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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Wiggs on December 21, 2013, 11:46:33 PM

Title: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: Wiggs on December 21, 2013, 11:46:33 PM
When the inevitable happens through the dollar crashes, war or something else and this country ceases to exist the way we know it, how will it be remembered in history. A suggestion on comments, lets use the true history and doings of America and not the make believe shit. Thanks
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: Army of One on December 21, 2013, 11:48:01 PM
America is already known worldwide for its bellys already
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: Wiggs on December 21, 2013, 11:49:00 PM
America is already known worldwide for its bellys already

How about a legit answer funny guy.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: arce1988 on December 21, 2013, 11:51:03 PM
like all of the other empires

rome

greece

egypt

etc
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: BikiniSlut on December 21, 2013, 11:52:12 PM
like all of the other empires

rome

greece

egypt

etc

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.  :D


Thank you for the laugh.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: TrueGrit on December 21, 2013, 11:54:03 PM
America is already known worldwide for its bellys already

 ;D
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: Archer77 on December 21, 2013, 11:54:08 PM
The late 60s early 70s will be seen as the beginning of the end.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: Rami on December 22, 2013, 12:01:21 AM
It's not going away, but is undergoing transformation into something else. A more appropriate question, what do you remember from America?
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: TrueGrit on December 22, 2013, 12:09:21 AM
Burgers, bombs, bellies, blacks.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: The True Adonis on December 22, 2013, 12:14:31 AM
Not a chance it will ever happen.  Hope this helps.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: Archer77 on December 22, 2013, 12:15:22 AM
It's not going away, but is undergoing transformation into something else. A more appropriate question, what do you remember from America?

When something changes radically it ceases to be what it was.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: Tito24 on December 22, 2013, 12:44:57 AM
mac donalds, starbucks ,war ,hypocrisy, guns ok nipple on tv horrible, beeping away highly offending words as fuck, religious white nuts. trash artists as lady gogo kanya west and justin beeper, dead penalty, people working 3 jobs to make ends meet.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: Primemuscle on December 22, 2013, 12:59:11 AM
When the inevitable happens through the dollar crashes, war or something else and this country ceases to exist the way we know it, how will it be remembered in history. A suggestion on comments, lets use the true history and doings of America and not the make believe shit. Thanks

How does it feel to wake up everyday and have nothing but negative thoughts?
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: Conker on December 22, 2013, 01:00:25 AM
warmongeringdemocracy spreading, dirty dealing peacekeepers, tyrants the world's moral compass.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: freespirit on December 22, 2013, 01:11:56 AM
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.  :D


Thank you for the laugh.

Dude, what's so funny about this?   ???
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: Rami on December 22, 2013, 01:12:57 AM
When something changes radically it ceases to be what it was.


So you don't think America has change radically before? Independence? The constitution? The civil war? It was and still is America and is still called America.

Maybe you just wont realize change?

Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: phreak on December 22, 2013, 01:21:29 AM

So you don't think America has change radically before? Independence? The constitution? The civil war? It was and still is America and is still called America.

Maybe you just wont realize change?


You want to focus on the name only? Fine, then the US will probably exist for another few hundred years. Although the larger the country, the faster and more thorough breakups eventually happen. But exist only as other past empires exist now, such as Spain, Portugal, UK, Holland, etc. The home country remains, but the glory days will be long gone.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: phreak on December 22, 2013, 01:29:59 AM
The late 60s early 70s will be seen as the beginning of the end.
Agreed, in fact I think specifically the start of the Vietnam war will be seen as the final straw. The US suddenly went from the invincible global superpower to the country that couldn't beat a bunch of poorly armed peasants, even with science and war crimes. The inferiority complex this generated is patently obvious. Not that it didn't also achieve good (focus on science and economy if you can't beat them militarily), but eventually it will break (or already has broken) the economy by insane defense spending.

In short: nothing new here, it has happened to every empire in the history of mankind. Cue the Americans claiming "not our empire!", just like the others also thought.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: phreak on December 22, 2013, 01:35:08 AM
When the inevitable happens through the dollar crashes, war or something else and this country ceases to exist the way we know it, how will it be remembered in history. A suggestion on comments, lets use the true history and doings of America and not the make believe shit. Thanks
It will be remembered as both good and bad. Brought the world science and economic progress, then in hubris it destroyed itself based on delusions of grandeur. Just like any empire.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: polychronopolous on December 22, 2013, 01:38:08 AM
Worldwide dominance. Gold medals. Best weaponry. Greatest athletes. Greatest technological advancements.

