Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Nutrition, Products & Supplements Info => Topic started by: Montague on May 28, 2012, 12:29:23 PM
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There've been quite a few threads discussing the practice of intermittent fasting (IF) on Getbig; strangely enough, many of them on the G&O of all places.
For anyone unfamiliar with the concept, IF is a simple premise in which you essentially (typically) utilize an 8-hour eating window and a 16-hour fasting window per 24-hour period.
IF has received praise for being superior to conventional diet approaches - even for bodybuilders looking to optimize fat-loss and muscle preservation.
This thread is for anyone wishing to discuss any and all facets of IF.
Having never tried it myself (yet), I'm quite curious to read about the experiences, results, and finer details of those who have.
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For those who are interested, I've compiled a list of sources you can browse at your leisure to learn more information and opinions on the topic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermittent_fasting
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=70915.0
http://www.paleoplan.com/2012/03-27/a-warning-about-intermittent-fasting/
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-to-intermittent-fasting/#axzz1wBcgHTK0
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/meal-frequency-and-energy-balance-research-review.html
http://rippedhollywoodbody.com/intermittent-fasting/
http://boldanddetermined.com/2011/01/02/live-like-a-spartan-intermittent-fasting/
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=248667.0
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I learnt most of what I know about IF from www.leangains.com
IF is the only method of 'dieting' I have tried that has allowed me to lose significant body fat whilst maintaining all my muscle, and sometimes even continuing to make small gains in strength/muscle whilst losing body fat and not using hormones.
I follow the typical 16 hour fast / 8 feeding window, although I don't follow the leangains macro nutrient cycling.
I would be interested to hear from anyone that has used IF whilst on hormones.
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FWIW
While cutting, I had days where through general busyness/travel I couldn't get down my mega 2400 kcals - so around 3-4pm I would literally stuff down about 2000 kcals worth of clean food. Mainly did this so that I didnt end up eating my muscles during the night lol, always woke the next day looking good so i'm sure it cant hurt.
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In the last two weeks I went Tue,Wed,Thur on one meal a day.
lost around 8lbs,I would get very tired by the end of the three days and I felt flat.no pump to my muscles unless I was lifting or just finished.
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In the last two weeks I went Tue,Wed,Thur on one meal a day.
lost around 8lbs,I would get very tired by the end of the three days and I felt flat.no pump to my muscles unless I was lifting or just finished.
What, specifically, were you eating, and at what time of day?
I think one meal per day may be a little excessive. Optimal results seem to be achieved by eating throughout the 8-hr window. One of my goals of this thread is to not only learn WHO has tried IF, but also to examine the finer details of HOW they used it.
There's a good bit of science to support the benefits of this protocol; even with regards to bodybuilders.
I just need more anecdotal feedback before being brave enough to try it for an extended period.
To many folks, the words "fasting" and "muscle preservation" don't go together. Although, the cascade of different mechanisms this method triggers seem to make sense - particularly the hormonal aspect.
The Bodyrecomposition article is also doing a thorough job of convincing me.
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What, specifically, were you eating, and at what time of day?
I think one meal per day may be a little excessive. Optimal results seem to be achieved by eating throughout the 8-hr window. One of my goals of this thread is to not only learn WHO has tried IF, but also to examine the finer details of HOW they used it.
There's a good bit of science to support the benefits of this protocol; even with regards to bodybuilders.
I just need more anecdotal feedback before being brave enough to try it for an extended period.
To many folks, the words "fasting" and "muscle preservation" don't go together. Although, the cascade of different mechanisms this method triggers seem to make sense - particularly the hormonal aspect.
The Bodyrecomposition article is also doing a thorough job of convincing me.
Late in the afternoon...chicken and a salad
I was mostly going for weight loss,wasn't worried about losing a little muscle.after eating normal on Fri by Sat I filled out and looked good :)
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another fad you won't hear jack shit about in a little while...
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another fad you won't hear jack shit about in a little while...
This one's already been around longer than many fad diets.
Also, unlike its counterparts, the science coming out in regards to this one supports it, rather than discredits it.
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This one's already been around longer than many fad diets.
Also, unlike its counterparts, the science coming out in regards to this one supports it, rather than discredits it.
Kinda makes sense intellectually when thinking about how we evolved.
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This one's already been around longer than many fad diets.
Also, unlike its counterparts, the science coming out in regards to this one supports it, rather than discredits it.
I don't give a crap about the science. When I start to see guys who are big and ripped doing this, I will give it a second look.
There's not much science to prove the whole 6 meals a day thing, but it works and the best f'in physiques on the plantet have been built doing it this way.
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I don't give a crap about the science. When I start to see guys who are big and ripped doing this, I will give it a second look.
There's not much science to prove the whole 6 meals a day thing, but it works and the best f'in physiques on the plantet have been built doing it this way.
The best physiques on the planet are on huge amounts of drugs. But who cares anyway, the topic is around first hand experience with intermittent fasting, not about someone randomly guessing it doesn't work.
