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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: BigRo on May 26, 2014, 08:03:49 PM
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Who here who competes does it, has done it and with what results good or bad?
I know it aids fullness however does it create a blurring of separation? If so why does it do that? increased sodium retention?
cheers...
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Who here who competes does it, has done it and with what results good or bad?
I know it aids fullness however does it create a blurring of separation? If so why does it do that? increased sodium retention?
cheers...
best to stay with a small dose.. too easy to spill over, even if you're very experienced with insulin. small = SMALL, like 3-4iu, even if your regular daily doses are 10iu 3-4x/day.
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Who here who competes does it, has done it and with what results good or bad?
I know it aids fullness however does it create a blurring of separation? If so why does it do that? increased sodium retention?
cheers...
I will explain this;
Insulin does not recognize what is in the blood stream, it simply removes all nutrients from the blood stream into the muscle.
So instead of your muscle being gorged with nutrients such as amino acids and glycogen it gets everything that is in the blood at the time, including fats. This is how anabolic it is, very powerful.
So through time (years) and heavy dosing with insulin the muscle builds up visceral fat within the muscle.
Picture a lean steak then picture a steak with streaks of fat within the meat, this is what happens to your muscles over the years with insulin abuse.
So even though your muscle is shredded and you have very low bodyfat, the muscle still has fat (visceral fat) within the meat that does not come off from dieting or being shredded.
The muscle in some extreme cases then loses some shape, some hardness and separation. In some case the fat build up surrounding the muscle like fat on the edges of a steak, when this happens, muscle groups become less separated and your lines become more shallow and not as deep.
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Take into consideration that everybody responds diferently to insulin.
You must do some trial and error, start slow and for brief periods. Try to have a near zero fat diet when on it. Adjust carbs accordingly.
Also as the years gone by your own body will respond different to it.
Finally don't take advices from the internet.
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I will explain this;
Insulin does not recognize what is in the blood stream, it simply removes all nutrients from the blood stream into the muscle.
So instead of your muscle being gorged with nutrients such as amino acids and glycogen it gets everything that is in the blood at the time, including fats. This is how anabolic it is, very powerful.
So through time (years) and heavy dosing with insulin the muscle builds up visceral fat within the muscle.
Picture a lean steak then picture a steak with streaks of fat within the meat, this is what happens to your muscles over the years with insulin abuse.
So even though your muscle is shredded and you have very low bodyfat, the muscle still has fat (visceral fat) within the meat that does not come off from dieting or being shredded.
The muscle in some extreme cases then loses some shape, some hardness and separation. In some case the fat build up surrounding the muscle like fat on the edges of a steak, when this happens, muscle groups become less separated and your lines become more shallow and not as deep.
great post OTH... are you against insulin usage in general / pro BBing?
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I will explain this;
Insulin does not recognize what is in the blood stream, it simply removes all nutrients from the blood stream into the muscle.
So instead of your muscle being gorged with nutrients such as amino acids and glycogen it gets everything that is in the blood at the time, including fats. This is how anabolic it is, very powerful.
So through time (years) and heavy dosing with insulin the muscle builds up visceral fat within the muscle.
Picture a lean steak then picture a steak with streaks of fat within the meat, this is what happens to your muscles over the years with insulin abuse.
So even though your muscle is shredded and you have very low bodyfat, the muscle still has fat (visceral fat) within the meat that does not come off from dieting or being shredded.
The muscle in some extreme cases then loses some shape, some hardness and separation. In some case the fat build up surrounding the muscle like fat on the edges of a steak, when this happens, muscle groups become less separated and your lines become more shallow and not as deep.
Very well put OTH. Great to have you as a mod here.
Ro has great lines and is always shredded. Unfortunately if you want to get to the next level then the next step is insulin.
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great post OTH... are you against insulin usage in general / pro BBing?
No not necessarily but do your research big time, know everything about it and definitely start off extremely conservative.
falco brought up a very important rule and that is stay away from fats while using slin, very important.
Also don't pig out
Also come off of it, so cycle the use, not year round and do not use it during contest prep, at least not the last portion of your prep, say the last 6 weeks.
and just like maxing out your potential naturally before jumping on juice, the same should be said about slin. Take juice for some time, establish a great physique before even considering slin.