And a massive trail of beta butthurt Non-Americans.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: phreak on December 22, 2013, 01:45:03 AM
Worldwide dominance. Gold medals. Best weaponry. Greatest athletes. Greatest technological advancements.
Are you talking about the Roman empire? The Spanish empire? The British empire? The Chinese empire? The Third Reich?
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: polychronopolous on December 22, 2013, 02:00:20 AM
Are you talking about the Roman empire? The Spanish empire? The British empire? The Chinese empire? The Third Reich?

I'm sure they all had their haters too.

Except for the Chinese. And I'm not so sure about Gold medals or Greatest athletes in their regard.

But yeah the best will always be looked upon with contempt by many.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: Coach is Back! on December 22, 2013, 02:04:16 AM
........we told you so.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: FitnessFrenzy on December 22, 2013, 02:04:30 AM
How does it feel to wake up everyday and have nothing but negative thoughts?


Marcel is likely stuck with a job he hates because of the recession. I think this explains his anger.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: phreak on December 22, 2013, 02:13:12 AM
I'm sure they all had their haters too.

Except for the Chinese. And I'm not so sure about Gold medals or Greatest athletes in their regard.

But yeah the best will always be looked upon with contempt by many.
Being the best does not create contempt. Being arrogant breeds contempt.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: Gonuclear on December 22, 2013, 02:16:31 AM
When the inevitable happens through the dollar crashes, war or something else and this country ceases to exist the way we know it, how will it be remembered in history. A suggestion on comments, lets use the true history and doings of America and not the make believe shit. Thanks


What's wrong with "the make believe shit"?  You mean like doomsday heralded by Comet ISON?  Or do you mean some other make believe shit?
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: syntaxmachine on December 22, 2013, 07:58:53 AM
Agreed, in fact I think specifically the start of the Vietnam war will be seen as the final straw. The US suddenly went from the invincible global superpower to the country that couldn't beat a bunch of poorly armed peasants, even with science and war crimes. The inferiority complex this generated is patently obvious. Not that it didn't also achieve good (focus on science and economy if you can't beat them militarily), but eventually it will break (or already has broken) the economy by insane defense spending.

In short: nothing new here, it has happened to every empire in the history of mankind. Cue the Americans claiming "not our empire!", just like the others also thought.

Here are a couple of problems with your narrrative: defense spending was significantly slashed after the Vietnam War, practically hollowing out the force (so many experts assert, anyway), and (ii) defense isn't and never will be the primary driver of USG spending.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: 240 is Back on December 22, 2013, 07:59:18 AM
we had the 9th best porn
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: The Showstoppa on December 22, 2013, 08:09:58 AM
Being the best does not create contempt. Being arrogant breeds contempt.

 ::)
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: phreak on December 22, 2013, 08:16:09 AM
Here are a couple of problems with your narrrative: defense spending was significantly slashed after the Vietnam War, practically hollowing out the force (so many experts assert, anyway), and (ii) defense isn't and never will be the primary driver of USG spending.
It may have been briefly slashed after the lost Vietnam war. Are you saying the current spending (more than half the total global war spending) is a recent development? And that even assuming just 20%, can the US economy truly carry that?

You are right, war spending is 'only' about 20% of the total budget. Not including downstream effects of wars, so it would be interesting to know the real percentages. Wouldn't be surprised if the effective percentage would be 30 or higher.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: phreak on December 22, 2013, 08:17:20 AM
::)
Are you contemptuous of me because I am great, or because you think I'm arrogant?
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: King Shizzo on December 22, 2013, 08:25:13 AM
like all of the other empires

rome

greece

egypt

etc
America can only hope to leave a legacy half as great as these. Come talk to me if America reaches a 1,000 year anniversary.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: The Showstoppa on December 22, 2013, 08:27:02 AM
Are you contemptuous of me because I am great, or because you think I'm arrogant?

You are neither.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: phreak on December 22, 2013, 08:28:22 AM
You are neither.
Oh shit, touched a redneck nerve!  :o


 ::)
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: Archer77 on December 22, 2013, 08:38:32 AM

So you don't think America has change radically before? Independence? The constitution? The civil war? It was and still is America and is still called America.

