idiot tiring for you???...I really think your mind hurts from being so stupid
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Obama Inspired Ship to Join IHH Gaza Flotilla
Israel National News ^ | June 3, 1011 | Gavriel Queenann
Posted on June 4, 2011 6:44:21 AM EDT by GiovannaNicoletta
A ship flying US colors and carrying 34 passengers is set to joint this year's Gaza-bound, IHH-sponsored “Freedom Flotilla 2” in June, the New York Times reported.
snip
This year's American vessel, named The Audacity of Hope after US President Barack Obama’s best-selling book, is being organized by an American group called “US Boat to Gaza.”
Obama links to the Audacity do not end there, however. Prof. Rashid Khalidi, director of the Middle East Institute at Columbia University’s School of International and Public Affairs, and a friend from Obama’s time in Chicago, is among the supporters of an appeal launched by the group last week.
(Excerpt) Read more at israelnationalnews.com ...
TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Israel; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Click to Add Topi
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As Islamists Flex Muscle, Egypt's Christians Despair
Assyrian International News Agency ^ | 6/12/11
QENA, Egypt -- Five weeks after the fall of the Egyptian regime, Ayman Anwar Mitri's apartment was torched. When he showed up to investigate, he was bundled inside by bearded Islamists.
Mr. Mitri is a member of the Christian Coptic minority that accounts for one-tenth of the country's 83 million people. The Islamists accused him of having rented the apartment--by then unoccupied--to loose Muslim women.
Inside the burnt apartment, they beat him with the charred remains of his furniture. Then, one of them produced a box cutter and performed what he considered an appropriate punishment under Islam: He amputated Mr. Mitri's right ear.
"When they were beating me, they kept saying: 'We won't leave any Christians in this country,'" Mr. Mitri recalled in a recent interview, two months after the March attack. Blood dripped through a plastic tube from his unhealed wound to a plastic container. "Here, there is a war against the Copts," he said.
His attackers, who were never arrested or prosecuted, follow the ultrafundamentalist Salafi strain of Islam that promotes an austere, Saudi-inspired worldview. Before President Hosni Mubarak was toppled on Feb. 11, the Salafis mostly confined themselves to preaching. Since then, they've entered the political arena, drawing crowds and swaying government decisions. Salafi militants also have blocked roads, burned churches and killed Copts.
The Salafi vigilantes who brutalized Mr. Mitri later ignited a bigger controversy that is still playing out here in Qena, an upper Nile governorate of three million people--almost one-third of them Copts. In April, Egypt's new government appointed a Christian to be Qena's new governor, replacing another Christian who had held the post under Mr. Mubarak. The Salafis responded by demanding a Muslim governor and organizing mass protests, showcasing the movement's new political influence.
The crisis in Qena, still not fully resolved, raises.......
(Excerpt) Read more at aina.org ...
________________________ _______________________-
Great fucking job andre!
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As Islamists Flex Muscle, Egypt's Christians Despair
Assyrian International News Agency ^ | 6/12/11
QENA, Egypt -- Five weeks after the fall of the Egyptian regime, Ayman Anwar Mitri's apartment was torched. When he showed up to investigate, he was bundled inside by bearded Islamists.
Mr. Mitri is a member of the Christian Coptic minority that accounts for one-tenth of the country's 83 million people. The Islamists accused him of having rented the apartment--by then unoccupied--to loose Muslim women.
Inside the burnt apartment, they beat him with the charred remains of his furniture. Then, one of them produced a box cutter and performed what he considered an appropriate punishment under Islam: He amputated Mr. Mitri's right ear.
"When they were beating me, they kept saying: 'We won't leave any Christians in this country,'" Mr. Mitri recalled in a recent interview, two months after the March attack. Blood dripped through a plastic tube from his unhealed wound to a plastic container. "Here, there is a war against the Copts," he said.
His attackers, who were never arrested or prosecuted, follow the ultrafundamentalist Salafi strain of Islam that promotes an austere, Saudi-inspired worldview. Before President Hosni Mubarak was toppled on Feb. 11, the Salafis mostly confined themselves to preaching. Since then, they've entered the political arena, drawing crowds and swaying government decisions. Salafi militants also have blocked roads, burned churches and killed Copts.
The Salafi vigilantes who brutalized Mr. Mitri later ignited a bigger controversy that is still playing out here in Qena, an upper Nile governorate of three million people--almost one-third of them Copts. In April, Egypt's new government appointed a Christian to be Qena's new governor, replacing another Christian who had held the post under Mr. Mubarak. The Salafis responded by demanding a Muslim governor and organizing mass protests, showcasing the movement's new political influence.
The crisis in Qena, still not fully resolved, raises.......
(Excerpt) Read more at aina.org ...
________________________ _______________________-
Great fucking job andre!
Why would andre care? Liberals will tell you that it's OK to kill Christians. Something about some Crusades started after 100+ years of imperialist Arab Muslims terrorizing Christians across the Middle East or some shit 1,000 years ago.
Lock and load, Muslims. You can do no wrong. Kill at will, get rewarded with land, Sharia and more concessions!
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you're over the top again as usual dickface.......no one I know of is condoning Islamic violence..maybe in those countries over there, but not here that I know of.....
again..that whole thing is Mubarak's fault for not liberalizing for the thirty years he was in power......
you can blame Obama all you want but thats the reality...that whole revolution started and caught Obama and the rest of the world unaware.....
but in any country when democracy comes in, there is violence..sort of a payback or retribution by certain groups against certain others.....
this happened Russia and the Iron Curtain as well.....its sad but normal
It also happened in Iraq when the Sunnis and Shiites started killing each other
of course you will blame those events on Obama too right???
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Another liberal with blood on their hands.
Arab Muslim imperialist = OK.
American imperialist = the DEVIL!
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Another liberal with blood on their hands.
Arab Muslim imperialist = OK.
American imperialist = the DEVIL!
I will take the fact that you refused to address my point, which you usually do when I am kicking your ass and point out something substantial, as a tacit admission that I am right in terms of Mubarak not liberalizing when he had the chance, and the consequences which follow when democracies emerge from such societies.....
THANKS
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I will take the fact that you refused to address my point, which you usually do when I am kicking your ass and point out something substantial, as a tacit admission that I am right in terms of Mubarak not liberalizing when he had the chance, and the consequences which follow when democracies emerge from such societies.....
THANKS
What point? That you actually think I would hold Obama responsible for the Cold War or dipshit Muslims killing each other in Iraq? Brilliant question, slick! ::)
You thinking it's Mubarak's fault for not liberalizing shows just how utterly lacking your knowledge of that region and Islam is. Protip: Mubarak was the only thing keeping the Islamists out of power.
Congrats, Muslim Brotherhood! Handed one of the strongest countries in the Muslim world by the God-King Obama! Hooray for Sharia!
Egypt: Cleric Explains It Is Ok To Take Non-Muslim Women And Children As Slaves. . . As Well As Take Women As Sex Slaves
Fuck, YEAH! Bring on that Muslim Brotherhood controlled Egypt! Islam is so progressive and tolerant! Christians and Jews = EVIL!
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Read that on free republic. Disgusting.
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What point? That you actually think I would hold Obama responsible for the Cold War or dipshit Muslims killing each other in Iraq? Brilliant question, slick! ::)
You thinking it's Mubarak's fault for not liberalizing shows just how utterly lacking your knowledge of that region and Islam is. Protip: Mubarak was the only thing keeping the Islamists out of power.
Congrats, Muslim Brotherhood! Handed one of the strongest countries in the Muslim world by the God-King Obama! Hooray for Sharia!
you're hysterical again...calm down...go get your psych medications..WOWWWWW!!!!!!..you are totally fucking clueless and out of it
Egypt: Cleric Explains It Is Ok To Take Non-Muslim Women And Children As Slaves. . . As Well As Take Women As Sex Slaves
Fuck, YEAH! Bring on that Muslim Brotherhood controlled Egypt! Islam is so progressive and tolerant! Christians and Jews = EVIL!
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Hey Andre - since Obama blames bush so much for everything - if everything or anything turns around does bush get the credit?
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Hey Andre - since Obama blames bush so much for everything - if everything or anything turns around does bush get the credit?
Bush gets blamed for Iraq. Why shouldn't Obama get blamed for setting the Middle East back decades in the span of 3 months?
Obama has done everything the Islamofascists have asked of him.
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Bush gets blamed for Iraq. Why shouldn't Obama get blamed for setting the Middle East back decades in the span of 3 months?
Obama has done everything the Islamofascists have asked of him.
Amazing how obama has barely said a peep about Syria tegus waging war in lybia. WTF?
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Amazing how obama has barely said a peep about Syria tegus waging war in lybia. WTF?
The Syrians are massacring people left and right, shelling entire towns and yet Obama and the rest of the world stay completely silent. It's beyond embarrassing at this point. Hypocrites through and through.
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New Egypt? 7,000 civilians jailed since Mubarak fell
By Mohannad Sabry | McClatchy Newspapers
CAIRO — Egypt's military rulers told human rights advocates Monday that at least 7,000 civilians have been sentenced to prison terms by military courts since Hosni Mubarak was ousted — an astoundingly high number likely to fuel debate over how much the revolution has changed the country.
Advocates said the military promised to review the cases and vacate any improper guilty verdicts and commute the sentences. But the advocates voiced skepticism and demanded more information about civilians in military custody.
"This is not the first time they've promised," said Mona Seif, a member of a rights group called No Military Trials that met with the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces, Egypt's ruling body. "We were offered no guarantees whatsoever."
The use of military courts to try people who've been detained in anti-government protests in recent months is highly charged here. One of the complaints against Mubarak's regime was that it silenced dissidents by quickly prosecuting them in military courts. The caretaker government that took over after Mubarak's resignation has done little to alter the practice, however.
Seif said the military council told her group that 7,000 civilians had been tried in military courts since Mubarak resigned Feb. 11 and other cases were pending. But the council offered no details, Seif said. "We asked the council to provide the exact number and the names of any civilian held by military police," she said.
Before Monday's meeting, No Military Trials had demanded a halt to military trials of civilians, unless violations occur in military zones or facilities. It also asked that the government guarantee the security of peaceful gatherings and protests and release five oil field workers who were detained during a recent strike.
On Monday, the group announced a hotline to report cases of military violations, detentions or abuse.
Heba Morayef, a Cairo representative for Human Rights Watch who met with the council last week, said the military defended its use of military courts in civilian cases because of the heightened level of crime. She said it was hard to know the accuracy of the 7,000 figure the government cited.
"It includes protesters, activists, thugs, ordinary criminals and innocent passers-by," she said. "They all received jail sentences."
The role of the military in arresting political dissidents and peaceful protesters became a major topic after military police stormed into Tahrir Square on March 9, nearly a month after Mubarak's resignation, and arrested 173 protesters who'd gathered there, including 17 women; military courts subsequently sentenced 123 of them to three to five years in prison.
After two months of protests, the military eventually agreed to retry the 123 and they all were released in May.
But complaints about the military's use of emergency laws that have been in effect since the 1981 assassination of President Anwar Sadat continue.
Last week, a conference on political prisoners hosted by the Egyptian Lawyers' Syndicate and sponsored by the General Human Rights Committee and the Political Prisoners Rights Committee demanded the unconditional pardon and release of all political prisoners jailed during Mubarak's three-decade reign.
"Political prisoners are still suffering injustice and discrimination after the January 25 revolution," said Mamdouh Ismaiel, a member of the lawyers' syndicate's board of directors.
"Some activists were jailed in 1992 after suffering illegitimate and unfair military prosecutions," he said. "They are still suffering behind bars, just as they did under the former regime."
(Sabry is a McClatchy special correspondent.)
MORE FROM MCCLATCHY
Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/06/13/115722/egypt-military-7000-civilians.html#ixzz1PFvyEZGX
________________________ __________
Andre - FAIL
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Egypt Debt Buoyed by Obama Guarantee for $1 Billion Eurobonds: Arab Credit [ W T F !!! ]
San Francisco Chronicle ^ | June 14 2011 | By Alaa Shahine and Ahmed A Namatall
________________________ ________________________ _
President Barack Obama's guarantee on $1 billion of Egyptian Eurobonds is poised to reduce the country's borrowing costs, helping the transition to democracy after six decades of autocratic rule.
The support that Obama pledged last month may cut yields on the five-year debt by 200 basis points, or the equivalent of $100 million, according to the median estimate of five fund managers surveyed by Bloomberg. Yields on Egypt's one-year bills jumped to the highest level since November 2008 following the uprising that ousted President Hosni Mubarak in February. The country last sold international debt in April 2010.
"The American backing is a complete game changer," Michael Cirami, who helps manage $12 billion in assets for Boston-based Eaton Vance Corp., said in a telephone interview. "There may be a spill-over effect that it's going to reduce the risk premium of their non-guaranteed debt and help them re-enter the market eventually on their own."
Obama is offering assistance for the planned Eurobond sale as the International Monetary Fund forecasts Egypt's economy may grow 1 percent this year, the slowest pace since 1992, and Moody's Investors Service says the country's public finances are "significantly" weaker than countries with similar credit ratings. The budget may post its biggest deficit in at least a decade in the fiscal year ending this month, hampering efforts to create jobs and reduce the poverty rate, reasons that sparked the anti-Mubarak revolt, according to the Finance Ministry.
(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...
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The Syrians are massacring people left and right, shelling entire towns and yet Obama and the rest of the world stay completely silent. It's beyond embarrassing at this point. Hypocrites through and through.
me thinks you are the hypocrite, dickface...I have asked you many times what you would do with the Syrian situation and have been met with silence each time.....you have no solution either..yet you come on here to criticize...
from now on please refrain from posting in these threads where serious discussion takes place...stick to the sex threads where you can continue to read all of Bay's homo threads :D
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ANDRE - OBAMA - FAIL
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Obama versus Osama: guess who the Egyptians prefer?
Posted By Colum Lynch Tuesday, June 21, 2011 - 9:47 AM Share
First the good news: U.S. President Barack Obama is more than twice as popular in Egypt as Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadenijad.
Now, the bad news: the American president's standing has never been worse in Egypt, plummeting since 2008, when he received a 25 percent favorability rating, to 12 percent in 2011. Even Osama Bin Laden, the late al Qaeda leader, was more popular this year, with a 21 percent favorability ranking. The Iranian leader fared worse, dropping from 21 percent favorability rating in 2008 to a miserable 5 percent.
The findings are drawn from a public poll of Egyptian views in the aftermath of the public uprising that brought about the resignation of Egypt's fallen leader Hosni Mubarak. The poll was commissioned by the International Peace Institute, a New York-based think tank with close ties to the United Nations and Arab governments.
The poll seeks to capture the mood of the country in the lead up to the Egypt's first post-Mubarak election, and to handicap the presidential campaign. It shows that Egyptians currently fret over issues like the economy, stability, and government corruption more than they worry about the course of the country's democratic transition.
According to the poll, conducted by Charney Research and based on interviews with 800 Egyptians, Amr Moussa, the outgoing Arab League chief, has emerged as an early frontrunner. Thirty-two percent of respondents say they would vote for Moussa, who once served as Mubarak's foreign minister.
Essam Sharraf, an engineering professor who is serving as the country's interim prime minister, finished second with 16 percent of votes ( though his favorability ranking is higher than Moussa's). And Mohammed Tantawi, the army chief, finished third with 8 percent of those questioned saying they would vote for him. Mohammed El Baradei, the former head of the International Atomic Energy Agency who emerged from retirement to serve as Egypt's best known pro-democracy advocate, finished seventh, with only 2 percent of respondents pledging to vote for him.
The poll shows that the Egyptian army, which refused orders to fire on public demonstrators during the country's popular uprising, remains "extremely popular" with 90 percent of Egyptian respondents expressing a favorable view. Egypt's various secular parties also did well, garning 25 precent of respondents' votes, while Islamist parties gained 19 percent. The best-known political parties, the New Wafd Party and the Muslim Brotherhood, received respectively 40 percent and 31 percent favorability ratings. The Brotherhood's unfavorability rating, at 29 percent, was 10 points higher.
"The military right now is riding a wave of popularity because it is seen as playing two key roles [in Egypt's popular revolution]," Craig Charney, the pollster, told Turtle Bay. "It delivered the coup de grace to Mubarak and did it in a way that maintained a substantial degree of stability."
Charney said that the findings also demonstrated that fears of a religious take over by Islamists are overblown. "The much feared green-tide just isn't there, with the Muslim Brotherhood receiving 12 percent while the Salafists for all their sound and fury came away with only 4 percent," Charney said.
While an exiled Egyptian national, Ayman al Zawahiri, has been selected as the new leader of Al Qaeda, the poll suggested that the terror organization would have been better at influencing events in Egypt under the leadership of their late Saudi leader, Osama Bin laden, who was killed by elite U.S. commandos in Pakistan.
According to the poll, bin Laden's favorability ratings rose from 18 percent of those questioned in 2008 to 21 percent in 2011. In contrast, Zawahiri scored a favorability rating of only 11 percent this year.
Charney said that while other polls have found somewhat higher support for President Obama's response to the Egyptian uprising, he has suffered from a generally dim view of American policy throughout the region.
"Despite President Obama's words and measures in support of Egypt's revolution, he only narrowly edges out the leaders of al Qaeda and Iran in popular regard there," Charney said in a statement. "But our findings do clearly show that Egyptians have little regard for the likes of al-Zawahiri and Ahmadinejad."
Follow me on Twitter @columlynch
http://turtlebay.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/06/21/obama_versus_osama_guess_who_the_egyptians_prefer
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Egypt: Mob Of 200 Muslims Torch 8 Christian Homes On Rumor Of Church Construction
(AINA) — A mob of nearly 200 Muslims torched eight Christian homes on Saturday morning in the Upper Egyptian village of Awlad Khalaf. The attack was initiated by a rumor that a house which is being built by Wahib Halim Attia will be turned into a church. Two Christians and one Muslim were injured, no fatalities were reported.
Wahib Halim Attia obtained a license to build a house in the village on a 95 square meter plot. The house grew to an area of 350 square meters but was still on agricultural land that he owns. This gave rise to the rumor that he intended to build a church instead.
Father Weesa Azmy, the priest at St. George Church in the neighboring village of Negou Madam East, said that someone went to the City Council in Dar es Salam and told them about the irregularities in the house construction, and Wahib was ordered to remove the excess by June 24. “Instead Wahib carried on with the construction, which angered the Muslims, who decided to play God and take the law into their own hands; they attacked the construction site and other Christian homes.”
According to Father Weesa, Muslims broke into the home of Ihab Tamer, who defended himself with a rifle. A Muslim who was there to help Ihab was injured by a bullet in his leg from Tamer’s rifle. The matter was explained and resolved with the family of that Muslim.
According to eyewitnesses the Muslims, mostly Salafists and some youngsters, looted and torched eight homes belonging to Wahib Halim Attia and his two brothers, his three cousins and two other Copts, including Ihab Tamer.
The police arrived three hours after the looting and torching had ended.
http://www.aina.org/news/20110625204733.htm
Egypt sure is turning out well!
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Egypt: Two Christian Girls Kidnapped And Forced To Convert To Islam
Cairo (AsiaNews) – Attacks against Copts and the abduction of young women continue in Upper Egypt. Last Saturday, in the village of Awlad Khalaf (Suhaj, Upper Egypt), hundreds of extremists set fire to Christian houses. Three people were injured. In Minya, two young Coptic women were abducted and forced to convert to Islam.
Anti-Christian violence has become a daily event in Upper Egypt, where police and the military often side with Muslims, sources told AsiaNews. In this under-policed area of the country, extremists are pushing Muslim civilians against Christians, using any pretext to destroy churches and homes.
. . . The power vacuum created by Mubarak’s fall has increased the number of abductions of Coptic teenagers and young women. Kidnapped at home or in the street, they are forced to convert and marry Muslim men.
The latest case involves two girls, 14-year-old Nacy and 16-year-old Christine, who disappeared on 12 June. Police found them days later, wearing a niqab but with on cross tattooed on their wrist.
Despite complaints by their family, the two teenagers are being kept in a mental hospital until the end of the investigation.
“The daily abduction and forced Islamisation of Coptic minors, conducted by Muslims funded by Saudi Arabia, has escalated to new levels after the 25 January Revolution,” said Coptic activist Mark Ebeid. It has also “greatly enraged the Copts. Everyone now fears they might not be able to stand any longer continuous Islamist provocations.”
http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Eight-houses-burnt-as-anti-Christian-violence-rises-in-Upper-Egypt-21953.html
Silence from the IslamoNazi lovers on the far left.
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Another ObamaFail.
Create chaos in the ME, drive the cost of oil through the roof, piss on an ally, and then be forced to release oil from the strategic reserve to combat the oil spike cauased as a result of the chaos you created. Nice.
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Obama to Resume Formal Contacts with Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood…
Weasel Zippers ^ | June 30,2011 | Staff
________________________ ________________________ _____________________
http://weaselzippers.us/2011/06/30/obama-to-resume-formal-contacts-with-egyptian-muslim-brotherhood
The United States has decided to resume formal contacts with the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, a senior U.S. official said on Wednesday, in a step that reflects the Islamist group’s growing political weight but that is almost certain to upset Israel and its U.S. backers.
“The political landscape in Egypt has changed, and is changing,” said the senior official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. “It is in our interests to engage with all of the parties that are competing for parliament or the presidency.”
The official sought to portray the shift as a subtle evolution rather than a dramatic change in Washington’s stance toward the Brotherhood, a group founded in 1928 that seeks to promote its conservative vision of Islam in society.
Under the previous policy, U.S. diplomats were allowed to deal with Brotherhood members of parliament who had won seats as independents — a diplomatic fiction that allowed them to keep lines of communication open.
Where U.S. diplomats previously dealt only with group members in their role as parliamentarians, a policy the official said had been in place since 2006, they will now deal directly with low-level Brotherhood party officials.
There is no U.S. legal prohibition against dealing with the Muslim Brotherhood itself, which long ago renounced violence as a means to achieve political change in Egypt and which is not regarded by Washington as a foreign terrorist organization.
But other sympathetic groups, such as Hamas, which identifies the Brotherhood as its spiritual guide, have not disavowed violence against the state of Israel.
The result has been a dilemma for the Obama administration.
Former officials and analysts said it has little choice but to engage the Brotherhood directly, given its political prominence after the February 11 downfall of former President Hosni Mubarak.
(Excerpt) Read more at weaselzippers.us ...
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I would have to rate this thread among the 100 best that 333... has devoted to Obama. Top one thousand at least.
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Breaking News 15:01 Bat Yam: Man, 60,_
www.JPost.com
Photo by: IDF IDF intel chief: Iran intervening in Egyptian elections
By LAHAV HARKOV
07/05/2011 13:11
Maj.-Gen. Kochavi says Islamic Republic to have explosive within two years, involved in ‘Nakba,’ ‘Naksa’ day border crossings.
Head of IDF Intelligence Maj.-Gen. Aviv Kochavi warned of Iranian intervention in Egyptian elections, speaking about the regime in a Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee meeting on Tuesday.
“Iraq is attempting to influence the political process in Egypt through efforts to connect with the Muslim Brotherhood,” Kochavi said.
RELATED:
Egypt president hopefuls see necessity of peace treaty
Kochavi also said that the Muslim Brotherhood is pressing for elections in Egypt to take place as soon as possible, because it is "the only group that's ready for elections."
"The international community is trying to delay the vote so more moderate groups can be better organized," he explained.
In the meantime, the Egyptian army is losing control of the Sinai, according to Kochavi.
The IDF intelligence chief also reported that Iran will be able to produce a nuclear explosive within two years.
"Iran recovered from the last wave of sanctions, even though the international consensus surprised them," Kochavi said.
He also emphasized Iranian influence throughout the region, including Turkey.
"We see closer relations between Iran and Turkey, which are focused mostly on trade, but also include military matters," he said.
“Iran is taking advantage of the upheaval in the Middle East to deepen their infiltration into states and organizations in the region,” he added, saying that the Islamic Republic is working in Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Bahrain, Sudan, Yemen, Iraq and Gaza.
"As Iran continues to work on its nuclear project, it works to transfer weapons and instill radical Islamic ideologies throughout the Middle East," Kochavi explained.
In addition "the potential for a cyber-attack is growing, and will eventually be a greater threat than Iran's other weapons."
Kochavi also said that Iran was active in planning the “Nakba” and “Naksa” day demonstrations and border crossings from Lebanon.
“Iran is making efforts to ensure that such events will continue,” he explained, "but they were disappointed that [the border crossings] were not more successful."
"Iran and Hezbollah are actively helping the Syrian regime in oppressing protesters," Kochavi said. "They are transferring means for dispersing demonstrations, knowledge and technical aid."
