Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: cephissus on June 25, 2014, 09:59:51 PM
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Here's the question:
Is strenuous weight lifting 4-6 days a week, 45 minutes to an hour and a half per day for years on end, i.e. what the vast majority of "bodybuilders" do, "healthy"?
Here's what got me thinking about this: I wondered to myself... do I know old people, who have been doing this for 2-3+ decades naturally, who still lift with any degree of intensity, and aren't plagued by joint pain, tears, disk problems, etc.?
I know plenty of people who maintain respectable physiques well into their later years, but I struggle to think of any who haven't been on hormones for years. The next thing I think, then: do the steroids prevent pain and injuries which would be unavoidable if the "athlete" pursued his weightlifting with any degree of intensity? Do they allow people to prolong their addiction to an inherently self-destructive activity?
The anabolic effects of steroids are well known and oft-discussed, but is longevity another of their benefits? An undervalued and largely far less often mentioned benefit?
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Here's the question:
Is strenuous weight lifting 4-6 days a week, 45 minutes to an hour and a half per day for years on end, i.e. what the vast majority of "bodybuilders" do, "healthy"?
Here's what got me thinking about this: I wondered to myself... do I know old people, who have been doing this for 2-3+ decades naturally, who still lift with any degree of intensity, and aren't plagued by joint pain, tears, disk problems, etc.?
I know plenty of people who maintain respectable physiques well into their later years, but I struggle to think of any who haven't been on hormones for years. The next thing I think, then: do the steroids prevent pain and injuries which would be unavoidable if the "athlete" pursued his weightlifting with any degree of intensity? Do they allow people to prolong their addiction to an inherently self-destructive activity?
Steroids anabolic effects are well known and oft-discussed, but is longevity another of their benefits? An undervalued and largely far less often mentioned benefit?
I suspect not. Your body was not meant for that type of lifting. From an evolutionary perspective, it was meant to carry rocks and buckets of water. From a Johnny Falcon perspective, its paint houses, mow lawns and work on electricity.
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With steroids you will trade years at the end of your life for years being swole in your 50s, 60s and if you are very lucky 70s. If you have bad genetics or if you are an AAS abuser prepare to possibly die much younger.
Jack LaLanne kept a good physique well into his 90s. Natural? Hard to know, but if he did use it was in very moderate amounts.
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Progressive resistance exercise every other day. This allows joints to recover. On the days with no weights, do cardio instead.
Also good to throw in one day a week with no exercise at all.
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there was a pic of a dude who started when he was 44 yrs old, and now he is 72ish, and he looks young as hell. So, it could be the genes, but it does help.
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I'd argue that high volume would probably be good for you. Heavy? Very heavy? Maybe it would be "good" for you...
But if the best workout your heart ever gets is watching the commercials for Olive Garden, I'd say that any vigorous exercise will be better than being sedentary and stuffed with breadsticks.
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Overthinking things. Lift weights, getbig arms, get the girls. Repeat.
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73 years old now. Olympic champion Zygmunt Smalcerz.
(http://www.polska-sztanga.pl/modules/coppermine/albums/80r-wspomnienia/smalcerz/zygmunt-smalcerz.jpg)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2d2s81.jpg)
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You need to train the most important muscle in your body (heart). Weight training does not do that.
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Joints have a finite life span, grinding them down on a regular basis likely doesn't extend the mileage you'll get from your cartilage.
Once things start to break down and get out of alignment it doesn't take much to push them over the edge
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You need to train the most important muscle in your body (heart). Weight training does not do that.
bollocks
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bollocks
Lol exactly. Weight training has a very positive contribution to your cardiovascular system.
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You need to train the most important muscle in your body (heart). Weight training does not do that.
Hello! Anybody home???
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You need to train the most important muscle in your body (heart). Weight training does not do that.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=461365.0;attach=507608;image)
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I think lifting with moderate weights with good form is safe for a lifetime.
Injuries usually occur when the weights get heavy and form goes out the window.
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I'd argue that high volume would probably be good for you. Heavy? Very heavy? Maybe it would be "good" for you...
But if the best workout your heart ever gets is watching the commercials for Olive Garden, I'd say that any vigorous exercise will be better than being sedentary and stuffed with breadsticks.