Maybe you just wont realize change?



The United States had a pretty consistent narrative until quite recently.  Change is good but sometimes it's not.  You can't argue that when something changed it remains what it was anf therefore can be define as the same.  Italy is not Rome.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: Shockwave on December 22, 2013, 08:53:35 AM
Im gonna say much like Rome... a great idea, gone horribly awry in it's later years.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: Gonuclear on December 22, 2013, 08:55:42 AM
You want to focus on the name only? Fine, then the US will probably exist for another few hundred years. Although the larger the country, the faster and more thorough breakups eventually happen. But exist only as other past empires exist now, such as Spain, Portugal, UK, Holland, etc. The home country remains, but the glory days will be long gone.


Why don't you be "long gone".  Go to another country that is more to your liking.   How about another planet? 
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: syntaxmachine on December 22, 2013, 08:56:00 AM
It may have been briefly slashed after the lost Vietnam war. Are you saying the current spending (more than half the total global war spending) is a recent development? And that even assuming just 20%, can the US economy truly carry that?

You are right, war spending is 'only' about 20% of the total budget. Not including downstream effects of wars, so it would be interesting to know the real percentages. Wouldn't be surprised if the effective percentage would be 30 or higher.

I don't see the relevance of defense spending as a percent of "total global war spending" since it says nothing of the USG's ability to afford such costs -- and I understand your primary assertion to be about affordability. Defense spending as a % of GDP is a much more sensible variable to evaluate.

Defense spending as a % of GDP has remained below 1970 levels ever since the post-Vietnam cuts, and currently stands at about 60% of that value -- a whopping 4% of GDP. Further, it is slated to decrease at least 10% once the draw down from the Bush Administration's wars is complete (defense spending has always declined significantly after a period of conflict is over).

Therefore, it just isn't the case that the US suddenly piled on a bunch of unsustainable defense commitments after the Vietnam War, nor that what it has spent on defense since then is the primary determinant of future budgetary issues: spending on welfare programs has averaged 7% of GDP over the same period and is slated to increase substantially over the next 20+ years.

P.S. I'm sure we both agree that defense spending is too high. But that isn't what is being debated here.

edit: checked the data and tweaked a few values (1970 instead of 1975, 4% instead of 4.4%, 60% instead of 63%)
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: Mr.1derful on December 22, 2013, 09:00:38 AM
When the inevitable happens through the dollar crashes, war or something else and this country ceases to exist the way we know it, how will it be remembered in history. A suggestion on comments, lets use the true history and doings of America and not the make believe shit. Thanks

An arrogant and destructive empire that mistakenly thought its demise would not come, but did just as it has with all of the empires of the past. 
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: The Showstoppa on December 22, 2013, 09:01:07 AM
Oh shit, touched a redneck nerve!  :o


 ::)

How so? I said you are neither great nor arrogant.   :'(


And I am proud of my redneckness. 
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: galeniko on December 22, 2013, 09:11:21 AM
it will be remembered as the continent that sunk bc population was too fat.

i think the 2 atomic boms dropped on the japanese will not be forgotten in histry books either ;D

Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: falco on December 22, 2013, 09:18:24 AM
(http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/306976/114335023/stock-photo-suburban-brick-home-white-picket-fence-american-flag-residential-neighborhood-street-114335023.jpg)
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: falco on December 22, 2013, 09:20:35 AM
(http://turnstylenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Crack-Whore-Escort-2001-2007.jpg)
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: falco on December 22, 2013, 09:26:27 AM
(http://freetheanimal.com/images/2012/10/fat-guy-on-scooter.jpg)
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: polychronopolous on December 22, 2013, 09:29:07 AM
Being the best does not create contempt. Being arrogant breeds contempt.

Have another cup of hot cocoa and relax, pajama boy.  :D
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: galeniko on December 22, 2013, 09:29:57 AM
(http://freetheanimal.com/images/2012/10/fat-guy-on-scooter.jpg)
the guy got huge balls ,or is it quads?
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: falco on December 22, 2013, 09:38:02 AM
(http://nodisinfo.com/Home/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/David-Handschuhphotonoplanesredmarked.png)
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: King Shizzo on December 22, 2013, 09:43:19 AM
(http://nodisinfo.com/Home/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/David-Handschuhphotonoplanesredmarked.png)
History really is amazing. I am grateful that future generations will get the full picture.

