Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Positive Bodybuilding Discussion & Talk => Natural Bodybuilding => Topic started by: The BEAST on February 08, 2006, 10:14:45 AM
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Hey there,
Well as you have probably figured out I'm natural, a Figure Competitor and a girl. I started dieting last week for my shows this year. It is earlier then I need to but I'm going to the Arnold and do not want to look like a fatty when I am there. Anyway, my first show is in May but I am focusing on Junior Nationals in June.
I've never taken creatine but because I'm natural and need to maintain my size throughout my shows I have been contemplating doing a cycle of creatine to get a little bigger now. Already this year, through training and a few other supplements I have packed on quite a bit of size. At my heaviest I was 140, now I'm down to 132, by the Arnold I want to be no smaller then 127 and I'll compete around 120 (hopefully). Cutting weight has been relatively easy in the past and I do very minimal cardio.
So, I have tried to cover the basics...just want some advice from you guys if you think it's a good idea or not. If you need more info about what I am doing now let me know.
Ok, I am attaching recent pics of me that I am embarrassed of so I cut off my head. Here I am 135, probably 16% bodyfat and only half-posing. You've seen me at my best so be nice:)
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Wheres the pics? ;D
Creatine basically bloats you. It pumps water into your muscles so you feel a better pump while working out....and you will get stronger and bigger. But you will bloat up a bit. I would plan on gaining 5-10 pounds of waterweight the first 2-3 weeks. Well, maybe 5 pounds since your a $1.40. It is a good supplement. It is absorbed through the intestines. When people take too much they experience diarrhea becasue it draws water into the intestines when not completely absorbed, may cause stomach aches also, especially if its grainy. I take 5g's a day, and since it's hard to absorb, I take 2.5 g's pre and 2.5 post workout with some juice or some form of sugars to help with the digestion and quicker absorption. You have to drink a lot of water while on it also. I have never had a loading phase either, so I wouldn't bother with that.
I think it's a good move and has worked for me. Hope this helps. If you have any more questions, please ask.
If you are going to do a cycle of creatine during your shows, bad idea. You wont' get as lean or ripped. I am guessing to end it 2 weeks prior to the show to lose the extra waterweight.
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No, if I was to do it it would be now through March. My first show is May. Part of the problem is I don't want to get to big for Figure, though naturally it may be hard to do that.
Here are the pics I forgot to add, and thanks for the response.
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it wouldn't let me post them together...
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What are you embarrased about, you look really good. I was expecting worse. Your still relatively lean. I wouldn't worry about taking creatine and getting "too big". You won't be out of proportion in a figure contest from creatine......especially if it's in May. Go for it. Need to start now though.
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Don't expect much, not everyone is a creatine responder.
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Just from my experience with using creatine, I found I do get watered up from it but if I stop taking it I will drop the water pretty quick and flatten out. I have taken it all the way up to the day of a bodybuilding competition with no ill effects. If you cut your fluid intake correctly prior to the show along with carb deplete/loading, it may help you come in fuller to the show.
If this makes you nervous, you can drop the creatine about a week out from your show as the creatine drops from your system after approximately 2-3 days of not using it.
How bout this? Try a short 7-10 course of creatine see how your body responds, then drop it and see how your body looks after a couple of days.
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if you respond to it itll work great for pre show, by the way you look awesome
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I dont' think i'd use creatine too close to show....Personally i retain alot of water and sometimes get bloated in the first couple days...i defanitly feel tighter and harder off of it.
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Thanks for the responses, I love all the conflicting views. It makes it so much easier for me to decide what to do ;)
Actually doing a 2 week cycle might be the thing to do to see if I respond to it well-I may wait until after Junior Nationals to see where I come in compared to the other girls. I'm planning on winning my class as it is, but if that plan doesn't hold true I will definitely do a cycle before the USA's in July. I'll be bloated anyway so a little extra for a week or two won't kill me. If that doesn't work out well for me I'll have New York in August.
G-Bigger-I suppose I don't think creatine would push me over the edge of being too big but I already get comments about my size. Most people don't realize how big Pro Figure girls are and think I should do bbing, I suppose in those pictures you can't really tell but when I am pumped at the gym I get it all the time that I am too big for Figure. I know better because I have seen the girls first hand but it wears on me.
This whole lifestyle is sometimes mental torture...I never think I am big enough, or lean enough and then the general public looks at you like your crazy and huge. Its a little different then straight out bbing because in that you want to be AS BIG AS possible, for Figure who the hell knows what the judges will look for in your particular show. Anyway, sorry for my rambling-its the diet talking...