Slin should not be a tool to contribute to your physique but rather a tool to get yu to the next level, Big Ro is the perfect example of the right candidate for slin. He knows his shit, he is already jacked, he has potentail to turn pro and he very meticulous in his approach.
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Very well put OTH. Great to have you as a mod here.
Ro has great lines and is always shredded. Unfortunately if you want to get to the next level then the next step is insulin.
Thanks :)
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"Also come off of it, so cycle the use, not year round and do not use it during contest prep, at least not the last portion of your prep, say the last 6 weeks."
I was initially referring to using it during carbing up in the final week before competition, I was considering 3iu novarapid a meal or with at least a few meals. I can take it or leave it though.
More explanation of why fat is to be avoided would be helpful. I can understand from the point of view of the fat slowing the carbs getting utilized during the period the insulin is active in the system, but how can eating fat make you fat when using slin? Is there a logic to this? I don't like the idea of a fat free diet. And dont alot of bodybuilders use slin in off season in conjunction with massive amounts of food?
cheers...
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"Also come off of it, so cycle the use, not year round and do not use it during contest prep, at least not the last portion of your prep, say the last 6 weeks."
I was initially referring to using it during carbing up in the final week before competition, I was considering 3iu novarapid a meal or with at least a few meals. I can take it or leave it though.
More explanation of why fat is to be avoided would be helpful. I can understand from the point of view of the fat slowing the carbs getting utilized during the period the insulin is active in the system, but how can eating fat make you fat when using slin? Is there a logic to this? I don't like the idea of a fat free diet. And dont alot of bodybuilders use slin in off season in conjunction with massive amounts of food?
cheers...
i think oth means it wont make you fat,overtime the fat buildup INSIDE and AROUND the muscle will blurs the separation..
sure on calipers you're 4% but when you look at the mirror yoour muscle are smooth with less separation to it
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"Also come off of it, so cycle the use, not year round and do not use it during contest prep, at least not the last portion of your prep, say the last 6 weeks."
I was initially referring to using it during carbing up in the final week before competition, I was considering 3iu novarapid a meal or with at least a few meals. I can take it or leave it though.
More explanation of why fat is to be avoided would be helpful. I can understand from the point of view of the fat slowing the carbs getting utilized during the period the insulin is active in the system, but how can eating fat make you fat when using slin? Is there a logic to this? I don't like the idea of a fat free diet. And dont alot of bodybuilders use slin in off season in conjunction with massive amounts of food?
cheers...
From my understanding, Slin promotes Fat storage so that the carbs in your bloodstream are prioritized for oxidation which serves the purpose of lowering blood sugar to normal levels.
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personally, unless you're running gh i wouldn't bother with it... and if you dieting for a show, I'd only use insulin to correct a stupid high blood sugar level.
now, I'd had clients avoid fats before and after insulin doses.. whereas I on the other had, ate creamy pastas and drank whole milk and didn't get fat (sub-q fat.. intra-muscular may be another story.. as since stopping insulin my 5% now seems much grainier than 5% 10yrs ago.
there's different theory's though.
as you have John Meadows advocating combining fats with carbs to slow the absorption of the carb... and i can't imagine him NOT having his guys using insulin, however i dont' know for sure.
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i think oth means it wont make you fat,overtime the fat buildup INSIDE and AROUND the muscle will blurs the separation..
sure on calipers you're 4% but when you look at the mirror yoour muscle are smooth with less separation to it
precisely^^ over time and abuse the fat within the muscle will be apparent.
Visceral fat within the muscle can not be dieted, once its there it is more likely there for good.
A high fat diet will fast forward this process, hence stay away from fats
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"Also come off of it, so cycle the use, not year round and do not use it during contest prep, at least not the last portion of your prep, say the last 6 weeks."
I was initially referring to using it during carbing up in the final week before competition, I was considering 3iu novarapid a meal or with at least a few meals. I can take it or leave it though.
More explanation of why fat is to be avoided would be helpful. I can understand from the point of view of the fat slowing the carbs getting utilized during the period the insulin is active in the system, but how can eating fat make you fat when using slin? Is there a logic to this? I don't like the idea of a fat free diet. And dont alot of bodybuilders use slin in off season in conjunction with massive amounts of food?
cheers...
