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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: KSA on March 08, 2006, 09:04:36 AM

Title: Barbell squat
Post by: KSA on March 08, 2006, 09:04:36 AM
Some people elevate their heels when they squat, useful for what ?
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: pumpster on March 08, 2006, 09:11:11 AM
-Better balance.
-Easier on the knees.
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: davie on March 08, 2006, 09:15:18 AM
I have been led to believe it puts more of the stress on the quads, when done with front squats its puts more emphasis on tear drop. Only what i was told.

davie
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: shiftedShapes on March 08, 2006, 09:20:16 AM
it is actually harder on the knees

most of the time these people woujld be better served by increasing their hip flexibility so they could squat properly without the blocks
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: JPM on March 08, 2006, 09:28:40 AM
By putting the heels on a 2" block (or BB plates) more recuitment of the quads (teardrop development just above the knees comes to mind) comes into play. With the flatfooted version (regular squat) the quads are hit as well but the glutes and hips also get a great share of work. The idea is to focus the exercise  mostly on the quads themselves. Can also do this with BB Hack squats, which is one of my favorite exercises for quad development. Olympic lifters wear higher heeled shoes/boots because of better balance and leverage when doing snatches & cleans. Check out their quads sometime.  Though it would appear that there is too much stress on the knee's themselves, that is not usually the case for most men. If you have genetic weaker knee structure than this exercise may not be for you. Good Luck.

Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: Jr. Yates on March 08, 2006, 11:26:49 AM
I always thought it was for more of a stretch in the quad when you come down.
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: JPM on March 08, 2006, 02:32:51 PM
If you want a maxium stretch for the quads and total legs than do sissy squats. Called sissy because it was said to make sissy's out of some of the best heavy squater's around. The burn is outstanding when you first try them, but you have to do them the correct. If you can pump out 10 or so reps than your doing them wrong. Use bwt only, no added weight.They should be done free handed without holding on to anything. When first learning the exercise you can grab a pole or whatever to help your balance.  Some advance guy's will hold a BB plate (25, 45, etc, whatever) to their chest. There are other quad/leg stretches ot there which a lot of track athletes do before serious training. Squating with heels on a block is not the best way to get a maxium stretch and never was intended to be. Good Luck.
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: Jr. Yates on March 08, 2006, 03:08:29 PM
i have tried sissy squats before....i guess its one of those excersises you never think to put in the routine...maybe i'll give em a shot today...would you say to do them at the end of the workout?
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: Arnold jr on March 08, 2006, 06:11:58 PM
i have tried sissy squats before....i guess its one of those excersises you never think to put in the routine...maybe i'll give em a shot today...would you say to do them at the end of the workout?
I like doing these in between my sets, other times I'll throw them in at the end.
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: Hugh G. Reqshun on March 08, 2006, 07:56:00 PM
Some guys elevate their heels due to a short Achilles tendon.
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: davie on March 09, 2006, 08:48:14 AM
How do u do sissy squats (any pictures etc)????

davie
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: Ursus on March 10, 2006, 02:24:24 PM
you are not meant to raise your heel. many ppl do this cos their stance is too  narrow and a lack of flexibility. i used to do this.
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: pumpster on March 10, 2006, 02:47:24 PM
A block is a real help in squatting. Silly me my experience agrees 100% with Draper's.:D

Sissy squat: Hold a plate to your chest with one hand, use the other hand to hold onto something for balance, then squat down with knees close together while leaning back.
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: davie on March 10, 2006, 02:58:25 PM
So its jst a bodyweight squat (or hold disc to chest) but u lean bak and have to hold onto something with free hand?!
I see,interesting.

davie
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: candidate2025 on March 10, 2006, 03:58:05 PM
ive alwasy been told to keep my weight on my heels when squatting........ so thats what i do.
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: Robert E. Lee on March 15, 2006, 08:31:17 PM
who's that in the pic, waller?  Man he went deep as hell.
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: hillbilly on March 16, 2006, 03:22:13 AM
-Better balance.
-Easier on the knees.

actually harder on the knees
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: XS on March 16, 2006, 07:37:59 AM
who's that in the pic, waller?  Man he went deep as hell.

Robert that my friend is a great man indeed..    "The Blond Bomber"  , "Mr.California"     Mr.Dave Draper

He routinely Squatted that way his entire career. 30+ years. He peaked out at 550+ for reps and up to 405+ for reps in Front Squats.

Check out Dave's website and enjoy the ride.
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: pumpster on March 16, 2006, 08:34:00 AM
Quote
-Better balance.
-Easier on the knees.

actually harder on the knees

Draper found the same thing I did in squatting major poundages for years-the block helps for balance and is easier on the knees.
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: JPM on March 16, 2006, 01:27:31 PM
I would assume that Draper, amoung many others who understand BB'ing, used a block under his heels for more quad development and to reduce the  involvement of the arse/hips out of the exercise. I wouldn't believe that one of the main reasons would be for balance. Flatfooted squats will tend to build the glutes more and BB'ers of his era, and present, do not want a large wide arse. Flat footed squats will increase the flexability/strength of the ankles and calves, to a lesser degree, which most athletes favor for their sports.

