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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Lion666 on March 02, 2006, 09:01:18 AM
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the idea of flat benches being useless came up in the useless bb excercises thread. what does everyone think. what builds a great chest, bench, flyes, inclines, dips, db's? some people come from the stand point that flat bar bench is bad for the shoulders. does that include db's, what about inclines, or incline db's. can flat flyes get the job done? what about incline flyes? whats everyones take?
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flat bench is great.
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Flat asses are disgusting.
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the idea of flat benches being useless came up in the useless bb excercises thread. what does everyone think. what builds a great chest, bench, flyes, inclines, dips, db's? some people come from the stand point that flat bar bench is bad for the shoulders. does that include db's, what about inclines, or incline db's. can flat flyes get the job done? what about incline flyes? whats everyones take?
SHUT THE FUCK UP! JESUS CHRIST. WHO GIVES A FUCK? DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU, THERES NO REASON TO DISCUSS THIS DUMB BULLSHIT. SOMEONE DELETE THIS STUPID FUCKING THREAD AND BAN THIS FAGGOT.
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For some reason anything I do on a flat bench or Flys hurts my shoulder really hard. I don't do them. Basicly everything I do is on an incline angle
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SHUT THE f**k UP! JESUS CHRIST. WHO GIVES A f**k? DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU, THERES NO REASON TO DISCUSS THIS DUMB BULLSHIT. SOMEONE DELETE THIS STUPID FUCKING THREAD AND BAN THIS FAGGOT.
Fu*king hell XL, a little unnecessary don't you think?
The dude has questions and wants answers...
...you could have just told him to find out what works for him.
Lion, here's my view - Bench press is a good exercise in general for building mass. Any compound exercises will generally build more muscle than an isolation exercise. Isolation moves often help with shape, density and detail. So... if you want a bigger, fuller chest, do bench press. If you want to create better shape and detail, do flyes.
I do think people would benefit if they focused more on incline presses. Your chest will look much bigger if you build a large upper chest. I find that Incline press and dips are a decent combo for overall chest mass.
As XL pointed out, these are only very general statements - you should try them all, keep an accurate log of progress and then make an educated and personalized decision.
But as a rule of thumb, if it's size you want, stick to compound exercises -
- Bench Press
- Dips
- Squats
- Deadlifts
- Chins
- Rows
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db presses are normally prefered since they're safer and you can go deeper. flat bench is good if you do it right but quiet a few people are not able to 'feel' and 'work' the chest, they use shoulders too much etc
inclines are good, if you havent dont inclines put them first on your chest workout for some time and see how that works. a personal favorite of mine is dips as well where i lend myself forward to really work the chest.
i dont care much for flyes or cable exercises other than as finishing/pump exercises.
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exactly...
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imo, these are the best exercises to build chest : lever chest press and lever decline chest press
that will make u feel the "burn/pump"!
i totally forgot bench press after i discovered these machines.
(http://www.exrx.net/AnimatedEx/PectoralSternal/LVChestPressN.gif)
(http://www.exrx.net/AnimatedEx/PectoralSternal/LVDeclineChestPress.gif)
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The only issue I have with these machines is that they have a fixed path - there is no requirement for your muscles to control or stabalize the weight. Sure, they have a place in my workout... but I'd never just use them.
Call me old fashoned, but I love bench press - you can use a lever machine and press 70kg a side, but it's not the same a using a pair of 70 DBs. You can REALLY feel every kg with free weights
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The only issue I have with these machines is that they have a fixed path - there is no requirement for your muscles to control or stabalize the weight. Sure, they have a place in my workout... but I'd never just use them.
Call me old fashoned, but I love bench press - you can use a lever machine and press 70kg a side, but it's not the same a using a pair of 70 DBs. You can REALLY feel every kg with free weights
these machines allow you to pause at the top of the rep, hold the position, burn your muscle with a total control of what you re doing, with a perfect form.when you re using free weights, you waste your time and energy controlling the move, and aren't totally focusing on flexing your muscles imo.
You are distracted from focusing on building muscles, fearing that the weights fall appart.
I'm pretty sure most pros build their pecs with, essentially, machines.
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i'll use machines once in awhile now that i got some size to my chest but i can thank barbell and dumbell flat presses for that size. going heavy and not giving a flying fuck about the burn.
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Incline barbell presses and flat bench presses are the biggest size builders.
end of story
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SHUT THE f**k UP! JESUS CHRIST. WHO GIVES A f**k? DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU, THERES NO REASON TO DISCUSS THIS DUMB BULLSHIT. SOMEONE DELETE THIS STUPID FUCKING THREAD AND BAN THIS FAGGOT.
Very True, there has been an influx of dumb ass topics lately , hopefully the Arnold Classic will give us some new stuff.... but yeah f*ck all these dumb ass topics...
How short was Franco?
Is Robby Robinson black?
Squats, How and Why?
Where is Bob Paris?
What is Joe Weider up to these days?