Does anyone have the cliff's notes on leangains? I've been there, but the data seems to be all over the place.
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The best physiques on the planet are on huge amounts of drugs. But who cares anyway, the topic is around first hand experience with intermittent fasting, not about someone randomly guessing it doesn't work.
Does anyone have the cliff's notes on leangains? I've been there, but the data seems to be all over the place.
tonnes of guys here with shitty ass physiques who use drugs. Your "point" is void.
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tonnes of guys here with shitty ass physiques who use drugs. Your "point" is void.
My point is that the topic of the thread is intermittent fasting and asking for first hand experience. Every post you have here is "void" and just trolling.
But, to use your own words, you're ony interested in it if it involves "big ripped guys".
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My point is that the topic of the thread is intermittent fasting and asking for first hand experience. Every post you have here is "void" and just trolling.
But, to use your own words, you're ony interested in it if it involves "big ripped guys".
Nice reply, or lack of one. I guess I should have entered the standard no homo so fags like you don't think I'm out for spank material. Fuckin' grow up please.
thanks.
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Fuckin' grow up please.
....says the guy who's trolling and offering nothing to the thread topic.
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Nice reply, or lack of one. I guess I should have entered the standard no homo so fags like you don't think I'm out for spank material. Fuckin' grow up please.
thanks.
I see you're a new member here. Unlike the Gossip & Opinion, the Nutrition board is for serious discussion. As such, it is heavily moderated.
A quick glance at your posting history on this particular forum shows not one post consisting of anything contributing to the discussions. While that is not the problem, posts like the one quoted above violate the rules of this forum:
1. Show common courtesy at all times. Know the difference between a difference of opinion and a personal attack. Don't engage in insults.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=62144.msg935828#msg935828
Please refrain from making these types of posts in the future.
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Tremble before mighty Monty!!! ;D
Seriously though. Can't we all play nice?
On the topic. I'm starving. Haven't eaten since a light lunch at noon.
Thinking about Rotten Ronnie'e on the way home. Nothing makes me more vascular than chicken nuggets.
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Tremble before mighty Monty!!! ;D
Seriously though. Can't we all play nice?
On the topic. I'm starving. Haven't eaten since a light lunch at noon.
Thinking about Rotten Ronnie'e on the way home. Nothing makes me more vascular than chicken nuggets.
Dude, you've got to send me your recipe for the fried chicken tits made with coconut oil!
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I see you're a new member here. Unlike the Gossip & Opinion, the Nutrition board is for serious discussion. As such, it is heavily moderated.
A quick glance at your posting history on this particular forum shows not one post consisting of anything contributing to the discussions. While that is not the problem, posts like the one quoted above violate the rules of this forum:
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=62144.msg935828#msg935828
Please refrain from making these types of posts in the future.
seriously? I read much worse between members, you can't deny that, no moderator steps in. My post was pale in insults to the others.
Saying I have not contributed? Listen, this site is 80% ball busting. And I'm cool with that, not may threads are even serious, if they are, they end up in train wrecks and that's what most come here for. I know my way around the whole food, training, supps and drugs fairly well as I've been at this for 23 years.
So I unerstand you have a job to do, but if you ask of me to behave, then please do the same to every other clown who posts shit on this site.
Thanks.
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Listen, this site is 80% ball busting.
The G&O and Alphabet boards are for that.
We (including Ron) reserve the Training and Nutrition boards for serious discussion on their respective topics.
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Picked up Eat Stop Eat, which looks to be a book on IF but not by the guy who writes leangains.
I'll give it a read and see if it makes sense for me. The trouble I have is that my window would end around 8, and that would ruin booze, so I have to see what it says here.....
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The trouble I have is that my window would end around 8, and that would ruin booze, so I have to see what it says here.....
That's a serious roadblock!
;D
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That's a serious roadblock!
;D
No kidding!
I'm hoping the science isn't so exact! The problem I have is that when I lean out, I get flat and weak. I'm hoping something like this eliminates that. I'm skeptical, but might give it a try.
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No kidding!
I'm hoping the science isn't so exact! The problem I have is that when I lean out, I get flat and weak. I'm hoping something like this eliminates that. I'm skeptical, but might give it a try.
Have you tried having a small amount of protein & fat with the alcohol? Something like cheese?
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No kidding!
I'm hoping the science isn't so exact! The problem I have is that when I lean out, I get flat and weak. I'm hoping something like this eliminates that. I'm skeptical, but might give it a try.
I still have to go over it all again, but the Bodyrecomp article thoroughly details the effects of the hormonal responses as well as anabolism & catabolism mechanisms with regards to the feed/fast timing.
Lyle usually posts good info, and he really did his homework in researching the workings of this protocol.
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dude... i'm on my 3rd beer right now and i just finished eating 6 boneless chicken thighs fried in coconut oil... ("breaded" in coconut flour, fine herbs & pepper)...
time for a banana and some peanut butter...
and maybe
another beer
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tonnes of guys here with shitty ass physiques who use drugs. Your "point" is void.
logic fail, plenty of guys who look like shit eat six meals a day.
his point still stands, the best physiques in the world use drugs, 6 meals a day has little to do with it, you think ronnie coleman looked the way he did due to 6 meals a day?
