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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Matt on March 20, 2006, 12:48:39 PM
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I think I understand the ironage standard now. ???
Whoever is the most handsome and looks the best in the relaxed pose wins.
Bob Paris being first completely neglects the fact that Lee Haney destroys him in pretty well every pose. From side chest to rear lat spread, to most muscular, etc. Because Bob has the kind of physique which looks pretty or more moderate just standing there, he wins I guess. ???
No, no, I'm not mocking that standard. It's a good board over there (lots of excellent pics), but I think by that standard, things being judged are:
- hairline
- teeth (straight and white)
- height
- face
- lack of muscle mass
E.g., Branch Warren would come dead last on that list since he's short, bald, homely looking, beet red, and too heavily muscled. He certainly doesn't have cover model looks like most of the top 20 FLEX listed.
I left the mag at home, but I suspect Shawn Perrine is behind it somehow. ;D
When you think about it, it kind of makes sense. Of all the physiques presented in the top 20, I would rather look like most of them over any of the guys winning today. I would rather look like Bob Paris or Frank Zane than Branch by a longshot, but does that mean he is the superior pro? What I'm saying is that I agree with the list, but is that really what bodybuilding is about?
If the standard is who looks the best, why not put Brad Pitt's physique from Troy ahead of Paris? I guess I just don't get where the consistency is in the standard of that article.
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/bobparis/bobparis12.jpg)
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Didn't Bob do Gay for Pay?? Maybe that is the reason he placed so well.. Shawn Perine probably liked the rides..
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I think I understand the ironage standard now. ???
Whoever is the most handsome and looks the best in the relaxed pose wins.
No, no, I'm not mocking that standard. It's a good board over there (lots of excellent pics), but I think by that standard, things being judged are:
- hairline
- teeth (straight and white)
- height
- face
- lack of muscle mass
Yes you are!
For example, Bob was 6'0" and 230 lbs. in contest shape and pretty completely and proportionally developed from head to toe. He certainly wasn't considered "lacking in muscle mass" in his era although he was no Lee Haney, to be sure. Bob was so balanced that no one bodypart stood out as being overpoweringly strong or weak.
None of the tongue-in-cheek "criteria" you mentioned had much at all to do with why Paris was considered a great BBer in his time.
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Didn't Bob do Gay for Pay?? Maybe that is the reason he placed so well.. Shawn Perine probably liked the rides..
Now how in the Hell can you do gay for pay when you are openly gay!!!!!
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Now how in the Hell can you do gay for pay when you are openly gay!!!!!
lol are you serious?
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Now how in the Hell can you do gay for pay when you are openly gay!!!!!
Very true. In that case.....gay-every-day!
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Yes you are!
For example, Bob was 6'0" and 230 lbs. in contest shape and pretty completely and proportionally developed from head to toe. He certainly wasn't considered "lacking in muscle mass" in his era although he was no Lee Haney, to be sure. Bob was so balanced that no one bodypart stood out as being overpoweringly strong or weak.
None of the tongue-in-cheek "criteria" you mentioned had much at all to do with why Paris was considered a great BBer in his time.
I'm disagreeing with the standard in terms of sheer bodybuilding judging criteria. I actually like the standard myself but that doesn't make it appropriate for a bodybuilding stage.
Like I said, if Bob is #1, why not just take it to the extreme and put Mark Wahlberg in Fear even ahead of him? Are we going based on who can attract the most chicks, or is this bodybuilding? ???
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I like Matt's conspircy theories lol the only problems I have with that list is Steve Reeves isn't first and Charles Cairmonte placed higher than Samir ???
and why didn't a pre-gut Ronnie make the list ::) ;)
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and why didn't a pre-gut Ronnie make the list ::) ;)
Because apparently Berry Demay and Lee Labrada look better. ???
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I'm disagreeing with the standard in terms of sheer bodybuilding judging criteria. I actually like the standard myself but that doesn't make it appropriate for a bodybuilding stage.
Like I said, if Bob is #1, why not just take it to the extreme and put Mark Wahlberg in Fear even ahead of him? Are we going based on who can attract the most chicks, or is this bodybuilding? ???
You can tell Matt is realitively new to bodybuilding , so you think aesthetic means facial beauty? and thats why Paris is on top of the list? and Mark & Bob have similar physiques? lol yes these two look like carbon copies of each other ::) .
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Didn't Bob do Gay for Pay?? Maybe that is the reason he placed so well.. Shawn Perine probably liked the rides..
No he didn't. I know this for a fact!
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does anyone have the list, or a link to the list?
Just Curious if the pre-gut Ronnie is on it! ;D
seriously though, I would include:
paris
Benfatto
Ray
Flex (pre-oil)
Labrada
Greg Kovacs :)
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Didn't Bob do Gay for Pay??
He did gay for his own enjoyment, you 15 year old cheese ogre.
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lol are you serious?
You didn't know Paris was gay? He even got "married" to his partner and ever since he came out he was black balled by bb community. Had a great physique though.
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You didn't know Paris was gay? He even got "married" to his partner and ever since he came out he was black balled by bb community. Had a great physique though.
He also dated Linda Blair for a while..go figure!
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The list
1. Bob Paris
2. Steve Reeves
3. Frank Zane
4. Labrada
5. Wheeler
6. Charles Clairmonte
7. Milos
8. deMey
9. Samir
10. Makkawy
11. Shawn Ray
12. Cormier
13. Thierry Pastel
14. Mendenhall
15. Haney
16. Nubret
17. Padilla
18. Sergio
19. Sonny Schmidt
20. Melvin Anthony
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nubret should have been top 3 and reeves should have been first.
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Number one
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The list
1. Bob Paris
2. Steve Reeves
3. Frank Zane
4. Labrada
5. Wheeler
6. Charles Clairmonte
7. Milos
8. deMey
9. Samir
10. Makkawy
11. Shawn Ray
12. Cormier
13. Thierry Pastel
14. Mendenhall
15. Haney
16. Nubret
17. Padilla
18. Sergio
19. Sonny Schmidt
20. Melvin Anthony
Excellent list.
By "aesthetic" in this case is meant, those physiques would not look out of place if they had been carved out of marble and were on display in an art museum. Even IF the heads were chopped off, before someone else brings that up.
Although that raises an interesting point. It seems that people's faces often match their physiques. Why is that? Guys with gnarly, ugly physiques often have a face to match and the same seems to hold true for guys with more classical, aesthetic physiques.
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Number two
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Number three
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Number four
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Number five
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Number six
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Number seven
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Number eight
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The writer of this article, Shawn Perine from Flex Magazine, will join us on Pro Bodybuilding Weekly to discuss the Top 20 List. (8pm est)
www.ProBodybuildingWeekly.com (http://www.ProBodybuildingWeekly.com)
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Number nine
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I think Shawn Ray is more aesthetic than Flex Wheeler
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Number ten
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Number eleven
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Number twelve
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1. i'd put melvin higher up that list.
