The only thing I use the Smith for is close-grip bench.
I don't use Smith Machine.......it allows for one plane of movement and that is not sufficient for the type of growth that I am looking for. It effectively eliminates the stabilizer muscles and that is not functional strength.
I wouldn't advocate squating or doing any heavy compound movements on Smith Machine.
DIV
OK WTF if you are filming yourself using the smith machine you have issuesPEC TEARS USUALLY OCCUR AT THE BOTTOM OF THE MOVEMENT, THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS SOMEPEOPLE AVOID GOING ALL THE WAY DOWN..
I am not going to get into pros cons etc of smith but 315 on the smith is not Film material
Also am I the only guy who actually touches chest on bench movements? And shoulders on presses? O is losing a couple of inches there I hate it when people do that(traing partners in college always did) .
Also am I the only guy who actually touches chest on bench movements? And shoulders on presses? O is losing a couple of inches there I hate it when people do that(traing partners in college always did) .
Further more I doubt that even the weakest pros and most lazy trained ones are weak by any means.I think they are mostly lazy.I know people who do the same,just like to train for pump but when you give them the big wieghts they still can handle them easily.
DIV I have to disagreeWELL SAID, VERY TRUE.
Why is it that someone always says the 300 pound meathead isn't strong its just a ridiculous argument
Remember a lot of BB types are pre exhausting and doing more volume set and rep wise so of course they are not bouncing the heaviest weights every set
And thirdly a pump is the greatest thing your talking about bringing all of that nutrient rich blood into the muscle
Don't think because someone is carefully doing cables to pump blood into a small muscle that means they cannot squat, bench, row
And last Ronnie is strong as shit period
Most "powerlifters" are just fat guys in bench shirts arching there backs and using there legs don't even mention any assisted lifts to me
Bodybuilders who are using less weight are doing the lift correctly and using there chest
The research shows that there is a positive linear correlation between size (muscle cross-sectional area) and strength (peak torque output), it holds true when comparing different individuals regardless of gender. In general, size and strength DO go hand-in-hand. Ever see a 150 lbs. guy benching 405?EXACTLY, GOOD POST.
Like the other guys said, in my gym it's the big boys (both BB's and powerlifter-types) who are benching, squatting, DL'ing. They may finish up their routine with a couple of sets with cables or whatever. The average joe is going through the motions with machines and cables and 25 lbs. dumbbells.
The argument that powerlifters have "functional strength" and BB's don't is BS. Just because one carries alot of muscle doesn't mean they are not strong, or functional. IMO, powerlifting these days has come down to who is the best "equipped", not who in fact is the strongest.
Jus my 2 cents
Why is it that someone always says the 300 pound meathead isn't strong its just a ridiculous argument
Remember a lot of BB types are pre exhausting and doing more volume set and rep wise so of course they are not bouncing the heaviest weights every set
And thirdly a pump is the greatest thing your talking about bringing all of that nutrient rich blood into the muscle
Don't think because someone is carefully doing cables to pump blood into a small muscle that means they cannot squat, bench, row
And last Ronnie is strong as shit period
Most "powerlifters" are just fat guys in bench shirts arching there backs and using there legs don't even mention any assisted lifts to me
Bodybuilders who are using less weight are doing the lift correctly and using there chest
The research shows that there is a positive linear correlation between size (muscle cross-sectional area) and strength (peak torque output), it holds true when comparing different individuals regardless of gender. In general, size and strength DO go hand-in-hand. Ever see a 150 lbs. guy benching 405?
The argument that powerlifters have "functional strength" and BB's don't is BS. Just because one carries alot of muscle doesn't mean they are not strong, or functional. IMO, powerlifting these days has come down to who is the best "equipped", not who in fact is the strongest.
Powerlifters are stronger than BB, that's a given. As far as who's strength is more functional, that is more of a matter of opinion. A powerlifter's strength is functional for strength's sake alone, to be able to lift a large amount of weight, and to be able to continuously improve the amount he can lift for a given lift. A BB strength is functional for the purpose of his goal in shaping his body, that's it. The amount of weight he pushes or pulls or what types of lifts he is doing doesn't matter, as long as it gets the job done of shaping the muscles in the desired fashion...what strength he gains is just an added bonus.
Finally, does it really matter which one is more "functional"? Strength has its place in both powerlifting and BB circles, but again it is in the whole scope of things irrelevant. Be it you powerlift or BB, do what you like and what gives you the most satisfaction. Either way, your still better off than the majority of people who sit around doing nothing.
Finally, does it really matter which one is more "functional"? Strength has its place in both powerlifting and BB circles, but again it is in the whole scope of things irrelevant. Be it you powerlift or BB, do what you like and what gives you the most satisfaction. Either way, your still better off than the majority of people who sit around doing nothing.
Correlation does not equal Causation. That is basic scientific principle. Yes there are smaller guys benching three times their weight. They are powerlifters in the lower weight classes.