They will have pictures, video, and documents. Not the hypothesis that we argue about today.

Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: falco on December 22, 2013, 10:08:32 AM
(http://www.pulitzer.org/imported-data/year/2005/breaking-news-photography/works/warzone%20019.jpg)
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: arce1988 on December 22, 2013, 10:12:45 AM
Quote
An arrogant and destructive empire, that mistakenly thought it's demise would not come, but did... just as it has with all of the empires of the past.

^


this is what I meant
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: falco on December 22, 2013, 10:13:55 AM
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRQLD1uAKgyPPzJbKwyYWJR3mFV5dOwGjph9xqfKFBCk-A9Pgct)
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: falco on December 22, 2013, 10:17:14 AM
(http://www.energytrendsinsider.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/military-fuel-convoy.jpg?00cfb7)
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: falco on December 22, 2013, 10:21:33 AM
(http://www.thedailysheeple.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/foodstamps-banner-620x380.jpg)
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: arce1988 on December 22, 2013, 10:24:46 AM
(http://www.thedailysheeple.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/foodstamps-banner-620x380.jpg)

^

this is from 2013?
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: falco on December 22, 2013, 10:30:22 AM
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRrax_4TWSGI1BgcegKZuJv2QNvtZpLaDFfuZGKd4DB2QopojJ6qQ)
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: falco on December 22, 2013, 10:34:41 AM
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQmUDdAhXfocaJIoNTLn6EgaEvyAYTIAW0i4qOECOXDz5JflAri)
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: phreak on December 22, 2013, 10:51:08 AM

Why don't you be "long gone".  Go to another country that is more to your liking.   How about another planet? 
Don't worry, my taxes are being paid to another government already. Note that I don't refer to it as 'my' homeland.  That sort of jingoism is completely alien to me and other adults. When my country of residence starts to suck, I will move to another.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: phreak on December 22, 2013, 10:53:44 AM
I don't see the relevance of defense spending as a percent of "total global war spending" since it says nothing of the USG's ability to afford such costs -- and I understand your primary assertion to be about affordability. Defense spending as a % of GDP is a much more sensible variable to evaluate.

Defense spending as a % of GDP has remained below 1970 levels ever since the post-Vietnam cuts, and currently stands at about 60% of that value -- a whopping 4% of GDP. Further, it is slated to decrease at least 10% once the draw down from the Bush Administration's wars is complete (defense spending has always declined significantly after a period of conflict is over).

Therefore, it just isn't the case that the US suddenly piled on a bunch of unsustainable defense commitments after the Vietnam War, nor that what it has spent on defense since then is the primary determinant of future budgetary issues: spending on welfare programs has averaged 7% of GDP over the same period and is slated to increase substantially over the next 20+ years.

P.S. I'm sure we both agree that defense spending is too high. But that isn't what is being debated here.

edit: checked the data and tweaked a few values (1970 instead of 1975, 4% instead of 4.4%, 60% instead of 63%)
Thanks for a thoughtful reply. I read quite different numbers earlier today. Will reply tomorrow when I'm not limited to my phone's keyboard.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: phreak on December 22, 2013, 10:55:31 AM
Have another cup of hot cocoa and relax, pajama boy.  :D
Did you hack into my Xbox camera earlier today?  >:(  ;D
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: thebrink on December 22, 2013, 11:17:10 AM
Not a chance it will ever happen.  Hope this helps.

Huh?  ???

How exactly is this current state sustainable?
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: EwaBeachBoy on December 22, 2013, 11:57:09 AM
I love this country but America is on the decline because of Obama and how policies are making us go into greater debt

Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: polychronopolous on December 22, 2013, 12:21:37 PM
Did you hack into my Xbox camera earlier today?  >:(  ;D

Busted!  :o :)
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: phreak on December 23, 2013, 02:58:21 AM
I don't see the relevance of defense spending as a percent of "total global war spending" since it says nothing of the USG's ability to afford such costs -- and I understand your primary assertion to be about affordability. Defense spending as a % of GDP is a much more sensible variable to evaluate.
That could be argued. I was just indicating how absurd it was. Whether or not it is affordable (which was indeed my assertion) is certainly another matter. Given the very unequal distribution of income growth, and thus the tax base, I'd hazard a guess that the base for carrying is getting dangerously small. The elite are paying less and less taxes -- certainly percentage-wise. Probably in absolute terms as well, but I could be wrong there, as their income has skyrocketed so much that it could compensate for their lowered tax rates.