Thanks again for all your help:)
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Your conditioning won't suffer at all from creatine. Creatine increases water strored in muscle cells not subcutaneously (under the skin).
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Thanks for the responses, I love all the conflicting views. It makes it so much easier for me to decide what to do ;)
Actually doing a 2 week cycle might be the thing to do to see if I respond to it well-I may wait until after Junior Nationals to see where I come in compared to the other girls. I'm planning on winning my class as it is, but if that plan doesn't hold true I will definitely do a cycle before the USA's in July. I'll be bloated anyway so a little extra for a week or two won't kill me. If that doesn't work out well for me I'll have New York in August.
G-Bigger-I suppose I don't think creatine would push me over the edge of being too big but I already get comments about my size. Most people don't realize how big Pro Figure girls are and think I should do bbing, I suppose in those pictures you can't really tell but when I am pumped at the gym I get it all the time that I am too big for Figure. I know better because I have seen the girls first hand but it wears on me.
This whole lifestyle is sometimes mental torture...I never think I am big enough, or lean enough and then the general public looks at you like your crazy and huge. Its a little different then straight out bbing because in that you want to be AS BIG AS possible, for Figure who the hell knows what the judges will look for in your particular show. Anyway, sorry for my rambling-its the diet talking...
Thanks again for all your help:)
I think that water retention from creatine would over time encourage the formation of cellulite in Women?
PS: Can you post a picture of a Woman who you consider to have perfect or near perfect size and condition for figure? Because I have not got a clear idea what that is. But if you did that we could give an objective opinion on what you need to change to get there.
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I think that water retention from creatine would over time encourage the formation of cellulite in Women?
wtf
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Well my fav girl on stage right now is Val Waugaman. She is quite a bit bigger then me thoiugh, 5 inches. Another new girl who I think has a nice body and is my height is Michelle Flake. Now I am sure you'll ask me to post pics of them...I can't from this computer but here are a few links
http://www.hardfitness.com/competitions/sacramento2005/profigure/valeriewaugaman/twopiece/images/DSC_0277.jpg
http://www.hardfitness.com/competitions/sacramento2005/profigure/valeriewaugaman/twopiece/images/DSC_0109.jpg
http://www.hardfitness.com/competitions/usavegas2005/figureb/michelleflake/twopiece/images/DSC_0017.jpg
Yeah I think I tend to like a more muscular look.
As far as creatine adding cellulite, I don't buy it :)
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i think creatine takes more time than just two or three days to go outside the body...
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Well my fav girl on stage right now is Val Waugaman. She is quite a bit bigger then me thoiugh, 5 inches. Another new girl who I think has a nice body and is my height is Michelle Flake. Now I am sure you'll ask me to post pics of them...I can't from this computer but here are a few links
http://www.hardfitness.com/competitions/sacramento2005/profigure/valeriewaugaman/twopiece/images/DSC_0277.jpg
http://www.hardfitness.com/competitions/sacramento2005/profigure/valeriewaugaman/twopiece/images/DSC_0109.jpg
http://www.hardfitness.com/competitions/usavegas2005/figureb/michelleflake/twopiece/images/DSC_0017.jpg
Yeah I think I tend to like a more muscular look.
As far as creatine adding cellulite, I don't buy it :)
Bearing in mind you are only half posing and that your bikini probably doesn't suit your body I don't think mass is a big problem. I think that in your case you can probably look closer to the way you want by adding small amounts of bodymass in the right areas. Than you could by adding fully 10lbs over your general upper back and legs or whatever. But it's hard to tell exactly because the pose the condition the camera angle and the suit are all different. Plus are you on tip toes or not I can't see?
Heres an article that might interest you http://www.larryscott.com/bio/newsletter/97spring_1.cfm
I'm not sure if the Pivot Points are the same for figure competitors or not, but it illustrates the lines along which I'm thinking.
If I were in the US again soon I'd probably contact Charles Glass
http://www.charles-glass.com/board/board_topic/1270345/75358.htm
I'd get him to evaluate my physique. Discuss what I wanted to achieve and then have him design a routine for me and take me through it over a series of sessions instructing me in the nuances of exercise performance over a number of workouts (I'd listen to everything he said like my life depended upon it and I have a notepad with me so I could write it all down at the end that way you get the most for what you pay). Maybe you should do that if you have the time and the money, and if you survive you can tell us all about it. Assuming you haven't had professional advice already.
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http://www.smartbodynutrition.com/Merchant2/inside_article.php?id=12
How long does creatine stay in the blood stream?