2. i'd include arnold somewhere.
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Number tirthteen
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Number fourteen
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Number fifteen
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these theme stories are so boring. it's like people magazine Sexiest Man Alive series.
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Number sixteen
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Number seventeen
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Haney should be higher.
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thats a great shot of reeves def. between him & paris at the top. #13 pic great tris & nice pose. samir bannout was no slouch either nor was mohamed makawy.
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Number eighteen
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Number nineteen
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Number Twenty-one:
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/ronniecolemanontheroad/114.JPG)
8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
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thats a great shot of reeves def. between him & paris at the top. #13 pic great tris & nice pose. samir bannout was no slouch either nor was mohamed makawy. all in all decent list. first bb list arnold isn't #1 or even on it for that matter.
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Number Twenty-one:
(http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/ronniecolemanontheroad/114.JPG)
8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
WHY are you bringing that shit into this thead??? jesus you never quit do you/
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WHY are you bringing that shit into this thead??? jesus you never quit do you/
you have no sense of humor.
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Number twenty
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you have no sense of humor.
Highjacker ;) I recall Hulkster going on about how aesthetic a pre-gut Ronnie was lol what happened to your hero?
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does anyone else think that at least some of the following might have been overlooked?:
-Robby Robinson
-Brian Buchanan
-Aaron Baker
-tony pearson
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thierry pastel has some big full guns
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does anyone else think that at least some of the following might have been overlooked?:
-Robby Robinson
-Brian Buchanan
-Aaron Baker
-tony pearson
Pre-gut Ronnie !!
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FLEX magazine...? What's that?
Number eleven
He deserves it... but don't feed his ego! >:(
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thierry pastel has some big full guns
Yeah he was awesome , overlooked in a big way .
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Yeah he was awesome , overlooked in a big way .
Wow he looks almost like Wheeler but without the esicline.
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Pre-gut Ronnie !!
even you have to admit that the pre-gut Ronnie might have been more aesthetic than Matt Mendenhall. I think he is out of place on this list. A little too blocky.
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does anyone else think that at least some of the following might have been overlooked?:
-Robby Robinson
-Brian Buchanan
-Aaron Baker
-tony pearson
Hulk Robbie should have been on that list..... I think other than that it looks pretty accurate
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even you have to admit that the pre-gut Ronnie might have been more aesthetic than Matt Mendenhall. I think he is out of place on this list. A little too blocky.
LMFAO at Mendenhall being blocky , Ronnie isn't anywhere hear him , this is the guy Lee Haney feared .
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Those lists are so arbitrary-Ron & Segio most aesthetic? Realistically Nubret & Padilla have to be at the top of any list of aesthetic BBs.
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Wheres Arnold? Yet Sergio made it
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I agree! Arnold numero uno!!
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even you have to admit that the pre-gut Ronnie might have been more aesthetic than Matt Mendenhall. I think he is out of place on this list. A little too blocky.
Hulk come on!!! Mendenhall blocky!!??
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I think people are sick of Arnold being mentioned every issue in Flex but I would put him above Charles Clairmonte ???
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Sonny Schmidt aesthetic??? ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!!
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I think of today's BB maybe David Henry should be mentioned. He has a very nice aesthetic shape...short though. I think Jay from 2001 could have been on the list. Full and very symmetrical.
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LMFAO at Mendenhall being blocky , Ronnie isn't anywhere hear him , this is the guy Lee Haney feared .
okay, but I have seen some shots of Mendenhall that were really blocky.
Pehaps during his "comeback"??
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Branch Warren and Bob Paris are perfect examples, and I have no idea why that is.
Perhaps the ammount of gear they're taking?
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Writers KNOW that readers eat up "top 20" lists on virtually anything, as proven by this thread. Whether the list makes any sense is secondary-in fact the less sense it makes, like this top 20 aesthetic that's not very good, the more controversy & interest.
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how this guy didn't make the list I'll never know
SONS OF BITCHES >:(
(http://perso.wanadoo.fr/topmuscu/images/Kevin%20Levrone/levrone13.jpg)
(http://www.metu.edu.tr/~guney/bb/kevin/levrone2.jpg)
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I like this one.
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how this guy didn't make the list I'll never know
SONS OF BITCHES >:(
(http://perso.wanadoo.fr/topmuscu/images/Kevin%20Levrone/levrone13.jpg)
(http://www.metu.edu.tr/~guney/bb/kevin/levrone2.jpg)
;D
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that is one aesthetic athlete 8)
E
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that is one aesthetic athlete 8)
E
He's about as "athletic" as this;
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athletic enough to run a good 40 time before losing to a world class sprinter who cheated by using THG
check out battle for the o 96 he was doing all kinds of gymnastic moves
aesthetic and athletic
E
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athletic enough to run a good 40 time before losing to a world class sprinter who cheated by using THG
E
He called out a world record holder on gear(how retarded was that?) he damned near got lapped...LOL!
P.S. Kevin wasn't exactly clean!!
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He called out a world record holder on gear(how retarded was that?) he damned near got lapped...LOL!
P.S. Kevin wasn't exactly clean!!
it doesn't matter how bad he lost (he didn't get lapped) he still is fast
kevin doesn't use drugs to improve his track and field performance plus a guy his size at his height should slow him down if anything AND HE STILL HAD A GOOD 40 TIME
E
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He called out a world record holder on gear(how retarded was that?) he damned near got lapped...LOL!
P.S. Kevin wasn't exactly clean!!
Maybe not, but he was a genetic freak and no doubt could press 325 for reps without exogens.
Other aesthetic physiques:
Where's Vince Commerford?
Where's Louis Fruitas the brazilian ex-pro?
Where's Strydom?
How about Benfatto?
John Hynatsack?
PHIL HILL
Mike Ashley
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Why is reeves even on the list. He is SKINNY compared to the average gym rat these days. His phesique isnt impressive at all, nor is it any more aesthetic then a swimmer.
This is bodybuilding they should atleast have a decent amount of mass.
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Steeve reeves was considered to have perfect aesthetics.
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Scott Markey. The dude on all those covers and from the H.D T.ads, looks just like a modern day reeves!
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Another Scott M pic.
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Wow, I didn't notice at first how much those first two pics are so similar. Just a 40 or 50 year difference between the two. They really do look alike.