So I see where you are coming from, and to a large extent I also agree that war spending as a percentage of the federal budget is not a very telling metric. It's just that GDP as a metric can also not be used blindly, as income differential has a large impact there. A shrinking middle class plus a cronyish upper class means less money for the lower class. And that is how revolutions start. You don't often see well-employed people giving their life for fairer wealth distribution.

Quote
Defense spending as a % of GDP has remained below 1970 levels ever since the post-Vietnam cuts, and currently stands at about 60% of that value -- a whopping 4% of GDP. Further, it is slated to decrease at least 10% once the draw down from the Bush Administration's wars is complete (defense spending has always declined significantly after a period of conflict is over).
I stand corrected. Would be interesting to see data on downstream effects (what percentage of the economy is directly or indirectly working towards war production, then versus now), as I have no idea about that. Depending on the scale that would potentially make a difference. AFAIK no country has ever been on a permanent wartime production and survived.

Quote
P.S. I'm sure we both agree that defense spending is too high. But that isn't what is being debated here.
True on both counts. Getting back to my other point: perception-wise I maintain that the Vietnam war was a big blow to the US. Internally, because it was the first conflict where the soldiers weren't welcomed back as heroes. Justified or not, and probably only because of the new role of the media. I am not under the delusion that war was ever clean and heroic. And externally, because it also showed the world, both friend and foe, that the US was vulnerable. Understandable, with a military geared towards large-scale conflicts, not guerilla warfare, but still a clear ego-shattering blow.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: Irongrip400 on December 23, 2013, 03:11:10 AM
How is Russia still around?
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: Bevo on December 23, 2013, 03:18:36 AM
How is Russia still around?

Bbing is keeping them afloat
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: CalvinH on December 23, 2013, 05:25:51 AM
Long as we nuke the shit out of the rest of the world before we go I'll be happy :)
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: syntaxmachine on December 23, 2013, 08:01:32 AM
Given the very unequal distribution of income growth, and thus the tax base, I'd hazard a guess that the base for carrying is getting dangerously small. The elite are paying less and less taxes -- certainly percentage-wise. Probably in absolute terms as well, but I could be wrong there, as their income has skyrocketed so much that it could compensate for their lowered tax rates.

The CBO (http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/44604-AverageTaxRates.pdf) says that the top quintile of earners pay about 70% of federal taxes, and the tax code was recently made more progressive (Clinton-era top rate returned + Bush cuts made permanent for everyone but the wealthy + Pease limitations and PEP). Given this, I don't think that the wealthy are exactly shirking their obligations -- even if they are paying less than in the past. And since they are unlikely to revolt, there doesn't seem to be any critical issue here.

It's just that GDP as a metric can also not be used blindly, as income differential has a large impact there. A shrinking middle class plus a cronyish upper class means less money for the lower class. And that is how revolutions start. You don't often see well-employed people giving their life for fairer wealth distribution.

Maybe, but income inequality is a separate issue than the one we got started on, and I am too lazy to start thinking about a new topic.

Getting back to my other point: perception-wise I maintain that the Vietnam war was a big blow to the US. Internally, because it was the first conflict where the soldiers weren't welcomed back as heroes. Justified or not, and probably only because of the new role of the media. I am not under the delusion that war was ever clean and heroic. And externally, because it also showed the world, both friend and foe, that the US was vulnerable. Understandable, with a military geared towards large-scale conflicts, not guerilla warfare, but still a clear ego-shattering blow.

Fair enough.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: funk51 on December 23, 2013, 12:16:14 PM
When the inevitable happens through the dollar crashes, war or something else and this country ceases to exist the way we know it, how will it be remembered in history. A suggestion on comments, lets use the true history and doings of America and not the make believe shit. Thanks
like the old roman empire.
Title: Re: When America goes belly up, how will it be remembered?
Post by: Wolfox on December 23, 2013, 12:18:36 PM
GOAT.   8)

But should we fall were taking the world with us.