When you take creatine in powder form, it’s in your blood stream for about 1 to 1.5 hours. For muscle growth the creatine must be absorbed into the muscles. So, if you are working out and deplete your creatine supply in your muscles AND you have creatine available in the blood stream, your muscles can replenish their creatine supply from the creatine in your blood. Here is the important point. If your muscles are fully saturated with creatine and you are not working out (so you are not depleting your creatine stores) then after 1.5 hours the creatine in your blood will be converted into creatinine and excreted.
I am basing the 2-3 day drop off from my own experience, as with everything in this industry, its a case by case thing. I have read labels in the past that advise reloading if you are off creatine for 2 days or more....
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after 3 months of creatine (5/10 gr per workout, 3/4 times a week, no creatine when rest days) i use to stop it for one month 1/2, and i always feel still powerful for 2 to 3 weeks after i stopped. After this 2 weeks my strenght starts to diminish.
?
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Ace-the article was great and it is similar to many of the things that I have been working on, rear and side delts, upper chest and lower lats. Kind of strange actually. You are probably right about not having to add overall mass...but just like the article says, no matter how big you are, you always want to be bigger:) It is definitely how I feel and I should change my thinking.
I've also never heard of Charles Glass (which I am sure shows how new I am to the whole sport) and if this year doesn't work out the way I am hoping it will I will have to do something. I'm guessing talking with him is rather expensive...but would be worth it.
Thanks for the info and article, I appreciate it.
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Charles Glass has a reputation for innovation in exercise selection and performance, he's the guy that alot of pro's will look to to correct their weaknesses. I think in your sport it's even more important to focus upon proportion.
Vince Gironda is another name you can put into the search engine and he was especially well known for his knowledge in this area. He trained Arnold, Sergio, Larry Scott, Bill Pearl, just about all of the top guys in the 60's and 70's at one time or another. In fact the way I heard it Weider sent Arnold to Vince pretty much as soon as he set foot on American soil.
It's also interesting to note that these 2 girls both have very strong forearm developement compared to their upper arms.. Compared to what I'm normally used to seeing in bodybuilding.
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Creatine is the only supplement that has ever worked for me. Having said that I have heard of a lot of guys that claim they felt nothing. I have been lifting hard for over 30 years. The first time I used it I noticed a difference in 5 days. I got stronger and difitinitely felt a tight sensation in the muscles. It's not a placebo effect because I don't believe in the claims of supplements. I have tried a lot of things and I will be the first to say every supplement I have tried has no effect except creatine.
My unscientific experience with creatine is admittedly an experiment of one. I have come to some conclusions.
1. If I'm training hard doing hour and half workouts and cardio I notice a real difference in reps.
2. Muscles seem to get a very tight feeling. There has been a lot of anecdotal evidence on web sites of guys that have ripped muscles blaming their creatine use. I have recently ripped my bicep off the bone at it's insertion but I feel it was completely unrelated. I was picking up one side of a 1000lb pool table.
3. One side effect is diarrhea. How bad this side effect is depends on the coarseness of grains of creatine. German creatine appears to be very fine powder and doesn't irritate as much as some of the American creatine that isn't as fine.
4. Talking to some guys I was surprised to hear they don't praise creatine like do. Maybe they don't respond to it? Could it be they are very casual trainers who wouldn't notice things like a guys who trains really hard and keeps an accurate training log? I don't know the answer why it doesn't work for everyone.
5. There is small water retention with creatine. I gain about 4 to 5 pounds on it. I go from about 182 to 187.
6. I have used it for 5 years. I go on it for 5 weeks and take a week off. I have noticed no ill effects but the occasional runs. Since I'm off it while getting my arm better it has disappeared.
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Creatine is the only supplement that has ever worked for me. Having said that I have heard of a lot of guys that claim they felt nothing. I have been lifting hard for over 30 years. The first time I used it I noticed a difference in 5 days. I got stronger and difitinitely felt a tight sensation in the muscles. It's not a placebo effect because I don't believe in the claims of supplements. I have tried a lot of things and I will be the first to say every supplement I have tried has no effect except creatine.
My unscientific experience with creatine is admittedly an experiment of one. I have come to some conclusions.
1. If I'm training hard doing hour and half workouts and cardio I notice a real difference in reps.
2. Muscles seem to get a very tight feeling. There has been a lot of anecdotal evidence on web sites of guys that have ripped muscles blaming their creatine use. I have recently ripped my bicep off the bone at it's insertion but I feel it was completely unrelated. I was picking up one side of a 1000lb pool table.