Aren't you in time out junior?
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No it's not you will die out early as many have here.
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=461365.0;attach=507608;image)
whos this? ???
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whos this? ???
Methbod101
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im 57, have been lifting cents i was 18. still stong as a ox, still hitting the weights 5 days a week, lots of cardio. they will bury me with a fucking dumbell in my cold hands.
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It does seem that so many long time lifters have joint issues. Every 400lb bencher I knew in my 20 and 30's can't bench anything in their 50's because of joint issues. It seems the moderate weight volume guys have longevity and the power bodybuilders seem to have a lot of issues as they age. Of course there are exceptions.
I wish there was a study of long time recreational bodybuilders regarding joint problems. Empirically I can't think of anyone I know who has been lifting for decades that escapes without problems. How many pro's have had hip replacements before 60? I would mention names but I don't want to make any mistakes about it. How many shoulder, knee and elbow operations have you heard about with pro's and friends? Is it good for a 55 year old to be grinding heavy squats on his hip joint? I still squat but it's moderate weights.
I know my right shoulder is shot. It wasn't even from a single episode of lifting. It just started hurting and felt weak. It never goes away. My ortho guy wants to operate saying it's a slap tear but I don't want to deal with the long recovery. I just use lighter weights and deal with the pain for now.
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Almost 50, lifting 30+ years, no aches or pains, look 20 years younger, and in better shape than 99.9999% of the population regardless of age. Lifetime natty though, which means no running my body in overdrive.
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im 57, have been lifting cents i was 18. still stong as a ox, still hitting the weights 5 days a week, lots of cardio. they will bury me with a fucking dumbell in my cold hands.
Awesome seeing guys my dad's age posting here. I doubt he would get our humour or the appeal. Hope I'm still posting here at 57 8)
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You need to train the most important muscle in your body (heart). Weight training does not do that.
I believe weight training when done right is beneficial for heart health.
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Almost 50, lifting 30+ years, no aches or pains, look 20 years younger, and in better shape than 99.9999% of the population regardless of age. Lifetime natty though, which means no running my body in overdrive.
Man, how did you pull that off? 46, and all my gym buddies are broken down everywhere.
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Man, how did you pull that off? 46, and all my gym buddies are broken down everywhere.
Natty.
At least, that's my reasoning. ;)
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Natty
Same here, actually two of us were, but we're all equally trashed now. Joints, tendons, back issues, etc. I'm blaming low rep sets and less-than-perfect form, but who knows.
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Overthinking things. Lift weights, getbig arms, get the girls. Repeat.
haha THIS^^^^^
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Is strenuous weight lifting 4-6 days a week healthy?
yes
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You need to train the most important muscle in your body (heart). Weight training does not do that.
That is a patent lie.
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Almost 50, lifting 30+ years, no aches or pains, look 20 years younger, and in better shape than 99.9999% of the population regardless of age. Lifetime natty though, which means no running my body in overdrive.
Any recent pics? I seem to recall you having a pretty good physique.
Have you eased off at all over the years, in terms of intensity?
73 years old now. Olympic champion Zygmunt Smalcerz.
(http://www.polska-sztanga.pl/modules/coppermine/albums/80r-wspomnienia/smalcerz/zygmunt-smalcerz.jpg)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2d2s81.jpg)
looks flexible enough, but its hard to tell what kind of shape he's in from these vids (only skimmed the long one, though). natural?
It does seem that so many long time lifters have joint issues. Every 400lb bencher I knew in my 20 and 30's can't bench anything in their 50's because of joint issues. It seems the moderate weight volume guys have longevity and the power bodybuilders seem to have a lot of issues as they age. Of course there are exceptions.
I wish there was a study of long time recreational bodybuilders regarding joint problems. Empirically I can't think of anyone I know who has been lifting for decades that escapes without problems. How many pro's have had hip replacements before 60? I would mention names but I don't want to make any mistakes about it. How many shoulder, knee and elbow operations have you heard about with pro's and friends? Is it good for a 55 year old to be grinding heavy squats on his hip joint? I still squat but it's moderate weights.
