Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: Slick Vic on January 03, 2006, 06:39:43 PM
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According to Anabolics 2005, it states that insulin may be bought over-the-counter yet my friend claims you need a prescription. Who's right? ???
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it's fairly easy to aquire these days...However, go into walgreens and try to buy it without a script...
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Fella's I buy HumulinR over the counter all the time, its about 33.00 us dollars. You can't buy Humalog over the counter you have to get a persciption. I live in Washington state. ;)
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if u look hard enough u can find what ur looking for, the net is a powerful thing.
muscle
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Guys you don't need the net just go to Wal-Mart, or Safeway pharmacy.
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Don't die screwing around with it though.
SG ::)
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It's weird how some things need a script, like pennicilin. And something that can kill you pretty easily, like slin doesn't. ???
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It's weird how some things need a script, like pennicilin. And something that can kill you pretty easily, like slin doesn't. ???
And like tobacco.......... and like alcohol.
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it's fairly easy to aquire these days...However, go into walgreens and try to buy it without a script...
Meaning what? They'll deny you? ???
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Fella's I buy HumulinR over the counter all the time, its about 33.00 us dollars. You can't buy Humalog over the counter you have to get a persciption. I live in Washington state. ;)
Why can you get one and not the other without a prescription? ???
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Don't die screwing around with it though.
^Word.
DIV
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the 'cillins are regulated for two reasons... 1) super-infection- killing off not only the bad organisms, but the good ones too (like the ones that eat off the end of your taste buds... google hairy black tongue)
2) most importantly, organism resistance- it's the same priciple as the tse-tse fly and ddt. we keep using antibiotics for stupid shit, the stupid shit will get tough and evolve. we already have medicine resistant strains and antibiotics have only been around a century.
insulin scares the fuck out of me. I found a dude in my gym passed out in the bathroom from it... bad news man.
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too risky....those that feel sleepy dont realize it's the slin kicking them into hypo and that's lights out for good...
AND if your diet isn't spot on oh you'll get bigger alright....looking like you ate a fridgerator...too many carbs or fats with slin and not being diabetic...stored straight as fat buddy.
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I don't want to talk any body into using insulin, just don't believe all the hype. I have been using insulin for about 3 years with no trouble. I take 10 i.u.'s then drink 50 grams of whey protein with 45 grams of simple carbs.(I use Gatorade) What texasRUSH said is true, if I feel a little sleepy withen about 5 hours of using insulin I will drink a coke or Pepsi, but this rarely happens. Its also true about you have to be VERY careful of what you eat because of fat storage.
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there's a plus side to it's use though..slin is like a super shuttle for nutrients..and if you're looking to gain alot of weight fast...this added to a good cycle will blow you up like a balloon. i think becoming educated on it is key....thats' where alot of the fear of slin use comes into play. just keep juice and gluco tabs on hand...and a glucometer with you to check from time to time...only use it when you work out...not on your off days...why increase your risk?
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Good advice, fellas. Thanks. :)
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i'm studying to be an emt and have been on the fd for awhile...
slin is nothing to take lightly...trust me
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I usually just lurk on this board, but this topic is one I feel I need to add my two cents worth. For those of you who don't know me (many of you do) I've been insulin dependant diabetic going on 20 years now. I am also a medical professional with a background in both human and veterinary medicine (I'm a veterinarian).
I'm on a 'floating scale" where I take a minimum of 2 and up to 5 insulin injections per day of a combination of Regular or regular and NPH insulin (the two baseline injections). As someone who needs this hormone to survive, I'll be the first to admit that this new insulin craze scares the s**t out of me. I've seen diabetics have seizures and end up in a nearly comatose state from taking too much insulin. I've had episodes where my blood sugar has dropped and I've lost all self control (its happened less than a dozen times in the last 19 years, but that doesn't make it any less frightening) I have a friend who threw his mother through a wall when his blood sugar was low. I went after one of my teachers who got in my face and ultimately was suspended when I was a junior in high school.
Now, I've heard non diabetic insulin users scoff and say I don't know what I'm talking about when I say this, the worst thing that will happen is you will become weak and shaky. THEY ARE WRONG. I know of one amateur bodybuilder who ended up in the hospital because of hypoglycemia. I'm going to try to summarize what insulin does, its negative effects, and my thoughts on nondiabetics using this hormone. I'll try to keep things simple, so if something is too "doctorish" please ask and I'll try to rephrase things.