"They are motivated to help due to their deep fear of the demonstrations' implications, especially losing their partnership with the Syrians and a trickling of protests into their territory," he explained.
Kochavi estimated that Syrian President Bashar Assad's regime is stable, and will remain so as long as demonstrations do not reach Damascus and Aleppo.
"Assad understands that the way to end this situation is not only military, so he has turned to reform," he explained, adding that the reforms include subsidies and job creation.
"Most of the Syrian army remains loyal to Assad, especially high-ranking Alawite officers, who believe that quelling the demonstrations is a legitimate mission, which will prevent the Alawites from losing control of Syria," Kochavi said. "There is no major phenomenon of defection – only 20-30 officers and a few hundred soldiers have left the Syrian army."
However, Kochavi also said that "if Assad remains in power after the riots, his position will be much weaker."
The IDF intelligence chief stated that Syria continues to send weapons to Hezbollah in Lebanon, despite the demonstrations.
Kochavi also commented on the agreement between Fatah and Hamas, calling it "unstable."
"The agreement is only for show, it doesn't have any practical content," he explained. "Fatah continues to arrest Hamas men in the West Bank, albeit in smaller amounts."
"[Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud] Abbas wants to bolster [PA President Salam] Fayyad, because he is an asset internationally, but Hamas sees him as a red flag," Kochavi added.
"Abbas prefers that we restart negotiations, so he doesn't have to take Palestinian statehood to a vote in the UN," Kochavi said. "He'll negotiate if we accept his terms – '67 borders and a settlement construction freeze.
________________________ ________________________ _
Just what obama wanted from Day 1.
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Free Republic
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Egypt party leader: Holocaust is ‘a lie’
Wash. Times ^ | 7/5/11 | Ben Birnbaum
Posted on July 6, 2011 12:16:40 AM EDT by Nachum
BUDAPEST — A leader of Egypt’s top secular party says the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks were “made in the USA,” the Holocaust is “a lie” and Anne Frank’s memoir is “a fake” — comments sure to roil the post-revolution political debate in the Arab world’s most populous country. Ahmed Ezz El-Arab, a vice chairman of Egypt's Wafd Party, made the remarks in an exclusive interview with The Washington Times last week while in the Hungarian capital attending the Conference on Democracy and Human Rights. He denied that the Nazis killed 6 million Jews during World War II.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
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M-1A1 Abrams To Be Sold To The Muslim Brotherhood
Findalis ^
Posted on July 10, 2011 7:11:19 PM EDT by Amerisrael
On Friday President Barack Hussein Obama informed the US Congress that he intended to sell 125 M-1A1 Abrams Tanks to the Egyptian Military.
With the nation of Egypt in turmoil, and the fact that the Muslim Brotherhood is poised to assume total control over Egypt, why would any sane and rational person sell tanks (or any weapon) to a nation bent on not only destroying its neighbor, but who would turn the same weapons on the US to destroy it.
From the Jerusalem Post:
The US signaled last week that it plans to continue business as usual when it comes to arms sales to the Egyptian military, despite the recent revolution in Egypt and continued anti-government demonstrations there.
On Friday, the Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of a possible sale of 125 M1A1 Abrams tank to Egypt – the first large arms deal since Hosni Mubarak was ousted from power in February – including associated weapons, equipment, parts, training and logistical support at an estimated cost of just over $1.3 billion.
If approved, the deal would increase the number of Abrams tanks in Egypt from around 1,000 to 1,130.
According to the notification to Congress, Egypt would receive 125 tanks, parts of which would be produced in Egypt, as well as M256 Armament Systems, M2 .50 caliber machine guns, 7.62mm machine guns, spare parts, maintenance, support equipment, personnel training and other related elements of logistics and program support.
The Pentagon told Congress – which has 30 days to object to the deal – that the sale of the tanks would “contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a friendly country that has been and continues to be an important force for political stability and economic progress in the Middle East.”
The sale would “provide Egypt with a modern tank fleet, enhancing its capability to meet current and future threats,” the Pentagon further stated.
News of the deal raised eyebrows in Israel, which has carefully watched arms sales to Egypt ever since Cairo began to receive annual military aid of some $1.3b. from the United States following the peace treaty the two neighbors signed in 1979.
Israel has in the past lobbied Congress against specific arms deals to Egypt. In the past few years, Egypt has purchased 24 F-16 fighter jets, Hellfire missiles, Harpoon antiship missiles, TOW anti-tank missiles, Chinook transport helicopters and Apache attack helicopters.
Israel is concerned that Egypt might take a radical shift in elections expected to be held in the fall and might once again turn into an enemy state, depending on the identity of the new president and the number of seats the Muslim Brotherhood wins in parliament.
The IDF has taken a cautious approach to the developments in Egypt, with Chief of General Staff Lt.-Gen. Benny Gantz choosing a long-term plan formulated by the Planning Directorate, under which the army would grow over a number of years and not launch an immediate procurement plan to counter the possible threat evolving in the South.
Gantz’s thinking is based on the assumption that any war with Egypt would not take place any time soon, and that an immediate procurement plan announced by the IDF could be detrimental and increase tension between the countries. The signs point to Egypt attacking Israel within the next 6 months (sooner if they can). The addition of more M-1A1 Abrams tanks will only increase the livelihood of this happening.
Contact your Congressman and let them know that you do not support this idea and demand that they vote against this
http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=228506
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Good idea lets give the Jihadi's tanks ::) The pure fucking stupidity of this administration is mind boggling.
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Gunmen blow up Egyptian gas pipeline to Israel (And Jordan)
MSNBC ^ | 7-11-11 | ASHRAF SWEILAM
Posted on July 12, 2011 12:53:48 AM EDT by tcrlaf
EL-ARISH, Egypt — Masked gunmen on Tuesday blew up a terminal of the Egyptian natural gas pipeline to Israel and Jordan in a predawn attack, security officials said.
They said the attack was carried out by at least four assailants. The terminal is located at the city of El-Arish in the northern part of Egypt's Sinai Peninsula some 30 miles (48 kilometers) west of the Israeli border.
The attackers ordered the guards on duty to leave and then blew up the terminal, starting a huge fire that sent flames shooting up and lighting the night sky, according to the officials. There were no casualties, they said.
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
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Egyptian Economic Ties Eroding After Pipeline Blast
Jerusalem Post ^ | July 12, 2011 | Staff
After 4th Sinai attack disrupts gas supply, Landau says energy prices will increase by 20%; EMG shareholders pursue legal action against Egypt.
Israel's most crucial tie to Egypt, an economic one, is deteriorating, National Infrastructures Minister Uzi Landau told Army Radio on Tuesday morning.
Earlier Tuesday, saboteurs blew up an Egyptian gas pipeline distribution station in northern Sinai that supplies natural gas to Israel, the official MENA news agency reported. The explosion was the fourth attack this year on pipelines in Sinai that supply gas to Israel and Jordan.
"The most important economic connection between Israel and Egypt is eroding," Landau said. "Electricity disruptions are not expected since we have other energy reserves, however it will be more expensive."
"The price will increase by about 20 percent due to the use of gasoline and diesel, but my job is to maintain the supply of electricity to the Israeli economy," Landau continued.
"Israel was ready to allow Egypt to deploy more forces in Sinai to secure the pipeline, even at the beginning of the Egyptian uprising, in opposition to the peace agreement," he explained. "But I recommend against interfering since our neighboring country's situation is not simple. Israel needs to rely on herself and the Tamar reserves can supply [gas] needs for the next 25 years."
Nile television said flames from the blast near the town of Al-Arish could be seen up to 20 kms (12 miles) away. It gave no details on the causes of the explosion or the extent of the damages.
But MENA, without citing its sources, said there had been an attack on the station that is used to "export Egyptian gas abroad", including supplying Israel. Egypt also sells gas to Jordan and other countries.
(Excerpt) Read more at jpost.com ...
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http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/29/tension-rises-as-islamists-dominate-tahrir-square
Fail.
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bUMP - HEY ANDRE - HOW IS EGYPT WORKING OUT?
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bUMP - HEY ANDRE - HOW IS EGYPT WORKING OUT?
doesn't matter how Egypt is working out....its their country....they get to decide what they want to do with it....
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Seven killed in series of terrorist attacks in southern Israel
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/seven-killed-in-series-of-terrorist-attacks-in-southern-israel-1.379309
Several killed, at least 26 wounded after armed gunmen fired on bus traveling near Eilat, close to Egypt border; IDF and trades fire with gunmen; mortars are fired from Egyptian border; IDF kills several terrorists.
By Anshel Pfeffer, Revital Levy-Stein, Yanir Yagna and Haaretz
Tags: Eilat Israel terrorism
Seven people were killed and at least 26 people were wounded Thursday in a series of terrorist attacks on Israeli targets approximately 20 kilometers north of the southern city of Eilat, close to the border with Egypt.
The first attack, at around 12 P.M., was a drive-by shooting targeting Egged bus 392 traveling from Be'er Sheva to Eilat, near the Netafim junction.
Israeli security forces stand next to an Eilat-bound Egged bus targeted in a series of terror attacks in southern Israel that left seven dead, August 18, 2011. Reuters1/7Visit Haaretz.com on Facebook and share your views.
View Shooting attacks north of Eilat in a larger map
Shortly afterward, IDF forces rushed to the scene and were faced with several explosive devices that were detonated alongside an IDF vehicle.
At approximately 12:35, a mortar was fired from Egypt to Israel. No casualties were reported.
Israeli emergency personnel stand near a bus after it was ambushed north of the Red Sea resort of Eilat on Thursday.
Photo by: Reuters/Lior Grundman
At 1:10 P.M., a terrorist cell fired an anti-tank missile at a private vehicle, wounding seven.
Minutes later, another cell fired an anti-tank missile at a private vehicle, killing six.
The IDF Spokesman reported that two to four terrorists were killed during the clashes.
According to reports, the terrorists in the car opened fire at the Egged bus, which carried a significant number of soldiers leaving their bases for the weekend.
In the aftermath of the first attack, Israeli security forces launched a search for the vehicle thought to have transported the gunmen, setting up barricades in the area. A firefight erupted once the IDF troops caught up with the vehicle, in which several of the armed men were killed.
Two IDF helicopters were called to the scene in order to evacuate those wounded to Yoseftal hospital in Eilat and to Soroka hospital in Be'er Sheva.
Visit Haaretz.com on Facebook and share your views.
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GREAT FUCKING JOB OBAMA!
NOW EGYPT IS BEING USED AS A PLACE TO STAGE TERRIST ATTACKS.
FUCK YOU ANDRE, MAL, LURKER, STRAW, BENNY, BLACKEN, AND EVERY OTHER POIECE OF TRASH WHO VOTED FOR THIS ASSHOLE IN DC.
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Middle East
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/8705142/What-did-we-expect-from-the-Arab-Spring.html
What did we expect from the Arab Spring?
The uprisings heralded exciting change, but every country in the Middle East has suffered.
Tourism in Egypt has been wrecked since the uprising By Alistair Horne
8:12PM BST 16 Aug 2011
The Great Fire of London may have provided a smokescreen for the crisis in the Middle East, but it continues to rumble away as the number one issue on the foreign scene. “Things never turn out how you expect, dear boy,” Harold Macmillan once remarked to me. As an old Middle East watcher, dating back to the late Forties, when I worked for MI5 in Cairo, I’ve always recognised the validity of that observation in this corner of the world.
We never expected fat King Farouk suddenly to be overthrown by a bunch of colonels; never expected Nasser to seize the Suez Canal, then provoke a war with Israel in which he and the Arab “brethren” would be shatteringly defeated. Even when Sadat had half a million men milling around in the desert just west of Sinai, the CIA never expected that Egypt might be about to attack Israel again. And certainly, no one in the West could ever have predicted the September 11 attacks.
Now, six months on from the initial uprisings of the Arab Spring (which, understandably enough, no one expected), we seem to have got all our predictions wrong yet again. But why should we have thought the Arab world might introduce democracy? Against every expectation, out of all the nations in revolt, from Tunisia to Yemen, no leaders, not even a petty Nasser, have arisen, anywhere. The only potential one to emerge, General Abdel Fattah Younes, was killed last month, in an own goal.
With the season of Ramadan now well under way, the results of these popular uprisings are hardly encouraging. In Tunisia, once one of the most law-abiding countries in the Arab world, violent crime has rocketed – not least sectarian offences. Deprived of tourism, the economy has plummeted; the poverty rate has risen from a pre-revolutionary 4 per cent to 40 per cent. Politically, the Islamist Ennahda party looks set to profit in the coming elections.
In Libya, the pink-kneed boy scouts of the Coalition who have run down our Armed Forces have got themselves into quite a mess. Even though Gaddafi seems to be cornered (don’t hold your breath!), it’s difficult to predict any favourable resolution. For “rebel forces” read “rabble”. And how many strikes have actually been carried out by the Arab airforces in the Alliance? The killing by Islamists of General Younes, the rebel commander, was a major setback both to Arab reformists and meddling Westerners. Dr Liam Fox says that such groups will have to be “marginalised” – but can the good doctor give us a prescription for exactly how to do that?
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ou might like:International war crimes court should investigate Syria, UN rights chief to say17 Aug 2011(Telegraph News)Egypt: Hosni Mubarak due back in court14 Aug 2011(Telegraph News)Syria: bridge bombed in Latakia as protests continue15 Aug 2011(Telegraph News)
From the WebFORM THE WEB:Are You Smarter Than Our Experts? Test Your History Knowledge Now!31 Dec 1969(History.com)Chupacabra, Dog or Fox? Mystery Animal Found in Maryland17 Aug 2011(Petside)Civil Blood18 Aug 2011(Tablet Magazine)[what's this]Further east, none of the demands of the revolutionaries in Yemen or Bahrain seems to have met with any success. In Syria, President Assad still sits, brutally crushing all protests, impervious to bleats from the White House – to the great satisfaction of Tehran and Hizbollah.
In Egypt, rage has returned to Tahrir Square. In a state of lawlessness unknown under the despotism of Mubarak, Christian churches have been burned down, and Copts murdered on the streets. But, as elsewhere in the Middle East, the anger is mainly about economics. Tourism, one of the leading industries, is wrecked.
Egypt is the most populous and influential nation in the Arab world, but it also has the greatest endemic problems of poverty. The economy, one suspects, is still controlled by the same old effendi sipping their coffee in the Mohamed Ali Club. When the Arab Spring began, there was big talk about creation of a Middle Eastern “Marshall Plan”. It would have been visionary, and tremendous; the sheikhs of Riyadh alone could have financed it from this year’s oil profits. But rhetoric aside, when did an Arab nation last do something for another? Despite all the fulsome talk about “our Arab brethren”, 10 minutes in the Middle East will tell you that they loathe each other with a passion only marginally less than that reserved for Israel. Indeed, while its ugly head never arose on Tahrir Square, anti-Israeli sentiment still festers – perhaps particularly among the young. When I lectured in Cairo a couple of years ago, promoting a book on Henry Kissinger, I rashly pointed out that – as a consequence of the Camp David accords that he blazed a trail for in the Seventies – Egypt had enjoyed a longer period of peace than Europe had between the two world wars. But I was (politely) shouted down. Notably by young women in hijabs, whose cry was that Egypt had isolated herself, and betrayed her Arab brethren. (That lethal word again.)
It’s certainly possible that economic frustration on the Egyptian street could turn to a more aggressive stance towards Israel – helped by the current paralysis in Washington. (And why, one wonders, does President Obama continue to kowtow to Benjamin Netanyahu, and let the Israeli tail wag the American dog?) Cutting arms giveaways to Israel would certainly help the US deficit, as well as gain support in an unsettled Arab world.
As the heat of Ramadan takes hold across the Middle East, one prospect to view with a fair degree of certainty is that al-Qaeda and its allies will not take off to the beaches of Alexandria, or the green hills of Tuscany. The killing of General Younes proves that they’re right in there, and it would not be beyond expectation to discover that, in the long run, we may have helped Islamist regimes take root in both Libya and Egypt. Even in Ramadan, nature abhors a vacuum.
Alistair Horne’s autobiography, 'But What Do You Actually Do?’, will be published by Weidenfeld & Nicolson next month
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Armed men cross Egyptian border, kill 8 Israelis
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_ISRAEL?SITE=7219&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-08-18-17-30-48
By DANIELLA CHESLOW
Associated Press
AP Photo/Ilan Assayag
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AP correspondent Matti Friedman reports Israel retaliated against the Popular Resistance Committee, a militant Palestinian group it blames for the attacks.
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AP correspondent Matti Friedman reports Israel forces are said to have killed some, if not all, of the attackers.
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AP Middle East Correspondent Mark Lavie in Cairo reports well armed attackers have killed at least seven Israelis on the border between Israel and Egypt.
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AP Middle East Correspondent Mark Lavie in Cairo reports at least seven Israelis have been killed in an attack near the Egypt-Syria border.
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An assault by attackers with heavy weapons has killed at least seven Israelis and wounded dozens. More from AP Middle East Correspondent Mark Lavie in Cairo.
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Israeli Defense Force spokeswoman Avital Leibovich blames the attacks on a terror cell.
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Israeli Defense Force spokeswoman Avital Leibovich says a vehicle was hit by a bomb in the attacks in southern Israel.
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Israeli Defense Force spokeswoman Avital Leibovich says gunmen opened fire on an Israeli passenger bus traveling near the southern border with Egypt.
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AP correspondent Aron Heller reports the attacks in a usually peaceful southern Israeli town are unnerving.
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AP correspondent Aron Heller reports details of casualties are sketchy after a series of attacks near the Egyptian border in southern Israel.
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AP correspondent Aron Heller reports a southern Israeli town near the Egyptian border is under seige.
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Hamas bans Gaza students studying abroad
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Conflict in the Middle East
EILAT, Israel (AP) -- Gunmen who crossed from the Egyptian desert launched a series of attacks Thursday in southern Israel, killing eight people and threatening to destabilize a volatile border region that includes the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip and the increasingly lawless Sinai Peninsula.
Israel blamed an armed Palestinian group from neighboring Gaza. Israeli forces killed five of the gunmen along the border with Egypt, the military said, and later launched an airstrike inside Gaza that killed five other militants from the same group as well as a child.
The Israeli military said three of the men killed in Gaza had been involved in planning the attack.
Gunfire continued on both sides of the border late into the evening. After nightfall, Israel's "Iron Dome" anti-missile system intercepted a rocket fired by Gaza militants at the city of Ashkelon, the military said.
The attacks were the deadliest against Israelis since a gunman killed eight civilians in Jerusalem in 2008. They suggested that Egypt's recent political upheaval and a resulting power vacuum in Sinai had allowed militants to open a new front against Israel on the long-quiet frontier.
The attack began shortly after noon in southern Israel with gunfire at a civilian bus heading toward the Red Sea resort city of Eilat, currently at the height of the tourist season.
A number of passengers were hit, the military said. The gunmen had crossed the border and set up an ambush along a 300-yard (meter) strip, armed with automatic weapons, grenades and suicide bomb belts, according to the military.
"We heard a shot and saw a window explode. I didn't really understand what was happening at first," passenger Idan Kaner told Israel's Channel 2 TV. "After another shot, there was chaos in the bus and everyone jumped on everyone else."
Within an hour, gunmen had riddled another passing bus and two cars with bullets and rigged a roadside bomb that detonated under an army jeep rushing to the scene. At the same time, mortar gunners in Gaza opened fire at soldiers along the Gaza-Israel border fence.
TV video showed the first bus with its windows shattered. Its seats were stained with blood and luggage littered the aisle.
The Israeli dead included six civilians and one soldier, according to the Israeli military's southern commander, Maj. Gen. Tal Russo.
Israeli soldiers eventually killed five attackers, the military said, and defense officials said three of the bodies were wired with explosives. It was not clear how many militants were involved or where they were from.
Egyptian security and Interior Ministry officials said a gunfight erupted on the border, and three Egyptians were killed, one police officer and two soldiers. The officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to brief reporters, said the gunfire erupted while Israelis were chasing militants who were trying to re-enter Sinai. It was not clear if the gunfire at the Egyptians came from Israeli soldiers or the militants. The Israeli military had no comment.
According to the Israeli military, during the fighting along the border the gunmen tried and failed to shoot down an Israeli helicopter with an anti-tank missile.
Roadblocks were erected in the area, sealing roads in and out of Eilat, and senior Israeli security officials convened an emergency session at the Defense Ministry in Tel Aviv.
Hours later, militants who had apparently gone undetected attacked again, and a member of an elite police counter-terrorism unit was killed, the eighth Israeli fatality, according to Chief Inspector Alex Kagalsky, a spokesman for the Israel police.
Israel said the attackers had come from Gaza and made their way into neighboring Sinai and from there into Israel.
"Today we all witnessed an attempt to step up terror by attacking from Sinai. If anyone thinks Israel will live with that, he is mistaken," Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said late Thursday. "If the terror organizations think they can strike at our civilians without a response, they will find that Israel will exact a price - a very heavy price."
U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton condemned what she called "premeditated acts of terrorism against innocent civilians," and said the U.S. and Israel were "united in the fight against terror."
Clinton added that the violence "only underscores our strong concerns about the security situation in the Sinai Peninsula," and urged the Egyptian government to find "a lasting solution."
The U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv issued an "emergency message" urging U.S. citizens to avoid the area of the attack and requiring embassy employees and their families to receive approval before traveling to Israel's south.
Taher Nunu, a spokesman for the Hamas government, denied the militants' complicity, saying Gaza "has nothing to do with these attacks."
The Israeli military said the attacks had been executed by a Hamas-linked group known as the Popular Resistance Committees, and that their objective had been to kidnap civilians or soldiers. The group was involved in the capture of an Israeli soldier, Sgt. Gilad Schalit, who has been held captive in Gaza for more than five years.
An Israeli airstrike on Gaza killed five members of the group, including its commander, as well as the 3-year-old child of one of the militants, according to Hamas security officials.
A spokesman for the Popular Resistance Committees, Abu Mujahid, would not comment on its alleged complicity. He threatened retaliation for the deaths of the group's members.
Though it seemed clear the gunmen had come through Egyptian territory, Gen. Khaled Fouda, the governor of the southern Sinai district, said no shooting had come from the Egyptian side.
"The incident underscores the weak Egyptian hold on Sinai and the broadening of the activities of terrorists," said Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak. "The real source of the terror is in Gaza, and we will act against them with full force and determination."
The Sinai desert, dominated by Bedouin tribes and never entirely under the control of the central government, have grown more violent since a popular uprising toppled longtime Egyptian ruler Hosni Mubarak in February. Since then, assailants have repeatedly blown up a crucial pipeline carrying natural gas to Israel and Jordan.
Egypt moved thousands of troops into the area last week as part of a major operation against al-Qaida-inspired militants who have been increasingly active there since Mubarak's ouster.
Most of the routine traffic across the remote, mountainous border involves Bedouin smugglers ferrying drugs and African asylum seekers into Israel.
There is a thriving smuggling trade between Sinai and Gaza through tunnels under the border, and goods and people can move in both directions. If the attackers were from Gaza, they could have reached Sinai through the tunnels and then crossed the Israel-Egypt border, which is largely unfenced, making their way toward Eilat, which is 130 miles (200 kilometers) from Gaza.
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Rizek Abdul Jawad contributed to this report from Gaza City.
© 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Learn more about our Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.
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Armed men cross Egyptian border, kill 8 Israelis
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_ISRAEL?SITE=7219&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-08-18-17-30-48
By DANIELLA CHESLOW
Associated Press
AP Photo/Ilan Assayag
World Video
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AP AUDIO
AP correspondent Matti Friedman reports Israel retaliated against the Popular Resistance Committee, a militant Palestinian group it blames for the attacks.
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AP correspondent Matti Friedman reports Israel blames Palestinian terrorists for the attacks.
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AP correspondent Matti Friedman reports Israel forces are said to have killed some, if not all, of the attackers.
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AP correspondent Matti Friedman reports Israel's leader has warned against further attacks on Israel from Egypt's Sinai Peninsula.
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AP Middle East Correspondent Mark Lavie in Cairo reports well armed attackers have killed at least seven Israelis on the border between Israel and Egypt.
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AP Middle East Correspondent Mark Lavie in Cairo reports at least seven Israelis have been killed in an attack near the Egypt-Syria border.
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An assault by attackers with heavy weapons has killed at least seven Israelis and wounded dozens. More from AP Middle East Correspondent Mark Lavie in Cairo.
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Israeli Defense Force spokeswoman Avital Leibovich blames the attacks on a terror cell.
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Israeli Defense Force spokeswoman Avital Leibovich says a vehicle was hit by a bomb in the attacks in southern Israel.