As I suggested before, if you have a potentional for a weaken knee structure than squating on a block may not be for you. Only time and a increased workload will tell. If your knees are normal and do become stronger the more you squat, than extra heavy squating should not be a problem. So a general statement that block squating is easier on the knees is not always correct. Actually it can be very misleading. Good Luck.
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: shiftedShapes on March 16, 2006, 01:29:57 PM
.
Draper found the same thing I did in squatting major poundages for years-the block helps for balance and is easier on the knees.

Both of you must exist outside of the laws of our universe.  The Block will put more shearing force on the knees.

Learn how to squat without it.  Box squatting might help in teaching you how to sit back.  Really though you probably need to work on your hip flexibility
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: pumpster on March 16, 2006, 02:36:24 PM
LOL, you've figured it all out and we exist outside of YOUR silly conclusions. That's too funny, you can't make that up. We have a lot to learn from someone with such an ego.

I've tried both ways before concluding that the block is a HUGE help and have used that method for about 2.5 decades. What the hell do Draper and I know though, in comparison to this genius.  ::)
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: HICKSON on March 16, 2006, 02:51:22 PM
Ok now someone explain to me how to do "hack squats" with a barbell? i thought it could be done on the incline hack machine.

Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: JPM on March 16, 2006, 02:52:36 PM
Actually running, but mostly the short dashes to the quarter mile, put's excessive stress/workload through continues motion over a traveled distance on the joint structure of the knees. Considering this and the volume of stress put upon the knees by rapid continual motion as compaired to  a 8 to 12 rep squat either on a block or flatfooted. Also consider the harsh angle and flexture of the knee it's self with that increase volume load produced by running. Squating on a 2" block is not nearly as extreme as running, say a 100 meter dash, at the joint flexor/angle of the knee. Squating, it what ever form, will build sturdyness and strength within the knee area. As with everything else, there can be a potentional for weakness and injury for anyone weither they ever do any squating in their whole life or not. Good Luck.
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: pumpster on March 16, 2006, 02:58:32 PM
If you have access to a hack machine, forget barbell hacks. They're uncomfortable, less effective by far on the desired areas, and the positioning and grip impede the amount of weight and form that can be used.
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: JPM on March 16, 2006, 03:27:52 PM
BB Hacks (on a 2" block or not) are one of the more superior exercises for building the quads. It is one of my favorite exercise. Think of BB Hacks as reverse DL's with more focus on the leg's themselves than the regular DL. As with the DL, it also affects the traps & back strongly. Machine Hacks, though good, don't seem to have that mass building quaility the BB Hack, a very affective compound movement, does. For building the quads think of BB Hacks, front squats and regular squats in that order. Good Luck.
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: pumpster on March 16, 2006, 04:23:06 PM
The best quad/power builders, below; very simple. Also try the JPM "pussy" leg workout for anyone interested in a less effective, less intense workout (don't go to failure either, don't grunt, try not to sweat):

1/ Box squats
2/ Leg press
3/ Hack machine

Hack machine is far better, doesn't put pressure on the lower back and grip. What JPM completely misses as usual, the emphasis on barbell hacks is centered around the knee and teardrop area-not the desired area, and a nice way to have knee problems. Machine hacks avoid knee aggrevation and target the middle of the quads.

Go nuts, work those suckers, but whatever you do, don't make any noise. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: haider on March 16, 2006, 04:26:37 PM
I'm sure you pics as proof of your 'platzian' thighs too  :)
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: pumpster on March 16, 2006, 05:04:33 PM
"Hater" is a more appropriate name. ::)
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: haider on March 18, 2006, 09:47:15 AM
wtf, hater? LOL! I jsut asked for proof of your claim. When did I "hate on you"?
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: pumpster on March 18, 2006, 10:37:50 AM
I don't have to prove anything. Everything I've said is common sense-to some, like oh, top bodybuilders. I've probably been squatting longer than you've been alive.
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: haider on March 18, 2006, 12:47:03 PM
You dont have to be that defensive. What I asked has nothing to do with your reccomendation of certain exercises. I'm not doubting whether your ways work or not, I just asked you to prove that you have 'platzian' thighs. And its not like I was being rude or anything, you could have just declined to post a pic, its as simple as that.

-edited for respect
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: candidate2025 on March 18, 2006, 01:04:54 PM
The best quad/power builders, below; very simple. Also try the JPM "pussy" leg workout for anyone interested in a less effective, less intense workout (don't go to failure either, don't grunt, try not to sweat):

1/ Box squats
2/ Leg press
3/ Hack machine

Hack machine is far better, doesn't put pressure on the lower back and grip. What JPM completely misses as usual, the emphasis on barbell hacks is centered around the knee and teardrop area-not the desired area, and a nice way to have knee problems. Machine hacks avoid knee aggrevation and target the middle of the quads.