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That top 20 list is a load of shit simply because it didnt include the guy below. Judge for yourselves :D
(http://ronnie.cz/_img/Fotogalerie/1437_11_1.jpg)(http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/2004arnoldhansen_13.jpg)
To be fair on Greg though, he once had a good physique (in a freaky way)
(http://www.bbcenter.sk/images/gallery/muzi/greg_kovacs/greg_kovac_02.jpg)
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These guys don't know shit. Vince should defintiely be in there. At least #93948572302
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These guys don't know shit. Vince should defintiely be in there. At least #93948572302
There we go!
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Has there ever been an aesthetic guy that didn't weigh less than a lifeguard?
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the real number 1
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Maybe not, but he was a genetic freak and no doubt could press 325 for reps without exogens.
Other aesthetic physiques:
Where's Vince Commerford? too short & blocky
Where's Louis Fruitas the brazilian ex-pro? lol, legs overpowered his upper body and he had a long torso with short legs
Where's Strydom? maybe
How about Benfatto? also maybe
John Hynatsack? good bodybuilder but it's a bit of a stretch to list him in the top 20 aesthetic physiques of all time
PHIL HILL great bodybuilder but too narrow, not the "classic" physique they had in mind
Mike Ashley again, great bodybuilder but legs lagged a little behind upper body
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These guys don't know shit. Vince should defintiely be in there. At least #93948572302
;D ;D oversite.
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I just don't get the consistency of the list. Is it supposed to be complete aesthetics without regard to mass? In which case as I said, there are definitely pros on the list who should be on it who would be smaller than Steve Reeves.
I think it's just a list of physiques Shawn admired the most for a number of reasons. I don't think you could defend the list using any particular standard. A top 20 mass monster list would be easier (just list the 20 biggest and most shredded pros of all time).
Lots of pros would look as "aesthetic" as Steve Reeves if they just lost 50 pounds of muscle! I'm sure there are some skinnies on this board who could bulk up and look just as "aesthetic" (small) as Frank Zane. Sure, he has a great physique that I would much rather have than any pro out there today - BECAUSE HE ISN'T A MASS FREAK. But I'm not going to say it's because he's "aesthetic". It's because he looks like he's starving compared to pros today who don't look good when it comes to the reasons why I work out (e.g., being healthy, being balanced, and attracting chicks). I remember a dude in a class of mine did a project on the evolution of the look of a bodybuilder and interviewed girls on campus and they all said Zane looked the best when compared to pros from the early days up to Ronnie Coleman. The dude who made the project was a clear juicer and went on about the negative side effects of juice. ::)
I'm sure if pros today trained to actually look attractive to the opposite sex and not build physiques that scream of narcissism and obsession they would also look "aesthetic" (e.g., be 50-100 pounds lighter).
Matt the list is composed without reguard for mass? Cormier competes at 250lbs , Haney 250lbs , Paris 230lbs , Reeves 215lbs , Samir 183lbs at his Olympia win and into the mid eighties he competed at 205lbs , Labrada 175lbs , Makkawy 160lbs , Zane 180lbs , Medenhall was 230lbs , Clairmonte I believe was 230+ lbs , Sergio 240lbs , that list covers all sizes , heights are weights , to say the list is picked without reguard for size isn't accurate , its just there haven't been many examples of truely aesthetic bodybuilders 250lbs + .
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Matt also I laughed at the comment anyone can be just as aesthetic as Reeves all they have to do is drop weight lol Reeves was 6'1" and weighed just 215lbs had a 54" chest and a 29" waist with 18.5" neck , arms and calves , you'd be hard pressed to find ANYONE who can match those proportions , show me one single bodybuilder in the past 60 years 6'1" with a 29" waist impossible !! the likelyhood of another Reeves comming along is astromonically rare .
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My only question is: why the hell isnt yates on the list
[img]
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Matt also I laughed at the comment anyone can be just as aesthetic as Reeves all they have to do is drop weight lol Reeves was 6'1" and weighed just 215lbs had a 54" chest and a 29" waist with 18.5" neck , arms and calves , you'd be hard pressed to find ANYONE who can match those proportions , show me one single bodybuilder in the past 60 years 6'1" with a 29" waist impossible !! the likelyhood of another Reeves comming along is astromonically rare .
Bollocks. Arnolds chest at its biggest was 57" so don't pretend that 54" for reeves is gonna fly chico
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ND, in my opinion none other than LEE HANEY is the yardstick to measure symmetry.
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Bollocks. Arnolds chest at its biggest was 57" so don't pretend that 54" for reeves is gonna fly chico
Arnold's chest wasn't 57 inches, maybe 52 or so which is still huge.
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Bollocks. Arnolds chest at its biggest was 57" so don't pretend that 54" for reeves is gonna fly chico
Actually in the A&E movie, his chest was listed as 58". All of his other measurements went up an inch as well. ::)
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Kovaks on this thread ? Now that's funny. Everyone seems to have a different take on
aesthetics, but I think we would all agree that Kovaks Is not !!!!!
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Aesthetic !
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Not Aesthetic !
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Bollocks. Arnolds chest at its biggest was 57" so don't pretend that 54" for reeves is gonna fly chico
Steve's measurements were done cold as well he never pumped-up before taking them and Steve's measurements are legit .
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pastel did have nice arms and good build. yo adonis your def. right about dave draper, the o.g. california golden boy should be on that list & not too far after paris or reeves.
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ND, in my opinion none other than LEE HANEY is the yardstick to measure symmetry.
Steve Reeves is the yardstick in which bodybuilding perfection is measured by and has continued to be for the past 50 years !!
Bow down to the greatest bodybuilder who ever lived !!!
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Matt also I laughed at the comment anyone can be just as aesthetic as Reeves all they have to do is drop weight lol Reeves was 6'1" and weighed just 215lbs had a 54" chest and a 29" waist with 18.5" neck , arms and calves , you'd be hard pressed to find ANYONE who can match those proportions , show me one single bodybuilder in the past 60 years 6'1" with a 29" waist impossible !! the likelyhood of another Reeves comming along is astromonically rare .
How did Reeves train? And was he natural?
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How did Reeves train? And was he natural?
There is much debate over his status as natural , I believe Steve he said he never heard of steroids until the 1960s and he never touched them , his last contest was in 1950 he retired at the age of 24 !! because he won every single major bodybuilding title .
He trained 3 days a week with 8-12 reps per exercise and he did if I recall only 3 sets for a bodypart he lifted moderately heavy and always stress great form .
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brutal quad thickness. ;D
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There is much debate over his status as natural , I believe Steve he said he never heard of steroids until the 1960s and he never touched them , his last contest was in 1950 he retired at the age of 24 !! because he won every single major bodybuilding title .
He trained 3 days a week with 8-12 reps per exercise and he did if I recall only 3 sets for a bodypart he lifted moderately heavy and always stress great form .
Thanks! I read somewhere that his neck, arms, and calves measurements all where the same size. But from those pictures his arms don't look as big.