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Israeli Defense Force spokeswoman Avital Leibovich says gunmen opened fire on an Israeli passenger bus traveling near the southern border with Egypt.
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AP correspondent Aron Heller reports the attacks in a usually peaceful southern Israeli town are unnerving.
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AP correspondent Aron Heller reports details of casualties are sketchy after a series of attacks near the Egyptian border in southern Israel.
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AP correspondent Aron Heller reports a southern Israeli town near the Egyptian border is under seige.
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Armed men cross Egyptian border, kill 8 Israelis
Latest developments in Mideast unrest
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Palestinian reconciliation stalls over statehood
PHOTO GALLERY
Conflict in the Middle East
EILAT, Israel (AP) -- Gunmen who crossed from the Egyptian desert launched a series of attacks Thursday in southern Israel, killing eight people and threatening to destabilize a volatile border region that includes the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip and the increasingly lawless Sinai Peninsula.
Israel blamed an armed Palestinian group from neighboring Gaza. Israeli forces killed five of the gunmen along the border with Egypt, the military said, and later launched an airstrike inside Gaza that killed five other militants from the same group as well as a child.
The Israeli military said three of the men killed in Gaza had been involved in planning the attack.
Gunfire continued on both sides of the border late into the evening. After nightfall, Israel's "Iron Dome" anti-missile system intercepted a rocket fired by Gaza militants at the city of Ashkelon, the military said.
The attacks were the deadliest against Israelis since a gunman killed eight civilians in Jerusalem in 2008. They suggested that Egypt's recent political upheaval and a resulting power vacuum in Sinai had allowed militants to open a new front against Israel on the long-quiet frontier.
The attack began shortly after noon in southern Israel with gunfire at a civilian bus heading toward the Red Sea resort city of Eilat, currently at the height of the tourist season.
A number of passengers were hit, the military said. The gunmen had crossed the border and set up an ambush along a 300-yard (meter) strip, armed with automatic weapons, grenades and suicide bomb belts, according to the military.
"We heard a shot and saw a window explode. I didn't really understand what was happening at first," passenger Idan Kaner told Israel's Channel 2 TV. "After another shot, there was chaos in the bus and everyone jumped on everyone else."
Within an hour, gunmen had riddled another passing bus and two cars with bullets and rigged a roadside bomb that detonated under an army jeep rushing to the scene. At the same time, mortar gunners in Gaza opened fire at soldiers along the Gaza-Israel border fence.
TV video showed the first bus with its windows shattered. Its seats were stained with blood and luggage littered the aisle.
The Israeli dead included six civilians and one soldier, according to the Israeli military's southern commander, Maj. Gen. Tal Russo.
Israeli soldiers eventually killed five attackers, the military said, and defense officials said three of the bodies were wired with explosives. It was not clear how many militants were involved or where they were from.
Egyptian security and Interior Ministry officials said a gunfight erupted on the border, and three Egyptians were killed, one police officer and two soldiers. The officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to brief reporters, said the gunfire erupted while Israelis were chasing militants who were trying to re-enter Sinai. It was not clear if the gunfire at the Egyptians came from Israeli soldiers or the militants. The Israeli military had no comment.
According to the Israeli military, during the fighting along the border the gunmen tried and failed to shoot down an Israeli helicopter with an anti-tank missile.
Roadblocks were erected in the area, sealing roads in and out of Eilat, and senior Israeli security officials convened an emergency session at the Defense Ministry in Tel Aviv.
Hours later, militants who had apparently gone undetected attacked again, and a member of an elite police counter-terrorism unit was killed, the eighth Israeli fatality, according to Chief Inspector Alex Kagalsky, a spokesman for the Israel police.
Israel said the attackers had come from Gaza and made their way into neighboring Sinai and from there into Israel.
"Today we all witnessed an attempt to step up terror by attacking from Sinai. If anyone thinks Israel will live with that, he is mistaken," Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said late Thursday. "If the terror organizations think they can strike at our civilians without a response, they will find that Israel will exact a price - a very heavy price."
U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton condemned what she called "premeditated acts of terrorism against innocent civilians," and said the U.S. and Israel were "united in the fight against terror."
Clinton added that the violence "only underscores our strong concerns about the security situation in the Sinai Peninsula," and urged the Egyptian government to find "a lasting solution."
The U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv issued an "emergency message" urging U.S. citizens to avoid the area of the attack and requiring embassy employees and their families to receive approval before traveling to Israel's south.
Taher Nunu, a spokesman for the Hamas government, denied the militants' complicity, saying Gaza "has nothing to do with these attacks."
The Israeli military said the attacks had been executed by a Hamas-linked group known as the Popular Resistance Committees, and that their objective had been to kidnap civilians or soldiers. The group was involved in the capture of an Israeli soldier, Sgt. Gilad Schalit, who has been held captive in Gaza for more than five years.
An Israeli airstrike on Gaza killed five members of the group, including its commander, as well as the 3-year-old child of one of the militants, according to Hamas security officials.
A spokesman for the Popular Resistance Committees, Abu Mujahid, would not comment on its alleged complicity. He threatened retaliation for the deaths of the group's members.
Though it seemed clear the gunmen had come through Egyptian territory, Gen. Khaled Fouda, the governor of the southern Sinai district, said no shooting had come from the Egyptian side.
"The incident underscores the weak Egyptian hold on Sinai and the broadening of the activities of terrorists," said Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak. "The real source of the terror is in Gaza, and we will act against them with full force and determination."
The Sinai desert, dominated by Bedouin tribes and never entirely under the control of the central government, have grown more violent since a popular uprising toppled longtime Egyptian ruler Hosni Mubarak in February. Since then, assailants have repeatedly blown up a crucial pipeline carrying natural gas to Israel and Jordan.
Egypt moved thousands of troops into the area last week as part of a major operation against al-Qaida-inspired militants who have been increasingly active there since Mubarak's ouster.
Most of the routine traffic across the remote, mountainous border involves Bedouin smugglers ferrying drugs and African asylum seekers into Israel.
There is a thriving smuggling trade between Sinai and Gaza through tunnels under the border, and goods and people can move in both directions. If the attackers were from Gaza, they could have reached Sinai through the tunnels and then crossed the Israel-Egypt border, which is largely unfenced, making their way toward Eilat, which is 130 miles (200 kilometers) from Gaza.
---
Rizek Abdul Jawad contributed to this report from Gaza City.
© 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. Learn more about our Privacy Policy and Terms of Use.
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Yes it is.
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Fiasco: Obama's Mideast Mess (Oliver North)
Creators Syndicate ^ | August 18, 2011 | Oliver North
Posted on August 18, 2011 8:23:27 PM EDT by jazusamo
WASHINGTON — Having completed his three-state "Midwest listening tour," President Barack Obama is now on vacation on Martha's Vineyard. According to his handlers, in between golf outings and cocktail parties, our president also is working on yet another speech on how he will balance our government's books and put Americans back to work. Those who believe that ought to recall his remarks March 22, five days after U.S. and allied military operations began in Libya: "I said at the outset that this was going to be a matter of days and not weeks."
This week, we passed the five-month mark since U.S. and NATO airstrikes began in Libya. Nearly 30,000 air missions — including more than 250 cruise missile strikes — have been flown since Obama announced that the U.S. military's "unique capabilities" would be used to "take down Libyan air defenses." Rebel units armed, trained and supported by British and French special operations units are inching toward Tripoli, but Moammar Gadhafi remains in power, and his depredations against the Libyan people continue. On Tuesday, forces loyal to the dictator fired at least one Scud missile — a weapon capable of delivering chemical warheads — at opponents of his regime.
Though the ongoing "humanitarian mission to protect civilians in Libya" was approved by United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973, U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon is having second thoughts. On Aug. 12, he issued a statement saying he's "deeply concerned by reports of the unacceptably large number of civilian casualties as a result of the conflict in Libya." Exactly what "unacceptably large" means was not explained, and calls to the U.N. press office were not returned. Nor are there any definitive numbers on how many have been killed or wounded since hostilities commenced March 17. Some human rights groups put the number at more than 30,000. So much for the president's claim that U.S. forces were being committed in Libya on a "mission to protect civilians."
Whether this claim and Obama's bogus "days and not weeks" comment were simply naive Utopian idealism, gross incompetence or outright duplicity, well, we may never know. What we do know is that the operation in Libya — like the rest of the O-Team's hesitant, ambivalent and contradictory Mideast policy — is a fiasco.
Egypt, once the linchpin of U.S. policy in the Muslim world, is in nearly total disarray. After weeks of rioting in Cairo and other cities along the Nile, our detached commander in chief finally said Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak had to go. When a military junta — encouraged by the Obama administration — replaced Mubarak on Feb. 10, White House officials babbled euphorically about an "Arab spring" and a "new era of democracy."
It hasn't happened. The Supreme Council of the Armed Forces, now running things in Cairo, has put Mubarak on trial but has proved to be unable to restore law and order, stem inflation or improve employment opportunities for young Egyptians. Tourism, once the source of nearly 20 percent of the Egyptian economy, is nonexistent. Virulently anti-Western candidates endorsed by the Muslim Brotherhood's Freedom and Justice Party are expected to dominate parliamentary elections in October.
Worse still, the Egyptian army, long regarded by Washington to be a stabilizing force in the region, now appears to be less capable of keeping radical Islamic terror elements in check. A pipeline across the Egyptian-controlled Sinai Desert — providing fuel to both Israel and Jordan — has been targeted five times since February. And this past week, terrorists killed eight Israelis and wounded 25 more near the Red Sea port of Eilat. Israeli security officials say the perpetrators were Hamas gunmen from Gaza who transited the Egyptian Sinai security zone into Israel.
Apparently, the bloody assault in Eilat caught the attention of the very distracted folks at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. and made them realize that things aren't all they should be in the Middle East. The White House eventually released a three-line written statement condemning the attack. But first, the White House press office announced new measures to be taken against the oppressive, Iranian-supported regime in Syria.
According to this statement, also issued without further comment from Obama, our president finally has decided that Bashar Assad should "step aside" in Damascus and that a new executive order with "unprecedented sanctions" will "deepen the financial isolation of the Assad regime." A careful reading of the executive order reveals that it does little more than bar U.S. citizens and companies from doing business in Syria. It's disingenuous and not much different from the futile restrictions currently imposed on Iran for its nuclear weapons program.
To be effective, real sanctions must bar all individuals and companies — U.S.-based or not — from doing business in Syria if they want to do business in America. But that would require formulating a genuine Mideast policy and a viable national energy policy and having real leadership. It's a lot easier to simply go on vacation and issue a news release.
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Egypt decides to withdraw ambassador from Israel
Associated Press ^ | August 19, 2011
Posted on August 19, 2011 11:35:36 PM EDT by Free ThinkerNY
CAIRO (AP) -- The Egyptian Cabinet says it has decided to withdraw its ambassador from Israel over the deaths of Egyptian security forces in fighting after an ambush targeting Israelis near the border between the two countries.
The Cabinet statement issued early Saturday says the ambassador will be withdrawn until Israel investigates the shooting deaths of five Egyptian security forces.
(Excerpt) Read more at hosted.ap.org ...
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Egypt protester replaces Israel embassy flag with Egyptian
Aug 20 08:54 PM US/Eastern
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An Egyptian protester Sunday clambered up to Israel's embassy in a Cairo highrise, took down its flag and replaced it with an Egyptian one as more than 1,000 people protested over the border deaths of their policemen.
The red, white and black Egyptian flag fluttered from the embassy as demonstrators cheered and chanted "Long live Egypt!" and lit fireworks in the night sky.
Copyright AFP 2008, AFP stories and photos shall not be published, broadcast, rewritten for broadcast or publication or redistributed directly or indirectly in any medium
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Egyptians Demonstrating opposite Israeli Embassy in Cairo Shows Sign with Swastika Saying "The Gas
Atlas Shrugs ^ | 8/22/11 | Pamela Geller
Footage of Egyptians Demonstrating opposite Israeli Embassy in Cairo Shows Sign with Swastika
Saying "The Gas Chambers Are Ready" Al-Jazeera TV (Qatar) - August 21, 2011 - 01:14
More of the putrid, fetid blossoms of the Obama supported Islamic spring. Of course, we knew this. Atlas called it as soon as the Muslim Brotherhood revolution began to unfold began in January. The Islamic supremacists and their leftwing useful idiots couldn't wait to oust the first (and only) Muslim country to sign a peace accord with Israel. Mubarak, America's most reliable Muslim ally for 30 years, was thrown under the bus by the Muslim Brotherhood stooge in the White House. Has the leftwing media who propagandized this horror as all sweetness and light corrected the record? Are they capable of picking up a bucket of water and making even so much as a feeble attempt to help put the fire that they helped start and spread? These moral cowards are incapable of humanity.
Ahmadinejad remained in power as Obama sanctioned his mass massacres in the first, real people's revolution. Assad, Iran's vassal, stays in power as Obama stood by. But Obama got tough with ......Qadafi.
(Excerpt) Read more at atlasshrugs2000.typepad. com ...
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Democratic Egypt to Ban Bikinis, Beer and King Tut
Townhall.com ^ | August 28, 2011 | Doug Giles
Posted on August 28, 2011 7:31:52 AM EDT by Kaslin
Remember when every Ron Burgundy out there was giddy as a schoolgirl telling us that Egyptian “freedom fighters” were getting rid of that old meanie Mubarak and were headed for a “democracy” in the land of Pharaoh? I sure do.
I particularly remember the reporters selling us that smack during the outset of the Arab Spring: “Revolutionaries,” they called the Egyptian dissidents—veritable “mutineers from Mubarak’s mayhem, sick of servitude and longing for liberty, just like Paul Revere!” They flung that noise, or something to that effect, at us with goggle-eyed glee each day for weeks on end.
Personally, I never bought this “freedom fighter” bull shiitake we were all being sold, and I said so from day one of this uprising on my amazing show, ClashRadio.com. Indeed, this “democratic” thang reeked of nutty radicals to me, and I believed it had zilch to do with “Egyptian young folk just wanting to live la Vida Loca.”
That said, however, I must confess that I did question myself as to whether or not I was being too harsh on the newscasters’ spiel and the motivations of the “freedom fighters.” Perhaps I had become too much of a jaded skeptic when it came to the jacked-up scat in Cairo.
That personal inventory regarding the wrongness of my perturbation with the “democratic revolt” lasted about two days. I believe I second-guessed my naughty heart right up until two hundred “democracy seekers” gang raped CBS’s foreign correspondent Lara Logan. I thought that was a strange thing for lovers of democracy to do.
Oh, another thing that made me think that maybe I was dialed into what was truly going down was the Muslim Brotherhood started popping up all over the place, gaining control over the “secular” Egyptian military.
And one more thing that ended my brutal introspection was that after Mubarak got deposed, the “new democracy” reestablished relations with Iran and Hamas and officially told Israel to blank off.
It was at that point in time that I ceased my second-guessing and formally realized that I am a genius. Radicals hijacked Egypt, and the Egyptians who truly long for freedom—at least as defined by sane standards—are now more SOL than they were under Hosni’s boot.
And lastly, this past week the “freedom folks” in Egypt have put forth their liberty legislation that includes bans on bikinis, mixed bathing on beaches, and drinking beer in public—and they’re even yapping about getting rid of the Sphinx, the pyramids, and other ancient Egyptian archaeological wonders.
Hope and change.
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/09/us-egypt-protest-idUSTRE7885PH20110909
Real nice Andre. Douchebag.
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Protesters in Egypt breach wall, enter Israeli Embassy
CNN ^ | 9/9/11 | mohammed fahmy
Posted on September 9, 2011 3:45:24 PM EDT by La Enchiladita
Hundreds of protesters in Cairo on Friday were tearing down a newly built wall around the building that houses the Israeli Embassy, a show of political rage on another tense day in Egypt's capital.
CNN saw soldiers and police stand by as demonstrators tried to destroy the wall, built for the high-rise building's protection.
The makeshift wall surrounds another wall around the building. Protesters cheered the demolition and chanted for the ouster of Israel's ambassador. State TV said some protesters tried to scale the inner wall after they worked to take down the outer wall.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...
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Protesters in Egypt breach wall, enter Israeli Embassy
CNN ^ | 9/9/11 | mohammed fahmy
Posted on September 9, 2011 3:45:24 PM EDT by La Enchiladita
Hundreds of protesters in Cairo on Friday were tearing down a newly built wall around the building that houses the Israeli Embassy, a show of political rage on another tense day in Egypt's capital.
CNN saw soldiers and police stand by as demonstrators tried to destroy the wall, built for the high-rise building's protection.
The makeshift wall surrounds another wall around the building. Protesters cheered the demolition and chanted for the ouster of Israel's ambassador. State TV said some protesters tried to scale the inner wall after they worked to take down the outer wall.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...
our embassies get destroyed all the time by protesters....its really not that big a deal....our embassies have been bombed as well
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our embassies get destroyed all the time by protesters....its really not that big a deal....our embassies have been bombed as well
Here's a novel thought... New policy.
If one of our embassies is bombed in a foreign land, then we get to bomb the embassy of that country here in the US?
You think people would police their places a little better?
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Here's a novel thought... New policy.
If one of our embassies is bombed in a foreign land, then we get to bomb the embassy of that country here in the US?
You think people would police their places a little better?
gotta admit I like this
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Egyptians Break into Israeli Embassy in Cairo
MSNBC.com ^ | 9/9/2011 | Aya Batrawy
Protesters broke into the Israeli Embassy in Cairo Friday and dumped documents out of the windows as hundreds more demonstrated outside, prompting the ambassador and his family to leave the country. The unrest was a further worsening of already deteriorating ties between Israel and post-Hosni Mubarak Egypt.
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
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Obama calls on Egypt to protect Israeli embassy (Hey Obama, how's that "Arab Spring" coming?)
google ^ | 9/9/2011 | afp
Posted on September 10, 2011 9:51:40 AM EDT by tobyhill
US President Barack Obama on Friday called on Egypt to protect Israel's embassy from demonstrators in Cairo, as he spoke by telephone to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, officials said.
Obama expressed "great concern" over the incident and explained steps Washington was taking in response, including a call on Egypt "to honor its international obligations to safeguard the security of the Israeli Embassy."
"The President expressed his great concern about the situation at the Embassy, and the security of the Israelis serving there," a White House statement said.
"The President and the Prime Minister agreed to stay in close touch until the situation is resolved."
(Excerpt) Read more at google.com ...
Lmfao. What a fool we have for president.
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Obama calls on Egypt to protect Israeli embassy (Hey Obama, how's that "Arab Spring" coming?)
google ^ | 9/9/2011 | afp
Posted on September 10, 2011 9:51:40 AM EDT by tobyhill
US President Barack Obama on Friday called on Egypt to protect Israel's embassy from demonstrators in Cairo, as he spoke by telephone to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, officials said.
Obama expressed "great concern" over the incident and explained steps Washington was taking in response, including a call on Egypt "to honor its international obligations to safeguard the security of the Israeli Embassy."
"The President expressed his great concern about the situation at the Embassy, and the security of the Israelis serving there," a White House statement said.
"The President and the Prime Minister agreed to stay in close touch until the situation is resolved."
(Excerpt) Read more at google.com ...
Lmfao. What a fool we have for president.
You should really try getting out and seeing the sun this month.
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You should really try getting out and seeing the sun this month.
You should see a doc for your TBI.
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Egypt's Military Rulers Ignored Pleas From US As Mob Attacked Israeli Embassy [Panetta Ignored!]
Telegraph(UK) ^ | September 11, 2011 | Adrian Blomfield
Egypt's Military Rulers Ignored Pleas From US As Mob Attacked Israeli Embassy
Egypt's military leaders have been accused of turning a blind eye to the mob attack on Israel's Cairo embassy at the weekend as it emerged that they ignored repeated telephone calls from the Obama administration.
Adrian Blomfield,11 Sep 2011
With six Israeli security guards fending off an angry mob rampaging through the mission, Leon Panetta, the US defence secretary, tried for two hours to get hold of Field Marshal Hussein Tantawi, Egypt's de facto head of state, to demand an immediate rescue operation.
Aides told Mr Panetta that the general could not be found, Israeli officials were quoted as saying. The response prompted fury in Washington, and threats of US retribution. Field Marshal Tantawi's mysterious disappearance intensified speculation that Egypt's generals had deliberately failed to protect the embassy for political gain.
The armed forces, which are running Egypt until a civilian government is elected at the end of the year, are thought to be desperate to retain the political influence and financial privileges they enjoyed under President Hosni Mubarak, who was toppled by protests in February. Officials in Israel, as well as a number of political activists in Cairo, have claimed that Field Marshal Tantawi turned down an opportunity to rein in the violence at the embassy in order to prove that, without a strong army, Egypt would descend into violence and anarchy.
Israel was forced to send military aircraft to Cairo to evacuate its ambassador and more than 80 diplomats after a mob, angered by the killing of three Egyptian border guards by Israeli forces last month, laid siege to the embassy. As the Egyptian police and army stood by, unwilling or unable to intervene, the rioters broke through the mission's defences and ransacked the building.
(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...
________________________ ________________________ __________________
FANTASTIC JOB OBAMA!
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Former Mossad Head: ‘Obama Doctrine’ Destabilizing Middle East
The Media Line ^ | September 11, 2011 | Arieh O'Sullivan
Israel doesn’t have a dog in the fight, but paying the brunt of frustration
A former head of the Mossad called US President Barack Obama’s policies in the Middle East naïve and his “Obama Doctrine” was destabilizing the region.
"Obama chose to support the peoples' populist demands instead of supporting his strategic allied rulers,” Shabtai Shavit told a conference on counter terrorism opening near Tel Aviv Sunday. "Obama didn't think the ruler could be influenced or the status quo would survive and that was political naïveté on his part."
Shavit, who ran the Israeli secret service between 1989 and 1996, said he was allowing himself to speak frankly because of his age and experience. He said that Obama’s 2009 address in Cairo “unintentionally sped up the Arab Spring revolt.”
“Obama believes that with the aid of defensive strategy of disengaging from Afghanistan and Iraq he will be the first American president that would make peace and reconciliation between America and the Arab world.”
Shavit, today the Chairman of the Board of Directors of the International Institute for Counter Terrorism, prefaced his statements about the American leader saying he wanted to be careful not to show disrespect for the US president because the United States was a strategic ally.
But his comments also sparked similar warnings and criticism from a slew of former Israeli generals and another former Mossad chief.
“I think the United States would be making a great mistake if it turns into itself, backs away from the Middle East and slowly cuts itself off from the region,” said Maj-Gen. (ret.) Dani Yatom, also a former Mossad director. He added that he felt the US was pulling out of Iraq and Afghanistan too early and before the job was done.
“Every drop of blood that Americans shed will have been in vain and that’s a pity,” Yatom said.
Maj.-Gen. Aharon Ze’evi-Farkash, a former head of Israeli military intelligence called the United States a “sinking superpower,” but noted this weakened foreign policy actually began under President George Bush’s administration when his interventionist policies were stymied by countries like Turkey, which refused to allow the US Army invade Iraq from its territory.
Speaking in the wake of the storming of the Israeli embassy in Cairo over the weekend, Shavit said the Egyptian military was lead by an “old and sick general, foxy, but a weak leader.”
Israel was forced to stage a dramatic evacuation of its embassy personnel on Saturday after mobs stormed the embassy in Cairo. Israel sought US intervention to ask the Egyptian military to aid in the evacuation and reportedly the head of the Supreme Military Council, Field Marshal Mohammed Tantawi, deflected calls during the crisis.
“Internal security has virtually ceased to function. The economy is failing. The events of the past few days are best proof that anarchy is reigning in Egypt,” Shavit said.
Meanwhile, Israel’s Defense Minister Ehud Barak expressed concerned about Israel’s growing political isolation, particularly with Egypt and Turkey, that during the cabinet meeting on Sunday he called for a special session to discuss strategy.
"There is a wide picture forming around us that includes what happened with Turkey, what is happening with Egypt, and what is happening with the Palestinians," Barak told ministers. "These are events that are not in our control, but we can certainly affect the way we face them."
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MORE ON THIS STORY
Story | Egypt police raid Al Jazeera office as sense of crisis grows
Story | Egypt declares emergency after Israeli embassy attack
Story | Demonstrators storm Israeli embassy building in Cairo
On the Web | More world coverage from McClatchy
By Sheera Frenkel | McClatchy Newspapers
JERUSALEM — The attack on the Israeli embassy in Cairo has brought into sharp relief Israel's increasing isolation in a still region grappling with the changes of the Arab Spring.