Eating fats on slin will not necessarily give you more bodyfat, however the fats will be flushed straight into the muscle cells, over time this will lead to a build up of visceral fat within the muscle, like that steak at the grocery store with a lot of fat streaks running through it.
As for the off season bodybuilder who pigs out on slin, there bellies are enormous usually when they are shredded due to the build up of fat inside the muscles of their abs, ruining their physique.
Carbing up on slin is very common now come contest load, usually 2-4 iu per meal conservatively, some go way higher but not wise and very dangerous, you are already running on fumes, risky IMO. Does fill you out though and also allows you to eat more.
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precisely^^ over time and abuse the fat within the muscle will be apparent.
Visceral fat within the muscle can not be dieted, once its there it is more likely there for good.
A high fat diet will fast forward this process, hence stay away from fats
I dunno.. when I'm heavier, in the 240's my waist is about 35/36 (well, pant size anyways), at my fattest when focusing on powerlifting for about 4yrs I went up to a 41 at 15-17% bf, then went from 15% down to 8% and waist dropped to 33, then down to 6 and 5 and below 5% waist was down to 31in.. smallest it'd been since I was in high school (also lowest bw I'd been since high school), this was about 6-7yrs since last using insulin.. and I was a fairly heavy user for many years straight.
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I dunno.. when I'm heavier, in the 240's my waist is about 35/36 (well, pant size anyways), at my fattest when focusing on powerlifting for about 4yrs I went up to a 41 at 15-17% bf, then went from 15% down to 8% and waist dropped to 33, then down to 6 and 5 and below 5% waist was down to 31in.. smallest it'd been since I was in high school (also lowest bw I'd been since high school), this was about 6-7yrs since last using insulin.. and I was a fairly heavy user for many years straight.
Ya in your case you managed to reverse the effects, not unheard of but others are usually not so lucky. 7 years is a long time
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Eating fats on slin will not necessarily give you more bodyfat, however the fats will be flushed straight into the muscle cells, over time this will lead to a build up of visceral fat within the muscle, like that steak at the grocery store with a lot of fat streaks running through it.
As for the off season bodybuilder who pigs out on slin, there bellies are enormous usually when they are shredded due to the build up of fat inside the muscles of their abs, ruining their physique.
Carbing up on slin is very common now come contest load, usually 2-4 iu per meal conservatively, some go way higher but not wise and very dangerous, you are already running on fumes, risky IMO. Does fill you out though and also allows you to eat more.
Why does the midsection in particular always suffer so much when It comes to slin and hgh? does the fact they subq it into their belly fat nonstop have anything to do with it?
At the pro level do you basically just take the plunge and see how long you can go before you're physique is destroyed?
I am not well versed in insulin and hgh and wouldnt want to even consider it unless I was maxed out on the gear.
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Why does the midsection in particular always suffer so much when It comes to slin and hgh? does the fact they subq it into their belly fat nonstop have anything to do with it?
At the pro level do you basically just take the plunge and see how long you can go before you're physique is destroyed?
I am not well versed in insulin and hgh and wouldnt want to even consider it unless I was maxed out on the gear.
The actual abs get a lot bigger in most cases but the main culprit for the circumference of the midsection is the visceral fat build up around the organs from slin and the muscle growth on the organs from gh, so the 2 combined will enlarge the organs behind the abdomen wall making the huge guts
As for ruining your physique over the course of a pro career? well eating clean year round is the best way to prolong the effects of slin use but eventually it catches up
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Who here who competes does it, has done it and with what results good or bad?
I know it aids fullness however does it create a blurring of separation? If so why does it do that? increased sodium retention?
cheers...
after you explained yourself, your post makes sense now, I did not interpret it properly.
The answer is no it does not create a blurring separation as a carb load 1 time use for contest prep.
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you can have a distended gut from just steroids alone.. or steroids and gh alone.
training 'style' plays a part as well.
if you squat and dl (and bench) like a powerlifter, and wear a belt, that belt isn't there to help you 'suck in you gut' or keep your waist tight, it's there so you can PUSH OUT against that belt with your midsection and stabilize your torso.. and your midsection is muscle.. abs, obliques, ect... stimulate those muscles and they'll grow just like your biceps or lats (or anything else).
I believe my waist shrinking came in large part from stopping the powerlifting-style training.. haven't worn a belt since 2010.