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Quote
" Steve Reeves' physique was perfect. Fantastic physique , Not that huge body, but it was so perfect , so lean , that it became something incredible. Because every muscle , every tendon was perfect from his calves to his head . Verygood proportions , tremendous symmetry . And such a tremendous looking man. Well this man has been good looking , I think , since the day he came out of his mom . "
Sergio Oliva Ironman May 1995
Quote
" Steve Reeves was a pure bodybuilder , that is , he trained specifically to shape his body a certain way , and he was buildt like a modern day Adonis. He was the most handsome , beautiful man that I had ever met in my life . " Beautiful " is not a word you usally use in describing a man , but in the case it applies. Even myself - and I'm ungodly masculine and hetrosexual - believe me , if he was in the room I could not keep my eyes off the guy . "
Bill Pearl Ironman May 1995
Quote
" I don't think there is one chance in 50 trillion that the particular mix of hereditary genes that produced the product we see in Steve Reeves will ever occur in combination again. Steve was a very unusal bodybuilder. He had the overall beauty that no other bodybuilder has ever been able to achieve. I had the occasion to work with , photographically , most of the top bodybuilders in the world. But when the good Lord made Steve Reeves , he threw the mold away. There has never been another man , as we go back through all written word and graphic representation, who...ever came out like Steve did. He is fromm another galaxie.
" I'll never forget one evening when Steve accompanied Jack LaLanne and I to a resturant. When Steve entered the room, everyone stopped eating. You could hear the knives and forks drop. Some people froze with their mouths open. They looked at him in amazenent, as if he were a man from another world . Of course ,99-percent of them had never heard of Steve Reeves and thought he was a movie star. And this was the case wherever Steve set foot: there was admiration from the men , the women , and even the little children. "
" Lets face it : there is only one Steve Reeves. He's an original. I consider it my privilege to have been alive in that period of time when I had the association with Steve. I know as the years roll by, and we are all gone, Steve will live on in the history as the greatest of all time in the field of phsyical culture, in the addition to being one of the finest human beings ever created. "
Russ Warner
Quote
" Dr Avard Fairbanks , a Guggenheim Fellow and one of the world's leading art figures, is renown as the world's greatest sculptor of Lincoln, and is the executor of over 90 major works on various subjects, includingthe Great Chicago Lincoln; The fighting Sioux Monument; the Poney Express Monument; The Pioneer Faimly Group Monument; and the statue of Lycurgus,still displayed in Sparta Greece.
Dr Fairbanks comments on Steve Reeves ; " The design of the human system is to bring oneself on line with the same harmonies that regulate the universe. It is these underlying forms and harmonies that elevate man's life and man's thinking. Steve Reeves is the epitome of a man bringing his physique into harmony with the universe he is a part of. He's the grandest example I have ever seen of Michelangelo's dream come true. It is unfortunate that Steve Reeves was not living during the Renaissance period, for the Masters would have worn their hands to the bone making statues of him. "
Avard Fairbanks Sculptor
Steve Reeves made an impact , greatest bodybuilder ever .
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Thanks for the info ND! He sounds like a great guy! You got anymore stories/pics?
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Genetic freak at 15 !! and I believe 18
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Reeves had great genetics, but Wheeler shits all over him
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Would'nt reeves have been forgotten if he had had an ugly face?
But as somebody said earlier, with a well proportionnate body comes usually a pretty face.
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I agree with matt. It sounds stupid but Steeve Reeves would not have been as big if It were not for his good looks, and being In the movies. Flex was better.
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Reeves had great genetics, but Wheeler shits all over him
Reeves at 15..... If you knew about symmetry you would know Reeves had better symmetry than wheeler. Arms, neck and CALVES all matched tiny 29 inch waist that would have been 28 if he was ripped by todays standards. 6'2 with a better structure. Flex had huge arms no calves whatsoever and was narrow as hell.
Reeves had better genetics. Look at him at 15. you give him a cycle of what flex was on and he would make wheeler look like the joke he turned into after the ninjas car jacked him and he fell into an oil reserve.
Yes flex was Way bigger. Reeves was natural and flex was on juice since like what 17 lol. Raw genetics alone reeves is better
just look at the pic... toss one up of flex at 15 no juice. 120 soaking wet. Flex was amazing but raw genetics Reeves has him beat
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Reeves at 15..... If you knew about symmetry you would know Reeves had better symmetry than wheeler. Arms neck and calves all matached tiny 29 inch waist that would have been 28 if he was ripped by todays standards. 6'2 with a better structure. Flex had huge arms no calves whatsoever and was narrow as hell.
Reeves had better genetics. Look at him at 15. you give him a cycle of what flex was on and he would make wheeler look like the joke he turned into after the ninjas car jacked him and he feel into an oil reserve.
Yes flex was Way bigger. Reeves was natural and flex was on juice since like what 17 lol. Raw genetics alone reeves is better
just look at the pic... toss one up of flex at 15 no juice. 120 soaking wet
who is to say Reeves would have kept his aesthetics at a higher weight?
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True.
You make a good point with that so I cannot say for sure his genetics where better going against that argument.
But if both had no drugs available who's genetics would you rather have?
I personally would take Reeves as flex was an admitted ectomorph before the juice. Don't get me wrong Flex was amazing i just think Reeves had some serious genetics while flex had amazing drug response.
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True.
You make a good point with that so I cannot say for sure his genetics where better going against that argument.
But if both had no drugs available who's genetics would you rather have?
I personally would take Reeves as flex was an admitted ectomorph before the juice. Don't get me wrong Flex was amazing i just think Reeves had some serious genetics
All true, and I don't know if Flex was on the juice from day 1, but I think on his hardbody video there is footage of Flex from like 86 or 87, he was small, but aesthetic as all hell. Symmetrical and ripped.
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All true, and I don't know if Flex was on the juice from day 1, but I think on his hardbody video there is footage of Flex from like 86 or 87, he was small, but aesthetic as all hell. Symmetrical and ripped.
I would totally agree with you if Flex has the calves to match the rest of him. He was amazing no doubt I just think on raw genetics Reeves had him edged out. Although you made a good point with Reeves keeping his symmetry with the drugs.
I also read that Flex admittedly juiced since day one of his training and this is why I made the comment of him juicing so hard. Can anyone confirm this I cannot remember where I read this.
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Well this guy Is 5'8 215lbs. What was Reeves hight and weight.
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Wow, they really do look alike. Even In the face.
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Sorry, I was trying to post these two together. This dude should make a movie as the new Steve Reeves.
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Well this guy Is 5'8 215lbs. What was Reeves hight and weight.
6'1 215
way taller. That guy look good though, not as good of a structure as reeves but looks good non the less
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This my friends in my book is #1 all time. The ultimate combination of mass and aesthetics. If there was anyone I could look like, any time period, it's flex 1993.