I know my right shoulder is shot. It wasn't even from a single episode of lifting. It just started hurting and felt weak. It never goes away. My ortho guy wants to operate saying it's a slap tear but I don't want to deal with the long recovery. I just use lighter weights and deal with the pain for now.
Very interesting post. Especially the bold part -- this is how most of my joints feel these days. Most pronounced with my shoulders, though. Over a period of time my shoulder would just hurt more and more... nothing acute, just a general level of pain that i "managed". Then one day it was just weak, and never recovered.
Same with my back, knees, etc. Frightening when I think about how much weight I used to use, how much volume, etc. in comparison to what I work with now. Luckily, the physique isn't gone yet...
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I read an article in M&F (or Flex) where Frank Zane said his biggest regret was lifting heavy for all those years.
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In my biased opinion...yes.
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I think some people's bodies will wear out more quickly given the stresses you put it under. a lot of variables can contribute to this.
using loads your body isn't designed for or capable of handling.
using anabolics that increases your ability of the muscle to perform at a higher level of functioning but not developing those same tolerances for your ligaments connective tissue or joints.
genetic predisposition to aging. some people just seem to age and bodies wear out more rapidly than others.
I don't think there's a one size fits all blanket answer. some people's bodies will wear out not matter what they do, no matter how wisely they trained early on, and some people's bodies will not wear out despite what they've done or how they've trained early on.
for me longevity for has meant low dose anabolics year round to aid in my repair and growth and not training so heavily my joints ligaments or connective tissue becomes inflamed or injured.
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No, after 40 years of training it's done no good at all.
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Here's the question:
Is strenuous weight lifting 4-6 days a week, 45 minutes to an hour and a half per day for years on end, i.e. what the vast majority of "bodybuilders" do, "healthy"?
Here's what got me thinking about this: I wondered to myself... do I know old people, who have been doing this for 2-3+ decades naturally, who still lift with any degree of intensity, and aren't plagued by joint pain, tears, disk problems, etc.?
I know plenty of people who maintain respectable physiques well into their later years, but I struggle to think of any who haven't been on hormones for years. The next thing I think, then: do the steroids prevent pain and injuries which would be unavoidable if the "athlete" pursued his weightlifting with any degree of intensity? Do they allow people to prolong their addiction to an inherently self-destructive activity?
The anabolic effects of steroids are well known and oft-discussed, but is longevity another of their benefits? An undervalued and largely far less often mentioned benefit?
I don't lift anymore, but when I was in my 20's-30's I hit the weights three times a week religiously for several hours. But I lifted too heavy and did the wrong things. Like high rep "breathing squats" advocated in the 1970's by good old Peary Rader, publisher of Iron Man. Destroyed my knees. Heavy lateral raises and military presses did a number on my shoulders, and Zottman curls ruined my elbows. High reps, going heavy and bad form probably contributed. I never took anything and had a pretty good build. You can wear out your joints without using drugs.
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I don't lift anymore, but when I was in my 20's-30's I hit the weights three times a week religiously for several hours. But I lifted too heavy and did the wrong things. Like high rep "breathing squats" advocated in the 1970's by good old Peary Rader, publisher of Iron Man. Destroyed my knees. Heavy lateral raises and military presses did a number on my shoulders, and Zottman curls ruined my elbows. High reps, going heavy and bad form probably contributed. I never took anything and had a pretty good build. You can wear out your joints without using drugs.
I'll vouch.
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I don't lift anymore, but when I was in my 20's-30's I hit the weights three times a week religiously for several hours. But I lifted too heavy and did the wrong things. Like high rep "breathing squats" advocated in the 1970's by good old Peary Rader, publisher of Iron Man. Destroyed my knees. Heavy lateral raises and military presses did a number on my shoulders, and Zottman curls ruined my elbows. High reps, going heavy and bad form probably contributed. I never took anything and had a pretty good build. You can wear out your joints without using drugs.
ouch... the ugly side of lifting.
were you forced to stop because of pain, or did you quit for other reasons? what age did you start/stop lifting?
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ouch... the ugly side of lifting.
were you forced to stop because of pain, or did you quit for other reasons? what age did you start/stop lifting?