1980 Mr O seems lil shady
Larry Scott First Mr. O...Discuss
Will arnold make it in hollywood.
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whoever the guy is that ripped me up, stfu XL, i should be banned, its gossip & opinions c0csuker. oh what you want another ronnie vs dorian thread. there were quite a few replies under the useless bb post regarding flat bench figured it could use its own. been in the game for a while now not asking any question for myself per say just posting for thoughts, everyone on this board does and will do what works for them, nice to see what does work for them. i come from the school of bench being a primary excercise and would have a hard time dropping it even if it is harmful to shoulders. that is something to think about, people have said this and not only on this board that flatbarbench is harmful to shoulders. i know i have to specifiaclly train rotator cuffs or they start to hurt because pecs, shoulders and tris get stronger but rotator stay the same. when you start to handle heavier weight thats when you get rotator strain or tear. anyone have any facts on the bench hurting shoulders.
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the idea of flat benches being useless came up in the useless bb excercises thread. what does everyone think. what builds a great chest, bench, flyes, inclines, dips, db's? some people come from the stand point that flat bar bench is bad for the shoulders. does that include db's, what about inclines, or incline db's. can flat flyes get the job done? what about incline flyes? whats everyones take?
What builds a great chest? Any type of exercise for the chest that works for YOU! Everyone's different in their genetic make-up, tendon length, muscle insertions, bone structure etc., so everyone has to find the exercise that produces the best results for them.
No ONE single exercise can be held as being the one & above all correct exercise for a specific body part. If you find doing flat benching hurts your delt joints - like mine do too - then find an alternative & go with that till you FEEL or SEE the results.
Just thought I'd add my 2 cents
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i agree. quit being a bitch. ohh what are u gonna say? go back and read the boards. some people may not have time to go back and read post that were made 5 months ago. he just wanted to know some people's opinion, thats why he asked the question? thats what message boards are for. I dont know about lion666, but i am in college, i study and do work. we dont have time to go back and look. everybody on these message boards are the same damn way. they all think they are badass and can bash everyone. no one on this board has any right to say shit about anyone. damn i needed to get that off my chest.
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If you are looking to gain overall body mass strap on a set load up the weight and get going with deads benches and squats...
You got mass and are afriad of injury dont bench. Although flys are an injury waiting to happen if you use any serious weight
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guys with the biggest/strongest chest muscles i've ever seen did Flat BB presses, incline DB presses and dips...
Find what works for you...i have never liked machine presses.
8)
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I like incline.....flat hurts my shoulders
Plus, most people lack upper chest thickness.
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No one has mentioned that there is no one excercise to build any muscle group on its own. Take legs for example, you do squats first then all the assistance excercises like leg presses and leg extensions after. For chest do flat bench then flyes and dumbell inclines or whatever. As far as flat bench being dangerous, why is it that this excercise has been around forever and is still done by the majority of weight trainers still today? Because it works. If you do it wrong and dont warm up properly you will eventually get hurt. Also if you do steroids and all of the sudden find yourself benching 50 pounds more than you did 2 weeks ago, you can tear a pec or fuck up your shoulder. Seems like common sense to me.
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Was never that hot at falt bench , although I gave it alot of attention I never could real master it , my triceps always seemed to give way first thus stopping the movement dead in its tracks !! I found flat DB press to be far more beneficial plus I could incline far better than flat press !!!
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You must have big delts..... I find i am also stronger on incline because my front delts are naturally strong and big while my chest lacks due to this..
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bench, baby, bench!
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its all technique and comfort, some people ar emuch more comfortable with barbells, then dumbbells, i personally can go very heavy on dumbbells, but max out at about 295 on flat bench, i just could never get the hang of it, i use both i like to switch them up , but i do feel dumbbell flat bench gived more of a stretch and forces you to work a lil harder in order to stabalise, a good forearm workout as well
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some form of benching, flat barbell, incline bb, or dumbell flat or db inclines is necessary for maximum development imo
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Very True, there has been an influx of dumb ass topics lately , hopefully the Arnold Classic will give us some new stuff.... but yeah f*ck all these dumb ass topics...
How short was Franco?
Is Robby Robinson black?
Squats, How and Why?
Where is Bob Paris?
What is Joe Weider up to these days?
1980 Mr O seems lil shady
Larry Scott First Mr. O...Discuss
Will arnold make it in hollywood.
LOL....good one....still chuckling
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Although I don't do them all every workout, I've always got to throw in flat BB benches, squats and deadlifts at least a few times a month. There's no substitute for them IMO, unless they are medically contraindicated for whatever reason.
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imo, these are the best exercises to build chest : lever chest press and lever decline chest press
that will make u feel the "burn/pump"!
i totally forgot bench press after i discovered these machines.
(http://www.exrx.net/AnimatedEx/PectoralSternal/LVChestPressN.gif)
(http://www.exrx.net/AnimatedEx/PectoralSternal/LVDeclineChestPress.gif)
I bet you you did the same thing with squats too. You found an exercise that was made for pussies and took right to it.