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besides body composition, this eating style is the best thing you could do for your health, the data bears this out, I can post it if anyone is interested.
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...the data bears this out, I can post it if anyone is interested.
Please do!! Either here, or if you want, you can edit/add them to the links in my second post of this thread.
Thanks! I look forward to the reading!!
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besides body composition, this eating style is the best thing you could do for your health, the data bears this out, I can post it if anyone is interested.
Aside from the physiological benefits from intermittent fasting don't you think eating this way could lead to binge eating for some people?
And please do post the studies regarding the benefits...not that I doubt you just that I've yet to see them.
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Aside from the physiological benefits from intermittent fasting don't you think eating this way could lead to binge eating for some people?
And please do post the studies regarding the benefits...not that I doubt you just that I've yet to see them.
does for me but the binges are lower in calories than the missed meals...
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Aside from the physiological benefits from intermittent fasting don't you think eating this way could lead to binge eating for some people?
I think "some" is the key word, as binging is a very individual trait. Still, as WOOO points out, the total calories you consume in your eating window will not likely exceed what you would have normally eaten throughout the course of the entire day.
Most people may find it hard to eat that much within that time.
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does for me but the binges are lower in calories than the missed meals...
I know with a diet plan with something like on leangains two large meals are consumed during the feeding hours. My concern is if when dropping an IF type diet one would continue to gorge on larger meals simply by way of habit. Binging in general is more of a concern when dieting obviously but for some people including myself it is very easy to get accustomed to certain eating patterns. Not a concern if I would follow IF indefinitely but seriously doubt I ever will. But I know....SELF CONTROL!!!
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I think "some" is the key word, as binging is a very individual trait. Still, as WOOO points out, the total calories you consume in your eating window will not likely exceed what you would have normally eaten throughout the course of the entire day.
Most people may find it hard to eat that much within that time.
I agree.
When eating a regular diet at or above maintenance I doubt it would affect anyone including myself. I have been slowly getting rid of the eat every 3 hour thing with larger meals but at first it was hard to eat so much food. Slowly getting used to it and I'm not even doing the IF yet. I just think some get accustomed to certain habbits and become hard to get rid of. And like you said "some"...definitely!
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I know with a diet plan with something like on leangains two large meals are consumed during the feeding hours. My concern is if when dropping an IF type diet one would continue to gorge on larger meals simply by way of habit. Binging in general is more of a concern when dieting obviously but for some people including myself it is very easy to get accustomed to certain eating patterns. Not a concern if I would follow IF indefinitely but seriously doubt I ever will. But I know....SELF CONTROL!!!
Oh, I get it: you mean if it could lead to binging after going back to conventional eating habits.
I would expect there to be a greater risk in that instance, but again, primarily for people with compulsory habits and/or behavior.
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Aside from the physiological benefits from intermittent fasting don't you think eating this way could lead to binge eating for some people?
And please do post the studies regarding the benefits...not that I doubt you just that I've yet to see them.
my apologies guys, been super busy.
I have a ton here, this is random posting.I'll post more on the effects of hormesis later as it relates to IF.
[http://www.ajcn.org/content/86/1/7.full]
Paper highlights:
"Calorie restriction (CR), defined as a reduction in energy intake without malnutrition, has been shown to increase life span, improve numerous functional indexes, and reduce metabolic risk factors for chronic disease in several mammalian species (1, 2 "). "restricting daily energy intake by 15–40% has been shown in both animals and humans to improve glucose tolerance and insulin action, which indicates an enhancement in insulin sensitivity (7, 8); to reduce blood pressure and the heart rate, which is consistent with benefits for cardiovascular health (9-11); and to reduce oxidative damage to lipids, protein, and DNA, which implies a protective effect against oxidative stress (12-15)" . Many other effects of CR have been documented, including increased average and maximal life span (12), reduced incidence of spontaneous and induced cancers (13), resistance of neurons to degeneration (14), lower rates of kidney disease (15), and prolongation of reproductive function (16). " Although the precise mechanisms responsible for such effects are still not clear, several general hypotheses have been proposed—most prominent are the stress resistance hypothesis, the oxidative stress hypothesis, and the induction of a