(http://picsorban.com/upload/flex29pq.jpg)
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This my friends in my book is #1 all time. The ultimate combination of mass and aesthetics. If there was anyone I could look like, any time period, it's flex 1993.
(http://picsorban.com/upload/flex29pq.jpg)
wrong head and wrong hair
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there are some obvious homos in this thread.
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Wow. Flex's legs look awesome.
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Well Dennis james looks freakin great here.
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I think it was Shawn's goal to get a lot of talk about this article and free publicity for FLEX.
Goal achieved. ;)
Its no differant than you starting threads on sites and trying to get traffic to your site. ;)
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Its just a shame flex magazine has rotted to pure shit. Top twenty this, top twenty that, how arnold built his chest (the majority of the content was utter bullshit with regards to the poundages claimed and the author knew it yet wrote it anyway), how arnold built his arms etc etc. Oh my word, not another arnold front cover.
McGough + Perine = garbage.
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Well Dennis james looks freakin great here.
Looks great! :o
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Ok : Back to what this thread was really about. I think everyone's Idea of what aesthetics Is, seems to be different. It however should not be about body weight at all.
I think you can be aesthetic at 150 lbs or 350 lbs ! It Is about your structure and the way an Individual has distributed muscle throughout his or her frame. For example, wide
clavicles and narrow hips should be the basis of good aesthetics, but in my opinion if the amount of muscle one has is not evenly distributed, to me that person Is not aesthetic. For example, I think Derek Farnsworth, albeit very small Is much more aesthetic than say Arnold ! ( I know ill hear sh...t from the Ironage guys ) A better example of what to me is pretty close to perfect aesthetics would be an In-shape Chris Cormier ! Wether you like him or not, he was far more aesthetic than Arnold and even more than what seems to be the poster boy for aesthetics " Steeve Reeves " Good looking does not make you aesthetic. I also think that having your arms, calves and neck be the same size is not very aesthetic. To me It doesn't look right. Once again, just because Chris Cormier is 45 pound heavier and 4 inches or so shorter does not make him any less aesthetic. To me it is the Ideal standard for what aesthetics should be ! You Ironagers will have to just deal with It ! **** AESTHETICS **** The perfect X frame not Y frame !
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Ok : Back to what this thread was really about. I think everyone's Idea of what aesthetics Is, seems to be different. It however should not be about body weight at all.
I think you can be aesthetic at 150 lbs or 350 lbs ! It Is about your structure and the way an Individual has distributed muscle throughout his or her frame. For example, wide
clavicles and narrow hips should be the basis of good aesthetics, but in my opinion if the amount of muscle one has is not evenly distributed, to me that person Is not aesthetic. For example, I think Derek Farnsworth, albeit very small Is much more aesthetic than say Arnold ! ( I know ill hear sh...t from the Ironage guys ) A better example of what to me is pretty close to perfect aesthetics would be an In-shape Chris Cormier ! Wether you like him or not, he was far more aesthetic than Arnold and even more than what seems to be the poster boy for aesthetics " Steeve Reeves " Good looking does not make you aesthetic. I also think that having your arms, calves and neck be the same size is not very aesthetic. To me It doesn't look right. Once again, just because Chris Cormier is 45 pound heavier and 4 inches or so shorter does not make him any less aesthetic. To me it is the Ideal standard for what aesthetics should be ! You Ironagers will have to just deal with It ! **** AESTHETICS **** The perfect X frame not Y frame !
Reeves is considered the benchmark for aesthetics because he was way ahead of his time and he was leaps & bounds above his contemporaries and his overall structure in my opinion hasn't been seen since
And aesthetics cover the weight extremes from a 160lb Makkway all the way up to a 260lb Cormier , I've personally said that aesthetics doesn't have a weight limit , however we just haven't seen a guy who is over lets say 260lbs and retain their aesthetics , perhaps in the future we'll see it but thus far the limit seems to be with Cormier & Haney
And I don't know why you're trying to turn this into an Ironage/modern age debate , Cormier is on the list and rightly so , I think very highly of Cormier's phsyique and maintain that given the right condition he could beat Coleman , but aesthetics have taken a backseat to freaky size
And the arms , neck and calves all the same size is the Greek Ideal , its very hard to achive this and it looks much better than 23" arms 20" neck and 18" calves , one of the aspects of aesthetics is muscle balance & proportion , to negelct this is to neglect the whole .
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how do you get your neck bigger. my calfs and arms are 18 and my neck is a 16..
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NarcissisticDeity : I couldn't agree with you more. I made the Ironage comment only because It is usually them who turns it Into a Ironage vs Modern era debate. I said that to do just the opposite and not turn this Into that. I have great respect for the bodybuilders of that era. Who wouldn't. It's just to me that ( And you said it yourself )
that It is not about bodyweight, It is about the Individual, regardless of era.
Peace.
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A few more of CC and great aesthetics.
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Padilla????? That's a joke and a half.
Most aesthetic lawn gnome maybe.
Where is Arnold? What a joke.
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LMFAO at Mendenhall being blocky , Ronnie isn't anywhere hear him , this is the guy Lee Haney feared .
Let's see!!
Haney won the Nationals, the Universe, the Night of Champions, placed 3rd at his first Olympia appearance and won at every other one since then.
And he fears Mendenhall (who never turned pro) because..........
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Padilla????? That's a joke and a half.
Most aesthetic lawn gnome maybe.
Where is Arnold? What a joke.
At least, they didn't include the mushrooms ;D .
What I don't understand is why Schwarzenegger is not on that list but Matt Mendenhall is. I thought this was an "all-time" list. You would think that means those who'v competed at the highest level. Every other competitor has competed at the Mr. Olympia (except Reeves, who retired long before the Olympia came into existence; but Reeves has the Mr. Universe under his belt). Even if you don't make him #1, The Oak belongs on in that company of aesthetics physiques, especially if you're going to include Sergio Oliva.
To leave Schwarzenegger out yet place a guy who didn't even win the Nationals on that list is a bit screwy.
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Reeves is considered the benchmark for aesthetics because he was way ahead of his time and he was leaps & bounds above his contemporaries and his overall structure in my opinion hasn't been seen since
And aesthetics cover the weight extremes from a 160lb Makkway all the way up to a 260lb Cormier , I've personally said that aesthetics doesn't have a weight limit , however we just haven't seen a guy who is over lets say 260lbs and retain their aesthetics , perhaps in the future we'll see it but thus far the limit seems to be with Cormier & Haney
And I don't know why you're trying to turn this into an Ironage/modern age debate , Cormier is on the list and rightly so , I think very highly of Cormier's phsyique and maintain that given the right condition he could beat Coleman , but aesthetics have taken a backseat to freaky size
And the arms , neck and calves all the same size is the Greek Ideal , its very hard to achive this and it looks much better than 23" arms 20" neck and 18" calves , one of the aspects of aesthetics is muscle balance & proportion , to negelct this is to neglect the whole .