3. One side effect is diarrhea. How bad this side effect is depends on the coarseness of grains of creatine. German creatine appears to be very fine powder and doesn't irritate as much as some of the American creatine that isn't as fine.
4. Talking to some guys I was surprised to hear they don't praise creatine like do. Maybe they don't respond to it? Could it be they are very casual trainers who wouldn't notice things like a guys who trains really hard and keeps an accurate training log? I don't know the answer why it doesn't work for everyone.
5. There is small water retention with creatine. I gain about 4 to 5 pounds on it. I go from about 182 to 187.
6. I have used it for 5 years. I go on it for 5 weeks and take a week off. I have noticed no ill effects but the occasional runs. Since I'm off it while getting my arm better it has disappeared.
Never noticed much from going on creatine but I'm pretty much on it year round just in case. Though I can easily forget to take it for a month or so since I notice no unusual change in bodyweight going on or off creatine. I was told it probably indicates that I already have alot of creatine which makes sense as I eat alot of fish.
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Never noticed much from going on creatine but I'm pretty much on it year round just in case.
LMAO, just in case...you sound a little silly to me. If you don't see any differences why don't you spend your money on a supplement that you see changes with?
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LMAO, just in case...you sound a little silly to me. If you don't see any differences why don't you spend your money on a supplement that you see changes with?
I'm not even sure what you mean, what changes are you seeing that couldn't be accounted for another way? If I saw changes how would I know it was due to creatine? Maybe I'd gain 4 pounds of water on Nitrous-X because I'm slightly allergic to a new mouthwash and turn into a Nitrous-X devotee. Maybe I give up creatine and I don't notice a difference, then later I change my diet which includes less creatine from natural sources, train for two years like this, and then gain 4lbs of water when I go back on creatine. Maybe I give up cardio and gain 2lbs of lymphatic fluid in a day so I never do cardio again and die of a heart attack? Maybe I'm allergic to milk and every time I mix my protein with water I loose 9lbs over 2 weeks, so I drink lots of milk but never get anywhere because my body is having one long allergic reaction.
Too many variables.
At least with larger studies the numbers even out these kinds of things. The studies say creatine works, I'm not about to start drawring conclusions myself unless somebody gives me a study group which includes alot more than just 1 person.
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So...because other people have seen increases using a product (even if you haven't) you will continue to use the product forever??? Aren't you really the only person that matters when using a supplement? It seems like you are basing your usage of a supplement not on if it works for YOU but on how it affects other people.
Currently I am taking a NO2 product and when I started taking it I noticed an increase in vascularity and over the next month strength. Could I attribute this to ingesting more milk that month or eating more donuts...I suppose I could, but I started taking the supplement and the saw and felt results. I started incorporating EFA's into my diet and I leaned out about 3 pounds, could this be because I ate less pizza and switched from downy to tide...I guess but again I saw results after I incorporated them into my diet.
On the other hand I tried taking supplements that curb your apptitte...didn't work so much for me as I was just as hungry as I was every other night, so I didn't continue to take them. Now I know for a fact this supplement worked for my friend and others but after testing it on myself saw no effects. The results I get from a supplement are the only results I care about. Before I take something I like learning about the supplement and what the common effects are but some supplements don't work for some people. I suppose that I just don't understand taking a supplement that you are unsure about the results of for a long (years) period of time.
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So...because other people have seen increases using a product (even if you haven't) you will continue to use the product forever??? Aren't you really the only person that matters when using a supplement? It seems like you are basing your usage of a supplement not on if it works for YOU but on how it affects other people.
Currently I am taking a NO2 product and when I started taking it I noticed an increase in vascularity and over the next month strength. Could I attribute this to ingesting more milk that month or eating more donuts...I suppose I could, but I started taking the supplement and the saw and felt results. I started incorporating EFA's into my diet and I leaned out about 3 pounds, could this be because I ate less pizza and switched from downy to tide...I guess but again I saw results after I incorporated them into my diet.
On the other hand I tried taking supplements that curb your apptitte...didn't work so much for me as I was just as hungry as I was every other night, so I didn't continue to take them. Now I know for a fact this supplement worked for my friend and others but after testing it on myself saw no effects. The results I get from a supplement are the only results I care about. Before I take something I like learning about the supplement and what the common effects are but some supplements don't work for some people. I suppose that I just don't understand taking a supplement that you are unsure about the results of for a long (years) period of time.
I don't want to risk messing with a winning formula.
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I don't want to risk messing with a winning formula.