I started lifting when I was 22 and stopped entirely (due to increasing pain) when I was 42. My doc told me the cartilage in my knees was gone. The odd thing was I never had pain while doing the squats. It came later. I just stopped doing the breathing squats because I got tired of them. By the time the pain really became noticeable, the damage had been done.
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I started lifting when I was 22 and stopped entirely (due to increasing pain) when I was 42. My doc told me the cartilage in my knees was gone. The odd thing was I never had pain while doing the squats. It came later. I just stopped doing the breathing squats because I got tired of them. By the time the pain really became noticeable, the damage had been done.
Truth is if you keep your supporting muscles/ligaments strong, they do their job and relieve stress on your joints. One of the therapies I did for a torn meniscus was to strengthen the muscles which support the knee. BTW, I did not tear my meniscus lifting weights. I suffered a sports related injury to my knee when I was teenager. It held until I was in my late 60's before I finally had surgery to repair it.
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You need to train the most important muscle in your body (heart). Weight training does not do that.
::) I'd love to put a gun to the head of people like you and force you to do heavy high rep bb squats.
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Man, how did you pull that off? 46, and all my gym buddies are broken down everywhere.
Never train with pain. Work around pain- find exercises that doesn't hurt. Change technique, angles, train with higher reps etc. Works for me.
NN
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no
X2.
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A few years ago, about 31 YO, i stopped lifting too heavy as i could feel it in my joints at times, esp after a few weeks of heavy lifting.
Now i just pick a lighter weight, do it slower and go to failure. Have not had one even minor joint or muscle problem since, and i look better and fuller. You do not need to train that heavy and after many years you can get as much out of almost any weight.
...and i fucked my elbows up at 17 lifting heavy so you can fuck things up at any age. It took a few years of lighter lifting to get them right but i have no problems with anything anymore.
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Never train with pain. Work around pain- find exercises that doesn't hurt. Change technique, angles, train with higher reps etc. Works for me.
NN
Wish I'd thought of this years ago.
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IMO "everything in moderation, including moderation"...or however that saying goes.
There are very few people that train balls to the wall consistently. You get burned out.
Or you grow up hit late 20s, 30s, 40s ...etc and different priorities take over vs intense training like family, career and relationships.
I remember from 15 through early 20s I'd train harder than most, part of it was because I trained with friends that had similar schedules. The competitive nature comes out in a group where one wants to out do the other guy.
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No, after 40 years of training it's done no good at all.
???
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54 years of training from 1 to 2 and a half hours a day 3-5 days a week. they're going to have to pry that barbell [or maybe dumbell] out of my dead hands someday. ;D :o 8)
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Any recent pics? I seem to recall you having a pretty good physique.
Have you eased off at all over the years, in terms of intensity?
looks flexible enough, but its hard to tell what kind of shape he's in from these vids (only skimmed the long one, though). natural?
Very interesting post. Especially the bold part -- this is how most of my joints feel these days. Most pronounced with my shoulders, though. Over a period of time my shoulder would just hurt more and more... nothing acute, just a general level of pain that i "managed". Then one day it was just weak, and never recovered.
Same with my back, knees, etc. Frightening when I think about how much weight I used to use, how much volume, etc. in comparison to what I work with now. Luckily, the physique isn't gone yet...
Yeah I believe he was natural and rejected taking steroids. He implied that in his interview with Klokov (the one in Russian) by saying that after he had won gold, next olympics everyone took it to another level and he couldn't keep up anymore so he decided to retire.
He is in great shape. He is USA weightlifting head coach right now. He travels from Poland to USA back and forth on regular basis. This kind of flight takes its toll, believe me, I've been there. And I believe he does goes back home multiple times per year. On top of that his work requires moving around a lot - when he does warmups/coaches the youth he performs every exercise they do. He is still in great mental shape, surprising for male of his age. He speaks fluent English and Russian.
And if you ever snatched any kind of weight then you would know how unreal his flexibility must be to be able to snatch with impeccable form. As you prolly figured out by now he is one of my greatest inspirations. Amazing guy.
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I think moderate resistance training in machines is good for you in the long run.
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lifting light/moderate weights 4 to 6 hours a week, eating clean diet , small amounts of food and staying lean is obviously the best path to last longer.