Israel was forced to evacuate its ambassador and most of its diplomatic staff from Cairo this weekend after hundreds of Egyptian protesters tore down a security wall protecting the Nile-side embassy, ransacked its files and burned an Israeli flag. It came less than a week after Turkey, Israel's other major ally in the Muslim world, announced it was expelling the Israeli ambassador and downgrading its relationship to the lowest possible level after a deadly skirmish involving a Turkish aid vessel that was attempting to deliver supplies in defiance of Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip.
With another potential predicament brewing later this month when the Palestinians are expected to request membership and statehood at the United Nations, Israeli-Arab relations appear to be plunging to their lowest point in years.
"Within a week Israel has found itself two friends down and about to face a so-called diplomatic tsunami with the Palestinians," said one European envoy in Jerusalem, who spoke on condition of anonymity under diplomatic protocol.
"I would be nervous if I was an Israeli diplomat today."
The damage to relations with Egypt and Turkey has struck many Israelis. Turkey was the first Muslim-majority country to recognize Israel as a Jewish state in 1949 and Egypt was the first Arab country to sign a peace treaty with Israel in 1979.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was quick to condemn the attack on the Israeli embassy in Cairo but added that the historic peace agreement between Israel and Egypt was still intact.
"Egypt must not ignore the severe injury to the fabric of peace with Israel and such a blatant violation of international laws," Netanyahu said Saturday.
Officials in Israel's foreign ministry, however, said the embassy attack "could not be ignored" and marked a sharp shift in Israel's diplomatic dealings with its neighbor since the resignation in February of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak — whose dictatorial regime had kept a lid on anti-Israeli sentiment.
"For a long time Israel has benefited from a positive relationship with Egypt that allowed Israel some sense of security. It is clear that Egypt today is not the Egypt of one year ago," said an Israeli diplomat who also requested anonymity.
"Now Israel will have to look at its border to the south as one more to watch and guard. The burning of the Israeli flag in Cairo symbolized much more to those of us that watched from Jerusalem."
The image of the burning flag figured prominently on Israeli television this weekend, with several commentators asking whether it would be the last time an Israeli flag flew in Egypt.
On Israel's Channel Two news, the anchorman led the Saturday evening broadcast by asking whether Israel had found itself "alone without a friend" in the region.
Netanyahu and Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman have been increasingly at odds over how to cope with the growing isolation.
Under the hawkish Lieberman's directive, foreign ministry officials have begun drafting a list of "punishments" for Turkey. Meanwhile, Netanyahu's office said it had heeded calls for restraint and a tempering of hostilities between the two nations.
Turkish officials have said that relations with Israel will not improve until Israel apologizes for the killing last year of nine Turkish nationals aboard a boat that aimed to breach Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip.
Israel has stood by its blockade, and its position was recently bolstered by a U.N. report that found the blockade lawful. The same report, however, said that Israel had used unnecessary and excessive force in stopping boats aiming to break the blockade, including the storming of the Turkish Mavi Marmara ship by Israeli naval commandos, who killed the Turkish nationals.
American officials have tried unsuccessfully to negotiate an apology from Israel to Turkey over the incident. Relations had already soured over Israel's recent war in Gaza and a series of diplomatic snubs by Lieberman and his deputy.
In about 10 days, Israel likely will face another diplomatic hurdle when the Palestinians are expected to launch a bid for statehood at the U.N. General Assembly. Israel has been maneuvering to quash the bid — which the United States opposes and has threatened to veto — but Palestinians have said they'll go forward and attempt to win two-thirds support for an independent state that would include East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza.
Several European countries have signaled their willingness to vote in favor of the Palestinian state, putting Israel in a difficult position.
Palestinian legislator Hanan Ashrawi, who will help launch the bid at the U.N., told McClatchy that Israel had "put itself in a corner."
"We will go forward with this despite the threats from Israel and its allies. When the vote happens Israel will see how isolated it truly is," Ashrawi said. She added that the United States, Israel's main ally, would also be "embarrassed."
"I think the United States has been warned time and time again — from its own people — that its partnership with Israel might not be in its best interest right now," she said. "But they continue to stand by Israel, and ignore the changes in the region that the Arab Spring is bringing."
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/09/10/123733/israel-facing-diplomatic-tsunami.html
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http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/33a386d8-dc83-11e0-8654-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1XhMHkPuK
Heck of a job Obama!
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(http://www.goatse.bz/goatse.jpg)
stop bumping the thread that no one reads or there will be more...
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Cairo Mob Attacked CNN: 'They Were Animals
INM ^ | 9/11/11 | Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu
Posted on September 11, 2011 11:19:11 AM EDT by Nachum
CNN journalists described the Friday mob that attacked them during the riot at the Israeli embassy as “animals.” One other journalist was called a spy and almost was raped.
The worldwide news site reported a scene that brought back ugly memories of the gang rape of CBS reporter Lara Logan earlier this year during the Arab spring uprising against the Mubarak regime.
CNN reported that one person in the mob on Friday called Dina Amer, a woman member of another American crew, “a spy.” A CNN producer who is an Egyptian approached to rescue the woman from the rioters, but “the mob overwhelmed the pair,” the network reported.
"I was thinking, how powerless I was because there was no police to save us," said the producer, Mohammed Fadel Fahmy. "I was worried that they were going to rape her."
Someone shouted to Fahmy that there was a nearby car, and he brought the “spy” into the vehicle, which belonged to a television crew.
(Excerpt) Read more at israelnationalnews.com ...
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Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood: The Attack on Israeli Embassy – A Legitimate Act of Protest
MEMRI ^ | 9-13-11 | September 12, 2011
While many in Egypt have condemned the September 9, 2011 attack on the Israeli embassy in Cairo,[1] various voices in the Muslim Brotherhood have justified it. They called it an understandable reaction to the Egyptian authorities' "feeble" and "helpless" response to the August 18, 2011 incident on the Egypt-Israel border, in which several Egyptian soldiers were killed.
It should be noted that in the weeks since the incident, the Muslim Brotherhood has taken an active role in stirring up widespread popular protest against Israel. The movement called to reassess the relationship with Israel and the peace agreement with it, and some of its leaders expressed disappointment with Egypt's official response to the August incident, calling for a military reaction commensurate with the Israeli's military action on the border.[2]
On August 19, some 200 Muslim Brotherhood activists held a protest rally in front of the Israeli embassy. Dr. Saleh Sultan, a shari'a lecturer at Cairo University and head of the Jerusalem Committee of the International Union of Muslim Scholars (IUMS), who is close to the Muslim Brotherhood, said at this rally that any Egyptian who meets a Zionist in Egypt is entitled to kill him, just as Israel has killed the Camp David Accords.[3] On another occasion Dr. Sultan called to kill the Israeli ambassador.[4]
Muslim Brotherhood Secretary-General Dr. Mahmoud Hussein said it is unreasonable that the Egypt-Israel peace agreement should remain as it is, complete with the ban on Egyptian forces in Sinai, while Israel continues to do as it pleases with this agreement. He called to reassess the agreement (though not to revoke it), and to bring it to referendum after removing all the clauses that undermine Egyptian sovereignty.[5] The Muslim Brotherhood website posted articles calling the peace agreement futile and urging support for the Palestinian resistance and to prepare for an inevitable confrontation with the "Zionist entity."[6]
Muslim Brotherhood: The Attack – A Response to Authorities' Helplessness
A communiqué by the Muslim Brotherhood's Justice and Freedom party stated that the attack on the embassy constituted "legitimate protest against the Zionist entity and its crimes," and added: "What happened in front of the embassy of the Zionist entity is proof of the ongoing popular opposition [in Egypt] to normalization with the occupation state. [The incident] must prompt a reassessment of the relations between Egypt and Israel, and their character. The [Egyptian] people's message must reach [the ears of] the Israeli occupation [state], which has to realize that Egypt has changed, along with the entire region, and that there is no longer any room in the Arab region for arrogance and aggression..."[7]
A communiqué by the Muslim Brotherhood movement stated: "The tardy and acquiescent reaction [of the Egyptian authorities] to the Zionists' killing of our martyred soldiers on the border; the lack of a firm response and the reluctance to recall the [Egyptian] ambassador [from Israel]; the arrogance of the Zionists, who refuse to even apologize; and the erection of a heavy cement barrier to protect the embassy – these are the main factors that triggered the outburst of national sentiment in the Egyptians [who stormed the embassy]. In handling this [affair], the authorities – both the interim administration and the [permanent] civilian administration to be formed – must comply with the people's will and honor it..."[8]
Muslim Brotherhood spokesman Dr. Mahmoud Ghazlan said, "The invasion of the embassy was a reaction to the helplessness of the Egyptian decision makers, [who failed] to dispel the protesters' impression that the position of the current regime is similar to that of the Mubarak regime when it comes to Egyptian blood – [blood] which Israel has become accustomed to spilling with impunity, for there is nothing to deter it [from doing so]." He added that had the Supreme Council of the Egyptian Armed Forces (SCAF) decided to recall the ambassador from Tel Aviv or to demand an Israeli apology, the affair would have ended there, but "Egypt's helplessness – diametrically opposed to the Turkish firmness – drove the young people to take upon themselves to avenge the martyrs of Sinai."[9]
Article on Muslim Brotherhood Website: If It Weren't for the American Intervention, Egypt Could Have Taught Israel a Lesson in Morality
Egyptian intellectual Dr. Hilmi Muhammad Al-Qa'oud wrote on the Muslim Brotherhood website: "Thankfully, the Egyptian people tore down the cement separation barrier [that kept] the public away from the building that houses the embassy of the murderous Nazi Jewish invaders, and the Zionist flag was once again taken down and burned... [That] new barrier [erected] in the heart of Cairo reveals many things.
"The speed with which the barrier went up reflects contempt for the [spilled] Egyptian blood, and [shows] how cheap it is [considered], compared with the blood of the Jewish invaders in occupied Palestine. The Jewish Nazi military apparatus has waged several wars on the Gaza Strip, killing over 1,500 Palestinians, wounding over 5,000 men, women and children, and destroying hundreds of homes, schools, mosques and [other] institutions – all for the sake of one single Jewish Nazi soldier called Gilad Shalit, captured by the Palestinian jihad fighters in one of their operations against the Jewish Nazi occupier.
"The handling [of the incident] on the border in which five soldiers were killed... which was premeditated and preplanned [by Israel], shows that the policy of the previous era, [namely] the policy of swallowing the humiliations dished out by the Jewish Nazis, still continues and is impossible to change [even] after the January revolution. [This is evident from the fact that,] in the evening [following the incident], the government announced it would recall the Egyptian ambassador [from Tel Aviv], and the next morning it denied this. [So] instead of being expelled, the Nazi Jewish ambassador spoke boldly and insolently, saying that he would not leave Cairo but stay there, in defiance of the Egyptians...
"When the Jewish Nazi [defense] minister Ehud Barak expressed sorrow about his country's 'killing' – rather than 'murder' – of the Egyptian soldiers, some of the regime's mouthpieces spread [the false claim] that the Jewish Nazi invaders had [actually] apologized for their crime against Egypt and its sons. This [claim] is surprising considering that this minister [Barak] had declared, with his customary insolence, that his occupying entity [i.e., Israel] would not apologize to anyone.
"The Egyptians' [decision to] stand up and set out towards the enemy's embassy, in order to protest the abandonment of the Egyptian border and the murder of Egyptian soldiers, was a natural response that embarrassed the enemy. This situation could have been used to force the Jewish murderers to apologize. [It could have been used] to teach them [a lesson] in morality in front of the world, and to amend the submissive agreement signed at Camp David in a way that would protect our soldiers and our border, stop the Nazi Jewish rampaging in Rafah and its environs, and give the Egyptian people a voice and a presence in confronting these murderers and their constant cheap bargaining. Unfortunately, following the American intervention, the Egyptian authorities discarded this trump card, [exchanging it] for promises that will never be kept...
"When the invading Jewish Nazis announced they would not apologize to the Egyptian people or to anyone else, the Turks launched crucial diplomatic measures aimed at humiliating the murderous Jewish invaders [and pushing their noses] in the dirt. Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu announced the expelling of the Jewish Nazi ambassador from Ankara and the freezing of [all] military agreements with the Jewish Nazi invaders. Turkish President 'Abdallah Ghul announced that the relations between Turkey and the Jewish Nazi invaders would not return to what they were until the invaders apologized for killing the nine Turks [on the Mavi Marmara], compensated their families and the families of the wounded, and lifted the criminal siege on the Gaza Strip.
"The Egyptian regime did not adopt this progressive Turkish position, preferring instead to continue the policy of the regime that has passed from the world [i.e., the Mubarak regime], which the invading Jews had regarded as a strategic asset. Moreover, some voices repeated the same old mantra: Do you want us to enter into a war unprepared?... [But] a political confrontation does not mean war. Egypt holds important trump cards that will force the murderous Jewish invaders to cave in and give Egypt what it wants [even] without war.
"The Jewish Nazi invaders know full well that it is they who benefit from the economic, trade, agricultural, and political ties with Egypt, and that should Egypt freeze these ties, partially or fully, it is they who stand to lose the most. But our top leaders ignored all this and remained as silent as corpses, and the martyrs' blood was spilled in vain... Whatever the situation, the Egyptian people always has the ability to fix it so as to protect its honor and its existence, as it did on September 9, 2011..."[10]
Articles in Hamas Newspaper: The Embassy Breach Heralds Israel's Impending Demise
As of this writing, Hamas has refrained from releasing an official response to the attack on the Israeli embassy in Cairo. However, two columnists for the daily Falastin, which is affiliated with the movement, claimed that the incident was a sign that Israel would soon be swept away by the "Arab tsunami," and that it also exemplified how this will occur: masses of Palestinian refugees from the surrounding countries will storm Israel's borders, forcing the Jewish Israelis to flee back to their countries of origin.
Columnist 'Issam Shawir wrote: "For the embassy of the Zionist enemy to exist among millions of Egyptians is unnatural. What is natural is for the people to revolt and for the Zionist ambassador and diplomatic staff to flee, [and for the Egyptians] to use [the embassy's] secret documents [as wrappers] to sell falafel and corn on the cob. This incident was delayed by the regimes that ruled Egypt from before the era of the tyrant 'Abd Al-Nasser and up until the Mubarak [era]. What happened to the Israeli embassy in Cairo is a small-scale example of what will happen to the occupation state [that has been] planted in an Arab and Islamic ocean, whose waves have begun to rise and whose rumble has began to grow louder. Unable to withstand [this tsunami], the occupation state will fall just like the wall around the Israeli embassy.
"This is why the Arab revolution does not benefit the peace between the occupation state and the Arabs, as the president of the [Zionist] entity, Shimon Peres, and others have repeatedly claimed; rather, it benefits peace among the Arab peoples, which will not be realized until the occupation state is gone... There can be no coexistence and no peace with those who occupy Palestine, defile Al-Aqsa, burn our mosques, murder our people, and insult our prophet night and day.
"The occupation state has only two bad [options to choose from]: to get out or to perish. This is the inevitable end of the usurping entity. That being said, the occupation state can live out its last years – until the Arab tsunami strikes it – in security and peace, if it gives in to the conditions of its surroundings. There is, after all, a general consensus about accepting a long term hudna [truce] – providing that Israel withdraws from the territories it occupied in 1967, removes all the settlements in the West Bank and Jerusalem, and ceases its crimes against the Palestinian people without waiting for a Palestinian recognition of its occupation of the territories [taken in] 1948. After all, no one is authorized to relinquish even an inch of Palestinian soil, since Palestine is Islamic waqf [religious endowment] land that does not belong solely to the Palestinians or to the peace propagandists.
"The temporary hudna plan is the common denominator [agreed upon by] the PLO, the Arab peace initiative, and the Islamic Resistance/Hamas. The occupation state must accept reality, especially considering its [current] bleak situation, in which it is unable to impose its own terms and dictates."[11]
Columnist Mustafa Al-Sawwaf wrote in the daily Falastin: "The events at the 'Israeli' embassy in Cairo – the rush on it following the destruction of the wall [around it] and the ascent to the building's 20th floor, where the embassy is located – constitute a living example of how 'Israel' will end. The separation barrier [in the West Bank], which is similar to the embassy wall, cannot prevent [the Palestinians] from charging the borders at the proper time, and no force can stand up to the will of the peoples, nor can American or Western defense stop the [people] from storming the separation barrier and the border [fences] in order to remove them and restore Palestine to its people.
"I can envision how the Israelis will act before and during the rush [on the borders], and how hundreds of planes, warships, and giant sea vessels will stream out of Palestine like locusts... transporting the Israelis, day and night, back to their countries of origin from whence they came to plunder Palestine – the American to America, the French to France, and the Pole to Poland. Thus will Palestine be liberated from its usurpers, and whoever remains will be treated in accordance with his situation: if he is peaceful and has no wish to fight, the Palestinians will transport him to whatever land he wishes; but if he is a combatant, the sword will swing, and the heads of the combatants will roll in a battle that, we suspect, will not last very long or to claim many lives.
"[It will be] exactly like it was in Cairo airport on Saturday night, when special planes were brought in to carry the Israelis [back] to the airport in occupied Lod... [The diplomatic staff] fled the fury of the Egyptian masses, despite the protection the Egyptian military could have provided them. They insisted on fleeing, and the Egyptian military provided them protection only [on their way] from their hiding places to Cairo airport, which took serious security measures both before and during the [Israelis'] escape.
"The Jews thought their fences would protect them. [They thought] their high wall would thwart those who came to end the historic and [in]human oppression that Zionism has inflicted upon the Palestinian people and land, with the help of the oppressive world, which will not be able to keep this oppression from ending... True are the words of Allah in Surat Al-Hashr, Verse 2: 'He it is Who caused those who disbelieved of the followers of the Book to go forth from their homes at the first banishment you did not think that they would go forth, while they were certain that their fortresses would defend them against Allah; but Allah came to them whence they did not expect, and cast terror into their hearts; they demolished their houses with their own hands and the hands of the believers; therefore take a lesson, O you who have eyes! [Koran 59:2]'"[12]
Endnotes:
[1] The majority of political forces in Egypt denounced the attack, including presidential candidates and various political parties, as well as Islamic and Salafi organizations, saying that the violent nature of the attack ran counter to the spirit of the revolution and tarnished its image. For example, presidential candidate Dr. Muhammad Salim Al-'Awa said that the attack harmed Egypt. The attack was also condemned in many press articles. Journalist Mahmoud Al-Noubi wrote in the daily Al-Ahram that, though he is opposed to the peace agreement with Israel, Egypt should have upheld the diplomatic immunity of the Israeli embassy. Al-Ahram (Egypt), September 11, 2011.
[2] Al-Yawm Al-Sabi' (Egypt), August 20, 2011; ikhwanonline.com, August 19, 2011.
[3] Al-Shurouq (Egypt), August 19, 2011.
[4] Al-Yawm Al-Sabi' (Egypt), August 27, 2011
[5] Ikhwanonline.com, August 22, 2011.
[6] See for example an article by Egyptian journalist Samir Al-Wasimi posted on ikhwanonline.com on August 21, 2011.
[7] Hurryh.com, September 10, 2011.
[8] Ikhwanonline.com, September 10, 2011.
[9] Moheet.com, September 10, 2011.
[10] Ikhwanonline.com, September 10, 2011.
[11] Falastin (Gaza), September 11, 2011.
[12] Falastin (Gaza), September 11, 2011.
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Egyptian human rights group notes ‘sharp decline’ in freedom of expression
BNO News ^ | Sept. 25, 2011
Posted on September 25, 2011 2:08:57 PM EDT by Free ThinkerNY
CAIRO (BNO NEWS) -- A human rights group on Sunday noted a 'sharp decline' in freedom of opinion and expression in Egypt following the ouster of President Hosni Mubarak during a revolution earlier this year.
The Cairo-based Arabic Network for Human Rights Information (ANHRI) condemned recent measures taken by the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (SCAF) which was handed the power to govern Egypt after the revolution resulted in the ouster of Mubarak in February.
Earlier this month, SCAF declared the return of Mubarak-era emergency laws after a weekend of violent clashes between protesters and police at the Israeli embassy in Cairo. However, SCAF is now also using emergency laws to prosecute new crimes such as 'infringing on others' right to work', 'impeding the flow of traffic', and 'spreading false information in the media'.
When SCAF took over to govern Egypt in February it had promised to end the controversial emergency laws which were originally set to expire later this year. Instead, SCAF has even extended the duration of these laws until May 2012.
(Excerpt) Read more at wireupdate.com ...
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I hope the Egyptians don't fuck this up
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U.S. Met With Egypt Islamists: U.S. Diplomat
Reuters ^ | 2 Oct 2011 | Edmund Blair
Posted on October 2, 2011 1:47:48 PM EDT by edpc
(Reuters) - U.S. officials have met members of the Muslim Brotherhood's political party, a U.S. diplomat said, after Washington announced it would have direct contacts with Egypt's biggest Islamist group whose role has grown since U.S. ally Hosni Mubarak was ousted.
(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...
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Egypt: Mob of 3,000 Islamists Attack Coptic Church, Destroy Christian Homes…
Weasel Zippers/CDN ^ | September 30, 2011 | Weasel Zippers
Posted on October 2, 2011 2:03:31 PM EDT by opentalk
The fruits of the “Arab Spring.”
CAIRO, Egypt, September 30 (CDN) —A group of hard-line Muslims attacked a church building in Upper Egypt this afternoon, torching the structure and then looting and burning nearby Christian-owned homes and businesses.
The 3,000-strong mob of hard-line and Salafi Muslims gutted the Mar Gerges Church in the Elmarenab village of Aswan, then demolished much of its remains, multiple witnesses at the scene said. The mob also razed four homes near the church and two businesses, all Christian-owned. Looting was also reported.
Michael Ramzy, a villager in Elmarenab, said the attack started shortly after Muslims held their afternoon prayers. “Imams in more than 20 mosques called for crowds to gather and destroy the church and demolish the houses of the Copts and loot their properties,” Ramzy told local media.
The Mar Gerges burning is the third church in Egypt in seven months to be burned down by a mob. Additionally, numerous other churches have been looted or otherwise attacked this year including a New Year’s Eve bombing at the Two Saints Church in Alexandria that left 23 dead and scores critically wounded.
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Egypt: Mob of 3,000 Islamists Attack Coptic Church, Destroy Christian Homes…
Weasel Zippers/CDN ^ | September 30, 2011 | Weasel Zippers
Posted on October 2, 2011 2:03:31 PM EDT by opentalk
The fruits of the “Arab Spring.”
CAIRO, Egypt, September 30 (CDN) —A group of hard-line Muslims attacked a church building in Upper Egypt this afternoon, torching the structure and then looting and burning nearby Christian-owned homes and businesses.
The 3,000-strong mob of hard-line and Salafi Muslims gutted the Mar Gerges Church in the Elmarenab village of Aswan, then demolished much of its remains, multiple witnesses at the scene said. The mob also razed four homes near the church and two businesses, all Christian-owned. Looting was also reported.
Michael Ramzy, a villager in Elmarenab, said the attack started shortly after Muslims held their afternoon prayers. “Imams in more than 20 mosques called for crowds to gather and destroy the church and demolish the houses of the Copts and loot their properties,” Ramzy told local media.
The Mar Gerges burning is the third church in Egypt in seven months to be burned down by a mob. Additionally, numerous other churches have been looted or otherwise attacked this year including a New Year’s Eve bombing at the Two Saints Church in Alexandria that left 23 dead and scores critically wounded.
the gov't has to do something about this and stop these things from occurring
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I hope the Egyptians don't fuck this up
the gov't has to do something about this and stop these things from occurring
You can't be this clueless and naive , can you?
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24 dead in worst Cairo riots since Mubarak ouster
By MAGGIE MICHAEL - Associated Press | AP – 27 mins ago
CAIRO (AP) — Flames lit up downtown Cairo, where massive clashes raged Sunday, drawing Christians angry over a recent church attack, Muslims and Egyptian security forces. At least 24 people were killed and more than 200 injured in the worst sectarian violence since the uprising that ousted Hosni Mubarak in February.
The rioting lasted late into the night, bringing out a deployment of more than 1,000 security forces and armored vehicles to defend the state television building along the Nile, where the trouble began. The military clamped a curfew on the area until 7 a.m.
The clashes spread to nearby Tahrir Square, drawing thousands of people to the vast plaza that served as the epicenter of the protests that ousted Mubarak. On Sunday night, they battled each other with rocks and firebombs, some tearing up pavement for ammunition and others collecting stones in boxes.
At one point, an armored security van sped into the crowd, striking a half-dozen protesters and throwing some into the air. Protesters retaliated by setting fire to military vehicles, a bus and private cars, sending flames rising into the night sky.
After midnight, mobs roamed downtown streets, attacking cars they suspected had Christian passengers. In many areas, there was no visible police or army presence to confront or stop them.