Numbers shmumbers, Cormier has a prettier bod than Reeves' skinny ass. A million guys these days can match up to Reeves. Respect for starting the trend so long ago and everything, but subjectively judging the actual physiques of these men shows that Cormier, Flex and Ray have better lines AND some actual muscle!!!!!!
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Numbers shmumbers, Cormier has a prettier bod than Reeves' skinny ass. A million guys these days can match up to Reeves. Respect for starting the trend so long ago and everything, but subjectively judging the actual physiques of these men shows that Cormier, Flex and Ray have better lines AND some actual muscle!!!!!!
I would tend to agree with you. I have looked at the list over and over again. I think the top 5 is BS, those guys are living in the past and give it too my importance. You have to look at the pictures objectively. I am not diminishing the accomplishments of the past....
To me this is perfection!!
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I would tend to agree with you. I have looked at the list over and over again. I think the top 5 is BS, those guys are living in the past and give it too my importance. You have to look at the pictures objectively. I am not diminishing the accomplishments of the past....
To me this is perfection!!
Certainly better proportioned than Flex Wheeler ever was, and more muscular.
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Certainly better proportioned than Flex Wheeler ever was, and more muscular.
That would explain why Flex beat him every time they went head to head
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That would explain why Flex beat him every time they went head to head
Flex beat him, but he was never as well proportioned, or as large. What part of that do you dispute?
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That would explain why Flex beat him every time they went head to head
Except for one instance: The 1995 Mr. Olympia. Cormier placed 6th; Wheeler placed 8th.
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Two things;
first of all, Bob Paris is gay,
all the talk about equel rights and stuff, nice, but being gat is not normal, and shouldn't stand as a rolemodel. He should be placed second.
Second,
I think weider is feeling the pressure of commerce and slowly is pushing there opinion to BBfans. Athletes should have a better physique. It started it out with guidelines for women, the can't come in dry as in the past, and know it's slowly the men's turn.
Monster exit, enter physique.
If we want swimmers, we will follow the Olympics. This is BB, the biggest with the best physique wins. Not a dwarf with muscles, or a swimmer with a sixpack.
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Two things;
first of all, Bob Paris is gay,
all the talk about equel rights and stuff, nice, but being gat is not normal, and shouldn't stand as a rolemodel. He should be placed second.
Second,
I think weider is feeling the pressure of commerce and slowly is pushing there opinion to BBfans. Athletes should have a better physique. It started it out with guidelines for women, the can't come in dry as in the past, and know it's slowly the men's turn.
Monster exit, enter physique.
If we want swimmers, we will follow the Olympics. This is BB, the biggest with the best physique wins. Not a dwarf with muscles, or a swimmer with a sixpack.
First of all, this isn't a role model list, per se. It's a list of most aesthetic physiques. Based on that (and that alone), Bob Paris belongs on this list, regardless of his homosexual lifestyle.
Second, where on Earth do you get this "swimmer" stuff. A guy who's six feet tall and 230 lbs ripped is FAR from a swimmer. Arnold Schwarzenegger, at his peak, was 240 lbs, at 6'2". I certainly don't consider him a "swimmer". I doubt you'll find many who do.
Need I remind you that Frank Zane, who is much smaller than Paris, has three Mr. Olympia titles to his credit. So the "biggest" part of your "biggest with the best physique" statement doesn't quite work.
There's room in bodybuilding for all types of physiques. Part of the reason, bodybuilding has suffered as of late is because of this brazen insistence that its participants be either all "monsters" or all "aesthetic". That's part of the reason why steroid abuse has gone wild in bodybuilding. Some people think that a 6', 230-lb. ripped bodybuilder is a "swimmer".
Bodybuilding is about balance, size plus proportion; mass plus symmetry. This list that FLEX compiled reflect those, who bring more than mere mass to the bodybuilding stage.
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First of all, this isn't a role model list, per se. It's a list of most aesthetic physiques. Based on that (and that alone), Bob Paris belongs on this list, regardless of his homosexual lifestyle.
Second, where on Earth do you get this "swimmer" stuff. A guy who's six feet tall and 230 lbs ripped is FAR from a swimmer. Arnold Schwarzenegger, at his peak, was 240 lbs, at 6'2". I certainly don't consider him a "swimmer". I doubt you'll find many who do.
Bull,
Bob Paris was around 200 in his early years, and gradually beefed up during Lee Haney era, he never reached 230 during a contest.
And where did you find the guts to compare Arnold who competed 10 years earlier with this Bob.
Need I remind you that Frank Zane, who is much smaller than Paris, has three Mr. Olympia titles to his credit. So the "biggest" part of your "biggest with the best physique" statement doesn't quite work.
There's room in bodybuilding for all types of physiques. Part of the reason, bodybuilding has suffered as of late is because of this brazen insistence that its participants be either all "monsters" or all "aesthetic". That's part of the reason why steroid abuse has gone wild in bodybuilding. Some people think that a 6', 230-lb. ripped bodybuilder is a "swimmer".
Bodybuilding is about balance, size plus proportion; mass plus symmetry. This list that FLEX compiled reflect those, who bring more than mere mass to the bodybuilding stage.
Frank Zane was during his time the greatest. He wasn't the greatest in overall mass, or the heaviest, yet onstage he looked the biggest. Try to find a tape of a olympia during that time.
And can I finish with the statement that Bob Paris achieved jackshit during his career.
http://www.musclememory.com/
The only thing he achieved in his life was as a gay-"activist". There are so many who achieved more for the sport, and you can find them in al sizes you want, but in the end they have put a gay-man on number 1 ?
Come on, be serious. There's got to be more behind this choice.
And Frank Zane swimmer, yeah, but also BB;
(http://digilander.libero.it/mikementzer/Zane15.jpg)
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At one time this guy was awesome
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Bull,
Bob Paris was around 200 in his early years, and gradually beefed up during Lee Haney era, he never reached 230 during a contest.
And where did you find the guts to compare Arnold who competed 10 years earlier with this Bob. Frank Zane was during his time the greatest. He wasn't the greatest in overall mass, or the heaviest, yet onstage he looked the biggest. Try to find a tape of a olympia during that time.
And can I finish with the statement that Bob Paris achieved jackshit during his career.
http://www.musclememory.com/
The only thing he achieved in his life was as a gay-"activist". There are so many who achieved more for the sport, and you can find them in al sizes you want, but in the end they have put a gay-man on number 1 ?