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I think moderate resistance training in machines is good for you in the long run.
What exactly is behind the reasoning that only machines would be good?
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What exactly is behind the reasoning that only machines would be good?
well they re easier on the skeletton than free weights that's for sure.
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Fixed motion fitness machines lack adjustability. Very often people are lifting in motions that are biomechanically far from optimal, simply because the machines are not adjusted properly or they are poorly designed.
Ofcourse people can lift poorly with free weights as well, but you are not as limited as when using machines.
I would like to see proof instead of gut feelings that machine training is better for our bodies than free weight lifting.
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Almost 50, lifting 30+ years, no aches or pains, look 20 years younger, and in better shape than 99.9999% of the population regardless of age. Lifetime natty though, which means no running my body in overdrive.
You're 49 but look 29? You don't have one of those fun house mirrors in your house? Just busting balls. In better shape than just about everyone regardless of age? You are either delusional or just have amazing conditioning.
I know I'm in good shape for my age but hell I know what I was capable of in my youth with objective numbers. I could string together 5 something minute miles in my youth. Today if I train like a mad man I can only do 7 something minute miles when I run. My physique is just about gone but again for my age I'm way ahead of the curve. My pressing is shot due to shoulder and elbow issues but I still hit hard in the weight room.
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classic...
slowing down now...
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classic...
slowing down now...
jeez man, where have you been?
:o
btw Thanks for the reply, deceiver.
You too, no one. Appreciate the honest response.
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I believe weight training when done right is beneficial for heart health.
its not going to replace cardio
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You're 49 but look 29? You don't have one of those fun house mirrors in your house? Just busting balls. In better shape than just about everyone regardless of age? You are either delusional or just have amazing conditioning.
I know I'm in good shape for my age but hell I know what I was capable of in my youth with objective numbers. I could string together 5 something minute miles in my youth. Today if I train like a mad man I can only do 7 something minute miles when I run. My physique is just about gone but again for my age I'm way ahead of the curve. My pressing is shot due to shoulder and elbow issues but I still hit hard in the weight room.
I'm not far off him age and can mirror those sentiments about regardless of age being at pretty much the top of the food chain not just cosmetically but functional at this size. most guys this size are not in good shape.
look at guys like Wes and simple Simon. they're pushing 70 and look awesome. sorry gentlemen couldn't resist. :D
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Almost 50, lifting 30+ years, no aches or pains, look 20 years younger, and in better shape than 99.9999% of the population regardless of age. Lifetime natty though, which means no running my body in overdrive.
As natural as two boys fucking
lol
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I have to say that lifting well into my 40's has kept me pretty healthy. I have a twin brother who doesn't lift and he has had many more aging related issues lately to deal with. Nothing serious, but just the nagging type of stuff that I seem to have pretty much avoided so far, it's gotta be the consistent exercise
Def can't train like I did in my 20's and 30's though, don't want to either, strength has stayed pretty steady too, happy about that
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even thou at 57 im still strong as a ox, the heavy powerlifting squat did from 30 to 40 ruined my knees. i cannot do anything but walk on a treadmill. my knees are shot. if i only knew, i would have not
done any powerlifting contests durning that time from 30 to 40. (best squat was 600 drug free, best set was 405 for 20 breathing squats)
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I don't know Judo, competing on that platform and pushing the big weights is a huge rush, we both know it
If you could do it again- ? I bet you would be pretty close to doing the same things, maybe with better form, technique, moderation etc....
An iron warrior is always an iron warrior
Don't mean any disrespect bro, just thinking out loud here, great that you are still in the gym at 57 !
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would i powerlift now if i could go back in time to my early thirties?????? i dont think so. even thou i met great guys and had a great time, it seems like im really paying for it not with my knees.
i started officiating basketball when i turned 50, and i knew the right people. i was on a one way ticket to working all year long, doing kids games, high school, rec games, ect. i was having a blast
reffing basketball. and then my knees started to hurt, then they really started to hurt. doctor told me i was too young for a replacement, too heavy, ect. i said what am i going to do for cardio. the prick said, ride
a bike. so my basketball career was over. i felt like crying on the way home that day. and now, i could not fucking run 30 feet. it sucks