Christians, who make up about 10 percent of Egypt's 80 million people, blame the country's ruling military council for being too lenient on those behind a spate of anti-Christian attacks since Mubarak's ouster. As Egypt undergoes a chaotic power transition and security vacuum in the wake of the uprising, the Coptic Christian minority is particularly worried about the show of force by ultraconservative Islamists.
Prime Minister Essam Sharaf, addressing the nation in a televised speech, said the violence threatened to throw Egypt's post-Mubarak transition off course.
"These events have taken us back several steps," he said. "Instead of moving forward to build a modern state on democratic principles we are back to seeking stability and searching for hidden hands — domestic and foreign — that meddle with the country's security and safety."
"I call on Egyptian people, Muslims and Christians, women and children, young men and elders to hold their unity," Sharaf said.
The Christian protesters said their demonstration began as a peaceful attempt to sit in at the television building. But then, they said, they came under attack by thugs in plainclothes who rained stones down on them and fired pellets.
"The protest was peaceful. We wanted to hold a sit-in, as usual," said Essam Khalili, a protester wearing a white shirt with a cross on it. "Thugs attacked us and a military vehicle jumped over a sidewalk and ran over at least 10 people. I saw them."
Wael Roufail, another protester, corroborated the account. "I saw the vehicle running over the protesters. Then they opened fired at us," he said.
Khalili said protesters set fire to army vehicles when they saw them hitting the protesters.
Ahmed Yahia, a Muslim resident who lives near the TV building, said he saw the military vehicle plow into protesters. "I saw a man's head split into two halves and a second body flattened when the armored vehicle ran over it. When some Muslims saw the blood they joined the Christians against the army," he said.
Television footage showed the military vehicle slamming into the crowd. Coptic protesters were shown attacking a soldier, while a priest tried to protect him. One soldier collapsed in tears as ambulances rushed to the scene to take away the injured.
At least 24 people were killed in the clashes, Health Ministry official Hisham Sheiha said on state TV.
State media reported that Egypt's interim Cabinet was holding an emergency session to discuss the situation.
The protest began in the Shubra district of northern Cairo, then headed to the state television building along the Nile where men in plainclothes attacked about a thousand Christian protesters as they chanted
denunciations of the military rulers.
"The people want to topple the field marshal!" the protesters yelled, referring to the head of the ruling military council, Field Marshal Hussein Tantawi. Some Muslim protesters later joined in the chant.
Later in the evening, a crowd of Muslims turned up to challenge the Christian crowds, shouting, "Speak up! An Islamic state until death!"
Armed with sticks, the Muslim assailants chased the Christian protesters from the TV building, banging metal street signs to scare them off. It was not immediately clear who the attackers were.
Gunshots rang out at the scene, where lines of riot police with shields tried to hold back hundreds of Christian protesters chanting, "This is our country!"
Security forces eventually fired tear gas to disperse the protesters. The clashes then moved to nearby Tahrir Square, the epicenter of the uprising against Mubarak. The army closed off streets around the area.
The clashes left streets littered with shattered glass, stones, ash and soot from burned vehicles. Hundreds of curious onlookers gathered at one of the bridges over the Nile to watch the unrest.
After hours of intense clashes, chants of "Muslims, Christians one hand, one hand!" rang out in a call for a truce. The stone-throwing died down briefly, but then began to rage again.
In the past weeks, riots have broken out at two churches in southern Egypt, prompted by Muslim crowds angry over church construction. One riot broke out near the city of Aswan, even after church officials
agreed to a demand by ultraconservative Muslims known as Salafis that a cross and bells be removed from the building.
Aswan's governor, Gen. Mustafa Kamel al-Sayyed, further raised tensions by suggesting to the media that the church construction was illegal.
Protesters said the Copts are demanding the ouster of the governor, reconstruction of the church, compensation for people whose houses were set on fire and prosecution of those behind the riots and attacks on
the church.
Last week, the military used force to disperse a similar protest in front of the state television building. Christians were angered by the treatment of the protesters and vowed to renew their demonstrations until their
demands are met.
http://news.yahoo.com/24-dead-worst-cairo-riots-since-mubarak-ouster-232452205.html
Liberal success!
The Arab winter is just beginning. Hope the true Egyptians, the Coptic Christians, are ready for it.
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Obama handled this situation beautifully.
Those dirty Christians deserved what they got. They should know better than to defend themselves or protest peacefully, or practice a different religion that Islam.
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Obama handled this situation beautifully.
Those dirty Christians deserved what they got. They should know better than to defend themselves or protest peacefully, or practice a different religion that Islam.
Indeed. They should know better than to not embrace the leftist/Islamist alliance. How dare they not bow down the almighty prophet.
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Clashes erupted after a protest outside the state TV building in Cairo
At least 17 people have been killed and scores injured after a protest in Cairo against an attack on a Coptic Christian church.
Egyptian TV showed protesters throwing petrol bombs and army vehicles burning outside the state television building.
Copts blame Muslim radicals for the partial demolition of a Coptic church in Aswan province last week.
Sectarian tensions have increased since President Hosni Mubarak was ousted in a popular uprising in February.
Egypt's Coptic Christians - who make up about 10% of the population - accuse the governing military council of being too lenient on the perpetrators of a string of anti-Christian attacks.
The protest on Sunday was calling on the council to sack the governor of Aswan province after the church was damaged on Friday.
(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.co.uk ...
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Obama handled this situation beautifully.
Those dirty Christians deserved what they got. They should know better than to defend themselves or protest peacefully, or practice a different religion that Islam.
Boehner said Obama did a good job on Egypt and handled the situation well....go speak to him
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;D
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The army has taken over and will not give up control.
Nice job, barry.
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Here's the best part of this: President Downgrade has demanded that the Coptic Christians show restraint. Not the Muslims! As they're being killed in the streets, this asshole demands that they roll over and die. The true Egyptians. Could this guy suck any more Muslim dick? They truly can do no wrong in the Messiah's eyes.
The imperialist Arab Muslims in Egypt should click their heels together and go back to Medina.
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Here's the best part of this: President Downgrade has demanded that the Coptic Christians show restraint. Not the Muslims! As they're being killed in the streets, this asshole demands that they roll over and die. The true Egyptians. Could this guy suck any more Muslim dick? They truly can do no wrong in the Messiah's eyes.
The imperialist Arab Muslims in Egypt should click their heels together and go back to Medina.
This was and is goal!
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Back to previous page
Smuggled Libyan weapons flood into Egypt
By Leila Fadel, Wednesday, October 12, 8:10 PM
EL ARISH, Egypt — Large caches of weapons from Libya are making their way across the Egyptian border and flooding black markets in Egypt’s already unstable Sinai Peninsula, according to current and former Egyptian military officials and arms traders in the Sinai.
Egyptian security officials have intercepted surface-to-air missiles, most of them shoulder-launched, on the road to Sinai and in the smuggling tunnels connecting Egypt to the Gaza Strip since Moammar Gaddafi fell from power in Libya in August, a military official in Cairo said. Arms traders said the weapons available on Sinai’s clandestine market include rockets and antiaircraft guns.
The seizures raise fresh concerns about security along the sensitive area that borders the Gaza Strip and Israel, at a time when unrest is roiling the region. The addition of shoulder-fired antiaircraft missiles to arsenals of Palestinian fighters in Gaza could add significantly to the threat against Israel, whose helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft frequently patrol the strip, which is controlled by the militant Islamist group Hamas.
“We don’t want to see Egypt as a pathway to smuggle weapons,” said Sameh Seif el-Yazal, a retired Egyptian general in military intelligence who said several surface-to-air missiles have been intercepted on the desert road from Libya to the Egyptian city of Alexandria and north on to Gaza. “We believe some Palestinian groups made a deal with Libyans to get special weapons such as shoulder-fired surface-to-air missiles.”
Concerns about security in the Sinai have been growing in Egypt and among Israeli and American officials, who have called on Egypt to do more to protect the sensitive area, which borders the Gaza Strip and Israel. In the months since Egypt’s January-February revolution, the pipeline that feeds natural gas to Israel has been attacked seven times by militants. A cross-border attack by assailants in August killed eight Israeli civilians and prompted an Israeli counterstrike that killed six Egyptian troops, including three who later died of their wounds
Palestinian militants in Gaza command a potent arsenal that includes surface-to-surface missiles capable of striking deep inside Israel. But they are not known to have employed more than rudimentary antiaircraft weapons.
Resistance by Bedouins
The vastness of the Sinai, with its deserts and mountains, poses a major challenge to efforts by Egyptian authorities to maintain security there. In recent months, Egypt has sent reinforcements, bringing the number of troops on the peninsula to 20,000, but it has struggled to gain control in an area governed by tribal customs and populated primarily by Bedouins, who distrust the government and call the shots.
A security official and an Egyptian brigadier general who served recently in the Sinai said the seizures have included ammunition, explosives, automatic weapons and caches of heavier arms, including Russian-made Strela-2 and Strela-3 heat-seeking, shoulder-fired antiaircraft missiles.
“We’ve intercepted more advanced weapons, and these weapons aren’t familiar to the Egyptian weapons markets; these are war weapons,” said the brigadier general, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.
U.S. officials are concerned that some of Libya’s vast trove of shoulder-fired antiaircraft missiles could end up in the hands of terrorists, who could use them against civilian jets. Gaddafi’s government had up to 20,000 of the missiles, according to U.S. estimates, and American authorities are working with Libya’s provisional government to track down what happened to them. Although thousands were thought to be destroyed in NATO bombing raids during the conflict this year, many missiles apparently were looted from unguarded warehouses in the chaos of the Libyan uprising.
The 1979 peace treaty between Egypt and Israel imposes strict limits on Egypt’s military presence in the Sinai, but Israel has signaled an openness to further troop increases there because of concerns about cross-border attacks and smuggling. Many Bedouins rely on smuggling as their main source of livelihood, delivering food, cement and other commodities to Gaza — which is under an Israeli blockade — for cash, even as Egyptian authorities have taken new steps to cut off the tunnels that lead into the zone.
The governor of northern Sinai, Maj. Gen. Abdel Wahab Mabrouk, could not be reached for comment, and the head of security in the peninsula, Maj. Gen. Saleh el-Masry, said he could not speak without special permission.
Here in northern Sinai, Bedouin tribes have long felt marginalized and neglected by the government. They point to the dozens of schools in their area with no teachers, the hospitals with no doctors and the lack of government protection as examples of the past regime’s neglect. They were also targeted and abused by police after attacks by religious extremists on tourist resorts in the Sinai in 2004 and 2005.
“There is a real kind of bitterness with the police,” said Yazal, the retired general. “North Sinai was completely ignored by the past regime for decades. They feel like second-class citizens.“
This feeling of vulnerability has created a strong motivation among Bedouins to take their security into their own hands by buying more weapons, which many fear will further destabilize the tense region.
Fears about safety, Islamists
Just a few miles from the Gaza border in Rafah, a Bedouin arms dealer known as Abu Ahmed said that weapons smuggling has been easy since Egypt’s 18-day uprising and that the Libyan unrest next door has created a virtually open border. Antiaircraft 14.5mm machine guns are readily available, he said. Shoulder-fired Stinger-like antiaircraft missiles also are available, he said, and their price has dropped from $10,000 to $4,000 because there are so many in the market.
Abu Ahmed estimates that the number of armed people in the Sinai has doubled in recent months, noting that the Bedouin tribes are stockpiling weapons in case the uprising that ousted President Hosni Mubarak does not succeed and the police try to target them again.
“Tribal leaders buy in bulk for the tribe and then sell what they don’t need,” he said.
Although there is no well-
defined armed Islamist movement in the peninsula, fliers have been distributed in the name of al-Qaeda in the Sinai calling for an Islamic emirate. In July, armed men carrying the black flags of holy war drove through the streets and attacked a police station in El Arish. A militant Islamist group known as Takfir wal-Hijra has a fledgling presence in the Sinai.
Egyptian officials have asked Sinai residents to register their weapons, but those requests are derided in a region where the authorities are mistrusted.
“If everything was safe and secure, I would register my weapons,” said Waleed, a Bedouin in his 20s who insisted he be identified only by his first name. He said he had bought an antiaircraft gun for $15,000, partly for security and partly because it looked cool, then mounted it on his Land Cruiser. “But, right now, we don’t know. My home, my business and the women of our family are everything to us, and we have to secure ourselves.”
Staff writer Mary Beth Sheridan in Washington and special correspondents Ingy Hassieb and Ahmed Abu Deraa contributed to this report.
© The Washington Post Company
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October 12, 2011
Arab Spring Leads to Second Exodus
http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2011/10/12/arab-spring-leads-to-second-exodus
As a horrified world watched coverage of Christian demonstrators dying at the hands of Egyptian soldiers this week, it underlined the possibility that the Arab Spring might permanently change Egypt after all. Coptic Christians, who have lived in the Land of the Pharaohs since Biblical times, are making an Exodus in all directions. The La Stampa affiliated site Vatican Insider reports:
Since March, increased religious tension in Egypt has led to the emigration of about 100 thousand Christians. The Egyptian Union of human rights organisations has spoken out against this, saying that this mass exodus could alter the Country’s demography as well as its economic stability…
According to analysts, this high rate of emigration is mostly a consequence of the Arab Spring revolts which began in December 2010 and are supposed to have boosted the power held by the Islamic component within Egyptian society.
Egypt’s Copts welcomed Islamic forces as liberators in the 7th century AD; the Orthodox Church considered the Copts to be a heretical sect and under the Byzantine emperors the Copts faced persecution. Since then, relations with Muslims have had their ups and downs and in recent centuries Copts have been outsiders in Egyptian society: prosperous enough to have influence, but not populous enough to demand equal treatment as a matter of right. They depend on the ruling establishment for protection but are also convenient scapegoats for governments which rule by playing competing factions against one another.
Religious tension has grown as the Egyptian ‘revolution’ stagnates. Rising economic problems stir up anger against a religious minority many Egyptians feel benefited from special treatment during the Mubarak years. Competition over land and water in the south often pits Muslim and Christian villages and villagers against one another. Some of the Islamists reaching for political power in Egypt today are less sympathetic to the concerns of the Copts than others are.
Christian emigration from the Middle East is not new. For the last 150 years Christians have fled the region in droves. Some have gone to seek better opportunities in richer countries; some have grown weary of the chronic poverty, tyranny and strife that has characterized so much of the region for so long; others have fled waves of persecution, discrimination and murder that have periodically erupted against the region’s Christian minorities since the 19th century.
Most recently, Christians have fled the chaos, violence and persecution they have experienced in Iraq even as Palestinian Christians have been escaping the confluence of Israeli occupation and rising Islamic militancy.
The flight of the Copts (should the current flow of emigrants grow) would be a bigger deal. There are more than 8 million Copts and the outflow since March has amounted to slightly more than one percent of the total. Should the numbers wishing to leave increase (not unlikely after the recent violence in Cairo), it is not clear where many of them could go. The pattern in the Middle East in these circumstances has been that the wealthier and better connected Christians get out, while poorer ones experience massacres and forced conversions.
But the Copts are more than a significant demographic presence in Egypt; they are an important pillar of the country’s economy — and of its embattled liberal tradition in politics.
An Egypt without Copts, like so much of the Middle East that has steadily been losing the cultural and social diversity that once so enriched it, would be a narrower, poorer, more radical and less hopeful place. If the chief legacy of the Egyptian revolution is the destruction of this historic minority, future historians will likely judge it a step backward. A picture of former President Mubarak in a cage may make the front pages, but the destruction of the Copts will do more to define Egypt’s future.
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Obama’s Christian problem: WH overlooks Christian persecution while pandering to Islam
The Washington Times ^ | October 12, 2011 | The Editors
The Obama administration has been obsessed with Muslim outreach and recently tried to mend fences with the Jewish community. Given the state of the world, however, the White House ought to be focused on helping the world’s oppressed Christians.
The United States has been wary to intervene in matters affecting Christians in the Middle East for fear of validating terrorist narratives that the West is engaged in a new crusade against Islam. The result of this passive policy has been to allow Islamic extremists increasingly to dominate the debate, often with tragic consequences.
On Sunday in Egypt, a clash between Coptic Christians and the military left at least 25 dead. Copts are the largest religious minority in Egypt, representing about 10 percent of the population. Attacks on the Copts have increased since former President Hosni Mubarak’s ouster.
--snip--
According to Gallup, the president is lauded by the Islamic-American community, with 80 percent approval, but Muslims are a fraction of a percent of the population and an insignificant electoral base. Among major Christian groups, Catholics gave 50 percent approval, Protestants (representing over half the U.S. population) 37 percent, and Mormons 25 percent.
Those who are more devout give Mr. Obama lower marks than those for whom religion is unimportant. According to the most recent Gallup data, Mr. Obama has 43 percent approval of those who attend church “seldom or never,” which is 2 points above that survey’s national average. Among those who attend church weekly, his approval rate is 34 percent, seven points below average. It’s no mystery why America’s Christian faithful have little faith in Mr. Obama.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
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Published on The New Republic (http://www.tnr.com)
For Young Women, a Horrifying Consequence of Mubarak’s Overthrow
Betwa Sharma October 29, 2011 | 12:00 am
Cairo—Ali, a 34-year-old Cairo businessman who asked that his real name not be used, is weighing whether or not to circumcise his 12-year-old daughter. Female circumcision, or female genital mutilation (FGM), as it also known, involves removing part or the entire clitoris. In more severe forms of the procedure, the labia minora is removed and the vaginal opening is stitched up. Ali’s wife has told him about her own experience; describing her story to me, he said, “It is her most terrible memory.” He has heard discussions on television of potential harm the procedure can cause, but he feels a responsibility to protect the chastity of his daughter until she is married. Three thousand years of tradition instruct him that circumcision is the best means to this end. And, in the post-Mubarak Egypt, there are fewer and fewer voices offering an alternative view. The decades-long movement to stop FGM has become a casualty of the power struggle in Egypt.
The campaign to end FGM in Egypt was fighting an uphill battle before the revolution. Although FGM was outlawed in 2007 after a 12-year-old girl died from the procedure, the practice is still widespread. Despite efforts to reduce it, the number of girls aged 15 to 17 who underwent FGM only dropped from 77 percent in 2005 to 74 percent in 2008, according to the 2008 Egypt Demographic and Health Survey (EDHS). EDHS also showed that 91 percent of all women in Egypt between the ages of 15 and 49 have undergone FGM. The practice is common not only among Muslims, but also in the Christian community, which constitutes 10 percent of the Egyptian population. A sanitized version of FGM has gained increased prevalence in recent years, presenting additional challenges. In 1995, only 45 percent of all FGM operations were conducted by doctors; by 2008, the percentage had risen to 72 percent. A young woman working as a maid and living in Cairo, who asked to be referred to only as Ayesha, did not even know that FGM is illegal. Her mother had put her through the procedure, and she told me that she would do the same. (Experts have found that the practice is mostly perpetuated by mothers making decisions for their daughters.) “Unless someone can show me what is wrong with it I don’t think there is any reason to change,” she said.
Since the revolution, international support for this fight has significantly waned. Political instability has led to a 75 percent cut in Egypt’s FGM-related donor funds to the United Nations since January, according to Marta Agosti, the head of the anti-FGM program for the U.N.Changeover among government ministers has also slowed official work. The National Council for Childhood and Motherhood, the government body charged with addressing the problem, was shuttered after the revolution, and there is concern among activists that the capacity of the Council will shrink in its new home under the Ministry of Health. Instability and a lack of funds have curtailed the day-to-day work of NGOs; less field work and fewer workshops are taking place, according to Agosti.
In addition to the general shrinking of U.N. and NGO funds and efforts, the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood as one of the strongest political forces attempting to fill the void left by Mubarak’s departure presents potential obstacles to the campaign to end FGM. While the Muslim Brotherhood does not have an official position on FGM, the group has, in the past, opposed a complete ban on the practice. “Nothing in Islam forbids circumcision,” said Saad El Katani, the leader of the Brotherhood in parliament in 2008. Some members of the Brotherhood have argued that opposition to a complete ban does not indicate support of the practice, but they generally don’t speak out against it.
For instance, Manal Abul-Hassan, a female leader of the Muslim Brotherhood who plans to run for parliamentary elections in November, told me that FGMis “not halal (permissible) and it’s not a haram (forbidden).” She does not favor its complete ban and disagrees with the U.N. characterization of FGM as a human rights violation. (Many parents share Hassan’s view and reject the word “mutilation”—especially for procedures like removing the excess skin around the clitoris. Young women argue that certain kinds of circumcisions are no different from plastic surgery in the West.) Like others in the Muslim Brotherhood, Hassan sees the campaign against FGM as stealth promotion by NGOs of a Western agenda. Activists fear that the more traditionalist elements in the group pose a threat to their work—that attitudes like the one expressed by Hassan might harden to condone the procedure.
In addition, activists are also fighting the shadow of Suzanne Mubarak, who, for all her husband’s transgressions, was a force behind the campaign to end FGM. As the former dictator’s wife,Mubarak gave speeches and organized conferences opposing the practice, making her one of the most recognizable faces in the international fight against FGM. She played a key role in getting Christian and Muslim religious leaders to forbid the procedure, which had a far greater impact than the legal ban. After declaring their position, the fatwa office in Cairo—the office of the Grand Mufti of Egypt—set up a hotline; several anecdotes emerged about women changing their decision to go ahead with the practice based on advice they received from this hotline. Activists assert that their efforts to eliminate FGM were well underway before Suzanne Mubarak demonstrated interest in the issue. “We didn’t wait for Madame Mubarak to talk about FGM,” Sidhom Magdi, head of the Egyptian Association for Comprehensive Development, told me. But they do not deny that her involvement gave the movement political momentum that it had previously lacked.
Now, however, anything attached to the Mubaraks’ legacy is, if not explicitly tainted, an easy target. Civil society groups characterize Mubarak’s efforts as self-promoting. “She was devoid of a feminist vision or a socialist vision,” said Nihad Abu Kumsan, a lawyer and head of the Egyptian Centre for Women’s Rights. Hassan insists that FGM-related figures were exaggerated by the Egyptian government so that the former first lady could pocket international funds. “Suzanne Mubarak used these numbers to make money and steal money,” she told me. While most activists were not Mubarak supporters, the backlash troubles them. Agosti worries that Suzanne Mubarak’s previous involvement will “become an excuse to undo all the past work.”
For years, activists combating FGM in Egypt have described their fight as “painfully slow.” In the post-revolution Egypt, the process has become glacial. “We have no leader and we have no strategy,” said Kumsan. The U.N., aware of that the issue is a minefield, is also keeping a low profile for the time being. “We have to be very careful right now as we don’t want the issue to be captured by the ultra-orthodox,” said Agosti, expressing a fear that the U.N. will be characterized as an agency promoting the Western agenda or worse, Mubarak’s legacy.
Ali, the Cairo businessman, and his wife ultimately decided against FGM for their daughter. “We don’t want to change what God has created,” he told me. In making this decision, Ali is already among the minority of parents who reject FGM. This minority is in danger of shrinking further in the new Egypt.
Betwa Sharma is a New York-based journalist who covers human rights. Her work can be found at www.betwasharma.com.
Source URL: http://www.tnr.com/article/world/96555/egypt-genital-mutilation-fgm-muslim-brotherhood
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Obama 2012- Because your 12 year old daughter doesn't need her clitoris!
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Obama 2012- Because your 12 year old daughter doesn't need her clitoris!
I'm sure you need yours
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Obviously the Mubarak overthrow was worse for American interests, no doubt about that, but what did Obama have to do with it?
Maybe I missed that part, but I thought we just stayed out of it?
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I'm sure you need yours
::)
Nice second grade comeback. Andre = Clear and convincing evidence that most Obama supporters are morons.
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This is another obama scam gone to shit just like we said it would. Too bad the used tampons like 180 and andre can't see how stupid they look.
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Egypt: Coptic Bishop: “Christians are currently experiencing their worst time in recent centuries"
ACN News ^ | 31st October 2011
Posted on October 30, 2011 8:58:46 PM EDT by markomalley
Bishop Anba Stephanos (Orthodox Coptic) of Beba and ElfashnChristians in Egypt are currently experiencing their worst time in recent centuries. This statement was made by the Coptic Orthodox Bishop Stephanos of Beba and Elfashn to the international Catholic charity Aid to the Church in Need (ACN). Christians are being violently killed under the eyes of the international media. Also, for the first time in many years, churches are being systematically burned and destroyed. The police are taking no action and nobody is punished for it. In the Egyptian media, “the facts are systematically covered up in order to keep the international media from reporting the truth and bringing pressure from outside,” he complained. However, video films showing the massacre of demonstrators on 9 October were broadcast by the three television stations operated by the Coptic Church and have thus also found their way into the international media. This time the attacks on Copts “have been better documented”.