Come on, be serious. There's got to be more behind this choice.
And Frank Zane swimmer, yeah, but also BB;
(http://digilander.libero.it/mikementzer/Zane15.jpg)
This post of yours makes absolutely NO SENSE. You have no problem with Frank Zane, a "swimmer" by your standards, being on this FLEX all-time list. Yet, you're beefing about Bob Paris, a larger bodybuilder, being on this same list, or at least, being #1?
Your assessment of Paris' accomplishments is equally bizzare. From the very link you provided, we find that Bob Paris won the NPC Nationals and the Mr. Universe. He qualified for the Olympia several times, placing in the top 10 on three occasions.
There are IFBB pros who would kill to boast a resume like that. You're blubbering more about Paris than a guy like Matt Mendenhall who, unlike Paris, did not win the Nationals (or the USA, or the North American) to earn his pro card. If anyone on that list deserves your "achieved jack----" award, it's Mendenhall, not Paris.
The comparison with Arnold was to make this point. If a guy 6', 230-lbs is a "swimmer", then so would be a 6'2, 240-lb. guy also be a "swimmer".
Lastly, this issue is STRICTLY about aesthetic bodybuilders physiques; so, I give Paris his due for what he's accomplished in building his physique. As for his homosexual lifestyle, that's another subject for another time. Truth be told, I was a bit surprised that he was #1. But, I'm certainly not shocked that his physique, aesthetically speaking, is ranked up there with the best of them.
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This "swimmer" stuff is getting out of control. ;D I hope people 30 years from now are not talking about how Ronnie and Jay were swimmers.
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Except for one instance: The 1995 Mr. Olympia. Cormier placed 6th; Wheeler placed 8th.
forgot about that one :o good call...
but you gotta cut Flex some slack, he was big ballin in his 500 doing 170 and crashed and broke his neck ;)
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forgot about that one :o good call...
but you gotta cut Flex some slack, he was big ballin in his 500 doing 170 and crashed and broke his neck ;)
Well, Wheeler had recovered from that accident, to a degree. But, he may have comeback too soon. He was a little lighter than he was in '93 and barely beat Aaron Baker at the IronMan and Florida Pro show. Some fans feel that Baker got stiffed and should have won at least one of those shows.
The problem arrived when, in somewhat of an upset, Mike Francois knocked off Flex to win the Arnold Classic. Wheeler was supposed to try and avenge that lost as the San Francisco Pro show a week later; but, he withdrew, due to illness.
The word is that Wheeler thought his lack of size cost him the Classic against Francois. So, he beefed up to competed with the big boys. But, he overdid it; didn't come into the Olympia in prime shape; and Francois ended up beating him again, anyway (along with the aforementioned Chris Cormier).
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Well, Wheeler had recovered from that accident, to a degree. But, he may have comeback too soon. He was a little lighter than he was in '93 and barely beat Aaron Baker at the IronMan and Florida Pro show. Some fans feel that Baker got stiffed and should have won at least one of those shows.
The problem arrived when, in somewhat of an upset, Mike Francois knocked off Flex to win the Arnold Classic. Wheeler was supposed to try and avenge that lost as the San Francisco Pro show a week later; but, he withdrew, due to illness.
The word is that Wheeler thought his lack of size cost him the Classic against Francois. So, he beefed up to competed with the big boys. But, he overdid it; didn't come into the Olympia in prime shape; and Francois ended up beating him again, anyway (along with the aforementioned Chris Cormier).
Great post. I was watching the 1995 Mr. Olympia the other day and I couldn't believe how much bigger flex looked than in 93! Especially the upper body. It almost looked as if he had started using synthol in 95
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Ahh, what did Zane weigh ?
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Which would you prefer ?????
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The list
1. Bob Paris
2. Steve Reeves
3. Frank Zane
4. Labrada
5. Wheeler
6. Charles Clairmonte
7. Milos
8. deMey
9. Samir
10. Makkawy
11. Shawn Ray
12. Cormier
13. Thierry Pastel
14. Mendenhall
15. Haney
16. Nubret
17. Padilla
18. Sergio
19. Sonny Schmidt
20. Melvin Anthony
I disagree. I think Labrada, Platz and Oliva should be at the top of the list. Oliva is a special case:the large man with long muscle bellies and perfect balance. By the criteria alone, he should have won the contest and be in first place.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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I disagree. I think Labrada, Platz and Oliva should be at the top of the list. Oliva is a special case:the large man with long muscle bellies and perfect balance. By the criteria alone, he should have won the contest and be in first place.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Sergio looked like a sack of poop. Cormier should top the list for simply being 250lbs!
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Sergio looked like a sack of poop. Cormier should top the list for simply being 250lbs!
Cormier had/has one of the worst physiques ever. He never truly achieved his potential. Like Paul Dillet. Cormier has the built of a swimmer and not a bodybuilder.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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a swimmer i never seen a swimmer weigh 250
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so your saying they should be blocky
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a swimmer i never seen a swimmer weigh 250
Figure of speech... ::)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Cormier had/has one of the worst physiques ever. He never truly achieved his potential. Like Paul Dillet. Cormier has the built of a swimmer and not a bodybuilder.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Ok, I had a lot of respect for your opinions for this post, but are you drunk??
Cormier at the '99 Olympia presented the greatest combination of mass, aesthetics, symmetry, and proportion ever see on a pro stage. That physique would have wiped the floor with ANY ironager, and if the judges weren't so gung-ho on awarding distended bellies, and pure mass alone, Cormier should have won that show.
(http://www.ronnie.cz/_img/Clanky/2069_3.jpg)
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Ok, I had a lot of respect for your opinions for this post, but are you drunk??
Cormier at the '99 Olympia presented the greatest combination of mass, aesthetics, symmetry, and proportion ever see on a pro stage. That physique would have wiped the floor with ANY ironager, and if the judges weren't so gung-ho on awarding distended bellies, and pure mass alone, Cormier should have won that show.
(http://www.ronnie.cz/_img/Clanky/2069_3.jpg)
If you had read the "I Am An Alcoholic" thread on the General Topics Board, you'd know that I'm almost invariably drunk. But you can be sure that I wasn't drunk when I wrote about Cormier. By the way, he's one of my favorite bodybuilders. But we have to admit that he never really matched up to his potential. It's obvious, that with his skeletal and muscular structure, he should have been much better. He could have competed with some 20 lbs more of muscle, while maintaining a superb balance and detail of definition. I love Cormier; too bad he never showed what he was truly capable of... :( :-[
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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This post of yours makes absolutely NO SENSE. You have no problem with Frank Zane, a "swimmer" by your standards, being on this FLEX all-time list. Yet, you're beefing about Bob Paris, a larger bodybuilder, being on this same list, or at least, being #1?