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tren is proven to increase both IGF and sensitivity to IGF.
a huge amount of IGF receptors is in your intestines.
im not saying tren causes gut growth or a "roid gut" (i do agree with the hypothesis that its mostly insulin related and NOT caused by organ growth or whatever), but your intestines are pretty much a huge muscle and with loads of food processing through it they of course grow aswell.
i DO NOT think that this is visible to the eye from outside though.
tren can partially bloat your midsection though.
it has been proven to lower T3.
low t3 causes indigestion and slows stomach emptying.
EVERY SINGLE TIME ive ran tren without t3 supplementation i was bloated TO HELL after even tiny meals or just drinking a good amount of water. seriously my belly was sticking out like i was 9 months pregnant. i could always tell if my tren was legit because of this because it happened within a few days of starting tren and went away within a few days of stopping tren.
it all stopped when i started using t3 with tren though. i always run some t3 now because of the benefits it gives regarding mood, energy levels, digestion and bodyfat control.
so in people sensitive to T3 changes tren can temporarily cause a "roid gut" look.
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No sorry bro a bloat look in the gut from tren isn't the same as the pregnant belly look.
sorry bro, if you never had it dont talk about it. it is.
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Jizmo how much t3 do you use with tren and how do you dose it? Year round? 25mcg?
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depends on whether im cutting or bulking... lately ive stopped using tren for bulking, so when cutting ill run t3 anywhere between 100-150mcg... depends on some factors how much i can tolerate (weather, social events etc)... at 150mcg i sweat PROFUSELY. always. everywhere.
and yeah it makes you flat as sh*t and its impossible to fill out on that dose, no matter how many carbs you eat. i wake up flat after refeed days with 1000g carbs. but its just temporary so i dont care, drop the dose and you fill out again.
the fat and weight loss is insane at that dosage. strength loss aswell, lol. and i do think you lose some muscle, but at 150mcg i can drop a pound a day and it doesnt stop. so im okay with losing some muscle with that, the rate of fat loss is crazy.
when bulking i run about 50-60mcgs... i do think it helps with protein synthesis and can aid in putting on muscle if nutrition is on point. you have to increase carbs though.
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how long each year do you take off from T3 or do you? Do you think there is negative effects on thyroid from long term use? I have heard it can bounce back quite quickly.
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there are numerous studies on people being on t3 for years at a high dose and once they come off thyroid recovers just fine within a few weeks (doesnt even take longer than after a short cycle).
ive only been on t3 for a couple months now but ill most likely stay on forever (you can just buy 10g raw powder and it'll last until you die anyways)...
honestly i dont even primarily do it for bodybuilding purposes... i just like how the stuff makes me feel. i need less sleep (wake up fully refreshed after 8 hours at most), got more energy, can artificially increase metabolism for a short period (for example when pigging out on a birthday with the family or whatever). i dont see any downsides.
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there are numerous studies on people being on t3 for years at a high dose and once they come off thyroid recovers just fine within a few weeks (doesnt even take longer than after a short cycle).
ive only been on t3 for a couple months now but ill most likely stay on forever (you can just buy 10g raw powder and it'll last until you die anyways)...
honestly i dont even primarily do it for bodybuilding purposes... i just like how the stuff makes me feel. i need less sleep (wake up fully refreshed after 8 hours at most), got more energy, can artificially increase metabolism for a short period (for example when pigging out on a birthday with the family or whatever). i dont see any downsides.
Very interesting. Do you run any HGH with it, whether bulking or cutting? Do you think T3 hinders fat gains when using it on bulk cycles?
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Very interesting. Do you run any HGH with it, whether bulking or cutting? Do you think T3 hinders fat gains when using it on bulk cycles?
no, i dont run hgh. i think with hgh you better use t4, but im not very well versed in terms of hgh use.
i dont think T3 hinders fat gains, but it increases metabolism. you do have to eat more calories (carbs) depending on dosage from my experience. i also think it aids protein metabolism.
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da faq, 150mcg? duude... i once tried 60-80mcg and it wasted my muscle in no time, that was the only time i tried t3 and it was while on superdrol. Been scared to use it ever since...