Problems are also experienced in day-to-day life because calls are often made in the media not to buy from Christian merchants or to sell anything to Christians. Businessmen are therefore faced with a struggle for economic survival. Christians are indirectly excluded from employment, for example by job advertisements specifying “a female employee with headscarf”. Attempts are being made “to drive the Christians out”.
The Bishop warned against placing too much hope in the elections that are planned to take place in Egypt at the end of November. The future is “absolutely unclear”, he said. Nevertheless, in his view the Copts can “play a major role” because they are “numerically strong”.
Bishop Stephanos underlined the need for mutual solidarity among Christians. Jesus Christ said that we are all of one body. When one limb suffers, all the others suffer with it. Asked about his hopes for the future, the Bishop said: “We pray for freedom and peace, not only for Egypt but for the whole world.” If peace existed, the consequence would be that such problems would no longer arise. Nevertheless, all Coptic Christians are “prepared for martyrdom, as at the beginnings of Christianity.” From childhood onwards they hold close ties to their Church, which they regard as “their mother”. They would “support their country and their Church without any hesitation.”
Egypt has a total population of some 76 million, of whom 12 million are Christians. The majority of these belong to the Coptic Orthodox Church. Nearly 200,000 are catholic.
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This is another obama scam gone to shit just like we said it would. Too bad the used tampons like 180 and andre can't see how stupid they look.
I can't believe you dare direct this comment at anyone else :o
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I can't believe you dare direct this comment at anyone else :o
You better believe it. You have mad an utter ass of yourself.
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You better believe it. You have mad an utter ass of yourself.
me thinks you are the ass...50,000 posts ranting on a guy who could care less =wasted life :-\
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me thinks you are the ass...50,000 posts ranting on a guy who could care less =wasted life :-\
Hey - i have an idea for your dumb 95% stupid ass. Why not take yourself to Lybia and see how you are treated over there now that Gadafi is gone?
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Grand Mufti of Egypt: Friendly ties between Tehran, Cairo benefit Muslim world
IMRA ^ | 10-31-11
Grand Mufti of Egypt: Friendly ties between Tehran, Cairo benefit Muslim world
Egypt’s Mufti: Friendly ties between Tehran, Cairo benefit Muslim world
EE staff Al-Masry Al-Youm Sat, 29/10/2011 - 15:16
http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/node/509918
Ali Gomaa, the Grand Mufti of Egypt, has highlighted the necessity of establishing good relations between Tehran and Cairo, and said such ties would the benefit the whole Muslim world.
"The resumption of these relations and their return to their normal track is undoubtedly beneficial to the Islamic world and Muslims," Gomma told the Iranian Fars News Agency (FNA) on Saturday.
Gomaa said that care must be taken to differentiate the statements and actions of a few who seek to stir up differences and sectarian strife among Muslims from the many others who want to strengthen unity in the Islamic world.
Shia Iran and mainly Sunni Egypt severed ties in 1980 following Iran's Islamic revolution and Egypt's recognition of Israel. Both have competed for influence in the Middle East.
Egypt has long been an ally of the United States and Israel but since Hosni Mubarak resigned from the presidency on 11 February signs have indicated that relations between Cairo and Tehran are warming.
After the collapse of Mubarak's regime, Iranian and Egyptian officials voiced interest in resuming diplomatic relations and Iranian Foreign Minister Ali Akbar Salehi officially invited his then Egyptian counterpart, Nabil Al-Araby, to visit Tehran.
The first publicly announced meeting between officials from both countries since Mubarak handed power to the army occurred in May, and Araby said after meeting Iranian official Mugtabi Amani that Cairo is ready to re-establish diplomatic ties with Tehran.
The Iranian foreign minister and his former Egyptian counterpart also held a meeting in Bali, Indonesia in August.
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73 get suspended terms for Israel embassy attack (Egyptian military court acquits two others)
Yahoo ^ | 10/31/11 | AFP
An Egyptian military court on Monday handed down six-month suspended jail sentences to 73 people accused of involvement in an attack on the Israeli embassy in September, a military source said.
Two other people were acquitted.
The September 9-10 attack on the Israeli embassy in Cairo by a crowd angered by Israel's killing of Egyptian policemen on the border forced the evacuation of staff including ambassador Yitzhak Levanon.
Three people were killed and more than 1,000 wounded, including 300 policemen, in clashes between protesters and security forces outside the embassy.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
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Top Muslim Declares All Christians ‘Infidels’ [Egypt]
FrontPage Magazine ^ | Nov 1st, 2011 | Raymond Ibrahim
To what extent was Egypt’s Maspero massacre, wherein the military literally mowed down Christian Copts protesting the ongoing destruction of their churches, a product of anti-Christian sentiment?
A video of Egypt’s grand mufti, Sheikh Ali Gomaa (or Gom’a), which began circulating weeks before the massacre, helps elucidate. While holding that Muslims may coexist with Christians (who, as dhimmis, have rights), Gomaa categorized Christians as kuffar — “infidels” — a word that connotes “enemies,” “evil-doers,” and every bad thing to Muslim ears.
After quoting Quran 5:17, “Infidels are those who declare God is the Christ, [Jesus] son of Mary,” he expounded by saying any association between a human and God (in Arabic, shirk) is the greatest sin: “Whoever thinks the Christ is God, or the Son of God, not symbolically — for we are all sons of God — but attributively, has rejected the faith which God requires for salvation,” thereby becoming an infidel.
Gomaa then offered a hypothetical dialogue between Christians and Muslims to illustrate Islam’s proper position:
Christians: You have the wrong idea about us; we don’t worship the Christ.
Muslims: Okay, fine; we were under the wrong impression — but, by the way: “Infidels are those who declare God is the Christ, son of Mary.”
Christians: But these are philosophical matters that we are unable to explain.
Muslims: Okay, fine; God is one—but, by the way: “Infidels are those who declare God is the Christ, son of Mary.”
As a graduate of and long-time professor at Al Azhar university and grand mufti of Egypt (a position second in authority only to Sheikh Al Azhar), Ali Gomaa represents mainstream Islam’s — not “radical Islam’s” or “Islamism’s” — position concerning the “other,” in this case, Christians. Regardless, many in the West hail him as a “moderate” — such as this U.S. News article titled “Finding the Voices of Moderate Islam“; Lawrence Wright describes him as “a highly promoted champion of moderate Islam”:
He is the kind of cleric the West longs for, because of his assurances that there is no conflict with democratic rule and no need for theocracy. Gomaa has also become an advocate for Muslim women, who he says should have equal standing with men.
How does one reconcile such sunny characterizations with reality? The fact is, whenever top Muslim authorities like Gomaa say something that can be made to conform to Western ideals, Westerners jump on it (while of course ignoring their more “extreme” positions). It is the same with Gomaa’s alma mater, Al Azhar, the “chief center of Islamic and Arabic learning in the world.”
MEMRI, for instance, recently published a report titled “The Sheikh of Al Azhar in an Exceptionally Tolerant Article: Christianity, Judaism Share Basic Tenets of Islam.” Of course, the day after this report appeared, this same sheikh — Islam’s most authoritative voice — insisted that the American ambassador wear a hijab when meeting him: just as Muslim “radicals” compel Christian girls to wear the hijab, “moderate” Al Azhar compels U.S. diplomats.
In short, yes, many religions “share basic tenets,” but they are secondary to the differences, which are more final and define the relationship. Or, to put it in Ali Gomaa’s paradigm: Fine, Christianity and Islam have commonalities — but, by the way: “Infidels are those who declare God is the Christ, son of Mary.”
The fact is, this Quranic verse is as much a cornerstone of Islam’s view of Christianity as the unity of God and Christ is a cornerstone of Christianity, articulated some 1700 years ago in the Nicene Creed. The issue is clear cut for all involved.
Accordingly, how can one fault Gomaa? As grand mufti, he is simply being true to Islam’s teachings. Indeed, his consistency is more commendable than the equivocations of Western ecumencalists who, by falling over themselves to assure Muslims that they all essentially believe in the same things, demonstrate, especially to Muslims, that they believe in nothing.
Incidentally, if Gomaa upholds the plain teachings of the Quran concerning who is an infidel, is it not fair to assume he also upholds the Quran’s teachings on how to confront them, as commanded in Quran 9: 29: “Fight … the People of the Book [Jews and Christians] until they pay the Jizya [tribute] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” Of course, prudent Muslims, undoubtedly like Gomaa himself, know that now is not the time to talk openly about such things.
Either way, here is another reminder of how Quranic verses and terms that Western people brush aside as arcane or irrelevant have a tremendous impact on current events — such as Egypt’s Maspero massacre: For the same word Gomaa, the nation’s grand mufti, used to describe Christians is the same word Muslim soldiers used when they opened fire on and ran over Christian Copts; the same word twenty Muslim soldiers used as they tortured a protesting Christian; and the same word Muslims hurled at Christians during the funeral procession for their loved ones slain at Maspero: Infidel.
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Article printed from FrontPage Magazine: http://frontpagemag.com
URL to article: http://frontpagemag.com/2011/11/01/top-muslim-declares-all-christians-%e2%80%98infidels%e2%80%99/
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U.S. hints it would not object to Brotherhood win in Egypt (How Special)
Montreal Gazette ^ | 11-4-11 | Driftwood1
Posted on November 4, 2011 11:39:56 PM EDT by Driftwood1
WASHINGTON - The United States would be "satisfied" if fair parliamentary elections in Egypt produced a Muslim Brotherhood victory, President Barack Obama's pointman for democratic transitions in the Middle East said Friday.
"I think the answer is yes, I think we will be satisfied, if it is a free and fair election," the newly appointed special co-ordinator for Middle East transitions, William Taylor, said when asked about what the U.S. reaction would be if the Islamist party comes out ahead in elections starting this month.
"What we need to do is judge people and parties and movements on what they do, not what they're called," Taylor told a forum at the Atlantic Council, a Washington think-tank.
In June Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said Washington had been in "limited contacts" with the Muslim Brotherhood as part of an effort to adjust to Egypt's political upheaval.
(Excerpt) Read more at montrealgazette.com ...
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U.S. hints it would not object to Brotherhood win in Egypt (How Special)
Montreal Gazette ^ | 11-4-11 | Driftwood1
Posted on November 4, 2011 11:39:56 PM EDT by Driftwood1
WASHINGTON - The United States would be "satisfied" if fair parliamentary elections in Egypt produced a Muslim Brotherhood victory, President Barack Obama's pointman for democratic transitions in the Middle East said Friday.
"I think the answer is yes, I think we will be satisfied, if it is a free and fair election," the newly appointed special co-ordinator for Middle East transitions, William Taylor, said when asked about what the U.S. reaction would be if the Islamist party comes out ahead in elections starting this month.
"What we need to do is judge people and parties and movements on what they do, not what they're called," Taylor told a forum at the Atlantic Council, a Washington think-tank.
In June Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said Washington had been in "limited contacts" with the Muslim Brotherhood as part of an effort to adjust to Egypt's political upheaval.
(Excerpt) Read more at montrealgazette.com ...
look..the fact of the matter is that any democracy in the middle east is going to have an Islamic flavor to it whether we like it or not....lets not panic.....lets see what happens....also it doesn';t look like the military wants to relinquish power over there so we'll see if the Islamists take power
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look..the fact of the matter is that any democracy in the middle east is going to have an Islamic flavor to it whether we like it or not....lets not panic.....lets see what happens....also it doesn';t look like the military wants to relinquish power over there so we'll see if the Islamists take power
How can you have a democracy with "an Islamic flavor"? Islam is not compatible with Democracy.
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How can you have a democracy with "an Islamic flavor"? Islam is not compatible with Democracy.
same as we have a democracy with a christian flavor
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same as we have a democracy with a christian flavor
Lmao!!!!!! The kenyan flavor aint working out.
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Lmao!!!!!! The kenyan flavor aint working out.
I guess the Texas flavor was amazing wasn't it?>
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same as we have a democracy with a christian flavor
???
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???
look up the history..I'm not gonna explain it
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It's simple... I'm not a Christian... I think all religion is a farce, but here... TODAY... in 2011.
I'd rather have a democracy based on Judeo-Christian beliefs, than Islamic ones... Not because of the religion, but at this point in time in history, the fact is that Judeo-Christian religions have advanced enough in history and flexibility to be malleable to the will of the people, where Islamic religions do not allow any deviation at all.
That said, Sikhism is probably one of the most flexible and doesn't ask you to try to convert anyone.
Believe or not... it's up to you.
Still, for this discussion, I'll take Judeo-Christian over Islam any day.
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It's simple... I'm not a Christian... I think all religion is a farce, but here... TODAY... in 2011.
I'd rather have a democracy based on Judeo-Christian beliefs, than Islamic ones... Not because of the religion, but at this point in time in history, the fact is that Judeo-Christian religions have advanced enough in history and flexibility to be malleable to the will of the people, where Islamic religions do not allow any deviation at all.
That said, Sikhism is probably one of the most flexible and doesn't ask you to try to convert anyone.
Believe or not... it's up to you.
Still, for this discussion, I'll take Judeo-Christian over Islam any day.
Racist post reported and I am going to forward this post to the powers that be so your membership in the democratic party is revoked.
How dare you think for yourself and make an intelligent decision based on common sense.
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It's simple... I'm not a Christian... I think all religion is a farce, but here... TODAY... in 2011.
I'd rather have a democracy based on Judeo-Christian beliefs, than Islamic ones... Not because of the religion, but at this point in time in history, the fact is that Judeo-Christian religions have advanced enough in history and flexibility to be malleable to the will of the people, where Islamic religions do not allow any deviation at all.
That said, Sikhism is probably one of the most flexible and doesn't ask you to try to convert anyone.
Believe or not... it's up to you.
Still, for this discussion, I'll take Judeo-Christian over Islam any day.
I definitely agree with you....but remember that even in christianity there was lots of blood spilled and many peoples all over the world were converted to christianity by force as well.....
however, you are right that at least we can argue with a christian about the merits of his/her religion without worrying that we will be beheaded.....whereas Islamists demand total obedience
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I definitely agree with you....but remember that even in christianity there was lots of blood spilled and many peoples all over the world were converted to christianity by force as well.....
however, you are right that at least we can argue with a christian about the merits of his/her religion without worrying that we will be beheaded.....whereas Islamists demand total obedience
Many people were converted to Islam through force. The Crusades came about after a few hundred years of imperialist Arab Muslims rampaging around the Middle East converting Christians and killing/raping/destroying those who didn't.
You think the Arabs in Egypt are Egyptian? No, they're imperialists just like mean ol' USA. The Coptic Christians are the true Egyptians. Shame they're being genocided out of existence while people like you cheer it on.
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Andreisatwat would cheer on david duke if it mean propping up obama.
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Lol @ people who allow themselves to get raped in the ass and killed because they don't want to simply "convert" to some religion. lmfao. So convert and do some fake prayers, who gives a shit.
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Email Print 15Comments Share
November 6, 2011
Is Egypt Getting Worse?
By David Ignatius
CAIRO -- How has life changed in Egypt since the revolution, and what's going to happen in the parliamentary elections that begin late this month? I asked those questions in a poor neighborhood of Cairo called Ain el-Sira last week, and the responses amounted to a warning: The new Egypt must give these people a sense of security and progress soon, or it's in trouble.
"It's worse since the revolution -- there is no safety, no security, no police," says Nashwa Mustafa, a simple woman garbed in black who sits with four friends in a job-training center. By learning to use a sewing machine, she hopes to boost her current income of about $70 a month. She is so worried about lawlessness she stays indoors at night; the four other veiled women nod in agreement.
Ask these women who they plan to vote for in the parliamentary elections, and they immediately mention Yousry Bayoumi, a Muslim Brotherhood candidate who lives nearby. "Of course they are respected!" says Mustafa of the Brotherhood. As for the more extreme Salafist Muslim groups that have sprung up, the women are skeptical. "We never heard about them until the revolution," says one dismissively.
Rida Mohammed, an older woman who is teaching the others how to work the sewing machine, says quietly that she misses former president Hosni Mubarak, who was toppled last February. "Now Egypt is not safe," she murmurs. "I wish he would return."
This is a focus group in the raw, in a neighborhood of dirt streets and narrow alleys, where the only color is the laundry hanging from windows. I came here with an anti-poverty group called "For You, My Country!" that provides job training and small loans. Entering through a dusty courtyard, we stumbled over sheep about to be slaughtered for the coming Eid feast.
Why is security so bad? For an answer, we walked to the local police station, about a block away. The police were once an arrogant and pervasive force in Cairo, until they cracked down on the Tahrir Square demonstrations. Now they are hated, and in their shame, they have disappeared. The transitional military government has failed badly in reorganizing them.
The Ain el-Sira station is empty, except for one white-clad policeman named Hani Salama Yousef. Asked why his colleagues have disappeared, he bows his head. "We are depressed. When we go to protect people, they don't respect us." The police, like nearly everyone else in Egypt these days, have been on strike. One of their 15 demands is the right for pioius Muslims to wear beards.
From this dirt-poor neighborhood, let's pull the camera back to the leading political figures who are trying to speak to a nation whose patience with the ruling military council is beginning to wear thin.
I visited Mohammed El-Baradei and Amr Moussa, the two leading political figures. Both agreed that the military rulers must be replaced soon by civilians, but differed sharply about priorities.
"The situation is 100 percent messy, going from bad to worse," says Baradei. "People thought this revolution was about freedom and basic needs, but they haven't seen anything yet of either." The army has the power, but "they have no clue how to run the country."
Baradei volunteers to serve as prime minister for the broad coalition government he hopes will emerge from elections: It could recreate the unity of the Tahrir revolution, he argues. The key is to gain enough time and stability to write a careful constitution that guarantees basic freedoms and keeps Egypt a "civil" state: "Democracy is not instant coffee," says the former Nobel Peace Prize winner.
Moussa wants to move more quickly -- to a presidential election by mid-2012, a few months after the new parliament is seated. He is already the leading presidential candidate, and he's running a populist campaign that tries to offer something for every constituency. He sides with the Muslim Brotherhood -- and against Baradei -- in favoring a quick constitution, without a bill of rights, that retains the ambiguous Article 2 endorsing Islamic Shariah law as the main source of legislation, but also affirming minority rights.
"This is an uphill drive, but it should start right away," says the former foreign minister.
"Make haste slowly," advises the old Latin proverb, and that seems a good recipe for Egypt. A strong prime minister can pull the country together and get it moving again, while the country writes a good constitution. A quickie constitution that permanently enfranchises the political powers of the moment could be a potentially disastrous mistake.
davidignatius@washpost.com
Copyright 2011, Washington Post Writers Group
ANDRE = FAIL
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I definitely agree with you....but remember that even in christianity there was lots of blood spilled and many peoples all over the world were converted to christianity by force as well.....
however, you are right that at least we can argue with a christian about the merits of his/her religion without worrying that we will be beheaded.....whereas Islamists demand total obedience
Then how can you have democracy with an "Islamic flavor"?
look..the fact of the matter is that any democracy in the middle east is going to have an Islamic flavor to it whether we like it or not....lets not panic.....lets see what happens....also it doesn';t look like the military wants to relinquish power over there so we'll see if the Islamists take power
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Racist post reported and I am going to forward this post to the powers that be so your membership in the democratic party is revoked.
How dare you think for yourself and make an intelligent decision based on common sense.
I'm not a democrat at all (Nor am I a republican). I think people like to pigeon hole people into things that make them feel more comfortable.
I'm certainly as critical of the Dems as the Repubs.
I get that people see me say a couple of things and think they know me, but that's their inadequacy, not mine.
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I definitely agree with you....but remember that even in christianity there was lots of blood spilled and many peoples all over the world were converted to christianity by force as well.....
however, you are right that at least we can argue with a christian about the merits of his/her religion without worrying that we will be beheaded.....whereas Islamists demand total obedience
There was a lot of blood, but again, that was 1/2 a millennium ago... Judeo-Christian religions have moved forward a lot in the past 500 years, where most Islamic faiths have not.
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There was a lot of blood, but again, that was 1/2 a millennium ago... Judeo-Christian religions have moved forward a lot in the past 500 years, where most Islamic faiths have not.
I hear Kenya is making great strides. fuck, a Kenyan just won the NYC marathon.
Maybe he is related to our resident Kenyan?
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I hear Kenya is making great strides. fuck, a Kenyan just won the NYC marathon.
Maybe he is related to our resident Kenyan?
Maybe, but most Kenyans are Protestant, then Catholic, then tribal, and Muslim is at the end.
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Many people were converted to Islam through force. The Crusades came about after a few hundred years of imperialist Arab Muslims rampaging around the Middle East converting Christians and killing/raping/destroying those who didn't.
You think the Arabs in Egypt are Egyptian? No, they're imperialists just like mean ol' USA. The Coptic Christians are the true Egyptians. Shame they're being genocided out of existence while people like you cheer it on.
Don't be a bigger fool than usual....no one in their right mind would cheer on something like that....try being a little less partisan and see the merits in someone else's argument for a change
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Don't be a bigger fool than usual....no one in their right mind would cheer on something like that....try being a little less partisan and see the merits in someone else's argument for a change
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Islamists Take Over Egypt
Right Side News ^ | 11/11/2011 | Khaled Abu Toameh
Posted on November 13, 2011 8:52:12 AM EST by IbJensen
Library of Alexandria to Be Burned Again; Food for Half-Price
The Royal Library of Alexandria in Egypt, the largest and most significant library of the ancient world, is now being targeted by radical Muslims who seek to replace it with a mosque.
Radical Islamic groups claim that the library's art programs, which include music and ballet dancing, spread "depravity" in Egyptian society. » If you like this article, please subscribe to our daily newsletter
Library_of_Alexandria_gr eat_hallThe Islamist campaign against the library is taking place under the looking eyes of Egypt's military dictators, who are burying their heads in the sand and refusing to see the danger, noted columnist Mohammed al-Hamamsi.
"Is the Supreme Military Council waiting until the Islamists come to power and demand, through their parliament, that the library be demolished and that a mosque be built on its site?" al-Hamamsi asked rhetorically.
The destruction of the library will mark the beginning of Egypt's fall into the hands of the Islamists, who seek to take the Arabs and Muslims back to dark ages.
Fears over the fate of the legendary library surfaced following a dispute between the director and the majority of his workers.
Director Ismail Serageldin has been under fire for his alleged affiliation with the former regime of President Hosni Mubarak and crackdown on freedom of speech in the library.
But he and many Egyptians are convinced that the campaign is part of a scheme by Muslim extremists to take control over one of the world's most important cultural and scientific institutions.
The campaign against the library is taking place on the eve of the first parliamentary election in the post-Mubarak era.
For the first time, the Muslim Brotherhood and other fundamentalist groups are contesting the elections, scheduled for November 28.
Arab journalists report that Alexandria, the second-largest city of Egypt with a population of more than four million, now appears to be under the full control of Muslim extremists.
Khaled al-Shami, a correspondent for the London-based Al-Quds Al-Arabi newspaper, said that visitors to the city could no longer ignore the "social, political and physical changes" that have taken place, first and foremost the large number of women covering their faces with the niqab [full head covering, not just the headscarf, hijab] and men wearing beards.
According to the Egyptian newspaper Al-Ahram, "The Brotherhood have spent the last few months mobilizing their half-million plus members for intense electoral campaigns up and down the Nile river, which the group hopes will deliver it 40% of the seats in Parliament."
The paper pointed out that the Islamists have been "wooing voters not only with their trademark slogan of "Islam is the solution," but also with the tangibles of meat and vegetables that they sell to poor Egyptians at half the market prices."
The paper also found that in the months since the fall of Mubarak, "Brotherhood-friendly preachers have made their way back into some strategic mosques, using the podiums to recruit new converts and give confidence to hard-core supporters."
Needless to say, the majority of the mosque sermons focus on the need to "defend Islam against Jews, Christian crusaders and Western colonialism."
In simple words, the message coming out of Egypt's Islamists is that Israel, the US and the entire West remain the number one enemy of Muslims.
TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Click to Add Topic
ANDRE OBAMA 240 BLACKASS F A I L
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Egyptians back in Tahrir for anti-military protests, 10 months after Mubarak’s ouster
Friday, 18 November 2011
Hundreds of thousands of Egyptians gather during a demonstration at Tahrir Square in Cairo. (Reuters)
By AL ARABIYA WITH AGENCIES
CAIRO
Hundreds of thousands of Egyptians rallied Friday in Cairo’s Tahrir square with Islamists in the forefront to protest against what they say are attempts by the country’s military rulers to designate themselves as the guardians of a new Egypt. It was one of the largest rallied in Egypt in recent months.