So just what is insulin? Here is a good description taken from another BB board:
insulin is not an androgen, or a steroid for that matter. Insulin is a proteinaceous hormone that is secreted from the pancreas, mostly in response to high sugar levels. It's a polypeptide made from 51 amino acids, separated in an A and B chain by a sulfide bridge (Covalent bond). Its main use is to regulate blood sugar levels. If blood sugar levels are too high insulin is released.
Insulin, in essence facilitates the transport of glucose from the blood stream into the cell. By doing this it maximizes the uptake of nutrients by the cells. This means insulin supports cellular growth, whether it be muscle or fat tissue, especially subcutaneous fat. If you know any insulin dependent diabetics, almost all of them have a "smooth" appearance, even if they are very athletic. This is one of the side effects of taking the hormone they must take to survive. I know some people have suggested I'm a 280+lb guy because of the insulin I take every day. My response is, if I didn't take that insulin, I'd be dead so it doesn't really matter.
So what happens when a diabetic takes insulin? The hormone is slowly absorbed from the subcutaneous space over several hours (regular insulin has an onset time of about half an hour, a peak of about 4 hours, and maximum efficacy of about 8 hours--no obviously this varies somewhat from person to person). The new insulin Humalog has a much faster onset of action and shorter length of duration. Intermediate (NPH) and long acting insulins (Lente) have a much slower onset of action, but continue to work for extended periods of time--up to 24 hours or longer. Blood glucose control for a diabetic is a very careful balance between adequate exogenous insulin (remember their body is no longer producing that hormone), adequate but not excessive carbohydrates, and exercise. The problem with simple sugars, such as candy for a diabetic is the simple fact that the sugar from the food is absorbed faster than the insulin can work. This leads to hyperglycemia and associated complications. In contrast, the diabetics with the "best" blood glucose control also have periods of low blood sugar (less than 60 mg/dl---sorry I'm not converting to mmol/L for the Canadians and Europeans )
So what happens with a non-diabetic who takes insulin? Its essentially the same thing that happens to a diabetic who has an "insulin reaction". Their blood glucose levels will drop. At a certain point, which varies from individual to individual, the body begins to show signs of hypoglycemia. This can vary significantly, I've been in the middle of a surgery with my blood glucose at 35 mg/dl and able to function normally (obviously I scrubbed out and treated myself, but it has happened), yet I know other diabetics who would be unconscious at that level. Generally speaking the more glycogen stores and better shape an individual is in, the better they are able to tolerate low blood glucose. Now, that doesn't change the damage that happens, its just an observation.
As the blood glucose levels drop, the body begins to respond to the lower levels. Adrenalin is secreted. This causes the "shaky, weak feeling" that is commonly described. In addition to adrenalin, glucagon, a hormone secreted from the Alpha cells of the pancreas is secreted. In essence, glucagon has the opposite effect of insulin. It promotes an increase of glucose blood glucose by promoting the breakdown and release of glycogen. Finally, depending on the degree of decrease of blood glucose levels, the body can also have a surge of cortisol released from the adrenal glands. Cortisol also acts to increase blood glucose levels and has an inhibitory effect on insulin. If the exogenous insulin is sufficient that the body is unable to compensate--ie the adrenalin, glucagon, and cortisol is insufficient to raise blood glucose levels, then dire consequences can occur. The goal of the body during hypoglycemia is to maintain the minimum blood glucose level for brain function. If this level is not maintained, loss of brain function, including loss of consciousness, seizures, and even permanent brain damage can occur. I know of one diabetic kid who tried to kill himself by overdosing on insulin. He is permanently brain damaged from this. Considering I've read recommendations of huge doses up to 80 U of regular insulin twice per day for nondiabetics on some bodybuilding boards, I think this may be a very real possibility and am surprised we are not hearing about more idiots ending up in the hospital or dead.
Obviously, this is a pretty significant chain of hormonal events that occurs when the blood sugar levels drop. This chain of events leads to exhaustion, headaches, and loss of athletic ability once the blood glucose levels return to normal and the body tries to replenish lost stores. This time period is also when the "postive" effects occur, in that muscle cells have optimal uptake of nutrients, thus increasing growth potential. I know I cannot have a maximal effort in the squat, bench, or dead lift within about 6 hours of an insulin reaction. My muscles simply do not work at full effectively. There can also be significant loss of fluid from profuse sweating, which means dehydration, which also contributes to decreased athletic performance.