scarcity program hypothesis (3, 17-19). The first hypothesis suggests that, after prolonged dietary restriction, increased resistance to different types of stressors occurs, which permits the cells of many tissues to resist injury induced by genotoxic, metabolic, or oxidative insults (20-22) The second hypothesis proposes more specifically that fewer free radicals are produced in the mitochondria of cells, because dietary restriction generally limits energy utilization, which results in less cellular oxidative damage (3). The third hypothesis proposes that CR induces intrinsic cellular and organismal programs for adaptation to scarcity, which result in the slowing of metabolic processes such as cell proliferation that contribute to senescence; this hypothesis has been strengthened by findings in yeast (19). The effects of ADF on these proposed mechanisms have not been explored as extensively as have the effects of CR, but some evidence has been generated, and that will be reviewed here. " To date, 12 studies using animal models have examined the effect of ADF on chronic disease risk (23-34; Table 1). Approximately half of these studies examined variables related to diabetes, such as fasting glucose and insulin concentrations, fat oxidation, degree of insulitis, and occurrence of type 2 diabetes. Fasting glucose concentrations have generally been reported to decrease in response to ADF in animal models. Three studies found reduced circulating glucose concentrations after a 20–24-wk intervention (27, 30), whereas one study reported no effect on glucose concentrations after a 16-wk treatment (24). In the trials that measured insulin concentrations, consistent reductions were noted after ADF regimens that lasted 20 (27) and 24 (28) wk. It is interesting that, in the study of Anson et al (27), both glucose and insulin concentrations decreased to a similar extent in the ADF and the 40% CR groups. Increases in fat oxidation in liver and muscle have also been observed after relatively short periods (8 wk) of ADF (33). Because impaired fat oxidation may contribute to ectopic accumulation of intracellular lipid and the development of insulin resistance (35), these increases in fat oxidation may increase insulin sensitivity. Also noted by Anson et al was a doubling of the plasma concentrations of ß-hydroxybutyrate in the ADF group but no change in the control group. In contrast, concentrations of this metabolite decreased in the 40% CR group but not in the control group (27). These results suggest that high rates of fatty acid oxidation leading to ketogenesis occurred with ADF but not with 40% CR. Moreover, reduced occurrence of insulin-dependent diabetes in response to ADF has been reported by Pedersen et al (30). These authors found that 77% of the BB rats fed ad libitum control diets developed diabetes, whereas only 52% of the animals fasted for 24 h on alternate days became diabetic. The degree of insulitis, however, was not affected, which suggested that the mechanism most likely did not involve modulation of this inflammatory variable (30).
Effect of intermittent fasting and refeeding on insulin action in healthy men
Nils Halberg,1 Morten Henriksen,1 Nathalie Söderhamn,1 Bente Stallknecht,1Thorkil Ploug,1 Peter Schjerling,2 and Flemming Dela1
1Copenhagen Muscle Research Centre, Department of Medical Physiology, The Panum Institute, University of Copenhagen, Denmark; and 2Copenhagen Muscle Research Center, Department of Molecular Muscle Biology, Rigshospitalet, Denmark
Submitted 9 June 2005 ; accepted in final form 22 July 2005
Insulin resistance is currently a major health problem. This may be because of a marked decrease in daily physical activity during recent decades combined with constant food abundance. This lifestyle collides with our genome, which was most likely selected in the late Paleolithic era (50,000–10,000 BC) by criteria that favored survival in an environment characterized by fluctuations between periods of feast and famine. The theory of thrifty genes states that these fluctuations are required for optimal metabolic function. We mimicked the fluctuations in eight healthy young men [25.0 ± 0.1 yr (mean ± SE); body mass index: 25.7 ± 0.4 kg/m2] by subjecting them to intermittent fasting every second day for 20 h for 15 days. Euglycemic hyperinsulinemic (40 mU·min–1·m–2) clamps were performed before and after the intervention period. Subjects maintained body weight (86.4 ± 2.3 kg; coefficient of variation: 0.8 ± 0.1%). Plasma free fatty acid and -hydroxybutyrate concentrations were 347 ± 18 and 0.06 ± 0.02 mM, respectively, after overnight fast but increased (P < 0.05) to 423 ± 86 and 0.10 ± 0.04 mM after 20-h fasting, confirming that the subjects were fasting. Insulin-mediated whole body glucose uptake rates increased from 6.3 ± 0.6 to 7.3 ± 0.3 mg·kg–1·min–1 (P = 0.03), and insulin-induced inhibition of adipose tissue lipolysis was more prominent after than before the intervention (P = 0.05). After the 20-h fasting periods, plasma adiponectin was increased compared with the basal levels before and after the intervention (5,922 ± 991 vs. 3,860 ± 784 ng/ml,P = 0.02). This experiment is the first in humans to show that intermittent fasting increases insulin-mediated glucose uptake rates, and the findings are compatible with the thrifty gene concept.
Prostate Cancer Prostatic Dis. 2010 Dec;13(4):350-5. Epub 2010 Aug 24.
Effect of intermittent fasting on prostate cancer tumor growth in a mouse model.
Thomas JA 2nd, Antonelli JA, Lloyd JC, Masko EM, Poulton SH, Phillips TE, Pollak M, Freedland SJ.
Source
Division of Urologic Surgery, Department of Surgery, Duke Prostate Center, Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC 27710, USA.