Good answer ;)
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I don't recommend you using any creatine. Your already just as strong as most of the weekend warriors at the gym...If you get any stronger i'll be embarrassed to train with you ever again. Anyways....what brand of supplements have you been using...you mentioned a nitix oxide and efa product?
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Well, thanks for the compliments-I know I am stronger then most girls (and many guys) I just don't know if I will be big enough. I suppose I should talk to you guys about it, since you have seen me in person, but you haven't seen many figure Pro's. You going to the Arnold? If you are it will give you a better idea of how big I need to be. As far as what I am taking now, Pride Nutrtion supplements-they are clean and haven't caused me any problems:)
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Well, thanks for the compliments-I know I am stronger then most girls
Boy it's getting deep in here.....
;D
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Boy it's getting deep in here..... ;D
What are you feeling left out? :P
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I actually notice nothing when I take creatine compared to when I don't. My weight or strength doesn't suddenly go up at all after using it.
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i thought you benefitted more from creatine in the recovery phases AFTER a workout...
attributing to the rapid increases in strength and size one being to water and the other because it cuts down on recover time? ???
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No, if I was to do it it would be now through March. My first show is May. Part of the problem is I don't want to get to big for Figure, though naturally it may be hard to do that.
Here are the pics I forgot to add, and thanks for the response.
girl if this is the worst you look during the year......let me get that number ;D
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Thanks candidate...I'm feeling better about my looks now that I am down about 10 pounds.
Oh, its old news but I did start taking creatine about a month ago and LOVE it. It is a creatine/glutamine mix and I only take 1/2 serving before I work out. Through my dieting I have not lost strength other then a little in my legs, though it is probably more apprehension then anything else. My muscles have been fuller since taking the creatine and I will probably take through my shows this year to help keep my muscle size throughout the dieting.
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actually, i would NOT keep taking it through your shows.....about 2 weeks out from any show you do you need to drop the creaine as it does make you hold water and you wont look as crisp.
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I use to think that but the formula I am using I haven't seen really any water retention. Also I only use it on lifting days and I will stop lifting Wednesday so cut it then and go with straight glutamine...also I am Figure so being rock solid isn't my goal-especially in my first show. For Jr's I will drop it on my last leg day (8 days out) but through then I just want to make sure I am maintaining my muscle size.
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I use to think that but the formula I am using I haven't seen really any water retention. Also I only use it on lifting days and I will stop lifting Wednesday so cut it then and go with straight glutamine...also I am Figure so being rock solid isn't my goal-especially in my first show. For Jr's I will drop it on my last leg day (8 days out) but through then I just want to make sure I am maintaining my muscle size.
oooohh i forgot about that. i remember reading an article about branch warrenns wife being wayy too shredded and muscular the day before a show so he took her out for pizza and ice cream that night and she won the show the next day ;D
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I think Brewer's Yeast is a better supplement.
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I didn tlike creatine. I used it before one of my shows and dint care for it...JMHO
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Well my fav girl on stage right now is Val Waugaman. She is quite a bit bigger then me thoiugh, 5 inches. Another new girl who I think has a nice body and is my height is Michelle Flake. Now I am sure you'll ask me to post pics of them...I can't from this computer but here are a few links
http://www.hardfitness.com/competitions/sacramento2005/profigure/valeriewaugaman/twopiece/images/DSC_0277.jpg
http://www.hardfitness.com/competitions/sacramento2005/profigure/valeriewaugaman/twopiece/images/DSC_0109.jpg
http://www.hardfitness.com/competitions/usavegas2005/figureb/michelleflake/twopiece/images/DSC_0017.jpg
Yeah I think I tend to like a more muscular look.
As far as creatine adding cellulite, I don't buy it :)
Val looks like she has some cannonball delts and Michelle's legs look huge! (I am a fan of more muscular for sure) It's gotta be my ignorance or lack of figure knowledge but I always thought that most of the figure women looked like they didn't spend very much time weight training. To me it looked like they simply got away with just eating clean, I dunno, Maybe it was just the shows I have been to?
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Val looks like she has some cannonball delts and Michelle's legs look huge! (I am a fan of more muscular for sure) It's gotta be my ignorance or lack of figure knowledge but I always thought that most of the figure women looked like they didn't spend very much time weight training. To me it looked like they simply got away with just eating clean, I dunno, Maybe it was just the shows I have been to?
At local shows that may be true but at the National Level and above I compare the girls to the early bodybuilders (Rachel Mclish/Cory Everson). It seems that so far this year the look has been a little toned down and softer but the top Figure Girls aren't small and I probably spend as much time in the gym as you do:)