So what about the recommendations of taking dextrose with insulin post workout? Physiologically this doesn't make sense to me. When an individual consumes dextrose the dextrose will be absorbed in a matter of minutes. If an individual consumes the dextrose at the same time as they take the insulin injection, they are going to stimulate an endogenous insulin release. This means their natural occurring insulin levels will be high AND they are going to have circulating exogenous insulin levels. This is going to significantly increase the risk of the development of hypoglycemia.
It also isn't as easy as taking the dextrose a later date because the Regular insulin doesn't peak for a minimum of a couple of hours post injection. If they wait until the insulin peaks, they will have high circulating insulin levels which will simply mean the endogenous excretion will be less.
So how do professional bodybuilders and heavy steroid users get by with taking insulin? First off, anabolic steroids affect how insulin functions in the body. At pharmacological doses, anabolic steroids actually increase insulin's effectiveness and may lead to decreased need of insulin by diabetics. That said, at some of the mega doses advocated by steroid "guru's" now days, there is a negative feedback mechanism (this is especially true with testosterone) which may result in increased insulin requirements. In a nondiabetic, this means they will have higher circulating endogenous insulin levels.
The other big factor is the use of GH. GH will decrease the effectiveness of insulin, and may actually promote the development of diabetes in susceptible individuals. This means decreased insulin effectiveness and possibly lower circulating insulin levels.
The bottom line with this hormone is that there is a very real risk for severe negative effects far outweigh any positive effects. I think there is some value for manipulating endogenous insulin by consuming a simple carbohydrate post workout. This will facilitate glycogen storage and uptake of nutrients by the muscles at a critical time for recovery. I think if you are injecting insulin and are not a diabetic, you are an idiot who is playing with fire.
JK
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Vet, nice post good job explaining things. I agree there is nobody on this board who "needs" to use insulin for BB. But people seem to be fascinated by putting drugs in there bodies at any cost. I myself have been guilty of that.
Lots of people don't believe until it happens to them.
In the work I do that is the message we always (to no avail) try to get across to our people:
This CAN happen to you.
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And like tobacco.......... and like alcohol.
true. I'd love to see tobacco totally banned.
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It's OTC. I worked in a pharmacy so I know. Just tell them you're buying for your uncle :)
Better yet, don't fuck with it. Why would anyone use insulin if they're not a competitive bodybuilder? Silly.
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VERY good post there, Vet. Thanks. :)
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Vet, nice post good job explaining things. I agree there is nobody on this board who "needs" to use insulin for BB. But people seem to be fascinated by putting drugs in there bodies at any cost. I myself have been guilty of that.
Hurt2Luv = Dying2Lift :'(
Why would anyone use insulin if they're not a competitive bodybuilder? Silly.
^Exactly.
Very foolish.
DIV
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In texas they will sell you any slin except humalog (because of it's half-life I imagine)
I did that a couple years ago for several months,,, it seemed to work great...
Only a moron can hurt themselves on this stuff, you eat ten grams of carbs for every unit, and if you start to feel warm or shakey, you eat more... really quite simple... After using it personally, as long as you carry sugar pills with you for emergency, I'd say insulin is less risky than many steroids..
If you are stupid, don't know basic math, or tend to ignore any symptoms of a possible problem,,
don't use insulin...
You can also buy needles and syringes,, although some places will refuse me anyway, I think they know they're for juice...
But I've never had a problem getting them at HEB (although online is even easier for that)
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Why not just eat right and diet down?
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Because it is easier to
be a prick yourself than eat properly I guess... :'(
I don't understand why anyone would even mess with the stuff. If they do it's their own business but I think the risk by far outweigh the benefits.
SG ::)
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Because it is easier to be a prick yourself than eat properly I guess... :'(
I don't understand why anyone would even mess with the stuff. If they do it's their own business but I think the risk by far outweigh the benefits.
SG ::)
You've obviously never used it.
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true. I'd love to see tobacco totally banned.
F!!ck'n A ! ! ME T O O !!!
I saw lung cancer (first hand)
I saw emphysema (sp?)
I saw heart disease
Held diseased tissue in my hands (literally).
Tobacco (use) S C A R E S me . . .
**late father was a DR.
exposed me to this.
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Held diseased tissue in my hands (literally).
Michael, you've never told me this crucial fact.
You've "held" diseased tissue in your hands (literally)?
Please elaborate on how it felt and how it differed from regular healthy tissue.
Don't spare the details, man.
Get dirty! ;D
DIV
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Michael, you've never told me this crucial fact.
You've "held" diseased tissue in your hands (literally)?
Please elaborate on how it felt and how it differed from regular healthy tissue.
Don't spare the details, man.
Get dirty! ;D
DIV
Speaking on tired lungs . . .