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SHUT THE f**k UP! JESUS CHRIST. WHO GIVES A f**k? DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU, THERES NO REASON TO DISCUSS THIS DUMB BULLSHIT. SOMEONE DELETE THIS STUPID FUCKING THREAD AND BAN THIS FAGGOT.
I agree with you. Pointless thread.
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Pointless thread? From what's here it's obviously of interest.
Some of those lever press machines are f***** awesome, just as Vic Martinez will tell you-it's basically the same motion along with better resistance curves and constant tension. Bottom line, it hits the muscles as good or even better. That's ALL that matters, macho men.
Any predictable argument about fixed paths is easily countered by the additional resistance loads placed on the muscles - 6 of one, half dozen of the other, with no clear winner.
As far a size builders, lots of you guys are stuck with preconceptions developed and stuck with years ago. Benches are only good for some, are fairly useless to others. Only a couple mentioned that whatever works is what's important-some of the BEST size builders are isolations.
Heavy-ass non-compounds and cable work builds massive SIZE, get used to it & get your poundages up to find out for yourselves.
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It's pointless, because the topic was already going on in another thread.
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http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=57724.75
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pumpster, in your opinion give an example chest workout. you said heavy non-compounds along w cables. So flyes, crossovers what else? pull overs, kinda compound though. the fact that you said iso builds good size is interesting, have you had success with them and have your workouts been centered around them? doesnt count if you put them in your sessions like after bench, thats what almost everyone does. curious to know what you think/done.
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imo, these are the best exercises to build chest : lever chest press and lever decline chest press
that will make u feel the "burn/pump"!
i totally forgot bench press after i discovered these machines.
(http://www.exrx.net/AnimatedEx/PectoralSternal/LVChestPressN.gif)
(http://www.exrx.net/AnimatedEx/PectoralSternal/LVDeclineChestPress.gif)
Would you take pec training advice from someone who goes by the name AnalCandy??? ;D
All kidding aside...AnalCandy, did you actually achieve growth with these machines, moreso than with free weights? While I like machines for isolation exercises and think they should be included in a training program, I don't know that they are the ultimate in producing big pecs.
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Although I don't do them all every workout, I've always got to throw in flat BB benches, squats and deadlifts at least a few times a month. There's no substitute for them IMO, unless they are medically contraindicated for whatever reason.
I agree with Dan-O....
always in the need of different variety & especially in compound movements
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I've gotten better results with heavy flat/incline/decline flys, cables, ped deck and occasionally weighted pushups, none of which hurt the shoulders the way BB benches do. The reps should be moderate 6-12, so that there's more control and feel. I never got much of that from doing benches or dips though, and both were tough on the shoulders. If I knew then what I know now I'd have avoided many years of either one.
Of course, there are natural benchers with huge chests who never get hurt, but I'd guess that they'd respond to any chest exercise plus it's hard to tell which of the exercises they've used were more effective. I think it was the recent Flex where Bob Chic was talking about that; he never does benches and sticks to flys and cable crossovers.
Bodybuilding's filled with inconsistencies-bicep curls are not compounds, yet are the best size builders, but on chest or lats the rules change, which makes no sense. One of the best non-compound lat exercises is pullovers-there is only one pivot point and one primary muscle involved, it is not a compound. Machine pullovers even better and are farther removed from compounds. It's just a matter of using moderate reps and building up to heavy ass weights. Guys I've seen using serious weight on non-compounds were huge.
On triceps, there is *no* compound that hits the tris as effectively for size as extensions, a non compound exercise and Sergio's fave.
Another fallasy is that cables are for refining. Coleman's favorite size builder for bis is cable curls.
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it's not how much you bench it's how you bench. no matter how you do it flat incline barbell or dumbell machine or smith machine...it's not how much you bench, it's how you bench! when i got my pro card i never had more than 3 45's each side of the barbell ever! and my chest is my strongest body part!
it's not how much you bench! it's how you bench. bodybuilders are pussies powerlifters are real strong but look puffy/watery and hold more bodyfat. it's your choice....but if you ever wanna compete, and im only talkin about local competitions here, the ego must stay out of the gym for atleast an hour....otherwise you will always hear the following sentence: "whats goin on big guy".. i'm sure 99% of this board people are femiliar with this sentence.
it's not how much you bench...it's how you bench! say it every day 100 times before you enter the gym and try not to look at the sluts around and you will do fine..
good luck
** the fact you see denis bench pressing 4/5 plates of 45s each side of the barbell incline...is cuz for years and years and years and then some more years he was doing 1 and 2 and 3 plates each side of the barbell and he also did it right for many years. in addition his lean mass is simply higher than the typical guy in the gym. he really got 250 pounds of lean muscle mass...it's not some 190 pounds +60 pounds of water and fat over it.
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I noticed that-the biggest guys I'd see were using solid but not overwhelming weight-increasing the weight was important but only after other factors like feel, control and the use of moderate reps were already covered.
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lee priest doesnt do barbell bench and look at his pecs
;)