Your assessment of Paris' accomplishments is equally bizzare. From the very link you provided, we find that Bob Paris won the NPC Nationals and the Mr. Universe. He qualified for the Olympia several times, placing in the top 10 on three occasions.
There are IFBB pros who would kill to boast a resume like that. You're blubbering more about Paris than a guy like Matt Mendenhall who, unlike Paris, did not win the Nationals (or the USA, or the North American) to earn his pro card. If anyone on that list deserves your "achieved jack----" award, it's Mendenhall, not Paris.
The comparison with Arnold was to make this point. If a guy 6', 230-lbs is a "swimmer", then so would be a 6'2, 240-lb. guy also be a "swimmer".
Lastly, this issue is STRICTLY about aesthetic bodybuilders physiques; so, I give Paris his due for what he's accomplished in building his physique. As for his homosexual lifestyle, that's another subject for another time. Truth be told, I was a bit surprised that he was #1. But, I'm certainly not shocked that his physique, aesthetically speaking, is ranked up there with the best of them.
The funny thing with Frank Zane was the fact that he was actually a swimmer.
But furtheron, try to figure out what the standards where back then,
Frank Zane was the best period, there's no room for discussion. Buy a tape if you don't believe it.
Second, in those days, the olympia had a lightweightclass and a heavyweight,
Frank Zane won three times the overall.
In 1980 he became third because the IFBB joined everything. Shortly after Lee Haney came in the picture.
What I truly can't understand that you're trying to give BoB Paris credit he doesn't deserve,
during his era he achieved jackshit;
I can't understand why you claim that he was 230/240 BB, cause he was not. When he started out, he weighed around 200lbs and won the NPC, when he start becoming heavier it was game over.
I also don't understand why you bring up Mendenhall, does he stand number 1, and is he gay?
And before you start all over again about Frank Zane, and his "swimmersphysique"
it's the package that's presented, not weight or height,
Bob Paris, always looked soft, he just couldn't play the game,
frank zane during contest rockhard.
http://www.classicbodybuilders.com/classicbodybuilderbobparis.html
http://www.classicbodybuilders.com/frankzane.html
Olympia 1980,
(http://www.frankzane.com/fz019.jpg)
front, second of right,
spell d-e-t-a-i-l , and despite the lack of mass and weighing less than 200, he still looks impressive next to the other guys, but like I said, buy the tape, and reconsider your thought,
more;
http://www.frankzane.com/Frank_Zane-3-time_Mr-Olympia_Photo-archive001.htm
So stop bitching about Zane,
he was the man, you can't hold up your case with Bob Paris.
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The funny thing with Frank Zane was the fact that he was actually a swimmer.
But furtheron, try to figure out what the standards where back then,
Frank Zane was the best period, there's no room for discussion. Buy a tape if you don't believe it.
Second, in those days, the olympia had a lightweightclass and a heavyweight,
Frank Zane won three times the overall.
In 1980 he became third because the IFBB joined everything. Shortly after Lee Haney came in the picture.
What I truly can't understand that you're trying to give BoB Paris credit he doesn't deserve,
during his era he achieved jackshit;
I can't understand why you claim that he was 230/240 BB, cause he was not. When he started out, he weighed around 200lbs and won the NPC, when he start becoming heavier it was game over.
I also don't understand why you bring up Mendenhall, does he stand number 1, and is he gay?
And before you start all over again about Frank Zane, and his "swimmersphysique"
it's the package that's presented, not weight or height,
Bob Paris, always looked soft, he just couldn't play the game,
frank zane during contest rockhard.
http://www.classicbodybuilders.com/classicbodybuilderbobparis.html
http://www.classicbodybuilders.com/frankzane.html
Olympia 1980,
(http://www.frankzane.com/fz019.jpg)
front, second of right,
spell d-e-t-a-i-l , and despite the lack of mass and weighing less than 200, he still looks impressive next to the other guys, but like I said, buy the tape, and reconsider your thought,
more;
http://www.frankzane.com/Frank_Zane-3-time_Mr-Olympia_Photo-archive001.htm
So stop bitching about Zane,
he was the man, you can't hold up your case with Bob Paris.
First of all, I'm not complaining about Zane at all; so, you can kill that noise right now. Zane most definitely deserves his spot on this all-time aesthetics list. At no time, did I suggest that Zane was unworthy of his accomplishments, either on this list or as Mr. Olympia. You're barking up the wrong tree.
Your assessment as to why Zane lost is a tad dubious. The injury he suffered (and the mass he lost, subsequently, as a result) had more to do with his loss, than the mere combining the weight classes. Zane has stated in interviews that he never should have competed in the 1980 Olympia. He conceded that he let Arnold Schwarzenegger goad him into entering that show. Arnold wanted to make his comeback and felt that regaining the Olympia title would mean more, if he beat the defending champion to do it.
As for Bob Paris, I'm not giving him undeserved credit. Maybe you see winning the NPC Nationals, the Universe, and placing in the top 10 at the Olympia three times as achieving Jack----; but, I simply do not. Again, there are IFBB pros TODAY, who would love to have such credentials.
Paris' bodyweight? 230 lbs. is what was listed in FLEX; I've seen him listed at 225 in an issue of Muscle & Fitness from 1989. I've never stated he was 240; that was used to describe Arnold Schwarzenegger. Regardless of his bodyweight, Paris' bodybuilding resume' is still a good one, in my book.
Lastly, we are talking about AESTHETIC PHYSIQUES, flesh, muscle, and bone. What on Earth does Paris' homosexual lifestyle have to do with how aesthetic his physique is or what he's done onstage?
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I'll take Cormiers, (In shape) Perfect X frame any day. And If you have seen Chris In person. He's far from being short. Perfect hight to weight proportions. IMO. How you can say Zane Is aesthetic is beyond me.
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Besides His 99 form. He was bigger and more full, while still having great condition In 2001. His best year . IMO. Look up that contest and see. Chris was on !! How you can compare Zane or Reeves to Chris I don't know. As far as this " swimmers thing " everyone keeps referring to. Well there Is no way anyone would call Cormiers physique to be that of a swimmer. Today's bodybuilder might look upon Zanes and Reeves as one. All great physique's none the less. My point is, everyone's opinion of what is aesthetic is subjective. I think in the end what is aesthetic to almost everyone, is a physique that regardless of the amount of muscle, is nice to look at. ( It flows ). Not a physique where in anyway you say " that's ugly " !!!
Peace !
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And before I get bashed for saying I'm not crazy for Zanes physique. Well that's just my opinion. To me, modern day bodybuilding Is more about the X frame than say a Y frame.
IE.. ( Bigger legs ) . Two different eras. I just prefer the physiques of the late 80's and 90's.