I just got back from the largest ashtray in the world, Las Vegas.
My chest IS tight and polluted from 2nd hand smoke.
Will take a week to recover . . .
I spent a lot of (probably too much) time in the lab. Saw and held bodyparts
(with gloves of course) handled many human tissues. I then made slides
and viewed this *extracted tissue* under lens of microscope,
compared it to healty tissues.
V E R Y dynamic and layered learning. :) Thanks DAD! :'(
The most profound was holding a diseased human heart. I took a
toothpick and scraped atherosclerotic plaques (cholesterol) out
of (some veins in) it. It felt like softened wax . . .
I got the point of *that exercise*.
The prospect of COPD - (chronic obstructive pulmonary disease)
due to tobacco use IS something that I know first hand . . .
I sadly (perhaps like many) grew up exposed to second hand smoke
and subsequently had Asthma, bronchial problems and recurrent
bronchitis until the age age of 28 when smoking was not readily
permitted indoors and I no longer had roomates or co-workers
than INFECTED my lungs with their 2nd hand smoke.
The pulmonary system IS an area that I spent a lot of time studying.
due to my unfortunate lifetime predisposition to respiratory ailments.
I cannot stand exposure to tobacco - I suffer profoundly
with lasting effects . . .
Lung cancer that I saw (and held) resembled a fibrous disc of cartilage
surrounded by the dirty yellow mucosal/snotty mess (very gross)
with consistency of yogurt - which I (now) struggle to eat . . .
This cancerous disc was so tough, I could not cut with fresh scalpel
and it grew or invaded various surrounding (dissimilar) tissues,
very odd looking. Disrupting the lung architecture/stucture profoundly . . .
I understand it better.
The other (smoking related) malady - emphysema F!!CKING S C A R Y
this diseased tissue was really fibrotic - stiff, lacking a n y elasticity
critical to lung. The tissue was blackend and grey, rather than the
healthy pink that it should me. My father in law had COPD and my
skin would crawl (nearly got panic attacks) just sitting next to him,
hearing him struggle (with *tightend chest*) to take in a breath of air
It reminded me of athsma attacks as a child . . . BIG c h i l l s . . .
I cannot believe that ANY serious (informed) athlete
would c h o o s e t o smoke cigarettes . . .
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Thanks for the description, Michael.
That was informative.........chil ling.......clinical.
DIV
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My grandfather died of emphysema, he was 68. i will never smoke cigs because of all the memories. once he was deep in it he was on oxygen 24/7 and he had to stop and rest just walking across the living room. very sad.
i was 15 when he passed, i still remember the sounds he made trying to hack up the fluids in his lungs. very gross. he was in and out of ICU for 6 years before he died. they would drain the fluids from his lungs.
one of the last things he told me was if he ever found out i smoked he would break both of my knees. i think he was serious. that is why i hate cigs and in my life i cannot touch them.
8)
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My grandfather died of emphysema, he was 68. i will never smoke cigs because of all the memories. once he was deep in it he was on oxygen 24/7 and he had to stop and rest just walking across the living room. very sad.
i was 15 when he passed, i still remember the sounds he made trying to hack up the fluids in his lungs. very gross. he was in and out of ICU for 6 years before he died. they would drain the fluids from his lungs.
one of the last things he told me was if he ever found out i smoked he would break both of my knees. i think he was serious. that is why i hate cigs and in my life i cannot touch them.
It seems like you always had people looking out for you when you were a kid.
It always comes across in your posts.
You are fortunate.
Try to stay straight, like your loved ones who've passed on would have wanted you to.
DIV
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It seems like you always had people looking out for you when you were a kid.
It always comes across in your posts.
You are fortunate.
Try to stay straight, like your loved ones who've passed on would have wanted you to.
DIV
You are right, i am very fortunate. i have had people helping me in many ways over the years. i have gone off the beaten path a few times but always came back. my parents were very guided people as well, i come from a very homely country family. my father is very successfull and i hope i can follow the same path.
8)
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You are right, i am very fortunate. i have had people helping me in many ways over the years. i have gone off the beaten path a few times but always came back. my parents were very guided people as well, i come from a very homely country family. my father is very successfull and i hope i can follow the same path.
8)
I can tell. There's a calmness and even temperment about you that comes through. You don't get too high or too low. You work though things as they come.
I see all this.
DIV
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I handled many human tissues.
Hey that's the same thing BayGBM said he did last week,,, somebodies copying someone's story...
Oh wait, he said "Manly Human Tissues",,, nevermind carry on.