Most rallies in Tahrir have been led by liberal- or left-leaning groups. But Friday’s rally was dominated by the country’s most organized political group, the Muslim Brotherhood, which has rarely come out in full force since the protests that forced President Hosni Mubarak to step down in February.
The Brotherhood had until recently avoided confrontation with the ruling Supreme Council of the Armed Forces, but now warns of escalating its protest campaign if plans to give permanent political powers to the military are not scrapped.
“The army has no role in ruling people. Its only job is to protect the country. We want civilian rule chosen through democracy,” said Hani Hegazi, a 28-year old Brotherhood member who traveled by bus to Tahrir from the Delta province of el-Beheira, according to The Associated Press.
Banners read: “Down with military rule. Egypt our country is not a military camp.” Some demonstrators flew the Egyptian flag, while others including ultraconservative Salafis waved a banner declaring Islam's holy book, the Quran, to be “our constitution.”
Defending the goals of the revolution
The rally was called to protest a document floated by the government which declares the military the guardian of “constitutional legitimacy,” suggesting the armed forces could have the final word on major policies even after a new president is elected. The document, which includes guiding principles for Egypt's new constitution, also introduces clauses that would shield it from civilian oversight.
Most of Egypt’s pro-democracy groups object to the document, calling it an attempt to perpetuate military rule past the post-Mubarak transitional period which is supposed to end with the election of a new parliament and a new president.
Delivering the Muslim prayer sermon, imam Mazhar Shahin urged protesters to keep defending the goals of the revolution.
“Perhaps those who rule us think we will forget our cause with the passage of time. They are deluded and mistaken,” he warned the ruling Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (SCAF), which took power when Mubarak was ousted.
“We reject the imposition of dictates on the people, we reject Silmi’s document. No voice can drown out the voice of the people,” Shahin told the crowd.
“Those who fear Islamist movements in Egypt, I tell them don’t be scared of Islam in Egypt,” Shahin said, AFP reported.
“Egypt is Islamic, like it or not... We want a civic democratic state with an Islamic vision that allows people to practice their rights and democracy,” he said.
All groups join new protests
In addition to the Brotherhood, Salafis, left- and liberal-leaning groups such as the April 6 movement and other youth revolutionary alliances have joined the rally, demanding a timetable for the end of military rule which began in February.
They have called for marches from mosques around Egypt to major squares, dubbing it the “Friday of the Single Demand” - that demand being a clear date for the transfer of power to civilian rule. Many groups have planned to hold an open ended sit-in until a date has been set.
The Brotherhood says the document reinforces “dictatorship.”
“It contains articles that rob the people of their sovereignty and reinforces dictatorship. It constitutes a coup against the principles and goals of the January 25 revolution,” the group said in a statement issued Wednesday. Last minute negotiations between the government and the Brotherhood failed to stave off their participation in the rally, or scrap the document.
Close by, the head of the fundamentalist Gamaa Islamiya, Tarek al-Zomor, told AFP that the constitutional principles were a "circumvention of the people’s will.”
“We are here to stress the necessity of a timetable to civilian rule. If that doesn’t happen, then it confirms the conspiracy to rob the revolution,” Zomor added.
The show of force comes 10 days before the country’s first parliamentary elections since Mubarak stepped down, when a Brotherhood-affiliated political party is expected to fare well.
Anger against the Supreme Council has been building up over their management of the transition period. Many complain that the generals are recreating the Mubarak regime by cracking down on opponents, by refusing to order a thorough reform of the security services, and by monopolizing decision making. Islamists and liberals alike now express fear that the military council wants to hold on to power, a claim denied by the generals.
Power transfer
The military council had promised to transfer power to an elected civilian government within six months of Mubarak's ouster. But according to a vague timetable in place, it may not be until early 2013 that a president is elected. Only the dates for the parliamentary elections, which are due to begin in ten days and which will drag into March, are yet known.
Walid Farouk, 32, who wore the heavy beard and traditional robe of the ultraconservative Salafi trend, said that Egypt had seen nothing good from military rule since the army took power in 1952.
“All of us are scared that the army could try to hold on to power,” he told AP. “It is time for a civilian government.”
The writing of Egypt’s constitution has been a divisive issue, and details of who will write it and what it contains are at the heart of the recent rally.
Some liberals have supported the idea of writing guiding principles for the constitution, fearing that a parliament controlled by Islamists would insert religious principles into the document.
Even now, some liberals remain opposed to the Friday rally, saying a document is necessary to detail how members of the assembly are to be chosen, and controversial clauses can be negotiated.
But many others have come to distrust the military’s Supreme Council at least as much they distrust the Islamists.
At the rally, protesters are expected to celebrate the birthday of one of the most prominent revolutionary to be jailed by the military prosecutor. Alaa Abdel Fattah, a famous blogger and activist, was detained late last months for refusing to answer to the military prosecution on his alleged role in sectarian violence that left 27, mostly Christians, dead. He turns 30 Friday.
Many hold the military responsible for the violence, and see Abdel-Fattah's detention as an attempt to find a scapegoat and discredit activists.
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Police burn protest tents to clear (Occupy) Cairo's Tahrir (only 11 killed)
KMPH ^ | 11/20/11 | MAGGIE MICHAEL and SARAH EL DEEB
Posted on November 20, 2011 6:42:24 PM EST by Libloather
Police burn protest tents to clear Cairo's Tahrir
By MAGGIE MICHAEL and SARAH EL DEEB
Associated Press
Updated: Nov 20, 2011 4:19 PM EST
CAIRO (AP) - Egyptian soldiers and police set fire to protest tents in Cairo's Tahrir Square and fired tear gas and rubber bullets in a major assault Sunday to drive out thousands demanding that the military rulers quickly transfer power to a civilian government. At least 11 protesters were killed and hundreds were injured.
It was the second day of clashes marking a sharp escalation of tensions on Egypt's streets a week before the first elections since the ouster of longtime authoritarian leader Hosni Mubarak in February. The military took over the country, promising a swift transition to civilian rule. But the pro-democracy protesters who led the uprising have grown increasingly angry with the ruling generals, and suspect they are trying to cling to power even after an elected parliament is seated and a new president is voted in.
Street battles continued throughout the day and long into the night, spreading to side streets and sending a wave of injuries to makeshift clinics on the streets.
(Excerpt) Read more at kmph-kfre.com ...
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Growing Protest Pushes Back Troops in Tahrir Square
New York Times ^ | November 20, 2011 | DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK
Posted on November 20, 2011 9:22:33 PM EST by Pan_Yan
CAIRO — Egypt’s military rulers struggled Sunday to contain an explosion of protests demanding their ouster, as a growing crowd of demonstrators pushed security forces out of Tahrir Square for a second night in a row and new clashes broke out across the country.
Egyptian troops, heralded as saviors when their generals ushered out President Hosni Mubarak on Feb. 11, led a new push to clear the square. And the battles took a more lethal toll: the Health Ministry said that at least six were killed, and doctors set up in the square said that the number could be twice that.
But the violence only seemed to reinforce the revolutionary urgency that had returned to the square, and when the army moved to push out the thousands of protesters, more than twice as many quickly flooded back.
“This is February 12!” said Abeer Mustafa, a 42-year-old wedding planner. “We have finally succeeded in reclaiming our revolution.”
The crackdown, including the reported use of live ammunition by troops, elicited condemnation across the political spectrum, joined by voices who had previously taken a more restrained tone toward the military council, from the liberal former diplomat Mohamed ElBaradei to the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood.
Almost all the civilian parties called for an accelerated end to military rule before the drafting of a constitution — either an immediate handover to some civilian unity government, a turnover to the lower house of Parliament when it is seated in April, or after a presidential election, to be scheduled as soon as possible.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
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Oh my....
Those wedding planners are clearly radical elements influencing the Muslim Brotherhood.
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Fears Egypt is on the brink of second revolution
The Telegraph ^ | 11/21/2011 | Adrian Blomfield and Samer al-Atrush
Posted on November 21, 2011 3:27:49 AM EST by bruinbirdman
Police and army units appeared to have recaptured Cairo's Tahrir Square on Sunday night after a weekend of deadly violence raised fears that Egypt was on the brink of a second revolution – this time against the country's military leadership.
At least six protesters were reportedly killed and nearly a thousand more wounded as clashes in scenes redolent of the uprising that overthrew Hosni Mubarak, the former president, nine months ago.
The unrest, which spread to other major cities, was among the most serious – and the most threatening – since Mr Mubarak's downfall.
For the first time since the revolt, Egypt's black-uniformed police force, one of Mr Mubarak's most hated instruments of repression, was deployed in force, a fact that served to exacerbate rather than alleviate tensions.
Protesters in Tahrir Square said they now saw no difference between the generals and the president they succeeded.
"The violence is the same as the old regime," one said.
With the mood hardening, many called for the military to step aside immediately.
"We have a single demand: The marshal must step down and be replaced by a civilian council," Ahmed Hani, one protester, was quoted as saying. "The violence yesterday showed us that Mubarak is still in power."
Freshly scrawled graffiti near the square put it more succinctly: "The marshal is Mubarak's dog."
For two days, the police battled an ever swelling number of protesters in central Cairo, opening fire with tear gas, rubber bullets and bird shot in the city's Tahrir Square – the epicentre of the revolution that toppled Mr Mubarak – and the streets and alleyways off it.
The demonstrators retaliated with an endless volley of stones and the occasional Molotov cocktail and by yesterday afternoon the storied square appeared once again to be in the hands of the
(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...
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Associated Press= CAIRO (AP) — An Egyptian morgue official says the death toll has climbed to 35 during the third straight day of violence that has turned into the most sustained challenge yet to the rule of Egypt's military.
Most of the deaths were in the area around Cairo's central Tahrir Square, the epicenter of the uprising that ousted former President Hosni Mubarak in February.
On Monday, young activists demanding the military hand over power to a civilian government skirmished with black-clad police, hurling stones and firebombs and throwing back the tear gas canisters being fired by police into the square.
The official said 20 people had been killed Monday. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to brief the media. ..............(more)
The complete piece is at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/9958237
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Things have gone from perfect to better. Egypt has been a huge foreign policy success for Barak Obama. Libya will also follow suit. How can this man not be re-elected!?
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Things have gone from perfect to better. Egypt has been a huge foreign policy success for Barak Obama. Libya will also follow suit. How can this man not be re-elected!?
Voters like Andre, Blackass, Straw, etc dont give a damn.
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Voters like Andre, Blackass, Straw, etc dont give a damn.
unlike you...we actually THINK
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unlike you...we actually THINK
LMFAO - yeah you are thinking about giving bj's to obama in the oval office, that is why you keep being proven wrong on his disaster and kamikaze policies.
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US to Egypt: Stick to election plan, even if it favors Islamist parties
CSM ^ | 11/23/2011 | Howard LaFranchi
Posted on Wednesday, November 23, 2011 4:13:50 PM by mojito
The United States is encouraging Egypt’s military rulers to stick to a schedule of elections set to kick off next week, despite continuing violence – and despite the likelihood that the electoral timetable favors the Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamist movements.
The Obama administration is in essence caught between two unpalatable options: pressing ahead for elections that the Islamists are likely to win, and thereby sounding like a force for Egypt’s democratic transition; or recommending a postponement that a growing number of liberal Egyptians prefer, but which risks coming across as anti-democratic.
Egypt’s transitional military rulers announced Wednesday that parliamentary elections set to begin Monday will go ahead, despite five days of violence that has left more than 35 Egyptians dead and scores wounded.
The plan to proceed with voting was worked out at a meeting Tuesday between the military and the Muslim Brotherhood, the two most powerful institutions in post-Hosni-Mubarak Egypt. The new plan also calls for presidential elections to be held before July, an apparent acceleration of a previously announced transition plan.
Other political parties were invited to Tuesday’s meeting, but most liberal secular movements boycotted it.
Still, many Egyptians – in particular those who spearheaded the February movement that toppled a regime – fear that the military, composed in large part of recruits from the country’s more conservative rural areas, favors a Brotherhood electoral triumph. They worry that a parliamentary triumph for the Brotherhood, combined with the military staying in power at least until mid-summer, would allow the two to write a constitution – and to delineate civil and political rights to their liking.
Despite those concerns, the US is sticking to its support for the established electoral calendar.
(Excerpt) Read more at csmonitor.com ...
AWESOME JOB BARRY!!!!!
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LMFAO - yeah you are thinking about giving bj's to obama in the oval office, that is why you keep being proven wrong on his disaster and kamikaze policies.
I haven't been proven wrong about much.....but I've destroyed you every time and made you run from more threads than I can remember...every time I annihilate you, you hijack the thread by posting silly pics or start talking about Michelle Obama
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/25/egypt-elections-tahrir-square-military_n_1112851.html
LMFAO @ Andre trying to give credit to the Obamunist as if this is a good thing.
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We know who lost Egypt
Posted by William A. Jacobson Wednesday, November 30, 2011 at 10:57pm
http://legalinsurrection.com/2011/11/we-know-who-lost-egypt
Obama’s foolish policy of forcing Mubarak out of office precipitously without giving non-Islamist parties time to organize has resulted in Islamists achieving a sweeping victory in the first round of parliamentary elections. Strength by the Muslim Brotherhood was expected, but the extremely hard line Salafists had a very strong showing.
As reported by The NY Times:
Islamists claimed a decisive victory on Wednesday as early election results put them on track to win a dominant majority in Egypt’s first Parliament since the ouster of Hosni Mubarak, the most significant step yet in the religious movement’s rise since the start of the Arab Spring.
The party formed by the Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt’s mainstream Islamist group, appeared to have taken about 40 percent of the vote, as expected. But a big surprise was the strong showing of ultraconservative Islamists, called Salafis, many of whom see most popular entertainment as sinful and reject women’s participation in voting or public life.
Analysts in the state-run news media said early returns indicated that Salafi groups could take as much as a quarter of the vote, giving the two groups of Islamists combined control of nearly 65 percent of the parliamentary seats.
That victory came at the expense of the liberal parties and youth activists who set off the revolution, affirming their fears that they would be unable to compete with Islamists who emerged from the Mubarak years organized and with an established following. Poorly organized and internally divided, the liberal parties could not compete with Islamists disciplined by decades as the sole opposition to Mr. Mubarak. “We were washed out,” said Shady el-Ghazaly Harb, one of the most politically active of the group.
The Times article points out that this first round of elections was in the most liberal areas of Egypt. As voting moves to more conservative rural areas, the Islamists likely will gain an even more overwhelming majority.
This all was very predictable. In fact, I predicted it while Obama was insisting that Mubarak leave ”yesterday,” NY Times columnists were writing delusional columns about the Arab Street and the Arab Spring, and venomous anti-Israeli pundits at Media Matters and elsewhere complained that the “Israel Lobby” was trying to stifle freedom.
On Feburary 20 I wrote The Yuppie Revolution In Egypt Is Over, The Islamist Revolution Has Begun. I wish I had been wrong.
The liberated women of Egypt will be the first to suffer. The Times notes:
The Brotherhood has pledged to respect basic individual freedoms while using the influence of the state to nudge the culture in a more traditional direction. But the Salafis often talk openly of laws mandating a shift to Islamic banking, restricting the sale of alcohol, providing special curriculums for boys and girls in public schools, and censoring the content of the arts and entertainment.
Obama lost Egypt, and he had plenty of help.
Update 12-1-2011: Barack Obama to Jewish Donors: “I Try Not to Pat Myself on the Back” But I’ve Done More For Israel Security Than Any Other President
And my updated post, “The idea that we could have controlled that process is absurd”
ANDREISATWAT / OBAMA = MORONS
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If they want to vote in Islamists its their loss.....they have that right..we gave them the freedom to choose..we have to live with the results...you can blame Obama all you want but he screwed up by not reforming for 30 yeas...same as Ghadafi
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If they want to vote in Islamists its their loss.....they have that right..we gave them the freedom to choose..we have to live with the results...you can blame Obama all you want but he screwed up by not reforming for 30 yeas...same as Ghadafi
LOL. so thats it? Thats the best you can muster up in your defense of this failure of maobama setting up a ME Pan Islamic Caliphate?
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LOL. so thats it? Thats the best you can muster up in your defense of this failure of maobama setting up a ME Pan Islamic Caliphate?
It's cool, Obama has it under control. When their economy further collapses and they solidify it by further Islamizing and doing things like stoning women to death and attacking Israel, he'll do what he does best and lead from behind.
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LOL. so thats it? Thats the best you can muster up in your defense of this failure of maobama setting up a ME Pan Islamic Caliphate?
there is nothing to defend....Obama did the right thing.....if the Egyptians choose to fuck it up then its on them and will set back Arab civilization....Again blame Mubarak..not Obama
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It's cool when Obama meddles but bad when Bush does.
Andreisadouche is arguably the biggest hypocrite on this board. Well, after 240, that is.
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It's cool when Obama meddles but bad when Bush does.
Andreisadouche is arguably the biggest hypocrite on this board. Well, after 240, that is.
Never said it was bad when Bush meddled.....I supported the Iraq war..but if calling me names makes you feel better then so be it
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http://www.whitehousedossier.com/2011/12/01/obama-loses-egypt
.Obama Loses Egypt
by Keith Koffler on December 1, 2011, 10:19 am
Obama’s Egypt failure is becoming all the more plain, and the cultural and political Islamization of our most important Arab ally may well become a campaign issue before long
The New York Times today reports that not only are Islamists ascendant in Egypt, but their most radical fringe is faring much better in the ongoing elections than expected.
The party formed by the Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt’s mainstream Islamist group, appeared to have taken about 40 percent of the vote, as expected. But a big surprise was the strong showing of ultraconservative Islamists, called Salafis, many of whom see most popular entertainment as sinful and reject women’s participation in voting or public life.
Analysts in the state-run news media said early returns indicated that Salafi groups could take as much as a quarter of the vote, giving the two groups of Islamists combined control of nearly 65 percent of the parliamentary seats.
Below is what I wrote back in February as Obama’s meandering and capricious Egypt policy eventually wound its way toward abandoning Hosni Mubarak, the faithful U.S. ally who had kept the peace with Israel and been a source for stability amid the political ululating that passes for leadership in the rest of the Middle East.
Once Mubarak gets on a plane and heads for the Ritz Carlton Doha, an immense power vacuum is created, the giant sucking sound of which will be animated by every fundamentalist America-hater who can be found in Egypt.
The people of Egypt will never love America. They won’t – it’s shocking for the White House – even love Obama. And once the Muslim Brotherhood is running Egypt, they will suffer, and so will we. And Egyptians will get plenty of violence.
And so it is coming to pass. The Islamists profess faith in democracy, and they will continue to do so as long as democracy shows its faithfulness toward them. Then, once they’ve consolidated their rule and gotten a rein on the military, they will thunder from the minarets about threats to Islam and round up the usual suspects.
Obama, and George W. Bush before him, did little to force the kind of reforms that were needed to slowly unscrew the pressure valve in Egypt and give democratic forces the opportunity to organize. This would have at least provided Egypt a chance to develop its democracy and avoid a sudden Islamist takeover.
Instead, Obama went to Egypt in 2009 and preached revolution:
I do have an unyielding belief that all people yearn for certain things: the ability to speak your mind and have a say in how you are governed; confidence in the rule of law and the equal administration of justice; government that is transparent and doesn’t steal from the people; the freedom to live as you choose. These are not just American ideas; they are human rights. And that is why we will support them everywhere.
Sure, these are wonderful ideas. But when you go to Egypt and say to the people that their leader’s government is illegitimate, it sends them a signal about hat you will do – or won’t do – if they rise up.
What was needed over the past several years was steadfastness in support of Mubarak along with quiet, sustained and severe pressure – using the billions we send to Egypt as leverage – to force reform. Neither Bush nor Obama did this successfully.
And so now there’s a new Pharaoh in town. And he doesn’t like America, or Israel.
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I'm still confused... Can someone please educate me on what Obama did in Egypt?
I thought we stayed out of there ???
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I'm still confused... Can someone please educate me on what Obama did in Egypt?
I thought we stayed out of there ???
Obama moved Egypt toward Democracy by helping to rid the country of Hosni Mubarak who was losing control of the country which in effect would have plunged Egypt into a bloody civil war..Obama averted this from happening by nudging Mubarak out...
Obama also through his speech two years ago to the middle east, pushed the region to democratize and ever since then, the Arab spring started which has seen democratization in four Arab countries so far and led to the resignation of Yemen's dictator as well.....
Some idiots on here feel that we should have supported Mubarak no matter what which would have shown that our words about democratization were hollow and would have destroyed Egypt due to civil unrest and eventually civil war.....thats basically the gist of it
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Obama moved Egypt toward Democracy by helping to rid the country of Hosni Mubarak who was losing control of the country which in effect would have plunged Egypt into a bloody civil war..Obama averted this from happening by nudging Mubarak out...
Obama also through his speech two years ago to the middle east, pushed the region to democratize and ever since then, the Arab spring started which has seen democratization in four Arab countries so far and led to the resignation of Yemen's dictator as well.....
Some idiots on here feel that we should have supported Mubarak no matter what which would have shown that our words about democratization were hollow and would have destroyed Egypt due to civil unrest and eventually civil war.....thats basically the gist of it
How did Obama do this?
I seriously don't understand what a speech has to do with anything.
I don't even get how Egypt has anything to do with ANYTHING related to Obama... good or bad.
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How did Obama do this?
I seriously don't understand what a speech has to do with anything.
I don't even get how Egypt has anything to do with ANYTHING related to Obama... good or bad.
Because basically, the POTUS is like the king of the world...when he talks, people listen......the masses felt Obama was giving them permission to overthrow their leaders....no american president has ever said to the region in public that they must democratize..it caused a stir
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Because basically, the POTUS is like the king of the world...when he talks, people listen......the masses felt Obama was giving them permission to overthrow their leaders....no american president has ever said to the region in public that they must democratize..it caused a stir
We will have to disagree on this... The President isn't the King of anything... Those people did what they wanted to do... They didn't need Obama to say it was "ok".
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We will have to disagree on this... The President isn't the King of anything... Those people did what they wanted to do... They didn't need Obama to say it was "ok".
fair enough...but notice that everything was basically static for a few hundred years with the exception of dictators overthrowing dictators but as soon as Obama made that speech, all of sudden we have four rulers being overthrown and thrown out by their masses.....can't be a just coincidence..Obama made that happen..along with Hillary ..both believe in doing this
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Lol. Andre why hasn't Obamas speeches transformed this country positively yet though?
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Lol. Andre why hasn't Obamas speeches transformed this country positively yet though?
because we have guys like you who are working against him
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because we have guys like you who are working against him
So only if I give in to his socialism and thugocracy things would then get better?
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So only if I give in to his socialism and thugocracy things would then get better?
at least things will get done
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at least things will get done
Like what? More fast n furious and solyndras?
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Jihad Unleashed: Aboud al-Zumour, Islamic Jihad mastermind of Sadat's murder, Once Jailed,
Atlas Shrugs ^ | 12/4/11 | Pamela Geller
Posted on December 4, 2011 3:48:55 PM EST by Nachum
Thank you, President Obama. We have come full circle. The assassin of a pioneer for peace, Anwar Sadat, is now part of the election process. Instead of being executed for the assassination of Anwar Sadat, Aboud al-Zumour was released after the overthrow of Mubarak, and now insists that he is ready to share power in the wake of the overwhelming Islamic win in the Egyptian elections.
Notice when the West has to acknowledge Islamic political parties and influences, it's "islamist." That is nonsense, a western construct for fantasists. The language of the delusional and the absurd. It's an artificial distinction and an intellecutal waste of time.
Aboud al-Zumour, Islamic Jihad mastermind of Sadat's murder, comes in from the cold after Egypt election The Telegraph (hat tip Daryl)
The young protesters who toppled President Mubarak wanted freedom, but instead they are getting Islamic radicals who want to introduce a strict new moral regime.
(Excerpt) Read more at atlasshrugs2000.typepad. com ...
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U.S. Spent $200M on Egypt Election
Friday, 02 Dec 2011 03:09 PM
By Margaret Menge
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/us-money-egypt-elections/2011/12/02/id/419829
The Obama administration spent some $200 million on democracy building in the lead-up to the elections this week in Egypt.
But with 65 percent of the vote going to Islamist candidates, it doesn’t appear the money was well spent.
Stephen McInerney, executive director of the Project on Middle East Democracy, told Campaigns & Elections magazine that $65 million went to Egypt after the uprising that toppled President Hosni Mubarak and an additional $100 million was earmarked for economic development but also to train Egypt’s nascent political parties.
The money is going through the State Department, the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), the International Republican Institute and the National Democratic Institute.
A Washington-based consultant who works with USAID and the State Department says the focus of the aid to Egypt has been on helping the smaller political parties that are competing against the better organized Freedom and Justice Party, the Muslim Brotherhood’s party.