Abstract
Caloric restriction (CR) has been shown to have anti-cancer properties. However, CR may be difficult to apply in humanssecondary to compliance and potentially deleterious effects. An alternative is intermittent CR, or in the extreme caseintermittent fasting (IF). In a previous small pilot study, we found 2 days per week of IF with ad libitum feeding on the other days resulted in trends toward prolonged survival of mice bearing prostate cancer xenografts. We sought to confirm these findings in a larger study. A total of 100 (7- to 8-week-old) male severe combined immunodeficiency mice were injected subcutaneously with 1 × 10(5) LAPC-4 prostate cancer cells. Mice were randomized to either ad libitum Western Diet (44% carbohydrates, 40% fat and 16% protein) or ad libitum Western Diet with twice-weekly 24 h fasts (IF). Tumor volumes and mouse bodyweights were measured twice weekly. Mice were killed when tumor volumes reached 1000 mm(3). Serum and tumor were collected for analysis of the insulin/insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) hormonal axis. Overall, there was no difference in mouse survival (P=0.37) or tumor volumes (P ≥ 0.10) between groups. Mouse body weights were similar between arms (P=0.84). IF mice had significantly higher serum IGF-1 levels and IGF-1/IGFBP-3 ratios at killing (P<0.001). However, no difference was observed in serum insulin, IGFBP-3 or tumor phospho-Akt levels (P ≥ 0.39). IF did not improve mouse survival nor did it delay prostate tumor growth. This may be secondary to metabolic adaptations to the 24 h fastingperiods. Future studies are required to optimize CR for application in humans
Int J Obes (Lond). 2011 May;35(5):714-27. Epub 2010 Oct 5.
The effects of intermittent or continuous energy restriction on weight loss and metabolic disease risk markers: a randomized trial in young overweight women.
Harvie MN, Pegington M, Mattson MP, Frystyk J, Dillon B, Evans G, Cuzick J, Jebb SA, Martin B, Cutler RG, Son TG, Maudsley S,Carlson OD, Egan JM, Flyvbjerg A, Howell A.
Source
Genesis Prevention Centre, University Hospital of South Manchester NHS Foundation Trust, Manchester, UK. michelle.harvie@manchester.ac.uk
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
The problems of adherence to energy restriction in humans are well known.
OBJECTIVE:
To compare the feasibility and effectiveness of intermittent continuous energy (IER) with continuous energy restriction (CER) for weight loss, insulin sensitivity and other metabolic disease risk markers.
DESIGN:
Randomized comparison of a 25% energy restriction as IER (∼ 2710 kJ/day for 2 days/week) or CER (∼ 6276 kJ/day for 7 days/week) in 107 overweight or obese (mean (± s.d.) body mass index 30.6 (± 5.1) kg m(-2)) premenopausal women observed over a period of 6 months. Weight, anthropometry, biomarkers for breast cancer, diabetes, cardiovascular disease and dementia risk; insulin resistance (HOMA), oxidative stress markers, leptin, adiponectin, insulin-like growth factor (IGF)-1 and IGF binding proteins 1 and 2, androgens, prolactin, inflammatory markers (high sensitivity C-reactive protein and sialic acid), lipids, blood pressure and brain-derived neurotrophic factor were assessed at baseline and after 1, 3 and 6 months.
RESULTS:
Last observation carried forward analysis showed that IER and CER are equally effective for weight loss: mean (95% confidence interval ) weight change for IER was -6.4 (-7.9 to -4.8) kg vs -5.6 (-6.9 to -4.4) kg for CER (P-value for difference between groups = 0.4). Both groups experienced comparable reductions in leptin, free androgen index, high-sensitivity C-reactive protein, total and LDL cholesterol, triglycerides, blood pressure and increases in sex hormone binding globulin, IGF binding proteins 1 and 2. Reductions in fasting insulin and insulin resistance were modest in both groups, but greater with IER than with CER; difference between groups for fasting insulin was -1.2 (-1.4 to -1.0) μU ml(-1) and for insulin resistance was -1.2 (-1.5 to -1.0) μU mmol(-1) l(-1) (both P = 0.04).
CONCLUSION:
IER is as effective as CER with regard to weight loss, insulin sensitivity and other health biomarkers, and may be offered as an alternative equivalent to CER for weight loss and reducing disease risk.
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careful with the conclusions of studies from obese patients.
Obesity (Silver Spring). 2010 Nov;18(11):2152-9. Epub 2010 Mar 18.
Improvements in coronary heart disease risk indicators by alternate-day fasting involve adipose tissue modulations.
Bhutani S, Klempel MC, Berger RA, Varady KA.
Source
Department of Kinesiology and Nutrition, University of Illinois at Chicago, Chicago, Illinois, USA.