Go nuts, work those suckers, but whatever you do, don't make any noise. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh
what are box squats, pumpster?
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: haider on March 18, 2006, 01:10:06 PM
I'm no pumpster but box squats are just that, squatting to a box. You can squat to boxes of various heights, high box squats, parallel box squats, low box squats, etc
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: candidate2025 on March 18, 2006, 01:17:37 PM
I'm no pumpster but box squats are just that, squatting to a box. You can squat to boxes of various heights, high box squats, parallel box squats, low box squats, etc
oh....the football team uses those.  always that they wer just for pussies......they work better than normal  squats?
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: monster triceps on March 18, 2006, 02:32:15 PM
No, you do box squats only if you don't know how to squat correctly.
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: candidate2025 on March 18, 2006, 02:44:20 PM
No, you do box squats only if you don't know how to squat correctly.
that is what i though too
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: pumpster on March 18, 2006, 03:15:35 PM
Man that's dumb logic.
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: monster triceps on March 18, 2006, 03:17:55 PM
Man you don't know anything about training.

Do your homework.
Now that's real.













TRI
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: pumpster on March 18, 2006, 03:21:59 PM
Other than showing profuse love for Milosevic, this guy has absolutely NOTHING to say except to complain. I think this is sarcasm under another name, probably about 5 names by now.
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: monster triceps on March 18, 2006, 03:25:32 PM
Other than showing us he's in love with Milosevic, this guy has absolutely NOTHING to say except to complain. I think this is sarcasm under another name, probably about 5 names by now.

More complaining, why don't you go out and copy somebodys hard-written article and post it as your own, meanwhile I will be giving real advice.
Nobody take this 17-year old clown seriously.
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: pumpster on March 18, 2006, 03:26:26 PM
More emptiness. He gets off on spreading negativity, makes him feel better, when it works..
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: candidate2025 on March 18, 2006, 03:53:45 PM
Man that's dumb logic.
well i asked you what they were and you didnt respond...so what else should i think? looking t someone squat to a box...it just seems as if it would release tension on the quadds, therefore slowing gains.
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: haider on March 18, 2006, 05:56:59 PM
Theyre not done only to learn how to Squat. Sure they can help you learn how to Squat by sitting back, but thats not the sole purpose.
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: Odinn on March 19, 2006, 08:13:09 PM
No, you do box squats only if you don't know how to squat correctly.

That's bullshit. The crew at Westside Barbell do box squats way more than they do regular squats, and they know how to squat.
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: Robert E. Lee on March 19, 2006, 09:55:39 PM
could someone go indepth into box squat explanation?
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: monster triceps on March 20, 2006, 01:11:04 AM
That's bullshit. The crew at Westside Barbell do box squats way more than they do regular squats, and they know how to squat.

And you obviously don't know why.

1) Training on a box will allow you to sit back onto the box to a point where your shins are past perpendicular to the floor. This places all the stress on the squatting muscles (hips, glutes, lower back and hamstrings.) When you can increase the stress on these muscles and lower the stress on the quads, then you'll be ready to see your squat poundages start moving.

2) Restoration is another major advantage of box squatting. You can train more often on a box when compared to free squatting. According to Louie Simmons, the original members of Westside Barbell in Culver City, California, used to perform box squats three times a week. Currently at Westside we train the box squat every Friday for our dynamic workout and occasionally on Monday's maximal effort workouts. If you're new to box squats, I suggest you do them once per week.

3) When performing box squats you never have to guess how low you're squatting. It'll always be the same. Think about it: when most people start adding weight to the bar, their squats get higher and higher. You see this all the time in any gym you go to. They look good with the light weights, then begin doing quarter squats when the weight gets heavy. With box squats, you'll always go low enough.

4) The last reason to box squat is to reinforce good squat technique. Many times for the intermediate or beginning squatter, the hamstrings aren't yet developed and "sitting back" into a squat is impossible without falling over backward. To teach these athletes how to free squat properly would take months. The squat wouldn't look right until the hamstrings and glute strength increases. Why wait two or three months? Put them on the box and you'll have them squatting properly within five minutes. Within one month the hamstrings will begin to kick in because of the added stress of sitting back on the box.

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=298dt2
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: Odinn on March 20, 2006, 05:01:42 AM
Um, what happened to "No, you do box squats only if you don't know how to squat correctly."? 

Seems like that cut and paste job there gave two more reasons why you should box squat other than if you don't know how to do it.

And since I'm familiar with Westside Barbell and how they train, how the hell did you come to the conclusion that I'm unfamiliar with the benefits of box squatting? Monster logic  ;D
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: dontknowit on March 20, 2006, 05:08:44 AM
Frontsquat,
the best excersise to make ass-to-ground squats. Better balance, and way more natural then the backsquat.
I also makes you feel what kind of muscle you use with squat.

Greatest disadvantage,
you can't lift a shitload of weight, cause your delts and neck aren't build for it. Olympic style could be an option, but I haven't mastered that technique yet.
Title: Re: Barbell squat
Post by: gtbro1 on March 20, 2006, 11:03:05 AM
It is for balance. When you are tall it is very hard to go below parallell  without tipping forward. It helps you keep your back more upright and not bend fwd at the waist.It helps me a lot to do this.