I never said bodybuilders have no functional strength. You'd think with all that extra muscle they would be somewhat strong. They just aren't as proportionally strong as powerlifters/strength lifters. I've never seen a powerlifter do cables........ever.
That should tell you something.
DIV
"Functional strength" is a relative term. Functional for what? TO excel in a sport, improve one's ability to carry out household chores, to become a good at fighting, to become a great lover? However you define "functional", I don't agree that either BB or powerlifting is better suited to developing functional strength in one area. There are other factors that (such as specific training exposure, motivation, physiological characteristics, biomechanics, kinanthropometry, etc.) will ultimately determine level of "functional strength."
Baby Arnold,
When I say "functional", it's very clear what I mean. Strength that applies to real world situations, not "body shaping" for a beauty pageant. Strength that allows you to lift people out of your way, break bones, deter people from ever making the mistake of fu.cking with you. That's one clear example.
Real applications.
DIV
SIZE DETERS PEOPLE.
A Glock on the hip also helps. ;)
Guns are not the way out, they usually only lead to more problems.
Trust me, Blake.
DIV
PEC TEARS USUALLY OCCUR AT THE BOTTOM OF THE MOVEMENT, THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS SOMEPEOPLE AVOID GOING ALL THE WAY DOWN..
Baby Arnold,Yes, I see your point, and I agree with you, someone who trains in a powerlifter fashion is going to be stronger, which in turn will benefit them more in "real world" situations as you say. I know you are not saying BB are not strong, I understand your point, but to add to it all, any BB that is worth his salt is going to have some of this same "functional" "real world" strength. A good BB training routine is going to be based on the basic lifts just as a powerlifters, i.e. squats, presses, deads, etc. True, the reps are never as low, so inturn, the weight is never as high, but a good solid BB builds his routines around the basics, same as a powerlifter.
When I say "functional", it's very clear what I mean. Strength that applies to real world situations, not "body shaping" for a beauty pageant. Strength that allows you to lift people out of your way, break bones, deter people from ever making the mistake of fu.cking with you. That's one clear example.
Functional means being able to lift heavy weights from point A to point B......not for the sake of "pump". Do you see my point?
Real applications.
DIV
Yes, I see your point, and I agree with you, someone who trains in a powerlifter fashion is going to be stronger, which in turn will benefit them more in "real world" situations as you say. I know you are not saying BB are not strong, I understand your point, but to add to it all, any BB that is worth his salt is going to have some of this same "functional" "real world" strength. A good BB training routine is going to be based on the basic lifts just as a powerlifters, i.e. squats, presses, deads, etc. True, the reps are never as low, so inturn, the weight is never as high, but a good solid BB builds his routines around the basics, same as a powerlifter.
So we finally see eye to eye on this......You've been around these boards long enough, most of the people on the boards thrive on creating drama. But I'm glad that a lot of us here can have difference of opinions and discusion on the topics at hand without pointless bitching, and pointless bashing of the others opinion. You'll notice I said "a lot of us" which means some on here do not get to be included in this group...you know damn well who you are, so kindly leave.
Never realized this would stir up so much drama. ;D
DIV
Yes, I see your point, and I agree with you, someone who trains in a powerlifter fashion is going to be stronger, which in turn will benefit them more in "real world" situations as you say. I know you are not saying BB are not strong, I understand your point, but to add to it all, any BB that is worth his salt is going to have some of this same "functional" "real world" strength. A good BB training routine is going to be based on the basic lifts just as a powerlifters, i.e. squats, presses, deads, etc. True, the reps are never as low, so inturn, the weight is never as high, but a good solid BB builds his routines around the basics, same as a powerlifter.I'VE STAYED OUTTA THIS ONE BUT I CAN'T ANYMORE.MOST OF YOU ARE DEAD WRONG ABOUT BB'S.FOR STARTERS,@ 5'10 AND APPROX 250 LBS,I HAVE A DECENT AMOUNT OF SIZE...YET I CAN STILL TAKE SOMEONES HEAD OFF WITH A KICK.MAYBE THE MORONS WHO DON'T KNOW HOW TO STRETCH PROPERLY,AND DON'T DO IT OFTEN ENOUGH,CAN'T DO FULL REPS.I CAN.I TOUCH MY CHEST WHEN I BENCH AND I SQUAT TO THE BUCKET.FUNCTIONAL STRENGTH?HOW FUNCTIONAL CAN IT BE IN ANYONE'S WORLD IF YOU HAVE TO REST 2+ MINUTES JUST TO GET YOUR 1 REP MAX.LIFT AT YOUR HEAVIEST POSSIBLE WEIGHT WITH 30 SECONDS REST AND I'LL SHOW YOU FUNCTIONALITY.I'M SURE HAVING THAT MUCH MORE ANAEROBIC CAPACITY WILL HELP ME IN "THE REAL WORLD" WHERE YOU DON'T GET A CHANCE TO REST.
http://home.comcast.net/~jasonlandry/Benching.mov