Abstract
The ability of alternate-day fasting (ADF) to modulate adipocyte parameters in a way that is protective against coronary heart disease (CHD) has yet to be tested. Accordingly, we examined the effects of ADF on adipokine profile, body composition, and CHD risk indicators in obese adults. Sixteen obese subjects (12 women/4 men) participated in a 10-week trial with three consecutive dietary intervention phases: (i) 2-week baseline control phase, (ii) 4-week ADF controlled feeding phase, and (iii) 4-week ADF self-selected feeding phase. After 8 weeks of treatment, body weight and waist circumference were reduced (P < 0.05) by 5.7 ± 0.9 kg, and 4.0 ± 0.9 cm, respectively. Fat mass decreased (P < 0.05) by 5.4 ± 0.8 kg, whereas fat-free mass did not change. Plasma adiponectin was augmented (P < 0.05) by 30% from baseline. Leptin and resistin concentrations were reduced (P < 0.05) by 21 and 23%, respectively, post treatment. Low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C) and triacylglycerol concentrations were 25% and 32% lower (P < 0.05), respectively, after 8 weeks of ADF. High-density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-C), C-reactive protein, and homocysteine concentrations did not change. Decreases in LDL-C were related to increased adiponectin (r = -0.61, P = 0.01) and reduced waist circumference (r = 0.39, P = 0.04). Lower triacylglycerol concentrations were associated with augmented adiponectin (r = -0.39, P = 0.04) and reduced leptin concentrations (r = 0.45, P = 0.03) post-treatment. These findings suggest that adipose tissue parameters may play an important role in mediating the cardioprotective effects of ADF in obese humans.
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Good stuff!
Thank you.
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Good stuff!
Thank you.
there is quite a bit more, some studies on osteoarthritis, asthma, allergies etc... for the healthy population reducing metabolic markers of CVD is probably it's most potent effect. The improvments in longevity seen in murine and other in vivo models are on par with caloric restriction despite caloric intake being higher, very cool stuff. I'll post more as i get time.
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there is quite a bit more, some studies on osteoarthritis, asthma, allergies etc... for the healthy population reducing metabolic markers of CVD is probably it's most potent effect. The improvments in longevity seen in murine and other in vivo models are on par with caloric restriction despite caloric intake being higher, very cool stuff. I'll post more as i get time.
Please.
And, thank you, again!!
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I want to give leangains a shot, sounds like a great and maintainable way to diet:
My plan is to fast from 20:00 to 12:00 and then follow the diet below
Here's the diet I thought of:
500g chicken breast
6 tsp low fat mayo
6 slices wholegrain bread /110g* pasta /110g* white rice
2 small bananas
*uncooked
4 whole eggs
80g oats
2 tbsp honey
Or
MRP (41g protein, 47g carbs)
300g sirloin steak (visible fat removed)
Veg
Turns out to be around 2500kcal, 230g protein, 210g carbs, 83g fat.
What do you guys think?
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I want to give leangains a shot, sounds like a great and maintainable way to diet:
My plan is to fast from 20:00 to 12:00 and then follow the diet below
Here's the diet I thought of:
500g chicken breast
6 tsp low fat mayo
6 slices wholegrain bread /110g* pasta /110g* white rice
2 small bananas
*uncooked
4 whole eggs
80g oats
2 tbsp honey
Or
MRP (41g protein, 47g carbs)
300g sirloin steak (visible fat removed)
Veg
Turns out to be around 2500kcal, 230g protein, 210g carbs, 83g fat.
What do you guys think?
If you wanna do leangains exactly as its laid out you will be training 3 days a week. During these days you will set your calories 20% above maintenance with having a higher amount of carbs. You will rest 4 days out of the week and set your calories 20% under maintenance and have less carbs.
Actually....take a look at this site to get the guidelines on how to do it exactly as its laid out
http://rippedbody.jp/2011/10/08/leangains-intermittent-fasting-guide-how-to-do-it-by-yourself/
I actually tried it out and found it too restrictive for my liking. Bottom line is if you wanna loose weight you gotta eat less there's no other way around it. I did keep a principle to my diet though and its not to eat as soon as I wake up instead I have some dianabol...lol. Im not kidding btw
The reason why I do this is that I have problems sleeping through the whole night and I save some calories for this time. Though I'll eat good food like tuna, egg whites along with some vegetables like broccoli or celery. So when I wake up in the morning I'm not too concerned with eating right away since it hasn't been TOO LONG since my last meal.
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If you wanna do leangains exactly as its laid out you will be training 3 days a week. During these days you will set your calories 20% above maintenance with having a higher amount of carbs. You will rest 4 days out of the week and set your calories 20% under maintenance and have less carbs.
Actually....take a look at this site to get the guidelines on how to do it exactly as its laid out
http://rippedbody.jp/2011/10/08/leangains-intermittent-fasting-guide-how-to-do-it-by-yourself/
I actually tried it out and found it too restrictive for my liking. Bottom line is if you wanna loose weight you gotta eat less there's no other way around it. I did keep a principle to my diet though and its not to eat as soon as I wake up instead I have some dianabol...lol. Im not kidding btw
The reason why I do this is that I have problems sleeping through the whole night and I save some calories for this time. Though I'll eat good food like tuna, egg whites along with some vegetables like broccoli or celery. So when I wake up in the morning I'm not too concerned with eating right away since it hasn't been TOO LONG since my last meal.
Lol, dbol=breakfast of champions.
I usually have big appetite so I think LG will work well for me because I love having a full stomach. And calorie restriction is much easier this way in my opinion.