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Ya in your case you managed to reverse the effects, not unheard of but others are usually not so lucky. 7 years is a long time
It took me almost a year to undo the effects from 3 months of stupidity
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da faq, 150mcg? duude... i once tried 60-80mcg and it wasted my muscle in no time, that was the only time i tried t3 and it was while on superdrol. Been scared to use it ever since...
60-80mcg wasted your muscle in no time ? i run 60mcg while bulking and it doesnt waste a gram of muscle unless your diet is shit.
it wasted your glycogen and water bigtime though.
you get flat as sh*t and think youve lost a huge amount of muscle, when actually you didnt have NEARLY as much muscle as you thought to begin with. its all glycogen and water. 1-2 weeks after dropping t3 and upping carbs you look just as full as before but way better because you lost a ton of bodyfat...
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It took me almost a year to undo the effects from 3 months of stupidity
please tell what happened?
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please tell what happened?
I was following a ketogenic diet and then carbing up at the weekend. Initially I was using 2-3ui to help the carb up but after posting about it on here I was encouraged by a few people to up it to as much as 30ui as I was eating about a kilo of carbs. I stayed lean but my waist was 34" lol. I did 4 weeks at 1000kcal a day protein only and that helped a lot. Then I followed a lower fat slightly more carb paleo diet for about 3 months then switched back to the ketogenic diet. Waist hit 29" a few weeks ago!
Never again lol
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I was following a ketogenic diet and then carbing up at the weekend. Initially I was using 2-3ui to help the carb up but after posting about it on here I was encouraged by a few people to up it to as much as 30ui as I was eating about a kilo of carbs. I stayed lean but my waist was 34" lol. I did 4 weeks at 1000kcal a day protein only and that helped a lot. Then I followed a lower fat slightly more carb paleo diet for about 3 months then switched back to the ketogenic diet. Waist hit 29" a few weeks ago!
Never again lol
30iu? :o
what type of slin?
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75mcg of T3 destroyed me. Was taking 50mcg just fine, 75mcg just fine (for a few days) and then one day I had a super shitty workout and almost looked smaller by the time I was finished.
Dropped down to 50mcg and still couldn't fill out. Tapered down to 25mcg and was still flat, but then I filled out after about a week. Might have just been some strong ass T3, but I tried it again and around 50mcg is where I hit the ceiling.
Getting more on topic, if I were to run insulin I'd take 25mcg of T3 and coast on that for a bit. Take whatever anabolics to keep protein synthesis cranked, get good sleeps and just train and eat smart. I don't think shorter bouts of insulin are that detrimental. I think it comes from the off season neglect. Just bulking up like that with no slin is very unhealthy for the heart and for the physique. I think slow and steady is the only safe way. You can throw caution to the wind, but it's your body and you should take it seriously. You have a great physique so don't let drugs like insulin ruin your solid work ethic. You didn't build that foundation from cutting corners or slacking, that's for sure. A little slin can be a great tool in your arsenal.
My experience is mainly limited to playing around with it and using a blood sugar monitor. I tried pre and post workout doses at higher levels but I wasn't taking enough anabolics or using insulin aggressively enough to see massive gains. I can however see how potent of a hormone this is. I used humalog, and if you use it, watch for the second peak. It doesn't just dump you sugar once, it can come back with a vengeance. Also, don't panic. Diabetics take a couple 5g glucose tabs and wait it out. So if you feel hypo, just take in some carbs, sit down, let your adrenals go crazy for a bit and settle down. Best to tell the wifey or GF if you're taking a high dose too, just to keep an eye out. I took beta blockers and went into a severe hypoglycemic attack and almost fainted because the beta blockers masked the symptoms of hypoglycemia. It's weird shit like that you never expect.
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30iu? :o
what type of slin?
Novorapid
I posted a thread about it here, I was using 5ui max once a week. But I was eating upwards of 900g of carbs on these days as my goal was to eat a deficit over the course of the week ketogenically then eat loads of carbs in 3 or 4 hours once a week. It worked incredibly well I should add.
I asked if I should increase the insulin or what because most places recommended 10g/ui and it seemed like a lot. A certain member here said "sure, 30ui should be fine" lol. After my 8th time doing this I noticed that it really wasn't working out well and decreased the dose then eventually stopped insulin altogether, switched to a 800-1000kcal a day protein fast and dieted right down to nuke as much fat off as possible and get my sensitivity to insulin back to normal