This week saw the first round of Parliamentary elections, with voting in nine of the country’s 27 provinces. The staggered elections will continue over the coming months. The Freedom and Justice Party won 40 percent of the vote on Wednesday, with an additional 15 percent going to the Salafis, a group of hard-line Islamists who reject the right of women to vote.
“Poorly organized and internally divided, the liberal parties could not compete with Islamists disciplined by decades as the sole opposition to Mr. Mubarak,” the New York Times reported.
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'Israel biggest loser from Muslim Brotherhood win in Egypt'
Jerusalem Post ^ | 12/3/11 | KHALED ABU TOAMEH
Israel is the biggest loser from the strong showing of the Muslim Brotherhood in the Egyptian parliamentary election, Hamed Bitawi, a top Hamas representative in the West Bank, said Saturday.
Bitwai's comment came as Hamas expressed relief over the Muslim Brotherhood victory.
The Muslim Brotherhood triumph in Egypt, Tunisia and Morocco elections comes on the eve of preparations for celebrations marking the 24th anniversary of Hamas's founding in the Gaza Strip.
Hamas supporters said that the rise of their political allies to power in the Arab world was "the biggest birthday gift for Hamas" on the anniversary of its establishment.
They said that in addition to Israel, the Palestinian Authority leadership also stands to lose from the results of the elections in the Arab world.
Hamas leaders expressed hope that Egypt's policy toward their movement in particular and the Israeli-Arab conflict in general would change to the better in wake of the Muslim Brotherhood's success.
Bitwai said that Hamas was not surprised by the Muslim Brotherhood gains in the election "especially in light of the suffering of the Muslims over the past decades at the hands of the dictatorial regimes."
Bitwai praised the leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood for stating that they were in favor of reconsidering the peace trey between Egypt and Israel.
The Quds Press news agency quoted Bitawi as also hailing the Muslim Brotherhood's stance against the blockade on the Gaza Strip.
"Israel is the biggest loser in these elections," he added.
Earlier this year, Hamas welcomed the downfall of Hosni Mubarak's regime, which it had considered hostile toward the movement.
Hamas leaders had accused Mubarak's regime of participating in the blockade on the Gaza Strip by refusing to reopen the Rafah border crossing.
The new military regime in Cairo has been more friendly toward Hamas. The Rafah terminal has been reopened and Hamas prisoners have been released from Egyptian prisons.
Moreover, Hamas leaders have since been welcome in Egypt as VIP guests - much to the dismay of the PA leadership.
Hamas is hoping that a strong presence of the Muslim Brotherhood in parliament and perhaps in government would bring about a complete change in Egypt's policy toward the Palestinians, said a Gaza-based academic.
"Hamas is a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood and any victory for the Muslim Brotherhood is a victory for Hamas and the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip," he told The Jerusalem Post.
Musa Abu Marzouk, deputy chairman of the Hamas "political bureau," was quoted over the weekend as saying that the victory of Islamic groups in the Egyptian parliamentary election would reflect positively on the Palestinians.
"With the victory of the Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt will return to its original role of fully supporting the Palestinian cause," Abu Marzouk said. "This serves the interests of Hamas and the Palestinians."
Fawzi Barhoum, a Hamas spokesman in the Gaza Strip, said that his movement was encouraged by the rise of Muslim Brotherhood supporters to power not only in Egypt, but also in Tunisia and Morocco.
Barhoum said that the results of the elections in these countries would strengthen Hamas in the face of Israeli, American and European efforts to isolate the movement.
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How Obama Is Mishandling the Violence Wracking the Muslim World
Martin Peretz
December 12, 2011 | 12:00 am
.This is a subject about which we’re not supposed to speak. Or write. Well, I suppose we can allude. But not in detail. So, even though bloodletting is a daily occurrence in the orbit of Islam, discussing it is forbidden. At least among the sensitive, the sensitive left most notably. By which I mean, firstly, folk who think of themselves as universal souls but see others, Americans and Brits, French and Germans, Italians and Dutch, also the bulk of English speakers wherever they are, as retrograde. Patriots, for God’s sake, patriotism being not only a dirty concept but a dirty word. And the house of Israel, of course, which first gave content to the notion of nation, the most reactionary of groups to which men and women relate if they are not blessed to see history as the light of progress for all people. The irony of all this is that the beneficiaries of this earthly and unearthly idealism are the most tribal of humankind, the most contemptuous of the “other,” the most dug-in on their patent of what is true and what is false.
Tim Noah argued here last week that Rick Perry does not really love either the Jews or gays. And maybe he is right, although Perry’s bible, which is the Hebrew Bible, is certainly the source of his affectionate respect for Zion. His phobias toward homosexuals are, well, homophobic, and they are ugly. But nobody has ever been able to dismiss the assertion, as the New Republic editorial of December 8 points out, that Barack Obama is not especially friendly to gays (or to Israel). Nor, for that matter, can it be said that Hillary, for all her human rights passions and how “hip” she pretends to be, is especially stirred by the struggle for equality of homosexuals or realistically moved by the striving of the Jewish state for true safety and peace.
The grim fact is that President Obama is neither a strategist—just forget about him ever being a “seasoned strategist,” he won’t be—nor someone at home in the lessons of history, of which there are many that are germane, at least germane to the despondency of the population that is neither rich nor in power. The powerlessness of the ordinary man and woman may once have stirred him to become a “community organizer” but no one has ever shown that his Chicago community organizing ever achieved much or, for that matter, anything. The Obama in his first autobiography, Dreams from My Father, is a Third Worlder. And why not? But the African third world now gives no one especial pride, not even South Africa with its struggle behind it and its present politics cynical and cruel, its history falsified. Even Mandela is tainted, a very hard man to taint, by his lasting comradeship with Colonel Qaddafi among many other foul comrades.
Obama was dragged into the Libyan people’s struggle against their master by France and Great Britain. But he (and we) have basically absented ourselves, except for lame rhetoric and not always even that, from the broader Arab defiance of the tyrants who rule them. Now, I certainly understand that the world of the Arabs is a difficult one for us to navigate. Moreover, no one can predict what would follow in the wake of an overthrow. Viz: Egypt. Viz: Yemen. Still, there is no excuse for the long enchantment of the Obama administration with Bashar Assad’s rule over Syria, which is most accurately defined as a long reign of terror over its people. There was something actually cold-blooded in Obama’s courtship of Dr. Assad (whom you may have seen recently displaying a sick grin during a complicitous interview with Barbara Walters; why didn’t Walters ask him why he was grinning?).
We have not been especially lucky with the personal traits of some our recent presidents: the psychotic Richard Nixon, his confused successor Gerald Ford, the dark but always smiling Jimmy Carter, the solipsistic Bill Clinton. And now we have the narcissistic and self-loving Barack Obama. This president is touched by nothing. He surely wasn’t stirred by the blood of Syrians that flowed during four decades of Assadian rule, that flowed today and will, alas, flow tomorrow.
Thinking of that cold bloodedness and narcissism, there is a particular memory of nine-year old Barry in Barack’s Dreams. I will never forget it, although some friends, when I point it out to them, shrug it off. So let me try with you:
“Don’t you think he’s a little young?”
Lolo shrugged and looked down at me. “The boy should know where his dinner is coming from. What do you think, Barry?” I looked at my mother, then turned back to face the man holding the chicken. Lolo nodded again, and I watched the man set the bird down, pinning it gently under one knee and pulling its neck out across a narrow gutter. For a moment the bird struggled, beating its wings hard against the ground, a few feathers dancing up with the wind. Then it grew completely still. The man pulled the blade across the bird’s neck in a single smooth motion. Blood shot out in a long, crimson ribbon. The man stood up, holding the bird far away from his body, and suddenly tossed it high into the air. It landed with a thud, then struggled to its feet, its head lolling grotesquely against its side, its legs pumping wildly in a wide, wobbly circle. I watched as the circle grew smaller, the blood trickling down to a gurgle, until finally the bird collapsed, lifeless on the grass.
Lolo rubbed his hand across my head and told me and my mother to go wash up before dinner. The three of us ate quietly under a dim yellow bulb—chicken stew and rice, and then a dessert of red, hairy-skinned fruit so sweet at the center that only a stomachache could make me stop. Later, lying alone beneath a mosquito net canopy, I listened to the crickets chirp under the moonlight and remembered the last twitch of life that I’d witnessed a few hours before. I could barely believe my good fortune.
This is a picture of an unemotional, remote, and icy boy. And so he is as man-president.
In the last days alone, Islam and Arab lands have experienced bloodletting in such numbers that it must have touched someone. But, no. These horrendous death-happenings occur so often that they hardly make the newspapers and certainly not television news. Maybe some of you will recognize the word “Kishinev” as the name of a town in Bessarabia—no Arabs lived in the province—where pogroms against its Jews were a common event. But one in particular took place on April 6-7, 1903 (Easter time) and 47 (or 49) Jews were killed, something like 500 injured (many seriously), and 2,000 families left homeless. This stimulated a stir of enormous consequence. A protest letter transferred by President Theodore Roosevelt to the czar was turned back. There were what the French call manifestations all over Europe. The first modern Hebrew poet, H.N. Bialik, memorialized the event in a poem called “Be-Ir ha-Haregah” (“The City of Slaughter”). And Kishinev is known, by Jews at least, as the site of a notable mass murder.
Do you know the name of this town: Mazar-e-Sharif? It is one of the places in Afghanistan where four days ago a Pakistani Sunni terrorist group, likely with the cooperation of the local Taliban, heaped death on worshippers at prayer in three Shia mosques. At reporting time, no less than 68 were dead and hundreds wounded. By now, there are no doubt more numbers to add to what we used to call in Vietnam the “death count.” The Times reports that “Targeted strikes by Sunnis against the minority Shiites are alien to Afghanistan.” Well, here’s a new feature to the routine mass murder among the Muslim faithful. But, like the other ones, there were no protests. These mass murders will vanish not into memory but from memory.
Iraq, from which we will depart before the year is up, has seen continuous killing of the innocent. Last week, at least 32 Shia pilgrims were killed in towns south of Baghdad.
And here’s an irony. The Voice of Russia reports that Iraq has been called in by the Arab League to mediate the civil war in Syria. But, of course, what with more than 4,000 dead (the Israelis think it is more like 5,000), they’re not yet calling it a civil war or even a simple war. Nonetheless, the Times reported that no less than 24 protestors and perhaps as many as 38 were shot to death. Here’s an excuse: If you saw Walters the other night, you would know that Assad said that the troops who killed Syrian civilians were not his troops but government troops. And hearing is believing. She never hinted otherwise.
The Syrians trust the Iraqi Shia who govern in Baghdad. After years of American help and American blood, the Baghdad regime still thinks of the Damascus regime as allies, Shia all. (You don’t have to rely on the Voice of Russia. There are other sources for these developments.)
How will the Syrian bloodletting end? I’ve been hinting here and there that Erdogan’s Turkey will invade its southern neighbor, with which it shares a 560 mile border. The Turks believe that at least Syria’s northern sectors are rightfully theirs. This will not be good for the Kurds in Syria, although they had reason to hope that the end of the good doctor’s rule would mean a big relief for them. What a successful Turkish intervention would mean is hell for the Kurds and a swath of Sunni rule from Turkey through Syria to Jordan to Saudi Arabia to Egypt and the Maghreb beyond. A Sunni swath with increasing government power in the hands of the Salafis and the Muslim Brotherhood. And please don’t forget who rules in Gaza. This is a map with which Barack Obama could very well live. Very well, indeed. Except it won’t be so gentle and civilized as he made out in Cairo almost three years ago and at his annual Ramadan fest in the White House. One more to go. Or five.
Martin Peretz is editor-in-chief emeritus of The New Republic.
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Source URL: http://www.tnr.com/article/world/98405/obama-israel-syria-assad
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Egypt’s PM says economy ‘worse than anyone can imagine’
yalibnan.com ^ | 12-11-11 | Not Listed
Egypt’s new interim prime minister broke into tears in front of journalists on Sunday as he spoke about the state of the country’s economy, saying it was “worse than anyone imagines.”
Egypt’s transition in the months since Hosni Mubarak’s ouster has been rocky, with protests against the military council leading the process, an increase in crime and the battering of the tourism industry that was once a pillar of the economy.
Kamal el-Ganzouri, the third temporary prime minister since Mubarak’s ouster in February, said his priorities were the restoration of security and economic progress.
At one point in his news conference, el-Ganzouri became teary eyed as he recalled seeing “an Egyptian man on TV saying I want security, not bread.”
He said austerity measures were needed to start reducing the deficit but that no new taxes will be imposed. He did not elaborate on exact steps.
El-Ganzouri said his government will not consider loans from the International Monetary Fund until the outlook of the Egyptian budget becomes clear. In the summer, the IMF offered a $3 billion loan, but Egyptian officials turned it down.
The IMF is projecting Egypt’s economic growth to be just 1.2 per cent this year, compared with about 5 per cent in 2010.
“Solidarity is needed to face the economic crisis and security problem for citizens to be pleased with the revolution,” he said.
Urban consumer inflation in Egypt rose to an annual 9.1 per cent in November from 7.1 per cent in October. The unemployment rate in the third quarter climbed to 12 per cent from just under 9 per cent a year earlier. Net international reserves dropped by roughly 40 per cent by the end of October, compared with the end of 2010.
The military council, which stepped in to rule when Mubarak was pushed out, appointed el-Ganzouri and his government at the end of November after a violent crackdown on protesters demanding an end to military rule.
In response to the protests, the previous prime minister, Essam Sharaf, resigned and the head of the military council pledged to transfer power to a civilian administration by July 2012. The council also transferred wide powers to el-Ganzouri’s government in an attempt to show it had independence and that the military council would leave power — though gradually.
El-Ganzouri blamed the last decade of Mubarak’s 30-year rule and the corruption that took place then for the ballooning deficit.
El-Ganzouri is himself a Mubarak-era prime minister who served from 1996 to 1999 but he has not been tainted by corruption.
Still, protesters who dislike him for his part in the old regime have been camped in front of el-Ganzouri’s office in downtown Cairo, forcing him to hold meetings at the Ministry of Planning in a Cairo suburb.
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Kerry calls for US funding to Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood
Israel Matzav ^ | 12/15/11 | Carl in Jerusalem
Posted on December 15, 2011 11:20:45 PM EST by Nachum
Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman John Kerry (D-Ma) is in Egypt where he has been sucking up to the Muslim Brotherhood. With the US already $15 trillion in debt, Kerry wants the International Monetary Fund - for which the US provides the largest piece of the budget - to finance the Muslim Brotherhood's takeover of Egypt.
In addition to praising the Brotherhood’s election as a model of transparency and integrity, Sen. Kerry also called for an infusion of cash from the International Monetary Fund to undergird Egypt’s new Islamist government.
(Excerpt) Read more at israelmatzav.blogspot.co m ...
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bump
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bump
bump back
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bump
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why bump???...I've already destroyed you in this thread
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why bump???...I've already destroyed you in this thread
Agreed.
Egypt is paradise on earth.
Thanks Andre!
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Agreed.
Egypt is paradise on earth.
Thanks Andre!
I guess they were in the Garden of Eden before huh?
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I guess they were in the Garden of Eden before huh?
O-TWINK looks like utter shit in this
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bump -- LMFAO!!!!
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bump -- LMFAO!!!!
about what?
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about what?
The Muslim Bros who Obama supported are banned, ousted and listed as a terrorist group -yeah real victory you FNG fool
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The Muslim Bros who Obama supported are banned, ousted and listed as a terrorist group -yeah real victory you FNG fool
we just need to get out of the middle east period....let Israel deal with it
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33,
the problem isn't fcking liberals... they'll always have that 40% slice of americans.
the problem is RINOs, pretending to be republican, keeping actual conservatives out of office.
You give boehnner's leadership role to Cruz for a year... I bet we see some positive change. It's like libs dress up with a repub t-shirt so no more repubs can get in the party.
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If Obama handled the problem correctly - why did his favored MB get ousted and labled as a terrorist group and banned?
F Obama for his treason, and even worse are those who still support him.
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If Obama handled the problem correctly - why did his favored MB get ousted and labled as a terrorist group and banned?
F Obama for his treason, and even worse are those who still support him.
my my how we twist the facts when we hate someone....
Obama DID NOT favor the MB..he favored FREE ELECTIONS..just like BUSH DID with the palestinians...both Obama and Bush got bitten in the ass bwecause they didn't realize the arabs would be stupid enough to elect the MB and HAMAS
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my my how we twist the facts when we hate someone....
Obama DID NOT favor the MB..he favored FREE ELECTIONS..just like BUSH DID with the palestinians...both Obama and Bush got bitten in the ass bwecause they didn't realize the arabs would be stupid enough to elect the MB and HAMAS
LOL - so Imam Ayatollah Obama el Baracki was just incompetent?
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LOL - so Imam Ayatollah Obama el Baracki was just incompetent?
by wanting free elections??
How does that even compute to you?
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Obama supported an organization that even the Saudis believe are terrorists. The Muslim Brotherhood area despicable lot who upon gaining power in Egypt began a campaign of violence and suppression against Christians. Obama is screwing up Egypt yet again by not working Al Sisi, one of the only major leaders in that region who is actively trying to take proactive steps to defeat radical Islam. For some people Obama blindness will always corrupt their judgement.
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Obama supported an organization that even the Saudis believe are terrorists. The Muslim Brotherhood area despicable lot who upon gaining power in Egypt began a campaign of violence and suppression against Christians. Obama is screwing up Egypt yet again by not working Al Sisi, one of the only major leaders in that region who is actively trying to take proactive steps to defeat radical Islam. For some people Obama blindness will always corrupt their judgement.
The fact is, Obama wanted free elections.....just as Bush did in the middle east...it has ben long-standing policy in the U.S......again..democrac y isn't perfect and Bush got bit as well when he advocated and supported elections in Gaza and HAMAS got elected....
The voice of reason wins again................... .
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The fact is, Obama wanted free elections.....just as Bush did in the middle east...it has ben long-standing policy in the U.S......again..democrac y isn't perfect and Bush got bit as well when he advocated and supported elections in Gaza and HAMAS got elected....
The voice of reason wins again................... .
The fact is that Obama supported and continues to support a terrorist organization. An organization that intimidated voters through violence. Instead of seeing the ascension of a true moderate like Al Sisi as an opportunity, Obama has totally ignored him while also maintaining a relationship with the Muslim Brotherhood. This isn't common sense in the least. As for Bush, I don't have to justify his actions because I didn't vote for him or support his policies. Bush is also not the president now.
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The fact is that Obama supported and continues to support a terrorist organization. An organization that intimidated voters through violence. Instead of seeing the ascension of a true moderate like Al Sisi as an opportunity, Obama has totally ignored him while also maintaining a relationship with the Muslim Brotherhood. This isn't common sense in the least. As for Bush, I don't have to justify his actions because I didn't vote for him or support his policies. Bush is also not the president now.
I don't see any ongoing support for the MB...thats only in your mind.......I like Sisi as well but its never a good idea for the president of the United States to openly support a general who staged a coup on a democratically elected government.....that would be extremely hypocritical...I'm sure Obama and others in the administration like the fact that Sisi took over..they just can't openly say it.....
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I don't see any ongoing support for the MB...thats only in your mind.......I like Sisi as well but its never a good idea for the president of the United States to openly support a general who staged a coup on a democratically elected government.....that would be extremely hypocritical...I'm sure Obama and others in the administration like the fact that Sisi took over..they just can't openly say it.....
I wouldn't expect you to see any ongoing support for the MB. The fact that the Obama administration refuses to call the Muslim Brotherhood a terrorist organization or condemn their actions is a defacto endorsement. The hosted a delegation of Muslim Brotherhood members. As soon as the Muslim Brotherhood came to power they did everything in their power to de-legitimize Egyptian democracy. Obaama said nothing. It was the policies of the Muslim Brotherhood that resulted in their ouster. By the way, Obama himself never called the removal of the Muslim Brotherhood and Morsi a coup.
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I wouldn't expect you to see any ongoing support for the MB. The fact that the Obama administration refuses to call the Muslim Brotherhood a terrorist organization or condemn their actions is a defacto endorsement. The hosted a delegation of Muslim Brotherhood members. As soon as the Muslim Brotherhood came to power they did everything in their power to de-legitimize Egyptian democracy. Obaama said nothing. It was the policies of the Muslim Brotherhood that resulted in their ouster. By the way, Obama himself never called the removal of the Muslim Brotherhood and Morsi a coup.
again ..all in your mind..but why argue with a mental patient???
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again ..all in your mind..but why argue with a mental patient???
In your case, why argue with a fool.
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33,
the problem isn't fcking liberals... they'll always have that 40% slice of americans.
the problem is RINOs, pretending to be republican, keeping actual conservatives out of office.
You give boehnner's leadership role to Cruz for a year... I bet we see some positive change. It's like libs dress up with a repub t-shirt so no more repubs can get in the party.
another post defending liberals by the self proclaimed republican ::)
"240 the Rino" to the rescue !!!
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/03/09/exclusive-el-sisi-urges-arab-ready-force-to-confront-isis-questions-if-us
Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, in an exclusive interview with Fox News, appealed to the U.S. to play a greater role in helping his country fight terrorism -- as he urged the creation of an "Arab ready force" to confront the Islamic State and similar groups.
The Egyptian leader spoke with Fox News' Bret Baier in an extensive interview conducted in Cairo. He addressed the need for what he called a religious "revolution," urging moderate Muslims around the world to "stand up" against terrorists twisting their religion.
But in the short term, he said more military might and funding will be needed to confront the extremist threat and questioned whether the U.S. was doing enough for Egypt.
El-Sisi, speaking mostly through a translator, said that while the U.S. has helped Egypt for decades, Egypt needs that help "more than ever," and wants to see a "big response from capable countries."
He said the suspension of U.S. equipment and arms to his country has sent a "negative indication to the public opinion that the United States is not standing by the Egyptians."
El-Sisi -- who eventually took power after former President Mohammed Morsi was overthrown in 2013 -- was referring to aid and shipments that have been held up in the wake of Morsi's ouster. Though the U.S. continues to deliver nearly $1.5 billion a year in mostly military assistance, some high-profile shipments have been halted since the military leadership overthrew Morsi -- and particularly since the military's crackdown on Islamist groups. This includes holding back on deliveries of F-16 fighter jets, M1A1 tanks and Harpoon missiles.
In December, the Pentagon delivered a previously stalled shipment of 10 Apache helicopters to Egypt.
El-Sisi told Fox News the need for weapons and equipment remains "dire," and Egyptians "would like to feel that the United States is standing by them."
Asked directly how he and other Arab allies view U.S. leadership in the region, he answered briefly in English: "Difficult questions."
He addressed his country's campaign against terrorism weeks after the Islamic State released a video showing 21 Egyptian Christians being beheaded. That video triggered Egyptian airstrikes on ISIS targets in Libya -- airstrikes that, according to the Pentagon, the Egyptians did not notify the U.S. of in advance.
At the time, even the top Pentagon spokesman acknowledged the U.S. and Egypt have a "complex relationship."
While Egypt is not currently launching airstrikes alongside the U.S. and other Arab nations in Iraq and Syria, el-Sisi endorsed the idea of an "Arab ready force" with U.S. backing to take on security challenges.
He said this "ready force" could include his country, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, Jordan and others, and be "capable of defending our national security" and confronting dangers in the region.
The Egyptian president first called for such a regional coalition in a speech last month. In the interview with Fox News, he stressed that ISIS and other groups pose a growing threat.
"We have to admit that terrorism is now a major threat not only to Egypt or even the immediate region, but it is a threat to the stability and security of the whole world," the Egyptian leader said. "We can also see that the map of terrorism and extremism is expanding, it is not recessing."
He also said it's important to push to "reinstate the right meaning of religion." Addressing the role of the Muslim Brotherhood in his country, he spoke out against what he described as "political Islam."
He said the people of Egypt have a "real fear of this kind" of system, adding they feel "these people have turned their lives into a living hell."
He made these remarks in the course of defending the ouster of Morsi, who had been aligned with the Muslim Brotherhood. Responding to characterizations of his removal as a "coup," el-Sisi acknowledged that "free and fair elections" resulted in Morsi's election. But he said millions of Egyptians took to the streets when they wanted to remove that leadership -- he claimed the country was headed into a "vicious cycle of civil war," at the time he and other military leaders intervened.
Meanwhile, amid some concerns expressed by el-Sisi about the U.S. commitment to his country, Secretary of State John Kerry announced Monday he will travel to Egypt on March 12 to attend an economic development conference. Kerry plans to meet with el-Sisi and other senior Egyptian leaders to discuss various issues including efforts to fight ISIS.