I will try it for a month and see how it goes. Its the only way I'm gonna find out. I'm not really gonna count calories, I'm just gonna eat filling, "clean" food, and that by itself is gonna leave a good calorie restriction.
The thing that interested me about fasting is the increased catecholamine and hgh levels in the fasted state. I also like the fact that I don't have to worry about food, just gonna shoot for 100-200g protein a day.
I also set up the training differently, I'm still going to do Reverse Pyramid training but split it up over 5 days. Monday bench + accessory, Tuesday deadlift + accessory, Wednesday arms, Thursday squats + accessory, Friday military press + accessory.
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Yeah...it's good to play around with the way its set up cause for me it was too restrictive. Its very easy to underestimate your calorie levels though so keep an eye on that. Try it out... you'll love it at first but after a while you'll come to the realization that its just another diet...sorry to sound kind of negative but that's what I experienced.
On paper it sounds great especially the part about having large meals and feeling satiated longer. But the truth is that once you get lower and lower in bodyfat you're gonna have to drop those calories and you're gonna be hungry no matter what.
Anyway, good luck and let me know how it works out for you. Maybe you'll have better results than I did. :)
Lol, dbol=breakfast of champions.
I usually have big appetite so I think LG will work well for me because I love having a full stomach. And calorie restriction is much easier this way in my opinion.
I will try it for a month and see how it goes. Its the only way I'm gonna find out. I'm not really gonna count calories, I'm just gonna eat filling, "clean" food, and that by itself is gonna leave a good calorie restriction.
The thing that interested me about fasting is the increased catecholamine and hgh levels in the fasted state. I also like the fact that I don't have to worry about food, just gonna shoot for 100-200g protein a day.
I also set up the training differently, I'm still going to do Reverse Pyramid training but split it up over 5 days. Monday bench + accessory, Tuesday deadlift + accessory, Wednesday arms, Thursday squats + accessory, Friday military press + accessory.
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Hey all, it's been a LONG time since I've been on here, but I actually came to check out what you guys were talking about for intermittent fasting.
I first became aware of it back in 2007 when I first read 'EAT STOP EAT', which, when I read it, I thought it was the answer to all of my prayers!! All I had to do was suffer a little bit twice a week, then I could eat whatever I wanted the rest of the time!! This backfired pretty heavily on me... Maybe I'm prone to binge-eating, but I found that during each of my 24-hour fasts, I thought about nothing but food the entire time, so when it was time to eat... I ATE EVERYTHING I COULD GET MY HANDS ON!! I'd end up gaining weight the day after a 24-hour fast...
That said, I recently (past few months) stumbled onto LeanGains... Which I initially found through Lyle McDonald's site. It made a LOT MORE sense to me. I mean, the quick jist of it is: SKIP BREAKFAST. That's it!?!? There have been plenty of days that I've skipped breakfast just because I was running late!
I recently became a Dad (my son was born on July 7th, 2012) and I've been using this type of fasting for the last 2 weeks and it's working quite well. After about a week of it, I really wasn't even starving when it came time to eat lunch - so your body definitely gets more used to it (the first few days especially, I felt like a ravenous pig by lunch time)...
The actual LeanGains protocol is a bit more strict than simply "skipping breakfast", but as a new Dad who works 40-50 hours in an office, I'm just doing it as simple as I can...
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One more thing... I think I noticed that someone was asking for the "Cliff Notes" version of LeanGains, because his Blog is a bit hard to navigate.
Here's the program rundown link: http://www.leangains.com/search/label/Leangains%20Guide
Also, somebody mentioned BOOZE in relation to fasting... Martin's got probably the BEST article I've ever read about the effects of alcohol on body composition and how to best diet around drinking (and I've done EXTENSIVE research over the years on this very topic)... Here's the link: http://www.leangains.com/search/label/Leangains%20Guide
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Didn't read thread but... intermittent fasting is AWESOME... I am in the month of ramadan and it is so nice for leaning out. The first few days are rough as i drop calories but after less than a week your workouts stay okay and improve gradually as ramadan progresses. You can really lean out and increase insulin sensitivity and even put on some strength once adjusted especially if not natty :P
On top of that.. using ipamorelin is fantastic... and hgh frag 176... the later works amazing... last ramadan i used it... this ramadan i just started it few days ago and im already seeing a difference...
In Islam we fast ramadan obviously but we can also fast additional fasts out of our own choice any day. For me it's a no brainer to reap the physical benefit and reward with God by fasting ocassionally :)
Anyone who's tried fasting has benefited from it. Doctors even recommend it if your bloods are screwed... so again not a big brainer... just try it and be patient. It takes discipline. After all pros cutting takes discipline and fasting takes discipline.
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Didn't read thread but... intermittent fasting is AWESOME... I am in the month of ramadan and it is so nice for leaning out. The first few days are rough as i drop calories but after less than a week your workouts stay okay and improve gradually as ramadan progresses. You can really lean out and increase insulin sensitivity and even put on some strength once adjusted especially if not natty :,
My friend at work is also currently observing Ramadan. I just made the connection last week between that and IF, and mentioned the protocol to her. She is very interested in knowing more about the nutritional science behind it. Your post reminded me I need to get together some information for her.
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I'm currently doing if and loving it
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http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=481167.msg6826714#msg6826714
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My experience with IF, I was on test and mast and I ate once a day at about 7-8 at night woke up at 4 am work all day lift around 4 pm for around 8 weeks dropped from around 235 to 199 in 8 weeks when I would eat I would eat as many eggs or as much chicken as I could stomache let that settle then eat whatever else the wife cooked basically ate for an hour solid, after that ide add in meals later in the day until I was back to normal eating so I didn't rebound and look like shit. It worked but I'm never going to do it again because I was an assssssshole
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Intermittent fasting mixed with Keto is some of the best fat loss you'll ever experience...Not only will you be able to eat at your regular TDEE and spare muscle because you won't be using any carbs so instead of recomping you'll just be losing fat because fat stores are being used for energy and you aren't in a surplus..If you stop eating at say 6pm and wake up at 7am that is about 6 hrs of 60 cal/hr of fat burning PER DAY ALONE FROM FASTING once in ketosis <---Which will be using fat as energy itself... 60cal/hr after 7 hours because you regularly become fasted after 7 hour period.. With this system you can eat if your TDEE is 3,000 you can eat 3,000 in a 11 hr period from 7am to 6pm so you won't be starving..You'll be sparing more muscle than ever, while burning the most fat... ::)
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i love IF....But since i had my gallbladder removed 2 years ago it isnt always easy..i was fine on IF..but now that the GB is gone i can do it for about a week and start getting abdominal pain....so i usually just do IF monday-friday...then eat 3 squars on the weekend
bench
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This has been an incredible diet so far
I'm more ripped than I've ever dreamed and I've done minimal cardio and no cravings
My shoulders are shredded and my lower abs are completely flat
I've got veins I've never seen before
It's amazing
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I think I need to try this after my goruck.
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I think I need to try this after my goruck.
its worth a shot..if i were able i would do IF for the rest of my life
jjust dont think of it as a diet..cause its not...just scheduling
bench
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its worth a shot..if i were able i would do IF for the rest of my life
jjust dont think of it as a diet..cause its not...just scheduling
bench
Thanks - I agree with you.
Figuring out the proper time window is what would be important to me.....right now feels like the standard 12-8 feeding window would be optimal....
I guess this kills the beers after 8 though?
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Thanks - I agree with you.
Figuring out the proper time window is what would be important to me.....right now feels like the standard 12-8 feeding window would be optimal....
I guess this kills the beers after 8 though?
You're okay up til 7:59.
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I did IF once, ended up fatter because i wasnt counting cals. Id easily put down 4000 cals in that 4 hr window. Bullshit of a diet unless you adtual still monitor caloric intake in that window
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I did IF once, ended up fatter because i wasnt counting cals. Id easily put down 4000 cals in that 4 hr window. Bullshit of a diet unless you adtual still monitor caloric intake in that window
yeah the cals add up fast
U really gotta pay attention
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IF (imho) is nothing more than what Americans did about 20 years ago..re incarnated and labeled. It works imo simply because I've done it whenever I get out of control and fall off.
Growing up I was never a breakfast kid at all, so it was just called skipping breakfast but even if you ate breakfast most households shut down the kitchen around 6-8 pm. If you get up and eat around 8am there is a nice 12-14 hour window from your last meal.
If you didn't eat breakfast like me you hit about 16-20. Then you ate through that window to 6-8pm and you did it as part of normal life. Add in a gym life and you pretty much would have a nice build low to moderate bodyfat..but you weren't going to ever be a fat ass guaranteed becuase of the deficit you created for yourself in regards to cals by not being sedentary like the present sedentary lives we have.
From my own experiences up to present..whenever I've lived my life outside of the so called IF strategy I gain body fat, usually b/c I'm eating like shit, out having fun with humans and social life, my work life balance is shit, i'm not going to a gym..etc...when i'm ON and fasting 16+, half ass tracking calories/macros, do a carb backload/refeed day once a week and hit the gym 6 days week minimum lift/cardio split, ....180 degree difference, massive body fat drops, weight, I lose pretty much no muscle and I feel like an idiot for getting out of shape..but hey I got the genes to pull it off so fuck it. ;)
Anywho...the fast food juggarnaut industry along with long work hours, lack of discipline, "it's ok to be fat" evolution, pills can fix everything, fad diets generation we live in pretty much has the average american in chains.
The average joe or jan simply needs to go back in time and restrict their feeding window, stay in their cal zones (learn to weight/track shit and prep your meals) and simply walked 6 days a week around their neighborhood...I can pretty much guarantee they'd drop insane bodyfat and lean out over a 12 week window.
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It's shaved off about 30 pounds for me, permanently. Monday through Friday I eat Lunch and dinner ONLY. I make sure lunch is kinda small, like soup.
It's not for everyone, but it works...